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- [00:02]
A
You're listening to the B and H photography podcast. For 50 years, B& H has been the professional source for photography, video, audio and more. For your favorite gear, news and reviews, Visit us at b&h.com or download the BH app to your iPhone or Android device. Now here's your host, Derek Fassbender.
- [00:21]
B
Welcome listeners. I'm Derek Fassbender, host of the B and H Photography Podcast. Sports photography hinges on freezing peak action, transforming a high speed blur into a dramatic portrayal of human effort. When you combine that with the unyielding drive of elite athletes on literally the world stage, the pressure to nail the shot provides an incredible adrenaline rush. In today's podcast, we discuss the unique challenge of documenting history and unfolding stories from the Winter Games with renowned sports photographer Gene Froth. Just back from her first Olympics, known primarily for her legendary baseball coverage, Jean recently expanded her work into women's ice hockey, a project that led to an invitation to photograph the 2026 Games. We'll introduce Gene in a second, but before we do, here's a quick career snapshot. Jean Fruth does more than take pictures of sports. She tells stories of vibrant personalities and local cultures. As a Sony artisan of imagery, Gene has covered nearly every sport, though baseball remains her specialty. After helping to build the archive of the National Baseball hall of Fame and Museum, she co founded the grassroots baseball nonprofit in 2019 to celebrate the amateur game worldwide. Jean is also a filmmaker and the author of three books. Her latest project, See Her Be her, includes a documentary film, a book, and a nonprofit aimed at shining an overdue spotlight on women's athletes, one or unsung sheroes, as she calls them. Jean's work is regularly featured in prestige media and has been exhibited in major institutions, from the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Museum to the Smithsonian to the Baseball hall of Fame. Most recently, she was honored with the 2025 United Nations International Photographic Council Achievement Award. Jean Fruth, welcome to the show and welcome back from Milan Cortina.
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C
Why, thank you. I'm so excited. I get to do a B and H podcast. This has been on my list.
- [02:16]
B
Well, now you go. You could check that off the list. There's another, probably more prestigious first that you just had, and that is coming back from those games. You've known for your baseball coverage, but it was hockey that brought you over to Italy. So I want to get some backstory here. Even before the Olympic Games, when did hockey come onto your radar?
- [02:36]
C
When I finished my project, See Her Be Her Women in Baseball. It was very Obvious to me that we wanted to continue the journey of women's sports. It's such an exciting place to be, and there's just so much more to be done. Giving visibility to these women matters and creating opportunities for them. So being part of that movement, being even a small part of that movement to help women's sports grow, continue to grow is certainly a space that I want to stay in. So it was. Where do we go from here? We watch baseball now, launching in their first professional league since the 1950s. 40s. So there was a professional, professional league before then, but there's been a big gap. But now looking at the arena of women's sports and women's hockey, and as exciting as women's hockey is, and the arenas are certainly not empty, they're filling arenas. There's still so many people, most people who don't even know that women play professional hockey, that not only are they playing professional hockey here in the US but they're playing hockey all around the world. So telling those stories and starting this project, and it really doesn't matter that it's hockey, it just happens to be hockey. It's just promoting women's sports and helping these women gain the visibility that they deserve with the hopes of more opportunities.
- [03:58]
B
I'm glad to get some background on that, because I was like, is it more the aspect of women in hockey, or does the sport at large, like, I know hockey's been gaining more popularity now. It was kind of one of those sports that always, out of all the professional sports, it was on the outskirts, but it's been getting more popularity. Or I'm like, was it the excitement? Like, it's. I mean, you want to photograph something exciting. Right. If you're a baseball player, it's a boring sport. But hockey's exciting to watch, it's exciting to play. Did that have anything to do with it, like, thinking about what sport you were going to shine a light on next?
- [04:30]
C
Yep. I mean, people look at baseball as boring, you know, and it's really, as you know, because you know the game, when you know the game, then it's no longer boring. So from an outside point of view, but shooting baseball. I mean, Neil Leifer says that baseball is one of the hardest sports to shoot because not much happens. And certainly, you know, if there's one play at the plate and you miss it, that's not going to happen. So you can't miss it. And it does move slow. But to me, baseball has a pacing where you can find other moments to make pictures. So that's just the experience of shooting baseball. So I love shooting baseball, and I'm not replacing baseball with hockey, but instead just adding to it. But hockey has always been fascinating to me because to me, hockey is tribal. The people who know hockey, they love it, but it's this tribal little crazy group that they live it, they breathe it, they drink it. I mean, it's so in. One of those people was my dad, and he was a crazy New York Ranger fan for his entire life. And we went to games in the garden, sat in the cheap seats, and they chanted 1940. Until finally they broke that curse. But that's what I grew up with and watching hockey on tv. So knowing that women play hockey and the cool connection also is Billie Jean King. So Billie Jean King was the executive producer for our baseball project and wrote a wonderful chapter in the book, see Her, Be Her. And Billie Jean King is also involved with the pwhl, the professional women's hockey league. And she is involved in it, believe, part ownership. And so her and her wife Alana are very connected and very involved with the league. So it was very nice to move over to that. And then I did see her at the Olympics, which was pretty awesome. And she was there cheering the women on and also doing a lot of promotion for them. And she's, I mean, of course, you know, the most famous tennis player and, you know, in history, women's tennis player. But more than that is just her advocacy for women's sports and equality. So I want to jump on that bandwagon and do my little part, you know, along with Billie Jean King.
- [06:43]
B
I didn't realize there was that connection there as far as the. And I also didn't realize that you had already been exposed to hockey. I kind of thought it was just like, you know what? I'm going to try something new here. But growing up with it, you've obviously been exposed. So I guess the pacing wasn't. You're used to it. But going from baseball to hockey, that's a change.
- [07:01]
C
Well, it's interesting, right, because I made the same mistake that I made when I first shot football. So when I started working for local newspapers and my first assignment was shooting a high school football game, and I went, oh, I watch football all the time. Like, I know football. And I went to the football field and I had the worst shoot of my life. And what I thought I knew about football, I did not know. And I was awful. So then I had to learn how to shoot football. And the same goes for hockey. What you Think, you know, and following the game. Yes. Like, following the puck is fast. Shooting hockey is certainly completely different than shooting baseball. So I went in and went, okay, I could do this. But I did have a plan and the experience of shooting so many other sports. So I was excited for this challenge and certainly had more of a plan than I did when I was going to that high school football game.
- [07:53]
B
Much different stage. How long have you been shooting hockey before the Olympics. How much prep time?
- [07:59]
C
Oh, not a lot of prep time. So I started the project, started researching the project last year, early in the year, and then did some media days with the professional hockey league, the pwhl, and got to meet some of the players and connect to some of the teams and worked out well. We talked about this project that we're going to be doing together, and they're just wonderful to work with, and they're just at a stage. It was only two years in that this league has been. So everything's new. And anybody who's gonna join in and help create visibility, they're in for it as well. And they're doing just such a tremendous job. If you go to a game, you'd never know. This league was only 2 1/2 years old now, but at the time, less than two years when I met with them. So connecting with them and then starting to shoot their games. And they had two expansion teams. So my first game was shooting on November 21st in Vancouver, and it was a historical night, and they sold out the arena, and it was an amazing. And that was my first professional hockey game.
- [09:06]
B
Wow. And here you are back from the Olympics. Now, what was it like getting credentialed for this? Were you. Now, I know you went with the women's national team, right? But was it set up? Was everything set up through them, or was it all independent? Did you have to handle all that by yourself?
- [09:20]
C
Everything was just kind of rolling along. Okay, we're doing this project on girls and women in hockey. Okay. We're going to start with professional hockey. That's great. Let's do that. And media days and meeting some of the players and where are the arenas and shooting? Okay, we got to shoot game action. What do we need if we're going to create a project including a book as part of the project for creating visibility. So what needs to be there? So looking at college hockey, looking at girls, youth hockey, and now. Oh, well, the Olympics is happening in Italy. Well, you can't leave that out for a project on women's hockey. I mean, there's going to be all these countries there. And it's an international story. Right. It's not a story of the usa. Well, I can skip the. And try to go to all these countries, but if they're all coming to Italy and they have great pizza, why wouldn't I want to go there? So makes sense. So, okay, how do I get to the Olympics? Well, the pwhl, they're getting credentialed. Billie Jean King is going to be there for the pwhl. Their executives are going to be there. They have a fabulous podcast as well, called Jocks in Jills, which is a great name. So the women who run that podcast were there, and they were doing podcasts on the fly and interviewing. And they're just fabulous group. And they have a team photographer, a league photographer, a team photographer who's also kind of their league photographer, and Heather, and she was going. So they had a second credential, and it was, okay, I'm going to shoot for the pwhl. But we also had this connection with USA Hockey and also Canada, so it was what makes the most sense for credentialing. And then PWHL had a second photographer, videographer who they wanted to bring, who was also going to be shooting their podcast. So it was trying to figure out these credentials and where everybody can fit. I ended up shooting for USA Hockey. We had a nice partnership with USA Hockey and pwhl, where we were both kind of shooting for both. So Heather was shooting for both. I was shooting for both, but Heather was shooting on the Canada side. She's Canadian, so she was shooting on the Canadian side. I was shooting for the USA side, but we were both also contributing to the PWHL. So my actual credential was USA Hockey.
- [11:34]
B
Knowing how everything, like, hindsight's 20 20, and knowing how everything played out, which we'll get to later. But it's funny here. This. It's almost like the script was already written before. Spoiler alert. But, like, from the start, usa, Canada, this combination, it's like this was destined to happen.
- [11:55]
C
It really was. I mean, it was. And I have to break it down with Heather. She's a fantastic photographer, and she's the most positive person on the planet. She's great to work with somebody like that. And she's been shooting hockey for a long time, and she just loves the game, you know, just inside and out. So being around her was just great energy. And, of course, learning. I've shot with her before, but this was a really fun experience. And, of course, we were dividing and Conquering. But literally it was a divide and conquer at the end, coming down to Canada and the usa. So yeah, that became very interesting.
- [12:28]
B
That's awesome. Was she the. I mean, it's nice to go. It's like you're going to a new country and you find out that like your longtime friend or a longtime acquaintance is gonna be going there too. And you're kinda like, okay, good. That takes some of the nerves off. Was she your source of comfort? Inspiration? Somebody who's kind of been there before, someone that you know who's been doing it a long time. Did you lean on her?
- [12:50]
C
I certainly did. I mean, when I heard that she was going because I knew they were going to be sending someone and when they said Heather, it was like, ah, great. Because it's also a personality type where someone's going to be collaborative and be friendly with you and. Yeah. And help you. And it's her first Olympics too, so, you know, she was just as jittery as me and she was getting there. A few days before I unfortunately had a talk that I was not, unfortunately was very fortunate. I'm glad I had it in Oregon at this theater, the Hull Theater. So I had this talk that I had to do and that I committed to before I knew I was going to be shooting the Olympics. So I literally had to do this talk and then fly at five o' clock in the morning, fly back to San Francisco, then fly from San Francisco to Newark and then Newark to Milan and then get my credential and then go to my first hockey game that day that I landed. Great.
- [13:42]
B
The same day you landed.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And got credential.
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C
And it was so. That's so not me. You know, you've talked to me many times and like, oh, what's the secret to success? Planning, planning, planning. Getting there early. This isn't Gene, Heather. Yeah, no, this is not Gene. And it really caused. And it makes me say, always get there early, always. And if I had any opportunity to get there a day or two before, like Heather did, at least get a little over the jet lag, find out where we're going. I mean, there was so much logistics to handle. So the idea that I was going to land, please be on time, find out where to get my credential, drop my stuff off, put my gear together, get over to some arena, introduce myself, figure out what I have to get and trade in this for an armband, all these things that have to be done, and then shoot a game like, and it was like there was going to be no warmups. Like, I was literally going to be getting there and the game was going to be going on, which is exactly what happened.
- [14:35]
B
One, it's like having talked to you before about other big events like the World Series, it's like, again, Jean plans. Jean knows where she's gonna be for certain shots. She has her set up. You're getting there. You hit the ground running. Where did you go? I mean, gotta throw it out there. You go to the media center, you get your. Was that like the press center? Was that an easy process? Or was that.
- [14:58]
C
So there was a place to pick up your credential at the airport. And I thought, at the Milan airport, like, how is that going to be? So I was very nervous about all of it because I didn't have the time. If I had the. That takes away all the nerves. So any advice you give is always give yourself the time. But I didn't. There was nothing I could do about it. And the talk in Oregon was great. Very happy. I did it. Great people, but it worked out really well. I didn't know, okay, what terminal am I landing in? How do we know? Why would that terminal be the same terminal? I'm going to get the credential, and I'm probably going to have to go completely somewhere else. And it absolutely wasn't the case. Landed, went through. They had a special line for going through customs for Olympic credentials. So I. This packet that was mailed to me. I showed the packet, and the packet was magic. They saw it. Yes. Go this way. And then they had stickers on the floor, and we had to follow the arrows and the Olympic stickers all the way to the credential. It was really wonderful. And it was no problem. And they found me and they gave it to me. And then off I went and dropped off my stuff, put my batteries in my cameras and said, okay, now I've got to go find this arena. And the hockey was going on in two different arenas. And there was two games that day to shoot, so I was gonna arrive for the first one and then the second one. And of course, I didn't sleep on the plane, so you could just imagine the nerves, you know, especially with lack of sleep. But off I went to the first
- [16:28]
B
arena, so hit the ground running. You get there. Is it kind of just. You're in go mode at that time. You just. Instincts kick in. You've been to big games before.
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C
Yeah. I don't even think maybe instincts didn't kick in just yet.
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B
Really?
- [16:43]
C
Yeah. Be honest.
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B
Adrenaline or no.
- [16:45]
C
Yeah. Well, Just nerves. So I suppose adrenaline. And then it was, you know, okay, where, like, there's people, there's already fans there, you know, I don't want to be there when fans are there. I want to be there when it's quiet, you know, so everything is not me. And I had so much gear with me because I was also thinking perhaps I was going to set up remotes, which I ended up not doing. And that worked in my favor for that particular moment, for sure. And so I found this media center, but you have to go through, like, five different doors. And I got dropped off at the wrong place, walked away. You know, of course there's a language barrier. And just trying to find the arena and then finding the media center, which was completely on the other side of where the field of play was. So it was going through this door to this door to this door, passing all. And it was not obvious. None of it was obvious. And, like, just getting there. And then I walk in and there's all of these photographers, like, already set up. They've got their laptops. Everybody looks organized but me, just like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm so late to the party. So those nerves really just got to me. And then I had to get an armband in order to be on the field of play. So there's a special armband you have to wear. So I get the armband and then run out with the gear. And I start like, oh. And there's no holes in the plexi, which I did find out before then. So it was okay, now I'm gonna shoot through plexi. And I've done that, and I know the challenges of that. But with everything else, it was like, okay, let me brace myself. So I started to shoot through the plexi. I'm trying to find a. Everybody's already in their positions. They're shooting the game. The first game was usa, so it was an important game. Obviously, for me, it was usa Check. So it's already happening. Okay. What period are we in? How much time did I lose? Not much. I mean, it was just the beginning of the game.
- [18:37]
B
So you got the game. You weren't even there for the start of the game.
- [18:39]
C
I wasn't there for the start of the game. Yeah, yeah. So it was. But there was no score. Yeah. Nobody scored.
- [18:46]
B
But in your head, it's like, especially as someone who, when we're already behind, you kind of feel like, ah, yeah.
- [18:52]
C
So really, it was like, okay, I gotta recover from this. You have to get it together. Like, get an Olympic form, like, immediately. So I thought, okay, why don't you just give yourself a break and go shoot from the up position and take a breath. So then I went back to the media center. I grabbed a 300, went up top, found a great spot, a location, and then I just. And, you know, shooting from an up gives you a chance to breathe. And then it was, okay, here they are. I have free access. I'm shooting over the plexi instead of through it. Breathe. Get to this arena. See what's happening here. See how the play is going. And I made pictures, both nets. The 300 was so perfect. I had a 300 and a 400, but I brought the 300 up and thought it should be fine. And it was. The 300 was the ticket. I used the 400 during the Olympics, but just not at that moment. And so went back and forth, both nets. It was like, okay. Really just calmed me down. I made a few pictures that I was happy with. The game ended. And then, I mean, good and bad. The next game was gonna be hours later at 9pm can you imagine this day?
- [20:07]
B
Wow. You gotta keep the adrenaline going. You can't math.
- [20:10]
C
And I thought, okay, at least I have, like, time to edit these pictures or whatever. But I'm gonna have a lot of hours here at the media center before game two. And it was Finland versus Canada. And then people are leaving, and I'm thinking, oh, maybe they go somewhere and they take a break. Well, then I find out. Out from a very nice woman who was sitting at the desk at the media center. I was asking her what time they're gonna warm up. She goes, oh, you didn't hear? The Finland game is canceled. And I was like, oh, no. I did not hear. I just got here, just flew in. So, no. And they had norovirus. So, yeah. Oh, my gosh, that's horrible. But somehow they got over it fast. I don't know if Finland started playing. I'm not sure what happened, but a bunch of players were out. Maybe they had backups or replacements. So that game was canceled. And bad situation, of course, but also a chance to breathe. So I edited my photos, found my way back to my hotel, got some sleep, and then I was so ready for day two. And it was three games. But just that one game of shooting the overhead got my jitters out. It was like, okay, the next day is going to be so much easier. Which it certainly was. Had my armband, knew where to go, knew what to do, knew what gear I wanted to bring, bring what gear I could leave back. And that's the long story of day one of my Olympic experience stressing me out.
- [21:29]
B
I'm over here. Like, I'm on the. I'm, like, picking my nails on the edge of my seat. Because especially, like, I'm the same way. I like to. I like to at least know, like, I want to know the lay of the land. I want to take a walk around and know, like, what are my angles? What are my spots? Where's everybody else at? And to just kind of be thrown in the middle of the game. That there I would have been. I would have been spiraling out, and you didn't even have time to really take in, like, hey, I'm photographing the Olympics.
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C
Exactly.
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B
Like, it's a big deal. Did it hit when you got back to your hotel, or did it hit the next day when you showed up?
- [21:56]
C
The next day when I showed up, I had sleep. I had charged batteries. I had. Literally and figuratively. And then I got to the media center, and I got to see some folks that I certainly admire. You know, part of, like, you're shooting a new sport is following those who you admire, right? And looking at their work, and how can I make that picture? How can I make it my way? And who shoots hockey? And, you know, there's Bruce Bennet, who's, like, the hockey God, and lives at Madison Square Garden in all of the New York area, and he's been shooting hockey a long time. And so the next day, I saw him there, and he had almost, like, his office set up there, as he should. And I saw Elsa there. And, of course, Elsa is so important to me because she's one of the first women sports shooters, really, and so admired by so many women and the kindest person on the planet. And a really cool thing happened. And it's interesting because you think it's just you, right? Like, you're the only one late. You're the only one who things happen to. And I walk over to her, and she was completely flustered. She had just dropped batteries in between the panel of the arena, like, of the rink. And it went into this hole that she couldn't get out. And she had to get, like, people removing the panels in order to get her batteries out. And she's like, I'm sorry, but all my charged batteries are now, like, stuck in this hole. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, yeah, this happens to everybody, even else, right? So, you know, and, you know, it's a human moment, and, you know, we laughed about it, because then I got to see her later and give her a hug, and she showed me where the batteries went in and we laughed and I mean. And there she was shooting, you know, so many Olympics before. And yeah, it's pretty cool to see, you know, other photo. I talked to photographers before, of course, getting advice for the Olympics, because I am a planner and a preparer. Even though I showed up that day like a rocket, a flustered one, that's not me. But seeing those photographers there and then so many others, you know, you're seeing photographers that have been around for a long time, not only who shoot hockey, but shoot, you know, many Olympic sports over many years. And that's a pretty cool environment.
- [24:11]
B
Yeah, totally. And what's the creative approach? I mean, you talk about these other iconic photographers. Is there. And you being fairly new to hockey, especially in comparison to some of these other photographers and new to the Olympics. There's a standard set. There's something that, you know, we expect to see from Olympic photos. Are you going into it trying to put your own spin, or are you just trying to get the shot? Is there any creative foresight where you're like, you know what? I want to try to do this. And I want to try to do this because I'm thinking it's limited opportunity. This isn't something where you can go out, hey, I'll get it next time. You got to nail what you got to nail. You don't know when the big moment is going to be and when it's going to pass you by. How much is. Is it risk, reward versus I'm just gonna kind of stay status quo and get the typical shots that I've always been taking.
- [25:03]
C
I think you wanna go big. I think you wanna go risk, reward. I mean, for me, that's how I view it. And there's moments you can pick that. Is it really a risk? Maybe just a risk in your mind, what do you wanna make of this? And everybody's Olympics is different. And really, that's when you can apply other big events. For me, the World Series. So what is your World Series? What does your Olympics look like? And that is, what is your assignment and who are you and what are you trying? I mean, I looked at a lot of social media and talked to a lot of photographers, and for some photographers, they said, the cool thing for me with the Olympics is being able to shoot all different events that I normally don't get to shoot. So I'm here and I get to do all these different things that I Normally. And that's cool for that photographer. And they're experimenting, and they're like, okay, I've never shot curling before. So they're shooting curling. You know, what does that look like? But for me, my Olympics was an intense women's hockey Olympics. It was. I have a chance to make something special, something different. I have two and three games per day. I'm here for almost three weeks. I have a chance to make all kinds of pictures. So I'm not going to play it safe. To play it safe and make the same picture over and over again. Yes. Game action is exciting and thrilling. Sure. But. But, I mean, here I have an arena with. I can have all different positions. I'm shooting for USA Hockey. It gives me the opportunity to shoot through the plexi, to move around to shoot. I mean, one interesting thing is, of course, when I was shooting the professional hockey through the season, I get to shoot. I get a hole and shoot through the glass, and that's certainly easier and wonderful, but it also limits you because you're shooting through a hole. Right. So thus the limitation. Now, now, okay, the plexi is adding certainly a new dimension to making it difficult or challenging, but it also is freedom because I'm picking really any spot that I want. Maybe not Bruce Bennett's spot. He had his spot, so I don't get his spot.
- [27:06]
B
His spot's locked down.
- [27:07]
C
I could sit right next to him, but I want to see where Bruce Bennett's sitting. And I wonder why he's sitting there. And don't think because he's sitting there. That's the best spot. That's the best spot for Bruce Bennett. What's the best spot for Gene? Truth. It's almost like photographers. We all gather around and we're all shooting the same things. One person sees you shooting it, and then everybody else starts shooting it, and you don't even know why you're shooting it. But we're like pack animals. So you got to think about what is it that you want to shoot and why are you shooting it. So for me, it's a personal project, and it's a project. I'm not reporting the news. So I don't have to necessarily get the winning goal of check winning, or I don't have to get every goal that Japan. Japan. I'm not shooting for Japan. I'm not shooting for the Japanese newspaper. If I was shooting for the Japanese newspaper, I better get every goal and every save, because that's my job. But my job was to tell stories. So getting A flavor and being able to tell myself that and experiment was important to me for this project. So there's lots of opportunities.
- [28:08]
B
Yeah. I mean, are you finding them as you go? I know, again, preparation for you. The story is very important to your work. Was there a story that developed while you were there or were you looking for anything to kind of pull itself out of the normal Olympic fray?
- [28:26]
C
Certainly the international story looking at my project was this is the chance where I can show a little bit of international flavor to women's hockey. Does it need to be an entire book? No, but it needs to be some pictures that shows Sweden, that shows Japan, that shows that there's other countries playing at the highest. So that's part of my story. And then watching things unfold, certainly there's 61 women who are playing on the PWHL who are playing professional women's hockey in the United States that are on Olympic teams. Yes, most of them are playing for Canada and for the usa, but there was women playing for Czech, for Sweden, Swiss, you know, other. Other countries. So. And there was coaches that were coaching the pwhl, but they were also. They were coaching for other countries. So there's the interesting story. So knowing those stories before you get there and then being prepared and watching for what's unfolding. A very cool story was Laila Edwards, and she's the first black woman ever to play on the USA Olympics women's team. And she's 22 years old and she's still in college. So I mean, my. And she was just a force and she had a fabulous Olympics. So we watching that unfold and saying, wow, who is this young woman? And that inspired me to see if I could shoot a USA practice. And they allowed me into a closed door practice. And so I got a few kind of behind the scenes of her and watched her interact with her teammates. And that was a pretty cool experience. And something different from my Olympics.
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B
How do you go about that? Do you have to pitch it or is it kind of like you've been around, you have a rapport? Is it just more like ask?
- [30:09]
C
And granted, it was an ask. And I got a maybe. Maybe's tough, you know? And it was, okay, I'll let you know tomorrow. So then the tomorrow happened. And then I was checking. Hey, I'm checking in. Yeah, yeah. When we get closer, I'll let you know. Okay. And there was a lot of media stuff. They wanted to keep the media out of this one, but I'm not media. But it seemed like it was a no no. So now less than an hour away and still not hearing from her and the person who is making this decision or who's asking somebody else, whoever that is. So I thought, well, I better just head over there because now I'm running out of time. So I'm going to assume I'm shooting it. And then when I get to the door and they say, don't come in, that was the only way I could do it. So it really last minute decision. And then I texted her and said, hey, I'm here. And she didn't answer. And then I just walked in and walked through. They're like, oh, you can't go in there. Like, there's no photographer. I go, I think they're expecting me. And that's all I kept saying. And I kept walking through doors. And then I got there and she goes, you got in? And so I was like, yeah, that's. And she was awesome, you know, and then she just told me what not to shoot. You know, there were some things that were off limits for different reasons and that made sense, but I didn't need any of that. And it ended up being great. And the coaches were really happy I was there because I did some photos for them. And so they kind of had a photographer there for them as well. So it worked out and it was great. It was some relationship building. And then there was another story there of one of the women coaches, ends up she's the mom of the player who scored the winning goal. And I didn't even know that. So I shot. You found out? And then I found out. Yeah. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that is so crazy. So there's this woman, I looked her up and, you know, she was a young hockey player herself and played in the 80s and she has three, you know, who play hockey. So anyway, great stories.
- [32:02]
B
Again, it's like you couldn't. We said this when we talked on the phone last week or so, and it was like, you couldn't have been at a better Olympics as far as stories are concerned. Like, this was it. There was so much packed into it. It's like you couldn't have planned for better moments to happen, especially representing the US Women's team.
- [32:20]
C
Yeah, it was fantastic. And then so being able to. Even going back to your question about, you know, do you take chances and how do you shoot this? So. And it's important to like talk about that because shooting through the plexi, but the positions, you know, going back to the positions that you could find, like you could Shoot behind the net, which you can't do at any kind of regular professional hockey game. There's no place behind the net, but any place was open around the plexi, as long as there were seats open and so you really could move around. And then the up position was incredible. The up position was terrific. And then what pictures that I need to make. And I had to think about that because the up position allowed me. I wanted the Olympic rings. I wanted it the same Milan Cortina. I wanted my pictures to have a sense of place. So the background of my pictures became very important.
- [33:09]
B
Interesting. And as far as stories are concerned, again, going back to stories outside of what's happening on the ice, was there a lot of time to develop that? I mean, it sounds like everything is pretty. You're stretched thin when you're not shooting, you're editing, or you're trying to catch up on sleep. Was there time for you in between to try to get access to the players, or do they have. Are they able. I mean, everything's squeezed into such a confined amount of time.
- [33:32]
C
Do you have everything squeezed in? For sure. And the players are really locked down in a lot of ways. They have certain events they have to be at. They stay as a team. So it was hard. There was a few moments I got to be at some of the USA players, ended up going to learn how to make pasta. So I joined a pasta making session for.
- [33:53]
B
That's what that picture was.
- [33:54]
C
Yeah. Yeah. And so their kids were there, too. So, I mean, I shot the kids for them, but not, of course, for, you know, just keeping their privacy. But some of those pictures that were just great to have, like these women behind the scenes learning how to make pasta. I didn't expect that to happen. And an important one for me for the project was Billie Jean King had some appearances, and the one that I wanted to go to was on the Today show because their background was the Duomo. So it was at the Duomo that she was gonna be on the Today Show. So being able to be behind the scenes with her, So I asked permission for that. And she was with an Olympic player, one of the women US Players. So the two of them went on set. So I got to be with them, take photos with them and be at the Duomo, and that was terrific. And then also following around the podcast because they had some guests on, so doing some behind the scenes there. All different. Adding to the story and making it more personal.
- [34:53]
B
Love it. You didn't get to wear the Eagle mask.
- [34:55]
C
I photographed the Eagles they were on the podcast, the three boys. That was quite the picture. They wore their eagle heads. Yeah, they were awesome.
- [35:05]
B
I love it. I love it. Well, sounds like a great time to take a break. We're gonna go roll out some handmade pasta. So stretch, stand up, shake it out. If you're already standing, have a seat, relax. And when we come back, we'll continue the conversation with Jean Fruth about her introduction to capturing the high stakes world of Olympic sports.
- [35:24]
A
We hope you're enjoying this edition of the Be Niche Photography podcast. The best way to support the show is by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. For links to gear and more information on today's guests, check out the show notes on your podcast app or visit our homepage on the B and H Explorer website and join our B and H Photography podcast Facebook group. And now back to the show.
- [35:51]
B
And we're back.
- [35:55]
C
Uh oh.
- [35:58]
B
I guess laughing is the best way to come back into this. We are here with Jean Fruth talking Olympics, of course. She just got back from her first Olympic Games and we got a little bit of the opening experience. Your first impressions, obviously you're a Sony artisan of imagery and gear is a big factor as far as how you're shooting these games. I want to go back to the media center because you said you ran back there to grab a 300. What are you doing? Bringing what's provided in the media center. We've all seen the pictures from the Olympics where it's like every brand rolls out their arsenal of every lens. Everybody, what's on you, what is provided for you.
- [36:38]
C
All right, Everybody had their what's in my bag? And that's pretty cool. The media center was completely out of the way from the arena, but staffed with both volunteers. And there was a photo manager at each arena, and they were terrific. One, it was his first Olympics doing in this position, and the other, been around forever. He's from London. Both equally as nice. But the cool thing about that experience with them is, I mean, you can go to these kind of big events and you're nervous and you got pictures you want to make and there's so many restrictions and rules and sure, there's restrictions and rules, but the two photo managers, they took an approach of, how can we help you get what you need? How can we help you be comfortable? And they couldn't have been nicer, More accommodating, explaining things, having photo meetings, telling you what you can do, what you can't do, and Then answering questions. And one particular photo manager who was at the one arena where just the women were playing, but then they moved over to the second arena where the gold and bronze was played. He moved over there as well. And when a push came to shove and I needed help for that gold game and I had a plan that I wanted to execute that was a little tricky. He helped me execute that plan, and we talked about it together, how I could accomplish what I wanted to and still and get all the pictures that I wanted to make. Because I certainly went into plan mode after I got my first night's sleep. And so the rest of the Olympics was plan mode for me. But it's a big room. It's got lockers, so you can lock up all your stuff. I never locked up my stuff. I went to the same table because I'm like the kind of person who wears the same clothes every day and goes to the same place every day and sit in the same chair every day. Those kind of things bring me comfort. Yes. And I mean, I've even had baseball players say, why do you wear the same clothes every day? And like, you think, I mean, they wear the same clothes every day, but comfortable. Yeah. So it's just. It's a comfort thing. So I have the same pair of pants, and they are in the same color, and I pack all the same ones every trip. So I went to the same table. I did not lock my gear up. I thought, you know, it just didn't seem necessary. So I just left all my gear on the table so I could go back and forth and grab different lenses. And though there was a hustle, I mean, the hockey has, you know, 20 minutes in between periods, and so you can hustle and go get something else and say, okay, okay, I'm going to shoot the first period from the ice level, and then I'm going to shoot the second period from here, and then I'm going to go back, or maybe I'm going to get the celebration from up above. And it gives you time to be able to go back and forth and maybe change gear and change lenses and figure out something else. So really bringing almost everything. I quickly stepped away from the remotes idea. The remotes are better set up for the wires where they get to the Olympics early. They don't do a talk in Oregon and show up late. They arrive days early. The wires as they. And they set up their remotes before the games even begin in the ceiling or whatever, and then they're just passing around their pocket wizards or Whatever they're using to fire their remotes.
- [39:47]
B
So you tried it, you tried the remote thing and it wasn't.
- [39:49]
C
So I was going to set it up, but there was a lot of difficulties. And there was also a restriction on the type of remotes you could use. You couldn't use like the regular, certain pocket wizards you could use. I didn't have the right ones. I could have borrowed the right ones. I did bring the gear for it. So if you don't bring it, then you can't use it. So you're better off bringing everything and being safe. And I certainly did that. But then I didn't need to bring everything to the arena anymore. My magic arms and stuff, I didn't need to bring that because I realized my plan and the pictures that I needed to make for my project really didn't require that. I'm shooting so many remotes back home in professional hockey and there's only so many remotes you want to put in a project. You know, those kind of angles and I have that and I'll continue to get that. So the Olympics needs to tell a different story, you know, so certainly you need the game winning goal and you want those moments, but it doesn't need to be from a remote angle necessarily. And then going back and forth between arenas also adds a complexity to that. You know, being able to take your remote down, you can't just do it at any time. So I had plenty of gear to be able to switch. And even one of the seventy to two hundreds that I brought that I would have used as a remote, I ended up using that lens for different things. So what I thought I was going to use the lenses for, for my plan shifted. But I ended up using all of my gear one way or another, which was pretty cool. Just not necessarily in the way I thought I was going to.
- [41:08]
B
It's a great feeling to have everything and there's nothing that's like, man, I lugged this all the way over here and I didn't bring it out once.
- [41:14]
C
Yeah, exactly. But a worst feeling is, oh my gosh, I really wish I had that. And now it's all the way back.
- [41:20]
B
Did it happen? Was there anything that you didn't done that you thought you.
- [41:23]
C
Nope. Just extra gear, extra lugging. But who cares?
- [41:27]
B
See, your planning worked out.
- [41:29]
C
Planning certainly worked out. But you know, you over bring. But I didn't overpack my clothes. Clothing either. And I had one pair of shoes.
- [41:39]
B
Keeps it easy, right?
- [41:41]
C
Was that easy?
- [41:41]
B
It keeps it easy.
- [41:42]
C
It keeps it easy. It Keeps it simple. You don't have to think about that. You just think about your gear. You don't have to worry about what you're wearing every day. You're just putting the same thing back on.
- [41:49]
B
Was it two bodies? Two bodies are.
- [41:51]
C
No, I had four bodies with me.
- [41:54]
B
And you brought it all around.
- [41:56]
C
Oh, no, I didn't bring it every day. I had the four bodies just in case I was gonna shoot with the remotes. But I did bring three bodies because sometimes it's just easier to have, like, if you want a wide angle, you know, to have that on that additional body, just go get it. Shoot your wides or whatever. Instead of having to switch lenses, sometimes I was switching back and forth. But why not? If you have it, you know, you might as well bring it.
- [42:19]
B
Any primes or was it like holy trinity zooms or. What was the lens layout?
- [42:23]
C
I had the 12 to 24 for the wides. I love that 12 to 24. I have the F4. I don't have the F2, but I would definitely want the F2. Of course, F2A. But the 12 to 24 is just great for those pretty wide shots. I always want a scene setter, and so shooting the arenas and that kind of thing. And then the 28 to 70, the F2. What a great lens. That ended up being against the plexi. I brought it thinking I was going to do portraits with it, and certainly it's a nice portrait lens, but it ended up being a great for game action.
- [43:00]
B
I was like the workhorse.
- [43:02]
C
I ended up going right against the plexi to the glass, but right behind and getting the women kind of just coming around behind the net. And it made such cool pictures. So, yeah, so having that 28 to 70 f2, just great lens. And then my 50 to 150, I call that my new hockey handhold lens. So the 50 to 150 is really fun, and that's fun to shoot through the glass with. Of course, no holes in the Olympics. But I ended up shooting game action with that as well. And then I'd say, okay, tomorrow I'm gonna shoot with the 28 to 70 for the first game. That's gonna be when the action's right on top of me. And then I shot with the 300. So when they were on the other side of the ice, I would pick up the 300. So I'd go back and forth, and there was time to go. You know, you have to go fast. You're gonna miss things. But it really was fun. To go across the ice with the 300 and then have the 28 to 70 right in front of you. Game action. And then 70 to 200 if I was just hand holding and shooting from the the side. So I was mixing it up. And it's cool to mix it up because of course, you know, same lens, you get the same look. So having different, you know, even just different perspectives, it really makes, makes a nice difference. Changing up your gear and what you get. And then of course going up, you know, with the 400. And the 300 was very cool. And thank God I had the 400. I shot the opening ceremonies, which was incredible. And I did get there hours before and I needed it because I got wrong tracks directions three times before I finally found my position. And I went up and down so many steps. It was.
- [44:39]
B
Wait, you got wrong directions. Not getting to like once you got there, you got wrong directions.
- [44:43]
C
Yeah. First I got like, I, I, I took like a subway to a stop and I, maybe I got off at the wrong stop. I'm not sure. But I walked surely like a mile and a half with all my gear. And I had a 400. I had gear backpack, like a lot of gear. And, and I had the 400 in my hand. Handholding 400 walking. And then I get there and I knew I was getting an up position, which I absolutely wanted an up position. But how to get to this up position? Like everybody was giving me direction with such confidence that you'd believe them. And then I'd go all the way up to. You got to go up to the top of this tower and then you walk over this bridge and then you're going to find it. And I walk up to the top of tower, walk over to the bridge and like, oh, no, you can't get there from here. You got to walk back over the bridge. You got to walk down the tower. You had to walk through this and then go up the other tower. And I literally went three towers and then found out that the towers can't get me there at all. That I had to be part of the main arena. It was quite wild, but what pictures the 400 ended up making for me. So you needed to have that for the opening ceremony. So it was worth carrying it around. And I ate extra pizza for my reward. I had a pizza every single day.
- [45:58]
B
Come on, don't tell me that every day.
- [46:00]
C
Yep. And I found a place that delivers 1:30 in the morning and delivers like one of those, you know, wood burning oven. This is not Domino's.
- [46:09]
B
10 out of 10 pizza.
- [46:10]
C
Like a gorgeous wood burning oven pizza.
- [46:13]
B
A little bit of char on the crust.
- [46:14]
C
Oh yeah. Any time of day or night, 1:30
- [46:17]
B
in the morning, cup of char, pepperoni.
- [46:19]
C
Oh yeah, everything. Yeah. And anything I want on it delivered hot.
- [46:22]
B
We're changing the podcast. We're becoming a food podcast.
- [46:25]
C
It was insane. Yeah. And I didn't feel guilty about it at all. I came back, I edited, I'm like editing one and it gave me. I'm like, okay, I can go to 4 and I edit to 4am Then get some sleep, find coffee, repeat back
- [46:40]
B
to the rinse, repeat.
- [46:43]
C
Yeah.
- [46:44]
B
Here's a smooth segue from wood burning ovens to back to gear. Sony A1. Is that the body of choice?
- [46:52]
C
You asked what gear I'm telling you about pizza.
- [46:54]
B
I mean, look, I'm all for a transition margarita.
- [46:57]
C
Occasionally I'd go with the pepper on.
- [46:59]
B
We can talk about that.
- [47:00]
C
No, So I was shooting with Sony A1s, all A1s and A12s. So my two main bodies. Yeah, the A12s. I know I'm spoiled now. The A12s can't go back. Yeah. And I really like the A12s because of the big file size and being able to crop because it's. Sometimes I was like, I was saying trying to like shoot it a little bit wider. I wanted maybe signage or I wanted Olympic rings in it. And then I'd look at it and say, you know, that game action is too good to have wide. Like really, it needs to go tight. So I shot it wide and then had the option of cropping in tight and making it a more impactful photo.
- [47:36]
B
That is how you do it, people. Because there's always this argument of like, oh well, you know, you should frame. No, sometimes you have that vision and the vision doesn't work. But you can't go back, you can crop after. You can't go into post and expand your frame. So you have to kind of look and see the whole scene shoot a little wider. And sometimes it doesn't look the same when the image is up on the screen. Right.
- [47:57]
C
It's true. Like what you're saying is people just say, you know, you should be cropping in the camera, camera, you should be. And certainly you want to get your exposure right in the camera. There's no excuse for that now. I mean you can, you want and you want to frame and compose your picture. You don't want to get lazy. But shooting wider when you have that file size and preserving your option of do you want more Of a sense of place. Do you like your background? And then you end up capturing this fabulous action shot and you say, you know what, this has got to be tight. I'm going to get rid of the background. I'm going to go right to the game. Action. It's too good or you want both? When Megan Keller raised her hands and the winning goal, I had it loose with the signage. And then I have her tight a few frames later where we see the expression on her face. And so I don't want to choose, I want both. I want it all.
- [48:52]
B
There's some discernment there because there's always someone out there that's going to be like, well, no, there's certain shots where you're like, I see something. I'm going to shoot a little wider. It's not for everything cropping is. Having the ability to crop with these high resolution cameras is great in certain circumstances. It's not an automatic bailout. It's not a way to shoot. It's nice to have when you need it, when the situation's right.
- [49:16]
C
Certainly nice to have. Yeah. And for sports, it lends itself like really well because sometimes you just can't get close enough to the action. So, you know, in that case you certainly want the option to be able to crop. Of course, Sony was there, you know, at the Olympics, so they had, you know, options for borrowing. And I, I saw lots of people with a 9:3s and all kinds of lenses. And it was really cool to see all that gear out there and everybody shooting with different gear and trying things out. And it was a great place for experimentation because maybe you don't know and you need something. So it's pretty cool that they're there and they lent gear out for those who needed it or those who just wanted to try it.
- [49:54]
B
I would have been over there. Like the $15,000 lenses where they are, I don't want to use them.
- [49:59]
C
Exactly. I'll take two four hundreds and a six.
- [50:02]
B
Exactly. Here you can hold on to my kit lens.
- [50:05]
C
Exactly. So yeah, having that gear and the 70 to 200 ended up being a workhorse for me as well. 300 I used like probably every day. It's definitely just one of my favorite lenses. And it's just such a great lens for hockey, especially with the up position and the way the 400 can be depending on how up. Because there's different ups too on these arenas. Like how high do you want to go there? The main arena where the bronze and gold and other men's games Were there as well. You can have, like, a very high up where 400 would make more sense, or you can have a low up where there's. You can get blocked at times, but it's a cool up because it's not too high. You're just over the plexi. You get blocked a little bit, but you also get faces. Right. When you go up too high, you get tops of heads. I don't want tops of heads. I want faces.
- [50:52]
B
So there's like, a balance.
- [50:54]
C
Yeah. Take the risk. Go for the faces. Yeah, that's. Yeah.
- [50:57]
B
What about the settings? Baseball. When you have the bright lights at baseball, it's great light. When you have broad daylight, it's usually great light. Unless it's like that midday game at Yankee Stadium where the sun's directly over your head. Hockey? Not so much, or I wouldn't think so. Was lighting a challenge? Was there color cast? Did you shoot mechanical shutter or electronic shutter?
- [51:20]
C
Oh, yeah, I shot electronic shutter. There's, like, certain times where maybe I want to switch to mechanical. There's some, like, you know, lighting situation behind or electronic boards. But in this case, the lighting in both of these. I mean, it's the Olympics, so they did some preparation. The main arena actually wasn't finished. Like, they were still under construction. It was kind of crazy. Like, that's why we had to go through construction doors. And there was just, like, paper signs with arrows, like, go this way. And it was. Yeah. Like, they're still finishing it.
- [51:52]
B
They didn't realize the Olympics were happening.
- [51:54]
C
I think they.
- [51:54]
B
I don't know.
- [51:54]
C
They were. Were behind, so. But it didn't matter. Like, as much as all of that happened, they were so nice, and they had such good pizza. It didn't matter. Didn't matter. Like, they could do no wrong. The Italians, every day of the week, I would take them over anybody else.
- [52:08]
B
The pizza washed over everything else.
- [52:09]
C
Yeah. And the kindness, even when they were giving me directions in completely the wrong direction, they did it so nicely that I was like, okay, I forgive them. They were really nice to me.
- [52:18]
B
Was this your first time in Italy?
- [52:19]
C
No, I love Italy.
- [52:20]
B
Oh, okay. No.
- [52:21]
C
Yeah.
- [52:22]
B
So you weren't a stranger to the culture and. No.
- [52:25]
C
And I just find you just can't have a nicer group of people. Like, it's just, you know, and the volunteers were just so lovely, so the lighting was a plus. You can just, you know, go on auto for your. I mean, there was nothing that you needed to do. I mean, you didn't have to pump up the ISOs. I mean, I still am going to shoot F2 and F 2.8, like all day long, like, you know, because I want that pretty look and blurring my backgrounds. And for me, that's great. But yeah, we could shoot it sooner. Low isos, because they're well lit. So, yeah, no issues there. And there's some arenas that I go to for the project where certainly, you know, there's some challenges and you gotta work on your white balance a little bit. But not many, not many the professional arenas, but some of the older ones, you know, there's some challenges. But the good news is, I mean, like now, I mean, gosh, these Sony cameras, you can pump up the ISO so high and it just doesn't matter. Like, you still get this high quality image, you know, without noise. And so it's pretty.
- [53:20]
B
Do you have like a sweet spot? You try to hover, knowing that you can go high. Do you go for higher? And you want to freeze that action, obviously, when you're not trying to drag. Because I did see you got a lot of creative shots. I love the shutter drag. I love the panning. Oh, those are my favorite ones.
- [53:35]
C
Yeah, the panning was really fun. And you know, the cool thing is, is you could, you could set your presets for that, right? Like on the A12, which I was using for the panning. So I would just set a preset and then I'd pan, pan, pan, pan, pan. Okay, enough. Pan. Okay, make some pictures, Gene. Go back. And I'm like, oh, I want to pan again. Pan, pan, pan, pan. You just like. And you just switch back and forth and you have your two settings for. I mean, the lighting's not changing the arena, it's constant. So you have your regular setting and then you have your panning setting. And it's so easy to go back and forth and play with panning when you want to. So that makes it super easy. Instead of trying to dial everything in and then you might miss something. Cause you're dialing back and there's a goal and then you're playing.
- [54:17]
B
Yeah, exactly. You got it in panning mode and it's the goal. And it's just. I was going for that.
- [54:23]
C
That was exactly what I wanted.
- [54:24]
B
Artistic blur. Now I want to go back to the plexiglass. While we're talking about challenges of shooting, it kind of sounds like it wasn't really a thing like you would think shooting through. We as photographers, especially in the educational sphere, we spend our entire careers telling people, don't put bad glass on good glass. And don't go out and buy a $10 UV filter and you're out here shooting through plexiglass and. And can't tell. The images look great.
- [54:50]
C
Yeah, no, the plexi was quite challenging. And there were spots. You know, once a puck hits it or gets a big scratch, no matter what they're using on that to the next day, they're not getting some of that stuff out. And as the games went on, you know, through the weeks then, it was getting more and more dinged up and becoming more and more of a problem. And there were certain people who had their designated spots, you know, but maybe they didn't even want them anymore because they had a big scratch going through.
- [55:17]
B
The rookies get all the scratched up plesy dies.
- [55:19]
C
There was always a place to shoot. There was always a way, like, you could. You have to find a way anyway, so. But I'd like, shoot in a place going, okay, this is just not working. Like, this big scratch is, like, going through, and so you got to move, you know, so you got to shift and find another way. And then there's like, the temporary stuff that gets sprayed on, or maybe there's a smudge that can come out. And in between periods, when they're coming with this Zamboni, there's also these nice volunteers that have rags, so if you make friends with them. I made friends with one particular woman, showed her where my section was, and she'd come. She's on skates, and she'd come skating over, and she'd wipe my little section of glass, and everybody else would wave to her. Me, too. Me too. We'd all, like, you know, kiss up to her and say, please, please. And we'd make praying hands, and she'd be on the other side, and she'd be cleaning all of our sections. And it was kind of fun, you know, so we'd get our sections cleaned, and then we could start over and hopefully have. And it made different pictures. I mean, yes, because plexi, you have to shoot straight through, right? Like, as soon as you turn to the left or the right, well, then, you know, you have to convince yourself that's another kind of art. And maybe it's okay, but not so much so you're limited, so you have to pick your spot. So there was pros and cons to it, but the cool thing was going behind somewhere behind the net. I loved that because I'm thinking about my project. I'm going to make pictures here that I'm not going to probably be able to make in another arena for the rest of this project. So while I have this spot, even though it's shooting through glass or plexi, I'm going to make some pictures because they're coming straight on to me, which is really cool. And even with holes in the glass and other arenas in Madison Square Garden, you're always off to the side. You're never behind the net, so you don't get a hole there. So it's very cool to have that opportunity to shoot from that spot. So I took advantage of that and made some pictures from that. All my pictures from there, but made some pictures from there.
- [57:11]
B
How much did you try to pan or get creative? Was there other kind of stuff where you wanted to get creative, or did you have. Did you have a list? Like, did you go in with an idea or was it kind of. I'm just gonna go with the flow.
- [57:23]
C
Oh, no, I had a list and then address. Okay. No, I'm so boring. I wear the same clothes. I make a list. Oh, yeah. It's the way for me. Not everybody's way. You know, it's. Some people can just be cool and go and create. For me, creating is planning. Or it certainly helps get everything right down to the very last game. What pictures do I make? What do I want to come out with? Whatever it is, what do I want to come out with for the bronze game? And I want that to be different for the gold game, and just all of those things. So my panning moments, it's kind of like, when do I want to capture fan shots at the World Series? Well, I want to do that early and get that done and whatever. So when do I want to do panning? When I have the other opportunity where it's not a do or die. Like, I don't need everything I don't need. Here's a time to play. And the colors of the uniforms were a big deal for me. Right. Because you got this white ice. So what look do I want? Wow, this is really cool with this red. So maybe I want that. Or this yellow is really cool. And I mean, just the colors of the uniforms go into play. Maybe you want something kind of subdued and you want it to be disappearing. Maybe you want it to be white, because that's something else for you. But the color of the uniform were also part of the choice for me.
- [58:38]
B
Yeah, that was one of the things that jumped out for me, Especially when we talk about the motion drag and everything. Cause then it's more of like a. It Looks like painterly. And the colors lend such an interesting look with the white backdrop of the ice. Cause it's hard to. It's not the most photogenic canvas, a hockey rink like baseball, especially with some of these stadiums now, like PNC park in Pittsburgh. It's like when you're behind home plate and you just look up and it's like, it's majestic, obviously. Yankee Stadium and Dodger Stadium. It's like there's so many iconic looks.
- [59:11]
C
30 venues, 30 different. Yeah.
- [59:14]
B
And I feel like every hockey rink, yes, they all look the same to me.
- [59:17]
C
And hockey pictures can look the same very quickly. When I started to do research for the project, that was the one thing I went, oh, my gosh, everything looks the same.
- [59:27]
B
How do you define. That's a problem? How do you approach that?
- [59:29]
C
Right. Well, you have to, like, figure out, how can I make things that look different? I mean, even if you look at somebody's feed, their social media feed that they shoot hockey, it could really start to look the same every. Like, didn't I just see that picture yesterday? Like, oh, no, it's a different one. Not today. Because it really can look the same. So it's a challenge. Like, how do you do that? Well, certainly different angles and remotes, but the colors, motion, drag behind the scenes. What else? Fans, what can you do to make your pictures look different and keep it interesting for yourself and for the viewer?
- [60:04]
B
Was there a dream shot that you had in mind?
- [60:06]
C
Well, the end. The end. You know, I wanted to.
- [60:09]
B
Cat's out of the bag now. We don't have to act all coy. I mean, it worked out. United States.
- [60:15]
C
I had USA on my credential, and what I was told was, okay, here's how the pecking order is going to work. For getting on the ice after the game, we're going to put a carpet out, and then the rights holders and the wires are going to go on first. So that means they're going to be centered.
- [60:30]
B
Who are the rights holders?
- [60:31]
C
Like NBC, I guess. Iopc. Okay, so they get to go on, and the wires get to go on. But I want a center. You want the group shot with everybody holding the medals. Right. You want that shot. You want to be on the ice, and you want to be center. And they said, okay, if your country wins, then you get on first. And then if your country's second or then third and then fourth, and then it goes from there. And then if you're shooting for another entity, a paper or whatever, you know, then you're so the Longer you wait to get on the ice, the more of a side view you're gonna get of that center picture. And I really wanted that picture, but I also wanted to shoot from the up. So then I was nervous of how do I get down through all the fans, down the stairs, through all those doors that it takes to get to. I wish. I wish I had a video for you to show.
- [61:24]
B
I took the rescue. Did it.
- [61:25]
C
I did, and the photo manager helped me. I said, this is what I'm doing. He goes, ugh. Okay. Okay. I think. And so my photo position up above, I put myself in the aisle, which was also risky because then people walk and they can block you. And I'm little, and so, you know, I'm short. So how is that going to work? I'll take that risk. I know what to do there. Okay. So if I'm on the aisle, then I can get out of that photo position because you can't block the other photographers. I'm going to run now, so I got to be on the end. I know what people I want to make before I move, right? I got to get winning goal. I got to get the arms raised. I got to get the hug. I got to get the huddle. So it's the same. It's a repeat of any sport, right? Like, there's the winning. Whatever the winning goal.
- [62:11]
B
It's been there before.
- [62:12]
C
It's the same.
- [62:12]
B
It's another body thing.
- [62:14]
C
And it's going to happen again. I'm going to practice with the bronze game, and then I'm going to adjust for the gold game, but it's going to happen. I mean, each is different, but it's going to.
- [62:24]
B
Gene, that would have been a long flight back. I mean, if you go. Imagine you go all the way up there, and the shot just sucks, and then you get back down, and you're like, damn, they're skating off the ice.
- [62:35]
C
I missed it. Oh, no.
- [62:37]
B
It didn't happen. So we. I mean, we can talk about it and laugh about it now, but, like, those are the risks.
- [62:41]
C
Oh, yeah. And I left my gear, my backpack up there because I just went down with what I was going to shoot on the ice with.
- [62:47]
B
This is the second time you've talked about leaving gear. I just left it like another country. All we hear as Americans about going over to Europe is like, you're gonna get pickpocketed. I left tens of thousands of dollars in gear.
- [62:59]
C
You're just like, yeah, I left the whole backpack of gear and the 300 all just, like, sitting In a.
- [63:06]
B
Have you checked to make sure that it's not like one of those, like, coffee mugs that looks like a 70 to 200?
- [63:11]
C
Somebody gave me a present for one of those once. It's a very odd present. Yeah, I know what you're talking about, actually. Nope. It was all there. And I hustled down, went through all. All those doors, got there, waited. I had plenty of time. And then I got onto it, Got exactly the spot. I was so nice and everybody was so kind helping me get there, and then made the pictures. And it was important to be on the ice afterwards because also the hugs, the celebration, the moments when they're getting their medal the first time they have it in their hand and they look down at it, you want to be close to that. You don't want that to be. Be an upshot. You want, if you can. If you have the opportunity to be on the ice, that's different. You want to be more intimate, so you want that closer. And then moments of they're skating right to you and they got their flag on their back and they're with their best friend and they're hugging for the first time with their medals. All of those moments, you can't repeat them. They'll go back and somebody will say, can I take a picture with you and your medal? Yes. But are they going to have that same look on their face? Is the adrenaline going to be in their, like, the moment, right. That game's over and then they're getting that medal and everything is happening. You can't repeat that. It's once and it's done.
- [64:25]
B
Was there anything you took from this experience? Obviously, every time you photograph an event like this, you're going to take something from it. Is there something that you took from the Olympics that you didn't have in a World Series, that you didn't have in anything else that you'd photographed? Is there something that you can take into your next shoot or project or big event that you can say, you know what? The Olympics taught me this, or I learned this from my experience shooting the Olympics.
- [64:52]
C
I mean, certainly. I mean, gosh, just so grateful. To get a chance to shoot at that highest level is just. For me, you know, it was a dream. And having the PWHL support and USA Hockey support, like, it was very cool to have an insect habit my first Olympics and say, well, she's a rookie. She's going to shoot from the ladies bathroom. But, no, it didn't work out that way. Like, I got front and center because you know, the credentialing matters, and for the project, it mattered for sure. But I haven't been nervous in a long time. And so having those nerves and then overcoming that, and it felt good in some ways, right, to be nervous like that. And then you overcome it, and then you realize, like, you control almost everything. Like, you can really control your environment and you can make pictures anywhere. And it took it to another. I mean, I know that, but it took it to another level. For me, being able to do this this way and navigating all of it and getting to these places and figuring it all out, and then just the kindness, like, the kindness of other photographers that were there, all different. I mean, women from all different countries, men from all different countries. Everybody's experience. You think you're the only one who's first. Then you hear everybody saying, oh, you know, this is my first Olympics, and everybody's in it together, taking pictures. The support of other photographers supporting you, whether they had lots of experience doing this or it was their first time, it was really collaborative. And it was separated because there was, you know, of course, Games in Milan and Games in Cortina, and those were four hours apart, so people didn't get to go back and forth. So you were one or the other. You were in Camp Milano or you're in Camp Cortino. I'm sure both had good pizza. Milano I can vouch for. But for me, the photographers that were there and doing it, it couldn't have been a more collaborative, cool group. So just because it's the highest level, it doesn't mean it can't be collaborative, and it can't be something that you walk away with a great experience.
- [66:49]
B
I love that. It's a sense of camaraderie versus competition among the photographers, and that's great. I mean. And how many people are listening to you right now? How many young photographers are listening to you talk about this and being inspired, and maybe one day it's going to be their chance and their turn, and they're going to be sitting there in front of the scratched Plexiglass because Jean Fruth has her spot on the glass. What do you tell those photographers? What is something that you would want to tell Jean of 10, 15, 20 years ago about going to this level and really performing? You said that the nerves were there. They're always there. They're hiding. As comfortable as you are on the big moments at the biggest stage, it still is there. Deep inside you. There's always an event or a moment that can coax that out of you. What do you tell those people when they feel those nerves, when they need to step up on the big stage for themselves?
- [67:47]
C
I think people so much, so many of us, so many times in our life, we think we don't belong there. Right? It's like imposter syndrome. Like, you think, oh, my God, every. Like, I'm going to be found out. Like, I don't belong here with everybody else. And I like to say, you belong here. You're here, you belong here, so you belong there. And I think that all your experience that led you there and all the games, and you're ready for it, and telling yourself you're ready for it. All the preparation and everything that you did up to this has got you here. And having confidence in yourself and certainly preparing. There's just not enough time in the day for me to talk about having the prep and having your shot list for every single one. There's nothing like. Like calming the nerves is having a plan. I mean, I pictured what was going to happen that last game. And did it happen? No, it didn't happen the way I expected it to happen. But I was so prepared anyway to shift when the game. I thought the game was going to be a blowout because of how USA was playing. And it ended up being the tightest game Canada could have easily won. It was anybody's game right up until the end. I lined myself up in front of my opposition, in front of USA's bench, picturing them jumping over and running to their goal. And then what happened? It went to overtime, so their goalie switched to the other side. I was like, oh, okay. And I knew that was a possibility, but I didn't think so because of how USA was playing all the way through. And that did not happen. It ended up being the most breathless game, but I was ready and I was prepared for all of it. And I was calm because everything that led up to it helped me with that. So I passed that advice on. And then everything that you share, if you're shooting a college World Series, if you're shooting a high school championship, when you approach it like it's the Olympics, then you're ready for the Olympics, right? So when I shoot a Little League game, I shoot it like I'm shooting a Major League baseball game. And I have the same preparation, and I want to make pictures, and I'm proud of the pictures because I want to make great pictures of whatever I'm shooting. And that prepares you for whatever your next highest event is.
- [69:51]
B
Wonderful advice. It's been a wonderful conversation. What projects other than the women's hockey project are in the works? And where are we at with this project? Where is it going? What's the timeline like?
- [70:03]
C
Yeah, so, I mean, we still have things to shoot. I gotta tell the story of the girls playing. I'm hoping to get some pretty light pictures. They do play outside at a certain level. So I need some. I need some sunshine to add to the artificial light. So we gotta find some of that. Need some college players. So I've got another year for the project, but it's going to be fun because now I'm going to start actually working with an editor and having a look and saying, okay, what do we have here? What does it look like? What would be nice to fill in? So not waiting to the end to see, okay, what else do I need? I'm looking at what I need, what I have, and what would be great to start filling in with. So this next year, I'm going to have a plan. The plan. Things become so boring. You with the plan, never me with the plan.
- [70:51]
B
Just no more speeches at Oregon right before big events.
- [70:55]
C
I know. Yeah, I told him I had to go. I'm, like, going to shoot the. When? I'm, like, right now, like, I'm flying out. 5 o' clock in the morning.
- [71:01]
B
I gotta leave.
- [71:02]
C
Yeah, I gotta go now.
- [71:04]
B
Gene, this is a great conversation. I want to thank you not only for joining us on the podcast today, but coming in, doing it live in the studio. I love it. It's a different feel.
- [71:12]
C
This is great. I know I'm being h podcast. I'm so happy. Let's go.
- [71:16]
B
Huge. Thank you again to Gene Fruth for joining us and to all of our listeners out there, thank you for joining us today. If you are a fan of the show but are not yet a subscriber, head on over to Apple podcasts, Spotify, the BH YouTube channel, or wherever you get your podcasts and click subscribe. You can also find us on the Explorer blog where we post photos from our guests along with our show notes. I'm your host, Derek Fosbender. Jill Waterman is our creative producer. Episodes are recorded, mixed and edited by Technoca producer Mike Weinstein. And our executive producer is Dana Glidden. On behalf of us all, thank you so much for tuning in today.