6th Commandment: Do Not Kill

Summary

BibleProject Podcast: "6th Commandment: Do Not Kill"

Episode Date: May 18, 2026
Hosts: John Collins and Tim Mackie

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the BibleProject's deep-dive series on the Ten Commandments, focusing on the 6th commandment: "Do not kill." The hosts examine the commandment’s meaning in its biblical Hebrew context, explore its implications, and wrestle with its wisdom in both ancient and modern contexts. Central questions include: What does it mean to "kill" versus "murder"? Why does God value life so highly? How do biblical laws around animal life and capital punishment reflect this value? The discussion traces themes from Genesis through the Torah's legal codes, inviting listeners to meditate on the profound value of life according to the Bible.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Transition in the Ten Commandments – Relationship with Others

• [00:05] John introduces the split in the commandments: the first five regarding God, the last five (starting here) concerning relationships with others.
• The 6th commandment, traditionally rendered as "do not murder," is more complex in the original Hebrew.

2. The Hebrew Word "Ratzach": Kill or Murder?

• [00:37, 04:23–06:05]
  • Tim explains "ratzach" as a broader term than “murder,” sometimes covering accidental killing (manslaughter) as well as premeditated acts.
  • English translations vary: most modern versions use "murder," but the King James Version says "kill.”
  • Key quote:
    • Tim: “Our English word 'kill' is probably the best. It overlaps the most.” [00:37; 15:01]
• Nuances:
  • “Murder” is limited to humans, implies unlawfulness and intent; “kill” is more neutral, can include accidents and animals.
  • Ratzach in biblical usage only ever applies to human life, not animals (unlike “kill” in English).

3. Ratzach in Biblical Context

• [09:25–19:57]
  • Other Hebrew verbs for ending life:
    • "Harag" (used for Cain killing Abel) relates more closely to murder.
    • "Moot" means to die; "hemite" means to cause to die (can refer to approved or unapproved killing).
  • Tim walks through Numbers 35, showing “ratzach” covers both intentional and accidental killing, as well as being framed for capital punishment.
    • Quote:
      • John: “When I think of do not murder, I guess I don’t think of the example of the person who unintentionally did manslaughter.” [15:57]

4. The Purpose of the Prohibition – Meditation Literature

• [19:57–24:30]
  • The commandment as a “blanket prohibition,” forcing meditation on the value of life, beyond legal checklists.
  • The Torah’s “case law” expands and qualifies the command, but the two-word original (“do not kill”) is intentionally broad.
  • Tim calls it “wisdom literature”—designed to spark reflection on what it means to honor the value of any human life.

5. The Value of Life: Genesis Framework

• [25:13–35:50]
  • Genesis 1-2: God is the sole originator and giver of life, bestows oversight of life to humans as His “image.”
  • Genesis 4: Cain and Abel—first human death is murder; God holds Cain accountable, Abel’s “blood cries out from the ground.”
    • Key quote:
      • Tim: “You just broke the cosmos… Life is a precious gift from God. The blood represents the life, the blood is the life.” [32:41]
  • Following Cain, violence becomes normalized—loss of life trivialized by honor/shame dynamics (e.g., Lamech).
    • John: “Life is a battlefield at this point.” [34:45]

6. Biblical Food Laws: Extreme Valuing of All Life

• [36:02–44:01]
  • After the flood (Genesis 9), God allows humans to eat animals but forbids consumption of blood—the blood is the “life.”
  • Kosher laws require blood to be returned to the ground, forcing recognition that “this life isn’t yours.”
    • Key quote:
      • Tim: “Every time you take the life of an animal and want to eat it, I want you to go through a ritual, a process that will remind you that actually this life isn’t yours, it’s God’s.” [44:16]
    • John: “Humans aren’t supposed to be the ones who can just decide when life ends for something else.” [43:52]

7. The Paradox of Capital Punishment

• [44:48–53:34]
  • Genesis 9: human life is so sacred that “whoever sheds blood, by humans their blood shall be shed.”
  • Capital punishment upholds life by its severity, yet perpetuates the cycle of violence—creates an “infinity loop” or paradox.
    • Tim, citing Patrick Miller: “The rule of God over life is so clear and the value of life is so high that nothing except a human life can compensate for it. But…the community…is always at risk of violating the…sacred value of life.” [47:19–49:30]
    • Tim: “It’s almost like an impossible scenario—human life is so valuable, humans should never take a life. But to enforce that very point, capital punishment is allowed for here…but it defeats itself.” [46:22]
  • The biblical narrative is driven forward by this tension—who will break the cycle? (Implied: Jesus as the ultimate solution.)

8. The Unsettling Weight of the Command

• [51:31–55:02]
  • John and Tim step back to consider the radical seriousness of the biblical valuing of all life—animal and human.
    • John: “I feel like I just need to stop and, like…go for a long walk…It’s getting in our face saying, ‘this is how important life is.’” [51:35–51:55]
  • Tim: “Even animal life—take that really, really seriously…We've just ramped up the value of life, like, as high as we could go.” [51:54]
  • When a life is taken “cosmically violating,” yet enforcing justice re-enters you into the same paradox.
    • John: “Man, be careful…that’s a dangerous game to play.” [53:13]

9. Applying the Wisdom – Living Toward Life

• [56:01–57:49]
  • The command’s purpose: to orient all moral reasoning and community life toward the preservation and flourishing of life.
    • Tim: “You know that you are close to the heart of God and the purpose of God if your actions are aimed at preserving and making life flourish.” [56:01]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Command’s Scope:
  • Tim: “It's rhetoric, a rhetorical overstatement that forces you to start thinking.” [21:10]
• On Human Limitations:
  • John: “Humans aren’t supposed to be the ones who can just decide when life ends for something else.” [43:52]
• On the Ethical Paradox:
  • Tim: “It’s almost like an impossible scenario…To enforce the value of life, we must take life, and so the cycle continues.” [46:22]
• On the Value of Life:
  • Tim: “Life is a precious gift from God. The blood represents the life, the blood is the life.” [32:41]
• On the Purpose of God’s Commands:
  • Tim: “The purpose of God's commands is for life. And the sixth command here makes that perfectly clear…you are close to the heart of God…if your actions are aimed at preserving and making life flourish.” [56:01]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:05 – Introduction to the 6th commandment and overview of the episode's main question.
• 04:23–06:05 – Discussion of Hebrew wording and translation challenges (“kill” vs “murder”).
• 09:25–19:57 – Survey of Hebrew terms for killing, and exploration of “ratzach” in legal contexts.
• 24:30 – The commandment as wisdom/meditation literature—its purpose in sparking deeper thought.
• 25:13–35:50 – Tracing the value of life through Genesis: God as giver, Cain and Abel, the legacy of violence.
• 36:02–44:01 – The kosher laws and the value of animal life.
• 44:48–53:34 – Inherent paradoxes in capital punishment and communal justice.
• 51:31–55:02 – The hosts reflect on life’s overwhelming value and the riddle this presents.
• 56:01–57:49 – Conclusion: directing all wisdom and moral energy toward the flourishing of life.

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Conclusion

This episode invites listeners to linger in the tension of the 6th commandment’s radical demand: a reverence for life so profound that it complicates rather than resolves questions of justice, violence, and daily living. Rather than providing easy answers about when violence might be justified, the BibleProject team urges listeners to see the command as a starting point for lifelong meditation on the sanctity of all life—animal and human alike—and as an invitation to direct our best wisdom toward its preservation and flourishing.

Transcript

[John Collins]

We're in a series exploring the ten Commandments, and we're doing them one by one. And we've just finished the first five, which are all about how we relate to God. Today we'll move on to the last five, which are all about how we relate to others. We'll begin with command number six, don't murder. Or, as Tim will want us to translate it, don't kill. The Hebrew word is rasach, which can be premeditated, but it could also refer to just accidentally killing someone. What we would call manslaughter.

[Tim]

It's a pretty broad word, so I think our English word kill is probably the best. It overlaps the most.

[John Collins]

So don't kill. I mean, of course murder's wrong, but aren't there times when killing, even though sad and unfortunate, is the right thing to do?

[Tim]

This is a great example of the Bible's meditation literature. You hear, don't kill. There's something intuitive. You're like, yeah, that sounds about right. But then you start thinking, well, what about self defense? What about protecting someone else? And the biblical authors have already beaten you to the punch. This is going to lead us on a trail that, of course, is going to lead us back to Genesis 1 through 9.

[John Collins]

The sixth command is a blanket prohibition. Don't end a life. Because life is of ultimate value in

[Tim]

the Bible, God is the originator and the giver of life. He fills the world with living creatures. Then God shares that responsibility to care for life, oversee it with human image.

[John Collins]

Today we'll look at the first death in the Bible, which is a murder. Cain becomes jealous of his brother Abel and ends his life. God confronts Cain and tells him that the blood of his brother is crying out from the ground.

[Tim]

Something cosmic has happened. Human life is an image of God, and it's so precious and valuable that you're causing a rupture in the cosmos to take a human life in an unauthorized way. It's not yours to take.

[John Collins]

We'll also look at how kosher food laws are connected to a deep respect of the life of animals.

[Tim]

You can take the life of an animal to eat its flesh, but not its blood. You gotta pour that blood back on the ground. There's this extreme valuing of life. Every time you take the life of an animal and want to eat it, I want you to go through a process that will remind you this life isn't yours.

[John Collins]

And we'll look at the inherent paradox of capital punishment in the Bible.

[Tim]

Capital punishment allowed for here, but even capital punishment sets in motion a Cycle of violence, like an impossible crisis that drives the biblical story forward. And all of that is the rhetoric of the sixth command.

[John Collins]

Don't kill.

[Tim]

The purpose of God's commands is for life. And the sixth command here makes that perfectly clear, that the best of our thinking, the best of our energies, our greatest wisdom and moral conviction is most aligned with God when we aim all of that at the preservation and the flourishing of life.

[John Collins]

Today, Tim and I wrestle with the wisdom of the sixth command. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Hey, Tim.

[Tim]

Hello, John Collins.

[John Collins]

We're in the Ten Commandments.

[Tim]

That is what we are doing.

[John Collins]

And today we. We move into. What are we? 5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Fifth command.

[Tim]

We are doing command six. Whoa, we're in six and seven.

[John Collins]

Losing track.

[Tim]

Yeah. And actually, six, seven, eight are the ones that are most easy to remember from the ten Commandments. Don't kill. Don't commit adultery. Don't steal.

[John Collins]

Yeah. You said these are two words in Hebrew Each.

[Tim]

Each of them is two words in Hebrew. Lo is the Hebrew word for not or no. And then it's just the single verb. Lotir, tsach, lotin, aaf, lotignoth.

[John Collins]

No murder. No. Adultery. No.

[Tim]

No stealing.

[John Collins]

Stealing.

[Tim]

No thieving.

[John Collins]

No thieving.

[Tim]

Yeah. These three commands, 6, 7, 8, are the shortest. And it's a little triad. So we're gonna take them in turn, one by one. We're gonna dive into, you will not kill. And even with that translation right there, I've already made a bunch of decisions that we're gonna have to talk about.

[John Collins]

Okay. By using the word kill.

[Tim]

By using the word kill instead of murder. So just a great example of the Bible as meditation literature. It says one thing, then you start to ask questions of it, and you think you're being, like, skeptical or innovative. What about this? What about that?

[John Collins]

The. What about this? What about that? Is that the classic, like, what if you're at war? What if you're.

[Tim]

What about self defense? What about protecting someone else? What about unintentional killing? What about accidents? When you hear don't kill, there's something intuitive. You're like, yeah, that sounds about right. Don't do that. But then you start thinking, well, what about in this situation? And the biblical authors have already beaten you to the punch. This is going to lead us on a trail that, of course, as always, is going to lead us back to Genesis 1 through, actually 9. 1 through 9. This is so rad. They anticipated all of your questions by addressing them already in the first nine pages of Genesis. The sixth command Lot don't kill is just the opening of a door into a large, well designed museum tour through the really complex set of issues around the value of a human life. It's really what we're supposed to. What we're invited to meditate on here is what is the value of a human life and why? Why is a human life valuable the way that it is? And how should we respond to that value? There you go.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

These are the things we will meditate on. But first, how do you render Lotir tzach in English into English? Let's start there. Okay. So just a quick survey of contemporary English translations will show an interesting pattern. Almost all of our contemporary English translations render this sixth command as you shall not or thou shalt not. Murder. Murder. Murder. New International Version, English Standard Version, New American Standard, New Revised Version, Christian Standard Bible. It's just really all the way across. But there's one outlier, one outlier, which is the good old King James. King James went a different route, going all the way back, like, many centuries, which translates it, thou shalt not kill. So before I tell you what I think is the difference between those two,

[John Collins]

between killing and murdering.

[Tim]

Yeah. Because I've given a lot of thought to it, but I'm just curious, like, coming in. Coming in cold. When you hear those two English words, murder versus kill, how would you describe the difference between them?

[John Collins]

Hmm. I think that killing is the more general, making something cease to be alive.

[Tim]

Yeah, yeah, super general.

[John Collins]

Murder has the same baseline. You're ceasing something to remain alive. But murder has a connotation to it of. And you shouldn't have done it.

[Tim]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Collins]

Because it's okay to kill your lawn if you want to plant new lawn.

[Tim]

Yeah, sure, Right. Or like, dig a French drain in your yard. You're gonna have to kill some grass digging it up to get some drainage going.

[John Collins]

It's okay to kill some bacteria in your gut if you don't want it there, I guess.

[Tim]

So you're saying kill is a little more neutral or.

[John Collins]

Well, yeah, maybe it's more neutral. I mean, it always feels intense. Killing is

[Tim]

intensity to it. You're ending the biological vitality, life of something.

[John Collins]

Yeah, but it leaves open of whether or not it was allowable or whether

[Tim]

or not it was okay.

[John Collins]

Yeah. Murder is saying you didn't have the right to take that life.

[Tim]

Yeah, sure, sure. So we have kill, murder, slay. So I think slaughter comes from slay.

[John Collins]

Yeah. I think manslaughter feels kind of similar to kill to me.

[Tim]

Okay. Yeah.

[John Collins]

In A way.

[Tim]

Yeah. Right.

[John Collins]

Yeah, you kill them.

[Tim]

Yeah. So it's interesting. Kill can refer to taking human life and any other kind of life. Animal life, plant life. Yeah, Murder is reserved for humans.

[John Collins]

Murder is reserved for humans.

[Tim]

And I think slay or slaughter.

[John Collins]

You don't murder your lawn.

[Tim]

Oh, but slaughter can be for animals or humans. Yeah, but you wouldn't say you slaughtered the plant.

[John Collins]

No, you don't slaughter plants.

[Tim]

So you kill humans, animals or grass. Murder is only for humans. And then slay or slaughter is for animals and humans, but not plants. Yeah, we're just kind of creating. We can make a little Venn diagram right now of like meaning and overlapping meanings.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

So there's a variety of words in biblical Hebrew for the taking of life.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

And they all, as you might imagine, have different nuances. Right. So the one used in the Cain and Abel story, introduced there is harag. Harag. Cain harags, Cain harags his brother. Harag is used 160 times in the Hebrew Bible. That comes probably closest to our English definition of murder. So it's unauthorized taking of a life, harag. Oh. So the verb to die, which means the ending of a life but just on its own is moot. But then you can make that verb causative and say make something die, we might say put to death, cause the death. And that's instead of mut, which means to die. Hey, meat means to cause the death of somebody. To cause the death is a fairly good way to put it in English because this can refer to murder. Sometimes it can refer to accidental death. It can also refer to authorized death, like capital punishment. And that phrase appears 200 times. So the one used here is ratzach. In the basic form, ratzach, it appears about 46 times in the Hebrew Bible, whereas other verbs for the taking of human life occur way more often. And so the question is, what does ratzach mean? Okay, so let's look at some examples here. First, thinking back to our leven diagram, in English, ratzach only ever refers to the taking of a human life, not animals. So in that sense it's not like kill in English or slaughter. Or slaughter. Yeah, yep. Ratzach can describe premeditated murder. So a well known story of premeditated murder in the Hebrew Bible is when Ahab sees that this guy who owns some ancestral property right next to his like palace, guy named Navot, has this really nice vineyard. This is in First Kings, chapter 21. And so with the help of Ahab's wife Jezebel, they scheme up this plan to get false witnesses to accuse this guy of cursing the name of God. This is First Kings 21. Actually, the whole story is actually working with the Ten Commandments in all these interesting ways. But the word ratsach is used in that story to describe when Ahab took the life of this guy Navot to get his land. But what's interesting is he actually hired two guys to accuse Navoth of cursing God's name. And then once he's found guilty of that by the mouth of two witnesses, then they execute him, then they put him to death.

[John Collins]

Okay, but the word used is ratzach.

[Tim]

And then a prophet goes to meet Ahab and says, you ratsacht this guy.

[John Collins]

Okay, that's what the prophet says.

[Tim]

Yeah, so it's really interesting. Like, it happens by someone else's hand, but yet it's Ahab that's accused of doing the ratzach. So clearly meditated even though he didn't do it. Yeah, so that's interesting. So you can use ratzach to refer to that. Here's another example. Almost half of the times that ratzach appears occurs in a very specific place and context. Talking about the cities of refuge, where somebody who's killed another person can take refuge. In numbers, chapter 35, Joshua, chapters 2021, half of the occurrences of this word occur in those two places in the Hebrew Bible. So these are six cities in ancient Israel that were set apart as, like, an asylum type of city. And anybody who has taken the life of another person can run there and be protected until, like, an actual judicial process and a hearing can go through fair trial. That's the basic idea.

[John Collins]

Our version of I want to call my lawyer.

[Tim]

Yeah, that's right. And this is where you flee, because the family member. Right. Of the person that just died, he's

[John Collins]

going to exact revenge, is going to

[Tim]

come in hot and looking for revenge. So these cities are selected in numbers 35, 11. So that a rotzeach, which is the noun form of ratzach, the killer who has struck a person unintentionally can flee there.

[John Collins]

Yeah, because the point of this place is that it might be that you didn't mean to and maybe you shouldn't be put to death. Or it could be that you were framed or something. And so it wasn't a premeditated murder.

[Tim]

Yeah. So ratzach can refer to accidental taking of a life. It can refer to framing someone that ends in them dying under capital punishment. It's a pretty broad word.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

So murder doesn't Work, I don't think.

[John Collins]

Because.

[Tim]

Because here in numbers 35, we wouldn't call that murder.

[John Collins]

No, we'd call that manslaughter.

[Tim]

Yes, exactly.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

Yeah. And what Ahab did isn't quite murder because it's setting someone up, framing them so that they end up dying. So I think our English word kill is probably the best. It overlaps the most because kill can refer to intentional or unintentional.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

And even though in Hebrew you never ratzach an animal, whereas kill can refer to plants or animals or humans. But kill's about our most general word to describe taking the life. But it doesn't address purpose. Premeditated, accidental. It just covers all of them. I think kill's pretty good.

[John Collins]

Yeah, I hear that. Help me understand this word more. Ratzakh. Is there any more examples we can see?

[Tim]

Yeah, there's 46 examples, in fact. But I think it's just good to say in the moment that. To translate it. Murder, kind of.

[John Collins]

Yeah. What's the problem with murder?

[Tim]

Stacks the deck.

[John Collins]

Stacks the deck.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

Okay. When I think of do not murder, I guess I don't think of the example of the person who unintentionally did manslaughter.

[Tim]

Right.

[John Collins]

But you're saying this word is used in that instance.

[Tim]

Yes, in fact, in numbers 35, that's mostly what it refers to as somebody who's accidentally taken the life of someone. And murder doesn't mean that. Okay, but rasach does mean that.

[John Collins]

Okay, now, but is that. I guess what I would want to know is the numbers use of ratsach, is that a real baseline use or is that a more novel kind of use of it?

[Tim]

Oh, I see. Well, there's a bunch of cases where actually within numbers here. Let's just go there. It gives you a bunch of case studies. So numbers 35, 16. Let's say somebody hit someone with an iron tool and that person dies. That person is a rotzeach, and they must be put to death.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

So basically the idea is if you've got a hammer in your hand, you know that that's going to kill the person.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

And if you choose to strike with

[John Collins]

a hammer, you're Rotzeach.

[Tim]

You're Rotzeach. Yep. If you strike with a stone large enough that it could kill the person and they do die, you're rotzeach.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

You're subject to capital punishment. Let's say you strike with a wooden weapon and they die. So in all these cases, there are rotzeach subject to capital punishment. Let's Say one guy strikes another guy out of hatred or throws something at him on purpose and he dies. You're a rotzeach and you're subject to capital punishment. But let's say the person struck them just right in a moment without hating them. They just. Or threw something at them, but they didn't mean to, and that person dies. Then the community needs to get involved and we need to have.

[John Collins]

And then he calls them something different.

[Tim]

Trial.

[John Collins]

What's that word there?

[Tim]

This is the same word, ratzach. The community must.

[John Collins]

Oh, it's rendered different.

[Tim]

Yeah. The community must save the rotzach out of the hand of the avenger of blood.

[John Collins]

So there it is. It's also unintentional.

[Tim]

Yeah. So it's a good example where ratzach refers to intentional.

[John Collins]

And that's so interesting. What are you looking at, niv?

[Tim]

This is the net Bible, New English translation. Yeah, let's see what the. Niv, how they do that here.

[John Collins]

Yeah. Murderer, Murderer, murderer. That's all intentional. And then it switches to manslayer.

[Tim]

Manslayer, yeah, but it's the same word. It's the same word. Yes, that's right. So in niv, when it's talking about intentional killing, it translates murder. When it's unintentional, it translates manslayer. But when it comes to the Ten Commandments, the NIV chooses murder to render thou shalt not murder because you have

[John Collins]

to choose one word. So it's interesting, NIV is deciding, when I'm in a context where they're. Where it's obviously murder versus manslaughter, we'll make the decision. In a situation where it's ambiguous, we're going to not use a more general term to capture the ambiguity. We're going to decide.

[Tim]

Yeah. In other words, when you translate don't murder, you're limiting the application of what you think is being referred to. And here's why I think this matters is where is this command supposed to send our minds? Is it supposed to send our minds only to premeditated, calculated, like first or second degree murder? Or is this command supposed to send our minds on a more cosmic meditation

[John Collins]

on just ending someone's life?

[Tim]

What really is involved in the ending of a life? And why is it that that should be avoided at nearly every cost? So much so that you could just a simple command, don't end a life. Because that is what resach means, just ending a life unrelated to purpose or premeditation. So I think we're in the same territory here as Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. Do not judge. It's just blanket command. And you're like, whoa, yeah, how's that possible? But then he goes on to start qualifying. Right. Just saying, okay, so do you mean never evaluate anybody's choices or behavior at all, ever, under any circumstance? And then he goes on to talk about situations where you might have to evaluate, but he wants you to, by the shock factor of the prohibition, to step back and to say like, whoa, what's the bigger picture here? And I think something similar is going on here with the use of this word ratzach instead of the word harag.

[John Collins]

Don't. Murder. Yeah.

[Tim]

So it's rhetoric, a rhetorical overstatement that forces you to start thinking. Okay, so I guess here's. So let me remember there's something very important about the 10 commands is that they are closely joined to the 42 that come right after them. And what's so interesting is when you get to the 42, there's a whole section of the 42 that starts working with all the qualifications. And all of a sudden it makes you start thinking about what is the purpose of that two word prohibition back there in the 10. So in the 42 that follow, you have this case law. In Exodus, chapter 21, the one who strikes a man so that he dies, that one should be put to death.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

So it's not the word ratzach, it's not even the word murder, it's just the word hit. Okay, let's say you hit somebody and then that person dies. Capital punishment. Whoa.

[John Collins]

Yeah, it's intense.

[Tim]

That is intense. And you start asking, well, what about this? What about that? Okay, so verse 13. Well, if that guy didn't lie in wait for him. Meaning like scheme it. Yeah, scheme it. But rather there's a rabbit hole that I'm going to try and have a gingerly walk around. But let's say God allowed him to fall into his hand. In other words, the guy didn't plan it. Yeah, but in the mysterious providence of God, circumstances came together so that an accident, the accidental murder, then I, God, will appoint for you all a place where he may flee. It's referring to city of refuge. Okay, but let's say that a man schemes against his neighbor so as to harag murder him by treachery. Yeah, that guy needs to be put to death. Okay, so you have this general statement. Anybody who hits another human and they die, they should be put to death. So right there. Yep, you're like, that sounds like a command. Okay, but then you have all these qualifications. You have these immediately, these two qualifications. Well, but if it was unintentional. No. And if it was intentional. Yes. So that's a pattern set right there.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

The baseline is a human life is not there for you to take. Yeah. Apparently a human life is so valuable that it's worth this kind of blanket prohibition. Even though we know and God knows and Moses knows, there's going to be all these qualifications. But let's for a moment forget about the qualifications. Don't end a life. Don't do it. In other words, the sixth command is a form of wisdom literature. It's forcing you to take responsibility for all of the infinite variety of ways where you're supposed to carry out the value underneath the prohibition. But it's going to look different in every different circumstance.

[John Collins]

Yeah. We've always had so much trouble with this as one of the commands. Right. Like, because if you're in the military or if you're. And you had to go to war or. Yeah. What if someone's trying to kill your family? Like, you get to all these scenarios and you're like. And you feel all that tension. And if you come to this list going, this is like a definitive list. I can just check things off or not. Then it just feels weird. It's like it feels underdeveloped. But you come to it as wisdom literature.

[Tim]

Yes. Yeah.

[John Collins]

And then the question is, okay, what am I supposed to do? And you're saying from the beginning of this conversation, let's go to Genesis and let's see what the wisdom is.

[Tim]

Yeah. Where is the first time that the word life is used? Let's start there.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

Because we're ascending as. Wow. Apparently the value of a life is really important. Yeah. So to Genesis 1 we go. It's. So this very, very simple point to be made. God is the originator and the giver of life. According to the narrative world and claim of Genesis 1, there was lifelessness, darkness, disorder. That's how the Genesis 1 narrative begins. God brings order in days one through three, and then on days five and six, he fills the world with living creatures. Chayot is the plural living beings, but it's the plural of chayah or chay, which means to be alive, living animal or human life. And then what we're told on day six is one particular of those chayot, living things is what's called Adam. And God says, let us make Adam in our image according to our likeness, and let them rule over all. And there's the list of the animals, the fish, the birds, the cattle, creeping things on the land. Elohim created human in his image. In the image of Elohim, he created him male and female. He created them, and Elohim blessed them and said to them, be fruitful and multiply. Fill the land, subdue it, rule over the fish, the birds, and the chayot, the living things. So life comes from God. Yeah, Genesis 2's way of depicting that will be God breathing into the dirt and animating the land with the life of heaven, so to speak. God's own heavenly life and making creatures and making, well, humans. Yep, making humans. But then here's one particular creature here in Genesis 1 that is among the living things, but then is also then called to take responsibility for the life of other living things in the form of ruling and having responsibility for it. And that particular creature is called the image of God. Made in the image. Yeah, so that's a little meditation right there. All life comes from God, and so

[John Collins]

God has a responsibility over the life.

[Tim]

So God is responsible for the life and can rule over the life and can rule directly. But then God shares that responsibility to care for life, oversee it to a human image. God delegates that care for life. So that's pretty. Seems pretty foundational. All life comes from God. And then God shares that oversight and care for life with human image. So it is very interesting then that in the Garden of Eden story, God is the giver of life. But then also, if humans prove themselves to be bad partners, God has the prerogative to take away life. Or at least he exiles Adam and Eve from the garden where they will die. They no longer have access to God's eternal life. So God both gives life now and then God can make this call that man. If the humans are going to define good and bad by their own wisdom, they should not have eternal life, access to eternal life if they're in that state.

[John Collins]

So he can take away life.

[Tim]

So he exiles them. And even though he doesn't kill them on the spot, as it were, he does banish them to the place where they will eventually die. So the biblical authors take for granted that it is God's prerogative alone to give and to take away life, and that human images can be delegated to care for life. That sends your mind. Well, maybe human beings could be delegated to take away life. Sure. Doesn't say that.

[John Collins]

Doesn't say, but it does say. What's the word? Subdue.

[Tim]

Oh, yeah, subdue. That's right.

[John Collins]

In my mind, subduing can get kind of.

[Tim]

Yeah, it's anticipating that there'll be a hostile confrontation from some of the animals. Like a snake, for example.

[John Collins]

Yeah. But it doesn't necessarily anticipate that you're gonna have to hurt other humans.

[Tim]

No, there it's in relationship to the animals. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So God can give life. God can take away life. Humans are called to care for life.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

But that's where the story is so far. Next story, Cain and Abel, which, incidentally, it's all about taking of life.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

So you have a brother, he's angry, and God says that you have a choice between doing good and not doing good. This is Genesis, chapter four, verse seven. If you do good, Cain, if you're angry, won't there be exaltation lifting up for you if you do not do good, Be careful, because sin is like a croucher and it desires you. But you can rule it like all

[John Collins]

the creatures you're supposed to rule.

[Tim]

Yes. Now you've got this angry impulse against your brother and you need to rule over it. Just like a hostile animal might threaten your community, your village, your children. Even though it doesn't happen yet. So obviously Cain doesn't do good. He gives in to sin because he murders his brother. God comes to Cain and says, hey, where's your brother? And Abel says, what am I, the keeper of my brother? Which implied there is. Am I responsible for him or his life? Really? And very clearly. God assumes that a brother is responsible for the life of his brother. Because he goes on and says, what have you done? The voice of the spilt blood shed blood of your brother is crying out to me from the ground. So something cosmic has happened where the return of his brother's blood to the ground by his own hand, instead of caring for the life of his brother, he's taken the life and he's returned that human life to the ground, but in an unauthorized way. It's not cool.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

You just broke the cosmos. You just broke the system.

[John Collins]

The blood. You broke the cosmos. You're saying this phrase. The blood crying out from the ground is a phrase that makes you think you broke the cosmos.

[Tim]

You just. Yeah. Yep. Like the universe is designed to work a certain way. Life is a precious gift from God. The blood represents the life, the blood is the life.

[John Collins]

And so the life is meant to be in you.

[Tim]

In you.

[John Collins]

You're supposed to have the life in your body if the life is spilled out into the ground. Now the ground has the life.

[Tim]

Yep.

[John Collins]

You don't have the life. You're dead.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

And so there's this turn of phrase. The blood now is crying out.

[Tim]

It's your accuser.

[John Collins]

It's accusing the murderer, saying, this is not okay. Yeah, I'm supposed to be alive.

[Tim]

You didn't have the authority to do that. Yeah. You didn't give life to your brother. God did. You can't just take the life of another human. Like, it's yours to take. It's not yours to take.

[John Collins]

And the crying out means not just accusing, but kind of saying, something's wrong now.

[Tim]

Yeah, that's right. So within the narrative world of Genesis 1:4, God's the Giver of life. Human life is an image of God, and it's so precious and valuable that you're actually rupturing. You're causing a rupture in the cosmos to take a human life in an unauthorized way. It's not yours to take. So what's interesting is Cain begins a spiral of violence that continues on through his descendant Lamech, who starts, like, glorifying violent taking of life. And then that leads to the whole debacle with the nephilim in Genesis 6. And what results from all that is violence in the land, Genesis 6, and innocent blood crying out to the ground. From the ground to the ground.

[John Collins]

The picture is this is normalized now people are just saying, it's not a big deal. We just kill each other.

[Tim]

That's right. Point is, taking of human life starts becoming the norm. That's the norm in a post Cain world. Yeah. Cain sets in motion a degrading trend.

[John Collins]

Life is a battlefield at this point.

[Tim]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And for gynecolemech, personal honor and status is just as valuable, if not more valuable, than another person's life. So you slap me, you wound me, I chop your head off. That is true in many traditional honor shame cultures throughout history. And think if you're generations into a culture where personal honor is more valuable than anybody's life, then it actually becomes reasonable to take your own life if you have been dishonored, it becomes reasonable to take another person's life if they dishonored you. If they've dishonored you. Yeah.

[John Collins]

So when we see the scaling of violence that leads up to the flood, it's in the model of Lamech.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

Who's saying, if you dishonor me, I take your life.

[Tim]

Yeah, that's right.

[John Collins]

And that logic or that kind of way of living scaled up just makes things get out of control.

[Tim]

Yeah, that's right.

[John Collins]

Okay,

[Tim]

Sa. So after the flood, where God purifies The land from all the spilt blood. And Noah and his sons get off the boat and their wives and his wife, and God says to them, be fruitful and multiply. But then there's this whole little set of qualifications that God gives, because now humans are in the habit of taking the life of creatures and of other humans. So the first thing that God does with Noah is modify the vegan diet of Eden and says, okay, now the creatures, the birds and the fish and the ground creepers, they are in your hand to eat for food, just like I gave you the plants in the Garden of Eden. So it's like a concession. God makes a concession.

[John Collins]

You can eat the animals now.

[Tim]

Yep. However, and here's the concession, verse four. You cannot eat the flesh of another creature if its lifeblood is still in the veins, you cannot. So we're back to thinking about the blood like we did with Cain and Abel. Then some well known lines, maybe, I don't know, it depends on how well known. God says, indeed, I will require your lifeblood. From every beast, I will require it. And from every human. From a man's brother, I will require the life of a human. So if you take the life of an animal, or if you take the life of a human, God will come looking for you, just like he did with Cain. Wow. So if an animal takes the life of another human or animal, or if a human takes the life of another human or animal, you're accountable to God for that. From every beast, I will require it. And from every human, and from a man's brother, I will require your lifeblood.

[John Collins]

If you take.

[Tim]

Yeah. The general idea, I think, is that here's the thing, humans are violent, you're going to kill each other and you're going to kill animals to eat them. But I want you to know something. Anytime a life is taken, human or animal, God's paying attention. God will require it. And that's a dense phrase and we don't have time to go down a full study of it. But the point is, God will show up. He's paying attention. Anytime a living creature's life is taken.

[John Collins]

Okay, so you can eat animals.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

But not the blood.

[Tim]

Don't eat the blood.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

Yeah, you gotta pour it out.

[John Collins]

Yeah. Okay.

[Tim]

Gotta pour out the blood.

[John Collins]

And then it says, I will require your lifeblood. What does that mean? I will require your lifeblood.

[Tim]

If you take the life of another creature, there'll be some accountability. I will require your lifeblood. I think it's implied. If you take it illegitimately or if you devalue. So we haven't finished reading in classic biblical kind of meditation, literature style. The main point is, save for the end, which is this. The one who pours out the blood of a human by a human, his blood will be poured out. Why? Because in the image of God, he made Adam humanity. So the life and the lifeblood of any creature, human or animal, is of ultimate value to God. God's paying attention. And if you illegitimately take the life of an animal or a human, because basically the flesh with its life and its blood, you will not eat. So this is the foundation of the kosher food laws that get developed in Leviticus.

[John Collins]

Yeah, but you've already killed the animal.

[Tim]

That's right.

[John Collins]

So the life of the animal has been taken. So now it's honor the life of the animal, don't eat its blood.

[Tim]

That's right.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

Yep. Because blood is the life. So let's flip it over. I think the logic underneath this is God is the giver of life. And we've already established that it's not a human's prerogative based on their own desire or honor shame system to take the life of another human. It's not. Okay. And if you take the life of another creature, you stand before God for it. If it's the life of an animal, you can do that if you want to, but you have to honor its blood, return it to the ground from which it came. Then verse five and six, I think go on to talk about that. Even though you can kill and eat an animal, just so that we're clear, like the lifeblood of any creature, it's mine. It's God's. God will hold you accountable for acting like you have the authority to take the life of another creature.

[John Collins]

I will hold you accountable for murder. That's what require your lifeblood means.

[Tim]

Yeah. Yes.

[John Collins]

Hold you accountable for murder.

[Tim]

Yes. And you'll be accountable for murder if you kill an animal and then like consume its blood.

[John Collins]

Okay.

[Tim]

Because you are acting like God, like you can just take the life of another animal. Now God says you can take the life of an animal to eat its flesh, but not its blood. You got to pour that blood back on the ground and give it back to the ground from which it came. So there's just this extreme valuing of life as a principle of the life of animals and humans.

[John Collins]

So you're saying that extreme value of life first showed up as you actually don't have the right to eat an animal?

[Tim]

Yeah, in Eden.

[John Collins]

In Eden didn't Say it explicitly, but it's eat the fruit.

[Tim]

Eat the fruit. Eat the plants.

[John Collins]

Eat the plants, rule the animals. And when Noah gets off the ark, you get this pretty strange concession where God says, okay, about the animals. And you can eat them now.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

Which makes just right there, you're like, whoa, okay, we weren't eating animals. That wasn't the point. To eat the animals.

[Tim]

Yeah. Ruling animals, according to Genesis 1 did not involve being able to eat them.

[John Collins]

The life of animals are really important. Extremely important.

[Tim]

Life is important.

[John Collins]

Life, because life is important.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

The life of specifically creatures here. And blood, the blood of animals, the blood of humans is their life. We know that from the Cain story.

[Tim]

Liquid life.

[John Collins]

Liquid life. Okay. So when we get to this concession, God's telling Noah, you can eat the animals. Now, man, take this seriously. Right? That's what we're supposed to get. Because you're taking the life for your own benefit and you're stepping into territory that's very. That's my territory.

[Tim]

Yeah, yeah, That's God's territory. Because God is the author of life.

[John Collins]

Humans aren't supposed to be the ones who can just decide when life ends for something else.

[Tim]

Yeah. Human or animal?

[John Collins]

Human or animal.

[Tim]

Yes, that's right. However, God knows that humans are both violent and that they want to eat flesh. So he makes this concession. But then even in the concession, he creates like a.

[John Collins]

Take the life of this animal.

[Tim]

Every time you take the life of an animal and want to eat it, I want you to go through a ritual, a process that will remind you that actually this life isn't yours, it's God's.

[John Collins]

Okay. That's the not eating the blood of the animal.

[Tim]

Yep, that's right.

[John Collins]

And this, indeed, I will require your lifeblood is saying, like, yeah, if you

[Tim]

take the life of an animal and eat its blood, you are acting like it was your life to take, and

[John Collins]

that will require your life.

[Tim]

And that is akin to taking the life of a human. And for taking life of a human, the one who pours out the blood of a human by a human, his blood will be poured out. And then what's the ground for all of this? What's underneath all of this is that in the image of God, he made human. So humans are called to rule and care for life on God's behalf. And if you selfishly appropriate the life of an animal and act like you're God over it, not cool. God will require your life for that. And if you certainly do that for another human image of God. But notice there's A paradox here. The one who pours out the blood of a human, that is, who murders a human by a human, his blood will be poured out, you'll be put to death by another human. But then that human who takes a life of a human as like a just response will then be responsible. Right. It sets up almost this little circular paradox where now humans are just going to become endlessly responsible for this cycle of violence. Yeah. It's almost like an impossible scenario. Human life is so valuable, humans should never take a life. But to enforce that very point, capital punishment is allowed for here. But even capital punishment is qualified because it just sets in motion the cycle. That's really fascinating.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

It's almost like if you want to make your bed, so to speak, on a cycle of violence, on one sense, a cycle of violence, like capital punishment upholds something. Capital punishment communicates something. It communicates that it's not okay to take a human life, but it also defeats itself because you're taking human life to make the point that it's not ours. Right. Prerogative to take human life.

[John Collins]

Isn't the logic of capital punishment, like, if you take someone's life, how could you ever repay them? There really is no way to repay them. The only really equitable thing is you forfeit your life.

[Tim]

Right.

[John Collins]

But then you're saying, now we're in this paradox of, okay, once you force someone to forfeit their life, well, now you've taken their life.

[Tim]

Now you've taken. Now you've taken their life.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

Yes.

[John Collins]

And now you're responsible for their life.

[Tim]

Right.

[John Collins]

And so. Right in this law of retaliation, capital punishment is like a bug that's going to, like, just create all these problems.

[Tim]

Yes. Yeah, that's right. Yep. So Patrick Miller, who I learned a lot from on the Ten Commandments, Hebrew Bible scholar, he names it this way. This is helpful. He says the tension of God's blessing of life and the warning of God's authority to take life through capital punishment is now remains within the human community. So God's the giver of life. This is me commenting on Miller's Comet. God's the giver of life, and only God has authority to take life. So that's a tension right there. Even within, like, God's own responsibility of creation. And now God's giving over that responsibility to the human community. Miller goes on, the rule of God over life is so clear and the value of life is so high that nothing except a human life can compensate for it. But in such act, however, the community which we know is going to be fallible in its procedures of justice. The community is always at risk of violating the first part of the tension, which is the sacred value of life. The text goes as far as one can in Scripture in asserting the possibility of a legitimate taking of life through judicial procedure. But it does so within the context of God's instruction that goes as far as it can in protecting human life. The text doesn't give attention to the problems always present in a community's decision to take a life for a life that's been taken. And so the community has to face the thorny question of deciding on which side of the tension it'll come down. So what he's trying to name is that there's this inherent paradox within the sacred value of human life, and then the taking of the life as a just demonstration of the value of human life. And that in a way, this becomes like a little infinity loop. As I've reflected on this, this is a part of the tension driving the biblical story forward in a crisis of how do you both honor the sacred nature of God's life, that God wants to destine his human images towards eternal life, but yet to enforce and communicate that value. If somebody is careless with a human life, the only way to really communicate that is to take a human life, which it's kind of like, well, what's the way forward then? I guess the way forward would be if you could surrender a life that truly isn't able to be conquered by death. I guess you'd be able to solve the riddle. I'm kind of pointing way forward here and quickly to the story of Jesus. But you're setting up a problem here.

[John Collins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I'm beginning to appreciate the problem in a new light. That this passage is, in a very forceful way, is making you reckon with the fact that all life, human and animal, is of this utmost value. So, like, if you're going to start eating animals, like, this is serious business, because life is so, so important. Yes, so much so. Then when you get to human life now, it's like how much more important it is to respect the life of a human. And so what becomes kosher law is embedded in it, this deep, deep respect and honor for the life of an animal of another animal. So much so that there's this phrase that I'm still just trying to reckon with where God says, I will require your life by the way you mistreat another life, Even animals.

[Tim]

Animal life. Yeah, yeah.

[John Collins]

I mean, there I feel like I just need to stop and like.

[Tim]

Yeah. Go for a long walk.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

Evaluate.

[John Collins]

I don't think I've really come to terms with that actually. So that's throwing me for a loop.

[Tim]

Good. Well, I mean, I think probably it's supposed to. Yeah. It's supposed to get in our face.

[John Collins]

It's getting in our face saying, this is how important life is.

[Tim]

Yes. Yeah.

[John Collins]

Even animal life. Like, take that really, really seriously. So, like, we've just ramped up the value of life, like, as high as we could go. And then this is a puzzle. What do you do when someone violates that?

[Tim]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Collins]

When someone, like, just takes someone's life for shaming them or decides your life's not important. I'm going to take it. If life is that extremely valuable, what is there to do in that situation with that person?

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

That person is going to create chaos in our communities. That person also has just done something that is just cosmically violating. And so the only, like, logical thing is that person has forfeited their right to. Their right to be part of this whole thing. They can't have the life anymore.

[Tim]

Yeah. Yep.

[John Collins]

Okay, well then who's gonna exact that?

[Tim]

Yeah. Who's gonna carry that out?

[John Collins]

Who's gonna carry that out?

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

Because when you carry that out. Well, now you're back in the exact same situation of what. But that person's life is still their life. They forfeited it. But, like, it's still life.

[Tim]

That's still life. Yeah.

[John Collins]

And so, man, be careful.

[Tim]

That's right.

[John Collins]

What you're saying is it's implicit in this is like, man, that's a dangerous game to play of, like now taking that person's life.

[Tim]

And humans are well into playing that dangerous game full on by at this point in the biblical story.

[John Collins]

Yeah.

[Tim]

And so that's why I was using the infinity loop or the. It's like an impossible crisis that drives the biblical story forward. That whatever is going to have to happen now, humanity has forfeited its right to live. But yet God is the one who has declared that animals and humans should live. And that all of that is taking for granted and driving the rhetoric of the sixth command. Lotir tsach, don't kill.

[John Collins]

There's something so foundational and important and valuable about life.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

That the baseline is you do not take it.

[Tim]

Do not do it.

[John Collins]

You don't cause it to stop being life.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[John Collins]

And let life be life.

[Tim]

That's right. And after the Ten Commandments come the 42, which is going to qualify that and all these ways that are important. And so maybe it's just good to say you and I are not in this moment trying to make official declarations about the legitimacy of capital punishment or I think we're just trying to meditate on these texts or when you can

[John Collins]

defend your family or.

[Tim]

That's right.

[John Collins]

What does it mean to be a soldier? All that stuff.

[Tim]

Yeah, that's downstream. And you got to think that through. Like we all have to think those questions through in our communities, in our context.

[John Collins]

But as you think those things through, you're confronted with what feels like this real riddle and this pretty exacting charge, which is life of all creatures is so valuable. And then human life that's made in the image of God and there's even something more cosmic there.

[Tim]

Yeah, that's right.

[John Collins]

And you just don't mess with it.

[Tim]

Yeah. It's not yours to take. Yeah.

[John Collins]

So when you start from there, then you kind of with like trepidation and real kind of somberness kind of start to think, well then what does it mean to eat an animal? And even more so, what does it mean to hold someone accountable? To murder? What does it mean to protect my family? What does it mean? Like, how am I really going to reckon with this?

[Tim]

Hmm. This may be a good way to land the plane on this conversation, but not on the issue. Because the issue is one that all of us have to be thinking about all the time for the rest of our lives, is that this is the sixth command and the mini theme study we did of God's commands. You know, that's the frame leading up to the ten Commandments is God. Commandments are for life. Like life is actually one of the key words used connected to the purpose of God's commands is to protect and preserve the life of the one to whom God commands and then also to avoid the things that will lead to death. The purpose of God's commands is for life. And the sixth command here of the 10 just makes that perfectly clear. It's meant to direct that the best of our thinking, the best of our energies, our greatest wisdom and moral conviction is most aligned with God when we aim all of that at the preservation and the flourishing of life. Yeah. You know that you are close to the heart of God and the purpose of God if your actions are aimed at preserving and making life flourish. And maybe that very open ended positive value is maybe just a good place to end our meditations because in a way that just opens up a whole human life as to how you do that. And that is the purpose I guess of these commands is to point us towards life and wisdom.

[John Collins]

Thanks for listening to this episode of BibleProject Podcast. Next week we'll look at the seventh commandment, do not commit adultery, which leads us to a deeper conversation about the meaning and value of marriage.

[Tim]

Marriage is a symbol of the Creator's relentless focus, love and loyalty towards creation. God has a lot of ways that he could experience expressed creative potential, but that he would relentlessly commit himself to the dirt creatures and pursue them to love them as God loves God's own self. That's what a human marriage is meant to symbolize.

[John Collins]

Bibleproject is a crowdfunded nonprofit and we exist to experience the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus. Everything that we make is free because of the generous support of thousands of people just like you. Thank you so much for being a part of this with us.

[Martha and Martin]

Hi, my name is Martha and I'm from Florida. Hello, my name is Martin and I'm from Anchorage, Alaska. I first heard about bibleproject when my dad found it. I first heard about bibleproject when I was first becoming a Christian to get more into individual books of the Bible. I use bibleproject for studying the Bible when I'm not reading the Bible. I use the Bible Project for classroom podcasts, videos. Honestly, everything. My favorite thing about bibleproject is the classroom. My favorite one so far is the book on Jonah. My favorite thing about bibleproject is that they kind of translate the Bible for me when I can't understand it myself. We believe that the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus. Bibleproject is a non profit funded from people like me. Find free videos, articles, podcasts, classes and more on the Bibleproject app and at Bibleproject.com hi, my name is Levi Martin

[Levi Martin]

and I've been working at bibleproject for five years. I write, edit and manage content for our classroom. I love that I get to help build these high quality classes and then just give them away for free. Plus I get to work with some really incredible people to make it all happen. There is a whole team of us that help make the podcast happen every week. For a full list of everyone involved in this episode, check out the show credits wherever you stream the podcast and on our app.

[Tim]

Sam.