Big Ideas Lab - Episode: "Roads to Removal"

Release Date: January 7, 2025
Host: Mission.org

Episode Overview

In the "Roads to Removal" episode of Big Ideas Lab, hosted by David Lee from Mission.org, listeners are immersed in Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's pivotal Roads to Removal Report. This episode explores the escalating climate crisis, the imperative for carbon dioxide removal (CDR), and the innovative pathways proposed to achieve significant carbon reduction across diverse regions in the United States. Through expert insights and collaborative discussions, the episode underscores the urgency and multifaceted strategies required to combat climate change effectively.

1. The Escalating Climate Crisis

Dr. Emily Carter opens the discussion by highlighting recent extreme weather events that signal a worsening climate crisis:

"In 2019, the world watched as one of the worst wildfires in Australian history ripped across the continent... More than 240,000 sq kilometers were completely destroyed."
(00:07)

She contextualizes these events within a broader trend of increasingly frequent and severe natural disasters, emphasizing the global urgency for climate action.

Meg Johnson adds:

"We've recognized the really serious changes in our climate which are causing dramatic weather changes and changes in the way diseases are spread. So we need to remove that CO₂."
(06:51)

2. Understanding the Greenhouse Effect and Carbon Emissions

Dr. Emily Carter explains the natural greenhouse effect and how human activities exacerbate it:

"The greenhouse effect is a natural process where certain gases in Earth's atmosphere... trap heat from the sun... Human activities like burning fossil fuels increase the concentration of these gases, leading to more heat being trapped and contributing to global warming."
(06:09)

Jennifer Petridge further elaborates on the origins of increased carbon emissions:

"Past century or so, we have released an enormous amount of greenhouse gases... largely because of burning fossil fuels."
(05:39)

3. The Imperative for Carbon Dioxide Removal (CDR)

While reducing emissions is crucial, Dr. Carter emphasizes the need for CDR to address the remaining atmospheric CO₂:

"The most critical step is reducing emissions at their source, often called decarbonizing... For that last 10%, mopping up the CO₂ already in the atmosphere... carbon dioxide removal becomes essential."
(07:07 – 07:33)

4. Introducing the Roads to Removal Report

Jennifer Petridge introduces the Roads to Removal Report, highlighting its comprehensive and collaborative nature:

"The Roads to Removal Report is an in-depth assessment of carbon removal potential in the U.S., built by 68 researchers across 13 academic institutions."
(08:13)

Simon Pang elaborates on the report's objectives:

"The report is a county-level analysis across the United States of the different carbon dioxide removal pathways available... what can we remove and at what cost."
(08:44 – 09:00)

5. Four Primary Carbon Removal Pathways

The report explores four distinct CDR methods, each tailored to specific regional strengths and resources:

a. Forest Management

Meg Johnson discusses the significance of leveraging forests for carbon capture:

"Forests are very good at capturing carbon... they store it in the stem of the tree."
(12:51 – 13:17)

Regional Application:

• New England: Focus on thinning to enhance forest health and prevent wildfires.
• Western U.S.: Dramatic thinning to reduce fire risk and increase carbon sequestration.
• Southeast U.S.: High-rotation forestry akin to agricultural practices, producing long-lasting timber products.

b. Cropland Soils

Dr. Carter emphasizes the potential of agricultural lands:

"Soils hold an enormous amount of carbon, more than the total amount in the atmosphere and all living things combined."
(15:47 – 16:00)

Meg Johnson explains the approach:

"We're interested in how much carbon can we get into the soil. Our soils have lost something on the order of 500 billion tons of carbon in the past hundred years."
(16:00 – 16:34)

c. Biomass Capture, Removal, and Storage (BiKERs)

Meg Johnson introduces BiKERs:

"We're taking biomass... converting it to hydrogen and capturing the CO₂ for underground storage."
(16:42 – 19:07)

Process Overview:

1. Collection: Biomass residues are gathered from municipalities and agricultural operations.
2. Conversion: Biomass is converted into hydrogen, releasing CO₂.
3. Capture & Storage: CO₂ is captured and injected underground for long-term storage.

d. Direct Air Capture with Storage (DACS)

Meg Johnson describes DACS technology:

"It's almost like a giant vacuum cleaner... pulling in carbon dioxide from the atmosphere."
(17:56 – 18:24)

Process Steps:

1. Air Intake: Massive fans draw in air.
2. CO₂ Capture: CO₂ molecules are absorbed by chemical or solid materials.
3. Desorption: Heat is applied to release concentrated CO₂ for storage.

6. Challenges and Community Impact

Kimberly Mayfield highlights the importance of integrating environmental justice:

"Ensuring that environmental justice and impact on communities were included in the analysis."
(10:43 – 11:01)

Officer Smith discusses the complexity of data collection and community engagement:

"Compiling all of the potential variables together... required listening at different community engagement meetings to uncover unforeseen factors."
(11:01 – 11:43)

Key Considerations:

• Economic and Social Impact: Avoiding exacerbation of existing economic pressures on small, minority-owned farms.
• Data Accessibility: Overcoming proprietary barriers to access high-quality data for accurate analysis.

7. Regional Opportunities and Applications

Simon Pang and Officer Smith detail regional suitability for each CDR method:

• Wyoming & North Dakota: Optimal for DACS and geologic storage due to abundant clean energy potential and skilled workforces.

  "They have a lot of counties that scored quite low on the Social Vulnerability Index... high abundance of skilled, underemployed energy workforces."
  (30:37 – 30:32)

• Oklahoma: Ideal for BiKERs, transforming agricultural residues into economic and environmental benefits.

  "By creating a centralized location for agricultural residues, we avoid air pollution and sequester carbon."
  (30:37 – 31:11)

• Southern Oregon & Northern California: Prime regions for wildfire mitigation through strategic forest management.

  "Protecting its forests showed up quite highly in our triple EJ index values."
  (28:35 – 29:20)

8. Economic Benefits and Job Creation

Meg Johnson projects significant economic opportunities:

"We calculated 440,000 new jobs in this country could come out of these industries."
(31:23 – 31:52)

Benefits Highlighted:

• Job Creation: Opportunities across agriculture, energy, construction, and engineering sectors.
• Economic Revitalization: Providing new avenues for regions affected by declining fossil fuel industries.
• Environmental Co-Benefits: Cleaner air, healthier soils, and sustainable energy solutions.

9. Policy, Investment, and Future Directions

Dr. Emily Carter and Officer Smith advocate for substantial investment and policy support:

"Investing in large-scale carbon removal comes with a $139 billion price tag... represents only a small percentage of the total US GDP."
(35:20 – 35:58)

Strategic Imperatives:

• Policy Support: Enacting strong policies to facilitate carbon removal initiatives.
• Community Engagement: Ensuring local communities are involved and benefit from CDR projects.
• Global Collaboration: Extending efforts beyond national borders for a cohesive global response.

Simon Pang expresses optimism rooted in public support for environmental health:

"There's a base public support for having a healthier environment where humanity can coexist with everything else. That keeps me optimistic."
(35:58 – 36:15)

10. Conclusion and Call to Action

Dr. Emily Carter emphasizes collective responsibility:

"The solutions in the Roads to Removal Report aren't just for governments or corporations. They're for all of us, farmers, business leaders, workers, and citizens."
(34:14 – 36:37)

Jennifer Petridge announces upcoming symposia to bridge national lab solutions with community needs:

"Through a series of symposia, we aim to highlight the opportunities in carbon dioxide removal for regions that may not typically engage with national labs."
(34:38 – 34:45)

Officer Smith underscores the abundance of resources and the necessity for global effort:

"We have tons of direct air capture with geologic carbon storage for everybody. But it requires a concerted effort not just for your county, not for your state, not for our country, but also across the planet."
(34:06 – 35:20)

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Emily Carter [00:28]:
  "Once in a lifetime events are becoming common."

• Meg Johnson [06:51]:
  "We need to remove that CO₂."

• Officer Smith [10:43]:
  "Listening at different community engagement meetings is crucial because you hear about things you didn't even think about."

• Jennifer Petridge [25:44]:
  "The Roads to Removal Report shifts the focus towards solutions, offering opportunities for carbon removal across the entire country."

• Meg Johnson [31:23]:
  "We calculated 440,000 new jobs in this country could come out of these industries."

• Simon Pang [35:58]:
  "There's a base public support for having a healthier environment where humanity can coexist with everything else. That keeps me optimistic."

• Dr. Emily Carter [36:15]:
  "Every region has a story. Every region has an opportunity."

Final Thoughts

The "Roads to Removal" episode of Big Ideas Lab presents a comprehensive and actionable roadmap for carbon dioxide removal in the United States. By leveraging regional strengths, fostering collaboration across diverse sectors, and prioritizing environmental justice, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's report offers a beacon of hope amidst the escalating climate crisis. The episode calls for unified action, strategic investment, and community engagement to build a sustainable and resilient future.

For more information, access the full Roads to Removal Report and interactive maps at roadstoremoval.org.