The Banking & Payments Show: How Young People Bank, Spend, and Invest Their Money

Summary

Behind the Numbers: The Banking & Payments Show Episode: How Young People Bank, Spend, and Invest Their Money Release Date: April 8, 2025

In this insightful episode of EMARKETER’s Behind the Numbers, host Rob Rubin delves into the financial behaviors of Generation Z. Joined by EM analysts Grace Broadbent and Lauren Ashcraft, Rubin explores how young consumers navigate banking, spending, and investing in today’s dynamic economic landscape. Through engaging discussions and compelling data points, the trio paints a comprehensive picture of Gen Z’s financial priorities and challenges.

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1. Banking Behaviors

Key Insights:

• ATM Proximity Matters: Gen Z places significant importance on the accessibility of ATMs when selecting a bank.
• Mobile Banking Dominates: A majority of young consumers prefer digital banking solutions over traditional methods.
• Emerging Preferences for Alternative Banking Platforms: Non-traditional banks like Cash App are gaining traction among Gen Z.

Notable Data Points:

• 13 Factors Influencing Bank Choice: Grace Broadbent highlights that there are 13 factors Gen Z considers when choosing a bank, with the top priority being the proximity of ATMs (42.4%) [00:58].

  "The top priority when choosing a Bank with 42.4% of Gen Z's Gen Zers listing this as their top priority is the ATM proximity." — Grace Broadbent [00:58]

• 60% Use Mobile Banking: Rob Rubin introduces his number, stating that 60% of Gen Z utilizes mobile banking platforms [04:19].

  "That's the number to me that's so fascinating right now is ATMs especially with my number which was 60% use mobile banking." — Rob Rubin [04:19]

Discussion Highlights:

• Cash vs. Digital: Despite the digital-native nature of Gen Z, there is a notable trend towards "cash stuffing," a budgeting method that involves allocating cash into envelopes for different expenses. Grace attributes this to a backlash against an entirely digital financial environment [04:45].

  "It's called cash stuffing. And that's also like one of their budgeting tactics. So they really do care about being able to get their hands on cash." — Grace Broadbent [04:45]

• Rise of Non-Traditional Banks: Lauren Ashcraft points out that Cash App ranks as the second-highest bank in terms of consumer banking satisfaction among Gen Z, surpassed only by Bank of America, despite lacking physical branches or ATMs [05:46].

  "Cash app is Gen Z's second highest ranked bank in terms of consumer banking satisfaction scores." — Lauren Ashcraft [05:46]

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2. Spending Habits

Key Insights:

• High Credit Card Utilization: A significant portion of Gen Z credit card users are maxing out their limits.
• Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) Popularity: A majority of young consumers are utilizing BNPL services, impacting their overall financial health.
• Desire for Immediate Gratification: Gen Z prioritizes spending on luxury goods and experiences over long-term savings.

Notable Data Points:

• 1 in 6 Maxed Out Credit Cards: Lauren Ashcraft reveals that 1 in 6 Gen Z credit card users have maxed out their credit limits, a higher rate than any other generation [06:50].

  "1 in 6 gen Z credit card users have maxed out their credit cards, which means they've utilized more than 90% of their credit limits." — Lauren Ashcraft [06:50]

• 60% Engage with BNPL: Rob Rubin shares that 60% of Gen Z and Millennials are using Buy Now, Pay Later services [07:22].

  "More than 60% of Gen Zs and Millennials use Buy Now, Pay Later." — Rob Rubin [07:22]

Discussion Highlights:

• Impact of BNPL and Credit Card Debt: Lauren discusses the intertwined use of BNPL and credit cards, expressing concern over the long-term financial implications as BNPL debts may reduce the ability to pay off credit card debts [07:40].

  "Credit card debts are building and building and building." — Lauren Ashcraft [07:40]

• Spending Motivations: Grace introduces that 75% of Gen Zers believe they deserve their purchases, and 70% have a basic understanding of money, prioritizing luxury items like skincare products [08:52].

  "75% of Gen Zers believe that they deserve which I think is an interesting word to get most of what they want." — Grace Broadbent [08:52]

• Influence of Social Media and FOMO: The fear of missing out (FOMO) driven by social media platforms like TikTok significantly influences Gen Z’s spending decisions, leading to increased purchases of experiences and luxury goods [09:37].

  "FOMO from social media and a lot of it also is a lot of this generation was stuck at home during COVID years and it is the quote unquote revenge spending." — Rob Rubin [10:31]

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3. Investing Patterns

Key Insights:

• Saving Priorities vs. Actual Savings: While a large percentage of Gen Z prioritizes saving, many are not saving for long-term goals like retirement.
• Preference for Alternative Investments: Gen Z shows a strong inclination towards alternative investments such as cryptocurrency, real estate investment trusts (REITs), and private equity.
• Minimal Retirement Savings: A significant portion of young adults are not saving for retirement, highlighting a gap between financial aspirations and actions.

Notable Data Points:

• 79% Prioritize Saving: Rob Rubin cites a study where 79% of Gen Z consider saving as their top financial priority [12:08].

  "The standard study found that Gen Z's biggest financial priority, 79% said that it's saving." — Rob Rubin [12:08]

• 61% Not Saving for Retirement: Contrasting the high priority of saving, 61% of young adults are not saving for retirement [13:16].

  "According to a CNBC and Genlab study, 61% of young adults are not saving for retirement." — Rob Rubin [13:16]

• Crypto vs. Retirement Accounts: Lauren Ashcraft highlights that Gen Z investors are four times more likely to own crypto than a retirement account [16:42].

  "Gen Z investors are four times more likely to own crypto than a retirement account." — Lauren Ashcraft [16:42]

Discussion Highlights:

• Short-Term vs. Long-Term Savings: The conversation reveals a discrepancy between Gen Z’s desire to save and their actual savings behaviors, often favoring short-term goals over long-term financial security [12:34].

  "Maybe it's more so saving for these concerts and trips we were just talking about." — Grace Broadbent [13:32]

• Psychological Factors: Grace Broadbent discusses the psychological impact of witnessing older generations struggle with savings and retirement, influencing Gen Z to prioritize immediate experiences over long-term financial planning [14:35].

  "They've watched their parents save and try to save and work multiple jobs and their retirement and savings got absolutely obliterated multiple times over the last couple of decades." — Grace Broadbent [15:20]

• Alternative Investments Interest: Beyond crypto, Gen Z shows interest in REITs and private equity, indicating a willingness to explore diverse investment avenues despite limited traditional retirement savings [17:26].

  "Gen Zers are three times more interested in alternative investments than any other age group." — Grace Broadbent [17:28]

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4. Insights and Conclusions

Host's Reflections: Rob Rubin expresses concern over the depicted financial behaviors, emphasizing the potential future economic challenges stemming from high credit card debts and insufficient retirement savings. He introduces the concept of a "debt jubilee"—a hypothetical large-scale debt forgiveness—as a possible, albeit drastic, solution to mounting debts [18:16].

"A debt jubilee is a clearance of debt from public records across a wide sector or a nation... that might be an interesting topic to talk about." — Rob Rubin [18:28]

Analysts' Perspectives: Grace Broadbent connects Gen Z’s financial behaviors to broader economic trends, noting that current high interest rates and housing costs further exacerbate the financial strain on young consumers [13:52].

Lauren Ashcraft underscores the urgency of addressing these financial patterns, warning that ignoring the burgeoning debt could lead to severe economic repercussions [16:37].

Future Outlook: The episode concludes with a sense of anticipation for future discussions on related financial issues, such as the implications of a debt jubilee, highlighting the ongoing challenges and potential strategies to support Gen Z’s financial well-being [19:03].

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Behind the Numbers offers a comprehensive analysis of Generation Z’s financial landscape, revealing a complex interplay between traditional and modern financial behaviors. From valuing ATM accessibility and mobile banking to grappling with credit card debt and prioritizing alternative investments, Gen Z demonstrates both adaptability and vulnerability in their financial decisions. As the digital economy continues to evolve, understanding these trends is crucial for marketers, retailers, and financial institutions aiming to engage effectively with this influential demographic.

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Stay Informed: For more in-depth analyses and updates on digital media trends, subscribe to EMARKETER’s Behind the Numbers podcast, available Monday through Friday on all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

[Rob Rubin]

Foreign. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Banking and Payment Show, a Behind the Numbers podcast from eMarketer today is April 8, 2025. I'm Rob Rubin, head of business development at eMarketer and your host today. Today we're going to chat about how young people, not me, banks, spend and invest their money. Joining me are EM analysts Grace Broadbent and Lauren Ashcraft. Hey there, guys.

[Grace Broadbent]

Hi.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Hi, guys. I'm excited to be here.

[Grace Broadbent]

Me too.

[Rob Rubin]

I'm excited to have you both here. And in fact, I've had you both on, but never together.

[Grace Broadbent]

That's right. Happy to be here with you, Grace.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

I know.

[Rob Rubin]

Have you been on any podcasts together or. This is the first.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

This is our first one.

[Rob Rubin]

All right, well, I want to ask you guys an icebreaker just to sort of get us going. And I'm not trying to foreshadow a number or a type of number as we move forward, which people will understand, but do either of you own any crypto?

[Grace Broadbent]

No.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

I sold mine last year.

[Rob Rubin]

Oh, what did you own?

[Lauren Ashcraft]

I owned bitcoin. I bought it in 2020 during the peak and it went up last year, but more so I just wanted that money to buy something. So it was not enough to really make a dent either way. So I took the money out, made a big purchase, and now I'm no longer a crypto owner.

[Rob Rubin]

You're no longer a crypto owner? I just. I just think it's interesting generationally, like, who owns crypto? Because I wouldn't like. For me, I can't even think about it.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

No. You've never purchased anything. Thought about it.

[Rob Rubin]

Well, we'll get to this. In terms of investing, I don't believe you should invest in something you don't understand. And even though this is my space and I can sort of understand it, the volatility of it and the fact that it could be gamed sort of keeps me away.

[Grace Broadbent]

Also, it's. To get a whole bitcoin at this point is really expensive.

[Rob Rubin]

You get a house.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

I owned 00001, I'm pretty sure.

[Grace Broadbent]

Awesome.

[Rob Rubin]

So I didn't want to foreshad anything about this episode, so I want to jump in today because we're going to be doing something different and I'm super excited about it. Today's podcast is Story by Numbers meets for argument's sake. Typically in a story by number segment, I pick a number on a topic and then we discuss it. And then for argument's sake, we argue nicely about the topic. Today, each of us has come prepared with three numbers that reflect what we think represents how young consumers again not me, bank, spend and invest. So let's see how this goes. I'm going to choose Lauren first because we're going to go with banking. Lauren, what number do you think best reflects how young people bank?

[Grace Broadbent]

I went with the number 13 and here's why. There are 13 factors that us Gen Z banking consumers consider before choosing a new bank. With the top factor being ATMs near them because they do rely on cash more than other generations. And then the bank's reputation, the branches near them, which is interesting. They do care about being able to go to a physical branch. Fraud prevention, customer service, the fees, interest rates for accounts, banking, mobile app quality, discounts, incentives, awards.

[Rob Rubin]

So your 13 are just the 13 things that people care about when they choose a bank. Is it different than what other people care about? Because I could say that I care about ATM locations too.

[Grace Broadbent]

So these are ranked in order of how much Gen Zers care about them. So the top priority when choosing a Bank with 42, 0.4% of Gen Z's Gen Zers listing this as their top priority is the ATM proximity. And then it goes all the way down to breadth of products and services which is 2.8%.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

That's very interesting that Gen Z's top factor is ATMs.

[Rob Rubin]

That's really supposed to be the 13 number. It's. That's the number to me that's so fascinating right now is ATMs especially with my number which was 60% use mobile banking.

[Grace Broadbent]

Interesting. You know what I think because everything's so digital these days there's been sort of this backlash in going anti digital for certain habits and they save by putting wads of cash into envelopes. It's called cash stuffing. And that's also like one of their budgeting tactics. So they really do care about being able to get their hands on cash.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Cash stuffing. Wasn't that a trend on TikTok that an influencer started?

[Rob Rubin]

I absolutely never heard of this. Is it like stuffing cashing, a mattress? Like literally old fashioned?

[Grace Broadbent]

Yeah, except it's like envelopes that say like for food or going out. Yeah.

[Rob Rubin]

So when the burglars come they can find it super easy.

[Grace Broadbent]

Totally.

[Rob Rubin]

All right, what's your number Grace?

[Lauren Ashcraft]

So this ATM data point also does not get along with my number. Mine is that Cash app is. It's not really a. It's more of a data point. So I hope that's okay. Cash app is Gen Z's second highest ranked bank in terms of consumer banking satisfaction scores. The only bank that ranks higher than Cash App is Bank of America. And I think that's so interesting because Cash App is not a traditional bank by any means. It has banking features. It has a savings account, a checking account, but no ATMs, no physical locations. None of those things we were just talking about.

[Grace Broadbent]

Oh, interesting.

[Rob Rubin]

That is interesting. Cash App is.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Yes, it's owned by Block, but yeah, they've been pushing heavily into banking services in recent years.

[Rob Rubin]

I just can't reconcile the ATM locations. Like, honestly, that is the thing that stands out because, like, just because I have young adult children and they just don't really use cash unless they're doing something that they don't want anyone to know about, I think. So is it that we have a drug problem in the young community? Is this what we're talking about now?

[Grace Broadbent]

Like Grace was saying, like, it was. It was a viral TikTok trend. And I think Gen Zers kind of go there for financial advice.

[Rob Rubin]

Well, we're going to take all this and move on to spending, because now we're talking about, like, they have mattresses and pillowcases and envelopes in their cork drawer that say for food. And I want to move on to spending. So, Grace, it's your turn. What's your number and why? In terms of how young people spend?

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Yes. Okay. My number is 1 in 6 gen Z credit card users have maxed out their credit cards, which means they've utilized more than 90% of their credit limits, which is, well, higher than any other generation. Yeah, And I will preface that part of this is they tend to have lower credit limits. So it's obviously easier to max out a credit limit when it's $3,000 versus 10,000. But that also still doesn't bode well for their overall consumer financial health.

[Rob Rubin]

I picked a different number, but on the same theme that more than 60% of Gen Zs and Millennials use. Buy now, pay later.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Yes. And I think it's really interesting to look at their credit card usage in tandem with their BNPL usage. And it really gives a sometimes scary look into their finances.

[Rob Rubin]

It does, because. And I've been through this before on this show about how the BNPL providers don't report to the same credit bureaus. So I still say there's going to be a reckoning one day when the full credit portfolios become visible.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Yeah. And I think so. BNPL delinquencies is something I've followed closely of, like, how many people are not paying off their BNPL Debts and those are actually much lower than credit cards. People are paying off their BNPL debts but the issue that it creates is that they now have less money to pay off their credit card debt. Card debt and credit card debts are building and building and building.

[Rob Rubin]

But now we're going to. Do you think we're going to start to see like because the regulators are all missing that maybe we're going to start to see lots of like balance transfer offers to try to get people to move balances from one place to the next and sort of crazy things to try to address the credit card balance issue, give people more credit.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

I think definitely, yeah. Especially with interest rates at record highs right now. I think there's a lot of appeal for that and it's only making the debt problem so much worse.

[Rob Rubin]

Lauren, you've been quiet here. I want to hear your number.

[Grace Broadbent]

Okay, so this I. It actually goes hand in hand with what Grace was saying. I have that 75 of Gen Zers believe that they deserve which I think is an interesting word to get most of what they want. And there's some other stats that go with that. 70% of Gen Alphans believe they have a basic understanding of money and they prioritize their ability to buy luxury goods including skincare products that 30% of them are too young to need. So just like some interesting spending habits that probably go hand in hand with the credit card debt. Yeah, I was saying and TikTok.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

TikTok and yeah. Growing credit card balances. But yeah, I think especially the TikTok is it's kind of the fear of missing out aspect of they really want to buy what they see others buying. And we've also in terms of credit card spend, one of the top spending categories is always travel and experiences for this generation. I mean it kind of goes hand in hand to that that they want these crazy experiences, they want to travel, they're not as much focused on saving. They want to spend and experience life.

[Rob Rubin]

Right now we are headed for a big wall, I'm telling you and we're moving quickly. There's going to be a reckoning if all these credit card debts and the perspective, this sort of an entitled perspective from where I sit of young people saying that they deserve all these things and I don't think that it's entitlement. I think it's the messaging that they're getting.

[Grace Broadbent]

Yeah, that definitely that FOMO from social.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Media and a lot of it also is a lot of this generation was stuck at home during COVID years and it is the quote unquote revenge spending. And that was supposed to only last. Revenge spending was like if you broke.

[Rob Rubin]

Up with it with your partner, that was the revenge spend.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Well, that could be another form of it as well. But revenge spending is what they were calling the post lockdown era where people were spending crazy on travel and concerts and experiences because we couldn't do that for a couple of years.

[Rob Rubin]

Is that revenge or just pent up demand?

[Lauren Ashcraft]

It's pent up demand, absolutely.

[Rob Rubin]

But revenge is like when you break up with someone but you still have. They still get your credit card bill.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Yeah. And you're making an Amazon purchase on your ex's credit card or you buy.

[Rob Rubin]

A lot of shoes.

[Grace Broadbent]

You keep that Netflix login.

[Rob Rubin]

Netflix will work that out. All right, so it's my turn in the barrel. We're going to transition to investing. And I just want to say before we start that we haven't painted the best picture in my opinion. I know we've painted a picture of entitled people so far. Right. They need cash, they want to buy things that they can't afford. And now we're going to get to investing. And my number is that. And this is sort of funny, I think, given as what we've been talking about is that a study found, the standard study found that Gen Z's biggest financial priority, 79% said that it's saving.

[Grace Broadbent]

Yes.

[Rob Rubin]

So here it might relate to. They think they're saving money by putting it in envelopes and making it easily accessible for themselves. That usually is not the best approach, but at least it's something. It's like you could say maybe they're trying, but I find it hard to believe that they're trying to save money given that they've been racking up these credit card debts and things like that.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

I think it's a difference of what they want to do versus what they're actually doing. Yes, of course they want to save, but I mean the numbers are showing that they aren't right now. And maybe they a don't want to necessarily save. They want to like spend on these experiences, things like we were talking about. But also potentially they just might not have the financial ability right now to save. A especially with inflation and the job market and things like that.

[Rob Rubin]

Maybe also there's like a cause. One of the interesting things that I didn't read is that a lot of the savings goals are short term. Right. And so like things that they want to acquire, things that they feel they need versus saving for retirement.

[Grace Broadbent]

Yeah.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Maybe it's more so saving for a different number.

[Rob Rubin]

According to a CNBC and Genlab study, 61% of young adults are not saving for retirement. So if 79% say savings a priority, but aren't saving for retirement, then you.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Know, maybe they're saving for these concerts and trips we were just talking about.

[Grace Broadbent]

I don't know.

[Rob Rubin]

I sort of feel like the thing that we're not addressing here is housing.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Yeah.

[Rob Rubin]

And the enormous cost of housing for young people. And if they look out into the future, the hard part, like acquiring a house seems unaffordable. Probably.

[Grace Broadbent]

Yeah.

[Rob Rubin]

So maybe like when you use the word revenge, it's really. Maybe it's some of the spending is around reprioritizing from past generations in past generations. And I'll use myself as an example, we were always told that we should be saving for our future, saving for our retirement, saving for our children's education. So we always had this sort of long term objective that was around what was messaged around savings. But now everything is so expensive and unaffordable and it's gone. You know, housing in particular, that maybe savings priorities are more short term because the idea of homeownership seems further afield for perhaps. What do you think?

[Grace Broadbent]

Actually, I write quite often about the psychology of what's going on with Gen Z spending and saving. And recently I wrote an article about how a lot of this behavior is informed by. They've watched their parents save and try to save and work multiple jobs and their retirement and savings got absolutely obliterated multiple times over the last couple of decades. And it's happening again right now that if you're a baby boomer that was getting ready for retirement, your portfolio is probably way down right now, which is extremely concerning. So there, maybe it's kind of, it just informed a lifestyle.

[Rob Rubin]

I don't know that portfolios are down as much as people at an age that's close to retirement. You know, people at an age close to retirement are coming to the realization that they're going to need a lot more money than they actually have. Right. And so it's not that they weren't trying to save or they didn't put, you know, an amount in their 401ks as they've moved along or whatever. But, you know, the cost of things today, Social Security is not enough. You know, the idea that you would need 25 times your earnings as savings in order to retire feels really out of reach probably. And I guess if the message is, because this is about young people, is they see that. So maybe they're well, my generation was prioritizing retirement and maybe we failed, but maybe they see the failure and say, what's the point? And so they're savings for like a nice car or something else.

[Grace Broadbent]

I really think that that's a lot of it is that they've just watched their parents try so hard and struggle to put so much away and they want to just experience. Maybe also because of what you said, Grace, that in such formative years they were just kind of sitting in front of a computer at home, locked in.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

So yeah, it's just concerning because ignoring the issue isn't going to make it go away.

[Grace Broadbent]

Exactly.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Yeah. And my. I will say my data point has to do with retirement. Um, but it's a little bit of a twist. Gen Z investors are four times more likely to own crypto than a retirement account.

[Grace Broadbent]

That's interesting.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Which goes back to crypto that we were talking about before. And also just speaks to the large. It more so speaks to a large lack of savings for retirement right now. And people are, you know, they're willing to almost invest in these, quote, riskier assets like bitcoin and crypto and see if they can make some quick money, you know, even on these, like, meme assets and things like that.

[Grace Broadbent]

Actually, my what I was going to bring up overlaps with yours again, Grace.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Yeah, let's hear it.

[Grace Broadbent]

So even though it's still only 17% of their portfolio, Gen Zers are three times more interested in alternative investments than any other age group. And the alternative investments that they're most interested in are crypto, which you mentioned real estate, which is so expensive right now, but there's also real estate investment trusts and private equity is something that they're interested in. So I recently wrote about that as something that banks can make sure that they offer young investors as opposed to just stocks.

[Rob Rubin]

This episode's been fascinating. I. I wouldn't say it's been fun. Like it.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

No, it's not been.

[Rob Rubin]

No, it's been. It's not been funny. Yeah, it's been.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

No, I know. It's like all my laughter is pure nervous laughter because.

[Rob Rubin]

Yeah, it's. There's like a nervousness to it. Right. Like. Like I feel like we're headed to a place and I think that I'm going to have to have an episode on something. Have you ever heard of a debt jubilee? The term.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

No. What is that?

[Rob Rubin]

A debt jubilee is a clearance of debt from public records across a wide sector or a nation. Such a jubilee was proposed as a solution to debt incurred or anticipated during the COVID 19 recession. So this is like the government says, everybody's debt is so big that we're just. It's zero now. That's the Jubilee part.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Do you think that can actually happen?

[Rob Rubin]

I mean, that's like, bottoming out, right? Like, you just told everybody to. No, I don't know that that's going to happen, but that's, like, a thing. There's been books written about debt jubilees. I think it's in the Bible.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Oh, my gosh.

[Rob Rubin]

It's been around. But that might be an interesting topic to talk about. Or what are the implications of a debt jubilee? And are we headed towards one? I want to thank you guys for this episode, which was not a normal episode. It wasn't fun, but it was fascinating. We each came up with these numbers. I want to do more of these kind because I've learned so much. And we had this whole conversation about. We came to a place about why a young consumer is going to think differently than someone that's older. And it's about their outlook. And I think that was pretty interesting. Thank you guys for today.

[Grace Broadbent]

Thank you. We'll try to be more uplifting.

[Rob Rubin]

Yeah, we're going to be. It's going to be funny. We're going to have many laughs in the next one.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

I don't know if Deck Jubilee is the laughing one, but we'll have to find it.

[Rob Rubin]

We're gonna make it funny.

[Grace Broadbent]

I know. Whenever you said Jubilee, I was like, that sounds fun.

[Rob Rubin]

Sounds amazing, right? It's such a fun name. I want to thank everyone for listening to the Banking and Payment show, and I also want to thank our editor, Victoria. Our next episode is on May 13, so be sure to check it out. Maybe it's going to be on debt Jubilees. See you then. Take care.

[Grace Broadbent]

Bye.

[Lauren Ashcraft]

Hi, guys. Thanks.