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B&H Photography Podcast
Next Frame: Get Undeniably Qualified for a Photo Career, with Chelsea Mayer
00:40:48
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- [00:03]
Chelsea Mayer
You're listening to the B and H photography podcast.
- [00:06]
Derek Fassbender
For 50 years, B& H has been the professional source for photography, video, audio and more. For your favorite gear, news and reviews, Visit us@bh.com or download the BH app
- [00:18]
Chelsea Mayer
to your iPhone or Android device. Now here's your host, Derek Fazbender.
- [00:24]
Derek Fassbender
Welcome listeners. I'm Derek Fassbender, host of the BH Photography Podcast. I'm also host of our new monthly series Next Frame, in collaboration with creative producer Jill Waterman and audio engineer Mike Weinstein. The photo industry has many entry points, but a lot of them are elusive unless you really look on today's show, we're taking a deep dive into the story of one young photographer who's built an enviable career out of a mix of unforeseen circumstances and sage advice. Our guest is Chelsea Mayer, a photographer and cinematographer specializing in wildlife, adventure and travel photography. A California Native, she attended UCLA's School of Theater, Film and Television, earning her bachelor's in film production. After spending a few years working on films, Chelsea turned her sights seaward to work as a wildlife photographer and social media manager for local whale watching boats. In 2022, she joined National Geographic Lindblad Expeditions as a certified photo instructor, captain and naturalist traveling along the Pacific coast from Alaska to Baja and all the way to Scotland. Chelsea is a U.S. coast Guard licensed 100 ton captain, a professionally certified dive master, a certified naturalist for a number of organizations, and a partner photographer with Girls who Click, a non profit mentorship organization dedicated to empowering the next generation of female nature photographers. When not on expedition or pursuing photo projects, Chelsea works as a dive supervisor, camera assistant, and safety diver for natural history films. Chelsea Mayer, welcome to the show.
- [02:02]
Chelsea Mayer
Hi Derek, thanks so much for having me.
- [02:04]
Derek Fassbender
Thank you for joining us. That is probably one of the most interesting bios we've had. As I'm reading through everything, I'm like, I want to know about that, I want to know about that, I want to know about that. Let's get started with photography. How did you land and develop your interest in photography?
- [02:18]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, that's probably the most straightforward one. I have always had cameras in my life. My mom was just one of those people that like always had a camera in her hand, always. And from the time that I could like hold a camera, she would let me use her cameras. So it was kind of an amazing amount of trust to put into like a toddler. But yeah, it made it so that that was just kind of always something that I saw the world through you
- [02:43]
Derek Fassbender
know, now I don't feel so bad about putting a camera in my son's hand at a young age. Cause now I'm like, okay, I'm gonna be like, look at Chelsea's website. This is what you could be.
- [02:51]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, absolutely.
- [02:53]
Derek Fassbender
What about filmmaking? Were you always into the filmmaking as well, or what developed your affinity for that?
- [02:58]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, similarly, there were video cameras around too. And I have a younger brother, and we would just kind of goof around all the time and make movies, just make silly little skits and stuff. And so we were always doing that as teenagers. And then I was like, oh, this is really interesting. Maybe I can, like, write some stuff. And so I got a little bit into writing that way as well. So I wasn't really sure if I wanted to do something like writing novels or like being an English major or like being a film major. And so ultimately I decided on filming.
- [03:28]
Derek Fassbender
So it was before the formal education that everything kind of started to take shape. You were like, why wait for schooling? I'm just gonna start doing all this stuff now.
- [03:36]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, yeah, it's too much fun to wait.
- [03:38]
Derek Fassbender
Totally, totally. And you know what? If you have the exposure to it as you did with the family, it's like, everything's already ready made at that point.
- [03:46]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly. It made it easy. I'm very grateful for the childhood I had, for sure.
- [03:50]
Derek Fassbender
Wow, I love that. Now, with the formal education, did that add something that changed you, or was it more just kind of. All right, formal education, obviously it's gonna educ. It's gonna introduce you to new experiences. What changes did you see in the work that you were producing with the formal education?
- [04:06]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, I mean, I ended up trying a little bit of everything. It was really interesting. Cause like I said, I'd always kind of casually been doing all of these things, but it gave it more structure, you know. So I went from, like, you know, just kind of using whatever little handycam to we had to actually shoot 16 millimeter film projects at film school. And this wasn't, you know, that long ago. This was in 2009. We certainly had digital cameras, but, you know, you had to meticulously, like, edit your film on flatbeds and tape it together and everything. And it was just like a new way of looking at those processes that kind of made me understand all the mechanisms behind them. And that's an education that I was very grateful for.
- [04:45]
Derek Fassbender
I love that. Especially in the digital age, where it's like, no, we're not going to skip. We're not going to give you the easy way out. You're going to learn about the process. You understand the romanticism behind the entire process of creating and developing these visions.
- [04:58]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly. There's kind of a lot more respect built in. And then with digital cameras, like, you could really go your whole life without really knowing what a shutter was or aperture. But you have to actually look at them and deal with them when you're shooting films. So that was a really interesting way to learn.
- [05:14]
Derek Fassbender
And I'm guilty of it sometimes, too. It's so easy now to be like, well, I'll be honest with you, I don't really know what this does because I don't use it. It's like, okay, nobody will call you on it now.
- [05:23]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, I have things like that too. Everyone does, I think.
- [05:26]
Derek Fassbender
What's the digital age? What do you want us to do now? As far as the ocean, have you always been interested? I mean, you were born and raised in Cali.
- [05:35]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah.
- [05:35]
Derek Fassbender
Huntington beach, right?
- [05:36]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, Huntington Beach.
- [05:38]
Derek Fassbender
So it's like you would think, okay, that's where it has developed. But is that really, was it. Is it that simple of an answer for no?
- [05:45]
Chelsea Mayer
I mean, not really. Like, that's the first question people ask me is if I surf, because it's like surf City, usa. I don't, you know, I didn't grow up really, like, in the water so much. I mean, we would go to the beach and everything, but we didn't like, have a boat or anything. My mom would take me whale watching a lot. So whales were sort of in my periphery as something that was very cool and that I was interested in, but I didn't really see a way there, you know. So it was like the way that I actually got into being on the ocean and working on the ocean was I just happened to get a whale watch Groupon for my birthday one year and I went on, on this boat and there was a guy on the boat whose was to take photos of the whales and dolphins. And I was like, wow, this is your job? I didn't know that was a job. That's amazing. Can I have this job? And eventually I did get a job doing that.
- [06:41]
Derek Fassbender
It's like new career aspiration unlocked.
- [06:43]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly. How do you know that you want to do it if you didn't know it exists?
- [06:47]
Derek Fassbender
So, yeah, I mean, there's so many jobs like that. I think everybody, when you grow up and you're interested in photography per se, you're like, okay, I have to be a freelance photographer or I have to do this. And it's like, there's so many jobs in the industry. I mean, hello, I'm doing in one of them. It's photo adjacent. I still get my fill of photography in that. But I don't have to press the shutter for a living. And then even people who are pressing the shutter, it's like, there are cool jobs out there. It's like, I've always thought, like, crime scene photographer. It's a job. And I'm like, wow, that's an interesting photography job.
- [07:16]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, totally. I'm open to it. Any of it.
- [07:19]
Derek Fassbender
Of course. Of course. Now I got to ask, because my first time going whale watching, I noticed that I was one of the 98% of the boat that was being handed bags constantly. I'm not gonna go further. I don't want our listeners to get sick. But I'm like, okay. It made me feel good. Cause I wasn't alone. And it was the kids. The kids were the only ones who weren't getting sick. It was like all the adults were getting sick. So are you guys born with sea legs? When you grow up on the ocean.
- [07:44]
Chelsea Mayer
That's so unfortunate that that happened. It sounds like you were out on a really bad day.
- [07:49]
Derek Fassbender
It was a little rough.
- [07:50]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's the funny thing. Like, when I first started working on boats, I mean, I wasn't getting seasick or anything, but got home. If I was in, like, an enclosed space, like a small room, I would get dizzy for like, six months. Yeah. Cause it's just like your body adjusting and then it just goes away eventually.
- [08:10]
Derek Fassbender
Okay, so I got to go in more whale watching tours is what you're saying.
- [08:13]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly.
- [08:14]
Derek Fassbender
Okay.
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Chelsea Mayer
I can't guarantee that you won't need that bag again, but at least my
- [08:19]
Derek Fassbender
room wasn't spinning when I got back. That's a good thing. Now, to get back on topic here. We learned about you through the organization Girls who Click. Can you tell us a little bit about the organization?
- [08:30]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, yeah. They're amazing. So Susie Esterhaus, who's a wildlife photographer, she founded this organization with the idea that, you know, there needs to be more support for women in conservation photography, nature photography, wildlife photography. So the idea is that they have ambassadors that they pick every year, and those ambassadors get paired with an industry professional who is their mentor for the year. And they meet once a month, and any guidance that they want on any project that they want to work on, they get that. They also have a network with each other. So, you know, they have, like, their discords and their WhatsApp. Groups and everything to kind of support one another. And there's monthly meetings as well, with, like, everyone involved, both the ambassadors and the partner photographers. They also do free workshops for teenage girls. So those are sometimes online, they're sometimes in person. But it's just a really nice way to introduce young women and girls who are interested in potentially becoming photographers.
- [09:28]
Derek Fassbender
And I gotta shout out organizations like this, you can never give them too much credit because it's so, so, so important to have organizations like this. I mean, going back to what you were saying about seeing the whale photographer on the boat, there's so many opportunities that people don't realize exist, that mentoring programs and organizations like girls who click open the doors to these opportunities and show people what it's like for young women to grow up and have a role model who might not be doing the cookie cutter photography job that you hear about. Growing up and being exposed to somebody's different lifestyle and the way that you're following your passion and doing something that you love and making a living doing is so important.
- [10:10]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly. Like, there are so many different paths to get a job in photography or adjacent to photography. And, you know, every single one of the partner photographers in this organization has a different story and a different thing that they specialize in and a different way that they got there. And so it's really, really cool and really inspiring to see all these different stories, and it kind of helps you find a way forward yourself.
- [10:34]
Derek Fassbender
Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about the process of. So you were an ambassador. You became a partner photographer and mentor. Can you talk about this process, what you learned from those before you and have passed down onto those who are now learning from you?
- [10:48]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, absolutely. So I was an ambassador in the first year that they actually had the program. So that was really interesting because it was just like, again, visibility. Somebody happened to send me a link to this on Instagram. I had never heard of them, and I was like, oh, that sounds cool. And so I applied for it, not really knowing what I was getting into. And I was very surprised, as with all good things that I got it. So it was like, wow, this is amazing. And my mentor, Brenda Tharp, is just this incredible woman who has all of this experience. And it was really interesting because it wasn't, like, a straightforward thing. And I think that kind of growth really isn't straightforward or easy. Like, she would be almost a little frustrated with me sometimes because I would say that I wanted to do something and then I wouldn't follow through. She was never mean about It. But it was like I had it in my head that, like, I was supposed to be doing, like, conservation stories. Like, I was supposed to be doing the specific kind of photojournalism. And, you know, the truth is that I don't seem to be somebody who is able to do that at this point in my life. I'm not that kind of photographer. And, you know, learning that about myself and being okay with it was really great. And, like, you know, just talking to her about that and figuring out a way forward. She also encouraged me to get my captain's license because I was like, I've taken this test, and I passed it, but I haven't sent in the paperwork yet. And she was like, you need to do that immediately. And so I was like, yep, okay, Brenda, you are totally right. I am sorry. I'll do it right now. And she was absolutely right, because having that qualification got me in the door with National Geographic Lindblad Expeditions, because with all of their vessels, they have smaller zodiacs that they need the naturalists to drive, and they need a captain's license to do that. So it was like this amazing ticket in the door there that I hadn't even thought of, because, again, that was another job that I didn't know existed.
- [12:43]
Derek Fassbender
Yeah, that's awesome. I think we all need a Brenda in our lives.
- [12:46]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, I love her. Hi, Brenda. If you're listening, I love you.
- [12:50]
Derek Fassbender
I hope Brenda's listening, because that really is. I mean. I mean, we joke about it, but it's like you don't know what you don't know. And especially as you're younger and you're trying to get your feet under you and to have somebody that's been there, they've seen it. They've seen why you need to go and get your license. They've seen why you need to, hey, don't sit on this. Get this done. That's how you get opportunities, and that's awesome to have somebody like that. And again, it's another just validation of programs like this now. So you get licensed. And was it really. I mean, it sounds like this is just like you're cutting through the water and smooth sailing. Was there any rough seas, any roadblocks that were in the way as you were on this process? Or was it really just hard work, mentorship, putting yourself in the right positions, introduced to the right people? Can you take us a little bit through that process?
- [13:40]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah. I mean, it's funny because, like, right before I actually found out that I was gonna be an ambassador for girls Who? Click. I was having one of those dark night of the soul moments where I was like, maybe I'm just not supposed to be a photographer. It was during COVID so I was out of. And I wasn't really sure. And I was like, maybe this can just be a hobby. And, like, I don't know, maybe I'll go back to school and, like, learn how to code or something. Like, I didn't even know what I wanted to try, but I was like, I guess this just isn't working. And then I got an email from them. These emails seem to find me when I'm really in trouble. And I was just like, oh, well, I guess we're not done yet. And I'm so glad I didn't give up because it got a lot better from there.
- [14:24]
Derek Fassbender
That's great. And was it around the same time that you became certified as a dive master?
- [14:29]
Chelsea Mayer
That was a little bit later. Okay. Yeah. So I had a little bit of time in between Lindblad and when I got my mentorship where I was working in a scuba diving shop. You know, it was retail. It wasn't my favorite thing in the world, but it allowed me to take this class and kind of be exposed to all these divers and everything. And so it was one of those situations where it's like, okay, I don't want to be here forever. This isn't my career. But it's something where I'm immersed in this industry and it's going to be helpful to me.
- [15:00]
Derek Fassbender
Interesting. It's like everything is approached from a perspective of positivity, which I love. And that speaks to your success so early in your career, where you're not letting things stand in your way. You're using it as kind of a stepping stool. If I'm not happy here, I'm going to use this to get to the next place in my life.
- [15:16]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly. It doesn't always feel that way in the moment, but looking back, it makes a lot more sense.
- [15:22]
Derek Fassbender
I mean, and as you've probably seen already, that's what professional photographers are, problem solvers. Things don't always work out. You have to kind of pivot and bob and weave and adjust as we go on the fly. Is that something that you can relate to in your current position?
- [15:39]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's funny because I love my job. I am away a lot of the time because of my job, so my ability to do gigs when I'm home is not really there anymore because I'm just not home that often. So missing out on that kind of work. And, you know, for a while I was filming, like, underwater stuff, or I would take photos of people underwater help businesses, you know, just generally underwater ocean adjacent things. And when I didn't have that anymore, when those things were starting to fall off because people were realizing I just wasn't home, it forced me to look at something that I'd been avoiding for a very long time. This is something that another mentor in Girls who Click told me about, Jennifer Warner. She has a lot of success with selling wildlife prints and limited edition fine art prints. And she met up with me and told me exactly how she does this, like, five years ago. And now in the last year or so, I've finally got around to making myself do this thing that sounded really complicated. I knew exactly the steps I needed to take, but it was just never quite the right time. And now I've finally started doing that and I've had so much positive feedback and success with it that it's like, why didn't I do this sooner? And I like it a lot. And so it's something that. That I didn't see coming for myself necessarily, but now it's my favorite thing.
- [17:01]
Derek Fassbender
Yeah, it's so easy to say after the fact. I mean, they always say hindsight's 20 20, and it's true. It's easy to say, well, why didn't I do this five years ago? And it's like, five years ago, you were in a completely different place. And maybe you weren't there, you know, mentally, maybe you weren't there. You didn't think you had what it took, or you didn't have something that you needed or thought you needed. But it's easier to look back and be like, oh, well, yeah, that worked out fine.
- [17:22]
Chelsea Mayer
Exactly. I try not to be too hard on myself about it because, you know, I got there eventually. And I think a lot of the progress that we make this positive progress as photographers, it's so slow sometimes, and you don't even see it happening. And then suddenly you find yourself in a place that you really like. And I guess that's just life.
- [17:41]
Derek Fassbender
Oh, my God. I can't state enough how true that. I mean, that's. I think most of us. Yeah, it's like for every story where you're like, all right, this person blew up overnight and now they're doing this. No, most of us, it's like, well, I've been doing this for 10, 15, 20 years. And, you know, it's little. Little minor bumps of success along the way, but you really have to grind it out. And I think that's part of what is so great about getting success after so many years pushing and fighting and clawing and scraping is because it feels earned. And it usually comes with a body of work and a body of experience. And this is one of those fields where experience speaks volumes.
- [18:21]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly. I've done so many different things, and it was, like, so weird when I saw the application for Lindblad National Geographic, because the qualifications they wanted were all very specifically these seemingly unrelated things that I've been working on and doing. And suddenly they were all there in one application. I couldn't believe.
- [18:39]
Derek Fassbender
That's amazing. You're like, wow, this is made for me.
- [18:41]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even know it was a job. This is another job that I didn't know was a job that I happened upon. And here we are.
- [18:48]
Derek Fassbender
Was there anything on there that you were like, ah, you know, this doesn't really sound like me. And even though a lot of stuff was in line with you, was there anything that you're like, oh, I have second thoughts on. I don't really sound qualified, or why would they pick me?
- [19:01]
Chelsea Mayer
No, totally. It was the public speaking part. I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this.
- [19:07]
Derek Fassbender
No, wait, wait, you. Yeah, no, for everyone listening. I logged on today, and I hear a voice, and I'm like, wait, that's gotta be Chelsea. And usually you're used to, like, you get on, and it's like, I got Mike and I got Jill, and they're already on, and the speaker's still figuring out mic issues or something. And I'm like, no. What? Chelsea was so ready to go. The voice sounded great. The mic is on. Everything's perfect. And then I find out that she just got back from Antarctica three days ago. I'm like, your thoughts are clear. You're lucid. Everything's like, your thoughts are so organized. So public speaking was never a thing for you?
- [19:44]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, that was like, a nightmare. Like, I was one of those kids in high school where if I did it, my voice would shake the whole time. Those presentations that you had to give, like, it was a nightmare. It was my worst fear. And so I was like, well, this job sounds pretty cool otherwise, so I guess we'll just see. And, like, you know, I just kind of stumbled through it the first couple times. It wasn't super great, but apparently I've improved.
- [20:09]
Derek Fassbender
I mean. Yeah. Was this Brenda, too? Is this Brenda's doing.
- [20:12]
Chelsea Mayer
It's all Brenda. No, it was one of those things where you just have to do it out of necessity. Right? It's like, okay, I like the other parts of this job, so I'm just gonna get through it. I'm gonna struggle. It's gonna be ugly for a while, but we're just gonna go.
- [20:25]
Derek Fassbender
Was there anything that you can call out to that was like. Like, were you practicing or was it kind of just as you got more comfortable with the job and the surroundings, it kind of just allows you to open up?
- [20:36]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, definitely, I was practicing. Even when I applied, they had me do like a three minute recap kind of thing where I talked about gray whales. And I was like, I don't know if I can talk about gray whales for three minutes. So I practice it, you know, just walking around, like over and over and over again. And it was like, okay, I can speak. I do have a human voice. I can do that. But then, you know, being on the ship, like my first, like, full length presentation, I was so nervous. I was so nervous. And then it went totally fine. Like, God bless them. I had a few of those people with very good listening faces in the front where they smile and they nod and it was just so encouraging that it kind of made me feel like, okay, I'm gonna be okay. And that feeling comes and goes, like, I'll still get nervous for things sometimes. I think most people do, but yeah, for the most part, that's something that I've gotten past. But I was petrified.
- [21:30]
Derek Fassbender
How long are the presentations that you give?
- [21:33]
Chelsea Mayer
So the longest presentation I give is probably the smartphone photography presentation. This is probably our most popular thing that we do because it's kind of this great equalizer. Right. It's something that everybody has. So usually there's a lot of questions, a lot of things to cover, so they can get quite long sometimes, you know, if I'm given a window and people have questions and I'm not told that I need to be done by a specific time, it can be over an hour if people are game for it.
- [22:01]
Derek Fassbender
Yeah, interesting. Now I want to transition to gear because again, this is a unique photo job. I can just imagine gear getting absolutely destroyed where you're going. So I want to know what gear you're using. If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for anybody.
- [22:18]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, that's a funny thing that you say because actually when I was working on whale watching boats, I had a Canon 5D Mark IV and I took it in to get repaired and when they gave it back to me, they said, this is the longest list of parts we've had to replace ever. Like it went onto a second page. So, yeah, saltwater and cameras are not friends. But I have found Canon to be pretty hearty about it. My primary topside camera now that I use is a Canon R5C. And then for underwater, because I have an Audacam housing for it and the housings are very specific to each camera I use. My less recent camera that I have, and that's a Sony A7R3.
- [23:00]
Derek Fassbender
Okay, so you gotta spread the wealth across the brands there a little bit. Is there a reason for one or the other? Do the systems play well together?
- [23:08]
Chelsea Mayer
Well, with Canon, I had always kind of liked the interface. I like the menus. It just speaks to me. I mean, I know that there's like a great rivalry between different camera brands, especially like Canon and Nikon, but I don't know, that's just what I happen to start with. And I've stuck with it because I enjoy it. It makes sense to me. It's just kind of the language that I speak. My mom was always like a great fan of Sony's. And so the A7R III is actually a hand me down from her. And I was like, this is great. You know, it does really well in low light and everything. And I find it to be very detailed. For underwater stuff, I don't really use strobes. So it's kind of having to do a lot of work. And I find that it does it really well.
- [23:53]
Derek Fassbender
I miss the old Canon Nikon Wars. The photography online was so simple back then. We argued over Canon or Nikon and nothing else. Now we don't argue over brands, but we argue about everything else.
- [24:04]
Chelsea Mayer
I still meet people who think there's a rivalry now and then. And that's fine. That's fine. I think most cameras these days are gonna be pretty evenly matched. It's just kind of what you prefer.
- [24:15]
Derek Fassbender
Totally. It's like, who's making a bad camera now?
- [24:18]
Chelsea Mayer
Nobody's doing that.
- [24:19]
Derek Fassbender
No. A lot of bad artists out there. A lot of bad. We all gotta get better, right? We gotta constantly learn. But no, the camera comfies. Are holding up their end of the board.
- [24:26]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly. Like, I just think that people get so kind of gatekeepy about it. And so I tend not to use that kind of language anymore, especially when I'm teaching because it is kind of historically something that's intimidating for people. Right. And so just kind of removing that barrier, like I'm not gonna disparage your camera, is a Nice thing.
- [24:46]
Derek Fassbender
I think I'm glad you brought it there because you have such a nice approach to teaching. And I say nice. I'm like, man, that's such a bad word. I couldn't come up with a better word. But it's so, like, disarming, and it's so, like, not pretentious when you're teaching, it's like, I've seen reels, and it's like you break technical stuff down where I'm like, you know what? If I didn't know anything about photography and I were trying to learn, I would be totally comfortable learning from you. Like, it doesn't come off techie. It doesn't come off as I know more than you. It's kind of just like, hey, we're all out here. We just want to take better pictures and get better. And I'm just trying to help you in the way that I know how. It's that approach where it's not preachy, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Can you talk a little bit about outside of your Marine certifications, outside of your filmmaking and your formal schooling, what's helped you be a successful creator?
- [25:40]
Chelsea Mayer
Ooh, that's a great question. I mean, you know, just having inspiration. I think that's a huge thing. Like, I really, really think it's important for me personally to be outside every day and to be seeing amazing things every day. Like, I love watching animals. It doesn't really matter what kind they are. I love paying attention to the weather and the light and just kind of seeing how the outdoors change from place to place, from season to season. I get so much peace and so much clarity from just being out in nature. I just go hiking, you know, I don't always do anything with the photos I take, but I'm always thinking about taking them or actually taking them.
- [26:22]
Derek Fassbender
Yeah, as long as you're doing it right. I think social media kind of forces us sometimes into this box of. You have to post it. We need to see everything exactly. Like, no, you can still take photos and video and work on projects and not show it. Keep it for you.
- [26:37]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly. It doesn't always have to be for the grid.
- [26:41]
Derek Fassbender
Yeah, definitely. Do you do a lot of personal projects, or are you so busy with what you're doing professionally?
- [26:46]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, man. Like, I've kind of gotten more focused in recent months, years where I am trying to think about more, like, why am I taking this photo? Because you can end up just being all over the place, just spinning in circles if you don't have. Have any sort of clarity on that. And when I finally focused on, like, I want to take photos that would look good on someone's wall, and it's this very simple thing, and it has given me so much more focus and happiness and, you know, getting more good images, because I've just kind of narrowed it down to this simple prompt for myself.
- [27:27]
Derek Fassbender
I like that. I think a lot of people can narrow that down and use that same prompt. That really resonates with me because a lot of times it's like when you do exhibits, when you want to sell your work, and then you sit there and you realize, I have a lot of work I love, but who would want to hang that? Yeah, it's great. Great question. You know, like, to really just boil it down to that. I never thought about it that way.
- [27:49]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah. And, you know, I can be so wrong about the answer to that, too. I've found. And, you know, in the last year, I've started to sell some of my stuff in person. And just listening to the way that people and what resonates with them, it makes it easier for me to even describe what I'm doing and describe myself. Like, I didn't know that I was this kind of photographer, but I just had 50 people in a row tell me. So, you know, it's very, very enlightening.
- [28:18]
Derek Fassbender
So, Chelsea, when it comes to your underwater work, does your focus on making
- [28:22]
Chelsea Mayer
pictures to hang on the wall affect
- [28:24]
Derek Fassbender
your process any differently than the pictures you make in other outdoor settings?
- [28:29]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, yeah. I mean, it definitely has helped me focus with my underwater work to think of it as something that goes on a wall, because it's really hard to convey what it's like to be underwater to somebody who doesn't have that access necessarily, and just kind of showing people the landscapes and the animals. I work a lot in kelp forest specifically, and, you know, it's really nice because I had a showing at Catalina a little bit ago, and I had this photo of Agaribaldi in kelp, and there were a lot of people who even been in the water yet that day, and they're like, is that the fish we're seeing? Because they're, like, bright orange, and you can kind of see them under the water just as you're walking around from topside. But it was really nice to be like, oh, I'm giving people a window into this, because it's not necessarily something that everyone will get to see. And it's kind of interesting, too, for people who are divers, like, they're Always thinking about being underwater. I'm certainly always thinking about being underwater. So you just get this kind of. Of nostalgia fix, I guess, where it's like, oh, yeah, that's what I miss. There it is. Yeah.
- [29:40]
Derek Fassbender
I think it's just the mystery of the unknown. It's kind of like space. It's like space and being underwater. These just two intriguing worlds, they're not native to humans, so we wonder about them. And is there a little bit of childhood wonderment that still lives inside you as you photograph in this, this environment?
- [29:58]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, absolutely. Because, like, I can remember when I was in middle school, they had like a scuba instructor come to our school and he was going to teach anybody who wanted to learn how to scuba dive. And I was like, too scared to do it. And I regretted it always. And so finally when I was like 30, I was like, okay, let's go do this. And so, you know, that's only been about the last five years that I've been diving. And it's still so exciting every time. Like it's a nature walk, but underwater, like, it's quiet. You're by yourself, aside from your dive buddy, of course. But hopefully there's somebody you enjoy spending time with. Yeah, it's just kind of like this wonderful meander where you just go down and you see what you can see. And it's always different. It's always so special.
- [30:45]
Derek Fassbender
What's the craziest thing you've seen? Or maybe the most mind blowing, other than Antarctica? Because you said that was pretty mind blowing.
- [30:51]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, that's pretty mind blowing.
- [30:52]
Derek Fassbender
But underwater, is there something underwater that you were just completely blown away?
- [30:56]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, that's a good question. I mean, just in general, I think the majesty of the kelp forest is something that's really, really hard to top. But as far as, like, funny things that happen to me, like, do you know what a mola mola is?
- [31:11]
Derek Fassbender
No.
- [31:11]
Chelsea Mayer
So it's like a sunfish. It's like this kind of flat fish. They're really odd looking. Like if you saw that video, like from a few years ago, that was like, it's a baby whale. Jay, have you seen that video?
- [31:22]
Derek Fassbender
No, I gotta be online. All right, I just looked one up. Oh, my God, they're huge.
- [31:26]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, yeah, really big.
- [31:28]
Derek Fassbender
Whoa.
- [31:29]
Chelsea Mayer
And they're really funny looking. And they don't look real. Look up a picture of a mola mola. Hopefully some people know what I'm talking about.
- [31:36]
Derek Fassbender
Wild. Oh, my God, they're huge.
- [31:38]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah. And, you know, a lot of people say that they're ugly. I think they're very cute. They're very charming. But one day I was on a dive with one of my friends and we were just swimming back. It's like this kind of gradual, like, sand slope that you have to swim up. And it takes like 20 minutes to swim up. And there's not a ton of stuff to see. But then we look over our shoulder and one of these mola molas is following us. And it's not like a giant one. It's like the size of a dinner plate maybe. So we stop and it just kind of circles around us. And we're like, wow, this is amazing. Like, what is this little guy doing? And then he swims off and we keep going and he kept following us. And so he would just do this over and over again for like half an hour. I mean, finally we were just like, I'm sorry, we gotta go. Like, we're out of air. But it was like the weirdest thing to have this little guy just show up from the blue and just be so interested in what we were doing. I wondered if he had ever seen a scuba diver, if he was just totally intrigued. But it's not something that usually happens, and it was very magical.
- [32:45]
Derek Fassbender
Interesting. That sounds magical. Now, I want to talk about you as breaking through walls. I mean, a couple times during this conversation already, it's just been. You don't shy away from things. If there's something that you're even apprehensive or scared about, it's like you charge through and you don't let things get in the way. Your field, a male dominated field?
- [33:05]
Chelsea Mayer
Yes.
- [33:06]
Derek Fassbender
Was that something that. Is it changing or how did you approach going into that? Was there any kind of apprehension to break through in that field? Was there anything where you had to kind of will yourself every day to get up there and go out there in a male dominated field and assert yourself as a female?
- [33:22]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think it is getting better. Like, I was very pleasantly surprised to see that in my current work, it's really about 50, 50, like the naturalists and the deckhands even, you know, you don't meet that many female captains of large vessels still. But I think there are more. There are more officers now than there were before. So that's very nice. But yeah, I mean, again, this is another weird thing about me that I've just been kind of set up for it. I played ice hockey growing up on boys teams.
- [33:54]
Derek Fassbender
Awesome.
- [33:55]
Chelsea Mayer
You know, I wasn't doing like competitive hockey or whatever, but it was just something that I had and that, you know, I was kind of used to. So it wasn't really ever a thought that I had. Like, it didn't occur to me. I mean, it was difficult. Like, certainly when I was working on whale watching boats, I was the only woman deckhand when I started, and by the time I left, there were plenty. And I think in the last few years, they've even got to the point where most of the boats have female captains. So it's just one of those things where I think it is changing quickly and I'm very, very happy about that. But, yeah, it's not super tough these days for the most part. That's not to say that people don't face challenges. I'm sure I'm downplaying the challenges that I've faced, trying to just remember the good stuff.
- [34:44]
Derek Fassbender
Yeah, totally. And I think it's people like you and people who have been in your orbit and in your power path that you've gone along already in your career that are helping lay the groundwork. And with every Chelsea that comes along, with every Brenda that comes along, you're laying the groundwork for another Chelsea, another Brenda. And as we go along with time, it gets easier and easier and it becomes less of a conversation and more just the norm.
- [35:08]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, exactly. Every now and then, somebody will say something to me, just if I happen to be out with my camera, that's like, oh, I don't feel like you would have said that to a man. And it does happen now and then, but I think, think I've found myself in a very healthy environment with people who are very progressive and that helps. That's everything.
- [35:28]
Derek Fassbender
That's awesome. It's awesome. It's awesome to see it as an industry too, that it's not just, oh, hey, I mean, I just happen to be working in a good place. But to see it start to spread out industry wide and albeit slowly. Of course, yes, we still do have not just isolated circumstances, but there are. It's still, you know, it still exists out there. But to see it with every day going forward getting better, and it's people like you, programs like girls who click that help make this better. One creative and one day at a time.
- [35:58]
Chelsea Mayer
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
- [36:00]
Derek Fassbender
Now, where do you see yourself going from here five years down the line? I mean, you've had quite a career already. Do you have any aspirations or anything that specifically you want to do?
- [36:10]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah. Oh, I have too many things I want to do.
- [36:13]
Derek Fassbender
I love it. I love it. A Loaded answer.
- [36:15]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah, yeah, I. I mean, like, I would love to start pursuing more seriously, like doing the fine art thing, having my stuff in more galleries, things like that. I also want my own boat at some point. I think that would be really great, just to be able to go out and do my thing whenever I want. Everyone warns me that it's a bad idea and they're very expensive, so, you
- [36:35]
Derek Fassbender
know, sometimes bust out another thousand.
- [36:38]
Chelsea Mayer
Exactly, exactly. And, yeah, just go into more new places, exotic places, like seeing new things, seeing new animals. That's always exciting for me. Seeing new environments. So, you know, I mentioned that I was in Antarctica just now. I would love to do photography instruction down there. I think that would be amazing. Like, it was such an inspiring place and such an amazing place for wildlife.
- [37:02]
Derek Fassbender
So, yeah, now that you've been there, does every other place just pale in comparison? It's like, how do you come up with a bucket list for places to go after going there?
- [37:11]
Chelsea Mayer
I know. It kind of caught me off guard when. When I got back, I was like, well, what do I do now? The world is so big, though. The world is so big. There's always new places.
- [37:20]
Derek Fassbender
Check out New Jersey. Now, if you could give one piece of advice. You sound like you've had great people lay the foundation before you. If you had to lay the foundation for those coming behind you, what piece of advice would you give them?
- [37:33]
Chelsea Mayer
Ooh, yeah, That's a good question. I have had amazing mentors and amazing guidance, and, you know, everybody that I have talked to has just kind of encouraged me to not give up. So I'll say the same thing. You know, it really has helped me to have just kind of as many certifications as possible, to kind of branch out in as many directions as possible, to be so undeniably qualified that, like, somebody somewhere is going to be interested in what you were doing. And then just in terms of, like, my specific field of, you know, wanting to do wildlife photography, nature photography, like getting a job where it's not even necessarily that your job is to take photos, but just a job that has you outdoors and gives you that access. You know, just bring your camera and you'll have that access every single day instead of sitting in an office. Like, it doesn't have to be the highest paying job in the world, and often they aren't, but, you know, just something that's going to get you out there and, you know, creating content and exploring and expanding your craft, I think is very important.
- [38:35]
Derek Fassbender
Chelsea, this was a great conversation. Want to know what do you have in the works. I was going to ask if you have any upcoming trips. Of course you do. Let's rephrase that. Where are you going to next and any projects you're working on?
- [38:48]
Chelsea Mayer
Yeah. So in two days, I'm leaving on Thanksgiving. I am going from Los Angeles all the way down the Baja California peninsula, up into the Gulf of California and ending in Loretto. So it's a fun little trip with Lindblad, National Geographic, and we're going to see a lot of kind of remote places and hopefully a lot of whales and dolphins. I'm very excited for it. And then as far as my projects go, I am about to undertake going through the 17,000 photos that I took in Antarctica and hopefully come up with some kind of print collection from that.
- [39:26]
Derek Fassbender
And where can we keep up with your daily travels and all your photography happenings?
- [39:31]
Chelsea Mayer
The most that I update is on Instagram. My Instagram is Chelsea Mayor Photography and my website is chelseymayerphotography.com I love it.
- [39:42]
Derek Fassbender
Easy. Well, I can't wait for you to get through the 17,000 images so we can see some of those pop up on the gram and online. But Chelsea, this is such a great conversation. You are super inspiring and I really do look forward to see what you're doing in the future.
- [39:56]
Chelsea Mayer
Awesome. Thank you so much, Derek. Thanks for having me. This has been a blast.
- [39:59]
Derek Fassbender
Awesome. Thank you. And thank you to all of our fans out there listening. If you are a fan of the show but you're not yet a subscriber subscriber, head on over to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, B&H's YouTube channel, or wherever you get your podcasts and click subscribe. You can also find us on the Explora blog where we post photos from our guests along with our show notes. And please join us on Facebook at the B H Photography Podcast Group where you can share your favorite photos and comment about the show. I'm your host, Derek Fosbender. Jill Waterman is our creative producer. Episodes are recorded, mixed and edited by technical producer Mike Weinstein, and our executive producer is Richard Stevens. On behalf of us all, thank you so much for tuning in today.