"The Hatman" w/ Matt Roller

Summary

Podcast Summary – Bigfoot Collectors Club

Episode: "The Hatman" w/ Matt Roller

Host: Wood Elf Media
Date: September 17, 2025

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Main Theme & Episode Overview

The episode features hosts Michael McMillian and Riley Bray in conversation with television writer and showrunner Matt Roller. They dive into Matt's experiences with the paranormal, discuss his new Netflix animated series Haunted Hotel, explore the lore of shadow entities—especially "The Hatman"—and exchange personal stories of high strangeness. The episode is a blend of humor, deep dives into folklore, creative insights, and genuinely chilling encounters.

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Episode Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Introducing Matt Roller & Haunted Hotel Series

[02:28]–[13:23]

• About Matt: Writer for Rick and Morty, Archer, Community; creator of Haunted Hotel (Netflix show launching Sept 19).
• Show Premise: Adult animated comedy; imagine Bob’s Burgers meets every haunted/possessed/monster-infested hotel trope.
• Creative Process:
  • Show is “comedy about horror, not horror-comedy.”
  • Loaded with Easter eggs and visual references—scenery pulls from classic horror movies (e.g., Poltergeist chairs, Hereditary wallpaper, House of the Devil couch).
  • Fun visual gags and “pause moments” for sharp-eyed viewers to spot paranormal creatures and objects.
• Notable Cast: Will Forte, Eliza Coupe, Jimmy Simpson, Skyler Gisondo, Natalie Palamides.

“If you wanted to be super simplistic, it would be like plopping the Bob's Burgers family into a haunted hotel.”
—Matt Roller [05:41]

2. UFO & UAP Congressional News

[13:33]–[19:46]

• Hosts discuss recent UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) hearings in Congress.
• A new military video: an orb survives a direct missile hit—sparks debate and conspiracy.
• Matt expresses growing intrigue with UFOs post-2017 New York Times report; leans toward extraterrestrial or simulation explanation.

"It was a real existential crisis day for me... I was just fully in, like, oh, man, there's something here and it's visiting us."
—Matt Roller [17:09]

3. Matt Roller's Paranormal History

[23:43]–[41:22]

Haunted Encounters:

• New Orleans Hotel (The Omni Royale):

  • Saw a "three-dimensional shadow" in the room; another "gollum-like" shadow above the curtains—one benign, one radiating malice.
  • The shadow would disappear when illuminated, but reappear and drift toward the bed in darkness.
  • Wife, hoping to see a ghost, was shaken when she missed the actual encounter.

• Sherman Oaks Farmhouse:

  • Sensed an eerie energy at the top of the stairs; pets unsettled.
  • After respectfully “announcing” his new residency to any spirits, experienced acknowledgement: a window (propped open) slammed shut. Days later, saw the apparition of an old woman sitting at the foot of his bed.

• Paramount Lot Ghost (Community Writers Room):

  • Daytime sighting of a gray-faced little boy, peering from a window lattice; seemingly not physically possible for a normal person.
  • On research, found historical child deaths tied to the spot.

"They all took different forms... one three-dimensional shadow, one basically kind of a person with color, and then this gray figure."
—Matt Roller [47:00]

4. "Believe It or Bullshit" Paranormal Rapid Fire

[49:47]–[54:51]

• Matt says “Believe it” to ghosts, UFOs, Mothman, ESP, Chupacabra, among others—but “Bullshit” to modern Bigfoot (“feels like propaganda, marketing”).
• He’s open to pre-20th-century Sasquatch legends.

"Some of these more popular ones, it feels like it's based in marketing more than actual sightings."
—Matt Roller [52:29]

5. High Strangeness: The Hatman

[56:39]–[81:20]

• Michael presents the story and lore of The Hatman: a shadowy entity with a wide-brimmed hat, often seen during sleep paralysis.
• Origin & Folklore:
  • Experiences with "shadow people" and “sleep paralysis demons” span global cultures (incubus, succubus, ‘the old hag’).
  • Accounts often include feelings of dread, paralysis, malign presence, and tales of life disturbance.
  • Scientific explanations: hypnagogic/hypnopompic hallucinations during sleep paralysis.
• Reddit anecdotes: Notably, one person saw the Hatman carrying a stack of board games, wordlessly asking to be let out of a room.
• Matt’s takes: Hatman is a great “background ghost” for the show; humor in the idea of shadow entities with accessories; suggesting maybe Hatman is an "interdimensional pervert"—the classic weirdo of his dimension.
• Connections are drawn to lore like the Men in Black and the notion that mass belief can give entities new power or form (tulpa/aggregror theory).

"The more we were talking about him, I have a working theory of interdimensional pervert."
—Matt Roller [79:27]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative inspiration:
  “It was fun to do our own [slasher episode] that’s kind of a comedy, but also embraces… a real killer, trying to kill them in this hotel.”
  —Matt Roller [06:57]

• On visual Easter eggs:
  “Most of it’s foundational, and then you find other opportunities as you go along ... Like Annie from Misery. Her sledgehammer. It’s just a sledgehammer. Like, you wouldn’t recognize it in a vacuum. But if you put the sledgehammer next to a machete... you’re like, ‘Oh, the tools of 10 different murderers are just the background of this shed.’”
  —Matt Roller [11:22]

• On shadow entity experience:
  "When I sit down in bed, I see at the foot of the bed and another like five feet beyond against the wall, this, like, three dimensional shadow. And it's just standing there... I shine my phone flashlight on it, and it goes away. Nothing there. But when I put the flashlight down, it's back and it starts drifting toward the bed."
  —Matt Roller [27:51]

• On The Hatman and sleep paralysis:
  “The hat man is a shadow entity seen at night when you were trying to fall asleep or have just woken up. Categorized by some as a common sleep paralysis demon, the Hatman is a walking silhouette that seems to appear and disappear at will, leaving his victims terrified in their beds.”
  —Michael McMillian [58:51]

• Best new theory:
  "Pro. I like it. I have a working theory of interdimensional pervert. That there's other things there and none of them think to bother us. He's the guy. He's. He's got his cool hat that no one else has. No one thinks it works."
  —Matt Roller [79:27]

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Section Timestamps for Reference

• [01:18] — Welcome, show intro, joke about "dustologists"
• [02:28] — Matt Roller introduction; Haunted Hotel overview
• [05:41–13:23] — Haunted Hotel deep dive: origins, creative process, cast, and in-show Easter eggs
• [13:33] — Paranormal/UFO news, recent UAP Congressional hearings
• [23:43–41:22] — Matt Roller’s personal ghost stories (NOLA hotel, Sherman Oaks farmhouse, Paramount Lot)
• [49:47]–[54:51] — "Believe It or Bullshit?" paranormal rapid-fire game
• [56:39] — High Strangeness: The Hatman—origin, lore, and listener anecdotes
• [70:21] — Discussion of scientific explanation vs. folklore (sleep paralysis, hallucinations)
• [76:44] — Most unusual Hatman account: shadow figure bearing board games
• [79:27] — Interdimensional pervert theory—Hatman as the pervy outlier of the shadow people world

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Final Thoughts & Closing

• Matt encourages everyone to watch Haunted Hotel (launching on Netflix Sept 19) and to give it a “double thumbs up” for the Netflix algorithm.
• The hosts praise Matt’s storytelling, open-minded skepticism, and the show’s multi-layered fun.
• The Hatman is left as a compelling modern myth that straddles folklore, psychology, and the paranormal.

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For the Paranormal, Pop Culture, and Creative Comedy Lover:

This episode balances chills, laughs, and geek-out-worthy horror media references, ideal for fans interested in the weirder side of the unknown and the art inspired by it.

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Listen for:

• Personal ghost encounter breakdowns
• Horror-comedy show production secrets
• The definitive take on The Hatman lore
• The best one-liner regarding shadow people:
  “Interdimensional pervert.” —Matt Roller

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[B]

It's Bigfoot Collectors Club with Michael and Rob Riling. I know a story of highest rangness or two.

[C]

Let's do this.

[A]

It's always. It's imposing to start. Start a show with crickets. Yeah, you know what I mean? You're like, clearly there's nobody, nobody in the audience for this one until you're listening to it at home. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Bigfoot Collectors Club, the show where we talk to amazing guests about their personal paranormal history and share stories of high strangeness. I'm your host, Michael McMillan, and with me always is the transcendent virtuoso Pleiadian.

[C]

Wow. Riley Bray. Good one.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

Yeah. That was submitted on the BCC Discord by Weird Marle. I'll take it. Thanks for watching. Who also trolled me pretty hard on the Discord because I'm gonna just. We'll bring in our guests in a second, but I don't want to pretend he's not sitting here. We were actually at a haunted hotel a few weeks ago and our buddy Steve Berg thought maybe he got orbs. We were like, maybe it's dust. And the marl was like, that's dust. And I was like, oh, where'd you get your dustology degree? And then she made a dustology degree and printed it on the discord just to troll me. So there you go.

[C]

There you go.

[A]

Congrats on your. Congrats on your day.

[C]

Got one up by a dustologist.

[A]

Quick. Club housekeeping. Starting this week, we have a brand new old piece of merch coming back to the shop. It is the little friends of Printmaking Old school BCC logo A lot of requests for that. I'm going to come back some newer listeners who never got it back in the day. So that's going to be up there. Link in the show notes. So that's all. Let's get to the reason that we're here. Our guest this week is a television writer who has worked on some classic shows like Rick and Morty Archer, Community. He's the creator of a hilarious new animated series. Dropping this Friday as you're listening to the show. So that's What? Friday the 19th, I believe of September on Netflix and Club Scouts. It's called Haunted Hotel. Come on, you're gonna wanna watch it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Club Scouts of all timelines, please welcome to the Clubhouse, Matt Roller. Matt, thank you for being here, my friend.

[B]

Thank you for having me. Happy to be here. I'll also add, I've written many unproduced screenplays.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Many things that did not get made.

[A]

Many classic, unmade, underdeveloped, overdeveloped, forgotten animation. Yeah.

[B]

Sequels. All sorts of fun things.

[A]

That's all the stuff that I've ever written. Out of the few things that I've written, nobody's seen them yet.

[B]

I think I can say this because it's. It's. It's got to be fully dead. But I wrote not my idea, but was brought in to develop it. It was a haunted hotel comedy around NBA All Star weekend at the Skirvin Hotel, which is famously haunted hotel. Oh my God. And they were going to incorporate a lot of real NBA players into it, like the TNT crew. And everything about it was like a little fraught and challenging to execute. But it had a great title. Jump Scare. It's good. It's a good title.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everything else about it sold in the room though, right?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Not my title either. I just. That. That like, that sold me on working on it.

[C]

I'm in.

[A]

Sounds very. Harlem Globetrotters, meet Scooby Doo. In. In a good way. In a good way.

[B]

It was. It was.

[A]

Well, tell us about Haunted Hotel. Now. I've had the privilege of seeing the first couple episodes, got a little sneak peek and I gotta say, this is tailor made for our audience. Lots of. I appreciate already this far into the series how many like little winks to the lore and to things that are fun, like, like un. Un. Unused concepts for the Haunted Mansion becoming characters in this show with the Candle man and stuff like that. So there's lots of really cool nods to not just paranormal stuff, but other haunted things as well. It's a great show. But What? Tell us about it. Give it. Let everybody know what it is and tell us about your inspiration. Why did you end up writing this show? Coming up with the show.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, to give you the context up top. Like, what is this show? It's, it's an adult animated comedy. I'd put it somewhere between like Bob's Burgers and Rick and Morty and it's about a family trying to run a haunted but also possessed and cursed and monster stocked and unsuccessful hotel. It's kind of a catch all. Like haunted is a misnomer because the point of this show as kind of like a comedy and story vehicle was to be able to mine any horror we wanted. And I, I say to like broader non horror audiences because I don't want to scare them off. It's not a horror comedy. It's a comedy about horror. So it's, it's definitely like, it's comedy first. It's kind of. If you wanted to be super simplistic, it would be like plopping the Bob's Burgers family into like a haunted hotel. That's kind of the general vibe of it. But we really lean into our influences. You know, there are episodes with Exorcist and Possession. There are cults. There are Gremlin adjacent things. I'd say with everything, like we're not going one to one. We're not going for like a Family Guy parody of the thing. We're not going for more an earnest embrace of the type of thing.

[C]

Awesome.

[B]

And you haven't gotten to it yet. I think it's the next episode. They got a little bit reshuffled post production, but we do a slasher episode and it's very much inspired by Halloween, Friday the 13th and a bunch of others. And it was fun to do our own version that's kind of a comedy, but also embraces. It is a real killer. He is trying to kill them in this hotel.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And what else can I say? Oh, well, I'll give you two things. One is the cast. It's Will Forte. Will Forte is great. Eliza Coop, who's on Happy Endings and a bunch of other stuff. Jimmy Simpson from Westworld, also a McPoil in Always Sunny, Skyler Gisondo, Justin Superman, and Natalie Palmitas, who has been in a bunch of stuff.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

And you've definitely seen her in progressive commercials. Yes, that's, that's where I've seen her the most, obviously. But she, she, she's so talented. Has a great show on Netflix that she does. Nate, I think it's called. Yeah, but two, the thing I wanted to say because. Fun to talk about with you guys. The show is jammed with Easter eggs. And it was just because, like, we can, you know, and some of them are obvious in terms of, like, shot choices. We do a very obvious. Like, here's Benny with like, you know, and then he pokes his head through the door that he chopped a hole in with. Right. A skate. That's like the low hanging fruit. Obvious one. But in terms of populating the hotel, you know, we got to fill this thing with chairs and art and wallpaper. And at every step, I was like, well, let's pull something from a movie so you can see it in the trailer right now. But like the. The wooden chairs in the kitchen are modeled after the chairs from Poltergeist. They get stacked on the table.

[A]

Oh, totally. Yeah.

[B]

It's just. It's the exact same chairs. And you don't need to know that to watch the show. But sure, it's full of stuff like that.

[A]

We.

[B]

We took the wallpaper from Hereditary and made it into a carpet. Again, I'm not saying it's iconic wallpaper, but it's distinct. If you are watching Hereditary, I. It's not what I expect people to catch, but we took the doc from Friday the 13th. We took. Oh, I love this. Yeah, the Thai west one where it's the. The woman thinks she's babysitting someone.

[A]

Oh, the. It's not Night of the Devil. It's. God damn it. I know the name.

[B]

I always heard of the name. But that old couple lives in, you know, a nice old house with a lot of antique furniture.

[A]

Is it House of the Devil? Is that what it's called? The House of the Devil?

[B]

It might be the House of the Devil. Yeah. One of the couches that just has like a kind of nice curve to it. And we had to fill this hotel with couches and, well, let's use that couch.

[A]

So is there like a day when you guys are like, let's just pull up any visual reference and put it from the. You know, like, how does that work in the room? Or how does that work in production where you're just like, okay, let's make sure we've got all this stuff that we found you.

[B]

You start with a foundation of that, because kind of in tandem with writing every episode after the pilot, like, while the room is going, the visual development is happening at the same time, at least for a season one show. So we're figuring out what is the style of the show and then within that style, what does everything look like? And so as we were going into that, I was rewatching all my favorite horror movies and just, like, so cool. Taking screenshots of, like, oh, that's a pretty distinct lamp. That's interesting wallpaper. I love the orphanage Bayona, you know, and there's a really distinct piece of stained glass above the door that is not really important to the movie at all, but I've noticed it in the past, and so I crammed that in there.

[A]

So cool.

[B]

So most of it's foundational, and then you find other opportunities as you go along. Like, there was a point where the characters run into an old woodshed out back, and, and we needed to populate the shed. And we've got artists who, like, they just do that sort of thing. And this would happen in any show. You'd just be like, interior garden shed. And they would put the stuff that should go in that shed. And when I saw their, their first sketch of that, I was thinking, oh, there'd be a lot of cool garden tools in here. We could put a bunch of, like, iconic horror weapons.

[A]

Yeah, Like Freddy's glove and that kind of stuff. Gotta, you know, all those sorts of things.

[B]

And it was a cool place to put the ones that are not really iconic on their own. Like Annie from Misery. Like, her sledgehammer. It's just a sledgehammer. Like, you wouldn't recognize it in a vacuum. But if you put the sledgehammer next to a scythe, next to a machete, next to, like, all those tools that, like, maybe on their own don't read, but all together you're like, oh, the tools of, like, 10 different murderers are just the background of this shed. And it's not part of the plot. It's just a fun, fun little detail.

[C]

It's like a richly layered croissant. It's just like every little.

[B]

Totally. I hope so.

[A]

I love too. There's just also, like, pause moments in the show that I love. Like, there will be, like, quick pans upstairs and you'll pass through the floorboards and you'll be like, wait, there's a little creature there. I gotta stop and see what creatures in there. You know, like, at one point, I think I saw the, like, Beetlejuice snake go by. You know, there's like, little things where you're like, oh, I, I, I'm gonna this. They're not coming back to this shot. So if I don't Pause now and catch it. I'm gonna miss what this thing is. So it's really fun.

[B]

And that's what's great with animation, because you don't. You know, I could say it was my plan all along. But a lot of those things, like, you know, in script, we're like. And then we rise up to the attic from the shot in the lobby and we go through a few rooms, and once we see that shot, we realize, like, it's a little bit boring just because of, you know, how long it takes to rise up. Like, what else can we cram in there? And that's where, like, well, space between the floors comes in, for example. But yeah, it's a lot of stuff like that where we get so many bites at the apple and animation with each stage of development that you could just keep on putting new things in.

[A]

It's so cool. It's really fun. I really think everyone's gonna kind of dig it. And I know. I saw on the. Later in the season, there's also like, of course, the paranormal investigation team that comes. Comes into. Do a TV show there. So I'm like, okay, I'm looking forward to. Yeah, looking forward to that.

[B]

And Carl Tarver.

[A]

Drew charver. Other 2. One of my favorite show. We were just talking about the other two, weren't we, Riley? One of my favorite shows.

[C]

Hilarious.

[A]

Awesome. Well, we're gonna get it. We're gonna talk more about Haunted Hotels in this episode and more things that have actually already in the first episode shown up on the series. But before we do that, Matt, every now and then we like to check in with like ufo, paranormal and cryptid related news. And we have a quick update today. But Riley, get ready because I do have some news. I don't know if you gentlemen were aware. You've got.

[B]

I love watching your face.

[A]

All that. Yeah, it's your headphones.

[C]

Like, what are they doing?

[A]

It's embarrassing to do in front of stranger. You know, mostly strangers who write very funny things there. I don't know if either one of you guys were paying attention yesterday. There's a lot going on. Also, Matt, you have babies and TV show launching this week, but UFOs were back in Congress yesterday. The House Oversight committee were talking about talking to UAP witnesses. I think there were four people in total. There was a guy whose name I'm blanking on right now. This is how well I've done my research. But he is a former military guy who's like talked about seeing a giant triangular craft that interfered with like, his vehicle's instruments, and he watched it, like, shoot off to commercial airline, like, altitude in a blink of an eye. So there's some really good, good eyewitness testimony you'll probably have already seen at this point if you're poking around Instagram. But one of the big videos that came out, one of the big pieces is a new UAP video, one of those black and white military targeting videos of what looks to be like an orb flying over the ocean. I sent it to both of you guys. I don't know if you had a chance to check it out right now. Yeah, we'll put it up in the YouTube and in the show notes as well. But this orb apparently gets fired upon by a missile and just basically keeps flying.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a missile that's striking it.

[A]

Yeah, they're a missile striking it.

[B]

It is a hellfire missile. Yeah, I watched the full clip.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's a MQ9 Reaper allegedly tracking orb off the coast of Yemen. Green light given to engage. Missile appears to be ineffective against the target. It's just another one of these, like, what the is this?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everybody was basically testifying, like, this is a problem, you know, like, our weapons are ineffective against whatever this is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The. The congresswoman asked her. Her final question, I believe was like, does this video scare you? Yes or no? And went down the line of all these guys, and they all said, yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

George Knapp was there too. George Knapp was. Was providing his expertise. I reached out to Jeremy Corbell before we recorded because I'm not sure if this video came through Jeremy and George or not, but it was. It was leaked by a whistleblower. That's all I know. So, Matt, are you following this stuff? Are you into the ufo, UAP thing? Is this pique your interest?

[B]

I'm very into it. Whenever that big New York Times piece dropped, it feels like a year or two ago.

[A]

It was more than that. It's 2017 now. It was right when we started the podcast.

[B]

Oh, man. What?

[A]

Feels like two years?

[B]

But okay. Yes. I remember when it came out, and it was a real existential crisis day for me, where I was just fully in, like, oh, man, there's something here, and it's visiting us, really.

[A]

Were you before then? Were you, like, open to the idea of you, or was it. Were you just primarily skeptical?

[B]

I think I was. I was open to the idea of life, but kind of bought into the, like. Well, it would be very hard for them to get here, you know, faster than light travel. We don't know how to do it. And I kind of accepted that, like, yeah, maybe we'll find signs of life via telescope somewhere else. And that's why I was so rocked by this. Like, there's something physically there. And, yeah, these military men don't know what they're looking at. These people were trained to know what they're looking at. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So do you think then that. Are you pretty much in the camp that this has got to be extraterrestrial?

[B]

I'm somewhere between extraterrestrial and the much broader. We live in a simulation, but if we embrace the extraterrestrial of it all. Yeah. And I kind of think this stuff has probably been there the whole time, and we just only recently covered the world with cameras. And that's kind of why it's becoming.

[A]

More prevalent and just adding more and more cameras as we go along.

[B]

Just keep on adding them. Yeah.

[A]

What do you think of that footage, Riley? What is this? Does this.

[C]

I mean, aesthetically, I love it. It looks like something that would be projected while, like, a goth band is playing or something.

[A]

Totally.

[C]

But it'. I. It's. It is scary to think that of the context of what it is of these people saying, like, yeah, we shot a literal missile at this, and it, like, Wiley Coyote bounces off of this thing. It's.

[A]

And it's recent. It's 2024, I believe the video is from. It's not like, you know, The Tic Tac UFO on the Nimitz. USS Nimitz. That was like. That was over 20 years old. Now this is like a newer, Newer video.

[C]

It is. I'm like, just re. Watching the missile hit. It kind of just like boink. Like, it just, like, reacts, and then it's just sort of fine. Again, it.

[B]

My question on this one is why we shot it. We don't know what this is. Like, you know, it's not over. It's not over Boston. It's. It's like in the water over Yemen. Why are we shooting it? I know.

[A]

Really good point.

[C]

Yeah. We just all just casually accepted, like, oh, yeah, of course they shot on.

[A]

Behalf of the people of Earth, please. You know, though, it's like, why are you picking fights with these guys? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

In. In every, like, Independence Day style movie, like, you know, the first act is a huge conversation about, like, we can't shoot at them. Like, it could cause an incident. And in real life, it goes without saying, like, well, of course we shot it.

[C]

Oh, my God. We have all these missiles.

[A]

What are we not?

[B]

What else are we gonna do?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, this is why we're here, right, everybody? Come on.

[C]

Oh, man.

[A]

Well, let's take a quick break. When we come back, I'm gonna get more more into Matt's personal paranormal history and just find out more. Any what what he thinks and feels about the phenomenon. Oh, yeah.

[D]

Club scouts. I come to you from the darkest corners of your bedroom to warn you about what you're sleeping on. That's right. You're sleeping on bacteria. It's all around you. It's worse than a night terror.

[A]

It's.

[D]

It can cause breakouts, acne, it can clog your pores, and it's about as gross as sleeping on a toilet lid or seat or just curdling up in the bowl itself. Do you have a stuffy nose? It's because you're sleeping on grossness. Well, guess what? Miracle Made offers a whole new line of self cleaning antibacterial bedding such as sheets, pillowcases and comforters that Prevent up to 99.7% of bacteria growth and require up to three times less laundry. You may be wondering who I am. I'm a sleep paralysis demon who's interested in space. That's right. I love astronauts. And that's why I was delighted to hear that using silver infused fabrics inspired by NASA, Miracle made sheets are thermoregulating and designed to keep you at the perfect temperature all night long, no matter the weather, so you get better sleep every night. And remember when I said your sheets are disgusting?

[A]

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[D]

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[A]

Thank you Miracle Maid for sponsoring this episode. Okay, Matt, we ask every guest, what's your personal paranormal history Now? You're a guy who 2017 came along. You're like, okay, great, now I gotta, I gotta bring aliens into my life now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What about the other stuff? What about ghosts and those things, you know, you're obviously writing about them now. Was this something that you were always interested in.

[B]

You know, on a just personal horror level? Not as a kid, no. I was a coward. I saw. And weirdly, I haven't seen it since, so I'm not sure which one, but I saw one of the Nightmare on Elm street sequels as a 10 year old. I walked in on my dad watching it and it was a part where someone was getting their chest ripped open and. And I'd seen nothing even close to that as a 10 year old. Like it was, it was zero to 80 in terms of just like my worldview of what can happen to a person.

[A]

And was your dad like laughing really loudly as he watched it? Was he like really having fun with it or was he like.

[B]

No, wasn't even aware. This is a real, like I was walking through the kitchen to, you know, get water or something. I definitely was not sitting down to watch it with him. It was one of the. Saw it on my way through the room. And that kept me away from horror for a good 15 years because, you know, it got me through my teens with like, nah, it's not my genre, I don't care. And then I just kind of lost track of it, but came back to it in a big way in my 20s and just, you know, same way.

[A]

I was exactly the same way. Too scared to watch as a kid. Dabbled a little bit in college and then after college I was like, I gotta see what all this stuff is about. Then became like a big horror nut.

[B]

Yeah. On a personal level, in terms of, you know, ghosts. I've had three encounters.

[A]

Whoa. All right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Serving on. Come on. Yeah, make us some pancakes. Here, Matt.

[B]

The thing I'll say up top, hard to say, like, in, you know, this, like, podcast. People haven't heard from me, context, but I'm pretty logical. I'm the logical friend. So it alarms people. I know when I say, yeah, I've seen a ghost, and here's. Here's how it works. It's not something you want to hear from me, but that's what I want.

[A]

To hear from the most.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I've seen things and I can't explain what I saw. And you probably have more information on this than I do, but they took different forms. That's what was interesting for me. The first encounter was some 10 years ago, and my wife and I were on vacation in New Orleans, and we were in the Omni, it might be called the Omni Royale, the Omni Hotel there, which is known to be haunted. But we didn't really stay there because of that. And so our first night in this room, I get up, middle of the night to go to the bathroom. And I mention that detail because I wasn't drowsy, you know, I was fully awake. I went to the bathroom, lights on, went back to bed, and lights are off, except for, like, a small, like, nightlight thing in the bathroom that remained on. And when I sit down in bed, I see at the foot of the bed and another, like, five feet beyond against the wall, this, like, three dimensional shadow. And it's just standing there. And it had roughly the shape of a human. Like, I could kind of make out the sense of arms and legs, but it wasn't like they were out. They were like, against the body. Okay. And I was awake enough to wonder, like, you know, what is throwing a shadow here? And I'm looking around the room for, like, is there a lamp? And, like, there's nothing. The curtains are drawn. There's nothing that could be throwing a shadow. So I shine my phone flashlight on it, and it goes away. Nothing there. But when I put the flashlight down, it's back and it starts drifting toward the bed.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah. So at that point, again, I'm like, what is this? Wife is sleeping next to me. I shine the light again, it disappears. And when I put the light down, it's back where it was and then starts drifting toward the bed again. And at that point, this is where there's like, just an extra level of I don't know what's going on. I start looking around the room again for other sources of light. And I see up above the curtains, above where my island had Been the last time this other shadow that like. Only way I can explain is that it looked like a kind of gollumy like crouched shadow that was somehow. It doesn't make geometric like standing on the curtain rod, you know that was kind of like what it appeared to be doing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And as much as the first shadow was odd, the second shadow, red, malevolent. And it's so strange to say, but I felt a really distinct. Even though they kind of looked the same, this is a bad shadow. I shouldn't look at this one. And I don't know if there was a relationship between the two.

[A]

I don't like this at all.

[B]

But yeah, the first shadow, like once it got to the foot of the bed, it stopped. And I could kind of, if I move my head, I could see behind it, you know, like it was presenting like something kind of opaque.

[A]

It's like a three dimensional.

[C]

Yet had form in the room.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Around it. Yeah.

[B]

And at that point, because you know it's like 3am or something for. For lack of like anything else to do, like we're not going to change rooms. I just said out loud. Okay. And went back to bed.

[A]

Yeah. What else are you going to do?

[C]

Okay. Ye.

[B]

Okay. Because I don't believe they can read our mind.

[C]

You letting them know I've seen you. I see your little bit. The light is very good. Okay.

[B]

I understand. It's your room.

[A]

Cute. It's cute. Cute what you're doing here.

[B]

I'm only here tonight.

[C]

We'll be gone.

[A]

Did you have to bring out the golem? You had to do that. I'm gone but I have to check out late. Checkout's 11am I will not be here very long.

[B]

Bother the next guy. Yeah.

[A]

Did. Did you go back to sleep? Yeah. Oh yeah.

[C]

How do you.

[B]

So the next day was her birthday. I didn't wake her up when it happened. And so yeah, the weird detail of this, she really wanted to see a ghost. And part of coming to New Orleans, you know, we did ghost tours and you know all the hopes you got to.

[A]

You got. You're in New Orleans.

[B]

She was hoping to see a ghost. And so the next day after we left the room just you know, to be out of the space, I said, you know, I saw a ghost last night and expected her to be kind of like really like why didn't you wake me? And instead her face kind of fell and she went, what? What do you mean? And it was what I was talking about where like I'm not a person. You expect to say, yeah, I saw a ghost.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And it, it kind of wrecked her day. She was very upset, just like. And frightened at the idea. And we were there one more night actually, and we slept with the lights on.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No. I'd be like, can we get a different room?

[C]

Yeah. The malevolent crouched curtain rod figure is.

[B]

I know. I tried just not to think about it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because nothing was moving in the room. You know, there wasn't, There weren't other things going on, so.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I took it as an ongoing dispute between those two and it's not my problem.

[C]

This has nothing to do with me. I'm just.

[B]

Yeah. I, I'm sure you'll be back at it when I'm gone. So.

[A]

Did you ever check out any of the history of the hauntings there?

[B]

We tried to a little bit. And like, you get so lost, especially in New Orleans hotels with. There's a lot of tourism based.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Stuff like, oh, it's a very haunted hotel. It has a history of. So it's. It's hard to parse specifics as opposed to like some small town hotel where like, oh, yeah, a guy died here. He was dragged by his horse, you know. Right. There's. There's so many things that could happen. We did ask the front desk people like, is that hotel or is that room known for anything? And they did not play into it. They, they. They did not seem interested in our question. And they're like, oh, no, not another.

[A]

Yeah, lots.

[B]

I think they thought we were fishing. Yeah.

[A]

Lots of disembodied laughter, moaning. There's. There's a spirit of a helpful maid who wanders the halls at night. I don't think he ran into her.

[B]

No.

[C]

This doesn't sound like a helpful.

[A]

No. And one. One tenant even recalled waking to find her ghostly apparition attempting to change the sheets on of their bed while they were still in it. Oh, well, maybe.

[B]

Maybe we were getting to that. Maybe approaching a bed. Maybe.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe Building. Building up to that. So that's just, that's just one of your encounters.

[B]

That's one. That's. I thought the, the spookiest one.

[A]

Man, that is pretty spooky. Freaky.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I had another one a little more recently that was in this house that we were renting in Sherman Oaks. That it was this old farmhouse that it looked very out of place in the neighborhood and was built in like, you know, 1900 and had been owned basically by one family the whole time. Like we were renting from a guy who grew up there and his mom had lived there most of her life as well. And we found out, I don't know, order of events on this story. Oh, okay, I'll save that part. So when we move in, I always felt at the top of the stairs, two story, like kind of farmhouse, just looked like a, like the conjuring house kind of. It's not as big, but that kind of deal. Got it. I always felt an odd kind of just energy at the top of the stairs right outside the master bedroom. And the pets seemed to as well. We had a dog and a cat and they both spent a lot of time there, which was odd because we'd had stairs in other houses and they didn't do that. But they were both always posted up there.

[C]

Like doing the staring into space kind of thing.

[B]

Yeah, the cat especially. And the dog just seemed anxious and would just sit and then stand and sit and stand. And so finally knowing that my wife got alarmed by the New Orleans thing about a weekend when she wasn't home, I stood in that spot and I just kind of said. I couldn't tell you word for word what I said, but just out loud to the house around me, hey, we live here now. I understand if you used to live here, if you were still here too. And I think that's great. And you know, we're going to try to take good care of the house. It was just something like that. Something like, we will be good stewards of this place and it's fine that you're here for us because you were here first. And about 15 seconds after I said that, enough time for me to like stand, nothing happens. Go down the stairs, I hear a bang upstairs and I go up into the bathroom and a window that had been propped open with a dowel because it was a really old window that like the springs in it were worn out and it wouldn't stand up on its own. Been propped open the whole week we had been there. And before that, since we checked, it had slammed shut.

[C]

Whoa, whoa.

[B]

So that was, I felt like an acknowledgment of like, I hear you a hundred percent.

[C]

And also don't prop my windows open.

[B]

Should be closed.

[A]

This is not a proper use of a towel.

[B]

And the, the more visual coda of that story was a few days after that I was in bed, woke up in the morning and I saw an old woman. And this was not like a three dimensional shadow. It was just kind of like there was color to it. I could tell, oh, that's an old Woman sitting facing the other way at the foot of our bed. And I saw her for a good five seconds, and then I turned to my wife, and when I turned back, the woman was gone. And after that, I didn't really. I didn't feel the same thing at the top of the stairs anymore. And.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Stopped sitting there, too.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

So. And so the. The piece of information we got after that. Because this isn't something you ask when you move into a house. I mean, you know, most of the time, anyway, we asked, like, has anyone died here? And the former renters who we knew told us that, like, yeah, the. The owner, the landlord, his mom died there. So I think that was mom coming to check on the house and.

[C]

Yeah. Check on the new tent and see.

[B]

Who'S here and maybe hold.

[A]

Feeling like she's got to hold on to it, maybe. You know, because when you think about it, the going upstairs, that's the more personal part of the house, you know, so maybe that there was sort of like a. Almost standing guard in a way, you know, of like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At the top of the stairs. Like, this is my. This is where my space starts, you know, up here. So that's. That is a really.

[C]

But then the sitting at the end of the bed and, like, it almost feels like an acknowledgment of, like, all right, you're okay. Let's not do that with the window. But, you know, you can. You can stay here kind of.

[B]

It's weird because, yeah, it sounds like a startling image, but I. You know, in the moment, like, I. I perceived as, like, it's not like, there's a person in our house. Like, I perceived it as, like, oh, a ghost. And it didn't feel scary. It felt, like, surprising. And then it was gone, and that was it. And it. To me, it kind of felt like an acknowledgment.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

100. What did you. What did your wife say when you told her about that one?

[B]

Any of that until we moved, really.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Several years later, I told her, by the way, I think the ghost of the owner sat at the foot of our bed once.

[A]

I wouldn't have lasted several minutes. I've been like, wake up, wake up, wake up.

[B]

Yeah, I did. I didn't think it was worth it. Yeah.

[A]

And that's just. So you didn't want her to be concerned in the house while you were there or. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I. I don't know if I'm policing ghosts here, but I was kind of basing it off of, like, how much The New Orleans thing seemed to wreck her, and I felt like this was a good interaction and she was gone now. And, you know, my wife may not have the gift, you know, and she. She wouldn't understand. She wouldn't understand the interaction.

[A]

Oh, my God. I. I love this. This is so great that you're just, like, going to keep this between me and the old lady.

[B]

What.

[A]

What was her reaction when you finally told her?

[B]

Annoyance. She was annoyed and, like you're saying, surprised. I kept it to myself for impressive.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. I was going to bury that deep down.

[A]

And he's the logic guy and he's the secret guy. Everybody, if you got a secret you want to tell, that's going to keep it for you.

[B]

I'll keep a secret.

[A]

Yeah. We have to break, but when we come back, we're going to get the third story from number three from Matt. Everyone hang tight for number three.

[B]

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[B]

Broke the Internet last year and I.

[A]

Think this season's lineup is even cooler. And so does my wife, who keeps.

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[A]

Stay fit for the season. And Abercrombie's newest arrivals shop NFL by Abercrombie in the app online and in store. Okay, we're back. Matt. Matt is just locked and loaded with stories. Ghost encounter number three. And I'm going to all. I'm going to say this now, Matt, it's not your last one. There's going to be a 4, 5, and 6 at the very least.

[B]

I haven't seen one since kids, like. And I wonder if I'm just like, more mentally distracted that I'm not open to that stuff. But yeah, I'm. It's never when you expect it. It's never like I'm chasing it, but exactly.

[A]

That's actually when you're not going to find it. Most of the time is when you're actually looking for it.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, so this one, it's not a save the best for last scenario. It's kind of the Vegas where, like, maybe this wasn't a ghost. I'm not sure, but it was very odd. So I was working on the show Community and we were working on the Paramount lot on the weekend because that show worked weekends.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And the Paramount lot is right up against the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. And don't quote me. I feel like I have a memory that it's one of the older lots. But, like, a lot of characters works there.

[A]

No, I think it is one of the older lots as well. Yeah.

[B]

Well, I know there are a lot of sad stories about kid actors at that lot.

[A]

Really.

[B]

And so we, you know, side note, on our own, because we were sometimes there very late at night waiting for like, a script to be finished or something. We had to turn in. We would go on little, like, ghost hunts on our own. Like, just go into the back lot and go into old buildings and old sets.

[A]

So fun.

[B]

Try to. Try to find something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But this particular day, it was just midday. It was like 1pm we'd had lunch and a few of us were sitting at a table on the second floor of this office building that looked out on some of the other stages and some other, like, old office buildings. And I'm looking out the window and I see a. A little boy's face, like a gray little boy's face looking through a window. Kind of catty corner to me, like across, not directly across the way, but a little bit down. And both the look of the face and the placement was odd. It was in one of those I don't even know what you call it. Like, lattice windows, you know, where it has, like, the grids on it. And I mentioned that because the boy's face wasn't, like. It didn't look like a boy who was standing, like, he wasn't, like, in the middle part or upper part of the window, like, would make sense for a human body. He was perfectly centered in the lowest center grid. And it was odd enough. And this is what makes me think it was something. Like, I felt something when I saw it. And you see weird. You see stuff outside the window all the time. Like, oh, there's a cool bird there. You don't think to, like, stop the room you're in to, like, look at that bird. But, like, I was frozen, staring at this little boy's face. And I said to the room, like, I think there's a boy in that window. Like, I couldn't help but say it because there was something just so odd about, like, the energy of it, what I was looking at. And as people turn to look, it kind of as if he was in, like, a roller chair. And this is why, like, well, maybe it was just a little boy in a roller chair, but it didn't feel like that. The face just kind of gently, like, rolled away and out of frame. And, like, it kind of, like, faded into the darkness of the room at the same time that it did. This.

[A]

This is giving me the worst goosebumps I've ever had in my life. That's the scariest one as far as I'm concerned.

[B]

Matt and I. I don't remember any more the details, but we looked up that room because, like, all those buildings have history in it. It's all pretty well noted. And, like, there were some child deaths on the lot. And they may have worked at the sound stage, like, right next to there.

[C]

Yeah. Did you feel like this face was looking at you specifically? Like, did you see the.

[B]

Yeah, the eyes? Because, again, it was. You know, this was a Saturday on the lot. There's. There's, like, no one else working, you know, like, the. The ground, the. The street below us. No one on it. We were the only ones in the building. And, yeah, it looked like this boy was just, like, looking at me. And I felt compelled to say something, like, borderline entranced by what I was looking at.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And then it was gone.

[A]

I've literally. I mean, I've. This sounds. This is reminding me so much, Riley, of my Lois Gruno story. I saw a little girl at the. I went to this school Interlocking arts academy up, up in the woods in Michigan. We had an old theater there and I saw. We knew this ghost haunted. But I'd never seen anything ever. All the kids had had like, you know, stories or spooky things. Oh, this thing moved and this thing happened. But I saw her sitting at a window with a friend. And it was similar situation where she was in the inside of the building looking out and pale skinned like she looked like a Polaroid picture coming into focus. And then it was like a real pale gray little girl. I could see the white of her eyes. I could see her hair parted and braided into pigtails. And then it was a thing where like we, me and my friend saw it, got scared, turned around and she was just gone. So I never saw her dissipate or evaporate or roll away. But it's very similar to what you're describing.

[B]

That's totally the vibe. And what I think is so strange with like my three encounters that I can't account for is like they all took different forms. You know, what one three dimensional shadow, one basically kind of a person with color and then this gray figure and I don't know what COD is that.

[A]

Was it gray?

[C]

Like sort of like black and white film gray? Is that what you're describing when you say gray?

[B]

Close to that. Not that dramatically that, but kind of action. Like a very pale and definitely kind of affected by, you know, if a room with no lights on during the day, it just looks black inside. You can't really see inside. So it was kind of affected by that lighting. I think it was just not well lit.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But yeah, borderline black and white.

[C]

So what does your. You know, you're like a logical rationalist. Like what does. But you've also had these experiences. Like what is.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

What does your rational, logical brain say about this?

[B]

I. I just. I haven't tried to put that much thought into it except to accept that there are things that can happen after this.

[C]

Right. Okay.

[B]

And maybe there's a lot of things that can happen. That's. That's kind of where I'm shaking out, you know, like there's.

[A]

Yeah. That's just. It's one option. Maybe. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like it's not a, you know, stay here or go on. Maybe there's a few different versions of staying here based off of your fixations or. I'm not totally sure I believe in the idea of unfinished business. That feels like kind of a story thing that we made.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. But a fixation which I Guess is kind of close to the same thing. Makes sense. People are obsessed with things in life, so I would buy them getting hooked to those things in death.

[A]

Yeah. Or just feeling. I kind of like the idea. And maybe this is a story again, too, of, like, there's sort of the idea of, like. Well, some people were. So, you know, religion is such a thing hammered in, especially in the past. It's, you know, predominant role, especially when we're going back to, like, the 16, 1700s in England and stuff, that there's that fear of, like, continuing on because you're scared of where you're going to go. So you stay. Instead of walking through the light, you stay here. Because you don't. You'd rather be here than in hell. You know what I mean? If that's where you're going to end up.

[B]

So Charlie does that, and all dogs Go to heaven.

[A]

That's right, Charlie.

[B]

He doesn't want to go.

[A]

He doesn't want to go.

[C]

That's a very good point.

[A]

Everything I ever needed to know, I learned from All Dogs Go to Heaven.

[C]

I mean, not wrong.

[A]

Okay. We have a game, by the way, that. That the visual in my head from that little boy looking in the window, like, truly sent shivers down, up and down my spine like, four times during that story. And I am never gonna. I have such a creepy image in my head. It's never gonna go away. So thank you for that.

[B]

I had to watch that and then go back to, like, all right, now let's tell some jokes.

[A]

Yeah. So we're doing a multiverse one.

[B]

What are we doing?

[A]

So I'm gonna go down a list of phenomena, if you. Rapid fire style. Now, there's no room now for. For ambiguity. If you're open to it, you say, Believe It. If you're not open to it, you're gonna say, this is a game that we call.

[C]

Or Believe it.

[A]

Okay, Matt Roller. On your mark. Get set. Ghosts.

[B]

Believe it.

[A]

Bigfoot.

[B]

Bullshit.

[A]

UFOs.

[B]

Believe it.

[A]

Mothman.

[B]

Believe it.

[A]

ESP.

[B]

Believe it.

[A]

Chupacabra.

[B]

Believe it.

[A]

The Abominable Snowman. Ouija boards. The Loveland Frogman.

[B]

Believe. Believe it. Not sure. Not sure.

[A]

Ah, yes.

[B]

Pass.

[A]

No, you said believe it. The Hopkinsville Goblins. Skunk Ape.

[B]

Believe it.

[A]

Hollow Earth. The Loch Ness Monster.

[B]

Been there.

[A]

Crystal balls. The Beast of Busco. Which, if you're not familiar, very large turtle. Oh.

[B]

Then believe it.

[A]

Out of body experiences.

[C]

Believe it.

[A]

The Michigan Dog. Man.

[B]

I want to believe it.

[A]

Tarot cards. Wendigo's.

[B]

Believe it.

[A]

I thought I spotted A Wendigo on your show. Life on other planets. Believe it. Life after death.

[B]

Rapid fire. Believe it. Yeah, there you go. I don't know. Something. Yeah, there's something.

[A]

Okay, I got something I'm taking. Not umbrage with, but I want to circle back, too.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes to Mothman.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Yes to skunk, Ape. No to Bigfoot.

[B]

I think Bigfoot has gotten. Bigfoot feels like a man made, you know, kind of creation propaganda. It feels like something that was a publicity stunt.

[A]

Okay, okay, fair enough. I can see how you get there.

[B]

I'm open to believing that some of these things, like there's a weird creature somewhere, I. And. And I want to believe, which is why I'm saying yes to a bunch of them. But some of these more popular ones, it feels like it's based in marketing more than actual sightings.

[A]

There's a lot of marketing, especially when we get to the 1950s and the term Bigfoot is coined. Up till then, a lot of these stories were kind of, like, passed around in the Pacific Northwest, especially in British Columbia, and not really marketed. So I feel like maybe the Sasquatch stuff is kind of like the Mothman stuff. But then it just. Once we get to Bigfoot, it really takes on a life of its own, and it's hard to. To discern the. From the. From the gold, you know, I don't know.

[B]

I'm thinking of the modern Bigfoot. Yes. Yeah. Well, that's seventy hundred. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Seventeen hundred Sasquatch.

[B]

Believe it.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

We drove him out.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Now, just in any of these things, not necessarily on this list, but any of the stories that you told, have they found? Are they finding their way into haunted hotel as. As you make the show?

[B]

Not exactly. I think usually we're chasing what's a fun. What's a fun game to play with something horror that hasn't been done before. So it's usually not as rooted in personal experiences, because I feel like that's something you would do more on, like, you know, supernatural or something. Like, take something someone experienced and dramatize it. And our thing is more. This is not a spoiler. I just think it was fun that, like, you know, one of our characters, Nathan, is a ghost. He's one of our leads, Will Forte. And so in the slasher episode, it felt like a fun opportunity because I couldn't think of a horror movie that's done this for him. A ghost to tag along with the slasher to keep tabs on him. Because, you know, normally that Guy like rounds a corner and disappears and it's too dangerous to follow him because he'll kill you. But we've got, we've got a ghost who can like walk along. Not only that, he's a friendly guy who's like, so what's your deal, man? Like, what? Why are you trying to kill everyone? Like, are you lonely? Do you need a friend? So that's, you know, we're looking for games like that, that, like this is horror, but it's something that horror doesn't normally do. Yeah.

[A]

So fun. I love it. All right, we're going to take another quick break. When you come back, it's time for this week's story of high strangeness with Matt Roller. Roller. Roller.

[B]

Roller.

[A]

Roller. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption.

[B]

It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[A]

Learn [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels and music are made for each other. They share a rhythm in the craft of making something timeless while being a part of legendary nights. From backyard jams to sold out arenas, there's a song in every toast. Please drink responsibly. Responsive responsibility.org Jack Daniels and old number seven are registered trademarks. Tennessee whiskey 40 alcohol by volume. Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. All right, we're back. Matt Rollers here. And you know, I, I, I sort of, you know, not front loaded. I back ended this with a lot of material because I didn't know you were going to come so loaded. So we're gonna ask you to steal just a little bit longer. All good. But I did have a little bit of a preview into what your hotel story was. So I thought, let's see if I can find something that ties into those shadow entities that you experienced. And I think I found something. And we've never done it on the show before.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Right as I was lying. Stop giggling, everybody. It's serious time.

[C]

Serious.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Serious scary time.

[C]

Yes, we're serious.

[A]

As I was lying there with the covers pulled up to my face, nodding off, my eyes would open and fall open and fall over and over again. And then at some point, something I heard on TV made a noise and caused me to wake up and open my eyes A little wider. Only this time, I saw something out of the corner of my eye. I had always had a fear about intruders and what I would do if someone ever broke into our home. For a brief moment, I thought that the movement I was seeing might be my grandmother getting up to go to the bathroom. But as I moved my eyes more into focus, looking down through my great grandmother's room into the hallway, I very quickly realized it was not my grandmother. What I saw gripped me immediately with fear and dread. I saw a tall, human like figure, and the figure looked like that of a man. The man had no distinguishable features whatsoever. I could see no eyes, no nose or mouth, Only blackness. He looked like a shadow, only darker, much darker. He had a very wide brimmed hat and a long trench coat that flowed as he moved. This terrifying encounter was posted by Timothy M. Brown, Jr. On a website he's devoted to tracking and collecting stories about a mysterious figure that many people claim to have seen lurking around their homes at night. Matt's nodding his head. This figure is composed completely of shadow, described as darker than dark, and is notable for the accessory he often doffs, the jaunty accent that gives this entity his name. Club scouts of all timelines, join us as we explore the dark corners of your bedrooms as we peer into the void of the Hat Man. Yeah, now, Matt, you know about the Hat Man.

[B]

I know the Hat Man.

[A]

That man, he makes a brief cameo on the first episode of Haunted, maybe more, but I was very excited, very synchronicitous.

[B]

He's a background guy. We, we have hotel continuity because they're all bound there, you know, so we, we, we have all these ghosts who just pop up in the background throughout a bunch of episodes.

[A]

I love this. So the Hat man is a shadow entity seen at night when you were trying to fall asleep or have just woken up. Categorized by some as a common sleep paralysis demon, the Hat man is a walking silhouette that seems to appear and disappear at will, leaving his victims terrified in their beds. You may see him pass your open bedroom door or lurking in the corner by your desk or emerging from the void of your closet. You'll know him by the large, wide, brimmed hat that he wears. But just who or what is the Hat man and what does he want? Matt, do you have any takes on the Hat Man? What's that?

[B]

Yeah, I love his name and I. My personal, personal connection to the Hat man because I'd always heard, you know, if you take a lot of Benadryl or something like that, that can be a thing that brings up a hat man. And when our our dog who is in spastic and it's fine, had cancer, she was on a a bunch of Benadryl. Just like that was part of the treatment. Just load her up with like a unreasonable amount of Benadryl each night we would say, looks like Macy's getting a visit from the Hat Man. Just seeing him every night.

[C]

Very good guy.

[B]

No, I don't have an opinion about him. I just, I really like him. I haven't seen him. I I like the idea of a ghost maintaining like an accessory.

[A]

Yes, me too. It's like I I've got a hat. That's all I need. That's how you recogn I hadn't heard.

[B]

About the trench coat. Really.

[A]

The trench coat comes up more than you think in a couple of these stories. So according to Reddit user satanic panic6 When I was 4 or 5 years old, one of my earliest memories actually I woke up on the floor of my grandma's living room next to my sleeping mom. From where I was laying, I could see the front door, which had a window at its very top. The window was at 8ft. Like I said, at the top of the door I could see a shadowy figure of a man in a fedora looking at me. I pulled the covers over my head, scared out of my wits. I'm 43 now and it's still one of my most vivid memories. Spooky tales of normal everyday people having encounters with shadowy beings began circulating, circulating online back in the early 2000s. Timothy M. Brown Jr's website, the Hat Man Project is just one of many places where stories of the Hat man are shared. The Hat man began to emerge from the from the public consciousness on the late night radio show coast to coast am, as stories about shadow people became a popular topic on the program. In October of 2001, Art Bell hosted a guest named Holly Hollis who described Shadow people. People as dark silhouettes that take human form and are often seen flickering in and out of our plane of reality out of the corner of your eye. Now according to her, the shadow beings had been known to jump on people's chests and choke them. She believed that they were alien beings composed of a negative energy and kind of like that little golem guy that you saw and could be repelled by invoking the name of Jesus. Shadow entities, including the Hat man, seem to cross cultural boundaries, as noted by another Reddit user, karanthus karanthus59 on the hat man subreddit I was raised on a Native American reservation in the 1950s. The hat man has been a part of our culture for centuries. He is a taboo subject. Subject Other than to warn our young not to have any. Any willing dealings with him. We would also warn our young not to talk to him. For discussion of him is an invitation to him.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

All great thanks to our understanding. Here we go. Huh?

[B]

I. I like the dealings part, that there's a level dealing. You can have dealings with him.

[A]

Yes, yes. To our understanding, this entity is altogether evil. He can start out benign seeming to some, but once he has you fascinated and enthralled, he turns on you. And this sounds like somebody who had a very bad divorce, doesn't it? Like just had a really.

[B]

Like.

[A]

He really. I. He took me in with his dealings. It's very difficult to get rid of him once he has his grip on you. He always brings disease, shattered relationships, madness and death.

[C]

Yikes.

[A]

Now, this idea of a negative being appearing in your bedroom at night is nothing new. This is a story that is old as humanity. Now, I was surprised by this. Do either of you know the etymology of the term nightmare?

[C]

No.

[A]

This is fascinating. So the word nightmare comes from. It's. It. It entered into our lexicon around 1300. And it literally means an evil female spirit afflicting men or horses in their sleep with the feeling of suffocation. So it's compounded from the words night and mayor. And in this case, a mare is a goblin that causes nightmares or an incubus. So the meaning shifted mid 16th century from the incubus to the suffocating sensation it causes. So sense of any bad dream is recorded by 1829, that of a very distressing experience. So it seems in its original use, it was applied less to strange or bad dreams, but used to describe what we call sleep paralysis today. And the term was codified by Samuel Johnson's Dictionary of the English Language, which was published in 1755. And it literally means night goblin. A demon that comes into your bedroom at night and sits on your chest. Most of our listeners will be very familiar with this concept in the form of the incubus. And here I should warn we are going to tread very lightly, very briefly, into the realm of satisfaction. So an incubus is a male demon that sits on your chest while you sleep and sucks the breath out of your lungs, or sexually assaults the sleeper. Merlin, of Arthurian legend was said to be the product of a human woman and an incubus who slipped into her bed one night. The female Version of this creature is known as a succubus and basically plays by the same rules. The succubus is the evil female spirit or mare, that inspired the term nightmare in Scandinavian folklore. A mare is a quote unquote damned woman who is cursed and her body is carried mysteriously during sleep without her noticing. In this state, she visits villagers to sit on their rib cages while they are asleep, causing them to experience nightmares or sleep paralysis. So this is very fun, Matt, because you used this word with us before we recorded. The mare, or succubus, is also sometimes called the old hag. You may have heard of the old hag syndrome, which is another way of describing sleep paralysis. And when we describe someone as looking haggard, that expression is a reference to the old hag, meaning it means you. You didn't get a good night's sleep because the old hag was riding you all night. So that's why you look haggard. You got. You got hag.

[B]

It's not three kids. Yeah, it's a hag.

[A]

It's an old hag. And they say, like, she rides. Like she literally gets on top, on top of the covers and just rides you. And you cannot sleep all night long. So it's got this weird sexual underbase. They also said that part of this may have come from nocturnal emission wet dreams of them being like, what the. What happened here? It must have been an old hag, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So. Stories of incubine succubi can be traced back to 2400 BC. They are alluded to in the epic poem Gilgamesh, where the hero Gilgamesh's father is listed as Leeloo. Leeloo is described as disturbing and seducing women in their sleep, while Lelotu, a female demon, is described as appearing to men in erotic dreams. The 7th century Greek physician Palace Agenetta, thought that the nature. That the nature God Pan was responsible for sleep paralysis climbing onto sleeper's chest at night. Eastern Chinese folklore features stories of mice crawling onto your chest at night and stealing the sleeper's breath, allowing them to shape shift into human form for a temporary amount of time at night. The mice that are doing it.

[C]

I like that one.

[A]

So sleep paralysis demons, the category of which the hat man falls under, have been with us for a very, very long time. Today, however, science explains that these entities are hallucinations. At least this is the scientific belief. According to the Telegraph in London, sleep paralysis demons are nightmarish hallucinations that often accompany episodes of. Of sleep paralysis. This occurs when the temporary Paralysis, which is a normal feature of rem, the stage of sleep called rapid eye movement or dreaming, takes place, continues for a few seconds or minutes after waking as the line between sleep and wakefulness is blurred. During rem, sleep sufferers see, hear or feel things that are not really there. So one study reported that out of 185 patients diagnosed with sleep awareness paralysis, more than half sensed a presence in the room, usually something non human, and 22% actually saw a person in the room, usually a stranger. This intruder, who oftentimes comes as the hat man. Another little side.

[B]

Yeah, this. This excuse feels like something that someone who's made a deal with the hat man would say. That is right.

[A]

These are the dealings.

[B]

These are the dealings.

[A]

I also didn't realize this, but you may have known that hypnagogic hallucinations occur while falling asleep and hypnopompic hallucinations occur when waking up. So there's like a difference there, but yeah. So incubus hallucinations, which often tend to co. Co occur with intruder hallucinations to hat man are marked by sensations of pressure on the chest, along with the feelings of suffocation or choking. Now I'm going to pull out of this scientific research here for a second and say what's interesting to me about this is I feel like, Matt, what you saw while you were wide awake now that you've told this story, was an incubus and a hat man that you had the little demon thing there that was very malevolent, and then you had the figure there that was the intruder, which is the visitor, which is very strange because they can co concur during hallucinations as well, which makes you think, are they hallucinations?

[B]

Right. They double booked the room.

[A]

They double booked.

[B]

They each thought they were gonna hunt just one guy. And yeah, there's too many apps now.

[C]

For these rooms, for these sites.

[B]

It's so hard for them to track. Yeah, I got it. When you were talking about the hat man too, I was thinking in his case, because I had an awareness of him before I saw this thing, which you're right. Hat man feels like an option. Feels kind of tulpa ish. When did the hat man start? And it feels like there is kind of a wide jokey awareness of him. And are we giving him power?

[A]

Exactly. This sort of thought form or aggregor that the public have helped create or something that's old, that is now shape shifting into a thing that we all have a common agree and so on. Like, much like I think alien grays are kind of that like before alien. Before we all decided on alien grays, aliens looked like a bunch of different things. And now everyone's like, this is what they look like. Because this is how they show up. Here's another story, quick one from Scout of there. The only thing I can describe is that around the same age I say maybe five or six, I don't know, was with my brother, who's four years older. We've seen a person with a black trench coat and a black hat that you mentioned. It was flying around in circles. You can even see the trench coat flap as it was gliding through the wind. So this is outdoors. I guess they're called flying humanoids or something. But this one, like, looks looked like a person. Just don't know what that small object they were sitting on. So this is someone who's like talking about, I've seen something. This is sort of like a Hat man and a witch. It's flying in the air.

[B]

I don't think that man can fly. I. I got a real bump there.

[A]

I pull the Hat man back down to ground.

[B]

Okay, you saw something else. I believe you saw something.

[A]

Fair enough.

[B]

It wasn't the Hat Man.

[A]

Yeah, they said it wasn't a balloon or a kite. It was actually a person. As a kid, we thought it was a witch, but I don't know what to call it. I'm sure it wasn't a witch when I was sure it was a witch when we were kids. So maybe a witch. I mean, witches wear hats at least.

[C]

You're pulling these from the Hat Man Reddit.

[A]

Some of these are. These are from the Hatman subreddit, which is massive. And, and again, I turn to these because this is really where the Hatman lore really lives online and people sharing these stories. According to scientists, things that can cause sleep paralysis are stress and anxiety, sleep deprivation, family history, ptsd, alcohol consumption, narcolepsy. These are all ways that you might see the Hat Man. Now, one of the more popular ways, Matt, which you already mentioned, is you take a ton of Benadryl before bed. According to a 2022 Rolling Stone article on the popularity of Hat Hatman on social media, on 4chan and elsewhere, the Hat man is often referenced as a hallucination brought on by the abuse of diphenhydramine or dhp, the active ingredient in the over the counter allergy medication. Benadryl forums like Reddit R ilove hp, where users post trip reports after taking dangerous amounts of the drug. The Hat man is at once an inside joke and a mascot with people saying, I'm going to attempt to see the hat man and fuck him.

[B]

And.

[A]

But any mind altering substance taken to excess is thought to grant access to the hat man. Even caffeine. Now, this might certainly be a good way to summon the hat man. Don't recommend it before bedtime. But what if, gentlemen, you wanted. You don't want to see a shadow person in your room at night. Well, here are some colloquial ways to protect yourself against a mayor. And the first one directly contradicts the Rolling Stone article. Drinking coffee before sleeping. Taking a mare's hat. So you take the hat off of the mare and he goes away, throwing a piece of a noose at the demon. Sleeping with a leather wedding belt or a scythe.

[C]

How are you gonna explain this bed.

[A]

To someone when they come over? Yeah, okay, so I got a leather belt. I got a wedding belt. Don't ask me where I got that. And there's a scythe here. Just be careful. That's in case the hat man comes.

[C]

It is sharp.

[A]

Here's a. Here's one. We've got these elaborate ones. And here's another one. Changing one sleeping position.

[B]

You can either have a noose or you. You can sleep differently or just roll.

[A]

Over, smearing feces on the front door. You can do that. That's gonna keep the hat man away.

[C]

Is not going well.

[A]

No. And then finally leaving a bundle of hay in one's bed and going to sleep in another room will keep the hat man away.

[B]

Oh, it tricks them. Yeah. They'll sit on the hay.

[A]

Yeah. So there's a lot of fears.

[B]

Yeah, The. The cure is worse than the disease.

[A]

I'll take the hat man. Thank you. Like, where's the feces coming from? What are we doing here? So there's a lot of theories of what the hat man might be. If the hat man is. Is real. We've got demons, ghosts, interdimensional beings. I've always liked that one. That there are people thinly veiled from, you know, the other side. Vampires or parasites that feed off of negative emotions. And I've also heard on this show, actually ancestors or helpers from the other side that are akin to guardian angels. Now, I would say that's a little spooky. I'd rather see, like a cool angel than a man in a hat. But I would be remiss to point out the obvious similarities between the hat man and the men in black. Maybe. Maybe there's some type of extraterrestrial connection. Whatever. The Hat man is real. Her hallucinatory. I think he's been with us for a very long time and will continue to be with us as long as humans turn off the lights at night. Before we close the book on the Hatman mat, I want to share one more high strangeness encounter that I read online. And this is like very fun. High strangeness. And this is from Reddit blogger, a Reddit user. Ba Boogs. This happened around 2023.

[C]

A reliable source.

[A]

Yeah, this happened in 2023. 2003. 2003, give or take her year. I was probably a freshman in high school, so maybe 14 or 15 years old. That makes it about 22 years ago and I've never forgotten it. I woke up in the middle of the night to see a figure standing in my room, not under but next to my closet door. I didn't know what it was at the time, but I now realize it fits the description of a hat man. Tall, dark presence, wearing a wide brimmed hat. But this encounter had one very strange detail that I've never seen anyone else describe. It was holding boxes. They looked like board game boxes. Flat, rectangular, maybe eight to 10 of them, stacked up and held like a pizza delivery. I couldn't see his head, hands, but the way his arms were positioned made it clear that he was carrying them. I could still see his tall, dark structure and the outline of his hat, but his face and eyes were completely hidden behind the stack of boxes. He didn't speak to me with words, but I could feel what he was asking. He wanted me to open my bedroom door, the one that led out into the hallway. That's it. Just open the door. His energy didn't feel evil or threatening, just like someone quietly asking for help because their hands are full. Sounds a little bit like dealings. As I got out of bed, I turned my back to him and then opened the door. I waited maybe five seconds. I didn't see him leave, but an energy shift happened and I felt like it was time to shut the door. As if he walked out of my room. And that everyone is the Hat Man.

[C]

See, you don't need to smear feces on the door.

[B]

Just do a dealing.

[A]

Yeah, I just like the. The boxes thing like that to me.

[B]

Great.

[A]

That's wild because then I'm like, is this like a time loop overlap? Is. Are they seeing a shadow of somebody from the past? Who. Who can't. I don't know. This is just very. That's a really strange one. And very, very fun. Very cool. Maybe. Maybe you need a scene in season two of. Of Haunted Hotel where the hat man's getting out all the board games, you know, to play one night. There you go.

[B]

Or a time loop. I like that idea too. That someone's like in a loop of their death.

[A]

That's a. Yeah. And I think that sometimes with the ghost stuff too, there's overlapping. Maybe you're seeing someone from the future or the past and they're seeing you in your time period and you both think you're seeing a ghost, you know? Yeah.

[B]

That's cool. I like that.

[A]

I don't know. What do you guys think where you all come down on the hat man now?

[C]

Pro.

[B]

I like it. Yeah. I'm starting. You know, the more we were talking about him, I. I have a working theory of interdimensional pervert. That there's other things there and none of them think to bother us. He's the guy. He's. He's got his cool hat that no one else has. No one thinks it works.

[A]

He's put on his trench coat, his hat, because he's sneaking out of the house to go to this dimension. Every dimension's got a pervert. And the hat man is that dimensions pervert.

[B]

He's dressed like a loser. Yeah.

[A]

You know, absolutely. No, it's great. I do. I. I do like interdimensional pervert. I think that's a good. That's a good place to land. Absolutely. And seems like it has been throughout history. Matt Roller, thank you so much for being here, man. When remind everybody when we can start watching Haunted Hotel over and over again.

[B]

September 19th. It's a Friday. If you're listening after this, you can just watch it over and over again and. Oh, hey, if you like any Netflix thing, this goes across the board. I didn't know this. Netflix told me they really care about the double thumbs up rating.

[A]

Yes. Okay.

[B]

I didn't even notice that they still rated stuff. I know they used to. But like the single thumbs up. No, that's actually bad. That's almost worse than not rating at all. If you like something. If you like something, including this show. But I'm also just saying, any show you like, give it a double thumbs up. They. They apparently care a lot, so.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that so funny that all this technology streaming all just comes down to.

[B]

Totally. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's wild.

[C]

Well, well, everybody go watch it and double thumbs up it.

[A]

Absolutely. I'll be.

[C]

Get those metrics up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Look, it's. Honestly, I'm not just Saying this because you came on the show and you're a delightful human being. It's a really funny show, and I really, really think that our listeners. It's like, it's a show tailor made for the BCC crowd. So, like, absolutely, go watch. It's really fun. And this, you know, people who come here, they come to this podcast because they want to tap into this stuff, but also have fun while doing it and maybe have a laugh. So absolutely awesome. It's so, so fun. And also just really, just as a nerd, it's, like, exciting to see, like, these characters and entities, like, illustrated. You know what I mean? It's just fun to see. Just fun to see them on screen. So it's great show, everyone. Go check it out. Matt, can we follow you on Instagram, any of those things anywhere else we can keep up to date with what you're working on?

[B]

Yeah, I'm. I'm trying to extricate myself from social media. Fair enough.

[A]

Yeah, I'm.

[B]

I'm on Twitter X as roll Diggity. But I.

[A]

Okay, great.

[B]

I'll probably post about the show once it starts. Okay. But just. Just watch the show.

[A]

Honestly, Watch the show.

[B]

Don't follow me. Just watch the show.

[A]

Fair enough. Well, we appreciate it.

[C]

Peering through the window and then just.

[B]

I don't want to be known. I don't want to be perceived. Received.

[A]

Fair. Matt, thank you so much. Congratulations. I can't even get back into frame now. Congratulations on the show and thank you for joining us. We really appreciate it.

[B]

Thank you for having me. This is great.

[A]

I mean, great stories. Come on.

[C]

Great stories. Great dude.

[A]

Great stories. Great dude. What else do you want in the clubhouse? That's. That's all we're here for. Great show. Hey, man, we're swinging. We're swinging by Collector's Corner. That's why. That's my plug. Go watch it and listen, if I didn't like the show, I wouldn't be saying this right now. We already plugged in enough. But I like the show.

[C]

He's gone now.

[A]

It's. He's gone. He's. Yeah, he's probably not gonna listen to this anyway. It's a good show. Do the double thumbs up. That's a really good thing to know. Yeah, I want more shows like this on tv. And you know what? Oh, that's in a future episode. Never mind. But we forgot to. We're recording a little out of order, but we forgot to say something to a reader. Never mind. Anyway, a listener. I just want to say in the future, this will make sense. I've not seen Resident Alien, but I want to. And now I'm sad that it's getting canceled. So this will make sense next week, right?

[C]

We're in this is a time loop kind of situation.

[A]

I can't believe. I know. I've never seen it. Anyway, but don't worry about Resident Alien. Go watch Haunted Hotel.

[C]

Right? Watch it and watch it. So they get another season.

[A]

Yeah. All right, everybody, Anything else you want to plug or shout out or say? Say, Riley. No, not really.

[C]

I mean, you know, I just. I love seeing, like, good people making good work and having success at it. And it's just like, just. It makes me happy. These little things in the world when you see someone make something like, really funny with like, lots of layers and lots of care and everyone works really hard and it's actually good. Yeah, it's like a small miracle, you know, and then you meet the people and they're like, oh, this is.

[A]

These are great people. I'm glad this is happening to a nice person.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, that's all just. It's nice. It's nice to have nice things sometimes from nice people.

[A]

We need them. All right, everybody, reminder. You can always find more of us over at BCC clubhouse on bcc.supercast.com three bonus episodes every month on BCC the other side. You can get ad free episodes and you can get Cosmic tracks from the one and only. It was a tough one, this. It was a good one, but it was a tough one.

[C]

It was a mouthful.

[A]

It was a mouthful. But the transcendent virtuoso Pleiadian, of course.

[C]

Such high regard.

[A]

You.

[C]

You all place.

[A]

I know you really get a. I mean, they're kind of like big ego boosts, seriously. But yeah, if. If you don't see. If you don't see us over there, then we will see you back here next week for an all new episode of bcc. Until then, good night and go get regressed. Swing by the merch shop on your way out. Go get that old school, old school T shirt.

[C]

Go get it.

[A]

Go get it.

[C]

Go get it. All right, here we go.

[A]

What if a third hand came in the frame? Oh, yeah. Bigfoot Collectors Club is executive produced by Riley Bray and Michael McMiller and engineered and edited by Riley Bray. Our theme song is Come Alone by Sun Eaters courtesy of Lotus pool Records. For ad free listening and bonus episodes every month, join BCC Clubhouse on bcc.supercast.com Want to see us watch video episodes and exclusive content on YouTube.com advitfootcollectors Limu Emu and Doug Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save.

[B]

Hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

[A]

Fascinating.

[B]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us.

[A]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings vary unwritten by.

[B]

Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates.

[A]

Excludes Massachusetts. Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change your receipt did the sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5 only at McDonald's for a limited time. Prices and participation may vary.