The Odyssey

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: The Odyssey
Release Date: July 19, 2026
Hosts: Griffin Newman, David Sims, Ben Hosley
Guests: Marie Barty Salinas

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Overview

This episode of Blank Check dives into Christopher Nolan’s epic passion project, The Odyssey (2026), dissecting its structure, performances, filmmaking, and cultural impact in the inimitably detailed, riotously funny style that defines the podcast. The hosts and guest Marie Barty Salinas break down their personal viewing experiences, the film’s mythic source material, casting choices, themes of guilt and heroism, and much, much more—while riffing, digressing, and making sure irreverence remains a guiding star.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Christopher Nolan’s Blank Check Trajectory

[09:09]

• Nolan’s unique position: an auteur with unwavering studio trust following Oppenheimer, now tackling an unadapted mythic epic.
• The hosts note that “his success has only grown… what is there even left for this guy to cash in?” and that The Odyssey felt like the only possible next move after Oppenheimer.

Quote:

“Those checks have not run out for one Christopher Nolan. They keep getting bigger on an uninterrupted run of checks being handed to him for now, 21 years.”
—Ben Hosley [09:36]

2. Production Format and Viewing Experiences

[16:09–20:25]

• Each host saw the film in a different city (NYC, Chicago, London) and format (IMAX 70mm, 70mm film, digital IMAX), reflecting the event nature of Nolan's releases.
• Discussion of how format impacts the experience—echoing debates among big-screen aficionados.

Quote:

“It is, it's a—it's a fucking big ass movie.”
—Ben Hosley [20:25]

3. Nolan’s Approach and the Myth’s Modernization

[36:35–40:37]

• Opening with Travis Scott as a modern Bard, blending epic tradition with the now.
• Nolan’s take: mythic stories should be urgent and immediate, not trapped in faux-historic solemnity.

Quote:

“It’s a real mission statement moment for him: this is still what we do—we tell stories through verse to each other.”
—Griffin Newman [36:59]

• Addressing online critiques about “accuracy” and tone—Nolan’s playful but emotionally resonant vision.

Quote:

“Whereas that has never been his thing. There’s always been silliness in his movies… he is a literal-minded guy in a certain kind of way, but… he is a guy who just is like, nothing but the facts, ma’am.”
—Ben Hosley [39:37]

4. Structure, Themes, and Innovations

[28:10–29:39; 44:11–47:13]

• Nonlinear, emotion-driven editing reminiscent of The Thin Red Line.
• The Trojan Horse as metaphor: not sanitized, a source of haunting guilt and moral weight.
• Application of the “Zeus’s law” of hospitality—tying ancient notions to modern anxieties about social contracts, trust, and societal collapse.

Quote:

“What is seen as his greatest triumph…he can kind of never get over what feels like the dishonesty of it.”
—Ben Hosley [44:44]

• The film’s borrowing from Oppenheimer—the “burdened hero” who wonders what damage he’s left behind.

5. Mythological Adaptation Choices

[71:58–76:11]

• Gods are kept mostly offscreen, appearing as psychological forces (most notably Athena/Zendaya) rather than literal divine interventions, to ground Odysseus’s journey in lived trauma and guilt.
• The use of Emily Wilson’s gender-conscious translation: focus on Odysseus as a “complicated man,” not just a man of “twists and turns.”

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Memorable Moments and Notable Quotes

The Cyclops Sequence

[07:03–09:05; 83:49–91:28]

• Host Ben highlights the Cyclops scene as a technical and dramatic marvel—raising the question of “movie magic”—and Bill Irwin’s performance as both terrifying and full of pathos.

Quote:

“It genuinely was one of the first times in a long time that I watched a sequence in a movie and went, I have no idea how the fuck they did this.”
—Ben Hosley [06:53]

Quote:

“It gets to… it feels like you're witnessing something that could—am I just looking at a person with facial differences? Am I looking at something that could have been misinterpreted and become myth?”
—Ben Hosley [89:52]

The Cersei and Sirens Episodes

[105:02–108:12]

• The transformation of men into pigs: disturbing, vividly realized, gross, and emotionally resonant.
• Samantha Morton as Cersei singled out as an Oscar-worthy presence, with Nolan himself noting the impact of her performance on set.

Quote:

“There are two times in my filmmaking career where an actor has done something that when I called cut, the crew broke into applause.”
—Ben Hosley referencing Nolan on Morton [108:59]

Performances and MVPs

[22:24–23:56]

• Samantha Morton and John Leguizamo are praised as MVPs for their soulful, nuanced supporting turns.
• The casting overall is lauded—Nolan fills even the smallest roles with distinctive, memorable actors (e.g. Pattinson, Corey Hawkins, Mia Goth, Benny Safdie).

Quote:

“Morton...this just feels like Nolan wanting to remind everyone how good she is…Leguizamo, I don’t feel like I’ve ever seen used like this before.”
—Ben Hosley [23:18]

Tom Holland’s Telemachus

[29:41–32:15]

• The podcast discusses the challenge of Holland's perpetual youthfulness and finds his performance—naïveté, yearning, growth—well-matched to Telemachus.
• The uncertainty of Holland’s post-Spider-Man career trajectory is raised, with this film potentially marking a turning point.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Time (MM:SS) | |--------------------------------------------|--------------| | Opening banter and facial hair gags | 00:54–02:17 | | Discussion of viewing formats/IMAX | 16:09–20:25 | | Overview of Nolan’s blank check career | 09:09–10:47 | | Conversation around structure, themes | 28:10–29:39 | | The Cyclops scene | 83:49–91:28 | | Favorite moments per host | 07:39–08:16 | | Critique of Troy and other adaptations | 68:28–71:58 | | The Cersei sequence and Samantha Morton | 105:02–108:12| | Penelope (Anne Hathaway) and The Bow Test | 51:05–55:09, 133:32–134:16 | | Final homecoming and violent showdown | 139:32–145:12| | Final thoughts/review roundup | 148:02–149:08|

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Cast, Characters, and Performances

• Matt Damon as Odysseus: Noted for understated ruggedness and human fragility, marking one last “action hero” role.
• Anne Hathaway as Penelope: Cynical, stretched-thin, and “great in this movie” [51:11], with remarkable chemistry with Damon.
• Tom Holland as Telemachus: Naïve, but ultimately learns and matures.
• Robert Pattinson, Corey Hawkins: Standout as suitor antagonists; Pattinson’s performance likened to “James Woods in Casino”.
• Samantha Morton (Cersei) and John Leguizamo: Considered MVPs, bringing gravitas and heart.
• Zendaya as Athena: Distant, iconic divine presence; “unbelievable at doing disappointed face” [78:38].
• Benny Safdie as Agamemnon: An indirect but looming presence, “never really seen outside the helmet.”
• Elliot Page as Sinon: Profoundly impactful in scenes revealing the cost and betrayal of the Trojan Horse.

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Thematic Analysis

• Haunted by the Past / Guilt and Heroism:
  The film frames Odysseus as a man with blood and lies on his hands, struggling under “the shadow of the Trojan horse”—the burden of choices made in war.
• Societal Collapse and Hospitality:
  Ancient Greek “Zeus’s law” of hospitality recast as a metaphor for social trust—showing the fragility of civilization.
• Myth, Memory, and Storytelling:
  Through the opening with Travis Scott to the shifting timelines and viewpoints, storytelling (and who controls it) is foregrounded.
• Modern Resonance without Didacticism:
  The myth is made contemporary—paralleling “Oppenheimer made the terrible world we live in now”—without ever moralizing.

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Additional Highlights and Running Jokes

• Comparisons to other adaptations: Dismissal of Troy (2004), praise for Sean Bean, gags about Dinosaurs/Baby Sinclair, and puppet versions.
• Long-running Blank Check tangents: “Who wouldn't want to see Legs, Johnny Legs?” [25:59]; “King Koopa” digressions; references to the Simpsons and Arthur “Jekyll, Jekyll, Hyde…” episodes.
• Digressions into movie theater snacks, Chicago/NY/London bits, and “deep dish” analogies for theaters.
• In-depth “neighbor movies” sidebar (Arlington Road, Rear Window, etc.) following the Hades sequence.
• Gag: “Are you self-aware, Dennis Quaid?” re: The Intruder [114:22].
• Recurrent callback: “Dog violence in this film”—Ben’s sensitivity toward movie dogs [58:32].
• Nolan’s family/sentimentality obsessions likened to Shyamalan (with less of a focus on elevator devils).

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Final Thoughts

• The Odyssey is unanimously praised as rich, moving, technically staggering, and thematically resonant.
• The hosts anticipate major box office success, awards attention, and a rewarding rewatch for its craft and complexity.

Quotes:

“I think it'll be a very rewarding second view.”
—Griffin Newman [148:12]

“This is one of the most relevant films of 2026. It's one of the biggest films of 2026. It will certainly go down in history...”
—Ben Hosley [153:58]

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In Summary

This episode provides an exhaustive, hilarious, and insightful exploration of Nolan’s The Odyssey—balancing close-read critical analysis, mythological context, performance appreciation, and comedy. Whether you’ve seen the film or not, you’ll come away understanding both its epic scale and human intimacy, inside the theater and out.

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Navigation Table

| Section | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------|-------------------| | Podcast Theme & Purpose | 00:31–00:54 | | Facial Hair & TV Show Banter | 00:54–04:01 | | "Blank Check" Explanation | 09:09–09:37 | | Screening Experiences & Formats | 16:09–20:25 | | Nolan’s Mission Statement / Opening | 36:35–40:37 | | Structure, Themes, Trojan Horse | 28:10–29:39, 44:11–47:13| | Cyclops Episode | 83:49–91:28 | | Cersei Sequence & Samantha Morton | 105:02–108:12 | | Penelope & Bow Trial | 51:05–55:09, 133:32–134:16| | Final Battle & Homecoming | 139:32–145:27 | | Final Thoughts | 148:02–149:08 |

This summary preserves the episode’s spirit: deep, nerdy, giddy about movies, myth, and minutiae.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

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[Ben Hall Hosley]

blank check with Griffin and David. Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that

[Griffin Newman]

the name of the shadow is Blank Jack.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Excuse me.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I am but a simple beggar. Is this the kingdom of the Czech Republic?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I've heard that your co host has

[Ben Hall Hosley]

been journeying on an odyssey across Europe and there is an opening to co host the podcast. And once again, I'm just a simple beggar and nothing more. Unsheath. I draw. You do the bow bit into my bow. My bit bow.

[Griffin Newman]

The bitbow.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Here's my bit bow.

[Griffin Newman]

Arrow.

[David Sims]

Boing.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Defy the pods.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that was. Defy the pods. That's funny.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Defy the pods. Cast.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow, that was so great.

[David Sims]

That was really good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yay. And you have authentic facial hair, much like Matt Damon.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I do.

[Griffin Newman]

I have.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

How would I describe it?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm describing it as. You look like Seth Bullock in Deadwood.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes, I do. I've been saying Conquistador, but you're right. I feel a little Don Quixote. It's a little. Maybe that's because I've been in Spain.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Well, so we should explain for the listeners. Basically, Griffin, he's always been rocking a mustache, but now he's got a pretty full soul. Patch.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got the patch.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'll say this. So the mustache has become more and more of an emphasis in how I conduct my face.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I'm a fellow stache man.

[Griffin Newman]

I get it.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

We stash it up.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

We look great.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

We're secret stashers.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Thank you. I'm filming a TV show. I'm working on a TV show, which I'm gonna say sometimes I think people should make.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And I'm gonna say, Griffin, humblebrag.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Thank you. This TV show is very well run, but I am coming in late into a season and there's a big wall in the hair and makeup trailer of, like the 70 speaking roles in this season.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And I'm introduced, like 60 out of 70 there you go. And they're like, you need to have a facial hair design that is different than what anyone else has. So it's like so many of the things have been claimed and variations. And I came in just sort of unshaved. I hadn't shaved anything in, like a month or two going into this. And they were like, we're keeping the mustache and we're. We're emphasizing the flavor saver. So even right now, you're seeing me, I'm a couple days off from filming. The rest of my face has been squeaky clean. I got a little stubble back now, but I've been squeaky clean. Outside of mustache and flavor saver, he's squeaky. And you're right. I look exactly like Matt Damon in the Odyssey.

[David Sims]

Well, I was gonna ask you, like, how long of a beard can you grow?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, like, if allowed.

[David Sims]

Matt Damon's beard, the length of it is really impressive.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I mean, if you could grow facial hair, you can grow a long beard.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You can. It's about commitment.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about commitment.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

My problem is if I have too much beard, I start like, picking at it as, like, a nervous thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And then I start, like, pulling at it and futzing with it. So then I usually don't let it get past. I heard the Matt Damon grew for a year.

[Griffin Newman]

He said a year. He said he had a beard for a year, I guess is how he put it.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It's a full looking beard.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, because in Greek antiquity, they didn't have fake beards, I guess. So no one was like, no fake beards.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, and we know that this is a movie that is 100% historically accurate, and that's why no one is angry about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Wait, people are already angry about it?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, don't worry about them, Ben. Don't worry about those guys. We're here to celebrate.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It's guys. You're saying it's angry guys.

[Griffin Newman]

What if it was all girls?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Ben, if I told you that one multi, multi, multi billionaire was angry about this movie, who would you guess? It was? One very online.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Well, let me think. Are they normal, though?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The most normal.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Okay, then, Elon Musk.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Perfect sense of humor. Yes, exactly.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, what's this podcast called?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

This is called the Potussy. It's called Blank Check with Griffin and David. But today we're going on a potussy.

[Griffin Newman]

We are going on a potussy to Ithaca and I guess Troy and a

[David Sims]

bunch of other unique islands with scary stuff on them.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

New York City. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, A Bunch of other rice.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's so true, Socrates.

[David Sims]

Have you guys been to Ithaca?

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. My mother is a Cornell alum.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

The thing that's really scary about Ithaca, as far as walking around is the gorges and you have to over these bridges and you just look down and it's just.

[Griffin Newman]

It's quite hefty.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It's just.

[Griffin Newman]

It's quite a draw.

[David Sims]

I visited Cornell and Ithaca on like a little college tour. And the. The one thing that everyone talked about was like, oh, yeah, lots of people just like, fling themselves, I know, into the gorgeous area.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Went to Ithaca College and just casually mentioned like, yeah, people just will commit suicide because it's too gorgeous.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very small. And look at the island. Like, God, everyone's fighting over this. Not that big chairs, you know, it looks like it has some nice beaches.

[David Sims]

It's home.

[Griffin Newman]

I know it's home. It's home. But, you know, Pattinson's coming all the way out just to try and get this little. Like, why not this? Look at this island. This island's huge. Kefalonia, right next door.

[David Sims]

I don't know. Maybe there are fucking monsters on it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, all these islands.

[David Sims]

There are no monsters on there. They're just. They're just monsters.

[Griffin Newman]

There's. Yeah, there's men, there's petty.

[David Sims]

Men are the monsters. But you don't have like giant Bill Irwin, like, butt naked with one eye eating.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

You see, my read on it was just the smaller island is maybe more strategic. Maybe it's just maybe safer, I think

[Griffin Newman]

easier to govern too. It's just kind of like, you know, got some sheep.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I want to front load this. The cyclops sequence in the movie is the highlight of the film for me.

[David Sims]

Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

I would not say that's true for me, but it makes sense that it is for you because it have big monster, which you do have a big monster.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Big monster. I also love Bill Irwin.

[Griffin Newman]

We love Bill Irwin.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It genuinely was one of the first times in a long time that I watched a sequence in a movie and went, I have no idea how the fuck they did this.

[Griffin Newman]

I had the same. I certainly. Obviously, I was trying to give myself over to the movie, but I was constantly kind of like, I guess there's some forced perspective stuff, but I'm not totally sure how they pulled this off.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But then it's that great movie magic thing where you watch one shot and you go, okay, I think I figured out how to use this.

[David Sims]

And then switch it up.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The next shot completely breaks whatever your sense was. And part of it is that he's pulling things back to basics so much.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That any overcomplicated process that you would just assume or hand wave away, you're ruling out.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

It was very cool when he pick up guy and eat him.

[David Sims]

Yeah. That was scary. I got scared.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Step on him with foot.

[Griffin Newman]

And step on him with foot. Squeeze him and Katuza. I know.

[David Sims]

You know what's so cool about the Odyssey is I wouldn't be surprised if all of us had a different favorite section of the movie.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay, let's go around. Let's do this. Let's go around the horn.

[Griffin Newman]

David. I think Marie and I have the same favorite section, though.

[David Sims]

Well, I have two favorite sections.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Oh, I know.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite section is certainly Cersei and the Pig.

[David Sims]

Yes. Cersei was a big standout for me, but I also was really, really moved by the flashback to Odysseus experience of carnage in Troy.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That was.

[Griffin Newman]

That was very. Yes, I was very impressed by the narrative thing he was doing in the third act, certainly. Yes, that is fair, Ben.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Okay, I'm gonna attempt to say the name of these people, and I'm sure I'm gonna butcher it. The last Dragonians, the big guys.

[Griffin Newman]

The big fucking crazy nights. You like a big.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Oh, my God, it was so sick.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And that was crazy when it was like, who's that man? And then it turns around, it's a giant kid.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Sure.

[David Sims]

And he's laughing.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, that was great. It's weird that Ben like the sequence with the taunting child and the giant brute army. And I like the sequence with the emotionally wounded monster just in a fetal position in a cave played by one of America's finest clowns.

[David Sims]

I didn't know it was Bill Irwin until after the fact.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I had to tell you.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's such a good performance. Very cool. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as making a Bartman movie, and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Those checks have not run out for one Christopher Nolan. They keep getting bigger on an uninterrupted run of checks being handed to him for now, 21 years.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

What are we counting as the Batman begins? That was 21 years ago.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it was 2004. That's crazy.

[David Sims]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

I was but 19, maybe 20 years old.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You could say that Batman Begins was the guarantor, but I think the circumstances around Batman were so weird at that point in time that they basically gave him a blank check because they were like, we got no better idea.

[Griffin Newman]

But we already said this with him.

[David Sims]

He.

[Griffin Newman]

He constantly has guarantors. He said about this movie, like, this is my biggest budget movie ever. And it's because Oppenheimer did so well. Like, it's like, it keeps.

[David Sims]

But you don't get to make a movie like Oppenheimer at Oppenheimer's budget without that being a bit of a blank check as well, of course. So it's like.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Correct.

[David Sims]

I have no idea what he does from here.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Can do whatever he wants either. I think he has to go smaller, and I think he's even sort of talking about that now. But we covered him many years ago. His success has only grown at the. Since we covered him at the time. He already was arguably the filmmaker of his generation. And with every success of film, he's only become more and more important. And now he's making what feels like the biggest movie you could possibly imagine.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I mean, we had this conversation after Oppenheimer, all of us, we were just like, the fuck does he do next? When Oppenheimer, which on paper was A1 for me, makes nearly a billion dollars and wins every Oscar and performs as high as most of his films have ever achieved, and then what is there even left for this guy to cash in? And there were all the rumors that he was doing Blue Thunder.

[Griffin Newman]

That's made up.

[David Sims]

Is that a helicopter cop movie? Those are.

[Griffin Newman]

Those are yellow code word things.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, is he doing a whole horror movie? Is he doing a this. There was all this sort of horror.

[Griffin Newman]

He said he wants to figure out a horror movie, which is.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Which is interesting, but do you remember we were all in the office together. I can't remember what episode we had just recorded or were about to record. And I went, holy shit. And I showed you. There was a tweet and it was Christopher Nolan's the Odyssey, filmed entirely in IMAX, coming summer, 2026.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It was just all at once. Suddenly the announcement was out there. We had known the cast. The cast had been growing, had been pinned to the board, but we didn't know what it was. And then we just went, holy shit. Of course he had to do this. It was either the Odyssey or the Bible. It was the only move for him to do next.

[Griffin Newman]

As he's pointed out, there is no Hollywood version of the Odyssey ever.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's what's wild. He's like a weird guy. And that's what had to be this.

[Griffin Newman]

No one had ever tried this. Obviously. There's. There were a couple, sort of Italian,

[David Sims]

you know, There was Amanda Sante.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a TV movie.

[David Sims]

I tried watching that on YouTube last night. I turned it off after 30 seconds.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you want to see what the Cyclops looks like in it? Someone posted it to my work slack.

[David Sims]

Oh, you know, he looks kind of good. He looks like a big baby.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Let me see this guy. I like this. I like this guy.

[Griffin Newman]

He looks pretty good.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Griffin shit, right?

[Griffin Newman]

It's a little bit dinosaurs vibe, you know?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, you know, little early Holland there.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Did the Jim Henson Creature Shop work on this at all?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, one assumes, right? I mean, let's talk.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

They did a lot of those TV movies.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say that was their. That was how they kept the lights on, Right?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Exactly. There's like, the Ted Danson, Gulliver's Travels around that.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that was huge. Remember Ted Danson?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, he was huge. Remember how big he was?

[Griffin Newman]

He was big. He was. And you know what, Griffin?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The Alopecians were small.

[Griffin Newman]

I can confirm for you that the creature effects for this miniseries were provided by Jim Henson's Creature Shop. They had a talking animatronic pig roasting on a spit. That's cool. They had a rod puppet, sea slug, sea monster, and they had, you know.

[David Sims]

Well, maybe I'll try. I'll give it another shot. But I'll just fast forward to all the cool.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

To the puppet stuff.

[David Sims]

Puppet stuff. Last night for research. I was like, I want to watch some stuff to, like, get me in the Odyssey mood again. Because we saw the movie, what, like, three days ago? So I watched the episode of Arthur where DW retells the Odyssey, and I watched the episode of Wishbone.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I was gonna say Wishbone must have spun that tale.

[David Sims]

But it's very interesting because, okay, in the Arthur version with dw, there's none of the, like, what's happening back at Ithaca stuff. It's just DW on a boat encountering monsters. And then in the Wishbone version, barely any of the monsters. It's all back at Issac.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I really hope there's budget limitations.

[Griffin Newman]

Listening right now as we talk about this.

[David Sims]

I just think it's. I think it's crazy that children's media.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the first.

[David Sims]

Well, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, they still do it, I'm sure. Gabby's Dollhouse has done an Odyssey episode.

[David Sims]

Has Gabby's Dollhouse done an Odyssey episode?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

She found a new room in her Dollhouse.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not sure. Not sure if she's gotten there yet. I just have to read this review for the 1997 miniseries that's cited on Wikipedia because it's so such a good burn by Richard Nielsen of the Arizona Republic. Even though the made for TV movie is only four hours long, I wasted a fifth hour stewing over how God awful it was.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

He's saying, this is. This shit was so bad, it ate into further time in my life. It ruined an additional hour of my life.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That miniseries had its own controversy at the time because they cast Baby Sinclair to play Helen of Troy. Cause they had him kicking around the creature shop and people got really upset.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's a Muppets reference. Or is that Muppets? I didn't know his name was Baby Sinclair.

[David Sims]

You didn't know his name was Handsome,

[Ben Hall Hosley]

but people thought he didn't have a face that would launch a thousand trips. That was the argument. I think he's handsome.

[Griffin Newman]

He's iconic. I mean, I don't know if I would call him handsome, but, like, everyone knows the baby.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He is literally the moment.

[Griffin Newman]

You think he's currently the moment right now?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think Baby Sinclair has never been more relevant. As proven by how quickly all three of you understood the joke I was making.

[David Sims]

I didn't like the joke.

[Griffin Newman]

I just forgot that they're called the Sinclair. Why are they called the Sinclairs?

[David Sims]

Because they're just a normal family.

[Griffin Newman]

But they should have had, like a pun name.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I agree.

[Griffin Newman]

You know.

[David Sims]

Wait, isn't there like a Sinclair Oil or like a gas station called Sinclair with a dinosaur on it?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, I think you're right.

[Griffin Newman]

That sounds a little. That sounds like a stretch, though.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No, see, Look.

[David Sims]

Sinclair Oil Co. Corporation.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Fossil fuel.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, the name is a reference to Sinclair.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay, this is funny.

[Griffin Newman]

This is really good.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's a really good show.

[Griffin Newman]

I am so smart, sophisticated.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Okay, let's talk about the Odyssey. The Odyssey and our screening experiences.

[Griffin Newman]

So, okay, great.

[David Sims]

We have three different screening experiences.

[Griffin Newman]

Three different experiences.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Three different cities. Three different major cities.

[Griffin Newman]

Three cities.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Wow. Much like the Odyssey the movie, this is an episode that spans multiple countries. Multiple cities, multiple formats.

[Griffin Newman]

Multiple formats, because. Yes. Okay, so, all right, well, Marie and I saw it at the AMC IMAX Lincoln Square.

[David Sims]

70 millimeter IMAX.

[Griffin Newman]

70 millimeter IMAX. Where I guess you can't get, like, a seat at, like, the 3am Screenings in August right now, like, it's, like, sold out for the rest of time.

[David Sims]

We are checking our privilege. It was. I feel enormously blessed to have had the opportunity to not only see this film in the, you know, the director preferred format, big old theater, but also in the best seat in the house.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. We had my favorite seats in the back of the house. Near the secret bathroom.

[David Sims]

Yes. Which I really.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

On the IMAX screen.

[David Sims]

Yes. On the IMAX screen.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

But it was 70. And you know, the. The f. Like the. The picture, there were little. Little spots and.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And I like that.

[Griffin Newman]

Very cool.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I like the texture.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I like the perfections.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, Ben. Ben, where did you see this?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I was in Chicago, the Windy City, visiting. And I went to an AMC theater in downtown Chicago and saw this film in 70 millimeter.

[Griffin Newman]

And at that theater, there's no ketchup. And it's all. It's like giardiniera. Right. And a big pickle in your pocket.

[David Sims]

He's talking about hot dogs.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm doing a Chicago bit. Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And there was celery sauce.

[Griffin Newman]

You saw it inside the bean. Right.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And the perspective was a little weird.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right. It was a little. The picture was a little funky.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

What's the deep dish version of a movie theater? Is it that the chairs are behind the screen?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It's like the whole theater is kind of like a conversation pit.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. But it just goes way pretty funny.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Or it's maybe. Maybe it's like Ben's original pitch of like the underwater upside down movie theater.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right. That would be good, especially for that. Anyway, okay, so. Yeah, you were in Chicago. Chicago. And so you went to a press screening there.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yes. Yeah. And unfortunately, imax not available.

[Griffin Newman]

They don't have an IMAX in Chicago.

[David Sims]

I just learned this today. I am.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's pretty wild.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

For such a major market, or I

[Griffin Newman]

guess if they do have one, they don't do press screenings there. I don't really know.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Do you know what format you saw, Ben? Was it 35? Was it a digital? You saw it in seven. Okay, so you saw in a. Gentleman 70.

[Griffin Newman]

Gentleman 70. Obviously, most people around this country will not be able to see the film in, like, fancy, fancy imax. Obviously there's, you know, digital IMAX out there, and there's 70 out there. There's a lot of formats.

[David Sims]

See it on 35 on Saturday where Nighthawk.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. Crazy.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think the number is there's somewhere between 40 and 50 screens on the planet that show it in the kind of complete, preferred Nolan format. Now, I have been in Spain filming Griffin's in Spain. In the entire country of Spain, There are only two iMac screens, both of which are Digital.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I had purchased tickets for one of them at midnight. So I was going to see this movie at midnight on Thursday, record with you guys the next day. And then my buddy, let's say friend of the podcast, he came through in a major way here, Sam Clements, who works for the picture house chain in the uk, the great movie theater chain. I was texting with him and he said, I might be able to get you into the press event, which was at the BFI south bank imax, Big

[Griffin Newman]

fancy theater in Waterloo. Very, very large.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

One of the biggest IMAX screens.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And he pulled off a miracle. His buddy David at Organic Publicity got me in. I had a handful of days off from filming. I, in fact, have more than a handful of days off from filming.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Seems like. Any work?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

A little bit. A little bit. I've been doing a lot of siesta ing, but a little bit of work, a little touch of work on the side, a kind of pinchus amount of work. Just small tapas work. How many other phrases can I appropriate here? But I got to see it at the South bank in 70 IMAX, which was quite a treat. It is, it's a. It's a fucking big ass movie.

[David Sims]

It really.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And this is. Nolan's been working on this project for a decade. Of how much more? More than a decade? Almost 20 years now. Because I guess it starts with Dark Knight 18 years ago. Of how much IMAX can I get into a commercial release film? And this is the first movie where he's gotten it up to 100%. Right. Every single shot in this movie.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I gotta say, this movie's epic.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It is quite epic.

[David Sims]

Pretty epic.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think regardless of what format you see it in, the actual fidelity of the image that has been captured is pretty fucking astonishing.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

David Ehrlich, friend of the pod, friend of my life, was at the same screening as us seeing the movie for the second time. He saw it in IMAX for the first time and then for the second screening, he saw it in 70

[Ben Hall Hosley]

and

[David Sims]

he said he preferred it in 70, which we were like, interesting. We think you're just making stuff up,

[Griffin Newman]

you know, the, the first screening of a movie like this where it's all hyped, you're all. You're so like, you know, buzzed up watching it and it's hard to concentrate even, you know, the second screening, you can focus more at what he's doing. Maybe that was part of it.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And if he's listening right now, he should throw a wallet at himself.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, he should, actually. Yeah, that's right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'll say this, we've all seen it one time. We've been fortunate enough to see it one time before release. In order to get this episode out quickly. I don't think I had any adjustment to how high my expectations were or the hype. I felt pretty settled into meeting the movie where it was at. It does feel like a lot of movie to absorb on one viewing. Yes. I feel like I'm struggling even two days later to get my head around some of it. I think the movie's excellent.

[Griffin Newman]

Not me. I'm strong as hell. Strong.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Strong as hell.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You feel like you got a complete take.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He was saying before we started taping, like, he's got the names locked down.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I was saying, yeah, the names.

[Griffin Newman]

Ramesh Patel, for example.

[David Sims]

Okay. And he was like, don't worry about it. We're just gonna say the actors names. And I was like, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

John Leguizamo.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Can I say he's my MVP in this movie?

[Griffin Newman]

Of course he is, Griffin. Of course he's your mvp. He's so good.

[David Sims]

He's the Krumholtz of the movie. I personally, and I don't know, maybe David, you will agree with me on this. I think Samantha Morton is the like, standout performance.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, I really think that everyone in this movie is very well cast and used. But it was so nice to see people like Morton and Leguizamo, who Nolan's never worked with before, where Nolan clearly immediately was like, that is the person I don't need to identify. Like, whatever. A bigger star here or what? You know what? Like a glitzier. Like he matched the actor so perfectly. Like Guizamo in the Odyssey. You're like that what? Like that doesn't automatically. You're like. And then you see it and you're like, I understand this completely.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Morton.

[Griffin Newman]

Makes total sense that, you know, that was dumb.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think they're the two MVPs. Morton. You know, we've talked about Morton a lot this year. And on the Morven Kaller episode, we were talking about how much in the late 90s and the early 2000s, she was seen as like one of definitively the great actresses of her generation. And she's receded a little bit. And this just feels like Nolan wanting to remind everyone how good she is and how powerful she is. Legazamo. I don't feel like I've ever seen him used like this before.

[Griffin Newman]

I was like, about this. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Unlocking new chambers for me. Cause he's like kind of the heart of the movie. He's like, in a way, the emotional spine of the thing. Who all the other characters are filtered through.

[Griffin Newman]

I, for some reason, kept thinking about John Wick because Odyssey does have a John Wick vibe of, like, he's coming back and he's mad. Like, which I feel like everyone should be afraid.

[David Sims]

Has an Odyssey vibe.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Absolutely.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Everything has been calling him and being like, do you still have my car?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, right. I mean, it was a little bit that. Where it's like. Like was almost just playing the guy. Where it's like, everyone agrees that this guy is reliable and wise.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Like as hell.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, that is what we turn. Because I'm looking at, like, Wasamo's. I mean, he works like. Like, was always working, but, like, what's the last time he was. It might be John Wick. Like, that he was in something where I was like, oh, it's so. What a great use of him.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Like, I didn't see Bob Trevino likes it, which everyone said he was really excellent in.

[Griffin Newman]

I should see that. I guess he's the lead of that, right?

[David Sims]

He's Bob Trevino.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's him and Barbie Ferreira.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, and Barbie Ferreira. By the way, she's having a hell of a year.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

She is.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm loving Barbie Ferreira. No, everyone knows Milan Kiss is great.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Our buddy Chandler Levix. Great film.

[Griffin Newman]

That movie is so good. Chandler.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

So good.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Are you listening to Chandler? I like the Canadian film explosion of 2026 is, to me, the big story.

[Griffin Newman]

That's so true. Yes. Canada is everywhere right now. Let's see. He's in the New Exorcist, Leguizamo. Okay. I bet you he plays like a priest who's like, I don't like the looks of this.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

We gotta get this demon out.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

You're right.

[David Sims]

That sounds very.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I can see it. I bet he talks out of the center of his mouth. Exclus.

[Griffin Newman]

Right down the center of his mouth.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Those front teeth getting a lot of exposure.

[Griffin Newman]

Is he, like, you know, has he done, like. Should we throw him, like, a glitzy miniseries so he can grab an Emmy or something?

[David Sims]

He was. He wasn't an Apple TV series called Smoke, which wasn't very good, but he was in.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Feels like he's primed, though. That's a good point, David. I feel like we got Legazamo in, like, third position on an FX series. He's, like, winning every award.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, who doesn't? Who's not happy to see Legs, Johnny Legs?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, King Koopa.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that's true. Although Actually, I don't really know. The King Cooper registered Luigi as a threat, did he? I mean, I can't really remember.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You know, I haven't watched that film in a little while.

[Griffin Newman]

Battle.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Even, like, King Koopa doesn't register Luigi as a threat. I would say that's a narrative shortcoming. I would say if King Koopa does not recognize one of the two Mario brothers as a threat at any point, that movie might have some script issues.

[Griffin Newman]

I do think I've seen the Super Mario Bros. Movie several times in my life. I think one could accuse it of having script issues. I think that's fair. I think everyone would bear that accusation with grace.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

This is the first time hearing this. Oh, my God. What do I say here? Put my finger up behind my ear.

[Griffin Newman]

So here we are. We saw the Odyssey. So, Griff, you saw it at the bfi. Was that nice? That's a lovely theater. I haven't been there in a long time, but it's very cool. It's a big old circle.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's in a circle. You gotta go a little bit underground in a tunnel.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool. Yeah. Cause it's like in the middle of a giant roundabout. There's cars going.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's in the middle of a traffic circle. Yes. And so you gotta take an underpass to go into the secret chamber.

[Griffin Newman]

Cool. That's great. See any pals there? Any of our Brit pals?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Honey Ross, friend of the podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And Sam Clements was there with me. I don't think I saw anyone else. Fair enough. But I was immediately taken aback by. And I think I wasn't reading early responses. You guys had gone with Marika Brownlee. Ben was seeing at the same time that I was vaguely. I had gotten general thumbs up from people I knew, but I wasn't reading anyone's deeper thoughts. And I was taken aback immediately because I was. Sam helped me get into the screen, but he'd already seen the movie, and there was a whole kerfuffle with me being his plus one, where they wouldn't let me in without him. So he said, I'll come and I'll sit through the first, like, 30 minutes again and then I'll leave. And I said, is, like, the opening particularly good? I was wondering, like, does it have one of these classic Nolan, sort of James Bond style Dark Knight tenet? You open with something kind of just so fucking insane.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And he was like, the opening's great, but it's not like that. And the movie starts, and immediately it was just like, this is not where I Thought this film would start. This is not how the first hour I imagined would progress. And the structure of this movie, for a guy who likes to play around with structure, is so different than I was expecting because he doesn't diagram it. Usually when he does funny structure tricks, it's like, really set up and explained. And this movie almost immediately reminded me so much of Thin Red Line.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And that it feels like it's editing based on emotions.

[Griffin Newman]

That's interesting, Grace. So, you know, I will say the Odyssey. I'm gonna. Am I the only reader of the Odyssey in the room right now? Not to Odyssey Mog anyone.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I mean, I still.

[Griffin Newman]

Poetry mod. Sure. Okay. So you read it.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I have no memory of it, really, but I have brushed up a little bit. And just watching some YouTube guides, I

[David Sims]

bought a graphic novel version of it with pictures.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Who did. Who did this graphic novel?

[Griffin Newman]

It would be a disaster if the graphic novel didn't have pictures.

[David Sims]

That would be a huge miss Big bummer. Gareth Hines.

[Griffin Newman]

I've seen this. I think my wife has used this as a teaching aid because she teaches the Odyssey.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Your wife teaches the Odyssey?

[Griffin Newman]

She does, she does. But, like, you know, the first four books of the Odyssey are from Telemachus perspective. They do have this kind of prologue, kind of like, where's Odysseus?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

You know, like the son of Odysseus.

[Griffin Newman]

We should say Telemachus is the son of Odysseus and he is played by Tom Holland in the film. You guys notice that?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Peter Parker.

[Griffin Newman]

Peter Parker himself. Nathan Drake himself.

[David Sims]

Did you guys see the video of Tom Holland and Matt Damon doing a, like, junket thing where they had to

[Ben Hall Hosley]

guess make a pizza?

[Griffin Newman]

I did not see the one where they had to make pizza. What did they have to guess?

[David Sims]

They have to guess which of their films by just the colors of the frames. You ever see the movie Lutz thing or whatever?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, that's a fun game. It's tough to put those two filmographies next to each other.

[David Sims]

Well, that was what was really fucking funny, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Damon has, like, eight masterpieces.

[David Sims]

Okay, so is this movie the Departed,

[Griffin Newman]

Interstellar, or One of the 14 Soderbergh movies I made? And Tom Holland's like, is this chaos walking?

[David Sims]

No, for Tom Holland, they gave him. They gave him. Gave him three sp. His three Spider man movies.

[Griffin Newman]

And he had to get.

[David Sims]

They all looked the same. I wouldn't be. It was so sad. I felt so bad for him.

[Griffin Newman]

Is this the. I mean, he. I think the Lost City of Z is my favorite movie. That he's.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You love that film. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But then I think this is a. This is a huge challenger. I don't see anything else in his filmography that I would really vault up the list here. He had a wild.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I mean, obviously, no Way Home was so fucking humongous and was, you know, one of the first in a series of movies that saved Hollywood after the pandemic. Right. And it got a little erased by Top Gun and Maverick. And Top Gun, Maverick and Barbie and Oppenheimer and some of the movies.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a phenomenon. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

This is one of the ten highest grossing films of all time. And he's been a little silent, and I think there's been a couple years for all of us to stroke our chins and be like, is he juiceless? Like, where the fuck does his career go at this point? Especially. Because everything he tried to do outside of Spider man really didn't work. And yet he's about to be the undisputed king of the summer box office.

[Griffin Newman]

It's true.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He's about to have a humongous fucking summer.

[Griffin Newman]

He's gonna have a huge. It's just July King needs to be July.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Sully could have only dreamed of the kind of July he's having.

[Griffin Newman]

That's so true.

[David Sims]

I think he was very well cast in this movie.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I thought he was well deployed in this way. I think he's.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You know what?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna give him his flowers. I think he's good in the film. I know some people are like, ah. No, I just sort of felt like Tom Hollandy to me. But, no, I think he.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No, I think he's good.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he really unders. He's really. He's good at playing someone who needs to learn, like, and mature and grow, like. And I'm not saying that as a.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes, as a nag on here. No. The problem with him is gonna be the. Can he ever age into anything else?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not sure. I saw him saying in an interview, like, I think this will be the last time. I'm kind of playing a kid. And I was like, maybe.

[David Sims]

I know. I know that he is 30.

[Griffin Newman]

He is 30.

[David Sims]

I cannot believe that he is 30.

[Griffin Newman]

I know you do have a baby face, but it reminded me a lot of his Lost City of Zed performance. Like, it did.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You know, like, there's that John Mulaney joke of I'm sober, which I know is surprising to people because I look like someone who hasn't done anything before.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He's just sitting In a room eating crackers.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

A lot of this Odyssey Spider man promo tour has been Tom Holland pushing bureau his non alcohol beer alternative. And that's another thing where you're like, I can't believe you're old enough to be sober now.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm happy for him that he. I'm so happy he's got whatever equilibrium he desires or whatever. But yes, it is interesting, but he

[Ben Hall Hosley]

reads as perpetually 16.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he does, he does. Which is why he's in this role in which literally the point is that he is not of age yet. Like the point of the Odyssey is like you are Odysseus, son. You are a strong young man, but you cannot inherit his throne yet. So I got to keep weaving this fucking thing until he comes back and

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I say, hollywood, thank you for your service. How about you sit here in the corner and you do your thing and we're just going to wait on Matt Damon to come back.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

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[Ben Hall Hosley]

David? Yes. You hear that?

[Griffin Newman]

Vaguely, yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But you're wondering who's that knocking at your door, right?

[Griffin Newman]

I have no idea.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, it's also of course because Blank Check is returning to the Bell House, a place famous for having a door

[Griffin Newman]

they do have that price is lousy with doors.

[David Sims]

Lots of doors.

[Griffin Newman]

We will be live Friday, October 16th at 7:30 at the Bell House in Brooklyn, New York. You can join us for a night of pure cinema.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, that was quotes and accompanied by the hand.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got the meme right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

David is doing the Marty mate, which is almost as good as the whale face because that's sort of the theme of our live show.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. We'll be joined by some special guests to discuss the man, the myth, the Marty for an episode accompanying our miniseries on the films of Martin Scorsese. More details to be revealed, but it'll be Scorsese adjacent in some way or other.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It'll be a Martypalooza. And tickets will go on sale to the General Public. Thursday, July 23rd at noon Eastern time. For more information, go to The Bell House ny.com show.

[Griffin Newman]

So the Odyssey. It is a film directed by Christopher Nolan and it does begin with Travis Scott. The great Travis Scott, a friend of Christopher Nolan's.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

They're best buds, right? Don't they send each other gifts and shit? They are friendly because Travis Scott had a song in tenet. I feel like that was their initial.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And he's got the end credit song in this and.

[Griffin Newman]

And you know, it begins with him trying, you know, he's going to sing the song of Odysseus. He's. And it's clearly Nolan, like taking you by the shoulders and being like. You have to understand that this storytelling form exists now and has just evolved. Like, it has just changed and like. But he's like. It's a real mission statement moment for him where he's just like, this is still what we do. We tell like stories through verse to each other. It's so good. I was so startled by it.

[David Sims]

The first five minutes of the movie played in front of another movie. Is that true?

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, no, no, no. The prologue, which I saw is the Trojan sequence, which is much later in the movie.

[David Sims]

Okay. Because the horse. I really tried not to see a ton of marketing for this movie. Like, I saw the teaser trailer, whatever it was where Tom Holland was like, my dad's coming home or whatever. And I saw that and I was like, like, this doesn't look good to me. But I'm so. I'm not gonna watch anything else because I trust Christopher Nolan and you wanna

[Ben Hall Hosley]

see it in context.

[David Sims]

I wanna see it in context. But then I know that I don't know what movie they put it in front of an imax. But some people did get to see the prologue.

[Griffin Newman]

You could see it if you bought a ticket to an imax. So I saw. I bought a ticket to the Sinners re release just to watch it.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It was also in front of one battle, I think. I can't remember. It was the fall of. It was like a little sizzle reel basically.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

But it was not like the first fight it wasn't like Dark Knight Rises where it was truly just like, let's watch the opening.

[David Sims]

Because I too was genuinely shocked that the movie, the first shot of the movie is Travis Scott saying, sing oh Muse. And so I was like, oh, did people know this was coming if they saw the preview?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'll also say Sam Clements of Picture House, aforementioned, goes to like the European equivalents of Cinemacon. And he said that a month or two ago. They showed what they said was the opening of the movie and it was very different than this. It was constructed differently. So it feels like they've been. The editing of this movie feels very free flowing. I could see this being a thing that he kept iterating on until the last second. But to your point of the Travis Scott thing and the stupid controversies that existed around this movie, which Nolan very wisely didn't really weigh in on until recently. He had to do the press tour. And then I thought he put it perfectly, which is, you know, a lot of people were complaining that there were things in the trailers and the posters and fucking whatever that seemed too modern or too casual or didn't seem historically accurate. And this is partially a trap of Nolan's own making in that his fans have come to build this sort of mythology around him of being like the guy who takes everything the most seriously. Whereas that has never been his thing. There's always been silliness in his movies. There's always been flights of fancy and stylization in his movies. He is a literal minded guy in a certain kind of way, but it doesn't mean that he's a guy who just is like nothing but the facts, ma'. Am. And he said, you know, so much of what people consider to be accurate in these types of movies is based on iteration of theatrical traditions, of how we tell these stories, these things like that we like to think of, of people speaking in Shakespearean accents in a certain language is like a theatrical form that we use to connote seriousness that is put on epics like this. And as you said, this movie is starting out and being like, this is the tradition that this is in. And we're gonna translate this into something that feels urgent to you right now, a modern audience, rather than trying to gloss it up in some sort of sense of seriousness, right? And then you almost immediately go to the beaches with the horse, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you sort of do. It's basically like he's starting to tell the story and you see Elliot Page getting pinned to the horse. But then what isn't it? Penelope And Hathaway is like, no, I don't want to hear the fucking story. Because the point is, it's like, enough of this. We've been singing the song Odysseus for so long, but where is he? If we heard he did this, where then why hasn't he come back if they won?

[David Sims]

Other guys came back. Where's my husband?

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

The other guys came back.

[Griffin Newman]

And meanwhile. Meanwhile.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And Mark Wahlberg came back.

[Griffin Newman]

Odysseus is on a beach with Charlize Theron. And, you know, send help vibes, obviously.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Nice work if you can get it.

[Griffin Newman]

Vibes.

[David Sims]

I love when she wears that little, like, fishnet thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I was like, ooh, that's so couture.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

She's the catch of the day.

[David Sims]

She really is, David.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

She's the catch of the day.

[Griffin Newman]

I understand what you're saying. I would say she actually is the catch of the day. She caught him.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And she's like, well, then maybe feeding his ass. Lotus.

[Griffin Newman]

I know he really likes that lotus flower. It doesn't look who it was.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Very pretty.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Control.

[Griffin Newman]

It didn't look appetizing to me.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It doesn't look filling.

[David Sims]

About how it feels.

[Griffin Newman]

I understand.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I could use some lotus sometimes. Definitely lately.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, I mean, once in a while you got a lotus knight.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I mean, you know, you need to pull a petal.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep. Or two. Mike White. He could use the lotus.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He could use it. I think he's got more than enough of it. He should share the lotus.

[Griffin Newman]

He should. You're right. He should share the lotus.

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I was trying to figure out a white Lotus joke.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Can Mike White share the lotus?

[Griffin Newman]

Please Just share the lotus.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Mike White, share the lotus. Mike White did.

[Griffin Newman]

I just saw something that he wrote. What was it? Oh, yeah, Just pick up on E4.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

He has a writing credit on that one.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And on three, maybe he's got him on two of them. Am I wrong?

[Griffin Newman]

Let's find out.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He also wrote Migration. He's. He's.

[Griffin Newman]

He wrote Migration. He has no other minion credits, but of course he wrote the emoji movie.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's. Okay. There we help. Which is not illumination. But I lump in in my mind.

[Griffin Newman]

And he did Write Pitch Perfect 3 and no others.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. Weird. We both were watching through all the despicable Me and Minions movies in anticipation of Minions and monsters simultaneously.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And it was very funny for you and I to check in with each other and be like, yup, still don't like these very much.

[Griffin Newman]

Not too much, anyway. I like the Minions.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Two more to watch, right? Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but they never really me. Those. Those earlier ones.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

See, you were, like, way out on Gru and really in on the Minions, and I'm a little bit in on Gru, and I'm not that in on the Minions, and both of us were just, like. Not my cup of tea. Some stuff I like. Anyway.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't like Gru. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to kind of like her.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And you know who I really like?

[David Sims]

Gru's mom.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No, Gru's wife, Lucy, who is her own person, who has a lipstick taser and I think is quite fetching.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, she's okay. Played by Kristen Wiig. I'm glad she's cashing the checks. I'm glad everyone's cashing their checks.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You know, direct deposit on that one, right? No one's taking the time to run those to the bank. No, they're doing mobile deposit, or at worst, they're taking the photo on their phone.

[David Sims]

Do you think that the Cyclops in Christopher Nolan's version of the Odyssey would have been harmed by stepping on a Lego in the way that the Cyclops in the Minions version of the Odyssey was?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I mean, that whole sequence would be over in two minutes if Odysseus had thought to carve a Lego block.

[David Sims]

Mm.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's all he needed to do. The Minions had the answer. Henry and James. I wanted to bring up that we see Elliot Page, whose character is Synanon Sinan. Yes. And the horse. So early because this movie feels very haunted by the horse. The horse is very forward in the marketing. It's on the poster. They've been putting the horse up outside of theaters. There's a horse popcorn bucket. And I assumed, oh, there's probably a big horse set piece. But that's not the main story that Nolan wants to tell, is just the hiding in the horse. But this movie keeps cutting back to the horse as, like, this thing that fucking haunts Odysseus. That the thing that he's most known for, what is seen as his greatest triumph, he can kind of never get over what feels like the dishonesty of it. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

So this is, I would say, the brilliant conceit of this movie. And it's clear that Nolan, you know, is like, okay, I'll do the Odyssey. He's sitting in his chair, drinking a cup of tea, not having a smartphone, and he's like, perhaps the Odyssey, but, like, the Odyssey is the original, great tale of Western storytelling or whatever, but it is not something that you can locate emotion in easily. But it is. If you read the Odyssey, it is obsessed with hospitality. That's a huge part of the poem. The idea. The ancient Greek notion of hospitality, and they call it Zeus's law here, the sort of be kind to welcome a stranger to your home.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And like any simple beggar might actually be your co host in disguise over zoom.

[Griffin Newman]

And might have wonderful Seth Bulakasque facial hair and all that. And it's a simple idea because, like, both the Iliad, which is also by Homer quote unquote, you know, we don't really. And the Odyssey, those things are not like. And we really fucked Troy over. Those things are like, it rocked when we smashed Troy to pieces. And you're, you know, yourself. But, like, it's very simple for Nolan, but it's very clever for him to be like, it's kind of fucked up. You know, we, you know, kind of lied our way in there and then we sacked the city. And I think it's a lie to

[Ben Hall Hosley]

put a bunch of soldiers in a

[Griffin Newman]

horse and to make this sort of, like, notion of like, Odysseus. Right. Is weighted with the guilt of, like, we did kind of defy the gods by doing that.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And like, we are the ones who maybe have contributed to the feeling that society is ending around us and makes the film feel contemporary without it feeling didactic to me.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Like, I was just a social contract.

[Griffin Newman]

I kind of can't believe he pulled that off in this movie. Much like Oppenheimer's the same way, Right. Where it's very haunted by the world we live in now. Oppenheimer made the terrible world we live in now. He didn't mean to. He was just smashing bits together in his particle accelerator or whatever.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, and fucking everyone's wives.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Nolan movies because he has become the guy at the top of the mountain. He has become the person who represents filmmaking globally sort of as an idea and certainly as an industry. And now is literally also the president of the dga. A guy at his level of career rarely takes on an elected position like that, except it feels like he's like, there's too much at stake and my people need me and I have to fight for them. All of his movies have increasingly become about two things. One, I am the only one who can do this. The burden is heavy on me, but I must do this for everyone else. Two, what have I done? Oh, sweet Jesus, what have I done? And this is a movie about a guy who's like, I need to do this for everybody. Else. And the final shot of the movie is literally the shadow of the Trojan horse. It's like he cannot get out from under that shadow. It's one of the first things we see. And the shadow, the silhouette is the last thing we see.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it's beautiful stuff. Do you guys know about the sea people theory of Bronze Age collapse? Can I. Very briefly.

[David Sims]

That's, like, what they were talking about.

[Griffin Newman]

This is what I'm saying.

[David Sims]

The sea people that were ruining everything,

[Griffin Newman]

you know, so sort of during the late Bronze Age, all of the major, major civilizations in the Mediterranean basically collapsed. And no one knows why, because it was so freaking long ago. So we can't really. We're talking like the 12th century BC or whatever.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And it led to the first Dark Age.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? Not. Not the lovely Dark age we like to think about, which is like, you know, whatever, like the 8th century and people rattling, you know, I don't know, carts and stuff. What do people do in that Dark Age? Wearing big rattle carts. Yeah. Coughing blood into rats, you know, but, like the. Right. The old, old dark age. And one of these notions is like, the. The sea people. Like, it's like an academic theory that, like, these kingdoms were done in by invaders and no one knows who or even why or except for. But, like. And I just love Nolan picking out on that and having that be this, like, looming threat in the movie. And then of course, at the end, it's like, well, no, well, we are.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

We're the.

[David Sims]

We're the secret.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, we're the ones who ruin civilization. Like, going to do a stupid war that sucked for no good reason and then returning home to, like, you know, like, places, you know, our homes were in turmoil and, like, with civility gone and everyone at each other's throats and getting stabbed. Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I also think yes. And within that framework, you realize that the big set pieces of the Odyssey as a story are mostly about them being bad guests. It's like, we just gotta get home. And they land in a different place and come across a different creature and just kind of are shitty houseguests over and over and over again.

[Griffin Newman]

There's that early moment where they show up on some beach and the guys have, like, burned their houses and are in a bad mood. And Himis Fratell is like, we're Greeks. Like, we're not threatening. Like, you know, and then, like, even though he's, like, in armor and has his sword, why are you scared of us? And the guy's like, oh, fuck. You see, people, leave me alone.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Let's clarify. They pull up, their whole town is on fire. He's like, why? He's like, we saw people coming. We thought we'd just get this over with. Like, rather than let you burn us to the ground, we'll burn ourselves down. Like, that's the level of paranoia and exhaustion everyone's at.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, but. Okay, so let me. Let me try and unpack the. The flow of the story here. So, yes, the first bit, obviously, is just, we're in Ithaca. We're with Telemachus. Penelope is in a bad mood.

[David Sims]

I was.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

She is many a suitor.

[David Sims]

I was really impressed by how cunty Anne Hathaway was in this role.

[Griffin Newman]

She's great in this movie.

[David Sims]

She's great.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

David, what did you text Anne Hathaway the other day? Because I worded this very well.

[Griffin Newman]

Someone was noting what a busy year she's having.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Six movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it six?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'm gonna look at it. Mother Mary, Devil wears Prada 2, the Odyssey, Oak Street, Verity, Oak Street. Oak Street. And I believe there's one more that I am forgetting. No, it's just five.

[Griffin Newman]

Just five.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's just five.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a movie called Alone at Dawn. That's a Ron Howard movie.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

With Adam Driver, but I'm not sure if we know when that's coming out. It'll come out eventually.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, now that I know it's only five, she seems.

[Griffin Newman]

Like I said, Anne Hathaway is a gift to Hollywood that we should always be thankful for. And I certainly believe that the range of just.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Even the three movies she's had out so far is pretty astonishing.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's also interesting because, like, it's not like Anne Hathawaid had. She's been working like, she didn't go dark, but it was sort of like

[Ben Hall Hosley]

the size of the movies had shrunk a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And, like, after Ocean's Eight, which she's great in, but even that's a supporting role or whatever, you know, she's got that weird serenity. The Hustle, Dark Waters year, where, like, we love serenity, but it's. It's a weird one. The Hustle was filmed, like, seven years prior. Dark Waters is a wonderful movie, but she's kind of just showing up to help.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. As you said, that was a tax deductible.

[David Sims]

Last thing he wanted. Disaster.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Last thing he wanted is one of those movies where you're like, did they forget to finish it? Like, sorry.

[David Sims]

That movie, the Witches.

[Griffin Newman]

The Witches obviously was five stars. We love that one on Blank Check.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

All these movies are in one of two categories. She tried something smaller and more interesting and it worked or it didn't. Or a real failed attempt at a major movie. So the stuff she's doing that's good is not really at the center of the culture. And the stuff that's attempting to be at the center of the culture is not working.

[Griffin Newman]

But then locked down. We're going to give everyone a pass on that one. The Pandemic and everyone. Right. Armageddon in Time again. She's great. But it does it a little bit again. Kind of like I'm here to help this movie along.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Not.

[Griffin Newman]

And then I did like. But it didn't really go anywhere so good. She's actually great.

[David Sims]

Eileen.

[Griffin Newman]

I did not see the Rebecca Miller film. She Came to Me.

[David Sims]

Me neither.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No. Which is her and Dinklage and Who's the other?

[David Sims]

Marisa Tomei.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, Marisa. To.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And then.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And then there was the Mother's Curse or whatever that movie's called.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Her. Her very kind of like trashy 2024 of mother's instinct. And the idea of you.

[David Sims]

The idea of you is good.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's not.

[David Sims]

Yes, it is. It is good.

[Griffin Newman]

She's good in it and I respect her. That movie is not good.

[David Sims]

That movie is good. The boy band in it.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Good was a streaming hit.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a big streaming hit. I don't think Michael Showalter is capable of. Of telling a story like that with sincerity, I guess.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You don't think he knows how to put on a show?

[David Sims]

Walter, I. You know what? I found it.

[Griffin Newman]

Sometimes he does.

[David Sims]

I found it very sincere. I liked when they were in their hotel room kind of like kissing and dancing. Dance hall days.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah. There you go. But you were saying basically last year she was quiet because a lot of her 25 movies got pushed back to 25.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Mother Mary got pushed to early.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah. And Oak street got pushed.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Can't wait for whatever the heck that is.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I know this is kind of her big center stage year, and I love that it's such an array of even different sized roles and different styles of performance. She's so kind of stripped down in this. Like, she's really just sort of laser focused.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And she's not doing any of the theater kid stuff that people sometimes bristle at. And I think it's. It's why she's so good and why, as you put it, she's a gift to Hollywood because it's like she's like an old school movie star who can do Any type of thing.

[Griffin Newman]

She really is. And, you know, like, the scenes she has, the flashbacks with Damon before he goes to war are really, like, simple and beautifully done and get all the emotion across very fast.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Also fucking sexy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But, like, you have very little time to establish a sense of genuine chemistry between those two characters. And you're doing it late into the film, and immediately you're like, there's heat here. There's a reason why she's not remarrying.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah. I mean, look, Robert Pattinson is a handsome fellow. Okay. I wouldn't marry this asshole. Right. Would you?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

This guy. This guy's an asshole.

[David Sims]

Are we.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Are we. Can we say he's an.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He's an.

[Griffin Newman]

He is so good. I just love that he is always game, like, you know, that he's not, like, whatever, like, looking for the sympathetic role or looking for the, you know, like, he just wants to play little slimy freaks. And he's so good at.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Announced that Batman is being pushed back another six months, and people are wringing their hands over it. And I'm like, there is no better outcome than Robert Pattinson having six years in between Batman movies to do whatever weird shit he wants to do. Batman's the ultimate hammock in between. He's just given latitude to do whatever because they go, like, as long as you promise you're going to put that cowl back on, we'll let you play your worms.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got. And he's got five movies in this year, too. He's got. He's having a crazy year here.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay, wait, so it's this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's prime time.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Which I hear is great.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's the drama. And then the other two are. Have neither of them have yet to come out correct.

[David Sims]

One. We just got a trailer for. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Dune Part three. And then what's the fifth movie?

[Griffin Newman]

It's the Fernando Merrill film Here Comes the Flood with him and Denzel Washington.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

Netflix thriller. But does sound very cool. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So he's all over the place, and he's doing different voices and he's having fun being a little sicko. And he is. Yeah, he's the lead suitor here. He likened the character to James Wood's character, Lester diamond from the 1995 film

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Casino, which we will be talking about soon. Just a classic Robert Pattinson pull to, like, read the Odyssey and go, like, you know what? This character's like James Woods.

[David Sims]

James woods in Casino.

[Griffin Newman]

You've also got the great. Corey Hawkins is like, Those are the, the like the main two suitor jerks I feel like. Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He's sort of the right hand man. Yeah. I think he's just a total gem.

[Griffin Newman]

He's always good. Love, Corey Hawkins.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. He's not working enough.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And then Logan Marshall Green and Mia Goth are the two kind of Grima Wormtongues of the palace. Right.

[David Sims]

She's the servant to Penelope.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I think it's unspoken in the movie, but they are twins. They're siblings. Marshall Green and Mia Goth. In the myth of the Odyssey, they're the bad servants. They are not being, they're not, you know, tending to Odysseus's flock. Now who is Leguizamo?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Leguizamo being blind, he can see more clearly than everyone.

[Griffin Newman]

There's, there is a bit of a. Yeah, there's an irony there. It's true.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

A real irony.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

So a little. Real rude for him to throw a dog off a cliff right at the stop of the movie.

[David Sims]

David and I were concerned. One of the first things we said after we got out of the movie was we were worried how Ben was going to take the. The dog violence in this film.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's the kind of thing that does turn Ben off completely sometimes, but I

[Marie Barty Salinas]

think because he did it like so early in the film, it felt like just pulling the band aid off. And then of course they treat the other dog, Odysseus dog, really well, even though he's like old and sad and waiting for Odysseus to return home.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think they also. The inhumanity of how the animals are treated is used as a dramatic storytelling tool for the rot of society.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It is not something that is done callously. It's not using it just to shock you.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, not at all. No. I think all the stakes of their like, like, because yes, there's the argument for like, shouldn't we shoot this movie out of a cannon? Shouldn't we start with something really exciting? And it's like now you just sort of. It's not just that he wants to go home. You're like, his home is like ruined without him. Like, it's like he's.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You're starting with the vacuum missing.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's just like. Yeah, it's, it's ruining everything.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's what the story is really about. The fact that this guy's fucking gone.

[David Sims]

And there are like two main sort of narrative or storytelling devices, I guess. The first is Tom Holland hearing stories about his father, sure. As he, who he's never met. Essentially, he was a baby.

[Griffin Newman]

He was a wee baby when he left.

[David Sims]

When he left. So he is traveling and hearing stories from other people, most notably Jon Bernthal.

[Griffin Newman]

John Bernthal. Let me tell you something.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Like the fifth season of Serial. And pull enough stories together from his dad to get a good narrative going.

[David Sims]

And then the other. On the other end, we have Matt Damon with Calypso, played by Charlize Theron. And she is kind of goading him to remember how he ended up. How did I get here? What happened to my men?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But also being like, do you really want to remember? Doesn't remember anything.

[David Sims]

Are you ready yet? Doesn't it suck? Here, have some more lotus, baby.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, take some lotus.

[Griffin Newman]

We're right. We're sort of like trying to put the pieces together of like, okay, what happened? Where are his men? What happened? Why hasn't he come home? And then I feel like the first. Then we do find, you know, okay, what do you remember? We do finally get to them, like, getting on the boat and I guess is the first place they go to. You know, the Cyclops. Right. Like, that's the first sort of major sequence.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's the first major set piece in Odysseus's story.

[David Sims]

We also establish what life was like back on Ithaca before Odysseus left. We meet young Robert Pattinson and young Elliot Page.

[Griffin Newman]

That's true.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I was gonna say. Yes.

[David Sims]

This set up very early on, you know, a very upsetting dynamic of.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

What is Pattinson's character's name again?

[Griffin Newman]

It's like Antonius or whatever. Antonias. He's.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, but the volunteering.

[Griffin Newman]

Marie Antinius. Antinius, maybe Antinius. I don't know. I don't know. What do I know?

[David Sims]

Every time I watch something where it's like little boys going off to war. This also happens in Horatio Hornblower and in Master and Commander. I just get very upset.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, I think it shouldn't happen.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

But they're drawing sticks.

[Griffin Newman]

They're trying lots. Yeah, like a short stick gets you on the bone.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Odysseus cousin Sinon draws Elliot Page. Elliot Page draws whatever the stick. That means that he has to go to war.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

They say there's a lottery draft going on. They need to build an army. It's a lottery draft. And Sinon gets picked, who is a very small child. And the Pattinson character sort of volunteers to go in its steady. Not just out of some generosity, but also because of, I think, an ego of wanting to be a big, tough boy. He's a little older. He's A teenager. And Odysseus puts his foot down and goes, like, it's gotta be who's chosen. And also says to the Pattinson character,

[Griffin Newman]

no, no, no, no, no. It's. Pattinson draws the short stick. Sinon is put in his place.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. The whole point is that Antonio's ducked the draft.

[David Sims]

Correct.

[Griffin Newman]

That's why him giving the lot back to him is. This is your shame.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I misread that.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

See, I also so didn't get that right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, it's like Antonius is the. I think, you know, the richer he. Because he is like, one of the big wigs or his family.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

On Ithaca, one assumes that's why he's.

[David Sims]

So he takes the. The. The. The littler guy and, like, to take his place.

[Griffin Newman]

They're saying that Odysseus basically kind of knew what was happening and overlooked it or. Or, like, didn't put his foot down because, like, he knows, like, he doesn't want to wound the pride of the parents, like they. They say. And this will all be helpful on rewatch, I will say, because, like, this information, the classic Nolan thing of this information is being, like, hydraulically delivered to you in voiceover and flashback. And you're like, okay, okay, okay, okay. And you can tell, like, it's the Nolan thing where he's like, this will matter later. Like, you need to know all the context.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I mean, that happens in, like, the first 10 minutes. Very early on. You barely met the characters.

[Griffin Newman]

We have not met the characters. And I did not even totally track that, you know, that Sinon had become, you know, Elliot Page had grown up to be. Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Because Legazamo says something to the effect of. Of, you know, he. He needed to do things to help the ego. And basically Odysseus says this thing of. No, it's actually good if you stay because you need to watch after your family and watch after my family as well, which kind of poisons him with the idea of, oh, I have a responsibility to watch your family. I should probably. Your wife. If you disappear, that's kind of the implication, is it not? You know, that that's. He goes, message received. I got it. So if you're gone for, like, five years, I should start trying to fuck your wife.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, maybe Greek law rules on this. Okay, Maybe there should be time limits. Yes, but. Okay, so. But no, no, we're with Odysseus and it's post Troy. We still haven't really seen the sack of Troy, but we've seen little glimpses of the horse and all that. And, God, the horse looks so good.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Pretty cool.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Really. Awesome.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

And he sees, you know, Agamemnon, played by Benny Safdie, in this crazy, imposing armor Nolan wanted him to have. He has. What's it called? It's called Black Brawn and Sulfur in his armor, which Nolan was like, these were, like, the most expensive sort of materials back then, so we wanted him to have this.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Got a gold spine on the back of his helmet, too.

[Griffin Newman]

It is so funny that it's Benny Safdie. It is not that he's not good. He is good.

[David Sims]

We never see his face.

[Griffin Newman]

Not really. We see his beautiful hair.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, we see his face through a slit. We see the. Yeah, the.

[David Sims]

It is interesting, though, that that was the main. Like, one of the main posters for the film.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Was the back of the back of

[David Sims]

Agni Mem's head, like the helmet.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I wonder how much he kind of just likes that imagery and how much it. Is that, like. Much like the shadow of the horse, the sort of, like, image of Agamemnon's armor without ever seeing the guy inside, represents this force that's pushing everything along.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I mean. And, you know, I. I interviewed Benny Safdie last year. I told you this, Marie.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And he had just finished the Odyssey. And I was like, who are you playing? And I just. I just assumed he was gonna be playing some weirdo. Like, I was like, of course Safdie's gonna play, like. I don't know. Yeah. Like a. A weird little trickster or, you know.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

A mean suitor. And he was like. I can't tell you, but I. We were just in Iceland, like, shooting on this, like, black beach is what he gets. And then obviously, that's the, like, afterlife sequencer.

[David Sims]

That was another favorite sequence in the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

This is really great.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But you can't never see his face. It's like the idea of him looms so large. And most directors, I think, would go, oh, so then what you should cast in this role is either a stunt performer, because this is mostly gonna be physical. It's gonna be who fills the suit, or cast a guy with a voice like Clancy Brown, because it's mostly going to be booming voice if you're not going to see their face. And as you say, it's so funny that he cast Benny Safdie, who's such, like, a Presence. Energy guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And is also, like, a sensitivity guy.

[Griffin Newman]

But Safdie is. I will say, he's very tall. He's like 6:1 and he has this great hair. And maybe Nolan just kind of liked the physicality.

[David Sims]

I appreciate it. I think, you know, you guys bring this up. You brought this up a lot in the Peter Weir series. The casting for the final color thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

And I do think that when we get the backstory of what happened to him and when he is in Hades and he is speaking from the dead.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

There is like a pathos to it that it really got to me.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You need to be able to unravel this guy. You need to be able to strip away the sort of imagery and the mythology of him to get to a sort of broken person inside eventually.

[David Sims]

So I. I'm not really a big ancient Greece person. And I was asking David Sims on the subway home from the movie. I was like, I want to keep living in this world. So, like, what movies should I watch next?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, I wasn't even thinking movies. I was gonna suggest a Time Machine was my favorite.

[David Sims]

That seems a little expensive, but sure. You know, I did pay $4.99 to rent Troy on Amazon Prize.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I want to talk about this briefly. I'm very confused by this recent holding up of Troy as the gold standard.

[David Sims]

Griffin, we gotta get into it. That movie is fucking dogshit. I hadn't seen it until like, this week when I watched it after the Odyssey, which is a masterpiece. And there is, you know, it's a. The. The Iliad is part one, the Odyssey Part two, you know, so it's like a prequel. A lot of the same characters are in there. What the fuck? What's going on there?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Hollow movie in my memory, right.

[Griffin Newman]

I hated it when it came out. I thought it was a bomb. People didn't like it when it came out. It got bad reviews. It made money.

[David Sims]

It made a lot of money.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a hit.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But it got taken seriously.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it got no Oscar attention after, like, you know, in the warm up, because of movies like Gladiator, people were like, maybe this will be epic.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Totally.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, And I pointed out to you it is the same year as Alexander. There were two, like, giant budget swings at, like, great. Well, if Gladiator wins Best Picture, what other, like, epics can we do? And they did the most obvious. They did the Iliad and they did Alexander the Great. Like, they did the most obvious ones possible. Both of those movies are flawed. Troy made a lot of money, but sucks. Alexander didn't make enough money, but is very interesting in my opinion.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And then they both have the Director's cut DVD Re edit.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, I fixed it. And you're like. Like, no.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Not sure that you did. I mean, the big problem with Troy, it's the ultimate pit thing of, like, he sucks at this. He's so good at playing squirrely weirdo. He's actually not good at playing the hero, the alpha. Like, that's not what he likes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's also. That's his Cat in the hat. That's. He has to make that movie because he pulled out of the fountain. Warner Brothers were like, you owe us a movie. And he was like, oh, ugh, do I have to do some movie star shit?

[David Sims]

He's really blonde in it.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I remember him looking great.

[David Sims]

I wasn't into it. Yeah. But the thing that was really sending me, like, watching it immediately after the Odyssey was that Brian Cox is playing Agamemnon.

[Griffin Newman]

He is Agamemnon.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. Very similar to Penny Safdie.

[David Sims]

And I'm just like, wow, these are two very, very different interpretations of this character.

[Griffin Newman]

Brendan Gleason plays Menelaus.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And who plays Odysseus?

[Griffin Newman]

Sean Bean.

[David Sims]

Sean Bean.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the best part of the movie.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Sean Bean's fine.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

See, I don't even remember it that well, but I just remember it being like it's all surface level. It feels like an impression of a type of movie, a type of epic that actually has ideas within it. And it's only absorbed the aesthetics.

[David Sims]

The ideas that are in Troy are not ideas about, like, man and psychology. They're more like mapping, like, political and historical ideas of war onto a myth, which is not that interesting to me.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I agree with you. I don't find that interesting.

[David Sims]

I'm more interested in the interiority, which is what the Odyssey is. It's like, it's such a psychological story while also being really epic visually.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's why I related this to Thin Red Line is A, your perspective character is changing a lot throughout the movie, and B, it feels like you're often kind of editing laterally through the character's memories and thoughts and feelings. It is so much trying to find a way to put you in the inner life of these people rather than zooming out and turning it into mythology.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right. So, Dave, I gotta ask, since we're talking about the Iliad and how that story then relates to the Odyssey, how do you feel about them? Not really including a lot of the gods in this story. In this film, we really only get mention of Athena, of Zeus, and they

[Griffin Newman]

talk about the gods on Poseidon.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And Poseidon mention Poseidon But I'm saying we only really see Athena.

[Griffin Newman]

So the thing in the Odyssey, the story is, for example, one of the important moments in the Odyssey is that Odysseus is stuck on the island with Calypso. In this movie, he has this emotional realization of, like, right, I'm ready to go home. I'm accepting the loss of my men.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it's this big. In the Odyssey, Hermes, the messenger God, shows up and is like, hey, time to go.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And this is like, oh, fuck. Okay. He's like, come on, boats this way. That happens a lot in the poem. The gods show up and they're like, totally.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I mean, even the reason that Helen ends up in Troy is because of intervention from the gods, Right?

[Griffin Newman]

And so obviously that's a little dramatically not going to. You know, that won't work.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

You know, he made that choice. It's just when you go back to the source material, I mean, especially in the Iliad, it's like the. The. Like the children of the gods are, you know, are all kind of connected.

[Griffin Newman]

And Zeus sees a lady and it's like, okay,

[David Sims]

turn into a swan. Her.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

She. She has eggs. And that one of the children that come out of the eggs is Helen.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Can I do a tiny little Merc Spotlight? Look at what they were giving out at the screen.

[David Sims]

You got the.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, you got the Athena pin.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I got the Athena pin.

[David Sims]

Oh, we didn't get.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

What did you get then?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I got the Athena.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You got the Athena. They had the Athena and the horse, but you could only take one. I tried to take two, and I got yelled at very loudly.

[David Sims]

Well, the Athena pin feels like that would be my pick because the pin itself is such a. It's such an important part of the movie.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It was before the movie, but I had a feeling this is closer to the movie object, which I always like in my mind.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Penelope gives this pin to Odysseus as a way of remembering her, but also as a symbol to prove that it is him.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes, I saw Interstellar again last week, David, because it was just playing in 70 millimeter in Spain every night, rolling out for two weeks.

[Griffin Newman]

The Classics, right?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. And you said, that's a smart rewatch. I have a feeling these two movies are going to be really paired together.

[Griffin Newman]

And the way it's home.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I mean, Nolan loves his. I feel so bad for leaving. How do I get back home? Kind of movie. I need to get back to my family. I need to get back to my wife. I need to get back to my.

[Griffin Newman]

He's so Tormented by it.

[David Sims]

But he works with his wife.

[Griffin Newman]

I know, but I just feel like he. It's like, clearly this thing that Ren. You know, because, like, so many of his movies have that.

[David Sims]

Well, yeah, I think it's less about the way that he runs his life as an adult, a husband, and as a father, but more of what he experienced as a child when his family was split up.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think it's 50% that, and I think informed by that, it is his worst nightmare. It's the reason he works with his wife and he makes everything a family production is because he can imagine no worse fate than being stuck on a shoot for six months away from his family. Like, he is just such an ultimate wife and family guy that he needs that unit around himself. And so if he's writing an emotional story of a challenge, it's the biggest challenge he can imagine in so many ways. Which is why, you know, people go, why is he so obsessed with the dead wife thing? I like that he has moved away from dead wives and has found a way to tell stories about men longing for their wives that do not require them to be dead. But that scene is so fascinating because the dialogue, even though it's a very different scene where she hands him the pen, feels so similar, having watched it recently, to the final Child Murph scene of like, I'm coming back. I'm coming back. When are you coming back? I can't tell you, but I'm coming back. I just promise you that I'm coming back.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I mean, I think Christopher Nolan is, by and large, a charmed man who leads a wonderful life. And he knows that, like, he's got a great thing going on. But that's clearly the fear that drives him a little bit or whatever. Keeps him up at night, I guess. I mean, he's just. He's very similar to Shyamalan, in my opinion, in this regard. He's just so concerned with, like, the world we're leaving our children with, like, what the future's gonna look like for his family. And he can blow it out, you know, to big, epic scale. But it's, you know, it's what. What makes these movies tick.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The key difference between him and Shyamalan is obviously that Nolan is not very concerned with what if the Devil was in an elevator? Other than that, I think they were very. Not yet.

[David Sims]

Well, we're saying he wants to do a horror movie.

[Griffin Newman]

What if he's like, I'm remaking Devil, the M. Night Shyamalan produced thriller.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That would be the Greatest move in the history of movies.

[Griffin Newman]

I saw Logan Marshall Green on the set of the Odyssey and we started talking about Devil and I said, who has the rights to Devil? And he said, I have them. They cost $1. You can have them right now for one whole dollar. Who directed Devil? Because it wasn't Shyamalan John Eric Dowdle.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

What else has he done?

[Griffin Newman]

He did the remake of the Spanish film Rec.

[David Sims]

Quarantine.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Sure. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You did the Poughkeepsie Tapes, which is one of those fucked up, tiny budget horror movies that everyone talks about.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah. That kind of never got a proper release.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And then he did as above, so below.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, sure, that's the Catacombs movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And then something called no Escape.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah. That is like Owen Wilson is stuck in a country that is having some sort of political uprising.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's Owen Wilson trying to do Behind Enemy Lines. Again, it's like straight survival action, except family there.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The Athena pin is handed to Odysseus as a. If I can't stop you from leaving, then let Athena watch after you. Which does feel like talking about Nolan imagining his worst nightmares. It's like handing him a smartphone. It's saying, if you're gonna leave and be away for a really long time, at least take this pen so Athena can pop in and talk to you all the time. It is such an incredible display of Christopher Nolan's clout that you're like, what does Zendaya play in this movie? Zendaya plays Athena. Athena, the God watching over Odysseus. She shows up at certain times over his shoulder and gives him a look and says, like, one line.

[David Sims]

Zendaya, as an actor is really, really good at doing, like, disappointed face.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Unbelievable at it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

When she makes that face, I'm like, oof. I feel bad.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You don't want her silent judge. But this is the kind of role where you go, oh, it's pretty small. You can't shoot her out three days because she has to be in 20 different countries.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

She has to keep showing up on different ships.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I mean, she's obviously, like, in the movie probably for five minutes total.

[David Sims]

But she makes an impression.

[Griffin Newman]

She makes a huge impression. And she must have been.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, every. Every. I don't know, every small part in this movie is played by someone that has a Wikipedia page.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Like our mutual acquaintance Griffin Shilo Fernandez is in this movie.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. Somewhat briefly.

[David Sims]

He plays one of the Trojan soldiers who I think approaches Elliot Page in the beginning of the movie, never takes his Mask off. But it is crazy that even those guys are played by guy guys.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Totally.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? I mean, who wouldn't want to be on these sets, right?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The beggar in the beginning is James.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I. I asked David, and I didn't.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I believe it's James Remar.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Prophet.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Is he Hades?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Like, tis. Yes. Or whatever his name is. But yeah, he's. He's the guy buried in the sand.

[David Sims]

I recognize. I recognize the bottom.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. While I was trying to pay attention to that scene being like, is that Richard from Sex in the City?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I knew James Remar was one of the two cloaked guys. I don't know who the guy was at the beginning, but he seems so familiar.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

By the time this episode comes out,

[Griffin Newman]

Marie and I were trying to figure out who that was.

[David Sims]

We couldn't figure it out, but I'm sure we will know in a bit.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It speaks to the Nolan mystery box kind of thing. There's still so many actors for this movie with unlisted characters. I'm doing like, the cast has been announced, but it was not really told who was playing what other than the top 10 people.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

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[David Sims]

Just talk. Because the movie is a bit of like an episodic structure. Let's just talk about the scenes.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so, all right. Cyclops. Cyclops is the first big thing. They go to island. They follow some sheep as you do.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

Into a cave.

[David Sims]

There was that nasty moment where Odysseus just sees like giant bags of cheese hanging on the walls of the cave and just eat some.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Just goes, they're hungry, they're tired.

[David Sims]

I guess. I don't know if I would eat cave cheese. Cheese.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know that I would eat random cheese hanging in a cave in

[Marie Barty Salinas]

a sort of where cheese comes from.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it is, in fact, usually it's been for me inspected by a government, one assumes, or at least by somebody like a merchant.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Fair enough.

[Griffin Newman]

A trader.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

If there was a stamp on the bag of Agamemnon, given the thumbs up, would you feel okay if that was the inspection?

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. Or if it was like, you know, cyclop, the important Polyphemus beloved homespun cheese cave or whatever.

[David Sims]

He had a little sign, some sort of branding.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I will admit this because it was a special screening. The BFI south bank, the concessions was not open.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that's.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And I really wanted a popcorn and a soda the whole movie, especially because it's a long film. So when he goes over to the bags of cheese, I went like, that's disgusting. Is he really going to eat this? And then the more he started eating it, I started getting jealous of him.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, kind of go for a bag of cheese. Right now they sell cheese bags. I had to griff a cheese. They had popcorn going at the imax, but they, they had shut down all the other things. So I had to go downstairs, talk to like the ticket taker and be like, hey, I need to go buy some food because I'm gonna like faint if I don't eat something during this three hour movie. And she was like, yeah, whatever.

[David Sims]

So you got chicken nuggets, nachos and popcorn.

[Griffin Newman]

Popcorn, that's right. Is that a problem? Is there a three question? I also got orange soda and the Freestyle machine kind of spat some, like, orange, you know, like the sort of concentrated stuff on me and it looked like I had robbed a bank and like a dye package.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it was very good time.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I did feel borderline faint towards the end of this movie. I was talking to you guys before a record of just how fucking hot it has been in your Europe.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And halfway through every day, I get exhausted just from taking steps.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think Europe has like one air conditioner per country. Right. They kind of keep moving it around.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right. So this. This week, I think Spain has it. And sadly, I'm in London.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I do. You know, it was bad timing to take a Euro trip, you know, for some amount of work. Right. When a heat wave is hitting the entire continent. On the other hand, hand, I feel great that I left the United States and New York in particular at the time that the diarrhea wave is hitting.

[Griffin Newman]

There is. One of my friends has it. Yeah, there is some. There's some diarrhea.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Everyone has the diarrhea my sister had. I don't know if we want to announce that on the podcast. Well, she.

[Griffin Newman]

She posted stack about it.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

She stacked it.

[David Sims]

She stacked it and she grabbed it.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

She gram the ria.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it is fun. No, Griff, I think you're right. Wrong. You would be thriving right now because basically the government is like, you can only eat the most processed food imaginable. Do not touch a vegetable. Leaves are not for you.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Look, everyone. Everyone's complaining about how bad it is. I go, yeah, welcome to my world. Now you know what it feels like for a minute.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Griffin, you're also missing. The wildfires is causing a lot of residual smoke down here. So you also can't really. Or you're not supposed to go outside, which is perfect for a Griffin Newman.

[David Sims]

There's also like the legionnaires outbreak on the Upper east side. So you wouldn't be able to visit your grandma.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's a good point. My grandmother does live on the Upper east side. To dox her. I also say, I mean, Ben, if. If the wildfires from Canada are brushing over into New York City, I imagine it wouldn't be a good time to barbecue. Any smoking I would try to do would get intercepted by the smokes that were not in my control. Yeah, I'm very particular. You know, I'm fruit woods only.

[David Sims]

Have you been trying any of the barbecue in your Europe?

[Griffin Newman]

It's not really a barbecue hub that.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That I've been trying to make my own.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You lugged a A Weber green egg or whatever.

[David Sims]

Some jamon, some smoked.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, I'm smoking some hamon.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I mean, they smoke meat well there, but yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, I. I am smoking meat well here.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

So.

[David Sims]

So.

[Griffin Newman]

So why do you like the Cyclops? Because he. Big boy. We did talk about this a little bit. All right. It's quite scary.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think the sequence is a marvel. I think it is something so uncanny to just make him a guy. I think it gets to. What's the opening title at the beginning of this film?

[David Sims]

It's something like it was a time of magic. Something like that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I can't remember.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Fucked up.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And this is obviously a fantastical story that asks you to believe that centuries and centuries and centuries ago, magical things happened and at some point they just disappeared from the world. Right. And more likely true, actually.

[David Sims]

So.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay, it's all true.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry. The. The opening title is. It is a lawless time. Crime syndicates compete for resources, food, medicine and hyper fuel. On the shipbuilding planet of Corellia, the foul lady Proxima forces runaways into a life of crime in exchange for shelter and protection.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And coaxium. You can. You can smoke that, right? You can keep it hot.

[Griffin Newman]

Coaxium needs to be cool as hell. So we got to keep it away from Madrid right now.

[David Sims]

Cold.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah. In Paris, they got no ac.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It is funny. The Paris, they're just like, no, no, no. The cigarettes have no filters.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The.

[Griffin Newman]

The apartments have no air conditioners.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No air conditioners. But we're going to smoke all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And they take some damn naps.

[David Sims]

They do. They.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

They do.

[Griffin Newman]

Taking siestas.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Napping. Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

You kid me

[Ben Hall Hosley]

out there.

[David Sims]

Sorry. I know we were making jokes, but I did look up the actual opening prologue line, please. It is a time of apparent magic.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, that's cool. There we go.

[Griffin Newman]

Love that.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

This is a thing I like about the realization of the Cyclops. Tied to that is it feels like you're witnessing something that could they make him a scare? That clearly becomes magical.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But other than that, you're like, am I just looking at a person with facial differences? Am I looking at something that could have been misinterpreted? And through the oral tradition of the story being told and retold and reprocessed got more and more extreme.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. They don't. You know, in the story, he talks to the Cyclops more because the whole thing is that he tricks him into thinking his name is nobody.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He also gets him drunk. Drunk. And that's how he ends up falling asleep.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And you know, that's when the cyclops is asked like, who did this to. He's like, nobody did this to me. You know, like it's the trick, you know, it's a classic Odysseus, the, the cunning guy, right. And Nolan has said like, I just couldn't figure out how to make that work. Like it's just a different movie. I guess if it's just like he's talking, you know, like he wanted it, I guess to feel more primal, which it does. He does talk, he makes noise and he says Poseidon.

[David Sims]

And it made me so sad.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very, it's quite effective.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

This is the other. It's that it makes the character more sad because you're sort of like, is he almost being bullied by these guys?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

They treat him like he's not, you know, intelligent at first. They're dealing with him like he's a wild animal. And then the realization that he has the ability of speech, which implies obviously like deeper internal thoughts has come after they've already fucked with him a bunch.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He also crunched the bunch of them.

[Griffin Newman]

He did.

[David Sims]

That's true. He do be crunching.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

There's some self defense of crunching.

[David Sims]

I liked that, the aesthetics.

[Griffin Newman]

They went in his cave and ate his cheese. But I guess Zeus's law says you should offer your cave cheese to anyone who chose.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

They made a nice fire for him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's true.

[David Sims]

I thought the aesthetics of the cyclops design really reminded me of 90s. Like I could have seen him in like the Madonna bedtime stories music video.

[Griffin Newman]

That's, that's a Marie thought right there. I like that. I like that his eye is sideways.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's kind of vaginal a little bit. And that's another Marie thought right there.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

A little bit.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Well, anyway, he burns his friggin eye.

[Griffin Newman]

He does.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He does. He lights the sword on fire and he. They what? They poke him to wake him up and then stab him in the eye.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And they, and then they, you know, they have the hay and they pretend to be sheep. Pretending to be the sheep. Which is, you know, that is in

[David Sims]

the Arthur version of, of the Odyssey. Because they don't wanna really show violence. The cyclops is embodied by Buster the rabbit. And DW just ties his ears around his eyes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

His eye is the Odyssey episode of Arthur from the Steven Crowder era. Or was he not voicing Brain at that time?

[David Sims]

I have to admit that I am not super familiar with the cast and crew behind the show. Arthur okay.

[Griffin Newman]

He only voiced the brain for two seasons, Griffin, out of 25. So it's hard to, you know, narrow it down here.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think he did do Jekyll. Jekyll, Hyde. Jekyll, Hyde, Hyde, Jekyll, Jekyll. Though, if I'm not mistaken. Someone will check that.

[Griffin Newman]

I was a little lost here, but that's.

[David Sims]

I'm assuming that's an Arthur episode.

[Griffin Newman]

There's so many.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, it's a musical number.

[Griffin Newman]

Memes about children's entertainment, and it's hard to keep up.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

So they escape.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, they do escape.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

But Odysseus.

[Griffin Newman]

Odysseus does fire a little parting shot.

[David Sims]

Shouldn't have done that.

[Griffin Newman]

Should have done that in the story, in the poem, it's. He just says his name triumphantly and that's what gets them in trouble. But it's the same basic idea of, like, now they've invoked the gods. Now, I think that Nolan. Keeping the gods at a distance is good because it keep. It keeps the men's sort of opinions, like, kind of up in the air too, you know, where they're like, no, no, the gods have cursed us.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

And I. But I like the idea that it's like. Or maybe you curse yourselves just by, you know, the way you've behaved over the years, like, without it not having magic.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Odysseus has hubris kind of throughout the story.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, let's call out another thing here. One of our. I think it's maybe our true introduction to Odysseus in the movie, but in that first 30 minutes where we're getting so much information in different times thrown at us. We're watching Tom Holland train with Mentor, who, of course, is Ryan Hurst, our friend from the Lady Killer who played Lump. He's got a real.

[Griffin Newman]

He looks like he just walked off like the set of Sons of Anarchy or Vikings or whatever. He's looking great.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

David, would you be surprised to hear that in fact he was on Sons of Anarchy?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And of course, next is playing Kratos in the God of War series that everyone think looks perfect.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, everyone's grumpy about that one. Which is the first time that video game fans have had some objection to an adaptation of their material.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

What I was going to say is we're. We're in interested. Tom Holland is training with Mentor, and they're sort of explaining the way that his father used to fight and his rules and everything. And then there's like a flashback within a flashback, and Odysseus is explaining his whole method of stringing his bow, which is sort of his, like, Mjolnir test of no one can take the throne unless they can string his bow. A thing that only he can do, but also that he loves to pluck the bow, to sort of play the musical notes before because he thinks it's the honorable thing to do, to alert whatever he is about to shoot at, that he's engaging them in battle, whether they're not opponents, that hunting is the same. Yes.

[David Sims]

You know what he doesn't. The Trojan horse is the complete denial of the warning.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But even here with the Cyclops, you know, he tricks him and then he turns around and yells, like, another one. And just like Spike, he does briefly

[Griffin Newman]

slip into K mode, and he regrets it the rest of his life.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And he brings out like 20 guest acts.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right.

[David Sims]

While we're.

[Griffin Newman]

Patel, that guy you've seen in a lot of movies playing heavies. What's his name?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Can we shout out Hamesh Patel for a second? Who we were introduced to?

[David Sims]

Hamesh Patel.

[Griffin Newman]

Andrew Howard, who I'm mentioning there. Okay. Yeah. And Will Yun Lee. But yeah. No, Himesh Patel, who's in Tenet.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And is wonderful in Tenet, plays kind

[Ben Hall Hosley]

of an Adam Goldberg gum chewing, annoyed asshole in that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he's. He's in the one set piece, basically. I guess he's in two.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He's.

[Griffin Newman]

But, you know, he's like a helper guy.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You want me to do what? Like, he's that kind of guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Crash a plane into a Freeport.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And then yesterday, he's obviously, like, doing a Hugh Grant thing, I think, incredibly well. And then in this, he's just playing, like, ultimate straight arrow right hand man who's increasingly questioning what is this mission we're on? Like, can I trust this bone?

[David Sims]

Yeah. I got a bone to pick with Wikipedia for the odyssey in parentheses, 2026 film, they list Himesh Patel as Odysseus, second in command and incompetent brother in law. Perhaps in the. Again, I have not read the poem.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, in the poem, he is. He is cowardly. He is a. He's a fool. He's sort of like the emblematic thing of, like, the men just not listening, not, like, heeding the signs.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And isn't he one of the characters in the original poem that he's, you know, gifted that bag that controls wind? And then, like, he and some of the other crew members think there's gold hidden in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, because they're.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That'll.

[Griffin Newman]

They're like petty, you know, silly men. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think in this he is hyper competent. I think he is Kratos. Hyper competent. In order to cast more doubt on Odysseus. Right. In order for Odysseus to doubt himself more.

[David Sims]

I also think him being such a earthy, reliable character makes the ultimate loss of him.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's the one you're really attached to among the men.

[David Sims]

Really? Really.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You need one of those guys to really be kind of delineated and fleshed out in that sort of way.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Walt. Sorry, just to rewind a bit when we're talking about the Matt Damon bow trick. Not the plucking of the bow, but the stringing of the bow.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I'm just gonna come out and say this. I've never really been a Matt Damon as hot girly.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure, Matt Damon's reliable. He's good. He's handsome.

[David Sims]

He's a cutie pie.

[Griffin Newman]

He's a cutie pie.

[David Sims]

But like, I've never been like, ooh.

[Griffin Newman]

Matt Damon takes the roles in things like Ford versus Ferrari or Air or whatever. It's like, well, he's the kind of doughy, you know, middle of the road guy. Like, he's not the sexier guy.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

A little America's dad. We were talking about this in our True Grit episode with Stavi. That, like, it's funny that Matt Damon had this big action star run with Jason Bourne. And it feels like he's firmly settled into his I am dad mode. And then we remembered, oh, right, his next movie is the Odyssey. Like, he's doing his one last seemingly. I'm gonna get fucking swole as hell.

[David Sims]

He got.

[Griffin Newman]

He's ripped.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but he's ripped in a really attractive, sinewy, realistic. Realistic way earthy. Where I was just like,

[Griffin Newman]

I think you should have put the bodysuit from Live Action Moana on him. I think that would have worked better, don't you think? Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

My problem with Odysseus in this movie is that he had nipples. And I wish we could just take those off and just have smooth, rubbery pecs. Have you seen it yet, David? Are you seeing it yet?

[Griffin Newman]

No, I won't be seeing it yet.

[David Sims]

None of us are seeing.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Unfortunately. Ben had to see it. Did see it.

[Griffin Newman]

Why?

[David Sims]

Because Critical darlings. Critical darling.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure, sure. Right. So you had to. You had to. To help out there. Yes, but no, no. My dog.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I should mention it sucks so hard.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It sucks on ice.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah. When I saw it, the theater smelled like vomit, which felt really rich. Theater.

[Griffin Newman]

Which theater was it?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, Alamo.

[Griffin Newman]

I've been Walking around vomiting in theaters recently just to kind of like, you know, mark my territory. No, my daughter has seen the trailer for it multiple times and is always just kind of like, that's grown up Moana. And I'm like, yeah. And she's like, you know, she's not like, I can't wait to see that.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And so I haven't even the box office.

[Griffin Newman]

We were opening weekend Minions and Monsters. We were right there, and she was like, fucking Bernie Mac at Def Comedy Jam for her, she was just, like, pointing at the screen and screaming at, like, everything. The Minions did good. I mean, as were many other children in the audience.

[David Sims]

Adults, like Marie Bar.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I was not.

[Griffin Newman]

I was just, like, very touched by that movie. I was just watching it kind of with, like, my hand to my chest going like, this is so sweet.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

They love the Klemped.

[Griffin Newman]

I love James.

[David Sims]

Is that his name? James is an artist.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I've quoted before Robert Downey Jr. Saying that his performance in Jodie Foster's Home for the Holidays is the most relaxed performance in the history of cinema because of how much heroine he was on. I think the Rock's performance in live action Moana would make him jealous.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I want to know what he's taking so I can use it to fall asleep at night.

[Griffin Newman]

Griffin, do you think. How about this theory, though? I'm going to throw this at you. Dwayne Johnson, as we all know, actually loves independent cinema. He made the Smashing Machine. You know, he's out here supporting artists.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He's saying he's making another movie with Benny Safdie, an adaptation of a Daniel Pinkwater book. We'll see if that happens.

[Griffin Newman]

It'd be cool if it did. I mean, I think the issue there might be no one will give them the money, but we'll see.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Possibly.

[Griffin Newman]

But he brought down the Snyderverse, Okay? He did it himself.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The hierarchy of power did change.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. He has now brought down possibly Disney live action remakes. Is he a man on the inside? He's actually doing God's work?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what I mean?

[David Sims]

I mean, I love this conspiracy.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I've been viewing him as the enemy for a while, and yet I loved his performance in Smashing Machine. You and I both like that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I do.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And he has been successfully killing the things I hate the most in modern American cinema.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he might be just, like, here to help. This is all I'm saying. Like, I just think now, is this perhaps, you know, challenged by things like, he's in Jumanji 3 this year, which Is hard to get excited about, but didn't.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Is.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'm trying to remember. Did bellatar direct Jumanji 3?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he dropped that and it killed him.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. It's his final film. It's his Eyes Wide Shot Shut.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And you know, I did get served up that interview recently. Did you see this Griff that was going around from the Black Adam time where the guy is like. So which joker would be in Black Adam? Like Jared Leto or Joaquin Phoenix or Barry Keegan? And he's like Barry Keegan. And they talk about it seriously for two minutes where he's like. What he's doing is. And I'm just like, are you. Oh my God. What are you guys talking about? It's the ultimate. Just like how everyone just went insane about multiverses and didn't know what they were talking about anymore. And he was acting like Black Adam could just like bring all the worlds together.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I. I know, I know we've already made this joke within this conversational circle, but I just need to underline it. There is nothing funnier in the world than a year long marketing campaign that was all framed around the hierarchy of power in the DC universe will change. And he conclusively did. Did do that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. It's a nut.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Not in the way he intended.

[Griffin Newman]

He didn't intend it. Maybe for some good anyway.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Moana's dog piss.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I believe you. I won't be seeing it ever. So, okay.

[David Sims]

We talked about Cyclops.

[Griffin Newman]

Cyclops. Okay. So then.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

So Poseidon fraking pissed.

[Griffin Newman]

Poseidon mad because they.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

With his son.

[David Sims]

So they get driven to another island, collapses to dad.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is where they meet the. The large men.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Ben.

[Griffin Newman]

That you were so sure. Big you approved of so much. And I do the. The nightmare of the. The kid who's like laughing and.

[David Sims]

Yeah, Y.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

That. That stinker.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He's got kind of wilder energy. Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

What's that? Oh sure. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah. Your arch nemesis. Right, right, right.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

10 year old that I feuding with.

[Griffin Newman]

And so they're driven.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The 10 year old who has your neighborhood number.

[Griffin Newman]

Nolan is so good at this like stark nightmare stuff.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But the. When they go to the other side of the island and they're just seeing the animals. You know, like the tiger and the L. You know, like the weird looking

[David Sims]

at that Cersei's at.

[Griffin Newman]

That's. It's the same island.

[David Sims]

Oh, it's the same island.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Same island. Yeah. And. And they write and they encounter Cersei and this is. I mean it was just like. I know. So I know that Cersei will turn them into pigs. Right. And I know that Christopher Nolan really tries not to use cgi, obviously. I mean, I'm sure he used it a little bit in this Griff. Cause he's, you know, he's making the guys big. There's the big whirlpool. Like, there's stuff.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

There's the creature when they have to make the bargain. The rock creature with the.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's the one thing that felt conclusively cgi, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Where it's like, what are you gonna do? I mean.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right. Some of this has to be. I know so much of it for him is he doesn't want these stages in the process that will degrade the film. That when you run these things through optical printing and then have to. Right. Or rather, unless you do optical printing, if you're running them through a computer and then you're sort of outputting it again onto film, you're losing fidelity. And so I know he tries to keep those things to an absolute minimum. But it is just sort of striking to just see guys who are big and not 80ft tall. Big, but just big enough.

[Griffin Newman]

Just a little too big.

[David Sims]

Big.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But the way they so simply have her just, like, stretching the faces to turn into pig. And just the grossness of the, like.

[David Sims]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

The entrail soup.

[David Sims]

So gross.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It starts forming this, like, waxy, kind of, like weird icicle coming out of their throats.

[David Sims]

I wanted to throw up, cuz.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Did it not remind you all of Spirited Away?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, Spirited Away is referencing that. I mean, sure.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That's. You know, that's. This is. This is the first time anyone told these tales.

[David Sims]

So the TV version of the Odyssey that we were talking about was being really bad. Do you know who plays Cersei in that? Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

Tell me.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Or tell Fran Sinclair from the TV show Dinosaurs.

[David Sims]

Close. Bernadette Peters.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, which helps. So cool.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

As soon as I found that out, I was like, oh, I could see her just, like, feed and slop to pick. Like, you know, just being like, all right, eat.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Eat my slop.

[David Sims]

Eat my slop. Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

She looks pretty hot. God, Bernadette Peters, a baby.

[David Sims]

We love her. We do love her. I. Yeah. Cersei sequence. Incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

But again, like, so, okay, so in the poem, Odysseus does fuck Circe and have a couple kids with her and lives there for, like, a year. They got all that out.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Good.

[Griffin Newman]

But I just love that, again, this sort of simplicity of how he solves this problem of, like, understanding that there's something like wounded and dark about her grabbing the bird, like, realizing it's important to her. And then the way Nolan solves that puzzle so simply of like, she's just like, I like her better as a bird. It's her sister.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And it's. But also that he breaks off from his crew. He does hunting.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, also because they don't like it.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yes. They're kind of doubting him and thinking that the gods have smited him and they, they have.

[Griffin Newman]

God's have smarter questions, you know, and. But. But he might be the first to defy the gods and successfully and maybe prove the gods wrong. What's that tweet? I'll look up the tweet, but yeah, he shoots a deer and it turns into a very, very handsome naked man.

[David Sims]

Yes, I saw some tight little tushy.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. This is. This is the famous tweet rip to everyone killed by the gods for their hubris. But I'm different and better. Maybe even better than gods. I'll send it along to you guys.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And that's from Senator Ted Cruz.

[David Sims]

While we're talking about Samantha Morton the Great, do we think that she is in the supporting actress Oscar conversation?

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. This is the everything Oscar conversation right now, maybe.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think this is such a kind of reemergence for her and it's such a scene stealing role. And even in the way that Nolan's been talking about her performance in the movie, he's been really spotlighting her in interviews, even though she's not part of the core press team that they're pushing out there. And he said there are two times

[Griffin Newman]

he compared her to Heath Ledgers. Oh, sorry, I'm stepping on your thing.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No, he said, there are two times in my filmmaking career where an actor has done something that when I called cut, the crew broke into applause.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And it was Heath Ledger, I think, during the pencil trick scene.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And. And this.

[Griffin Newman]

And when John David Washington said, I ordered my hot sauce an hour ago, that was the third thing.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Well, but to be fair, they applauded the hot sauce. That's actually what they were applauding.

[Griffin Newman]

And when Elizabeth Debicki opened a car door with her foot, even though she was on the other side of the car.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Remember that?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

When she height maxes. When she leg maxes.

[David Sims]

I gotta watch Tenet again.

[Griffin Newman]

You gotta watch Tenet every single day of your life.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, you should watch it. Yes.

[David Sims]

I don't have that much time. I don't know if you noticed, but there was applause in Our audience when her name came up in the credits.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that's nice. I did not notice that.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I was just. My crowd had one guy, like the. Not another teen movie guy who was trying so hard to get applause breaks happening throughout the movie. And the movie's a little too contemplative and moody.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. The only applause breaks for the moment where Corey gets the arrow to the throat upon saying, you're Odysseus. Which rocks.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Correct. That is the only time it successfully happened in my theater. This guy truly tried 10 times.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

There were 10 times where you would hear,

[Griffin Newman]

maybe he was trying to turn on a light and he had a cop. Do you think it could have been

[Ben Hall Hosley]

that he was clapping on?

[Griffin Newman]

Clap on.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I want to say about the Cersei, that much like the village that burns themself down preemptively, her whole rationale is, I know men. They were gonna do something. Right. That Odysseus is like, why did you do this to them? They didn't do anything to you. And she's like, I know where it's going. That there is a time of such incredible distrust happening that people have started defying the gods, that they've started defying each other, that they're defying the laws of behavior and that everyone is just on the defense all the the time.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Like, she can't trust anything anymore. As we have said already, you know, everyone's speaking of these invaders from the sea who don't follow Zeus's law. And yeah, I mean, could she have maybe asked five to 10 questions before she served them pig soup?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Maybe. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

She's gone a little mad up there on by herself.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

She's also just got question one on the back burner all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

They are like, oh, you have food. And she's like, yep, slop it up. Sloppies.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's so gross looking.

[David Sims]

It was so disgusting.

[Griffin Newman]

So she is the one who says, you're gonna have to go to hell, Hades, sorry. You know, and he's like, nobody ever does that. And she's like, I don't know what to tell you, man. You're gonna be the first. You're gonna pull it off. And so they go to the underworld. Pretty rad.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Oh, my God, it's so sick.

[David Sims]

The black Icelandic beach.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I need to go to Iceland.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It's beautiful. And it's a four hour flight.

[David Sims]

I know. I'm going to do it. I've been.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I want to do it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's been on my list.

[Griffin Newman]

They have Hot dogs.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh good.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That was the only thing holding me back. I'm glad you know they have hot dogs.

[Griffin Newman]

Pop over there for a nice landing. Hot dog.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay, perfect. That's great news.

[Griffin Newman]

And yes. And this is James Remar. First he inquires as to like did Samantha ever show up? And is just like that and just like. And Daemon's like, yeah, but it was weird. They clearly just kind of shot it separately and she just kind of like has a one sided phone call and it wasn't really satisfying for anyone.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He tells Odysseus to meet him at the top where the air is crisp. That's a girl next door reference.

[Griffin Newman]

Cannot.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Remar cooks in that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

He's always cooking. I mean the guy cooks. Apart from Mortal Kombat Annihilation where the stove was broken, I guess,

[Ben Hall Hosley]

but the gas was coming.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Marie did remind me on the subway ride home of the other next door. What's the Jennifer Lopez movie?

[David Sims]

The Boy Next Door.

[Griffin Newman]

The Boy Next Door, where someone either,

[David Sims]

either she gifts the boy next door or the boy next door gifts her. A first edition of the Odyssey.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, a first edition of the Odyssey. Yes. Iconic.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Could we do a Next Door Patreon series?

[Griffin Newman]

Like, well, okay. Are we doing movies with the title Next Door in them?

[David Sims]

Something Next Door.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of a lot of like up neighbor movies, you know what I mean?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Girl Next Door.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. He's. He's on the Next Door Next Door.

[David Sims]

Okay. We've also got Girl Next Door, Boy Next Door.

[Griffin Newman]

We've got a, a 2020. Oh no, that's a TV miniseries. I'm out on that.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Are there any other good ones?

[Griffin Newman]

The Girl next. There's two Girl Next.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The Spider, Spy Next Door.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Jackie Chan, the Spy Next Door.

[Griffin Newman]

Uh huh. I'm not seeing a lot of good stuff here. I think you would have to more do a neighbor series. Right?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Like Rear Window.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that, but you know, kind of thing. Right, yeah, exactly. Like what's the one where Samuel L.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Jackson's the cop who doesn't Futurus. You know, that's an insane Pacific Heights.

[David Sims]

Which is really fun.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Pacific Heights.

[Griffin Newman]

I Any movie where people are like kind of peeking through blinds, you know, and then like, like something happens that makes them go, ah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Wasn't there like a. A racist Dennis Quaid bad neighbor movie recently?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Where again it's like the Intruder.

[David Sims]

The Dennis Quaid plays the racist.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Because it's Michael Ely and Megan. Good move Next Door.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He's like, hi, I'm your neighbor in a transformative Performance. Dennis Quaid plays like a somewhat unhinged reactionary.

[David Sims]

Well, the Dennis. The Dennis Quaid thing is so funny. It was this thing in the substance too, where I'm like, you're in this movie playing a character that is like satirizing the kind of guy that you associate yourself with politically.

[Griffin Newman]

So like got some self awareness.

[David Sims]

Are you self aware?

[Griffin Newman]

Arlington Road. What if your neighbor was possibly a terrorist?

[David Sims]

Another fun one, that one.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You've never seen Arlington Road.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I got to see Arlington Road.

[Griffin Newman]

I do think Rear Window is the. The king and origin of it. Ben. Like I think you're like, that's Rear

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Window, I would say is the best one.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. Have you seen.

[David Sims]

Have you seen the Disturbia?

[Griffin Newman]

Disturbia, which is just Rear Window.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That Simpsons episode, Bard of Darkness. Is that what it is?

[Griffin Newman]

That's a great episode. Love that episode. That's the one where Milhouse tries to write Milhouse, but he wants to go to the pool. So he writes Millpool.

[David Sims]

Milhouse just smacking the table, laughing.

[Griffin Newman]

That's some funny shit.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

So good. Everything's coming up Milhouse. I think about once a day.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. Yes.

[David Sims]

The Simpsons did an odyssey.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

They did? Yes. Homer's Odyssey. Homer's season's that. It's one of those anthology episodes where it's three stories in one. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I sent this gif to one of our group texts the other day, David. I think it was blank, but of the lineup of the suitors who are coming from Marge in their version of the Odyssey, because I remember that being the best section is just like Disco Stu and Mo and everyone courting Marge.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I see. Yes. It was called Tales from the Public Domain.

[David Sims]

This is really funny.

[Griffin Newman]

The Odyssey is the first. And then they have a Lisa Simpson

[David Sims]

as Joan of Arc.

[Griffin Newman]

Lisa is Joan of Arc. And then a Hamlet episode called do the Bard Man.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Really funny. And I believe the final joke in that episode is he finishes telling the story of his Hamlet and he goes. And of course it was adapted into a movie called Ghostbusters. And then they play the Ghostbusters theme and Homer dances to the Ghostbusters theme for one straight minute over the end credits. Marie is laughing. Marie is laughing.

[David Sims]

Do you. The title of. Of the Odyssey section is Do Brother, where art thou?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Which is.

[Griffin Newman]

That's pretty good. That's pretty good. But still, it's like a season 14 episode. I'm skeptical that this was very fun.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

So funny that I have to keep bringing these back.

[Griffin Newman]

The friggin homework, Ben.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Also, you're doing great.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

People have been saying lately on the Reddit or whatever, like, wow, Ben's really like, he's become kind of the taskmaster. No, Ben is doing his job.

[David Sims]

Ben's doing his job.

[Griffin Newman]

That mood will persist on this. He is the producer of this show and he is keeping us somewhat on, on track.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Just trying to help.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Come up to Ben. Tears in their eyes and they say thank you for producing.

[Griffin Newman]

Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere of the crowd.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

But too often life gets busy or

[Griffin Newman]

the price holds you back. Priceline is here to help you make it happen. With millions of deals on flights, hotels and rental cars, you can go see the gang live.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Don't just dream about the trip.

[Griffin Newman]

Book it with Priceline, download the Priceline app or visit priceline.com Actual prices may vary. Limited time offer

[Marie Barty Salinas]

real value shows up in reliability.

[Griffin Newman]

You don't have to second guess. Like a set of Firestone all season tires.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

They're designed to deliver confidence inspiring wet

[Griffin Newman]

weather traction and a quieter ride.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No matter the road.

[Griffin Newman]

Season after season.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Firestone all season tires for durability you

[Griffin Newman]

can count on, just like people count on you. Firestone always dependable since 1900. So yes, the sequence on the beach speaking to the blind prophet.

[David Sims]

Beautifully, this is speaking to Elliot Page.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? So like Elliot Page kind of emerging as like the heart of the movie as the sort of avatar of the men Odysseus sacrificed for. What? Exactly.

[David Sims]

And the betrayal. Because basically what happened with Sinon is

[Griffin Newman]

that they, they convinced Sinon they actually did leave.

[David Sims]

Correct.

[Griffin Newman]

Like Sinon did not know about the Trojan horse. The Trojan horse.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

In order for the trick to work, Sinon needed to be tricked as well. So they believed it.

[Griffin Newman]

And Odysseus defends himself of like, look, I needed you to believe it. I needed it to be real.

[David Sims]

You.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, you died and I, I heard you die and I was sad about it, but it meant others didn't have to die. But you can tell he knows. Like, this is a bit of a. Because it's like, what? So for what? So that we could pillage a city?

[David Sims]

Like, you know, the whole reason of the Trojan War is like literally the dumbest thing.

[Griffin Newman]

It's in trade routes or whatever, you know. Come on, bring up Jar Jar B.

[David Sims]

It was the. It's some guy's wife.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, okay. The stated reason, obviously. Yes. Is that Paris of Troy stole Helen from Menelaus.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Her face too pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And brought her. But they say in this it's like agamemnon would like, even if we got Helen back. Like, Agamemnon wants to disrupt Troy's, like, control over the train.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Republicans. Do they blame it on some other things. Think.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait, the Republicans? I thought that was like, a standup party founded by Abraham Lincoln. That's never done anything wrong.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, you're right. I'm sorry. So we. They were actually the good ones all along.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

We see Agamemon. He has been murdered.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, this is right. So then we're right. We're moving over to Telemachus, who goes to see Menelaus, played by John Bernthal, brother of Agamemon. Right. Very good, Bernthal.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

When is he bad? Only when he hosts a podcast, I would say.

[Griffin Newman]

Sometimes Bernthal can.

[David Sims]

Did any of you guys see.

[Griffin Newman]

Hit the gas a little bit.

[David Sims]

Did any of you guys see Dog Day Afternoon? No, I did not.

[Griffin Newman]

I heard it was bad.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I. This is what I heard as well. I heard some very loud rumors that it was not good.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Someone told me that it opened and people were laughing, and they had not anticipated that. And so then they leaned into it.

[Griffin Newman]

That doesn't sound good to me.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But I. Bernthal's excellent in this.

[Griffin Newman]

He's excellent. And it's like Telemachus is seeing in Bernthal. Bernthal's like, yay, I won. Now I'm here. Shit's met. Helen doesn't like me. You know, her face is all scarred.

[David Sims]

Yeah. My hot wife isn't even hot anymore.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And she's only going to launch 500 ships now.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And Helen's like. And don't forget what happened to Agamemnon.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like, I don't want to talk about that. We're not even going to talk about that. But it's another thing that we had been seeded. It's seeded. Very early in the story where Odysseus tells Penelope, like, Agamemnon, like, sacrificed his daughter for favorable wins or whatever. And Penelope's like, what? And like, Odysseus is like, you know, the spoils. You know, it's war. What are you going to do? And, like, the minute Agamemnon comes home, a champion like his wife is still mad about that and murders him.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And both roles, of course, played by Lupita Young the Great. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

We also get at some point around here, the fuller sequence of the Trojan horse attack. We see that before they go to the underworld. Right. Because we've seen sort of like Sinon's sacrifice more in full. Oh, sure. We also see. I like that. This movie answers some of the practical questions I have had about the Trojan horse.

[David Sims]

It was stinky in there. They were just sitting, pissing and puking. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yep. I. I also love that they show that anytime the horse is, like, turned over, that all the guys inside have

[David Sims]

to, like, reconfigure their bodies.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

At one point, the Troy soldiers are stabbing the horse, and one guy gets stabbed, and they all, like, cover up his mouth.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. The guy's just drowning at the bottom of it.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You don't want to be at the bottom. You want to be near, like, the head.

[David Sims]

Head.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. Get me near the head of the horse, please.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Very jackass. Not that very jackass of them.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Very jackass. Great jackass.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I'm Odysseus and this is Jack. Then it's just like, the horse.

[David Sims]

Oh, man. And there'd be one point where, like, Preston Lacy would fall on top of Weeman inside the horse.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That would be really funny.

[David Sims]

Yeah. What I was going to say is that John Bernthal, another thing that was, like, very much out of context in the teaser for this movie of him just being like, hey, you want to hear about my brother? Like, just talking like John Bernthal or whatever. And that was another thing in the trailer, I was like, all right. You got Tom Holland whining about, like, my dad's coming home, and then John Bernthal just talking like John Bernthal. And I was like, but it's all.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's removing the distance from these things. And I was also talking to a friend who was saying that. That, like, you know, there are a million different translations of these things, and some of them are like, no, the wording is something more casual than father.

[David Sims]

It totally works for me in the context of the movie. The characterization of these characters, like, the way that these characters are portrayed makes absolute sense and ultimately makes the story really relatable for, you know, contemporary audiences. But not in a way that feels frustrating, forced. Yeah. But, you know, I was.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

They're not saying, hello, fellow kids.

[David Sims]

Right. I just. I just rewatched Amadeus last week, which, you know, perfect movie. But again, that, to me, is like the classic version of. We're going to apply sort of like, modern sensibilities. Sensibilities to it.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

To a, you know, historical story. But it just. It just works

[Griffin Newman]

to wrap the. Yes. The black sand beach, the scale, how

[David Sims]

they come out of the sand.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

When they all come out of the sand and start charging. Or it's like all the shades want is news of people who are alive. Right. This is where it's sort of seeded for Odysseus of like, you're going to need to pay tribute to the men you lost. Like, you know, you haven't been honoring their deaths enough. And then Telemachus, I feel like from Menelaus is getting the sort of, sort of the information of like you can't just walk back to your house and think everyone's going to be happy to see you. Odysseus will need to survey the landscape when he arrives, you know?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And you got, you know, you got the intrigue of like Pattinson and Corey and all these guys are like, maybe we should kill Telemachus. You know, whatever. That's all a little bit of kind of like that's screenplay chaff or you know, like.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But Pattinson's big seduction scene is pretty excellent.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yes.

[David Sims]

He does a good job of toeing the line between being actually really convincing but also winking at the audience.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He plays the character as a fairly good actor.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Which is hard to do to show that he's almost pulling it off. And then what happens next?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Well, so he gets the prophecy and he knows. Odysseus knows what's to come.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

But he does not tell his men, which is that they will come across a whirlpool as well as this. I don't even know how to describe the monster.

[David Sims]

It's like a spider, different arms.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It's a octopus,

[Griffin Newman]

you know, and it's a man eating monster of, you know, it's. Sometimes it's depicted as like a maiden with like dog heads coming out of her body, which is kind of a. Ben.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Notion.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Punch that turns into a bite.

[Griffin Newman]

He cools out. Um, but it's, you know, Odysseus keeps being told by people like Circe and the, the. The what? Teresius Tus, like your men are going to die. And Odysseus is like, no, you know, they don't. You're telling me how we can avoid that. And they're like, that's true and you will live. But they're not going to, it's not going to work. And like their ultimate fallibility is like they make it to this island where they're like, don't eat those juicy, juicy cows.

[David Sims]

Those cows look good. They belong to the sun God, Apollo.

[Griffin Newman]

So you can't eat the cow, but it's just like a marshmallow test of like. But the minute you're here, you can't leave. The winds die down and you're just Going to get hungrier, hungrier until you're like, well, maybe we have to eat the cows. And then, you know, y. They all get struck down in the, in the, in a store.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

They go in their little barbecue hole.

[Griffin Newman]

Griff, they do go in a secret barbecue hole.

[David Sims]

They smoke this cow.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, that is.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Is true.

[David Sims]

We also see the sirens.

[Griffin Newman]

We do, we do. And again, you know, Nolan connects this to like Odysseus's like longing for what is lost like versus just like he's so horny for these hot ass singers. Which is sort of the classic Sirens thing of him being like, let me add him. I want to get there, you know. Instead he's just wailing and crying like.

[David Sims]

Great performance moment from Damon there.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, incredible shit. When he says the thing of like it's like the tastiest itch and when you go to scratch it, you realize it's under the skin is so evocative.

[Griffin Newman]

It's good shit. I. It's really good. This is some good shit. I think he pulled off some good shit here, Nolan. I'm going to tell him that in a typed note.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Ben, I assume that you believe if you listen to the sirens everything would turn out okay and you'd marry all the time.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

They would just be like, you're so chill.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

You rock.

[Griffin Newman]

Now you can go, here's a bunch for your time. They give you money, of course.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Bunch of gold wallets.

[Griffin Newman]

And so. Yes. What? You know what else?

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Oh, I wanted to ask, what do you think of the boat stuff? Cuz they shot on a freaking real ass boat, man.

[Griffin Newman]

I think like the oldest available boat is what they used.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It's like a Viking boat piece for Mag. It's. The boat is called the Draken 115 foot boat from Norway.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I guess it's a. It's a modern built boat.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Because obviously you're not. I guess you're not allowed to take like items of antiquity out to the open ocean or what.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

They just go by some like London museum and they're like, can I have that?

[Griffin Newman]

But it's a. It's imitating obviously like an ancient Viking longship or whatever.

[David Sims]

And I would assume thrown up.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I mean I think a lot of people did. I read some story about Nolan being like, do you mind if I shoot you throwing up?

[David Sims]

Yeah, I read that too.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is cool. Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I mean rowing seems relaxing. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

It does not seem relaxing. I could get into the groove of it.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I'm telling you.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh sure. Just to kind of like, repetitive thing, you know, put on some ambient music in the. In the airpods.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Toss some Apex Twins music.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He just listens to the sirens.

[Griffin Newman]

That's true. Yeah, Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Good rowing music.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I would. I think I would have died at Troy. No, I would have died before we even got to Troy. Like, I wouldn't have made it that far.

[Griffin Newman]

I wouldn't have made it that far. Right, exactly. They would have eaten me, let's be honest.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

In this time, I would have died in the cradle.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, exactly. Die right away.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I would have died of, like, air allergy or some.

[David Sims]

Maybe. Maybe I would have been sacrificed because I am like a firstborn child, you know?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

They would have tried to sacrifice me and the gods would have rejected me.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, no, thank you.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

What are we supposed to do with that shit?

[David Sims]

Okay. Also, throughout this whole time, we keep flash. We keep, you know, cutting into Odysseus with Calypso. She keeps being like, remember more what happened to your men? What happened to your men? And finally he breaks down.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Finally, Calypso. Right. And he is mad at Calypso, but she's kind of like, look, man, you needed to. Again, like, I feel like traditionally, Calypso is just a trickster. Like, Calypso literally means, like, steel drum, right? Yeah. She who conceals, you know, like, that. She's like a liar. Right. You know, but like, she's just kind of like, if you wanted to go, you would have remembered. Like, you're only remembering now because you're finally ready.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

To sort of accept the emotional truth now. Like, would Penelope be thrilled to hear this? No, no, but. And so, yes, he goes home in

[David Sims]

disguise as a beggar.

[Griffin Newman]

God bless Nolan. Like, he is very true to the tale of the Odyssey, which is like, the last part of it is Odysseus disguised as a beggar, hanging out in his house, being like, you know.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, I loved all the beggar stuff. I also love that Legazamo gets to shine so much in this section, so much more light because he becomes the one. One ally he has.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, there's that nice old lady.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Who notices his leg scar.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Also the dog.

[David Sims]

The dog. What's the dog's name? Argos.

[Griffin Newman]

Argos.

[David Sims]

I'm so sad.

[Griffin Newman]

Poor boy.

[David Sims]

Apparently, it's very controversial that in this film he touches the dog.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It's controversial that he touches.

[Griffin Newman]

Controversial to me.

[David Sims]

I don't know. People are like, he's not supposed to touch the. The dog.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I did find it so funny in that interview that they were asking Nolan, like, are you Worried about this backlash at all. And he was like, one, I don't consider backlash from people who have not seen the film yet. Two, everyone forgets that I worked on Batman movies for a decade.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think people forget that. But he's right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No, but he was just like, I've been fucking nerds for a decade. I don't give a shit.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

So by the touching, the dog, Tom Holland recognizes, this is my dad.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. That is when Telemachus puts it together.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Together.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank God. Because Telemachus would seem really dumb otherwise. I think at a certain point where this guy's like, no, I'm not Odysseus, but I know him and he's coming this way soon.

[David Sims]

Okay, sorry. So the dog. The thing with the dog is the. The dog is what potentially gives him away, his identity. So the question is, does Odysseus kill the dog or does the dog die?

[Griffin Newman]

Dog dies.

[David Sims]

The dog does die in the movie. But some people are like, actually, it should have been Odysseus.

[Griffin Newman]

Name an important or learned person who has said that. You cannot cite Randos on Twitter. Is there a real person who has talked about this?

[David Sims]

Probably not.

[Griffin Newman]

No. It is a bunch of comments from. And I will say this confidently, fools.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

So Penelope has set up this test for all the suitors, which is the. The trick we see Odysseus do way earlier in the film, where they line up a bunch of axes. It's basically like this incredible, like, party

[Griffin Newman]

trick he would do. Yes. He would string his bow and then he would fire the arrow along the axes, and it would be really cool. And everyone would say, odysseus, you're the best. Never leave.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Rules.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And so now all these suitors are lining up. They can't even get this bow strong.

[Griffin Newman]

It's so good.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, they're fools.

[David Sims]

We gotta go back a bit.

[Griffin Newman]

No, we don't.

[David Sims]

Yes, we do, because we have the whole scene when he talks to Penelope through the screen. And that's.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure.

[David Sims]

Cause that's before this is around.

[Griffin Newman]

It's all. You know, this is all happening in this.

[David Sims]

It's before the trial, but that sequence when it's finally revealed what actually he witnessed at Troy. And that.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. That is the. Right. We've talked about it a little bit already, but.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the emotional thing. Nolan's getting it. This is what he can't get over.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And he's not revealing himself to her. No, he's using a fake again.

[Griffin Newman]

He's going kind of like, yeah, what if a guy who knew? Odysseus knew that he felt really shitty about the Sack of Troy because he had been kind of gnarly and bad.

[David Sims]

I had tears in my eyes.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, no, it's so good. The revelation of Zendaya, like that really just crushed me. That worked for me so well. Like the use of her in the Sack of Troy, you know, like the. And then him looking at Athena, quote unquote, you know.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Because Zendaya basically was just some peasant woman who gets struck down, but then kind of embodies Athena then throughout the rest of the film.

[Griffin Newman]

Like his guilt, his story.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And the sequence is exciting. Like, it's also genuinely thrilling to watch.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, I think with the. These stories get passed down, and by virtue of them being passed down, you lose some of maybe the more unsavory elements, like the fact that there is an adaptation of the Odyssey on the show, Arthur, that, you know. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that is, of course, the peak of.

[David Sims]

Of the telling of the story.

[Griffin Newman]

And Homer was happy about it, but there is.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The cruelty of tying Buster's ears together is something that Nolan daren't depict.

[David Sims]

But there is so much emphasis on the heroic moments and the moments of valor that. That, like, maybe some of the other aspects of what happened don't get passed down.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. But it's also a movie that's so explicitly about guilt that I think. It's not like it's whitewashing the character, you know?

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, no, no, no.

[David Sims]

I'm not saying it's whitewashing the character. I'm saying that, like, when there's that thing of, like. I'm tired of hearing these stories and about Odysseus or other people that are like, really, really great when it doesn't really mirror the feeling of the loss and the guilt and the tragedy. And finally we get to see that part of the story and it breaks you and it's like.

[Griffin Newman]

It's v. Good.

[David Sims]

It's really good.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, Iliad and the Odyssey, the poems are about triumphant victories over barbarians. He is putting this in a completely modern context. This is not that, you know, he is, like, borrowing from Homer. He's. But he's putting it in very well.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I think we should shout out that a big influence for him was a somewhat recent adaptation by Emily Wilson, which is a kind of. It's an important distinction. Just mentioned. It's the first time that this poem was ever translated by a woman.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Which I don't approve of, to be clear. Okay. I think. I think she should Be translating raw food into cooked food in the kitchen. Sorry, that's a joke. I actually, the lead of my review was. Which I think is very. For one, I couldn't think of a fucking lead, so I used this instead. But like Emily Wilson, you know, famously, the Odyssey usually kind of begins like, tell me of Odysseus. Like, the man of twists and turns. Right. Like, that's the sort of Greek translation of. And she renders it much more simply as, like, the complicated man. And like, I think that's what Nolan is responding to of like, this is not just a person who had twists and turns out that he navigated. Like, this is. You know, there is something introspective we can find in this man.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, there is.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The other thing, this movie reminded me of a lot. And I don't know if I just. I haven't been reading or watching a ton of interviews with Nolan, so I don't know if he's already called this out a bunch. Reminded me a lot of Excalibur in sort of the vibe of it being this kind of like, earthy dreaminess. Even just the way he uses fog is. And smoke throughout the movie and sort of finding this way to make a tactile version of magical ideas.

[Griffin Newman]

To me, he cited Last Temptation of Christ. And that to me is also what you're talking about a little bit. That moment where he stands up and he's got, like, bits of the beach on him on his back that felt very. What are some other things? I feel like he's been talking about some other movies.

[David Sims]

Andre Rublev.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. Hey, good looking guy.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right. That feels like, you know, anytime we're zooming out to a bunch of guys running on the beach, that felt very curious. Like Lake Kurosawa to me.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Girl next Door. I've seen him call that out a

[Griffin Newman]

couple times about it. The fact that she's next door and James Remar and also.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Is the juice worth the squeeze is kind of a common refrain in this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the Elisha Cuthbert movie.

[David Sims]

Yes, correct.

[Griffin Newman]

And Timothy Olyphant is there.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I would put him on the supporting actor ballot for that year.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the kind of like the Joey Pants who shows up late and he's

[David Sims]

like, all I rem is that Paul Dano and Emile Hersher in that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

They're in it, right?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes. He's like the Ray Liotta in Something Wild.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right. He's the spark plug at the third act. Right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He's really good yeah. Okay. He makes the five.

[Griffin Newman]

So. Yeah. So he does the trial. Reveal himself.

[David Sims]

None of those other men can string that fucking bow. He can string the bow.

[Griffin Newman]

Pattinson is like, I won't even play the game. Like, he's trying to take the kind. He's like, I won't fall for your trick. I know what you're trying to say here, but he ain't coming back. So you just got to pick one of us anyway. And that is, I feel like, around. When Odysseus do shoot Corey Hawkins in the throat and his last words are, you're Odysseus. It just. It just.

[David Sims]

It was really cool.

[Griffin Newman]

It just made me very happy.

[David Sims]

And it was really fun to see Matt Damon go apeshit.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Dude, that fight sequence, it does incredible.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Quiet.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

It does feel like quiet. The last time she's gonna go action star mode.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, probably. Except for maybe Odyssey 2 2. Odyssey 2 furious.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I just feel like Damon is not a guy who's like, desperately holding on to his ego of being a certain type of leading man. I feel like he is happy to

[Griffin Newman]

be made an action movie.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Exactly. Born the Last Born.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, actually, the rip, which I guess was this year.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, but that's a different kind of thing.

[Griffin Newman]

That's more of like a thriller, that movie. But it has some action in it.

[David Sims]

Gun action is different from action.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And I guess the instigators, which everyone remembers so well.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Jesus Christ. That took me a second to even pull what you were talking about.

[Griffin Newman]

That was kind of capery. Like, there's like, cars.

[David Sims]

He spends a lot of them. Like, his character is. They take his, like, therapist, played by Hong Chao, hostage with them.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So it's a lot of him talking about. Talking to his therapist while other people do stuff.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I do think gun heist stuff is different.

[David Sims]

Like that.

[Griffin Newman]

And then obviously even like the Last Duel or whatever.

[David Sims]

Like a movie that I love, a

[Griffin Newman]

great movie that does have, you know, action in it, but it's brutal and kind of, you know, and he's. I mean, he's playing a guy who has to go to court to argue he gave his wife an orgasm.

[David Sims]

What?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'm sure he will do action sequences again, but I'm saying I think this feels like his final big action hero movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Although I don't know anything about this Daniels movie.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

No one does.

[Griffin Newman]

That is his next project. What is that?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

The rumors I have heard do not make it sound like that's what it is. And in fact, I think a lot of why there was such a Musical chairs of which a list star was gonna play that role is that that role is a little secondary to the. That he's in a lot of the movie. But he doesn't get to like, have the big wins.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like that's something Daemon is happy to do.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. I think he's happy to surrender that and go like, I'll let the younger cast sort of drive the story and I'll just service the plot.

[David Sims]

Wait, I'm so sorry. I just clicked on the Reddit. Did you fucking see this?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. With the highway sign?

[David Sims]

Yes. Do you know this? A highway exit in Georgia. Georgia that just says Griffin Newman.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, but it's.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

It's

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Griffin.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

But from far away it literally just says Griffin Newman.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Why is this happening? Is that the name of the town or something?

[David Sims]

It's very. It's. It's really upsetting. I feel like I'm witnessing some sort of glitch.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a little back roomsy.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay. And you know the best thing about it? About that sign? You can eat it too.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Here, I will tell you the answer. It appears to be that there are two separate places. Griffin, Georgia and Noonan, Georgia. And I guess you can access them both from this exit.

[David Sims]

That is wild.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

All right, well, I should move to that intersection.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you need to move there.

[David Sims]

We gotta go there. Maybe when we drive eventually to Disney

[Ben Hall Hosley]

World live show and Griffin Noonan Live show.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me get in touch with the

[David Sims]

bookers down the Griffin Noonan sign. Okay. Sorry. That's the Odyssey.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. He kill everyone.

[David Sims]

He kill everyone. And you know, there, there's some. It's just like a fun sequence where you got Tom Holland and what's his. What's his name? The guy who, who used to. Logan Marshall Green.

[Griffin Newman]

We're Logan Marshall Green, like the guy.

[David Sims]

3 name guy who I mean, we used to look like.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I was going to say, when Tom Hardy and Cosmo have not worked together in a while, you can at least get Logan Marshall Green.

[David Sims]

I think that role was supposed to be Cosmo Jarvis. And Cosmo Jarvis probably had to go

[Griffin Newman]

film, go to Japan.

[David Sims]

Right. But the. You know, they're upstairs and there's a hole in the. The floor ceiling.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

The weapons showed up. So now.

[Griffin Newman]

But then he goes and he tries to put him through the hole. Right? So yeah, there's that moment where Patton just goes, spears.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Spears.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Like he's not even doing anything.

[David Sims]

That scene is so funny. He's so funny. Funny.

[Griffin Newman]

He's so good at playing this kind of like, desperation and this like, fishness, you know.

[David Sims]

I cannot wait to see him play Chris Hansen. I. I just think it's like, such genius casting and I'm really excited.

[Griffin Newman]

He's really cool. I want to see it.

[David Sims]

But yeah, and Od Odysseus. It's like him versus, like 60 guys. And when he finally is victorious at the end of the battle, he's just got spears poking out of his body.

[Griffin Newman]

He does get a couple. Yeah, well, a couple.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

He doesn't make it through scot free. He takes some lcd.

[Griffin Newman]

Nolan has a little bit of fun making you think, like, maybe he's gonna die. Yeah, right.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

But he's not a superhero.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

No, no.

[Griffin Newman]

We're gonna do Dark Knight Rises. It's like what we talked about. We're gonna fucking retire. We'll go off.

[David Sims]

He and Anne Hathaway are going to go off into the sunset together.

[Griffin Newman]

Telemachus as king. He's. He's done great. And then when he gets on the boat is when he might finally reveal. Like, by the way, I did spend eight years on the island with Charlize Theron. Anyway, let's go.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And we might have hooked up a little bit.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Just over the clothes stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, no, totally. She always had her fishnet thing, hat on, like, and. And it was. It was the lotus look. What can I tell you? It was all lotus.

[David Sims]

I feel like back in ancient Greek times, there was like an understanding that, like, sex is different.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I think over the jeans doesn't really count.

[Griffin Newman]

And they. They had so many jeans then. It was such a denim y society.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

This is such a dungaree movie. It is funny. It's the last thing I expected for it to be so heavy on the Levi's product placement.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Although the costuming is awesome.

[Griffin Newman]

It is.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And I love. It's not like corny, like sandal and sword, like over the top.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's. It's very, like, simple and kind of rough, humid.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Like, Damon literally wears like a cutoff T shirt at one point, but it's just like, you don't need the over the top robes.

[David Sims]

And you know what movie's costuming is? Dog Ass Troy. Dog Ass Troy nominated for an Oscar. They.

[Griffin Newman]

They made all of the costumes out of dog's asses. That was the issue.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

That's why it was impressive.

[David Sims]

They got Brad Pitt wearing crop tops, like, cerulean blue crop tops.

[Griffin Newman]

It was Devil Wears Prada era.

[David Sims]

Where does this come from in history?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Like, it's actually before they Beat them to the cerulean pun.

[Griffin Newman]

I was researching.

[David Sims]

I was researching ancient Greece. Crop tops. I could find nothing.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh yeah, you couldn't find anything when you Google them.

[David Sims]

I could find nothing.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Although it is funny how in Bushwick right now, Caesar haircuts and crop tops on men are so popular.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Hot Odyssey summer.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, there you go.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I remember Troy being a very navel forward movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of boat. Not a boat.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

No, I meant like belly buttons.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yes, you're right. You're right. It does have. It's both navel with an A and navel with an e. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I'm not sure if you see Eric Bana's cute little innie or Audi.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'm not sure what I wish. I'd love to tickle that.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm a little worried about googling Eric Bana belly button. I don't know what that'll do to my audience. Algorithm looks like an innie. A classic innie.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay. A classic Annie.

[Griffin Newman]

That was just one of those movies where everyone I think was just like, I need biggest arms on this.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, like everyone's just like hitting the gym constantly.

[David Sims]

No, they're not that bulky. All right, they're not that bulky like you see. What's it, Orlando Bloom? Well, he was naked a lot and it is. It is peak.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Look at this very male model.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Bana looks good.

[Griffin Newman]

Bana looks good.

[David Sims]

Bana looks good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the heftiest.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Bana looks good. Um, final thoughts on Christopher Nolan's theodicy.

[Griffin Newman]

Very good.

[David Sims]

Really funny. I can't wait to see it again.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Same. I. I just. I'm like, there's so much more to just unpack and notice.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it'll be a very rewarding second view.

[David Sims]

I. You know, I think it kind of had a little bit of everything.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

You know, little bit of this, a little bit of that. Really? Fire panels, cylinders. I thought it was well paced. I was never bored.

[Griffin Newman]

No, same with Oppenheimer. Just kind of moves like crazy.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

250.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

David, your wife wants the bucket.

[Griffin Newman]

She does. How do I get that bucket? God, the horse.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'm keeping my eyes on the orders. If it goes back in stock anywhere, I'll send it to you.

[David Sims]

I am so. I am really looking forward to your wife's review.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm really excited for her to see it cuz she's been somewhat skeptical. She. She's not like a Die Hard Nolan fan anyway. But we're going to go see it.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah. And her review Will be on a Patreon tier that doesn't exist and will never.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

We haven't come up with a tier that high.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe the bucket is huge.

[David Sims]

The bucket's really big.

[Griffin Newman]

Really big.

[David Sims]

It's really big.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And then there's also the IMAX camera bucket.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Which is cool. So I think that one. One of them is Regal and one of them is amc. I can't remember which is which.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Can we say quickly? They had to. I mean, Nolan basically threw the challenge down to imax. They've been refining the technology to help him make these movies, not just in terms of the filming, but even in terms of the projection. Because there was a time limit on how long an IMAX movie could be.

[Griffin Newman]

There's sort of a three hour cap, right? Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right. But he helped them work up to three. I think it used to be two something. But they finally made the smallest version of an IMAX camera possible for this movie. And they also developed what they called the blimp, which is a case that goes around the camera that suffocates the sound.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Because everyone says it's so goddamn loud

[Ben Hall Hosley]

you can't hear yourself thing the dialogue scenes. That's why usually he only shoots the more visual scenes in imax and the dialogue scenes aren't. And this because he was going to do the whole thing. They had to blimp it up.

[Griffin Newman]

It was all. It was all imax.

[David Sims]

I'm.

[Griffin Newman]

That aspect ratio never changed.

[David Sims]

I'm very curious because I am seeing it in 35 millimeter. Like it really did feel like he was using the entire IMAX frame.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'm curious. I mean, there have been the infographics that have been going around at the different formats and some people complaining that if you don't see it in a perfect square, is the framing all going to look weird?

[Griffin Newman]

No. To me, that only looks bad if you're watching them next to each other.

[David Sims]

It only looks bad if you know what you're missing. But if you don't know what you're. What you're missing, you don't know what you're missing.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sure it works.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, I'm sure. I'm sure it'll look great.

[Griffin Newman]

It would be funny if it's like you don't see Damon's eyes. Like it's horrible. Like they did no work. Thinking about it. It's just like Jaws talking to each other. No, it's very good.

[David Sims]

I think it's going to make a ton of money.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it'll do very well.

[David Sims]

My father in law has texted me, you know, being like, you heard of this? And I'm like, oh, I've seen. I've seen it, Manny. I've seen the movie and it is phenomenal. You should, you should go.

[Griffin Newman]

And now, Griff, do you have box office predictions? I mean, we assume moana will jump 100%, so it'll be number one and then Odyssey number two.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

80. No, I think people are assuming that this is going to open over 100.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right. I mean, Oppenheimer opened to 80 against Barbie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Because we should mention we're recording this Thursday, the day before.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Recording this. Yes. The night it's coming out, basically. But I think it's probably going to open to like 100, 110. The thing with these format forward movies is the opening weekend cannot be totally humongous because a lot of people wait until they can get the ticket they want.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, people.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

So you have a lot of people who are going to wait two or three weeks, which means this thing's going to hold incredibly well. But I think it's probably going to open to like 100 or 110 would be my guess. 200 worldwide, I think, end up at like. Yeah, yeah. I'm guessing it ends up around 350 domestic.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I bet this plays well in Greece.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

A billion worldwide.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it'll play well in Greece. Yeah, I think that's true.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

We should demerit, you know, offer some demerits for this film. Neither. No Stavi. No Zookee.

[Griffin Newman]

No Manzuka.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Right. No Stamos. The big three.

[Griffin Newman]

No Stamos.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Who does Stamos? Could have. He could have been one of the suitors.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he could have been there. And, you know, who are the other guys from Full House? Oh, well, Bob Saget isn't with us anymore. Who's that there?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Joey Coulier. Health problems.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

He could have had a puppet.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Lori Lachlan, convicted felon.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Geez. Wait, what's going on with Full House?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Actually, it's bad. It's bad over there.

[Griffin Newman]

House too full. I mean, and Penelope does have a full house. It's a good. Right, That's a point.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

David, that house has too many people in it.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Sometimes you remind us that you're the film critic, that you're the one real professional in this field that is writing.

[Griffin Newman]

Penelope does have. As I'm being like, taken out of my office by security with. You have been fired. I'm like, no, no, no. Let me, let me.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

My friend I think you finally found your lead.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it'll be Odyssey, Moana, Minions. I don't know what else is out there. Evil.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I would not be surprised if there is a Moana drop that is so significant that Minions or Toy Story are actually ahead of second week in Moana. Yeah. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

The invite has been growing quite nicely. I think that might. That might continue to do well yet.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Christian, I know it is not playing in Spain. I think it maybe doesn't come out for another month or two. I'm trying to see it while I'm here in London. So I may go see it after this record, or I may go see it tomorrow.

[David Sims]

I really. I really enjoyed it.

[Griffin Newman]

You should just watch the People Upstairs, the Spanish film that it's based on in Spain.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

This is true. But, I mean, the Great Hub. I don't know which one I should watch first.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think it matters. I think you're fine. Well, well, well, well, well, well. Yeah, let's wrap it up. I mean, you know, you can't be cooking in there forever in that London.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

This is one of the most relevant films of 2026. It's one of the biggest films of 2026. It will certainly go down in history as one of the films that represents the this year, which, of course means that next week we're talking about in the Blink of an Eye.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Yes, yes, yes, that's true. That is true. But, hey, my brother, on that episode, I remember us having a lot of fun.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Your brother, Joey Sims is cooking.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we have a good time on that app. Maybe not talking about Blink of an Eye that much.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

A 2026 Hulu release that you might be hearing about for the first time right now.

[David Sims]

I'm excited to watch it.

[Griffin Newman]

Are you?

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Maria, I like one of the three sections in that movie a lot. And I'm curious.

[David Sims]

Don't tell me which one.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I'm not gonna tell you. But I'm curious when you watch it, if you have the same response. I think you will.

[Griffin Newman]

And, yeah, so we've got two more Stanton films, right. To fill out that little mini. So we got in the Blink of an Eye. And Toy Story 5, two films he directed in 2026.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

And then over on let's also. No, I was just gonna call out. You say the patron, David.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. On Patreon, we've got the final RoboCop entry, which is RoboCop 2014. Five stars from what I remember.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Illegal.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

It should be.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, Right. No. Suicide is contemplated on that episode. Or anything. I'm kidding, kidding.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I was just going to call out.

[Griffin Newman]

We.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

We have announced our John Carter screening which sold out. That's really fast. In which Andrew Stanton is going to be doing a Q and A with

[Griffin Newman]

what a fool he is.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

We are not sure if we will be able to record and. Or release that, but we are going to be doing a sit down with him in studio. So that will be coming later and we will figure out the deal with the Q and A. But for a number of factors that we can talk about later. We're not totally sure what form that will have down the line, but look

[Marie Barty Salinas]

forward to a release on the main fetus. Just a bonus episode.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yes, it'll be a kind of old school Thursday bonus, I think is the plan.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

And on that note. Griffin. Oh, sorry. Please wait.

[David Sims]

No, there was one thing. Griffin, before we started recording, you said you had a big joke you wanted to make. Did you make that joke?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Oh, joke about how funny is it that I left New York and everyone has diarrhea now? I made the joke.

[Griffin Newman]

Very good.

[David Sims]

Oh, that was the joke. Okay.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Thank God we got that in there because you did put a pin in that. And so often we put pins and things that never get unpinned.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

I want to start a new segment called the Corkboard in which anytime we. We say we're going to put a pin in something, Ben, you write it down and at the end we check the cork board. What do you think about. That's a good idea.

[David Sims]

I also see that working as a fun. Like social media.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

I'll write down cork board for the Corkboard idea.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, cork board for the cork board. So we're announcing the Corkboard. Unfortunately, the next two months of episodes have largely been recorded. Get ready for a bunch of episodes that don't have the Corkboard in no.

[Griffin Newman]

And probably have a lot of unfinished tangents. Let's be honest, there are a bunch of Martin Scorsese episodes.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Well, tell us what to ask. Add anything we miss in the upcoming

[Ben Hall Hosley]

episodes, throw it on the corkboard and be polite. And for all the Arthur talk in this episode, I must say, and as always, Jekyll, Jekyll, Hyde, Jekyll, Hyde, hide Jekyll, Jekyll, Jekyll, Jekyll, hide, Jekyll. Three people will be so happy.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna get a seltzer with. One sec.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, David, can you get me a seltzer too?

[David Sims]

David, can you grab Griffin a seltzer? He almost did. He did a double take.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Okay, good.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Now can you. Can I do a little port towards the camera?

[Ben Hall Hosley]

Yeah, if you pour it into the sound for it it will come through my headphones.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

Link Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hall Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee. Research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Production.

[Ben Hall Hosley]

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[Griffin Newman]

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[Ben Hall Hosley]

Fortunately, though, Mint's story is better.

[Marie Barty Salinas]

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[Ben Hall Hosley]

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[Griffin Newman]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[David Sims]

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