Podcast Summary: Beyond Blind Blaming

Episode: How the Enneagram Unlocks Leadership Potential and Transforms Your Team
Host: Kevin D. St.Clergy
Guest: R. Karl Hebenstreit
Date: September 23, 2025

Overview

This episode explores how the Enneagram—a personality framework—can be leveraged for leadership development, enhanced team effectiveness, and personal growth. Guest R. Karl Hebenstreit, an executive coach and author, shares how understanding personality motivators unearths hidden mindset blocks, boosts self-awareness, and transforms how leaders engage, develop, and retain teams. The conversation hits on blind spots, motivation, practical tools for growth, and new horizons in leadership, including AI-powered coaching.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The Power of Blind Spot Awareness ([00:00]–[02:29])

• Everyone can improve and develop—if they know how:
  “Everyone can improve, everyone can develop. It's just we don't know how.” — Karl Hebenstreit ([00:00])
• Blind blaming limits growth: Leaders often fail to see the real obstacles holding them back and get trapped in self-referential patterns.

2. Karl Hebenstreit's Journey & The Enneagram's Appeal ([02:31]–[03:59])

• Karl’s path from languages and political science, guided by his parents, pivoted when he discovered a passion for organizational psychology in college.
• Exposure to the Enneagram during his doctoral studies shaped his consulting approach.
• Writes and coaches on integrating psychology, business, and personal growth using the Enneagram.

3. The Trap of the Golden Rule and Paradigm Paralysis ([04:06]–[06:04])

• Over-reliance on personal perspective:
  “We're geared to simplicity … a lot of that … is based on our knowledge or reliance on the Golden Rule. Because everyone's always taught us about the Golden Rule and that's really self-referential.” — Karl ([04:18])
• This leads to “paradigm paralysis,” where leaders believe all team members are motivated like themselves.

4. Expanding Awareness: Johari Window & Emotional Intelligence ([06:05]–[08:48])

• The Johari Window illustrates how others may see strengths or weaknesses we overlook.

• Karl’s 3-Pronged Approach:

  • 1. Self Awareness—Recognize personal patterns.
  • 2. Empathy—Connect with others to see varied viewpoints.
  • 3. Action—Decide and implement change based on expanded awareness.

  “The Johari window is basically opening up the window to include other perspectives because you may not be as self aware as you think you are.” — Karl ([06:48])

5. Root Cause Clarity & Breaking the ‘Blame Loop’ ([08:48]–[09:45])

• Avoid root cause analyses that focus only within one’s sphere of influence.

• Use the Reflect, Connect, Decide (RCD) model (Kevin’s approach) for real change.

• Memorable Story:
  Client starts ‘making effing decisions’ (MFD-ing), becoming more decisive by acting instead of ruminating.

6. Motivation and the Nine Enneagram Types in Teams ([10:15]–[17:12])

• Leaders often only motivate assertive types (3, 7, 8):
  “We tend to really do well with motivating and rewarding our types 3, 7, and 8, who tend to be more assertive and open about their needs and requirements.” — Karl ([10:26])
• Other types (1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9) are overlooked, risking disengagement and attrition.
• Effective teams engage—and value—the full spectrum of motivators and functions.

Quick Guide to Types and What They Bring ([13:04]):

• Type 1 (Perfectionists): Driven by values, standards.
• Type 2 (Helpers): Driven by relationships, helping others.
• Type 3 (Achievers): Driven by achievement, status.
• Type 4 (Individualists): Seek uniqueness, meaning.
• Type 5 (Investigators): Analytical, data-driven.
• Type 6 (Loyalists): Focus on risk, contingency.
• Type 7 (Enthusiasts): Visionary, seek opportunities.
• Type 8 (Challengers): Assertive, pursue control.
• Type 9 (Peacemakers): Strive for harmony, consensus.

7. The OZ Principle: Personal Accountability ([17:12]–[19:33])

• Inspired by “The Wizard of Oz,” the principle is that individuals have the power to change their outcomes by acting above the line—with accountability—rather than as victims.
  • “Dorothy had the power to go home all along. She had that power … yet she didn't know that she did. And this is a human condition.” — Karl ([17:34])
• Links to Enneagram: Each type can act in integrated (healthy) or disintegrated (unhealthy) ways.

8. The Enneagram Checklist: A Tool for Decisions & Communication ([20:43]–[23:29])

• Checklist ensures every motivator is addressed:
  • “If you hit these nine core constructs, you will reach every single person in that audience because you will reach each person's enneagram motivation type.” — Karl ([20:43])
• Questions span: Is this aligned with values (1)? Does it help others (2)? Does it meet goals (3)? Is it unique (4)? Supported by data (5)? Risk-managed (6)? Inspiring (7)? Actionable (8)? Sustainable (9)?

9. Using the Enneagram to Uncover Blind Spots ([23:29]–[25:17])

• Each type has recurring blind spots—recognizing these allows for practical strategies.
  • Example:
    “A type 2 … may burn out by helping other people and not considering their own needs. So their blind spot is how do I put boundaries …?” — Karl ([24:00])
  • Achievers (3s): Prone to doing everything themselves, can burn out, need to learn to delegate and rely on their teams.

10. Reevaluating Blame: The Innovation Power of Constraints ([25:17]–[27:00])

• Challenges as creative fuel:
  “If this door is closed, what doors are open or what doors become open because this door is now closed. So it's an opportunity to innovate because limits create innovation.” — Karl ([25:35])
• Focus on factors leaders can control, not external ones.

11. Why More Leaders Don’t Use the Enneagram ([27:11]–[29:23])

• Awareness gap: “They're not aware of it. It's becoming much more common … as leaders use it and see its power … they bring it with them.” — Karl ([27:19])
• Tools like Myers-Briggs and DISC are common "gateway" tools, but Enneagram delves deeper into motivation (the why behind behaviors).

12. Leadership Breakthroughs & Traits of Effective Leaders ([29:23]–[31:59])

• Biggest breakthroughs: Leaders realizing they’re “solving the wrong problem perfectly” by focusing only on their own success, not team development ([29:54]).
• True effectiveness relies on:
  • Listening
  • Including diverse perspectives
  • Investing in personal as well as professional growth

13. The Continual Learning Edge ([32:20]–[33:06])

• Karl invests in himself by attending conferences, staying connected, and reading to stay current and self-aware.

14. AI in Coaching and Leadership Development ([33:06]–[35:50])

• Early adoption of AI coaching: clones his coaching style and content to offer around-the-clock access to clients.
• AI delivers training content and real-time advice, freeing Karl’s time and scaling his impact.
  • “It's a great way for me to scale my availability …” — Karl ([35:09])

15. Looking Ahead ([35:59]–[37:08])

• Karl continues to:
  • Facilitate Enneagram workshops and certifications.
  • Speak at conferences.
  • Integrate new technology with leadership and personal development.
  • Upcoming speaking engagements, including a cruise from Portugal to Argentina.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On blind spots:
  “The Enneagram can help you because it helps make you more self aware so you understand these are my strengths. And by the way, these are my blind spots.” — Karl ([23:44])

• On team engagement:
  “Our leaders are self referencing ... and the reality is it's not enough ... you need to appeal to those so that you can keep them coming so you don't exclude them, you find a way to include them.” — Karl ([12:13])

• On accountability and the OZ principle:
  “In most situations, we tend to go below a line ... It's the victim mentality ... it's really blaming and not taking personal responsibility or accountability for what you can.” — Karl ([17:34])

• On why people don’t want to work:
  “Well, it sounds like people don't want to work for you anymore.” — Kevin ([12:37])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Blind Spots & Self-Referencing: [00:00]–[02:29]
• Karl's Backstory: [02:31]–[03:59]
• Expanding Perspective / Paradigm Paralysis: [04:06]–[06:04]
• The Johari Window & Emotional Intelligence: [06:05]–[08:48]
• Reflect, Connect, Decide Model & Decisiveness Story: [08:48]–[09:45]
• Enneagram Types & Motives Overview: [10:15]–[17:12]
• The OZ Principle: [17:12]–[19:33]
• Enneagram Checklist for Decisions: [20:43]–[23:29]
• Blind Spots by Type: [23:29]–[25:17]
• Challenges as Innovation Opportunities: [25:17]–[27:00]
• Why Enneagram isn't common in leadership: [27:11]–[29:23]
• Leadership Breakthrough Moments: [29:23]–[31:00]
• Traits of Effective Leaders: [31:00]–[31:59]
• Personal Growth Routines: [32:20]–[33:06]
• AI Coaching and New Directions: [33:06]–[35:50]
• Upcoming Projects & Events: [35:59]–[37:08]
• Wrap-up & How to Connect: [37:26]–[38:14]

Actionable Insights

• Self-awareness is foundational—leverage tools like the Enneagram and Johari Window to “see what you don’t see.”
• Leaders should actively seek diverse perspectives and motivators when building and developing teams; this prevents disengagement and turnover.
• Using frameworks like the Enneagram Checklist ensures decisions and communications hit the full spectrum of stakeholder needs.
• View external challenges as fuel for innovation, not an excuse for stagnation.
• Technology—especially AI—can multiply leadership development and coaching impact, and is becoming more personal and accessible.

Resources, Contacts & Further Reading

• Karl Hebenstreit’s Website: performandfunction.com
• LinkedIn: Karl Hebenstreit
• Books:
  • Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram (available on Amazon, IngramSpark, libraries, and bookstores)
  • Explicit Expectations (leadership foundational skills)

This episode is a highly actionable guide for leaders wishing to go “beyond blind blaming”—moving from self-referential leadership and blame cycles to inclusive, innovative, and accountable practices that unleash team and personal potential.