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Behind the Scenery
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Hidden forces shape our ideas, beliefs, and experiences of Grand Canyon. Join us, as we uncover the stories between the canyon’s colorful walls. Probe the depths, and add your voice for what happens next at Grand Canyon!
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Momma, Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Rangers
Dec 21, 202400:43:20Tap to summarizeDisregarding the tongue-in-cheek podcast title, three Grand Canyon Rangers sit down for a fun roundtable discussion about park ranger work, lifestyles, and stereotypes. There are many perspectives on park ranger life, this episode explores the experience of three individuals. What are some mystiques, myths, and misconceptions about your profession? ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Soft guitar and singing: Momma’s don’t let your babies grow up to be rangers Don’t let them hike trails and camp where there’s dangers Let ‘em be friendly and be kind to strangers Mammas don’t let your babies grow up to be Rangers ‘Cause they’ll never stay home, and they’ll always roam Somewhere its pretty and nice Doug: what are the common myths and images that people have in their mind when you mention that you work for the National Park Service as a ranger? They definitely think I live in a log cabin in the woods. Jesse: We DO live in a log cabin in the woods. Ceili: That’s true! Chuckles ... Ranger Doug: Are there really bears down at the bottom of the Grand Canyon? Do you need a forestry degree to become a park ranger? And, do Grand Canyon rangers really live, rent-free, in historic cabins in the woods? Hello folks. I am ranger Doug, from the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park. During the height of the COVID pandemic, North Rim rangers started producing podcasts. And this was a safe way of connecting with park visitors without having face-to-face contact. In the fall of 2020, I sat down with a couple co-workers. We recorded a conversation about what it means to be a park ranger at Grand Canyon National Park looking at the ranger lifestyles, job hiring, stereotypes and more. Recently I dug out that old recording and decided to polish it into a finished podcast. You may hear muffled voices as some of us were wearing protective facemasks. Today’s podcast title is: Momma Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Rangers This title is obviously a tongue-in-cheek spoof, kinda a take-off, of that old country Western song, sung by Waylon Jennings and Willie Nelson. We all love being Grand Canyon park rangers. In the podcast, we will, however, take a close look at some common myths and mystiques and misconceptions about rangering at Grand Canyon National Park. I also invited my ranger friends Shiri, Dave, and Hannah to join me in singing a fun, parody, ending song, of the same title. So, sit back and please enjoy the podcast. Jeffery: How would you describe your line of work? A stay at home parent? A business executive? A park ranger at Grand Canyon National Park? Whatever your profession, it’s likely there’s a few misconceptions about it. Hi, I’m Jeffrey a park ranger at Grand Canyon National Park and you’re listening to Behind the Scenery podcast. Have you ever dreamed of leaving your city job and urban life to move somewhere pretty? What’s it really like to live and work at a National Park like the Grand Canyon? Recently, three of my park ranger co-workers sat down to discuss this subject and more. One ranger even called in from the very bottom of the Grand Canyon, from the Phantom Ranch Ranger Station, to join the conversation. I will let them introduce themselves. Doug: My name is ranger Doug. Jesse: I’m Jesse. Ceili: I’m Ceili. Doug: And we’re here today to look at Park Ranger Mystiques, Myths and Misconceptions. The first question I have for you guys: When you go to a backyard BBQ and you happen to mention you’re a park ranger at Grand Canyon National Park, what are the common myths and images that people have in their mind when you mention that you work for the National Park Service as a ranger? For me, you know, I think people have the image that I sit in a fire lookout all day long, and I get to write the great American novel and watch sunsets for free. I think they think that I drive around in a pickup truck all day long and I get to count elk off in the woods. And they definitely think that I live in a log cabin in the woods. What are some of the reactions you get from folks? Jesse: We DO live in a log cabin in the woods so that’s accurate. Ceili: That’s true! Um, I well if people have some kind of image about what it is I do, it’s usually like they’re usually unsure about it and they usually ask “so do you just hike around?” I think a lot of people assume that you’re, I’m hiking around inspecting, or like enforcing rules. I would say though, most people look at me kind of blankly and don’t even ask questions. Like they’re not even they have no idea and don’t even try to figure it out. Those are the kind of, there are different kinds of backyard BBQs the ones I am picturing people have no concept of what’s happening at the Grand Canyon at all. And I will say they always, they always talk about the uniform is what they talk about even if they have no idea what I do and don’t even ask questions or pretend to know what I do. They do know what they think I should be wearing. Jesse: People really are into the flat hat, which is my least favorite uniform item, but lots of folks seem to love it. Ceili: I have to explain that I actually don’t wear that very much. (Chuckle) Jesse: Try to avoid it as much as possible. Doug: And I’m just the opposite. I love wearing my ranger hat and wear it to work every day even if I have no public contacts. But another thing I see very commonly, if I’m chatting with somebody in the grocery line at the grocery store, and I mention I’m a park ranger. Then they instantly they start telling me their bear encounters. “Oh I …” Ceili: I have experienced that, actually. Doug: Yes, and its either they’re telling you their bear stories, their deer stories, or camping stories. Jesse: That’s nice. I like hearing those kinds of stories. Ceili: Yea, I had a couple times that people just dive into their bear encounters. And then at the end they ask “are there bears at the Grand Canyon?” I’m like “No, not really.” (chuckles) Doug: Well, so, what are some of the stereotypical profiles of a park ranger that you think the general public has in their minds? What comes to mind? Jesse: I mean, I, I, think like a bearded male. Ceili: Like you, Jesse! Jesse: Yea, I am the stereotype. Doug: But it has to be a “John Muir” beard. It has to be a long beard and you have to live in the woods and you have to be a rugged individualist, and you have to work by yourself. I think those are some of the stereotypes the public often has. Ceili: Yea, I think your list Doug, that you put out recently, was pretty spot on as far as stereotypical image. Doug: Yea, no office work, we’re outside working by ourselves, all day long, we’re also all knowing. We know every single plant and animal. The Latin names. Jesse: That part is true. (laughs!) Doug: That’s an expectation. But you and you have to have a scientific mind, of course, to be able to memorize all those Latin names of all those flowers. Ceili: Yea, and actually that reminds me of like going back to what people think when you tell them what you do they often assume you have a biology or an environmental science degree. Jesse: Yea. Ceili: Which is not usually true, actually. Or not always true. Doug: Doesn’t our boss have a music degree? Jesse: She has a Masters degree in percussion performance. I have a friend who is an interpretive ranger who has an architecture degree. I have a history degree. Like, Ceili: And then I’m always bummed because I actually have an environmental science degree (laughs) so I am not able to break the stereotype for them. (More laughs) Doug: I know but I think the image is that you have to be a botanist, or a biologist, or have a park management degree or something in the natural or cultural resources Ceili: Yea, they always ask if you have a forestry degree. Doug: So that brings up a very important stereotype that I think we can do some myth busting right now. What’s the difference between a forest ranger and a park ranger? Ceili: Well isn’t isn’t the difference like if there’s a national forest, the United States Forest Service, and the National Park Service are different things. So if you work for the Forest Service maybe you’re a forest ranger? If you work for the Park Service you’re a park ranger? Doug: The US Forest Service manages all the Forests in America. And they are under the Department of Agriculture. And whenever you drive into a National Forest you always see the sign that says: “Land of Many Uses.” Jesse: Which means, basically like all the cool stuff want to do in a national park but it’s against the rules, you can do in a National Forest. Doug: So, for example, there are commercial consumptive uses of the resources. You can have timber contracts, you can have mining, you can have grazing, you can hunt in National Forests. Jesse: You can have fires if there are no fire restrictions, you can dispersed camp. Doug: Many uses. Jesse: You can fly your drone. Doug: But national parks, on the other hand, they’re in a separate department of government, under Department of Interior. The reason I think the US Forest Service is Department Agriculture because the trees are thought to be a consumptive renewable resource. But most of the other land managing agencies in the federal government fall under the Department of Interior, which the National Park Service does. So forest rangers work for the US Forest Service. Park rangers work for the National Park Service under Department of Interior. Jesse: Yea, I mean it’s all fairly confusing if you’re not like immersed in this world because there’re Forest Service which is Agriculture which is strange. There’s Bureau of Land Management which is similar to Forest Service but also under the Department of Interior. Then th...
Transcribe →Behind the Camera with Deidra Peaches
Nov 28, 202400:41:27Tap to summarizeDeidra Peaches is a Diné filmmaker whose films have been shown at festivals around the world, including a short film at the Sundance Film Festival. In this episode of the Behind the Scenery Podcast, Deidra talks about her work, her connection to the Grand Canyon, exploring her culture and identity through filmmaking, and the importance of elevating Native voices. Learn more at deidrapeaches.com ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Alli: Hello, this is Alli. For this episode of the Behind the Scenery Podcast, I had the opportunity to speak with Deidre Peaches, a Diné filmmaker. If you'd like to just introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about yourself. Deidra: Yeah. (Introduction in Diné) And that's me introducing myself as a Diné asdzáá from Flagstaff, Arizona. And a little bit about myself, I am a full-time filmmaker. I own my own production company called DLP Productions that's owned and operated in Flagstaff, AZ. And a little bit about my filmmaking history is that I've been doing this line of work for a long time now. I started in high school creating short films with colleagues and friends, and that propelled and curiosity of creating films propelled to, like, different opportunities, creating narrative films, creating documentaries and, at the time, it was more or less, filmmaking was an outlet for me to keep myself occupied. Prior to that, I was really into sports. I was into basketball and everything, and I had dislocated my patella and so filmmaking was a way to like, not uh have too much stress on my body, but to do something that was creatively, just something I wanted to venture into. So that's something that I've been doing for well over 18 years now and I certainly enjoy doing that. Alli: OK, great. So, you kind of answered my second question. But how exactly did you get into filmmaking? And was it something that you always were interested in, always wanted to do? Deidra: Yeah, it's been something I've always in one aspect or another, it's something that I have found myself very curious about. I remember being younger and creating kind of like stop motion animation with like different sort of stick figures and creating a storyboard so inherently it was something that I found interesting. And it just grew into more things and then to this day, I'm still learning and I'm still wanting to to create more narratives and documentary film work. Alli: Now, you’ve obviously done a lot of different films. In 2022, you directed the film Voices of the Grand Canyon. What is your personal connection to the Grand Canyon and how has working on documentaries about the Grand Canyon shaped that connection? Deidra: Yeah. So, I'll, I'll start from my first memory of like really going to the Grand Canyon was a school field trip from Flagstaff. And going with a bunch of kids on the bus and going to the South Rim of the Canyon to the visitor center and just walking around like out there and just being immersed in just the vastness of the Canyon and the colors of the landscape. And it was something you don't really see every day. So being from a very ponderosa filled environment and then going to a Canyon, that was definitely something that stuck with me visually. And the other aspect of my connection to the Grand Canyon is that my third clan is Áshįįhi, which is salt people and in Diné culture we have stories that talk about the salt mines that are in the Canyon, that there's trails there that lead us, that a lot of our people have gone to and so directly like having that lineage is something that I've grown to learn more about through having these conversations and creating films and listening to other elders. And so, I'm, I'm really fortunate to have that opportunity to have those conversations and to learn about myself through documentary filmmaking. Alli: Yeah. If you just want to talk a little bit about, more about your film, Voices of the Grand Canyon, what it was like creating that film. Deidra: Yeah. So, um in 2022, voices of the Grand Canyon came out. And on that film, I had the opportunity to venture to different places along the Colorado Plateau, home to different Indigenous tribes on the plateau. And so one of the particular tribes that I remember going to was out in Zuni and so going to Zuni and hearing stories from elders out there. Talking about their connection to the Canyon and the stories that they have connected to the Canyon. And I guess in a lot of ways too this journey of the film really started too in 2015 when I had the opportunity to travel down the Grand Canyon from Lee's Ferry all the way down to, down to Phantom Ranch. And that was about like a week plus um river trip and so being there on a river rafting trip and being surrounded too by other elders who have voiced like their own connection to the Canyon was very powerful for me and in a lot of ways, I carried on that experience to the eventual creation of Voices of the Grand Canyon. Because, you know, for a lot of people that are fortunate enough to go down the river trip, there's springs that are down there. There's different wildlife, there's vegetation, there's rock formation. And just being in that space where you're able to see time in the sense of sediment was very powerful. And seeing like the most oldest rock layer being, like, a very black sort of like layer in the sheath of, of rock and everything and even too in our Diné creation stories we talk about world that's black and so kind of seeing like those correlations. Seeing that connection on a scale of that sort was definitely eye-opening for me. And so, from that experience of 2015 and then being fortunate enough to go and visit elders in their native homeland and conduct interviews was really great. So, in Zuni, interviewed Jim Enote and then um for Carletta yeah Carletta it was out in Hualapai. It was in a place called Diamond Creek right off the road from where Peach Springs is, and so being in those areas that meant so much to each individual was very enlightening, and I appreciated that experience with them. And so, yeah, being in that area, seeing the, hearing the roaring of the Canyon, or the water of the Colorado. And then also too just traveling down through the Canyon was really great. And so yeah, so being there too and another person was Coleen Kaska. She wanted to be interviewed at the top of the Canyon on the South Rim area. And so talking with her there and her sharing what it what the Canyon means and translates in her language and how it simply means the Grand Canyon simply means “where the train stops” and so kind of just having that direct source of having people who from all different backgrounds talk about the Canyon is very powerful, cause a lot of times people think of Native Americans as like a pan sort of perspective. Like there's only just one type or just lumping us all together. And so, in a lot of ways, it's not like that. Us down here we don't have a connection to maybe say, like Long House culture to, to totem poles that they do in other regions of the Pacific Northwest. And so, I think by celebrating and talking with elders who are still around and who have this very direct connection and lineage is really important. And so with Voices of the Grand Canyon, knowing that there's eons of connection and culture that's tied into the rocks, the fish and everything that's in the Canyon is important. Alli: Now you've had your films and documentaries shown at film festivals around the world, including a short film at the Sundance Film Festival. What have been some significant moments in your filmmaking career? Deidra: Yeah. With the career that’s spanned, I guess since 2007. So, well over 14/15 plus years, I've been fortunate to visit a lot of places and to meet a lot of people. And at the time with the Sundance Film Festival I was around 21 or 22 years old, and I was fortunate to be there with my colleagues Jake Hoyungowa, and Donovan Seschillie. In that particular role, Donovan was the director, I'm the producer, and Jake was the cinematographer, so having a network of creatives being so young and going to these spaces and um seeing what it is that this landscape encompasses as far as like marketing, publicity, and stuff. It was, it was very eye opening to see that filmmaking, uh Film Festival kind of circuit. And so now being older going to a couple of different film festivals, one that was memorable was in France, it was in Paris, it was the Indigenous Peoples Film Festival. That's the American translation. But that was a really cool experience uh with this filmmaker out there named Sophia, and so that was a really cool experience to go out there and to be immersed in a different culture. And so yeah, I feel very fortunate to be a part of those travels and to visit and to, to be surrounded by people and culture. Alli: OK. What are some messages that you want to convey through your filmmaking? Deidra: One of the messages I want to convey through my art and message of filmmaking is that we as Diné people, as people who are Native and find our home all around this region, that our voices are still strong and prevalent. And by exercising our integrity, our ethics, our culture, um we're having our ancestors live through us in that way. And so, by respecting them too, and that's congruent to the land, the water, the air and so forth. Alli: So, a lot of your focus recently has been more on documentary filmmaking. What drew you towards creating documentaries and what are some of the projects that you've worked on? Deidra: So, documentary filmmaking has been a way for me to connect and learn more about my culture. When I started out making films, I was really interested in learning more about the socio-economic disparities felt among Navajo people, Diné people. And so, it turned into asking questions and wanting to learn more about the water, wanting to learn more about the coal f...
Transcribe →First Voices - Kelkiyana Yazzie
Oct 26, 202401:01:12Tap to summarizeIn the modern history of the National Park Service, there’s but a handful of fourth-generation National Park employees. Kelkiyana Yazzie is such a ranger. What was it like growing up on the Navajo Nation in Arizona? What does it mean to work today, as the Tribal Program Coordinator for Grand Canyon National Park? And how do you calm a mortally-wounded, panicky and stressed-out bison on the North Rim? Join us for an insightful conversation with a unique Grand Canyon Ranger. ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Kelkiyana Something my colleague likes to say is that “we're not a resource to be managed.” And seeing the Grand Canyon, that's a part of us as Native people. It's not like a different thing than us. I always hear that when I work with Tribal members and even in my own culture is that this place is a living landscape and we're interconnected with it. We have a reciprocal relationship with it. Doug Hello folks, and welcome. My name is Ranger Doug from the North Rim of Grand Canyon National Park. We have a very special guest today, who will join us for an interesting look at Grand Canyon, sharing her insights and thoughts, from the perspective of an Indigenous National Park employee. This conversation is part of our First Voices series of Behind the Scenery Grand Canyon National Park podcasts. In the modern history of the whole National Park Service, there’s but a handful of fourth-generation National Park employees. And today you are going to meet one of these rare individuals. What was it like growing up on the Navajo Nation in Arizona? How did this park ranger become the fourth generation in her family to wear a National Park Service ranger uniform? What does it mean to work today, as the Tribal Program Coordinator for Grand Canyon National Park? And how do you calm a mortally-wounded, panicky and stressed-out bison on the North Rim? We’ll answer these and many more questions. Join us for a fascinating and insightful conversation with special Grand Canyon ranger, Kelkiyana Yazzie. I will let her introduce herself to you. Kelkiyana Hi. Hello. Ya'at'eeh. Good morning. My name is Kelkiyana Yazzie. I am the Tribal Program Coordinator for Grand Canyon National Park. That means that I work with the parks 11 Associated Tribes to have them feel represented and included in park management and projects here at Grand Canyon. And to introduce myself in Navajo language, I'm a Navajo Tribal member, Bit’ahnii nishli, Lok'aa’ Dine’e bashishchiin, Bilagaana dashicheii, Tabaaha’ dashinali. That's how we usually introduce ourselves to other Navajo people to establish a sense of kinship with them. Those were our clans. So my first clan is Bit’ahnii, which means folded arm people. I always hope that means a good thing. And then my second clan is Lok'aa’ Dine’e, which means reed people and that actually has Hopi origins. So somewhere down the line I have Hopi, Hopi ancestors. Even though I identify as Navajo today. But yeah, clans are still strong and in existence in the Navajo culture. You can ask the little 5-year-old Navajo kid and they'll be able to introduce themselves in Navajo just like the way I did. So that just shows how important that is to our culture and heritage today. Doug Now the Navajo reservation, the Navajo Nation, shares a boundary with Grand Canyon National Park. Our eastern boundary, and your western boundary is shared. So can you share with the listeners a little bit about the Navajo Nation? Kelkiyana Yeah. So the Navajo Nation is considered the largest Native American reservation in the United States. I believe it's let at least 265,000 square miles and it has a population of about 165,000 people who live on the reservation today. If you ever get a chance to drive through the rez, you'll see how spaced apart our communities are and you'll see, like random houses here and there along the highway. So it may seem like it's a desolate place, but in reality it's just full of families full of culture and heritage that's still strong today. Growing up on the Navajo Nation, there's a lot of difficulties and challenges, such as not having running water and electricity, and that's a common thing for the Navajo Nation, is that a lot of households still don't have running water. And with my own family, we didn’t even have running water until I was about fourth grade. Before that, we would use an outhouse and then like a camp shower, like a solar shower, my dad built like pallets and put up curtains, and then we just leave the shower bag out in the sun all day, and that's what we would use. So yeah, wasn't till I was in 4th grade and a lot of families out there still don't have running water. But the Navajo Nation is a special place. We call it Diné Bikéyah. And it's considered to be within the four sacred mountains, one being San Francisco Peaks near Flagstaff, AZ. Another being Mount Blanca, Mount Taylor in New Mexico and Hesperus up in Colorado. So those, within those four mountains is considered our ancestral and modern-day homeland. Doug So you grew up in the Shonto area. Tell us a little bit about that, growing up on the rez. Kelkiyana Yeah. I grew up in a really small community called Shonto. We had a population about 500 people, so everyone knew each other and what's very common on the rez is that we live next to our families. So I have my house that I grew up in with my parents and my siblings, and then just like maybe 500 yards away with my nááli, my grandma on my dad's side, she lived there and I just maybe like one or two miles away was my great grandma and she would always walk over to our house at all hours of the day or night. Even in the middle of the night, she would like, have no flashlight and she's just walking through the trees and she'll end up at our house. But I grew up in a traditional household. We had sheep. We still have sheep and horses. Livestock. Cattle. And so we would do things like butchering for special occasions or just for family gatherings where we would butcher the sheep. Uh, we still do that today in our family. It's a great way to get together and we use all parts of the sheep, whether to eat or you use the wool for weaving. I always remember going to my great grandma's hogan growing up, my dad would drop us off there on the weekends. I know back then I used to really hate it, but thinking back on it, I'm really glad I got to experience that, but she would be using like a like a spindle and she would have a loom and she would like really care-take for her own wool. She would make it all from getting it from the sheep to where it ends up in a rug. She was a weaver. So that was really cool to see that process and I even got to weave a small rug with my great grandma that I still have today coming from the wool from her, her own sheep herd, from her own sheep corral. But yeah, I'm just really fortunate to have grown up in a traditional small community. Our closest neighbors, again, are our family, and then I would have, the school is kind of faraway where we would wake up at 5:30 in the morning to get on the bus and we wouldn't come back until 5:30 in the evening. That just shows how harsh and long the commute to school was growing up in that community. Doug And then where did you go to high school? Kelkiyana I went to high school in a small town called Kayenta, Arizona. It's near Monument Valley Tribal Park. Some people may have heard of that. It's where those famous buttes are that are showcased in old Western films, such as the John Wayne movies. And yeah, it's called Monument Valley High School. And again, it would take like 2 hours to commute from Shonto to Kayenta on the bus because a lot of us lived on rural dirt roads. So the bus would have to travel through and pick us up and then take us to Kayenta. But yeah, it was a really good high school experience. A common thing that was taught to us is Navajo language, so that's something that's really strong on the reservation, not just at the high school I went to, but all the schools across the Navajo Nation, even in all the way from preschool age to college level, the Navajo language and crafts such as basket making and rug weaving are taught in our schools on the rez. Doug And what was your post high school path like? Kelkiyana Yeah. So after high school, I ended up going to Fort Lewis College in Durango, Colorado, that was primarily because they offered free tuition to Native American students, and it was still close enough to home. It was about a four-hour commute one way. I'm really close with my family growing up, so I knew I was going to get homesick if I went elsewhere. But I was really glad with my choice because Fort Lewis and Durango is just like a really small mountain town with this strong sense of community. Everyone was so nice and welcoming. It also had a large Native American population. I believe 20% of the students were from Tribes from all over the country, from Alaska to Hawaii, to South Dakota and even the East Coast. So I got involved with the Native American Center, the Environmental Center, and an organization called Engineers Without Borders, where I was able to spend summers in Central America, in Nicaragua, building latrines and water systems for rural remote villages there. So yeah, I got a lot of that experience. I built up my leadership skills while I was in college. I was always a shy, introverted person growing up and I always knew I wanted to be a teacher. So my college experience at Fort Lewis really shaped me to be where I'm at today. I give a lot of credit to that institution for making me the person I am today and for helping me in the current position that I'm serving in the Park Service. Doug And there's a small National Monument established in 1909 near your hometown of Shonto area called Navajo National Monument. Talk about your family’s connection to this small National Monument. Kelkiyana Yeah. So I grew up about 5 minutes down the r...
Transcribe →Looking Up - Accessing the Night Sky with Kevin Schindler
Sep 7, 202400:38:41Tap to summarizeKevin Schindler has a career in astronomy spanning nearly thirty years in the Northern Arizona area. Listen in on this episode of Behind the Scenery, where Kevin divulges his atypical career journey, some of his favorite moments and biggest inspirations, debunks misconceptions about accessing the night sky, and offers advice for success in night sky viewing. Just look up! Learn more about Kevin's work at lowell.edu. ---TRANSCRIPT:--- Dave: Hey, this is Dave. Elle: And this is Elle. Dave: We sat down with Kevin Schindler, the Public Information Officer and historian at Lowell Observatory, to chat about his time as an astronomer residence and to learn more about the night sky. Elle: While Dave had the chance to sit down with him in person. I phoned in from the North Rim. Please forgive our audio quality. We tried. Dave: In this episode, we'll be taking Kevin’s advice and looking up at the night sky. To learn more about it. Kevin: My name is Kevin Schindler, and I'm the historian and Public Information Officer at Lowell Observatory, and I've been at Lowell for 28 years. Early on in my career, I was in the public program at Lowell, so I started as a tour guide, then ended up managing the program for a dozen years or something like that. And now I I'm the historian, and so I try to document the history, which is not just back then, but now, it's kind of for me it's not history and current, it's the heritage that we've been doing for a long time. So, the heritage of research. So, I do with that I write articles and some books, and give talks, and kind of help with planning exhibits and that sort of thing. And then for the Public Information Officer, PIO, that's the other half of what I do and that's promoting the observatory. So that's largely the media relations, and so if we have a science story or we're doing something special for our public program, or there's an unusual or interesting astronomical event, like we have eclipses coming up so and so I'll do press releases and media alerts, set up interviews with our staff, host tours with media personnel so that people from around the world coming like to check out Northern Arizona, they'll go to the Grand Canyon, to here in Flagstaff, and so we'll facilitate tours up here at the observatory promoting everything so they'll write about it and let people know. We were talking earlier and mentioned crisis management. We don't have that much here. We do have some things you would call, I don't know, emergencies in a different way or things that you know when we closed for COVID for instance we had to gather and get some information together quickly. I mean there's certainly some of that. My title is Public Information Officer, but it really focuses on the media relations and everyday activities going on that are interesting and people want to know about. Dave: For most of our visitors that come to Grand Canyon when we're giving night sky programs, I find that most people have never looked at, looked up. What's your approach for starting to teach people just the beginning steps about the night sky? Kevin: I think the first thing is just to go outside and look up. It’s as simple as that it. You know, it's so cool to look through telescopes, and you know it's a whole universe revealed when you do that, but most of us don't have access to telescopes. Or maybe you can go and visit an observatory or an astronomy club, but just looking up to me is stunning because there's so much you can see with the unaided eye or with a pair of binoculars you can see more, but there's so much you can see if you just look. I'm reminded of a Yogi Berra. “You can observe a lot by just looking,” and it's really true. And I think part of that is, that you can really notice a lot of things like the moon rising and look at that really bright dot. Go back in a couple of nights to see where it is, how it's changed position. But I think another thing for me that I'd like to tell people just starting to stargaze is, you know, go out and look up, but also, you know, think a little bit about the sky and how important it has been to human culture. Because it's so ingrained with our everyday life. And we think about time, like AM and PM are based on astronomy. The length of the day, the length of the month, the length of the year, that's based on astronomy. Finding your cardinal direction if you're lost, use astronomy, you know whether it's the sun during the day or the North Star or other stars. It is so inspiring to look up and to see a shooting star, or to see a meteor shower, or an eclipse, but also just in our everyday life. How you know from the beginning, people looked up and its astronomy, they called the oldest science, originally called astrology, before it was really a science. Just looking up at the sky and it how much it impacts our everyday life. So just going out and looking up to me is the big first step. Dave: You talked about your background earlier, so I know you studied paleontology and history. How did you get started in astronomy? That's kind of a different career move. Kevin: Yeah. So, I grew up in Ohio and I'm not sure if we ever have clear skies there. It's always cloudy, it seemed like, but I was always interested in fossils. So, I looked down. I was always looking down during the daytime. I never did anything with astronomy. I went to college for geology and paleontology, and then I when I started working at Lowell Observatory in 1995, I applied here and when I was applying, you know the guy interviewing me, who's a friend of mine, now we've known each other for years, he said, “What do you know about the night sky and how many constellations can you identify?” I said “none, but I I'll sure be glad to learn.” And so, I think that's something that I found is sort of beneficial for me at least, when I'm talking to people about the night sky is that it hasn't been a passion all my life. I found it later on, and I really love it. I haven't studied all my life and used all the lingo. I kind of talk about astronomy in the same language that everyday people do. And so, I never have to worry much about talking as it were, over somebody's head, or using lingo that doesn't make sense because I'm conscious of that. And so, I try to explain it. I just started kind of by accident. You know, there's an opening at this place called Lowell Observatory, they do science, they have history, they do outreach. I love all that. So, I mean, it could have been an arboretum, or it could have been a number of things, but it was an observatory. And I've, you know, been doing it for a while now. And so, like now I just you know, I just love it. It's funny if you, if you, I always think of it, life is kind of like one of those mazes you do. You know, you start out, you know you're trying to go from one point to the end, and you go have all these different possible ways of going. And if you start at the start, you might have a couple you're not quite sure where the path is taking you, but if you start at the end and go backwards, it's pretty obvious how to do it, and I think that's probably all of us to some degree. I mean, some people certainly have their life planned out, but so many of us, one turn takes you in a different direction and for me looking back, I can see how I got here, but I sure as heck would never have been able to predict that when I was young. Elle: Can you tell us about the first time that you ever got to view like a deep sky object or a planet or something like that? Kevin: When I started here at Lowell Observatory in 1995, and I actually don't remember the first thing I looked at because we had a couple of things that, it was either Jupiter or Saturn, I think it was both. They were both up in the sky. But it was it was neat because we when I started here, we didn't have all these smaller portable telescopes. We had a big 24-inch diameter, 32-foot-long telescopes, the historic one that still people can look at today, and so just being inside of that room with the red glow of lights, looking through this 32-foot-long behemoth and looking at Jupiter and Saturn, I think it was both. But anyways, it was it was just, just stunning and you know, what stood out to me was again that I was I able to look and see these things up close but it was also almost as stunning that they were so small. Because I didn't have the background in astronomy, most of my connection with astronomy was seeing the cover of National Geographic or things like that that had these spectacular images that were taken by spacecraft that have flown out there. And so that's what I expected to see. And so when I looked through telescopes like, that's really cool, but it sure is small. But again, that's something that has stuck with me to explain to visitors, you know it's not going to be like the cover of a magazine with a processed image that's been blown up and from a spacecraft out there. But imagine what you're doing is you're looking at lights that, you know, if it's the moon, it's light, that start traveling to us half a second ago, and look at the details you can see. And again, I think because of my different background has served me well because I wasn't a hardcore astronomy nerd in the beginning. And so, I just feel like somebody that picked it up as a hobby, except I get paid for it, which is really nice. Elle: What do you think would be the biggest hurdle to accessing the night sky as a layperson, or as somebody who doesn't have a telescope and things like that? And how would you suggest overcoming that hurdle? Kevin: I think the biggest hurdle is finding clear sky or dark sky. 80% of the world can't see the Milky Way Galaxy. They live in a place where you can't see the Milky Way. 80%. So. I mean, that means, you know, 80% of the world lives in populated areas where there's artificial light pollution. I think that's probably the biggest hurdle. I mean, again, it's, it's great to look ...
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