← Beyond Blind Blaming
Beyond Blind Blaming
How to Own the Room When You Speak: Master Public Speaking and Command Attention | Robyn Hatcher
00:47:30
Loading summary
Transcript96 lines
- [00:01]
Robin Hatcher
So many times we just think that we have to sound smart, but what we have to do really is we have to add value to somebody's life. Otherwise, just why are you talking?
- [00:11]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Today I'm joined by Robin Hatcher. Robin is a highly sought after communication expert, speaker and author who's dedicated her career to helping people find their voices and build powerful connections.
- [00:22]
Robin Hatcher
Every conversation is a presentation. So a lot of times people say, I don't need presentation because I don't stand in front of the room. But point is, every conversation you're presenting something. The reason why PowerPoint, I think, has gotten such a bad rap is because people are so bad at using it. Blaming PowerPoint for a bad presentation is like blaming the dining room table for a bad dinner party. It's not the table's fault, it is the host's.
- [00:47]
Kevin Saint Clergy
How do you use stories and how do you recommend others use stories in their presentations, in their conversations?
- [00:52]
Robin Hatcher
There's an art to it. One of the biggest mistakes that people make when they're telling their story is foreign.
- [01:10]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Welcome to Beyond Blind Blaming. This is the place where we explore how easily hidden truths can hold us back, trapping us in cycles of frustration and blame, often without even realizing what's truly stopping us. I'm your host, Kevin Saint Clergy, and today I'm joined by Robin Hatcher. Robin is a highly sought after communication expert, speaker and author who's dedicated her career to helping people find their voices and build powerful connections. As a certified executive coach and professional actor, she understands the power of storytelling, body language and authenticity in communication. Her book, Standing Ovation Presentations shares strategies to overcome fear and build a compelling presence in business and in life. Robin's worked with Fortune 500 companies, entrepreneurs and leaders worldwide to enhance their communication skills and impact. She believes that everyone has a unique voice and a message that deserves to be heard. Robin, welcome to the show.
- [02:09]
Robin Hatcher
Thank you so much, Kevin. It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.
- [02:12]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Well, it sounds like you've had an incredible journey. From what I read about you, I might have cyber stalked you a little bit. From acting to executive coaching. Can you share a little bit about what led you to the work you do today?
- [02:23]
Robin Hatcher
I was an actor for many, many, many, many years. And one of the ways that being in New York and being an actor is like being a pebble on the beach, but so one of the ways that I supplemented my income was by teaching English as a second language at a university in New York, Baruch College. And as I was teaching these adult students, I started realizing that they were learning the language, they were learning the grammar, they were learning the sentence structure and all of that. And they still were not comfortable speaking English to English speakers. And I wanted to overcome that barrier. And so I created a class specifically around just communicating. It was a public speaking class. And I was so enamored of the fact of how quickly, when they were just given tasks, I gave them interview prep, I gave them debates, I gave them all of these things. And when they really had a purpose, how quickly their language skills improved and their confidence improved. And so after doing that, I just fell in love with the beauty of public speaking and communicating. And what I did then was created a class specifically for public speaking, which then led to me bringing that to native speakers, being hired and trained to be a leadership consultant. And that's what started that whole journey.
- [03:48]
Kevin Saint Clergy
And I understand that you've had some experience with hearing aids. Cause I know we have a lot of audiologist listeners, so I was wondering if you could tell that story.
- [03:55]
Robin Hatcher
Oh, yeah. So about 10 years ago, I started noticing that I would have to turn the television up a lot louder than other people. I was asking people to repeat themselves a lot. I would be in audiences, and people would be laughing at a joke that I just didn't hear. And people were saying, oh, you should get hearing aids. I'm like, no, I am not getting hearing aids. You know, there's the vanity and the ego part. It's like, you know, no way am I gonna get hearing aids. And then it just persisted. And my son was getting older, and he was getting really annoyed with me for not hearing him and having the television episode loud. So I said, I'm gonna go check it out. Went to one audiologist, and I'll never forget. I walk in the office, beautiful office. She stands there, and no rapport building. She puts me into the booth, tests my hearing, takes me out, just sits me down and says, yeah, you need hearing aids. What I hear is, what an idiot for not having gotten your hearing aids early. I mean, that's not what she said probably, but that's how it felt. And then she started talking all the data about what's available, what I can get, how much they cost, blah, blah, blah, blah. And me being a communication coach, I'm, like, sitting there, lady, you're not asking me one question. You're not empathizing with me at all. There is no way I'm getting hearing aids with you. So I just left, and I just cemented the fact that no, hearing aids are not for me. And so a Couple of months go by and I realized that still a problem with my husband and my son. So I decided to try again. I found another place, completely different experience. I walk in, the guy comes out with this huge smile, brings me back, sits me down, asks me all these questions, talks to me, does my hearing test, brings me back out and says, you know what, you're right. Your hearing isn't really that bad. And you could probably get by with this for quite a while. And then he said the line that I'll never forget, he said, and I have a feeling that your lack of hearing is causing you undue stress. And I think hearing aids would really help you alleviate some of that stress. And what that did for me, and this is what I teach and this is what I live by, what it did is it made me feel seen, it made me feel validated, and it created a why that I didn't even know that I had. Of course I went with that audiologist, and I have been with that audiologist practice for the entire seven or eight years I've had hearing aids.
- [06:33]
Kevin Saint Clergy
We've been teaching what you described, or what I call and others call best practices, and you got to experience someone who didn't follow best practices, and you got to experience someone who did. We've actually been teaching it, geez, almost 30 years now. But yeah, now I work with all businesses, but we still have a lot of audiology clients. So thank you for sharing that because I think our folks need to hear it. And I'm still an audiologist by training, even though I do different things now, always have a place in my heart, especially since my brother's still got hearing loss and I have to go with him sometimes to his appointments. Well, your book, which I loved, by the way, and I've got it set aside to read again actively, where I just kind of read it and then listened to part of it as well. It highlights the importance of impactful speaking. What inspired you to write it?
- [07:16]
Robin Hatcher
Well, like I said, I was teaching English as a second language and I wanted a book for my students. And when I went to the college bookstores and I looked at public speaking books, they were God awful. They were these textbooks that were so thick with teeny, teeny, teeny writing with very technical stuff, and they cost over $65. So I said, you know what? I am not having my students buy these books. So I started writing my own handouts and my own workbooks for my class. So for years as I taught this class, I developed materials for this segment in my Public speaking class. And then I just said, you know, why don't I turn this into a book? After I stopped teaching English as a second language and when I started to write my book, actually, somebody said, why don't you have a book? And I said, oh, okay, I'll write a book. And then I realized that I have most of the book already written from when I was doing these classes. So that's what inspired me to get a book that is more tangible, more fun, around the role of public speaking. And what came to me is so much of the other public speaking books are all this technical stuff. I wanted something that people could relate to in a fun way. So I brought in my acting background and my soap writing background to create the actor types in. The whole conceit of the book is based on writing and acting.
- [08:46]
Kevin Saint Clergy
I want everyone to read it. And I don't care what you do, I think you should read it. Because what I got out of the book was it's not always about when you're on stage. It's just a normal life too, which is what I love most about it. I do want to go over some things that really hit home for me. Can you talk to us about the famous three V's? Because there was one more that I've been to a couple of classes, and some people were only mentioning two on stage even just a couple of weeks ago. But I loved your unsung fourth voice. So can you talk about that for me?
- [09:14]
Robin Hatcher
The three V's that most people talk about are the vocal, the visual, and the verbal. What we see as an audience member or a listener, what we hear, the actual tones and the sounds coming out and then what the words are, the verbal, what is being said. But I add a fourth V, and that is value. What value are you bringing to the conversation? And what values do you have internally that you want to express? So that fourth V, I think, is one of the most critical, because that's where you start. You know, you start with the fact of adding value to someone's life, which is why you open your mouth to speak so many times. We just think that we have to be right. We have to look good, we have to sound good, we have to sound smart. But what we have to do, really is we have to add value to somebody's life. Otherwise, just. Why are you talking?
- [10:08]
Kevin Saint Clergy
I like that question a lot. I'm going to write that one down. Why are you talking? Well, in another part of the book, you talk about disc profiles, which, oddly enough, I just did. Mine and with beyond Blind Blaming, we do provide coaching for a lot of different folks in a lot of different businesses and individuals. We also have live events that we do and we do mastermind groups where we get a lot of like minded individuals together to share their ideas and help solve problems together. And we always have people go through the disc profile. And I'm a high di, just so you know, high D high I is what I came in at. But talk to us about how that applies to your communication ability.
- [10:45]
Robin Hatcher
I reference disc as a value of how the actor types that I list coincide because they're very, very close. And I feel like knowing your personality type, knowing your communication style is so, so critical because we often live under the assumption that everybody talks and thinks like we do. And sometimes it's a quiet assumption. Like if someone were to ask you, it's like, oh, no, no, no, I don't think that. But yeah, you do, you know, because you know, you say something and you think, oh, they should understand that it's in black and white. But no, it's almost as if you have just spoken German to someone who does not understand German because your style is so different. Just even just talking about the di, the D is very, very direct and forthcoming. And the I is very inspirational, influential. And that coincides with, in my book, it would be the hero and the superhero. You know, the superhero and the hero combined would be the di. And so what happens is you walk into a room and, and you faced with somebody who is more of a buddy or an ass type who wants to feel like you love them, that you're compassionate, that you understand them, that you're supporting, that you're getting along with them. And you as a D comes in and say, okay, I need this done right now. And the buddy is like, whoa, what just happened? They don't like me. And then they start spiraling about the fact that Kevin doesn't like me anymore. And, and if the buddy or the S is going through that, they're not getting their work done. They're obsessing over why I'm not being liked and what's wrong with me. So understanding that is like you go and you want something from the buddy. It's like, oh, hi Robin, how's it going? What's going on? Okay, here's what I need and here's why I need it. Cool. Buddy is cool with that? Yeah, I'm gonna get you that. And it does what it takes a couple of seconds, but without knowing that you've set off like my Other great topic is drama. You've set off a drama right there by not acknowledging where the other person is and what they need.
- [13:00]
Kevin Saint Clergy
And what you just described, Robin, is blind blaming to the T. Or you think it's one thing, but it's actually something else.
- [13:07]
Robin Hatcher
Right.
- [13:07]
Kevin Saint Clergy
And you start fixing the wrong problem perfectly.
- [13:12]
Robin Hatcher
Yes.
- [13:13]
Kevin Saint Clergy
And so that goes to the base of why we're here today. Now, you mentioned some of the actors. You're right. I did nail myself. It was interesting because when I was reading the book, I thought years ago I was more of a buddy. But as my career has advanced and had more speaking coaches and communication coaches, I think I've graduated. I don't know if that's the right way to say it, if I understood your book correctly.
- [13:33]
Robin Hatcher
Evolved.
- [13:34]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Evolved, thank you. Evolved into. I didn't say hero, but I thought more superhero, which I'm still working on. But talk to us about some of the more common ones that are out there. Like I said, I don't want to take people away from buying the book, but talk to us about that.
- [13:48]
Robin Hatcher
The four common ones that I talk about the most, and they align the most closely with the disc model are the hero, which is. Most leaders would think that they want to be a hero, but when actually, sometimes they're villains and sometimes they're superheroes. But, you know, the hero is that charismatic and confident person whose their main motivator is to get attention, having great attention, not in a negative. Not that they're egocentric, but, you know, that's what feels. They love that and they like the big picture, so they're not really into details as much. And then we have the buddy, which we talked about is so supportive. They want people to get along. That's their whole motive. It's like, how can we make sure that you're all getting along and you're all happy. Then we have the whiz kid, which is very prevalent in the workspace. And that is the person who is very data driven, very analytical, very fact based. They're like those people in Big Bang Theory. It's like they've never met a spreadsheet they never liked. And so our whiz kids often forget that there's a human aspect to what people are doing and they don't see it. So then people start seeing them as being distant or being cold or giving too much information, which is usually the case. And then we get lost in the information. And then our last one is there's a superhero who is intense, driven, determined. They want what they want. When they want it. And that's a great trait to have in a leader. And what happens, the superhero, is sometimes they don't realize how they're coming across and how they're alienating people. And often, sometimes they really don't even care. And I'm not saying Karen or not pathetic way is just that they don't get it because that's how they've been for their entire lives. And that's one of the most challenging people to get to see because it's worked for them. They get acknowledged for that and they get promoted for that. So they don't understand that people aren't all like that or that they can't all be like that. It's like, obviously you're not trying hard enough because otherwise, like, I don't have any problem doing that. And. And I sat in rooms with leaders who was like, why do I have to acknowledge them? I don't need acknowledgement.
- [16:08]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Yeah, I don't need that.
- [16:09]
Robin Hatcher
Yeah, I don't need that. So why should I give it to them? They should just do the work.
- [16:13]
Kevin Saint Clergy
It was something I constantly had to remind someone I used to work with. I was like, look, I know you don't need it, but other people on the team do. Yes, it goes back to blind blaming again, because we talk about this. You can get to a place because of something I call the blame loop. In the blame loop, there comes a point, because of your behavioral bedrock and your filters that you've created over the years to see the world, it can make it where it's almost physiologically impossible for you to see a different way of doing something. It's really outlining what we call the structure of scientific revolution, where these scientists, when they're doing experiments and it fits into their paradigm, their way of thinking, the way they've been taught, everything's fine. But when there was data outside, it literally says, it's almost like the data didn't exist. So you just described that perfectly.
- [16:58]
Robin Hatcher
Oh, I love that. There's a phrase that I love to use is like, people won't hear what you say until you see and validate who they are.
- [17:05]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Oh, I love that.
- [17:07]
Robin Hatcher
Yeah. Yeah.
- [17:08]
Kevin Saint Clergy
I called it insight, invisibility, and the blame loop, as we call it. Are you tired of feeling stuck in your business, career, relationships, or your health? Are you frustrated by problems that just won't go away no matter what you try? After coaching and teaching thousands of people for over 25 years, I've discovered something powerful. Every unresolved problem has a hidden solution. You just can't see yet. That's why I created the From Stuck to Breakthrough challenge. A free 5 day live experience where I'll show you exactly how to uncover what's really holding you back and finally break free to the results that you want. Whether it's in your business, your health, your wealth, your relationships. I'll help you discover the real root cause of your challenges and give you the blueprint for permanent change. Join me and a community of like minded people ready to break through. Go to blindblaming.com again, that's blindblaming.com to sign up and we'll see you soon. Well, let's move into the script writing. So it sounds like you're a big fan of scripts for speeches. Is that right or did I misread that?
- [18:08]
Robin Hatcher
I am on the fence about that. And again, it depends on your actor type. Again, some people love to be scripted and I was really anti script for years and years and years. And then there was one time that I created a script for myself and it worked. Recently, however, what I find is when I create scripts for myself, it loses some of the me from it. And so it's gotta be a really good mix for me. You know, it's like in this script that you write for yourself, you can write it and then you need to forget it. And just like as an actor we are taught to like learn the character, learn that and then you have to forget everything and just show up and be present. That's my mixed bag on scripts. Some people can be really good at being memorized and having a script. Some people, you as soon as you hear them talk. I just went through a whole thing where I was working with several speakers on their five minute scene. And you could so tell when people had memorized their scripts because there's just this thing, this look in their eye, there's lack of presence in their face, you know, and it's important to know what you're talking about but not be married to it.
- [19:27]
Kevin Saint Clergy
I'm so glad to hear you say that because when I first started the TED talk, when I learned that it's a 15 minute talk that you have to memorize, it scared the hell out of me. I know because I am not a script guy. I'm getting better, but I think even putting your own spin on it. But I've been working with an inflection coach which has been interesting. That's all she does. One thing extremely frustrating for me sometimes. My favorite comment she made one time when I was practicing it with Her. And she's like, where's the guy last night that was drinking wine with us? Because you're so monotone.
- [19:59]
Robin Hatcher
I was like, ah, right, right, right.
- [20:01]
Kevin Saint Clergy
So when she was digging deeper, she found my limiting belief. I think you'll like this. She goes, what is going on? There's something going on that you're worried about or you're scared about. And I kind of put my head down. I was like, I never wanted to be one of those self adulating douchebags on stage. And she goes, oh, there it is, we got it. She goes, you can do this without coming across that way. So anyway, talk to us about that a little bit. Yeah, it was really, really eye opening.
- [20:27]
Robin Hatcher
Yeah, I was just working with a client yesterday, an executive coaching client. And you know, what we're hearing is, and he's talking and I'm face to face with him. I can barely hear him. And finally I just said, do you realize that you're talking low? And he said, yeah, I've heard that before. And the interesting, you know, the interesting thing with him is that he told me that he has complete hearing loss, ironically, in one ear. So he's afraid of being too loud and not knowing that he's too loud. And so what I do exercises with vocal too. I have a vocal CD with exercises on it. And so what I do is I have people read different parts of a really powerful screenplay that's in my book. And so I had him read some and he cannot get to that level yet. You know, it's almost as if he is just being afraid of, like you said, overdoing it.
- [21:26]
Kevin Saint Clergy
I never wanted to be that Tony Robbins guy. He's super famous. And I'm like, you're right, I need to be more animated. So it was kind of neat. Latest talk that I did. Somebody came up to me and said, well, whatever that speaker thing you're doing, it's working.
- [21:39]
Robin Hatcher
Oh, great.
- [21:40]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Thank you. It gave me a little bit more confidence. Well, you talked about three acts set up, plot and conclusion. You want to talk about that a little bit? It sounds like it's just a good model for any speech, any meeting, anytime you're addressing employees. That's what I got out of it. It was like, look, I think it even applied to difficult conversations. So talk to us about that.
- [22:00]
Robin Hatcher
I always say that every conversation is a presentation. So a lot of times people say, I don't need presentation codes because I don't stand in front of the room. But the point is, every conversation, you're presenting something and so that's why the book is great for everyone, as you said. And I appreciate that. I mean, we've heard that old adage. A lot of people say it. Tell them what you're gonna tell em. Tell em, then tell em that you told them. But in script writing, the setup, you know, I was a soap opera writer. I wrote All My Children, One Life To Live. And we always had to do this.
- [22:31]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Yeah, that's so good. That's what I watched in grad school. Sorry to interrupt.
- [22:34]
Robin Hatcher
Right. I know.
- [22:35]
Kevin Saint Clergy
I just. Every time at lunch, in between patients, we were watching those shows. I can't believe that. I can't wait to tell my friend. Anyway, go ahead.
- [22:42]
Robin Hatcher
I know. I love it. And that is like we had to write the teaser. And the teaser is like that short little thing, you know, right before the first commercial break. And that sets up so that you come back after this commercial break. And that's what we have to do when we're speaking. Give us a setup and make it short and get us involved in it. And then you've got the first act, which is describing what it is that you're gonna talk about. Then you start talking about that. That. And then as a screenwriter, I also wrote screenplays, the screenwriter. Everyone knows that the hardest act to write is a second act. Because by then you've got their interest. Now you've gotta keep their interest, and you've gotta keep them until the end. And that's one of the hardest spaces to be in. And that's where you really want to bring in the stories or the facts or something. You can't lose them there. And then the conclusion wraps everything up. And usually what it does is it goes back to the intro, the setup a little bit so that it all feels like a nice package that you've actually given someone a gift of this package of your presentation or your conversation.
- [23:57]
Kevin Saint Clergy
I think when people have a structure to me, once they know what to do and how to structure it, it's much easier to have sometimes difficult conversations that we've been putting off.
- [24:07]
Robin Hatcher
Oh yeah. And what I talk about a lot is creating a love conversation, which isn't in my book, but I do it in my communication training. And LOVE stands for. It's L, U, V E. And even though I'm a writer, I know that it's misspelled, but it's an acronym. So it is Listen, Understand, Validate and Explore and Express. You know, so you want to listen. It's like, what is that need or their want that to you would be that blind. What are you seeing that they need, that they're not articulating? If you can guess at that, then you say something that shows that you understand that need doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with their opinion, but you understand where their opinion is coming from based on their need. Then you validate that they have an absolute correct right to that opinion. Again, that doesn't mean that you agree with that opinion and then using the word and and not, but and you express your differing opinion. Or you can then ask them a question that opens up the idea that perhaps they're wrong or they're misguided. That framework can work on almost anybody. And what I like to describe it as is when you're making a steak or when you're wanting somebody to eat a steak, it's gotta be tenderized. And the listening, the showing that you understand and you validating them is like meat tenderizer. You know, it tenders up that steak so that when you beat it to them, the e. The expression, they're gonna be much more likely to be able to digest it.
- [26:00]
Kevin Saint Clergy
As we moved on into the book, and I'll only have a couple more things, but I was a little surprised that you liked PowerPoint because I've been getting conflicting. I've got differences of opinion. I've got some people like, no, I never use PowerPoints, and I've got others like me who have always done it. Now, I've never read my slides, but I do like to have that structure. It gives me structure. And honestly, I get so on sidetracked and answering questions sometimes. I've changed presentations midstream because the audience seemed like they want to focus there, which is another thing a coach years ago taught me. And it worked so well, where I don't always get through all my slides, but the people just love the presentation. But talk to us about PowerPoint. I saw that you like, was it 60 40? I didn't write it down, but I was something like that.
- [26:41]
Robin Hatcher
Yeah. I like PowerPoint and here's why. When I talk about actor types, the one question is like, well, how do you deal with the fact that there are so many different types in your audience or at a meeting? And that's why I like PowerPoint. For one. Some people really need visuals, and so you really want to appeal to everybody in your audience. So some people need visuals to keep paying attention. I know as a hero type, I like visuals. I need to see something to spark my thought patterns or my imagination. And also I have a little bit of whiz kid in me, too. So I need to. If you're talking data, I need to see the data. You know, if I don't see that data, I'm not going to believe you or I'm not going to remember it. I'm not going to retain it. That's why I think PowerPoints used properly. Most of the PowerPoints that I have have mostly photos, pictures, or images. And that image can then spark a reaction or a feeling in your listener. And that's the most important thing, because people feel before they think. Making them think is very exhausting. And listening can be exhausting if they don't have anything to feel. I mean, if you're a really fantastic speaker and are always pulling out and touching their feelings and making them laugh and making them feel things, that's fine. Maybe you don't need as many PowerPoints. But to really be able to engage the emotion is really important. The reason why PowerPoint, I think, has gotten such a bad rap is because people are so bad at using it. The analogy I think I wrote in the book is blaming PowerPoint for a bad presentation is like blaming the dining room table for a bad dinner party. You know, it's not the table's fault, it is the host's.
- [28:37]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Again, blind blaming inaction, where you're blaming the wrong problem when you think it's something else. Well, it must be the PowerPoint certainly couldn't be me.
- [28:44]
Robin Hatcher
No.
- [28:46]
Kevin Saint Clergy
But I do think sometimes we blame ourselves, and sometimes some things are out of control, just like when I was. I think you got a chance to read the TED talk that I wrote. But when I was 10 years old, I was a baseball phenom. I had a.550 batting average. And for those of you who don't know, that's pretty incredible, considering Babe Ruth in his heyday was.394. My dad was being approached by coaches and recruiters saying, look, this kid really needs to play high school and college ball, and we think he could probably play pro. So, of course my dad went crazy and started working me on mindset and everything else. And the next year, my batting average went to zero. And all the parents in my life started blaming my swing, my attitude, my motivation, my commitment. And then after another year of zero batting average, I quit. And then after I started blaming myself and feeling like a complete failure and a fluke eye test two weeks later, we found out. I just couldn't see. Nobody thought to think about it.
- [29:37]
Robin Hatcher
Yes, I loved that story. And that's another connection that we Have. Because my son was a baseball player.
- [29:44]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Oh, no kidding. Okay, cool.
- [29:45]
Robin Hatcher
It's very interesting because I have to figure out what else is going on, but he actually made it to the minors in high school. He was a pitcher. And in his junior year, I think he pitched a perfect game in high school.
- [29:58]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Wow.
- [29:59]
Robin Hatcher
Which I feel like was the biggest downfall that could ever have happened. Because what happened is. And we're in New York City. So we had this little tiny newspaper that the front page said Mr. Perfect with my son's picture.
- [30:18]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Ouch. I know where that. I think I know where this is going.
- [30:22]
Robin Hatcher
So that ended up this mindset that I have to be perfect. So, you know, he got drafted. He was scouted by Cincinnati Reds way back in high school. But he was really smart. He was in a really high achieving high school. They knew he was gonna go to college and nobody touched him. He went to Yale. People were watching him in Yale. Had one injury early, but then his junior year, he started playing, did really well, got a lot of different offers, got drafted by the Cincinnati Reds, the same guy who saw him in high school, which was really cool. And he went on to the minors and that mindset went right along with him, you know, so blaming everything. And as a pitcher, you cannot be married to your last pitch and you cannot gut on the mound expecting to be perfect. He's doing. He's very successful now, but he still holds. If only I had done this coaching over the summer. If only I had done this. If I only had gone to this school instead of, you know, it's like always.
- [31:31]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Well, you also seem to like stories. And that was the next question I had when I found out how important stories were. We spent almost a year writing the story where I went from hero to zero. And then while I didn't hit any home runs in baseball, I did manage to hit some home runs in business and entrepreneurship and speaking. And so we talk about my journey to selling my company. But how do you use stories and how do you recommend others use stories in their presentations and their conversations?
- [31:57]
Robin Hatcher
I did a whole webinar once on stories because stories are what connects people. And there's some scientific research around how when you are listening to a story, that's the one time that your entire brain is engaged, you know, And I find that really fascinating. And also when you're listening to a story, there's this. This Vulcan mind meld happening between the listener and the person. They just connect in a certain level. Because that's how humans became human is because they would sit around the campfire and be able to tell what was happening through story. So there's a huge benefit to telling stories and listening to stories and getting people to do what you want or to hear you or understand you through the art of story. So finding that story. And to be honest, there are sometimes where at first I was like, I don't want to hear stories. Like, what's. You know, it's like, you're just wasting my time. The story's like. But there's an art to it. And when you really have that art, because one of the biggest mistakes that people make when they're telling their story is they want to tell the entire story from beginning to end. And that drives me crazy. Because what you want to do is you want to tell the part of the story that is relevant for the point that you want to make or the emotion that you're trying to draw out. And so sometimes that means you don't start at the beginning, you start in the middle, or you start at the end, and then you come back to the beginning or you leave. And then what you really want to do is write down that story and think, okay, that's not relevant. That's not relevant. Oh, yeah, it happened, but it's not relevant. So let's keep that out. You know, it's like, I don't have to tell the subway ride that I went to to the audiologist. That's not relevant. I mean, something could have happened, but it's not relevant. So what do you leave in? What do you leave out? And what is the point? What are you really trying to communicate through that? Story is important. So I've come to love story. And like a lot of people, you think, oh, I don't have a story. And every day you have a story. And there's a story that I tell about the Golden Buddha, which is not my story, but it's a story that can really influence people. So there are stories everywhere, and you have stories and finding out what it is and learning to judiciously use them for that effect that they have, which is to connect with the emotions of your listener.
- [34:31]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Well, I want to hear the Golden Buddha story. Just because I saw the Golden Buddha in Thailand, the one that's laying down. I don't know if you're familiar with that one. The really long, like, I don't know, it was like a thousand feet, maybe not that big, but it was very interesting. Pure gold Buddha. But I'd love to hear the quick story. The quick version.
- [34:47]
Robin Hatcher
Yeah, it's A really wonderful story, especially for what I teach. There was a monastery in Thailand that had a giant clay Buddha. And they worshiped this clay Buddha for years and years and years. And then one year, 1952, I think it was, they needed to move the monastery, so of course they wanted to take this clay Buddha with them. And so as they were taking the clay Buddha, it was hard. And when they got it to the new space, they saw that it had a little crack in it. And one of the monks peering in the crack started to see golden light emanating from it. So I guess he got permission to chip away at the clay. And lo and behold, underneath that clay was a solid gold Buddha. And historians believe that hundreds of years prior, other monks had covered the gold Buddha in clay because they were about to be invaded and they didn't want anybody to steal the Buddha. But unfortunately, those monks did not survive to let anybody know that underneath all that clay was gold. And so I love that story because how I use it in my keynotes is that we all have this gold hidden inside of us, and oftentimes it's covered in clay. Clay not always of our own making. Some of it is like clay from our mindset. Some of it is clay from environmental causes, you know, like cultural biases, fear of standing out, fear of looking stupid, all those fears that are creating the clay that covers us. And so our life journey and what I want to do for everybody is to help them chip away at that clay, chip away at the clay and reveal the gold that's always inside of you. My keynote, own it while you hone it, is all about that owning the gold that's already inside of you while you continue to make improvements on it, because that's what life is. We're never going to be Mr. Perfect.
- [36:51]
Kevin Saint Clergy
I love it. No, you're describing that blame loop I talked about earlier. And the first step in the blame loop is a behavioral bedrock. And it's that clay that you just described. And it gets layer upon layer upon layer based on our blind blaming habits and our preconceived perceptions, which is the filters in which we view the world, which leads to a lot of other problems that can lead to that insight and visibility. And then it's just like this vicious cycle that adds layer upon layer of clay as you described it. That's g. It's really hard because over time, it hardens.
- [37:22]
Robin Hatcher
Yeah, it's hardening. You take the chisel, it's like.
- [37:26]
Kevin Saint Clergy
And it sounds like. We divided the book into three sections. Awareness, the RCD method, which helps you break free and then transformation. So you talk a lot about awareness, which I love, because if you're not aware of what you're doing. Like when I first hired my first speaking coach, and I think that's where that limiting belief came from because the speaking coach just said, dude, watch the self adulation. And I took that as I was being more too. What he was talking about, he just didn't say it the right way, was, dude, don't use examples of yourself so much. Start talking about how you've helped other people and what they've done once they implemented what you're trying to teach. That was his lesson. I just took it the wrong way.
- [38:01]
Robin Hatcher
Right. So interesting. And it goes back to what we were talking about too. And that's why there can be so many coaches, there can be so many speakers teaching the same thing. Because different people hear things differently based on how you express them and how self aware you are and how aware you are of other people's triggers.
- [38:26]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Well, just like I just shared my misdiagnosis inside of me. Can you share a story of a client who misdiagnosed their communication problem and discovered that the real issue is completely something unexpected?
- [38:37]
Robin Hatcher
It's funny, the one that just came to mind, I guess because we were just talking about it. I had a client who was a college baseball player. What was happening is he was a brilliant leader in this organization. And the organization came to me because they're like, his colleagues hate working with him and if he doesn't change, we may have to let him go because he's just not. So we had this whole conversation and finally I got to the fact of this college baseball thing and I said, that's interesting. I bet in knowing my son, it's like, I'm wondering if you have some PTSD around that. Because he always felt like he should have gone better. And so he was really thinking of himself as a failure. Not only that, he was really good at this and he didn't go to like one of those fancy colleges and a lot of his colleagues did. So he had this thought that he wasn't as good and he wasn't good enough to be in the realm of his other colleagues, but he wasn't seeing that. He was seeing that they were the problem. They weren't seeing him, they were judging him or whatever like this. And so his behavior was just to lash out or just to be curt or whatever. And as soon as we started unpack the. The fact that it was him feeling badly about himself, him feeling like he had to be something that he wasn't. And for me to feed into him the skills that he actually brought based on what he was, you know, and to really continually build him up that way and to see what his communication style was actually being heard as, you know, because what he thought it was just being like he was just asking for what he wanted based on what they were doing. But when I told him, do you realize how that sounds or what somebody could be thinking when you say it that way? And giving him all the actor types and giving him all these things to unpack and to really look and get curious about what his colleagues actually needed, he was able to turn it around and he's doing really well.
- [40:47]
Kevin Saint Clergy
You can be a blind blaming coach. That RCD method I talked about is reflect, which is where you're bringing the awareness. And we have five different things that people go through but then connect and the connect stages where they need to connect with somebody outside of their sphere of influence, like yourself as a coach or a mastermind group where people can pull them out of the blame loop that other people are going through that are trying to give them advice. Just like they said, look, something's wrong with this guy. You know, we need to do this or we're going to let him go. It looks like they got to the root cause, which they needed to find a coach who could help them find out what it is. And then D stands for decide. They've got to decide to make a decision. We call it MFD because I had a client one time where she had come to me and she was debating on whether to get one loan with another group and another loan and almost a month. And she's like, what do you think I should do? I was like, well, you've been doing this for a month. You need to make an effing decision. And I didn't say effing. I said the word. But, you know, about a month later, she gets back on the phone with me and I'm like, well, what's going well? And she's like, man, I'm MFD ing all over the place. You've changed my life. I'm making these quick decisions. And I'm like, wait, wait, what are you talking about? She goes, make effing decisions. That's what you told me to do last time. I'm doing it over and over and over again. So I was like, well, do you mind if I use that in the book? So we actually put that in the book. And the third stage is mfd.
- [42:01]
Robin Hatcher
Love it.
- [42:01]
Kevin Saint Clergy
And then when we were doing a mastermind recently, there might have been a little wine involved, but we broke into groups, and we were brainstorming on some things, and she was in one of the groups, and she came back with a big smile on her face. I was like, all right, Kayla, go for it. Let me know what you came up with. And she's like, well, we came up with another acronym, MFDDEs. If you make effing decisions, you'll do epic shit. And I just thought it was hilarious. So now we're getting bumper stickers. We're having some swag along those lines. But, yeah, you can reflect and connect all you want, but unless you decide to do something like get on stage or learn the strategies that you're teaching, nothing ever happens.
- [42:37]
Robin Hatcher
I mean, that's my whole thing. I don't know why it works with my coaching clients, but I continually find what it is, and they turn themselves around. I mean, I just had another executive who just did a 180. She was about to be fired.
- [42:55]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Well, you've clearly. We're getting to the end of the time, but you've clearly learned to invest in yourself. What's your favorite way to learn new things or skills? Or are you a reader or podcaster? What do you like?
- [43:04]
Robin Hatcher
Well, I've made this decision that every morning during breakfast, I listen to a podcast and an educational podcast, something that is either psychology, work, life balance, not Work life Balance, but Adam Grant, you know, hidden brain, all of those things that are going to teach me some new skills. Reading books that they recommend usually. I'm also, like, a continuous learner. I am in, actually, four different masterminds.
- [43:35]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Right now, so I'm in three.
- [43:38]
Robin Hatcher
Yeah, yeah. And definitely reading the books. And just. I guess the most important part is to implement stuff, which is one of my weakest areas, but I'm getting there.
- [43:50]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Well, the only thing that's worked for me is actually when I read a book now or I listen to a podcast or I go to a mastermind group if I don't have my assistant schedule time to sit down. And I bought a special journal just for that. I have an electronic journal now. It's remarkable, which is awesome.
- [44:06]
Robin Hatcher
Yeah, I have one of those, too.
- [44:08]
Kevin Saint Clergy
But she schedules two hours for me to go over where I just was. And that has worked brilliantly because I smile and dial. I live by my calendar. And when I get to that and I tell her, it's funny because I told her to book over it one time and she's like, no, no, you told me to save you from yourself. You're going to do that. You always say that there's been times in the past where you come back from your mastermind and you had two or three great ideas and you have time to implement them. You go back and you use that time appropriately. I was like, way to go, Christina.
- [44:38]
Robin Hatcher
Oh, I love.
- [44:40]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Yeah. So that's one thing I did. It really works because in fact when we were at it's called Funnel Hacking Live, I'm in Russell Brunson's Mastermind group and Tony Robbins was there and my girlfriend at the time, she was like, how do you get through all this stuff? Because I have a real bad habit of getting back and just setting the thing on the shelf and I never.
- [44:56]
Robin Hatcher
Go back through again.
- [44:56]
Kevin Saint Clergy
I was like, well, have your assistant schedule time to do so and you'll actually get what gets scheduled, gets done.
- [45:03]
Robin Hatcher
Yes, yes.
- [45:04]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Well, Robin, awesome time together. How can people get ahold of you if they want to get in touch?
- [45:10]
Robin Hatcher
Reach out to me on LinkedIn for one Robin with a Y Hatcher. Or you can email me robinpeakectera.com and go to my website robinhatcher.com and you can find all of that out.
- [45:22]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Well, Robin, thank you. I could have gone another hour with you because it's stuff that I'm pretty passionate about. But thank you again for being here. Incredible information. I think everybody's gonna love it. Anything else you wanna leave the listeners with before we go?
- [45:34]
Robin Hatcher
No, I just wanna thank you for having me and I can't wait to read your book. Cause I love the concept of it and the.
- [45:39]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Yeah. And everything you do. It's making me feel pretty good. Cause we have. It's a proof copy. But you also described in one of your things. Do you notice how there's pointing fingers in the last person? The little one is pointing at herself. Right. So that's what happens in blind blaming. Eventually people are pointing fingers. Then all of a sudden you start saying, well, maybe I'm the failure, maybe I'm the problem.
- [45:58]
Robin Hatcher
Yes, yes, yes. I have a slide that I use of people pointing fingers towards each other.
- [46:03]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Yeah, yeah. And then you figure out sometimes it's not you. And I think that's a big problem I have with a lot of self help books that are constantly attacking us. And sometimes like my vision was out of my control. Nobody knew. Well, thank you again, Robin. Let's stay in touch.
- [46:18]
Robin Hatcher
Sure. Definitely.
- [46:19]
Kevin Saint Clergy
See you later.
- [46:19]
Robin Hatcher
Take care. Bye.
- [46:23]
Kevin Saint Clergy
Sa.