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Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast
What Everyone Is Talking About at the NRF's Big Show 2026 | Reimagining Retail
00:24:05
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- [00:04]
A
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Emarketer's weekly retail show, Reimagining Retail, an Emarketer podcast. Today we're live from the NRF big show to give you our observations. Joining me, we have senior analyst Blake Drosch. Hey, Blake.
- [00:19]
B
Hey, Susie. Good to be with you here at the Javits Center.
- [00:22]
A
Thanks for joining me. I'm making the time. I know there's a lot going on here. And we also have Sarah Marzano, principal analyst.
- [00:28]
C
Hi, Susie. Thanks for having me. And I'm so happy to have literally found the podcast booth, which is an adventure.
- [00:37]
A
Well, I know you guys are both really busy, so thank you so, so much. And as everybody knows, this is the show where we talk about how retail collides with every part of our lives. And I'm your host, Susie Deva Canyon. And this week I'm so excited that we're at the Javits and we are going to talk about the nrf. And if you couldn't make it, don't worry, we have you covered. We're going to talk to you about the moments on stage that made us pause, the conversations that we were having on the sidelines, the things you might not have heard if you were trying to be in too many places at once and maybe a little bit about the floor and the booth. That surprised us, for better or worse. So with that, I'm going to get started. My first question to you both is what was one aha moment on stage that Blake, starting with you?
- [01:23]
B
Well, I'll start with a moment and something that occurred to me yesterday morning, which was the first day of the show, and I was sitting in sort of in the main stage area up on the fifth floor. I'd listened to a couple of panels, and it really occurred to me that really the future of retail has very little to do with actual retail itself. And if you think about what was being talked about, I heard about everything from events to foundations to sports betting data centers in space, but very little about the core fundamentals of retail itself. There were some exemptions. For example, the Sporting Good president spoke about store sizes and experiential retail. But I think, you know, when you come to a conference like this, what really comes to the surface is that the. Is this idea that that retail and growing a business, it really today relies a lot more on developing these alternative revenue streams and all of this brand building that goes far beyond, you know, the typical, you know, selling products at a good price and, you know, that are of high quality and building a brand around you Know, lifestyle and all, all of these sort of things that keep customers coming back beyond just the, you know, the core basics.
- [02:48]
A
So beyond product, now it's like retail as entertainment, retail as advertising platform, retail as service providers.
- [02:56]
C
Yeah.
- [02:56]
B
And I just think, like, these companies that are successful and are doing cool things and have, you know, interesting things to say, which is why they're invited to come speak at a show like this, you know, they have to be doing something beyond just performing successfully as a, as a core retailer. And in doing so, I think, you know, we hear a lot more about how not just, you know, retail operates, but businesses grow in general. And I think today that really means entering new areas that are not endemic to your original business model.
- [03:26]
A
It's really interesting because for me, when I think about retail, I think product is king. And if you don't have a really good product, you might have amazing in store experience, but it doesn't matter. Or you might have the best Netflix house to bring sort of entertainment to the forefront, but it won't matter if you don't have the right product. Sarah, what did you. What do you think about that?
- [03:47]
C
Well, I'm having trouble following Blake's existential answer, but, you know, I think it makes sense, right. As we think about, like, how to inject newness at a conference, like this is really what we all want to hear about. It's. We have to get beyond the core foundations of retail. But Susie, I think I'm just gonna be very diplomatic. I think you had a great point too, right. Which set the product is assortment and foundations of price, promotion and place still matter.
- [04:09]
B
I think that there. That is obviously very true what Susie's saying, but I think there's a difference between maybe just being able to do that well and then doing it in an innovative way. So I think like the core of operations still matters, but then once you get beyond that, because, you know, presumably successful retailers that exist have. Have to already, that's sort of table stakes. Right. But then I think the ones that are really doing, you know, driving innovation, it's typically not in that realm of the core retail model.
- [04:44]
A
Fair. Sarah, what. What was one of your aha moments?
- [04:47]
C
Yeah, so following on to like Blake's point about sort of ancillary revenue streams and how important they are to retail, perhaps unsurprisingly, one of the biggest aha moments for me was going to the session between Amazon Retail Ad Service and Macy's, and they had someone from Flywheel there as well talking about just how that partnership is progressing. So just a TL Dr. Catch everyone up. But a year ago at CES, Amazon made an announcement they'll be productizing their retail media technology. And Macy's has been one of the biggest major retailers to sort of get into bed with Amazon and sort of sign on for the core premise, which is that Amazon would be able to pipe in additional demand and streamline the friction that advertisers feel when it comes to buying media across disparate networks. And I think what was interesting to me again, you know, with my retail media analyst hat on sitting in the audience is I've been eager to hear real results of what that, how that partnership has come to fruition. And this is the first quarter where it's been fully live and we heard a couple nuggets, including 175 net new advertisers that are investing in in Macy's retail media thanks to this partnership. And something that the head of Macy's media network, Michael Cran, said on stage that what the partnership with Amazon is doing for them is helping them build credibility with enterprise level advertisers. Right. While easing friction for the torso and long tail of advertisers. So some different challenges that they're sort of working through that are opening the gates to additional revenue. And I will be very excited to see whether we can see any of that success play out when Macy's posts its Q4 results.
- [06:23]
A
It's really interesting because Macy's also has had their retail media for quite some time now. So even the folks that started a long time ago need help from others to try and make sure that they take advantage of all kinds of different advertisers.
- [06:35]
C
That's right. We haven't seen the number of networks advertisers spend with increase meaningfully over time. It's sort of hovered between three and five networks for years now because it's been really difficult for retailers and their media networks to ease again that friction that comes from buying across disparate platforms. So this is a challenge that has sort of continued to, I don't know, haunt many retail media networks who are the biggest in the in the room.
- [07:02]
A
It's so interesting because my aha moment came from a combination of on stage and conversations over the last three days. I started on Saturday, as did you, Sarah, on Saturday. And I think this is the most basic aha moment, but is worth remembering that organizational silos exist across every organization. And it's not the typical ones we used to think of like marketing digital merchants, but it's across everything. Even within delivery, for example, or even the people that are trying to get the things, the items, the original retail premise of SKUs from one place to the other and this idea of balancing operational efficiency with strategic need isn't a rinse and repeat. And you really need to understand how to break down the silos for that particular problem that you're solving. Well, onto number two, what was the most interesting side conversation you've had so far? Sarah? Starting with you.
- [07:58]
C
Yeah, so I did start on Saturday I went to an event hosted by stratacash called what's In Store for Retail Media and as the title suggests, it's focused on in store retail media and it's a really great, well attended event with excellent content. I don't just say that because they let me on stage a few times. But Susie, this ladders on to the point that you just made. The side conversations I was having that surprised me and also pleased me is I think there is an increased recognition that retail media exists because of retail. Right. And media has to understand how retail works in order to successfully succeed in those environments. Particularly as we think through building retail media that goes beyond sponsored product ads on retailers websites. Right. When it comes to moving into physical stores, which is a crucial opportunity for brick and mortar retailers, the need to break down those organizational silos and make sure that everyone is moving in sync and working towards the same goal is getting more and more important. And I think we're seeing the tone of the conversation really, really change. Right. And that's really exciting for me. I think it's going to get harder before it's going to get easier because dismantling the way these organizations have been built historically, when we identify that maybe it's not working anymore is certainly going to come with some friction, but it may be optimistic for retail media's future in general.
- [09:14]
A
Well, and I think it's interesting because it's not just the vendors that are saying it who are trying to implement their solutions and are saying like, if you guys aren't talking to each other, we're not going to be able to help you, but it's also the retailers and the organizations that are like, oh, if we want to keep growing, and it's like your last report said, if we want to keep growing, then you have to break down the silos.
- [09:32]
C
I had a great conversation with Mark Williamson, who leads the Costco Retail Media Network on stage at the event on Saturday and something that he and Costco talk about a lot is having a merchant first and member first retail media organization And I sort of pressed Mark on like what's, what's something you had to say no to that was part of you sort of adhering to these core values that was hard to say no to. Right. Because it was indicative of turning away easy revenue. And one of the things he pointed to was he steered clear of monetizing Costco's data at scale, like outside of the retail media environment because it wasn't something that was going to bring value to Costco customers. And so I loved that sort of value led approach and making those difficult decisions, decisions that again, recognize that we are here to run within retail media. We're here to enable the success of the retailers that we operate within.
- [10:24]
A
Yeah, that's great. Think about, it's okay to walk away from money if you're making, you're going to gain money on the other end.
- [10:30]
C
Faster, better, but you need organizational buy in and a lot of stakeholders coming together to have the strength to do that.
- [10:37]
A
It's the big picture, the long game. Blake, what about you?
- [10:40]
B
I sat in a lot of panels yesterday and this morning that to nobody's surprise, were revolving around the topic of agentic commerce and AI. And I think that if I could offer some light criticism of the agenda this year, there was a lot of, you know, similar topics, a lot of similar panels arranged, all arranged around the topic of agentic commerce. And I think, you know, one of the things that I had gotten to a conversation about yesterday was that there were a lot of panels with the same headline, the same theme, but they were all talking about agentic commerce differently. Like there was no standardized definition of what exactly that meant. And in fact there was very little talk about the actual automation of purchasing through AI platforms, which is, I think, you know, at least in my opinion, sort of what the true meaning of the definition of agentic commerce is. I think one of the reasons why it wasn't really addressed is because it is such a big topic. It is dominating this entire event, but so little of it has actually been put into practice. So we're really sort of exhausting a conversation around what is primarily a theoretical topic at this point or falling back on things like, you know, basically sophisticated chatbots that are enhancing, enhancing personalization. And I think all of these topics are really important to be discussing, but it would be very helpful, I think, if we didn't just sort of, you know, slap the buzzword on everything. And we actually, you know, said, okay, in this panel we are going to talk about personalization through better chatbots that AI are Empowering. In this panel, we are going to talk about what might the future hold with actual true agent, Agent Commerce. So I think that some of the. You know, I did strike up a discussion yesterday in a panel that I won't name because I. I think it was.
- [12:46]
A
They tried.
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B
It was a quite. Yeah. Fluffy conversation around, you know, the potential for something that doesn't sounds really great but has not really been put into practice. And I think that, you know, the panelists had a very difficult time sort of articulating how it's actually going to look and what the prospects for success are. So I think, look, this is not the last NRF where Agent of Commerce is going to dominate the conversation. Right. So I think going forward as an industry, it would be very helpful to sort of be a little bit more clear and use some more plain language about sort of what we're. What we're discussing within that realm.
- [13:23]
A
It's interesting because I had a lot of side conversations and did not go to as many panels as I would have liked to yet. Every vendor, pretty much, that I talked to was like, it's AI hype. We're at the end of the cycle. Hopefully a lot of people used explicit words when they were talking about AI and some of their competitors, potentially. Only because I think if you've been in retail for a long time, you know that AI is not new. And maybe there are, like, slightly new components, but every retailer and vendor who's supporting them has been using AI in some way, shape or form, and there are new parts. And that's the part to your point that we need to figure out. But it was interesting to hear that the cycle hopefully will be over. And I was like, is that like rfid? And they were like, yep, like rfid, Internet of Things, Roblox, which, as you all know, I love Web3. They all go through these cycles and then everybody figures out how to use them.
- [14:13]
C
Yeah. I think what's nice is like, hopefully to Blake's point, like, when the dust settles, we can start using the phrases more meaningfully and intentionally. Right. And see where it actually matters, where it actually will make a difference. Difference to the retail and E commerce landscape, because I believe that it will. But when you slap the same title on every session and throw in the word transformation or disruption, it starts to lose all meaning and certainly loses all of its impact if you're an attendee.
- [14:38]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And not having a similar definition. Kind of like what you were experiencing with retail media a couple years ago.
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C
Right.
- [14:44]
A
If everybody doesn't Think about the exact definition and then commerce media, then it's hard to talk about it. My next question to you guys is, is there a trend that you thought would be more represented either on the floor or in panels that isn't? Sarah?
- [15:01]
C
It's not a trend by any means, but I continue to be surprised every year at how retail media is largely a neglected topic. And again, there is the great event that Strata Cash throws dedicated to in store. But I think that the event has a place where specifically because retail media was a neglected piece of a neglected topic at nrf, it's a hugely important revenue generator for retailers. And we are not past the hype cycle here. We're actually just getting started. And so I was sort of shocked to see that, like, when I looked at the agenda, there was sort of maybe one retail media session here, one there, but largely felt like an afterthought.
- [15:41]
A
Yeah. What about you, Blake?
- [15:43]
B
I will say as a more objective viewer, your paycheck doesn't depend that retail media was certainly more underrepresented here than it has been in the past. So I think that's for sure. But I honestly think that a lot of sort of emerging trends in technology have been underrepresented this year because it's either been dominated by AI or has been talked about beneath the guise of AI, which I think goes back to sort of my. Not to harp on my last comment, but I think it's true. And I think that, you know, for example, look at social commerce. It's something that was really hot here three years ago, but it was a lot further off from being like a tangible, actual, like important revenue stream for a lot of these retailers. But, you know, I was in a panel yesterday with PACs on, and they were saying that, you know, 10% of their E commerce sales are coming from social commerce at this point. So, like, we're now at a place where a lot of these. These trends are sort of, you know, ramping up and becoming mature and sophisticated that, you know, maybe actually now is the time that retailers should be considering these channels and getting actually more tactical about them. And I think sort of we so often talk about as an industry, you know, what is the sort of the fresh and new thing. And then as soon as it becomes legitimate, we sort of abandon it to go on to the next thing that's coming without actually, you know, investing in it and giving it the time of day. So I think, yeah, social commerce, I love that.
- [17:19]
C
I think that's such a good point. And like you said, it earlier, like, we spend so much time at these conferences fixated on topics that are largely theoretical because of how early on they are in development. And then when there's real revenue opportunity, we're not spending as much time, which is meaningful because these are strategies and decisions that could make a real difference for the retailers and brands that are attending.
- [17:38]
A
Yeah. And there are a lot of technologies that are the underpinning of, let's call it AI, for now @ least, that you can't just talk about one year and then move on. You know, if you don't keep talking about it, then you can't implement newer, bigger, better in any of those things that help with margin, that help save margin. What is one booth that surprised you on the floor? What's something that surprised you.
- [18:00]
B
Blake? I was surprised how, because I was over at the Amazon booth earlier today and I was surprised to see that sort of front and center was this. This booth that they have that or this installation that they have, which is basically as a way of showing off their AI platforms, is a like prototype for product development and go to market for consumer products. So basically it's this concept around a DTC brand needs to design a new piece of luggage, they sell luggage and they showcase all of the ways in which AWS AI can perform market research, product design and product build, and basically help you determine the margins of a particular product that would be sold either on Amazon or through another marketplace or direct to consumer. And I thought it was really interesting in a couple of ways. One, I just thought it was a unique way for them to have a practical application for the different nuances of their technology, but also the fact that it's not actually a product that they're allowing their vendors on their marketplace to use use to develop products to sell on Amazon when I would think that it would be right. Like you think that a company that has a huge marketplace and is investing in this technology would love to be able to give people a tool to develop products to be sold specifically on the Amazon marketplace. Maybe that's coming. But I'm, you know, I mean.
- [19:39]
A
They were part of the press tour, so I was so excited about it. And having done product testing at a company I worked for before, it's so critical to get it right at the beginning stages. The way they articulate that product, what I thought was a product, but like you're saying, it's not. It's just a showcase of everything that they.
- [19:56]
B
Do.
- [19:57]
A
Yeah. So I think it's just a matter of time. It was really cool.
- [19:59]
B
Though. Yeah, it was cool. I thought it was cool. And then I think the Google booth, they again, all of these companies have AI front and center. It kind of looks like they're all showcasing the same services, whether it's Amazon, Google, Adobe, IBM, all of the big ones that are front and center. I thought Google's just from a marketing standpoint had really good messaging. If you go into their booth, they have all of the different services, all the different ways that AI is enabling retailers on the front end and the back end. And I think, you know, Amazon was making an attempt to do the same thing just because they've launched all of these different platforms, all of these, this different technology and everyone's trying to sort of make sense of, you know, which aspects can do, can do what. And I thought Google sort of arranged that very.
- [20:48]
A
Neatly. Yeah. Plus they had a, they had a reason to be really cool since they just announced some new, new things.
- [20:53]
B
Too. Yeah, they did. So the partnership with, with Walmart and, and you know, the development of their ejected commerce in partnership with many top retailers as well. And I think like one of the things from this, one of the big takeaways from this conference so far is really how aggressive Google is being in really wanting to partner with retailers and win them over to be on their shopping platforms, which is, you know, just by comparison. I know like, you know, Walmart has partnered with OpenAI. A couple of months ago, OpenAI did not much of a presence here. I don't think they're on any, any panels as far as I know. We where Google on the other hand is being very.
- [21:33]
A
Aggressive. Yeah. Sarah, what about you? Did you have a chance to walk the floor a.
- [21:38]
C
Little? There is a great vendor that has a really cool piece of innovative technology that really struck me again from that in store retail media perspective. It's called clear led. They can sort of broadcast these LED displays and they can leverage existing physical retail surfaces to do.
- [21:52]
A
That.
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C
Right. So think about the windows on a retailer's storefront, right. They can leverage those to be basically turn them into what seems like a digital screen and use that for dynamic storytelling. Right. Whether that's something from a merchandising point of view or even something from a brand paid advertising pov. And what I love about that is that one of the biggest sort of impediments that we hear from retailers when it comes to scaling their in store retail media is that the infrastructure and the cost of setting up the technology and figuring out where on the floor that they're already utilizing it Makes sense. Sense to make room for digital screens is this inhibitor. Right. So I love the idea of being able to use this sort of less intrusive technology on surfaces that already exist within physical.
- [22:34]
A
Retail. What does that look.
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C
Like? It looks like what a digital screen would look like, except it's like.
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A
On. Like on a white.
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C
Wall. It's on the window. It's like. So it's on glass, like on the window at the front of the store. Oh.
- [22:44]
A
That'S. Oh, just at the front of the store for now, at.
- [22:46]
C
Least. Yeah. Well, I think there's other surfaces that they can use in physical stores, and even they can do things like overlaid on top of product. So, you know, it's like sort of taking the store and turning it into a canvas for projecting these dynamic.
- [22:57]
A
Messages. One of the things I thought was cool is that there are a lot to your point about Google being everywhere. There are a lot of vendors that are partnering and bringing big vendors, bringing in their smaller partner vendors to be at the booth with them. There was one with. You should go check it out with the fuel pumps, I think they're called the small, small, smaller vendor was Dover Fueling Solutions, and they're doing some really cool things at the pump with even click and collect where you're the screen, you're gonna be able to say what's in the. Let's call it 711 in the convenience store to then go and pick it up. It's.
- [23:28]
C
Fascinating. Yeah. Drive that impulse.
- [23:30]
A
Purchase. That's right. That's all the time we have for. I feel like we could keep talking and talking. Thank you.
- [23:35]
C
Sarah. Thank you for having.
- [23:37]
A
Me. And thanks.
- [23:38]
B
Blake. Yeah, great to be.
- [23:39]
A
Here. And thank you, listeners, listeners and to our team, especially Lance that edits the podcast. So quickly, please leave a rating or review and remember to subscribe. I'll see you for more reimagining retail next Wednesday. And on Friday, join Marcus for another episode of behind the Numbers, an E marketer.