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Beyond Blind Blaming
Mastering LinkedIn and Interview Strategies to Fast-Track Your Career Growth | Dr. Kyle Elliott
00:36:36
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- [00:01]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
We can't change the job market. We can only change your stories.
- [00:04]
Kevin St. Clergy
Today I'm joined by Dr. Kyle Elliott. He's a renowned career coach and strategic advisor who has helped hundreds of professionals and executives land their dream roles.
- [00:13]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
We've landed seven, eight interviews with companies and none of them are converting. Maybe if it was two or three, we could say it's luck or chance, but there's kind of two groups of people. One group of people, they're like, oh, I'm going to take responsibility. Here's how I'm contributing to this. And then the other group is everyone else. It's a bad job market, it's a bad boss. Oftentimes people just want to duplicate each other. They just keep asking other people for their opinions. And with LinkedIn, for example, they're like, let me go find 10 LinkedIn profiles I love and make mine look like theirs. Well, then you're not going to stand out. You're always going to be a step behind or several steps behind.
- [00:49]
Kevin St. Clergy
Can you think of one unconventional career strategy that most professionals overlook but would completely change their job search or career trajectory?
- [00:56]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Something that I think is powerful is.
- [01:11]
Kevin St. Clergy
Welcome to beyond Blind blaming. This is the place where we explore how easily hidden truths can hold us back, trapping us in cycles of frustration and blame, often without even realizing what's truly stopping us. Each week, I'm joined by experts and professionals who share their journey of taking back control of their story, overcoming hidden challenges, and discover how to stop blind blaming from dictating their outcomes. The insights you're about to gain will help you see beyond your current limitations, find the courage to seek new perspectives, and ultimately live a life that's both purposeful and powerful. So if you're ready to break free from blind blaming and discover what's possible, you'll definitely want to listen to our next guest. I'm your host, Kevin St. Clergy, and today I'm joined by Dr. Kyle Elliott. He's a renowned career coach and strategic advisor who has helped hundreds of professionals and executives land their dream roles, command their value and begin fulfilling careers. Known for his no nonsense yet compassionate approach, Dr. Kyle brings a unique blend of expertise and personal branding, LinkedIn optimization and interview strategy. His clients range from Silicon Valley tech leaders to executives in the Fortune 500, and his work has been featured in Business Insider, Forbes, and Fast Company. As the founder of Caffeinated Kyle, he's built a powerhouse consulting practice that equips professionals with the tools that they need to break through career barriers and achieve their most audacious Goals. Kyle, welcome to the show.
- [02:37]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here and for this important conversation.
- [02:41]
Kevin St. Clergy
Well, let's start with your journey. What led you to become one of the go to career coaches for high achievers in tech and corporate leadership?
- [02:48]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
It was 100% an accident. I literally started on Fiverr, the online marketplace where you can get a logo made or someone can record your voicemail or in my case in college I literally charged $5 to review someone's resume to write their about section on LinkedIn. And it was just supposed to be a side hustle in college and that grew into 30 hours a week on top of my full time job. And seven and a half years ago now I left that to run the business full time and my niche has developed into tech and Silicon Valley executives like you said.
- [03:23]
Kevin St. Clergy
Well, I loved your personal brand Caffeinated, Kyle. It's instantly recognizable. How did you craft your brand and what can others learn from this approach?
- [03:31]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
It's twofold. One, I just love coffee. I usually would have a coffee. I had my morning one BAFTA call today. I'm going to be heading to Starbucks for an afternoon one. The other is I help people caffeinate their brands, their interview stories, their resume, their LinkedIn profile. It's really taking it to that next level and fueling it. And then it rhymes too, so that helps as well.
- [03:51]
Kevin St. Clergy
Yeah, no, I loved it. Rolled off the tongue like chimichanga, as they say. Well, in your work with executives and job seekers, how often do you find that people blame external factors like bad bosses, job markets, when the real issue lies within themselves.
- [04:06]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Oh goodness, a lot. There's kind of two groups of people. One group of people, they're like, oh, I'm going to take responsibility. Here's how I'm contributing to this. And then the other group is everyone else. It's a bad job market. It's a bad boss. It's the AI bots they think about or the applicant tracking system. So there's kind of two groups of people and most people, at least when we begin working together, it's a lot of external forces they think are contributing to the gap between where they are and where we they want to be.
- [04:34]
Kevin St. Clergy
Do you have two or three things that seem to pop out more often than others?
- [04:37]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yes. So oftentimes it's the job market. I work with a lot of people who are trying to get to the next step in their career and they like blaming the job market. There is not enough roles, those sorts of things. That's super common. Another one is the boss or other people when they're having conflict at work. A lot of times people will tell me a story and say, oh, it's my boss or it's this person. I'm like, where's the eye on this? Can you retell me that story from your own perspective? And they retell, and they're like, oh, maybe I am contributing to this. So a lot of blaming other systems or a lot of times blaming other people rather than taking their own accountability and responsibility for that situation they're in.
- [05:14]
Kevin St. Clergy
Yep, I've seen it too. Can you share a recent story of a client who was stuck because they were misdiagnosing their career struggles? And what did you uncover that changed the trajectory?
- [05:23]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yeah, last week, probably almost every call I was on, it was a reframing one. I was thinking in particular, someone kept landing interviews. And then they're like, every single time I go in for an interview, I. This thing happens or that thing happens. And they kept blaming the company, they kept blaming the current economic situation, all these other things. And I said, well, something's happening here because you've landed seven, eight interviews with companies, and none of them are converting. Maybe if it was two or three, we could say it's luck or chance. But if you're getting seven or eight interviews, they're liking you on paper, you're moving past the recruiter, and then something's happening. So we're able to slow down and realize, maybe it was them. Maybe it was their interview skills. Maybe it was the story they were telling themselves going into the interview. And then once they started unpacking that, and it took a lot of pushing that no nonsense you mentioned, they realized, okay, maybe it's me and how I'm showing up here. Yes, there could be outside factors, and you can't control that. I tell clients, okay, here we are on the screen. What's in your control here that we can change and then ignore everything else? And they were able to see, okay, it was their stories that they were sharing in the interview and the stories they were telling themselves internally.
- [06:32]
Kevin St. Clergy
Really? So that's interesting. So the stories that. I mean, I've always said, change your story, change your life. So you're finding that in interview process, people are telling them a story, and then their subconscious takes over and those stories come out in some form or fashion, Is that what you're saying?
- [06:46]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yes. So they're bringing into that interview, oh, there are so many great candidates. So then sometimes they just don't sell themselves enough or they're telling themselves the story. Oh, my accomplishments will speak for themselves. Well, no, they won't. If this interviewer doesn't know you, you have to tell them those stories. Or they're like, oh, I shouldn't be bragging. And I'm like, well, you're not bragging. You're just sharing facts. So there's all these stories that come up. Oftentimes when people work with a coach, they just do a mock interview. And I say, okay, that's great, but what are the actual stories here? What's underneath this that's making it difficult for you to share your story, for you to be landing interviews, to be landing jobs? Like, what's the root under this? Can we unpack that, shine a light on it, and then see how that changes the way that you show up and the way you share your story?
- [07:29]
Kevin St. Clergy
It's interesting because with my marketing background, I had a marketing agency for many years before I sold it and wrote Beyond Blind Blaming, which is what led to this podcast. We always said, look, it's either the hook, the thing you're using to get people's attention, the story, or the offer. And it's usually one of those three things that are causing a problem. But I'm hearing you say it's the same thing when you're looking for a job. It's either your resume, the hook, how you're doing, the interview, the story. Very interesting.
- [07:52]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yeah. And people like blaming everything else. And I say, yes, we can spend. Let me get my timer. We'll set five minutes, and you can venture, and then let's go on to what's in actually your control. Because you and I, we don't get a. We can't change the job market. We can only change your stories. Like you said, the hook, those sorts of things. So let's focus on that.
- [08:09]
Kevin St. Clergy
I love it. Well, it kind of goes to the heart of the book that I wrote, too. So let's move on to something I've been hearing a lot this year. Some conferences I've been to, and just interviews with different people who have different needs, with coaching clients and mastermind groups. I'm finding that a lot of professionals struggle with imposter syndrome, especially when they're trying to go to that next level, even when they're more than qualified. How do you help your clients shift their mindset from doubt to confidence?
- [08:33]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Imposter syndrome is super common. Especially I find among these really great leaders that have a great amount of experience who are super qualified. However, a lot of the information about imposter syndrome out there doesn't really get to the core of it. What happens? They'll say, write out an accomplishment list. That's great. But a lot of times these leaders can recognize their accomplishments. The struggle is with internalizing it. They struggle to internalize it and say, oh, this wasn't luck. Here is my effort that led to it. So what I encourage people to do is to not just write out their accomplishments, not write out their successes. But actually, you could have a T table or two columns and say in the second column, here's the work that went into this. Here's the energy or the effort, or here's how it was not luck. So start reframing and combating what those negative thoughts and say, here's what I actually did to make this happen. So you can start internalizing it and realizing, no, this was because of my effort, my energy, my time, my thoughtfulness, not just because of luck.
- [09:32]
Kevin St. Clergy
It sounds like that people, when there's career searching or they're looking for their. Their dream job, that they do get trapped in patterns of misplaced blame. And I know a lot of times people think that blind blaming is about sometimes blaming yourself. But when I was 10 years old, I had a phenomenal batting average.550 when I was 10. And then it went to zero the next year, and everybody blamed me. My swing, my attitude, my mental state, everything. And we worked on all that stuff. And it turns out after a fluke eye test, it had nothing to do with any of that at all. It was. I just couldn't see. It was completely out of my control. Do you ever run into situations like that where sometimes it is out of the person's control? And do you have some examples of that? Possibly, Yeah.
- [10:10]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I was looking at your TED Talk. It was amazing. I love that example. I plan to share it with clients. I think of it kind of like the doctor us diagnosing before we go in. Yes, sometimes it's yourself. Other times, maybe just the job market isn't right for you and the roles you're applying for. I had a client who kept applying for roles, and I'm like, maybe you're just applying to the wrong roles. We've tweaked a lot on our end. Maybe you're just applying to the wrong roles and that can be helpful. Or maybe you keep targeting companies where they're mostly going to choose people internally. A lot of these roles, they're going for people that they know already. So you applying cold isn't a fit. So we can Try and tweak on our end. And maybe what you're trying to fix isn't the right thing. Maybe we need to diagnose it differently or we've diagnosed it incorrectly. Let's focus on something else. And I think it's powerful to figure out what's actually the issue instead of fix your attitude. Well, you can't fix your attitude out of not being able to see. So I think that's such a beautiful example, your TED Talk.
- [11:06]
Kevin St. Clergy
Do you find that sometimes people are getting bad advice out there? I mean, I'm sure that's what led them to you. It seems like friends and family, as much as they want to help, they seem to be stuck in that cycle of blame as well. Just like I was when I was a kid. See examples of that.
- [11:18]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Oh, yes. A lot of clients, their friends and family want to help them and they give them interesting advice. One client recently, they're like, oh, my parents just said I need a smile more and that's why I'm not landing the job. That might be the case, but most likely not. Unless you're going to like go be a news anchor or something like you not smiling enough is probably not the reason. And it's often people want to help us, but unless they're an expert in this, I'd be mindful. Before taking their advice, have they really done a full comprehensive diagnosis or is it just like some random person giving you advice before you've actually went to the doctor and they've ran tests? And I think that's really key. They can be well meaning, but it can actually backfire. If you're like trying to smile so much that that's not what it is.
- [12:01]
Kevin St. Clergy
Yeah. You come across as a smart aleck or not serious maybe.
- [12:04]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Exactly.
- [12:05]
Kevin St. Clergy
Yeah. Part of the book is called the Solution is Reflect, Connect and Decide. So reflect is where you're looking internally and you're going through different areas of your life or your story or your purpose. But connect meanings that they have to connect with somebody outside of their sphere of influence. And that's one of the reasons I wanted you on the show today, because I'm seeing a lot of high level tech execs who are either reading my TED Talk or seeing me speak or even getting to the book. And they're bringing up a lot of questions like, I don't know, I think you need to find an expert coach, which is what you're here for. And that brings me to one of the advice you have was LinkedIn branding and career storytelling. Why is this so crucial for professionals looking to level up their careers.
- [12:46]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I love what you said too, about this external advice. Oftentimes people just want to duplicate each other. They just keep asking other people for their opinions. And with LinkedIn, for example, they're like, let me go find 10 LinkedIn profiles I love and make mine look like theirs. Well, then you're not going to stand out. You're always going to be a step behind or several steps behind. I think it's critical to figure out what's unique or different about you. What's that hook, like you said earlier, and then put that out there. But then you don't want to just grab their attention and them land on your profile and find you. But them actually say, okay, here's someone I need to talk to. You can meet my needs. And I think what happens is people might do one or the other. They have a really great hook. I want to read it, and then there's no substance there. And I'm like, okay, great, I don't really know anything about you. Or there's a bunch of great information on their profile, but I can't find it. If you think about marketing search engine optimization, you want to do the same on your LinkedIn. Are people able to find you when they type in CTO Chief Technology Officer on LinkedIn? So there's multiple steps and you want to think like a marketer. How are people going to find you? Is it going to convert once they find you? And then importantly, once they actually have a conversation with you, is it going to be the same person? You don't want them to be like, wait, you wrote one way on your profile because you duplicated someone? And then when I talk to you, it's different. So they all should be matching and moving people toward that ultimate goal that you have, whether it's to land a new job, get speaking engagements, join a board. Everything should be in line and moving that seller really forward.
- [14:13]
Kevin St. Clergy
Okay, so I heard a couple of things there. Building your network. I used to say, you'll laugh at this. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 52. So I did a talk for a young group of doctors that were finishing school, and it was there before they went out and got their white coats. And I said, you're only as rich as your Rolodex. Blank looks. The entire audience. So now I say, look, it's that little flippy thing that you have on the desks, but they still don't know what it is because they weren't Even alive when it was invented. I mean, I know LinkedIn can help with that, but any advice on how to create that network? You set a couple of examples. Go to some networking events. What else?
- [14:46]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I would ask people in your network. It seems really simple, but if you already have people in your network, you could say, you know what? You are so fabulous. How do I meet more people like you? Hey, Kevin, it was great being on your podcast. What other podcasts can I be on? Or let's say you have someone who's a mentor. One of my clients wanted more mentors. I said, ask your mentor. Say, hey, I love you as a mentor. Where can I find some more mentors? Another one of my clients, they're in a mastermind. They're like, I want more masterminds. I said, ask your current mastermind for more. A lot of people feel like they have to go do all this legwork themselves, which can be helpful sometimes. But I would use your current resources and then throw fuel on that fire and build it out from there and let it expand.
- [15:26]
Kevin St. Clergy
You know, it's interesting. I had a physician on such a good talk. I included some of it in the book. He said, look, when physicians have problems, especially surgeons, they go out to this network and they ask for their advice. And he said, you know, it's very rare that I see individuals outside of the medical field. They always try to solve their problems themselves. And you're teaching just the opposite. Same thing I always do as well. So it's really good to hear.
- [15:50]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yeah. Some of my most powerful clients, the ones, the leaders that I really admire, they have that really deep network. They have people they call on, they're not afraid to ask for help, and they don't see it as a vulnerability. They think it as a strength and say, okay, I have these networks. Let me go in there and ask for help. And people are willing to help. You just have to ask.
- [16:09]
Kevin St. Clergy
Yeah, I've never seen any successful people not want to help others. We're all here for a reason, because we all have one thing in common. I think it was mentioned in that book Grit. I don't know if you read that yet, but she said the most successful people all have one thing in common. They just want to help people. It was really cool. So the other thing I wrote down is I heard you say, get very clear. So I wrote down clarity as you were talking. If you get really clear on the position that you want or what you want to do next, then it sounds like you reverse engineer everything, like your LinkedIn strategy, your networking, what you say, and that helps you craft a story. Am I on the right path?
- [16:41]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Exactly. You want to be clear on what's that end goal. A lot of people I speak with, I look at their resume and say, I don't know what you're looking for. So how is a reader going to know what you're looking for? I look at their LinkedIn profile or they give me their elevator pitch and I say, I still don't really know what you do or what you're looking for. So making it really crystal clear. I love pulling up Apple's website and having people go there because it's so simple and making it that simple takes a lot of work. I actually had a client who worked on one of their landing pages and it takes so much effort to get down to so few words, but you go there and you know exactly what they're selling, you know how to buy something, you know how to get more information. So for each of your marketing materials, that needs to be really straightforward. People should not be confused whatsoever about the exact types of roles you're looking for, exactly what you have to offer, exactly what you're looking for. And I find executives feel like they have to get really complex, but actually being really simple is so powerful when you're looking for a new role.
- [17:35]
Kevin St. Clergy
Are you tired of feeling stuck in your business, career, relationships or your health? Are you frustrated by problems that just won't go away no matter what you try? After coaching and teaching thousands of people for over 25 years, I've discovered something powerful. Every unresolved problem has a hidden solution you just can't see yet. That's why I created the From Stuck to Breakthrough challenge. A free 5 day live experience where I'll show you exactly how to uncover what's really holding you back and finally break free to the results that you want. Whether it's in your business, your health, your wealth, your relationships. I'll help you discover the real root cause of your challenges and give you the blueprint for permanent change. Join me and a community of like minded people ready to break through. Go to blindblaming.com again, that's blindblaming.com to sign up and we'll see you soon. Can you think of one unconventional career strategy that most professionals overlook but would completely change their job search or career trajectory?
- [18:32]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Something that I think is powerful is reverse mentorship. One of my mentors taught me that. She's my mentor, I'm her reverse mentor. So having those people you can learn from, so a lot of the people I work with are 40 to 60 years old and they want to learn more about social media or they want to learn about their current workforce, which are a lot of millennials and now Gen Z. So do you have people who are teaching you as well? So yes, you can be a mentor, but also do you have reverse mentors? So people who are younger than you or who have a specific skill who can teach you and that can be really powerful to be able to get that knowledge from them and those skills. Yes, you could go take a course or something. But having that community of people, I know you talk a lot about that. That group of people you can call on is so powerful. And they don't have to be older than you, they don't have to be more experienced. They can just offer a different perspective as well.
- [19:24]
Kevin St. Clergy
It's funny, I had to do the same thing. My coach was pushing me to get into AI this year, which I finally did. And I can't believe I waited so long by the way. But he had me go find a couple of younger people who were experts in it. And my favorite quote from one of them is, Kevin, that is so 2017. I could not stop laughing. I'm like, easy, chief, but point taken. I gotcha. So it was hilarious and great, but it's gotten me to not only save me a ton of time, but also teach the team that I work with to save time. Any advice on AI? I mean, I know because one of the we had one person here was another career coach, not in your particular field, they were working with just more mid level managers and below. But he did say that some companies have AI bots. I don't, I don't think they run into that. And maybe tech or maybe they do that are doing some of these initial interviews. Have you run into any of that yet?
- [20:13]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yeah, I've had some clients. One client recently, they had to record a video and it was one way. Now like, okay, I'm recording this video one way and it's just going to be sent off. I attended a conference and one of the speakers talked about that sometimes a human will be reviewing that. Other times there's these different data points that will be reviewing it. When it comes to AI, I think sometimes people use it as their main source instead of making it a tool. I like thinking of it like spellcheck or a grammar check. Instead of people kind of leading with AI, I have executives who just try and write their resume using ChatGPT. I would instead use it as a tool. You have to put good data in for good data come out for your resume or interview, talking points or a LinkedIn profile. I, within seconds can just tell if someone tried writing something purely with AI and they didn't put their own data or stories in there and someone else is going to be able to tell too. AI doesn't know you. Unless you're a really public figure who's put a lot of information out there, it doesn't know it. So I would use it to complement your creative thinking and your innovation, not to supplement it.
- [21:16]
Kevin St. Clergy
I love it. I think we're always going to need a pilot or a co pilot when it comes to AI, but it does help you come up with great ideas and I do think it can save you time.
- [21:24]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Oh yeah. I think it's powerful and I think it's using it in the right way and in the intended manner.
- [21:30]
Kevin St. Clergy
But at a recent talk I got a good laugh out of the audience when I said, hey, here's an idea. Actually use a human being to talk to somebody. And it was Twitter tech group. And they all started laughing because there was people up there talking about how to use AI to do this and save you time. I didn't know that we were using videos because my old business partner and I with our last company, we did have people shoot a video that was part of their interview process before we got them on the phone. But I never thought, I don't think I could have AI look for it unless you're just looking for specific things. To me, I enjoyed watching the videos. It was more about would they take the time to do it? Like the person that's holding their phone in their car. They weren't serious. I wanted somebody who was prepared, they looked nice, they took the time. That's all we were looking for. It didn't even matter on the answer so much as it did for them. Getting ready for it and putting the time and effort into it because we knew we could teach them the stuff. Any thoughts there?
- [22:19]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I find at the executive level, especially working with tech people, it's exactly that. They worry about having the perfect answer, the perfect structure. It's less about that. Is it? Are you a good communicator? Do you know how to collaborate? If things don't work out, can you work through it? That's more important. People feel like everything has to be perfect when it's much more. They're evaluating what's it going to be like working with you or one of my clients who's an executive who hires a lot, he said, his decision comes down to am I going to want to spend eight hours at the airport with you if there's a layover and we're stuck together? And can I see myself being on Zoom all day with you? And those sorts of things can really influence hiring decisions. Yes, you have to be qualified, you have to meet the minimum qualifications. But it's less about that perfect answer. Those things can be taught and they'll figure it out. It's more about how do you come across. Does this person want to spend time with you? Can they imagine 60, 80 hour work weeks where you're messaging on teams and emailing and on Zoom? Those things are more important, especially at these higher levels.
- [23:17]
Kevin St. Clergy
I had another guest on my podcast already that actually works with companies and she's trying to help them do these mass layoffs with great. It was a very interesting talk, but she had recommended. She has worked with some executives in the past and she had recommended and thought it was a good idea for them to ask about performance, which is one thing, but also ask how you plan to measure my success as well as when you've done layoffs in the past, how have you done them? What do you think about that question? Because I found it very interesting.
- [23:46]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I've had clients ask that, how have you done layoffs in the past or around the pandemic? Can you tell me about how you supported employees through this? Oftentimes when we're going and interviewing with a company, what will happen is they'll ask you a bunch of situational or behavioral questions and then when it's your time to ask them questions, a lot of people will just Google for five seconds, what are some great questions to ask in an interview instead of being thoughtful? And I would ask instead, what questions do you really want to know? Like, that question's amazing and that allows you to really know how did they treat people? But that's also going to tell you how are they going to operate during a merger or acquisition or if there's a big change or if they have RTO return to office? You're going to learn a lot through that. One question one of my clients came up with is, can you tell me about a time there was a change and how did you communicate it to employees? And for my client, it wasn't about the change, but it was more about how they communicate, how they roll it out, who is involved. And I think when people get to that last step, they're so exhausted from the interview, they just want to be done. But really it's that Last impression you're leaving and it's an opportunity to be thoughtful and be memorable and maybe you.
- [24:54]
Kevin St. Clergy
Don'T have to deal with this at the higher levels. But one of the most impressive things that I had it was for a director position. And the last question they asked me was, well, how do you plan to measure my success? And I thought it was really good. I was impressed. I don't know how you feel about that question, but it's just something I've always remembered and shared with others.
- [25:10]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I love that. One I love is like looking back three months or six months from now, how would you know you hired the right person? What would they have done in these first few months? What would that look like? So a variation of what you have there and it really makes people think. And then you're memorable. When they've had five more interviews, 40 meetings later, they're looking back and they're like, ooh, that was that person that really made us think. Cool.
- [25:32]
Kevin St. Clergy
Well, I didn't realize RTO was a term return to office. I didn't know it's got its own acronym already.
- [25:37]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
It is, yes.
- [25:38]
Kevin St. Clergy
Well, I just read this morning somewhere maybe it was New York Times or something that a lot of people are changing and and debating whether they want to return to office or still continue to look for a mobile position. Are you seeing more of those go away or what do you think the trend is there?
- [25:52]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yes, there is a shift with the federal government. There's been a mandate recently, it's in the works now to have a return to office of federal employees. And then we're seeing a lot of tech companies requiring return to office either five days a week or some companies are doing more a three day a week thing. And then it's going to depend too on that manager. I have some companies where there's kind of a company wide mandate and then depending what manager you're under or what department, there's some flexibility. What I found though is a lot of people want remote. There was a stat out of LinkedIn where there was like single digit number of roles were remote, yet double digit number of people were applying for them. So there's way more demand for these remote roles compared to the supply. A lot more people want to work remotely or at least hybrid.
- [26:36]
Kevin St. Clergy
So we in my company we had 23 employees when we sold. So we were pretty decent sized small corporation. But we never had an office, not in 20 some odd years. And we made it work before it was even okay to not have an office. In fact, when Covid hit we had major corporations contacting us saying, how the heck are you doing this? You've been doing this forever. I remember you saying they didn't have an office. And what was really fascinating is when customers used to say, oh, you don't have an office. I don't know. I mean, you could just be up and gone and now it's kind of accepted, but we're moving in the opposite direction. I see benefits for both. Is it more about what people prefer? Does it go back to the clarity thing before? Do you usually ask people what do you want? Is that what people need to decide or should they just expect to have to go back in the office if they want a good high paying job?
- [27:23]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I think it depends on the market and the person and their role. It's going to depend. If you're more in a technology role, there might be more flexibility compared to a marketing or sales role where it demands you to be more in the office or in the field. I the first step I take with people is that clarity. What do they want or what do they need and then how flexible are they willing to be? Maybe they demand a remote role, but the companies they're targeting, that's not going to be possible. So getting really clear on what do they need, what are their preferences and then seeing if the job market aligns or do they have to be flexible or compromise in some aspects.
- [27:56]
Kevin St. Clergy
Well, I'd imagine you work with some pretty high achievers in what I consider to be the most competitive industries. Tech.
- [28:01]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yes.
- [28:02]
Kevin St. Clergy
What's one piece of advice you'd give those feeling stuck in their career progression?
- [28:07]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I would say community. Find help. Don't go at it alone. I think oftentimes people are used to going at it alone and don't feel like you have to. Whether it's fellow executives people are willing to help, whether it's mentors, whether it's a coach. Don't feel like you have to go at it alone. And if it feels lonely, that's because you haven't sought out that help. Probably 98% of the time when I talk to someone, I'm like, oh, I've seen this problem five times this week. Yes, that individual is unique and special. And I tend to see the same things a lot. Confidence imposter syndrome. Feeling like you're not good enough, struggling with your branding and marketing. The same things come up and if people talked more, I think it would be easier for them. But it's normal to not want to share these vulnerabilities.
- [28:49]
Kevin St. Clergy
Cool. Well, I'M a huge fan of a coach. My coach years ago said, my first business coach said, kevin, how many Olympic athletes do you know that won the gold medal that didn't have a coach? So whether it's for career advancement or personal development, sometimes I think people can feel daunting. It can feel daunting, the whole process. How do you help people see the ROI on investing in themselves?
- [29:09]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I ask them. I think it's important for you to envision, what would this look like when we're done? What would success look like? How would you measure that for you to start envisioning the future and what that would look like? And then say, okay, what would it take for you to get there by yourself? Can you walk me through that? And then what would it look like if you had a coach or someone who's been through that path a thousand plus times with clients? Yes, each path is different, but I've walked that path a lot as that co pilot with people, you're in the driver's seat, but what would it be worth? What would it feel like? How would your life be different if we walked that path together and you had someone who said, oh, don't go down that way, or, oh, this way is going to take a lot longer, or, ooh, you need to put your foot on the pedal, you're not going quick enough, or, oh, let's take a break, what would that look like? And that can be powerful for people to start to reflect.
- [29:54]
Kevin St. Clergy
I like it. And what I'm hearing you say, I think, is you're really trying to get people to have more of a growth mindset than a fixed mindset. And when you run into those fixed mindset people, how do you get them to the other side where they're not taking feedback as a personal attack? And I would think sometimes, because I know I'm guilty of it, I've had some level of success where sometimes certain solutions are hidden, which is a big part of my book. And I don't see it. And I know why now because of all the research we did for the book. But how do you get people from that fixed mindset to a growth mindset?
- [30:24]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
When you run into it, it's incredibly challenging to move people from one to the other. My undergrad was in public health health education, which is really, how do we change behavior? And then all of my coaching work, my doctorate in education, was on that. And I think a part of it is really figuring out their motivation. Why is this important to them? It's such a simple question. But figuring out why is this important to you? Why is this change important? Why is this goal important? And then how can we start moving you toward that? By using that underlying motivation. And then if there's something underneath this that is stopping you, I think of it like an iceberg. When people come to me, there's maybe 10 or 20% above the surface. Yes, we know some of our motivation, we know some of what's keeping us stuck, but what's the other 80 or 90% below the surface that has you stuck? Or are there underlying motivations that are competing with this? Us figuring out that other 80 or 90% below the surface is the role of coaching and us to see all of it. And if you see the entire iceberg, you're not going to hit it.
- [31:22]
Kevin St. Clergy
Well, I know if I read correctly, you advocate for mental health in the workplace. How can professionals balance ambition with self care and avoid burnout? Because I'm seeing it more and more.
- [31:31]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
I think they're one in the same. When you take care of your mental health, when you practice self care, you're going to be more successful in the workplace. When my clients don't have time for mindfulness or they don't have time to stop working at a reasonable hour or all of that, that's the time when they need it most, I say, no, this is the time. Really, we need to add extra. Okay, you don't have time for 10 minutes of mindfulness. Okay, let's make it 20. That's the time people really need it. And then they see results, they're able to come back to their work more refueled, recharged, relaxed, more creativity, innovation. It's so powerful and at first it's really hard for people. We're used to just powering through. That's what we're used to. But as you said, with these athletes, we see the same. Simone Biles did a beautiful example of, okay, let me actually take a step back and I'm going to show up even better the next time. And it can be really powerful. And it just takes some mindset shifts, some reframing for people.
- [32:23]
Kevin St. Clergy
And she did come back pretty strong.
- [32:25]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Exactly.
- [32:26]
Kevin St. Clergy
I remember I was like, wow, she did a good thing and taught some people some things in the process. Well, if you could go back and give career Advice to yourself 10 years ago, what's one insight you wish you'd have known sooner?
- [32:39]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
To not be afraid to take risks. It was so scary when I left my full time at a university job. I had my housing paid for at a Meal plan, made a good salary and leaving that to run this business full time. And each time I wanted to make a change. I'm a type a recovering perfectionist. I wanted everything planned and to realize no matter how much you plan, there's so much you can't plan for. And I wish I would have been more open to that. And that's something I'm trying to embrace more. Just kind of trusting that I've done all this foundational work, I've built this safety net for myself that no matter what I do, it's okay and things are going to work out, even if they're not working out in the way I expected.
- [33:19]
Kevin St. Clergy
It's funny, we just went through a coaching session with my coach. He's like, you know what's holding you back on some other things, Kevin, is you are so scared that you're going to lose everything, that you don't put some other things ahead of what you're doing. Going back to that balance question, he nailed me. He was right. I was like, he's like, you're not going to go broke, buddy. You've been doing this too long and you put yourself in a good position. You just need to put this other thing first.
- [33:41]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
And it takes practice.
- [33:43]
Kevin St. Clergy
Yeah, there's no doubt about that because I am used to, as Dan Martell just says, look, I was in that get shit done mentality. Just get it done no matter what. Push everything else aside, get it done. Don't take care of yourself. And I'm very guilty of that. It's one of my habits and goals this year.
- [33:58]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
God. Oh, I love that.
- [33:59]
Kevin St. Clergy
Well, you've clearly learned to invest in yourself. What are some ways that you like to grow and learn?
- [34:05]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yeah, my own therapist, I have therapy this afternoon with her coaching, I, for the first time I got a spiritual director about two and a half years ago. I went through a period of having a lot of existential anxiety. And then at the same time I learned what spiritual directors were and hired one. It's been a little over a year. I've been doing Pilates now, so a lot of different ways. I tend to keep adding things kind of once I'm like, okay, this feels similar, stable. What can I add? Now I'm involved in communities, coaching communities, human resources, communities, resume writing communities. So I think of it, I was going to say like a three legged stool, but it's really like a 12 legged stool. There's a lot of different things I keep adding to make sure we go to Disneyland a lot. We're going this weekend for Valentine's Day. So always finding ways to care for myself. It's easy. My job, eight hours a day, I'm caring for other people, coaching and empowering them. It's important to then be fueling myself as well.
- [35:02]
Kevin St. Clergy
Cool. I love it. Well, if people need to get ahold of you, how do they do?
- [35:05]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
So my website, caffeinatedkyle.com and then I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. Kyle Elliott with two L's and two T's.
- [35:12]
Kevin St. Clergy
Okay, great. Well, thank you for being here. Incredible talk. I wish we had more time, but I need to wrap it up. And I'm sure you've got other things you need to do as well. But thank you for being here. Incredible information, and I definitely want to make sure that you and I stay in touch.
- [35:25]
Dr. Kyle Elliott
Yes. Thank you for having me.