BibleThinker Ep 43: "Is JD Vance right? 10 Qs with Mike Winger"

Host: Mike Winger
Date: January 31, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Mike Winger critically addresses JD Vance’s recent claim that prioritizing love for one’s family, neighbors, community, and nation—before outsiders—is a “Christian concept.” Mike aims to analyze not the politics or policies of JD Vance or Donald Trump, but specifically the biblical accuracy of this hierarchical “order of love.” The rest of the episode features a series of listener questions covering theology, Christian living, and scriptural interpretation.

Key Discussion Points

1. JD Vance's "Order of Love" – Is it Christian?

[00:02–32:33]

JD Vance’s Statement

• Quote [01:13]:
  “There’s this old school...very Christian concept, by the way, that you love your family, then your neighbor, then your community, then your fellow citizens in your own country, and then after that you can focus and prioritize the rest of the world. ...That is no way to run a society...the simple concept America first. It doesn’t mean you hate anybody else. It means that you have leadership that puts the interests of American citizens first.” —JD Vance

Mike's Short Answer: "Sort of Right" — But Incomplete

• Mike: “He’s sort of right...but there are some missing elements that are really important if we’re going to call it a Christian concept.” [01:57]

Scriptural Foundations for Family Priority

• 1 Tim 5:8 — Providing for family is foundational:
  “If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
  • Mike emphasizes: “Taking care of your own household...is so Christian that [to neglect it] is worse than being an unbeliever.” [03:20]
• Elders/pastors must also shepherd their own household well (1 Tim. elder requirements).

“Order of Love” (Ordo Amoris)

• The idea dates back to Augustine, but Mike sticks with scripture, not philosophical tradition.

Loving Your Neighbor

• Love your neighbor as yourself does not mean “no priorities”—it means “don’t exclude anyone from love.”
• Mike: “You do take care of neighbors. Scripture talks about that. But you still start with your family.” [08:30]
• Jesus’ own order: Love God first, then your neighbor (Matt 22).

Community and Country

• Caring for one’s country/people is just an extension of Old Testament prophetic priorities.
• “A government caring for its citizens seems consistent with the prophets of the Old Testament...God rebukes nations for not taking care of people in their midst.” [11:52]

Dangers of “Prioritization” Becoming Pretext

• Mike warns: “Prioritizing your kids can be a disguise for despising others. That’s never a Christian perspective.” [16:19]
• Quote: “You can have hypothetical love for distant people you never meet—that is really just a way of hating the people you do know.” [08:15]

2. What Did Vance Miss? Three Critical Christian Priorities

[23:51–32:33]

a) “God First” Is the True Christian Order

• Mike: “This is not a small thing to miss. If you’re going to call it a Christian principle, you have to start with loving God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. That is the greatest commandment.” [23:57]

b) The Priority of Fellow Christians

• Galatians 6:10:
  “As we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.”
• “There is a Christian priority...JD Vance didn’t give a sphere for Christians, fellow believers. He should have.” [26:13]
• Reference to Jesus redefining family as “those who do the will of God” (Mark 3:31–35).

c) Special Care for the Foreigner in Your Midst

• “You cannot just categorize the world as those outside your country. You must also care for the ‘stranger in your midst’—that is a biblical category.” [30:03]
• Mike references his video on immigration and emphasizes biblical love for sojourners.

3. The Good Samaritan & The Limits of “Priority”

[32:33–39:44]

• Many progressive critics argue that the Good Samaritan story “upends” Vance’s priority order.
• Mike:
  “This is about extending the love umbrella wider; it’s not about reversing priorities...It refuses the Christian the ability to see anybody and go, ‘Don’t care about you, don’t love you.’
  • But: “We don’t see the Samaritan neglect his own family to care for a stranger. He helps out of abundance, not neglect.” [38:10]
  • The parable “is not about sending aid to every distant person, but about caring for those whom God puts in your path.” [39:30]

4. Summary & Final Reflections

[45:33]

• “The concept, that you help those you have greater responsibility for first, is generally fair—but it must be tempered. This doesn’t mean you hate others or neglect those outside your immediate circles.”
• Mike cautions against using scriptural “order” as an excuse for tribalism or bitterness.
• Ends this section: “Hopefully you’ll do so good taking care of people at home that you can take care of people abroad. That’s actually a wonderful goal to have.” [44:25]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:20]
  “Taking care of your own household...is so Christian that [to neglect it] is worse than being an unbeliever.” —Mike Winger

• [08:15]
  “You can have hypothetical love for distant people you never meet—that is really just a way of hating the people you do know.” —Mike Winger

• [16:19]
  “Prioritizing your kids can be a disguise for despising others. That’s never a Christian perspective.” —Mike Winger

• [23:57]
  “This is not a small thing to miss. If you’re going to call it a Christian principle, you have to start with loving God...that is the greatest commandment.” —Mike Winger

Listener Q&A (Key Segments & Insights)

Question timestamps approximate; full transcript for reference.

Q2: Advice for Vulnerability to Worldliness at Work ([45:34])

• Mike stresses discernment, being slow to speak (cf. James), and intentional boundaries.
• Suggests using Psalm 1 as a guide for avoiding ungodly influence.

Q3: Should Children Be Taught About Hell? ([53:12])

• Mike: “Be cautious and use wisdom, know your kid. You want an awareness of the gospel, not just a terror of hell.”
• Use age-appropriate, balanced explanations.

Q4: Praying for Healing for the Unsaved ([56:05])

• “My greatest prayer for anybody is their salvation. But you can and should also pray for healing...Just do both.”
• References biblical examples of God healing non-believers.

Q5: Do You Need a Specific “Date of Salvation”? ([59:44])

• Mike: “Don’t worry about it. That’s a modern pressure. For many, salvation is gradual, and the Bible doesn’t require a definable date.”
  • “Not everyone in the Bible had a dramatic conversion moment.”

Q6: God's Omnipresence and Time ([01:05:23])

• Explains different philosophical theories of time and how omnipresence applies.

Q7: Disqualifications for Non-Pastoral Ministry ([01:12:05])

• The character standard is the same for all, but applied more strictly to leaders.
• Recognizes real world distinctions and practical church needs.

Q8: Are Certain Products “Spiritually Dangerous”? ([01:20:18])

• Skeptical of claims that certain brands/products allow evil spirits.
• Warns against superstition; references Colossians 2 (legalistic restrictions).

Q9: Did Jacob Wrestle With the Father or the Son? ([01:26:27])

• Argues for the "Angel of the Lord" being a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ, not a mere angel.

Q10: Tribulation Saints and the Rapture ([01:31:55])

• Explains different views in the pre-tribulation rapture debate. Points out he no longer holds strong opinions on timing but emphasizes Christian unity over timing-predictions.

Closing Note

[01:36:40]

• Mike previews an upcoming exposé on alleged manipulations by Sean Bowles and lack of accountability among charismatic leadership:
  “If they won’t do it, then the Christian community by and large is going to respond and do it. People need to be aware...it’s not gossip, but it is light.”
• Emphasizes the need for transparency and biblical correction within the church.

Episode Structure & Timestamps

• [00:02] — Introduction to JD Vance’s claim and discussion setup
• [01:13] — JD Vance’s full quote
• [01:57–32:33] — Deep dive into biblical priorities for love, critique of Vance
• [32:33–39:44] — Good Samaritan, limits and clarifications on prioritization
• [45:34–1:35:55] — "10 Qs" Listener Questions (workplace worldliness, teaching children about hell, prayer priorities, specific date of salvation, God & time, ministry qualifications, spiritual dangers of products, Jacob wrestling God or Christ, tribulation saints)
• [01:36:40–end] — Upcoming investigation into charismatic leadership abuse

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode delivers a rigorous, scripture-based critique of the “America First” rhetoric as a supposedly Christian hierarchy of love. While recognizing biblical order in care (family, community, etc.), Mike insists that “God first,” love for all—including foreigners—and special care for fellow Christians are essential. The Good Samaritan story is expanded, not reversed, by these priorities. The Q&A reinforces biblical thinking in practical, everyday situations and closes with a call for discernment about leadership within charismatic churches. The tone is forthright, pastoral, but always aimed at faithful biblical interpretation.