Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society

Episode: The Medici vs. Tudor Rivalry
Host: Dr. Kate Lister
Guest: Estelle Paranque, historian & author
Date: February 20, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Kate Lister welcomes historian Estelle Paranque to delve into the intertwined lives, letters, and political gamesmanship of two of the most powerful women of the 16th century: Elizabeth I of England and Catherine de Medici of France. Despite wildly different paths to power and personal philosophies, the two monarchs navigated hostile courts and patriarchal structures with wit, ambition, and, occasionally, pointed correspondence. The episode explores the nuances of their rivalry and rapport, their contrasting roles as “the Virgin and the Widow,” and the political and personal stakes underpinning their infamous exchanges—including their attitudes toward motherhood, sexuality, and the ever-meddlesome Mary, Queen of Scots.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Unlikely Monarchs

• Both Elizabeth I and Catherine de Medici were never expected to rule in their own right but rose to unprecedented power.
  • “Elizabeth was not meant to be queen. I mean, she was in line. But, you know, she should not have ruled, really.” —Estelle Paranque [05:39]
  • Catherine’s journey: orphan → princess → queen consort (overshadowed by Diane de Poitiers) → queen regent.

2. Their Personalities & Paths to Power

• Both mastered survival in a man’s world but through starkly different means:
  • Elizabeth: The “Virgin Queen,” fiercely independent, leveraged marriage negotiations to maintain autonomy.
  • Catherine: The “Queen Mother” and political widow, wielded her role as mother to kings as leverage.
• On the Virgin vs Widow dynamic:
  • “It’s really the virgin versus the widow. It’s really the virgin versus the mother.” —Estelle Paranque [12:48]

3. Attitudes Towards Motherhood & Sex

• The two queens’ views on sex, power, and motherhood were radically different:
  • Catherine saw motherhood as the source of female influence and power: “Power comes through motherhood."
  • Elizabeth countered, emphasizing her own inherent authority: “I’m the daughter of a king. My power comes from me. I don’t need [children].” —Estelle Paranque relaying Elizabeth's vibe [13:12]
  • Notable quote: “My body, my choice. We’re in the 1500s. That’s insane. That’s amazing.” —Estelle Paranque on Elizabeth’s stand to Parliament [09:04]
• Both cite the social and personal pressures women endure regarding marriage and motherhood.

4. Catherine’s Infamous Marriage

• Catherine’s marriage to Henry II was fraught, with the king’s devotion to his older mistress, Diane de Poitiers.
  • Bizarre sexual arrangements involved all three:
    • “She prepares Henry and he finishes in Catherine. That...so hurtful, so humiliating.” —Estelle Paranque [21:10]
  • Kate interjects: “She’s just a semen sucker, that’s what she is.” [21:36]
  • Both hosts reflect on the lack of consent and the use of Catherine’s body as a mere dynastic tool.

5. Diplomatic “Pen Pals”: Letters & Gamesmanship

• Their correspondence began formally, but quickly turned strategic—every written word had layers.
  • “You can almost imagine, like, Elizabeth reading some of the letters and say, ‘Yeah, right, as if I wanted to be you.’” —Estelle Paranque [04:45]
• Catherine persistently pushed marriage between Elizabeth and her sons, tying power to motherhood.
  • Elizabeth strung along proposals for decades, using them for political leverage:
    • “Can you imagine making a man believe that you’re gonna marry him for over ten years? ...She gets the best of both worlds.” —Estelle Paranque [29:51]

6. The ‘Queen’s War’: Politics, Betrayals & Lessons Learned

• Religious civil wars in France drew Elizabeth in; Catherine out-maneuvered her by flipping Protestant allies.
  • “Elizabeth never makes the same mistake twice. She’ll never ever again underestimate Catherine.” —Estelle Paranque [26:34]
• Result: mutual respect but also deep caution and rivalry.

7. Interventions with Mary, Queen of Scots

• Common enemy: Both queens actively sought to thwart Mary’s ambitions due to her connections (Guises, Spanish court) and potential claim to thrones.
  • “What they were fearing... was an alliance between Philip II’s son and Mary Queen of Scots in Scotland. That’s not good for France. That’s not good for England.” —Estelle Paranque [37:03]
• Letters between Catherine and Elizabeth were discreet when discussing Mary, avoiding overt insults for diplomatic safety.
  • “They do not say [bad things] that way, but they do imply that she’s not very smart.” —Estelle Paranque [40:54]
• Both underestimated Mary's cleverness: “She is incredibly smart.” [41:28]

8. End of the Rivalry: Mary’s Execution

• Elizabeth’s execution of Mary, Queen of Scots, was a turning point—Catherine was furious, diplomatic ties broke.
  • “When Mary Stuart is executed, Catherine de Medici is shocked and she thinks that Elizabeth went too far.” —Estelle Paranque [42:18]
  • The execution destabilized France's internal politics and royal authority, giving the ultra-Catholic Guises more power.
• Secret alliance: Henry III of France (Catherine’s son) developed a private, strategic relationship with Elizabeth against mutual enemies.

9. Elizabeth’s Mythic Virginity

• Estelle (supported by evidence) doubts that Elizabeth remained chaste, especially where Robert Dudley is concerned.
  • “Every single royal physician of Elizabeth I had a patron... Robert Dudley.” —Estelle Paranque [47:52]
  • On the truth of Elizabeth’s virginity: “No, I mean, I hope not. I hope not, I hope not.” [47:17]
  • Kate: “At least she got a finger blast. Something, something.” [48:37]

10. Would They Have Gotten Along?

• Despite rivalry, Estelle believes they’d have enjoyed each other’s company:
  • “I think they would have gotten [on]. They had very similar sense of humor, similar wit, and they were both intelligent women.” —Estelle Paranque [48:58]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Female Judgement:
  “Women are very judgy. They’re hella judgy about other women and other women’s choices, and particularly other women’s choices under the patriarchy, when they’re rather constrained.” —Kate Lister [10:27]

• On Political Intrigue:
  “Every decision has a consequence. It’s diplomacy, isn’t it? That’s why I’d be terrible at diplomacy. I’d be awful.” —Kate Lister [28:13]

• On Catherine’s Marital Advice:
  “That’s actually a letter, an exchange letters... power comes through motherhood. It is true for Catherine.” —Estelle Paranque [13:09]
  “But Elizabeth replied, I’m the daughter of a king. My power comes from me. I don’t need [that].” [13:12]

• On Stringing Along French Suitors:
  “She does it because as long as there are marriage negotiations... It means peace. It means that she’s got something they want.” —Estelle Paranque [29:51]

• On the End of the Friendship:
  “After that, they are definitely no more [correspondence]. ...The diplomatic relations [have] completely broken off between the two.” —Estelle Paranque [42:44]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Elizabeth & Catherine’s Unexpected Ascensions: 05:39–06:26
• Motherhood vs. Virginity & Letters: 12:48–13:18
• Catherine’s Marital Ordeals: 19:16–22:09
• First Letters & Start of Political Rivalry: 22:29–25:17
• Religious Wars & Betrayal: 25:17–26:34
• French Marriage Negotiations: 27:46–30:12
• Elizabeth’s Strategic Hold-out: 29:51–30:29
• Mary, Queen of Scots as Frenemy: 36:24–41:27
• Mary’s Execution Fallout: 42:18–43:52
• Elizabeth’s “Virginity” and Dudley: 47:17–48:37
• Would They Have Been Friends?: 48:58–49:16

Tone & Atmosphere

Richly conversational and irreverent, Kate and Estelle balance scholarly analysis with wry humor and modern analogies. The tone is playful (“semen sucker” and jokes about finger-banging), while insights are grounded in research and lively critique of patriarchal history. The banter makes serious historical themes accessible and engaging without sacrificing nuance.

Summary

This episode of Betwixt the Sheets is a dynamic, spirited dive into the rivalry, rapport, and political maneuvering between Elizabeth I and Catherine de Medici. Through their letters, policies, and shared adversaries, the queens exhibit both mutual respect and continual one-upmanship, using every tool at their disposal—motherhood, marriage markets, and even their alleged sexual purity or experience. The episode is packed with revealing anecdotes, sharp feminist commentary, and juicy historical asides, making it a must-listen for anyone fascinated by women’s power and diplomacy in early modern Europe.