Touch Grass Marketing: How Digital Brands Go IRL | Behind the Numbers

Summary

Podcast Summary

Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast
Episode: Touch Grass Marketing: How Digital Brands Go IRL
Date: June 5, 2026
Host: Marcus (EMARKETER)
Guests:

• Paola Flores Marquez (Demographics Analyst)
• Suzy David Kanyon (VP of Content, Host of Reimagining Retail)
• Gardo Savilia (Senior AI & Technology Analyst)

---

Overview:

This episode unpacks the trend of “touch grass marketing” — how digital-first brands are investing in real-world experiences, responding to younger generations’ desire to disconnect from screens and reconnect in person. The analysts dig into screen fatigue, the paradox of tech-enabled unplugging, evolving consumer habits, and creative brand activations that bridge the digital and physical worlds.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Touch Grass” Movement and Screen Fatigue

• Definition: “Touching grass” refers to younger people (Gen Z and Gen Alpha) seeking real-world experiences and digital detox, as a response to digital burnout.
• Stat: “Phone free events jumped 567% globally between 2024 and 2025.” (Gardo, 04:47)
• Behavioral Data:
  • Over half of Gen Z tried to quit social media in 2025, ranking it above fast food, sugar, and alcohol as a habit to kick (Paola, 06:04).
  • 81% of Gen Z adults and 78% of millennials wish they could disconnect from their devices more easily (Susie, 06:36).

Notable Quote:

“I really, really think there is a movement...around unplugging and digital detox. This idea of health and wellness, mental health, wellness, has helped that behavior be front and center.” – Suzy, (06:36)

2. The Tech-Enabled Digital Detox Paradox

• Challenge: While the desire to disconnect is strong, digital dependency persists due to daily needs and social life being centered online.
• Anecdotes:
  • Even minimal smartphones and scheduling apps are still “solutions” from within tech (Gardo, 07:20).
  • Limiting apps or devices often just increases the craving or shifts the dependency (Suzy, 08:07).
• Generational Nuance:
  • Teens see their social media usage as “just right,” but as Gen Z ages, awareness of adverse effects grows (Paola, 10:09).
  • Only 17% of Gen Z have never tried to limit their social media use (Marcus, 08:51).

Notable Quote:

"There's really no such thing as logging off anymore. It's more around, like, how do you find different activities to supplement your technological sort of dependency?" – Suzy, (10:41)

3. Is This a Temporary Backlash or a Cultural Shift?

• Consensus: It’s a “rebalancing” of online vs. offline life, not a full retreat from tech.
• Societal Shifts:
  • Public health studies and court cases (e.g., against Meta) reinforce negative impacts of all-day scrolling (Paola, 14:02).
  • Apps themselves now promote responsible usage (“get off your phone” messages, limits for kids, etc.) (Susie, 16:03; Gardo, 16:28).
• Brand Response:
  • Example: Bumble dropped its “swipe” feature, pivoting from endless scrolling to more substantial matchmaking to address Gen Z’s dating app fatigue (Marcus, 15:30).

Notable Quote:

“I think it’s a rebalancing...whether it extends beyond generations or demographics remains to be seen, but there are benefits to it for sure.” – Gardo, (13:23)

4. Brand Innovation: Real-World Activations & Community

• Hybrid Inspiration: Brands use digital to inspire offline action, promoting real-world rituals as alternatives to scrolling.
• Marketing Examples:
  • Levi’s Tailoring Studios: Letting consumers DIY/customize their jeans — hands-on learning and community feel (Paola, 20:04).
  • Lululemon, Nike, Ulta: In-store classes & events, turning stores into experiential community spaces (Suzy, 17:40; 20:32).
  • Nest: Scent “walking paths” in NYC as a tactile alternative to digital ads (Suzy, 21:04).
  • L.L. Bean’s “Off the Grid” Campaign: Customizable analog gear and event series that encourage unplugged outdoor activity, coupled to Mental Health Month (Suzy, 21:25).

Notable Quote:

“The physical experience for something that you would not be expecting and was much better than an ad.” – Suzy on Nest’s scent walk (21:04)

• Brand Motive:
  • Insight from Heineken USA CMO: The aim is not to villainize tech, but to use it to create moments that actually bring people together (Marcus, 17:51).
  • Warning: If brand messages seem inauthentic (“digital detox” as greenwashing), they may backfire (Marcus and Paola, 17:51).

5. Community and Authenticity Matter

• Need for Safe, Uplifting Offline Spaces:

  • People crave gathering, even if initial discomfort or awkwardness is high (Paola, 23:23).
  • Social rituals, even simple acts like a shared meal or “cookbook club,” foster belonging and wellness (Paola, 26:59).
  • Brands can facilitate, but not control, genuine connection—consumers themselves need to take the step into real life.

• Authenticity:

  • “Getting together in real life with real people. What’s more authentic than that?” (Gardo, 27:52)

• Consumer Insight:

  • Marketers must avoid assumptions about generational behavior—offline shopping and IRL experiences remain vital across ages (Suzy, 28:09; Paola, 28:30).

6. Memorable Case: KitKat’s “Break Mode”

• Description:
  • KitKat launched a Faraday cage (“Break Mode”) that blocks device signals, turning snack breaks into true digital blackouts in line with their brand slogan “Have a break” (Marcus & Gardo, 28:43-29:23).
• Memorable Quote:

  “They've actually given you the tool to just hide your device and go off grid. So as to how it is used or how successful it is, I don't know, but it really ties into their brand.” – Gardo, (28:59)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Phone-Free Events & Data Trends – 04:15–07:20
• Addiction, Digital Detox, and Tech Dependence – 07:20–10:09
• Can We Actually “Log Off”? – 10:38–12:19
• Nostalgia & Generational Perspective – 12:19–13:15
• Is This a Lasting Cultural Shift? – 13:15–14:57
• Social Platforms Encouraging Less Use – 15:30–16:59
• Brands Creating Real-World Experiences – 17:40–22:45
• Community, Table-Gathering, and Authenticity – 24:10–28:09
• KitKat “Break Mode” Innovation – 28:43–29:23

---

Notable Quotes & Attribution

• “Phone free events jumped 567% globally between 2024 and 2025.” – Gardo Savilia, 04:47
• “More than half of gen zers reported trying to quit social media in 2025...They ranked it above fast food, above sugar, above alcohol.” – Paola Flores Marquez, 06:04
• “There’s really no such thing as logging off anymore.” – Suzy David Kanyon, 10:41
• “The faster that [brands] jump on acknowledging that and sort of encouraging more responsible usage, the faster that they either retain or regain consumer trust.” – Paola Flores Marquez, 16:03
• “If Pinterest is able to inspire people to get off their phones ... that turns into a habit or a ritual ... they’ll have a better chance.” – Suzy David Kanyon, 16:59
• “It really ties into their brand. So I think that’s really smart.” – Gardo Savilia on KitKat's Break Mode, 28:59

---

Overall Takeaways

• The real world is back in fashion: a new generational push, amplified by health and wellness trends, is sparking marketers to shift from digital metrics toward authentic, memorable offline experiences.
• Brands must authentically facilitate, not force, digital breaks, developing experiences that are true to their heritage and genuinely benefit their audiences.
• Technology will remain embedded, but the conversation is about balance—not erasure—and about forging community and meaning, both on and offline.

---

Transcript

[A]

When a consumer reaches checkout, they're no longer browsing, they're buying. It's a moment of peak intent, attention and engagement. That's where Rokt comes in. Rokt helps brands reach customers at the moment that matters most, delivering relevant offers and content that feel like a natural part of the transaction experience, not an interruption. Learn [e-mail]. Hey gang. It's Friday, June 5th.

[B]

Power.

[A]

Susie Garger and listeners, welcome to behind the Numbers and E Marketer podcast. I'm Marcus and joining me for today's conversation, we have three folks all in our New York studio, demographics analyst Paola Flores Marquez. Hello.

[C]

Hello, everyone.

[A]

Welcome to the show. We're also joined by VP of content and host of our reimagining retail podcast, Suzy David Canyon.

[C]

Hi.

[D]

Sorry as my. My things are about to fall off. Sorry, it's like a lot going on over here in the new studio.

[A]

You inviting you is a bad idea. We're also joined by senior AI and technology analyst Gardo Savilia.

[B]

Hey, great to be with everybody live.

[C]

Yay.

[A]

A much more normal greeting, Susie.

[D]

Sorry about that.

[A]

Today's fact, What will be the world's next tallest building? So the tallest building in the world

[D]

is the CN Tower.

[C]

In the UAE, right?

[A]

100 years ago, yes. Gaja. It's the Burj Khalifa.

[D]

Guys, how could I not talk about Canada? I knew it was. Obviously, I knew it was not the same tower.

[A]

Of course you did.

[D]

There are buildings in Manhattan probably taller.

[A]

The Bash Khalifa in dubai, built in 2010, stands about 2,700ft tall. It translates to Khalifa tower in English. So it consists of two Arabic words, burj, meaning tower or standing structure, and Khalifa, honoring Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nayan, the former president of the UAE and ruler of Abu Dhabi. The Burj Khalifa is 20% taller than the second place, Merdeka 118 building in Kuala Lumpur or Kuala Lumpur that was built in 2023. For those New York folks. For context, New York's One World Trade Building is America's tallest structure, but 50% smaller than the Berge. And guys, that was completed in 2014. Can you believe that building was finished 12 years ago?

[D]

No, like as in because it's so much smaller or because I feel like it just.

[A]

I feel like it happened. It's only been there a couple of years.

[C]

Yeah, no. Time is passing too quickly for my taste. I don't wanna. I don'.

[D]

Wait, did it finish in 1214, 2014, or it opened. Opened.

[A]

Oh, in 2014. Yeah. Shocking.

[D]

That is Shocking.

[A]

Anyway, to my question towards building soon to be. Gabriel Cohen of Visual Capitalist explained the Jeddah Tower in Saudi Arabia, when completed, will be the new tallest building in the world. 500ft taller than the Burj, and the world's first building to surpass one kilometer. Construction started in 2013. It's planning to open as early as 2028. So construction started when Obama was starting his second term.

[D]

Wow. Yeah, that takes forever.

[C]

Can you imagine how dwarfed you must feel standing next to that? Just like.

[A]

Yes, but just spec.

[D]

Well, it's probably also really wide.

[C]

Oh really?

[D]

Yeah, I haven't. It's probably really, really wide. It's probably like multiple blocks wide.

[A]

I don't know. Multiple blocks wide. I think it's that wide.

[D]

I don't know how they can support the weight of such a tall.

[A]

They do look like they're gonna. Yeah, they just look. Even the birch looks like it's gonna fall over at some point. On that cheery note, today's real topic, How brands are investing in real world experiences.

[D]

Don't stand in front of a tall building.

[A]

That's the takeaway. Gajo, you recently wrote that Gen Alpha and Gen Z are trading feeds for real life and brands are taking note. And in there you write about this concept of touching grass, going out and touching grass, what younger people say for leaving their homes. Um, so Gaja, I'll start with you. What data point to you or data points, if you've got a couple best captures, this shift toward, towards younger people going out and touching grass.

[B]

Yeah, I think the single best stat that, you know, phone free events jumped 567% globally between 2024 and 2025. So in one year, it's just an exponential amount of sort of engagement and desire to sort of be out there and be, you know, connecting with peers and experiences.

[A]

So is that people going out and saying I want to have a phone for experience or people showing up to events and their phone being confiscated for the experience? Either way you get the same experience.

[B]

Do get the same experience if it's by choice or.

[A]

Yeah. And maybe that trickles into, you know, maybe that eventually becomes, oh, I liked this, I'll do this more similar to I had phone bans, classroom phone bans forcing maybe a generational shift. So over 30 US states now ban phones during classroom introduction. Others have classroom limits. So I wonder if that even though kids don't have a choice, eventually it leads them to say, this is quite nice, I'll do this more or they're

[D]

on it Even more when they have their phone. Because they didn't.

[A]

I will say that. Thanks, Susie.

[C]

Just throwing that out there. I mean, okay, I have a data point that says that more than half. And we can throw the chart up for this. So more than half of gen zers reported trying to quit social media in 2025 and they didn't really succeed. This is according to Check my insurance. And they were the only demographic group to rank it as their leading habit that they're trying to quit. They ranked it above fast food, they ranked it above sugar, they ranked it about alcohol. So I do think that there is like cultural sentiment that's burgeoning within that generation trying to step away from it.

[D]

Yeah, well, and I think. Oh no, go ahead, tell me, tell me. I was just going to say I really, really think there is a movement and has been for a while now around unplugging and digital detox. I think this idea of health and wellness, mental health, wellness, sort of has helped that behavior be front and center. But I just don't think think that people are able to disconnect as easily and as intentionally as they once wanted to. Which is to your question, like, did they choose to be at a phone free event or did it happen to end up being phone free? So like there is this tension. And as you can see from the Harris poll data in the chart, 81% of Gen Z adults and 78% of millennials wish that they could disconnect from their devices more easily.

[B]

Yeah, I think the desire is there, but because these are such deeply entrenched habits, they sort of need help. And some device and OS makers have been going the minimal route. There's beyond os, which is a minimalist operating system that just gives you your calendar, your music, phone and messaging. Although everything is there, it sort of hides things away. Some people have used that and then they've also scheduled, I guess, their social interactions to specific times in the day. So I mean, I think just the surge of all these different options shows that there is a need for it.

[D]

A need or people realize that they need a better relationship with technology. And some of them, it's like an addiction in some ways. Right. So some of them need more help than others.

[C]

It's an addiction. But it's also, I think it's inescapable because that's the way in which we function with the rest of the world now. Right. Like when you look at how that's

[D]

how they grew up.

[C]

Yeah, it's how they grew up. It's entertainment it's discovery, like so much of it is converging on a lot of these platforms that even when you want to step away, you don't really have an option if you still want to kind of stay up to date on things. So they don't. It's so much harder because it's not just. It's not the TV where I can just turn it off and walk away. It's something that's in my pocket at all times and I need it in order to contact my friends, in order to gather, in order to do research on a product I want to buy.

[D]

It's like work. It's like everything.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

All in one.

[A]

It's stepping away. Yeah, it's stepping away, but it's where, where do people step away to? I think that's what they're struggling with. I was speaking to a friend of mine who is Gen Z and he was saying that, you know, he doesn't want to have to meet people online. But then if you don't meet people online, where, where else are you going? And so I think people are struggling with that. All my friends are online, so if I. Okay, if I'm not, then it's not like, oh, okay, I'll go find all these other people living in the, in the, in the real world. Add two data points which I think highlight this one. Nearly half of Gen Z is actively trying to reduce screen time. 32% of older people, that's YouGov cited by Axios. And then the second one here, this came from our senior social media analyst Mina Smiley in her report. And she was saying, for all the talk about Gen Z's obsession with social media, the generation is acutely aware of the grip social media has in their lives. And the majority, nearly 60%, saying it has had a negative impact, impact on their generation. According to the Harris poll, you can see from this chart on the screen, the majority, she says, have tried to limit their usage in some way. Just 17% of Gen Z are saying they've never taken any steps to limit usage. About 1 in 7 people saying, I've never done anything to the rest, 6 and 7 saying, I've tried at least something unfollowing, muting accounts, deleting social media apps, disabling things, et cetera, et cetera.

[C]

Right. This is, it's such a fascinating contrast. I mean, I do think we need to keep in mind that like the majority of Gen zers are adults, right? So 3 and 4 Gen Zers are adults, so they're not children. But when you look at the Pew research on teens, the majority of teens feel that they're on social media just the right amount. Like, they disagree with the idea that they're on that too much. And so I do think there's a shift that occurs as they get older and they realize how much control it has over their lives. But when they're teenagers, they're just kind of excited to be on it because it's new.

[A]

What does logging off actually look like?

[D]

This is my favorite question that you had for us because I actually don't think there's logging off. Right. I think between our watches, the OURA rings, all these different wearable technologies that don't let you log off. And the phones try to do these, like, you know, limits, especially for younger kids. Right. Like, you can do limits. And then you hear like, my niece and nephew will be like, can you add more minutes to my phone? So it's like, there's really no such thing as logging off anymore. It's more around, like, how do you find different activities to supplement your technological sort of dependency? Yes.

[C]

I do think it's very ironic that one of the solutions is to throw more technology at it, like the brick or the dumb phone, like just to turn and resolve this issue with like a placebo.

[B]

It's something you can hold and touch but doesn't give you the same.

[D]

It's almost like logging off means being a little bit more analog, but not completely getting rid of social and email. And like you were saying before, the phone is the gateway to so many things in addition to being on the social media platform.

[C]

I do think that. I think gen Zers are. Well, again, gen zers are majority adults. And so I think now they have the means to seek out and invest more in like physical hobbies now. So we're talking like pottery and in person events and like kind of in a way that they didn't have before. So I do think that that is kind of what logging off looks like. But again, as Marcus mentioned earlier, how do you find these things online? Like, how do you get inspired by these things online? Yeah. So I think you're right. There really is no completely disconnect from it.

[A]

Yeah. I was also wondering. I thought this is really interesting quote as well from Sarah Pollack. She works at Pinterest. She was saying her team wasn't sure if going phone free would resonate with young people the same way that it has for people who grew up in a more analog world, saying, we wondering if you have only grown up with Tech by your side, Would you have the same reaction? Would you have nostalgia for something you may not have actually lived yourself?

[C]

Yeah, I think kids always are idealizing the past. And right now we're in a Y2K revival. And Y2K means not looking at your phones, it means being in the clubs. It means like, you know, emo revival, like being at concerts. And like, I think they, they weren't there, so I mean, some of them were there, but they were very young. But I do think that they're romanticizing a time where everything is working better and they have a better, they're in a better. They have more optimism. Right.

[A]

So is this trend a temporary backlash or do we think it's the beginning of a long term cultural shift away from digital, away from screens?

[B]

I think it's a rebalancing. It's going to be a norm. Whether it extends beyond generations or demographics remains to be seen, but there are benefits to it for sure. And I think people enjoying that firsthand, say like in a concert where they can fully experience, you know, not from behind a phone, but in real life, as more of those things kind of, you know, add value to their experiences, it could continue, I think, for sure.

[C]

I think it's definitely emphasized by like the court win against Meta as well, where you kind of have like evidence now that this is really bad for us. And I do think it's kind of of another facet of social media becoming entertainment. Right. Like more and more it is what we turn on in order to like kind of disconnect from the day. And as I said earlier, like, as we realize that we can't spend all day watching tv, I think we're realizing we cannot spend all day just scrolling on our phone.

[D]

Yeah, for me too, it was about rebalancing because I think everybody is just so acutely aware of this constantly being on world and that that's not good for them for many reasons. And so like they're trying to figure out. So it's like digital fatigue. Pl. Oh no, this is not good for me. And health and wellness is such a big movement right now and it has been for a long time. It's just moving into other parts of our world, which includes entertainment, digital behaviors. So I just think it's like you. It's a rebalancing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Picking up on what you said, Paula, about the all day scrolling component, it does seem as though not only if people caught on to the fact that that maybe not be might not be great for them, but companies as well and trying to pivot away from that notion that come to the app, come to your device, use our service, but use it for as long as possible. It was dating app Bumble. I was reading they're ditching their swipe feature, which is basically scrolling but sideways saying to they're trying to pivot towards AI driven matchmaking.

[D]

Right.

[A]

So Natalie, Natalie Dayer of Axios explained that the right time, it's the right time for a product overhaul as Bumble deals with struggling business due to Gen Z dating app fatigue. So I wonder if you can see other examples of companies saying, yeah, like that scrolling thing isn't working for us. I mean, there was actually a marketing Brew article from Katie Hicks reading why would a social media platform tell you to get off your phone? And Sarah Pollack, who I mentioned earlier, Pinterest VP and global head of consumer marketing, she was saying she's confident that the platform can grow even as it is, even as it encourages people to stop scrolling.

[C]

I think the faster that they jump on acknowledging that and sort of encouraging more responsible usage, the faster that they either retain or regain consumer trust. Because right now, now everyone's feeling like it's kind of predatory. Yeah. And so if they lean into that and I don't know, like incorporate a setting to put like self, like limit your time on there, I think it would have a huge benefit.

[B]

They're doing that to avoid the liability, especially since there's clear connections to mental health. Right. I think even YouTube shorts does that for younger users. It's, you know, parents can kind of limit the time or the amount of engagement. So we're seeing, you know, them lean on that to say, well, you know, we have the tools. It's up to you whether you use them or not. But they're there.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

For me, the mindless scrolling is also like a ritual. So I think as like, for example, if Pinterest is able to help people, inspire people to get off their phones and go do real things in real life and that turns into a habit or, or a ritual for them or a sense of community, I think they'll have a better chance. It is kind of funny that it's tech companies that are trying to figure out how to get you off your phone, but it's also real company. Not the tech companies aren't real companies, but companies with tangible products that are also trying to figure out how to do this sense of community and coffee shop integrations or I mean, Lululemon has been doing it for a long time. This idea of you can go do yoga in their classes or I've done those.

[C]

They're fun, right?

[D]

Or like treasure hunt behaviors. Like everybody, every angle is trying to figure out how do we replace the mindless scrolling with tangible ritual type things to do.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And technology, it doesn't. We don't have to use it as much as we use it. And we could use it like a lot of the time you'll find, you know, groups to join online and then you'll go and you'll be in those groups in the real world. And in that marketing Brew piece as he was writing Google and meta platforms increasingly focus on short form video consumption. Pinterest is looking to be seen as a place for helping people find inspiration online so that they can go and live offline. And Ali Payne, CMO of Heineken usa saying it's not about being like all tech is bad, but what we want to do is use tech in a way that actually does bring people together. Will those messages resonate though, I wonder? Will going offline, the going offline message catch on for brands? And because Ms. Pollock from Pinterest was saying consumer blowback towards greenwashing or brands that feel disingenuous about the message is putting that could backfire, maybe so.

[D]

On the retail front though, it's guaranteed that it has already resonated and will continue to do so. A couple years ago Ulta did a concert for its loyal members at a big stadium. It is a thing that we keep track of over the years in terms of loyalty programs. The next iteration and Also stores are 80% of sales. Of course it's different depending on the category but absolutely retailers and brands have to find different ways of getting people off their couches and into stores. Critical. So I think it's not a one time solution but I also don't think it's a current trend that will go away.

[A]

Yeah it's interesting this idea of companies built around digital products helping users to live less digital lives. A recent separate art and marketing article from Alan Adamson or sorry it cited Alan Adamson, co founder of brand consulting consultancy Metaphor saying some saying more marketers may lean into encouraging in person connection real life experiences especially as digital spaces become more crowded. So Paola, I'll start with you for this one. What to you are some of the best examples of brands taking note of this trend and creating real world experiences.

[C]

So I really love fashion and I love my grandma is a seamstress so she taught me how to use a sewing machine and Levi's has A tailoring and customization studio that you can go and take your clothes and sort of like DIY it and learn new techniques. So I think that's really helpful. And it totally leans into their brand, which is really, really cool.

[A]

Very nice.

[C]

Yeah. And I think you already mentioned the workout classes. Like I've been to those.

[D]

I mean, it's a dime a dozen, right? It's like from Netflix doing stores to Harry Potter movies turning into stores and. Except experiences, but then there are these like unique to that company sort of activations and pop ups and ways of thinking about how to bring a brand to life that is different. So like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep going.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I don't know if it's okay. This is where you're supposed to practice. It's not me.

[A]

No, no, no. This is good.

[D]

So like, I think if the brands are doing it with an intention in mind. So of course there are like the, the Nike run clubs, I mean, but like one of the activations last year that I thought was very cool in New York was Nest, the scent. Sort of like they do fragrances and they do all kinds of different candles and everything. Very good, giftable. They were launching a new scent and they did these like scent walking path sort of things as you're walking down the avenue so you can smell the new scents and it's like a very physical experience for something that you would not be expecting and was much better than an ad. Right. And so I think companies need to think about these experiences to get people, folks, out of the digital realm, into the real world realm in a more sort of transparent, fun new way. So my actual example is not nest. It's L.L. bean has been for the last five years doing this off the grid campaign. I know, Marcus. I snuck one in. Sorry. And what I find really fascinating about L.L. bean is like, it's known for its outdoor world, right. For durable fun products outside. They understand that this is an issue. So they have limited edition this year and it just launched analog totem totes and off the grid totes. And you can customize them. You can customize a bunch of things from sunglasses to binoculars. They want you to go bird watching and camping and all kinds of other things that are L.L. bean related. And they are doing it as a pause for Mental Health Month. It's the fifth year, so there is longevity in what they're doing. And while it feels like a one one off kind of thing, it's not. And it has all these like, again, it's tied to merchandise. I think it's just there's so many different ways that you can bridge the gap between online and in store. And it feel real. And that for me, that was a really good example.

[A]

Very nice, Gajo. What about for you?

[B]

Yeah, well, just to add to that, there's the added benefit of actually understanding your audience in real time. You know, getting all those insights, being able to connect at that level without having to wait. Right. So I think that, you know, these real life, you know, campaigns or activations do really give you that. Plus, you know, the buzz and the hype also carries and pushes the brand's name out there. So, you know, word of mouth becomes something in play here as well.

[C]

I think as we were talking about earlier as well, I think that for a long time and maybe still there's like a fear of engaging with other people in these spaces. Right. I think it's maybe left over from the pandemic. Maybe it's a bunch of other things. Maybe it's because we're too online. I think there's a fear of being uncomfortable. And I think we're hitting a point where people are ready to be a little bit uncomfortable if it means they get a different experience. And so I do think that it would do well to capitalize on this cultural moment.

[A]

Yeah. Uncomfortable. You mean being in the real world?

[C]

I mean, yeah. Sometimes things are awkward. Sometimes social interactions are awkward. Like, I've been to meetup groups where I was like, oh, this was a mistake. And then I've been to meetup groups and swear I made lifelong friends. Right. Like, that's the place.

[A]

Coffee shop. And then you coffee order in your face and you're like, I'm a real person. Just put it down and say, here you go, sir.

[C]

Exactly like that.

[B]

So it's really about going beyond the comfort zone, right?

[C]

Yes, yes. And I do think, like, yeah. Having these places, these brands and these activities are provided as an excuse. Right. To do it. And then we can't handhold people. Like, they have to do it themselves once they get there. But it is good to provide that space.

[A]

Yeah. Talking about providing that space, I thought this was kind of slightly related, but I thought it was so interesting. I want to talk about it. That so. So Stephen Fry, he's a British actor, comedian, writer, director, broadcaster. The voice of the Harry Potter book,

[C]

V for Vendetta as well.

[A]

He did what?

[C]

V for Vendetta, I think. Yeah. Right.

[A]

Oh, is that always okay? And he's written a lot about Greek mythology. And I was watching an Interview with him the other day and he was talking about Hestia, who's the Greek goddess of the hearth, which is the area in front of a fire. And he was saying that we used to gather around fire to stay warm and would tell stories. And we don't do that anymore. We don't gather, we don't eat around tables. Nobody gathers around and shares stories. And I just thought that there's so many opportunities for brands to get involved in trying to be, trying to help people gather around a table, which is such a simple act. But I feel like that's a space that people could, especially brands could try to help or find their way into to help people just even just sitting around the table. It doesn't have to be. They have to create this amazing activation experience in the real. Just people sitting at the tables they already have in their houses would be

[D]

something I feel like there are lots of now apps again. It all starts with an app, a digital component that are trying to get random groups of people. You take a assessment looking for blah blah, blah. I haven't done it yet, but there's lots. And like when I first moved to New Year's there was this thing called Gastronauts. There's lots of different sort of. Do you know about that one? It was really cool. And they would like have a James Beard chef esque kind of person and they would find a space that was gigantic, that had a kitchen, like usually church basements and you would go and you would sit with people you didn't know. You buy a ticket and you would sit with people you didn't know and you would make conversation. And I think, I really do think it's like many other parts of, of the world of technology, right? When people are finally ready, like think about the QR code. When people are finally ready, it'll happen. People will stop doing whatever digital activity that they were doing and come and be in real life. Whether it's like a church basement dinner or whether it's a giant activation, it doesn't matter what the it is. People will get there when they're ready. It's like brands have been, Nike's been doing the running club for I don't know how many years. Once brand people are ready, it's like takes two, it takes both sides.

[A]

But you could do this with people that you do know. That's I guess the point I'm making is you can do this with friends or family that are already in your life and you feel comfortable with.

[C]

I have so my Friends and I do, like a cookbook club where we pick a cookbook and then we each assign, like, pick an appetizer, pick a main, pick, whatever. And so we've been doing at each other's homes, which has been lovely, huh?

[B]

You have a potluck after?

[C]

Yeah, we all bring the food and then we all hang out and we like, yeah, it's just to hang, but with a purpose. Right. And so I think one of the things we've been having fun and we've been saving money doing at each other's houses, but I think part of it is that our next step was like, well, what if we host it somewhere? What if we ask a space if they could have us so we could have more people? Or what if we did this weekend we're doing a little field trip, so we're gonna go check out a cookbook bookstore and then we're gonna try out some different food spots. But there's opportunities to tap into these community events and kind of like, yeah, just support them and in that, like, kind of provide that space in that way.

[B]

Also, the whole discussion around authenticity, right, A lot of pushback on maybe ads and campaigns that don't feel authentic and, you know, getting together in real life with real people. What's more authentic than that?

[D]

For me, the most important part of all of this is to just remember that we make a lot of assumptions about people, especially about Gen Z or like, all the shopping is online for any generation. It's not true. Right. And so I think the most important part is to just remember that what we think people are doing is maybe not what they're actually doing. And so it's important to take a step back, right?

[C]

Yeah, I think it's important to sort of figure out, like, what is it that they. They genuinely want? Which is the hardest question to ask. Right?

[B]

It's like, what do they want today? Could it be different from what they want next week?

[C]

Yes, 1,000%.

[A]

I want to quickly point to this last example, Gaja. You had KitKat creating a break mode.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[D]

I love this one.

[A]

Faraday cage that blocks signals, turning a snack break into a true digital experience. I don't know how this works, but I think it's brilliant.

[B]

It ties into their whole take a break, right? That's their whole slogan. So they've actually given you the tool to just hide your device and go off grid. So as to how it is used or how successful it is, I don't know, but it's. It really ties into their brand. So I think that's. That's really smart.

[A]

Yeah. Really clever example. All right, folks, that's all we've got time for today's episode. Thank you so much to my guests for hanging out with me today or with each other in the studio, but me on the video chat. Thank you to Paolo.

[C]

Thank you so much.

[A]

And Susie, thanks for me having. Having me and Gajo.

[B]

This was great, you guys. Thank you.

[A]

And the whole production crew, Luigi, John, Lance, whoever else is hiding in the background. Everyone listening to Mind the Numbers New Market podcast. Thank you. We'll be back on Monday. Until then, happiest of weekends.