Podcast
Behind the Scenery
Hosted by National Park Service · EN
Hidden forces shape our ideas, beliefs, and experiences of Grand Canyon. Join us, as we uncover the stories between the canyon’s colorful walls. Probe the depths, and add your voice for what happens next at Grand Canyon!
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Looking for Love and Commitment at the North Rim
Sep 3000:38:49Tap to summarizeWhat is something you’ve dedicated your life to or hope to one day? Listen to North Rim visitors and park employees as they share some of their lifelong commitments—what getting married in a national park is like, hard-earned wisdom, and visions for a better future. And learn where the North Rim Wedding Site is! ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Transcript Visitor 1: Love and acceptance. For all beings regardless of politics, gender, size, age, beliefs. All of each of us is welcome. Unity without uniformity. Love and hugs. [“Behind the Scenery” music and speaking introduction] Kamryn: Thanks for joining us today to listen to “Looking for Love and Commitment at the North Rim.” My name is Kamryn. Doug: My name’s Ranger Doug and we are rangers at... Kamryn: Grand Canyon 's North Rim! And today we'll be sharing stories of weddings, different dedications, commitments people have made in their lives, all in response to the prompt: Every year people share wedding vows at this very spot. What is something you've dedicated your life to or hope to one day? Doug: But first of all, I wanted to share a little side trip we have in mind for you. The main developed area here at the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park is the primary destination—lodge, campground, awesome views, Bright Angel Point trail. All of our visitors drive 45 miles on a dead-end road, and they end up at the lodge and or the campground to enjoy those views. But if you’re here for more than a day and you have a vehicle that is 22-foot length or less, then we have an awesome paved side trip, 23 miles all the way out to a very special view. Yeah, I consider the best views in all of the North Rim for their developed area it's called Cape Royal-Point Imperial Road. So I thought we could uh go explore that and check it out. We'll describe what's at the very end which was the source of this podcast. OK let's go. It takes about 45 minutes nonstop to drive all the way to the end of the road, which is what we recommend. We recommend folks drive there, do the walk out to Cape Royal, enjoy the views, and then on the return trip stop at all the overlooks and viewpoints. So here's what you have to see along the road. I really like the first 5 miles or so of the road. We're going through an earlier burn area and the whole hillsides are just loaded with small aspen trees and they're beautiful, brilliant green in early June when we're recording this podcast now. But later on, the third fourth week in September whole hillsides they turn golden color yellow reds all different beautiful hues as we have some of the best fall colors anywhere in the American West. After about 5 minutes of gradual climb we will cross a divide, we’ll drop down into this beautiful canyon and it's actually Bright Angel Canyon. And for folks that have ridden the mules, stopped on a river trip, or hiked down to Phantom Ranch, there's no way in the world you would expect that the very upper end of this canyon looks as beautiful and as lush as you're driving through now. This was the site of a Civilian Conservation Corps work camp in the 1930s. It was so cold they at night they even called it Ice Box Canyon. There's a good book called, “Ace in the Hole,” it profiles Company 818 of the Civilian Conservation Corps if you want to learn more about the North Rim Conservation Corps camps. Then we come to a “Y,” a fork in the road. If we turn left on that Y, it’s about a three mile side trip to Point Imperial which is the highest point on the rim anywhere in Grand Canyon National Park, little over 8800 feet. So let's not do that side trip today, let's continue south and what do we see? Kamryn: Yeah so if we take that right in the Y we'll first pass by Greenland Lake. That will be on our right and that's a really cool sinkhole. Right now, there's a good amount of water in there and it will dry start drying up towards the end of the summer. But that's a short hike and you'll pass by the lake and then go towards this old little cabin. And then if we keep going along the road, to our left will be Vista Encantada and that is one of the picnic areas with ab overlook so nice views again of the canyon and the valley there, with a picnic area as well. Along the road, as we keep going, we'll pass Roosevelt Point on the left and that will be after a little bit more of a drive. Some good overlook as as well, a small trail, and then there's this rock with a quote right at the front of the overlook that kind of is Teddy Roosevelt saying to leave Grand Canyon as it is. We’ll continue through the beautiful ponderosa pine forest. It's super open here, very scenic, a lot of burns in this area to maintain that ponderosa pine forest and keep it healthy. Once we go down this little hill, we'll pass the Cape Final trailhead, so off to our left there's this dirt parking lot. There's a couple of trash cans there and that's a nice four-mile round trip hike out to Cape Final where you have beautiful views of the river and the canyon and you'll wind through the forest on the way there. Next, we have the Walhalla Overlook and Pueblo, so we'll pull off to the left here and this is the Walhalla Overlook. We've got awesome views of the Colorado River here and then if we cross the road and go to the right, we'll be at the Walhalla Pueblo and this is the largest village site that has been found on the North Rim from ancestral people whose descendants are still here today. We’ll keep going and just at the bottom of this hill here there's a pull off on the left and this is for the Cliff Springs trail. So if we go down across the road to the right, we'll get on this short trail about half a mile and you'll pass a granary and then get to cliff spring where water is dripping out of the cliff, the rocks there. And this is a little bit in the canyon itself so it's a nice short trail to get a taste of what canyon hiking is like. And then if we continue on the road, the last little bit, this tight turn this tight curve we’ll get to the big gravel parking lot at Cape Royal. Doug: Well, we just arrived at the awesome view Cape Royal view. Ranger Kamryn, tell us about the trail, how we got here. Kamryn: Yeah so it's a short trail about 0.4 miles to the end of the trail here. It's paved, it's pretty gradual slope with a little bit of a steeper slope right at the end but it's an awesome little trail. The first 100 yards you'll get to this nice bench that's in the shade most of the time. That's another great river view and you'll see right through Angel's Window so this big hole in the rock and right through there you can see Unkar Rapids. That’s mile 72 from Lee's Ferry where Grand Canyon itself starts but that's a great viewpoint, great place to stop and rest in the shade. As you keep going on the trail, we passed by the side trail to Angel’s Window, so that hole in the rock, you can actually go on top of that there. It's not for those with a fear of heights but it's got some really cool views, very steep drop offs if that is your cup of tea. And then we continued down all the way here to the end of the trailhead and Doug, what are we seeing? Doug: Oh my gosh this has got to be the finest view on all of the North Rim area. I can look straight across from this overlook and see the Grandview Point area along the South Rim. We see much of the South Rim Road, it’s about 25 miles or so from the South Rim Village in the southwest to the Desert View Watchtower. And if you look over there in the southeast, you can actually see a small bump on the canyon rim. That is the famous Desert View Watchtower. It's probably about nine air miles from where we are here. Grandview Point looking straight south is about eight and if we swing our view over to the southwest it's about ten and a half air miles to the South Rim Village. And we really can't see the village during daylight hours, occasionally you catch a reflection off a windshield but at night you can see the diminished lights and pick out where the main South Rim Grand Canyon National Park Village is. Also, in the southwest corner below the rim we can see a small section of the South Kaibab trail, that's the route, one of two trails that take you all the way down to the Colorado River and the famous Phantom Ranch down at the bottom. We have a couple of cool geologic features right in front of us. We have Vishnu Temple, Wotans Throne is a chunk of the North Rim, a flat chunk that has broken off and tilting off into the Grand Canyon away from the rim. It's not uncommon to hear or maybe even see peregrine falcons flying by. And I've been out on Cape Royal here and once or twice and I've caught a very rare glimpse of a California condor flying overhead. So, let's go back to the parking lot and see if we can find this Wedding Site that was the source of your notebook. Kamryn: So we're back at the trailhead in the big gravel parking lot and at the north end where kind of the closest part to where you drive in from there's some vault toilets there. And then if you go to the all the way opposite end of the parking lot, the farthest south end, you'll see two metal trash cans right there. There's no signs or anything else so just look for those trash cans at the far end of the parking lot and that is the way to the Wedding Site. So there's a picnic area it's only about 25 yards to the rim but you'll see some picnic tables there on your left and then on your right there's a small wooden sign that says Wedding Site with an arrow to the right with a little heart in it. It's very cute. Doug: Very classy, I think. Kamryn: And you'll follow that sign to the right there, another short walk and you'll come to the Wedding Site itself. So there's five or six wooden benches there and then this small rock right in the middle that serves as an altar. <P...
Transcribe →Complexity and Quiet – Understanding Soundscapes with Mike Kearsley
Aug 1600:30:20Tap to summarize“The intangible version of an undeveloped area where you don't have buildings, you don't have roads. You look at that and you say this is complete. This is intact. And the same way for a soundscape. You don't hear a bus going by or a helicopter or an aircraft or a jet overhead. That's what, an intact soundscape would be.” As Grand Canyon’s Wilderness Coordinator, Mike Kearsley spent years understanding what makes a healthy soundscape. This and more in this episode of Behind the Scenery! ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Jesse: Hey, this is Jesse. On this episode of the podcast, we're featuring an interview with retired Grand Canyon Wilderness Coordinator, Mike Kearsley. The interview was recorded by Desert View rangers Dawn Thompson and Melissa Panter. You’ll also hear from Science and Resource Management Deputy Chief Sarah Haas at the very end of the episode. Enjoy. Mike: My name is Mike Kearsley. Now I am retired from the Park Service. I do still work a little bit. I work for, the road scholar program at NAU doing hikes with people, showing them the Grand Canyon, Organ Pipe, Saguaro other places like that. And before that, I worked in the Resource Management Division at Grand Canyon. I started working there in 2007. Was brought on to do the vegetation map. I mapped, coordinated the vegetation mapping of the park and parts of Lake Mead that were part of Grand Canyon Parishant National Monument. And after that ended in 2012, I worked on the backcountry management plan. We, I did mostly impacts analysis and affected environment writing, that kind of thing. And then in 2016 became the wilderness coordinator and um and actually became a permanent employee in 2019. Yeah. Yeah. And, as Wilderness Coordinator, one of the duties was working on soundscapes questions along with minimum requirements analyses, impacts analysis, backcountry campsite monitoring, all kinds of stuff. Dawn: Yeah. So for most people listening, they might not know what a soundscape is. So, would you want to, like, explain what that, is and what that means? Mike: Um it, it's the acoustic environment that you are in. It is the auditory or acoustic qualities of an area, and it's specific to the area, specific to the time of year. Dawn: In my, in my program, I talk about soundscapes. I'm like, it's inescapable. Like you're always in a soundscape, always, Mike: You’re always in a soundscape! Dawn: And you're always contributing to it. Mike: It's one of the intangible parts of the environment that you're in. It's like the, like a smell, like aroma. Dawn: So when you were studying soundscapes at the Grand Canyon, what exactly where you studying or looking for? Mike: We were mostly doing, compliance monitoring for overflights. Overflights are limited to certain parts of the park, and the reason for doing that is that they want to limit the amount, the total area of the park that is exposed to aircraft noise more than a certain percentage of the day. And so we had our listening stations set up underneath these air tour corridors. So that was the primary reason for monitoring soundscapes. Dawn: Yeah. When you're talking about like, a listening station, like, what do you, like describe that to me. Mike: OK. It's, it's a set up that has two components. One of them is just an audio recorder, a digital audio recorder that records the sounds, and it's paired with a sound pressure level meter that's a little more technical. It does more or less the same thing, but it breaks the, sounds into intervals of the sound spectrum that are one third octave tall or one third octave broad. And for each of those intervals of the spectrum, it says it, it records how, how much sound pressure there is, the, the loudness of that sound pressure. Dawn: Right. Mike: So there's those two things, microphones, a solar panel, a big battery pack. And usually we would put a wildlife camera out just to, in case there was something that was happening that we picked up on the acoustic recording and didn't understand what was making it we could we could look at that. We recorded some really interesting wildlife stuff, trespass livestock coming through. Dawn: Yeah! Mike: Horses, destroying the the solar panels turning over all of our buckets. It was uh, it's fun. Yeah. Dawn: Yeah. I think on the the sound drive, there's, audio of elk licking the foam off of, like, an SM4, which is pretty funny. Mike: Yep. What is that sound? Well, now we needed a way to understand what that sound was. Dawn: Wait, so were you like manning these, like, listening stations or would you like You put them up and then, like… Mike: When they first started putting them out in the early 2000s, it was part of the air tour management plan that they were putting together. They would do, attended listening just to verify what it was, that they were hearing on the recordings. But for the most part, no, you just set it up, recorded an audio timestamp. You look at your GPS, what's the GPS time in three, two, one clap. It's 11:05. And so that way you can synchronize the, the acoustic recording with the sound pressure level meter. Dawn: Oh. Mike: So I mean, that was, but but then you walk away and you don't come back until either you need to service it or you want to download a week's worth of stuff. But yeah, there's very little, we did very little, attended listening. Dawn: Right on. I was just imagining, like, a couple of scientists, like, sitting out, just, like, really quiet for many hours, you know. And so you were under the flight corridors? Mike: Yeah. Dawn: And this was, are these, like Air Tours? Mike: They’re air tours, right. There are specific areas where the air tours are supposed to fly. There's one over by Desert View at Zuni Point. It goes right over Zuni Point, goes north. There's another one that comes south that goes over the Dragon. It's, peninsula off of the North Rim and goes over, I think it's Bouchet Use Area west of Hermit, Hermits Rest and then east west. That one goes back from the southern end of that it goes back to the Tusayan Airport. At the north, and the Zuni Corridor turns west and goes across the North Rim just north of the Basin. Melissa: Did you have stations like, all throughout that? Mike: No, just at the southern end of the Zuni Corridor and the Dragon Corridor. And then we'd set one up in the Basin to catch those three points, because those are more or less the, places where the, we saw the most activity. And it's also where you're going to intercept most of the traffic. Dawn: Yeah. Just because it's my personal curiosity and I think I'd ask you this before, was that affecting wildlife if it was, like, in what ways? Mike: Before the air tours were required to fly more than 1000ft above the rim they, and before these air tour corridors were established, they could fly anywhere. And they would typically drop over the rim and fly around below the rim. Dawn: Yeah. Mike: And of course, you want to see things. And pilots like to point out wildlife. And there was a grad student at NAU whose master's thesis showed that when a herd of bighorn was harassed if that's the word by, by an air tour it stressed them out there. They didn't have as many, offspring. They didn't have as many young. They were always, they were moving around. So, that's, after the change to the air to recorders that was much reduced. And by putting them up above the rim, I think, that that also reduced the amount of impacts on wildlife. Dawn: Totally. Yeah. I think when Sarah and I were talking, you had like, described it like the wild west of the sky like before they had the corridors, which boggles my mind. Mike: Yeah, I was, when I was 12 years old, I flew from Williams over the rim and the pilot dropped us down in and flew us all around. We had, our car broke down and Williams on a big cross-country trip, and that was our way of wasting time while the parts for a Volkswagen bus came up from Phoenix and they actually, the guy, the pilot flew us all over the place. And the whole time he was saying, keep your eye out, my buddy so-and-so is up here too, and I don't know where he is. So there was another pilot flying there right below the rim. Yeah, it was a source of anxiety for sure while we were flying. Dawn: Wow, dang. It's so different now. Mike: Very different. And much more popular. I mean, there's a lot more flights now than there were then. And if you're in Bouchet, it's really insane because they're right on top of you the whole time. Dawn: I can imagine that would, like, affect, a visitor’s or like, just anyone's, like personal experience if they have, like, all these flights going overhead. Mike: Right. Dawn: When you were studying soundscapes with interns and stuff, like, was anything like that measured or like. Mike: No, that took place mostly in a lot of those interviews and studies took place in the early 2000s. They were, they would set up, you know, all across the South and North Rims. They looked at, they recorded in many different places to find out, you know, what was the impact. And, yeah, it was we were just specifically focused on the, the air tour corridors. Dawn: So I know you had talked about some like interns like when you had interns. Mike: Oh, yeah. Dawn: Were there any interns who, like, inspired you or that you learned from or… Mike: There were there were a number of them. That was one of the joys of my job was working with interns who were fresh out of college or out of their master's degree and excited about the work. And the first two we had were, Maggie and Hannah who basically resurrected the program I had been given the program which had remained, which had been dormant since probably 2010 and this is 2017. They found the gear, they got it working. Th...
Transcribe →Let’s Meet Grand Canyon’s Doc!
Aug 301:03:32Tap to summarizeCanyon explorer/hiker extraordinaire. Noted Grand Canyon book author. Family guy. And medical doctor to Grand Canyon National Park. Join us for an in-depth, fun, and at times personal interview with a fascinating human being: Dr. Tom Myers. Also, learn who is really to blame for many of Grand Canyon’s medical incidents, injuries, and mishaps! ---TRANSCRIPT:--- ♫Guitar and singing: ♫Hiking away again in Grand Canyon, ♫Searching for my elec-tro-lytes (salt, salt, salt), Dr. Myers quote (Sometime it's on the path it's on the path most rocky that you will find your footing most true.) ♫Some people claim, there’s a Ran-ger to blame, ♫But I know, it’s my own darn fault. Grand Canyon. Where hidden forces shape our ideas, beliefs, and experiences. Join us as we uncover the stories between the canyon’s colorful walls. Probe the depths and add your voice for what happens next at Grand Canyon. Hello and welcome. This is Jesse. This is Emily. And this is: Behind the Scenery. “Hiking Away again in Grand Canyon.” Indeed! How about completing 300 Grand Canyon hiking/backpacking trips? How would you like to spend over 1000 days hiking/exploring below the rim? How about releasing a new 430-page book about your seven-year quest to hike the entire length of the Grand Canyon? A though-hike feat accomplished by maybe around 60 people only, in modern history? Oh, let’s also throw in over 40 Grand Canyon Colorado River raft trips? And a couple other Grand Canyon books, including the best-selling: Over The Edge/Death in the Grand Canyon book. 600-pages! Lists all know fatal mishaps in Grand Canyon. Sold over ¼ million copies! All of this, on your own time. Hello. My name is ranger Doug. I am a summertime park ranger at the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park. I would like to introduce you to Tom Myers. He is the dude who has accomplished all of the above. But wait. There’s more. Actually his full name is Doctor Tom Myers. Yes, you guessed it, medical doctor Tom Myers. That’s his day job: Doctor to Grand Canyon National Park. Since 1990. Yes, there is a medical clinic on the South Rim of Grand Canyon National Park. On call 24/7. Seeing patients, many of whom are having the worst day of their lives. Over time, Dr. Myers has become an expert in understanding heat-related problems. Currently he and his wife Becky live in Flagstaff, Arizona and have three grown children and two grandchildren. In late May, 2025, Dr. Tom Myers came to the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park, as a guest speaker. To deliver a public talk and slide program titled: Lessons from Life and Death at Grand Canyon. While visiting the North Rim, I thought it might be nice to have a conversation with this fascinating man. I invited him to join me for an in depth, wide-ranging and at times personal interview … looking into his life and park experiences. You are in for a real Grand Canyon treat. Dr. Tom Myers, come on in. Join me. Welcome. Dr. Myers: My name is Tom Myers. I am a physician by training. And I would like your listeners to know that I consider myself a hopeless Grand Canyon addict. Pretty much love everything Grand Canyon and probably a lot like them and, the reason they're tuned into this podcast. Doug: OK why become a physician? Dr. Myers: I'd like to preface that answer by saying I'm a Mamma 's boy. I always have been. My mother is still alive by the way. She's 92 years old. My mother raised myself and my siblings on her own. It was very difficult and I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for her. My mom had careers picked out a professions for all of us, my siblings and myself. Like lawyer or doctor or banker but the two she seemed to hold in highest regard were priests and doctors. And she's very devout Catholic so she loved priests. But she also loved doctors and she would say “I have seven sons. One of you needs to be a priest. And one of you to be a doctor.” I remember thinking a priest? That ain't happening at least not with me you know girls are way too fascinating. You know I'm I might want one someday I did want one someday. I thought let Dave or Terry or Jim or John or Joe or Jerry have that priest job. And I'll I'll be a doctor. Anyway, she planted the seed. I didn't want to disappoint didn't want to disappoint her. She also told me that, you know, medicine was a noble career and a path out of poverty. And we were a welfare families so that also had an impact and that's why I started down the road to be a Doctor. Doug: OK. What Grand Canyon pictures or art or memorabilia do you have on your wall at home or at your medical office and tell me about some of those and why they speak to you? Dr. Myers: Most of the ones that we have on the walls at my house and there are a lot of them and memorabilia are things of photos that I collected with my adventures and explorations in the Canyon with my family. You know the ones that were there where where I was there with the ones I love most in my life. You know whether it's down at Phantom or somewhere remote those are the ones I cherish. And so a lot of those fortunately Becky hasn't been too annoyed that I put Canyon stuff up everywhere. Besides photos that take me back to a place in time and a memory, because really for me it's about the memories not the miles, but besides those that we have quite a collection of old Canyon signs they're ones that were hand routered. I had a friend that when I working on the South rim as a doctor the same time I was there the guy who has had the sign shop I went to high school with him and he was a buddy and I just asked him “hey do you have any old signs that are now obsolete that you're getting rid of?” “I guess sure Tom you can have this or that” and so I got some of those. But one of my favorites, it's kind of a cool story, but before they built the mile and a half rest houses there used to be a sign down at Havasupai Garden that said: last toilets until South Rim. So you're hiking up it's like you need do you needed to know you needed to use the restroom before you start it out because that was the last toilet for four and a half miles until you got to the rim. So when that was built, the mile and a half rests houses, that sign became obsolete. And I saw it in the trash pile with my friend who was the Ranger down there at the Garden at Time and I said “hey what you do with that?” He said “probably burn it. You know it's gonna be thrown away.” I'm like “can I have it?” He said “sure.” So I hiked it out and put it in the bathroom in our house at the South Rim. And within a few days of doing that, Robert Arnberger, who is a Superintendent and his wife Alvira, came over for dinner. And Rob said “hey I need to use the rest room.” “Yeah, sure, go ahead, it’s right over there.” And then Becky I looked at each other and went “uh oh, that sign’s in there.” And I thought “oh man, he might think I stole it.” And then he came out and he was laughing cause he knew the sign was obsolete and he was like “God I just love that sign.” So that's one of my favorite. Doug: OK cool. Now often physicians they specialize in a certain part of a medicine you know internal medicine cardiology whatnot. Why didn't you specialize? Dr Myers: Well you know honestly Doug I think an even better question from my perspective was: why stayed in medicine at all? And when I get to into medical school I got to be you know completely honest I was disenchanted with the career. I wasn't sure I wanted it to be a doctor. Ranger Doug: Why is that? Dr. Myers: Well, you know, the whole process was grueling you know it's all consuming you know it's really disheartening a lot of ways. The pressure was tremendous. You'd ask me one point about a mentorship and I'll talk about that but I didn't find ... I didn't have a mentor physician within that training somebody that I really aspired to be like. And so when I got to my senior year I told Becky “I don't want to do this. I don't think I'm very good at it as a matter of fact I think I'm probably suck at it, you know” and I said “I'd like to leave.” And she said “well I’ll support you whatever you want to do.” But that being said I also knew then I spent years and years and you know thousands of hours and a lot of money toward that career. And I would have a debt, my school debt, to pay off. And I decided to do my internship and just kind of see what happened. And I was in internal medicine. I got to the end of that year and I told the director I’m still searching for you know, for some place in the field. I wasn't really convinced that it was my path in life. And I told the director “I was leaving the program.” He said “wow, well what are you going to do?” And I said “I think I'm going to go to the Grand Canyon.” And he looks at me he goes, “What are you Myers, some kind of dirt farmer?” And I'm like: “No.” And he goes: “Well what would you do at the Grand Canyon?” And I said: “I'm thinking about being an interpretive Ranger.” He goes: “really”, he goes “what does that mean? You gonna give a Smokey the Bear enemas?” And I'm like: “no, an interp.ranger tells stories and educates the public about the place.” And I said: “That's what I think I might want to do as well.” “Good luck.” Long story short, I did eventually get my license to practice medicine, and I think Grand Canyon sort of found me. But that's a whole another story. But I end...
Transcribe →Many Hats of a Park Ranger Part 2
Jul 2700:33:52Tap to summarizeCobbler, sanitation worker, language interpreter, Sheriff of the Junior Rangers – which of these are real duties performed by Grand Canyon Law Enforcement Rangers? To find out, join in the conversation with three backcountry rangers at Phantom Ranch while they talk about the many hats they wear, and the work they’re most proud to do. ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Jesse: Hey, this is Jesse. We’re five years in to the Behind the Scenery podcast, now, and every now and then we unearth some audio files from the early days. This episode was recorded almost exactly five years ago in the summer of 2020, the first year of the podcast. It’s a conversation between Brendan, an interpretive ranger whose main job is to give talks and answer visitor questions, and two backcountry law enforcement rangers, Kate, and Jacob. You’ll hear Brendan speak first. The episode was recorded at the Phantom Ranger Station at the bottom of Grand Canyon, so you’ll hear some radio chatter in the background. Enjoy the episode. Brendan: All right, go. What different jobs do you have that people may not be aware of? Kate: Helicopter crew member. Jacob: Leave no trace trainer. Kate: Climbing Ranger. Jacob: Swift Water rescue technician. Kate: Victim Witness services coordinator. Jacob: Wildland firefighter. Kate: Shoe repairer, backpack repairer. Brendan: Cobbler? Kate: Cobbler, that’s it! [laughing] Jacob: Um, we didn’t cover this, but informal interpreter. Brendan: Yeah, I would say, yeah, I would say it's a huge part of your job. Jacob: Or actually along those lines I'm also a language interpreter. Brendan: Yeah, you are a language interpreter. For Mandarin? Jacob: For Mandarin, yeah. Kate: Sanitation worker. Brendan: Yes, didn't you? Weren't you nominated for an award for cleaning toilets? Kate: I got a fake award. Brendan: Oh yeah. Kate: Decorated with gilded toilet paper. Yeah. Jacob: Oh, that's pretty official. That's amazing. OK. Kate: Yeah, it’s in my file. [laughing] Kate: Yeah, my employee file. Kate: Oh. Emergency medical technician, yeah. Jacob: I would say also trail worker. Trail maintenance, if you will. Kate: Acting search and rescue coordinator. Jacob: What are we missing? Oh, high angle rescue technician. Brendan: I would say you're also cooks. I've seen both of you cook a lot of food for a lot of people. Kate: Lot of ramen, yeah. Brendan: A lot of ramen. Jacob: Yeah, this is true. Kate: Um, emotional caregiver. Brendan: I think that's probably the biggest thing. I would say, cheerleader for you too. Jacob: Yeah, for sure. Brendan: You can get out. You can do it! Kate: We would, I would say I'm a resource technician. I try to do like archaeological monitoring or report paleontology or yup. Brendan: I bet there's more, but I, oh you got one more? Jacob: I got one more. I'm trying to think how you would word this a, swearer in of Junior Rangers? Kate: Yeah Jacob: How would you say that? Brendan: Are you deputizing them? Jacob: Yeah. So maybe like, sheriff of the Junior Rangers. Brendan: Or a master of ceremonies? Well, I think I've seen both of you like you just were out doing like emergency medical technician stuff or like, had a law enforcement contact and you walk into the station without missing a beat. There's Junior Rangers and you're like, boom, swearing in. I'm like, how do they do that? It’s like two different parts of your brain. [laughing] Brendan: All right. So, what is an example of when something funny happened from wearing too many hats? Jacob: So yeah, so this actually refers back to my previous park, which was Death Valley. Hottest place on the planet. And yeah, it's really hot. So, one of the things that goes on there is that, you know, because the valley that would imply that it's walled in by mountains on either side so, in terms of fires that occur in that park, with it being Death Valley and not a lot of vegetation and burn, it's usually cars or vehicles that burn either coming into the valley because they're burning up their brakes or coming out of the valley because they're burning up their engines. So, all the Rangers there are in addition to law enforcement, EMS and such, there are also structure firefighters. And structure firefighting obviously involves a lot of training to keep up your skills. So, there's one day where all of us were gathered together and we were training with the fire engines. You know, flowing water from the hydrants and just practicing evolutions which is, you know, pulling the hose off and charging them with water and then spraying on a fake fire and all that. So, if you picture the entire on duty staff of Death Valley National Park, so that would be something on the order of like 10 or 12 Rangers, all in their firefighter turnouts, which you never get unless you're in training or on a real fire, and then suddenly out of the blue dispatch calls and says, hey, there's a car burning about 12 miles away, and we all just look at each other and we're like, hey, we’re ready to go. And there's a there's a in unison: “Yay!” And we all just. [laughing] Jacob: Just jumped in the fire engine and of course you know you couldn't all fit in the fire engine, but yeah, we all jumped in the appropriate number of vehicles and our response time to that fire was probably the fastest you'd ever get at Death Valley because everyone was already ready to go. And then of course immediately afterwards we all switched back into our regular Park ranger uniforms and go about our business. That was one fun instance where, you know you're a Park ranger. You actually dressed in the perform your, you’re a park ranger, but you're actually for an hour or two during this day, dressed as a firefighter, and that just so happened to be exactly what was needed at the right time. Kate: Lucky hat. You had the lucky hat on. Yeah. [laughing] Jacob: Yeah, we had the lucky hats on. Brendan: Are you? I do want to hear from you as well, Kate. But are you two like me, where you forget you're in uniform sometimes? And then I well, in my role, I go up to someone like start telling them about lizards and they’re like who is this weird person? Jacob: Oh, like when you’re not in uniform? Brendan: Yeah, because I forget I'm not, I'm not in uniform. I'm not identifiable. But you know. Kate: I'm acutely aware of the ten pounds of defensive equipment on my waist when I'm not wearing my duty gear, I'm like not working. Jacob: Yeah, I would. I would second that. I think it's not just the weight, but you know, it's just. I think when I take the uniform off. It's I can relax a bit and that just extends into whatever I'm doing when I’m not at work. Kate: Yeah. Well, I think one thing too that I realized is that I see all of the things that I as a professional should be concerned about. But you know, we see them all the time. And so, on my days off, when I'm not in the place that I work or. Not it's. I still see all of the safety issues that need addressed and you have to really stop and think about like, what is the right thing to do? Like, will I be safe if I interject myself into something? Do I need to call somebody else who's ready to respond to this safety thing here? And as a Park ranger, we have to know a lot about the things that we need to do to take good care of this place and ourselves in it. And I think it's really important to not be that you know citizen out at the climbing area who is just in everybody's business about everything that they're doing wrong in in the minutiae. Like I, you know, it's you just have to let some things go and really weigh what it's worth. Like there's been a fire ban, and I found multiple fires out on the National Forest and you know it's. You have to think you have to really weigh the risk. Like what? What's the benefit of taking action when you're not working? Jacob: And that actually goes towards a tendency, at least among visitor and resource protection rangers, that can be kind of dangerous in terms of our mental and emotional health in that, at the end of the day, we need to recognize that this is still, it's just a job. It's not our identity. And it's not, it doesn't define us. So, I've seen I was a victim of this when I was a lot younger too. Rangers, for whom this job becomes their identity and defines them, and it takes over their life, both while they're working technically on the clock, but also whether or not working. So, it's good to consciously create that separation between work and not work in that instance because we, I think for most Park rangers a lot of us do a lot of the same things while we're not working. Brendan: Like, you still you still hike, you still climb and you're still out here? Yeah. Jacob: We still spend time out in the outdoors. Yeah, even if it's not in our own park. But we still, by virtue of being Park rangers, recognize what's allowed and what's not allowed in terms of regulations, wherever we may be. And so yeah, it's like Kate said, you have to be cognizant of that and balance the balance, the benefits versus the disadvantages of speaking up or acting, and I think as time has passed, I recognize more and more the value of non-acting while I'm not in uniform in order to preserve or sustain my mental emotional health. Kate: Absolutely: Jacob: And that's something that I’ll just say, like, that's something one of my, my actually, my very first supervisor in this job kept stressing and I never figured it out till, well, after she retired, so I figured out eventually. But yeah, it's something that younger rangers I think definitely need to watch out for or at least be coached by more experienced Rangers to be cognizant o...
Transcribe →Learning from Landscapes with Steve Bridgehouse
Jun 1500:58:26Tap to summarizeIf you’ve gotten a backpacking permit on the North Rim in the last decade, chances are you’ve talked to Steve Bridgehouse. Steve has worked at Grand Canyon in many capacities for the last 25 years. In this episode, Steve reflects on his Grand Canyon mentors, how he connects to landscape, and how he went from sitting in traffic in Washington DC to watching his roommate fall through the floor of their park housing at Big Bend. ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Jesse: Hey, this is Jesse. Today on the podcast, we're featuring an interview with North Rim backcountry ranger Steve Bridgehouse. Steve's had a long Park Service career, including 22 years here at Grand Canyon. We talk about his journey to the Park Service, his experience in the backcountry at Grand Canyon, and much more. Enjoy the episode. Jesse: Maybe we'll just start with an introduction. Can you tell, for folks listening, what your name is, what your role is here at the North Rim and how long you've been in this position? Steve: Yeah, I'm Steve Bridgehouse. I'm a long time backcountry ranger at the Grand Canyon. I think I've been doing the backcountry ranger thing at Grand Canyon maybe 22 years. And uh, this is one of the 12 different parks that I've worked in. So, but Grand Canyon has felt like home for a very long time. Jesse: Yeah. Yeah. 22 years is a long time to be in, be in one place. Well, I want to kind of dig into sort of how you got here. But first let's let's just start with, like early, like, do you do you remember the first time you had a significant or memorable outdoor experience? Steve: Well, I grew up in the southwest. I'm from El Paso, and, my dad retired out of the Army in El Paso. And my mom is German. And so, you know, she left, a very cloudy place and moved to the southwest. And so the first thing we did was set about seeing all the national parks and visiting all these great public lands. And I don't know if it was my first visit to the Grand Canyon, but when I was a young, early teen, I remember doing what a lot of early teens do. I remember walking down to have a Havasupai Gardens and, and, with my family, my mom and dad and, you know, my parents wanted to turn around, of course. And so I was, I was, I remember handing my mom the water bottle and saying, I'm going to go a little further and I'll catch up with you, you know. And so that's probably not an uncommon experience, but it it kind of speaks to the, to the nature of Grand Canyon if it's gravity or whatnot, but it just pulls people in and we just all want to see more and experience more and go for a longer hike. Whether that's a good idea or not. Jesse: Yeah. That's funny. My my first like, real hike at Grand Canyon was also to Havasupai Gardens., yeah, when I was a little kid with my with my dad. We also, that is that story we hear a lot with, like, kids wanting to or people generally wanting to hike farther than the rest of their group. And it doesn't always end up great, but it seems like it went well for you so. Steve: It did, you know, and I think, that was an early seed being planted and I, I think I just got the impression then that, well, you know, I was just behaving like anybody does. And people do this all the time, and people come back to the campground and say, I'm sorry, I was supposed to check out four hours ago, but I got pulled in, and, you know, it happens. Jesse: Yeah. The Grand Canyon does that to you, it pulls you in, sometimes for 22 years. Steve: Yeah. Jesse: Um. So I'm curious, like from from those kind of earlier formative experiences, how did you make your way to the Park Service? Steve: Well, when I was, when I was visiting all these parks, I knew at a very young age I was going to be a park ranger. And I didn't exactly know, looking back now, I didn't exactly know what that was, but I, I knew when I was in high school that I was going to be a ranger. I knew in college I was going to be a ranger. So I thought, you know, all these rangers, the rangers I see, you know, they're they're educators. They're people who have a science background or a history history background. And so I thought, and they all seem to be good communicators. And so I studied communications and journalism and I studied science and geology. And I just thought this is the best way I can prepare myself for this. Jesse: Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. It sounds like those trips to national parks gave you the idea that you could be a ranger. Like, I feel like a lot of people I talk to, you don't know that it's a career option or, you know, even people that that I've hired into positions are like, oh, I never really knew that this could really be a career option. Steve: Yeah. And I think even even parks, visiting parks sometimes is out of reach for people. And, you know, one great thing about national parks and public lands is that everybody's welcome, right. And so I felt like I had a chance. And people told me, prepare yourself for the challenges ahead, and it's going to take a very long time to get it permanently. And you'll probably give up before then. But as soon as I got out of college, I was applying to jobs and a lot of jobs. I was sending out applications to everybody, and I finally got picked up and, and, worked a handful of parks. And as you get that experience and you can communicate and show, yeah, I can do these things and be trusted, it grew into a career. And it's been, I can't imagine having done anything else. You know, if I had to walk away today, I would have to reinvent myself, and that sounds like a lot. Jesse: Yeah, yeah. You're in too deep at this point. Yeah. Well, so speaking of kind of those first Park Service jobs, where where was your first one? How did that, how was that experience for you? Steve: It was great. You know, I started volunteering when I was in college at the University of Texas, El Paso, and we have Chamizal National Memorial there. And I think that what I value about that time is that what was on display there and what was happening there was, you know, very real, you know, showing of, of culture. Like, the culture that was happening in El Paso contemporary when I was there is what was being celebrated there, you know. And so, you know, I was I was doing stuff like being a doorman in the theater for Ballet Folklorico or, you know, or, you know, all these things that were really important to the El Paso community were taking place. And it kind of laid a framework for seeing culture as a resource. And, and, the culture today has its history and that's one of these things that it was that that was, being shown there. And that's really meaningful, you know, to be able to think of the living culture today, having come from something where so many people might see parks today as the preservers of culture and history. And there it was, the very living history was on display. And then you could learn more about the history if you want it to. So it's a very contemporary, way of seeing culture. And, I think it was a great way to start. Jesse: Yeah, yeah. Especially in your own community. I think it's pretty rare that you're able to work for the Park Service or volunteer for the Park Service in your own community. Often you have to travel, like pretty far to do that. Steve: Yeah. And also, you know, your career, you can't just, snap your fingers and say, well, I'm going to become a ranger at Yellowstone. You know, I ended up going into Washington, DC and and working at the old Post Office Tower. And, you know, that's not some place I would have found myself working. But the Park Service has taken me to a lot of places I probably never would have lived and being part of communities I never would have been part of. So the Park Service for me has certainly been a a door that's opened and show me, it's really created. My entire adult life. Jesse: Wow, um I'm curious like what, what sorts of formative experiences you've had in the Park Service? Steve: Well, you know, every one of these resources is so different. You know, starting off at a memorial and going into a historic site, you know, suddenly I'm finding myself covering Ford's Theater and the Petersen Home where Lincoln was shot and where Lincoln died. You know, that's some place I probably would have visited once in my lifetime. And then suddenly I find myself working there. When I left Washington, DC, I really wanted to be back out west, and, I ended up in Big Bend, you know, being a fee collector and Big Bend and, what an incredible wilderness that is. And it was a much quieter part then, and, just getting into a place like that, I remember, camping out there and thinking, you know, since it's right on the Mexican border, there's not a lot of commercial flyovers and air flights over it. And I started to see the the sky as a resource. You know, I don't think I'd ever really considered the sky a resource. And then I was seeing the darkest night skies I've ever seen, you know, but there were a lot of things that I love about being in Big Bend and, and, you know, just having a six month window there and hoping. Well, one day I hope I get to come back and work here. And then it's in the past and I haven't worked back there since, but every one of these resources has been great. Jesse: Well, I'm curious, you know, you went you said you went from DC to Big Bend. Steve: Yeah. Jesse: What was that transition like? Steve: It was massive. You know, going from sitting in traffic to going to the to the park resources. You know, being in DC had incredible opportunities. You know, I would get invited to things, you know, to go go to the interior building, for example. And, and I remember one time someone said, hey, someone's written a book about the Park Service, so we need someone to go there. And I was sent there, and it turned out to be the, memorial service ...
Transcribe →The Balancing Act with Joëlle Baird
May 11, 202500:35:16Tap to summarizeListen in as we take a few moments to learn more about Joëlle Baird, a working mother in a high profile position in the park. Learn about her challenges and what it is like to raise children at the Grand Canyon. ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Sounds of children playing. Joëlle: Girls… Dave: Hi this is Ranger Dave. I'm sitting here talking to Joëlle Baird. And Joëlle can you tell us about what you do in the park? Joëlle: Yeah. So I am the public affairs officer for Grand Canyon National Park. Dave: Okay. And how long have you been doing that role? Joëlle: Yeah. So I have been in the role I'm in of in public affairs for the last four years, pretty much since the very beginning of the pandemic. But I've been at Grand Canyon for now, 13 years. Dave: How did you get to this point in your career? One doesn't just become a PIO overnight. Joëlle: Yeah. So another way to think about it, public affairs officer or public information officer sometimes those terms are used interchangeably, but it has been a not a linear path I'll say. Like so many people in the Park Service who get into this, it sometimes takes a little while to kind of find your niche. And really, there's so many jobs in the Park Service that I have had and experiences. So I actually started out in high school with the Student Conservation Association doing trail work. That's that was my entry into the Park Service back in 2005. And since then, I've had a variety of jobs working in vegetation, and EMS and search and rescue, law enforcement, and eventually find myself in public affairs. So it has been a winding path, to say the least. Dave: Yeah. Do you feel like all the different jobs kind of culminated to this one? Or do you pull from all those different experiences. Joëlle: I definitely pull from all the experiences and I think that has really lended itself well to being a public information officer, especially at a park like this, where there's so many different jobs and divisions. And so I really rely on those experiences and lean into those quite often when I'm talking and providing information to the general public. Since I have had those variety of experiences, I think it's really led me to be a good PIO and understand the park in a more holistic way. Dave: Okay do you feel like there are any special skills that you need to be a PIO? Joëlle: Yeah, I think one of the big ones that I, is probably the most cornerstone is just strong writing skills. You know, it is something that I fortunately had a lot of experience early on with being a strong writer, and I would say just being comfortable talking to the public also. So a lot of times, PIOs, you know, they might come in the Park Service from the interpretation background that really lends itself to talking with the public, but really just a general comfort with talking to the public and also being really aware and well-versed on the different types of issues that you're communicating. So in Grand Canyon National Park, we have a number of issues that have high media interest and a lot of public interest as well. So you do need to be briefed on those issues and fully understand the complexity of them when talking to the public or with media outlets, that kind of thing. Dave: How did you get the skills that you need to get to this role? Joëlle: A lot of it is just been on the job training and it definitely helps being in a place for a while. So being here in Grand Canyon for 13 years, you start to learn more about the place and its complexities and the issues around it. So I'd say a lot of the skills I've learned have just been being here in the park for as long as I have and being willing and open to learn, also, from the experts here in the park. I heavily rely on subject matter experts to help me understand issues that, and try to communicate in a clear way to the public on some of the issues. Dave: Okay so I heard recently that you went to grad school. I'm curious about what led you to the to make that choice. At that time, I know you're working full time at the same time, so that's got to be complicated. Joëlle: Yeah, yeah, I knew I wanted to go back to school. My undergrad and a lot of my background is in science. I graduated in forestry and really I felt like I kind of needed more in terms of my education background. So I just graduated this last spring with a master's in communications from Arizona State University, and that's been a great experience. And the cool thing about that is I was able to take a lot of my work and apply it to my grad school studies. So it was very integrative of what I'm already doing here on the job, but also learning through practical experience as I went through the program. Dave: So in the park you work in a very high profile job. I would say this is one of the most public facing parks in our country. Are there many PIO jobs in the NPS that are like this? Joëlle: Not really. They're pretty few and far between For folks who are interested in going into this career field, It is the, what's called the 1035 series, which is public affairs. So many federal agencies have jobs like this. The Park Service, though, doesn't have a lot There's only probably about 50 in the entire agency. And a lot of that is because public affairs and public information is often a collateral duty for in the interpretation division. It's only those bigger parks that might be more high profile or have more visitation that have a dedicated public information officer or public affairs officer. So the big parks like we think of, you know, the Y parks, Grand Canyon, the big parks, I would say. Dave: So with like only 50 people doing this. How many women are in these roles? Joëlle: Yeah, it's actually predominantly women in in public information and public affairs, not entirely sure why that is. But yeah, there is also a regional and kind of a national office too, in terms of public affairs with the National Park Service, so there are you dedicated park PIOs, but there's also a support system, if you will, of regional public affairs specialist as well as at the national the Washington office level for the National Park Service. Dave: So if you do need help, you have someone else to talk to. I hope, so yeah. Joëlle: Exactly. Yeah. That's been a huge reliance that is great to have and just people, when things happen that go sideways in the park that we weren't expecting, we can rely and call on the regional or the Washington office for that kind of support. Dave: Okay. Do you find that you're collaborating with other PIOs in other parks at times too? Joëlle: Absolutely. The issues that we have here in Grand Canyon, a lot of them aren't unique to Grand Canyon. So, for example, Colorado River issues. The Colorado River spans across multiple parks. So having good working relationships with Glen Canyon, Lake Mead, that's hugely important. Zion National Park actually has around the same visitation levels that we do, and a lot of the same challenges with managing visitors in high volume and popular park here in the Southwest. So I really like working with Zion. I think that park is very closely related to some of the issues that we have here. Dave: Okay. If folks wanted to someday become a public information officer, you know, what do you think the easiest route is to maybe get a job like yours? Joëlle: Mhm. So with public information, a lot of people get into it from the fire ranks. So the U.S. Forest Service, as well as the Park Service, there's a huge need for wildland fire public information officers, especially in the western states. Fire is all around us, especially during fire season. So there is a need to be a qualified fire public information officer. There's a lot of kind of, I would say, easy ramps to get into it from the fire PIO realm into the Park Service, into other federal agencies. So the Job series is the 1035 public affairs officer, or public information officer. There are a lot of jobs and other agencies that are open, it would be surprising. I mean, the U.S. Mint and the, you know, the IRS as public affairs specialists. So a lot of people get into it from other agencies and then transfer to the National Park Service. But really, it's just getting firsthand experience at really any agency. Wildland fire is an easy avenue just because fires are always happening and they always need people to communicate with the public on the issues. And it can be a great way to also understand from kind of an incident management side of the house, because that is a big job and a key piece of what I do day in and day out is be a part of incident management teams that are coordinated and highly structured. So working within any type of incident management team in any role, you know that that can also be an easy way to get experience, to understand what a PIO does day in and day out. Dave: Okay. Yeah, and probably learn some of the challenges to prepared. Joëlle: Absolutely. Yeah. And if individuals have comfort in speaking with the media and being on camera and a lot a lot of people come from actually the journalism ranks, a lot of former journalists are coming to the world of public information with government agencies with that background too. So there's quite a few avenues in terms of entry into the job series. Dave: Okay, great. What are the demands of the job? Like, what's your kind of day to day? What's the pressure like? Joëlle: Yeah, so in general, every day is a little bit different and that's because things are ever evolving. So there is a large portion of the job that is reactive in nature. There's a lot that happens here with search and rescues in Grand Canyon, but also just things happening in the park. So any given day, I don't entirely know what's going to be on my plate. Sometimes there's a major incident tha...
Transcribe →First Voices - Ed Kabotie
Apr 13, 202500:39:15Tap to summarizeEd Kabotie is an artist, musician, and educator from the Hopi village of Shungopavi and the Tewa village of Santa Clara. Join us on this episode of Behind the Scenery and hear Ed discuss his work, his connection to the Grand Canyon, and the messaging in his music. You can find his work on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. ---TRANSCRIPT:--- [Flute Music] ALICIA: That was Ed Kabotie playing the flute here on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. My name is Alicia and I’m a ranger here at Grand Canyon National Park. In early September 2024, I had the opportunity to sit down with Ed and talk about his work as an artist, musician, and educator. We sat on a picnic table outside of the cabin where he stayed, surrounded by late-season wildflowers and towering ponderosa pines. In this episode, you'll hear some occasional noise from the wind. If you listen closely, you might also hear birds chirping and the sound of pinecones dropping from the ponderosas around us. Thanks for joining us today. ALICIA: Really grateful that you came out to the park today, so thank you so much for being here. ED: Yeah, absolutely. I'm so grateful. Yeah. Love this place. Super beautiful today. Love to hear the pinecones dropping all over the place. ALICIA: Yeah. So, Ed you're a multifaceted creative, right, a multi-talented artist. You're a musician, an educator, and I know you have a family history in art, too. So can you tell us a little bit about your background as an artist and how it connects with your work today. ED: Wow, that's a big question. When I, when I hear the reference to family, I think back to my grandfather, you know? So my great grandfather, Lolomayaoma was arrested in 1906 for refusing to send my grandfather to school. He was six years old at the time. This was a, you know, boarding school in Pennsylvania. So I mean, 1000 miles away, kill the Indian, save the man. Of course he resisted, you know, and he was put in prison for his resistance. My grandfather actually ran away from school till he was 15 and then he was sent to Santa Fe Indian School, which is the same boarding school I graduated from, as well. But Santa Fe Indian School has an interesting history of its own type of renegade resistance. You know, Dorothy Dunn-style studio art, well known in Indian art that comes later. My grandfather was there during the DeHuff administration and Principal, or Superintendent, rather, DeHuff was demoted from the Indian Service because he and his wife were encouraging, you know, the children in their culture rather than, you know, trying to extinguish it. My grandfather was singled out along with two other artists, Otis from Shongopovi and then Velino Shije from Zia Pueblo and those three as vocational training were actually given exposure to techniques in art, and so my grandfather began a journey there. He's kind of a world-renowned kind of guy. You know, he's known at the Grand Canyon for the Watchtower murals, which were done in 1932. That's not typically his style, you know, he went, he reverted to kind of an ancient style of art with the watchtower murals. His art journey is just incredible. He was a Guggenheim Fellow, and he also was instrumental in the development of the overlay techniques in Hopi. He spearheaded the development of the Guild, which trained silversmiths, 60s, 70s, 80s in Hopi. He was very involved with the establishment of the Hopi Cultural Center as well, so. He was a U.S. ambassador to India, you know, Goodwill Ambassador, Agricultural Summit. He was commissioned by Mrs. Roosevelt to do a piece of work when she visited him at the Peabody Museum at Harvard during one of their openings. It's a really remarkable journey that he had. I, I never knew him as an artist. I knew him as a hard-ass Hopi farmer, you know? But my father was, of course, very engaged in art, as well. And so I'm a third-generation artist. My father, I would say, is probably my biggest inspiration, kind of in an abstract way. I mean, I think my dad did not want to follow in his father's footsteps. I don't want to follow in my dad's footsteps. I think we all try to be very distinct in our journeys. But there's that process of osmosis that takes place when you're in an artist's home and you know the work is being done. You know, I can hear my dad's saw blade going, you know, as he would make jewelry, singing songs, listening to songs, humming kachina songs, you know, just as he would work. You know? So it was a it was a very, very special atmosphere and I think that nurtured me in my work. There's a number of things that brought me to the place. In my own personal expression, music and art have played a big part of my journey, and music tends to be my forte not necessarily by choice. I love, I love the serenity of creating visual art. There's something about it that I have to be in a good place to do it and it's something that I long for to be in places like this, honestly, this is this is where I generate artwork. ALICIA: Yeah. I wanted to ask where you where you draw inspiration for your songwriting, which I guess is you said places like this. Where else do you do you draw inspiration for your your art and your music? ED: I draw inspiration from indigenous history. I draw inspiration from my culture. I draw inspiration from a lot of the negative that I see around me in the history of my people, in our relationship with the United States government, you know both past and present. So I think sometimes people refer to me as an activist, which I, I tend to resist that concept because I feel like an activist is active, you know? I mean, my vibe is like, yo, we all just need to slow down. You know, we, we need to come to a place where we can be in spaces like this to listen to the rhythm of nature, how it connects with the rhythm of our spirit. And find a way to think consciously again. You know, if I feel like that's, the biggest problems that we have in this world are, they need a spiritual solution. And I hope that somehow through my art and music, I'm able to elevate my thinking and hopefully maybe other people's thinking at the same time about conscious thought regarding environmental social justice issues on the Colorado Plateau, Grand Canyon Region, and also in the world in general. ALICIA: When you look back at your time that you've been creating music or creating art, do you think your, your style has changed? Maybe the content of your music or the style of your music, or? ED: Absolutely. I mean, in regards to music I feel like my journey as a musician started in my home communities. I feel like everybody's a musician where I come from; from the time you're a child, you know, everybody's introduced to song, everybody's introduced to dance as a form of prayer, and as a form of interacting with the universe. And that also crosses over to visual art, as well. I was exposed to rock music via a Native American band called XIT, X-I-T, who was on Motown Records like between 1970 and 1972, and they put out a couple of amazing albums, one called Plight of the Redman, one called Silent Warrior, and they were very aggressive in their message. I, I mean think back what was happening in Native America in 1970, 1972 that's the takeover of Alcatraz, that's the takeover of Wounded Knee. That's the American Indian Movement, you know, taking over BIA offices in Washington, I mean, all of that was kind of expressed in the spirit of their music. When I got into boarding school, I you know, metal was kind of communicating to me and a lot of us because I think, as third generation boarding school students, we were all pretty pissed off, you know? And it made a lot of sense. When I, when I heard reggae, I recognized that reggae was like very angry music, you know? And I'm talking about Jamaican reggae, Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, Bunny Wailer, you know, those old school guys. And their message was very aggressive as well, a cry for justice for 400 years of oppression. And sometimes when I would listen to the music of Bob Marley, it would just feel like he was singing about me, you know? I got homesick after living off the reservation some years down the road after high school. I was a drummer in music originally, that's kind of my passion, but I always kind of continued carrying a guitar. I left music just because it was difficult for me separate some of the dysfunctional things that follow rock'n'roll, you know? And I started a family very young, so, you know, I, I felt like it was wise for me to put away, you know, the drum kit. But of course, you know, it's you can't, you can't keep music out of your brain, you know, or out of your heart when it's there. And, you know, I'm always tapping on everything and, you know, fiddling with guitar. And out of homesickness, I began to sing more traditional style melodies in Hopi and Tewa and translate it into guitar. That's the way my original music started. You know, the original recordings of original music and it was very history-focused. I thought a lot about my kids. I thought a lot about youth growing up on the reservations. You know, I wanted them to hear their music. I wanted to them hear, for them to hear stories about their heroes, you know? And that's kind of the way it took off. I got arrested in Coconino County for marijuana possession. You know, at a at a time that that the state of Arizona was like, very aggressively against it, right? And so like, for less than a gram of marijuana. I was. I was charged with felony possession, felony paraphernalia, blah blah la la la. When I got arrested, you know, I, you know, I heard I've heard about my people talking about being careful about border towns all my life. I never had a problem personally until then. You know, and now I'm in jail, facing prison time, and I'm looking at everybody else who's in jail and we're looking like 80% Native American. And today in Flagstaff, and this is not ...
Transcribe →Fire Ecology - The Good, the bad, and the Whole Ecosystem Approach with Lisa Handforth
Mar 16, 202500:39:16Tap to summarizeLisa Handforth serves as the Fire Ecologist at Grand Canyon National Park. In this episode, we explore her role in the park’s fire program and discuss topics like climate, mycorrhizal fungi, and the interconnectedness of ecosystems. Tune in to discover the vital role of fire in Grand Canyon’s forests and the fascinating world of symbiosis! ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Kamryn: Hi! My name is Kamryn and today we're super excited and lucky to be able to speak with Lisa Handforth. Kamryn: Yeah, thanks so much for being here and kind of taking this time to chat and give a talk tomorrow night. Everyone's super excited to be able to hear that. Lisa: Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Kamryn: If you wouldn't mind just letting us know who you are, and we'll get started. Lisa: Yeah, I'm Lisa Markovchick, married named Handforth, Fire Ecologist at Grand Canyon National Park. Kamryn: Awesome. Yeah, can you tell us what that means to be the park’s ecologist? What that looks like here at the Grand Canyon? Lisa: Yeah so I oversee a fire--we call them the Fire Effects crew. We've got 2 permanent staff and three seasonals who are on the ground collecting both short-term project data and long-term ecological monitoring data, particularly as it pertains to our Fire Program. And then they also collaborate with the inventory and monitoring program. That's the long-term ecological monitoring program for our region, for the National Park Service. And then I spend a lot of time also looking at the interaction between fire and all the different parts of the ecosystem. So, working with our Wildlife and Veg program, for example, thinking about invasives, thinking about our endangered species like Mexican spotted owls, sentry milk vetch that we have, and sort of navigating the intricacies of how fire is interacting with all of the different parts of the ecosystem. Kamryn: Cool, super cool. And from what I understand, this is a newer role for you, newer in the Park Service, so can you talk about your journey here and why you decided to get into the Park Service? Lisa: Yeah, I started out in ecology actually up in Seattle, working with volunteers on former Superfund sites to monitor vegetation recovery after restoration projects. And then did a masters in fire ecology in San Diego, looking at some of the endemic plant species and how their life histories interact with fire and are actually dependent on fire. And then worked for the Navy for about a decade, really looking at sort of how the military mission interacts with a lot of our ecology and how to navigate that and make the most of that synergy. And so, we would also look at things like very specific data on microclimate, for example, and how we could leverage that to really help our endangered species and our species at risk. And just, you know, strange things like you think where moving an invasive is a good idea, but there was actually an interaction going on where removing it without providing some of the things that that invasive was now providing to the ecosystem had negative effects on some of our endangered plants and sensitive plants. And so, we're really kind of leveraging that data on the ground to make better decisions and then working with people to help them understand why it was important to protect this plant or this animal, when we also had another mission. And then I really wanted to learn more about our microbiome and how that was playing into things like our wildfire risk and recovery, drought resilience, managing invasives, because we had a lot of wildfire risk reduction activity that we also did on the military lands and a lot of the different pieces of the ecosystem we are trying to address really seemed to interact with the microbiome and we weren't really doing a lot on the ground in response to that new science. And so, I came to Flagstaff to do my PhD in the Gehring Lab at Northern Arizona University and looked at how we can kind of leverage that microbiome along with things like assisted migration in response to climate change and really get a lot more for our efforts out of the management by thinking more about the whole ecosystem. Of things like how it affects plant physiology and their ability to cope with drought or recover after a fire and how that interacts with things like mycorrhizal fungi. And I don't know if I answered all of your questions or not. That was my journey here. But yeah. And then coming to the Park Service honestly has been and is one of the, you know, biggest pleasures and privileges of my life to be called upon to help protect and sort of safeguard and steward these, you know, beautiful places, particularly the, you know, some of the last remaining wild places on the planet. And how amazing they are and to be entrusted to help care for them and work with, you know, other people who are really trying their best to care for them, particularly in, you know, the age that we're in with climate change starting to affect a lot of things. Kamryn: Yeah, yeah. That's great. Thanks. What have you enjoyed most about your work so far and where do you hope to see the park’s Fire Program going in the next years or phases? Lisa: Yeah. I mean, so far, I, you know, I just started with the Park Service in February, so I've just been enjoying getting to know this amazing place, in addition to learning more from our fire managers and seeing things, being able to see things more through their eyes. That's been just a great privilege and will help us down the line as we start to look at our data, as well as just getting to know the rest of the team. And so both the folks that I am privileged to mentor and oversee, as well as the larger Grand Canyon team and National Park Service team and all the different things that people are doing. Working hard, you know, with, sort of without, largely without recognition or, you know, agenda, just trying to make sure that we're doing the right things for our park. Yeah. And just seeing everyone's enthusiasm for, for really doing the right thing with regard to managing our lands. As well as getting to know the amazing long term ecological like data set that we have so learning more about what are all the different projects we've done in the past and the innovations that the Fire Program has done in the past and then starting to get into being able to extract like the 30 years of data that we have from the database and get it into some software where we can have a little more flexibility with analyzing it. So that's sort of been an adventure so far, yeah. Kamryn: Yeah. And you started mentioning this with Grand Canyon, these places that are seeing very real threats these days. So what do you think are the biggest challenges facing Grand Canyon's forests, the ecosystems that you're working with? Lisa: Yeah, I mean, really the biggest challenge of our time, right, is probably climate change and how do we come together and help all of our species adapt in the time frame that they will need to. So, you know, if you look at the climate future summary for our park for example, it's very clear that our climate is already warming and that the pace of warming is increasing, that we've already had a 17% increase in the precipitation that's falling during the 1% heaviest events. So more, already being very heavily skewed towards more extreme events and that's you know, we often think of warming and fire and drought, but it's also heavy precipitation or precipitation that's not necessarily falling when the species of plants, animals need it. So that snowpack and the window for how long it lasts is changing. Water is running off faster. So, we're seeing, you know, for example, less moisture sinking into the ground and being there for a longer time and these more extreme events and so that's probably our biggest challenge because and it's all intertwined, right like that is also shifting and diminishing our windows where we can do controlled burns for example. And so biggest challenge for us is thinking about how all those things are connected and how can we really leverage everything we've got in defense of protecting our ecosystems, particularly, you know, these very high elevation, mixed conifer, large snowpack areas in a very arid, you know, within the matrix of a very arid region. Right? And all that that brings to us, including our drinking water. Kamryn: Yeah, yeah. How is the team here working in the face of climate change? How is the team working to kind of maintain these robust ecosystems? Lisa: Yeah. So, we're actually working, the Fire Program and our Science and Resources folks--so that's our Veg and Wildlife Programs for example--we have a joint effort currently to really start digging into our climate change planning. So, we're spearheading, sort of taking those climate future summaries, that sort of layout--what the meteorological expectations are, right, and climate expectations are and then sort of moving forward from there of how do we maybe need to refine our goals and our strategies? What does the best available science say about the different strategies and their relative risks and advantages? And then also we're taking another look at how--what can our data that we already have tell us about how we've already been affected. You know, are we seeing places that used to be dominated by ponderosa pine now having maybe more pinyon juniper, for example? So that's something I'll be looking at, for example, over the winter as we start to delve into really analyzing that data that we have to try and figure out if what changes we're already seeing from a species perspective and if that, you know, what are the implications for our management. For example, if we’re looking at prescribed fire and how to manage, what is that optimal interval? Maybe if it used to be ponderosa pine and it's moving more towards pinyon juniper, that interval may b...
Transcribe →Brave the Wild River with Melissa Sevigny
Feb 2, 202500:24:11Tap to summarizeWould you go down the Colorado river in a couple of homemade rowboats with a guide that had never been down the river? That is exactly what two women botanists from the University of Michigan did in 1938 to become the first women known to have travel 600 miles/965 kilometers down the Colorado river through the Grand Canyon. Want to know more? Stay tuned…. Brave the Wild River podcast is now available on the Behind the Scenery Podcast series. ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Wallis: Hi this is Wallis, and today we are featuring an interview with Melissa Sevigny, award winning author in her spare time and science reporter for KNAU in Flagstaff. In this episode Melissa will tell us about her career path and how she went from wanting to be a geologist to working as a science reporter and writing an award winning book. Wallis: Ok, well we are here today with Melissa Sevigny, author, science reporter and let’s get started. Hey Melissa, Melissa: So great to be here. Wallis: So great to have you here. A lot of interview questions are the kinds of things that you might expect. A sort of letting our listeners get to know you so let’s do a few of those questions. I see from your bio that you started out with a degree in Environmental Science and Policy but now you are an award-winning writer and journalist. Was writing something you always wanted to do? Melissa: You know, not really, actually which is funny um I have always written things ever since I was a little girl but I always wanted to be a geologist. That, that was my dream. Um and so I stuck with that all the way up until I enrolled in the university of Arizona and I enrolled in an Environmental Science degree which I figured would be geology with some trees added on top you know but somewhere along the way I just I can’t even describe it I got pulled away by writing I just kept taking more and more writing classes and taking jobs that helped me learn how to communicate science to the public and it kind of just stole me away it was not intentional. I never imagined I would be a writer but somehow here I am. Wallis: But there you are. So I have a follow-on question to that is tell us a little bit how you went from environmental science to the MFA program at Iowa State University and from there to being a science reporter for KNAU? Melissa: You know it’s not a very exciting story. When I was applying for grad schools I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I had ended up with a double major in environmental science and creative writing and I was sort of stuck between those 2 loves and so I applied for a bunch of programs some in sciences and some in writing and some in science writing and I really didn’t know what I was doing and uh the program that had full funding was this environmental creative writing program at Iowa State University and so that is where I ended up. Um I think it is good to share that story with young people who feel like maybe they need to know what their path is gonna be like. I had no idea what I was doing. I went and got that creative writing degree, I graduated, I was unemployed. I didn’t know what to do with that degree. it was such a weird mix of skills I had kind of cultivated and then this job came up for a science reporter for the NPR station in Flagstaff and I wanted to come back home to Arizona, this is where I grew up so I applied a little bit on a whim. I didn’t know if I was qualified or if I could get the job um but I did and I’ve been there 10 years and it has really taught me a lot about uh talking about science to the public. Wallis: That’s very interesting and so like many people you didn’t have a direct career path but you just kind of followed your heart. Melissa: Exactly yeah. Wallis: Well what makes communicating science exciting and challenging right now? So as both an author and a science reporter for KNAU what differences do you see in the various mediums of science communication? And what methods do you think are most effective? Melissa: That is such an interesting question because there are so many more methods now than even when I was little you know um there is social media and there’s video and there are podcasts like this one. There is just so many wonderful ways to reach out to people and I think the most effective way is the way that works for the audience you want to reach. I mean I think they all, they all can work for different people um and so I am glad there is people out there doing all of those kinds of things. You know the kind of person who would pick up a book like you know what I have written um isn’t the same kind of person who is going to listen to a podcast or listen to a video on YouTube so it it is an exciting time. There is a lot of different ways to communicate science and for me maybe the most exciting thing is just that science is exciting and my goal is to make it as accessible as possible. I want people to feel like they can do science, they can be scientists. It doesn’t matter what your background is or your age is. You don’t have to be this image of uh a wild haired genius locked away in an ivory tower someplace. That is not what a scientist is. You know, really it boils down to if you are curious and observing the world around you and all of us do that naturally as kids you know and it is something we sort of grow out of and so my goal with communication is to show people how exciting it is to tap into that curiosity. Wallis: Great! Let’s move on. Now your book Brave the Wild River was published last year and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it this spring. This wonderful book, in case you don’t know, was the 2024 Southwest book of the year top pick, a 2024 Reading the West Award for memoir/biography, and the 2023 National outdoor book award for history/biography. Now as a woman scientist I am always interested in the women scientists who came before me. So, the questions I would like to ask you are how did you learn about or get interested in Elzada Clover and Lois Jotter? And sort of a follow on to that would be what spurred your interest in the women and why did you think this was an important or timely story you thought needed to be told? Melissa: I really just stumbled across their story. I was looking for something else I don’t remember what it was and I was fishing around online at the special collections department at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff and this um this hyperlink popped up and it said women botanists. And I was curious so I clicked on it and there was just one name in the file and the name was Lois Jotter and I read the description and I learned that she had gone down the Colorado river through Grand Canyon in 1938 with her mentor Elzada Clover and they were both botanists from Michigan and they made the first formal plant collection of over 600 miles of the Colorado river and I was so surprised that I had never heard of them before. You know I grew up in Arizona, I thought I knew a lot about Colorado river history and yet I had never encountered their names. And so I just started started poking around um Lois was a packrat she kept all kinds of material, her diaries, her letters from this trip and that was all at Northern Arizona University and so I started going over there on my lunch breaks and just kind of like looking around in the story and I got so drawn into it and eventually I started to write and pretty soon I realized that I had I had a book. I was writing a book um it took me a while to come to that realization but I was just really drawn to their story exactly for the reason you said. You know it’s amazing to hear about the women scientists that have come before us. There are so many of them out there but often their stories kind of get lost. They sort of fall through the cracks and so I wanted to to bring this story kind of back to the forefront so that when people are coming to places like the Grand Canyon or they are interested in doing science. You know I think I think it makes us feel a little less alone when we see people like ourselves throughout history who were doing that work. Wallis: Oh I agree I uh used this book as a basis for several programs and at my last program I had a woman who was a graduate student in botany and she was with her family and her mother said do you know about these women and she said I had never heard of them. And that was really shocking to me, so I am glad that you found the link and are bringing them forward. Melissa: Thank you. Wallis: Now do you feel there are any special challenges in telling a story that is not well know like this story and we like to call them deferred stories rather than researching and retelling a more dominant narrative? Do you think it is a little harder? Melissa: Yeah that is such a great question I um I hadn’t heard that phrase before, deferred story and I really like that. They are kind of stories that just haven’t quite been told yet for whatever the reason. Um there are challenges with it but I am drawn to that type of story because because I think, I don’t know I just I get really fascinated by stories that that haven’t really been told before at least not in the kind of extensive format, in a book format. Um and so that really draws me in I just I I want to be able to to kind of chart new ground when I am writing, and chart a new path and so that attracted me to this story. Some of the the challenge is just: is the archival material there? When you are doing stories out of history you have gotta have those primary sources, so you have got to have archives and I was really lucky that Lois Jotter and Elzada Clover both kept their diaries. They kept extensive notes and they both had the foresight to donate those to universities before they passed away. And if it wasn’t for that I probably wouldn’t have been able to write the book because I wouldn’t have had their point of vie...
Transcribe →Kaibab Squirrels - Grand Canyon's Most Charismatic Mammal?
Jan 20, 202500:36:37Tap to summarizeWhat are Kaibab squirrels? How rare are they? How can I see one? Join this conversation with Houston Thompson, a wildlife biologist at Grand Canyon, to learn what we know about this special species, what’s still to be discovered, and what makes them so darn cute! ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Houston: You want to go out and see one? You're probably going to need to hike some miles. Maybe go for some drives, and you're just actually going to have to get lucky. Juli: Hey there. I'm Ranger Juli, and I sat down with one of our wildlife biologists to learn more about just one of the many things that make the North Rim of Grand Canyon a special place, Kaibab squirrels. Houston: Yeah. Hello. My name is Houston Thompson. I'm a wildlife biologist here at the Grand Canyon. Working on the North Rim in summers focusing on our Kaibab squirrels, our bison, Mexican spotted owls, and California condors, in addition to a number of other critters. Been here a couple of years and we've been making great strides, especially on some Kaibab squirrel population modeling. And that's what we're here to talk about today, I believe. Juli: Awesome. So what are Kaibab squirrels and why is it important for you guys to be studying them here at Grand Canyon? Houston: So yeah, good question. Kaibab squirrels are one of six subspecies of tassel eared squirrels. Tassel eared squirrels are found from here in Arizona into New Mexico, Colorado, Utah and even down into Mexico. I believe two of the subspecies are in Mexico. The largest range subspecies is the Abert squirrel. And they're what you'd be familiar with on the South Rim. They extend from the South Rim there into New Mexico, Utah and Colorado. There's another subspecies, lives the Rocky Mountain front, the Kaibab squirrel, our special squirrel here on the North Rim, endemic to the North Rim, have one and the smallest ranges of all the subspecies. So, they're very cute, cute squirrel, large white fluffy tail. And they're a fairly large squirrel as well compared to most other rodents you see around. Juli: Can you explain what an endemic species is? Houston: So yeah. An endemic species is a species that's just found in one geographic location, generally an isolated area. And more likely than not, they might have special traits that have allowed them to persist, and kind of evolve in place. So, it's really important for us to study these endemic species, because they can lend some of those special traits that we want to understand that helps them survive in the location they find themselves in. Juli: For Kaibab squirrels, what are some of those traits that make them different from other Abert squirrels? And do you guys know how those traits benefit them here? Houston: So, we know part of that answer at least. So, I mentioned there are six subspecies of this tassel eared squirrel. And they're all a little different. So mostly it's based on their pelage, which is kind of their fur coloration and patterns. So, Kaibab squirrels will have a fully white tail. That's one of the bigger differences. Whereas an Abert squirrel will have kind of a white and black, kind of black underneath. And it's a little more speckled I guess, overall. So, our Kaibab squirrels in the right light just looks like a bunch of snow or something. Their very white tail, very easy to spot on the landscape, that sort of thing. They also have, more often than not, black bellies compared to Abert squirrels that have more white bellies. Although there are actual, there have been some sightings, where that's actually reversed, but it's fairly uncommon. They believe that that change has occurred just because of one gene mutation. So Abert squirrels and Kaibab squirrels and arguably all the other subspecies used to be a little more connected through Ponderosa, and other pine forests that used to be a little more connected. And after long periods of time, some of those pine forest pockets became a little more isolated. And that's how our Kaibab squirrels have found themselves more or less stuck here on an island on the Kaibab Plateau. Juli: So, you said that they're really easy to see because of their white, fluffy tail. But a lot of times visitors are asking, how can they see one? Where can they see one? How rare are they? How many? Do you have any answers to those questions? Any tips for how visitors might have the best chance of seeing a Kaibab squirrel, and what should they do if they see one? Houston: Sure. So, I could go into some history of population, because it's tough. They're, they're kind of a cryptic species arguably, just because they're very quiet. They escape predators by climbing a tree and just going silent. And they're not active throughout the day. I mean, they will be, they'll bounce around, but you just kind of have to catch them at the right time. And you have to be in the right area. So, you need to be one, in pine forests, although even in our mixed conifer, you can run across them here on the North Rim. But they are pine obligates. So normally they're around, on the North Rim here, mainly ponderosa pine. Other areas they'll eat on other pine trees like pinyon, etcetera. So, part of the difficulty in seeing one now is there's just not that many, it seems. But population has always been difficult to determine. There's been biologists working on this for almost a hundred years, and population estimates vary wildly. So back in, like the 1920s, they thought maybe 5 to 10,000 of them were in existence by the 40s, maybe 3000. By around the 70s, maybe one biologist thought 1000, another thought 5 to 10,000. And even more recently, like in the late 80s, something like 22,000 squirrels was the estimate. Juli: Wow, is that all Kaibab squirrels? Houston: Just Kaibab squirrels. So, we've been doing some surveys that have been done historically to try to figure out how many we have. They call it a feed index. So basically, we would set up a grid, a fairly large grid, and you'd go 5 or 10 meters and count how much feed sign you found, and that'd be feed that's dropped from the tree as their feeding. It could be where they're digging up mushrooms, a number of other things as well. So, you'd count how many of those little meters had feed sign and you'd continue doing that throughout the grid. It takes a couple hours to do this, this survey. And then you'd kind of do some math to say, well, how many of those plots out of about 270 had feed, which then you could say over time is feed increasing or decreasing? And they would kind of try to extrapolate that on a landscape level to try to figure out how many squirrels we have. So not simple and I would argue pretty unreliable. So, the last decade or more, we've been doing those feed index grids, and we would just start getting zero feed sign. And we know the squirrels are around, but it's hard to extrapolate how many squirrels you have when all your grids say zero. So, we do know they've been in decline for over a decade. Maybe a fairly stark decline, having worked with the feed index grids. And we have a new kind of novel protocol here for searching for squirrels on the Grand Canyon, I might only speculate several hundred, maybe a thousand squirrels currently on the Kaibab Plateau. Again, it's kind of difficult to put a good number to it, but that's why we're working on it. So, to find the squirrel, if you want to go out and see one, you're probably going to need to hike some miles, maybe go for some drives and you're just actually going to have to get lucky. You could also go where previous people have spotted squirrels. That can be a little more reliable. Last year, for example, we had a pair in the North Rim Campground, so they were just really visible. But even then, you kind of had to get lucky. So, if you find a Kaibab squirrel, we would like to know about it. Because they're so rare currently, we take all sightings from the public and staff. We do our new survey protocol to look for feed sign. And we're building a map of where these squirrels may be. And we're then looking into why are they in the places they are? We're trying to get trends. Are they increasing? Decreasing still? Luckily, I do feel like in the last two years or so, they have been, in fact, increasing just slowly. This fall actually, some anecdotal evidence from the forest suggests maybe they’re rebounding pretty quick, which is definitely possible. They can have 2 or 3 litters a year, and each litter can have 3 to 5 squirrels in it. So, they can proliferate pretty quickly. That said, they're also pretty low on the food chain and they make a tasty snack for a wide number of predators. Historically, goshawks were considered one of their primary predators. With boom and busts of populations we don't seem to have many goshawks around right now either which allows, perhaps, for a quicker rebound. I was mentioning a feed index grid. That's been the historic method for surveying for these squirrels. Our kind of new, more novel method is really just go find the squirrels. So, we just go on hikes looking for a winter feed sign, where we document that. And then we'll actually if we find some feed trees, we will then circle around to try to map out their winter territory, which could be almost 20 acres in size. Having kind of worked through this process, we've also learned that those feed index grids are somewhat biased. You could have a historic grid just that happens to be on, say, a historic winter territory, and so maybe you're just catching sign from one territory year after year and you're not actually getting the bigger picture. And the fluctuation in sign quantity could be more of a factor of how much feed is on the landscape that year. So, maybe I should back up one more moment. These Kaibab squirrels and just tasseled squirrels in general, are the only squirrel species that's really active year-round. So, most squirrels kind of...
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