2nd Commandment: No Idols

Summary

BibleProject Podcast: 2nd Commandment – No Idols

Episode Date: April 20, 2026
Hosts: Tim Mackie & John Collins
Main Theme: Exploring the meaning, context, and implications of the second commandment: “No Idols,” as part of the Ten Commandments series.

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Overview of the Episode

This episode dives into the second of the Ten Commandments, focusing on the prohibition against making idols. Tim Mackie and John Collins explore the ancient context of idolatry, the biblical vocabulary used to describe idols, and the deep theological reasons behind God’s command. They discuss how idolatry is not merely about replacing God with another, but also about reducing or domesticating the fullness of who God is. The conversation culminates in a profound reflection on humanity’s role as the authentic image of God, challenging listeners to “be the image” instead of making one.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ten Commandments as “Ten Words”

• [00:37] The commandments are introduced in the Bible not as rules but as “the ten words”— ten foundational ways to find life.
• [00:52] Tim Mackie: “God's commands will always point God's people towards even more life than you're currently experiencing and avoiding the diminishment of your life.”

2. The Command Against Idols

• [01:13] The text: “You will not make for yourself an idol or any likeness of what is in the skies above, or on the land beneath, or in the waters underneath the land.”
• Idols in the Ancient World: Statues (of animals) representing divine access; totally normal then, but explicitly forbidden for Israel.
• [01:40] Tim Mackie: “The moment you image Yahweh by something in your mind first, and then give a physical expression to that by something you make, you are reducing the incomprehensible, transcendent reality.”

3. Humans as God’s Image

• The Bible claims that while Israel cannot make an image of God, God has already made an image—humans.
• [02:31] John Collins: “If humans are God's image then don't make images—be the image of God to each other.”
• [02:37] Tim Mackie: “Look into the eyes of your neighbor... and you will see a reflection of the mystery and purpose of God that you will never encounter in a Bronze Bowl.”

4. The Broader Biblical Pattern of God’s Commands

• The pattern of God’s commands as life-giving, not restrictive:
  • Adam and Eve – God commands them to enjoy, then not to eat from one tree.
  • Noah – Obedience preserves life.
  • Abraham – Partial obedience brings chaos; full obedience brings life.
  • Israel – Called to be the vehicle of God’s blessing by obeying God’s voice.
• [06:44] Tim Mackie: (Deuteronomy 30) “I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Choose life... by loving Yahweh and listening to his voice.”

5. The Structure and Literary Devices in the Command

• The “no other gods” and “no idols” commands are closely linked, both negative and bookended by affirmations of Yahweh’s exclusivity and passion.
• The command uses a chiasm (symmetrical parallelism) centering on the “skies above, land beneath, waters under the land.”

6. Vocabulary of Idolatry in the Hebrew Bible ([14:28]–[25:21])

• Pestle: "The carved thing"—something chiseled or shaped from stone or wood.
• Maseka: "The molten thing"—molten metal poured into a mold.
• Selim: Image, as used for humans in Genesis 1.
• Elil (trash talk): “Useless” or “worthless” (cf. Job 13: elil as “physicians of nothing”).
• Gilul (strong insult!): “Disgusting waste” or “poop balls” (used mockingly by Ezekiel).
  • [23:10] Tim Mackie: “Gilul essentially refers to turds or poop. Poop balls.”
  • [26:36] John Collins: "Is what Ezekiel likes to call idols... pretty judgy!"

7. The Ancient Practice of Idolatry

• Idolatry was about accessing divine powers through physical representations (primarily animals regarded as embodying power/fertility).
• Archaeology shows idols shaped like calves and bulls—symbols of power.
• [32:14] Most found idols (e.g., bronze bulls) were surprisingly small, like paperweights.

8. The Temptation and Problem of Idolatry Explained

• Why animals? Animals functioned as a bridge between humans and divine powers, embodying forces of nature (fertility, storms, etc.).
• The Deeper Danger: To “image” God (even in thought) is already to reduce or contain God—making the infinite into something less.
  • [44:41] John Collins: “It's easy to think of idolatry as replacing Yahweh instead of just reducing Yahweh.”
  • [45:21] Tim Mackie: “The moment you image Yahweh by something in your mind first, and then give a physical expression to that... you are reducing the incomprehensible, transcendent reality.”

9. Deuteronomy’s Warning: The Danger of Reduction

• [41:23] Deuteronomy 4: Israel saw “no form” of God at Sinai—so they’re not to try shaping God into any familiar form, or worship the sun, moon, stars.
• Two dangers: replacement (choosing other gods) and reduction (domesticating Yahweh into something controllable).
• [49:01] Tim Mackie: “You are the image. That's right, I formed you... melting down metal to form a statue. So you shouldn't make an image of God because you will reduce the transcendence... [but] God already made an image of himself... humans.”

10. The Call to “Be the Image”

• The real invitation is not to make representations of God but to be God’s image—to other humans, through relating, loving, and reflecting God’s mysterious purpose.
  • [50:06] Tim Mackie: “Look into the eyes of your neighbor, your coworker, your family member, and you will see a reflection of the mystery and purpose of God that you will never encounter in a bronze bowl.”
  • [51:40] John Collins: “This is another example of a huge leap forward in thought, then.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “God's commands are first and foremost directing God's human partners about how to enjoy and discover life. God's commands are for life.”
  – Tim Mackie [03:33]

• “Why are you trusting something that you made?”
  – Tim Mackie, mocking idolatry via Habakkuk [16:25]

• “Gilul essentially refers to turds or poop. Poop balls.”
  – Tim Mackie [23:10]

• “Why would you make an image when you yourself... are the most brilliant image you could ever encounter?”
  – Tim Mackie [50:29]

• “So idolatry now... has two very different problems. One is replacing God; the other is reducing Yahweh… just domesticating Yahweh into something you can control.”
  – John Collins [52:30]

• “You are yourself, the closest image of the divine mystery.”
  – Tim Mackie [54:46]

• “Don’t create an image. Flip it. You’re the image. Be the image.”
  – John Collins & Tim Mackie [57:57–57:59]

• “The moment a river is treated as the one who is... the dignity of human life gets reduced... when you channel the right honor all the way up to the one who is love, that will compel humans to be an image of God in a very different kind of way.”
  – Tim Mackie [59:39–60:54]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:37–06:44: Foundational meaning of the commandments and the biblical pattern of God’s commands as life-giving.
• 13:54–25:21: Ancient vocabulary for idols, including “carved thing,” “molten thing,” and various derogatory terms (elil, gilul).
• 29:58–35:39: Archaeology and symbolism of animal-shaped idols (bulls/cows, eagles, snakes).
• 41:23–49:01: Deuteronomy’s rationale for not making images; humans as God’s true image.
• 52:30–54:53: The multiple problems with idolatry—replacement, reduction, and missing humanity’s calling.
• 57:42–59:02: How the prohibitions flip into a positive calling: “Be the image.”
• 59:02–61:56: Implications for modern application—how loving God and neighbor realizes the command.
• 62:05–63:38: Brief mention of generational consequences and pointers to further resources.

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Tone & Style

• Approachable, conversational, thoughtful, sometimes humorous.
• Mix of deep theology, biblical studies, language analysis, and practical application.

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Key Takeaways

• The prohibition against idols is not just about avoiding “false gods” but about refusing to reduce, shape, or domesticate the infinite God.
• The Bible’s radical claim is that humans are already God’s appointed image in creation.
• Idolatry diminishes both God and human dignity; the positive flip is to “be the image” through love and relationship.
• The second command is deeply connected to the first—Yahweh alone is life, and we reflect that life not by object-making but by how we live and treat others.

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Next Episode Teaser

• The third commandment: “Don’t take the Lord’s name in vain”—not just about speech, but about living and representing God accurately in the world.

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For deeper study and supporting resources, visit: bibleproject.com

Transcript

[Tim Mackie]

Hey everyone, this is Tyler from BibleProject and we're excited you're joining us in our Ten Commandments series. Here on the podcast, we wanted to make sure you know that we're also releasing weekly videos where we dive into each of these commands. These ancient words may sound familiar to many of us, but when we look deeper, we're often surprised at what we discover. To help you and your community explore more, we've created study resources and behind the scenes content. You can find the new videos weekly and all of our resources@tencommands Bibleproject.com now for today's episode.

[John Collins]

The ten Commandments in the Bible are not introduced as commands. They're called the ten words. And that's because they're not a rule book or a simple checklist to follow. The 10 words are 10 foundational ways for finding life.

[Tim Mackie]

God's commands will always point God's people towards even more life than you're currently experiencing and avoiding the diminishment of your life.

[John Collins]

And this idea of diminishing life connects us to what we'll talk about today. The second word. And it's about idolatry. In its simple form.

[Tim Mackie]

It reads, you will not make for yourself an idol or any likeness of what is in the skies above, or on the land beneath, or in the waters underneath the land.

[John Collins]

Now, idols are statues, usually of familiar animals, and they're meant to represent God and give you access to God. And while this practice was normal in the ancient world, the Creator God prohibited Israel from doing it.

[Tim Mackie]

The moment you image Yahweh by something in your mind first, and then give a physical expression to that by something you make, you are reducing the incomprehensible, transcendent reality.

[John Collins]

But interestingly, while God prohibits Israel from making an image of him, God made an image of himself. It's in Genesis 1 where humans are called the image of God. And in Deuteronomy, Moses reminds Israel of this in a creative way.

[Tim Mackie]

The Lord has taken you all the Israelites and brought you all out of the iron furnace. So Egypt is described as a furnace for melting down metal. And this is a very subtle reference to Israel is to imagine themselves as the molten image of God.

[John Collins]

If humans are God's image that don't make images be the image of God to each other.

[Tim Mackie]

If you want the closest representation that will get you closer than anything else, look into the eyes of your neighbor, your co worker, your family member, and you will see a reflection of the mystery and purpose of God that you will never encounter in a Bronze Bowl.

[John Collins]

Today, Tim Mackey and I explore the second word in the Ten Commandments. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Hey, Tim.

[Tim Mackie]

Hello. John Collins.

[John Collins]

We are reading through the Ten Commandments.

[Tim Mackie]

Yes, we are.

[John Collins]

And we actually started reading them proper last week.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. With command number one.

[John Collins]

Command number one, or part one of Command. Command number one.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, that's right.

[John Collins]

Depending how you look at it.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

So we're going to continue reading the Ten Commandments. Give us a little summary of the theme of the commands and then how we got to the 10 here in Exodus.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the 10 commands are some of the most famous verses in the Bible. I guess they fit that category of the most recognizable but not the most understood parts of the Bible. On one level, they're just 10 words from God of what humans should do or not do. Yeah. So in that sense, it feels straightforward, and it tends to feed into a perception that people have about the Bible as a divine rule book or behavior manual. So what we started with was looking at the theme of God telling people what to do in the Bible, which goes back to. In the Genesis scroll. The word command appears for the first time in the Garden of Eden story. Then it appears again in the story of Noah and the Flood. It appears again with reference to the story of Abraham. And then you get to the story of Israel at Mount Sinai with the commands, ten Commandments. So we looked at those first three stories, and what we found was this pattern that God's commands are first and foremost directing God's human partners about how to enjoy and discover life. God's commands are for life. Yeah. So the first command for life is Adam and Eve, enjoy all the trees of the gardens. Eat. Eat of all the trees of the garden. That's God's first command.

[John Collins]

That's a good one.

[Tim Mackie]

It's a great one. And then there's a second part to that command, which is prolong your life by not eating from the one tree that will kill you, but it looks like all the others. So you've got to trust my word and follow my command. So that sets the pattern. We looked at the story of Noah, who's a righteous man who follows God's commands, and it results in the preservation of life for his family and all the animals. And then we look to Abraham, whose partial obedience to God's commands, sometimes he does it, sometimes he doesn't. And it creates a lot of messes when he half obeys. But on his best days, he does trust God and do what God says. And so God looks back on the whole life of Abraham and lets those best days count for all of his days. And Abraham's described as somebody who kept God's command and statutes and laws and instructions. So when we get to the story of Israel at Mount Sinai, God has enlisted a family from the descendants of Abraham to be the vehicle of God, restoring the Eden blessing to all of the families of the earth if they will listen to God's voice and keep his covenant, which means doing what he says. And so all of those stories and the meaning of God's commands get uploaded in to God's commands to Israel. And the first ten words of God to Israel at Mount Sinai are the ten commands.

[John Collins]

By calling them words, you allow these to not just be a list of things to check off like a rule book, but more like 10 ways to think about what does it mean to find life.

[Tim Mackie]

Yes, ten ways that God has given us a pointer to embrace life and avoid death. I'll just throw this in here just because it's cool. It's something Moses says about God's commands in the book of Deuteronomy, but it's kind of actually a great summary point. It's near the end of his life and near the end of the Torah in Deuteronomy. And Moses puts it this way. Deuteronomy 30, 15, he says to the Israelites, look, I am setting before you life and the good, death and the bad. What I am commanding you today. There's the word. Same word from Garden of Eden, Tzava in the Hebrew. What I'm commanding you today is to love Yahweh, your God by going in his ways and keeping his commandments, his statutes, his regulations. And then you will have life. Pretty simple math equation. Love Yahweh, which means keep what he commands. You will have life, you'll become numerous. And Yahweh, your God will bless you in the land that you're going. Sounds like the Garden of Eden. Later on, in the paragraph verse 19, he says, I bring forward as a witness against y' all today, the skies and the land I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Choose life so that you can have life, you and your offspring, by loving Yahweh and listening to your voice clinging to him. This is rad, because he is your life, he is your length of days. Such a great way to summarize that

[John Collins]

God is your life.

[Tim Mackie]

God is life. Which rings true to the seven day creation narrative and the Eden story. God is the source of life. And so while God's commands will always, even if they don't feel like it or seem like it in the moment, point God's people towards embracing even more life than you're currently experiencing and avoiding the diminishment of your life, that is death. There you go.

[John Collins]

It's a great summary that actually also brings us into the first command.

[Tim Mackie]

Exactly.

[John Collins]

God is life.

[Tim Mackie]

Yes. He is your life.

[John Collins]

He is your life. And so worship God alone.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Or what's.

[John Collins]

How does the command say it?

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Now jumping right into the 10 commands.

[John Collins]

Yeah. Let's jump in.

[Tim Mackie]

Okay. I am Yahweh, your Elohim, the one who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. There will not be for you any other Elohim against my face before my face. Before me.

[John Collins]

Before me.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

I am yours.

[Tim Mackie]

I am your Elohim. Or in the words of Deuteronomy 30, I am your life. Yeah.

[John Collins]

So don't put anything else in front of me, beside me, against me, instead of me.

[Tim Mackie]

No thing else is your life.

[John Collins]

Nothing else can actually be your life.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

That's the first word.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, that's right. And in a way that reflects back to the Garden of Eden. God gives these trees as a gift. Right. Of the vehicle of life. But then there's that one tree that is said mysteriously to convey eternal life, the tree of life. And you're like, but only God has unending infinite life. But this tree becomes like this vehicle of that infinite life. So the tree isn't your life. God is your life. And right now, God's relating to you through the fruit of this tree. Yeah. So eat from that tree and don't eat from the other tree. That'll kill you anyway. God is your life.

[John Collins]

Yeah. In that sense, the fruit of the tree becomes life and nourishment for you. But what's really ultimate life in that situation, it's God. And then it's expressed through his word, his command that brings the true life.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. So not having any other Elohim means recognizing there are many other forms of life. Yeah. And in this case, there are other spiritual beings to which. Yeah.

[John Collins]

Powers.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Real powers at work in God's world, to which God created, to which God has delegated responsibility. Some of the primary ones, actually, we'll talk about them today. Were the lights in the sky have been viewed as some sort of transcendent, powerful being by most humans. For most of human history and for the biblical authors, they are really important delegates of God's power. But they are creatures, not creator. They are not your life. So, no, they are living beings.

[John Collins]

They are not your life.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. So that's the first command. Don't have any other Elohim before me. The second command just comes hot on the heels of number one. I mean, it's the next sentence. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Closely related. So right after. There will not be for you any other Elohim before me. You will not make for yourself an idol or any likeness of what is in the skies above or on the land beneath or in the waters underneath the land. You will not worship them. You will not serve them. Because I, Yahweh, your Elohim, am a passionate Elohim, visiting the iniquity of the fathers, on the children, to the threes and the fours for those who hate me, but showing loyal love to thousands for those who love me and keep my commands. So we're looking at my translation, and the opening words of the ten commands are, I am Yahweh, your Elohim. What's interesting is these two commands are bundled together. There will not be any other Elohim. You will not make for yourself an idol. So two negatives. Yeah. Then you get a list of what the idols might represent. Skies above land, beneath waters, under land. Then you get two more negatives. You will not worship them. You will not serve them. Then you get because I, Yahweh, your Elohim, and a passionate Elohim. And then you're back to this description of Yahweh Elohim, and you're like, oh, I'm looking at a symmetrical paragraph, I see. And at the center are three lines describing what idols might represent in the skies above the land, beneath the waters, under the land. It's what you call a symmetry or a chiasm. Yeah. So part of the reasoning for no other Elohim and no idols both comes at the beginning and the end. I'm Yahweh, your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Egypt. No other Elohim did that. But then also, Yahweh your Elohim is passionate, Kanah, and there are multi generational consequences for giving your allegiance to an Elohim other than Yahweh. What I want to do is actually put the discussion of the passion of God after we talk about idolatry a little more.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

But no other Elohim and no idols are closely bound together. We talked about no other Elohim and what having no other Elohim before me means in the Last conversation. So now we're talking about what is an idol, what's the significance of idols and why is it such a big deal? I think we should talk about that first. Might seem self evident to maybe different ones of us listening or thinking about it for different reasons. But why is this such a big deal in the Bible? Idolatry? It's a pretty big deal. It is one of the biggest deals.

[John Collins]

You could say it's the problem that keeps arising in Israel throughout the whole story.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. So what do these things mean in their ancient context that might help us think about what it means for us in our context? Okay, so first, little vocabulary lesson on idolatry in the Bible. The word used right here. Don't make for yourself a. And then the Hebrew words and noun pestle. Pestle, it is used a little over 30 times in the Hebrew Bible. It's a very common word. What's great is that this noun pestle has a verb attached which means to carve or to shape something.

[John Collins]

Okay, so it's the carved thing.

[Tim Mackie]

Pestle is the thing that you carved. Yeah, yep. And it can be referred to something you've chiseled out of stone or something that you've carved out of wood. So wood or stone. So a couple examples. Habakkuk in a little poem where he's making fun of people who trust their lives to idols. In Habakkuk 2:18, he says, what value is a pestle when its shaper is the one who pesoled it? Because the one who shaped his shaped object trusts in it. But it's an idol that can't talk.

[John Collins]

Yeah, you made it.

[Tim Mackie]

Why are you trusting in something that you made now? In a way, I trust in things that humans make all the time. In fact, I am right this moment

[John Collins]

you're talking about sitting in a chair.

[Tim Mackie]

I'm talking into this black cylinder object that I'm just trusting is doing its job, carries sound waves and converts it into ones and zeros in a computer. And then I'm just trusting it all works. So in that sense, it's fairly rational to trust in something that you made. But I guess it would be irrational for me to trust in this chair if my house is burning down. And to be like, chair, save me. Like, that's kind of more what Habakkuk's making fun of here. Save me. Oh, chair.

[John Collins]

Yeah, yeah. And this gets back to this idea of what gives you life or what can sustain life.

[Tim Mackie]

What really is the source of your

[John Collins]

life, and it's not something you can make.

[Tim Mackie]

So that's pestle.

[John Collins]

Okay. Is that the most common way to refer to eyeballs?

[Tim Mackie]

No, no. Actually, a lot of these get used a lot, and we're going to see they work.

[John Collins]

But this is the one that just showed up.

[Tim Mackie]

This is the one in the Ten Commandments. Pestle. Yep.

[John Collins]

The carved thing.

[Tim Mackie]

Carved thing. Another very common word is Maseka, used about 26 times in the Hebrew Bible. It's the thing poured out. It learned from the verb to pour out. So it's referring to molten metal that you pour into a mold.

[John Collins]

Okay, the molded thing.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, a molded thing. Yeah, yeah. It's usually translated as graven image.

[John Collins]

Oh, that's where we get graven.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. In the King James.

[John Collins]

Engraved.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. From engraved or molten, I guess. Molten.

[John Collins]

Yeah. Where does that word come from? Graven.

[Tim Mackie]

Graven, engraved. It's from, I'm sure, a Latin root for grave.

[John Collins]

So it's gotta mean shaped in some way.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Or molten, like poured out.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

And I just think of molten lava. The only time I use the word molten is talking about molten lava. I don't even use that word very often, so it's a great word. So in the story of the golden calf, the first idol in Israel's history.

[John Collins]

Oh, that's molten.

[Tim Mackie]

One molten. Because he takes. Aaron takes gold rings. We're told that he fashions them with a graving tool and makes it into a molten calf. So at some point, he melted it down. We're not told when he did that. We're just told what he does with the material after he's poured it into a mold and then begins to shape that.

[John Collins]

You gotta get really hot to, like.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, you need a hot fire to melt down metal.

[John Collins]

That's a special furnace.

[Tim Mackie]

Mm, yeah.

[John Collins]

That they constructed out there in the wilderness.

[Tim Mackie]

That's good point. How'd that work?

[John Collins]

Like, they were, like, real intent to figure this out.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe they heated it up so that it was moldable enough.

[John Collins]

If you're turning rings, that's your gold can get malleable.

[Tim Mackie]

Yes. Take 100 rings and get them into a form of a calf. You got to melt those things, so. Yeah, it's a good point. So a masekah, a molten image, or a graven image is associated with metalsmiths.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

Yep. Then here's some more general terms, but this one's important. The word selim, which comes from a verb, salam, which means to carve or to cut.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

So Ezekiel uses this word to describe carved images on, like, big walls, wall carvings, wall Engravings. Wall engravings. Yeah. Often called relief images, something like that. This is the word used to describe human beings on page one of Genesis. We'll come back to that.

[John Collins]

The image of God in Genesis 1.

[Tim Mackie]

Yep. So Selim is used about 15 times in the Hebrew Bible.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

The next two.

[John Collins]

I had no idea there were so many.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, the next two are very common. And they're both trash talk.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

They're both derogatory words that have an insult built into them.

[John Collins]

Love it.

[Tim Mackie]

So one is the Hebrew word elil, which is also a pun, because the first two letters of elil, or the word el, it's a shortened form of elohim, which means deity.

[John Collins]

Right.

[Tim Mackie]

So already you're taking the letters of the word God and then you're adding two more letters and you're making a. Like a joke out of it, because alleel means useless or worth nothing, related to a Semitic root from Akkadian ulalu, which is like a nothingness or a insult. And actually, you can use this word elil in Hebrew to describe many different things that are useless. So Job, once he realizes his three friends that presumably came to comfort him are just there to lecture him about God and his life, apparently they know more about his life than he does. So he calls them useless doctors who have come to a man who's sick. So he, in job 13, he calls them physicians or doctors of eliel, Doctors of nothing. No value, Valueless doctors.

[John Collins]

Okay. Yeah, it's fighting words, totally.

[Tim Mackie]

So back to Habakkuk 2. 18, when it's used to describe idols, he says, what value is a pestle when its carver has pestled it? A molten. There's maseka, a molten idol that teaches lies because the one who fashioned his creation trusts in it, even though it is a mute. Elil,

[John Collins]

a useless, voiceless, useless.

[Tim Mackie]

Can't talk. Why are you trusting something that doesn't even talk to save you? So this is used 20 times in the Hebrew Bible to refer to idols.

[John Collins]

And el aleem means it's plural.

[Tim Mackie]

El alim there is plural, and it sounds like elohim.

[John Collins]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. So that's first trash talk word for idols, which is just to call them useless.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

All right. Useless things.

[John Collins]

It's not a nice thing to say to someone.

[Tim Mackie]

Totally. This next one was my favorite because depending on how comfortable you are with profanity in the Bible.

[John Collins]

Oh, okay. Well, let's say I'm comfortable. Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

So the Hebrew word is gilul. It's used. It's actually the most common Word for idols in the Bible, it's used almost 50 times.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

Almost 40 of those times is in the book of Ezekiel. This is the prophet Ezekiel's favorite word to refer to idols.

[John Collins]

All right.

[Tim Mackie]

G essentially refers to turds or poop. Poop balls. Balls of poop balls. Fill in the profanity.

[John Collins]

I mean, rabbits have, like, poop balls.

[Tim Mackie]

Okay, well. Or rolls rolled up. Maybe cylinders, you know, I mean, poop has a cylinder shape. If it has.

[John Collins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

If you've got some form to it.

[John Collins]

Yeah. Why is it so funny you talk about poop?

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, it's like my kids. Okay, so what's also great is Ezekiel didn't invent this word, but this is a hybrid word. The consonants of gilul or G, L, L, or gimulam and lamed. And that comes from Hebrew verb galal, which means to roll something up, like a roll form, like cylinder or ball form. But the vowels of come from the Hebrew word shikuts.

[John Collins]

Wait, the vowels come from a different word?

[Tim Mackie]

Yes, the vowels. How do we know this? Well, because Ezekiel combines the two words regularly. Ah, okay, so shikuts means something. So he's making his own word, gross or disgusting. But this appears the first time in Leviticus.

[John Collins]

Okay, so this is a normal word that is kind of a combination of two words.

[Tim Mackie]

Yes. Yeah. So it's the vowels of the word for disgusting, and it's the consonants of the word for poop.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

Disgusting poop.

[John Collins]

What a wonderful word.

[Tim Mackie]

So we have the, like, hangry. Yeah, that's a hybrid word.

[John Collins]

Okay. Angry and hungry.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, it's the word hungry, but with the vowels of angry, with the consonants kind of, you know, mixed together. And we've invented a new word out of two separate words, but once you combine them, it's refers to something. You're like. Yeah, I get it.

[John Collins]

That word works so well.

[Tim Mackie]

Hangry.

[John Collins]

I don't know when it showed up in the English language, but maybe a decade ago, I feel like.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, yeah, maybe the last decade.

[John Collins]

And now it just feels so normal. Yes, everyone gets it.

[Tim Mackie]

I'm hangry.

[John Collins]

I'm hangry.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. So gilul is one of those words.

[John Collins]

Disgusting balls of poop, poop, poop balls.

[Tim Mackie]

Or create your own new translation in your mind. Totally. And actually, there are some times where galul actually does refer to human poop. Famously Ezekiel bread. In Ezekiel 4, Ezekiel's supposed to do this public synax where he's supposed to make this bread, make it on top of out of subpar ingredients that you have on hand if your flour mill is not working. Okay. And then he's told to cook it using dried human gilools as, like, the fuel for the fire. And then he's like, gross, I'm not gonna do that. And God says, okay, use galul from animals or cows, which is more normal.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

Lots of people use.

[John Collins]

Not to cook with. No.

[Tim Mackie]

But as fuel for fire.

[John Collins]

Oh, really?

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[John Collins]

People do that.

[Tim Mackie]

Cow pies. Dried cow pies.

[John Collins]

Oh, you can burn those.

[Tim Mackie]

Oh, yeah. Because just grass that's gone through a cow's digestive system.

[John Collins]

Never burnt one.

[Tim Mackie]

Burn it. Yeah. I think it's, like, really normal source of fuel in many cultures.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Anyway, galuil disgusting poop ball is.

[John Collins]

Is what Ezekiel likes to call idols, so that's pretty.

[Tim Mackie]

He is judging.

[John Collins]

It's very judgmental.

[Tim Mackie]

It's a judgy thing to say.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

But what Ezekiel is reflecting is his passion for the well being of his people. And Ezekiel is filled with a kind of frustration about watching the leaders of his people no longer give their allegiance to Yahweh, who is their life, but instead begin to attribute the rain and the crops and their safety and their well being to these statues that represent other Elohim. Yeah.

[John Collins]

I'm just trying to understand if Ezekiel came to my church service and preached, because toilet talk could sound really silly and childish, but there are turns of phrases that we have that are really cruel that refer to poop.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Yes.

[John Collins]

So on that spectrum, what's Ezekiel doing? Is he like, yeah, I guess it's playground potty talk. Or is it like. Like a real adult kind of dig?

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. My hunch is it would be the second category that we would kind of be a little shocked.

[John Collins]

We would be a little shocked.

[Tim Mackie]

Yep.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

And that's just because there would be

[John Collins]

some comment cards that Sunday.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. And that's just because there are multiple topics that Ezekiel addresses in his book, where he chooses words and images that you're kind of like, whoa, that's super intense.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

But also he's a refugee who was forcibly taken captive when an army invaded his city, killed people that he knows and loves, and hauled him off in chains into exile. He lives in a refugee camp. Right. That's his life experience. So he's not gonna have, like, a calm disposition as he thinks about the reasons for why something like that happened. He's full of intense emotion, and I think that's reflected in his poetry, and perhaps that's part of why he uses such a derogatory word. So these are our Words. So we've mostly just noticed that most of them refer to the physical process or shape of the idol carving, molded image, shaped or cut. And then these last two refer to a value judgment. Elil is useless. Gilul is disgusting waste.

[John Collins]

Disgusting waste.

[Tim Mackie]

Disgusting waste. Yeah. So this is the first of many times a command like this will be repeated. Idols are a big issue in the Bible because they were a big prominent feature of ancient cultural life and religion. Yeah. For most cultures, most of human history. So it gets repeated. The Ten Commandments is just the first of dozens.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

So right after there will not be for you any other Elohim before me. You will not make for yourself an idol. So what's interesting, you know, the first idol that is made in the story of the Bible that we know the shape of it is of a little cow, of a calf. And what's interesting is in terms of archaeology and what archaeology has surfaced in the land of Israel, Palestine, Egypt, ancient Babylon, little molten molded calves or bowls are one of the most common ancient statues that have been dug up from towns and villages throughout the ancient areas. So that's interesting. And if you think especially in cultures where animal domestication, cattle herding, breeding, raising was like, basically that and goats or sheep kind of your main thing, I guess if you're gonna choose between a symbol of power and fertility, having an idol of a goat or a sheep, a little less impressive than like an ox. Ox are a little more powerful.

[John Collins]

And a calf is a baby ox.

[Tim Mackie]

Calves is a baby ox. Yeah. So a symbol of power in its youngest form. Okay.

[John Collins]

That's what Israel makes in the wilderness. Golden calf.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

And that's. You're showing me a 12th century bronze bull from Samaria.

[Tim Mackie]

Samaria. Like from a northern Israelite town.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

Yep.

[John Collins]

And that would have been an idol. That's an idol.

[Tim Mackie]

Yep. That's right. Yep. So this is kind of well known. It was dug up in the region near what was the ancient Sumeria. And it's a bronze bull. This is almost certainly the very thing in the mind of the story of the golden.

[John Collins]

It doesn't seem very big.

[Tim Mackie]

No, these are pretty small.

[John Collins]

These are pretty small.

[Tim Mackie]

Yep.

[John Collins]

I guess I always imagine the one that Israel made as being pretty big. It could have been small.

[Tim Mackie]

It doesn't talk about its size.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

Doesn't refer to its size.

[John Collins]

All of a sudden now I'm like picturing, I'm just really scrapping together this tiny little silly golden calf.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

That's like a paperweight.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. These that we're looking at Images of are about the size of paperweights on your desk or something. Yeah.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, so that's bowls. So bulls were really common in the

[John Collins]

ancient near east because of power and fertility.

[Tim Mackie]

Well, cattle played many roles. One, they were a source of food, but also they were a source of productivity because you can pull plows, you can turn a whole field into a productive food producing field through the power of a cow. But it has these horns. Horns of an ox are symbols of power. And in biblical poetry, the raised horns of a wild ox are often symbols of victory. Victory and power.

[John Collins]

Can we take one step back?

[Tim Mackie]

Okay, yeah.

[John Collins]

Why choose an image of an animal at all?

[Tim Mackie]

Exactly. Yeah.

[John Collins]

I'm wrestling through why cow versus and then I'm like, what's the idea behind that's great.

[Tim Mackie]

So let's quick survey. Lots of animals become symbols of divine powers that work in the world in Egypt. And I've got some other images here. The falcon or the eagle are very common images of different deities. The eagle is the primary symbol for the sun, God of the sun in Egyptian religion. But you also have. Snakes are very common animal icons. Yeah, I mean we're here going into how ancient people imagined animals.

[John Collins]

Yeah, tell me about that.

[Tim Mackie]

Well, I probably should do a lot more reading and learning about it before I. But what do you know, say anything? Well, I think the idea is that animals are in this in between category between plants and humans. They're animate, they move around. They are more like humans than plants are like humans. They have a certain degree of intelligence, though pretty low. But not dolphins, not octopus or octopus. It's like super intelligent pigs. Pigs are actually semi intelligent.

[John Collins]

Yeah, no, I guess they're more intelligent than dogs.

[Tim Mackie]

Oh, well, that's probably. That's not very surprising. Yeah, dogs. So they're like us. And there's a conviction for the biblical authors especially that somehow humans are more like the divine realm than anything else. That human life and intelligence and rationality is something that connects us to what is above and beyond the earth and the animals. But also animals have this connection to the ground, to the plants. They're at home there in a way that humans don't feel like we are.

[John Collins]

Sure.

[Tim Mackie]

Well, they multiply like humans do. They have the power of generation within them. And also they provide for us, they do things for us. So I think there's probably more there. But because what deities are these other. Elohim are usually what we would call natural forces. The weather, fertility. And so animals are this like medium, this meeting place.

[John Collins]

How do I visualize forces of nature. Force of nature outside of me. That I think actually is a being.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Or power.

[John Collins]

Or a power. And the animals become the portfolio of creatures to think of them through. Okay, yeah, I think I get it enough.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Actually, here, real quick, one of my favorite Jewish commentators on Exodus, a deceased Hebrew Bible scholar, Nahla Sarna, from his Exodus commentary, he has this to say about the bull. So he says, throughout the ancient Eries, the bull was a symbol of lordship, leadership, strength, and fertility. It was either deified and worshiped or used as a representation of divinity. Often the bull or some other animal served as a pedestal on which a God stood. Actually, that's true often because you could ride a bull. People often did. Or ride a cow. And so the bull was often viewed as like, the chariot or the car. And so Aaron, it seems, was following a contemporary artistic convention in making a bull. So Sarna makes a case here that he thinks that Aaron intended it to be like, as a throne for Yahweh, whereas the people thought of it as like a representation of the deity. And it actually makes sense of a little detail in the story of the golden calf, because when he presents the golden calf to the people, the people say, these are your Elohim, Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. And then Aaron sees what's happening, Right. What the people are doing. And then he built an altar. And Aaron said, a feast for Yahweh tomorrow.

[John Collins]

So it almost seems like he tries to redirect it.

[Tim Mackie]

He's trying to redirect? Yeah. They think it's a representation of the divine powers that brought them out of Egypt. And Aaron's like, wait, no, that's what I meant. I meant that this is like Yahweh's bowl. So he tries to redirect it. Let's have a feast for Yahweh tomorrow. In which case both the first and second command are being called up here. Yeah. No other Elohim and no idols that represent Yahweh or any other Elohim.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

So I don't know if I've scratched where you're itching here.

[John Collins]

No, I think so. Maybe one more question related to just this ancient practice of idolatry. Okay. So if I'm an ancient, I live in a world where I perceive that there are. There are other worldly powers above and beyond invisible that influence me and have their own personality, and they can become happy with me, they can get frustrated with me. And so if the rain comes or doesn't come, or if There's a storm, or if there's a plague or if there's whatever. If I can have kids or not have kids. It's all about the emotions and the desires of these beings.

[Tim Mackie]

Yes.

[John Collins]

And so the very tangible way that I interact with them is through creating carvings and engraved kind of images that

[Tim Mackie]

represent them or that represent a thing in creation that is itself like an animate living symbol or representation of that transcendent power.

[John Collins]

So it becomes the thing by which now I have access to this other, greater thing.

[Tim Mackie]

Yes. Yeah.

[John Collins]

It is a medium.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, yeah. Such that that divine power presence was viewed to inhabit or be present within. Definitely becomes associated with or bound up with. So a real ox is itself, I think, in the view of ancient Canaanite, is filled with that divine, transcendent power of fertility. Okay. So I make a representation, an image of the ox, and that divine power humbles itself to take up residence, be associated with this statue of the thing. That's it. I think that's the basic idea. So why would the biblical authors think that this is a huge problem? So what's interesting is biblical authors just often make fun of idols like Habakkuk, like, why you made it. Why are you trusting in it to save your life? But what's underneath that? Okay, there's one passage in Deuteronomy 4 where you get the closest to, like, a reason why, and it's Moses retelling the story of what happened at Mount Sinai when Israel heard God speak the Ten Commandments. We talked about this a couple episodes ago, and he puts it this way. Deuteronomy 4:15. He says, so watch yourselves carefully because you all did not see any form. Uses the Hebrew word temunah, which means? Means like the physical outline or shape. You didn't see any form on the day that Yahweh spoke to you at Mount Horeb from the middle of the fire.

[John Collins]

So when Yahweh's voice was booming down from Mount Sinai, they didn't look up

[Tim Mackie]

and see a humanoid or any form or any. Actually. Yeah. Thank you. Any form. You didn't see any form. So watch yourselves so that you don't act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form. It uses the same word shape or form of any carved or shaped figure. The shape of a male or female human, the shape of any animal on the land, the shape of any winged bird up in the sky. The shape of any creeping thing on the ground, the shape of any fish in the water below the land. Like, oh, that's the whole view of the cosmos from Genesis 1. So no human on the land, no animal on the land, no bird in the sky, no creeper on the ground or fish in the water. Also, watch yourselves so that you don't lift your eyes up to the skies and see the sun or the moon and the stars, the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship and serve them. These are the ones that Yahweh, your Elohim, has assigned or allotted to all the peoples under the whole of the sky. But Yahweh has taken you all and brought you all out of the iron furnace from Egypt to be a people of his own possession, like you are today. So there's a few reasons here. One of them's on the surface. The other one is a little under the surface. And I think they're both equally powerful in terms of the reasons for not making idols.

[John Collins]

So, okay, yeah. You didn't see God in any form. And you're gonna have this impulse to try to create a form of God that's just normal in your culture. But there's something dangerous, misguided about trying to create a form to contain Yahweh God.

[Tim Mackie]

There you go. There you go. Contain. Notice you drew on that metaphor there. Sure. Right. But I like it. I like where you're going there. Because the moment you take any thing that's beyond what you can imagine.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

The moment you create an image in your mind of it, you are already limiting and containing it because you're reducing it to something you've experienced. I've experienced an ox.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

I've experienced a sheep or a cow. But say I'm an ancient person. What is a lightning storm really? What is a rainstorm? I actually have no clue.

[John Collins]

No clue as an agent.

[Tim Mackie]

But I might imagine it and try and reduce it. Anytime you imagine it, you're reducing it.

[John Collins]

Got it.

[Tim Mackie]

And I think that's the dynamic that we're trying to avoid.

[John Collins]

What's so fascinating is it's easy to think of idolatry as replacing Yahweh instead of just reducing Yahweh.

[Tim Mackie]

Reducing.

[Sarah or Tasha]

Okay, good.

[John Collins]

Reducing. Right. That's a great distinction, because what you were showing that perhaps Aaron, his intention wasn't to replace Yahweh, but all of a sudden he realized this is getting out of hand and people are missing the point and they are replacing Yahweh. He was just trying to contain or kind of give shape to the people who are kind of like, tell us how we can trust and get access to Yahweh. The mountain's actually kind of scary.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, mountain's scary. We don't want to go up there.

[John Collins]

And so there is an impulse to try to actually access the creator of life, but to do it in a way that begins to minimize and reduce and contain.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So the moment you image Yahweh by something in your mind first, and then give a physical expression to that by something you make, you are reducing the incomprehensible, transcendent reality. We're back to a gigantic step forward in the human imagination of God. Because many ancient Near Eastern cultures believed there was a chief deity. And that the mystery of how the chief gods work and what they do, that. That's beyond human understanding. But this is a step to say, but now actually the one who is. Remember, Yahweh means the one who is. There is just one source of all reality, and that one who is is so above and beyond our imagining, it actually becomes outlawed to try and imagine.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

That one in the technical sense of image. Image that one in your mind or to give physical expression.

[John Collins]

I think there's more to understand there. But if I could. Can we pivot then? Because all of a sudden he starts talking about the stars in the sky.

[Tim Mackie]

Right? Yeah.

[John Collins]

So don't image Yahweh. Don't reduce Yahweh to any form. Okay. There's more there to explore. But then he says, and don't lift up your eyes to the skies and look at the sun and the moon, the stars, the host of heaven, and serve them or worship them.

[Tim Mackie]

That's not Yahweh either.

[John Collins]

That's not Yahweh either.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. And so here we're back to. We're meditating on an important idea from the seven day creation narrative that on days four and six, God makes two categories of rulers. The word rule and have authority is used two times in the seven day creation narrative. The first rulers are the rulers of the sky. And it's exactly these three. The sun, the moon, and the stars rule the sky. And they are called OT in Hebrew, signs or symbols, an image. They are creatures that actually do reflect something really important about the One who is. But they are not the one who is. They are a sign of the One who is.

[John Collins]

And God allotted to the peoples under heaven, the stars.

[Tim Mackie]

That's a whole other.

[John Collins]

And that's a rabble.

[Tim Mackie]

Rabble we don't have time for. So you have this hint to the rulers above, or maybe not a hint, just a reference to them. Yeah. You also have here another hint to the seven day creation narrative to the rulers below. It's very subtle, but notice what Moses says here is in verse 20, we read, the Lord has taken you all, the Israelites and brought you all out of the iron furnace, referring to Egypt. That is Egypt. Yeah. So there's just about three or four times that Egypt is described as a furnace for melting down metal. And this I think is a very subtle reference to the fact that Israel is to imagine themselves as the molten image of God. The actual molten image of God. You yourselves are the image that God has made.

[John Collins]

You're saying with this phrase, taking you out of the iron furnace is a subtle way to say, guys, you're the image.

[Tim Mackie]

You are the image. That's right, I formed you. It's referring to the process melting down metal to form a statue. So you shouldn't make an image of God because you will reduce the transcendence, the mystery, the reality of God in the very act of imaging. But actually, years ago we made a video where we put this into a little line. Humans shouldn't make images of God because God already made an image of himself. And that is, that is humans. Humans.

[John Collins]

And it's not a statue of humans, it's just humans.

[Tim Mackie]

The living, breathing.

[John Collins]

The living, breathing humans are God's image. If you want to find a connection to Yahweh God, it's other humans.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Collins]

That's pretty profound.

[Tim Mackie]

It's very profound. And now we're back to really the theme of the image of God. Yeah. And so we just reference podcast series and discussions there. But if you want the closest representation and still just a representation, a reduction,

[John Collins]

but the one that you can use,

[Tim Mackie]

image that will get you there, that will get you closer than anything else than heaven on Earth. Look into the eyes of your neighbor, your co worker, your family member, and you will see a reflection of the mystery and purpose of God that you will never encounter in a bronze bowl.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

Or a statue of an eagle, or a statue of human or anything that we can make. Yeah. Because another human is a being with whom you can relate to. A being that has a mind and heart and desires and that requires mutuality, reciprocity and love to relate to. And that experience of having to accommodate and learn to know an other is the most like what it is to encounter God than anything else. There's a great mystery there that's wild. But that I think is what's under the claim here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why would you make an image when you yourself in the mystery of your existence and living with other humans is the most brilliant image you could ever encounter. Why would you relate to a statue? Why would you want that? That's going to just distort your view of everything, including yourself. Distort your view of yourself.

[John Collins]

This is another example of a huge leap forward in thought, then.

[Tim Mackie]

Yes. And that every human.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

Male and female, male and female, rich or poor, slave or free, every human is an image of God. It's core to the claim of Genesis 1 and the biblical story. And that was a radical, innovative contribution to the history of human thought. Sam.

[John Collins]

So idolatry now, I'm realizing, has two very different problems. One is when I usually think of idolatry, I think of replacing God. I think of making an object, giving it divine authority in my life, and so neglecting Yahweh as life. And that's what the choice between BAAL or. Or Yahweh kind of represents. Like, which God? But what seems to be kind of more the focus here potentially, or at least equally, is not trying to replace Yahweh, but just reducing Yahweh. Is this impulse to say, I want to understand Yahweh, I want to do it in a way that feels safe and controllable. The mountain's scary, so let me create a vehicle to do that that kind of simplifies or domesticates or reduces, and that is also really dangerous. And so both of those are a form of idolatry, right?

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Yes. Got it. Yeah.

[John Collins]

Does that make sense?

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. So let me add one more to those two, which I thought was going to be the second of your two. So it is both reducing Yahweh, the mystery of the one who is reducing it to something I can imagine and then handle and deal with and manipulate. Sort of like it's God's way of saying humans don't get to determine who God is when they relate to God just based on their limited life experience and imagination. Who God is really will always supersede and transcend our imagination. And so it's an insult to God and it's not true to reality, but at the same time, it's an insult to our own dignity. To treat a created thing as an embodiment of the divine is to ignore the biblical claim, at least, that you are yourself, the closest image of the divine mystery, the most tangible, Most tangible

[John Collins]

expression of who God is.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

That you can have access to.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, totally.

[John Collins]

Is you and your neighbors.

[Tim Mackie]

Yes.

[John Collins]

And your enemies.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, that's right.

[John Collins]

So whether you are reducing or Replacing there's this third problem, which is missing out on something that seems pretty important, which is the role and the purpose of humanity.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, yeah. And maybe this goes to the difference between humans and animals. Humans are invited in the biblical story and in our life experience, like, humans have this ability to transcend nature and natural impulse and to discern what is good and to discern between good and bad. And actually, that was the educational program God was inviting humans into right in the garden, which is to trust God's command and that. That will lead us to know good from bad. And then so remarkable humans can look out at a situation and have some sense of what is good and then act in ways that live up to that good. So it's good for me to live and have food. Every animal wants food, but man, you know, what is also good is to withhold food from myself so I can give that food to others as a sheer act of love. And then you might say, well, that's tribal good, because it'll help your group survive. But what about, like, right, instances where you want to do love and do good and you withhold from yourself in radical ways that you truly diminish your own life? And these are debates about altruism and other forms of altruism in nature. But it is remarkable that humans have this ability to say, you know, what's good actually is what's bad for me to do good to another. And you're transcending nature at that point to pursue the true and the good and the beautiful that's not reducible to the laws of nature. So I think the biblical authors saw that, and they know this is part of the human experience. And that that good points to the author and the source of all good. And then in that sense, we become images of divine good and that humans are the unique vehicle of the way divine goodness is present in our world. We are the image, the closest image. And when humans forget that, when we violate that, it tends to dehumanize us and our communities.

[John Collins]

You've talked about each of these commands, these words we can flip. So there's the do not, and then there's the flip. And then in the flip, you get much kind of bigger universe to explore. Yeah, don't create an image. Yeah, flip it. You're the image.

[Tim Mackie]

Be the image.

[John Collins]

Be the image.

[Tim Mackie]

Be a faithful image of God by how you live in the world, relate to your neighbor, relate to creation, and how you relate to God. Be the image. Don't make an image. Rather be the image, which is Pretty darn open ended. Yeah, that's like takes the whole human life to figure out and even longer. Yeah.

[John Collins]

And so these two work together. I'm Yahweh Elohim. I am the Creator God. I rescued you from Egypt. I rescued you out of slavery. Don't have any other Elohim before me. I am your life. I am yours. I am life. And so very closely connected to that. Then if we're going to make Yahweh life, when we think that there is this good and this beauty that we can find beyond ourselves, that is true life, what we're looking for is Yahweh. But how does it actually kind of, what's our tangible, like expression of that? How do we do that?

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, well, I guess Jesus made it pretty simple by following a tradition of Israelite teachers in his day, which is to say love, love, love, love God. Which means loving your neighbor as you love yourself. Because the one who is is love.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim Mackie]

Or God is love.

[John Collins]

I am and I am love.

[Tim Mackie]

What I am is love. Yeah.

[John Collins]

So don't put anything before that. And then what does that look like then lived out? It means to love each other.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah. The moment a river is treated as the one who is, what typically happens in the arc of human history is that the value and dignity of human life gets reduced to become a servant to these forces that we think determine our destiny. And so we might think it's primitive form, ancient, like child sacrifice, you know, to the gods. But I guess here would be more modern forms of self or communal sacrifice where we sacrifice our well being. We sacrifice other people's well beings or their lives in the service of some ideal or power or good. And that's the same dynamic the biblical authors are trying to say. Isn't it interesting that when humans serve idols or make idols that they tend to start reducing their lives, harming themselves, other people, killing each other. But when you channel the right honor all the way up the chain to the one who is love, that will compel humans to be an image in God in a very different kind of way.

[John Collins]

Compel humans to image God in a different type of way.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah. If what you believe is that love is reality, that's what reality is, is other centered, outgoing love. You elevate others and prioritize their well being. Which is by the way, what the word, passionate or jealous. I am a jealous Elohim. What God means is I am passionate for the well being of my creation. And anything that harms or reduces It. Yahweh's on a mission to get rid of that. But those who are in tune with loyal love, God's loyal love displayed through creation. For those who love me and keep my commands, then there you go. That's the stuff of what reality is about.

[John Collins]

And the way we do that in Jesus words is by loving each other.

[Tim Mackie]

Love, love your fellow images. Yeah, yeah.

[John Collins]

And then we didn't talk about this last six lines, but you did call out there's generational consequences for not living this way.

[Tim Mackie]

Yeah, actually. Yep. So it's these verses 5 and 6, the 10 commandments, Exodus 20, maybe. We actually have talked about these lines in depth in our Character of God series years ago. So maybe let's make sure we cross reference that in the show. Notes about. What does it mean that God visits the iniquity of fathers on children, the threes and the fours. What does that mean? We've covered that ground. But what it means, in essence, is that God will allow people to make their bed and sleep in it over the course of many generations. And if that means.

[John Collins]

And threes and fours is a turn of phrase.

[Tim Mackie]

Right. Threes and fours means generations, and it means however many generations.

[John Collins]

Yeah. Three or four is kind of a Hebrew way of saying however many it takes.

[Tim Mackie]

Yep, that's right. But for those who love God and keep his commands, there will be a reciprocity of infinite generations, thousands of generations, which is basically saying uncountable. Uncountable. Like, that's the kind of loyal love from God that's reciprocated by love from humans and honoring God's commands. There. Now we're talking about the stuff of what creation is all about. And that will never end because that creates a world of infinite possibility and ongoing potential, which is what the one who is is really into, is sharing life and inviting others to share in God's own life.

[John Collins]

That's it for today's podcast. Next week, we move on to the third word in the Ten Commandments. And you'll recognize it by the translation. Don't take the Lord's name in vain.

[Tim Mackie]

You might say misusing God's name in your speech is one way you could misrepresent God. But it seems like carrying the name is bigger because it refers to your behavior. Stealing, deceiving, lying, swearing falsely in my name is a way to mistreat the name of God.

[John Collins]

Bibleproject is a crowdfunded nonprofit, and we exist to help people experience the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus. Everything that we make is free because of the generous support of thousands of people just like you. Thank you so much for being a part of this with us.

[Sarah or Tasha]

Hi, my name is Sarah. And my name is Tasha and we're from Battleground Washington. I first heard about the Bible Project through church. One of my favorite things about the Bible Project is how approachable it is when it comes to learning of the Bible. My favorite thing about the Bible Project is that you can learn the Bible without being a scholar. We believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus. The Bible Project is a nonprofit funded by people like me. Find free videos, articles, podcasts, classes and more on the BibleProject app [e-mail] hi, my name is Jessica. I've been working at BibleProject for 10 months and I'm a motion designer here. I help all of the animations you see on our social media videos. I think my favorite thing about working here is the people, everyone on staff, everyone who comes and tours the office. It's a very welcoming and beautiful place to work. There's a whole team of people here at Babel Podet to make the podcast happen. To see a full list of everyone involved, check out the show credits at the end of the episode. Everywhere you stream the podcast and on our website, See ya.

[Tim Mackie]

Sa.