Podcast
Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast
Hosted by David Santistevan · EN
David Santistevan dives into the heart of worship leading, worship ministry, songwriting, and making disciples. Discover how you can take your worship leadership to the next level through practical teaching, expert interviews, and the latest resources for worship leaders. From developing a discipleship strategy, engaging your congregation, writing your own songs, leading your best worship, and so much more, this podcast will help you become the worship leader you are called to be.
12episodes
Episodes
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Pastoring Border Patrol Agents And Immigrants With Evan Wickham
1w ago01:09:51Tap to summarizeI'm not a Lead Pastor, but I can't imagine anything more difficult than pastoring in today's political climate. We feel that these days are unique, but in reality they are not. History has much to teach us. Occasionally I like to bring Lead Pastors onto the podcast to talk about how they're navigating cultural issues. My guest today is Evan Wickham. Evan is the older brother of Phil Wickham, also a worship leader and songwriter, and the pastor of Park Hill Church in San Diego, California. Here's what's interesting: In his very church, he has a Christian Border Patrol Agent and Immigrant families, both trying to make sense of the times in which we live. Evan's perspective on how to pastor faithfully is enlightening. What does faithful pastoring look like? How do partisan politics compromise the gospel? Should our Sunday services address the latest issues in the news or should we just stick to the gospel? Is it possible to pastor from the political center? We can't escape politics, no matter how much we would like to try. Politics effect how we live together. The Bible is a political book. Conversations like this rarely make anyone happy but faithful leaders need to step into the tension. Don't miss the end of the conversation where we talk about worship, songwriting, and the presence of God in our churches. Evan's challenge were beautiful and surprising. Topics Covered: Deconstruction and staying in the Church Why Baby Boomer pastors are not known for letting go 3 signs that you are a healthy pastor The Matt Walsh vs Evan Wickham social media beef How to think about what President Trump is saying and doing How to Pastor both right and left leaning people in your congregation What the presence of God actually means Whether we should pursue revival or not Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Christ the King of Love by Evan Wickham Evan Wickham Substack Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it's almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It's the end of the week. You're about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there's a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you'll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it's all right there, so you're not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.
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How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 with Michael Bethany
2w ago01:02:00Tap to summarizeWhen I accepted my first worship leader position over 20 years ago, I thought worship was all about the stage. Pick the right songs. Have the best musicians. Seamless transitions. Dial in your click and track system to perfection. While there's nothing wrong with those dynamics - there was something I wasn't considering. Worship culture. Now…culture has become a cliche - a buzzword, so to speak. But culture is the environment you steward. It's the conditions you create to shape the people who are a part of your team. And that matters a lot. So today, we're going to talk about worship team culture. My guest is Michael Bethany. Michael is an award winning songwriter, artist, and worship leader. Michael coaches worship leaders and teams all over the world. We talk about how to build a healthy worship culture in 2026, developing leadership pipelines, spontaneous worship, celebrating diversity in the church, and why we need to bring back rehearsals! Topics Covered: Michael's journey to faith in Christ Michael's early influences The posture of a worship leader Developing a leadership pipeline in your church What worship leaders are struggling with Creating systems in your worship ministry Working on your ministry instead of working in it How to do spontaneous worship well Why we need to bring back rehearsals Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible (Click HERE for up to 50% off) Show Sponsor: Planning Center Sanctuary by Michael Bethany Michael Bethany website Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible This episode is brought to you by dwell bible app. In our busy lives finding quiet moments to read the Bible can be challenging. I get it. Traditional, reading focused apps demand undivided attention. You have to carve out specific time and space in your day but this also means missing opportunities to engage with scripture in your car or during workouts, or while you're just doing stuff around the house. And that's where Dwell Bible app comes in, offering a unique way to engage with Scripture. Unlike reading apps, Dwell is audio-based. It allows the truth of Scripture to be read over you throughout your day. Imagine hearing the Bible while driving to work or running in the park or cooking dinner. You don't always need to find a quiet corner. The word is with you wherever you are, filling your every day, mundane moments. So give Dwell a shot— it's a no-brainer. You'll get to experience a whole new way to connect with God
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The Tension Between Organizational Progress And Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson
4w ago01:22:17Tap to summarizeTopics Covered: Developing a theology of suffering The highs and lows of growing up Pentecostal What we can learn about Spirit and Truth from Eugene Peterson The diversity of the body of Christ within the attractional mega church, reformed church, and Pentecostal church The tension between organizational progress and pastoral care The story behind Michael's book title, "Daddy Set The Church on Fire" Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Michael's Website Daddy Set The Church on Fire by Michael Charles Olson Songs of Restoration by Michael Charles Olson Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it's almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It's the end of the week. You're about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there's a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you'll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it's all right there, so you're not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.
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What Native Culture And Indigenous Theology Can Teach Us About Following Jesus with Terry Wildman
Apr 1701:29:09Tap to summarizePart of what I love to do with this podcast is highlight some voices that often get overlooked. Cultures that are often pushed to the margins of influence in the Church but have so much to offer us. Today I'm speaking with Terry Wildman. Terry is the Lead Translator of the First Nations Version of the Bible. Currently there is a New Testament and Psalms and Proverbs available. And the Old Testament is currently being developed. Terry is a man with native ancestry who grew up in Michigan, was saved during the Jesus Movement, and became pastor early on in his life. What's fascinating about Terry's story is he wasn't exposed to the history of indigenous people until later in life. That knowledge led him down a path of decolonizing his faith, becoming a missionary to native peoples, and learning how to disentangle what is the way of Jesus and what is not. This is a deep conversation. Some hard topics. Difficult history. But a challenge we all need. Topics Covered: Terry's journey of discovering his Native ancestry and culture Why what we've learned about Indians in American history is wrong Why we need exposure to indigenous Bible interpretation What makes unity between Native Peoples and the church challenging in our political moment What Christians in America can do today to help Native people Why we need to decolonize the Bible The history of Native Bible translation Terry's favorite Indigenous names for God the Father and Jesus Christ Why native people view their tribes through the lens of a matriarchal, rather than patriarchal system Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center First Nations Version: An Indigenous Translation of the New Testament First Nations Version: Psalms And Proverbs Reading the Bible on Turtle Island: An Invitation to North American Indigenous Interpretation One Church, Many Tribes: Following Jesus the Way God Made You by Richard Twiss Rescuing the Gospel From the Cowboys: A Native American Expression of the Jesus Way by Richard Twiss Birth of the Chosen One: A First Nations Retelling of the Christmas Story by Terry Wildman Everything You Wanted to Know About Indians But Were Afraid to Ask
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Beating Procrastination with Jon Acuff
Apr 700:53:19Tap to summarizeHumans disagree on a lot of things. Religion. Politics. The best brand of peanut butter. But if there's one area where we can find some common ground, it's productivity. Getting stuff done. We all - to a certain degree - have to cross items off our to-do list. Whether you're a stay-at-home parent, Fortune 500 CEO, pastor, or entrepreneur, you have to take action on the goals that matter to you. That's why I'm talking to author/speaker Jon Acuff. He's written a book called Procrastination Proof that simultaneously makes me feel seen and convicted at the same time. You see, I'm a serial procrastinator. When I don't know what to do next, I assume doing nothing will solve it. Problem is, it never does. If you've ever heard Jon speak or read any of his books, it's a fun ride. He's hilarious and practical. In this conversation we talk about procrastination and how to beat it. We talk about Jon's journey as a PK and his perspective on leading a church. We talk about how to deal with criticism, small churches and mega churches, and even some worship leader jokes at no additional church. Topics Covered: Worship Leader jokes How to deal with criticism Why successful leaders develop bad habits One thing every pastor needs The four frameworks for becoming procrastination proof The validity of small churches and mega churches Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Procrastination Proof by Jon Acuff Jon Acuff website Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it's almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It's the end of the week. You're about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there's a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you'll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it's all right there, so you're not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.
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The Bible: How To Read It, Understand It, & Build A Daily Habit Around It with Zach Windahl
Mar 2701:09:51Tap to summarizeTopics Covered: Zach's journey of coming to Christ Following Jesus and suffering Why we need to understand the historical context of the Bible How to read the Bible accurately Out of context Bible verses The clumsiness of prayer How to create a habit of prayer and Bible reading Coffee routines Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Get Brick The Bible, Simplified by Zach Windahl Deep Work by Cal Newport The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg Atomic Habits by James Clear Glitch Coffee Roasters DAK Coffee Roasters Black & White Coffee Roasters Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it's almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It's the end of the week. You're about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there's a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you'll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it's all right there, so you're not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays
Transcribe →
Worship Leader State Of The Union with Chris Kuti
Mar 1001:13:20Tap to summarizeTopics Covered: How Chris got started in Worship ministry How the explosion of a worship industry has malformed us for local church ministry Why we need Worship Pastors in the church What unique challenges Worship Leaders are facing today The downsides to the seeker sensitive movement in the American Church How worship leaders and lead pastors can develop a healthy partnership Leadership skills every worship pastor needs to develop in a multisite context Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Chris Kuti Instagram Multitracks Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what's going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven't already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group thre
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Leadership Lessons For All From The History Of The Black Church with L. Michelle Smith
Feb 2801:05:24Tap to summarizeSomething I am so grateful for is the leadership experience I received growing up in the church. From a young age, I got involved in worship teams. I led small groups. I developed skills. I was put on stages I had no business being on. Church wasn't just a weekly service we attended. It was a leadership incubator. L. Michelle Smith has written a new book called Call And Response: 10 Leadership Lessons From the Black Church. In it she discusses how the Black Church has historically developed high level business leaders. The book borrows from culture, neuroscience, and positive psychology to describe the power of the Black Church and why it has produced so many high level leaders . Whether you've grown up in the Black Church or have never even visited, we all have something to learn here. Because if the church stops developing leaders in favor of merely hiring out a professional, performative workforce, we could be in some trouble. This is David Santistevan. You can reach me anytime at david@beyondsundayworship.com As always, thank you for listening. Topics Covered: Why the history of Call and Response in the Black Church matters to us today Leadership development in the local church Leadership lessons learned in the Black Church What it's like being a successful Black women in corporate America Why The Black Church is seen as inferior in both white and black spaces Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Call And Response: 10 Leadership Lessons From The Black Church by L. Michelle Smith The Black Church: This Is Our Story This Is Our Song by Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what's going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven't already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!
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Making Worship Music That Doesn't Sound Like Worship Music with Trip Lee
Feb 1601:02:49Tap to summarizeThere's an argument that has gone around for decades and it revolves around the idea of how much worship music do we need? Do we have enough? On the one hand, yes, we have more worship music than we'll ever be able to use in our Sunday morning services. And there's also the argument that worship music is the most lucrative music in Christian music. I don't think that can be debated. So while there are business and industry incentives to make worship music that will always exist at the intersection of Christianity and industry, what is the biblical perspective? What does the Bible teach us about singing, songwriting, and corporate worship? Trip Lee is a hip hop artist, a preacher, a rapper, an author…and he's released a worship album. I appreciate Trip and his commitment to God's Word. We talk about the power of worship music, why we need more cultural expressions of it, and how worship music should be viewed as a tool of discipleship. We also talk about culture and Christianity, racial tension, and how we should think about the division in the church right now. Topics Covered: Trip's story of coming to faith in Christ The influence of church music on Tripp's music Musical and theological influences Why Tripp decided to make a worship album The intersection of culture and church Why it can be challenging to partner together across racial and cultural lines Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center For Your Glory EP by Trip Lee & Brag Worship Brag Worship Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what's going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven't already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!
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Uncommon & Creative Ways to Reimagine Your Worship Services with Dr. David O. Taylor
Feb 101:12:40Tap to summarizeTopics Covered: The difference between formation and experience in worship Why our current model of worship experiences isn't wrong, but inadequate The value of silence in our gatherings Why we need artists in the church Creative ways to introduce silence, reflection, and community in our worship spaces The kinds of songs the church needs to be singing today Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Glimpses of the New Creation by W. David O. Taylor Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what's going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven't already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!
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