← Beyond Blind Blaming
Beyond Blind Blaming
How the Enneagram Unlocks Leadership Potential and Transforms Your Team | R. Karl Hebenstreit
00:39:27
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A
Everyone can improve, everyone can develop. It's just we don't know how.
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Today, I'm joined by Carl Hebenstreich, a highly respected executive coach, leadership consultant and organizational development expert. He's also the author of the how and why Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram, a book that applies the Enneagram framework to leadership and personal growth.
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The Enneagram can help you because it helps to make you more self aware so you understand these are my strengths and by the way, these are my blind spots. You can then start implementing strategies and tactics to prevent you from falling into those blind spots. Most times, especially in our Western civilization, we're really focused on goals and there are certain motivating types, certain Enneagram types that would appeal to them. So we tend to really do well with motivating and rewarding our types 3, 7, and 8, who tend to be more assertive and open about their needs and requirements. Yet there are some six other motivators that we're really not paying that much attention to. And we do have all nine within us to varying extents. One of them is.
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B
Welcome to Beyond Blind Blaming. This is the place where we explore how easily hidden truths can hold us back, trapping us in cycles of frustration and blame, often without even realizing what's truly stopping us. Each week, I'm joined by experts and professionals who share their journey of taking back control of their story, overcoming hidden challenges, and discover how to stop blind blaming from dictating their outcomes. The insights you're about to gain will help you see beyond your current limitations, find the courage to seek new perspectives, and ultimately live a life that's both purposeful and powerful. So if you're ready to break free from blind blaming and discover what's possible, you'll definitely want to listen to my next guest. I'm your host, Kevin St. Clergy, and today I'm joined by Carl Hebenstrike, a highly respected executive coach, leadership consultant and organizational development Expert. With over 25 years of experience in HR coaching and leadership development, Carl's helped countless individuals and organizations unlock their full potential. He's also the author of the how and why Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram, a book that applies the Enneagram framework to leadership and personal growth. Carl's work bridges psychology, business and personal development, equipping leaders with the tools they need to create lasting impact. Carl, welcome to the show.
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A
Thank you, Kevin. It's great to be here.
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B
Well, you've had an extensive career from what I read. I did cyber stalk you before the call to get ready. But in leadership development and organizational consulting, what inspired you to focus on this field and how did your journey lead to where you are today?
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A
Thank you. Thank you for cyber stalking me. I appreciate that. So the journey started in college. I didn't know what I wanted to do, what I wanted to be when I grew up. And I was being focused in one direction by my parents who my mom was like, go take French. And my mom is Greek and I was raised in Greece. So you were taking multiple languages? Of course. So she geared me or steered me through to the French direction. And then my dad is very much into politics and he was like, oh, do political science. So I'm like, oh, I can combine French and political science. Maybe become a diplomat. That'll be interesting. So that's where I started my journey. And then I had to take elective courses in college and I took psychology and I said, nope, this is where I want to be, specifically organizational psychology. So I started doing a triple major. So I triple majored. So I added that and I wanted to pursue that. So after graduation I got a master's in HR management, which solidified that journey into human resources. And once I was in human resources, I decided to. There's more, there's more. I can feel it, I can sense it, there's more. And that was the organization development aspect and leadership development aspect. So I took that journey and got a PhD in Organizational Psychology, which is where I was introduced to the Enneagram and the rest is history.
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B
I did read your book. Although I want people to read the book, I did pick out some things that I really enjoyed because it really ties into the blind blaming concept.
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It totally does.
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B
And I enjoyed reading that. We should not depend on only one solution and be willing to have several things at your disposal. That was kind of what I read in chapter one. You want to talk a little bit more about that?
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A
Yeah. We're geared to simplicity. We're geared to leaning and relying on what we already know. And a lot of that I think that you'll agree with is based on our knowledge or reliance on the Golden Rule. Because everyone's always taught us about the Golden Rule and that's really self referential. So it's about what we know, what we're capable of, what our preferences and values and interests are. And those should expand out to others as well. So they should probably have the same values and interests and preferences and moral compass as we do. That's pretty much what the Golden Rule says. Because in order for it to be successful, it means that everyone's exactly the same. So if we are just relying on our own expertise, our own histories and experiences to solve problems, to look at the world through that perspective, we're really missing out. So we are just fixated. And I think that you were talking about it in your book, talking about the paradigm paralysis that it's your fixation is in one area and that's based on your own experience. So once we break out of that fixation or that paradigm paralysis and understand that there are other viewpoints, other perspectives, other strengths that are still within us, by the way, we just are not focusing on them because we're really focused on what's made us successful in the worldview that we have from which we survived our childhood. Once we start expanding our horizons and our perspectives and our worldview, we then see all these other options that are available to us too. So it's all situational. Sometimes our way is going to be the right way. Most of the time it's not. It's going to be one of many other choices and we need to be open to them. And that's I think part of what you were talking about in your TED Talk and in your book when I.
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B
Got into chapter two. I've never seen that. And am I saying it correctly? The Johari window.
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A
Yes. Joe and Harry. Joe and Harry created the Johari window. There you go for originality.
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B
That's so funny. But it talks about that other people may see things that we don't recognize and what wasn't in what you read. Maybe you have we'll get to when I get to the book. But we have an RCD method. It stands for Reflect, connect and Decide. And I did a lot of research on root cause analysis and I found that the big problem was most root cause analysis don't have people get outside of their sphere of influence.
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Exactly.
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And a lot of those people are stuck in the same blame loop that we are, which is in the book as well. And I liked what that said about that. But you take it a step further about bridging a gap, talk to us about that.
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A
So the Johari window is basically opening up the window to include other perspectives because you may not be as self aware as you think you are. And a lot of organizations use 360 degree feedback or other mechanisms to provide feedback to people to show them this is what made you successful. You could have done this a little bit better and become even more successful. This areas for development. So the Johari window is really the concept behind that, how to expand that, open up that window to make sure we're including the other perspectives so that we truly are and become more self aware rather than thinking that we are being very effective the way that we're continuing to be. Because everyone can improve, everyone can develop, it's just we don't know how because again, we're being self referential. So the concept that I want to expand is it's great to have our own self knowledge, which is golden rule if you think about it that way. And if you want to look at it from the standpoint of emotional intelligence, it's the self awareness part. So let's become more self aware about what our ways of thinking are, what our ideologies are, what our perspectives and worldviews are so that we can understand where we're coming from and why we do the things we do. The next part is the empathy building. So that's reaching out beyond your sphere of influence and talking to other people, understanding about their experiences, their perspectives, their worldviews, how they're different yet still complementary to your own, and how if you start adopting those and integrating them into your own, you're really expanding your own worldview to understand the world more appropriately and more fully. Because you're really seeing a lot of the stuff that was closed in that Johari window that was not open to you. So now you're seeing other people's perspectives. And the third component for emotional intelligence is what are you going to do about it? How do you take action on it? So how do you integrate that and use it whenever you need to make a decision or take an action so that you are fully looking at the entire complement of what is out there for you to be able to make the right choice and the right decision rather than just your own tiny sliver of your experience.
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B
I love it. You're really enjoy the book because it's like reflect. We have a process to kind of get to the root cause and we connect with other people, coaches and masterminds. And then D stands for decide. And the story after there is perfect for what you just said is I had a client who was kind of deciding on going with a loan with somebody and somebody else. And she asked me like, what do you think I should do? I was like, and I'm going to be pretty blunt with some bad language here. But I just said, I think you need to make a fucking decision. And she's like, oh, okay. So then I talked to her next month and she's like, I Said, well, how are things going? She's like, man, I'm MFD ing all over the place. You've changed my life. I'm like, wait, what are you talking about? She's like, I'm making effing decisions. I'm doing it. I just have to decide to do something. It's made a huge difference in my life. Even my husband's like, dude, you're making decisions Anyway. It was really funny. But we ended up leaving it in the book even though we have a religious version and all ages appropriate edition coming out. But I love that you said, look, you gotta decide what to do. Take that first step.
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Yes. And the appropriate decision is not just gonna be based on your own self referential, the reflection, which a lot of times people don't do. They may not even think about why they're doing the things they're doing. They just do it. Right. And of course then they're not connecting. That's the empathy part. When you're connecting to someone, that's the empathy of understanding their own perspective and experiences and insights. And then your doing part is that, okay, let's do something about it. Let's integrate that. Let's take an action. So it's totally related to emotional intelligence.
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B
Well, I also enjoy the chapter on understanding how you can use anotypes to understand how others make decisions.
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Yeah.
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Which I think falls right in line with managing or leading different people in different ways.
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Absolutely. So I think most times, especially in our Western civilization, we're really focused on goals and results and achieving them. And there are certain motivating types, certain enneagram types that would appeal to them. Absolutely. So we tend to really do well with motivating and rewarding our types 3, 7 and 8, who tend to be more assertive and open about their needs and requirements and really do respond to goals being set in achieving those goals. Yet there are six other motivators that we're really not paying that much attention to. We're not paying attention to their needs, and we need all of those perspectives. So identifying ways to really not only attract them, but motivate these individuals that have differing motivators from the traditional style that we're motivating is a key component of understanding your employees and really engaging them. And there's a huge engagement and retention problem that we're seeing. It's going to be called many different things. We've had all these different buzzwords, the great resignation and all these other things that we've heard in the past. But ultimately it Comes down to the fact that our leaders are self referencing. They're looking at what's important to them. This was my trajectory, this is important to me. Therefore it's going to be important to my team members because we're all part of this team, we're in this discipline, we're in this department together. Obviously we have a connection between this will be enough. And the reality is it's not enough because different team members, hopefully, because you do want that diversity of perspective in order to have the best solution possible. Hopefully the team members will have different motivators and different perspectives. And you need to appeal to those so that you can keep them coming so you don't exclude them, you find a way to include them. And so people are going to be much more happy, engaged, successful in an environment like that as opposed to feeling like this company and this leader. They do not understand me. And I feel like I'm being shut down and any, any new perspective that I provide is not being utilized or even considered.
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B
So that leads into another question that I had that I'm hearing all the time. The fact that I hear it so much, I actually put it in my book twice that people don't want to work anymore. And my usual response is, well, it sounds like people don't want to work for you anymore. And there's some changes. You know, I go back and ask them, you know, what's your hiring and what's your retention strategy is like? And I usually get the same answer. What do you mean? So talk to us about how to use Enneagram to help find and retain great people that quote unquote want to work.
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A
So we already mentioned a little bit about that. We really already take care of our threes and sevens and eights. So our threes are motivated by goals and the achievement of goals. That's just what works for them. That's how they're hardwired. Their brand, their reputation, their image is totally dependent on the achievement of these goals that contribute to that. So we got them covered because we give them goals. They say, yes, this is important, let's achieve it. It's going to help my brand. I'm going to get promoted. This is great. We got them covered, no problem. Our sevens are rewarded for their innovative thinking. They're very much about networking and seeing how things work together and seeing opportunities and having vision. So that's a leadership quality right there. So we love their enthusiasm, we love their passion, we love their ability to pivot in many different directions and take on many different things. So we already reward that. That's what we were looking for in a leader. And then our eights are great at execution and great at really looking and taking advantage of power, control, influence and authority. So they're our traditional leaders who people want to follow because they feel, oh, this person has my back. I trust them and they trust me because I'm in their inner circle. So they get me and they will have my back. So we have our threes, our sevens, our eights. Our threes are our performers or achievers. Our sevens are our visionaries or epicures or adventurers. And our eights are our bosses or directors or generals. So we already got them covered. We have them covered. The ones that we don't necessarily pay as much attention to and we need are the type ones, which are the perfectionists or the reformers. They're the ones that are looking to see, oh, this is broken, we need to fix it. This is what's the right thing to do in this situation. This is our mission and our values. We need to really be abiding by that. So they do sometimes crop up into leadership if those values are important to the organization. Our twos are all about connecting with others and relationships. There are givers, our helpers, and they're really all about making sure that other people's needs are being met. So sometimes we'll see them crop up into the leadership role as well, especially if they're social twos, because then they mirror that ambition of type 3s, the performers. They have that overlap there. Our fours are probably the most underrepresented in for profit organizations because they're all about connecting to a purpose and meaning and being unique, different and special. And not many organizations that are for profit have that as a value or something that's going to be able to keep them there. Our fives are our observers or analysts. They're really, really good at looking at different data that's coming in all over the place, making it make sense, coming up with models and systems that will predict what's going to happen in the future and how then that helps them to how do I show up in that situation? Because they don't want to look foolish, they don't want to look incompetent. So they're really good about that objective analysis and making things make sense. Our sixes are looking at it from another perspective. They're looking at the doom and gloom situation. They're looking at worst case scenario planning. They're really great at contingency plans. And guess what? Most Organizations don't value that. They're like, no, you're poo poohing, you're slowing us down. Why are you naysaying on all this different stuff? Why aren't you jumping on board and contributing and supporting this? And the reality is they do support and want to contribute and they want the success and they're seeing the obstacles that need to be overcome or addressed in order to be successful. So again, creating space for that is really important and not seeing it as a negative or a detriment. We talked about our sevens, we talked about our eights. The last one is the nine, which is the mediator or peacekeeper. And they're great at looking at the whole system. They're looking at how everything fits together. Everything is equally valuable. They want to keep the peace, they want to mediate. Their concern is about, let's not rock the boat. Let's just keep that equilibrium going. Each of these nine types has a different motivator that will appeal to them, that the organization and the leader in that group is going to be really responsible for making sure that it's being met in order to keep them engaged, satisfied, and contribute to the organization's goals.
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B
So another thing I like that I'd never heard of, I really enjoyed the OZ principle of personal accountability. Can you talk to us about what it is and how to overcome it? Because I've seen it in private equity acquisitions. I've worked for many years in another industry, other profession, and we made a lot of acquisitions and we went through this. That's why I was like, wow, this really hits home. But talk to us about what it is and how to overcome it.
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A
So the OZ principle, this is a couple decades old and it's related to the wizard of Oz. Not Dr. Oz, but the wizard of Oz. So it's all about, in the wizard of Oz, the whole point was Dorothy had the power to go home all along. She had that power, that accountability, that ability to do so, yet she didn't know that she did. And this is a human condition. In most situations, we tend to go below a line. So there's a line and there's an opportunity to go above the line or below the line. And by the way, this concept of the OSS principle is being used in many different tools. The Leadership Circle profile, which is a360 tool, talks about the creative side, which is above the line, and the reactive side, which is below the line. And reactive is another great way to look at it. It's the victim mentality. It's Looking at myself, I'm the victim to this. I have no control in this. It's happening to me. Woe is me. It's really blaming and not taking personal responsibility or accountability for what you can. And that's the whole point of going above the line in the Oz principle. So you go above the line to productive behaviors, to creative behaviors. What is my role in this? How can I control my destiny? What do I control in this situation? How do I contribute to this? So it's a way to say, okay, great, this is happening. What can I do? Where's my power? So it's taking accountability for what you can do, identifying what is something that you can do, what you do, have control over, what's your span of influence, your control and doing it, rather than just sitting back there and blaming everything on either yourself or other people and just waiting for whatever to happen to happen. This also applies to the Enneagram. From a standpoint of each Enneagram type has a healthy way of behaving and being or an integrated way and an unhealthy or disintegrated way. And it will have positive results and it will also have negative results. When you're in that disintegrated space or unhealthy space.
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B
Are you tired of feeling stuck in your business, career, relationships or your health? Are you frustrated by problems that just won't go away no matter what you try? After coaching and teaching thousands of people for over 25 years, I've discovered something powerful. Every unresolved problem has a hidden solution you just can't see yet. That's why I created the From Stuck to Breakthrough challenge. A free 5 day live experience where I'll show you exactly how to uncover what's really holding you back and finally break free to the results that you want. Whether it's in your business, your health, your wealth, your relationships. I'll help you discover the real root cause of your challenges and give you the blueprint for permanent change. Join me and a community of like minded people ready to break through. Go to blind blaming.com again, that's blind blaming.com to sign up and we'll see you soon. I also enjoyed lasting on the book that we'll move on. But the Enneagram checklist, it's very similar to something one of my mentors, Dan Quall, taught me years ago with the questions. You took it a step further with several, you know, is it right for me? Is it right for the customer? It was just very similar to some of the things he Taught me years ago. But you took it a step further. How can people use that checklist? What was it for?
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So originally it was a decision making checklist and then I saw that it could also be applied for communications. So if you're ever having to deal with a difficult communication, even in sales, you can use it when you're launching a product and you're launching it to a widespread audience and you have no idea who's going to be part of that launch, who's going to tune in, who's going to be in the audience. So if you hit these nine core constructs, you will reach every single person in that audience because you will reach each person's enneagram motivation type. And we do have all nine within us to varying extents. One of them is going to be the most prominent or most important for us and the others are going to be secondary or tertiary or whatever. But hitting all nine of them, you are guaranteed to address each person's interest or need in that situation to be influenced. So originally for the decision making checklist is if you have to make a decision, how do you make sure that you're stepping outside of your own? Again, self referencing and make sure that you are addressing all nine possible areas. So for example, you mentioned, is it right for me? Is it right for the customer? Is it right for the organization? So the type 3 would be, is it right for the organization's goals and my goals? Will it progress my goals and help meet my goals? Right. The type 2 would be about the customer. The type 2 would be about, let's look externally. Are we addressing our stakeholder needs? Is it right for them? And also, how about the rest of the coworkers and the colleagues in the organization? How is that going to impact them as well? The type one is going to look at it from the perspective of is this our mission? Is this the right thing to do according to our values? The four is going to look at what's the unique aspect here? Can we do something elegant and unique and different? Is it an opportunity? If you can have patents or FDA approval, can that happen if we follow this road? The 5 is let's look at this objectively and logically. Do we have the data and evidence to support this as being the right way to move forward? The six is okay, if something happens and goes wrong, what do we do? What's our backup plan? The seven is let's look at the vision and what's going to be possible if we do this and move forward, can we expand and grow Is it going to allow us to do that? How can we connect to other things in the future? The eight is, do I have the scope of authority to execute on this and how do I do this? How do I execute on this? And the nine is how does this fit in this entire ecosystem? How do we make it sustainable and will it move things forward, maintain an equilibrium? So if you answer all those nine questions in either your decision making process or your communication process, if you're doing change management or anything like that, or, or launching a product, you have met every single person in your audience's core concern. It's that simple.
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B
Well, as you know, one of the key themes of beyond Blind blaming is how people misdiagnose problems in their personal and professional lives. How do you think Enneagram helps people see blind spots that they may not recognize? And I know that's a pretty wide question for what you do, but talk to us a little bit about that.
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The Enneagram can help you because it helps make you more self aware so you understand these are my strengths. And by the way, these are my blind spots. Each Enneagram type will have some blind spots that go along with it, its core energy. So understanding that some areas can be more challenging for you, you can then start implementing strategies and tactics to prevent you from falling into those blind spots. So, for example, a type 2 is going to be falling into a blind spot of wanting to please other people and help other people all the time, much to their detriment because they may not be achieving their own goals and, and they may overdo it. They may burn out by helping other people and not considering their own needs. So their blind spot is how do I put boundaries? Safe, productive, healthy boundaries in place that will protect me, yet still meet the needs of my clients. So that would be an example like that. And all twos will have that same challenge. All people who lead with type 2 as their Enneagram type will have that challenge. Type threes, which we have lots of threes, especially in sales, are going to want to do it alone. They're going to be, give me the spotlight, I'm going to achieve all these goals, Give me the bonus, give me the corner office, give me the whatever. And similarly to the type twos, they're going to take everything on because they want to achieve, achieve, achieve, and could burn themselves out as well. Their main learning is how do I include others in this so I don't have to do it by myself? How can I trust others to also abide and contribute to the goal and not have to meet the spotlight by myself all the time. It could be on the whole team.
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B
Well, I see a lot of leaders blaming external factors, and I'm sure you do too as you meet people across the country. Team performance, company culture, market trends, market conditions, the government. When struggling to drive for results. From your experience, how often is the real challenge something else?
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A
Well, I think that you, you mentioned it in your TED talk that it's looking at a challenge as an opportunity. So if this door is closed, what doors are open or what doors become open? Because this door is now closed. So it's an opportunity to innovate because limits create innovation. When you're limited, it allows you the opportunity to be more creative, innovative, to come up with a different solution or a different way, especially if market conditions are changing. It's now a new world. How do we create a product that's appealing to this new world in this new environment? New customer needs, new client needs. Because if we continue to offer the same product that we always have in a way that met past needs, we're not really taking into consideration current or future needs. So we always have to keep innovating and changing. So it's the environment, the business environment is going to change, the socioeconomic, political environment is going to change. How do we stay in front of that and make sure that we're talking to our customers going back, not just the golden rule, but not platinum rule, finding out what our customers now need, what is their next requirement so that we can make sure that we integrate that and we act upon it appropriately to give them what they need, Rebrand ourselves, re. Make ourselves whatever is necessary.
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B
Now you're getting to focus on solutions, not blaming.
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A
Exactly. Exactly. What do we have control over? Right. We don't have control over some of these external factors yet we do have control over what we do.
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B
Control the controllables. I said to somebody yesterday.
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A
Exactly.
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B
Well, the Enneagram helps people understand their own tendencies and those of others, correct?
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A
Yes.
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B
So why don't more leaders use it?
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A
They're not aware of it. It's becoming much more common. And as leaders use it and see its power and see that, the results that they get from that and they move on to maybe another organization, they bring it with them. So I see that happening more and more. I see leaders understanding its power once it's introduced to them. But in reality, the tools that have been used in the past are Myers, Briggs and Disc. Those are much more well known and they've been around for. Well, I'm not going to say they've been around longer because the Enneagram has been around the longest. It just hasn't been used in organizations. So the Myers, Briggs and the DISC have their place and they are a great, I want to call it a gateway drug because it gets you so far and then you need to go dive deeper. So Myers, Briggs and DISC are wonderful about getting your feet wet in oh, there are differences in this organization and how people behave or understand things. And it's behaviorally based. It's really behaviorally based. Once you've exhausted, okay, now great, we know how they're going to behave. So what now what then you dive deeper into why do they behave the way they behave. If we just know the behavior, we don't understand the motivation behind it. And the same behavior may have a whole bunch of different motivators behind it. So if we assume that we know what the motivator is based again self referentially on the golden rule, this is why they must be behaving that way. We're going to be wrong. So we need to dive deeper and really have the conversation and understand where that person's coming from, what their values are, what their motivations are. And that way we're going to be much better able to understand them and engage them and motivate them.
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B
Well, it's helped me in my coaching stuff. I've been using DISC and I love it. It's just something I started this year. It's helped me get a better idea of how to communicate with coaching clients or people in our group environments. But I think we're going to add Enneagram after reading your book. I got to get my business partner Eric to read it. We have another business we do mastermind groups, paid mastermind groups. And he's, he's the one who taught me to use disk. And it's really changed how I talk to people and coach them. But I think Enneagram would take it a step further, as you just said.
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A
And there is overlap because for example, we talked about who do we reward in disc. We tend to reward the D's, the reds. Right. This is who our organizations reward. The people that are more assertive and aggressive that tell us what they want, that are just naturally taking on leadership roles. We reward and motivate and promote them. And those tend to be our threes, sevens and eights. So we have our three, sevens and eights in that red category.
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B
Well, in your coaching work, what's a breakthrough moment when someone realize, God, I've Been solving the wrong problem perfectly.
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A
Yeah. A lot of my clients who are leaders tend to be in that 3, 7, 8 category. And I think the threes, the breakthrough for them is realizing a lot of times, unfortunately, it takes a breakdown, an actual breakdown where they physically break down. They can't do it anymore. Their body says no. Eights tend to have that happen to them as well because they keep taking on more and more and more. They feel that they're invincible and they could do it all. And they want. Well, the threes more so want that spotlight on them. So the breakthrough is that I'm doing this wrong. I'm solving the problem the wrong way. Because what I should be focusing is on not my success, but my team's success. I need to focus on developing my team to be able to answer these questions instead of me having to answer all the questions or me having all the answers. They need to be able to be delegated to so they can be developed and be able to take over when that leader moves on into a different role, into a different organization, whatever it is. So it's really understanding that the focus needs to be more on the team, and how can the team help in achieving these amazing results? It doesn't just have to be on the leader themselves.
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B
We've clearly worked with leaders across various industries, professions. What are the key traits or habits that you think distinguish truly effective leaders from those who struggle?
- [31:10]
A
I think it's listening. It's listening to their people, engaging with them, understanding them, understanding what makes them tick. Really focusing on individuals, on their teams, as opposed to just not meeting with them at all, not having staff meetings to bring everyone together. It's really including the power that each person has to solve the solutions and making sure that there's a diverse perspective that's available. So it's not groupthink. You don't hire everyone that's exactly like you. You want to have different perspectives, because the different perspectives are what exists out in the world, and they are reflective of the needs of those customers because all the different customers have different perspectives. So it's really focusing on that inclusion aspect of let's listen to not only our team members, but also our customers.
- [31:59]
B
We've clearly. Invest in yourself. How do you like to invest in yourself? I'm finding that a lot of leaders, while they're focused on their skill development, they're not really into personal growth. Some of them more than I actually thought as I started getting into different professions. What are some ways that you invest in yourself? Do you like reading do you like podcasts? Do you like audiobooks? What do you like to do?
- [32:20]
A
I'm much more extroverted, so I need to be with people. So connecting with people at conferences, going to Enneagram conferences, going to ICF conferences, going to different conferences to see what's going on, what new thoughts are in the Enneagram world and the coaching world. That's how I found out about AI and got involved in AI about a year and a half ago. So it's just really keeping a finger on the pulse, reading all the different articles from Harvard Business Review and forbes and inc.com and looking at the trends that way to stay aware. And also the constant reminder for my own development of my blind spots. How do I put these healthy boundaries in place? How do I make sure that I'm not focusing on the wrong thing or solving the wrong problem?
- [33:06]
B
Talk to us about the AI thing, Tell us more about that. I know that's a hot topic right now. I want to hear more about that.
- [33:12]
A
So AI in coaching is a hot topic for sure. And I was very fortunate to be able to be an early adopter of it. I have a clone. In fact, you are speaking to the clone right now. No.
- [33:29]
B
One day it will be true. I swear to God, one day it will be true. But just remember, I'm always nice to the AI that I'm using because, you know, when they do take over the world. Yeah, they'll remember. You know that Kevin St. Claudia guy who's always nice to me.
- [33:43]
A
There you go. Absolutely. Say please and thank you when you make your request.
- [33:46]
B
I still do my prompts, always say please and I'm like, what are you doing? Anyway, keep going.
- [33:53]
A
So AI is in its infancy in coaching. So I've been able to have a clone of myself that has all of my knowledge based on the books that I've written, the articles that I've written. And also definitely complies with International Coaching Federation ethics guidelines and coaching guidelines. So it's basically a clone of my style and my coaching, which is available 24 7, 365 to clients in addition to me. So they get live me, but they also have, you know, if I'm not available at 3 o' clock in the morning and they have a crisis and they want to talk to someone, they can easily just log on and get that coaching in the moment, real time. And then I'll see that. I'll see a transcript and say, oh, this is what happened. It's a great way for me to scale my availability and not only that, but I've also. There's another book that we didn't talk about which is Explicit Expectations. I've converted that into an elearning, which is a leadership development program that is AI run. So my AI is able to deliver the Explicit Expectations content, which is for people who are first time leaders or just wanting to brush up on their leadership skills and all the fundamentals that they may have forgotten. And it just leads them through it, it runs role plays with them, it coaches them. So it's a great way to deliver the program asynchronously whenever anyone wants to access it and get a review or a reminder or just a way of making sure that they're approaching a situation the right way and using the right tools and frameworks.
- [35:23]
B
I did the same thing with ChatGPT. I uploaded all my books, my articles, everything I've written last 15 years and I shared with all of our clients. And it was interesting because people are like, God, it sounds like you. I was like, I know, it's really freaky.
- [35:35]
A
It's. Yeah, it's really freaky. Absolutely. And now it has my voice, actually. So I recorded.
- [35:40]
B
Oh, no kidding. Oh, wow.
- [35:41]
A
Yes. I recorded some key phrases and from that it's able to respond. You can speak to it, you can type to it, and it can either type back to you or it can speak back to you in my voice.
- [35:51]
B
That's awesome. Well, what's next for you? Any exciting projects or. I mean, that AI thing sounds amazing. Any exciting projects or initiatives you're currently working on that you'd like to share?
- [36:00]
A
So I continue to be a facilitator for Enneagram workshops because I love spreading the good word around it and getting people to know more about themselves and their team members and be much more effective. So I continue to do that. And I also train people in the Enneagram through Integrative Enneagram solutions, which is the assessment that I use. So I'm a faculty member for that and I am looking to do more work as a speaker. So I'm looking at different speaking engagements. I have one coming up in November. I'll be speaking on a cruise ship from November 22nd, I think it is, through December 6th or 8th. It's a cruise from Portugal to Argentina.
- [36:41]
B
Oh wow, What a great sign.
- [36:42]
A
So I have a couple different opportunities to speak to the passengers during that. And of course I speak at conferences, the Enneagram conferences, and other areas that want to hear about the Enneagram and hear about motivation and hear about engagement. And see how they can not only relate to themselves, but also their stakeholders, their customers, their team members, their fellow colleagues. I'm really enjoying that.
- [37:08]
B
That's great. We're having Blind Blaming live conferences here soon and so we'll be in touch. And I'd also love to have you speak at one of our mastermind groups too, because we have several mastermind groups too and some of these will be virtual, sometimes in person. But yeah, I'd love to continue that conversation. If people want to get in touch with you, how should they get in touch?
- [37:26]
A
So my website is www.performandfunction.com so it's a play on words, form and function, but it's performandfunction.com and my email is Karl K A R lerformandfunction.com and the word and is spelled out. It's not the and percent because you can't use that in web addresses or emails. The other way is LinkedIn. Just my name on LinkedIn. And of course you can get my books on Amazon and through IngramSpark and your libraries and also your bookstores.
- [38:01]
B
I highly recommend the book guys. I enjoyed it, so those listening get it. Carl, thank you so much. Incredible information, extremely valuable. Really ties into the blind blaming message that we're trying to get out there. So thank you for doing that as well.
- [38:15]
A
Thank you for the opportunity to share this with you and the world.