The Most Notorious Sex Worker of 18th Century Dublin

Summary

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Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society

Episode: The Most Notorious Sex Worker of 18th Century Dublin

Host: Dr. Kate Lister
Guest: Anthony Delaney
Date: January 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the extraordinary and often mythologized life of Peg Plunkett, the most notorious sex worker of 18th-century Dublin. Host Dr. Kate Lister, joined by Anthony Delaney (host of the sister podcast After Dark), dives into Peg's background, the world she inhabited, her rise to fame and notoriety, her run-ins with Dublin’s elite "Pinking Dindies," her savvy business acumen, and the blurred lines between fact and legend in her celebrated memoirs. The episode delivers a colorful portrait of Peg's resilience and the tumultuous society around her—all with wit, warmth, and sharp historical insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: 18th-Century Dublin Society

[02:00–09:00]

• Dublin in the 18th century was the "second city" of the British Empire after London: rich, cultured, and divided.
• “A very small Protestant elite… are ruling the kingdom of Ireland, basically… [they] are dominating parliament, law, all country administration, even though they are by far the vast minority in the country.” – Anthony Delaney [06:24]
• The majority Catholic population faced legal and social restrictions, creating deep class divides and a flourishing underground, including a vibrant sex industry.

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2. Peg Plunkett: Origins and Family Background

[09:15–14:20]

• Born Margaret Plunkett (possibly in 1727 or 1742; birthdate is disputed due to contradictions in her memoir).
• Raised in County Westmeath; she was one of eight surviving, possibly 22 children.
• Family was “pretty decent” in terms of social standing—a Catholic family that converted to Protestantism to retain land but maintained Catholic practices in secret.
• Suffered severe physical and emotional abuse from her brother Christopher after her mother’s death, which led to her being denied dowries and forced out of her home.

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3. Transition to Sex Work & Dublin’s Underworld

[17:45–22:30]

• Peg left home, sofa-surfing with relatives before moving to Dublin in her late teens or early twenties.
• Initially lived precariously, “selling companionship” on the fringes of society before rising into the ranks of courtesans.
• Quickly became well-known: “She is making her way in this commercial heart of the city... she knows what she has in terms of her own commodification.” – Anthony Delaney [19:16]

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4. Courtesanship, Business Acumen, and the Reality of Sex Work

[22:20–26:50]

• Peg adopted the courtesan model: several patrons, some seeking exclusivity (notably a “Mr. Leeson,” thought to be Joseph Leeson, the 2nd Earl of Milltown).
• She leveraged these connections for status and security but maintained multiple patrons for financial independence.
• “Think about this in terms of businesswoman and the agency… she’s now marketing herself… rebranding herself as Mrs. Leeson.” – Anthony Delaney [23:41]
• Refused shame: “She honestly doesn’t seem to give much of a fuck about this… didn’t she even take clients to court who were violent?” – Kate Lister [25:41]

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5. Legal Action Against the Elite: The Pinking Dindies Incident

[26:51–34:55]

• Peg co-founded a brothel with Sally Hayes, bringing structure and reputation to their establishment.
• In 1779, their house was violently attacked by a gang known as the “Pinking Dindies” (young elite men) led by Richard Crosby.
• Peg sued Crosby for damages, a rare move for a woman and sex worker at the time. She won, and Crosby was imprisoned, although released early due to social status.
  • “She takes him to court. We don’t have the court documents… but we do know what happened and we do know he was taken and we do know she brought the case against him.” – Anthony Delaney [33:55]
• The attack (and her response) marked a turning point, underscoring both her vulnerability and tenacity.

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6. The Memoirs and the Myth

[36:51–44:10]

• Peg’s life story survives mainly through her memoirs, part of the “harlotographies” genre (e.g., alongside Charlotte Hayes, Harriet Wilson).
• “What do you want from a notorious character’s memoirs? You want them to be notorious. So they’re not being sold for being factual and accurate. They’re being sold for the story that they tell.” – Kate Lister [36:51]
• The memoirs are a blend of partial truths, self-mythologizing, and dramatic flair— marketed for public entertainment and Peg’s financial survival.
• Peg’s business sense shines here too: selling her own legend for much-needed funds in her later years.

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7. Later Life, Decline, and Legacy

[44:10–47:49]

• Post-scandal, Peg struggled financially, moving her brothel several times and retired to Black Rock (then a “grand, not bad” area), ultimately living “hand to mouth.”
• Continued to be imprisoned for minor debts, often rescued by friends rather than family.
• “She died in and out of poverty and illness… The reality of her life kind of dissipates. Maybe Peg’s real legacy is this literary invention… she gifts that, I guess, as the last thing.” – Anthony Delaney [46:37]
• Despite a difficult end, Peg’s story endures in Irish history and popular imagination as a testament to her wit, resilience, and refusal to be shamed.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the challenge of facts vs. myth:
  “What we’re going to need to decipher at some point is where the myth making comes in. Because some of the facts here… are not necessarily the most grounded facts.”
  – Anthony Delaney [05:15]

• On survival:
  “Her instinct for survival, both physically and spiritually and, you know, wanting more for herself, is definitely there.”
  – Anthony Delaney [14:15]

• On Peg’s lack of shame:
  “She honestly doesn’t seem to give much of a fuck about this… she doesn’t. There’s no sense of shame.”
  – Kate Lister [25:41]

• On her memoirs:
  “She’s not necessarily a victim of this invention. She’s part of it.”
  – Anthony Delaney [37:15]

• On legacy:
  “What I admire most about her… is her business savvy, her intellect, her ability to make the best of a fucking shit situation.”
  – Anthony Delaney [43:50]

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Key Timestamps

• [01:44] – Introduction to Peg Plunkett, Dublin’s 18th-century elite and city life.
• [09:18] – Peg’s family background and early trauma.
• [17:45] – Peg’s move to Dublin and early days.
• [22:48] – The rise to courtesanship; patrons and business strategies.
• [26:51] – Societal attitudes; Peg’s legal action against abuse.
• [30:38] – The Pinking Dindies attack and ensuing trial.
• [36:51] – The reality behind the memoirs (“harlotographies”).
• [44:10] – Peg’s decline, death, and the endurance of her legend.

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Podcast’s Tone & Final Thoughts

The conversation is lively, humorous (in the best Betwixt style), and deeply empathetic toward its complex, messy subject. Both Lister and Delaney balance fun, irreverence, and thoughtful historical context, making Peg Plunkett feel both larger-than-life and intimately real. Ultimately, Peg’s legacy is not just in the scandals and stories, but in her refusal to be erased or shamed—a “gift” for posterity in the form of an unforgettable tale.

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Recommended for: Anyone interested in women’s history, sex work, Irish social history, or how legends are created from the messy fringes of the past.

Transcript

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[Kate Lister]

Hello my lovely betwixters. It's me, Kate Lister. Welcome back to Betwixt the Sheets. That's not the new theme tune, surprisingly. But before we can go any further together, I do have to tell you once again and forevermore, this is an adult podcast book about other adults, about adulty things in an adulty way, covering a range of adult subjects. And you should be an adult too. That's just to keep everybody safe and snuggly. Do you feel safe and snuggly? Well, I certainly do. Right, let's crack on. If there's one thing you notice from strolling around Dublin in the mid 18th century, it is the glossy veneer of a well to do society. Look around you. These impressive houses are standing very tall, very on point, very Regency chic, with society's finest milling about. But as you can imagine, beneath that fair facade looks something rather murky. And what we See before us is far from the full story. Look behind these fancy doors and you will see that this enormous wealth divide has created, amongst all other things, a thriving sale in sex. And one of the most notorious sex workers of 18th century Dublin was none other than Peg Plunket. Try saying that five times fast. Hers is a vibrant but tragic story and we know all about it because Peg was kind enough to write her memoirs. Are you ready to find out more? Well, I know I am. Hello and welcome back to Betwixt the Sheets, the history of sex scandal in society with me, Kate Lister. As you well know, listeners, you don't have to ask me twice to explore the life of one of history's most famous sex workers. I'm always there for that. And in today's episode, we are getting to know that the marvellous, the fantastic Peg Plunkett. It's difficult to say fast, I'm telling you. Try it anyway. Peg, she was a sex worker, a courtesan in Dublin in the mid 18th century, a time when the city was known as the British Empire's second city after London. But what was life like at the time for those who weren't super rich? What was Peg's story? Where did she come from? What was her tale? How did she end up in sex work? Who were her clients? And what did she have to say about all of it? Well, joining me today is the spectacularly fabulous Anthony Delaney, host of the sister podcast After Dark. He's also the author of the marvelous Queer Jordans, a hidden history of lovers, lawbreakers and homemakers. So if anyone can tell us about Peg, it's Anthony. Right, let's do it. Well, hello and welcome to Betwixt the Sheets. It's only Anthony Delaney. How you doing? Lovely.

[Anthony Delaney]

Good. Kate, Genevieve Lister. How are you? I don't know what your middle name is, but that's what it is.

[Kate Lister]

Now, I'm a woman that was born in the 80s, so it's Louise.

[Anthony Delaney]

Of course.

[Kate Lister]

Obviously. Of course it is.

[Anthony Delaney]

What else would it be?

[Kate Lister]

There was one middle name doing the rounds then.

[Anthony Delaney]

Even my middle name is Louise. I too was born in the 80s.

[Kate Lister]

Everybody, they just went, Louise. Yeah, fuck it, that's what we'll do.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kate Lister]

We are here to talk about a woman with quite an extraordinary name, though.

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, quite a few extraordinary names, actually, which is one of the problems that we'll encounter. Yeah, Peg Plunkett, short for Peggotty Plunkety. No, it's not. That's not what it's short for at all. Peggotty.

[Kate Lister]

Louise Plunkety.

[Anthony Delaney]

Peggotty Louise Plunkety. She is, as everyone from Ireland listening is going, oh, God, what is he saying? She is a really interesting person, as we're about to discover. But what we're going to need to decipher at some point is where the myth making comes in. Because some of the facts here, Kate, are not necessarily the most gr. Grounded facts.

[Kate Lister]

I know, but it's a fun story, though. But the story is the Peg Plunkett was the most famous courtesan in Ireland in the 18th century. She ran through the great and the good and she stuck two fingers up at royalty and she just, you know, it's like Moll Flanders. That's the story, isn't it?

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. And. And you know what, in terms of that, there's truth in. In some of those. Although. Oh, good. I don't think she ever really met royalty. I think that's. That's a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It. Because, yeah, anyway, but that's that. But, but those other bits, I think we can say that summation is pretty true. But I mean, if it makes sense. Because what I want to kind of highlight at the beginning is to start with telling a little bit about 18th century Ireland as opposed to 18th century Britain, because I think people are more familiar with what's happening in England rather than what's happening in Ireland. And it is its own microcosm unto itself. So what we have in the 18th century in Ireland is this very small Protestant elite which is under British, and they are ruling the kingdom of Ireland, basically. Now it is formally a kingdom, but in practice it's governed by the British, as I said, and all of political power lands with this small Protestant ruling class, which is known as the Protestant ascendancy. And the ascendancy bit basically comes into. We are ascending into power and they are dominating parliament law, all, you know, country administration, even though they are by far the vast minority in the country. So it's estimated that 90% of the land in Ireland was ruled by 10% of the population, them being the Protestant population. So we have a lot of restrictions on the Catholic majority. They are legally restricted in many ways through the penal laws, which we're a bit familiar with in England too. They can't sit Catholics can't sit in parliament, they can't hold public offices, they can't serve as army officers. They can inherit land, but only in very specific ways. So say, for instance, you know, the usual inheritance thing is the eldest son gets the land and then that passes on through the generation, the land stays intact, and that's really important. But for Catholic inheritors, what happens is it has to be divided between all the sons or all the daughters if there's no sons. So what the Protestant ascendancy are trying to do is break up the land so that Irish Catholics can't dominate or can't ever get back in power. So it's a pretty restrictive place for Irish Catholics. And this story is mostly going to unfold in Dublin, although it's not where it starts. This is a wealthy colonial capital, but only for some. So in the same way as London is, it is the second largest city in the British Empire at this time, after London, of course. And we're dealing with, you know, incredible Georgian streets, which you can still come and visit in Dublin. There they are incredible. When I'm staying in Dublin, if I'm home, I stay on Henrietta Street. And it is just the center of the Georgian world back in the 18th century. And we have theaters, coffee houses, elegant towns houses. But of course, this prosperity is only concentrated amongst certain of the ruling elite. And so that's Dublin. And we have this kind of social mix going on. And it's brilliant, it's lively, it's colorful, but at the same time, it has this kind of downtrodden side for people like Peg, as she's coming in. A lot of poverty, a lot of struggle. And this is the world that Peg eventually comes into, but it's not where she's from.

[Kate Lister]

Tell us, where does Peg come from?

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, she is born Margaret Plunket. We do know this.

[Kate Lister]

Oh, she really is a Plunkett. That wasn't a stage name.

[Anthony Delaney]

She. Well, interesting. From what we can tell. Yes, yes, she is a Plunket. She was born in County Westmeath, which isn't too far from Dublin. And she is supposedly, she says herself, born in 1727. Now, this is where the question marks start to arise. Her lifespan is given officially as 1727-1797. The main source of information we have for peg plumkit, or Mrs. Leeson, as we'll come to know her throughout this episode, is given to us through her memoirs. Right. But we cannot get the memoirs to match up chronologically with a lifespan. It doesn't make any sense. So we have 1727 as the birth date. Some people say it's 17 and some people say it's 1742. Scholars that have actually researched the life in depth. I don't really know where to make the call, to be honest, Kate, because she says 1727. So therefore, I want to lean towards 1727. But it doesn't make sense in the course of her life that she would be born in 1727. And we know she died in 1797, so we know the end date is true. So it's very disputed. But anyway, look, that's there.

[Kate Lister]

She wouldn't be the first sex worker to change her age, though. But it's slightly odd she'd make herself older.

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, I'm not a sex worker and I've changed my age quite recently. I was talking to somebody literally this weekend and they were just like, what age are you? And I was like, 42. And they were like, wait, you told me that you were 38. I was like, maybe I did, yes, at some point. But I'm not. I'm 42. And that's what we're going with. So that's true, because now it's on Wikipedia. Somebody very cleverly put my actual date of birth on Wikipedia. So I can't deny it anymore. I know, right, okay. But anyway, yeah, look, so she's. Something is going on there with this, with. And we'll come back to this, we'll talk about it. But her family's place in Irish society is pretty decent. She's one of eight surviving children of a man named Matthew Plunkett, who's a wealthy farmer and a woman whose first name we don't know. But she's Ms. A. O'Reilly. And we are told by Peg herself later in her life that Ms. A. O'Reilly has connections related also of the Earl of Cavan, no less.

[Kate Lister]

Oh, did she now?

[Anthony Delaney]

But we can't prove that in any way, shape or form. Now, she is Catholic, so I told you about the different restrictions that are put on 18th century Irish Catholics. But the family, it seems, converted to Protestantism in order to retain the land. That wasn't wholly unusual, but they were secretly still practicing Catholics. So, you know, it's a tumultuous time politically. They are trying to navigate their way through that. But as so often happens just in life generally, things start to fall apart within the family following the death of her mother because her father is then incapacitated. And Peg has to deal really with her brother Christopher becoming the head of the family. And he is abusive. He is physically abusive as well as very controlling. So we have two accounts where she is landed in bed by his physical abuse, either for up to 10 weeks in one instance and then three months in another instance. Yeah, so we're talking about really serious abuse here. And it seems to track because that same kind of abuse carries through into some of the other girls, his other sisters. So he's a real fucking shit. Like it's, you know, bad what's going on there. And he has a real control issue because the girls are quite marriageable in 18th century terms. But he is picky and choosy as to which ones he lets marry because he is now, the father's still alive, interestingly, but he's incapacitated. As I say, we're not sure how that has presented itself. We're not sure why he's not running the farm himself and the lands and the money. But the brother is withholding dowries. And you know, Peg definitely, yeah, Peg definitely had the option for respectable marriage. It was there. There was one guy who, listen, this is how 18th century marriage often goes. He was an elderly shopkeeper and he was lovely. She says he was nice and he was a nice guy. He wasn't particularly good looking or anything. She wasn't fancy, she didn't fancy him. But it was certainly there. There was another guy who she did really, really fancy. And as a matter of fact, it went to breach of promise because he went off and had a child with somebody else. But he did offer to marry her before all this happened, but the brother withheld the dowry so they couldn't get married. So she's trapped in this really abusive family dynamic. And we think that bit is true. We were not sure about the connections to the Earl of Cavan. They must have been somewhat wealthy enough to, you know, comfortable, kind of middle class, I guess. But it's a bad situation.

[Kate Lister]

She's one of like 22 children.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes, there is a thought that she was one of about 22, but only eight survive. But that number comes from her. And we can't verify that number at all.

[Kate Lister]

It's not the highest I've heard. Like it's a lot.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, I've heard more. Irish Catholics will give you a run for your money when it comes to it, but not me personally, but other people. And it just, it really says something about. And bear this in mind as we go through this kind of self mythologizing that's happening with Peg's story. I'm not talking about the abuse, I'm talking about that 22 children thing where, you know, it's this vast army almost and then only eight of them survive. And when we come to talk about Peg's own children, we find something very similar where it's really difficult to know which children she's talking about how many children she had, who she had them with, and in certain instances, as we'll see towards the end of this story, if she even had them at all. I mean, we know she had some children, but we can't be so sure. So this is the background that she's coming from. It's pretty grim. Even if there is money there, which there seems to be, it's very, very grim. And her instinct for survival, both physically and spiritually and you know, wanting more for herself is definitely there. She definitely has that. And so that's why we're draw to her, right, because she has this instinct to survive.

[Kate Lister]

I'll be back with Anthony and Peg after this short break.

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[Kate Lister]

So what happens Then she's living with this asshole brother who's pulling strings to prevent her from getting married, which is. That's, you know, that was a pretty good deal if you were a middle class, impoverished girl in Ireland or anywhere at this time, is to marry someone who had a shop. And that was kind of you done. But that's not going to happen. So. So how does she go from this situation to where she ends up?

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, she has this thing where she's like, I need to go home, I can't go home. I need to go home, I can't go home. And finally she's, you know, she's down on her luck and she's stayed with relatives and then that all kind of runs out. And the respectable thing to do, even if it's not the safe thing to do, is to go home. So she tries to go home, but Christopher doesn't take her back. He won't let her back into her house.

[Kate Lister]

Basically sofa surfing with relatives.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, more or less. And he really focuses on Peg, by the way, as well as the other sisters, but on Peg's particularly. He's like, you, you are not coming back into this house. And so she essentially gets kicked out and she goes to, you know, it's very similar to what you'd hear in an English history. She goes to the big city. She goes to Dublin to try and make something. Yeah, exactly. Now, we don't know exactly what age she is at this point. We don't know the dates exactly, but we think realistically she's probably mid to late teens or early 20s, because she's had a bit of a life. She's had marriage proposals come in. We know the first marriage proposal that she had was when she was 14, which is shocking to us, but not necessarily that unusual in the context of the early 18th century. But she arrives in Dublin in a time, as I say, that was, you know, full and busy and exciting. We have taverns and theaters and lodging houses. And then we have this idea that sex, work and entertainment are overlapping with those more regulated establishments. So we have the bars that are regulated and that they have their permits and we have the ones that don't. And that's often where the most fun entertainment is happening. It's also where sex workers are often working from. And in her memoir, she describes this kind of progression when she arrives to Dublin first, where she's in precarious lodgings. So she's kind of making do as much as she can and, you know, she's being on a date basically. For men of a certain class, but very middling class. And then we start to see relatively quickly this rise to more comfortable quarters. Her income improves, the addresses are better. So what we're finding is she's making her way in this commercial heart of the city. She is becoming part of that commercial heart and she's making it work for her because she's savvy, she's business minded, she knows what she has in terms of her own commodification.

[Kate Lister]

Is she selling sex at this point?

[Anthony Delaney]

So she's selling companionship. We know that she says she's not selling sex necessarily, but the likelihood is she probably is. I think in terms of 18th century sex work, we don't see this delineation between a companion for dates and outings and sex work very clearly. No. So it's probably likely that she is. Although in her memoirs, she doesn't make that explic it. But once we know that she's moved up into that world of sex worker to what we term as the courtesan, then she is more explicit about the fact that sex work is involved in what she is doing. So she now has private apartments. So these men from the upper middle and even gentry, apparently are giving her private quarters. She has a set of regular patrons. So just to make clear, often when we talk about a courtesan, it is an exclusive courtesanship. So I will only go with the Lord of Wherever or I will only be his. But in Peg's case, we don't have that same exclusivity, although certain men do try to ask her to provide that for them. She doesn't feel safe. And I don't necessarily mean physically, although I'm sure that comes into it too. Financially, she finds that too precarious, even if in the short term it will give her even more power. But she's like, if you turn your back on me, I need to have two or three other people going at the same time. And she does. Yeah. And it gives her a little bit of financial independence to have that. To have that kind of ensemble of people that she's working with. This is where people start to notice her and where she starts to appear in other sources apart from her own memoirs. So this is where we can corroborate some of what she's saying. She's definitely well known. She's particularly well liked by a lot of people across the. You know, you might think there is judgment going on here, and there is to a certain extent, in certain quarters. But overall, amongst the people in the entertainment quarter, in the sex work quarter, and even at elite parts of society are up for a bit of crack. Peg is the person you want to be around. She's one of the girls that you want to be around. And she, she has this security. Although I. It's really important in Peg's story to bear in mind that that security that she does earn is never permanently secure. It can go so, so quickly. So it's.

[Kate Lister]

And it does thing in it. This is because it's all. If you're going to be a professional paid mistress, like, you can make bank with that. But as you say, it's all dependent on. On the man still wanting to fund you, fund your lifestyle. And you've got to be very careful with that stuff.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. And as I said to you before, there are men who come in and you're like, no, you're exclusive to me. And one of those people was a Mr. Leeson. Now, this is a person that Peg names herself in the memoirs. And it's really important, I think, and it's really interesting to remember that Peg is writing this or it's been written on her behalf. Again, we'll come back to that. And. And she chooses to name some people by their real names and others not. And historians have had a really tough time trying to decipher who's real and who isn't. So apparently we have a wealthy merchant called Mr. Leeson. Now, we can't quite pin that down, but historians think she may be referring to Joseph Leeson, who was the second Earl of Milltown. Now, when you're talking prominent In Dublin, in 18th century Dublin society, there ain't many more prominent than Joseph Leeson.

[Kate Lister]

Okay? He's swinging big dicks.

[Anthony Delaney]

He is swinging his own big dick wherever he wants to be swinging it. And he is essentially shaping 18th century Dublin in building terms, in money terms, in sociability terms. He is one of the makers, right? And he asks for exclusivity through her. And because of his. If it is the second Earl of Milton, and there's a reason to believe that it is because she restyles herself as Mrs. Leeson at this point. Not unusual for courtesans to do that. They want to show who their patron is, essentially because it gives them power, it gives them status, and she's rebranding herself. Now think about this in terms of businesswoman and the agency, however limited it might have been for women in the 18th century, and particularly maybe sex workers in the 18th century, she's using what agency she has. She's now marketing herself as well as providing service as well as being able to make decent book. She's now marketing and using publicity to get a name out there that she is Mrs. Leeson. She is moving at that level of society now. So this looks good. But she hasn't let some of the other regulars go. I think she kept two on. It's unclear exactly but I think there was two other men she kind of kept on in the background and it was a good thing she did because Leeson becomes very jealous because he gets to find out about these other two guys and it ends in a big blow up, a big bust up and he wants nothing more to do with her. She's kicked out of her apartments that he's paying for, dammit. And it all kinds of falls apart. So it does go to show. Listen, if it was the second Earl of Milltown, of course she's going to take this position. Of course she's going to provide the service where she can. But she's also smart enough to know I cannot rely on this. I'm not just giving this over. So I'm gonna keep the others on in the background. And it turns out she was right because this is the. She knows the inevitability of what's about to happen even when she's attached to Leeson. So she's a smart cookie.

[Kate Lister]

I think one of the things I really like about Peg's story again if it's true because you've gotta be careful with all this stuff. But she doesn't. There's no sense of shame with this. There's no sense of like oh, maybe I shouldn't be doing. Which sort of very much stands in. In opposition to 18th century, 19th century narratives around people selling sex. Now they should be ashamed and fallen women out of terrible. Is she honestly doesn't seem to give much of a fuck about this. Like didn't she even take clients to court who were violent to her?

[Anthony Delaney]

She did. And we'll come to that in just a second. But just to say in terms of the 18th century at this particular point, let's say the 1720s, this is the time of the Reformation for the Society for the Reformation of Manners and they are going around absolute dry arses and they're doing exactly what you are saying. And I just. They were doing it in molly houses in London and they were doing it. They had branches in Dublin too. And they're doing exactly what you just said, moralizing, hand wringing.

[Kate Lister]

Oh these, these terrible moral police basically, but very dangerous. Like they weren't just going around tutting at people. They were instigating raids into gay subculture and targeting people selling sex and making sure that they were prosecuted. They were really nasty, these people.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, it's that thing of going, and we hear it today, right, this, this Christian morality as the spine of action. And actually what they're doing is incredibly cruel, incredibly divisive, incredibly dehumanising to so many people. And this is all done in the name of Christianity. And that's certainly what's happening around now. Peg doesn't fall suspect to that herself, to that society, but she is arrested a couple of times. But because of her high connections, nothing ever comes of it. But we see her pop up in the record every now and again, again. So we know she's existing, but she always seems to get away with stuff. But this is where. Where that legal case that you're talking about starts to come in. Because once the Earl of Milltown says, right, out of my apartments, she has no other choice but to set up with another courtesan who must have found herself also kicked out or whatever it was. But her name was Sally Hayes. And together they came again. This, you know, this business sense, they come together and they go, right, we've reached that level now of courtesanship where we've had the major patrons. Now we need to do something that's a little bit more for us. And they set up a house of their own on Drogheda street, which will cater for upper middle class to elite men. It's an organised establishment. It is right at the heart of Dublin's social district. The women there are paid to live on the premises. Well, they receive part of money from the income that they generate themselves. So it's not that they're paid by Peg, but, you know, they get a percentage of what they earn. But they are also due to Peg on Peg and Sally for their food, for clothing and for most of all, protection. She does create this measure of security and community that maybe she was missing when she had to kind of find this way on her own. Now, she's by no means the first person that's opening what was termed a brothel at that point, but she's definitely doing it in a more organized way. She has a public reputation as a businesswoman. She is appearing in contemporary satirical writing and other people are, you know, talking about her, but she is a recognized figure in Dublin's demimond. She. I mean, it's fair to say, I think, that she's notorious for rather than famous or but she's certainly not anonymous. You know, she knows she has a place in Dublin society. So let's talk about that legal case that you mentioned, because it is. I think this is the. I think this is why we're left with a memory of Peg. I think had she been a normal sex worker, a courtesan, and had she run a house, we might not. There was women doing that. But because of this, this is how we remember her. So she is in her house that she shares with Sally Hayes on Drogheda street. And there was. She was closing down for the night. She was essentially. The way it kind of looks in the source material is that she was sitting down by the fire for the night. The windows had been closed over, the fire was on, there was a few candles going. There's this real sense of relaxation that she gives that, you know, I've done my day's work, I'm about to close in. There was a group of privileged rich men that Peg refers to as the Pinking Dindies. Now we think that that is the Pinking Dandies. You know, it's what we're trying to. I think what they're trying to do there shows Peg's accent, that she had this very kind of thick Irish accent. So they call them the Pinking Dindies. And they are a loose group of upper class young men in 18th century Dublin, sons of the Protestant elite. So this ascendancy I talked about at the beginning, they're at Trinity College, which is like Oxford or Cambridge and Ireland. They're officers and gentleme and they have time and Kate, they have money to waste. And I mean, things never change, do they? And the way they do that is by interfering with people they see as beneath them. So they're famous for what?

[Kate Lister]

A nice group of people.

[Anthony Delaney]

I mean, think, think, I suppose. Think Bullingdon.

[Kate Lister]

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of. Just like, we're rich, we're a bit bored, and we're assholes. So we're gonna go and pick on people.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, and we're gonna pick on the people that are vulnerable potentially, as far as we see them drinking, rioting. Interestingly, they had a habit of attacking brothels specifically, although they also used brothels. So it's this strange thing that they're doing to themselves. Yeah. Historians basically feel. And it adds up, right. Historians have said in the past that they just saw themselves above the law. And of course they did. That's exactly what we're doing. So the night of this particular. We know we're in 1779. We don't have an exact date, but we're in 1779. Now, what I want you to bear in mind. Mind is if Peg was born when she says she was born in 1727, she would have been 52 at this point. Right, okay. And that makes sense in terms of where she would be socially now and. And what she would have achieved and that she would be running a house of her own. But then there's some elements of this story that don't quite make sense, but we'll. We'll come to it. Some of it is definitely true, though. So it's the evening, some evening, we don't know when, in 1779. And the dindies are heard out around Drogheda Street. They are causing havoc. And Peg knows they're coming for her because they know they attack brothels. And so she's preparing herself. They smash in the door, they smash down all the windows. That's her evening, her quiet, peaceful evening that she was planning on gone. They vandalize all her furniture, and they assault the women that they find there while they're terrorizing the neighborhood, and they also assault. Now, Peg gives a really pretty intense account of the violence in her memoir. And you can read that for free online, by the way. So it's worth having a look over. It's easy to read. It's quite digestible. And one of the things to bear in mind at this point, If Peg is 52, she says that she was pregnant during this attack and that as a result of this attack, later on when she gave birth, she gave birth to a stillborn child. But there is also an account that says that didn't happen, but that there was a child within the house who was murdered as a part of the tensions and the violence and the abuse that was going on in there. So there's something going on with a child that dies because of this. Either way, it's utterly tragic. And we know that the person at the. The head of this gang of idiots is a man named Richard Crosby. Now, if you Google Richard Crosby or go on the Irish Dictionary of Biography, whatever it's called, you will maybe know this name already because he is an aeronautical triumph in 18th century Ireland. He is the first Irishman to make a manned balloon flight, and that's why he's famous. But he is arrested for this because, as you say, Peg pushes that. He cannot be allowed to get away with this. She is not the first person to do this, by the way. She's not even the first sex worker to do this. Other sex workers had done it. But she really uses her notoriety to make sure it's a high profile event when she does this. So people know about it. She takes him to court. We don't have the court documents. The court documents are very, very scatty. But we do know what happened and we do know he was taken and we do know she brought the case against him. So we have the bare minimum. There is no mention in the official court documents about murder or the death of another child. That doesn't appear there. It's only in Peg's memoir and then in something else that's written much later. So that's where the confusion comes around that historians question whether or not Peg could have been pregnant if she was 52. And that's why some historians have said, well, unlikely, not impossible, but it's unlikely. Right? Yeah. And so that's why historians have moved her date of birth. I don't know if we should do that, to be honest. I think if she tells us it's 1727, we have to go with 1727. I don't think we can like retrospectively go. Actually, it would make more sense if she was born in 1746. So we'll just say 1746, you know what I mean? Like, even if there's a few things that might help, you know, and this is one of the instances that they use to say, well, actually she could only have been around this age when this happened, so she was probably going.

[Kate Lister]

To also have been lying for dramatic effect.

[Anthony Delaney]

She could. And I know that sounds really harsh. And people were saying, well, why would you not believe that she had lost this child or there was a child lost? And we'll talk about this as a kind of a rounding up thing maybe at the end. But the nature of 18th century memoir writing is exactly that. It's to give adventure story. It's to pull at the heartstrings. It's not about truth.

[Kate Lister]

I'll be back with Anthony and Peg after this short break.

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[Anthony Delaney]

Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

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[Kate Lister]

Peg's memoirs is one of a series of. They were called Harlotographies of where infamous sex workers. There was Charlotte Hayes, there was Harriet Wilson, and they all publish their memoirs. And what do you want from a notorious character's memoirs? You want them to be. Be notorious. So they're not being sold for being factual and accurate. They're being sold for the story that they tell.

[Anthony Delaney]

And while there's truths smattered in there. And actually, you and I have spoken about this before because we've spoken about the memoirs of the Chevalier Dion, and that is a good 90% not true. And it's more easily, factually checked because the Chevalier was more famous than Peg was. But the memoir writing is, as you say, it's adventure story. And Peg is benefiting from that too, by the way, because she's getting paid to sell these memoirs. So, you know, she's not necessarily a victim of this invention. She's part of it. But definitely there was a case. She won the case. Crosby Gigopeg Crosby was imprisoned. However, there was some kind of an exchange that happened between Peg and Crosby, and they ended on pretty decent terms. She shook his hand and essentially forgave him. He was let out early anyway because, you know, of his social status and all that kind of a thing. It seems unlikely to me that if there had been an infanticide or that the child had been killed in utero, that she would have been happy enough to just turn around and shake his hand and be like, let's just get a hug.

[Kate Lister]

That may have been some creative license to have made that particular assault seem even more horrendous.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah. And that's not to say there were not assaults and that they didn't have. And here's the thing. This assault changed Peg's life. This marks a real turning point in her career. And I think it makes more sense that she Is older because of what happens next. So. So because of the demolition that happens. Well, demolition is a strong word. The bricks and mortar are still standing. But because of the chaos that happens within the house on Drogheda Street, Peg and Sally have to move their establishment elsewhere. And what keeps happening is they keep having to move it. Now any business will kind of tell you that's not good for business because you can be forgotten about. You can easily just get lost. They go to Wood street and then Pitt street, which is, if you know, Dublin, on the site of the Westbury Hotel today. So these are. These are still good locations. But it's, you know, the moving around is. Is not necessarily great for business. And so we see that this is a turning point for her. Things become far more precarious. Even though she has her own business, it's starting to lose money. You know, I suppose there's an element, and this is conjecture on my behalf, but, you know, it's. It's worth saying, I suppose she's taken this man to court, this powerful man to court, I suppose. What do you think, Kate? If that gives you a reputation, going, oh, maybe we can't trust her as much to be used to anymore.

[Kate Lister]

Entirely possible, I think. I mean, there's a few things that are going on here is she's probably discovering what a lot of people do when they're selling sex, which is that you peak quite early and then, you know, life experience and things kick in and you're getting a bit older and, you know, every trash can has its lid. But by and large is the market is for younger people. And if she's getting into her 50s and beyond by this point, and of course then you're tired and your knees are given out and all the rest of it. So like, the client pool starts to dry up and you've got to try and move, move into brothel keeping itself. And if she has a reputation as somebody that is willing to press charges, somebody that has a connection with the police, I don't think that would be great for business. I can't imagine clients going, yeah, let's definitely go here.

[Anthony Delaney]

And here's the thing that's such a good point because I suppose if she had been, sadly, if she had been 30 and taken that case, they might have been still like, yeah, but she's still an absolute right. I'm still gonna go over to entirely possible. But then because of, as you say, every bin of the lid. And I've never heard that saying, but I very much enjoy it. And you Know, if we're.

[Kate Lister]

There's always a market.

[Anthony Delaney]

There's always a market, absolutely. Let's say she is 52 when that attack happens. And let's say she moves three times then thereafter. So let's say by the time she comes to that last place, she's probably 60 or in her 60s. And so what it's described to us as is she starts to retire. So it makes sense in terms of what you're saying. There's a retirement coming in, so she retires to this place that's now very bougie, but at the time would have been grand, like, not bad. But it's called Black Rock and she is hard up for cash at this point. It's hand to mouth now and she sells her memoirs to make money. And again, but I love this for her because it's that same thing. It's when, you know, when you leave a girl band, as I have so often done, when you leave a girl band, you write the memoir, don't you? You write the biography and you get your million quid deal and you do whatever you do. So she's just using what's at her disposal to see her through a comfortable retirement in that sense, and I admire that from her. May. Maybe this is a good time to talk a little bit more about those memoirs. Like we were saying in terms of how a Peg may not have actually written this herself, she may have sold the rights, essentially. It didn't work in the same way, but given permission for it to happen and fed the information to somebody. She may have partially written them or she may have entirely written them herself. We don't know. She was definitely literate, so she could have had. But one of the things to point out here is that if somebody is after Peg's memoirs, it means she is important to enough. She's well known enough and she's famous enough and interesting enough for people to want to read what she has to say. So she has a status still, despite the penury and despite all of that, she still has a place in society. But as you were saying earlier, Kate, this is reconstructed conversations, altered timelines, and we definitely see that in Peg's story and heightened dramas to make this story engaging. It is seen as a literary production. And even the people who would have been reading them at the time understood what the exchange was. They knew that this was. Although part of the fun was. But which bits are true, though? Like who's Mr. Leeson actually? Or who's this other guy? Or like. Cause they know there's gonna be true things there, but they just have to kind of decipher that for themselves. And it's not necessarily always very straightforward, but that is the main thrust of Peg's life. Now. The weird thing about it is she looms relatively large in Irish history still.

[Kate Lister]

That is true.

[Anthony Delaney]

Like, we know when it comes to 18.

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[Anthony Delaney]

People know who P.E. plunkett is, and, you know, if they don't, they know who Mrs. Leeson is. So we have that kind of idea of who she might be. But I think it says something about how unclear the Irish 18th century is. And she really personifies that in many ways. And as a result, though, somebody needs to make this biography because you can do what you like with it.

[Kate Lister]

Yes, that is true.

[Anthony Delaney]

Because she did.

[Kate Lister]

That is true. Do anything that you want.

[Anthony Delaney]

You could. You could. Historic, novel, whatever it is. And I feel like that would be part of Peg's legacy because she was doing the same thing herself. But what I admire most about her, I think, is her business savvy, her intellect, her ability to make the best of a fucking shit situation that is.

[Kate Lister]

Was it a big hit, her memoirs? Was it?

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, there was a few. A few additions, yeah.

[Kate Lister]

Big success.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah. And as I say, it keeps going into the 19th century and drops off a little bit in the 20th century, but it's having a bit of a resurgence again. It's free online. You can listen to the audiobook version of it. The historical analysis of her by historians has a finite use because there are so few documents beyond her memoirs that it's a bit like, oh, God, I don't know what's going on.

[Kate Lister]

So we know she was real.

[Anthony Delaney]

We know she was real. We do know she was real. We know she was a courtesan. We know there was a case. So the pillars are certainly true. It's the decoration that she adds around it is brilliant and good for her.

[Kate Lister]

If you were being paid to write a memoir of your book and you had to, like, recollect to an argument you had 40, 30 years ago, I. I'll put my hands up. I would absolutely trash the other person. I would make it up entirely. I'm sure that I would.

[Anthony Delaney]

And also because you would have been in the right. Of course.

[Kate Lister]

Of course I'd have been in the right.

[Anthony Delaney]

So, you know, it doesn't really make a difference if you're making it up. It's still the right thing to do. Yeah. I don't know. Nobody's going to ever ask me for my memoir. It'd be so Boring. But like if they did, I'd make. I guess. Yeah, it was just like.

[Kate Lister]

But you'd have to like spice it up a bit.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, I'd really have to. It'd be so boring.

[Kate Lister]

That's not true. It's not true. He's not boring. But do we know what happened to Peg after she had her literary smash? Did she get to retire and put her feet up in a nice old folks home or.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, no, she didn't. I mean, it wasn't. Listen, it wasn't terribly bad. It was as you might expect, bad. She had kept the brothel for years, as we know. She became. Things became increasingly precarious. She had that fall grace, she had the case. And then we know that she died in and out of poverty and illness. She had been imprisoned a couple of times for debt, although people always came to a rescue for that. And she died. We know she died in 1797. I had a look for this because I was like, oh, go on, let's see if I can find out where she was buried. And I can't really find anything. And I think that says something about maybe this, maybe Peg's real legacy is this literary invention that she has, that she has invented around herself because the reality of her life kind of dissipates. And you know what, as well, Kate, as I'm chatting to you here about it, maybe she was giving people a bit of a gift as well. Like she was known for the crack in her day and that's what she wanted to leave people with, a bit of crack. Because actually the reality of what she would have experienced would have been tough as nails.

[Kate Lister]

Yes, it would. A lot of it would. And that's not what the audience want to hear from those kind of memoirs. They just don't.

[Anthony Delaney]

And so she gifts that I guess as the last thing and so we lose trace of her. But we know she was in and out of prison for debt. But again, I suppose it's important to point out that for somebody of her class at this point during her retirement, it's not necessarily all that unusual that that might happen. And she had friends that would. Not family mind, but she had friends that came to a rescue of those people who may have been patrons in the past or other girls who maybe were aware of her reputation. We don't actually know, but she certainly wasn't able to afford to get herself out. And. And she was taken out of the prison because the debts would be paid. And we're not talking huge debts here, we're talking food Debts, we're talking clothing debts. We're talking, you know, rental debts, we're talking the very basics. And so, yeah, and so she kind of disappears after that. So she doesn't go out in a blaze of glory. But as I say, the legacy is brilliant and glittering and fantastic and fun and camp and all of those things. And sexy. And so maybe she wants us to have that version of her end rather than maybe what actually happened.

[Kate Lister]

I think that's true. Oh, Anthony, you've been so much fun to talk to. I knew that you would be. If people want to know more about.

[Anthony Delaney]

Hit or listen to him. He's loads of things. Any day could just take a turn for the worst.

[Kate Lister]

Don't listen to him. He's fabulous fun. If people want to know more about you and your work, where can they find you?

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, they can head on over there to good old After Dark and listen to the old stuff that we do over there. I've heard of it. Yeah, no, I've been around it a couple of times.

[Kate Lister]

Rather mild.

[Anthony Delaney]

And then you can find me on social media. Niedelaneyhistory.

[Kate Lister]

Well, will you come back and tell us more scandalous history another time? Because we have so much fun when you're here.

[Anthony Delaney]

Of course I will. And you know what? We should do it in a pub or something. We should get ourselves an owl drink, sit down and record a podcast.

[Kate Lister]

I don't think so. History hit down the pub.

[Anthony Delaney]

The producers are now going, anthony, stop saying stuff that you know we can't make happen. We can't do recording.

[Kate Lister]

We can't make that happen. That's you, me, a pint and a recorder. That is easily done, that one. Right, well, until then, thank you so much. You've been marvelous.

[Anthony Delaney]

Thanks for having me.

[Kate Lister]

Thank you for listening and thank you so much to Anthony for joining us. And if you like what you heard, don't forget to like, review and follow along whatever it is you get. Your podcasts. Coming up. We have got an episode on just how filthy were the Victorians and the first in our brand new miniseries of history's worst ever breakups, starting with none other than Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon, of course, of course they're there. They don't get much worse than that. Or do they? But if you want us to explore a subject or if you just wanted to say hello, then you can email [e-mail] this podcast was edited by Tim Arstel and produced by Stuart Beckwith. The senior producer was Freddie Chick. Join me again Betwixt the Sheets the History of Sex Scandal in Society, A podcast by History Hit. This podcast contains music from Epidemic Sound.

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Why choose a Sleep Number Smart Bed.

Can I make my site softer?

[Anthony Delaney]

Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

Sleep Number does that cools up to eight times faster and let you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your sleep number setting. J.D. power ranks sleep number number one in customer satisfaction with mattresses purchased in store and online. And now the more you buy, the more you save on beds, faces and more limited time. For J.D. power 2025 award information, visit jdpower.com awards. Check it out at the Sleep Number Store or sleepnumber.com today.