Have you ever had a friend not text you back, and you’re certain that they’re mad at you? This is often a disruption in the process of mentalization: the ability to recognize that our thoughts and feelings might not be facts. Mentalization is a process we can all struggle with, but it’s particularly important for people who have Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

In this episode, Forrest is joined by psychotherapist and author Robert Drozek to discuss mentalization-based treatment (MBT) and the tools that can help us develop more flexibility and curiosity around our assumptions. Bob outlines the three common modes of mentalizing, explains how childhood experiences shape mentalization, and offers a map for building healthier ways of relating to our thoughts and feelings.

About our Guest: Robert Drozak is a clinical social worker, the clinical director of the Mentalization-Based Treatment Clinic at McLean Hospital, and a teaching associate in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. His new book, Mentalization: Utilizing Reflection to Heal from Borderline Personality Disorder, is the first book about Mentalization-Based Treatment aimed at a general audience.

Key Topics:

0:00: Intro: what is mentalization?

5:12: Ways mentalization can go wrong

13:25: Borderline Personality Disorder as a deficit in mentalization

22:13: How mentalization is shaped in childhood

28:54: The alien self

32:23: Developing an MBT formulation

42:03: MBT in the therapy room

54:40: Challenging your beliefs and assumptions

1:11:21: How to get out of pretend mode

1:21:37: Addressing problems with interoception

1:30:00: Recap

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Recovering from BPD with Mentalization-Based Therapy with Robert Drozek