Betrayal Trauma In Marriage, When It’s Not Getting Better

Summary

Podcast Summary: Betrayal Trauma In Marriage, When It’s Not Getting Better – Nikki’s Story

Podcast: Betrayal Trauma Recovery
Host: Anne Blythe, M.Ed.
Guest: Nikki (pseudonym), survivor from Australia
Date: March 11, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Anne Blythe speaks with Nikki, an Australian woman who has endured over two decades of betrayal trauma within her marriage. Nikki openly shares her journey—from early confusion and pain to finding understanding and support through Betrayal Trauma Recovery (BTR). The conversation delves into the insidious and often misunderstood nature of betrayal trauma, particularly when traditional marriage advice fails and nothing seems to improve. Nikki discusses the realities of living in ongoing emotional abuse, her struggle for awareness and support, and how BTR’s resources have impacted her ability to reclaim agency over her life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Discovery and Early Warning Signs

• Early Relationship: Nikki met her husband as a teenager. She describes the shock of discovering his pornography use while pregnant with their first child, resulting in immense trauma immediately:

  “I was six months pregnant with our first child, and … there was all this pornography. And I was horrified.” (00:54)

• Immediate Impact: The trauma from this discovery was so acute, she went into labor the next day.

2. Struggling to Identify Abuse

• Not Recognizing Abuse:

  “I never really recognised the abuse. Not until I started educating myself, really.” (02:49)

• Isolation and Lack of Local Support: Living in Melbourne, Nikki found little to no support for betrayal trauma outside of BTR, especially in Australia, where cultural attitudes minimized her pain.

3. Burden of ‘Traditional’ Marriage Advice

• Internalization of Blame: Nikki recounts years of believing improvement depended on her efforts:

  “I thought if I looked better, if I tried harder, if I loved him more…” (03:20)

• Realization of Ineffectiveness:

  “About 20 years ago…we’d been married about 27 years…seven years in, you realize, wait a minute, this isn’t working.” (04:37–04:46)

4. Understanding Psychological Abuse and Gaslighting

• Delayed Understanding: Nikki only realized her husband’s actions were abusive in the last six years:

  “It's only the abuse part has really only been, I think, the last six years that I've seen his actions as being abusive.” (05:17)

• The Role of Gaslighting:

  “You second guessing yourself all the time.” (06:55)

5. The Power of Education and Connection

• Desperation for Support: Nikki reached a crisis point and turned to the internet, ultimately finding BTR’s Facebook group.
• Validating Experience:

  “Being informed and then being able to research that and having the facts…that’s been the greatest thing.” (07:42)

• Physical Effects of Trauma: Nikki details developing tinnitus as a manifestation of sustained trauma:

  “I’ve developed really bad tinnitus…a physical representation of what’s going on…my brain’s kind of got to the point where it’s like, I don’t want to work anymore.” (08:41)

6. Family Impact

• Parenting in Chaos: Nikki’s five children gravitated to her as the “sensible parent.” She attributes her husband’s emotional immaturity and stunted growth to long-term pornography use.

  “His pornography stunted his intellectual growth. It must be about 14, I think.” (10:01)

7. Recovering Agency Through Support

• Boundary Shifts:

  “I no longer buy into his bs….I state my case, I drop it, I walk away and I allow him time to be truthful…I’m just living my life to the best of my ability.” (10:55)

• Freedom from Policing Spouse: She describes the relief of stopping hypervigilance and surveillance.

8. Nuanced Reality of Recovery & Staying

• On BTR’s Values: Nikki pushes back on misconceptions that BTR is “pro-divorce”:

  “I’ve never seen you say get a divorce or being a man hater. You lay the facts out as they are. Whatever a woman does with that is their choice, their option.” (13:11)

• Personal Reasons for Staying:

  “We’ve got a lot of financial obligations together. You know, we still have grandchildren that would visit granddad and I’d much prefer to be around. So I know why I stay within my marriage.” (14:31)

• Anne’s Position:

  “Your safety is the most important thing and you can figure out what that looks like in your own life.” (13:29)

9. The Ongoing Cost of ‘Making Do’

• Living Without Peace:

  “There is peace around our marriage and our life. No, there isn’t peace. I’m making do with what I’ve got because of circumstance. And that’s really awful to say because it feels like a half life.” (16:34)

• Uncertainty and Hope: Nikki anticipates major decisions ahead for her marriage, but expresses hope for her personal future:

  “For our marriage and for us together…we’re going to have to make a step either away from each other. And I don’t think it’s going to be too long down the road.” (18:04)

10. Advice to Other Victims

• For Women Discovering Porn Use:

  “Get help, get into immediate help. Find a really good support network…Find that one person and walk beside them and let them walk beside you…It’s not your fault. Don’t try and fix him.” (19:42)

• On Trying to Fix the Abuser:

  “If I look a bit pretty, if I wear this lingerie, if I do that risky behavior…that’ll make him happy and he won’t do it anymore.” (20:28)
  “They get themselves stuck emotionally at the age they start using. So what you’re actually doing is complying to a teenager child….a man tantrum has bigger impacts.” (20:47)

11. Value of Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group

• Community and Validation:

  “This is the place you go to when you need to feel heard, you need to feel safe, you need to…feel loved. Because this group, for me anyway, has provided that.” (22:16)

• Normalizing “Crazy-Making”

  “This group has helped me unravel that craziness…I’m not that crazy after all.” (23:05–23:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Challenge of Recognizing Abuse

  “Because the person that you most trust…the one you think will never hurt you, is the one that’s doing it.” (05:40, Nikki)

• On the Role of Education

  “Once you have power, you’re able to change the way you operate, change the way you do things.” (07:42, Nikki)

• On Gaslighting

  “Oh, no, I must have misunderstood what he said. Oh, no, he’s right. I’ve got that wrong.” (06:40, Nikki)

• Empowering Boundaries

  “I state my case, I drop it, I walk away…I’m just living my life to the best of my ability.” (10:55, Nikki)

• On Not Being Alone and Healing

  “To know you’re not alone and that the crazy-making that happens sometimes…this group has helped me unravel that craziness…You come away thinking, oh, okay…you take a big sigh of relief.” (23:05–23:41, Nikki)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:54: Nikki’s first traumatic discovery of husband’s porn use
• 02:49: The lack of local support and initial unawareness of abuse
• 04:37–04:46: Realization that traditional marriage advice wasn’t helping
• 05:40: Exploration of why abuse can be so difficult to recognize
• 07:42: The impact of BTR support groups
• 08:41: Physical effects of trauma and dissociation
• 10:55: Nikki on shifting from hypervigilance to setting boundaries
• 13:11: Discussion on BTR’s position regarding divorce and support
• 16:34: Living in an ongoing, unreconciled marriage environment
• 19:42: Nikki’s advice to women at the start of their own journey
• 22:16: The emotional safety and validation of BTR’s group
• 23:05–23:41: How group validation dismantles self-doubt and confusion

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Conclusion

Nikki’s story is a powerful, honest account of the long, difficult arc of betrayal trauma recovery—emphasizing how isolation, societal minimization, and misguided self-blame can trap women for years. The episode highlights the unique healing that comes from education, community, and validation as provided by BTR, as well as the complexity and deeply personal nature of each survivor’s journey. Nikki’s advice to new victims centers on immediate outreach for support, rejecting self-blame, and understanding that the responsibility lies solely with the abuser—not the victim. The podcast closes with a reassurance: you are not alone, you are not crazy, and healing is possible through safety, self-compassion, and supportive community.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, it's Anne. If you've listened to this podcast, you know I interview women who are dealing with their husband's lies, anger or infidelity. I've interviewed over 200 women and counting. If you relate to anything you hear in this episode, we can help you today. I created our daily live group sessions because when I was going through it, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't find the help I needed. We know exactly how to help women in this situation. The entire BTR team has been through it. So we know how to anticipate the issues you're likely to face. And when you discover your husband's lies or infidelity, no matter where you are in the world, we can help you immediately. Check out our group session [e-mail] group today we have a member of our community. We're going to call her Nikki. She's actually from Australia. Welcome, Nikki. So tell me your story. Did you recognize your husband's abusive behaviors at first?

[B]

Not at all. Goodness me, no. I was 15, just had my 16th birthday when I met my husband. I was in the UK and we've been together ever since. I was six months pregnant with our first child, and he brought this little black bag home and not seen it before. We weren't living together at the time, but he brought it back into my little flat and being curious, I opened it and there was all this material in there, all this pornography. And I was horrified. And I said to him, this is not what I want as part of my life. I knew this wasn't what I wanted. And he said, oh, I'll get rid of it. I'll get rid of it. And there was other bits in this bag as well, which baffled me. I was just horrified. And the next day I went into labour because I was just that traumatised, I guess. So from that point, it kind of just never really stopped. I would continually find magazines under the couch. I mean, we tried getting help before. We'd gone to several pastors who were basically just more about the codependent model. But I'd done nothing except for protect myself and our children throughout our marriage.

[A]

And try to protect your marriage, right, from the pornography? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I didn't want our children to spend time with me and then time with him because he'd pretty much gone down the rabbit hole. I didn't want there to be a point where he was left with them alone.

[A]

Where do you live in Australia?

[B]

In Melbourne, Victoria, but I'm from Tasmania.

[A]

Okay. How do you feel like the support is there.

[B]

None. I have struggled to find anybody in this field that can really help. So, no, I never really recognised the abuse. Not until I started educating myself, really. And then it was when I came across the BTR Facebook page is when I knew really that what he was doing. Abused.

[A]

Before you found btr, when you were trying to get help, what types of things did you do to try and, like, improve?

[B]

Yep. I thought if I looked better, if I tried harder, if I loved him more, you know, I learned about the love languages. I was always trying to improve myself and even going to counseling to try and improve something. Yeah, I took it on board, but I think that's a lot more to do with how I was raised. Be a better wife. And then he wouldn't do this thing.

[A]

So you knew about the porn. Did you recognize the other types of abusive behaviors like lying and manipulation and gaslighting? Could you identify those back in the day, or did you not kind of realize all that was going on too?

[B]

I knew that there was lying and manipulation because that kind of goes in hand in hand with sneaky behavior, doesn't it? Yeah, it wasn't really until the Internet came about and you could Google this kind of stuff that I became aware of it, really. It wasn't until much later in our marriage, really.

[A]

So when did you realize that common marriage advice, look good, love, serve, forgive, make sure dinner's on the table, make sure the house is clean. You know, that sort of thing. When did you realize that that common marriage advice was not working and that things were not improving?

[B]

Probably about 20 years ago.

[A]

And how long have you been married?

[B]

We've been married about 27 years.

[A]

Okay, so seven years in, you realize, wait a minute, this isn't working. What helped you come to that realization?

[B]

I think it's shortly after we'd had intercourse and I walked in and found him looking at pornography. I should have just thought he was deliberately trying to hurt me. That was my train of thought.

[A]

And when you thought that he's deliberately trying to hurt me, you also didn't think abuse way back then?

[B]

No, not at all. It's only the abuse part has really only been, I think, the last six years that I've seen his actions as being abusive.

[A]

Why do you think it takes so long for victims of emotional abuse and psychological abuse and this type of sexual coercion to understand the reality of their situation?

[B]

Trauma. I think our brain sits in trauma. Because the person that you most trust, the person who you think will never hurt you, is the one that's doing it. And I think it's protection. I mean, I can't speak for everyone. I can only speak for me. Because whatever your circumstance is, there's a part of you that needs to protect your own mind and yourself. And sometimes it's about time your brain or your body's just not ready to realize that this is what it is.

[A]

There's also this education factor. You don't have an abuse class in high school along with math and English. Right. And so many people think they understand abuse because they've seen a TV show where a guy beats up his wife and they're like, that's what abuse is. And they don't really recognize all of the different covert ways that you can be abused.

[B]

I think it's the gaslighting as well. Because it's been going so long in my marriage.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's kind of like, oh, no, I must have misunderstood what he said. Oh, no, he's right. I've got that wrong. Oh, okay. Oh, I thought you meant this, but you actually meant this way. Oh, all right. So you second guessing yourself all the time.

[A]

What were you looking for online when you found BTR on Facebook?

[B]

I hit a crisis point. Crisis point brought me to the fact that I was trying to seek some kind of support basically anywhere. Because here in Australia, it's very much like, oh, you'll be right, mate. So whoever you spoke to thought you were being prissy, really. It just wasn't cutting it. I just felt so deeply ashamed and hurt that I needed some kind of support and just wasn't getting it in the real world. So when I came across the group, sort of changed the way that I view my whole life, really.

[A]

So you started attending betrayal trauma recovery group sessions. And those of you listening, if you want to learn more, you can go to btr.org group. But can you tell us about your.

[B]

Experience, knowing that I'm not alone? Because I've always taught our children that knowledge is power. Once you have power, you're able to change the way that you operate, change the way that you do things. So for me, that's been the greatest thing. Being informed and then being able to research that and having the facts behind which has been a great thing.

[A]

Being educated brings so much confidence because the Gaslighting, you're like, is this me? Is this real? What's going on? And if you don't have words for it, you can never fully define it to someone else. And so they'll give you typical things like, well, he Just must be stressed or maybe, don't worry, it'll get better, things like that. Because you're not able to say what's happening. So getting educated, then you're able to actually talk about it. Having words to describe it immediately helps people understand what's happening. It also helps the victims understand what is going on because there's so much confusion.

[B]

Yeah, for me, what I'm experiencing now, because I've been in this for a very long time and there's been a lot of game playing on his behalf. And I've just realized my body is actually physically. It started coming out. I've developed really bad tinnitus, or tinnitus, depending on how you pronounce it, you know, which to me is a physical representation of what's going out on the outside world. And also I find through the trauma, as I've got older, brain's just not working the same. And I really think that's because of the trauma that's gone on throughout our whole marriage and through childhood. My brain's kind of got to the point where it's like, I don't want to work anymore. I don't want to hold this memory or it just kind of phases out or disassociates, which I know part of the trauma. But it's really frustrating.

[A]

I can imagine. How old are you now?

[B]

47. We have five children. They're all adults now. Thank you, God. They survived. They're pretty good people. But we've got four boys, one girl. And my children growing up, they'd ask him a question and he wouldn't respond. And they would always be, oh, we're going to go to the sensible parent, meaning that we're going to go see Mum.

[A]

He wouldn't respond because he was distracted or he just couldn't focus.

[B]

I don't know if he didn't know the answer to it, so he didn't want to look silly, so he'd muck about. Because I really think his pornography stunted his intellectual growth. It must be about 14, I think. And I always developed critical thinking in our children, you know, told them to think about the where's whys and what fors of any situation. And because he didn't develop that skill, the children kind of overtook him in their thinking and their emotional development. He just really frustrated them.

[A]

That makes sense. In terms of the Betrayal Trauma recovery group, how has the education and the support that you've received there helped you to make different choices about how you are interacting with him?

[B]

I no longer buy into his bs. Like, if I ask him a question, I know he's done something. I know to expect whatever comes out of his mouth is going to be a lie. I state my case, I drop it, I walk away and I allow him time to be truthful and no longer check up on him. Because I found that, oh my goodness me, it was driving me nuts. I felt like I was chasing my whole. My whole life was engaged in trying to catch him out playing detective. And it just doesn't work. It just for me anyway. And I understand there is some form of control, especially early on when you're still buying into the gaslighting. But now I'm at a point where it's like, you know what you do? You. I've gone out and I'm back into work full time. I'm just living my life to the best of my ability. And the group sort of like the conversations that happen in the group and the information that's in the group really helped me see that. And so, yeah, I'm very grateful for that because it's sort of given me my life back and it's enabled me to take my power back as a woman, if that makes sense.

[A]

It does make sense. So we talk about boundaries a lot at BTR and in the BTR group and a lot of people that don't listen to the podcast, I would say, or they misunderstand what we do, accuse me of being pro divorce or a man hater or something like that or. But BTR is just a place where if you go there, you're going to end up bitter and angry and all that. You are still married. Would you speak to that a little bit and talk about how do you see btr? Like, I see us as a safety first organization. Right. Your safety is the most important thing and you can figure out what that looks like in your own life. But could you talk to that point?

[B]

I've never seen you say get a divorce or being a man hater. You lay the facts out as they are. Whatever a woman does with that is their choice, their option. Yeah. What you do promote though is are you safe? Are you okay?

[A]

We have to walk this very fine line because when we're talking about abuse, there are a lot of people that want to say, well, you should only encourage them to leave like immediately. And then there's the pornography addiction recovery people. And they're like, no, you should be nice and understanding and don't shame them and. And don't make any decisions and know they're sick and how can you help them? So we're not on that side for sure. But I'm right in this section where I want to give people correct information and say, your safety is the most important thing. And I am not living in your shoes. I'm not living in your home. I don't know all your specific circumstances. And so I trust every woman, every victim, to make the best decisions about her particular situation. So I think that's one thing that I'm wondering is like, do you feel supported in your circumstances in where you are right now in the BTR group? Do you feel like you're accepted for the decisions that you're making?

[B]

Yeah. People will always speak from their own inner knowledge or their own feelings, I think. So whatever you put out on a group, expect that response to come from that aspect. You take what you can and leave what you don't need. Like you said, you're the only one that knows what's happening within the relationship. So, yeah, I feel supported because I take what I need from it because I am the only one that knows what's happening and why I stay within my marriage. We've got a lot of financial obligations together. You know, we still have grandchildren that would visit granddad and I'd much prefer to be around. So I know why I stay within my marriage. And I think it's up to every individual person to make that decision.

[A]

Yeah, people who haven't been through it or people who have. I mean, it's just a lot more complex than I think anybody can even wrap their head around. It's such a complex situation, and it unfolds over time. So not everything can be decided in a split second.

[B]

Everything feels split second when you're in it, though, doesn't it?

[A]

It does. And it feels like you have to. It feels like you have to decide or you have to know everything. There's this overwhelming desire to resolve things as quick as possible, whatever resolution means or whatever fixing it means. But it's impossible to resolve or fix quickly. Right? It is a very, very long term, complex problem.

[B]

You know, we found a therapist. We've thrown all the money we can at him.

[A]

So you're still with a man who's continuing to exhibit emotionally abusive behaviors. How do you feel right now?

[B]

Oh, boy. Okay, so we've just had an episode. So everything's a little bit raw for me just now because it's what I think of as a surface person. He wants everything to look great on the outside, that everything's going really well, and that meanwhile he's doing underhanded things and he gets off on knowing that he's getting away with it. So when he becomes overly nice, I then become on guard and I wait for the next influx of abuse, emotional abuse. He doesn't yell, he doesn't do any of that. He just becomes very quiet. We had, we'll say, six months of nice and so I was waiting for it. So just discovered and so we're just going through that now. And he hasn't gone back to see his therapist, so he's just waiting to go back to see her. But it's very difficult because I don't know what she's saying to him or whether he's telling her partial truths. Have I reached some kind of peace within myself? There is peace around our marriage and our life. No, there isn't peace. I'm making do with what I've got because of circumstance. And that's really awful to say because it feels like a half life.

[A]

Do you feel like you're progressing towards something even though current circumstances are what they are? Do you have hope for the future?

[B]

I've got a lot of hope for my future because I'll make the best of my life no matter what. For our marriage and for us together. We are going to have to make a step either away from each other. And I don't think it's going to be too long down the road. There'll be a conversation that I will have with my grown children. They know about his addiction. I just don't really think they realize how far he's gone within that addiction. Yep, I've got peace in me. But within our marriage, not sure. We've got a few really big decisions to come ahead of us which will affect a lot of outcomes for myself and my daughter and him.

[A]

Well, that is what is so awesome if I can praise BTR about btr is that we get it. We get it. We get how complex it is. We get that it takes a long time. We get that sometimes you kind of know what the right thing is or what the thing is you want to do. Not necessarily the right thing, but it's not the right time or other factors. Right. There's just so many complexities to it. And having someone who totally understands and be supportive is really, really helpful. With a long term trial like this, should we call it that? What? Should we call it a long term problem? What would you tell other women? Let's say what you went through in your early 30s. So if someone's listening and that's where they're at, let's say they've just discovered porn for the first time.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. I'm really sorry. This is your journey. Get help, get into immediate help. Find a really good support network. Find somebody you trust to that you can tell absolutely anything to and will not judge and will just be there for you. Find that one person and walk beside them and let them walk beside you because that's going to be the best thing you can do for you, to heal you. And know that it's not your fault. Know that he made choices that has affect both your lives. It's just not your fault though. Don't try and fix him.

[A]

Oh, we've all done that.

[B]

Yep. Yep. If we just do this, if I, I look a bit pretty, if I wear this lingerie, if I do that risky behavior that he would like me to do, that'll make him happy and he won't do it anymore.

[A]

When women go down that road, they end up doing it more or he wants it more. Right. There's no end to it.

[B]

Oh, he wants a bit more freaky. The indulging of their immature behaviors, their man child silliness. And I think that's something we don't realize, isn't it? Is that they get themselves stuck emotionally at the age they start using. So what you're actually doing is complying to a teenager child. And so what happens when a child doesn't get what it wants? It tantrums. And unfortunately a man tantrum is, has bigger impacts because they're disposable to play with like income or whatever it is, you know, that's protecting the family.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well. And also their tantrums are way more sophisticated sometimes. Right. They might not scream and yell and punch the wall, although some of them do that. But their tantrum might look really nice and kind when behind your back they're spending $10,000 of their retirement.

[B]

Yeah. They've got a hidden phone. So they're happy to show you the phone that they've got and all the while feeling quite proud of themselves that they've got a hidden phone and that's what gets them off.

[A]

Exactly. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and spending time with us today. Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group is that amazing place where you can just be yourself and be understood. Is there anything else that you would like to share about the group or about BTR that you have found helpful?

[B]

For me in the early stages and now as sort of. I won't say veteran, but I've been there for a while. This is the place you go to when you need to feel heard, you need to feel safe, you need to be able to reach out, you know, or you just need somebody to say, hey, I'm here for you, or you need to feel loved. Because this group, for me anyway, has provided that get in contact, you know, try and join the group. Because it's just if you want to feel loved, this is where it's at.

[A]

That's good to hear. That's the purpose of btr, is to love women and hope that they love themselves and they can make choices due to that love and that confidence to get them to safety. That's the whole goal.

[B]

So to know you're not alone and that the crazy making that happens sometimes. This group has helped me unravel that craziness as well. This is going on and in your head because they've gaslighted you so much. You're forever double guessing your own mind to notice that. You go in there and somebody says, yep, yep, yep, that's normal. My husband does that. It's like, it's what they do. It's one of their little tactics. And you just come away thinking, oh, okay. And you're able to take a big sigh of relief to think, oh, I'm not that crazy after all.

[A]

Yeah, no, you are not. You are a beautiful, amazing, competent woman. It's a cool place to be, right? It's a cool club to be in with all these awesome women. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story today and we'll see you in Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group.

[B]

Thank you, Ann.

[A]

If you've already purchased a copy of my book Trauma Mama Husband Drama on Amazon, please circle back and give it a five star rating. A lot of women are searching for books to figure out what to do about their husband and rating. Trauma Mama will also help them find this podcast, which is free to everyone. And of course, your donations help keep this podcast going. Go to btr.org, scroll to the bottom and click on support the BTR podcast until next week. Stay safe out there.