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The skeletons in Bethel's closet are now going to speak
05:50:17
How Shawn Bolz and his victims sent me down the rabbit hole to find generations of fakery, abuse, lies, and Cover-up Culture. Tons of evidence, tons of names. Light will shine. 0:00 Intro (I didn’t want to make this video)6:24 Going down the rabbit hole25:29 How Shawn was created1:00:52 The Evidence Shawn Faked it1:40:51 Three of Shawn’s former employees told me what he did to them2:08:14 Bethel lied to us3:14:13 The saga of Bob and Sally3:41:13 The “Trigger Video” (December 2023)3:51:25 Bethel finally responds. It’s not good.4:23:13 What I think is going on in the movement4:47:51 If you want to destroy my sweater…5:01:39 Skeletons in Bethel’s closet5:39:34 My call for extreme action from Charismatic leaders5:44:32 I couldn’t end it there My video on Bob Hartley and Bethel (his son speaks out): Click Here My video with Elijah Stephens is an in-depth, evidence filled appeal for change in the Charismatic church: Click Here My video on everything the Bible teaches about divorce and re...
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Transcript508 lines
- [00:00]
Mike Winger
Foreign.
- [00:10]
Narrator/Commentator
This video is not for everybody, but it's very important, I think, especially for the Charismatic Church and for Christians in churches to deal with abuse, fraud, cover up and the devastating breadth of it all. Sean Bowles, this guy right here, he was my white rabbit. Okay? This guy was my white rabbit. He's the rabbit I chased down the rabbit hole to see how bad things are in cover up Culture inside the Charismatic Church. The connections to all these different figures and years of stuff, generations of abusers, fraud and cover up in the Charismatic Church. Sean Bowles. So you're going to go down the same rabbit hole I went down. This started early last year and I've spent the last year dealing with and talking to victims and people who have been hurt and gathering evidence. I've talked to many of the people that Shawn victimized and spiritually abused. I'm going to be sharing their stories. I have evidence that has never been seen by anybody before. I've gathered that evidence and I'm going to be sharing it along with witness testimony from multiple people. His victims asked me to speak out on their behalf because the leaders in the Charismatic Church would not. And they participated, in my opinion, in cover up culture. But that can change. I'm doing this for the Charismatic Church. I love you guys. I believe in the gifts. I'll tell you more about that in a second. But buckle up because we're going to go deep into the rabbit hole and you need to hear the details because what happens is when someone like Sean is exposed, everybody just washes their hands of it and acts like they had no part in it. And that's not true. And if we don't show the connections, then we can't fix the problems. So I've gathered the evidence that shows how cover up culture handled it in the Charismatic Church. Not only Shambol's, but many, many other situations. And the elites all knew about it. They knew about Sean Bowles. The elites did. And they did nothing as far as warning their people. They left their people in the dark. People who had been prophesied to people who had been abused. They just left them alone or in the dark. This is going to be a long video. There will be timestamps down below to try to help you navigate things because it will just get crazier and crazier. I will continue to unpack different scenarios. Another witness, a different situation, tying it into another leader. This is just the way it's going to be. I hate this video. I hope you hate it too. This is all lame and terrible. And this is not my normal ministry stuff. I don't plan on continuing doing this forever. I just want to help the situation and then move on to back to Bible studies. That's my plan. So this is the story of lying in the name of God, of abusing the people of God, of domineering sexual harassment from shamboles, and not only the failure of respected leaders to warn and protect their own people, their followers from shambouls while they had previously propped him up as a prophet to them, but the fact that their system of leadership inside not every Charismatic, most of them would be appalled by the things I'm about to share with you. But there is a system amongst the elites that is dangerous. And their system of leadership in a culture of COVID up, it not only makes it so that they can't deal with someone like Sean Bolles a predator in their midst, but it actually creates them in the first place. It raises them up. They have a system of revival culture and a way of handling prophecy that I believe creates men like this over and over again. And it's going to keep happening over and over again. So I'm hoping to bring positive reform into the Charismatic Church. You may not agree with everything I share in this video. Those of you who are Charismatics, especially leaders watching this, fine. But glean what you can, find what you can that is beneficial to you and please consider how to stop this stuff from happening again inside your, your own fellowships and to your own people. Because it's not worth revival culture to victimize your own people and put them in front of fake prophets and tell them about fake healings and all this other stuff. It has to stop and it has to stop now. So I think this video will help that I do believe it. That's why I'm doing it for the benefit and blessings of the Charismatic Church. So I'm exposing a whole bunch of corruption inside the Charismatic Church. It has to be done because I've done this series of videos now and I'll continue with this series for a while, then I'll stop the series, get back to Bible studies and I will be very happy to do that. That because of that though, there is going to be slander coming against me personally because, you know, shoot the messenger kind of thing. So I just want to make a couple things really clear. I believe in the gifts. I'm not advocating against the use of the gifts of the spirit of prophecy or tongues or any of those things as long as they're done biblically and properly, which that I'm advocating for. And that does not often happen. I'm making no money from these videos, right? What I mean here is that on YouTube, there's no monetization on these videos. All these charismatics cover up culture videos I'm making. There's zero monetization. So it can make a million views. It will not make me any money. The money doesn't go to me anyways. It goes to the ministry and it doesn't affect my paycheck. I don't get like a ratio raise when there's more ad revenue that comes in. We have minimal ads because you should on YouTube or else YouTube doesn't promote your content as much. But this has to be done. And I'm not here to destroy the church. I'd actually like to see Sean repent. And I'd be so, so happy if any of the people I'm talking about repent. And I will champion them being forgiven and them being seen as cleansed by the Lord if there's real repentance. But the problem is these guys fake it all the time. They fake repentance all the time. So we need, we need proof here. I'm trying to follow what the Bible tells us to do. In First Timothy 5, 1920, it says the first part that the Charismatic church is already doing. It says, do not admit a charge against an elder. But they don't read the rest of it. Usually it says, except on the evidence of two or three or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, distance yourself from them. No, that's not what it says. Pretend that you have no part in their ministry or you didn't raise them up. No, that's not what it says. It says, rebuke them in the presence of all so that the rest may stand in fear. That is this kind of rebuke, what I'm bringing right now, about shambles. It's meant to cause all of the people, all of the leaders to go, I better walk, right? I better not manipulate. I better not fake my prophecies. I better not exaggerate my. My spiritual experiences. I better not do any of that stuff. And we need that kind of reform in the charismatic church big time. Okay, let's go down the rabbit hole. Sean Bowles, this is the guy, Sean Bolles, he's the guy that hears from God or pretends to hear from God, no matter who it hurts. Sean doesn't come off like a highbrow prophet, though. He was like the boy wonder. I'll tell you more about this. I'll Tell you more about everything. It's all coming out today. Text messages, secret recording, multiple witnesses. It's all coming out. It's all coming out. I've been sitting on this stuff for a while now, and it's time. So he doesn't come off like a highbrow prophet. Sean comes off like a normal dude, but he's one who's literally getting revelation from God on a continual basis. That's the thing. I'm just a normal guy. But, man, he hears from God. He can tell you without ever meeting you. He will tell you your birthday, your street address, how many kids you have, the name of your pet, where your mom lives, and other private information. He'll tell you about things that you've done recently or hopes that you have in your heart. And he says it's all coming from God. He's like, I've never met you, but I know your number. But I know your name. But Lord, show me the name of your dog. It's Maverick. I know it. And you go and you think, wow, he's really speaking to me. God's speaking to me. So he convinced through this, what is ultimately a gimmick, he convinced countless people that he was a prophet. This was especially true when Bill Johnson platformed him at Azusa. Now, this platforming was a big deal. Here, let me show it to you. At this event in 2016. This is where Bill Johnson put. That's Bill Johnson on stage there with shambles in front of countless people in this stadium and probably millions who saw it online. This event was. Was a big thing. He gets up there and he starts calling people out in. We'll look at some videos of this later. Calling people out in the audience. He calls out a name. He tells them their life story. He tells them God's calling them to be a missionary to this place and go here. And it was just an amazing, amazing event. Look at how Bill introduced him. Because I want us to understand that Bill Johnson has responsibility for Sean Bowles.
- [08:35]
Mike Winger
But we're also weaving in the prophetic. And one of our dearest friends, one of our most trusted friends is Sean Bowles. And the Lord's shown him several things.
- [08:45]
Narrator/Commentator
That's how he got introduced. Why? Because people know and trust Bill Johnson. Bill Johnson is one of the most respected leaders in the Charismatic Church right now. He is seen as a safe man, a man who is gentle, who is incredibly loving, who never says a bad word about anybody. This is his reputation, like you will. You'll never hear him say a bad word. About a single human being in his entire life. Which of course makes it so that his congregation would think a video like what I'm doing is inherently wrong because Bill's such a nice guy. So it's an interesting, interesting method of self protection, if you ask me. But Bill introduces him this way. Now at the same time. It was not too long after this where Chris Valatin, his number two guy at Bethel, was texting one of their. One of the victims of Sean Bowles. And he told them and showed him the following. Let me put it on your screen. This was in January 9th of 2021. He says, I told him, Sean Bowles, he needs to clean up his mess before he has a relationship with any of our people. I've also told our entire team that they are not to not minister with Sean or have him in any of their ministries. I've also had a conversation with Bethel Music leadership team and told them about Sean's situation. They've agreed to ban him from their ministry. I'm going to show you more of that text conversation later on in this video. But. But this is what has gone on. There has been the endorsement, then there was the distancing privately. But yet in 2023, Bill Johnson goes public again. And they've never, at this point in time in the timeline, they never made a public statement about Sean Bulls being any kind of problem. But in 2023, Bill Johnson goes with Sean Bulls on TBN and he says the following about Sean. But Bill, you wrote the foreword to this book. It's called Translating Hearing God's Voice for Yourself and the World around You. But you wrote that this was one of the most exciting books that you had read. Why was that?
- [10:44]
Mike Winger
Well, the book by itself is incredible. Knowing the life that backs it up adds a power to it because it's so practical. It's what you dream of. It's like if you could see if you could have a perfect relationship with the Lord and see its impact on humanity, that's what it would look like. I get excited knowing that we could actually raise up generations of people to do the same thing.
- [11:10]
Narrator/Commentator
We'll go all the way into the rabbit hole today. But Bill endorsing him like this, you will see very clearly was an atrocious and evil act. Atrocious and evil. He set him up as a prophet to the world. He later had Chris, Chris Valatin under his ultimate leadership, even calling Sean Zabor going, he needs to be pulled out of ministry. He cannot do any events with us. He can't be anywhere near our team. But publicly, they wouldn't say a word about him. And when they were asked about it, they made it sound like it was sort of nebulous. And who knows what's really wrong with this guy? Then Bill goes and endorses him.
- [11:50]
Mike Winger
Well, the book by itself is incredible. Knowing the life that backs it up adds a powerful. If you could have a perfect relationship with the Lord and see its impact on humanity, that's what it would look like.
- [12:01]
Narrator/Commentator
What we find out, though, is that victims of Sean had reached out to Bethel leadership and asked them for help. And ultimately they decided, not our problem. And here's the thing. Pastors have to protect their people. If in my church, somebody was targeting the flock there that I'm part of, I would feel the obligation to protect them. Especially if you're the leader, you're the pastor, you're the supposed prophet. Chris is supposed to be the prophet of Bethel, yet he's not protecting his people. His reputation is one of prophetic integrity. It's not real. Bill's reputation is one of safety. It's not real. And it needs to be exposed because it's a broader problem that goes bigger than Bethel, even though Bethel's really big. They're one of the most influential charismatic churches on the planet as far as other people taking their lead, learning their practices, and. And trying to copy them, which I find to be a hazardous path. So in 2022, right, a year, approximately, not even quite a year before Bill Johnson goes and publicly endorses Sean Bowles again on tbn, I have a secretly recorded conversation where Stacey Campbell, another one of the prophetesses in the charismatic movement, and is giving a list of all the people in the leadership who know about Shawn and how dangerous Shawn is.
- [13:22]
Stacey Campbell
Wolves is utterly and totally dangerous. Patricia King, who told Che and who told Chris Valatin, told these gross stories of sexual immorality of Sean Boltz. I know this from Chris's direct mouth. He said, as far as I'm concerned, Sean Boltz is a deceiver and I will not have him back or I trust him. And so I'm concerned for you because I love you. I'm giving you the warning that he's dangerous, his behavior is bad, he's been caught red handed, and he's unrepentant. He's not only dangerous for the body of Christ, that a lot of times the people that affiliate with them go down. When they go down, every single bit of information that Sean prophesied, you could find it on page one. Page Two, if you just googled, you could find the whole thing. And there was nothing that Sean was prophesied that was wrong. That was from unknown revelation. It was holding on. And so he sent me a document probably 20 pages long. This is what Sean said. This is on the front page of their Facebook pages. This is on the second page. If you Google the person that is their son that you find it, you know, I mean, it just. It was all there, and it was highly incriminating, and in a court of law.
- [15:06]
Narrator/Commentator
I'm going to play that recording for you later. This is a very, very big deal, because if they all knew and they wouldn't tell you guys, it uncovers something real about the fact that, what else do they know? Who else do they know about? Because I'll tell you, I could give you a list of names of people who should be publicly called out and who, when leaders knew, didn't do it. They didn't do it with Todd Bentley when they should have done it. They didn't do it with Bob Hartley when they should have done it. They didn't properly do it with Paul Kane or Mike Bickle or I could just keep going on, or William Branham, if you want to go really back to people who died before I was born. It's been going on for a long time. So if Bill would endorse Sean, who else would he endorse? While overlooking serious issues, who else would he put up as an incredible. The life behind the book is just. It bears witness and all this kind of garbage, which is not true. I have even spoken to some of the leaders in the movement, and they told me one of them in particular, I won't give his name, but a leader in the charismatic movement who told me, mike, if we really start calling out all the guys that we know are doing, like, not just have sin issues. I want to be gracious to leaders who have sin issues, because we all do. And so do I. But, I mean, people who are like, they're defrauding the people of God, they're lying in the name of God. Because if we were to call them all out, it would devastate our movement. We'll do it. Call them out. You have to. All of you have to do it. Stop making people who aren't even part of your movement do it. Do it yourselves. That will bring integrity back to your movement. This video, though today's video, is dedicated ultimately to the victims of Sean Bowles. The many victims of Sean Bowles. I've talked to three different people who had marriages that they entered into because Sean prophesied to them to get married, even though they say they don't do that sort of thing apparently happens a lot. And they were disasters. So they got married because of a prophecy and it exploded in their faces, including one named Jubilee Dawn. Let's listen to her story now so you can get an idea of the people that I care about right now. Because for priority of who is more to be cared for, loved and protected right now, it is not Sean Bowles. It is Jubilee Dawn. So we're going to look into what Jubilee dawn says here. This is going to be her story. It's in detail. She got married because Sean Bowles. She believed in Sean Bowles because of Bill Johnson. And she almost was killed by her husband. That shambles said God was giving her to that man. I'm going to tell you about how it directly impacted my life and almost killed me. In 2015, I was dating a man, let's call him Ted, and we had only been dating for about a month. So this church conference happened, and I am still getting to know this guy. He was 10 years older than me. It's a long story, but essentially at this conference, my ex was called out by Sean Bowles. And I'm going to play that clip for you. Now.
- [17:55]
Mike Winger
When you handed me the phone last night, I saw 50, but I know that 50 is Jubilee year. There's something about God's giving you a Jubilee. What does that mean to you? Oh, your girlfriend's name is Jubilee. That's awesome. Well, God's giving you this girl. And when we ordered the food this morning, they the by the way.
- [18:13]
Narrator/Commentator
So he starts off by, you know, God's giving you a Julie. Well, I. He always acts shocked. You're going to see this many times. He always likes to act surprised. I don't believe a single one of these prophecies came from God. I think he's been data mining for years and years and years and years. And you learned it from Paul Kane and Bob Jones and the other guys who did it before him. And that's my theory. Now, not everybody agrees with me, not even everybody I've talked to agrees with me about this. But let me share with you guys the evidence. Jubilee will give you some reasons to think that this was all made up. But imagine in the moment, you're just in the audience and you hear this prophet, God's giving you a Jubilee. Oh, God's giving you that girl. You hear this, and then you tell your girlfriend this. Of course, she Marries you, Of course. She thinks, I can never leave you. No matter if you strangle me, I can never leave you.
- [19:01]
Mike Winger
This is a huge, huge advertisement in the midst of prophesying. And it's a prophetic advertisement that that Tomato Pie Cafe place is like Levelton awesome. And we've been eating there for the mornings, and it's like they've been bringing us very kindly enough, and they're amazing. But does she have something to do with the Tomato Pie Cafe? Does she? She works. Okay, Right. Jubilee from Tomato Pie Cafe.
- [19:20]
Narrator/Commentator
So that is the clip, and that is where he said that God was giving him Jubilee. Now, in hindsight, I know that where I worked was on Facebook. The fact that we were in a relationship was also on Facebook. And he had met my ex the day before, so he was able to go home and find all that information. It's hard to put into words how highly esteemed this man is in these religious circles. Bethel being the main hub of these religious circles. And essentially you just kind of believe that anything that this man says is like the word of God, because he was a very esteemed prophet and had a stamp of approval from Bethel. We ended up getting married later that year, and he immediately turned abusive. And I suffered through about four years of horrible physical, spiritual, mental abuse. And it was absolutely traumatic. And he ended up strangling me a couple years into our marriage. And I did not leave this relationship because of what Sean Bulls said. I thought that God wanted me to be with this man. And it was mental anguish to unpack all of that. Obviously, I've deconstructed a lot since leaving Bethel, but at the time, I was still drinking the coffee Kool Aid and thought that this prophet knew what God's will was. So it took the second time that he strangled me for me to finally leave. And even in leaving, I was so tormented by this decision because I didn't know if I was outside of the will of God. He strangled me for the last time in January 2020, and I wasn't able to swallow without pain for 10 days. And it was a very, very scary situation. Situation. Look up the statistics on your likelihood of being unalived after you have been strangled. I'm very lucky to be alive. She's entirely correct here. So order of events. Right. Bethel endorses the guy. She's at Bethel. She's a third year student at the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. You're fully committed when you're a third year student there. She's got an internship with Georgian Banov A guy who still platforms shambles even after everybody knew. Everybody knew. Well, in the leaders, none of us knew, right? Only the elites. They knew. And she hears this because of Bethel. She believes this word. She gets strangled. Now, I was a domestic violence counselor, which means I've had some training in that area. And strangulation is. Not only is it inherently a murderous act, but it can actually result in death even days later because of the residual swelling that happens after somebody is strangled. It is incredibly scary and dangerous and evil and murderous. And I do have a video on divorce and remarriage for those who would like to look at it. I think that from Jubilee's description, she was justified in fleeing for her life and leaving that man. That was appropriate. What's crazy is that it was 2020 when she finally left, right? But Bethel had information and evidence about Sean being a fraud in 2016. Probably earlier, probably. Who knows? Maybe 2008. I don't know. I just don't know, because they're not going to tell me. I don't think they're honest about these things. And I'll give you reasons to think this. I'm going to show some. What I would consider to be total deception from Chris Valatin later on. And just so happened in 2020 is when everything came out about Sean, but it came out behind the scenes and nobody said a freaking word. Word. Chris Falton is one of the heads of Bethel, and he is known for his prophetic ministry, and he has done many conferences with Sean Bowles. So essentially, it all came out in 2020, what he had been doing. Somebody had come and presented a bunch of evidence to Chris Falton, and he agreed that it was really bad and fishy, and he was fully convinced that Sean was a fraud. In 2020, they decided to silently distanced themselves from Sean. So they started to take his books out of the bookstore. They stopped doing conferences with him, but they never said a word to their congregation, which is absolutely outrageous. She's right here. She's correct. That is outrageous. But Bethel knew before that. I think that they knew. There's more that they knew in 2020, it seems, but they knew before that about the prophecy stuff. It was in 2016 stuff was even publicly being put online, but nobody believed it because the leaders didn't support it. The leaders didn't actually back up and go, hey, let's take a look at this. Let's examine these things. No, they just let him continue. They let him continue. And it seems as though Bethel's actions and everybody's actions since then have only been a reaction to things going public in a way that is meant to create damage control and self preservation. So that is the opposite of protecting your people. Sometimes ministries have to make choices between protecting the leaders and protecting those people who they lead. And you always pick the people. Jesus, he showed us how to lead. He laid his life down for the sake of the sheep. And we have to lay our lives down, even our reputations down, for the sake of the people that we are tasked to protect and to guard. But they didn't do that. They didn't want their reputations damaged, it seems. So. Jubilee story, just one of the many, many people that Sean has lied to, has deceived, has manipulated, and has used his words of knowledge to trick so many people who need to be warned because he, as a supposed prophet, he gave words to thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people. Life changing words. Well, I did a video already about with Elijah Stephens where he talked about his individual story. We went in great detail of his story and how Bethel misled him and it caused him a lot of harm, ptsd, it caused him marital issues. It caused him to lose basically their retirement. Imagine what it would be like to lose your retirement because you believe that you're on a task from God that Sean Bowles told you to do, and so you give everything you have to it because you're a genuine guy who really trusts the Lord. But you were lied to. And when you asked Bethel was I lied to, they dodge you and they know, but they don't want to tell you that happened to him. How many people does he represent, though? Let's talk about Bowles's history. Okay, this is the part of the video where we're going to dive deep into the history of Sean Bowles. We'll show him giving words of knowledge to people. You'll get to see what that experience looked like over and over again. And I want to show you the people that propped him up. I'm going to give you the names, give you the ministries that lifted him up, who all then just went silent and distanced themselves instead of protecting the people, the people that they put this false prophet in front of. Because you better believe if I put a false prophet on my YouTube channel, even, and then found out he was fake, I wouldn't just delete the video. I would have to put a warning out for the sake of the people who saw it. As much as that would be embarrassing, that's what's obvious and necessary. Okay, so Sean Bowles is history the history of Sean Bowles. He grew up in signs and wonders circles. He's been part of that movement and part of that stuff for as long as we're aware of. And he was connected to guys like Bob Jones and Paul Kane and Mike Bickle. He was really connected to these guys. They're all of them false prophets. All of them, in my opinion, false prophets. Now, some people say that the jury's still out. Best case scenario, Bob Jones, Paul Kane and Mike Bickle, where maybe there was some true gifting that was there from God. Best case scenario in one or two or even three of those situations. But they all used prophecy to sexually manipulate and take advantage of people. All of them. Bob Jones did this to two women I'll tell you about later. Paul Kane did it to employees where he pushed homosexual relationships onto employees and then would blackmail them and stuff. And Mike Bickel did this to even underage women for decades. Recently exposed. Mike Pickle. Those are his buddies. That's the circle he got raised up in. He worked with Paul Kane. You wonder what happened between him and Paul Kane. I think that's a fair question to ask. Sean obviously needs help, but he also has to be stopped. In 2013, though, Sean Bowles became like the guy. He's not just another Bob Jones even. He's not another Bickle. He's not another Paul Kane. He is the new guy. He's the new kind of prophecy guy, Right. This is next level. Nobody has ever been as prolific as Sean Bowles is. And he became like the wonder boy, the golden child of the charismatic movement at the time. And he's rising up. And it starts in 2013, right? Yep. There was the trigger point of 2016, the Azusa now event, but it started in 2013. And this is the kind of stuff he was doing. Let me just play for you some examples.
- [28:08]
Mike Winger
So I saw Michelle and then I saw a friend of mine from Singapore, Lim. Is that somebody Michelle Lim? Does that make sense to anybody? Are you Michelle Lam. That's good you're here. Thank you, Jesus. Praise the Lord. Do you have a September birthday by chance?
- [28:21]
Narrator/Commentator
Yes, September 20th.
- [28:23]
Mike Winger
Ah, that's awesome. As we're doing this is there. I saw the name Judah and I saw Judges Road. Is there a Judah who lives on Judges Road or where are you at? Judah?
- [28:37]
Narrator/Commentator
Okay. This is on the Bethel YouTube channel. This is where I got this from. They've been scrubbing all their content about Sean Bowles again. They're deleting and distancing things just recently because this Stuff I found after I started researching this stuff early last year. So, yeah, Judah, on Judges Road, he does these things. He finds out things about you, and then you feel amazed. Imagine you were in the room. Like, really imagine it, guys. You're in the room, and this guy is pumped up as a prophet from Bethel leadership. And then he gets on stage and he calls out your name, knows your address, says that God has a message for you. Thousands and thousands of people he's done this to.
- [29:14]
Mike Winger
Is this your street you live on? This is awesome. Is it. Is it somewhere like Louisiana or Texas or something? Texas. This is good. Only God, he knows where you live.
- [29:25]
Narrator/Commentator
Wow.
- [29:27]
Mike Winger
Is April 15th something to you? My birthday. Your birthday.
- [29:33]
Narrator/Commentator
You know, see the sign behind him? Young saints. He's doing this to children. Okay. He's doing this to kids.
- [29:42]
Mike Winger
Judah, God knew you would be here with your older brother. I see an older brother. Maybe Leon or Ryan. Ryan. I don't know if this makes sense for you. I saw Lewis and Clark July 26th. Does that make sense?
- [29:55]
Narrator/Commentator
So Sean likes to take things. He learns. This is my belief. Well, I mean, it's pretty. Seems pretty obviously true. Sean takes, you know, stuff he gets from people online, whether it's their address, and he'll try to connect their address to, like, a Bible verse or a psalm, or he'll take their last name or their first name, and he'll make a connection into something else, like abstract. And then he'll use that as the way of prophetically saying, oh, I knew that about you. So here he does it with Lewis and Clark.
- [30:20]
Mike Winger
Her last name was Clark. And I felt like you guys. What's July 26th? It's her birthday. My sister's birthday's in November, so I'm thinking maybe November 27th. There was something that's your anniversary. I'm glad you knew it. And, oh, she's from St. Louis. That's really interesting. Lewis and Clark. There she is. Is there somebody.
- [30:42]
Narrator/Commentator
More kid stuff here? In a second. Now, you might be thinking, already some of you in the audience are going like, yeah, Mike, it's obvious this guy's making stuff up. Oh, my sister's birthday's in November, so November 26th or whatever date. It seems obvious to you, but the people at Bethel and other churches in the charismatic movement sometimes have been desensitized to discernment. Discernment is the one thing you don't do, because discernment kills the momentum of our prophetic movement. Discernment kills our ability to have a revival culture. And it's because I think that the unique thing that Bethel and other. Some of the other, like, flagship, bigger charismatic church movements, some of the things that they offer that make them unique, that make them stand out amongst all the other charismatics as, like, wow, that's the place where the Holy Spirit's moving. Like, it's. I mean, it moves in our church, but. But over there, he's powerfully moving at Jesus Image Church or at Bethel. I think some of the reasons people believe that is because they're just faking stuff and they've smashed down the discernment of their audience so that they've been trained to be very gullible and receptive and undiscerning. Discernment needs to be brought back into the Charismatic church.
- [31:52]
Mike Winger
I think your name's Angelina, but you go by, like, Lena. Where are you?
- [31:56]
Narrator/Commentator
Hey.
- [31:56]
Mike Winger
You guys are all excited. This half of the room just gasped and was excited. I love that. How old are you? You're eight. How about May 3rd? Does that mean something to you? That's her birthday. God knows.
- [32:09]
Narrator/Commentator
Does that little girl matter to the Bethel leadership? Why didn't they tell everybody about how Sean used her blaspheme? God's name knows you.
- [32:20]
Mike Winger
He knows when you've been born. I've never seen you in my entire life that I know of. Do you have two sisters? Is there? I saw a friend of mine. Her name's Kelly, and I saw her standing on a road. Does that mean something? Like it's maybe a last name. Kelly, is that you? Kelly Rhodes. God knew you'd be here. I didn't, but God did. That's awesome. Hi. Kelly Rhodes. And how you've been like a good daughter to.
- [32:43]
Narrator/Commentator
So this is an event called More Love, more Power in 2017. Bulls had already been exposed. The guy trying to expose them had been attacked by Paul Kane, and that whole thing was shut down. The guy went into like, whole crisis situation in his life because without the strength and support of leaders, anybody who tries to expose someone like this just gets beat up. And that has happened too many Times.
- [33:04]
Mike Winger
Doris in January 27th. That's a birthday.
- [33:12]
Narrator/Commentator
Her mom's name and her mom's address. We'll come back to that one. Doris Rhodes. That's one of the best examples of what we can show. How Sean got his data. And because he made a big mistake on that one. I'll show it later. Here's another child that he's manipulating.
- [33:25]
Mike Winger
What's the 6th? Is that the birthday is on the 6th? Yay. This is God. This is a really random question. Is your mom or dad here? Raise your hand.
- [33:34]
Narrator/Commentator
Mom.
- [33:34]
Mike Winger
Is there something I could ask you too, Maddie, But Pope's head, does that make sense? What is. I saw the Pope's head. What is that? Oh, it's where you used to live. Oh, wow. Is there a Yanni and an Ian? Hello. Hi, I'm Yanni. My husband.
- [34:00]
Narrator/Commentator
Hi, I'm Ian.
- [34:01]
Mike Winger
Is there something about, like, isn't it
- [34:03]
Narrator/Commentator
interesting how he'll get names and he doesn't know how to pronounce them? Almost like he was reading them off of something like Facebook. We'll talk more about this. There's a reason why in 2013, that's when his prophetic gift took off. I'm going to give you all the whole story today. It's all kind of going to come out here.
- [34:22]
Mike Winger
December 11th or May 11th. Is it 11th or 12th? May 11th or 12th. Is that May 12th?
- [34:29]
Narrator/Commentator
My youngest son's birthday.
- [34:31]
Mike Winger
Oh, this is good. Do you guys have four kids?
- [34:34]
Narrator/Commentator
Yes. Do you see how the crowd reacts? Everybody's like, oh, my gosh, God's giving him these amazing words. Now, it's easy from the perspective of me introducing this guy as a fake prophet. You're going to receive this differently than if I had gotten up and said, guys, this is amazing. Look at this man of God. The Lord's taking us all into new levels of spiritual depth and prosperity and prophecy and healings. And Sean is a sample of what's to come. If that was what I was doing, then you heard this, you would have said, whoa, too. At least a majority of people would. I think what I'm saying here is he could not have done it on his own. He had to have been propped up by these trusted charismatic leaders. And when he was exposed, they just went silent, basically.
- [35:20]
Mike Winger
Is there anybody who. It was your birthday on my book release day, which is June 13th, where. Oh, you. This is awesome. Stand up, please. I like you. Out of the whole room, we have one of you. Carl Tuttle was here earlier. He's an old friend of mine from the Vineyard, and I heard.
- [35:36]
Narrator/Commentator
Carl.
- [35:36]
Mike Winger
Is that. Is that something to you?
- [35:37]
Narrator/Commentator
It's my first name.
- [35:38]
Mike Winger
Your name. There we go.
- [35:39]
Narrator/Commentator
Carl.
- [35:40]
Mike Winger
Carl, I believe you're married. Are you married? Yes. Oh, she's here. Go ahead and stand up, too. I love that you guys are awesome.
- [35:47]
Narrator/Commentator
Now, probably these are just sincere Christians who love the Lord. They're being manipulated. They're victims. Sean should have been stopped before he ever got to this point where he could say this sort of thing. I'll give you more reasons to think that, but my heart goes out to them. I think that the believers inside of Bethel and inside of Jesus image, inside of Morningstar and inside of ihop, the various churches, there's so many people represented by them as well as the people that these groups influence around the world. I think that the normal believers in the pews would basically be on the same page as me if they only knew what was going on behind the scenes. And so this is for you guys.
- [36:27]
Mike Winger
Our name. Does your name start with R? My last name is Rugi. It's interesting because I'm seeing behind you a woman in heaven. I believe Carl would be your mom. She just passed away at 93. I was there when she passed away in Chico. Was December 25th significant to her? Yes, that's her birthday. Oh, wow. And your first?
- [36:48]
Narrator/Commentator
Peyton.
- [36:48]
Mike Winger
Who's Peyton? Peyton is my granddaughter. And then I dead ended into Lincoln street and I was at Lincoln street and I don't know if 28 is part of the address too. Does that make sense? Is this your house? Is it 28 like 1 or 28? I just told your address.
- [37:11]
Narrator/Commentator
I want us to understand everywhere he went, he's doing this started in 2013. It's in smaller settings. Yes. It's in bigger settings. Yes. It takes off later, but started in 2013. There's a really important reason for that. And it's connected to Facebook. And I give all credit to Matthew Hartkey for being the one who figured this out. But I got to share it with you guys.
- [37:31]
Mike Winger
I went to your house in the spirit for a second. Is there a Nelson who has a birthday October 28th and you're from Philly. Is there a Danielle or Daniela from Greenville with a December 5th birthday?
- [37:48]
Narrator/Commentator
See, now we're into 2016. This is at the Azusa now event in 2016. And he is. He is calling people out and everybody's stunned. He was probably the highlight of the entire event, this one guy. And after this, there's a line out the door to get to his church. He had a church which he's no longer part of. I think he might. I don't know if he's still getting paid from them or something, but he's not like they're actually ministering to people, as far as I know. Expressions Church in la. And every event he goes to is packed out and he's hugely in demand. It was after this moment. This is. It's supernatural. It's Supernatural is Sid Roth's very significant and influential charismatic Ministry and he platforms people. That's what he does. He interviews people. He brings in a prophet, he brings in a healer, he brings in an apostle, he brings in a dreamer. He helped platform Brian Simmons and get the passion translation pushed out there. And it's always sales related. He brings people on and they're always hawking their goods every single time. And it's always a promise that his audience will be taken into new spiritual depths. It's a very consistent routine. He interviewed sean back in 2016. Now it has been deleted, right? As of January 28th of 2025. A year ago it was deleted, but I found it on the Wayback Machine and we can learn some interesting stuff from the things that were said there. Let me move myself a little bit out of the way. Okay, so in this newsletter, 2016, September again, this is when he takes off. Sean is not only the guy who can speak from God and hear from God, but he's the guy who can train you to do it. This becomes Sean's shtick, right? This is the sales funnel is prophecy. And then I get the people who I will train on how they will do prophecy. And then Sean sells his training courses. So this is his sales funnel. He still does it today. He still does prophetic training courses. He still sells them on his site. So in this article, everyone can hear God's voice. This is where Sean Bowles is going to tell them how they can hear God's voice now in him telling them he's going to talk about how he got his prophetic gift from the Lord. And so let's look at that. He says, I started getting. Let me see if I can manipulate where this is. Okay, so you can see where it was captured. Wayback machine, right? 2016, I started to get birth dates and anniversary dates. This is where he talks about his upgrade, where he went. Basically, I'll say he went from old methods of faking prophecy that were more laborious and you weren't able to get as much information. That's what Paul Kane would do. Then he went to new methods of faking prophecy, which was all about social media. So I've received many upgrades to my prophetic ability to hear and translate God to the world around me. In 2013, I received one of these upgrades and with it God showed me the power of the word of knowledge. He wants us to use his intimate knowledge of people to demonstrate how he loves them. I started to get birth dates and anniversary dates of strangers, grounding them in the knowledge of God that know that God knows Them and cares about what they care about. I began to hear where people went to school and the types of careers they had. Right. Almost like it was information on their about tab. I had visions of significant moments in their lives when something good happened and where God had been present. Almost like he was scrolling through people's photographs. These prophetic words brought them into connection, a connection or deeper connection with God who loves them and is with them. All right, what we're going to see next is genuinely a little bit creepy. Let me see if I can bring it into the screen. During this time, Randy Clark invited me to visit his ministry school. He wanted to go after the prophetic word of Knowledge gift specifically. Not just for words about healing, but also to demonstrate God's love through prophecy. He received the impartation from me and then stepped out for nearly an hour getting street addresses, people's children's names and more. It was uncomfortable for him, but so many people were encouraged as they watched a great leader try something new at great risk. So this moment with Randy Clark. Randy Clark is a significant name in the charismatic movement. If you get your impartation from a fraud, I think your impartation was fraudulent. So I think Randy Clark should come out and talk about this. And why has he not already? To my knowledge, he hasn't. If he has, I'd like to know it. I'll share it if he has on social media so people can see it. But, yeah, that's something else to consider is there's this inner web of these different guys. They're getting anointings from each other, right? So Todd White's like, I got my anointing from Kenneth Copeland, right? And then someone else goes, I got mine from Todd White. And they're all. These are all fake anointings. It's not the Holy Spirit if you're anointed with something spiritual. It's the wrong spirit. So this stuff became the cornerstone of Sean's ministry. This became the whole deal, right when he was. If he's teaching, if he's lecturing, there's not that interesting to people. Doesn't get that much attention. But when he does the prophecy thing, people come out in droves. And so he's given prophecy to thousands of individuals, hundreds of thousands of people in crowds. And he begins training other people like he did on the Sid Roth show on how they can learn from God. That's what led to his book that Bill Johnson endorsed and several other people from their ministry endorsed. And I'll read some of those endorsements. Later on. So he's the guy. He's the guy who teaches people how to hear from God in the charismatic movement at this point. And. And it was fake. It was fake. He's fake. It's fake. And it's so sad because there's so many believers. Let me show you this picture again. There's so many believers right here. Stunned as Sean Bowles reads from his cell phone. Fake words. As Bill Johnson endorses him and presents all these people to him because of the trust people have for Bill. Bill may be the most influential charismatic in the English speaking world right now. And trusted amongst other leaders. Bill Atazusa again introduced Sean as his closest or most trusted friend. That was the introduction. This is my most trusted friend. And he hears from God many things. Right at Bethel Reading. That's not the only endorsement he got. Let's look at some more of these endorsements. I had to go get my jacket, put it on, warm up a bit. Okay. So we're going to talk about more of the endorsements. I think that it's important people realize how widely and how strongly Shawn was endorsed, because I think that now a lot of individuals are going to act like it was no big deal or he wasn't considered, like the wonder boy of the Charismatic Church, the guy who was going to guide us all into the next stage of prophetic anointing so we could be more profound than Pentecost or the Apostles ever were. That is actually kind of the stuff people think I would like to now show you. Okay. There was not only Bill, this is Sean at Bethel. This was on Bethel's, not only in their audience, but on their Bethel TV streaming service as well as YouTube and wherever else they put it. And this is how Teresa Dedman introduced Sean Bowles to the people of Bethel. And this is an amazing time that we're living in.
- [44:47]
Stacey Campbell
Sean has so many testimonies about the doors that are opening. And so I want you to get on your feet and honor one of the most prophetic, creative people I know on the planet. Sean, a good friend of the house.
- [44:59]
Narrator/Commentator
He's amazing. One of the most prophetic, creative people I know on the planet. She says this is actually Theresa Dedman's clothing line. She sells prophetic leggings. My fashion designs. I read from her product page. My fashion designs embody the prophetic art they are created from. So they're created from. She does this prophetic art and then she puts them onto pants. Wearing my art enhances your awareness of God's presence and Helps you become a walking encounter of heaven's message to those around you. Also known as bologna sauce. No, it doesn't do that. That's not how it works. You don't put on these special pants that are prints of artwork from Theresa Dedmon. And then it's going to enhance your awareness of God's presence and make you a walking encounter of heaven's message to those around you. You're just. You're wearing yoga pants. She is the one who introduces Sean to the people at Bethel and does so with their leadership team, with their people all aware of it. Look at this room full of people. This guy is getting on stage and he's going to share words that he looked up on Facebook. It's reasonable to think that that's exactly what's going to happen right after this. Sean, one of the most prophetic people on the planet. She says now, this isn't a movement that prides itself on having lots and lots of people who prophesy. So, yes, I'm just saying this is a big deal, but it's not even remotely the only one. Who else endorsed Shawn? This video is going to be Sean on the Sid Roth show. I showed you an article that they pulled. Well, they've pulled the show as well now, too. Sid Roth doesn't want any connection to Sean anymore because Sean is now leprous. Right. If people know how much you endorsed him, then maybe it'll make you look bad. Well, it will, and you do look bad. Sid Roth, there's not a weird wacko that he has not endorsed on his show. Every charismatic should agree with me on this. Everyone should. Sid Roth says that Sean Bowles is the most amazingly detailed prophet he has ever known. He has ministered to thousands, from royalty to people on the streets. Now he wants to share with you the secrets he has learned concerning the gift of prophecy and wants to activate you to do the same as he does.
- [47:23]
Mike Winger
It's wonderful that Sean hears from God so clearly. I am excited that Sean has this gift. I impart every supernatural, spiritual gift I have that's transferable right now over the television to everybody in the studio audience.
- [47:39]
Narrator/Commentator
I reject it. Everything you have that's transferable, Sean is looking people's information up on Facebook and lying to them in God's name. That's transferable. That's easily transferable. Anybody could do that. It's very simple. Most people just have integrity and wouldn't do it. Sid Roth endorsed him. Sid Roth sold his stuff. Sid Roth always sells people's Stuff. It's always a sales funnel. Every show he has and Sean is endorsed. Now imagine you believe in Sid Roth. You trust this man's discernment. You think he's opening your eyes to see amazing things God is doing. And then imagine him saying nothing when he finds out who Shambles really is. Well, that's what happened. Marilyn Hickey. Those who know the Hickeys know that they go back quite a ways and they've been pretty significant and influential more than the average bear inside the charismatic movement. Even though now she's getting, you know, she's pretty up in age. But Sean goes on their show.
- [48:31]
Stacey Campbell
We have an amazing guest with us today.
- [48:33]
Mike Winger
We do.
- [48:34]
Narrator/Commentator
We have Sean Boltz. And I tell you, we really look
- [48:39]
Mike Winger
forward to this guest. We are so thrilled, oh my goodness.
- [48:43]
Narrator/Commentator
To have Shaun Bolz with us today.
- [48:45]
Mike Winger
Dude, you are the bomb.
- [48:46]
Narrator/Commentator
Dot com.
- [48:47]
Mike Winger
Holy cow.
- [48:49]
Narrator/Commentator
And I love this book, Translating God by Sean Boltzmann. Are you ready to be activated for your gift of $29 or more? We will send you Translating Hearing God's Voice for yourself and the world around
- [49:02]
Stacey Campbell
you by internationally known prophet Sean Bowles.
- [49:06]
Narrator/Commentator
We'll read some stuff out of that book later on. So he gets endorsed by the Hickeys as well. There's other people too. You might be surprised to know he was featured on 700 Club.
- [49:16]
Mike Winger
Welcome to the 700 Club.
- [49:18]
Narrator/Commentator
Author and pastor Sean Bowles is also a podcast and TV host. Another topic near to Sean' heart these days is hearing God's voice in the marketplace.
- [49:27]
Stacey Campbell
So what's Sean's secret to hearing God's voice? Take a look. Well, Sean joins us now via Skype.
- [49:33]
Narrator/Commentator
Hi, Sean. Welcome to the 700 Club.
- [49:35]
Mike Winger
I am so glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
- [49:37]
Narrator/Commentator
He was very glad to be there. Everyone's learned, everyone's believing that I'm the guy, I'm the guy, man. And he made lots of money off this three something million dollar home that actually I have evidence. I won't put it on screen here. I'm worried about doxing stuff. But I have evidence of Sean having several homes. Anyways, he was also featured on Fox News, believe it or not. He was on cbn, believe it or not. So let's look at the CBN one. He's a modern day prophet that can tell you your name, what street you live on, all without you saying a word. We sit down with Sean Bowles to learn what he has to say about President Trump and Kanye West. Well, Sean Bowles is a pioneer in ministry, including the prophetic movement as A pastor, author, producer and TV host with a prophetic gift. And Sean, welcome back to the prayer link.
- [50:30]
Mike Winger
Hello, ladies. I'm so glad to be here. It's such a privilege.
- [50:32]
Narrator/Commentator
You know, with the locusts in Africa, the coronavirus in China, wildfires in Australia, and the current political climate here in the US Are these signs of the the end times. What has God spoken to you about all of this that's going on right now?
- [50:44]
Mike Winger
I think things are accelerating.
- [50:47]
Narrator/Commentator
All of this attention he got even brought him onto Fox News. And it says, christian prophet Shaun Bolles, Lord showed me the end of coronavirus. A prophetic word he gave that ended up being false. This is what a lot of these guys do is, I believe, prophetic speculation. They read news reports, they try to get insiders, they figure out what they think is going to happen in the culture or with politics, and then they present it like a prophetic word. It didn't work out so good this time. He later was embarrassed about this and we'll talk more about that. But yeah, even Fox News is carrying this guy. Wow. This is the rise of Sean Bowles, right? This is the part of the Star wars, whichever episode it was, where Darth Sidious is taking control of the Senate. That's what's happening right here. He is taking control of the Senate. He is engaging in becoming a fixture of this is the Guy. And so they're like, tell us about Trump, Sean. Tell us about Kanye. Tell us about this and this and this and this. And it's because of the endorsements of all of these people that Sean was able to get such a foothold so that so many people believed him and just followed his words even when it messed up their lives. Some who I have witnesses and I'll share. Others, nobody even knows their stories. Okay? They're finding out for the first time as they watch this video because it's still coming out. It's still just coming out for a lot of people because the leaders in the charismatic movement won't call it out. We appealed in my video with Elijah Stevens. It was actually Elijah who was close and connected and part of Bethel Church, who appealed to the leaders. Please verify if these things are true about Sean. Please call him out. Please, Cheon, call him out. Please. Those who know about him, call him out. To my knowledge, none of them have. Sean has to be kicked out of. He has to be excommunicated out of the body. That's what has to happen. And that has to be a public thing because he was so publicly put up As a prophet, that's the only righteous thing that can be done with him right now. Let me remind you now that Sean himself acknowledges that Bill Johnson opened doors for him and other charismatic leaders platformed him.
- [52:52]
Mike Winger
I'm not saying I didn't have incredible people pour into me. I'm so grateful for Bill and Benny Johnson and what they've opened up for us in our life and Heidi and Roland Baker and there's people who recognize some things in our lives and they helped Siren and I over the years, and even Paul and Denise inviting me year after year for over, you know, 13 years.
- [53:09]
Narrator/Commentator
So he understands that these people were needed and they propped him up and they opened doors for him and they had him speak year after year after year. And so I'm just trying to show you guys there was a responsibility. There was a responsibility to tell people. Now let me show you what happens when you don't tell people. This is a very sad, unfortunate thing that I'm about to share with you. But this is what happened to one young lady who, as far as I know, lost her faith. And it was very much connected to Sean Bowles and not only his fakery, but the COVID up of his fakery by leaders who knew better. I just type in Sean Bowles allegations and all of this information starts coming
- [53:49]
Mike Winger
up of all these people that are
- [53:52]
Narrator/Commentator
proving that he got. He mined all of his information from
- [53:55]
Mike Winger
social media and he knows who, who would be in the crowd.
- [54:00]
Narrator/Commentator
Because you register for conferences, they're paid conferences. You register.
- [54:05]
Mike Winger
Oh, so he would get the list of attendees, mine information, and then Cole act like he was cold, revealing. Yeah.
- [54:14]
Narrator/Commentator
And it's like very much like a cold like that. It's like tale is all this time swindler's tricks. But like, again, I believe and I
- [54:22]
Mike Winger
feel so dumb now, but I'm like, I was primed for that.
- [54:26]
Narrator/Commentator
There's no way I could have not thought that that was real. I want you to remember that she said that forever. I was primed for that. It wasn't Sean Bulls that primed her for that. It was her overall charismatic community that killed the gift of discernment and really wanted to seek revival to the point where they would tolerate stuff that wasn't real. It wasn't real. The toleration of the fake is the undermining of the real. But the Charismatic Church has grown to think of it as Hamburger Helper, that it actually assists us to tolerate a significant amount of fakery. But actually what it does is it creates shambles and it creates Situations like this young lady right here who unfortunately I think ended up leaving the faith or turning from Christ. And I hope and pray that that's only part of her story in the long run. But you, you can understand where she comes from because if that's what her experience, that was pretty crazy to, to realize this. I've seen a lot of fake, but I've seen a lot of real. The real's worth it. I will allow the fake. I don't want the fake on the platform because I, I don't want to promote the fake, but I'll allow the fake in the room because I still believe in the genuine. I've had people say that over the years, you know, they said, you know, you know, I've had students, you know, some of this seems fake. I go, it is. They go, what? I go, most of it's fake. What do you mean? I said, I've been watching this 40 years. Most places that I've been, the majority of the manifestations are not caused by the Holy Spirit. They go, really? But I said, but the problem is it's not all fake and the genuine is in our midst. And I will allow a whole lot of Hamburger Helper to allow the genuine take place. I said, I won't promote it, but I will allow it. Because the genuine is so important to the kingdom of God. But that always throws off people if they're young and new at this. They go, it is fake. I go, yeah. I go, just now, don't be so open minded. Your brains fall out. You can understand that the real and the genuine and the fake all exist together in one setting. And it's that way everywhere. There's nothing unique here. It's not any different here than anywhere. It's that way everywhere. I've been in revival, renewal, holy spirit settings in many countries. It's the same people or people, folk or folk, no matter who, no matter what, no matter where. Now when she talks about her dad, it's even more revealing about what leaders have to do with guys like Sean. And so this is the first time I'm scared to death. I'm shaken because like, you know, do not mock God's anointed or whatever, you know. Yeah. They're also trained that you don't ever look into, even research something negative about a church leader or something like that. Now yes, the online is a world of gossip and slander and personal attacks that are not deserved. That's true. But frauds are real. Abusers do exist. And you can't have A rule that you have these untouchable elites that have no accountability. Oh my gosh, I find it.
- [57:05]
Mike Winger
And I got done with that.
- [57:08]
Narrator/Commentator
I called my dad and I said,
- [57:09]
Mike Winger
hey,
- [57:12]
Narrator/Commentator
did you hear about Sean Bowles?
- [57:15]
Stacey Campbell
And he said, what did you hear?
- [57:20]
Narrator/Commentator
And so for reference, this word that
- [57:22]
Stacey Campbell
he gave us caused a lot of
- [57:24]
Narrator/Commentator
division in our family for years. It was a really caused some big problems. Like it was not good and we had held onto it for a long time. How many families can say that about Sean Bowles? He doesn't care about those people. In reality, through his actions, he hates them. He hates the ones he's smiling at that he's going, wow, oh, God loves you. God sees you. He despises them. That's what his actions are saying is the actions of someone who hates people. How many families like hers? And Sean is not the only one.
- [58:01]
Stacey Campbell
And so I said, did you hear that he is a fraud?
- [58:06]
Narrator/Commentator
And got all of his prophetic words from social media.
- [58:12]
Stacey Campbell
And my dad just, Yep.
- [58:17]
Narrator/Commentator
And I'm like, dad, why you knew? Why didn't you tell me like how? I said, how long have you known? And he said, well, about two years. And I'm like, dad, like I said, why didn't you tell me that?
- [58:37]
Mike Winger
And he said, well, I just didn't
- [58:39]
Narrator/Commentator
think it would help you at that time. Which, like, at the time, like, I wasn't even like two years ago, like I wasn't even really like struggling that I was just like, what? I believe that in the Charismatic Church, amongst these leaders, among guys like Bill Johnson, Chris Valatin, Rick Joyner, Michael Kulianos, I can name other names. I believe that amongst these leaders, Patricia King, they know Sid Roth, the Crouches. I think that they know about all kinds of guys who are fake. All kinds, if in fact it isn't true of them as well. And I think that their congregations would make the same face this young lady is making here and go, you knew, you knew, you knew. And if everything came out, it would be devastating. Which is why the COVID up culture is so strong. Because anybody who becomes an example, distance yourself from them. Sure. But when you make an example of the guy, when you call him out publicly, you make yourself vulnerable and everybody else in the movement vulnerable. As far as not everybody, but all the leaders who have been faking for years because some of their heroes are fakers. Paul Kane was a faker. Bob Jones was a faker. Mike Bickle was a faker. William Brannon was a faker. And you go through and you realize, oh my gosh Were any of these real? There's a book called God's Generals that Bill Johnson has supported and recommended to people, and it's full. I'm not saying every name on the list, but there's a bunch of names on the list of God's generals who were just frauds, fakers, bad guys. It's systematic in the movement right now. Now, not every Charismatic is like this. I want to make this very clear. There are a lot of good, godly, wonderful charismatics who operate in the gifts of the spirit and who do wonderful things. I'm trying to expose the bad here for the sake of the good. That's what we're trying to do. It's not as though whoever watching this, you should just leave your Charismatic church. No, no, I'm not suggesting that, but you need to pull the covers off and assess and say, what is going on here? Let's have purity, let's have integrity. So that girl, seems she lost her faith. Now, I'm going to give you an example of one of the best examples of Sean making it up like it's the best example, because it's, like, clear. It seems pretty clear that he made this up. And you'll understand. I'll walk you through it.
- [60:59]
Mike Winger
Is there. I saw a friend of mine, her name's Kelly, and I saw her standing on a road. Does that mean something? Like it's maybe a last name. Kelly, is that you? Kelly Rhodes. God knew you'd be here. I didn't, but God did. That's awesome. Hi. Kelly Rhodes. I feel like, Kelly, you're like one of those people, those hidden figures. There's something so special about you, but you've been hidden in it. You're about to be revealed. Like, I feel like your due is about to be paid for how you supported and helped so many people and how you've been a good daughter to Doris.
- [61:27]
Narrator/Commentator
So he's really going to focus on the mom. He knows more information about the mom than he does about Kelly. So he knows her name, he knows her birthday. I feel bad for the lady here. I consider her my sister in Christ. Being manipulated by this guy, it's infuriating, I admit, as I see this, as I watch it. I'm angry at Sean Bowles personally. Very angry at him. I'm trying to not sin in my anger. I think the anger is appropriate. But I'm angry also those around him. Again, this is at the More Love, More power event in 2017. Sean had already been exposed at least the chance to expose him was there because Jason Smedley had tried to blow the whistle. And instead he was attacked by Paul Kane, the fake prophet pervert who was predatory towards young people, young men who Mike Bickle delivered to him. It's the craziest stuff in the world, these things. And he still had a place to even attack in the movement. He still had some kind of influence. To even be able to attack somebody is crazy. I blame the leaders, the current leaders in the Charismatic church for the last few generations, the ones in particular that I'm naming. Not all of them. Absolutely not all of them. But I'll tell you what, if there's good leaders there, show yourselves to be good by calling out the ones that you know you need to. Now listen in to the most revealing moment, probably of all of the Shaun Bulls videos that I can show you has to do with Doris Rhodes
- [62:57]
Mike Winger
and how she's like your best friend. And I feel like God's just saying that everything that she prayed for and has prayed for is going to still come for the family. And I feel like the Lord's saying, you're gonna start to see the manifestation of what you prayed for. You're gonna start to see the reality. I wrote down January 27th. That's her birthday. Is there. Is there. I saw Psalm 105 over your family and read that later on, but did she or you ever live on a 105, like slaughterhouse or 105 something? Or does that make sense for some reason? I saw the word slaughterhouse, but it wasn't bad. I know it was a weird. It's a weird. I took the risk because he just
- [63:45]
Narrator/Commentator
tried to call out her address. He got it wrong, and now he's trying to recover everything else.
- [63:50]
Mike Winger
Felt like it was, you know, connected to God, but I just. Just, you know, maybe. Maybe research that a little bit. If it's.
- [63:56]
Narrator/Commentator
If.
- [63:57]
Mike Winger
If I miss that part, it's not a big deal.
- [64:00]
Narrator/Commentator
I just want to remind you guys, it was Sean Bowles idea for us to research that a little bit and research it. We did, actually. It was Matthew Hartke who researched this. And I don't know if anybody before him did or not. He's the first I know of who researched this and posted it online. And he showed that there is actually a Doris Rhodes who lives on 105 Slaughterhouse, who lives in the same area as the other Doris Rhodes. They're in the same areas as this event and everything or where her Facebook says she lives. Excuse me. It's just a different Doris Rhodes. There's just more than one Doris Rose in the region who is similar and older and all this kind of stuff. 105 slaughterhouse. That to me is an incredible smoking gun. There is no way on earth that this guy randomly got from the Lord a real address of a real Doris Rhodes. That was the wrong Doris Rhodes. This was just. I googled this. I googled this as well. This is a screenshot I took. It's not just something that was passed around because I want to double check. I want to make sure I share things that are accurate and true. And if there's anything I get wrong, I'm happy to publicly say I'm so sorry I got this wrong and correct it. I only want to share the things that I believe are true. And I'm taking some risks to do this right. I've had to talk to lawyers and things like that. I'm like, I'm going to call this stuff out and there's no way to do it without risk to myself. But there is no way for leaders to stand up and defend those who are being targeted by bad guys without taking some risks for yourself. So we all need to step into that stuff. Anyway. Charlotte Gore is the next one we're going to talk about. Charlotte Gore. Okay. There's a guy named Chris Gore. He's really significant in Bethel or was for many years. I don't know what he's doing at the moment, but he was at Bethel Redding from 2006 for many, many years until at least recently. Maybe he's still there. I don't know. He was the director of their healing ministries at Bethel. And his daughter was a very well known, very disabled young lady, very well loved and cared for. And Sean decided to take her and use her as an example in one of his shtick grifting, fake prophecy things. Because everybody is a tool to this man, it seems.
- [66:17]
Mike Winger
Is there a Charlotte?
- [66:19]
Narrator/Commentator
Hold on. I want to show you the beginning of that video again. Bethel TV Moments. This was hosted on Bethel's Facebook and YouTube and wherever their Bethel TV stuff is hosted at, this is one of their videos. And it was still present, it was still live until I started asking about it privately. I reached out to Chris Gore and asked him, and all of a sudden now the video has disappeared.
- [66:42]
Mike Winger
Is there a. A Charlotte with October 7th birthday? Does that make sense to anybody?
- [66:47]
Narrator/Commentator
Charlotte Gore just had a birthday.
- [66:50]
Mike Winger
Who would Charlotte Gore be? I don't know. Okay. Chris Gore's daughter. Okay. And Chris isn't here. Chris Gore. Where's the camera that I'm looking.
- [66:57]
Narrator/Commentator
I want to show you a different angle where my face is not blocking because I want you to see that there's, there's Bill Johnson, there's Benny Johnson, there's Danny Silk, probably other leaders here as well. All there in the room. This is of course at Bethel. And he's going to now abuse the entire church.
- [67:20]
Mike Winger
Hi, streaming audience. We love you. This is a word for you and Charlotte Gore. I saw the Lord giving you a hope for fullness and your life matters to God in a major way. So there's a healing power of a love for significance. And then it will follow with a full healing. The Lord wants to bring a full healing and your parents prayers are working. What am I saying? You guys are excited. I don't know what y'. All.
- [67:47]
Narrator/Commentator
He's clearly prophesying that she's going to be fully healed, which would be obviously the heart's desire of any parent or of her for that matter. I'll show you. She's. She's very, very disabled. I'll show you later. I don't want to show her face. I don't want to increase any of the negative stuff, but we have to give the examples. These are the public examples. I was able to find this. I was able to go through, scrubbing through his videos, scrubbing through the videos Bethel has put up of him and going, where has he prophesied? Can I confirm that? I found this online and I found examples of my own as well. So this is one of those. I think I'm the first to brought this one up. He's doing this to Bethel leadership now. He pretends he doesn't know Chris. You'll hear. He's like Chris Gore. Who's that? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I kind of am aware of him. He knows who Chris is. He's been part of Bethel for years at this point. He calls it his mother church. He's close with Bill Johnson. He's. Come on, he knows. But he has to pretend ignorance to magnify his glory.
- [68:43]
Mike Winger
I'm really excited. So tell me, fill me in. Oh, she's in a wheelchair, severely disabled. Well, God sees those prayers are working and I know nothing about this family. This is crazy. You know, I have a real prayer in my heart just to be a blessing to Bethel, the church itself. I feel like God wants to resolve some of the long term issues in Bethel.
- [69:02]
Narrator/Commentator
Now listen, you've got to understand the background of this Bethel. I'm going to play what he's going to say in a second. But Bethel has for years been presenting a narrative that they are on a trajectory of ever upward and higher and better with miracles, with healings, with financial prosperity and with prophecy. And all of those things are increasing over the years. And now they're not really increasing over the years, but that's the narrative. They're always increasing. They're always. And then Sean shows up and he's there and he's like the guy with these extra prophecies that nobody gets. So it's like he's the sort of the doorway into that. That's the idea in the movement. That's the idea. So this is why I say revival culture can be dangerous because it leaves you vulnerable to the fakers because nobody can have as many miracles as the guy that's faking. So he's going to now take this thing he says about Charlotte Gore. You've been praying for her to be healed for a long, long time. Well, now that healing, the full healing is coming and now he's turning that claim into a prophecy about Bethel as a whole. You guys are going to be entering into the realm that you've been, you know, heading towards and praying for and talking about where you're going to get all the healings and miracles and all this.
- [70:08]
Mike Winger
You know, I have a real prayer in my heart just to be a blessing to Bethel, the church itself. I feel like God wants to resolve some of the long term issues in Bethel and I feel like this is picture of it, like where he wants to come in and resolve things that have been prayed for, to give a foundation of faith. The things we're praying for consistently, that are always amongst us, that seem like they never get resolved, that God's going to start doing something with those things. When I feel like prophesying over Charlotte is an example. I don't know the Gores at all. I don't know if I've ever even talked to Chris Gorks ever once. So I don't know anything about his family, but I see three girls and I feel like this is a picture of the Lord speaking into something because he's going to start pulling into the full glory the things that have been the most undone, that are historic.
- [70:46]
Narrator/Commentator
Pulling it to full glory is a specific phrase that has meaning in that group, historically undone.
- [70:52]
Mike Winger
And I feel like this is one of the pictures. So we bless the situation and ones like it to get resolved in this season. God. Wow. In Jesus name. Wow. That's so good. Wow. There was some holiness on that. Wow.
- [71:03]
Narrator/Commentator
Proceeds to pat himself on the back at the end of it. So like I said, I reached out to Chris Gore. I was like, hey, can I talk to you about this? I believe that he abused you and your daughter and your family. And I guess I didn't grab the clip, but he also, in the same clip, he mentions their dog Maverick. And the crowd goes like, they're shocked because they have a dog named Maverick. And he's like, oh, wow, Maverick. Yeah, okay. She has like a Maverick little dog. And that was also available online. So let me show you that this stuff was available online. This is from Chris's website, kingdomreleasers.org, or it was. I had to use the Wayback Machine to find this. But in 2014, this was present, which means that it would have been accessible easily by anybody who knew Chris's name. You can find his site. It says Chris graduated BSSM and is now working at Bethel in a pastoral overseer role as the director of Healing ministries, which he did, it seems, for many years on his Facebook page, which we have good reason to think Sean really likes checking Facebook. It's not the only thing he checks. Chris Gore had a photo of his family with his three daughters, his disabled daughter and their dog. And in the photo it says, our new member to our family has arrived. Our dog, Maverick. Then he tags three other family members. It seems in this, this is something I learned about Sean. I scrubbed through people's Facebook pages trying to figure out like, was Sean reading? Let me go back to the date of this event, look at their page, what was being posted recently. And it looks to me as though Sean frequently wouldn't read necessarily people's posts like weeks or months long posts, but rather he would just click on photos and he would scroll through their photos to look for connections, individuals and events like a birthday, a funeral, the birth of a child, the death of a child. And he would use those things in his prophecy. So here, the dog, the child, everything is right there, present, and it connects perfectly with what Sean said. It was all publicly available. Also, Chris Gore posted this word on his page. He was very excited by this and he says, I want to post an amazing prophetic word where our daughter Charlotte was called out by name and birth date at the Open Heavens conference at Bethel. I really believe this word is for more than just Charlotte. Now he's echoing exactly what Sean said, right? More than just Charlotte, but for the greater body that have stood in faith for healing for long term issues. I trust that you are encouraged as you listen and receive this word. And this connects well. With Bethel. Bethel's been saying we're going to be the place where nobody dies. Yes, they say that we're going to be a place where nobody dies. They joke no one's allowed to die. It was actually Benny Johnson who joked that a few years before she sadly passed from cancer. So this connects very well with them. He knows his target audience well. I think as much as I have criticism for Bethel leadership, and I do think, Chris, you should have blown the whistle when you knew you have enough influence people to listen to you. People who wouldn't listen to me in your circle would listen to you. But you're also a victim. And my heart breaks for you and for your daughter and your family. And I'm so sorry that for however long after that, you guys would be going to church and people are asking about her, checking in on her, praying over her again and again and again and again and again. And I. If I was your daughter, I'd be like that. I don't even want to go to church. I don't want to be in an environment where everybody's focused on me because of this fake prophecy, and everybody keeps hounding me and harassing me. Ultimately, I wouldn't even want to be there. I'd be like, can we go somewhere else? I'm sorry that that happened to you. I'm sorry that happened to her. This is Charlotte Gore in 2024. One of the more recent pictures I could show you guys, she's clearly still disabled. For those who are like, but maybe she did get healed. Dude, it's been years and years. The original video where the prophecy was there. The video, not the event. The video was posted October 15, 2015. 2015. This is her nine years later. So, Charlotte, that word wasn't from the Lord. You didn't do anything wrong. You didn't disappoint God. The people praying for you didn't fail God in some way. The man was just abusing others so he could exalt himself and get glory and money and power. And it worked for a good long while. And sadly, the leadership in your own fellowship didn't protect you from him. And even when they found out when they definitely knew, they still didn't. So, yeah, like I said, Bethel has pulled that video. They didn't pull it when Sean was exposed publicly. They pulled it when I asked privately about it. That's the timeline as I understand it. Let me talk now about usernames. Sean likes to use usernames.
- [75:44]
Mike Winger
Never get usernames. But I ask God for new Information that I never get.
- [75:47]
Narrator/Commentator
Keep in mind that he says he never gets usernames. That's super important. Never gets them. But imagine. Imagine if you were to prophet who doesn't know your name, but he knows your Facebook username.
- [75:58]
Mike Winger
Terry Bishop, 911. Terry Bishop. You're working on the show and we're getting you.
- [76:01]
Narrator/Commentator
That is my username. Terry Bishop, 911.
- [76:04]
Mike Winger
The Lord says you live in a pleasant place. What does that mean to you?
- [76:07]
Narrator/Commentator
I live on Pleasant Hills.
- [76:08]
Mike Winger
Come on.
- [76:09]
Narrator/Commentator
Come on. That's on Sid Roth's show again. This is. That's a pretty significant thing to get invited on Sid Roth. That's a door opener for you. Churches will be calling you. Conferences will be asking for you after you get on the Sid Roth show. Here's another one.
- [76:21]
Mike Winger
And I felt like he said, even, like, someone named Bubba, because I saw Bubba Gump Shrimp Company. Who is that? Who is Bubba? Like, who's Bubba this year? Bubba? Is that your real. Is that your.
- [76:38]
Narrator/Commentator
Okay, I enhanced the audio so you can hear the guy a bit. I also put the text on the screen. He's gonna go, is that your real name, Bubba? Because he doesn't know what the guy's real name is. He just knows all he could see. This is what it looks like. All he could see was the guy's username online. He wasn't sure if it was real, so he goes ahead and brings it up himself.
- [76:53]
Mike Winger
Your nickname. Your family nickname. That's so cute. That's so cute.
- [76:59]
Narrator/Commentator
I think he goes on and on about it being cute. I didn't keep playing it.
- [77:03]
Mike Winger
That's so cute.
- [77:06]
Narrator/Commentator
Chills. Something creepy about that. Anyway, here's another one.
- [77:10]
Mike Winger
This is a username or something because it's a person's name. So excuse me if it is a person's name. Sorry. L, R, I, C, K. Babzelric.
- [77:22]
Narrator/Commentator
Hold on. We're about to hear from her. Babzel. Rick again. Sean doesn't know how to pronounce the names because he's not hearing them. He is probably just reading them off of the Internet. And he goes, I want to use this person. They checked in at the event, Something like that. But I don't know how to pronounce their name. And they didn't put their full real name online. So what does she say?
- [77:47]
Mike Winger
Ulrich?
- [77:48]
Narrator/Commentator
Actually, it's Deborah Ellerich, but my husband calls me Babs.
- [77:51]
Mike Winger
So I babs together here. And I'm trying to figure this out. Never get usernames, But I ask Deborah
- [77:57]
Narrator/Commentator
Ellerich, but my husband Calls me Babs. Babs Elric. He didn't even know there was. That was two different names. He thought Babzelrich was the name. So another example of him getting usernames, which I think in and of itself is suspicious. Now, we put all the suspicious things together. It's. It's definitive. I mean, there's no reasonable doubt, no reasonable doubt that this guy faked it. And I have a lot more to share. So what I want to do now, though, is play a video. This is from a friend of mine named Steven Kozar. Now, Steve Kozar has been criticizing some of the craziness that's gone on in the Charismatic Church, in particular for quite a while. And he has a bad name because of it, because your name will get slandered if you do this stuff. And he tried to raise the alarm about. About Sean Bowles a long time ago. And I want to play a significant portion of the video from him so that you guys can see exactly what he was talking about. I think this is pretty significant. This is an awesome analysis. And Steve's going to walk us through some specific examples. He'll put up something Sean claims to the audience, and then he'll show how the thing that was claimed was available publicly on social media. And when you have this happening over and over and over again, and you combine it with one other element. Sean has detailed, specific facts about your past and present that are available publicly on social media, and then combine that with another fact. Shaun has vague, vague generalities and prophecies for you about your future. He might tell you what to do with confidence, but he won't tell you what will happen with great confidence. Generally speaking, sometimes he does, but it's not the kind of details that he has about the past and present. When you combine specific public info with vague futuristic prophecies, that's a huge red flag. When you do it over and over and over again, it's obvious that the guy's a faker. Let's learn about Dennis. Dennis who was targeted, manipulated, and abused by Sean Bowles after Bethel had already had opportunity to find out and correct this man.
- [80:03]
Mike Winger
And I'm looking for a Dennis who you're either from the Ukraine or your parents were.
- [80:07]
Narrator/Commentator
I just want to point out there's Rodney Howard Brown on stage behind him, Daniel Kalinda and Heidi Baker.
- [80:13]
Mike Winger
And you move to America, and I think to Washington State or Washington, D.C.
- [80:19]
Narrator/Commentator
and Todd White and others. You'll see.
- [80:21]
Mike Winger
Help me out here. Is there a Dennis? Every single thing that Sean says comes
- [80:26]
Narrator/Commentator
directly from the social media accounts of Dennis. This is just a big trick. So here Steve is showing the social media page where Dennis talks about the very things that, that Sean is prophesying.
- [80:42]
Mike Winger
And you move to America and I think to Washington State or Washington D.C. there's a dentist who your parents were from the Ukraine. You moved into America.
- [80:53]
Narrator/Commentator
So the Facebook here shows that this info is available.
- [80:55]
Mike Winger
Help me out here. Is there a dentist? We've only done this in stadiums. It's big a few times. It's a little hard. So my story goes that my family
- [81:04]
Narrator/Commentator
comes from a Ukrainian background. So my mom, when she was about 16 years old. Anybody who's listening on podcast, this is a video that Dennis had on his website, his own testimony video. Now keep in mind for the Azusa now event, people were doing check ins on Facebook. We'll talk about, I'll go back to Facebook as soon as we're done with Dennis. We will come back to Facebook and I'll reveal the thing that is very relevant there. Came into the United States and my dad around not too long after that did as well.
- [81:32]
Mike Winger
They didn't know each other and they
- [81:34]
Narrator/Commentator
came and they, they got married in the United States and I was a second son born into the family.
- [81:39]
Mike Winger
We've only done this in stadiums this big a few times. It's a little hard. We have somebody, we thank God. Thank you, Dennis, for listening to God and showing up. Is there a screen I can see or I can't even see a screen, I guess. Here, let me walk way out here and almost fall off the stage. This is good. Dennis, you're here.
- [82:02]
Narrator/Commentator
Good. You guys are going to see him in just a second. You'll see Dennis and he's there surrounded. Oh, I guess he's on screen. There you go right there. Right with his arms up, facing and smiling, surrounded by people wearing similar shirts.
- [82:15]
Mike Winger
I can see a little bit. Dennis, the Lord, the Lord himself has been walking with you since you were a little boy.
- [82:23]
Narrator/Commentator
We were raised in a Islamic Pentecostal background. So my whole life I heard about Jesus, we went to church. It was something that was always natural.
- [82:33]
Mike Winger
Has been walking with you since you were a little boy and you had a hard time there in the middle because of some of the things that happened.
- [82:39]
Narrator/Commentator
And I moved with my mom and my siblings to the state of Washington and I was in eighth grade at this time. Moved partially throughout the middle of the school year and I went through a lot of hazing. There was a lot of bullying and rejection during that time of my life. And I began to start getting into fights and started getting experimenting with drugs and smoking and all those sorts of things.
- [83:02]
Mike Winger
And not too far down the road
- [83:04]
Narrator/Commentator
at the age of 15, I ended up getting arrested and sitting good amount of time in a juvenile system.
- [83:13]
Mike Winger
And you had a hard time there in the middle because of some of the things that happened.
- [83:17]
Narrator/Commentator
So, again, this stuff is available on his website. You can find Dennis, because he, it seems, checked into the Azusa now event. He's using the hashtag like Azusa now or Azusa now 2016 or something like that, and it's all available there. It's not hard to think that before this event, Sean is sitting there in his hotel room or wherever on his smartphone, taking some notes from the things that he sees someone saying, can't wait for the next day at the Azusa now event. And then Sean's searching and looking at. And I'll show you in a second. We'll get to the Facebook in a second. So it's not a coincidence. All these things are too much to be a coincidence. Okay, Sean's a faker. And I'll have more witness testimony from people who used to work with him, work for him, and former employees and others that will be adding to this to tell the whole story, the whole story today.
- [84:08]
Mike Winger
And you had a hard time there in the middle because of some of the things that happened, and you had a hard time there in the middle because of some of the things that happened in your family. But it's going to give you the power over divorce.
- [84:19]
Narrator/Commentator
At about 13, my, my parents start
- [84:22]
Mike Winger
going through a divorce and broken families and adoption and foster care. And the Lord is saying he's raising you up, that there's something you're called to build of an awakening movement. An awakening movement.
- [84:36]
Narrator/Commentator
So on the screen just there, Steve Kozar put the website that this guy's website is Awakening Generation. And so Sean weaves that into his prophecy. So the guy's thinking like, wow, God really sees me. He knows me. I'm on the right track. He wants me to do this. This is the moment where most likely Dennis is thinking, I know for sure what my life's mission will be. Maybe I've struggled, maybe I've doubted it. Maybe I've wondered if it would work. Now I know for sure this is my life's mission. I will do everything that Sean just
- [85:01]
Mike Winger
said I should do something on the East Coast. I think you're on the west coast, but you're gonna be on the East Coast.
- [85:09]
Narrator/Commentator
Apparently it's happening right From Tacoma, Washington, lives in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, the East Coast. That that's what his Facebook says.
- [85:19]
Mike Winger
See, like Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania. And God is saying he's a awakening something in Pennsylvania. And he's calling you to lead a movement. A movement.
- [85:33]
Narrator/Commentator
Steve writes on the screen here. This poor guy's getting scammed. 100% true. I feel bad for Dennis. Dennis, in fact, it may be that what you were already doing is what the Lord would have you do. That may well be. But if you have been fundraising based upon this word from shambles, you have to stop. And that doesn't mean that you're ministry is invalid or that your calling can't be in place. But you need to disregard this and know that many, many, many other people experience the same thing from Sean. Learn from it, grow from it, move on. If you need counseling, Dennis, reach out to my ministry. We will. No strings attached. We will pay for you to get some counseling from some reliable, trustworthy people who help people recover from spiritual abuse.
- [86:18]
Mike Winger
My Dennis.
- [86:18]
Narrator/Commentator
There you are.
- [86:20]
Mike Winger
And Dennis, I'll tell you this. I have to face you and face you two ways. I don't know how to do this, but I'm telling you, your, your, your heritage in Eastern Europe, my family comes
- [86:30]
Narrator/Commentator
from a Ukrainian background.
- [86:32]
Mike Winger
God is going to send you not only to America, but he's going to send you to North America. He's going to send you to South America, but he's going to commission you. Not just send you, but commission you over the Ukraine and Eastern Europe. And something's going to happen like you can't even drink.
- [86:47]
Narrator/Commentator
So, yeah, on the screen, more information from social media that confirms that Sean could easily have just data mined. Every single thing.
- [86:54]
Mike Winger
Something's going to happen like you can't
- [86:56]
Narrator/Commentator
even dream up really. This is supposed to be God talking. A God who apparently can't even be specific.
- [87:03]
Mike Winger
He's putting you right now on the highest lampstand that you could shine from. And it's your time, brother. It's your time.
- [87:12]
Narrator/Commentator
Just about a year. Okay, now he's going to get into a couple other things that I thought would be important to just throw in here. Sean's more notable false prophecies, coronavirus and Trump.
- [87:24]
Mike Winger
After this send event where we just
- [87:27]
Narrator/Commentator
saw him using his smartphone, he made this ridiculous pronouncement from God that the coronavirus was about to end. Everything was going to be okay.
- [87:35]
Mike Winger
Even now several vaccines are coming out.
- [87:37]
Narrator/Commentator
This was in February of 2020. He made a big deal out of this.
- [87:43]
Mike Winger
Fox News or some gullible person at Fox News actually ran with this story.
- [87:47]
Narrator/Commentator
Here he is on the Strang Report being interviewed by Stephen Strang, the publisher for Charisma. The Strang Report. And Stephen Strang did damage control for Benny Hinn after I exposed him. And it was, it was, it was, it was bad. It was bad. I actually did an interview with Charisma and somebody inside. The guy who interviewed me was fine, but there was somebody else who was in his ear trying to get him to lay a trap for me by asking me a loaded question about Benny Hinn. As soon as I answered it, they put articles out on multiple news websites to try to attack my character. This is just what really happened. Okay, there's the COVID up. Culture is a real thing. Millions won't die. The economy will surge. This was in March of 2020.
- [88:35]
Mike Winger
Also in 2020, he made the prediction that Trump was going to win his second term just like all the other false prophets. Then he apologized for it and said, hey, you know, I'm just learning, I'm
- [88:45]
Narrator/Commentator
taking just for anybody who's like, well, I think he did win in that initial 2020 election actually. So that's not relevant to the point we're making here. So he said Trump would have two consecutive terms, that in, in 2020 he would be the years in office. Right. And that didn't happen. And so whether you thought the election was stolen or not is not relevant to this particular issue. He said it would happen and it didn't. So he was wrong about a big prophecy. There was so many of the guys that were wrong about Trump that year that it was like the Lord was exposing the fake prophetic in the charismatic movement. Sadly, it didn't seem to have made that much of a difference yet.
- [89:23]
Mike Winger
Risks. I'm just trying this thing out.
- [89:26]
Narrator/Commentator
That's not how prophets work in the Bible. It was actually at the same event that Sean prophesied over Daniel Kalindi. This is a video that's still up on YouTube called Sean Bowles prophesying over Daniel Kalinda at the sin 2019. Here you've got Bill Johnson, Lou Angle, you've got Todd White, you have Daniel Kolinda, you've got Michael Culiano. So you have a bunch of different people here on stage. This is big. This is 2019. Now Bethel already had information. 2015, 2016, 2017. They still put him up and did this. And the thing is, for someone like Daniel Kolinda to have this moment where Bowles calls him out and he's like, God's giving you a special upgrade to your anointing and da da d and you don't want this guy to be exposed potentially because it makes you look like there's something not right because you're getting anointings from these guys. And so there can be this sort of mutual dependency where these guys give each other prophetic words and then it's hard for them to expose one another. Where's Daniel?
- [90:23]
Mike Winger
Daniel? Kalinda. Come up here real fast, brother. But I will say this. I felt like God. I kept seeing over and over and over, and I felt like I was supposed to do it in front of everybody because I feel like you represent someone who's having a fresh commissioning from God. Behold, I do a new thing through you, and it's going to involve properties all over the world that will be discipleship places. And I'm telling you, the roots of what you've inspired will now go deeply in the lands because there's a property anointing along with a ministry of evangelism and crusades, a property anointing.
- [90:54]
Narrator/Commentator
Okay, so now we come to 2000 2013. Why 2013? Why is that the time when his prophetic gift took off, when all of a sudden he's not just normal prophetic grifting like Paul Kane would, He's next level prophetic grifting like Sean Bowles does. It's the same time as Facebook introduced. Remember, social media is not that old really. Facebook introduced a new feature called graph search. It gets put in place. The beta of it is announced January 15, 2013. And now you can search. You can check hashtags and you can search for people's names. You can connect relationships. Before you would go on Facebook and just sort of hope it connected you to people that were in your area or that you also went to the same school as you or something, but you just would go and hope it would make a connection. Now you can search. That's what happened in 2013 when he says to Sid Roth in the article, he says on Sid Roth's program that it was 2013 he got his prophetic upgrade. That was just the year that Facebook became searchable. That's all it was. It was so obvious. That's why Steve Kozar knew it. That's why Matthew Hartkey knew it. In 2021, he posted on X a bunch of evidence about this. And that's why even in 2017, you even had public articles. Did you guys? This'll surprise you, but here's a public article that was available in 2017. Let me put it on your Screen Sean Bowles Exposing a Fraudulent Charismatic Prophet by Stuart James Felker May 17 at 20:17 Last time it was updated. It talks about the Azusa street event, the big Azusa street event. It goes through the specific issues of how this is known as hot reading. And then there's cold reading. And what ultimately Sean did. They got videos of it. They talk about it in detail. This stuff was all there. The evidence was right there. Why did nobody listen when this article came out? I think the answer is easy because it is. The people don't have the power to hold leaders accountable in the movement. It would only matter if a fellow leader would hold him accountable. That's the only time it would matter. You could check out this article if you want. I gave you the name of it. It would be easy to find again. It was even earlier than that. April of 2016. I've seen screenshots of Facebook conversations people are having April of 2016 about shambles, data mining people's information off the Internet. People had the info, they just let it happen anyways. The leaders didn't stop it. There was one guy who tried to call it out. His name is Jason Smedley. And he started recording back in 2015, recording things that Sean was saying and then comparing them with social media. He received a lot of criticism from the people around him until finally Paul Kane, of all people, reached out to Jason Smedley and gave him a hard time. I think I have a clip. I guess I'll share that with you guys a bit later. We'll talk about Jason Smedley more when the time comes. So people knew they had the info. They didn't do anything about it. And I honestly don't think that that was the first time it came up, was 2015. I don't think that's the first time people realized something was wrong with Sean or the grift was going on. I honestly believe that Bethel knows there's a whole bunch of fake stuff going on and they're just okay with it. There's ever reasons why they think it's okay, it's acceptable, it's serving some greater good or it's serving some other notes, not greater benefit. I don't know what the reasons are, but I do think that they're aware of this stuff. It was actually 2006 when Bill said of, according to a witness of mine, said that Sean was his spiritual son. His spiritual son. Now later they'll claim they have no authority over Sean, but Sean was going around. According to a former employee Saying that Bethel was his mother church. His mother church. Now, when time came to hold him accountable, you'll see the text messages later. Chris Valatin goes, well, we have no authority over him. So, you know, oh, well. And then Chae On's like, ah, I don't have authority over him. Patricia King's like, I don't really have authority over him. And every. Nobody's around to help when the time comes. But all this to say Bill Johnson for sure was aware of the prophecy issues and the sexual harassment issues in 2023 when he made the video on TBN. On TBN, where he endorsed Sean. Not only endorsed his book Translating God, but endorsed his character, the character of the man. In fact, let me read you one line from Bill Johnson's foreword to the book, which he obviously still stood behind in 2023, he said about Sean, the time for the authentic has come. Yeah, right here in his forward to the book. The time for the authentic has come. Oh, there's more. There's a lot more actually. Now, tbn. TBN had Sean hosting a show on TBN long after the evidence had come out internally where you. All the circles of special important people knew about it. But tbn, when it went public, they just quietly scrubbed the data off the Internet. They got rid of all of his shows. He had a show on a network and it was just disappeared without announcement. Because when the leaders know about it, nothing happens. But when you know about it, public knows about it. Then they hide. So this video I'm going to show you here, I actually took this. Gosh, it was like last year, February or something like that. It was quite a while ago. And it was just when things started going public because minor prophets went out and made their video where they were saying, hey, guys, everybody knows and nobody's doing anything about it. But this is before the witnesses came forward. I have more information. I have stuff that nobody's heard before that I'll be sharing with you guys today. So anyways, this is what TBN did. All right, I've been looking into Sean Bowles stuff. This is his search results on tbn, tbn, which previously had a video of shambles and Bill Johnson, which has just been scrubbed from their site. It's gone now. The link doesn't work. I think I've already showed you guys that at this point in my video, if I did what I planned to do. But when I click on these other videos where Sean Bowles shows up, you actually go to them. Okay, that looks like it works. There he is. Sean Bowles. It's his, his show, I believe. Translating God with shambles. That's his show. When I click to watch them, just says technical difficulties. If I do this with another video, this is him and Chaeyeon, who's nar profit guy. Apostle, supposedly.
- [97:09]
Mike Winger
And
- [97:12]
Narrator/Commentator
same issue. Technical difficulties. If I click the next one. Let's just go down here to this one. Engaging a culture. Open link. A new tab. Here it is. Looks like it should be there. The placeholder is there. The video is cycling. No apologies. Technical difficulties, it says. You guys see me sometimes. I wear hats. Anyways, this, this is part of what's going on is a. What looks like TBN scrubbing Sean Bowles from their website. There should be, if this is the case, if he needs to be scrubbed from their site because he is a false prophet who's been misleading and deceiving people and causing harm and. Well, then they should publicly come out and say it. That's the responsible thing to do. That's the biblical thing to do. That's the Christian thing to do. I don't think they will do this. It looks to me like it's more of the same. Protect, protect the movement, protect the self, protect, cover up. But don't warn the people who they misled by putting this content on their site in the first place. So the people who I especially think are accountable for dealing with Sean are those who platformed him. They have to deal with him. The people who are actually dealing with him are people who never platformed him, whose hearts just break for the victims and who are saying this has to be dealt with. We care about prophetic integrity. And more and more charismatic people are making, making noise about it. And I'm proud of you guys and I'm thankful that you are. That's a good thing. But I want those leaders, I hope they watch this video. I doubt it. I doubt Chris Valentin would watch this video. I doubt he would give it the time of day. But I hope that they will. Because what I want you to see next is I want you to see this. This is Jubilee Dawn. She's going to talk about how healing it was for her when people finally exposed Sean for who he was and how it blessed her and it meant so much to her for him to be called out. And this is what you do, is you vindicate. You're not just calling people out because you hate Sean. You're vindicating the people that they hurt. You're bringing healing to where harm was brought. You're. Even if you call out from within your own group. You're even bringing purity and integrity back into your group. But Bethel did none of those things. The person who reached out to me said that he hoped that this was not triggering for me to hear this information, but he thought that I deserved to know. And it is just healing, to be honest. It's so much closure. It is. What 24, 25 year old me needed to hear was that I didn't need to stay in that marriage and that none of that was real. So I love my TikTok community. I'm so thankful. I would have never had the, I don't know, just that absolute healing confirmation if it wasn't for this app in the community that I built on here. So I love you guys. Thank you so, so much. You have changed my life. Bethel could have easily stopped this from happening in the first place, but they could also have easily done something to bring that kind of healing from within the church, right from believers. They could have brought that kind of healing to Jubilee and so many others. Because even as this video goes out, there's new people finding out. Because even though this stuff's been exposed, it's just that the platforms aren't big enough. What we need is Bill Johnson to make a statement about Sean. Specifically that it's true. It's all true, right? Not the horrible statement that they actually made, which I will be reading later on, but that it's actually true. And tell us what you actually know. But they won't do it. It's always damage control. It's a pr. It's like talking to human resources is dealing with these guys. And it's just. It's lame and it's abusive to people. Speaking of abuse to people. We're going to talk about Shawn's sexual deviancy now. Sexual deviancy and sexual harassment. And I would think it classified as clergy sexual abuse. So I interviewed three eyewitnesses from Sean's ministry, his former employees. Three. Three eyewitnesses. I'm going to tell their stories in specific detail. And this is going to be gross and it's going to be inappropriate for kids and for you to skip past it if you want. Again, there's timestamps down below. You can just skip right past this section. But I'm going to get into it and we're going to talk about it in detail. All three of them reported very significant things. Instances of Sean's nudity, unwanted forced nudity in various scenarios, and his self pleasuring. I'll call it in front of People who were not welcoming it. They assure me there are at least 12 victims that they're aware of, 12 that they are aware of from people who all were under Sean's influence, under his authority in some sense, who he did this kind of stuff to. And their testimonies span over a decade, well over a 10 year period of time these three witnesses can attest to. And so this means that we're talking about stuff that was happening before 2005, and it was happening all the way into the late 2000 teens. And by all reasonable expectation is still happening today. I would anticipate there's no reason to think otherwise, because he's lying and deceiving and denying. So why would you think that something has suddenly changed and improved? Bill Johnson and Bethel leadership knew about this for nearly five years, at least that they knew about these things. Multiple witnesses now, they mentioned in their letter, one witness they knew about, more than one, actually. We'll go through that letter later. So they knew. Now what these guys describe, what the three men I spoke with describe is sexually domineering behavior. I would call it grooming. I think it qualifies and deviancy. That is a person who is disqualified from ministry certainly is not a prophet. And it's sick and dark. And we'll get into it. So long ago, Sean, before he was married, would have group homes where he would be the guy that was in charge of the property, like it was his house or he's renting it or whatever. And then he had a group of young men who would live with him. And so one of these group homes was in la and Sean rented this house. It was about seven men that lived in the house with him. All young men in their 20s. Sean was older than all of them. He's 51 now, so he was older than all of them. And it was, according to one witness, it was quote, like a Christian frat house. That was kind of what it was like. And also, quote, shawn was always trying to get us naked. That's a theme with Sean. Sean has a voyeuristic desire to be seen naked, it seems from multiple witnesses. And as a Christian, I'm supposed to take the consistent testimony of multiple witnesses, which doesn't have any, like, red flags of being false or something like that. And then it seems then they're confirming one another. And anyway, I got more than three, actually witnesses I can share. You'll see, it's all coming. All right. So they say Sean was always trying to get us naked. Sean would send pictures of his Private parts to guys. He'd send photos. And he tried to create a culture where that was normalized. One thing Sean does is he wants to bring people, other people, it seems, to his level of sexual depravity. So he's trying to create an environment where that stuff is normalized. He often talked about the size of his self and he would talk about it being larger than the other men's. And then he would use this in a sort of a domineering fashion. It seems the guys had conversations about Shawn. This is back, we're talking many years ago. They would have open conversations about Sean. Maybe he's gay, maybe he's gay, I don't know. Some things he does, maybe he's gay. But it was confusing to them because he would talk about sexual purity all the time. Now Sean would claim he was a virgin. He was not married until he was an older guy and he was single at this time. And he said he was a virgin. And he would say things like, if anybody on the team is caught using pornography, then they're kicked out of the ministry. He would say this, right? But this was confusing because then he would display himself and do other things. We'll get into that in a minute. More of that in a minute. About the self pleasuring stuff. And so they were confused. And of course it's confusing. You're with a sick, demonically controlled pervert, I don't know another way to call it. You're certainly not controlled by the holy spirit when you're getting up and speaking in God's name, doing these things. Anyways, this one witness I spoke to, he found he was told by Sean, hey, go get my phone or whatever. He grabs Sean's phone and he sees gay pornography on the phone. This shocked him and he showed it to another guy so that the two of them could go and confront Sean. Hey, what is the deal with this? We found this on your phone. Now, Sean's own standards are very high, verbally at least. And so they came and asked him, what is the deal here? Sean's response, according to him, was it was a joke that he deliberately looked up gay pornography, left it on his phone, visible, so that this guy would find it as a way of messing with him. Do you believe that? I don't believe that. Prior to this, this is in the LA home that he had with seven guys. Prior to this, I'm told that Sean had another group home in Alabama where three guys lived. This is even further in the past. Before I have access to those people or Those individuals. One witness from a more recent. Much more recent time, again, I've told you, this spans from 2005 to the late 2000 teens. So one from a more recent time said that Sean would regularly go to a Korean spa, a specific Korean spa in la, and he would walk around there naked. He just stripped me on. Walk around there naked. He was always trying to get the other guys to join him at the spa. Some of those watching this video, Sean has done this to you. And if you need counseling or you need to talk to somebody, that's good, man. You can recover from this. You can get over this, you can overcome this, and you'll be stronger for it in the end. And there's help for you, so you can reach out to my ministry. I'm not offering to pay for counseling for every random person that watches this video, but if you're a victim of shambles and you reach out, we want to help you out. Okay? No strings attached. There's so much more. So the things that these guys described, these witnesses, and in full agreement with each other and separately, I've interviewed them separately, and there's. There's corresponding details. So the things that they describe reveal a pattern of Sean's grooming, sexual domineering, and unwanted sexual harassment. Let me give some examples. One of the men on his first trip with Sean, he had been warned prior to the trip that Sean likes to be naked in the hotel room. Now, he thought it was a joke. He thought the guy was telling a joke. And he goes, you know, is there anything I need to know about Shawn? He goes, well, you know, he likes to be naked in the hotel room. He was like, okay. He thought he was joking. Was not true. It was not true that it was a joke. It was just a fact. So when they get to the hotel room, within minutes, Sean just strips his clothes off. And this becomes part of a pattern of trapped conditions. Sean in conditions where people are trapped, they're stuck with him. That's when he takes advantage. So he pulls his clothes off, and he's just walking around naked. Then things got worse. And I'll walk through the timeline of this a little bit more later, but he at one point woke up to Sean pleasuring himself. And then Sean just started doing it all the time. All the time. And it was in these trapped conditions. They're traveling, they're in a hotel room. One of them, he's in a car when it happens. I'll talk about that. This is the pattern with him. Ongoing, continual, repeated pattern for many Years of doing these sort of things with guys in trapped conditions without consent. Now, consent wouldn't make it okay. It would still be morally wrong. But it is different when you take away consent and you go, you're his boss, you're his spiritual leader. You're the guy who's footing the bill, and you're doing this one time, one of the guys very boldly said, because he was upset about it, and Sean was again, naked on the top of the covers of his bed, and he was doing this stuff to himself. And he says, if you're going to do that, go into the stinking bathroom. Although he didn't say stinking. And Sean replied, you go to the bathroom. If you don't like it, I'm paying for the room and travel. One of the gentlemen who was back then experiencing these things actually took a video of Sean doing this. Not as a way of delighting in it, but probably as a way of, I'm guessing, to try to get control of his life. Because it's oppressive. It's oppressive. It's domineering and oppressive for him to do this to them. In my opinion, it's sexually abusive. So he takes this video of it and then shows it to another one of the guys in the group, and he's like, as a way of saying, look at this is so wrong and disgusting. Now, some of you are thinking, I don't understand how this could happen. If you've never been in an environment of, say, a really toxic home, a really bad scenario, really unhealthy relationships, then, yeah, you don't understand how this could happen because you've never seen it happen before. But this stuff happens all the time, and it usually takes people a long time to get out of it and then to sort of detoxify from the environment where they start to realize how they were brought through a deliberate path. I'll talk about the pathway that Shawn uses through a deliberate path to get them to the place where they were vulnerable enough where someone could do this to them. And it is understandable. Anyways, Shawn would give justifications according to the witnesses. He would say things like, I'm a prophet. I need release. So this is why he can pleasure himself in front of other people without their consent is partly because he is a prophet. He needs release. Now, I want you to think about what it means to tie your prophetic, supposed prophetic gifting to your disgusting, sexually perverted behaviors. What does that mean about your soul? What does that mean about the nature of this guy, about him exposing himself he said that was, quote, normal stuff that happened between guys in locker rooms. That was what I've been told, that he would use the locker room excuse as a regular way of sort of deferring, you know, like, oh, that's just normal. Exposing myself. That's normal locker room stuff, guys. I don't think that is normal locker room stuff, guys. But I also think that Sean is not a locker room guy in the first place. Take a look at the guy. He's not exactly been in a lot of locker rooms doing a lot of sports things. He likes to surround himself. He has a type of. Of guys he likes. He likes young, athletic guys to be serving alongside of him. That's true, but he has not been the athletic guy. He just likes them. He would tell people who confronted him that they were being religious. He actually tried to convince one of my witnesses that something was wrong with him because he was bothered by Sean's behavior. Well, you're religious. You're too bound up by religion. You have spirit of religion. That's why you don't want me to be fondling myself. You don't want me to be doing these things that I'm doing in front of you. Now I want to talk about how it impacted one of my witnesses because this has been a consistent story. I've heard it led him to suicidal ideation and eventually PTSD episodes. While there, he received a lot of counseling and has improved a lot. But even this video is something that is going to be challenging for him to deal with, and he's working through it. I had to make sure. Are you sure you're okay with me sharing these things? I don't want to do anything that's going to bring harm to you. And hopefully it's part of his healing because finally people are going to know the truth. Something he tried to make happen. But it didn't happen because Sean's board wouldn't listen, because the leadership at Bethel and other individuals would not listen. They wouldn't do anything to stop him. They would just distance themselves from him and tell others. Ooh, Mojaver. John, there's witnesses in the wings ready to come forward. You wouldn't want to be around him. That's the message that I think went out. That's how I think it really went. So a common thing among guys I talk to is these, like, suicidal ideation or just PTSD or basically they experience a lot of nasty, sick trauma from a guy who's supposed to be a prophetic leader. A different witness. Let me tell you about a different guy's story. Sean got in the backseat of the car all of a sudden with this employee and just started doing his thing, pleasing himself. Right. I don't want to give more details. You know what that means? He was in the backseat of the car, all of a sudden, just climbs back there and just does this with him right there in the front without permission or consent or something like that. Again, consent doesn't make it okay, but it makes it even worse to not have it. And he knew that this young man at the time, he was a victim of prior sexual abuse, and Sean knew this about the man. You will find that a target person for somebody who is exhibiting the behaviors that we're hearing about, that we're hearing Sean exhibited. Those kinds of people tend to target those who suffered abuse in the past because they're sort of more ready for it in the future. That's the sad reality, is that someone who. Who abuses their child very often leads to that. Say it's a girl, leads to that girl marrying an abusive man. They're primed for certain behaviors and certain relational dynamics, and so they target them. This is not a surprise because Paul Kane, one of Sean Bowles mentors and a guy who sought to protect Shawn when people were trying to expose him earlier, who has since died. Thankfully, he's not around to protect Shawn now. Paul Kane would do this with his interns. He would hire multiple interns who were former homosexuals and then bring them in, and then they're repentant. They need guidance. They need spiritual leadership. But he would groom them and stuff. That's already been public. That's been public for a while now about Paul Kane, one of the supposed Kansas City prophets connected to Mike Bickle and all this, who had a hand in protecting Sean and keeping him from getting exposed even earlier. So Sean does this in the trapped car situation where he's driving, and boom, he just does this all of a sudden. Then it was in hotel rooms. Then when he's challenged, he mocks the person challenging him. This employee who challenges him, he mocks him. He breaks him down. He talks about how he's the man of God and he's the prophet, and he's tearing down the walls systematically in this person's life to make it more normal. Sean would insinuate him to himself in their lives so that they feel like he's involved in every part of their life, every decision they make. They have to talk to Sean about it. They have to get his wisdom and his guidance on everything. He's like a mentor. He's also an employer. He's like their best friend. He's also their landlord. This incredible cult like connection that he has with people and then connects it to these intimate, perverse things. And then if you don't like it, he shames you and he spiritually berates you over it. Another thing this particular witness told me is Sean, and I'll just read what he said, loved to whip his thing out and show it to everybody. This is an assertion of dominance. That's what this is. I believe this anyways, is an assertion of dominance. This is about power and man. Sean must like power. The power of being in a room and being the man of God who gets the word of God, the best prophet of our day. You must like that power. The power of stripping down and exposing yourself and forcing that on other people. I think maybe that feels good in some disgusting way to him. So let me talk to you now about how he progresses. I think it's calculated, I think it's intentional. And after being a domestic violence counselor for years, there's often progression when people get others into these really unhealthy, deeply wicked relationships. It doesn't just go straight to it usually. Typically it's a long, slow process to get somebody into the place where they're exposed to those things. For instance, you don't know that Sean's going to do this to you until after you're already hired, after you've already got a paycheck coming in, after you're already in a hotel room and you're already trapped, and you've already come to think of him as this man of God, Then it happens. And that environment makes it difficult for you to do something about it. It's not impossible, but it makes it harder. Okay, so here's the progression. First trip, hotel room trip. Within a minute of stepping into the room, Sean is completely nude. Walking around completely nude. From then on, it was going to be prolonged nudity. He would be nude for hours in the room. Just anytime he's in the room, he is not wearing clothes. That was the normal thing that was going on at the time. He would also then ask for massages while he was not wearing clothes in the hotel room. Can you give me a massage? Oh, my back hurts. Oh, give me a massage, man. Come on, man. Come on, dude. I'm not comfortable touching you with your. Wait, you're a religious spirit, you know, you need to let go of that religious spirit. Whatever it was, this kind of thing was going on. One Time in particular, I'm sorry to even say this stuff out loud. Sean was aroused physically standing over this person near him, and he was near him and wagging and saying, why won't you look at it? Why won't you look at it? Look at it. You see the progression. They're pushing it, pushing it, pushing it. Now when the guy doesn't look, he goes, oh, I'm shaming you. You're not looking because you have this problem. You're not looking because you have that character issue or that fear or that insecurity. And that's the reason why you don't want to look at me. Let me talk about multiple moments of the self pleasuring. Okay? So first time in a hotel room at 3:00 in the morning. This witness believes Shawn purposely woke him up and Sean is there doing his thing. Also, Sean warns him around the same time. He says, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night jerking off. That's what he tells the guy. So this is him probably trying to cover his bases, cover his tracks. Right? This is obviously not an accident. He's not sleepwalking. This is something he's doing deliberately. Second time, second time, now he's in London. In London, Sean is doing an event called God Secrets in London. And somehow Sean got them into the honeymoon suite. At this hotel, they don't get a normal room, they get the honeymoon suite, him and his employee. And the honeymoon suite has a clear glass shower. And the guy's uncomfortable with this because he's obvious for obvious reasons. Right? So he actually showers in his shorts. He's that uncomfortable with the things that are going on. And they're together in the room the next morning. And now it's not. Wake up in the middle of the night. Oh, I sometimes do that. I wake up. He just asks the guy openly, right there as they're hanging out in the morning. Morning is Sean's time for this stuff. He says, do you care? Sean asked him, do you care if I jerk off? The guy does not give permission. Sean just does it anyways, all the way, everything. Again, he's doing a conference called God's Secrets in London. The third time. I want to show the progression here from nudity to engaged nudity to physical stuff, say, oh, I was sleepwalking to then asking permission to. Finally, next time he doesn't ask, he just starts. It's in the morning, he's on his bed, not wearing any clothes, on top of the covers, and just goes for it. This led to, for this gentleman Depression, trauma, suicidal ideation, different guy we're talking about here. Counseling, long recovery. Again, if you're one of Shawn's victims, please reach out to my ministry, BibleThinker.org and we will help you out. And a warning has to go out to Sean's current team members, the people that are working with him now, the people that are around him now. He's obviously a very dangerous man. He probably should be brought up on charges. I'm not the law. I don't have that kind of power, and I'm not the witness. But I can warn the church. Hey, guys, this is editing. Mike coming in here. Sorry for the satire. Here's the thing. I was editing the video just now, and I noticed that I didn't mention something that I thought I did talk about, which is that one of the three former employees told me that the progression actually went to the point where, in his case, Sean was doing this every morning whenever they were traveling. Every morning, he would wake up in the room with Sean, and he'd be nude, and he'd be performing to completion the perverse act. This was constant, continual, and who knows where the progression would have gone had any of these guys been, you know, open to it. We just don't know the answer to that question. And it does need to be brought up and that this does need to be pursued. This is insane, this stuff. I hope that somehow the ball gets rolling forward after this video to bring more accountability to Sean. Now there's more that all three of these people confirmed. And some of those things were Sean as a big fat liar. All three of them confirmed that he was known as a guy who was dishonest and untruthful, as opposed to Bill Johnson, who says one of our most trusted friends. I was told Sean often exaggerated stories. Again, this is an over 10 year period of time. These people represent. He says 10 people would profess faith. And Sean would later tell a crowd that 100 people did. When he was confronted about this and said, hey, Sean, you lied to those people, he would just say, oh, I got excited. I get excited. I just. I get excited. He was well known for exaggerating and lying. Even back in 2008, they called him, quote, shaun the Liar. I double checked with this witness. I was like, people, like, actually called him that, like a nickname. And he goes, yeah, Shaun the Liar. That was the nickname that they had for him. Bethel introduced him to the world as one of our most trusted friends. Another witness, different witness, said that about the fake prophecy stuff that Sean would Ask for the WI FI password when they visited churches that he wanted. Also wanted access to the back end to find info on those who were attending a Spokane conference that they put on. So there's a specific memory of a specific conference at Spokane where he was like, he made up a story, it seems about like, oh, I want to see if somebody I know might be attending the conference so I could comp them. And yet to that person's employees knowledge, nobody was comped. And that didn't happen. Right. He just wanted information to the back end. Which is an old Paul Kane trick. Right? Paul Kane's like, can I go look at your church records? He says this witness, he is a profound liar. He gives another example, says once Sean played video games all day and when he went to the conference, he was giving words of knowledge to people. Right? He gives words and says that he got those words from God while he was in his room. Why does he say he got him in the room? Because he's got them on his smart device and he's got to read off the device. He probably got them like late at night when he's scrolling around, looking at the check ins and checking people's Facebooks and trying to see who's there, or maybe checking to see who signed in. Compare the names of the people that signed in and then search for Facebook to see if you can find them. At any rate, he just played video games all day in the hotel room. I'm guessing he was wearing no clothes, playing video games all day in the hotel room. He didn't spend any time seeking the Lord. He didn't spend any time getting words from God. But he told the conference people that he did. That's what the witness is testifying. He says also that he never saw Sean pray. Never. Not on his own, obviously. On stage, sure, but not on his own. Never saw Sean open his Bible. He never saw Sean do any personal devotion. And I will quote him now. Never, Mike. Never. There's another witness who says that Sean was third one here, well known for ridiculous exaggerations and he made light of it. He would use funds against their designated purposes, which is actually what led to this. This person quitting. And when it came to the fake prophecy thing, he says, regarding one of the testimonies of the other guys, because I shared some of the stuff between the guys. And he says, I know his experience was real, even though he's never met the guy. He goes, because I saw the same thing in my own experience. And there's more guys now. Any One of these individual things you might not grab. Mike, you have. You're not going to tell us the names of these guys? No. I would like you to leave them alone. You guys can. Those who want to defend Shawn can come at me and leave these guys alone. How's that sound? They don't need to be brought out. I know who they are. I've confirmed them. I've confirmed their stories with multiple sources. And I'm going to share more stuff with you very shortly that will make it even stronger. You'll see. But the thing is, we are, as Christians, supposed to take the testimony of multiple witnesses as having weight. We have got 100 witnesses about Sean. Whether it's from the video footage that we've got, the evidence, the behind the scenes stuff, I'm about to share with you relatively soon here about the charismatic leaders, how they knew that this stuff was real and they believed it. And which is why Chris Valatin behind the scenes was like, sean can't come to any of our events. Even though Bill went publicly and endorsed the man, disgustingly, even though TBN continued to have his show up until it was so public that they just quietly removed it and didn't say anything. We're going to share all that stuff with you guys. It's important that we understand for you guys it's only been seconds, but for me, it has been a couple hours. I just finished interviewing with another couple who, behind the scenes, has been mistreated by ministry. This is not about today's video, though. That's something else. So the bottom line is, from the stuff you just saw, when I say Bethel knew, what we mean is that Bethel had the awareness of these accusations, of the gross stuff that I just talked about in detail about the fake prophecy stuff. They had information that gave them the knowledge of these things, the ability to reasonably know. Like, I don't know if they'd be like, well, we didn't know. We weren't really convinced. You can say this all day long, but the information was there. You should have been convinced. And they didn't do the right thing. So it's not just that they thought, well, maybe sometimes he has cheated a little in the prophetic, which that alone would have been actionable evidence, but it was worse. So one of my witnesses, he went to several charismatic leaders years ago and he did this so that by early 2020, a bunch of them knew about Sean Bowles and they knew about his disgusting, gross, perverted, domineering, sexually harassing behaviors. And they went to. Let me give Some specifics, they went to Patricia King. Patricia King, who behind the scenes was very supportive and very much like, I want to help you, I want to help this situation. You know, I care. She recorded this guy's full story. Like there's an audio recording of his entire telling of his whole story. Actually, it's three different recordings. And she recorded this so that she could send it on to Cha an and send it on to Chris Valatin. And so everybody, at this point, it was like everybody was knowing about this stuff. In fact, let me put their pictures up for you as well. Chris Valatin, he knew. Okay, with, with, with my witness, with his approval, she sent the information on to Chris Vallith. And he listened to the recording. He was sent it. And the other major charismatic leader was Che Shay. Che or Shay on, I think it's Che, I don't know. Anyways, it was this guy who's running for governor of California right now as we speak. And these guys all knew. They knew about Sean's depravity and they knew about the evidence that he had faked prophecies and taking advantage of people. These are people who had helped him, who had platformed him or otherwise assisted Sean to get to where he was. And they knew, they heard the recording. They knew about multiple victims, not just the only one that I'm talking about who was recorded. So Chris Valatin also told Danny Silk and we have evidence of this in a text message. So at this point, Chris Valatin starts having a conversation, a correspondence with one of my witnesses, one of the victims, guys who, you know, he's not forever a victim, but who was victimized by Sean. That text conversation I'm going to show with you now. I'm going to share with you now. I'm going to put on screen and you're going to see this took place starting in April of 2020, but going all the way until, gosh, is it sometime late 2021 or something like that? I'll show you the dates when we get there, but here's the conversation and we're going to walk through it step by step. So you guys can understand that even though Bethel more recently implied that they weren't sure that it was all true, there were allegations and da, da, da. Chris implied on Instagram recently that it was uncertain as to whether it was true. You will see through these text messages that that was not his posture in private. In private, he knew it was true. In public, they were doing damage control and cover up culture. So here my source says, hey, Chris, I hope you're doing well. Are there any updates with the situation about Sean? I believe you've received the audio recording of my experience, but I'm wondering what is next. Again, Patricia King recorded it, sent it to chaeyeon. Chayon was like, send it over to Chris. I believe you received it. Yeah. What's next? If you prefer to chat briefly on the phone, let me know. Thank you. So a few hours later, Chris gets back and says, April 17, 2020. I've been aware of the situation for a while. Thank you for caring. The next day he says, we start an investigation into Sean's ministry. I'll get back to you in a couple months as we find the truth and bring wholeness. Thanks for reaching out to us. The implication now is Chris has the ball. Right. This guy went to Patricia King, who went to Chaon, who went to Chris Valatin. And now the heavy hitters are getting involved. Right. These are like people who can make a difference, because if this guy just comes out against Sean, he'll just get slandered and that'll be the end of the story. Right. Which is what happened before to Justin Smedley, who came out against Sean, rightly so, and was attacked by Paul Kane and ended up having weird things happen there. So, okay, heavy hitters are involved. Something good's going to happen. They're obviously taking the ball. Bethel sees themselves as having a place in this investigation. I mean, they're doing an investigation. Certainly they won't later on say, we have no authority over Sean. We have no place in this. Right. They wouldn't say that later, would they? Okay, so some time goes by. June 18th now. Hey, Chris, it's been a couple months and wondering if there is an update. It would help my heart to know what's going on. Thanks. It's kind of weird that this person was not. They weren't the victim. They weren't being. Nobody's corresponding with them. No one's staying in touch with them to tell them about the meetings they're having about the confrontation supposedly they had with Sean. So he has to reach out a couple months later. Then Chris responds. We have met with Sean on three occasions now. Last Friday, I flew down to meet with him for a few hours. I think we're moving forward, but it's really slow. We've had some very hard conversations, as I'm sure you can imagine. I would like to give Danny your contact info, if that's okay. He would like to reach out to you and see how we can help. Bring Some closure to your situation with Sean. What they're trying to do right now, I think is broker forgiveness and have Sean go, I'm sorry for what I did. How can I make it right? And for this person to go, thank you for acknowledging it, I forgive you. Here's what I'm asking. That wasn't going to happen because Sean was denying, he was denying that he had done this sexual harassment stuff. Supposedly it's allegedly hypothetically true that Sean told somebody that his lawyer told him he has to lie about it because of the legal ramifications of if it came out. And so he has to take it to his grave. Allegedly, supposedly, hypothetically, possibly in some plausible world. And so it doesn't happen. Right? The next text message is from December. So that much time goes by without resolution. It's December of 2020. Chris, when are you going to intervene? Sean Bowles has gone two years without having to answer for what he did to me. And I keep being passed on like a nuisance. When will he have to answer for the damage he caused to me? And guys, again, there's over 12 that we're aware of that we could say received similar type treatment from Sean. And yeah, even there's stuff I know that I can't even tell you guys. I've been promised a meeting with Sean, he says, where he would clean up his mess, and yet I'm still waiting and now being told Sean won't give me an adequate apology. Could you imagine if what was done to me had happened to one of your sons or grandsons, how pissed you would be? But yet restitution hasn't been made and I'm still pushed to the side like a nuisance. I'm trying to do everything biblically but growing frustrated. Can you please help? I'm tired of being put off and treated like a nuisance. Does anyone really have my best interest at heart? Sean is doing his thing and not having to answer for what he did to me. Now, this is exactly the kind of thing a number of other people I've talked to have gone through. Because what happens is they go to leadership. Hey, this person mistreated me. This person did this, this, this. Their ministry's got major problems. There's financial, this, there's personal abuse type things. They're gone. And there's all this stuff, right? The leader who they go to exudes compassion. They love bomb them. They're like, oh, I care. I'll pray for you. Oh, yes, I want to be in your corner and have your back. But whenever it comes time to pull the trigger and do something public, they're left on their own. And that's exactly what's going to happen here, as you'll see as we read on. So the next part of the conversation, Chris Valatin responds. You're going to have to understand that I have no authority over Sean. Wait, what? What? Patricia King Chayon. They brought it to you for some reason, right, Chris? You then started an investigation, right? You have no authority over Sean. I don't know what authority you think you have to have to hold someone accountable who you've brought into your network and you've put on stage and you've introduced as your most trusted friend. At least Bethel has, collectively, because Bill Johnson, he speaks for you, too. You have a place to do this. But now he has no authority. So I have no authority over Sean. He doesn't work for me. He doesn't belong to my organization. And I flew down to meet him and spent the entire day there and flew back. I asked him to clean up his mess, and he's evidently decided not to. We've decided to not have him minister in our network anymore and made it very clear that until he repents, you can't have any influence in anything that we do. If he worked for me or was licensed through our organization or even had a deeper connection to us. Deeper connection. We'll talk more about that deep connection in a minute. Remember, these are the guys that made Sean the household name in the charismatics, you know, in that stream. Deeper connection. All you have to do is tweet. Just tweet out publicly. Sean Bowles is a fraud and he is a sexual deviant, and everybody needs to be warned about him. You wouldn't have to say anything else, and it would have worked anyway. He says if you worked for me or was licensed through our organization or even had a deeper connection to us, I would certainly be able to do more. If you feel you need to sue him, then maybe that's what you should do. Again, I'm not telling you to do that for legal clarity reasons. Maybe. I don't know. And I'm just telling you that if you want to take this further, then I would recommend that you do something that light a fire under him. Remember that phrase, lighting a fire under him? I'm very sorry for your pain. I totally understand how you feel. It's just that we have no authority in his life. They have no ability to control Sean whatsoever. You're going to find out a lot more soon enough, but this is the Bail point. The bail point is, ah, he's not going to listen to us. Well, privately, we'll confront Woolworth, but we're not going to publicly do anything. Then Chris, it appears as though he was sending the. You know, I said for legal reasons, right? So it appears as though he took the message he just sent over to my witness and he sent it to somebody meant to send it to somebody else. So he copied it and he accidentally pasted it back into the same thread. So he says, this was my response. And then he has the exact same statement again. But there's more. The response to this came from my witness who says, chris, I do understand that you have no authority over Sean and his ministry. I do. However, that doesn't wash you or Bethel's hands of Shawn. And I'm like, yeah, go, guy. I won't use any names here, but this is so good what he's about to say. I wouldn't know of Shawn's ministry or know Shawn personally if it wasn't for Sean speaking at Bethel. I resigned my job at Bethel and moved to LA thinking Sean was trustworthy and the real deal. Because of his influence at Bethel, or maybe because Bill said, our most trusted friend, one of our most trusted friends, maybe because Teresa debon introduced him as, like, one of the greatest prophetic voices on the planet. He says, I trusted that he. That the leadership at Bethel wouldn't allow Sean to speak if he wasn't trustworthy. Shawn wouldn't have one third of his following if Bethel had not given him a platform. I appreciate you and Bethel taking a stand and not allowing Sean to have influence in your network. What about people that don't hold leadership positions in your network? Good question. The normal people that follow Sean because they were introduced to him by Bethel's wide reach and influence and continue to do so because they aren't aware of what Sean has done. Will there be a statement from Bethel? Maybe this would light a fire under Sean? Wouldn't that have been amazing? If, I don't know, 2017, 2015, 16, there had been a public statement, I bet you that would have saved a lot of people a lot of pain and suffering. Will there be a statement from Bethel? Maybe this would light a fire under Sean. Chris, if you don't mind lighting fires, light one yourself. I know Bethel has been in talks with TBN about having their own channel. Maybe this has happened already. But what about Matt and Lori Crouch, the TBN people? I highly doubt they would continue to give Sean influence if they were aware of Bethel's change in relationship with him. Maybe this would light a fire under Sean. I'm not so sure if that's entirely true. He had a presence. He had a show on TBN up until it was finally very loudly, very publicly shouted. And all of a sudden, they disappeared it. Right. Why does Bethel's online store still offer Sean's resources if Sean can't have influence? Good question, Chris. I think these are valid questions. If you understand how I feel, you'll understand where I'm probably, you said coming from or something like that there. So then, January 9, 2021, he says, I'd appreciate a response to my three questions. See, because Chris didn't respond to him on the 18th, he said, I have no authority over SEAN. Then on December 29, the reply is, hey, here's some questions I have for you. I don't think this absolves you guys. You should take action. Then January 9th, finally, there's another message from the witness saying, I'd appreciate a response to my three questions. Chris, this is now 2021. I don't want to go outside the Bethel stream because I know it will cause damage to Bethel. Now, that is the thing that Bethel cares about. They're like, we do not want that. I've spoken to a few sources that are ready to run with the info if Bethel doesn't do the right thing and warn the body of Christ. And I know it will appear like my situation and the fraudulent words of knowledge are being covered up by Bethel. It does appear that way. It does now. It didn't have to. It does now. I'm trying to do the right thing. In regards to question number one, I don't expect you all to necessarily be specific in your statement, but at least warn the body of Christ about Sean. I look forward to your response. This is a perfectly modest request. And he's saying, like, if you don't do it, it may come out without you. Okay. And they still didn't. Still didn't do it. Here's the response from Chris. At this point, we don't intend to make a public statement about Shawn. As you pointed out, a public statement wouldn't just hurt Sean, but the entire prophetic ministry worldwide. It was actually his statement that it would hurt Bethel, as in hurt their reputation because of what it would look like to people. And it will. And it's going to do that right now, as it has since it came out, since it all started coming out. And it's just. I'm making it more loud. But Chris's Response is that it would hurt the entire prophetic ministry worldwide that exposing a fake, sexual harassing, deviant, fake prophet, that that would hurt God's ministry of prophetic work around the world. Really, really delusions of grandeur here or something. Something weird is going on because that is nuts. You know what it will do to the prophetic ministry to expose the frauds? It will purify it. You know what God did to the prophetic ministry in the time of Jeremiah? He sent Jeremiah out there and he was like, confront these fake prophets who prophesied dreams that I didn't give them, who prophesied the desires of their own hearts as though they're coming from me. And he sent Jeremiah to confront him. Could you imagine, like, whose side would Chris have been on? Would he be like, well, Jeremiah, I don't know if you should do this. You're going to hurt the prophetic ministry world worldwide. I don't know. I noticed that Sean doesn't do words of knowledge anymore. Now the excuses start to come. We're going to walk through this in detail. I notice he claims Sean doesn't do words of knowledge anymore. That was not true. I also think that he lost his house. At least that's what I heard. He did downsize. That was the phrase Sean used. He downsized, it seems. I don't know if it's true, but it seems like it. I have no relationship with him anymore and I don't want one. I also heard that he has increased his accountability going forward. Remember he says that because I think this is like gobbledygook corporate speak or something. Supposedly increased his accountability. I understand that he hasn't cleaned up his mess, but it looks like he's changed his prophetic ministry. He's changed. This is damage control. Now what Sean did is Sean stopped giving these words of knowledge because everybody knew about it. Because every time he did it, they would go on Facebook to prove what he was doing was fake. And it was like, the gig is up. You know, as soon as you know how the magician does the trick, he's like, I probably shouldn't keep doing that trick. They all know how I'm doing it. They're like watching the wrong hand and they see the thing I did. So, yeah, he stopped doing that in public. But he still gives vague prophetic words constantly. He still gives private prophetic words as I'll share evidence of that. So he's still manipulating people with prophecy all the time. He goes on and says, we no longer have a contract with tbn. I haven't seen Matt Crouch in over a year. But I'm not going to take the role of. Of going from ministry to ministry and telling them that Sean was giving bad prophetic words. Just tweet it one time, Chris. That's all it takes. I don't have time to do that. I have no desire to call around every time I see Sean on a new platform. Here's the thing. That's not what the witness asked him to do. What he asked him to do was to make a public statement, because then it would just go wildfire. It would take care of itself. If Bethel made a public statement that was intended to be public, it wasn't just to staff and it wasn't just to Bethel alumni, and it wasn't just like some small. It was rather, here's Bethel as a church that has worldwide impact, that has lifted up this guy for the world to be a prophet. Here's us saying we're sorry. We have found out that he has a fraudulent ministry. And everyone who's had a word from him, you need to test it again. He's also disqualified because of some things that he's done wrongly to employees of his. You could have just. Even that much would have made a huge difference. Then they would not have come to me. These witnesses would not have come to me. To me saying, mike, please go ahead and tell our story. They would not have come. And it would have been better. I would have preferred it, too. That would have been much better. Just like I reached out to Sean before I made this video. And I mean, like months and months ago, I think February of last year, I reached out like a year ago almost saying, hey, it's better if you just come forward, come and defend yourself. If these things aren't true, you're saying they're not true. And then later I reached out again and said, it's better that you just go forward and tell the truth. I'd rather you do that than me make a video. So the closer you can get, the exposure to the actual people doing it, the more health that is to the body, the more integrity that restores into those ministries. But when it comes from as far out as me, that is not going to be. It's just going to look bad for you guys, because it should. That's just how it is. So he says, I haven't seen Matt Crouch. I'm not going to go door to door on all this stuff. Then he says, towards the bottom here, I don't have time to do that. I have no desire to call around every time I see Sean on a new platform. I've told many leaders in our network about Sean dishonest prophetic ministry. Then he says most of them have canceled him. So he was obviously convinced that Sean was guilty. Right? Like that. That seems very clear. Sean's definitely guilty because you wouldn't warn people about a guy who's not guilty. We also know that Cheon pushed it to you because he thought you were the right guy for the job. Or at least that's what the testimony I've heard suggests. We also know that Sean's book shows the kind of relationship you guys had. Allow me to now read from Sean's book. Put me back on the screen here. Sean Bowles's book. Here's Randy Clark's endorsement. I not only want to recommend the book, I want to recommend the author. Sean has developed into a very healthy prophetic minister and some very powerful and accurate words that have greatly encouraged many. Shouldn't Randy Clark say something publicly about Shawn? If after that endorsement, what about James Gall? Who I would. I've dubbed him the newspaper prophet because I believe he was getting prophecies from newspaper speculation. He was reading papers and speculating and the stuff he got right and wrong looked like it came from the newspaper or from news reporting anyways. James Gaul, another leader in the movement, says, I've personally known Sean Bowles and observed his ministry journey for one well over 20 years. The book you hold in your hands is the fruit of joining the generations with years under his belt, a giftedness that is undeniable and a lifestyle that exalts Christ Jesus. It is my honor to commend to you the ministry and writings of Sean Bowles. There's others. C. Peter Wagner endorses this. Bobby Connor endorses this. Georgian Banov endorses this. Eric Johnson, Bill Johnson's son. I'll read what he wrote. It is not often that we get to see a prophetic gift mature in front of our eyes. I'm so thankful for Sean Bowles and his approach to life and the nature of God. The maturing, by the way, is in 2013, Facebook's become searchable and all of a sudden Sean's able to prophesy way, way more accurately about people's lives, words of knowledge. That's the maturing that I think he's referring to. I'm so thankful for Sean Bull's Eric Johnson says, and his approach to life and the nature of God. Our people here at Bethel Church reading and have been deeply impacted over the years by what Sean carries. Oh, man. If that hasn't changed meaning since he wrote it, they've been deeply impacted. That's true. Over the years by what Sean carries, whatever that is. Every time he visits our church, we experience promotion and increase. Translating God. That's the name of the book. Translating God is a must read for anyone interested in learning how God sees people and how he interacts and engages with us. It will take you to another level. They're always selling. The selling point is always next level of spiritual stuff. We've got endorsements from Mickey Robinson, Johnny and Lance Wall. Now Sean Foyt, Fatine Gres. I cannot pronounce that person's name. Jonathan Welton, Sinew McGill, Bishop Joseph Garlington and also Benny Johnson, Bill Johnson's wife, who wrote the following. Sean, as a young boy and now as an adult, has stewarded the prophetic in a natural way that has been been beautiful to watch. Really. I don't think that's true. And there's other endorsers too. Then on the back of his book, Sean talks about. And you can see it. You can see it here. If you're those of you who really want to pause and zoom in, you can read it. I'll read it to you. He thanks Chaey here. I'll read a couple of them. Here's several. I want to thank Mike Bickle and everyone involved in my prophetic development during my time in Kansas City. Mike Bickle exposed as a guy who would use prophecy to abuse people and women in particular. I want to thank Rick Joyner and Morningstar Ministries for being pioneers and for receiving me as an extended family member. Rick, David Yarns and the rest of the Morningstar friends, I'm grateful. I want to thank Heidi and Roland Baker for modeling what hearing God's voice can do to transform the poor of the earth. You have personally grounded me in the love that this book speaks of just by example and the time we spent together. I want to thank Chae and Su Ahn and Hroc and him for being so good for my growth and heart. Thanks for the relationship and all the opportunities to grow and give away who I am. I love being part of the family. Finally, I want to thank Bill and Benny Johnson and the Johnson family, Chris and Kathy Valatin, Danny and Sherry Silk and the rest of my Bethel family. You give me such great joy to be part of your family. There are too many of you to name, so I'm sticking with the moms and dads. Thank you for being the Place of love and faith and for giving grace for this new prophetic season to emerge. Right. That's his launching pad was in Bethel. Later turns into we have no authority over Sean. It's not my job to go around and tell people about him and warn him about him. These endorsements mean you have to publicly because you publicly put him on stage. You launched him. You've got to be the guys who tried to help shut him down for the sake of the benefit of the body of Christ. Do you love your people, is the question, or do you love your movement? Now, let's talk about some of the justifications that are in this response. This text message from Chris. He says Sean doesn't do words of knowledge anymore. That is actually not true. There's a clip from Sean's YouTube channel, November 8, 2024, that shows that the prophetic and words and operating in words were still core to his ministry. Right. His prophetic stuff is ongoing. It's just shifted in the same sense that you, you go underground. Benny Hinn tries to only ask people to give $10,000 when there's not a camera around. Now, like, he tends to do that because he said he would never do it again. So you can still catch him on camera doing it sometimes, but he'll just be more careful about how he does it. That's what cover up culture does. So here's Sean talking about his ongoing prophetic ministry and how there's a lot here. He's going to defend himself. He's going to deny the accusations. He's going to show that he still prophesies, and we'll show that these excuses that Chris gave were not. Were not good to set this video up. You just need to know that Sean had prophesied Trump would have two terms. Obviously, Trump has had two terms now, and that's why he came out and made this video. He's like, vindicated. We're vindicated. And he still says he kind of messed up, but they're kind of vindicated and they're kind of playing games with it. But that's the backdrop is there was this time he prophesied Trump would win in 2020. He said Trump would have two terms. He would be in office in 2020. Right. From 2020 to 2024, 2021 to 24, he's going to be in office. And that's not what happened. So he later apologized for it and he came under a lot of fire. Around the same time, these allegations started coming out more publicly. Faking prophecy. And then behind the scenes, the sexual allegations were also coming out. Sean's having talks with Danny and Chris, and he's denying everything. Okay. That's the context of this conversation. Now listen.
- [153:34]
Mike Winger
And I prophesied on a national format, and then Fox News called me and said, is Trump going to win it again? And I said, yes, absolutely. I see a second term. And so the problem was the second term didn't come right away. And the warfare that came against prophetic people and Christians in that moment, both secularly in society and then also in the church and moved movements, whole movements, who didn't know what to do and how to stand.
- [153:57]
Narrator/Commentator
So he. He generally, you see this couch, this issue as like, oh, it's not really about me. It's about the warfare against everybody. It's kind of like when Chris was told, this is going to make Bethel look bad, and he goes, you're right. It would be bad for the prophetic movement worldwide. Right. Like, it's. It's that kind of thing.
- [154:12]
Mike Winger
With that, I had. I mean, I've been around for 30 years, and, you know, church cultures, I've been kind of a staple to a lot of charismatic churches and charismatic movements and pastors were mad, and then they start to accuse us of researching stuff on Facebook. And, I mean, this whole attack came where it's like, you've done all these things that are wrong, and you did, and all of it was false. And I had to say, I don't agree. And then during that time, I was also pivoting to go after social commentary, media, and production.
- [154:39]
Narrator/Commentator
Chris presented the pivot as he's no longer doing words of knowledge. He's moving away from prophecy. He's reshaping his ministry. He has increased accountability. I know he hasn't cleaned up his mess, but there was a bunch of things to kind of, like, soften, and it was all damage control. And the way he talks about it now, he goes, I was pivoting. I was just pivoting my ministry. In a way, it was that all the accusations were false. All of the accusations were false. Digging up words of knowledge. And then he just vaguely says all of the accusations, which implies these other ones which were, I believe, true.
- [155:08]
Mike Winger
And it was such a perfect storm for prophetic people. Some prophetic people got annihilated by the New York Times and. And Washington Post and all these.
- [155:15]
Narrator/Commentator
These poor prophetic people. They're not. They weren't prophetic. That's exactly it. They're not prophetic at all. And they got exposed when they falsely predicted Something that didn't happen. And it was a global event, different
- [155:26]
Mike Winger
places and all these rumors came and it was really easy to believe the worst about people. For two years I didn't prophesy anything publicly. That was publicly.
- [155:37]
Narrator/Commentator
I'm going to play this back again. He's going to say for two years he didn't prophesy anything publicly. He stopped for a season, for two years. Again, not permanently because of the heat of the moment. And while denying the accusations. This is called damage control. This is called cover up culture. This is called dodging accountability. And Chris seemed okay with that Washington
- [156:00]
Mike Winger
Post and all these different places and all these rumors came and it was really easy to believe the worst about people. For two years I didn't prophesy anything publicly. That was a big word for politics or a big word for the corporate church. I stayed real quiet. I just, I was like, I want to just really see God. And part of it was because I had warfare of some movements I love who accused me of things that weren't true. And I wanted to rebalance. I was like, there's a demand put on the prophetic gifts and some of the offices of prophet like mine that was wrong. It was a wrong demand. That was. And I wanted to realign myself to God and then be able to realign myself after that to speak to churches and movements in the right way.
- [156:38]
Narrator/Commentator
I want to throw up when I hear him say stuff like this. It's ridiculous. It was the wrong demand that was placed. Dude, you created the super profit expectation and then you failed. And then you're like, you guys expected too much of me. What you want is no accountability. You want to be the super profit. And this is at least how it all looks to me. This is at my best understanding. Everything I share with you is my best understanding of things that I think they need to be known. So yeah, he goes on, he couches it like a spiritual warfare and bad expectations. And he's got two cheerleaders here, these guys who I hope that God opens their eyes and they realize that their sincere love for God is being manipulated by guys like Sean Bowles.
- [157:22]
Mike Winger
And during that time I stayed really connected to people like Bill Johnson, still connected to him. So really, really connected to TBN and our TBN family. Matt and Lori Crouch stayed really connected to of course, Bob and Lauren Hassan, who you guys know really well. And I realigned and I reshaped with,
- [157:39]
Narrator/Commentator
okay, Bob and Lauren Hasson. So Bob Hasson is on Sean's board. I think he's still on the board. He was on the board when my witness reached out and talked to every board member he could, past and present board members, and asked them to hold Sean accountable and be aware of what was going on. And ultimately, Sean was not held accountable. And the conversations went something along the lines of, tell us what you know. What names do you know? What names do you know? And they wouldn't give him information. And it ended up being like, what is really going on here? So that's how it was reported to me. And I entirely believe that's true, because I have things I can't tell you about that I know, but. But yeah. So Sean Foyt was on his board. He was made aware of these things. Now at some point, he's got off his board, reportedly. But this is weird. The timing's weird, because at one point he claims, basically there's filings, legal filings that show Sean was on the board at a point at which he had told someone he wasn't. But then I think Sean has deceived or misled people quite a bit about a lot of things, so I'm not surprised. But Sean Foyt told the witness, I don't know what you're. I didn't know about that stuff. I didn't know about that. I was unaware of that. Yet Chris Valatin's message was going to be, I talked to the board members and I asked them to pull them out, and they don't want to do it. I don't know why. So both those things can't be true. What is the truth? I don't know. I don't know. Was Chris posturing to make himself look good so that he was off the hook? This person wasn't upset with him, or was it true? And Chris is upset because he's like, why don't you guys pull him out? You should pull him out. I don't know. It's very difficult to know, because once the trust is damaged, all you have is putting together the pieces and trying to figure out what really happened.
- [159:29]
Mike Winger
God, what the prophetic's supposed to look like in my life after what we experienced, which was a major attack, the worst attack of my life against my reputation, against. So I do think that this was a huge, coordinated Jezebel attack the entire time. That was the worst I've ever seen in history.
- [159:45]
Narrator/Commentator
Now, when he says a huge, coordinated Jezebel attack, he means the attack against him. And also, because of the context of the clip, make sure you understand this. Also, the attack against all of the Other prophetic people, right, who were a lot of fake prophecies, stuff going on there. He says during this time, clearly said I stayed connected close with Bill Johnson and close with Matt and Lori Crouch, enclosed with. And he names some names, Bob Hasson. And it is, in fact, in 2023, when Bill Johnson went and endorsed him personally, his character and his book again, even after knowing that a lot of the stories that he writes about in here are things that would have either not happened or happened from digging up people's data on the Internet and then pretending like he had prophecy. Here's another piece from his book, by the way, that I thought was pretty interesting, where he says that Paul Kane was a personal friend of mine. He was a personal friend of yours and a mentor to me. As you're walking in his footsteps, his disgusting footsteps. We're going to learn more about that today as well. So the things that Chris said were simply not true and simply not good enough.
- [160:59]
Mike Winger
Right.
- [160:59]
Narrator/Commentator
Because Sean affected so many people. Take a look at how many people he affected in his own words.
- [161:05]
Mike Winger
My friends and family, I've traveled around the world, so I've been everywhere from all over Asia, Thailand, Cambodia and Indonesia and Korea and Singapore and Malaysia and all these kinds of places. China. But I've also been throughout Africa, throughout South America. You have to realize, when I used to be on the road, so if I traveled 70 times a year, I would have, you know, seven to 20 prophetic words for individuals, whether it's a leadership team, behind the scenes, whether it's people, ministry. Plus, I'd have church words or local words or church words. So when you count those up, it's hundreds, if not thousands of words a year I was giving, and now I don't have all that, which is great. So I have more consistent time where I just have my relational network. And so praying and content will give me words to connect to. And I don't strive for that, but I want to be deliberate because I see what the prophetic does in calling us forward.
- [161:58]
Narrator/Commentator
He isn't doing. That's great. He says he knows it's not great. He liked it better when he could do all. He could be more public. But there's too much accountability now, right? He's got to, like, still lay low. He does plan on ramping back up, it seems, from the way he talks about these things, but he's still giving private words to people. I still have my relational network. Now, what kind of relational network does a guy like Sean Bowles have? Well, it will probably include Money, money, money donors. People with a lot of money. And Shawn has special words of knowledge for them. I'm going to talk about a couple who Shaun gave a special word of knowledge to, special insight from the Holy Spirit, supposedly, and then was trying to get their money, money, money. And they are helping us blow the whistle on not only Sean, but others in the movement, too, that we're doing the same thing to them. So at least that's how I interpret it. You can interpret it yourself. I'll just share with you what I know. What is the rest of this? Let's see.
- [162:51]
Mike Winger
It calls us to action. It calls us higher. So my friendship world, I want to call them higher. Every year I pray for my whole friendship circle that I feel signed to pray for prophetically. But at the same time, it gives me more room now because now I'm in media. So that's why we're releasing the prophetic word or perspective with each show, because I feel like it helps people to wrap their faith around something prophetically. And sometimes they get more specific words and sometimes they get more generic words.
- [163:18]
Narrator/Commentator
Yeah, he is a rambler, this guy. So Sean is still. He still has prophecy as a key part of his ministry. And if you go to his YouTube channel, I did this, and you look at his videos, his best performing videos, there's some outliers. But in general, his better performing videos are going to be ones where it says something about prophecy. He has a prophetic word about this, A prophetic word about this. And then the ones where he's just bringing a teaching or a lecture of some kind, the views tend to be pretty low. They're not very good. So Sean is still engaging in a prophetic ministry. He's still probably fundraising through the use of his supposed prophetic gift. And the warning still needs to go out because guys like this will lay low and then they'll just do it again. I know that sounds crazy, but that's exactly what these guys have done in the past. They just lay low and then they keep going. They just lay a little bit lower and they keep going. Mike Bickle, right now, even after being exposed for having, what is it, 17 victims, is just going to try to keep going. He's kicking back up. His sister had a special word of prophecy. God is restoring him. And Bob Jones, he continued after he perversely fake prophesied to two women so that he could. I'm going to give the details here. Skip it if you don't want to hear it. So that he could get them to Take their clothes off. And for them to receive a special anointing from God, he had to place his mouth upon where you think their top. And as a nursing anointing anyway, he did this right. He was busted for it in the early 90s and still in the 2000s, Bethel has him at their church guiding people in trips to heaven which were clearly fake. Clearly fake. The COVID up culture is insane and Sean is just laying low unless he gets really publicly exposed. And the leaders won't stand for it because I think only then do you really get the change, the transformation. But if you hold him accountable, does that mean they'll be held accountable too? Who knows how much is going on there. Back to that text message conversation. There's a lot more in here. It's very important for me to share with you guys in 2021. Chris continues and says, this is early 2020 21. At this point, others have called me and asked what I think and I told them the truth about Sean's antics. That is actually pretty key because I did a video with Elijah Stevens, who Sean lied to, fake, prophesied to Elijah, spent his much of his life savings on it. It damaged his marriage. It caused him serious PTSD when he started hearing whispers that seemed credible to him that Sean was actually fake and that the prophetic word that he gave Elijah based upon him knowing Elijah's like name and family members names and all this stuff that maybe that came from Facebook. When he started thinking that that really might have been fake, it freaked him out. And he reached out to Chris and he said, Chris, tell me, was it real? And Chris did not warn him. Right. He gave a vague kind of half answer. He didn't actually tell him the truth right here. He says others have called me and asked me what I think. I told them the truth about Sean's antics. He actually didn't do that with the one person I know who did call him and ask him what he thought. I didn't realize that Sean's books were still in her bookstore. He says, I will have them taken out of the store and off our site. I did have a conversation with him about four months ago and told him that he wasn't to ask any of our team to be on his podcast. This creates distance. It might feel like accountability to some, but ultimately it just creates distance. And then Sean is able to eventually continue doing his ministry at maybe a smaller level, but he can still victimize people and do all kinds of evil things. I told him that he needs to clean up his mess before he has a relationship with any of our people. People. I've also told our entire team that they are not to minister with Sean or have him in any of their ministries. I would have thought Elijah was a team member. We showed how he taught at some of your school stuff. But you didn't tell him. And even when he asked, he wasn't told. And Dan Fairley. Dan Fairley, pastor at Bethel, told Elijah he didn't know about Sean. He didn't really know what the truth was about Sean. But here Chris says he told the entire team. I mean, Dan Fairley's. There's top three guys at Bethel or four guys. Excuse me, at Bethel. You got Bill, you got Chris, you got Danny Silk, and you have Dan Fairley. Did Dan Fairley just lie? That's what it looks like. I've also had a conversation with Bethel Music leadership team and told them about Sean's situation. They've agreed to ban him from their ministry. And then he says, I heard Sean really isn't getting invited anywhere. And Sean has not been doing much public. Public speaking, that's for sure, because he's basically got leprosy. He's the leper. If you use him for something, you're going to have a bunch of people on your back. Social media is going to be all over it. And that's the real issue, is we don't want the mob. We don't want the social media. Let us do our thing. Stop trying to hold people accountable. But is Chris convinced that Sean is guilty? That's the big question. The very, very important question. Does Chris think Sean is guilty? Is he aware of enough information that he. He believes Sean is guilty? Well, he bans him from ministering in their church. He tells Bethel Music, don't do anything with them. He can't get involved until he repents and cleans up his mess. I could pull him out of my. I have no authority over him. It's clear that he believes that Sean is guilty. He's certainly treating him that way. And speaking of Elijah Stevens, after Sean gave the word that led Elijah down the path of spending most of his retirement on something because he believed God was calling him to do it. And then Bethel not help dropping, just basically going like this with Elijah afterwards. And I have a whole giant video with evidence and emails and texts and everything that Elijah pulled together for us to share. So I'll link that below. But after that happened, after this fake word came from the Bethel stage to Elijah that messed up his life. Five days later, Chris Valatin posted on social media. This is in 2015. It's about that long ago. Sean Bowles has the most powerful word of knowledge gift I have ever experienced. I thank God for the gifts he gives to his people. Couldn't you have just posted on Facebook, Chris, Sean Bowles has been faking his words of knowledge. I'm sorry that I fed you to him. You could have just said that, but you couldn't be bothered. Couldn't be bothered. All right, this is where Chris goes on. This stuff's all so important. This is going to validate a lot of the claims that I've been making, the things that I'm about to share with you now to help bring in more witnesses and more evidences. He says, I heard Sean's not getting invited places. He goes on. I think he's trying to survive by having people on his podcast. Several people have called me about being on his podcast and I've told him what I know. Again, Chris is the fountain of truth, apparently. Except he wasn't. To Elijah. Whenever I see someone on his podcast that I know, I text them and let them know what's going on. So I'm not doing nothing. I'm not saying he never did any of those things, but it certainly isn't the way it comes off. We also have talked to his board individually and together we've asked them to pull him out of ministry. At this point, they don't want to do that, which I think is a major mistake. Again, my guy who talked to several board members, one of them said, I didn't even know about this stuff. And he says he wasn't on the board. I don't know if that's really true because the IRS filings that he was. That's Sean Foyt.
- [170:40]
Mike Winger
So
- [170:42]
Narrator/Commentator
this is weird stuff, right? But you realize that there's these people who could make a difference, who simply won't. And that's what cover up culture does. Nobody pulls the trigger. They'll talk about it, they'll complain about it, they'll distance themselves, but they'll never pull the trigger and warn the actual victims, the future and potential and current victims of the person. Those are the people they won't warn. Chris went out of his way, according to him, to warn leaders, to warn the important people, but not the normal people. Not Jubilee, don't. Not Elijah Stevens, not the thousands and thousands and thousands of people that Sean had given words to, according to him. So again, he's talking about the board, Shaun's board. We've also talked to his board individually and together. We. Meaning what? Probably Bethel.
- [171:22]
Mike Winger
Right?
- [171:22]
Narrator/Commentator
Bethel's talked to them. We've asked them to pull him out of ministry. At this point, they don't want to do that, which I think is a major mistake, but they have official authority to remove him. I honestly don't understand why they don't. Danny laid out all the evidence, all the facts and evidence. There was a bunch of facts and evidence you had four years ago. Excuse me, over five years ago now, that you had at least five and a half years ago. Because that's when you were doing the confrontation. Minimally five and a half, closer to six. You had facts and evidence. You were asking to be removed from ministry, and you talked to other leaders about it. Here he goes on. He says, I talked to Chae Ahn, Ed Silvoso, John Arnott and the Bakers about Sean. They've all canceled them from their conferences. Ed Silvoso was doing a major event with Shawn in California, and he canceled him. Okay, but why didn't any of them warn? Because how do you discern the difference between people who are merely protecting themselves and those who are protecting their people? Well, you ask, did their actions result in the protection of individuals or just ministries? Then he says, my take is that God is going to deal with him. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. Finally, February 1, 2021, the witness is like, I guess that's all that's going to happen, right? So he says, I trust you, Chris, and I take you at your word. It's almost been a month, and the Bethel store still offers Sean's books. Chris says, I'll check. I just got off the phone with David Stein, who does all the Bethel Media stores. Evidently, I forgot to tell him, so he'll be pulling them down this week. Thanks for the reminder. It's been a very busy season with a thousand things to do every day. I understand, Chris. I have much grace. Thanks for letting me know. Did Chris think he was guilty? I'll come at him one in a second. Did Chris think he was guilty? Obviously, yes. You don't ask a guy to be pulled out of ministry. You don't talk to his board and request for them to remove him. You don't ban him from your events and tell all your team supposedly about what he's done unless you think he's guilty. And you don't say you can't come back unless you repent. Unless you think he actually has something to repent of. But we will find a Different story being told to the public when Chris is confronted on it later on. So here's their last conversation. My witness reaches out to Chris and says, hey, Chris, I just saw this weird thing where there was a trophy that Bethel had Bethel on it. And Bethel was giving him a trophy, like one of the school of ministries or something. And he was upset by this, and he was like, I thought you told your team about Sean. And yet someone's giving him this trophy that says Bethel on it and has Sean Bowles on it about, like, most prophetic. And so he reached out, and then Chris goes, this is some kind of misunderstanding. This is not a Bethel thing. This didn't happen at a Bethel school. I don't know what this is. And so the guy goes, okay, fine. I'm glad you cleared that up. I just. I thought that it was. It looked really bad in the picture. So I'm not saying that the picture was real. I don't. I don't know what it was. Right. It was something Sean posted on Instagram. Whether it was really Bethel or not Bethel, let's say it wasn't. Here's then the response where he says, thanks for clearing that up. And then Chris tells him, you need to get some help and move on with your life. I don't know what's going on with you, but it feels super unhealthy that you're taking the. Taking on the role of policing our movement and trying to warn everyone about Sean. It's time for you to move on. Please don't contact me anymore about Sean. I've given up trying to be his punisher. I'm moving on. Do you want someone to try to hold him more accountable than your do it yourself. So eventually he contacts me and I'm your huckleberry. I'll help you. I'll help you hold him accountable. Chris will help. Shout this from the rooftop. Me. Not just me, not remotely just me. Minor Prophets is the group that really helped blow the thing, like, wide open because they were people in the charismatic movement who you could tell were reluctantly sharing it out. But other people, like Matthew Hartke going public, that really helped as well. That made a big difference. And I'm just going to amplify what they've done. And I also have more witness testimony that I get to share than they were able to share. So Chris knows he's guilty. Right? That's a reasonable conclusion. He knows he's guilty. However, when this stuff finally goes public, now we're going to fast forward. We're going to fast forward and look at some stuff on Instagram. All right, so when this stuff finally goes public, let's go to the Instagram. We have this exchange. And this exchange is where Chris Valatin starts responding. In fact, it's a very rare moment where he's actually responding openly on Instagram. Comments to some stuff about Sean Bowles. So January 18th, approximately this conversation takes place in 2025. This is when it's just gotten blown up and people know about Sean. They have seen some of the screenshots of the text messages that I just showed you. They saw at least some of those that went public. I think that maybe I'm bringing new ones. I think that people haven't seen yet. So there's questions like, are those real text messages? Is this real? Is that a real witness? Is this true about Sean that you guys knew and you didn't tell people, like, what's going on? So here, Spencer Dalton, in all good Christian love, you can tell it really is. He tries to ask Chris about this. He says, chris, is there a reason you're continuing to not address the situation with Sean Bowles? Remember, Bethel was silent even after it went public. They were very, very slow to be speaking to it or the text messages. Honestly and respectfully asking. It would do a world of good to help the body of Christ process these extremely concerning allegations instead of leaving them to figure it out for themselves without guidance or even encouragement. Why remain silent when you have such a large voice? Blessings to you, brother. I agree. Just so you know, Chris is the guy who knows how to do prophecy well. He's the guy who believes according to himself in prophetic accountability and holding people accountable and doing it properly and creating the healthy. The right environment to create a healthy, prophetic, you know, experimentation. This is what Chris is known for anyways. He responds to Spencer Dalton and says, always more to the story than meets the eye. Wait, what? Didn't you just say, like, you asked his board to remove him and you thought they should and it was a mistake that they wouldn't? There's more. Well, of course there's more to his story, but what is the more? So Spencer Dalton replies, yes, I'm sure there is. Which is why we need men of truth to bring clarity and light to the situation. Just honestly asking questions and trying to get my heart around why no one is willing to publicly address this because none of the leaders did. And they knew. Oh, I'm going to show you that they knew. I have more evidence of that. It seems like a matter of Great importance to the church at large. Knowing what you know, do you believe it's best for the body if this remains unresolved? Publicly praying for all involved. All right, I think Spencer is coming at this in a great way. He's clearly looking optimistically for public movement in the right direction here. It's not just condemnation. He's trying to ask for help. Chris responds to him and let me see if I can boost this a bit. Chris responds, it says wisdom is not always played out in front of the crowd. The crowd demands to know every detail, but there are things that are not for the crowd. This would be a lot easier if you knew me. I believe you. Trust me. That's a weird answer, dude. Like, either you guys put this guy on stage and promoted him and endorsed him.
- [178:53]
Mike Winger
Right?
- [178:54]
Narrator/Commentator
Thoroughly. And he was fake and you should come out and tell everybody or not. And then why did Bill go and endorse the guy just recently on tbn? What is going on? What do you mean? Wisdom is not always played out in front of the crowd. Right now, folly is being played out in front of the crowd. This is weird. This is a really weird response. So Spencer responds, man, I love you, bro, but I just don't see the body of Christ as the crowd. I agree so much. And I don't see a sincere cry for clarity and truth as demanding every detail. Right? He's gaslighting them when he says that they're demanding every detail. I'm honestly at a loss for words. I believe it's essential for church leaders to earn the trust of the church by transparency and raw honesty. My generation is done with the two tier system of justice where public sin is covered up privately, where ministry abuse from the stage is dealt with in the back rooms. I agree 100%. Listen, if Shambhal's fake prophesied from a stage, then from an equally large stage or platform, it must be called out. That's just the appropriate response. I don't know you, but I love you rather. And I urge you to please consider for the sake of all those who've been impacted, influenced, harmed and affected by Sean. So by Sean, to please speak on this in the presence of every believer so that we as the church may find healing and restoration for the damage done. People were harmed in public. Let the healing be done in public. True that. True that. Very, very true. All right. Chris responds. Again, he says to Spencer, do you know for a fact Shawn did this? And this is the most egregious thing. Chris, I cannot believe you said this. There are only two options for what I'm about to read. One, a bunch more data came out that made you think Sean's really innocent. Or two, you are. You're doing a bad thing. I think it's number two. I'm going to give you conjecture. Guys, this is total conjecture. Maybe it's wrong. I don't think it is. I think that Bill Johnson was still wanting to be in Sean's corner, and Chris Valatin tried to fall in line so that privately he could chew him out all he wanted, but publicly they couldn't say anything. And so even now, this public thing he's trying to spin, he's trying to balance and get on the fence. So he says, do you know for sure for a fact that Sean did this? Are you 100% sure he's guilty? Actually, you only have to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. Have you seen the evidence? Well, no, Chris, because you have the evidence and you won't show it to people. You have a packet of information you've received. You've talked to witnesses. You have a recording of one of his victims. You're the one withholding the evidence. So when you ask the people, do you have the evidence that you wouldn't let them see? I tried to petition Bethel. If you want to say you're on the fence and you don't know if he's guilty or not, just release the packet of info you got back in 2017 with all the list of words and the things that were found on Facebook because it was all all right there. How about you just release it? If it's so uncertain and so in the air, just make it public, huh? Because all of his prophecies are public. No. So have you seen the evidence? No, Chris, he hasn't seen the evidence. He hasn't seen the evidence because you guys covered it up. Or are you listening to people on social media? I mean, Chris, you're on social media. Just so you know, right now, that's such a weird, passive aggressive statement to make. You're listening, people. Social media is a mixed bag. There's plenty of bad, there's plenty of good, but you can't just ignore people because they're on social media. Where does Sean focus his ministry on social media? Where do the majority of people who listen to Bethel listen to them on social media? Where does Chris impact the most people on a regular basis on social media? It's just so weird. As far as I know, it's alleged. That's a lie. I don't know. I Don't know what else to call this, except that is a bold faced lie from Chris Valatin in a very important issue. That is it appears to try to do some kind of damage control, play some weird game with the body of Christ. He says, as far as I know, it's alleged. And last I heard, Shawn hasn't admitted to anything. Actually, Shawn has denied it publicly and maybe more facts have come out. I haven't followed this situation for years. If he's guilty and refused to deal with it with his sin in private, yikes. It's a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. So sad. He used to be my friend. If he's guilty, if he refused to deal with his sin, what did Chris tell the actual victim, one of the victims of Sean? He was like, he's not going to clean up his mess. I'm sorry. We were going to try to bring restoration, but we have no authority over him. There's nothing else we can do. Anybody who asks us, we tell them the truth about Sean. This guy asked you, you lied. How many other times has this happened? He goes on and he says, thank you for caring so deeply. I care too. Somebody else says, exactly why so many of us are looking to you to enlighten us, right? Because he's seen the evidence and he says it right here. He goes, I saw the evidence. I spent days examining it. I talked to Sean for hours. Well, wait, so is it as far as you know, it's alleged or is it, I saw the evidence, is it, have you seen the evidence? Are you sure convinced? Or is it, I saw the evidence, I talked to Sean for hours. Or is it, I haven't followed this situation for years. I don't really know for sure what's going on with that stuff. Or is it like we talked to his board and we told them to remove him. You guys see what happens when people actually come forward and share the things that they know, the evidence that they actually have. You find out that this has been a house of cards for a long time. For a long time. Well, the conversation does continue on Instagram and I think Chris, he should stop using social media, to be honest. He should just have pre planned posts and not just share what he thinks because Chris just says stuff. I'm glad he did though. Spencer says, replying to someone else. Exactly. True Shepherds don't remain silent while wolves are in the midst of the flock. That's right. So if you have a cover up culture and you have leaders who refuse to call things out like that dad who wouldn't tell his daughter about Shawn, whereas while his family had been being tug of war because of a fake prophecy that Sean gave them. When you have things like this, you have to wonder, is there a lack of protective capacity that you have towards the people that trust you? And sadly, it is the case. Then there's one more response here from somebody else who says, hey, Chris. Basically, he says, chris, if it's the case that you examine the evidence and believe now that these are just allegations and nothing more, as seems to be from this comment thread, then why not just say so? In so many words, why not make a clear statement? There are screenshots of text messages with your name on them. If they aren't authentic, just say so. Just be like, hey, these screenshots that Mike Winger is just showing around, hey, these things aren't. They're not real. Those aren't real screenshots. Just tell us that if that's the case, Bethel gave Sean Bulls an international platform, and Bethel insists on being a ministry with international reach, a reach that includes Sean. If he was or is a fraud, this is just as much Bethel's responsibility. Don't unnecessarily leave people in confusion. The only response I have left from that, from Chris responding to what Spencer said earlier about true shepherds. He says, so Sean is a wolf and I'm not a true shepherd. Okay, Case closed. He's just being a punk now. He's just being a punk. Chris, you are exposed to now. I am shocked. I'm shocked. As far as you know, it's alleged. That is a lie. If something has come out, where's that evidence that, oh, no, it turns out it wasn't true. Turns out that all these victims and all these witnesses that we have access to that we know about, turns out it wasn't true. Well, then why don't you redeem the guy and come out publicly and tell him. You might think maybe more evidence did come out, Mike. I think that's plausible. You know, Chris may. Let's be gracious to him. He may have just found more evidence. After his initial interventions and after his final statements to the witness telling him, leave me alone, don't talk to me anymore about Sean. Between then and now, he came out with saw more evidence and changed his mind and was like, wow, I'm really on the fence now. Here's why I don't think that's true. Because he says in his conversation on Instagram, Let me put it back on your screen. You guys may have already picked up on this. I think it's very important. Earlier this year in January, he says, as far as I know, it's alleged. And last I heard, Sean hasn't admitted to anything. Maybe more facts have come out. I haven't followed the situation for years. Later, he goes on to say that he saw the evidence years ago and he talked with Sean and examined everything. So this means that the only way in which he could believe that it's alleged is if he believed it was alleged years ago when he was telling the actual victim, oh, I'm cutting Sean off and no one can work with him. And our whole team knows about it. And I'm answering anybody who asks me, and I'm warning people and telling people, don't go on his podcast. And I'm doing all this stuff. But publicly, that's not what he did. In other words, I don't trust a word of what he said to that person privately. Because if the public actions don't match the private conversations, they're meaningless. This is the key of COVID up culture. If the public actions do not match the private assurances, then those assurances don't mean anything. They don't mean anything. Okay, I forgot. I still had one more screenshot from that Instagram back and forth. And I don't know of any other back and forths Chris Valatin has had on this topic. It was actually a real gem that we found this one because it reveals the truth. Reveals the truth about the public versus private conversations. But here another person responds. Eric Austin says to Chris, oh, man, I've loved you for years and still do. But that response is really disappointing and troubling. With all the faulty leadership issues that are coming to light in the body in general right now. I mean, there was no problem with a public statement being made over Jason Westerfield's error. So why this? Jason Westerfield famously is the one person Bill Johnson actually rebuked from the pulpit. And then people think, oh, that's proof that Bill's willing to do that. I don't think he had a choice. I think he had to because of what Westerville was doing in their church to their own people. Bill had to speak to it because he was. It was. It was demonic. It was demonic. It was really sick. But that's the one time, the only time that I'm aware of or anybody I've talked to is aware of, where Bill actually called somebody out. But here's the thing. Their movement has been full of people. They should have called out for generations and its status quo is to never call out anybody. You can call out the underlings. You can call out the low people. You don't call out the leadership. You don't call out the movers and shakers. That's the thing. You don't call it Kenneth Copeland. You don't call out Benny Hinn. Certainly not. So Chris responds. Last response we have from him on Instagram. Lesson number one thing I learned years ago, you will never please the crowd. I never let the crowd tell me how to pastor people. Many people fail who aren't wolves, including Peter. This seems to be implying that Sean is not a wolf, Right? It seems to be making a case that Shawn's not a wolf. He's defending Sean now. That's what's happening. 3. If the accusations against Shaun are true, there are many more like him. We've caught three others and pulled them all out of the ministry. What? What if it's true? There's many more like it. Now. This is. This is. I talked to somebody who was in leadership in the charismatic church. In a church, you would know. And they told me that if they really did pull, because I told them, you guys need to pull the trigger on all the people you know that are faking. If there's people who have sin issues, you may be able to work with them. You may be able to help a pastor recover. If he's, like, teetering on the edge, he's, like half fallen or something, there's times where you recover and you don't go and blast that to everybody. But when the guy's persisting and he won't. And he won't change, and also when they're fraudulently preying upon the people of God with fake miracles and lying in God's name, there's no wiggle room on that. You have to go public on that. You have to warn. You don't have to warn the whole world. You have to warn everybody he's influencing, which might be the whole world, like, is with Sean, or it might be the local church. But they've caught three others, and there's a lot of them. And this is what the guy told me. He said, mike, if we did this, if we actually call this stuff out whenever we see it, it would be devastating. It would be a lot of people. I believe that. And this is here where Chris admits it, too. If the accusations against Shawn are true, there are many more like him. We've caught three others and pulled them all out of ministry. So they do sometimes pull People out of ministry and this makes them feel like they're doing good. Do they warn people about them? Is there accountability? I know of another person who was doing these same fake words of knowledge at Bethel and was busted for it and was caught for it. And there was no public statement made. Even though they were doing it. Using media and using Bethel resources to try to reach people. There was no accountability for it. Nobody knew why they got pulled out. They just got pulled out silently. Which sounds like self protection to me. I'll read on the rest of this message here from Chris. Unfortunately, social media has made it easy to embellish their ministries. So very sad. Thankfully one of them has repented and cleaned up his message. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't. I don't trust you, Chris. There are many other leaders who have major issues who are leading. What do you mean by major issues? Bethel has become a place for them to come and get well and whole. Most of them reemerge healthy noble leaders. We've got to talk about that for a second. That claim. Bethel is known as a place where fallen ministers go and they get reinstated. They get restored. They're known to be that place. Todd Bentley went to Bethel to get reinstated after he was incredibly, horribly evil. Like, look it up, Google Todd Bentley and anything else and you're going to find it. They're known for restoring people. They brought Bob Jones back into ministry stuff, right? They're known for this. But I don't trust them and I don't think you should trust them either. He says most of them reemerge healthy noble leaders. But the example of say Bob Hartley is not that. It's that he's just continued his predations and he kind of went quiet for a while and he started getting more integrated. I have a video on Bob Hartley, I just did and Bethel and how that they did not handle that properly. And it was finally Bob's son who went public and another woman who tried to get Bethel to go public. They tried to get Bethel to go public. They wouldn't. So they finally went public to warn people about Bob because he would fake prophecy and use it to. To get women into the bedroom and more and worse stuff. Do most of them. Do most of them emerge healthy leaders? Do we believe that? I don't believe that. I wonder now. Some of them do. And I don't want to. Here's the thing, I don't want to make this video and have you guys thinking everybody who has ever been restored through Bethel, it wasn't real. That Is not the case. All it means is I can't take Bethel's word for it. That's all it means. I can't just take their word for it. I need to assess it through other means, to be thoughtful and careful and make sure that everybody is being taken care of and protected properly. That's what we need to do. So Chris, we see from his pejorative use of the term the crowd, when he has people begging him to be a spiritual father and take care of things, we know that he doesn't like warning the crowd. So I'm going to tell you now about. I'm going to call them Bob and Sally. Okay, here's a new section of the video. The Bob and Sally saga. Bob and Sally were a couple that was very well off and they had the beginnings of this business that was skyrocketing, like, you know, crazy, crazy money. That that was the direction that it was heading. That is very attractive to the prophet crowd. Not all of them. There are some people who are prophetic, who are godly and humble and Christ loving and sincere. And I think that God works in their lives.
- [194:45]
Mike Winger
So.
- [194:46]
Narrator/Commentator
But I'm talking about Mike Bickle and Sean Bowles and Emma Stark and Stacy Campbell and those guys, they love the rich, big money bags guys that they can prophesy to sincere Christians who love Jesus and just happen to have a load of cash, all of a sudden you get special words of knowledge for those people. These are what I would consider Sean's special friends who he still gives words to. I'll bet you he's looking their data up, giving them a special word. The lord show me something blue. Something blue. And you were trying to dodge it, but you couldn't. Oh, you bought a new blue Dodge.
- [195:21]
Mike Winger
Oh, I don't know.
- [195:21]
Narrator/Commentator
How did I know this? The Lord is it that. And you know, God's called me to expand my ministry. I need $60 million. Yeah, special words of prophecy for the rich people. That's what you get. Now, these guys are rich. Bob and Sally, they're in the rich category at the time. So Mike Bickle, Sean Bowles, Emma Stark and Stacey Campbell are all courting them. That's how I understand from based on their story. Now, I've met with them, I've talked with them a couple times, multiple times, and here's the story they tell. According to them, Mike Bickle wanted to build another wing onto his Wagner School. This is before Bickle was exposed. And so he wanted them to move to Kansas City. He wants them to move in with him. Bob and Sally, come here. This is the place, I believe God is calling you. And they spent three days with Bickle. Bickle. How often does Mike Bickle spend three days with anybody? Well, they were the money bags. They get the special treatment. Three days with just them. Hours and hours of time with Mike. He walks them through the whole prophetic history of the International House of Prayer, Kansas City. And it's hours and hours of a lot of made up stuff. And he tells them they're generals. You're generals in our story. You're part of this story too. You're generals. And he had them send bios of their kids over to Mike so he could learn all about their kids and get connected to them regularly. And he was texting with all of them. And they called him Uncle Mike. His kids called him Uncle Mike. There. At the end of the three days they spent together, Mike gave them a special prophetic word. He prophesied that they would make billions of dollars, which did not come to pass. That they would be massive business leaders, which has not come to pass. And that they gave a significant amount of money to Mike Bickle because that's what you're supposed to do. It feels like the right thing. And the way he talks and the stories he tells and you feel like you're a general and this is how I serve. Until they gave him significant amount of money, Cheon also was courting them. It seems Che on wanted them to move to HROC in Pasadena. That's his church. Pasadena, not too far from me. I should go say hi to Che. So he wanted them to move to hroc. Emma Stark wanted them to move to where she lives. And Sean Bowles wanted them to move where he lives in California. He gave them a prophetic word of knowledge when they first met that they now believe was just. He googled their last name and saw it on Wikipedia. So he gave. I have the recording of this prophetic word. I've heard the recording. And it was just what it was, the information from Wikipedia. They weren't even sure what it meant when it was given. They just kind of nodded and were like, oh. And then when they looked it up later, they were like, dude, that's just what Wikipedia says. And he confirmed before he gave him the word, he goes, is this how you spell your last name? And they go, yes. And he goes, oh. And then he gives them the word. Because he was probably trying to make sure that he looked up the right last name, that the spelling was accurate, because he doesn't want another 105 slaughterhouse to happen to him. Stacy Campbell also wanted them to move out to where she is in Santa Clarita to her healing rooms. There was a prophetic tug of war over these rich people. And I think that rich people experience this a lot in these movements. And of course you do. Of course there's, you know, when you have a lot of money, people will be interested in you because of your money. It's like with online, you have a lot of followers. People are interested in you because of your followers, not because of any other reason. It's weird. It creates weird, unreal social relationships sometimes. And I don't like any of that stuff. But when you add the prophetic element to it and you add, oh, I'm giving you a special word of prophecy and God's calling you to do this, it becomes a highly manipulated spiritual abuse of rich people from these leaders. And that is what I believe happened. This is an audio recording, though I'm going to share with you now. Never before heard. Nobody's heard this, really, not publicly. This audio recording is that rich couple. There's a prophetic tug of war going on and Stacy Campbell is in the car with them and she is going to warn them about Sean Bowles because what, Sean wants them to move out to him. Stacy wants them to move out to her. Everybody wants them to move. They're the popular kids right now. So Bob and Sally are very popular now. She gives them a warning. Now, this is very important. This comes from 2022, September or October. Keep in mind that Bethel has postured as though these things may or may not really be true. Who knows for sure? Only the Lord knows. This is what behind the scenes, they knew. They knew very well what was true. So listen to this warning from Stacy Campbell and she tells you a whole bunch of stuff and I'll let it play. I may pause it here and there. We'll see.
- [199:33]
Stacey Campbell
Is utterly and totally dangerous because he doesn't tell the truth. Oh, so this is from Chris Vallett, who I know because an issue came up from one of Sean Boltz's, from Sean Bol's that was very alarming. And finally he couldn't take it. So he told Patricia King, who told Che and who told Chris Valentin and. I and Chris Valatin, because Bethel was very involved with Shawn Holtz, because everybody is believing for this greater works than Jesus has done, type of prophetic that is in the Bible. And pulling out these things.
- [200:35]
Narrator/Commentator
This is what I talk about revival culture. I could use a more Technical term and call it this, the Latter Rain movement, or the belief that there is going to be this incredible spiritual transformation. You guys have to understand this context to get the full meaning of what you just heard. There's going to be this amazing Pentecost 2.0. That's what Brian Simmons calls it, Pentecost 2.0. We're going to do greater works than Jesus. We're going to do greater works than even the apostles. It'll be what the church was always meant to be. This is what Bethel's always marching towards. So when you have this need and you've been preaching this to your people and you get a faker like Sean, he's extremely useful in stirring up your crowd and getting people to flock to your church. They're going to move to your fellowship because this is the hot spot where it's happening. So that sets the stage for why he was so important, why they were so hopeful about Sean, why they were so ready to receive and promote him. Because they have an unbiblical expectation, prophetically, about the future of the Christian church that leaves them open, and they teach this to their people, leaves them more open to frauds, spiritual frauds. I hope that that makes sense. I do believe that that's very important to understand. All right, let's go back to the recording. The bottom line so far is everybody knew. Everybody knew. Patricia King, that recording I told you about, guess what? It was real. A separate witness came to me and gave me this completely independently, where they're admitting it. Patricia King knew. Cheon knew. Chris Valatin knew. Guess what? This was not secret. Well, it was secret to us, not to the elites.
- [202:00]
Stacey Campbell
We're in that era where I think it's going to start, but there's always a burnt earth prior to. And so. So on Monday, she's looking through her
- [202:15]
Narrator/Commentator
phone, I believe, here, looking for specific messages so she could read them out loud between her and Chris.
- [202:20]
Stacey Campbell
August 22nd. I reached out to Chris because I know. So Chris. Chris. So Sean Boltz, who traveled with Sean
- [202:30]
Narrator/Commentator
Boltz,
- [202:33]
Stacey Campbell
told these gross stories of sexual immorality of Sean Boltz. And that when he traveled with Sean Boltz, Sean Boltz would.
- [202:51]
Narrator/Commentator
Yeah, you're going to hear it very clearly here. I'm not going to censor out what she's about to say. So now what you're going to hear from Stacey Campbell, she's alleging these things are true. And I think that when you combine this together with all the other evidence we've seen, it really raises the credibility of all of it. All of it being true. Right. There's what you don't hear from any of the leaders or the text messages or the conversations. Is anybody saying that Sean's actually innocent? No. What you see is them responding as though they believed it was real. I'm not going to censor this. I'm just going to play it as is. There's going to be some descriptive stuff in here a little bit, so you guys should be aware.
- [203:28]
Stacey Campbell
Masturbate in front of him. It made him very uncomfortable. And walk naked in front of him.
- [203:40]
Narrator/Commentator
Yeah.
- [203:41]
Stacey Campbell
Not wear clothes. And he's a guy. And so finally he couldn't take it. And he went and told other leaders because he didn't know what to do. And Patricia reached out and told, you know, tried to talk to Sean. Sean would not talk to her. So she talked to Che. And Che said. Because Sean said, I'm un. Under Che's leadership, so don't talk to Chris. Because they were having him irregularly. And Sean said to Chris and Bill, I'm not under Bethel. I'm under Che. And Shay tried to talk to him, and it didn't go.
- [204:25]
Narrator/Commentator
So I said, okay, here's the back and forth, as I understand it, from talking to witnesses apart from this recording, was that the initial thing was Patricia thought, yeah, Che's going to do this. He'll take care of it. And according to Stacey Campbell, Sean says, I'm under him. That's who I'm under. And it didn't go. I don't know what that means. Then Che says, you should have Chris do. And I'm actually going to share with you guys a screenshot. I'll just share it now. Screenshot from Patricia King emailing one of the victims. And she says, On April 7th of 2020, I'm so sorry to hear about this. I'm not sure I can help any more than I have. This is when Bethel's currently investigating Sean and stuff. He says, Chris told me that there are guys working with Sean. I think he mentioned Danny Silk and one other, maybe Bob Hassell, which I think she means Bob Hasson, who's on Sean's board and co authored a book with him. Should you try to communicate directly with Chris, sharing your disappointment, which ultimately he did. From what I understand, Sean has not offered you an apology. So if this is being dealt with, I believe that would be a first step for Sean's turnaround. That might be a place where you could start. She's giving him advice, but he's looking for someone to Be a voice. I honestly don't know what else I can do. Right. You make a video and you say, hey guys, here's what I found out. And then you add your credibility and the strength of your testimony to these people who are ultimately relatively powerless in your movement. You said, I recorded your story and submitted it to Che, who told me to connect with Chris. I CC Che into my emails to and from Chris. Chris said he had guys assigned. I'm deeply saddened in the private conversation. It's very much like I care about you. I'm concerned about you. I want you to do well in the public actual things. Nobody, nobody publicly called him out. So it's not as though there was like a callous. I don't care about what you're going through. That wasn't said. It was just cover up culture prevents them from taking any actual actions to be a voice for the victims. That's the problem. It keeps them from speaking aloud to the people who they assisted in deceiving so that they might come out of those deceptions because that would hurt the prophetic movement worldwide, supposedly. Okay, so she goes on. She reached out Monday, August 22, reached
- [206:51]
Stacey Campbell
out on Monday, August 22. So this was over a year ago. I've known this maybe two. And I said, has there been? And so Chris Valentin flew. So I know this from Chris's direct mouth. He said, I flew to Schonbolt's on my own dime and I spent the entire day Saint Sean. And Sean denied everything and basically tried to make the other guy a liar, but the other guy was so broken. And to have a Christian leader masturbating in the same room as you and walking naked, you know, I mean, that is while you're in the room with him. So on August 22, I reached out to Chris and said as has there been any restoration with Shawn Moltz? Because Chris, their great desire is always to restore fallen ministers.
- [207:46]
Narrator/Commentator
Again, that great desire it has frequently, or at least in my opinion, a number of times, turned into re enabling abusers. So this desire, the Bethel has to restore fallen leaders, which itself is a good desire. It doesn't play out without cover up culture. That's the problem. Let me get smaller, chwink. All right.
- [208:12]
Stacey Campbell
And it's part of the mystery of Shiloh that when they fall and Sean was directly under Paul Kane, who also was accused of homosexual acts. And the heating rooms took. Took him in and put somebody on him day and night.
- [208:33]
Narrator/Commentator
Paul Kane was accused of specifically targeting his employees with homosexual behaviors. Think about that.
- [208:44]
Stacey Campbell
So that he could not sin again. Because once a person has been abused by a person in authority that they look up to, they're devastated for the rest of their life. I like. It is like, like a parent, a terror. And so Chris response. You can read this from Chris, but this is just the text. I will then send you the email. Hi, Chris, has there been any restoration with Sean Goldson? This is definitely not Sean. I said, okay, thank you so much. I appreciate you responding because I know that Sean is now being asked by Georgian, etc, But Chris said, Sean Blake never come to Bethel again because of his lack of humility and repentance.
- [209:27]
Narrator/Commentator
Chris also said, as far as I know, it's alleged. So this Georgian Banov guy, this is a guy that invited Sean to speak. This is after these things were known and everybody in their circles, their leadership circles, they're all like, telling each other about it, you know, And Chris is supposedly warning a lot of people. Georgian Banov was scheduling Sean to still speak at this prophetic training event. I'll share more about in a minute.
- [209:51]
Stacey Campbell
And then this is the next one from his email. So I sent him an email because I didn't know if he got my. Shambles. And my question was. So Julie said, Okay. Julie asked me because she sent me the email where Georgian was having Sean Voltz come to a conference. And she said, has there been any.
- [210:34]
Narrator/Commentator
This is the conference. Per their website, Sean did end up speaking at this Georgian banoff conference in March and April of 2023. It was several weeks long, along with Stacy Campbell and many others. Heidi Baker, James Gaul, Barbie Breathitt. Right now, I'm not saying all these guys knew about Shaw. Certainly some of them did. Certainly some of them did. Certainly Stacey Campbell did. She went and did the same conference. The same conference that she's like, oh, Georgian's still going to have him. Sean Bowles is dangerous. She's warning the rich people because she wants. Just wants their wallets, I think. And yet there is no warning that goes out to the rest of the people at that conference. Like, they're not that important.
- [211:21]
Stacey Campbell
Insane restoration was Sean. And I said, let me check with Chris. And okay, certainly working. Hi, Chris. Why is this? Normally it works. Chris. Hi, Chris. I was wondering if there's been any updates. With Sean Boltz. And anyway, I'm having a little difficulty downloading it. There's only one bar, but essentially. And I can let you read them all. He said, no. He said, but definitely not Sean. He said, as far as I'm concerned, Sean Boltz is a deceiver and I will not have him back or I'm trusting him. And so I'm concerned because I love you. I'm giving you the warning that he's dangerous, his behavior is bad, he's been caught red handed and he's unrepentant.
- [212:42]
Narrator/Commentator
So I gotta remind you guys, this is September or October of 2022. It was less than a year later. It was like March or something maybe of 2023 when Bill Johnson went and endorsed Sean's book. And Sean on. But you wrote that this was one of the most exciting books that you had read. Why was that?
- [213:03]
Mike Winger
Well, the book by itself is incredible. Knowing the life that backs it up adds a power to it because it's so. It's so practical. It's what you dream of. It's like if you could see, if you could have a perfect relationship with the Lord and see its impact on humanity, that's what it would look like.
- [213:22]
Narrator/Commentator
Chris says he's a deceiver. I will not allow him to minister here publicly. Says as far as I know, it's alleged Bill goes and endorses him, but they distance themselves, their ministries are separate. So what does this look like? Cover up culture, I'm afraid.
- [213:38]
Stacey Campbell
And this was August 22nd, so this is new, it's not old, recent. And I know you're calling to invest in the prophetic and you're amazing, but I'm just asking you to pray about your part. Thank you. And in that, because he's. To me, he's not only dangerous for the body of Christ, that a lot of times the people that affiliate with him go down, when they go down.
- [214:08]
Mike Winger
Aha.
- [214:10]
Narrator/Commentator
He's dangerous to the body of Christ, but we're not warning them. But you, we don't want you to affiliate with him. So you're part of the inner circle because of your wallet. So you. I love you. I want to protect you. I care about. You're the special ones. But like Elijah Stevens, he wasn't a special one, right? To me he is, but he wasn't to the Lord he is, but he wasn't to the leadership at Bethel, but Jubilee dawn, who experienced great harm because of Sean. Connected to Sean for sure. Not special enough, not important enough. I love you. I want to protect you. So I'm warning you about Sean only counts to the elite because that's the culture of COVID up. It's a caste system. Okay, in this next clip, Stacey talks about a document allegedly showing Sean Bull's faked prophecy by data Mining Facebook and Google. This is a document we have not seen that has not been released publicly. I've asked for it. They spread it around to each other. They just wouldn't show you.
- [215:13]
Stacey Campbell
Document by a guy. Didn't feel good. So what he did was he noted the names of every person Sean woods was prophesying over and then went on their Facebook page. And every single bit of information Sean prophesied, you could find it on page two. If you just go, you can find the whole thing. And there was nothing that Sean was prophesying on his Bible. That was. That was from unknown revelation. It was only on. And so he sent me a document probably 20 pages long. This is what Sean said. This is on the front page of their Facebook pages. This is on the second page. If you Google the person that is their son that you find it. You know, I mean, it just. It was all there and it was highly incriminating. Court of law. And he was also. Also tried to confront him and just Sean made him.
- [216:23]
Narrator/Commentator
They knew that there was a guy who tried to confront Sean years ago and that Sean made that guy into the bad guy. And none of these people were helping and defending him. I think they might be talking about Jason Smedley. I'll be sharing a tweet. He replied to me recently on Twitter. I had been wanting to talk to him for a long time. I'll be sharing something. He said this guy tried to expose Sean and Paul Kane came after him and made him the bad guy. Right. He suffered greatly because of this stuff. He says he's convinced that the leaders all knew Sean was speaking for a long time and they just didn't care. That makes a lot of sense to me. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. So she might be talking about him. I don't know. But it makes a lot of sense.
- [217:07]
Stacey Campbell
And when a bully does that, pushes off their salmon. That's the grossest to me because you get a chance to fall on the rock or the rock falls on you. So my trust level with shotguns is very. Because opportunities.
- [217:45]
Narrator/Commentator
You might be interested to know that Stacy Campbell talked a lot of dirt about a lot of different leaders with this couple. She seems to have something on everybody, But that's the Sean Bulls information. What she didn't tell the couple was that she was going to be attending the Dream Interpretation and Seer Realm masterclass with Sean Bowles and Georgina Banov not too long after she had this conversation. So there she is. We've got Sean there. You've got Stacy Campbell there. You've got Tommy Ariomi there, some of you might know that name. James Gaul there, and Georgian Banov, Heidi Baker. How deep does it go is the question. I don't know. I don't know. But I know that the trust should be broken when it comes to this sphere of leaders. You should not trust their discernment and you cannot shop your discernment out to them. And you don't want to follow their culture because it's a culture of COVID up. After this, after this is when Bill Johnson went on TBN and endorsed Sean Bowles. After all of this, knowing the life
- [218:55]
Mike Winger
that backs it up adds a power to it.
- [218:57]
Narrator/Commentator
Why wasn't Sean Bowles exposed? Because none of the leaders that the people were asking for help would help. They wouldn't have stopped these people from going public. Most likely they wouldn't have tried to stop them. But they don't want to be part of it. They're not going to be connected to it and they're not going to help them do it. And they won't provide them with the safety and covering that they will need. Because guess what happens when you go public like someone already tried. As Stacey Campbell said, Sean Bowles makes them the bad guy, makes them the villain. Because Sean obviously has much more weight even now, has much more weight in these circles than some random person who's trying to blow the whistle on him. You need the leaders to lay their life down to protect the sheep. That's just what's required. So Cheon backed off, Chris backed off, Patricia King backed off. It's ultimately, there's nothing they can do. They're powerless, supposedly. Now, I've talked to the sources, several different sources, a number of different people, and they all seem to agree. Pretty much all the ones I've asked about it agree on one idea, and that is the idea that it was ultimately Bill Johnson that stopped Shambles from being exposed. That it was not something built wanted to happen. And remember that Bill is the one who openly endorsed him after the fact. So let me say this next thing very carefully. I'll read this out to you. I believe that the problem is way bigger than what we know. That if any one of these leaders just came out and exposed the fakers and abusers that they know about, there would be so many, it would be devastating. And that's why they won't. So why wasn't Sean exposed? Why didn't they warn everyone? Why only warn the rich people and the leaders and then distance yourselves and not tell the public? You know Bethel talked to some of the same witnesses I have that they interviewed, some of the same people that I've talked to that they knew this stuff. It's crazy. So what does it mean when you distance yourself but you don't warn the people? It means you're not protecting the sheep. It means you might be concerned about your own protection and reputation. It means you might be worried about logical outcomes, that if we have the kind of culture that calls this guy out, who else are they going to call out? And am I going to get called out? And that's a scary thing. But that's what First Timothy 5, 1920 says. That's my theme verse for this series of exposure and cover up culture stuff is it says rebuke in the presence of all that the rest also may fear. Yeah, I'm worried about if I hold others accountable, people might hold me accountable. But I'm supposed to be worried about that. Like I should live with that fear because there is accountability in the body of Christ for us. Now we need to talk about the trigger video. First I need to take a little break. I've been talking too much. This is the second day I have tried to spend recording this. The first day all the footage didn't work and had a glitch. Let's talk about the trigger video. The trigger video was December of 2023. This is a video created by Sean Bowles where he goes onto TBN and on YouTube and wherever else he puts his stuff and he's going to tell other people how they can deal with leaders who abuse them. This triggered people who he had abused in the past or hurt in the past, and they decided to make more noise. Okay. This triggered another round of people asking for bulls to be held accountable. And this was December of 20, 20, 23 when this happened. So it's a disturbingly ironic video. I'm going to play several clips from it. Sean has deleted it from the Internet, but the Internet never forgets. So here it is.
- [222:17]
Mike Winger
Very interesting subject, a prophetic perspective and a teaching that I think is going to really help you. Especially if you've been one of those who's experienced the moral failure of a pastor or a person who should have had spiritual authority over you. God's been judging the churches and pastoral failures and ministries and there's a lot of collapsing right now. And I can make a list of names of people who have had a ministry or personal failure that were public figures in the church over the past few years and it'd be a very
- [222:40]
Narrator/Commentator
long video It'd be a very long video. It's implied. I think he means a list of people who've failed and fallen because there is more accountability now than there ever has been. Sean, in this video, you can already see it. He speaks as though he's, like, squeaky clean, or at least clean of the types of things that he's dealing with here. And I'm telling you, if there was ever a moment when Sean Bowles was able to actually prophesy something, it was here. And it was unintentional. The stuff that he says in this video, it's eerie and ironic and disturbingly ironic where he counsels people on how to deal with leaders who have abused them. And imagine yourself as you watch the rest of this with me, imagine if Sean had done a prophetic grift on you. He looked you up online, he prophesied to you, and then he gave you instructions that changed your life in ways that were not always good. And then you find out it was a lie, it was deception, it was manipulation. It was the worst kind of blasphemy. Imagine that you were one of his employees who he sexually harassed and dominated in disgusting ways that took you a long time to recover, that you had to get counseling, and it was really rough. And then he makes this video.
- [223:57]
Mike Winger
Never seen so many ministries that have senior leaders or someone within their senior team in a prominent position go through such public moral failures and disgrace. There's so many victims that have been left out, just out in the cold because of this. There hasn't been a good process. And a lot of these places are institutions to help victims or families of the victims. But God is judging the. The church. He's actually judging the church where he's exposing things that need to be corrected because he's a good father. And a good father wouldn't leave their children in a place where they're being abused. A good father wouldn't leave his children in a place where things don't have justice.
- [224:30]
Narrator/Commentator
Or do you see the cry like it's crazy ironic. Talk about being able to present this video in a new context. See, one of the requirements for fair use for me to be able to play someone's video is. It's transformative. Well, this is transformative, man, because this is commentary on you. And you didn't see it that way. You didn't know it that way, but this is eerie. God's judging the church. There's a lot of accountability. God's dealing with people. Yes. Yes, he is. And you're one of them. That's the thing, Sean. You're one of them. But when your victims saw this, and when the people you hurt saw this, they couldn't stand it. And they went from being quiet and hoping the leaders would deal with it, and the leaders who distanced themselves and protected themselves and didn't protect the people. When those leaders did that and the people remained quiet, they saw this video on that. That's it. That's it. We need to go public. We need to talk to somebody. We need to make more noise. This was Sean digging his own grave.
- [225:24]
Mike Winger
Consequences. But then there's people who've been walking with God, and they know that their no should be no. They know their yes should be yes. And yet they choose something like an affair to embezzle money, to use their position of spirit, spiritual authority, wrongly. And God judges this. And when God judges this, he exposes it and he takes away spiritual authority.
- [225:45]
Narrator/Commentator
Yes. Which is why you need to quit your ministry and stop making prophetic. This is so ironic. It's a prophetic video. I'm gonna give you a prophetic perspective on uncovering the sin in the church and abusive leaders and stuff and dealing with that. It's insane that he's doing this while talking about this, and he actually allows
- [226:02]
Mike Winger
the person who's doing it to go through a season of misery. I think I look at it sometimes as like a spiritual jail, but I'm taking my grace off your life in the season because you are not partnering to me. And now you've violated people around you. It turns into these dark spaces get darker and corrupted, and then bad behaviors that are immoral and illegal happen.
- [226:21]
Narrator/Commentator
And now he's going to say, even in this video, he's like, I'm not. I mean, I haven't done anything. I've made mistakes, but I've never done, like, illegal or whatever. He distances himself from this, which infuriates, of course, the sexual harassment from his employees. That's illegal, dude. That's definitely illegal.
- [226:37]
Mike Winger
Again, that's why I think God has to ultimately expose these things. He will not let his people be subject to this evil forever. Like, at some point he's going to expose people who do this. And I used to deal with a lot of pastors who were going through moral failures and going through things, and then also the victims of those situations. What one of the common grounds that I saw was.
- [226:56]
Narrator/Commentator
So he's presenting himself as somebody who's been in a lot of these scenarios, and he's dealt also with the victims of these Scenarios. Do you believe that? Isn't this the guy that sicced Paul Kane on the guy that was trying to expose him for his fraudulent ministry?
- [227:12]
Mike Winger
That they had an issue where they couldn't be vulnerable with their sin. And so then it just kept compounding and compounding. And then once they've committed enough sin, how do they share? Because they've not tracked with anybody for now, years. How do they blow this up without it becoming a bomb? And their whole family and their whole church and so it's better to hide. This is not the way of the kingdom. This is not how God works. And I've had a behavior I've had to repent of and confess my sins of. Anybody has anybody, especially in leadership positions. There's times when you did something too long. I'm not saying I did anything. I can go to jail for whatever. But there's times you did something too long that you shouldn't have done. Any pastor has done that, any leaders and that.
- [227:49]
Narrator/Commentator
So he only has done common leader mistakes. That's. That's what he wants to make sure is clear in this video. I've done things I had to repent of, but only like normal leadership kind of mistakes and problems. Dude, there ain't nothing normal about the stuff you've done. There's nothing normal about that stuff. You see why this was the trigger video, why this caused people to call up Bethel again. Another round of calling up people.
- [228:10]
Mike Winger
Maybe It's a Matthew 18. Somebody comes in, confronts you and you don't respond to that confrontation. And it ends up being something that's publicized. You never really change in your heart. There is a final condemnation where you're turning your back on Jesus. You're turning your back on the core principles of truth. And that's a scary place to be. Especially if our disobedience is causing others to sin or others to be oppressed. God will expose that somehow.
- [228:34]
Narrator/Commentator
His most prophetic moment, Sean unintentionally declaring what was going to happen to him.
- [228:43]
Mike Winger
Our life will not go well. I do want to tell you that we have in our ministry, we have a lot of resources and materials. I have books that have become bestsellers on hearing God's voice. And even for children, we have a prophetic parenting kit coming up. But something got disappointed in you because of a man. Because of.
- [228:58]
Narrator/Commentator
I just wanted to include the advertisement in there, just to have a prophetic parenting book. Everything's prophetic with Sean, right? Because he's the prophet. He's the golden boy prophet of the next Revelation of God's incredible power in the church. Right. The Pentecost 2.0. And so everything's prophetic, prophetic update, prophetic news, commentary, prophetic parenting. And so he plugs that, and he's selling his book as well. In this video, a woman because of
- [229:20]
Mike Winger
a pastor, because of a leader. And I feel like God wants to heal the disappointment in humanity and he wants to reappoint our faith in him. So my prophetic word is everything in leadership that can be shaken is getting shaken. And we're watching it right in front of us now.
- [229:34]
Narrator/Commentator
It was already happening. Like, this is a something that everybody knew was already going on as far as it shaking goes. But this was the trigger video. Okay? This was December of 2023. December of 2023, which led to another round of. In particular, one of my witnesses reaching out, a different one than before than who was texting with Chris, Right. Reaching out to Bethel and going, there needs to be accountability. There needs to be something. Something needs to be done. So here's some of the things that happened. This witness, he met with Bill Johnson personally. Bill was incredibly loving and incredibly kind, according to him. And it felt nice to meet with him. They spoke without identifying Sean by name and just said that he'd been hurt by leaders. What a surreal environment where you're sitting there with Bill and you don't. For some reason, socially, it's just. It doesn't. His name doesn't even come up. His name doesn't even come up. What is that? How do you not. How do you not address his. What is this Bill? What is this thing you're doing? Bill Johnson. His name doesn't even come up. Why? Is it because you wanted to separate him from this guy? Let's just. Let me see if I can just massage this guy, make him feel better, and then he can go away. Because our private conversations. I can say anything I want publicly. I won't actually call this guy out. So it was a nice private conversation. They spoke without identifying Sean and just said that my witness had been hurt by leaders. Bill prayed for him, and Bill repented on behalf of leaders in general. With this individual. There was no public accountability. That was in 2023. That was right after this. Then on January 10, in 2025, something happened that changed things again. And that thing is the Minor Prophets. The Minor Prophets. That's the name of a YouTube channel. They're not saying that they're prophets. The Miner Prophets YouTube channel. They came out and they made a video called, well, the Thumbnail Says everyone knows Sean Bowles faked it and no one will talk about it. And this is the first credible within the charismatic community exposure that happened with Sean that I'm aware of, that I would say this was the one that, like, tipped it over. This caused Bethel alumni to start saying, what is up. People who'd been to their School of Supernatural Ministry, they're reaching out. They're asking for people to comment on this. People are calling for Bethel to comment. The reaction was huge. This was the first major charismatic exposure of Sean. The thumbnail says what it says, right? And they suffered great reputation damage. The guys that did this. They suffered. So they had a voice. They actually have some platforms. They're actually in ministry positions. But they also suffered because they called out Sean, because the other leaders wouldn't call him out. So, anyway, that's how it always is. Then Bethel, a month later, comes out with a statement, and we're going to read that statement. Bethel's February 2025 statement comes out, and I'm going to pull it up here now for the first time, for the first time, people have the whole background, the whole backstory. You know, the conversations with Chris, you know, what was said behind the scenes by Stacey Campbell, you know, all of these things. So now when I read this statement, you will understand why it was not very good. Okay? This was Bethel's statement on Sean Bowles to alumni. They only gave the statement out to alumni. It was not sent to the world. It was just sent to. To people who had attended their school. February 3rd statement. Dear alumni, we know this feels very late for some of you. Sorry this has taken so long. We're aware that a conversation is happening regarding Sean Bowles and our confrontations with him that took place more than five years ago. Right. Because minor prophets showed some of the evidence I've shown. They didn't have all of it, but they showed some of it. We have delayed in an effort to reflect our recollection accurately, as the issues are important and complete, complex. Right. Sham Bowles had ministered with us many times for many years and had a great impact on our house. If it was fake, it wasn't great. We deeply valued and trusted him and appreciated his prophetic gift. Many of us have received important, accurate prophecies and words of knowledge from him prior to social media being so pervasive that we had great confidence in. Bill says that he would replay prophecies from Sean on his cell phone. And I have video of Sean doing his grift on Bill Johnson. I'll Share that later. This video is going to be so long. In 2019, some significant concerns came to us from respected international leaders regarding irregularities in Sean's word of knowledge gift. 2019. You guys knew in 2015 and 2016 and 2017, and you're simply not acknowledging why. Oh, it wasn't a respected international leader. It was just normal folks trying to raise the alarm. And they don't count, I guess. Who knows what the reason is? But they knew before that they knew. For all I know, they knew in 2008, for all I knew, that they knew about all this stuff all along and they know that there's fakery. For all I know, the gold dust is something that they intentionally, knowingly put into their air ducts or wherever just so that they could get all the people to come out to Bethel where they could get their special anointings. In 2019, some significant concerns came to us from respected international leaders regarding irregularities in Sean's word of knowledge gift that caused them to wonder if he may have been using social media to generate them. We believe that these concerns and the evidence to support them were gathered and shared in good faith and out of concern for the global church. Who cares how they were gathered? What if they were gathered by, like, evil atheists who just hate you guys? The question is whether they're true or not. That's the question. The good faith thing is like, let's stop analyzing all the witnesses. Maybe they've got ulterior motives. Okay, we should know that. But that doesn't mean that what they've said isn't true. Their presentation of over a dozen words amongst the hundreds he's given was a small sample size, but regardless, was validly concerning and needed to be addressed. For some of our team, for some of our team, the evidence felt conclusive, but for others, it was not. We did not have a consensus, but we were very concerned and sought to clarify from him who didn't think it was true, because I understand, hypothetically, that Danny Silk, in the confrontation, looked at Sean and said, you're a liar. In that very conversation, Chris says, I don't trust him. He's a deceiver. I won't let him minister. He's not welcome at Bethel. But here we have, for some of our team, this is what the public does not get. The truth. The public gets the massaged PR read by a lawyer. First message for some of our team, no consensus. Two of our leaders met with Sean on two separate occasions about this. Chris flew down from his meeting with Shawn at Bill Johnson's request. Our leaders also met with Sean's board and shared the evidence and our concerns. Actually, according to Chris, your leaders said you guys should pull Sean out of ministry. He's guilty. I don't know why you guys aren't doing it. That's what Chris said to one of the victims. Was that true each time? Sean absolutely denied using any social media in his words of knowledge or prophecies. Sean still maintains he never used social media in any words. And truthfully, unless something changes, only he and the Lord really know what took place. That's not what you said in private. This is deceptive, is it not? Am I not right in believing that this is an intentional deception to the body of Christ from Bethel Church regarding prophecy, regarding their leadership, regarding how they've handled situations behind the scenes, cover up culture. We ended up in a stalemate without a satisfactory resolution of our concerns, without definitive proof, repentance and or team consensus. We made no public statement because we weren't sure. I thought that Chris said he warned all the leaders that he told all the people who asked him about Shawn's antics and that Shawn wouldn't repent and it was shameful. This is going to get worse. Let's keep reading. This actually gets worse. The leaders who previously investigated and gathered the evidence were of course free to do what they thought best going forward. Is that even true? Really? Were they free? I think that they would have known. Here's my conjecture. I admit this is conjecture. I think they would have known. If we publicly call out Sean, Bill Johnson is not going to be happy. And you, you do not want an angry Bill at you. He will passive aggressive you and you will disappear from your effective ministry will just be shrunk. That is what my conjecture is. I do think it's likely around the same time one of Sean's employees made allegations concerning inappropriate behavior and unacceptable work environment. Inappropriate behavior and an unacceptable work environment. Does that sound like what he was alleging? That is so softened. And it is not just one of Shawn's employees. There are multiple. There are a number of them. And they could have had many, many of them to interview and discuss with if they had bothered even trying. But they didn't. They didn't. Though Sean was not and is not under our authority, one of our leaders found another impacted former team member went to Sean and confronted him on those issues over several difficult conversations and admonished him that. That this behavior was completely unacceptable and that he should take responsibility. He indicated to us that the behaviors that had taken place had stopped. Right, right. That's going to go in the letter. Hey, guys. Sean says he stopped the vague behaviors of an unacceptable work environment and inappropriate behavior. Now, in the initial release of this letter, this letter, Bethel had. They sent it over to some of the guys, some of Sean's former employees, and they saw this and they were really bothered in the vague, vague language that they used to discuss what shambles did with them. And so they were like, you need to call this sexual harassment. You can't just say it was unacceptable work environment or inappropriate behavior. You need to use the phrase sexual harassment. So here was Bethel's next draft and the one that went public. It said, though we are not experts, these behaviors seemed to fit the descriptions of sexual harassment and a hostile work environment as commonly taught in HR training and had potential legal ramifications. It's a technicality here. It seems to appear, possibly could be. But he indicated to us that they've stopped. But this is shameful. This was included at their request. That's what I was told. And the statement was, if you don't call it sexual harassment, we're going to take our group of people and we're going to go public. Bethel, we're going to go public. You know what Bethel should have done with those groups? They should have said, let's help you go public. Let's help you tell the truth about what happened. Instead, they did this sick little cover up culture thing. This is currently on their website even now. We recommended they take action in seeking a remedy through the justice system such as the labor board, arbiters or courts, as there was no real movement from Shaun to address the past situations and we had done what we could given the limited level of knowledge that we had at the time. That's deceptive. We spoke to his board regarding this area of concern. Spoke to his board. You claim that you asked the board, Krista, we implying that Bethel asked the board to take Sean out of ministry and then when he wouldn't do it, you didn't warn people. Romans 13 teaches us that God has placed civil leaders in place as ministers of God for the kinds of issues his former team members brought to us. Now, the reason they're including this, I think is because in the leaked text messages, Chris counsels him, maybe you should sue him. If he hadn't said that in the text, I don't think they would have included this in the letter here. So he's trying to explain, like, why would you say sue Sean? Now here they're trying to make it sound like, no, no, no. Romans 13. This is just about civil leaders and da, da, da. So I think it's about that. Furthermore, their experience was absolutely important and personal and as such was their story to tell, not ours, and to take action if they desired. This is a cowardly thing to say. They came to you guys for help. You should have helped them tell their story. You should have put out a warning, as you were requested to in the text message conversation by one of the victims who was like, can you guys just put out a statement? Can Bethel just put out a warning? Can you guys please tell the story? They asked you to help them tell their story, and you're like, no, no, no. It's only for you to tell. Only for you. Meaning no one's going to help you. This is the general context to which Chris was speaking in the text messages that were posted on social media. Media. Did you hear that? This is Bethel confirming that those are real text messages. Those are real. And they're confirming it here. I don't know if they realized this was what was going to happen with that. They've confirmed now that that text conversation was legit, which means that what that guy that sent them to me was real, and he sent me even more than the stuff that they'd seen. This is all real corroborating evidence. Sean was a trusted guest minister who spoke often on our platform. If Sean were worked for us or was truly or officially under our covering, the situation would have been handled much differently. This phrase, if Sean worked for us or was truly or officially under our covering, this like idea of a spiritual covering. Sean referred to them at points as their mother church. Sean called him his spiritual son, or, excuse me, Bill called him his spiritual son, reportedly. And you know, it was Bill who put him on stage and he said, sean is one of our most spiritual trusted friends. They introduced him as one of the most prophetic people on the planet. You have covered him. Now you need to uncover him. That's how this works. We would have not just appealed to Sean if they felt a responsibility, which they did not. We would not just have appealed to Shawn. We would have required comprehensive and righteous response, whether related or not. Shortly after we addressed our concerns, it appeared that Shawn took steps vagary to adjust how he operated in words of knowledge. He just recently spoke to some of the changes he's made, which can be found on his website here. This is Bethel doing damage control for Sean Bowles. We're going to read it. We're going to read it. Okay. This is What Sean Bowles actually says in his statement that will supposedly talk about, according to Bethel. It's very important we pay attention to the details. This describes how he took steps to adjust how he operated in words of knowledge. And he just spoke about that here. So here's Sean's website. We're going to read some sections from it. Statement of community of commitment to prophetic integrity. Promoting healthy prophetic ministry. Ask yourself if this is Sean admitting anything, changing anything, altering anything as a ministry. We would never condone and we would refute that we would ever find information online to prophesy over people. Because this has happened historically with a few individuals. There is suspicion that has been created and we have been accused of this several times, specifically from 2016 to 2019. What is this? This is Sean acknowledging that the allegations go back at least as far as 2016, that the allegations go back at least that far. Again, confirming pieces of evidence. Notice that Sean says we when he's talking about Sean. Sean is the only guy they're talking about. Wee, wee, wee, wee. No, it's just you, Sean. He goes on. When we were traveling full time and modeling and teaching the body of Christ how to pursue the spiritual gift of the words of words of knowledge, which hasn't had a lot of teaching around it up until this current generation, he's bragging. He's actually bragging about his special unique ministry that is like, you know, something new. He's bringing you to the new level spiritually practicing points of our prophetic standards. Okay, so this is their standards again. Notice he confesses nothing, but he words very carefully. This letter that Bethel actually encouraged people to read put in their letter. Here we go. A little bigger for you guys. Yeah. All right. Notice what he says. In 2019, there were a lot of questions about words of knowledge and the theology of the prophetic being directed at our ministry. These were important questions specifically around words of knowledge, as well as some asking what are the boundaries of making prophetic predictions over relationships or finances. Right. Because people made investment choices. Elijah lost most of his retirement because of Sean. I've talked to three different people who entered into marriages because Sean told them to said it was God. Because of these, we really wanted to define what we felt like would be the most healthy version of good boundaries and also clearly take a stand for what is a good word of knowledge. We decided, we, meaning Sean, to change some of the ways that I minister publicly, as well as how our teams that we have sent out would minister to create safety and health. Okay, so here is A change that he made. He denies everything, but he changed anyways. Why? Because he's guilty. We as a ministry fight for the gifts of the Holy Spirit and their purpose in the body of Christ, especially in the prophetic as part of what we think brings a well balanced Christian life. We made several changes in our ministry team back in 2019 and my own personal public platform to help flow in the word of knowledge gifting without having as much room for criticism and doubt. Again, not changing because of guilt, change because of criticism and doubt. This was about reputation control. That's it. So they're talking about accusations and they're saying, you know, Sean took steps to adjust how he operates in word of knowledge. The implications implication is he's taking steps because he's done something wrong. He's fixing it. He's not fixing anything. We want to share some of these commitments and protocols our ministry adopted to help others who want to help share the genuine prophetic gifts. So here we are. Instead of I repent, here's what I did wrong. It's allow us to teach you guys how to live your life better with prophecy, the very thing that he abuses. Here are some of the standards we set in our ministry when it comes to practicing prophetic gifts so you can see what is important to our ministry and hopefully it can help inform your own approach if you're new to this or help sharpen you if you're unfamiliar with practicing the prophetic. We are consistently adjusting our ministry protocols to keep the people we are called to minister to safe as well as the people who practice it. Most of these protocols were already being practiced, but we reinforced them and have held the line for years. Okay, so he's godly, he's righteous. He's actually the example for others to follow. That's his statement. Words of knowledge. We will not share any information that is obvious as a word of knowledge, meaning it can be found online like birthdays, anniversaries, people's names, addresses in our prophetic words. Ask God for what First Corinthians 14 says is the secrets of the heart. In this way people can have confidence that if a word comes, it came from God. Oh, so he's not going to do. What was the entire center point of his entire ministry? What was the foundation of his book? What was the reason he became the wonder child, the reason why his ministry took off, why people were seeking him out, why he was the most prophetic person, the most accurate words of knowledge I've ever seen. That's what Chris Valatin had said about him. And he goes about this policy. He says, most of these protocols were already being practiced. We've reinforced them and held the line for years. We will not share words of knowledge about someone's pain, relational issues, or anything negative publicly. Actually, you talked about people losing their children. You talked about people losing their family members, losing a mother. You used people's pain and loss to make yourself look like a prophet, Shaun. And you're saying, we will not. You know, he never says we never have. They have. He says they've held most of these all along. Not true. This is what Bethel has pointed people to. This is why people are upset that even when they brought out this thing where they're like, well, they kind of brought a statement out, Mike. This is why the people who know what's going on are like, this is actually very bad, guys. It's actually very bad. It's easy to go to a place of inner. It's easy to go to a place of inner healing or what is wrong. But if you're going to share these things in front of their family or friends, it can put them in a bad light or cause misunderstanding. We will not share words of knowledge about resources or finances publicly. Publicly, because Sean still does this. Finances and resources publicly, probably to people he sees as much money bags because it puts pressure on exposing someone's condition to people who aren't involved. People who have money can be pursued wrongly. You're very familiar with that. People who don't have it can become shamed. Prophecy. We will not share prophetic words publicly that are about judgment or correction. That's an unbiblical rule, actually, you shouldn't have that rule. We will not prophesy about romantic relationships with people who are not married. Oh, I wonder why you're not going to do that anymore. Jubilee dawn is the reason why. Because she went public and told everybody what you did to her. Shameful man. You won't even repent. You won't even repent of it. We will not prophesy about business deals or contracts with specific groups or people, or that finances or resources are supposed to be given away that are not yours. We will also not prophesy about business partnerships with specific people together, or that someone will be working with someone else by name because it can cause confusion and manipulation. I remember the rich couple telling me about how this was happening to them from you and others in your circle. We will not prophesy over people struggling with infertility by promising they will get pregnant. We will not prophesy conditional words. Unless you do this, this will not happen. No words with ultimatums, Okay? I mean, God prophesies with conditional words all the time, so I don't know what that's about. Discernment. We will not share negative things we have discerned publicly about individuals or other believers. We will not share public discernment over individuals about the demonic. Really? Do you guys remember the video where he says that the attacks on him was the biggest coordinated Jezebel spirit he's ever seen? What is that? That's his discernment about all the people, like the bloggers, the people who made videos they were attacking. That was the coordinated Jezebel spirit. That's what that was. That was him doing the very thing he says that they won't do. How long is this statement? I don't. I don't think I can even even read this whole thing. This is super annoying. Sean Bowles. You guys can look at it yourself. Go to his webpage. Currently, it's. It's on the front pages page. You can find it easily. So we won't post. Oh, this one I gotta read. We will not post Internet videos or social media videos of our own prophecy over others. Guess what? Because it's just getting him in trouble. As soon as he posts a video, we're like, google, Google. Oh, look, there's them. There's their dog. There's their. There's their. Their mom. And we find out the information was all readily available. He got busted. That's why if they want to post it, let them. But it's their story, not ours. Unless they specifically give us permission. Remember, in the social media age, people who were against this kind of ministry may track them down and harass them. We are seeing such an increased harassment of people who share their testimonies of our prophetic ministry that for their sake, we took them down so they can tell their own stories about us. Oh, my goodness. Now, I would never harass anybody who was targeted and manipulated and deceived and abused by Sean. But it's crazy. He's using them as a shield. He's adding insult to their injury, and he's using them as a shield now. All right, that's. Here he says something personally. I'll just read this last part. We have never had to correct our team in a big way for violating any of these standards because they are relational guards to keep everyone, everyone safe. Feel free to adopt them in your ministry team. Although I, Sean Bowles, do not do a lot of traveling ministry anymore. And Our focus has turned to media entertainment. I still want to help support the prophetic ministry and movement and steward my relationships that have been for over 30 years in this ministry in the healthiest way possible. This is our commitment as a ministry to you and to the body of Christ. So Sean's commitment to them ultimately boils down to, I'm innocent and I won't do it anymore, so please leave me alone. Is that how you read it? That's how I read it, and that's how it came off in Chris's text conversation with one of the witnesses was like, hey, he won't clean up his mess. He won't admit it, he's guilty, but he's going to stop prophesying, right? He's going to quit doing a lot of these things. All he did, I believe, was move it to the private realm. No more videos, no more public analysis. Privately, I'll do all my stuff, but publicly I'll only do these prophetic generic words and things that are harder to test. And so that's what he's done, because he's going to get a. Gonna do the shtick as much as he can, because the only time he gets views is when he does prophecy stuff for the most part. Let's read the rest of the letter from Bethel. In the absence of clarity about both what really happened and some of the words of knowledge, and having addressed the issues with his former team members and found his response lacking, we made the decision to step back from our ministry connection. This meant one, and here's where I believe they deceive people even more. We did not have him ministering to our people or movement or have his materials in our stores, though we missed some things until recently. Remember the text messages like, dude, his books are still in your stores. So if Sean gives a word of knowledge to people at Bethel and they carry that word and they live their life based upon that word, is he not actively ministering to your people in your movement unless you do something to undo it? They didn't do anything, though. Number two, we communicated our concern confusion and his denials to the leaders. Confusion? Wait, confusion? Did you tell the leaders you were confused or that Sean was guilty? Because Chris made it sound like you told him he was guilty, but you don't want to admit he's guilty now. Maybe because of Bill Johnson. And Bill Johnson's like, no, you got to be nice to Sean. So the letter has to be written this way. This doesn't look like what happened. Stacey Campbell says it, dude, Chris mail I don't trust him. No, I won't have anything to do with him. You didn't just communicate concern and confusion and his denials to the leaders who initially raised concerns about the words of knowledge with us as well as to leaders closely connected to Sean and made the evidence of available to them for them to make their own decision. You know, a leader, A leader that was closely connected to Sean is Elijah Stevens who said, hey, I heard Sean was faking these things. You guys haven't told me anything about this. Is it true? And Dan Fairleigh. I don't know anything about it. And then Chris doesn't tell him. He doesn't tell him. He didn't give him the evidence. He didn't make it available to him. This was all right. Number three, we firmly admonish and warned him and he responded by making some changes in both of these areas. What does that even mean, some changes? He just went underground with it. Guys. We made it a clear goal or we made it clear that global leaders were concerned and watching closely. This cloak and dagger stuff. What happened was global leaders just backed off of Shan because he's now leprous and there's people in the wings that might have any point expose him or Mike Winger might make a video about it and use their testimonies. And so we don't want to be around him because then we're going to get drug into it. Well, it's too late. You are drugged into it. These were all clear boundaries that produce some of the necessary changes. What does that even mean? 1 Timothy 5:20. And are they necessary changes? If you don't know if he's even guilty or not, how are they? This makes no sense. Are they necessary changes? But if he isn't guilty, they're not necessary. You should be defending him first. Timothy 5:20. Ah. This is the theme verse for this whole thing. It says to publicly rebuke elders who continue in sin. We weren't entirely clear what was happening in the words of knowledge and unaware of the scope of his issues with his former team members, but believed he changed his behavior. Wait, what? We don't even know if he did anything, but he changed. Was this schizophrenic? How is this written? And the work environment going forward after our confrontation? So we didn't, did not make a public statement. In the past we've only brought public admonition to those outside of our organization. In cases where no acknowledgement and change has taken place after correction, there was no real acknowledgement and there was no Proper change. Okay, yes, it was some change. He's going to be not invited to our conferences anymore. There's a change. Sean just kept going, though. Later on, he eventually stops doing some of the videos and some of the stuff publicly. But, no, don't call that change. That's not fair. We empathize. We empathize with those who are confused and disappointed over the situation. I'm not confused. I am disappointed. We feel the same. You cannot put yourself in that role. This is a tender, confusing and complex situation. As it stands, our trust in Sean is still unrepaired. Why is it unrepaired if you don't know if he's guilty or not? Having privately admonished him, this letter is only intended to clarify the journey we are on. Why did you admonish him privately, according to this letter? According to what Chris told others, reportedly? We know what you admonished him about. It was, you need to repent. You're messed up. You're a liar, you're deceiving people, and you can't have anything to do with this. But privately, according to this letter, the admonishment would be something like, hey, man, if you're guilty, you should probably do something about it. So this letter is only intended to clarify the journey we were on and the steps we've taken. Given that it is now a wider conversation. Right. So confirmation that this letter is sent out as a. As a. I will call it a damage control method. Because it's all public now. Because people know. Because text messages privately given were sent out to. To the public. And people are like, you guys did what? What was going on behind the scenes? We receive and value the feedback that our actions may have been too subtle and difficult to decipher. I don't think they realized how annoying it would be for people to read this document. It feels very much gaslighty. And that it would have been more helpful to at least openly acknowledge that we were creating distance with Shawn due to our concerns. We acknowledge we have more to learn in handling situations outside of our staff environment with greater clarity and have been working for the last several months on standardized procedures for hearing and responding to concerns in order to create an even healthier church culture. I don't trust that words of knowledge are a significant and important element of conveying the heart of God. Demanding high levels of integrity, accountability and responsibility. And our work environments and team relationships must be for of holiness, respect, appropriate behavior and safety such that they reflect the joy and glory of God. We pray that the Holy Spirit Brings wisdom, humility, comfort, and instruction to each of us. Signed Bethel Leadership. They don't believe in the accountability and responsibility or the integrity part. I don't think you guys believe in that. I don't believe you do. This came off to many people as very much damage control. A lot of the alumni, I understand, were pretty upset with it. Certainly Sean's victims were upset. Certainly people like Jubilee, dawn, or Elijah were certainly upset. This is deceptive, even about Elijah. Really, really bad stuff. And again, the witnesses said, if you don't put. They had the word harassment in there. They said, if you don't call it sexual harassment, we're going to go public. And then they put it in there with all the technicalities and caveats. So Bethel knew, he knew, they knew. And it's confirmed now through lots of different evidence. They knew about the sexual allegations against sean in late 2021 and into early 2022, for sure. They knew about it by then. Danny reached out to one of my witnesses who confirmed it. So there was multiple witnesses, as they mentioned in this letter. They confirmed that that is, in fact, true. Chris then confronted Sean in 2021, and that's when everybody started canceling Sean. Right? When you have these people on the wings who were like, guys, can you go public? Patricia King, can you go public? Chaon, can you go public? Can you guys please go public? So now there's this threat of things going public, and that is when supposedly all this stuff really, really went down. But there's Jason Smedley now. Jason experienced some of this stuff himself. Let me bring it up. He says the following. This is actually in a post that just recently was made where Jason says he responded to me on Twitter, and I was very glad he did, because I'd heard from other people about Jason and that Jason had. In 2015, he started to record Sean's words because he suspected that he was getting him off social media. And then 2016, he's doing this more. He's starting to tell more and more people about it. And that is after that is when Paul Kane comes after him. And here he talks about it. He says, I was at Bethel back when they first gave Sean a platform, and I'm 100% convinced they intentionally promoted him, knowing full well he was a false prophet. My experience confronting this situation led to a nervous breakdown. Paul Kane came after me. The whole thing was crazy. And Jason certainly has a story to tell. This video is too long, so I'm not going to try and do all that. But I will say I'VE been connected with him a little bit on social media. We've been talking a bit, and I do believe him. I heard about him months and months ago, and I was so glad that he actually spoke out. There's emails and evidence that he has as well, that maybe at some point will go public. That's up to Jason. If he wants to do that. No pressure on you, man. You can just go on, live your life if you want. But I think enough has come out that people can't hide it anymore. They understand that the Bethel statement was garbage, that Sean's statement was deceitful and manipulative and not real. So here's my conjecture. I think Bethel is simply okay with a certain amount of faking, of prophecy and of healings. I just. I really believe this. I'm convinced of it. They just are okay with it. They don't mind. They don't mind at all. And that is systemic in the charismatic movement amongst the people that are especially connected to Bethel. When you look at people like Jesus image, and you look at people like Morningstar and ihop, there's just a willingness to be okay. I talked to John o', hall, who was a former leader, part of ihop, and he told me that it was standard practice among the Kansas City prophets. These are like the foundation guys for Morningstar and Bethel and ihop, that the standard practice for these guys was that it was okay to be wrong 70% of the time. It was simply no big deal. This causes abuses. They see it as Hamburger Helper. I did my interview with Jedediah Hartley where he talks about his dad, who was Bob Hartley, who was part of Bethel and part of ihop, and how he not only was faking prophecy on the regular, but that everyone does it and it's okay. It's Hamburger Helper is the phrase he used.
- [264:22]
Mike Winger
And the theory was that my dad was 90% prophetic, and then 20 or
- [264:27]
Narrator/Commentator
10% was this hamburger Helper. That's what they used to call it, Hamburger Helper.
- [264:35]
Mike Winger
That was a term Bob Jones used, Mike Bickle used. Other individuals used to talk about the sort of adding a little flavor to the meat to make it a more complete meal. That was the idea. And so my dad would.
- [264:51]
Narrator/Commentator
It didn't take me. It took me until I was, like, in my mid-20s, before I grew, like, enough awareness to realize, no, the whole thing is fraudulent. It's not 90% God and 10% man. Just the whole thing is a gimmick.
- [265:09]
Mike Winger
And be like, just because everyone is
- [265:12]
Narrator/Commentator
doing this in the Community doesn't mean
- [265:13]
Mike Winger
that it's okay or it's right. The defense of this sort of prophetic
- [265:20]
Narrator/Commentator
fraud, for lack of a better word, was that everyone did it. So his mentors, Paul Kane and Bob
- [265:32]
Mike Winger
Jones, who were huge figures in the sort of prophetic movement, would do things like this. They would get information from non divine means, and then they would pretend like
- [265:46]
Narrator/Commentator
it was from God.
- [265:47]
Mike Winger
This was before the age of Facebook. But specifically, Paul Kane had a genealogy
- [265:53]
Narrator/Commentator
program that he had installed on his
- [265:56]
Mike Winger
computer that he would look up people's genealogy. And so he would have specific prophecies
- [266:03]
Narrator/Commentator
about grandfathers and lines. Like, if you just had the name,
- [266:08]
Mike Winger
you could kind of find very specific information. So one of the defenses that my dad gave was that everyone does it.
- [266:16]
Narrator/Commentator
It.
- [266:17]
Mike Winger
The second was this Hamburger Helper defense, which was not to totally defend it, but it was to contextualize it. The idea was that it's not good, we shouldn't do it, but everyone does it a little bit. It's okay. It's just this idea of like, the meat is still God. Most of it is still God, but then we'll add some extra fabrication just to add a little sizzle. Prophecy is hard. It makes it more palatable for people. So when you're caught with it, it's like, you're right, I should stop doing it. But it's not like this invalidates my entire ministry. This is some huge thing.
- [266:59]
Narrator/Commentator
It's kind of like, you know, getting
- [267:03]
Mike Winger
caught speeding or something like that. It's like, we shouldn't do it, but it's understandable and it makes sense. And Mike Bickle and Bob Jones would talk about it in the same way
- [267:14]
Narrator/Commentator
behind closed doors, in front of.
- [267:17]
Mike Winger
In front of camera. Like, Mike talked about it, and he
- [267:21]
Narrator/Commentator
used it in a slightly more. In a slightly different sense to be
- [267:25]
Mike Winger
like, there's a lot of fakers out there. But I don't pay attention to the fakers. I just pay attention to the people who are genuine.
- [267:32]
Narrator/Commentator
But that's not how it was used.
- [267:33]
Mike Winger
It was.
- [267:33]
Narrator/Commentator
Everyone has a little of a fake, and everyone has, because I know that. I know the value of genuine manifestations that are real. Again, I've seen. And I've had it happen to me, but I've seen people thrashed around and I've seen people thrown against walls and across rooms and. And I've seen a lot of fake, but I've seen a lot of real. The real is worth it. I will allow the fake. I don't want the fake on the platform because I I don't want to promote the fake, but I'll allow the fake in the room because I so believe in the genuine. I've had people say that over the years, you know, they said, you know, you know, I've had students, you know, some of this seems fake. I go, it is. They go, what? I go, most of it's fake. What do you mean? I said, I've been watching this 40 years. Most places that I've been. The majority of the manifestations are not caused by the Holy Spirit. They go, really? But I said, but the problem is it's not all fake and the genuine is in our midst. And I will allow a whole lot of Hamburger Helper to allow the genuine take place. I said, I won't promote it, but I will allow it because the genuine is so important to the kingdom of God. But that always throws off people if they're young and new at this. They go, it is fake. I go, yeah. I go, just, you know, don't be so open minded. Your brains fall out. You can understand that the real and the genuine and the fake all exist together in one setting. And it's that way everywhere. There's nothing unique here. It's not any different here than anywhere. It's that way everywhere. I've. I've been in revival, renewal, holy spirit settings in many countries. So I believe in prophecies, dreams, visions, healings. I've seen the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, so powerful, so real, some of them bizarre, but real. I've seen a lot of people fake
- [268:57]
Mike Winger
them in our community.
- [268:59]
Narrator/Commentator
Healings, dreams, visions, all that stuff. But you know what I do? I am so zealous for the real. I'm so hungry for the real that I don't get offended by what I call the Hamburger Helper, the added extra. Some people fake them blatantly, some people don't fake them, they're genuinely seeking them. But still the experience isn't real, though the people are genuine. There's all kinds of categories. But I am not throwing away the real because humans are involved. And there's some of that other stuff for anybody who's still at this stage is thinking, you know, maybe he's right, maybe it was like mostly real and only somewhat fake. You know, Mike was a guy of integrity and he really tried to steward well, the prophetic. Allow me to read to you from the Kansas City Star. This is about the independent investigation that showed Mike Bickle had 17 victims. This just recently happened and it came out, but he's been doing it for decades. I read here from the report of the Kansas City Star talking about the independent investigation. It says the 68 page report names the woman identified as Jane Doe whose allegations about Bickle were made public in October 2023, causing upheaval in the 247 global prayer movement. That's IHOP and inspiring other women to come forward. Deborah Perkins said that Bickle used prophecies to groom, sexually abuse and manipulate her from 1996 to 1999, starting when she was 19 and he was 42. She said Bickle told her repeatedly that God had spoken to him saying his wife Diane was going to die and that they would then be married. This turns out to be something that Mike Bickle said to a lot of women and there are 17 victims, not witnesses, victims that have come forward. In the report I read on, it says two other women later came forward and said Bickle used a nearly identical prophecy and grooming them. Mike Bickle, he called it Hamburger Helper. It was much, much worse than that. This was just standard practice amongst these core guys who became the foundation that has spilled over into modern day Bethel. I think that Bethel Bill Johnson, these guys fully know that the regular faking of prophecy and healings is present now. We have more evidence to present to you even today. More evidence, because this video is never going to end and I'm never going to go to bed and I'm losing my voice and I'm not done yet, but I need to share it all. And I hate making these videos. I'd rather just dump it all into one video and move on. But this causes abuses, this attitude of allowing the fakery of prophecy and the abuse of the people, the body of Christ, the abuse of your own people who follow you and trust you and look at you as Papa Bill. This creates abuses for them because it creates a culture of COVID up and turns people's eyes blind and causes people to then be raised up who are what. It means that the top leaders in the movements will always be frauds because no one can compete with the number of miracles that a guy who's faking can get. This is why Todd White can rise up in your environment and you don't correct him. This is why when people reach out and say, hey Bethel, will you help us hold Todd accountable? You will never ever do it because it would undermine the whole house of cards. Fake prophecies, fake miracles, fake healings, celebrate them as true. I'm not saying every prophecy is fake or every healing or every miracle is fake. Not at all. I'M saying that the environment wherein you encourage and embrace the fakery is an environment that is not honoring to Christ. It is harmful and dangerous to people, and it raises up frauds in your midst, and it will always do it over and over and over again. You celebrate the fakes because that's what it takes. Who cares if those feathers are really angel feathers? Let's just pretend they are. Because, man, people are flying to our church from all around the world now that they think that angel feathers are showing up in our building. That gold dust is materializing from thin air because of the glory cloud of God. I think you're okay with it being fake. I think you don't mind, Bill. Chris. I think you don't care. I think there's some line people cross where you go, you know what? You're out, Sean. But is that line faking, or is that line not faking well enough to get away with it? What are they really getting in trouble for? So Sean wasn't exposed because it's so pervasive. And I believe that this is fed by revival culture. You have to have more miracles than the other church. You have to be the place where people want to visit. People have to come to your place. This Jesus image works really hard to be like, this is the hub. This is where the Holy Spirit is moving. Morning Star. This will be the center of the new revival. God's going to start a revival in America. Bob Jones told us. Morning Star is going to be the start. So people are supposed to move out there. Bethel, come to Reading. Bill, I'll share a prophecy. He gives here a false prophecy encouraging people to move to Reading because they all want to be the place where people come. Right? Remember the rich people. Come live with me. No, come live with me. God is calling you. Now, when you add to all of this Bethel's track record with things like the Physics of Heaven controversy, or with. With Brian Simmons and the Passion translation and the ridiculous and silly and bad things that were done in relation to that. There's just problem after problem. There is a network of fake prophecy going on in the movement. You've got Bob Jones, who faked stuff. I'll have more stuff on Bob Jones in the future. You've got Paul Kane, who just helped us to raise up and then defend Sean Bowles and keep him from being exposed. Earlier on, Mike Bickle. You have William Branham. You have Bob Hartley. You have Chris Reed. More on that. Who tried to bribe the guys from the Remnant Radio when they were trying to expose him. For being a fake prophet.
- [274:23]
Mike Winger
But there are other allegations that we are aware of that have come to us. This will be news for the public at large.
- [274:29]
Narrator/Commentator
This will be news for everyone. Nobody knows this, so you might have
- [274:33]
Mike Winger
heard us online talk about knowing that someone has cheated prophetically.
- [274:37]
Narrator/Commentator
Allegations were brought to us from multiple sources. So we had logged a bunch of
- [274:42]
Mike Winger
information suggesting that Chris Reed had mind
- [274:45]
Narrator/Commentator
information online in his prophetic words.
- [274:49]
Mike Winger
We were informed that Rick Joyner knew about this data mining that, that Chris had already confessed this even before taking the job at Morningstar. And so we said, yeah, but what have you done to make it right with the victims? But there was a couple of other things that happened in this exchange. One, I got some, really, when Chris, he found out that I was asking questions about him, that I was poking around, one of the people that I have interviewed and asked questions about called up Chris and told him what I was doing. Chris then sent me some really strange text. Hey, I know that you're investigating me. Hey, I know that. And there was, like, a offer to give me money via PayPal, which is exactly what he did. What's your Cash app? Yeah, well, it's through PayPal, through Cash App. What's your Venmo? It was all those kind of things. And when we confronted Chris about that, he said, well, you know, I just kind of had this idea that you're supposed to bless those who persecute you. And I felt like you guys were persecuting me about something that I had already repented for and tried to own. What was also happening was that there was information that we didn't know, that there was these other allegations of grooming this woman who was a student at the School of Ministry at Morningstar, that he had done the same thing, offered her money.
- [275:58]
Narrator/Commentator
You know, there was.
- [275:59]
Mike Winger
It was like one allegation was siloed from the other allegation, and those who were bringing this allegation forward didn't know about this other one over here. And so what you're seeing is, collectively, this is a person who's caught and is trying to get his way out of it without it becoming public. And even in the midst of this, I begged Chris, I said, chris, I don't know what the right answer is. I do think this needs to be made public. I'm begging you to make this public. He said, I understand. I said, listen, this is going to haunt you the rest of your life. Either you do this or someone will.
- [276:34]
Narrator/Commentator
Who? I just saw a video yesterday of him apparently faking speaking in tongues, in Russian, because it seems he knew there would be a Russian guy present. So he says a phrase in Russian that is like, you should move and come to this church. And he says, that's for the online audience. God's calling you to move and come to my church. Same old, same old, right? It's always, move here, move here. That's. That's the big thing.
- [276:54]
Mike Winger
I can't just let go until I feel the release of the Holy Spirit.
- [277:02]
Narrator/Commentator
Now, this video was just sent to me. It actually just happened at Chris Reed's new church. And somebody who, quote, has been close to Chris Reed for a few years now, sent this to me. I have to read carefully what he said. This is what I was told. He believes this to be false and was conditioned, concerned enough to raise the alarm, he reached out to somebody and sent the video, which then ended up with me. This is someone that thought what Chris did here was so bad and so wrong that he needed to raise the alarm. So let me show you the reason why this is cause for concern. Now he's waiting for interpretation. And at first no one speaks. And then a woman in his congregation gives an interpretation that doesn't satisfy Chris.
- [278:03]
Stacey Campbell
So as you seek these things, deal with it in your own heart and by the spirit and by my word.
- [278:16]
Narrator/Commentator
So because this isn't the interpretation he wants, he's waiting for more,
- [278:23]
Mike Winger
man. There's a weight of glory.
- [278:24]
Narrator/Commentator
He decides to say it again. And if you look, it looks very clearly like he's reading this off of the platform in front of him.
- [278:36]
Mike Winger
Da pacha mu thai sa pra t V.
- [278:47]
Narrator/Commentator
This woman actually goes to interpret it again. And so you see, it will be like this.
- [278:54]
Stacey Campbell
You will deal with those things in
- [278:57]
Mike Winger
the spirit and it will be released.
- [279:00]
Narrator/Commentator
What's funny here, here is this is a different interpretation than the one she brought before, even though he said the exact same thing.
- [279:05]
Mike Winger
And you will know me and they
- [279:07]
Stacey Campbell
will see the love of God in
- [279:10]
Mike Winger
you and declare Christ is in their midst.
- [279:15]
Narrator/Commentator
Hallelujah.
- [279:23]
Mike Winger
Say it again. Get somebody, get him a mic, please, please help me. Back there, back there.
- [279:30]
Narrator/Commentator
So this is the pivot moment. This guy says, it's Russian, and immediately Chris says, say it again. This is. This, I believe, is what he was waiting on the whole time. You're going to see this was a well orchestrated, planned out thing. So this comes with a request, right? The woman did not get a microphone. Not at all. He just let her talk. What happens when Chris sees that there's a guy who says it's Russian? He gets very excited. He gets him a microphone. And notice that right there he goes. Normally when this guy speaks in tongues, he speaks quiet. He speaks kind of mumbly. It's fluid. Instead, this time when he speaks in Russian, he speaks very clearly. He doesn't speak walking around. He speaks while looking at his pulpit. Everything about this looks sketchy.
- [280:20]
Mike Winger
It was a Russian, which was Russian.
- [280:24]
Narrator/Commentator
Like,
- [280:27]
Mike Winger
was that the one that. Who gave the Russian.
- [280:29]
Narrator/Commentator
I.
- [280:29]
Mike Winger
You said twice.
- [280:30]
Narrator/Commentator
It was the same sentence. It's a.
- [280:33]
Mike Winger
In Russian.
- [280:38]
Narrator/Commentator
I called you to be here while you resist me.
- [280:43]
Mike Winger
Wow. It was a twice.
- [280:45]
Narrator/Commentator
You said this twice in Russian.
- [280:47]
Mike Winger
I said it twice, yes, the same sentence. I do not know Russian. Yeah, you could probably tell by my accent.
- [280:54]
Narrator/Commentator
Yeah, yeah.
- [281:01]
Mike Winger
And once again, I.
- [281:02]
Narrator/Commentator
The.
- [281:03]
Mike Winger
The translation.
- [281:04]
Narrator/Commentator
I called you to be.
- [281:06]
Mike Winger
I called you to be here.
- [281:07]
Narrator/Commentator
Why you resist me?
- [281:09]
Mike Winger
Why do you resist me?
- [281:10]
Narrator/Commentator
Yeah, I called you to be here. Why do you resist me? This is a request for people to move to his church. Remember I told you about the come here strategy? This is part of it right here. This is Chris Reed doing it.
- [281:25]
Mike Winger
That's someone online. Yeah. And God put a Russian speaking person in the room to hear the tongues. Sounds like Acts 2 to me. We do hear these men, Are they not Galileans, speak in our language, the wonderful works of God.
- [281:50]
Narrator/Commentator
And this is where the payoff comes, because if he gets people online. Okay, this is all. Of course, all my commentary here is based upon observation and what it looks like to me. I think that this is accurate. This makes the most sense, and it fits with the person who has known him for years. Who sent this to us? Well, to someone who sent it to me, I'll just say that. And this just happened. I didn't know about this until, like, yesterday. This just happened. And this is the come here strategy. I want people online to come here. And it gets a bit more deep because Chris has just left Morningstar Church. That's Rick Joyner's church. He left kind of disgraced. Morningstar's in a bunch of turmoil because Rick Joyner has put up predators and put them into his congregation, and his own people are now suing him because of that. So this come here thing looks like it's directed at Morningstar and other churches because he wants to get his own thing going.
- [282:46]
Mike Winger
It goes along with what he preached. What did I say? One more time? I'm so drunk.
- [282:52]
Narrator/Commentator
It sounds to me like Chris just knew that a Russian speaker would be there that day.
- [282:55]
Mike Winger
Second time you said really?
- [282:57]
Narrator/Commentator
Well, I mean, it was a real clear to hear it was like, I call you to be here. Why you resist? Why do you resist?
- [283:07]
Mike Winger
I call you to be here. Why do you resist? Let me tell you, there are. I'm pointing to camera three right now. I say this in the fear of God. There are people. You just heard a tongue go forth. And I believe in tongues and interpretation. That's happened here today. But we actually have someone here who speaks fluent Russian. That wasn't tongues and interpretation. That was tongues and translation. I don't know Russian one bit. I barely know English. But there are are people that are watching. And you are invested, or at least you think you are. And you think your money has tied you down. I've put too many years. I've put too much money in another thing, in another place, and you're plugging holes in a sinking ship.
- [284:07]
Narrator/Commentator
I'm informed that this most likely is going to be interpreted as him referring to Morning Star Church.
- [284:12]
Mike Winger
But the people that are in the ship don't know it's sinking until it goes under.
- [284:18]
Narrator/Commentator
So he used to be the guy at Morningstar and he left and now he's trying to get people to join
- [284:22]
Mike Winger
him until everybody that's in the ship is hoping that it's going to stay afloat. And I'm not speaking about any one ministry. There are others. There are several. There are people that God is calling here to form this body. I've called you here. Why do you resist? That's what it said. But, man, I tell you, there are people that are listening right now. Don't let a lie keep you from following God again.
- [284:55]
Narrator/Commentator
This commentary is based upon what looks to be the case and makes a lot of sense with this guy's track record. He is manipulating the people of God. He's doing this not in the fear of God, but for ulterior motives. And I feel bad for the Russian in the audience who thinks he just participated in something wonderful and amazing and from the Holy Spirit. This is why we have to blow up cover up culture. Because if the leaders who had been over and around Chris Reeve would call him out as they should, he would never have a platform to manipulate people like this. You've got. Who else did I mention? You have Rick Joyner, serial equipper of abusers who doesn't protect victims and actually shames. He actually ended up firing the guy who tried to expose Todd Bentley, who was trying to make a harem of women, saying he had a David anointing. So he gets these foreign women. I won't say what country they're from and he reaches out to them privately, gets their numbers and starts texting them. Finally they tell their pastor, their pastor tells this individual who tries to expose and get accountability and he gets fired because of Rick Joyner. What about Augustine Acala and his history with the movement? Or Todd White who still is continuing on even though he's been exposed and they know he's guilty. They just don't care. That's my view on it anyways. Benny Hinn. Oh my goodness. Benny Hinn. Benny Hinn, who has his birthday parties at Jesus Image in their secret building. No one's allowed to take pictures of Benny Hinn. How about Michael Kulianos? Yeah, you, Michael Kulianos, Kenneth Copeland, and on and on and on. Now I believe in some of the smaller charismatic guys, the guys who don't have these gigantic ministries. When I've looked into these giant ministries, I have routinely found the ones who have like the big signs and wonders ones. The ones who are like, no, we have the amazing miracles. Nobody has. I have found routinely that there's a lot of fakery and deception and problems. That's what I have found over and over again. It's a trend. It doesn't mean that nobody can be genuine. I will never make that mistake of thinking everyone's a fraud because there's a bunch of people that are are frauds. That is a fallacy. We shouldn't do that. There's a bunch of fake religions, but there's one true one. There are fake charismatic leaders and there are real, true, good charismatic leaders. The question is, in a culture like this, with COVID up culture, how do you find the real ones? Your safest bet is to just be very cautious and very careful and very thoughtful about these things. I know some leaders who I personally believe in and I do trust. And even if we don't agree on everything, I trust them.
- [287:21]
Mike Winger
Right.
- [287:21]
Narrator/Commentator
I don't think they would lie. I don't think they would deceive. I don't think that they would manipulate. I think that they have ministered to people powerfully through the work of the Holy Spirit. I think they're real. But none of those names I just listed, that's for sure. So consider the following example. Actually said I had more on Bob Jones. I'll share some on Bob Jones right now. I have more on Bob Jones in the future. About the clock, the magic clock that happened when Bob was dying that they said was a sign from God. And. And it was not. It was not. I'll tell you the story about that some other time. So here's why I bring Bob Jones into it. At this point, I want you to understand that the culture of COVID up exists because if you pull one thread like Sean Bulls and you expose him openly and publicly for what he's done, you expose your whole foundation to the same kind of exposure and problems. For example, Bob Jones, now Bob Jones, his impact. I'll let Sean Bowles tell you about Bob Jones's impact here. Let me do it that way, because you do need to know this to understand what coverup culture is.
- [288:28]
Mike Winger
I had a word when I was 15 years old from a friend of mine and she said one day in a worship time, she looks at me, she says, you're going to be Bob Jones and we need to do. Your whole life will change. But this man was involved with Morningstar Ministries, with Rick Joyner. He prophesied the buildings they have and what they're doing. IHOP with international spread Mike Bickle prophesying the House of Prayer movement. You know, Bethel School of Ministry prophesied that with pastor Bill Johnson and Chris Valentin, Lou Engel with a call and Ascend, he helped prophesy those into being. So this man has had a prophetic history of movements and launching leaders around the body of Christ. When he gives people words,
- [289:04]
Narrator/Commentator
that's the Bob Jones guy, right? Bob Jones was this quirky, kind of hillbilly looking dude who talked kind of funny and he would prophesy to people. And he is at the founding. So when Bethel tells the story of how their school of supernatural ministry gets started, guess who is part of it? Bob Jones. Prophetically part of it. He's part of their prophetic history. Because all these people want a prophetic history. This is a big deal. Okay, we've got our anointing. In fact, Chris Valatin says that he was supposed to get Bob Jones's mantle, meaning his prophetic anointing when Bob died. Now, I've seen video where Bob Jones goes, nobody's gonna get my mantle. Nobody gets my mantle. Get your own mantle. I've heard him say this, right? But Chris publicly has said, Bob Jones said I get his mantle. They're tying their current ministry to his anointing when they do this. Lots of ministries have done it. That's the impact of Bob Jones. Now, Bob Jones was not a great guy. Bob Jones was a disaster and he caused a lot of problems. I'll talk a little bit about that. But I'll say this. When you have a prophecy from Bob Jones talking about God doing an amazing Work in your midst, Right? Like when he says, morning Star will be the beginning of the great next, the next great revival. I saw a vision of a man. He was laying on the. And his head was right where Morning Star is on the map of the United States. And he's going to be this new man, this. The new Latter Day Saints rising up. I said Latter Day Saints. That's not what I meant. The new end times believers rising up. Anyways, Bob Jones prophesied so Morningstar can use this for fundraising, be part of what God is doing, invest in what the work of the Lord is. We have a prophecy about this. But Bill Johnson could use this for fundraising. You could take the credibility that Bob never should have had, that he had because of COVID up culture, and you can use this to do fundraising. So if you pull that thread, there's a cost to exposing it. So one of the things Bob did, which I mentioned earlier, was he took two women and he prophesied to them that God was going to call them to. I'm going to use the details here a little bit, guys, so forgive me, this is going to get gross. He told these two women, a mother and daughter, that God was giving them a special Sarah anointing and that they were going to like nurse movements or something like that. And so they had to take off their clothing, the top of their clothing, and he sucked on them. Okay? That's what he did. This is what this man did. Then because there were two of them, this thing went out. They were like, they felt it was wrong. They decided to expose it. Other people were mad too. John Wimber was really mad because he had just partnered with Mike Bickel. This was like 1991, I think. Think he just partnered with Bickle. He brought Bickle in. Bickle brought in into the Vineyard movement like all these other prophet guys. Agostin Ocala, who ended up being a predator. Paul Kane, who ended up being a predator who faked prophecy. And even Chuck Smith knew about that and these other guys. So Bob Jones was a big one. He was one of the Kansas City prophets. Big deal. Publicly, there was an apology that went out. Bob, he's getting better. He's reformed. Privately, Bob was telling people, I'll allege this, I think this is true. Privately, Bob was telling people he is, quote, more anointed than ever. There's a delusional man. He was told if he didn't leave Kansas, like move out of the. He was going to get sued. This is what I've been told. He was mad at John Wimber because John Wimber was requiring accountability. I think Mike Bickle would have swept this under the rug because he swept his own sin under the rug for decades, even after this, and Paul Kane's. But I think he's mad at John Wimber because John Wimber had enough integrity to go, no, no, no, no, no, you're done, this is wrong. And he ended up regretting that he had ever connected Vineyard to this movement, to these guys. He wasn't public enough about that, but that was the case. So Bob's mad at John Wimber. So Bob prophesies that LA is going to be destroyed and everybody should get out of there. He's using prophecy as a weapon. Bob Scott tells a story in his book. Some say they blundered. And I think it's in the book or it might have been in a private conversation I had with Bob. I'm trying to remember now, but Bob Scott tells the story of how Bob Jones actually made up a prophecy just to attack Bob's character because he was mad at him. Bob regularly used prophecy to manipulate people. It wasn't just this one case. Now he did get exposed and it was sort of publicly known, although the details were not publicly stated in any kind of way, but it was sort of known, right? Here's the question I have. When Bob Jones was exposed, did they ever do an investigation to find out how many victims he had? Or was it only these two women that we ever found out about? Did he have a victim in 1990, another one in 1982, another one in 1995? Did he have another one years later? Because Bob was reinstated back into ministry, he was serving, he was being invited to Bethel, he was prophesying to them, he was prophesying to their school of ministry people. And here, years and years later, Sean Bowles is like, bah, what a great guy. He's a little quirky and he had one mistake, but that is not the real story. That's cover up culture. That is deceptive. Let me give you another example of COVID up culture. Bill is, I believe, captured by these false prophets. Because the scripture says that these men are deceiving and they are deceived. It describes certain men. And I think that that description, at least that part of it applies to Bill as well. I think he's deceiving and deceived. Here's an example of Sean Bowles doing his shtick with Bill Johnson regarding his dad.
- [294:33]
Mike Winger
I just saw in heaven what's happening in a heavenly scenario. And I was seeing Bob Jones talk to somebody. That's kind of weirding me out, but in a good way. I don't know who the person is. I've never met him, the person he's talking to. But I start seeing a map and I'm driving like I'm, I'm on Olive Street. And you turn right and there's Gold street. And then you turn right and there's Oak Ridge Street. Does this make sense to somebody your mom lives on like Oak Ridge Street. Gold Olive. Olive. They turn right and you turn around to Gold Street. You turn right, it's Oak Ridge Street.
- [295:14]
Narrator/Commentator
It sounds like he couldn't remember the street order as well. And so he jumbled it up a bit. But now he's trying to kind of rescue it because he knows the end result is he's got to get to Bill Johnson's parents house. Right. Because that's where this prophecy is going to connect.
- [295:27]
Mike Winger
That's exactly right. So God's talking to somebody. But I don't think your dad's name is Earl, but this man's name is Al or Melvin or something.
- [295:41]
Narrator/Commentator
Wow.
- [295:43]
Mike Winger
His dad is Melvin Earl Johnson.
- [295:47]
Narrator/Commentator
So his dad would always go with Earl Johnson. That's what everybody called him Earl. But his actual first name was Melvin. And so he goes. Bob was talking to somebody. Oh, I just Streets. It was your parents house. But it couldn't have been your dad he was talking to because your dad's not Melvin, your dad's Earl. And now he's prompted Bill. Now he's waiting for Bill to explain it. What his name is Earl Ann Melvin. Let's watch that again. I want you to see it, See how he sets it up and see how the response comes.
- [296:18]
Mike Winger
That's exactly right. So God's talking to somebody. But I don't think your dad's name is Earl. But this man's name is like Alvin or Melvin or something.
- [296:32]
Narrator/Commentator
Wow.
- [296:35]
Mike Winger
His dad is melvin earl alvin or melvin or something.
- [296:42]
Narrator/Commentator
Wow.
- [296:44]
Mike Winger
His dad is Melvin Earl Johnson. So Bob Jones and Melvin Earl are talking to each other. Gold Street. And I said I saw your dad. Now I know it's your dad. It's like I saw he lives.
- [296:55]
Narrator/Commentator
So now he's going to continue to prophesy. He's like, oh yeah, I saw Bob and your dad talking to each other. He's witnessing this in heaven. He's communicating with those who have died. And, and he gets this, this, this prophecy related to the street names. Okay. Gold street and all this on Gold street now.
- [297:08]
Mike Winger
But on the natural is, oh great, that Makes sense.
- [297:11]
Narrator/Commentator
There's Danny Silk to his left and Chris Valentin on his right. You guys should, all three of you should be very angry at Sean. He is lying to Bill. He's even using his shtick on Bill. Is Bill doing this thing where you knowingly participate or he unknowingly is participating? That's the question. I am beginning to think he's knowingly participating, but I don't know for sure. But it's crazy that he had the chutzpah to do this to the number one guy in Bethel and one of the number one guys in the charismatic church.
- [297:44]
Mike Winger
But you have to go down Gold Street. You need the resources. So the anointing is going to produce the resources in this next season. And I saw the Lord saying that there's a. There's.
- [297:53]
Narrator/Commentator
That creates fundraising, by the way. When you have a prophecy, the anointing is going to produce the resources. And then the rich people are like, it's time. It's time for me to give and invest. You know, that's what it does.
- [298:02]
Mike Winger
It's a release, like I said. Just think of Bob Jones word. It was exactly how he would give a word. So this is literal. And there's a release of great provision that's coming out of the anointing to plant the oaks. Bill, you're going to get it. But there's the anointing to produce the gold, to produce the oaks of righteousness is coming. And Bob and your dad are talking about this.
- [298:24]
Narrator/Commentator
Vagaries, vagaries. What's the result of it? It's super specific knowledge about, like, I know your dad's real first name. That's what you really got here. I know your dad's first naming where he lived. What is the actual result? Money will come and the oaks and the right and you'll understand something cool. Something cool is coming. So he's actually doing this to Bill. I think Bill is actually deceived. Bill talks again. He talks about how he replays prophecies from Sham Bowles on his phone. He plays them back to him just to listen to them. And I'm under the impression that he's very captured by this, that he's both deceiving and deceived both of them. Let me mention Paul Kane, because now what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to show you guys there's a larger pattern with coverup culture. Shambles is just the rabbit that we chase down the hole. It just gets bigger and worse as you go. And hopefully now you realize you're down the hole too. And you realize that the charismatic world, when it comes to guys groups like Bethel and Morningstar and ihop, it is wonderland. It is not the real world. Paul Kane. Paul Kane was exposed by one of his close confidants. I don't know how much this I should even share with you guys. I'll tell you some of it. A guy named Jack Dear. Jack Dear finally came out years and years later to reveal that Paul Kane, who was considered one of the Kansas City prophets, one of the big dogs, he says, my desire for power enabled Paul Kane's manipulation. And here he comes out and he tells some of the story. And you could read through it. You could check this out on your own. You just Google that. My desire for power enabled Paul Caine's manipulation by Jack Dear. On the Divine Detours substack. He goes through a bunch of details. He talks about a bunch of stuff. Paul Kane helped to prop up guys like Mike Bickle. Mike Bickle would gather these fake prophets around him and then use them. It was a shtick. And you realize that if you. You don't have to be the prophet. You can gather the prophets, right? You can be the apostle. That's what Mike Bickle was. And you gather the prophets around you and they prophesy things to you and then you tell other people about them and then everybody comes alongside. Is that not the same thing I just saw happen on stage with Sean Bowles prophesying to Bill Johnson in front of everybody. So it makes him look like the anointed one of God and all this kind of thing. It's mutually beneficial relationship. Very importantly, Jack Dear says our eventual compromise resulted in a statement. He's speaking, by the way of Paul Cain when he was exposed for great sin being predatory behavior. Fake prophecy. Sound familiar? He says our eventual compromise resulted in a statement that downplayed the reality of Paul's actions, portraying them as temporary moral failings rather than acknowledging the truth of his lifelong predatory behavior. That's what he says in this article. And I think it's important to recognize that sounds like Bethel with Bowls or Bethel with Bob Hartley, that there is a downplaying. When the statement finally comes out. It's more like self protection. Jack Dear also has an article on Mike Bickle and his issues. And I'll just show you the screenshot of it so you can take a look at it if you want, where he talks about some of it. Now, these are insiders. It's important when they do come out. And I'm glad when they do. But now I need to talk about a new section here in the video. Bethel's pattern of lack of accountability. And that's putting it mildly. Let me talk about the show me the toes controversy. Does that sound more interesting? The show me the toes controversy. Now, Bill was a guest teacher at John Lindell's James River Church. You may have heard of James River Church. They were in the news recently because him, John Lindell, and Mark Driscoll had, like, a spat, and they were calling each other names or something weird like that. And it was about, like, some guy who was dancing, like, almost like a male stripper at their men's event. And I am not talking about that today, but you may have heard of him because of that. I think it was that same guy, James Lindell. So Bill was speaking at James Lindell's church. Now, James Lindell loves Bill Johnson. They are, like, tight. When I made a video a while back where I talked about Bethel and some of the issues with, like, the physics of heaven, I think it was that video. John Lindell went public to his congregation and to all of the people they influence. I didn't even talk about it publicly, but he went public and he said, don't even watch a negative video about Bill Johnson. I don't want to hear any of that stuff. He said something to that effect. So he doesn't want people watching it. Like, information control, thought control. Don't even think about it. You see no video. Mike Winger does not exist. His videos do not exist. Do not consider them. So they're tight. Now, Bill was at John Lindell's church, and he taught about creative miracles. Creative miracles meaning, like, growing back. I don't know, some toes. And so he taught about creative miracles. And then he says supposedly tons of people were healed. And Bill talks about it in a video that is still on their YouTube channel. I just want to double check. Is it still there? I'll just double check. Yes, it is still there. Here, I'll just. I'll show you guys. This is currently still on their YouTube channel. And that's the title of it. Or you can't see the title of it. Scroll down. It says, Bethel Church service, Haley Braun sermon, Worship with Brian and Jen Johnson. That's the name. It was streamed two years ago, March 19, 2023. Oh, and you can donate to them. There's a little donate button right here. You guys can donate. So here's the thing. Bill is here back at his home church talking about the experience he had at John Lindell's church, James River Church. So he's giving the testimony. This isn't the video of him at the church. Okay. Actually, the testimony is the important part. Let me now play for you what he said about it.
- [304:06]
Mike Winger
It's one of the most incredible weeks of my life this last week for quite a few reasons, but one, I was at a great, great church in Springfield, Missouri, and James River Church there. Great, amazing. Pastors just can't speak high too high of them. We had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miracles over three nights.
- [304:31]
Narrator/Commentator
Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miracles over three nights. Usually Bill's fake miracles come with just claims that a whole bunch of people got healed. Someone's liver is getting healed. Raise your hand if that's you. Amen. Praise God. Miracle. That's all it takes, right? So he claims here hundreds of miracles, but there's one specific miracle that he's going to highlight and we're going to chase that trail because we want them to show us the toes.
- [304:56]
Mike Winger
But. But the last one is the one I want to tell you about. The last night, a woman was there who had been shot twice by her husband. Anybody else glad that Jesus heals the inside as well as the outside.
- [305:07]
Narrator/Commentator
Tragic story of this woman. She had three toes amputated as a result of being shot, I guess, in the foot. Crazy.
- [305:15]
Mike Winger
Yeah. And because of it, she had to have three toes amputated. And I happened that evening to be talking about creative miracles that we've seen. We just began to pray just randomly for creative miracles. And this gal was at one of the other campuses and said, I want my toes back. And so another guy I was praying for took about 30 minutes. Minutes. But they saw the bone come wrap in flesh, completely grow out. And by morning, the toenails, everything had formed. She got three brand new toes. Three brand new toes.
- [305:47]
Narrator/Commentator
Keep listening.
- [305:48]
Mike Winger
The woman who did the praying, her husband is a medical doctor and he came and examined and yep, she's got three brand new toes. So that works. I. I guess the person with the three new toes would know, but it's also nice to have a doctor come and check things out and say, guess what? This is for real?
- [306:05]
Narrator/Commentator
Yeah. Yeah. You don't need a doctor to confirm whether toes exist or don't exist. That's pretty easy to do. But what a wild claim with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miracles. I'll tell you one story. Here's one really cool. One of the best times of his life. He says this woman had three toes. They grew back by morning. They were fully grown. A doctor confirmed it. Her toes. All right, let's learn more about the toe situation, because it gets stinky.
- [306:34]
Mike Winger
As the ladies prayed for Chrissy over
- [306:36]
Narrator/Commentator
the next 30 minutes, this is John Lindell. He's telling the story from his own pulpit about the same lady. Okay? So she got healed. He's gonna. So Bill's. Bill's using it. He's telling the story, and now John Lindell's using it as well. Listen to how he tells it. It's a little different. All three toes grew, and by that
- [306:53]
Mike Winger
point, were longer than her pinky toe within an hour, and nails began to grow on all the toes.
- [307:03]
Narrator/Commentator
Because her miracle is real. It's genuine. What I want to assure you of is it's real. It's real. It's real.
- [307:12]
Mike Winger
It's real.
- [307:13]
Narrator/Commentator
It's real.
- [307:14]
Mike Winger
So it is a legitimate miracle.
- [307:19]
Narrator/Commentator
And, you know, we can provide the kind of proof that would be necessary, people that. They can provide the proof. It'd be easy, right? Show us the toes.
- [307:30]
Mike Winger
That's if you've seen pictures of the toast. I have.
- [307:32]
Narrator/Commentator
So I've seen the picture of the toes. The picture of the toes. So John Lindell and Bill Johnson both presenting this as 100% true. One says, verify by a doctor here. Their timelines are both different here. But he's saying, yeah, even the nails grew back. As in, there wasn't even, like, whatever the stuff is that grows nails that didn't exist. Right. The toes grew back, the bones repaired the skin, the flesh, and even the nails come in. It's real. It's real. It's real. I promise you it's real. We have the proof. This is actually from John. This is super important. We know this. John Lindell's ministry, they put this video up of this woman, so they're promoting her face. They're showing her face. They're having her tell her story. This wasn't Internet sleuths that did this. This was them. And here's her telling the story. So I had three toes that were amputated in a terrible accident. I heard the word for creative miracles,
- [308:29]
Stacey Campbell
and I thought, well, I certainly have
- [308:31]
Narrator/Commentator
a creative miracle that I. That was from Bill Johnson. The word for creative miracles was Bill Johnson. So she's like, yeah, I want that.
- [308:37]
Stacey Campbell
I might need.
- [308:38]
Narrator/Commentator
I need three toes to grow back. The person next to said, do you want new toes?
- [308:43]
Stacey Campbell
And I was like, well, sure.
- [308:45]
Mike Winger
All the women got down and they
- [308:47]
Stacey Campbell
prayed over my foot, and I decided
- [308:49]
Mike Winger
to take my shoe off to see
- [308:50]
Narrator/Commentator
what was happening when he said, let's see the progress or if anything's happened. And when I did, I had to grab the person next to me and
- [308:57]
Stacey Campbell
say, do you see what I see?
- [308:59]
Narrator/Commentator
So immediate, visible change of healing is what she's claiming.
- [309:04]
Stacey Campbell
And I saw three toes that were
- [309:08]
Narrator/Commentator
forming, and now there's length to them.
- [309:10]
Stacey Campbell
Tonight I can stand on my tippy toes.
- [309:13]
Narrator/Commentator
Listen, do you understand? I can stand on tippy toes.
- [309:17]
Stacey Campbell
No, I couldn't do that because I didn't have those to be on.
- [309:22]
Narrator/Commentator
He's playing this first congregation.
- [309:25]
Mike Winger
All right, come on, let's bless the Lord. He's Jehovah.
- [309:29]
Narrator/Commentator
Rapha.
- [309:31]
Mike Winger
Lord, we praise you.
- [309:35]
Narrator/Commentator
You're embarrassing the name of God with this. John Lindell. The most obvious thing to do is show us your toes. They grew back. Show them.
- [309:45]
Mike Winger
Show us.
- [309:45]
Narrator/Commentator
Like, why didn't she just take her shoe off, her sock off, and just show, like, right then and there when she's doing the interview? Instead, she does this thing where I can stand on my tippy toes. I couldn't do that before. I didn't have toes. I don't know what that means. You could cut off all of my toes, and I could still push up onto the top of my foot. I don't know what that means. Okay. But it's proof. There's proof. There's proof. Now people are asking. They're like, dude, you guys are 468,000 views of. Just the short of you guys putting this. I think this might have been Instagram or I don't know what this was. Is that Twitter? I don't remember. Whichever one it was, that's just one spot where this is being recounted. And people are asking. They're like, show us the proof. Somebody actually started a website called show us the toes or showmethetoes.com, something like that. And they were asking for the proof and trying to catalog whether or not there was actually any evidence. So John Lindell's under pressure now. He's put her face in front of everybody. He's told the story. Bill Johnson's told the story, and people want evidence. He said he had the proof. Just show it. Now he's going to. Here's a compilation of him explaining why he's not going to show any of the proof.
- [310:52]
Mike Winger
How many miracles do you have to see before you believe?
- [310:58]
Narrator/Commentator
You know, there are some of you, and you've heard miracle, over 4,000.
- [311:02]
Mike Winger
Now you've heard miracle after miracle of healing, and you're still sitting there saying, well, you know, I just don't know
- [311:09]
Narrator/Commentator
I got to see the toes. Yep, he's shaming us.
- [311:17]
Mike Winger
I'm going to tell you what.
- [311:18]
Narrator/Commentator
See the toes all you want. You're still not going to believe because unbelief never has enough proof because her miracle is real. It's genuine.
- [311:28]
Mike Winger
People are saying, well, if it's genuine, why aren't you?
- [311:30]
Narrator/Commentator
Why aren't you doing anything with it to publicize it?
- [311:33]
Mike Winger
There's a couple of reasons that I
- [311:34]
Narrator/Commentator
want to say to you. First of all, his first reason is going to be, I want to protect her. Even though he put her face out already. Let's listen to this.
- [311:43]
Mike Winger
I'm less interested in proving to people
- [311:46]
Narrator/Commentator
what I know God did than I am in protecting sheep who are vulnerable. I'm going to tell you why I believe this is totally a complete lie.
- [311:58]
Mike Winger
And I'm going to protect sheep first.
- [312:00]
Narrator/Commentator
That's my first concern is for her, right? So right now the scenario is you put this woman up, you told everybody about her miracle experience. The Internet is doubting you, is doubting her, is doubting that this is real. And there are people who are bothering her on social media and stuff like this, and they don't believe that it's real. So she actually, at this point, wanted to prove it was real. She wants people to know it's real. It's real. She's trying to put the evidence out there. She actually eventually posts a photo of her own foot on her Facebook page. I think it was Facebook. And it's the only thing that John Lindell won't do is actually show the proof. Because then people would celebrate, oh, my gosh, look at this great miracle that God's actually healed you. You could show us the photo before and you could show us the photo after. We've got. There's probably police records to prove about the shooting or medical records. Like, this is a great example of a miracle, which, by the way, I'd be very excited to see. I believe in miracles. I think there are real examples and are even real evidential examples of miracles. But you don't fake them and then lie to your congregation and then gaslight people. You wouldn't believe anything. You wouldn't believe anything. You know that's not true. That's not true. You don't have categories of people who either believe nothing or they believe everything John says. These aren't the two kinds of people in the world. So to protect her, he won't show the proof, but he'll put her face up so that her testimony of the miracle is there and people are investigating and looking into it. The only thing he won't do is show the proof. Well, she wanted to show it. So she goes on social media herself and posts her after pics because she's trying to convince everybody that it's real. She doesn't like that people are doubting it. She wants them to believe. So she made a video, she talks about it. And this is a screen cap from that where she shows us her after photo. And then people zoomed into one of her previous photos on Facebook, her before photo. And you can see the difference. There isn't one. There are no nails. That's not. There's still three toes that have been, have significant amputation. And when you look at the before pictures, they look the same. I don't have to even tell you guys, you, you can see it for yourself. John Lindell told his congregation, I've seen the photos, it's real, it's real, it's real. That was a bald faced lie based upon this evidence. When he was challenged on it, he gaslit and he condemned and he basically accused other people of them having a problem. And that was the reason why they were even asking for evidence. He assured us that they'd seen 4,000 miracles already. These kinds of miracles. Because in cover up culture you're also covering up that your miracles aren't always real, aren't you? Right. You can't expose anything because if you expose anything, it might expose everything. That's cover up culture. But it feels so good, man. You feel like you're the place. John Lindell's James River Church. This is the place where God is moving. And if you go like, is God really moving? They're like, what is wrong with you? You have unbelief. What is wrong with you? You. This is part of COVID up culture. Supposedly it was verified by a doctor. That's what Bill Johnson told his people. He's still telling his people that. It's still up on their YouTube and it's still currently propagating more deception. And I'm going to give you another example. This is an example of a prophecy fail from Bill. Bill Johnson. So let's look at this clip. This is from 2009. And the reason why we're going all the way back to 2009 is the. Because I want us to understand that the prophecy didn't come to pass. And so we have to give some space of time. If he prophesied something last year, maybe I haven't given enough time for it to take place. Here's a 2009 prophecy. It comes from Bill from the pulpit, but originally from another pastor. We'll tell you all about it. This is actually a video also from Steven Kozar, who's done some great work on this stuff. And here Steve calls it out. Now, I, I've cut up Steve's video. It's not his full video, but it's enough that I think it'll get us get the point across. So here we go. The failed prophecy of Bethel Redding. The failed prophecy that I will add again, a move to reading type prophecy where he's trying to get people to uproot their lives and move to his town for whatever reason.
- [316:03]
Mike Winger
I don't always read the words that we get, the prophetic words, but this one was given to me this week by Steve. Steve Witt has been a very accurate and faithful prophetic voice. Very accurate and faithful prophetic voice to us. A great encouragement to me. His daughter was a part of our school of ministry for a couple years and he was just with us, I think last Sunday, Sunday before. Anyway, he wrote this word.
- [316:29]
Narrator/Commentator
Okay, again, it doesn't mean anything when Bill says someone's very accurate and faithful because he said that about Sean Bowles and then continued to endorse him even after everything was exposed. Insanely. So let's look at the prophecy and
- [316:45]
Mike Winger
there's one phrase in here that helped me to realize I really need to read this to you. Even though the whole thing is good for all of us. This is the reading, anointing a chief navigator in perilous times. Remember that phrase for you, I think
- [317:01]
Narrator/Commentator
the shortcut to Bill's heart is prophesy something good about him.
- [317:04]
Mike Winger
Chief navigator in perilous time. Reading is about to advance quickly as a city doubling in size. Steve Witt should have said that the next decade is going to be the
- [317:13]
Narrator/Commentator
slowest growth that Redding has seen in a hundred years. First prophecy. Redding's going to double in size. That was 2009. And you can see Steve's got numbers up through 2019. I can give you their population in 2024 is 93,500. It didn't double in size. It went from 89, 861 in 2010 up to 93, 502, which is not doubling in size, not remotely
- [317:44]
Mike Winger
doubling in size. A boom town. That which was the butt of California jokes.
- [317:50]
Narrator/Commentator
Hey,
- [317:54]
Mike Winger
who will become a jewel? I want to take a moment to point something out. What happened in Reading or right outside
- [318:00]
Narrator/Commentator
of Reading in the Carr Fire in July of 2018. This so called fire NATO is one of the rarest and most terrifying weather
- [318:10]
Mike Winger
events literally in the history of all weather forecasting, all record keeping about weather events. It's almost unprecedented in all of the weather history.
- [318:23]
Narrator/Commentator
Let me show you an article about this California viral fire tornado has scientists searching for answers.
- [318:31]
Mike Winger
Weather geeks went wild last week when
- [318:33]
Narrator/Commentator
the National Weather Service announced that the Carr fire near Redding, California had spawned
- [318:37]
Mike Winger
the equivalent of an EF3 tornado on July 26.
- [318:41]
Narrator/Commentator
And for good reason.
- [318:42]
Mike Winger
Fire tornadoes are among the rarest weather phenomena on earth.
- [318:46]
Narrator/Commentator
And this vortex had the added distinction of possibly being the strongest tornado like thing in California history. Now I've lived my whole life in
- [318:55]
Mike Winger
the Midwest of the United States and
- [318:57]
Narrator/Commentator
I've had to deal with tornadoes. And they are terrifying. Any size tornado is terrifying.
- [319:02]
Mike Winger
An EF3 is very severe.
- [319:04]
Narrator/Commentator
It does incredible damage.
- [319:05]
Mike Winger
But that's not what happened in Redding.
- [319:07]
Narrator/Commentator
It was an EF3 tornado combined with up to 2700 degrees of fire. This was truly horrifying. And some of those tornadoes, they were classifying those as equal to an F3, possibly an F4 tornado that you would see back east. The only difference is they estimated the temperature in these tornadoes to be 2,700 degrees.
- [319:32]
Mike Winger
Will become a jewel.
- [319:35]
Narrator/Commentator
I'll just add in here real quick. Housing prices in Redding, California, you can look this up yourself. They have increased, as all have in California, but at a much lower rate than the rest of California. Significantly lower rate than the rest of California. It's not a boom town. There's nothing booming. Right. And there was no prophetic warning about the Carr fire in 2018. And they had no prophetic warning about COVID And they actually closed their healing rooms. They have healing rooms, special healing rooms to heal people. Right. They closed them during COVID There was the reading, anointing. That would be the chief navigator in times of peril that Bill Johnson so proudly spoke about in 2009.
- [320:14]
Mike Winger
Nobody saw this coming.
- [320:16]
Narrator/Commentator
It was terrible, it was horrible.
- [320:18]
Mike Winger
And it was not something that anybody predicted.
- [320:21]
Narrator/Commentator
They predicted nothing but good and they got so far nothing but bad.
- [320:25]
Mike Winger
A sense that Governor Schwarzenegger will be a key. I saw him coming to Redding, a veil being removed off his face. He will see Redding as it is seen by heaven.
- [320:37]
Narrator/Commentator
Sometimes this works where they actually. You would get that prophecy into the hands of the guy like of Governor Schwarzenegger at the time and then maybe they'll do something because the prophecy can kind of make it happen. Because they get excited. They're like the center of some prophetic thing, but it didn't happen.
- [320:53]
Mike Winger
He will blow a trumpet, declare to all of California that Reading is open for business. This will be a turning point and a draw for business in Reading. Be a magnetism as well as attracting national headquarters to the area. Properties will skyrocket.
- [321:10]
Narrator/Commentator
Properties will skyrocket again. The growth of property prices in Redding, California is lower than the state average. In California, it's slower growth, not. Not faster. No skyrocketing.
- [321:21]
Mike Winger
This is the time to buy. To buy and build in Reading.
- [321:24]
Narrator/Commentator
If you had bought and built in Reading because of this prophecy from Bill Johnson, you would have made a poor investment, possibly lost money and missed out on other opportunities. But again, these guys love telling people that God's calling them to move into their town, especially people with lots of money to buy and build and do big businesses. It's a common thing in this culture.
- [321:46]
Mike Winger
I also said that commuter flights from Sacramento to Reading would soon be offered. I believe within two years, but I'm not clear on that. It will be a sign that a new level is emerging.
- [321:56]
Narrator/Commentator
Watchful Steve says this never happened. I've. I did a little bit of research on this and I was trying to confirm that the commuter flight thing, it looks to me like there was some commuter flights back in like the 80s. There used to be more, and now generally, no, there are not commuter flights as a general rule, from San Francisco to Bethel. He would like that because Bill likes to go to one of the most expensive restaurants in the world in Sacramento a lot of the time.
- [322:19]
Mike Winger
The name of the airline, I sense it will have a prophetic meaning. Finally, I wrote a prayer. On the morning of Sunday last, while in Reading, I submitted as it is a prayer. I bless you, Reading, with revelation from heaven. May you understand the times and know what to do. You are a sundial in the spirit. His light will cause you to heal the past, comprehend the present and interpret the future. Reveal your secrets.
- [322:47]
Narrator/Commentator
This is Steve Kozar's video style.
- [322:49]
Mike Winger
Tell us all he has given you eyes to see and will establish you as a think tank. Think tank. National business headquarters will be drawn here. Writing will shine like a city of hope. Do not fear. Open the door. As you open this earthly door, my heavenly door will exhaust you with my blessing. Anybody ready to be exhausted? Exhausted? Oh,
- [323:13]
Narrator/Commentator
to my knowledge, none of this, not a single one of these things happen. But when this word goes out, prophecy from Bill. Guys, Bill's sharing a prophecy from this other guy. And it's like we're trusting God for it. Move to Redding. Start your business. In Reading. It's going to be a boom town. Get your real estate. I'm going to buy a few homes because then I can resell them after the boom happens. And no, instead, the car fire burns up your house. No, instead, it's got slower growth than other communities around it. And there's no booming businesses are not reaching out. There's no commuter flights anywhere. Sacramento or whatever it was. He said, it's just not. It's not happening.
- [323:49]
Mike Winger
Ready to be exhausted? Exhaust me with your blessings. That's right. There's five statements. This is a time for hospitality. This is a time to buy.
- [324:00]
Narrator/Commentator
Time to buy again. Prophetically counseling people to spend large amounts of money in a way that would indirectly benefit their local church. That is bad.
- [324:11]
Stacey Campbell
Once again, please, please evacuate everyone and stay safe.
- [324:15]
Narrator/Commentator
Have a good night.
- [324:18]
Mike Winger
This is a time to learn deeper in the spirit. This is a time for deep relationships. The party will not end. That's a good word.
- [324:30]
Narrator/Commentator
Now, it's important that I point out at this point, there is no accountability for these types of statements from Bill Johnson or from other people in the movement. There just isn't. Even though they all know it's wrong, they're just like, well, at least he was hopeful. At least he was. And you guys don't realize, the charismatics, you don't realize you've been brainwashed to think that way. This actually really matters. There's people whose lives were probably harmed significantly because they believed this word that wasn't from the Lord. And then it benefited Bethel because people are moving. People are investing in things that draw attention to the church and make the church that much more of a hub, which. It's a problem. It's a problem. He says Steve Witt has been a very accurate and faithful prophetic voice to us. Do you know that Witt sells courses on how to be more prophetic? He sells courses on those. So Whit had a financial benefit from this. Most likely. 2004 was a turning point for Bethel. It was as if the enemy couldn't hold his finger in the dike any longer. This is the reading anointing. Okay, not true. Didn't happen. But this is the Come here strategy. I want to point this out again. I think it's very important because I know Jesus image does this. Morningstar does this. IHOP would do this. Chris Reed just did this in a video. And the idea is, prophetically tell people that they have to relocate to your local ministry thing so that you can keep building and building and building. This is the center of the coming revival. This is where God's spirit is working. This is where your healing comes, right? If you just get here, if you just sell everything and travel here, maybe God will heal you of that problem that you have. You should expect it, right? That's the implication of things. The Bethel narrative is that they're in a long, steady march towards incredible healing and prosperity. Remember Benny joked about how no one should die. She tragically passed away from cancer in 2022. So why was this prophecy read from the stage if it wasn't true, if it wasn't from the Holy Spirit? It was read from the stage because it served their purposes of being the revival culture, place and the come here strategy. I think that that's why. Let me give you another example. Man, I hate doing these videos. Another example. This I struggle with whether I would share this or not. This is the Wake Up Olive controversy, okay? There was this beautiful little girl that passed away and for a week or around a week, they would not allow her to be buried or reclaim her body. And the reason is because they were going to raise her from the dead. Because Bethel has in the past they've had dead raising teams like a team who's like, where are the dead raising team? They've clanked that multiple people have been raised from the dead. Although I haven't ever seen any examples. I'd love to talk. That'd be so exciting, guys. That would be awesome. I would celebrate this. I don't care if it was Bethel who did it. I would be like so happy. But they instead did this. The worship leaders and the parents even in on it. Everybody in on it. They, for a week, they scream and holler and they sing worship songs and they promise and they prophesy and they proclaim that she's going to raise from the dead in a way that is just so tragic. Here's a tiny piece of. Was deeply irresponsible for the pastors to allow this to take place. Now, if you had a revelation from God that Olive was going to be healed, that she was going to be raised and it would be deeply faithful. But you had no such revelation. You prophesied, you guys prophesied, you guys proclaimed. You guys made it hugely public. You embarrassed the body of Christ. You embarrassed yourselves. And it was because of your guys teaching of prophecy. It just doesn't matter if you're wrong. You're allowed to say what you want. Bill has taught. I heard him teach this. I actually have it in a video somewhere from years ago where he's actually taught that sometimes with prophecy, you can prophesy something that God isn't even saying, and then God will say it because you prophesied it. That is called fake prophecy. But that is the teaching that's behind. I think they wake up all of controversy. And you can look into that more on your own if you want. I'm sorry. It's so sad. I didn't even want to talk about it. But I wanted to mention it because once again, Bethel has a problem. And it's all connected. The treatment of prophecy, the treatment of miracles, the treatment of all of these things is connected. And I call it cover up culture. Because you're going to cover up the fake and you're going to try to celebrate it like it's real. And it doesn't matter when people fake. So Bethel has a problem. They endorsed Benny Hinn. They endorsed Kenneth Copeland. They endorsed Todd Bentley as this great coming apostle guy, right? They platformed Todd White with the Passion translation. Bill wrote the foreword to the thing and was selling their own version of it, even though it's bad news. Then we have Bob Hartley. I did a whole video on this. I won't get into that video. Bob Hartley, bad dude. Faking prophecy for generations. Are you getting sick of this? Are you guys realizing why I say cover up culture? And it's a systematic problem in the charismatic church. And it's not all charismatic churches, but in particular, I've looked into, like, Morningstar, Bethel, ihop, William Branham, and the movements and stuff that have spawned from him this stuff. It's a problem. So Bob Hartley goes back with Mike Bickle. He goes back to Bob Jones, right? That's him with Bob Jones and Mike Bickle. And when Bob Jones got pulled out of ministry, Bob Hartley. Oh, I meant to put on your screen. So Bob Hartley. Let's talk about. Briefly mention some of the Bob Hartley saga. I'll link the video down below. That will give all the information. I'll just mention some of it now because the way Bethel handled it, again, shows cover up culture. It's a pattern. It's a plan. It's the way business is done. That's how I understand it. So here's Bob Hartley with Mike Bickle. They're good pals. They go way, way back. Here's Bob Hartley with Mike Bickle and with Bob Jones. And they go obviously way back. When Bob Jones fell in 1990s, early 90s, Bob Hartley, I'm told, became the go between. If you wanted to talk to Bob Jones, you had to go Through Bob Hartley. And Bob was exposed. Okay? Michelle Seidler, In January of 2024, she exposed Bob for being a predator against women, for offering to pay women for, you know what, and a bunch of other stuff. And his son then came out in March 6th of 2024 showing that his dad had been faking prophecy, that his dad said it's normal in the movement and everybody does it. And he gave specific examples, and that his dad was also being predatory towards women. And he only came out the son, Jedediah, who I interviewed. And I'll link that interview down below. The son only came out publicly because Bethel wouldn't. And if Michelle Seiler of Bethel had come out publicly, she wouldn't have had to either. But they wouldn't do it. I go through the whole drama. We talk about all of it in the video. I'll link down below. I'll just show you a little. Little bits of it. Okay? According to Michelle, they knew about Bob back in 2016 or 17. They knew about his predatory behaviors. And an email went out to Bethel leadership only. And it was very vague. And it was basically, don't go to Bob's house. Don't talk to. Don't have. Do stuff with Bob. That was kind of what it was, but it didn't explain why it didn't warn people. I had a former staff member of Bethel reach out and go, yeah, I remember that email. And it was so vague, we didn't know what it meant. Bob was still active in Bethel even after that. He was still preying on people in their church even after that. His patterns were offering money to women for intercourse and also pushing himself physically on people. Michelle says that he came to her house intoxicated, pulled all his clothes off, and chased her around the room. What is it with these guys? And just uninvitedly disrobing and the prophecy stuff. He would prophesy to girls that he was going to marry them and about how wonderful they would be and all this stuff. And he would flash his money around and he would use this to try to, you know, carnal pleasures. Here's a creepy video that Bob sent to a woman he had met one time and prophesied over one time. And then he sent her this video. He's trying to offer her money in order to get her. Well, I'll just play the video.
- [332:44]
Mike Winger
Hey, this is me right now. I don't mean for a woman to be near me or be with me, but I love to bless, and I've worked hard, and I would do that. But I don't need this. I know everybody's had a hard life, everybody's been cheated, all that stuff. But I said, I'll meet you in the parking lot with money. You can go away, you know. But, you know, I am tempted to send some beforehand because I just believe in your heart. But, you know, I worked hard all week, so I have just a relaxing night. I got a fireplace over here, a beautiful, beautiful room and house. I gotta clean it up in my room, but my back porch is a golf course. It's an unbelievable house. And there's. I don't have it on, but that's this fireplace and that's ring grant. And this is so cozy back here, baby. And with the fire on.
- [333:53]
Narrator/Commentator
So I just want to relax.
- [333:55]
Mike Winger
You know, I'm not a flip around. I think I'm not a sex phone. Okay, I'm pulling in. But I am long in that intimacy.
- [334:10]
Narrator/Commentator
It seems pretty obvious what's happening here is he's flashing money. He's trying to. Trying to seduce this woman, using himself in a mirror, but also money. She didn't like it. She sent this over to Michelle Seiler. That. That is something she actually posted online. She also posted a test of a girl who says that she was rape from Bob, as well as Bob's own board member exposing him, one of his previous board members. But that guy just ended up stepping down. Because it's always the same. The board members step down. They never actually publicly expose these guys. When they're predators and dangerous to others, you have to expose them publicly. That has to be the new rule. And I'm going to play the rest of the video here, but I'm not here saying Bob's quirky and weird or he has a raspy voice. I'm care about that. What we're saying here is Bob is looked at as a prophetic voice inside of Bethel. Even after the letter that went out, even up until Michelle Seidler went public, he still looked at as a prophetic voice. People view him that way, they see him that way. He's inviting people from Bethel over to his home for what? Paying them for this stuff. He's obviously done this numerous times. He goes, I've never had to pay just to get a response before for, oh, he's paid for other things, I guess, but not the response. Bethel could have, should have, didn't concern heart.
- [335:29]
Mike Winger
That's what I'm into. Yes. How do I turn this around? I don't know. But I need to hear from you And I need to hear, okay, I'll meet at this place, you know, and I'll send you the money for, you know, a little bit of travel. And then I just never had to pay for somebody to respond to me. And I just don't mind blessing somebody who have financial need and they just feel like I'm not paying for. Guess I don't know how to turn this around.
- [336:06]
Narrator/Commentator
I'm sorry.
- [336:08]
Mike Winger
I'm paying for intimacy. And I just want to bless you. So let me know how you feel.
- [336:14]
Narrator/Commentator
Let me know.
- [336:16]
Mike Winger
Okay, this is what it's going to cost. And I just. I pay for a lot of people in a lot of situations.
- [336:23]
Narrator/Commentator
I pay for a lot of people in a lot of situations.
- [336:31]
Mike Winger
So I just get to know. I'd also know that you want to Parker with bless the world. We're blessing which is an awesome world. You know, I can explain it to you later, but I don't spend much on me. I got a beautiful home and $13 million properties that are B and Bs that are unbelievable. I love to travel, but I do want to get my business in a place where it just flows and give up any healthy and be with somebody that understands, can write up wondrous things together. So respond to that and we'll see if something co tonight. Bye.
- [337:20]
Narrator/Commentator
When Mike Pickle was being accused by a number of women which was found by an investigation to be credible. Incredible stuff. Bad stuff. Bob Hartley was threatening people behind the scenes with litigation. All your dirty secrets are going to come out. We have the best lawyers. I am not here claiming this is important. I'm not here claiming that Bethel deliberately put Bob back in front of women who he would do this stuff to or people like that. But we do know that he routinely prophesied falsely, he faked prophecy. He'd look up people's information. His son has revealed this, and he says he even admitted to it, said that it was normal in the movement. And I'm believing that. I believe that Bethel didn't do the right thing. It's not that they did nothing. They didn't do the right thing. They sent out a letter at one point, which is I would say was probably just damage control. Then when people were asking him to go public, even Bob's son, hey, Bill, would you please do something? You've got to warn people that I think he's going to. My dad's probably going to get arrested or something. He's done some stuff that's pretty bad here. I think they didn't do anything There was private conversations that made it sound like actions would be taken, but in the end, nothing happened. And so they went public after they went public, after it went on social media, after it went on Facebook, then they came out with a letter announcing some stuff about Bob. It was only then because it was damage control and cover up culture, and it was not what it should have been. Bob Hartley is close to Bethel and close to Bill. After Bill's wife passed in 2022. Again, sadly, and I'm sorry for that, Bill, super tragic. But after that happened, Bob Hartley was the one who prophesied to him that God was going to give Bill a keturah, a second wife. And then Bill went and pursued a young woman from his church for a little while, and it ultimately fell apart. And then Bill posted on Instagram complaining about his church and suggesting that it was their fault for not embracing the adventure or something weird like that. So here. This is it. I'm going to end this video now. Here's the conclusion. Here's my final call, and I hope I can do this. My call to charismatic leaders is you have to call them all out. All of them. I know that there's leaders who have sin in their lives, and that doesn't always need to be exposed. Okay, it doesn't. But when you have people who are faking prophecy, I don't care who they are, they have to be called out publicly. And you may feel powerless, you may feel like you're nobody, but I'm telling you, there's a rising army of people who will come alongside and defend and support you. You just have to open your mouth and start saying what you know. I don't care if you're on staff at Bethel. You need to start speaking the truth. It doesn't matter if it's with Benny Hinn or you're with Jesus Image or you're with Morningstar. Just start speaking the truth. Because the one thing that is absolutely going to cleanse the church in the charismatic world is the truth. Rip the band Aid off, call them out. And we need to deliver people like Sean Bowles over to Satan, as scripture says. What I mean is excommunication. The guy should not be invited or welcomed into any church building until he publicly repents and confesses. And Sean Bowles, let me say, since I've targeted you so much in this video, here's a message to you personally, Sean. I will champion you if you repent, but your repentance has to have. There's one qualifier you have to tell us all the people you know about, all of them. If you openly say the truth about the people you know about who are faking things, who are manipulating things, and the stuff that you know behind the scenes, then we'll believe it's real. Otherwise, I just don't believe you. I just don't believe you. And I've talked to your victims, former employees. They care about you still, and they would rather see you repent. They just don't believe you. They don't trust you. Well, but that's what they would prefer. They care about you. They know you need help. They know you need help. You need counseling. You need real help. And I will open arms, lovingly embrace you, and encourage you if indeed you come broken. But until then, you are an enemy to the church, and you have to be kicked out. You have to be excommunicated from the body, from anybody, any group of Christians, because of your behaviors. And that is true of so many people. That's true about Hartley. So that's the rabbit hole, guys. That's the rabbit hole. Where the church can go from here is really simple, normal people holding fast to moral, truth and righteous standards, no matter who gets upset with them for it, no matter who gets irritated with them for it, where you simply won't let it go. And you'll realize that if you've been the victim of a fake prophet, you have a lot of power to tell the truth. You really do. And when you start thinking about all the other people he's going to continue to victimize for the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years, you realize you have a good reason to come forward and tell the truth. And a lot of us will support you. So I am sorry. I mean, part of me is really sorry to bring this video to you and make this video. I don't like this. I don't take pleasure in it. Man, I wish it could have been better. I reached out to Beth a long time ago and asked if I could talk to. To Chris or Danny about these situations, and they don't want to talk to me. I've talked to another leader at Bethel who's one I have not mentioned who you guys don't know. And I hope there's real change. I hope there's real reform. I do believe it can happen. But it would take such a change of the structure that you guys would be calling out your own foundations as false. That's what it's going to take. And I will champion you if you do that. For what it's worth, I mean, who am I. I'm just trying to be a voice for these people. This is dedicated to the victims of shamboles and this has been chasing him down the rabbit hole into the COVID up culture that is going on in the Charismatic church now, you know, and there's more coming. I'm not done yet. I want to be, but I have to share more. That's it. I want to pray before we go. Father God, we know that without your grace none of us would stand. We know that you want us to be a group of people who are not just enraged and angry, but who are reaching out with righteous hands of justice and mercy both. And so we pray for that. We pray that you'd help your church to respond like the church to these things. That we would root out wickedness and we would root out deceit and lies, but that we would also bring comfort and support and it wouldn't just be about destroying things, but it would be about rebuilding and establishing things. And we pray for that. I pray for the charismatic leaders now who are righteous, who stand in truth, who do not deceive, knowingly deceive anybody. And we pray that you would guide and direct them and you'd raise them up as new voices inside the Charismatic Church to be proper guides, to be those who gain the authority in the eyes of others so that they can create a new culture where, where there is goodness and righteousness in Jesus name, Amen. I actually just finished editing this video, spent the last couple days, probably 20 something hours editing the video and looking back over it. I don't want to end it where I did. I want to offer a word of encouragement. If you have been part of the Charismatic movement, if you have been under one of these teachers, even blessed by one of these, these teachers. Can I tell you something? That's okay. Be encouraged, try to take whatever good you've received and hold on to that. But you will have to go through a process that may take some time. I've talked to a bunch of people who've gone through this process and it's difficult, but there's light at the end of the tunnel. And that process involves sort of disentangling some of the stuff that you've experienced from your genuine Christian faith. And I want to encourage you that in Jeremiah's day there were so many fake false prophets. Now they weren't supposed to be at home in the church in that sense, in that analogy, but they were there. And there was still the real. And there has been around the world, there's been millions of false religions or however many false religions, yet there is one that is actually true. When Jesus came, there was one real Messiah. Even though there had been a lot of false messiahs. Jesus talked about how there could be tares amongst the wheat. We understand that we want our churches and our fellowships and our experience as Christians to be perfect. And it just often isn't the case. And that's okay. That's part of the real world and part of how we grow. And I would just want to encourage you in that. Don't overreact to these things and throw out the truth of Christ with the fake that you're confronting and dealing with and wrestling with and working through. We know that in the book of Revelation and First Corinthians that there were problems in the church, even significant problems in the church, and it was still real Christians that were there, but there were real problems that were there. I want to remind you of the gospel of Jesus Christ that God himself took on human form. Jesus came born of a virgin. He lived the perfect sinless life for us, did the thing that you and I have not done. All of us, if we were to be called out on every sin, we would all fail. We would all be completely fallen short of God's glory and destined for a judgment apart from God, the wrath of God. But Jesus took our sin upon himself on the cross. He died for you. He died for me. That we would just trust in him and receive salvation. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. And you know why I'm telling you these things that you have already heard and already know? Because you need to cling to the things that are true. True. And from there you work through the things that are false. And from there you disentangle the stuff that doesn't belong. So I just want to encourage you. Christ, he is not like these examples I've given today. He actually has verifiable prophetic fulfillment in his life, like real fulfillment of prophecy. And I've done a whole series of video. I've taken my same mentality and skeptical mind and I've examined the text of the Scriptures and I've examined the evidence for Christianity and the support there is for the resurrection of Jesus. And I mean fulfill prophecy, one of my favorite subjects in the world. It's so, so good. Christ is trustworthy. God is good. I want to read you a scripture that might encourage you. If this all is setting you into a time of sort of purification by fire, some difficulty, some challenges. Let me remind you of this, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary. You have been grieved by various trials so that the tested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. If this puts you into a tailspin, this is, I pray, a time of testing. Not a time of destruction, a time of purification. Because when fire comes, as this text in front of you says, when fire comes and tests gold, it brings the impurities to the top so that they can scrape them away. That's the dross. You get rid of that. That is the idea. And I'm praying that within the charismatic church and within your life individually that you find yourself more purified, more focused upon Christ, more genuine and real, but not, I hope, just cynical. I am still not cynical. I am. Yep. I'm very highly skeptical of specific patterns and specific habits and specific individuals. But I'm not cynical about the work of the Holy Spirit in the church, about the idea of God giving us something really special through a real move of the Holy Spirit or a revival or a prophecy or even tongues and those kinds of things. You don't have to discard the real because you're getting rid of the fake. But we do have to stop embracing the fake, thinking it's some pathway to the real that has to stop. So I hope that's some encouragement to you. I'm sorry for bringing you guys this video. I know that it's unpleasant, and I've spent the past year listening to victims and talking with people and gathering stuff. And I'm going to try to get it all out there. And then I want to move on to other things. I just want to steward well those stories and those individuals and the situations that have come my way. And I appreciate your prayers as I do that. Thank you.