The Disappointing End of My Short Greg Locke Saga - All Lies

Summary

BibleThinker with Mike Winger

Episode: The Disappointing End of My Short Greg Locke Saga - All Lies
Release Date: May 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this no-holds-barred episode, Mike Winger addresses his recent public clash with Greg Locke, an influential and controversial Charismatic pastor. The central theme revolves around Locke’s extreme public accusations against other Christian leaders (naming them as pedophiles and sex traffickers), his participation in what Mike calls “cover up culture,” and Locke’s reluctance to follow through on his public debate challenge. Winger uses this situation to highlight the dangers of unchecked loyalty, lack of accountability, and the need for transparent, biblically rooted discernment in the church.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Greg Locke’s Role in “Cover Up Culture”

[00:00–05:00]

• Mike explains that Greg Locke, like several others, is part of a network in Charismatic circles that habitually covers for problematic leaders.
• “He exhibits behaviors that fit a pattern of the kind of guy who feels like they are the protector of…bad guys in many cases.” [01:05] – Mike
• Mike recounts his four-hour exposé of Benny Hinn as a fake prophet and accuses Locke of participating in systematic cover-ups for Hinn, Paula White, Todd White, Landon Schott, and others.
• Notably, Mike identifies loyalty as Locke’s motive, often at the expense of justice and truth.

2. The Benny Hinn “Repentance” & Public Spin

[03:33–11:43]

• Locke appeared on Stephen Strang’s Charisma podcast to defend Benny Hinn’s so-called repentance following Mike’s exposé video.
• Locke and Strang deflect the conversation from Hinn’s deception to supposed “forgiveness and maturity.” Mike dissects this as further cover-up, refuting any meaningful change in Hinn’s ministry.
• Mike: “There’s no sense in which that was some kind of genuine repentance… Even after he repented, he went on to continue doing the exact same stuff.” [05:30]
• Locke insinuates that critics like Mike are only chasing “clicks and likes,” questioning their motives instead of addressing actual evidence.
• Quote: “Influencers are more concerned about followers than actually following what the truth of the word of God is.” [09:06] – Greg Locke

3. The Pattern of Ungodly Loyalty

[11:14–17:00]

• Locke openly states: “I’m a loyalist, right? I’m a guy that, when Greg Locke’s your friend, he’s going to be your friend to the end.” [11:14]
• Mike critiques this, emphasizing how such entrenched loyalty enables the suppression of accusations and protects the guilty.

4. Failed Attempts at Accountability

[17:00–22:00]

• Mike recounts reaching out to Locke multiple times, both privately and publicly, to invite honest dialogue and accountability. These offers were ignored or met with insults, not engagement.
• Mike reiterates that seeking public examination is biblical, especially when multiple witnesses testify against a leader (e.g., Todd White).
• Despite offering a $100,000 incentive for a third-party investigation into Todd White’s ministry (which Locke defends), Mike’s efforts were stonewalled.

5. Greg Locke’s Extreme Accusations—And the Fallout

[18:32–22:00]

• Locke, in public sermons, levels explosive accusations: naming Kenneth Copeland as a "rapist" and "sex trafficker" and Joel Osteen as a "pedophile," claiming to have evidence and a “dead man switch” with incriminating material.
• Quote: “I’ll show the pictures I’ve got, call them all out when I have to.” [18:32] – Greg Locke
• Locke tells his church:

  “You mark my word, right? I'll step down as your pastor if it ain't true. I'm telling you right now, I'll stop preaching if what I'm telling you is not true.” [00:47] / [20:20] – Greg Locke

6. Mike’s Response & the Missed Debate

[20:36–24:00]

• Mike calls on Locke to present evidence or publicly retract and apologize; if the claims were true it would demand urgent exposure for the victims; if not, Locke owed a clear public apology.
• Instead of responding, Locke dismisses Mike: “I owe you zero information about anything. You're so hungry for more stories, you'll just keep on going no matter what.” [21:15] – Greg Locke
• Event escalation: Locke issues a public debate challenge, which Mike accepts with reasonable conditions (a neutral moderator, focus on facts).
• When Mike agrees, Locke goes silent—later retracting his offer, deflecting with vague statements about prayerful consideration and “fruitlessness of further engagement.” [33:00–34:30]

7. Exposing Locke’s Deception — Side-by-Side Contradictions

[29:55–36:47]

• Mike meticulously contrasts Locke’s previous bold declarations ("I have the proof, I have a dead man switch") with his recent retractions (claiming he never possessed any evidence).
• Locke’s latest defense:

  “None of this material was ever placed in my personal possession, forwarded to me, or stored on any of my devices. It remained their story to tell.” [31:10] – Greg Locke (public statement)

• Mike’s verdict:

  “You were fabricating evidence. You now admit, based on your admission…this is a big deal. It goes to your integrity, it goes to your character.” [31:02] – Mike

• Repetition of Locke’s ultimatum:

  “You mark my word, right? I'll step down as your pastor if it ain't true. I'm telling you right now, I'll stop preaching if what I'm telling you is not true.” [36:47 / 00:47 / 20:20 / 29:55] – Greg Locke

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mike Winger [01:05]: “He exhibits behaviors that fit a pattern of the kind of guy who feels like they are the protector of…bad guys in many cases.”
• Greg Locke [11:14]: “I’m a loyalist, right? I’m a guy that, when Greg Locke’s your friend, he’s going to be your friend to the end...and I’m on this podcast right now because I’m your friend. I’m Charisma’s friend. I’m Pastor Benny’s friend. I love him.”
• Greg Locke [18:32]: “Kenneth Copeland, the most powerful pastor in America at lowdown—sorry, sex trafficker, rapist. I’ll show the pictures I’ve got.”
• Greg Locke [00:47, 20:20, 29:55, 36:47]: “I'll step down as your pastor if it ain't true. I'm telling you right now, I'll stop preaching if what I'm telling you is not true.”
• Mike Winger [31:02]: “You were fabricating evidence. You now admit, based on your admission…this is a big deal. It goes to your integrity, it goes to your character.”
• Mike Winger [36:57]: “That is the kind of bold-faced lie. This is the kind of guy who's telling a lie and in order to make it believable, he swears on his mother's soul…”

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Timeline & Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00–01:30] – Episode introduction and setup of the Greg Locke saga
• [01:05] – Mike’s assessment of Locke’s pattern of behavior
• [03:33] – Charisma interview: Strang and Locke defend Benny Hinn
• [08:14–10:16] – Locke’s passive-aggressive attacks on YouTube critics (Mike included)
• [11:14] – Greg Locke’s declaration of “ungodly loyalty”
• [17:00–18:32] – Mike’s offers for honest conversation and Lock’s record of defending controversial leaders
• [18:32–20:36] – Locke’s public accusations against Copeland and Osteen; claims of holding evidence
• [20:20, 29:55, 36:47] – Locke’s repeated pastorate resignation claim
• [21:15] – Locke’s dismissal of Mike’s requests for evidence
• [24:00–27:00] – The challenge to a live-streamed debate and Locke’s eventual silence/withdrawal
• [29:55–36:47] – Mike exposes Locke’s contradictions and non-apologies
• [36:57] – Mike’s closing assessment of the impact and takeaway

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Conclusion & Takeaway

Mike concludes the episode by highlighting the real issue: a pervasive “cover up culture” in parts of the church, where figures like Greg Locke protect each other with misplaced loyalty while refusing meaningful accountability or repentance. Locke’s dramatic accusations were fraudulent, his claims of possessing evidence were false, and his public challenge to Mike was revealed as hollow posturing when faced with genuine, biblically grounded scrutiny. Mike urges that forgiveness and restoration in leadership should come only with real repentance and public accountability, not at the expense of truth, victims, or integrity. Ultimately, the episode serves as both a warning and a call to biblical discernment for the church in handling leaders who abuse their platforms.

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For further information and context, full episode and referenced materials can be found on the BibleThinker channels.

Transcript

[A]

Greg Locke made some extreme statements. He then challenged me to a debate discussion and then when I said yes, he backed out. I'm going to give you guys the full story for some very important reasons that will become clear as I share it. All this has to do with COVID up culture in the Charismatic church, which Greg Locke, I believe is very much part of. And this is more of the same. I think light disinfects and showing you the crazy that has been coming out of Greg Locke on this kind of stuff for some time now is going to help to change things. I do believe that. And so I'm sharing this in, in the hopes that this salacious kind of content, I don't like that it is that way, but it is that way in a way is going to actually bring benefit to the body of Christ in some way. There should be accountability for Greg for the things he said based on his own words. He should quit ministry based on the things that he said, based on his words.

[B]

I'm telling you, you mark my word, right? I'll step down as your pastor if it ain't true. I'm telling you right now, I'll stop preaching if what I'm telling you is not true.

[A]

Let's walk through it right now. So, yep, he challenged me to a debate, a discussion, and then I agreed and then he backed out. But here's. This is how we got here. All right, so Greg's position in cover up culture, I kind of want you guys to understand Greg because he exhibits behaviors that fit a pattern of the kind of guy who feels like they are the protector of who I would call bad guys in many cases. Landon Schott does this, Malachi o' Brien does this, Greg Locke does this. There are others as well. I won't just keep naming all the names in the world, but there are guys who've all done this and it's documented and it's well known for those who pay attention to this stuff. So this is not just a bit of salacious gossip. This is cover up culture in practice. And Greg Locke is part of it now. Greg Locke is an infamous pastor, very well known, kind of still a rising star as far as in the charismatic church. They did the whole demon slayers thing. He's, you know, gone into White House type stuff. And he's kind of all connected, right? He's connected. He's defended Paula White, he's defended Benny Hinn, he's defended Todd White, he's defended Landon Shot, he's defended others. And he has most definitely not defended me. He's said some stuff about me that is pretty salaciously wrong. Not just salacious. For some reason, this word is entering into my vocabulary more often than usual right now. But let's talk about when me and Locke clash to get you guys the backstory that will make it all make sense. I exposed Benny Hinn. I did a four hour video showing Benny Hinn is a fake prophet, that he has lied and manipulated, that he has hurt people over and over again. And even his repentance. And this is the most important part, for the sake of today's video, his repentance is also fake, that he fake repents all the time and then he immediately goes back to doing exactly the same thing. I did that video. Then there was a terrible interview that he did that Greg Locke did with Stephen Strang, who is like the damage control guy for Benny Hinn. He has done this many times over the years. He pretends he's unbiased. He's clearly the damage control guy for Benny Hinn. Someone could take me up on that. I would be happy to back it up. They have financial connections, the two of them. And anyway, there's this. Now, who's Stephen Strang? This is the guy from Charisma Media. This, this is like the guy from Charisma and you know the magazine that they produce all kinds of news type content and he does this. Now I'm going to show you some clips and from that interview so you can see how it went. So here's some clips from that interview. I could share a lot of them. I just don't want this video to be too long. So here's some of it and you can see how he covers up for Benny Hinn. I will respond to some of these things. I've never shared a video on this. I could have easily a couple years ago, just didn't.

[C]

So regardless of how deep the falsity was, if you will, in Pastor Benny's ministry, the man's repented. All we have to do is speak the facts. And the facts are he admitted there's some things that he did and said that he should not have done and said and he's repented. We either forgive or we don't. So I think this entire issue is not really an issue about false doctrine, false prophets and prosperity gospel. I think it's an issue either about forgiveness and growth and maturity.

[A]

This is a very good example of COVID up culture. We'll have him talk about me in a minute. We all know what he's Talking about. Anyway, the. The idea that Benny's repented. That's the thing that came after my Benny Hinn video is, oh, he repented. He gave a public repentance. It was terrible. I will link a video below where I also went on an interview on Charisma, and I talked to a different reporter, not Stephen Strang. He didn't want to interview me, but we went through Benny Hinn's supposed repentance. I went through it in detail. Right. There's. There's no sense in which that was some kind of genuine repentance. Well, I don't want to get you too riled up here, but I actually have these. I actually have a couple clips that I want to play for you and then get your response. I've got two clips. So here's the. Here's the first one. I came to the conclusion in 2019 that I did not want to be a part of the gimmickry of it. But sadly, I let pressure get to me. And because of that pressure, I said things and did things I should not have done. And for that, really, I am sorry. And I ask the dear people watching us to really forgive me for that. And I'm striving with all my heart to be as biblical as possible with that. But I just want to get your response to that. I mean, he looks at the. He. He looks to the camera and does ask for forgiveness. Yeah, yeah. But you don't believe him. So, John, let me ask you, what did he repent of specifically? Right there? Specifically? Can you think of repent of specifically? Yeah, I'm not sure. It's almost like you have to fill in the blanks yourself. The only word he used there that was kind of specific was the word gimmickry. Right. So then I got to go, oh, gimmickry. So maybe whatever I think of as gimmickry in prosperity gospel, that's what he repented of. But even this week on his YouTube channel, he's telling people that if they give money to his ministry, God will give them much more money in return. And he even uses the word sacrificial giving, and that's what makes it a seed. And then the seed grows, and then God gives them even more money back. That's gimmickry. That's not biblical. That's not how it works. We do trust God to provide for us. So there's a biblical idea of God taking care of us, of us, honoring God with our finances and all that. That's all true. But the teaching that if you give. So I'm hurting financially and I take, let's say I owe 50,000 in debt, but I take the 10,000 I have in the bank and I just give it all to Benny Hinn. I know that God will give me even more in return, but actually, instead I lose my house because that's not what Scripture tells us. And so giving to get is what he teaches. Still, to me, that's gimmickry. But not to Benny Hinn. When he says gimmickry. I don't know what he even means by that. This is what I mean by a vague repentance. Maybe what he means by gimmickry is I won't use the phrase thousand dollars. Yeah, but, well, what good is that? Like, that's nice, but that's. That's a band aid on the issue. He then went on to continue doing the exact same stuff again, even after he repented this last time. So this was no repentance. That is absolutely deceitful. And Greg Locke is trying to spin things to go. Doesn't matter what Benny did. Benny said, sorry, but there's no accountability. There are zero consequences. It is just cover up. Just pull the covers over what he did and move on with business as usual. That was his role in this environment with Benny Hinn. And it worked on a lot of people. Benny Hinn should be out of ministry or much worse. And yet he still continues because of support from people who cover for him, people who are loyalists to him, like Greg Locke, sadly. So that being said, this is what he then did with YouTubers where he starts to insinuate all kinds of stuff about people like me. Now, keep in mind, this whole Benny Hinn thing, the repentance, the Strang interview with Greg Locke, it all happened because of my video. It would not have happened if not for my video. This is clearly about me when he's talking now.

[C]

So these people are going to keep doing YouTube videos. They're going to keep writing articles, they're going to keep saying what they want to say because it gets them clicks and likes.

[A]

One of the most shameful clicks and likes. Again, now he's insinuating motives on my part, right? Because YouTube videos, that has to refer to me. No reasonable person thinks this isn't about me. And saying I'm doing it for clicks and likes is to insinuate my secret motives, which I know nothing about. They didn't watch the video. I guarantee you Greg didn't watch the video. I have a high confidence. I Should say he didn't watch my video. I asked him if he did later and he just insulted me for even assuming I should watch his video, the video he's responding to in this interview. So this is like the weird kind of passive aggressive hostility that was coming from Greg. And I don't care that it's personally a negative about me. I care that it's covering up and further oppressing victims of Benny Hinn and further enabling a man who is a blot on the the name of Christ.

[C]

Things in the body of Christ is that influencers are more concerned about followers than actually following what the truth of the word of God is. So here's what these detractors need to understand. The more we grow closer to Christ, the less we hate people that we don't understand. So whether you like Benny Hinn or not, okay, Wisdom will be justified of her children. Let's give it a few years. And when we go to jail, let me tell you something. The last thing you're going to be worried about is doing videos against somebody that could help you inst. Stand with you. There will come a day that all of these people doing these videos that hate on me, him, you or whoever else, they are going to need us. And yet you have people that for clicks and shares and blue check marks. They want to fight brothers and sisters in Christ. And I'm done with it.

[B]

Stop.

[C]

We are children of the most high God, anointed and appointed by God. And we are called on the same battlefield to fight the same enemy. But we're so busy turning around shooting the people behind us and beside us, we can't enjoy the fact that, that we are in a last days battle. And these guys on YouTube, they're fighting the wrong battles. These guys don't want any accountability, but they want everybody else to have it.

[A]

Okay, we'll come back to the ungodly loyalty in just a second. So this is where I am now. In a strange position, strang position perhaps, where during this interview, Greg Locke is suggesting that, you know, YouTubers like, let's be honest, like Mike Winger, they're ungodly. They're doing it for clicks and likes. They're doing it for selfish, carnal motives. And at the same time, at the same time, it's wrong to attack people publicly. We're what? We're a team. How dare you attack people publicly. And also they're ungodly and their motives are carnal and they don't know what they're talking about. Insinuating that guys like Me actually hate Benny Hinn. And that's the reason. That's the reason why we make these videos. And this is from someone who seemingly did not even watch the video, doesn't know about the victims, doesn't seemingly care. Care about the victims. So why is he defending Benny Hinn? Ungodly loyalty here. He says it himself.

[C]

So I don't know what these guys are going to do, but they can say what they want to. If my picture and Benny Hinn's picture is on the same flyer, they may freak out, but I'm not going to because he's my friend and I'm going to stand with my friends. I'm a loyalist, right? I'm a guy that when Greg Lock's your friend, he's going to be your friend to the end, unless you decide to burn the absolute, absolute relationship to the ground, right? And he's my friend. And I'm on this podcast right now because I'm your friend. I'm Charisma's friend. I'm Pastor Benny's friend. I love him.

[A]

There's a lot more you can say there. I'll put the link to the video down below. We'll see if it stays up. They removed the one on Facebook, the one on YouTube. Still there. Don't ask me why. I'll put that interview down below. Much deception going on in that interview. And yet there is him saying I'm a loyalist. This is, this is the only motive I can see with Greg in this is there's a sense of loyalty that has shifted. He once was critical of charismatics, then he sort of bec charismatic strong, like extreme charismatic. And now he has a sense of loyalty to these people. So he's coming against me, it seems, without even considering the evidence, without considering the testimonies, and then railing against me for hating people. I don't understand. It's weird, it's hypocritical. And it's been the standard of COVID up culture that this is what you get. You get leaders who feel that they're sort of orbiting around the outskirts of the direct criticisms. So Benny Hinn's got it, Bon Johnson's got criticism, you know, somebody else has criticism. And there's people who are nearby, but not directly in the mud. They go to the defense of those guys and their loyalty spills over. They ignore the accusations, they ignore the witnesses, they ignore the testimony. That has been his involvement. Now, I haven't publicly done much. I tweeted one time about this and I said, shame on you. And I listed a bunch of specific things he did in this interview that were shameful. I did do that. And again, Greg Locke has routinely defended people that I believe he should not defend Todd White. Oh, my goodness. This mountain of evidence and testimony and witnesses that I brought forward about Todd White, the biblical standard, as he complains about people not wanting to follow Scripture. The actual biblical standard is that you have the testimony of many witnesses about a leader. You then discipline them publicly in the presence of all. But instead, Gray wants to suppress that, and he wants to defend Todd White. Landon Schott, who's also rebelling against the scripture on these issues of accountability. And I am open to being accountable. Right. In fact, I'm. In a sense, I'm asking for it when I make these videos, because this is what happens is people go, oh, yeah, now the spotlight's on you, Mike, because you made noise. I want to make it clear, though, that I offered to talk to Greg Locke multiple times. So I'm going to put on your screen a couple different specific times where I was like, hey, let's talk this. I won't get too much into the weeds is about Pastor Greg Locke. He was complaining that I had not been more. More friendly to him when we met in a. On a. In a surprise meeting. When I did, I was surprised to meet him. And I didn't respond with, like, incredible, like, gushing kindness. That's. That's true. That's true. I was a little caught off guard. And what I know about him is pretty. Pretty unpleasant. And so I was not ready to glad hand him and pretend that everything was okay. I was not rude to him. I was not mean to him. I was just not going to be dishonest. Anyways, he complained there, and I just responded by saying, hey, if you want to have a conversation about this, please reach out. You probably know someone who has my number, which is true. Or you could message me through my website, if possible, bring any example of significant things I've gotten wrong. And I told Greg Locke, as he says, I want no accountability. I will publicly apologize and set the record straight. So this was in February of this year. February 6th of this year. Then there was another time where I offered to speak to Greg Locke privately and offer myself to be accountable to. To anything that he felt I should be accountable to. And it was in this tweet of March 13th where I updated people on the Todd White stuff. Sorry, guys, if this is in the weeds. In addition to exposing Todd White, my ministry offered $100,000 to pay for an independent third party investigation into Todd White, which could exonerate him and show he's innocent. And I would stand condemned by that report. That we would pay for this was at the request of many of the witnesses who said nothing will happen if they don't do an independent investigation. They'll just keep covering it up. But they're going to tell us, Mike, that Todd's ministry can't afford the investigation. That'll be the excuse. And so I met with the board, I said, hey, guys, is it right if I do this as a one time thing? And they said, yes, it's okay. We think it's going to benefit the body of Christ in a bigger way than just with Todd White. Well, I just updated, people. Hey. Todd White's ministry not only will not do the $100,000 offer accepted for the investigation, they also will not talk to me at all. They will not respond to me in any way, shape or form. And that still remains the case today. This is the Todd White that Greg Locke defends. And tons of witnesses, including former CEO, former staff members, former. Everybody says he's the most prolific liar they've ever met. And Greg Locke defends him. So he says to me in response to this, the likelihood of any of this obtaining a well done is literally zero. I'm not really offended, guys. I'm really not. This is about public accountability. I'm accountable too. So what did I do? I replied and said, if you want to talk to me, I'm here. Unlike Todd, with me, I'd get on the phone with you, right? Because I tried to talk to Benny Hinn. Didn't work. Tried to talk to Todd White. Didn't work. Tried to talk to Jesus image, leadership, Michael Kulianos in particular. Didn't work. I've tried to talk to Bethel leadership, Bill Johnson, Chris Valatin. Didn't work. They don't want to talk to me. Well, in more recent times, Greg Locke decided to issue a challenge to me to not just talk, but to sit down and have like basically a debate. What sounds like it would just basically be a debate. I'm gonna show you why that happened. Okay? Why did he challenge me to a debate? It started off with these videos that resurfaced when me and him were interacting on Twitter. And he says, I'll just share it all with you guys. He said that it was exhausting, that me doing these exposure videos was exhausting. And my reply to him was, I haven't even begun to exhaust you because in honesty, I'm not done with these videos. And I'm not going to be done or cowed into stopping because people just are irritated by me, like Greg Locke, and who are willing to say that I'm, you know, have a divisive spirit or if they're willing to say I'm spirit of Jezebel, or like Greg Locke, who calls me a vampire and blood sucker and a bunch of other stuff. So I said, I haven't begun to exhaust you. And the reason for this is again, just because I was going to continue doing videos, not videos about him, just videos, because I wasn't planning on doing a Greg Locke video at any point. This, this is when things escalated more because people started posting videos of Greg Locke that I had not yet seen. And in these videos, Greg Locke made some huge accusations against Benny Hinn and against Kenneth Copeland. Sorry, excuse me, not Benny Hinn. Against Joel Osteen and Kenneth Copeland and against Kenneth Copeland. He said Kenneth Copeland was a. I forget these terms, being crass or whatever they may sound like to you, but a rapist, a pedophile and a sex trafficker. And that he had of this, this is the important bit. He said he had proof of it and that it was on a hard drive. And he had it so escalated that he's aware of the fact that he may be killed because of this. You know, that's how he's presenting it to the audience, that he will actually have a kill switch engaged on his devices so that it gets sent to whoever it needs to be sent to to go public. So he has evidence of Kenneth Copeland being rapist, pedophile and sex trafficker. He also said he had evidence of Joel Osteen being a pedophile.

[B]

Kenneth Copeland, the most powerful pastor in America at lowdown. Sorry, sex tr. Rapist. I'll show the pictures I've got, call them all out when I have to.

[C]

You say, oh my goodness. You mean to tell me that Joel Osteen, he's that way with women? No, I'm here to tell you, Joel Osteen's that way with boys. By the way, you ever heard of a dead man switch? Well, just in case they come and try to suicide me, I got one them let them chase me down, huh? It'll all go on the Internet, every last drop of it. H.

[B]

And I'm telling you, they are going to drag them out of their pulpits kicking and screaming in handcuffs. And you can tell Joel Osteen I said so, cuz he's one of them. He's a pedophile and a crooked. Everybody knows it. And I don't care how mad you get, you can leave anytime you want to. Joel Osteen belongs in prison. And if that makes you nervous, you can go to First Baptist or Joy

[C]

or any other church in this town.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Now, these are huge claims with evidence. And if he's telling the truth, there's victims who need to be defended, and this has to be exposed. And if he's lying, then Greg has to be exposed. And to make matters even worse, to make matters even worse, like, he not only said he had evidence, he had pictures. He had a kill switch. He would. He wished they would sue him and take him to court, because then he would put it in their face and prove it to them, and they know he's telling the truth. To make matters worse, he then says to his own congregation, if I'm lying, I will quit preaching. I will step down as pastor if

[B]

I'm lying, I'm telling you, you mark my word right, I'll step down as your pastor if it ain't true. I'm telling you right now, I'll stop preaching if what I'm telling you is not true. And you know why that dirty crook will not sue me? Because he knows I'm telling the truth.

[A]

The stakes are high. He recognizes the stakes are high. I merely said, greg, if this is true, you should present the evidence. Victims are at stake. I called the FBI myself. I made a report. I know others did as well, and said, you should present the evidence. Because you didn't just say this. You said you had evidence. He would not respond to me on Twitter. He would not reply to me. I'm asking him repeatedly, greg, please present the evidence. This isn't just about us. Isn't just about you or me or whatever beef you think we have. I will defend you if you feel like you need support going forward with evidence of someone doing these kinds of things. On the contrary, if you're lying about these guys, even though I'm very opposed to Kenneth Copeland, even though I have a lot of serious issues with Joel Osti, you can't lie about them like this. You have to publicly clear their names, because this is this stuff circulating online. So he would not go forward. He would not respond to me. In fact, at one point, he finally responds, and he says, I owe you nothing, Mike. I don't owe you any response at all. Put that on your screen. He finally responds and says, I owe you zero information about anything. You're so hungry for more stories, you'll just Keep on going no matter what. Enjoy your life. Ride the fame. The rock will roll back on you eventually. Very condemning language about what I've been working on, what I'm doing. Again, Greg sees me as the problem here. Not these guys that are actually abusing people and leading trails of victims in the name of Christ and faking prophecy and all kinds of other stuff. But I responded because it's not about me, Greg. You keep making it about me and you. It's not about that. You owe me nothing. I agree. That's true. However, as a leader and protector, you owe it to the victims to come forward with evidence if you have it. Or you owe it to those men to apologize if you were lying. Okay, now you're almost caught up to where we're at so far. This is shortly after this where Greg issues me an actual challenge. And I'm going to read this to you. I think it's going to be interesting to see the nature of his supposed challenge. So here it comes. Greg has not reached out to me personally or privately in any way, shape or form yet. He says, I challenge Mike Winger to a live sit down. Like, actually together in the same room. We can use both of our platforms to stream it. YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, X Rumble, all of them. Uncut, Raw, and nothing off, off limits, straight Bible. What about it, Mike? You've purposely tried to destroy lives, ministries, and reputations, including my own, with the situation you know nothing about. You act cute and calm behind all of your heavily edited videos. Have a real conversation. Balls in your court. Lots I could say about this, but I'll just skip to the end. I said, I'll do it if Ruslan moderates. Why did I want Ruslan to moderate? Because Greg Locke had previously challenged a guy named Dean Odolf, a flat Earther, to a debate. And the guy showed up at Greg Locke's church. And Greg Locke, there, controlling the stage, controlling the mic, controlling the crowd, shuts off Dean's mic and kicks him off stage. Boom. The guy's shut down. And then he just starts spiritually, you know, calling down judgment upon the guy. I'm like, nah, I'd rather actually have a conversation. So I wanted a moderator. And then everything went silent. Okay, I also made a video. I guess I could. I'll play that video here. You can see the video I made where I did a video response to just say, yeah, let's do this. Well, real quick, Greg Locke has asked me, challenged his words, challenged me to a discussion, sit down in person to talk about. He said anything and everything. I'm willing to do this, Greg, if we can focus it on things that are actually important. My original concern is that you make claims that pertain to the safety of children, minors, victims. And if the stuff you said about Joel Osteen or Kenneth Copeland is true, then you need to present the evidence, man, and go forward with it. And if it was lies, if it was not true, then you need to clear their names. Because even if I disagree with them on things and think they're Copeland in particular is a bad guy, that doesn't mean that we can make stuff up about people. And so I'm asking for you to do the right thing. However, if this conversation is part of a way of doing that, then I'll agree to it. If we can get Ruslan to be the guy that does the moderating, we need a moderator who can make sure it's not just on, you know, under my control or under your control. I think he'd be a good guy to do it. He said he's up for it and he's omitting moderated stuff like debates or discussions before. And it's focused, it's about something specific, you know, has some structure. I'd be willing to do it under those conditions. So you asked, that's my answer. And can we make, try to make this fruitful for the body of Christ? I feel like Greg wants to constantly be in the mud with me, and I would rather address the issues in a mature fashion. I'm just being honest here. There's the video, how I responded. And keep in mind, Greg has called me a blood sucking vampire because of the work that I've been doing exposing cover up culture. Well, after I said that I was willing to meet with Greg, Greg went silent. He was already texting back and forth with Ruslan. Ruslan was going to be able to schedule this and he was going to arrange it. He was trying to figure out locations and stuff for it. But Greg just totally went silent. He stopped even responding to messages from Ruslan. He didn't respond to my public acceptance of his challenge, his idea. I think he didn't think I'd say yes. I think he thought that he thinks I am just like, weak, you know, like. Like what they said about Paul, like, oh, he's. His presence is weak, his letters are powerful. I think he thought, like, I'm strong in video, but I would be like, weak and not accept his challenge. I'm guessing that's what it is because all of a sudden he was not Interested in meeting, it seemed. So I waited two full days. No word from him. No word from him. Checking back, any word, any word. And I just posted online, hey, it's been two days. Haven't heard from Greg Locke. And I let people know today. This morning I wake up. That was yesterday. This morning I wake up and Greg Locke has responded. And his response is as follows. I'll share this with you guys and I'm just gonna be done with the whole thing. I said, Greg no longer wants to challenge me. I'm finding out the same way as you by reading a very misleading post. Let's look at the misleading post together. Public statement from Pastor Greg Locke. My response to Mike Winger's recent attack. Again, I merely made a video saying if these things are true, you should present evidence because victims lives are at stake. And if these things are false, you should publicly apologize and repent because you're defaming people who are innocent. That's it. That's it. It's not an attack, Craig. I could. I could easily attack you. There's so much dirt on you floating around out there. I couldn't. I could have. I could do it. Now I don't. In recent days, Mike Wingers publicly called me out regarding a video I posted four years ago addressing serious allegations against Kenneth Copeland and Joel Osteen. Actually, there was two videos, not just one. This situation has been public for years and could have been addressed by by him at any time. Okay. Actually, I only just found out about it. I had never heard this before. The day I found out about it, I started asking Greg privately, or I mean not privately, but in a smaller fashion on Twitter. Hey man, can you clarify this? Like is this true? Is it not true? You know, one way or the other you should be like exposing things or you should be repenting for what you said. And he would not. He ignored me and then tells me he owes me no answer. The moment I found out I appealed to him. He did not do anything. He just blustered. Now he's pretending like I've known about this for years. Now he's going to insinuate my motives or something. It is only resurfaced now after I challenged his continual public exposures and interruptions within the body of Christ. I owe him in the public no further personal information or private meetings on this matter. I don't know about owing anything to anybody or whatever. That's just weird language. But it's implied here that the reason this is Greg. He's just in the mud, man. He Just drags you in the mud. The reason that this is coming forward is not because he challenged me. This is why in the beginning of this video I showed you guys two years ago, the guy was ripping on me and defending people. He's done this repeatedly with other people. Paula White, you know, Todd White, Landon Schott, just some of the names that he's done this with repeatedly. He's come at me, he's called me again, a blood sucking vampire. He's insinuated things about my motives that are simply not true. He's gone after me with no evidence and with a lot of misleading information. And I did almost nothing. I won tweet in response to him or I'd reply to him maybe. I've never made a video about the guy. I found out about this incredible stuff, these accusations. I said, what if it's true? Because I know some stuff behind the scenes about some situations that just make me go, let's not discount it unless we know right there's a possibility. And if it's not true, he should publicly apologize because these videos are still floating around anyway. Here we go. He says, here's how he arrived at this moment. All right, now is where he starts to deceive the world. Several individuals approached my wife and me with grave concerns about these men and their ministries. That's Copeland and Osteen. Chief among them was a woman who presented what she described as detailed timelines, photographs, and first hand accounts of alleged criminal activity. She presented what she described as. Wait, did she describe these as photographs or were they photographs? Did she describe them as first hand accounts or did they see things that were actually looking like they were first hand accounts? This is muddy. We don't know. But whatever he says next, it's impossible for it to be true if what he said previously to his church was true. Importantly, he says, none of this material was ever placed in my personal possession, forwarded to me, or stored on any of my devices. It remained their story to tell. This is. Oh, my gosh, man, you're just being ridiculous, Greg. You told your congregation and you said, I will. You said, I will step down as your pastor and I'll quit preaching if I'm. If I'm lying, if I'm not telling

[C]

the truth, I'm telling you.

[B]

You mark my word, right? I'll step down as your pastor if it ain't true. I'm telling you right now, I'll stop preaching if what I'm telling you is not true. And you know why. That dirty crook will not sue me because he knows I'm telling the truth.

[A]

And you told them that you had the evidence in your possession, not you knew someone who claimed they had the evidence. You told people that Copeland was rapist, sex trafficker, pedophile, which now you're retracting. Now he's retracting, guys. Okay, so don't take Greg Locke as a source on Copeland being those things. But you told him this and said that you had evidence on your computer and. And that that evidence had a kill switch on it and that it would go public if you were assassinated.

[B]

That blow down. Sorry. Sex trafficking rapist. I'll show the pictures I've got.

[C]

You ever heard of a dead man switch? Well, just in case they come and try to suicide me, I got one them. Let them chase me down, huh? It'll all go on the Internet, every last drop of it.

[A]

You were fabricating evidence. You were fabricating evidence that didn't exist. You now admit, based on your admission, I should say, this is a big deal. It goes to your integrity, it goes to your character. It goes to whether or not you should continue. Because what on earth. This is what I call cover up culture. You won't just deal honestly and say, guys, I made that up. I heard some stuff, I thought it was true, and then I made up a bunch of extra stuff to make it stronger because I was just being evil from the pulpit. And I'm sorry. You didn't do that. Now you're lying about what happened. You're lying. This is deceitful. This is ongoing deceit. And this is what happens at the coverup culture. It's not that they never admit anything. It's that they had never admit the truth. They never admit the truth about what has happened. So let's read the rest of this statement. We simply viewed what they chose to show us in those moments and did not take ownership of it. I don't even know what that means. You took ownership of it when you went to your congregation and said, I have the proof, and I hope they sue me because I'll present the evidence and I have a kill switch. Believing these claims to be credible and urgent at the time, I spoke out boldly in that video. What followed was, and this I don't believe. Four years of careful, prayerful investigation. Wait, you're telling me you investigated Copeland and Osteen for four years straight? Does anyone believe that? As we pressed for verification and sought legal counsel, the stories began to shift and unravel. What stories? It's your story that's shifting and unraveling. Now you're blaming it on these other people. You said you had evidence. You said there was a kill switch. You said you hoped they sued you because you had evidence, not claims. Key details changed, commitments were withdrawn. And it became clear that my voice had been leveraged because of my public platform for reputation and boldness. And reputation for boldness. I was not being given truth. I was being used as an amplifier. So he's the victim. Greg's the victim. Guys, it's Greg. Maybe this is why Greg thinks that I'm going off half cocked on everything. Maybe this is why Greg thinks that Mike Winger doesn't have evidence. He doesn't watch my videos, it seems. And then he knows that this is what he's done in the past and he assumes that I'm doing the same thing. Maybe he says I was not being given truth. I was being used as an amplifier. I have owned this publicly on multiple occasions. I've stood before our church and repented for speaking where I should have first verified. Okay, you have not, to my knowledge, ever owned publicly that you deceived your church. Nah, nah. Not failed or accidentally communicated something that wasn't true, that you thought was true. You deceived your church. That you had in your possession evidence of sex trafficking, pedophilia and other rape behaviors from Kenneth Copeland and of pedophilia from Joel Osteen. Like, this is. Dude, you created this problem. It's all you now. You could have solved it by simply in a tweet a few days ago going, I made it up. I was being wicked. I've repented and I publicly apologize. And I've sought for forgiveness from them privately as well. I'm glad that I could clear the air. That's what you had to do. That was now. There should be consequences for those kinds of things, but this video would not be being made. Okay, you're actively deceiving people about this and you're involving me in it now, too. So there you go. Privately, he says, I have sought reconciliation with a number of the individuals and families involved. I don't know what that means. It's vagaries a number. Okay? 22 years ago, I wrote a book sharply critical of Benny Hinn. That's not what I'm talking about here. A few years ago, I sat with him face to face, apologized, and discovered a man far different from the caricature I had helped perpetuate. I believe that Benny Hinnis is, as I've described him, based upon all the Evidence. I've shared that same spirit of humility. Imagine talking about your own spirit of humility. That same spirit of humility and pursuit of truth has guided my private efforts over these past four years. He's describing himself. I have a spirit of humility, and I'm in a pursuit of truth. After prayerful counsel with my spiritual advisors, I've decided it is not wise to sit down with Mike Winger, despite my earlier public challenge on X to do so. Their unanimous recommendation is rooted in the fruitlessness of further engagement on a matter that has already been thoroughly examined. No, it has not. Repented of and largely resolved in private. No, it has not. My commitment remains the same today as it has been for decades. Preach the gospel, protect the flock. Really? And walk in integrity. You're just at the end of this. He's just saying, I'm humble. I pursue truth. I'm a preacher of the gospel. I protect the flock. I walk in integrity. And wherever I've been wrong, it's already fixed. He says, where I've been wrong, I've repented. And where I've been misused, I've learned. Because he's the victim in that right, and where reconciliation is possible, I continue to pursue it quietly and sincerely. Grace and truth to all. Pastor Greg Locke. This is the biggest gaslighting thing. It's not true. What's the takeaway, and why am I even bothering to make all this stuff? The takeaway is that the accusations against Copeland and Osteen from Greg Locke seem as though they were baseless all along. And that's important that we magnify that, because the accusations themselves have been magnified, and they were already. Apparently, a lot of people knew about them. He says it was all public, and he supposedly publicly repented of it. Not in any kind of sufficient fashion. That's important to know. Okay, so that error is cleared. These accusations were based on falsities, and Greg Locke lied through his teeth when he said he had evidence. He lied through his teeth when he said he had a kill switch and he had all the evidence and pictures on his own hard drive and stuff like that. He says now it was never in his possession, and he never had it in the first place. He did. However, if he's a man of his word, he told his congregation that he would step down as pastor and that he would quit preaching if these things were not true.

[B]

I'm telling you, you mark my word, right? I'll step down as your pastor if it ain't true. I'm telling you right Now I'll stop preaching if what I'm telling you is not true.

[A]

That is the kind of bold faced lie. This is the kind of guy who's telling a lie and in order to make it believable, he swears on his mother's soul or something like that, like says something super, super big to try to make it more believable. And now Greg does not want accountability for himself. I think the reason why this video should be made is because even though it's muddy and it's in the mud, because that's where Greg is, I think it should be made because cover up culture is real and Greg Locke is one of the people who comes in the periphery and he's going to like be a rescuer to others. And Landon shot does the same thing. And they've got their own issues. And we all have issues. I don't just mean we all have issues. And your pastor needs grace and kindness and love and forgiveness. And we need to forgive even leaders who fall, if that forgiveness is informed by holiness and by actual repentance and by accountability and consequences that are appropriate. There can still be this grace in the sense of like, we want you to be restored to the body of Christ even if you're not restored to the pulpit. Because sometimes you can be and sometimes you can't be. But Greg Locke has participated in the COVID up culture. And now when I was going to confront him and I was going to actually sit there and talk to him face to face at his request, he got cold feet. Because I'm going to guess he realizes it was not going to go well with him, Greg Locke. Hopefully he'll stay out of it now. And there's others that would say more. There's people reached out like Mike. You need to do more on Greg Locke. I just don't have the time. Others can do stuff. I just don't have the time. If I hated you, I could share all kinds of other stuff about you, Greg. I don't man. Now, I'll tell you this. My appeal to you, if you'll watch this video, is what you're doing is reckless and unwise and you have joined yourself in loyalty to individuals who are ungodly. And you, it seems, may have some accountability issues on your own. I'm not going to get into all that. What I will say is this. You should at least watch the videos. You should at least watch the videos and look at the victims and look at how many people from within these ministries are stepping up to say, guys, this is ungodly. This is wrong. And know that your involvement in this stuff has been to further oppress victims and further suppress truth. And to do so because it seems you just. You're loyal, but you're loyal in an ungodly way. And that is. Man, if that isn't the core of COVID up culture, I don't know what is.