These accusations are too big to ignore

Summary

BibleThinker with Mike Winger

Episode: “These accusations are too big to ignore”

Date: May 1, 2026

Overview

In this heavy and urgent episode, Mike Winger addresses serious public accusations made by Pastor Greg Locke against influential pastors Kenneth Copeland and Joel Osteen. Locke publicly accused both men of heinous crimes, including pedophilia and sex trafficking, claiming to have evidence, but never providing proof or reporting to authorities. Winger expresses concern about the gravity of such claims, the lack of accountability, and the need for transparency in the church, especially within charismatic circles. He urges the biblical imperative to protect the vulnerable and hold leaders accountable, whether the allegations are true or fabricated.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Allegations and Their Context

• Mike Winger opens by emphasizing the seriousness of the accusations, referencing claims Greg Locke made about Copeland and Osteen being pedophiles and sex traffickers.
• Locke maintained he had evidence for these claims, yet nothing substantive was ever produced or forwarded to law enforcement.
• Winger connects this issue to wider patterns of cover-up and a lack of healthy confrontation in certain segments of the charismatic church.

2. Scriptural Mandate and Accountability

• Winger bases his approach on biblical principles of defending the oppressed, especially children, and the need to confront sin openly (00:00).
• He stresses that leaders making such public accusations owe the truth to both the alleged victims and the accused.

3. Reviewing Greg Locke’s Statements

• Winger plays archival clips of Locke making the accusations:
  • Against Kenneth Copeland: Accuses him of being "full blown demon possessed" and "sex trafficking rapist" (01:29-02:17); claims possession of photographic evidence he’d present if sued (02:17-02:27).
  • Against Joel Osteen: Accuses him of being a "pedophile" and “that way with boys” (04:40), hurling further threats of exposure should anything happen to himself.
  • Locke expands the accusations to other public figures like Tom Hanks and Oprah (05:39-05:55).

4. Questions About Authenticity and Motives

• Winger notes the bombastic, aggressive style of Locke and the lack of follow-through, expressing skepticism but also insistence on taking every possible claim seriously for the sake of potential victims (05:55-06:53).
• He asks why, after making such inflammatory statements, Locke later deleted or removed much of the content and largely went silent on these accusations.

5. Lack of Evidence and Direct Communication

• Despite Locke's repeated insistence that he is in possession of damning evidence, he never produced anything and avoids engaging with those who press for proof—including Winger himself.
• Winger reached out multiple times and was met with evasive or dismissive responses (11:17).
  • Locke’s response: "Mike, I owe you zero information about anything. You're so hungry for more stories, you'll just keep on going no matter what. Even enjoy your life. Ride the fame. The rock will roll back upon you eventually." (11:17)
• Winger responds that while Locke doesn't owe him personally, he does owe it to the alleged victims and those he accused to either present the evidence or publicly repent.

6. Call for Resolution

• Winger strongly asserts that a public accusation of criminal, predatory behavior demands public accountability:
  • Either Locke presents credible evidence, or he should publicly repent for what would be "the most wild, insane lies" Winger has ever heard (00:00-00:32).
  • Winger offers to support Locke if he has real evidence, temporarily putting aside disputes for the sake of justice and the vulnerable (09:37-10:01).
• He concludes that the burden is on Locke to act—the ball is in his court (11:17–end).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the biblical purpose for confronting sin:

"Scripture tells us to raise our voice for the oppressed and for the afflicted and to defend people, especially children who are in need."
— Mike Winger (00:00)

Greg Locke's most inflammatory accusation:

"Full blown demon possessed Satan worshippers like Kenneth Copeland, the most powerful pastor in America. He's a demon and he's going to hell."
— Greg Locke (01:29)

"That blow down, sorry, sex trafficking rapist."
— Greg Locke (02:07)

"I'm sick of these demon worshiping pastors like Joel Osteen...Joel Osteen's that way with boys."
— Greg Locke (03:18; 04:40)

On accountability:

"The only way what he said there makes any sense is if he has evidence to prove the accusations he just made..."
— Mike Winger (05:03)

On leadership responsibility:

"As a leader and protector, you owe it to the victims to come forward with evidence if you have it, or you owe it to those men to apologize if you were lying."
— Mike Winger (11:17)

On offering Locke support if claims are real:

"If you want to go forward and you feel like you need someone in your corner and you have real evidence, I will absolutely support you in that."
— Mike Winger (09:37)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00-01:29: Introduction, framing the accusations and gravity
• 01:29-02:27: Greg Locke’s initial accusations and claim to have evidence
• 02:27-05:03: Analysis of Locke’s statements, Winger’s call for accountability
• 05:39-06:53: Expansion of accusations to other public figures, congregation reaction
• 07:00-09:11: More clips of Locke, Winger’s further analysis of character and change in posture
• 09:37-10:01: Winger’s offer to support Locke if he has evidence
• 11:14-11:17: Locke’s claim: “that dirty crook will not sue me; because he knows I’m telling the truth.”
• 11:17-end: Locke’s dismissive response to Winger’s request for evidence, Winger’s public challenge: produce evidence or repent

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Tone and Language

The episode is deeply serious and carries an urgent, moral weight. Winger refrains from sensationalism, staying biblically grounded, deliberate, and compassionate towards potential victims, while still being direct in calling for the truth and accountability from high-profile leaders.

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This summary provides a full picture for listeners who didn’t catch the episode: the nature of the accusations, the importance of handling them biblically, and Winger’s persistent, principled call for truth and justice—no matter where the evidence leads.

Transcript

[A]

This is not for entertainment. This is very serious stuff. I'm deeply concerned about what Greg Locke said about Joel Osteen and Kenneth Copeland and the fact that Greg Locke later went silent about it and may have even removed some of the evidence of what he said. He accuses them of being. PDF files. You're supposed to say on YouTube. I'm told of you know what and worse stuff as well, especially for Copeland. He says he has evidence of it and I've asked him to bring that evidence forth. I'll show you what he said in response to me later in the video. He seems reluctant to do so. I don't know what's going on for real, guys, but I'm trying to bring this into the public square because light disinfects and if there is something to these accusations, then they should be chased down. But also if Greg was lying, which would be the most wild, insane lies I've ever heard, if these are lies that he's telling, then he should be held accountable and he should publicly repent of those things. What's the truth of it? Well, somebody out there knows and I think we need to talk about it. So this is because I'm dealing with COVID up culture, especially in the charismatic church. And this is absolutely connected to that in some ways, some significant ways. This is the first clip where he's talking about mostly about Copeland, but he also mentions Joel Osteen. Listen to what he says. We're going to break it down a little bit because it is very significant. This is not entertainment. This is not for fun. This is because scripture tells us to raise our voice for the oppressed and for the afflicted and to defend people, especially children who are in need.

[B]

Full blown demon possessed Satan worshippers like Kenneth Copeland, the most powerful pastor in America. He's a demon and he's going to hell. And you tell him I said so. I'm about to kick his pulpit over and preach wide slam open tonight.

[A]

Now, some of you might disregard what he's about to say because you feel like he's yelling and he's obviously, I mean, he is the way he is. But listen to the specific details he gives about this. He's like, I have evidence, I have proof. And that really matters because one way or another there should be some kind of accountability for this.

[B]

That blow down, sorry, sex trafficking rapist.

[A]

Sex trafficking rapist. And then he'll add pedophile. This is about Kenneth Copeland.

[B]

He's talking, I wish to God he would take me to court. I wish to God, that demon would take me to court. I'll show the pictures I've got.

[A]

He says he has pictures. Picture. That's evidence, okay? He's saying, you can't take me to court because I have the proof. This was years ago. This was four or five years ago. It's difficult to tell because as far as I can tell, he's removed this video from. From his website or from his YouTube channel if it's there. I can't find it. Now. I could find the other clip. I'll show you in a second where he talks more about Osteen, but I couldn't find this one. And since then, since this has happened, Greg Locke has gone quiet in his criticisms of a lot of these guys. He said, oh, I had a bad season there, and I've repented of that. Now he's actually been coming against me a lot recently about me criticizing people. And you've got to wonder what is going on behind the scenes. He said he had the evidence. He. He should have brought it forward. He should have brought it to the police, to the FBI. He should have also done something to protect victims. Because if there is someone who's doing this stuff, they don't usually stop. There's probably more.

[B]

You ever send another dime to that lowdown, sorry pedophile, I pray God curses your finances. I'm sick of these demon worshiping pastors like Joel Osteen. Look, I'm. I'm just gonna say it tonight. I don't care what the news media says. Charlotte ain't gonna sue Greg like I wished you would. Dude's worth so many millions of dollars, it's ridiculous. Why don't they sue the hillbilly preacher? I'll tell you why. Because he knows I'm right. We'll call them all out. When I have to, you say, oh, my goodness. You mean to tell me that Joel Osteen.

[A]

What he's about to say again, this is the kind of thing that if you have this sort of knowledge and you can prove it as he's saying, he can, which is why he's like, oh, take me to court. I dare you to. But this is not a game, Greg Locke. This is not a game. You go public with this or you take it to the authorities. And if that doesn't work, or if you're not able to navigate it that way, then you just go public with it. That's what you do. That's how you protect people. Now, is it true? I don't know. Greg Locke has been caught in all kinds of stuff in the past and the things that make you question his character. But he's laid down the gauntlet. And one way or another, either he should be held accountable or they should be held accountable. It's one or the other.

[B]

He's that way with women. No, I'm here to tell you Joel Hstein's that way with boys. By the way, you ever heard of a dead man's witch? Well, just in case they come and try to suicide me, I got one of them. Let him chase me down, huh? It'll all go on the Internet.

[A]

The only way what he said there makes any sense is if he has evidence to prove the accusations he just made, that Copeland is a rapist, sex trafficker, pedophile, and that Osteen is a pedophile, and he has evidence and proof of it. Little boys is the phrase he used. And now he's saying he has a kill switch, you know, and then everything will go out there. Now, is that him lying? I don't know. I've asked him. He will not talk to me. I'll show you what he said to me on Twitter, and it's really. It's not good. I'll show you that in a second. But there's going to be more. I want to show you what else he said about Osteen in the second clip.

[B]

I'll play for you today every last drop of it. Tom Hanks, Oprah, and all them pedophiles. Okay?

[A]

Now, there's obvious reason to question whether what he's saying is true. I don't know if it's true or not, but at least to question it. You know, he's bombastic, he exaggerates. He's been caught in some questionable stuff in the past. And you can look into that for yourself if you want to, including marital issues of whatever. I'm not going to get into all that stuff. But it has to do with his qualifications to even be in a position he's in now. Now, why did he go quiet on these things? That's the big question. I'm going to come back to that after I play this next clip for you. This is him talking more about Joel Osteen. And again, someone should be held accountable for this stuff. And because I think that it might have merit and because it sat dormant for years. Nothing has happened on these things for years, which means that if it is true, there could be real world victims really suffering. And the stuff that I've learned over the past year and a half or whatever, has blown my mind. And I know that you shouldn't just ignore these things. They should be chased down to see what the truth of them is.

[B]

You mark my word. God's going to expose everyone. These suckers, everyone, these devils, God's going to expose them all.

[A]

This is him from December 8, 2021. That's when this is. And that this sermon is actually still on his website and it's still on his YouTube channel. I cannot find the Copeland one. That one I can't find anywhere. Although it was. It was from the same pulpit, I believe, because he has this, like, wooden, unique pulpit. Anyway, you can try to figure out that. I spent plenty of time looking for it. Couldn't find it anywhere. Looks like he removed it.

[B]

So look, so don't put me on the pedestal, okay? But they ain't gonna come arrest me for none of that nonsense. But I just want to say this. Be careful who you listen to, who you read and who you watch, because some of your heroes are going to jail. And I'll go one step further. Some of your heroes are going to hell.

[A]

Now, he's going to talk about Joel Osteen specifically in a second. You can tell he's sort of deciding in the moment if he's going to mention names or not. At least that's what it looks like.

[B]

Some of your preaching heroes are going to hell. They've never been born again a day in their life. They are hirelings. They are crooks. And I'm telling you, they are going to drag them out of their pulpits kicking and screaming in handcuffs. And you tell Joel Osteen I said so because he's one of them. He's a.

[A]

Now he's going to say it again. He's a what? Listen to this accusation. This is huge. This is significant. This is about criminal behavior. It's also about harming children. All right? Is it true? I'm not saying for a second that it's true. I just don't know. But, Greg Locke, the spotlight is on you. You brought it up. You say you have the evidence. You need to come forward with it. You need to go and deal with. Do something with this, because it's absolutely inappropriate. Now, I've asked you to talk to me about this, and you said you owe me nothing. I'll show the tweet where he responded to me. So that's why I'm gonna go public with it, to create pressure that do the right thing.

[B]

Pedophile and a crooked. Everybody knows it. And I don't care how Mad you get.

[A]

Everybody knows it. Like, okay, I don't know it, but I knew this, that when I found out about Sean Bulls, I then dug deeper into Sean Bulls and found out that everybody didn't know it. If you mean by everybody, you mean the leadership, the elites, the people who get to be informed and know everything that's going on. Just the very top tier of those who are the sort of the power brokers in the movement. Are there people who know stuff I don't? If I knew it, I go forward. I wouldn't sit on it for years if I knew something like that.

[B]

You believe anytime you want to. Joel Osteen belongs in prison. And if that makes you nervous, you can go to First Baptist or Joy or any other church in this town. Huh? I'm telling you, you mark my word, right, I'll step down as your pastor if it ain't true. I'm telling you right now, I'll stop preaching if what I'm telling you is not true.

[A]

This is a great deal because it's just either he steps down or, or it's true and we expose somebody for doing something. It's a win win. Okay? So I, I, I jest somewhat, but there's a lot more that could be said about Greg Locke. I don't want to do a whole devoted video to Greg Locke. I have no desire to do that. He's been beefing with me on Twitter a little bit because he's upset that I'm exposing people, exposing Todd Wyatt, exposing Benny Hinn, people he used to complain about, and now he's on their side. What changed, Greg? What changed? You say in the past that you have evidence that these people in particular, these two names you mentioned, are doing these horrible, illegal, immoral things that every alarm bell should be going off as loud as possible and they should be arrested and put in prison years ago based on the evidence you say you have. Then you switch to defending people, then you're defending them. You're not saying bad things about them, negative things about them. And you're criticizing people like me who are helping to expose what is going on behind the scenes. You. Yes, it's extremely suspicious. Yes, the spotlight's on you. But I'll give you a deal, Greg. If you want to go forward and you feel like you need someone in your corner and you have real evidence, I will absolutely support you in that. I'd set aside any sort of disagreements we've had, any sort of name calling and lies you've told about me publicly that he has on multiple occasions on Twitter and stuff. He just says the craziest stuff. I don't think hardly anybody believes it, but he says things. So, yeah, it's win, win. Either Greg is accountable for besmirching these men's names and accusing them of horrendous things, or these men are accountable for doing horrendous things. Greg says he has the evidence. He should bring it forward. Let me play the rest of this clip, then I'll show you what he said to me on Twitter.

[B]

And you know why that dirty crook will not sue me? Because he knows I'm telling the truth.

[A]

I have the evidence, I have the proof. I have all of the stuff I need to demonstrate it, and that's why they won't mess with me. It's the same thing he said previously about Copeland. Now he says it here about Osteen. Now, this is what he finally said when I got him to actually respond to me on Twitter. I'll put it on your screen right now. I had asked him multiple times, and the weird thing is that as you read this, what's on your screen here, he would reply to other people on X. He'd reply to what they said to me, and he would reply to them, go back and forth. But he wouldn't reply to me. My repeated request to say, hey, you've got this evidence, but please produce it. What's going on with that stuff? Finally, he responds and says to me, mike, I owe you zero information about anything. You're so hungry for more stories, you'll just keep on going no matter what. Even enjoy your life. Ride the fame. The rock will roll back upon you eventually. So this has to do with just basically accusing me of being. I'm doing this all for whatever. I had plenty of following anyway. I'm not gonna defend myself. Who cares if my motive was just totally carnal and I just wanted to increase the awareness of my. Of my face knowing my name. And that was my whole motive. It wouldn't change the fact that we have to protect children from predators. It would have nothing to do with that. So my response to Greg was the following. Because I'm trying to handle this properly to the best of my ability. Anyways, I agree with him. You owe me nothing. That is true. However, as a leader and protector, you owe it to the victims to come forward with evidence if you have it, or you owe it to those men to apologize if you were lying. It's a very simple, straightforward thing. So, Greg Locke, the ball is in your court. Produce the evidence, go forward with it, or admit that you lied. But it's been years. It's been years. And so by calling stuff out and making it loud, you might be able to help produce a real case, get the FBI actually interested, and then get witnesses to come forward, because they'll feel like there's something that's actually going to happen, and then we can actually put a stop to evil men in high places. Or maybe, I don't know, maybe you joined them. Or maybe you just made the whole thing up because you just sensationalized and lie about people the way that you've sensationalized and lied about me. The ball's in your court, Greg. Locked up.