← Beyond Blind Blaming
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- [00:00]
A
And when I left headship in 2004 and started to work with businesses, it worked for them. Because it is about how can we as leaders be the best version of ours that we can be and how do we nurture and grow the potential of our team who are in fact our treasure. And when you do that, and you do it in a way that is done with true authenticity, where you really care about your people and they know it, where you're a good role model, then magic happens.
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Today I'm joined by Gina Gardner. Gina is a three time number one international best selling author, Radical Change Catalyst speaker, Master NLP Practitioner and Transformational Leadership mentor with over 35 years of experience helping leaders worldwide step into their genuine power. As the Founder and CEO of Genuinely youy and creator of the Enlightened Leadership Program, Gina has supported countless individuals, teams and organizations to lead with integrity, compassion and authenticity. Her approach combines deep inner work with practical leadership strategies to create lasting transformation.
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A
Get an enlightened leader who truly knows their own worth and recognize it. As a leader, they want the best of the best. Their job is to lead them, not to be able to do everything that they can do. But that's unlikely if the person themselves hasn't got that sense of self worth or hasn't done that in a world and so knowing your values.
- [01:42]
B
Welcome to Beyond Blind Blaming. This is the place where we explore how easily hidden truths can hold us back, trapping us in cycles of frustration and blame, often without even realizing what's truly stopping us. Each week I'm joined by experts and professionals who share their journey of taking back control of their story, overcoming hidden challenges, and discovering how to stop blind blaming from dictating their outcomes. The insights you're about to gain will help you see beyond your current limitations, find the courage to seek new perspectives, and ultimately live a life that's both purposeful and powerful. So if you're ready to break free from blind blaming and discover what's possible, you'll definitely want to listen to my next guest. I'm your host, Kevin Saint Clergy and today I'm joined by Gina Gardner. Gina is a three time number one International bestselling author, Radical Change Catalyst speaker, Master NLP Practitioner, and Transformational Leadership mentor with over 35 years of experience helping leaders worldwide step into their genuine power. As the Founder and CEO of Genuinely youy and creator of the Enlightened Leadership Program, Gina has supported countless individuals, teams and organizations to lead with integrity, compassion and authenticity. Her approach combines deep inner work with practical leadership strategies to create lasting transformation what makes Gina's story particularly compelling is her personal journey. After a serious ski accident in 1983 and two failed back surgery, she learned to walk twice as an adult and ran an award winning school for over 20 years, much of it from a wheelchair. Her school made her Majesty's Inspector's list Of the top 100 schools in England twice. And Gina also hosts the Gina Gardner and Friends show where she explores personal empowerment, authentic living and enlightened leadership. Gina, welcome to the show.
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A
Thank you very much for enjoying button. It's a real pleasure to be here.
- [03:32]
B
Well, let's start with your incredible journey running an award winning school and a leadership program from a wheelchair. How did that experience shape your understanding of what truly matters in life and in leadership?
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A
For me, it's been a huge gift. So I was appointed as a deputy principal or a deputy head teacher. It would be in the UK where I am very young. I was 29, 28 when I was appointed to be the deputy and I was appointed to be the catalyst for change. And six months later I went on a ski trip and I had a significant fall about 200ft down a black diamond run. And as a result I became wheelchair boundaries. Now I became a headteacher or principal. In January 1984. I was 29 and very green and I had to find a way where I could lead the school where my growing disability did not get in the way. The gift in that was actually that I was forced to find a very different approach to leadership and developing the potential of others. I'd like to think I'd have found that approach anyway, but I'm honest enough to know. The reality is I'd have probably interfered too much, but because I physically couldn't get into the classrooms, I had to find a way of helping people take radical responsibility for their own performance and shared responsibility for the team. And as a process, as a strategy, it was incredibly successful, not only for me, but then we were awarded Beacon School status. And I used the same principles with dozens and dozens of other teachers and schools. It worked for them. And when I left headship in 2004 and started to work with businesses, it worked for them. Because it is about how can we as leaders be the best version of ours that we can be and how do we nurture and grow the potential of our team who are in fact our treasure. And when you do that, and you do it in a way that is done with true authenticity, where you really care about your people and they know it, where you're a good role model, Then magic happens. And every business that I've worked with for more than 10 months has become very significantly more profitable, but in a holistic way, because people have got ownership of whatever it is that the company is trying to achieve, and people feel valued, and so they give of their best.
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B
I love it. Now, you mentioned radical responsibility. I've always taught 100% responsibility. Can you help the audience define what radical responsibility means to you?
- [06:20]
A
The quality of our thoughts determines the quality of our Life. But for 95% of people, 95% of the time, we think in habitual patterns. And those habitual patterns are determined by our beliefs, which in turn, for most people, have been created when they're young and they're not challenged or questioned at all. And so you have thinking based on beliefs that have been installed by your parents, by your teachers, by your caregivers, which may or may not be serving you. So when you're talking about radical responsibility, it's about having a conscious approach to looking at your thoughts and the quality of your thoughts, to considering your beliefs and realizing whether those beliefs are holding you back or pushing you forward, but also then about your emotions. And if you take radical responsibility for your emotions, nobody can make you angry or unhappy unless you give them permission. And it's interesting because people think, well, I don't give permission to let somebody make me feel unhappy. No, we don't do it in real terms, but we do it because we put up with those behaviors with people speaking to us in that way. And so when we're taking radical responsibility, we recognize that our emotions are our issue, and we don't try and give them to other people. But at the same time, somebody can hand us their anger or their sulk or their frustration or their jealousy. It's up to us whether or not we take it on board. And then taking radical responsibility for our behaviors, that means being conscious, because most of the patterns of behaviors go back to these habitual patterns. And if we do do something that's not within our value system, to actually try and put it right and to apologize. And then lastly, our language, and all of us have patterns of language that are generated without any contact with our conscious mind. And so we become significantly reactive rather than proactive.
- [08:32]
B
I love that we have another term that I liked called enlightened leadership for listeners. What does that mean, and how is it different from traditional leadership approaches?
- [08:41]
A
Look around the world and look at the quality of leadership that you see around the world, and you'll see lots of examples of the very opposite of Enlightened leadership. Enlightened leadership means that you are very conscious of what you do, but that is combined with the responsibility of coming from a place of compassion, coming from a place of serving the needs of the person yourself, but also the needs of the other person. Having empathy, being mindful of the impact that you have on the environment, that you do things very consciously and you do things in a way where you want to leave the living legacy moment by moment, through every word you speak, every action you take, when you take it, or if you take it or say it, and that you're actually going to leave a positive marker, one that really is done in a way because you want to make a positive difference to the world, really, rather than being self serving. That you have the courage to do what's right, even though at times that's uncomfortable. But also, if you're an enlightened leader, you recognize the importance of listening to that inner wisdom, having that connection with that higher power, whatever you may call it, and recognizing that you are not an isolated being, that we are all connected, whatever our color, our creed, however we operate in the world, everything we do has an impact on other people, on the environment and other living things.
- [10:26]
B
I love it. It's definitely different. And I love the name, by the way. I don't know, how did you come up with enlightened leadership? Where did the name come from?
- [10:33]
A
I think it was part of my own conscious journey, that recognizing we're all so busy being busy, that I think that what struck me, and I practice what I preach, I've always worked with a mentor who's further advanced in me in whatever particular area I'm working with. And it seemed to me that age of enlightenment, if you think about the history, it was a time when people moved from the dark ages into an understanding that there was more than you could understand by what you could see or feel and experience, that there is something bigger. And so enlightened leadership is somebody who works on the basis of my best self today is only the foundation of my best self tomorrow. And that's the foundation of the next best self. Somebody who's curious, who wants to consistently work on growing and being even better. Presuppositions, they're not bad. But how do I evolve? How do I grow? And that, for me, seemed to be embodied by the word enlightened.
- [11:37]
B
I like it. This is way before AI. So I guess you had to come up with that on your own.
- [11:41]
A
I did indeed. It was long before AI.
- [11:44]
B
Yeah, I had somebody tell me that the Other day, because my first book came up and they're like, wow, you wrote this before AI, didn't you? It was a younger person. I was like, yes, I did. It was much more difficult to write a book. But I still wrote my book today. I did use AI for idea generation, which made it a lot easier and probably a lot faster, especially since I used to have a business partner that had a double master's in English. And he always said, for a guy who's such a great speaker, your writing is so coarse. So AI has helped me not be so coarse.
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A
But you do realize that you're very different part of your brain when you write to when you speak. Completely different part of your brain. So I'm not surprised it's different.
- [12:29]
B
Oh, yeah, I drove him crazy. Yep. And then he had me do some project. He was trying to see if I could actually write. And he's like, I knew you could write. You just need it in the right framework. And what he found was he needs to. He would get me on the phone and interview me, and he would use my interview as a way to. And then he would write the blog post. So it worked really well.
- [12:48]
A
So anyway, sounds like a perfect partnership.
- [12:51]
B
Yep. You said when you were answering, you emphasized that leaders must lead themselves first before they can effectively lead others. I think I heard you say that. If not, I saw it on your website for sure. What does that deep inner work look like? And why do so many leaders skip this step?
- [13:06]
A
You think because they skip it because it's hard. And people are very loath to look inwards and to consider themselves. But what I mean about doing the inner work is you. Look, let me give you examples of leaders, not by name, but in terms of behaviors. If you have done the inner work on yourself and you have a really good relationship with yourself, that your self worth is good and it's not based on your bank balance or on your accolades, you're in a very different position for somebody who feels the need to be seen to be right because that's the only way that they feel good about themselves. Somebody who's got strong self worth, somebody who recognizes that actually, however good you are, there's always the opportunity to be even better is going to operate very differently. Somebody who's done that deep inner work on themselves knows their strengths and works to those strengths, but they also know their areas for development. And so, for example, if you are the boss of an organization or the boss of a team, if people haven't done the inner work, you'll often find that they will appoint people who are not as good as them because they don't have the confidence to lead people who are actually better at them in different areas of the work. And so everything gets dumbed down. Get an enlightened leader who truly knows their own worth and recognize it as a leader. They want the best of the best. Their job is to lead them, not to be able to do everything that they can do. But that's unlikely if the person themselves hasn't got that sense of self worth, hasn't done that inner work. And so knowing your values now, most organizations look at values and they're stuffed in the handbook or they're on a poster behind the desk. But do you know what behaviors need to underpin those values? And if you do, does your staff? Do you have a shared understanding, a shared language around those values? You and I are talking. I could be talking apples and you're talking oranges. But as we communicate, we're creating a language of fruit. And so good leaders recognize that because you've spoken the words doesn't mean that that's how they've landed. And so you have. It's almost like a dance, really, where people come together and create something which is connected and shares the strengths of everyone. And enlightened leaders can do that well when they know themselves.
- [15:48]
B
I love that. And you said something, I wrote down when a leader says something, but it doesn't land. I found the best leaders in my life. The ones that I remember is they don't say much, but they do a really good job of asking great questions. How important do you think that is, to be an enlightened leader?
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A
Absolutely critical. So many people think that I've said it, therefore the other person not only has heard it, they've understood it in the terms that I've meant it, which in many cases is pretty rare, that they've taken it on board and they're going to do it. The reality is that because you've said it and you've used words that are meaningful to you, they're not necessarily meaningful in the same way to the other person doesn't mean that they're stupid. We have a blueprint. Each of us, but our blueprints, every one of us has a blueprint which is different. And it's only when you create a shared blueprint, whether you're talking about a personal relationship or you're talking about a team having a shared blueprint or an organization having a shared blueprint, that they are going to sustain success. And one of the things that I've noticed, particularly since the recession 2008, 09, many leaders have got stuck into the belief that if I just set targets and I drive people harder, that the business will be more successful. And in some cases, they are more successful in the short term. But people become burnt out. They become. I don't know if you're familiar with the saying, rather than being present, that they are someone who is physically present in work, that they are not actually present in work, they're not firing on all cylinders, they're not engaging, they're not bringing you their best. And it was thought in 2021, which is the last figures that have been published, that in the UK, 70 billion pounds was lost because people were absent from work, 140 million billion pounds was lost because of presenteeism, where they were physically present, but they weren't actually fully present and engaging. And I think the difference is that when you have enlightened leadership and you want it ultimately at every level, then everybody is engaged. When that happens, you keep your staff longer. They aren't as ill because they're not stressed, they are more productive because they really want to engage and deliver whatever it is. That the vision is that their home life is better, that their relationships at home are better, fewer marriage breakups or partnership breakups, everybody benefits. And everybody I've worked with has said, you know, if I've worked with them professionally, they've said that this has really made a difference to my personal life. And if I'm working with them personally, they say, well, I've got better relationships at work, things are going better at work, because this is about life. And people tend to demark personal life and professional life, that we're the common denominator. We take ourselves into every moment of every day that we're alive. And so getting these lessons for life work in every context of life.
- [19:13]
B
I love that because one of my favorite quotes, which is, actually, I think we talked about it on your show, how you do anything is how you do everything.
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A
Absolutely.
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B
And I remember hearing that for the first time. I might have been drinking a couple of beers in a pool with a consultant who lived in my apartment complex years and years ago. But I'll never forget that moment. I was like, oh, my God, that makes so much sense, because if you're not running things well at home, you're not going to be running things well at work or it will eventually catch up with you.
- [19:40]
A
And I think you've only got to look at the number of people who are stressed who have poor mental health, the number of suicides and how many people are on antidepressants who are really struggling. And we have to take some responsibility ourselves, but collectively have to look at what's going on and why that's happening and how do we solve some of those problems. Can't solve them all, but you can solve some of those and particularly those that you have influence over. And as a leader, whether that's a parent and you're the leader of your family or you're the leader of your friendship group or an organization or a huge conglomerate, you have responsibility to demonstrate through your role model or somebody said to me your soul model, how you operate.
- [20:34]
B
Well, that's perfect. A segue into the blind blaming, which is the topic of the, of the show. If you, as you know. But what would you say are some of the most common internal blind spots that cause, that keep people stuck but then cause them to blame, like blaming their circumstances, their team marketing conditions instead of looking inward.
- [20:51]
A
I think if you're talking about individuals, well, whether it's work or not, it's everybody else's fault. You know, that people are a victim to the economy's not right if you're a boss. If only I could. I was talking about this the other day to one of my clients and we were laughing about when I first started working with him and he went through the list, if I could, the economy was right and I could get the right workers and the workers would do what I asked them and they worked really hard and they didn't take time off. And, and, and, and, and, and I just said to him, okay, and what are you doing that contributes to that? And he looked at me as if I had, you know, really come off a different planet. But over time we looked at how he was actually training his staff to be dependent upon him to be the fount of all preferment in terms of this is good, bad or indifferent because he'd not trained them to do that. How teachers will, you know, the child puts their hand up and they will say you've got to put your hand up. But if they don't, and then going miss, miss, miss, miss, miss. They answer them and then say, put your hand up. The next time they're training their young pupils to behave in a particular way. And we do it all the time. We train other people to continue in the very pattern that we don't like. And so part of taking radical responsibility is to look at what are we doing. So blaming the circumstances, looking outwards rather than inwards first. But one of the other things I would say is that who was it that said, if you think you'll fail or you think you'll succeed, the likelihood is you're going to be right?
- [22:39]
B
Yes, I think it was. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I totally just interrupted you, but you triggered me, Henry Ford. Whether you think you're right or whether you think you can or you can't, you're right, I think, is the way it goes anyway, so, sorry.
- [22:52]
A
That's okay. And I think that that is just so true. And I'd like to, if I may, share a very personal story with your listeners. Yes. So by the time this story took place, I'd been a head teacher of a large school or principal of a large school for just over 20 years. Because the school had such a bad budget. I went out and I. I worked a whole range of different roles that brought an income into school. Not all at the same time, only one at a time. So I was an Ofsted inspector, a workforce reform advisor, I was a whole range of things, each one. I worked for the National College of School Leadership as a trainer, facilitator for the National College as an assessor trainer, which kept the school at cutting edge. And I did most of the work in my own time, but the contact time was all over the country and I would have a taxi pick me up from home, drive me to wherever I was going, wait for me and bring me back. Now, that was when I was completely wheelchair down, so people would say, you know, here is someone who doesn't easily allow limitations to get in the way. When I left hedshick in late 2004, I decided to do some more studying and I became an NLP Master practitioner. And because I'd done all of my NLP training and extra coaching training with them, I decided to go and see as many people using NLP as I could. And one of these was Tony Robbins. Now, I have to say I was pretty cynical to start with this great big American guy. I thought, it's all a bit of hype. And so I ended up at Big Cell Centre in London to go on his three day unleash the power within. There were 10,000 people on that course. And on the first morning he was talking about a course he was going to run in California, and I dismissed it out of hand. I didn't have an electric travel chair in those days and I thought, how am I going to manage getting to California, doing the course on my own? And I just dismissed it in the evening, they did the firewalk. And for those of you that have not done it, you walk on hot coals probably about 30ft. And if you're in the right mindset, you do not get burnt. And I was determined to do that. And by 2006, I'd had a spinal stimulator fitted, internal one, which is like an internal tens machine. And with a bit of help, holding both hands, I knew that I could just about manage to walk the hot cold. And I was so chuffed with myself that I walked the hot coals. I turned around, sat back in my wheelchair, really, really pleased that I'd done it. And the guy behind me was a double amputee, no legs below the knee. He tipped himself up onto his hands and he walked the hot coals on his hands. And in that moment I thought, if he can do that. I'm self limiting. I bought my ticket, I bought my flight, I went and did the course, I did all Tony's stuff. I became a senior leader. And I recognized that however much I was doing, I was self limiting. And my challenge to your leaders is your listeners. How are you self limiting? Because if you believe you can't, it's a done deal. If you believe you can, even if you don't know how, you are far more likely to achieve. And I'm so grateful to that guy. I have no idea who he is, but I've shared that story with thousands of people and know people have come back to me and said that made a real difference. So just think about it. What's your hold up? What's holding you back? Because if you're held back because you're fearful of leaving your comfort zone or your familiarity zone, that's going to become a straitjacket. But as soon as you step out of it, it expands. And that guy taught me a very salutary lesson.
- [26:57]
B
Well, I bet that is an amazing story. I love it. Thank you for sharing.
- [27:00]
A
Oh, you're welcome. Yeah.
- [27:03]
B
So you've written about leadership based on ego, division and fear. And how do you think that ego driven leadership prevents people from seeing the real problems they're solving?
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A
If you come from a place of ego and fear, you've already put parameters on your thinking because you're going to stay within what feels safe. And what feels safe and right to you is just an illusion. And one of the challenges around our ego is its purpose is to keep us safe, then that's its only true purpose, I believe. But when you are in your ego, and that's what's calling the shots? You don't allow any space for curiosity, for compassion, really, because the being right and doing what you think you want to do rather than what needs to be done. It's like trying to do something with, in some cases, a veil in between, some cases a thick brick wall between your reality and the reality of other people. And the trouble is, you begin to believe your own hype. And there are always people who are happy to do Emperor's New Clothes and tell you how wonderful you are. And so the whole cycle gets repeated and repeated, and it's a very dangerous situation for you, for your team, and for those people that you serve. And I think that when you get up in the morning, leave your ego under your pillow with your pajamas or your nightie and come into the day recognizing you don't have all the answers. And these days, there's too much going on. You can't have all the answers. You want to be surrounded by people who are critical thinkers, who are honest and authentic, who are creative, who want to work together to make things even better.
- [28:58]
B
I really like that. I think what you described is when, and you said this earlier, leaders get caught in survival mode where they're stressed, overwhelmed, burned out, and they feel like they have to do everything themselves, which means they have the wrong team members, but. Or sometimes not. Maybe they just don't give them the freedom that they need to do what they need to do or the opportunity. Right? So what's really happening beneath the surface there? What are they not seeing?
- [29:19]
A
If you are living from a place of fear, everything's contracted. So your world gets smaller and smaller. And if you are feeling threatened, then when somebody has a good idea, it's not seen as a great creative idea, it's seen as a threat. And so it gets shut down. And you do that. You don't have to do it too many times before people stop giving you the ideas and sharing their thoughts with you. And so your already contracted world becomes even more contracted. And then if you add to that that you are looking for reinforcement that what you've decided is right, instead of seeing people saying to you, actually, Kevin, have a think about this. I don't think this is necessarily the best way forward. They get shut down and people say, oh, of course, you're right, it's wonderful. Go for it. And so people get channeled into behaving and taking decisions based on what's really quicksand. The other problem that can often happen is that their decisions based on the last person they've spoken to. So because they don't have the confidence in their own thought processes, it's not been, they haven't got the clarity, they've not looked for the data, they've not engaged with the experts and listened to them. That then they start to listen to whoever they've spoken to last and decisions get overturned and overturned and overturned and there are many self sabotage patterns but all of them end up with the same result is that everything, the thinking becomes narrower, it becomes very much less created. Now when we were speaking before we started recording, we were talking about AI and there's much talk about will we, you know, will the world end with AI? I believe if we keep our creativity and our humanity and we harness AI as a really clever tool then we can make things hugely better. The danger is that when people are in that very fearful way of thinking that they will close things down and they will make things very, very narrow, very binary. Our left brain thinking right or wrong tends to catastrophize. It is a binary way of thinking and that comes from a place of fear. If we can get into right brain thinking where your critical thinking is solution finding creativity, your understanding and communication that requires you to be in a place where you are not fearful. And I think we can see lots of evidence where too many leaders are coming from a place of catastrophe rather than a place of solution.
- [32:09]
B
Well, I think that's great because we even say in the book, if you're too busy blind blaming, you can't see solutions that are there right in front of you.
- [32:17]
A
So and if you can't see them in reality, they don't exist for you. You could only, you know, you close the window, you close the door and put a bolt on the door. If you're open to the possibility that there is a solution out there, then you're going to make a very different set of thought processes and choices that are likely to lead you to a far better solution than if you think it's all terrible and I can't do it and I don't know what to do, then you are putting yourself and your team, if you're a leader of a team or of an organization, you are really. It's a matter of time before the cracks begin to show at a personal level and at the business level.
- [33:04]
B
Yeah, I think you talked about that. The quality of your, quality of your thoughts determines the quality of your life and business. You said that earlier. Yeah, well Gene, you've been absolutely amazing. You and I could talk for hours and hours on end there's one question I like to ask every guest. What is your favorite way to invest in yourself? You've clearly invested in yourself over the years, whether it's reading, podcasting, live events. What's your favorite way to invest in yourself?
- [33:27]
A
I'm curious. And so always looking to grow and to evolve. And so my, in a sense, my favorite way of investing myself will shift depending on which bit of me and which area of my life I am wishing to work on. And I'm very flexible in that. The one thing is that I invest in learning all the time in whatever format that might take. And some of that is self learning. Some of that will be talking to someone who is much further advanced on me and having them as a mentor. It could be going on a course, but ultimately for me, the investment in terms of lifelong learning has to be ongoing.
- [34:12]
B
That's great. I love it. Well, if our listeners want to get in touch with you and improve their leadership skills, what's the best way for them to get in touch?
- [34:20]
A
So they can email me@ginanuinely you.com that's G I N A. And then at genuinely you.com they can go onto the website genuinely hyphen you.com I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook, Instagram. You can find me at Brushwood Media Studios and listen into the show. The show is called Gina Garner and Friends. You'll find Kevin there once the show's been aired. It's on all of the major podcast platforms, so you can come and find me there. And I've got a YouTube channel which is genuinely you with Julia Gardner.
- [34:54]
B
Well, I love it. Well, thank you, Gina, for being on the show. I know how busy you are. I really appreciate none of the listeners do as well. Hopefully we'll have you back again. Have a great day and thank you for being here.
- [35:04]
A
Thank you.