Green Card with Esther Zuckerman

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: Green Card (1990) with Esther Zuckerman
Release Date: May 3, 2026
Guest: Esther Zuckerman

Episode Overview

This episode continues Blank Check’s Peter Weir miniseries with an in-depth, funny, and frank breakdown of his 1990 romantic comedy "Green Card" starring Gérard Depardieu and Andie MacDowell. Joined by film critic and rom-com expert Esther Zuckerman, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims dissect the oddball alchemy of Weir’s only rom-com, the peculiar stardom of Gérard Depardieu, Andie MacDowell’s fascinating career trajectory, and the rom-com form itself. The hosts weigh the film’s charm, legacy, and odd record in movie history—addressing Depardieu’s allure and his later controversies. Expect hefty doses of film history, personal anecdotes, sharp critique, and Blank Check’s signature digressions.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Premise & Tagline of "Green Card"

(00:29–00:50, 34:03–34:39)

• The hosts highlight the movie’s high-concept tagline:

  “The story of two people who got married, met, and then fell in love.”
  (Griffin Newman, 34:34)

• This encapsulates the film’s pitch—a marriage of convenience for an immigration green card, flipping the expected romantic arc.

• Both Griffin and David praise the tagline as a studio executive’s dream; it tells you exactly what you’re getting and feels immediately accessible and marketable.

2. The Strange Hollywood Experiment: Gérard Depardieu as a U.S. Movie Star

(01:10–14:02, 32:55–33:09, 35:08–36:29)

• The hosts trace Depardieu’s decade-spanning French stardom and Hollywood’s attempt to make him lovable to American audiences via “Green Card.”
• They note that while French culture found Depardieu charming, his “dangerous” and “burly” persona never fully translated in the U.S.
• Esther:

  “Depardieu’s star persona was inherently a little lascivious … there is always that, like, sexual charge to him…”
  (63:18)

• They compare him to French stars who cross over (Binoche, Cassel, Bardot, Marion Cotillard) and note the unique hurdles for French men in American cinema: typecast as weasels or villains.
• Modern context: They later address Depardieu’s later legal controversies, which add a new, uncomfortable lens to watching his older work (36:29–42:46).
• Quote (Esther, on French industry response):

  “It was just like … everyone’s blowing cigarette smoke in my face. The most … But I think there’s been years and years and years of this happening and being like, whoa. But he’s Gerard. This is what Gerard does. He is … this is fine.”
  (38:43)

3. Andie MacDowell’s Odd Yet Enduring Career

(20:17–29:07)

• The hosts dig into Andie MacDowell’s pre- and post-"Green Card" career—her rough start, breakout with "sex, lies and videotape," highs in "Groundhog Day" and "Short Cuts," and the subsequent struggles with roles (“Four Weddings”).
• David:

  “…She’s never stopped working … she’s gone totally natural. Like, she has gray hair … she has aged incredibly.”
  (26:38)

• They track her evolution from ingenue to character actress and recurring debates about her acting versus “vibe.”
• Esther and Griffin praise her grounded, earthy presence and stellar hair, noting her recent work and positive aging gracefully in Hollywood.

4. Peter Weir’s ‘Blank Check’ and Directorial Approach

(14:45–16:48, 46:43–50:07)

• “Green Card” seen as Weir’s first true American “blank check” project; after proving himself on "Witness" and "Dead Poet’s Society," this lighter, contained rom-com was the film he truly wanted to make.
• Weir pitched the film as a return to “Frank Capra”-type romantic comedy, calling it “a light snack.”
  (47:40)
• The film’s gentle tone stands in contrast to his broader, heavier previous Hollywood assignments.
• Discussion of his collaboration with Depardieu, deliberate avoidance of big-name American stars (Harrison Ford), and desire for directorial control.

5. The Rom-Com "Lie": Subverting Genre Conventions

(50:49–55:51, 103:11–106:00)

• Griffin and Esther praise "Green Card" for sidestepping the usual rom-com lie (one party deceives the other); instead, both leads are complicit in the fake marriage to get what they want, creating a pressure-cooker effect rather than cheap dramatic conflict.
• Griffin:

  “I am often frustrated by the rom com that is predicated on a lie … This movie is—they’re in the same lie. They meet each other for different reasons, forming a lie. But they’re a hundred percent on the same page within that. Which is so much better as a kind of like pressure cooker for tensions to develop.”
  (51:04)

• The hosts reflect on how rare this approach is, comparing it to classics like "The Lady Eve" (53:58), and noting it lets the movie avoid a lot of fake-out drama.
• Esther:

  “The best rom coms are—there is a circumstantial reason these two people need to be together....”
  (55:27)

6. The Specter of Gérard Depardieu

(36:29–44:44, 104:54–115:34)

• The panel address at length their discomfort and conflicted feelings watching Depardieu post-scandal, yet they also discuss how the character is written with a sense of unpredictable danger—sometimes a rom-com asset, but possibly unsettling here.
• Griffin:

  “This is the innate dangerous energy Depardieu has. And I think Weir was really smart to make a movie that leads with that.”
  (64:48)

• Esther on the film’s odd energy:

  “There is something that feels odd about him and off about him in a way that, that feels either potentially dangerous or potentially … the way this character is written. This is my problem is that there is still something in the writing of the character that leaves me at arm’s length.”
  (117:33)

7. New York, Place, and the Irresistible Apartment

(87:45–92:11, 89:56–92:11)

• They delight in the film’s authentic NYC flavor, rare in modern rom-coms, and the ever-relatable motivation:

  “Women will literally do anything to get the right apartment.”
  (89:59, Esther)

• Discussion of the iconic greenhouse apartment, the specificity of setting, and why sense of place is crucial to a satisfying rom-com.
• Griffin:

  “Rom coms benefit so much from a place of specificity… This movie gets so right that his terrible person aged better with every successive year. The opposite of Gerard Depardieu, who ages worse every year, is you’re just like, yeah, yeah. So now you could justify almost anything in the reality of the movie. If there’s an apartment this good on the market.”
  (90:19)

8. Supporting Cast Love: BB Newirth & More

(97:56–101:29)

• Collective enthusiasm for BB Newirth’s performance as a wild, scene-stealing friend, subverting “hot brassy villain” tropes:

  “There’s a really positive function of her character … she’s this guy’s interesting … it forces Andie McDowell to reconsider. Wait, you’re interested in him?”
  (102:16)

• Shoutouts to Anne Dowd, Robert Prosky, John Spencer, and the stacked supporting cast.

9. The Peculiarity of the Film’s Tone & Ending

(35:08–36:17, 82:06–83:57)

• Praise for its “gentle,” subtle approach and the now-rare, bittersweet ending:
• Esther:

  “I loved the ending. The ending is kind of, like, so good. This whole thing made sense…It’s the perfect sort of, like, bittersweet ending that I think some of my favorite rom coms do…”
  (83:21)

• The hosts agree it’s unusually understated and mature for this type of film.

10. The Rom-Com Industrial Complex: History, Decline, and Streaming Era

(126:10–139:41)

• The hosts, referencing Dobbins’s “vacation-core” thesis, bemoan the slide of rom-coms from high-production, specific, star-powered movies like "Green Card" to lifeless, low-budget streaming content that lacks real locations or character.
• Esther:

  “For the fantasy to work, at least for me, the fantasy has to be rooted in the reality of a place and has to be rooted in…the tangibility of that place…”
  (131:07)

• Discussion of the death of “high thread-count” rom-coms, shorthanding the genre as “chick flicks,” and its dismissal by the industry.
• Quote:

  “Rom coms got equated with chick flicks, and that is the big [problem]. And that’s from a 90s thing … and that is the problem…It’s all been denigrated. And I mean, I think it’s all comes from a sexist place, which is that, like, at a certain point they started—they stopped realizing that everyone likes these movies, and they thought that only women like these movies.”
  (139:14)

11. Release, Reception, and Awards

(143:23–146:48)

• “Green Card” was a moderate box office success ($30 million domestic on a $12.5 million budget), critically acclaimed at launch, winning the Golden Globe (Best Musical or Comedy) but has become “weirdly memory-holed.”
• It also received an Oscar nomination for Best Original Screenplay.
• The panel marvel at its victory over films like "Pretty Woman" and “Home Alone” for the Golden Globe.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Depardieu’s Odd Appeal:

  “[Depardieu] has the most face of any person ever.”
  (58:32, Griffin Newman)

• On the Magic of Specificity:

  “Women will literally do anything to get the right apartment.”
  (89:59, Esther Zuckerman)

• On the Unified Lie:

  “The unified lie is an underused power move.”
  (55:22, Griffin Newman)

• On B.B. Newirth’s Scene-Stealing:

  “She’s so cool and yet she appears anything. And you’re like, this is the funniest, smartest, coolest and hottest person who has ever…”
  (101:15, Griffin Newman)

• On New York in Rom-Coms:

  “Rom coms benefit so much from, like, a place of specificity, from the feeling of, like, neighborhood haunts and … the rhythm of whatever the city or the town is ...”
  (89:55, Griffin Newman)

• On the Difference Between Eating Cake and Realizing It’s Vegan:

  “Do you know what this movie feels like to me? It’s like eating a birthday cake and then being told after the fact, this cake is entirely vegan … and the more I study how you were able to make this without doing the usual things, the more I have to applaud you.”
  (102:50, Griffin Newman)

• On Touchstone’s Marketing Formula:

  “Touchstone Pictures presents France’s most acclaimed actor, Gerard Depardieu, and America’s newest film sensation, Andie MacDowell, in the story of two people…”
  (32:55, Griffin Newman)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:29] — The legendary tagline and movie’s premise
• [01:10–14:02] — Depardieu’s transatlantic stardom: French hits, U.S. crossover, career context
• [14:45] — Peter Weir’s “blank check” setup and directorial intent
• [20:17] — Andie MacDowell’s career recap and place in the film
• [32:55] — The mad science of Hollywood selling “Green Card”
• [36:29–44:44] — The Depardieu ‘problem’: from dangerous charm to real-world scandal
• [46:43] — The making of Green Card, Weir/Depardieu/MacDowell collaboration
• [50:49–55:51] — Rom-com theory: “the lie”; why this film’s structure is better
• [63:18–66:16] — The film’s balancing act with Depardieu’s off-kilter energy and “danger”
• [87:45–92:11] — New York, that greenhouse apartment, and location as a rom-com protagonist
• [97:56–101:29] — BB Newirth appreciation and why her character is crucial
• [126:10–139:41] — The state of rom-coms, both historic and current
• [143:23–146:48] — Box office, awards, Oscar/GG race

---

Final Thoughts

Blank Check’s "Green Card" episode is a robust, often hilarious deep-dive into the oddities and charms (and dangers) of a gentle early-’90s rom-com that stands as both a time capsule and an unusual entry in Peter Weir’s filmography. The conversation expands outward to embrace the genres’ history, sexism in Hollywood, the irreplaceability of stars—and the dangers of treating stars as untouchable icons. Zuckerman’s expertise, especially on the structure and social role of the rom-com, gives the episode particular depth, and moments highlighting supporting actors and New York locations provide additional color and nostalgia.

Whether you’ve never seen "Green Card" or vaguely remember it as “that odd Depardieu movie,” this episode positions it in its proper, peculiar context—amidst a genre (and star system) in flux.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank Check with Griffin and David. Blankjack with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the shadow is Blackjack. The story of two friends who got a podcast, did bits, and then fell in love.

[David Sims]

So true.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, this movie does have a perfect tagline.

[David Sims]

It's a really great tagline. Do you know the tagline?

[Griffin Newman]

No, I'm gonna.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Was it. Was that it?

[Griffin Newman]

That was a riff. That was a little riff on it. It's the story that was taglines.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Who got married.

[David Sims]

No. Two friends. Because we're the.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, yeah, no, obviously. Two friends. Two people.

[David Sims]

The two. The story of two people who got married, met, and then fell in love.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, it's good.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of gets you. That's how the film industry used to work. If you could walk into a. I will.

[David Sims]

The poster does look like Obelix is kidnapping a woman.

[Griffin Newman]

David, I like this movie a tremendous amount. I had never seen it before.

[David Sims]

Look at him. I know. This is a favorite of yours. She is mine.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a thing we're gonna have to keep talking about in this movie where this movie is super charming and sweet and exquisitely made, and yet it is this study of what is the weird charm of this guy.

[David Sims]

Totally.

[Griffin Newman]

And part of it is, yeah, this guy is why no Shrek. Is he emotional terrorist.

[Esther Zuckerman]

You know, like, I thought you were going to do something like, I. I wanted you to do something like in a French accent, like, I am a beast. Or the beast will come out.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Or something like that.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. This movie is trying to present Gerard Depradu as, like, the Walt Disney version of the Beast, who's not actually that bad of a guy, but obviously has this kind of, like, rough, oafish personality. And then you're just like, you know, it's really close to, like, just. We took all the bad things out of Gerard Depardieu and left the baseline. I mean, I was hot and sexy guys.

[David Sims]

I hate to, you know, get it.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And that's fine.

[David Sims]

We can discuss.

[Esther Zuckerman]

We'll discuss that. I.

[David Sims]

But it was not like.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, I know.

[David Sims]

It's not, like, shocking proposition in 1990. This is the thing. Times change. Or do they?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, yes, but also, I think times

[Esther Zuckerman]

change for Gerard Deper.

[Griffin Newman]

Do was. This was the real project. This was the. Do we get. How do we make Americans get Depardieu?

[David Sims]

And I think this is the one time that Americans really got him. Yeah, I guess so. As, like, a romantic lead.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I mean, yeah.

[David Sims]

I think the other stuff oh, God, 1492. Right. Like his other stuff later.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But, like, didn't Americans. It was the same year, but, like, didn't Americans get him. Even though in Syracuse that was.

[David Sims]

That was.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Which is like, obviously a French film,

[Griffin Newman]

but gets him an Oscar nomination.

[David Sims]

It was just a huge crossover.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But, like, here's this guy who's in his third decade of being a movie star in France.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And had worked with Bertolucci, had sort of like, touched the. The membrane of Hollywood without fully crossing over.

[David Sims]

I mean, he was a French actor. That was the. The most crossing over international films that existed.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And he was in, like, the last. We'll. We'll talk about it.

[Griffin Newman]

And in the 90s, there was this push of, like, are you ready to meet Francis Robert Dairo?

[David Sims]

I've got that bag for you. Well, he got a hand job next

[Griffin Newman]

to Robert Dairo, and that's where in the movie, you know, you should try being me. I wish there was a. A French Fockers trilogy with Depard.

[Esther Zuckerman]

There must be something approximating that. That sounds like. Like there's so many crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

So many movies.

[David Sims]

Right. Like, he made a bunch of silly.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Like, he probably did something also French comedy is this. I. I know. I. I don't want to offend someone who is French.

[Griffin Newman]

My mother is French. Yes.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Are some of the most insane, stupid

[David Sims]

things on the planet or isn't it always like, oh, my daughter, she married an immigrant. Oh, right. Like, it's like a lot of that.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of that. Let's also acknowledge that Depardieu's breakout was in the movie Going Places, which is basically just about a contest. I'm sure a bunch of French listeners are going to explain. Explain how I'm not paying proper, Proper respects to going places?

[David Sims]

No, I don't think so. Going places in, you know what in French it's called, like, you know, that was the American title for going places. And then we'll introduce our pocket. In France, it's called levalus, which means the ball.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

It's like. It's like slang for the balls, but, like, that's what it means.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what it means.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Every year I can. I've been going for three years now, and every year there's some movie that sort of pops up that's like the French pick. And it's like, often there's like a French comedy and you're like, oh, wow, this is just playing so much differently here than it would.

[David Sims]

You see the French. Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Well, you're like, it. There's French comedies that are like, based on very retrograde cultural, socioeconomic, racial stereotypes.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then regional stereotypes as well. Bonvenue Lucy, which is like the biggest French comedy of all time, I think it has not been beaten since. But then there's like, you will go to France and there will be giant billboards for a movie that is just like four firmly middle aged actors wearing like suits and dresses, making faces. And you're like, what's that? And it's like, it's been number one five weeks in a row.

[David Sims]

It's called like, you know, the fart family walking into wall.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's like, it's called out like a conscience.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like, what's it about? And you're like, it's kind of just about like two couples have a dinner, but then it finds out that they've all slept with each other.

[David Sims]

There's a lot of puns, but you wouldn't understand because it's French puns. And so, you know, there's a lot of, you know, double meanings.

[Griffin Newman]

Some of them are like these kind of classical, almost like stagey French farces just for.

[Esther Zuckerman]

They haven't really gotten over that. No.

[David Sims]

I remember when I lived in Paris, there was a movie called Paris made in 2008 starring Juliette Binoche that I believe was sort of like the, you know, Valentine's Day or New Year's Eve of, like, French movies. Because it was like a big ensemble movie with a bunch of stars that was just called Paris. And the only thing about it was it was set in Paris.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

Is it? Is it? Have you seen it?

[Griffin Newman]

The Cedric Lapage? Yes, correct. Yeah, I've seen it. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I remember when I was just like, looking at that, I was like, is this like the biggest French movie? It's just called Paris.

[Griffin Newman]

Is this the biggest French movie of all time? Or is everyone.

[Esther Zuckerman]

What if we had, like, New York?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Because there was Perry and Don Perry were around the same time. And Don Perry is much better. Don Paris is Louis girl and Roman Darice.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that one's fun. That's about, like some. Some, you know, Shaggy boys. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Depression. Yeah, it's about two brothers. That movie rules. And then Perry, I'm trying to remember, but I have seen as well.

[David Sims]

It's got a huge cast, a lot of Frenchies. Romain Durie is in that one too.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

What's he up to these days?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I realized because he's so good in all the money in the world,

[David Sims]

oh, yeah, that's right.

[Griffin Newman]

He's excellent in that film.

[David Sims]

Sort of a movie. I forgot.

[Griffin Newman]

And I was like, yeah, he doesn't do enough, like, American films. And I looked, and I think that's literally the only one.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I guess it's just not. Well, you know what? He was the French voice. This is so fun when you learn this of the Edward Norton character in Isle of Dogs. I'll tell you that much.

[Griffin Newman]

There we go.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but he does a lot of. Oh, man. And he did a movie called Efel about Gustav. E. Felt like a biopic.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Where you're like, that doesn't even make it to America. But in France, they're like, please.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It was also in that really big three minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. He's a great actor. Like, he. I think he's one of the best movie actors working. And he's. Yeah, but it's just.

[David Sims]

And he's got. He's got a hanger. I've seen it. He does, like, 50 movies.

[Griffin Newman]

But I even feel like his biggest French movies haven't crossed over super wide here.

[David Sims]

Not since, like, Beat that My Heart Skipped, you know? But in those early days, he was having some. Yeah, what can you do? I'm sure. Was he in Deperson or whatever it's called, you know, Was he in Call My Agent Ever?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. It just felt like Depardieu was the one male French star they really tried to make work. There's a history of, here's the most beautiful woman in France.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And we try to make her convert. And that usually does work, but for a period of time, you know, you have your. Your Sophie Marceau, you have your Isabella. Johnny, you know, I'm sure. Certainly Bardot and, like, Marin Couture has probably had a better, more sustained, fully French and American career. Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, you're forgetting the queen, the number one. No, no. The whole thing with Juliette Binoche is anytime you see her in a movie, you're like, this is the best movie I've ever seen in my life. I had this.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Mothers around the country were captivated by chocolate.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Well, that's true.

[Griffin Newman]

And wanted a bite.

[David Sims]

Love her. Yeah, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

You just named the French actors who've crossed over. It is an interesting list because I'm thinking of, like, Vincent Cassell. Right, yeah. Where it's like, he crossed over. But in America, mostly, he plays the weasel.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say, with the men, it's usually kind of that, where you're, like, in. It's a little Mads Jon Renau he

[David Sims]

plays the living cigarette.

[Griffin Newman]

But the Mads Mikkelsen effect, where you're like, hollywood has accepted this guy doing one kind of thing.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Maybe two.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Girl has sort of had a little.

[Griffin Newman]

But no.

[David Sims]

If Gorel shows up again, you're just like, who's this guy? Molester.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

I know in Little Women. Yeah, he has the. But you know, that's sort of a role, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of.

[David Sims]

There was one French actor who accepted an Oscar with pleasure. And what was his name? Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

Jean Duardin. I'm helping Dujardin.

[David Sims]

Who did he beat for best actor?

[Griffin Newman]

George Clooney, I guess.

[David Sims]

He just recently won.

[Griffin Newman]

Brad Pit.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right. For Money Ball.

[Griffin Newman]

He beats.

[David Sims]

I just like, I recently watched his, like, win. And the other four guys, you're like heavy hitters. One of them is Demian Bashir, who's a great actor in our. In our friend Chris's film.

[Griffin Newman]

And then the other one, Gary Oldman. Tinker Taylor. Yeah, yeah. I mean, pretty good. Pretty good. That's my example of like we. We've talked about too many times. But Jean Dujardin, a name I know how to say, wins best actor. And you're like, you know what? This is kind of a little ready made for Hollywood. He's making it easy for them to cast him. He's weird cartoon version of a Frenchman.

[David Sims]

On the other hand, it's weird that he has an Oscar and a bunch of the guys we just mentioned don't.

[Griffin Newman]

And he basically does not do any American productions anymore.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But also speak in the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

He doesn't. And Monuments man, he's more bilingual now than he was when he was doing the Oscar campaign.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Also, that movie, like, doesn't exist.

[David Sims]

Truly is a memory hold film.

[Griffin Newman]

But he has this small collection of like, I'll do a two scene role in Wolf of Wall Street. I'll do a couple scenes in Monuments Men. And I feel like there's one other film in that period where it was like a supporting ensemble role. And then he has not made any sort of American film in over 10 years.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I think those might be the only two. Yeah, he's made plenty of other films.

[Griffin Newman]

He's there. He's a big star. Biggest star.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's a big star, certainly. And he did another OSS 117 finally.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he did Zorro recently. Did you know that?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, I did a French Zorro.

[David Sims]

Yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

He's like a Chris Pratt. He's stealing all the characters. He was already Lucky Luke. He of course originated Breeze Denise what's that? Breeze dunes. What's that? He's a surfer from Nice.

[David Sims]

Oh, that guy sounds silly.

[Griffin Newman]

That was kind of his Wayne's World.

[David Sims]

That broke their version of like a kind of. Right, Like a Venice beach kind of dude. Like, I am from Nice.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the douche.

[David Sims]

My sunglasses, though, so it's white around my eyes.

[Griffin Newman]

Anytime I would go to Paris and there'd be a poster for a big comedy film, and I'd ask someone, what is this? They'd be like, it's a very specific type of person who lives there. I mean, that's like weird stereotypes, too.

[David Sims]

I mean, as a child, I was obsessed with Asterix books, as I've talked about I'm sure before. And those are all about ethnic stereotypes, mostly of internal French ones, where I would be like, I don't get the joke. And my dad would be like, people are from Bordeaux. Are like that. And I'm like, they are. And he's like, I think so. I think that's the joke. And I'm like, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, Bon is like, big businessman has to move to small town to, like, take care of the operations there. And 90% of the jokes in that movie are the people in this small town say sh at the end of every word. And it performed like Avatar.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Are French people gonna be mad at this episode?

[David Sims]

Probably. What are they not mad about?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Probably. Ah, yeah.

[David Sims]

I lived in your great country. It was nice.

[Griffin Newman]

But it is. It is example of like, right Deper do. If American audiences had familiarity with him, it was like, here's this big, like, burly man who's doing historical epics and intensity and playing the great characters. And they're like, but in France, we find him charming. Would you believe in France, he's something. We wish to kiss him. He's what we call a kiss wisher.

[David Sims]

What's our podcast?

[Griffin Newman]

Our podcast is called Blank Check Avec Griffin at David Griffin. David, I'm giving up the French. This is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success. Cinema. This is the worst episode we've ever done. This is a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear. And sometimes those checks get interviewed by the immigration agencies.

[David Sims]

By Neelix from Star Trek Voyager, baby.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, Today we are talking about a motion picture called Green Card. It is written, directed and produced by Peter Weir. Yep, I believe it's got a big honking Fucking final opening credit card flex.

[David Sims]

You're right.

[Griffin Newman]

And this is kind of his first. In a way. This is his first American blank check. He basically says that he took Witness to figure out how to break through to Hollywood, that this was the dream, his passion project at this moment that he really wanted to make. And the success of Witness granted him, and certainly Dead Poets as well, granted him the freedom to make this.

[David Sims]

It's just so funny. If you look at his career as we will discuss, you don't really see a. I've just been waiting to make Green Card in there.

[Griffin Newman]

And yet you read that he's like,

[David Sims]

exactly how he feels. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Just like, I really liked the script and I want to make it.

[David Sims]

Which I think is correct because it's a great film.

[Griffin Newman]

But he's just taken like two assignment jobs.

[David Sims]

Mosquito coast and Depot Society. Griff, Esther, to be clear. Well, and Witness. So really three? Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He's taken three assignment jobs and he's like, have I proved myself enough that at a lower budget with my casting choices, you let me make the one I want to make? And you're right that it is funny because. And so often in these cases you're like, now can you let me make the ambitious thing with the scary budget that you wouldn't grant me unless I proved myself in other arenas? And he's like, no, I want to make like a pretty contained, right?

[David Sims]

Pretty cheap.

[Griffin Newman]

20 million dollar. I have to imagine 20.

[David Sims]

The budget is listed at 12.5 million dollars.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so is that USD or fronks?

[David Sims]

USD.

[Griffin Newman]

I had to ask our guest today returned to the show to talk about this ROM com? And we can discuss the balance of ROM versus common this movie, which I think is an interesting starting point for conversation.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

The great Esther Zuckerman. Hello. Something of an expert on the subject.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yes. I had never seen this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Neither did I.

[David Sims]

Guys are crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

We're not.

[David Sims]

We're gonna do the wide weekend, I think, just FYI. I'm just inspecting the box office choices here.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, so just establish that tab and then place it two hours from now.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Esther, you wrote a book on ROM coms.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I did.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it now available on paperback?

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, it's never going to be available.

[Griffin Newman]

It's never going to be available in

[David Sims]

paperback because it's sort of the form factor is more like a little hardback.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, but yeah, you can still buy it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's still available and one should. Yes, but did not watch Green Card.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, it didn't really come up in my research. Like I. Because I did try to, like, fill in a lot of, like, blind spots, and somehow Green Card never came up.

[David Sims]

It's a great film that I was introduced to at a young age by my mother because it's a great New York rom com. But I do feel like it's not part of any particular. Particular movement.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No.

[David Sims]

Or like sort of star narrative or anything like that. And certainly it's by a director who never made a rom com again.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. So it was just kind of like

[David Sims]

a funny little thing. It was Oscar nominated. It was a solid hit, like, yada. Yeah. You know, like, it's not like it was a forgotten movie.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Is sort of forgotten now.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it is.

[David Sims]

That's crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it is.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I was.

[David Sims]

I'm right here.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what we're here to do.

[Esther Zuckerman]

David is. And you are sort of carrying the torch. I feel like, for this movie.

[David Sims]

My mom showed me this movie when I was a kid. This is just like a Sims family classic.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But I was like, for instance, I was at a. I was watching the super bowl with some friends. Some very film oriented friend.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Rob was there.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Rob was there. Allison was there. Spike, Martin, Francis, I mean, and now Ra. Our friend Rob is someone who has seen literally everything. Like the great Rob.

[David Sims]

I mean, God bless Rob, who is our friend. He is, you know, sort of psychotic. Yeah. See movies where I'm like, I've never heard of this. He's like, well, it's one showtime at like, the Regal Essex at 11:00am he's

[Griffin Newman]

like, moviegoing Pac Man.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. He is like the king of Cinematrix. Like, he sends me his grids every day, and I'm like, are you cheating? And he's like, not cheating. He just has, like, an insane memory. And he had not seen it and Allison had not seen it. And, you know, I think it is sort of memory hold a little bit. I agree.

[Griffin Newman]

I think David's a little right that it might have to do with the fact that this basically becomes just like a blip in the 90s Andie McDowell kind of arc.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But there's so many more. That's the thing about like, which I honestly didn't even, like, really clock it's before her rom com arc. It is.

[Griffin Newman]

We're gonna put a pin in this. Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

But. But I agree with you. That's what I think is fascinating. And I just want to be able to fully zoom out and talk about the Annie MacDowell thing. The Depardieu thing is so much what's selling this movie of, like, we're trying to make you like this guy, which worked at the time, but then, because it did not last, that also feels like a weird dead end. And then, as you said, David, like, we didn't make a movie before this with this kind of vibe. Never made a film after this with this kind of vibe.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Not really.

[Griffin Newman]

Despite coming from comedy, this is a very gentle comedy, is not one hard on laughs. And his movies that have comedic elements tend to be harder comedic elements than this.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I'm looking at McDowell again. Very interesting career.

[Griffin Newman]

I had completely. Let's just do McDowell now then.

[David Sims]

So the film stars Andy McDowell.

[Griffin Newman]

I had completely flipped in my mind that the reason she is so bad in Four Weddings and a Funeral is because it was before she kind of figured out her thing through working with better directors after.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, it's the exact opposite.

[David Sims]

No, the whole thing with Andy McDowell and Four Weddings is that it will never be explained.

[Griffin Newman]

You can you.

[David Sims]

I'm serious.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I'm just laughing because I thought you were going to explain it.

[Griffin Newman]

And then you were like, I will

[David Sims]

run it for you right now. Quick. Okay. She breaks out in Graystroke Cars, Tarzan, Legend of the Apes, where she is.

[Griffin Newman]

But like, yeah, it's dope.

[David Sims]

But she's gorgeous.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And it's like, okay, Ben.

[Griffin Newman]

Producer Ben. She is cast as Jane in a live action Tarzan movie. Big Warner Brothers production. Because of her look.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And she's very young. So bad in the film that they hire Glenn Close to redub all of her.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It's also because she's like, if, you know, she's got the Southern thing. Yeah, but.

[Griffin Newman]

But she's landing immediately with this framework of like. Well, she's nice to look at.

[David Sims]

I guess so. Sure. She has small role in St. Elmo's Fire, which is a big, you know, movie for that generation, but is obviously a stupid movie. In 1989, she's in sex license.

[Griffin Newman]

Three years later, probably. Yeah.

[David Sims]

She did a little TV in between, but not much. Probably kind of her best role. She's amazing.

[Esther Zuckerman]

She's incredible in it. Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Soderbergh look like a genius.

[David Sims]

A huge movie.

[Griffin Newman]

She's so effective in it. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Then she's in Green Card, which she absolutely rocks. She's thunderous, like 82 points.

[Griffin Newman]

Like Kobe.

[David Sims]

She's also fucking crazy. And then she's in the Object of

[Esther Zuckerman]

Beauty, which skipping right over Hudson Hawk.

[David Sims]

No, I am not.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Okay, sorry.

[David Sims]

That's next Object of Beauty, which I've never heard of, but it's a rom Com. With Malkovich with the poster looks like this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I'm not turned on.

[Griffin Newman]

Me neither.

[David Sims]

I don't really know. It might not be a Rom. It might be a rom. No, it says it's a romantic comedy about the fine art of thievery. Ok. Then Hudson Hawk, which is a huge bomb. I've never. I've never seen.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I have seen Hudson Hawk.

[David Sims]

How is it?

[Esther Zuckerman]

I think it's pretty fun.

[David Sims]

That's one. When people are kind of.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I think it's.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I mean it's not.

[David Sims]

She good?

[Esther Zuckerman]

No. I mean she's barely like. I mean she's.

[Griffin Newman]

It's enough.

[Esther Zuckerman]

She plays a nun who falls in love with him. He sets it on. He's saying, you know, he and Danny Aiello sang.

[Griffin Newman]

She's the only people in the movie who doesn't get to be fun.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like so much.

[David Sims]

She just gets to have a crush on.

[Griffin Newman]

Embarrassing reputation. Is that everyone's like swinging for the fences and every character is over conceived. And she's kind of playing the straight character.

[David Sims]

She plays herself in the player. Little. Little funny cameo. She's in a movie called Deception. Pretty forgotten movie with Neeson. Sort of like a thriller. Whatever. She's in Groundhog Day. Incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

Phenomenal.

[David Sims]

Incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

So charming out in ground.

[David Sims]

You're in love with her.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

She's in Shortcuts. Really incredible. In short.

[Griffin Newman]

Agree.

[David Sims]

Like. And everyone's good in that. But she's kind of one of my favorite.

[Griffin Newman]

And you're like great. Andy McDowell has totally figured out how to act. She's arrived as a movie star.

[David Sims]

One of the most important romantic comedies ever made. Like where everyone is on fire. Good. That is a huge hit and gets nominated for best picture. And she's weirdly flat in it. Like if he doesn't make it, she's

[Griffin Newman]

a contest winner plucked off the street.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I don't think it's entirely her fault.

[David Sims]

I don't think it's.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I mean, I.

[David Sims]

My point is it's clearly not her fault.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I mean.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I love Four Weddings at the Funeral more than any other movie. And I think it's just part of it is that she's up against Kristen saw Thomas, who is just like. Again, you know, like, I don't know, slam dunking the ball. And she's just so out of place in it.

[Griffin Newman]

What's it about?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Four Weddings and a Funeral.

[David Sims]

Have you never seen. No, it's about.

[Griffin Newman]

Are you.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Are you setting us up to say Four Weddings and a Funeral?

[David Sims]

I sure am.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about.

[David Sims]

It's about a group of friends. It's about the lives of a group of friends set over four weddings in one funeral that they attend.

[Griffin Newman]

Those are the only events you see their life connected by. And she.

[David Sims]

And it's like a will they. Won't they romance? That.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Grant and her have.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. She's an American, I think she works for Vogue and she's very stylish and she shows up at the first wedding and they sort of. They. They have sex, actually, that first wedding.

[David Sims]

Sure do.

[Griffin Newman]

But kind of assume they'll never see each other again.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And then one of the one. Yeah. No spoilers.

[David Sims]

She's hot. Like. And the whole point is she's this sort of mysterious object of affection, but she and Grant just don't really have much.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. They don't have the casting.

[David Sims]

Sort of weird. And it kind of doesn't matter. The movie rules. It weirdly doesn't affect badly, but yet

[Griffin Newman]

everyone comes out of it going, why is she so bad?

[David Sims]

And then she. Her career dies.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, she keeps making movies, but, like, she never was like a big deal again.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

When it should have been like, great. You were just in a huge hit, like, Get Rid. And she's in, of course, Michael, a film we've covered on this podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. She's in the Muse.

[David Sims]

She's in your favorite film of all time, Muppets from Space.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. She's pretty good in it.

[David Sims]

Can't say.

[Esther Zuckerman]

First of all, do you like. Do you actually like my favorite.

[Griffin Newman]

I have a lot of issues with that film.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But she plays a rival new local News reporter who Ms. Piggy is trying to beat to the scoop of alien existence.

[David Sims]

She's never stopped working. Like, she's, you know, working all the time. She has produced, of course, a. The Hollywood's great ingenue Now Margaret Qualley.

[Griffin Newman]

I thought she was excellent in Magic Mike xxl.

[David Sims]

Loved her in that. Did you like her in Goodrich? She has a couple scenes there. We talked about that movie on the show. We did.

[Griffin Newman]

I do feel like every time I see Andie MacDowell show up in that size of role in a dramedy, I'm like, she's really kind of aged into something interesting.

[David Sims]

I remember liking her in Ready or Not, the horror film. Very fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Same.

[David Sims]

Obviously, she's in Beauty Shop, your favorite film.

[Griffin Newman]

Not your favorite film. Not my favorite.

[David Sims]

She says, for your FYI. Or does Alicia Silverstone.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Alicia Silverstone says that. Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

She is quite good in the limited series, which I'm sure you guys didn't watch made. Which was. Which was. It was Margaret. It was a. It was a role for Margaret that she plays her mom in. And she's very done. I mean, I think the beautiful thing

[Griffin Newman]

about M A I D. Yeah. Yes, I remember that.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I think the beautiful thing about, you know, I mean, she's got a Golden Globe. Yeah. She. And she looks incredible. And she has gone totally natural. Like she has gray hair.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Esther Zuckerman]

She, like, if she's had work done, it's like super barely. She is aged incredibly.

[Griffin Newman]

It is one of the things feels.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And she now has this. I mean, I guess she always had it, but she feels so earthy now in a way that's very interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

Is the one of the things I like most about seeing her show up and stuff now.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It is crazy that. It's just a crazy weird career.

[Esther Zuckerman]

She also has really weird. Best hair of any human that ever lived. I mean, there's that moment in this movie where he's like. Where she puts her hair up to go to dinner and he's like, your hair looks better down.

[David Sims]

Here's another reason. I think this movie is a little forgotten.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

What year did it come out, guys?

[Griffin Newman]

1990.

[David Sims]

What's another movie that came out in 1990?

[Griffin Newman]

Pretty Woman.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, there was actually. I was doing a little bit of research. I'm sure that.

[David Sims]

And. Which is in my opinion a far inferior film to this film. I don't really know.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I. I think. Yeah, I don't like Pretty Woman that

[David Sims]

much, but I appreciate the phenomenon. I'm not, you know, I'm not here to deny it.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I, I didn't mean to step on JJ's toes, but I did do a little Googling. I didn't do that

[David Sims]

enough to fire you.

[Griffin Newman]

We've been trying to get JJ to Google. We've been asking him for years.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, but there's a story in the New York Times literally about how Green Card. I can't remember which came first, but like. Well, that. Yes, I think Pretty Woman came first because there was a story in the New York Times that was basically like this is trying to do the Pretty Woman thing and it's not working. Like, you know, it's not working as like. Well. And it's like it's. It was almost framed as they were trying to copy it, but it was

[David Sims]

like Pretty Woman was March 1990.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And was obviously this runaway success for like the whole year. And Green Card comes out Christmas time, 1990.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. It's a funny article. I. I read it Sort of confused, almost like, why would you even compare these two mov movies, you know?

[David Sims]

Well, it's got two people in it.

[Griffin Newman]

A man and a woman have two people and they're Green card.

[Esther Zuckerman]

The literally. Oh, Karen James wrote this.

[David Sims]

Oh, Karen James.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Karen James, our colleague at the colleague at the New York Film Critics Circle. Green Card apes Pretty Woman was the headline. Green Card was not conceived as daughter of Pretty Woman, although it seems that way now.

[David Sims]

Pretty Woman, she's walking down the street. You know,

[Esther Zuckerman]

also, they were both touched like that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, they're both touched.

[Esther Zuckerman]

They're both Touchstone. And part of it was that it wasn't that, oh, the movies were the same, but that Touchstone was trying to market it the same way because they were like, you know, I also think

[Griffin Newman]

there was this codification of what a Touchstone movie was, which was really important to the film ecosystem for a while. I remember a Mad magazine article in the early 90s. I only read it for the article.

[David Sims]

Sergio Aragonius. You tore it out. I don't want to see it. Sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

Those spies are up to no good.

[David Sims]

We cannot support the spies.

[Griffin Newman]

Get out of here. Antonio Proas he. There was an article that was what if Walt Disney was awakened from cryosleep? And it was a multi page illustrated comic story of Walt Disney being shown around the 90s, right. Like how things have changed Walt Disney by Michael Eisner. And it's saying, and here we have Touchstone Pictures. And he goes, what's Touchstone Pictures? And he goes, touchstone Pictures is our label for films with more adult themes that we could never release under Walt Disney Pictures. Like for example, Pretty Woman, a movie about like a financial maven who falls in love with a ho ho prostitute.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

And he goes, oh. And at the end she's like sent back to her life of struggle. And he's like, no, he basically like marries her and makes her a PR princess. Like the bit that they were sort of found a way to make movies

[David Sims]

that almost had a Disney arc to them.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Being for grown ups, I think of

[Griffin Newman]

Touchstone films with a lot of warmth.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Because there was not just because of the era it represented, but it did feel like Touchstone had a lot of good mid budget, kind of gooey movie star comfort food.

[David Sims]

I think of the warmth because when lightning strikes hot and that's what Touchstone,

[Griffin Newman]

you don't want to touch the stone. If lightning's hit it. You don't, I think, see that logo?

[David Sims]

And you're like, yeah, 100%.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that's sort of. Maybe what people were starting to comment on is like, is this just going to be their fucking beat now? And, you know, up until that point when they found it, Eisner and Katzenberg, their whole strategy was like, get diminished value stars.

[David Sims]

Yeah, sure. Like a sort of a B level guy. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

They were like, bet Midler, five Picture Deal, Richard Dreyus, Five Picture Deal.

[David Sims]

So easy.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but it was either people who had flops they were too afraid to recover from or. Or had just kind of like alienated too much of the industry and you

[David Sims]

could get them at a. Dreyus wasn't either of those. Right, right. He hadn't had any flops or alienated anybody.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's. I think it's down and out in Beverly Hills is Dreyus, Nolte and Midler, who were all like, bargain basements, clearance, must go movie stars. And that movie opened to number one at the box office. And they were like, see, our thing works. The trailer for Green Book, which is very deranged.

[David Sims]

I assume you mean Green Card.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

Yes. Because nobody does an accent in Green Book, that film. No one's doing a kind of like a big ethnic sort of accent.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me correct myself.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Eating a pizza.

[Griffin Newman]

The trailer for Green Book is sensitive, profound.

[David Sims]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

Funny, right?

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

And it has a beating heart. Beating heart at the center named Linda Cardellini. The trailer for Green Card is insane.

[David Sims]

I haven't seen the trailer.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a 90s trailer.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Watch the trailer.

[Griffin Newman]

It was on the Blu Ray. It felt like it was 12 minutes long.

[David Sims]

She's a horticulturalist.

[Griffin Newman]

He.

[David Sims]

We actually. It's hard to tell what he does. Who knows?

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe a composer walks around in a cloak. A lot of that. But there's so much voiceover talking through every plot heaps in the pile.

[David Sims]

She needs the apartment.

[Griffin Newman]

But this is the one, the part I want to call out. Touchstone Pictures presents France's most acclaimed actor, Gerard Depardieu, and America's newest film sensation, Andy McDowell. In the story of two people, yada, yada, yada, like the wind up on that fucking trailer.

[David Sims]

I mean, I guess I get it because it's like neither of them are household names, but they are both, you know, you can present them credibly as, like, this. These are new, exciting.

[Griffin Newman]

We need to explain to you why these are movies.

[David Sims]

She just won the. You know, in a movie that won the Palme d'. Or.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And he is from France. Yes.

[David Sims]

Which is cultured.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But do you think like. Like, do you think the sex, lies and videotape was, yes, at all of a selling point for her at this point. Okay, I know it was a big hit, but it's interesting, I guess too

[David Sims]

sexless and media tape mood, more money than Green Card.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Like that's interesting also though, to like transition from that into sort of like sweetheart terror also.

[Griffin Newman]

Why I think that's sort of what

[Esther Zuckerman]

I'm, I, I, I, I'm more mean. Which is like, you know, you know, a little sugar.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that's why they're not naming sugar. They're not going. And from sex, lies and video.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Filming people who fuck.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. They're saying, america's newest film sensation. And you're like, oh, right. They let you fill in the blank because they're trying to frame her a different way.

[David Sims]

They did a good job. We love Andy McDowell for about five or six years and then we kind of get sick of her.

[Griffin Newman]

I just think the tagline for this title, which I butchered, but it's a great tagline, but is the thing that like 90s studio exec dreams were made of, like walking in and you're like, here's the poster. One movie star holding another movie star. And you're like, you're promising me two movie stars. And they're, you're like, yes, TBD probably the title is Green Card and the tagline is the story of two people who got married, met and then fell in love. And you're like, you've just told me all three acts. I see the movie in my head

[David Sims]

and it's like, everyone knows what a green card marriage is. No one's thought to do the movie yet. You know, like obvious rom com set up though.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I think what's interesting about the movie is the three acts come are more subtle and not exactly what you would expect from that tagline. Like, I'm expecting, I was watching and I was expecting like, you know, oh, there's one night when they, you know,

[David Sims]

they, they get drunk on the beach, confess the secrets and then it's a raft. Says you, Linda. Sorry. Keep going. Sorry.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Was that send help?

[Griffin Newman]

Have you, have you sent help yet?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Oh, yeah, I sent help with David. I sent help with David. I love send help. But yeah, you're expecting. There's that scene where they're, where they each, they each go to bed in her apartment for the first night. And you know, he's bare chested and burly and he asks her what side of the bed she sleeps on. And you, and she looks at the door and you Sort of, you know, in a more tropey movie, you know, she walks out the door, she sees him. They. You know, they kiss. They maybe do something else. But it doesn't. But it doesn't happen that way. And I think that's a good thing about this movie, but it also makes it a little bit more of an odder duck than you're expecting. I found this movie odd. I loved the ending. I.

[Griffin Newman]

So good ending is incredible.

[David Sims]

The ending is kind of, like, so good. This whole thing made sense.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. That any sort of reservations I had went away. But I still have my problems. I also have problems with Ditbar, too.

[Griffin Newman]

That's my thing as well.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It's a little bit of a hurdle for me to get over. And it's not just because we know now he is a bad person.

[David Sims]

He is a bad person.

[Griffin Newman]

It's quite a terrible.

[David Sims]

Fairly definitive that he's. Is now when I become quite the ogre. Yes.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Is it? Can I now tell my story about my. My most recent Depardieu story was. I was in Cannes last year, and I got an email from an editor at the New York Times asking me to write a story on. It had just. His conviction had just been announced.

[David Sims]

When you say conviction. He has been accused and put on trial several times.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But he. But he finally.

[David Sims]

But there was one that.

[Esther Zuckerman]

There was his sexual assault conviction actually, like. Like, he actually was convicted.

[Griffin Newman]

There have truly just been decades of stories about Gerard Depardieu. And even in this moment in 1990, where it's like, Cyrano is getting him in a best Actor nomination, he's starring in Green Card, he's doing his American press. Like, his first real run of, like, is Are we ready for France's biggest movie star? He says, like, seven insanely objectionable things in interviews that were litigated for weeks in the press in a way that, like, feels like our modern discourse cycle. Back then, people would kind of move on.

[Esther Zuckerman]

He was found guilt. Like, he was found guilty of sexual assault in Last Met.

[David Sims]

And was he getting a pass because he was foreign? Well, this is what Esther's about to tell.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Well, this is like, I. Yeah, I. So they were like, can you write a story about, like, can reacting to it and obvious he's the king of Cannes. Like, you know, you walk down the street, there are pictures of him. He's been in, like, so many. Like, so many movies that were at the festival. And so basically, my task was to go around and find people to talk. I got the Simon. I went to a party And I was like, I'll. I'll shirt on. On the beach. It was very fancy. It was very Cannes. Surely I'll find people. And I sort of started putting out feelers with American colleagues, like, do you know any French colleagues that would, like, be willing to speak it? And a lot of the thing was like, no, no, no, no. Like, we. We cannot speak about Gerard. And I finally just sort of was like, going around listening and seeing if I heard French accents and going up

[David Sims]

to people and I. Profiling people, Esther.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Well, yeah. And so I found, you know, like a publicist who's like, you know, and. And the quotes were exactly what you would expect. Expect, which is like, he's probably guilty. Probably. I found the clip probably guilty. Probably being a very bad man. But he's also been. He has been also more respectful. A man who has achieved an unbelievable work in many demands. And it's just like. It was so, like, walking around and everyone's blowing cigarette smoke in my face. It was just like, the most. But I think there's been a. Yeah. Years and years and years of this happening and being like, whoa. But he's Jaguar. This is. This is what Gerard does. He is. This is fine.

[David Sims]

Francis whole response to Me too made America look like fucking woke point 10. You know, like. Like, it's just like, where they're always just like, yes, but he is good actor, you know, And I'm being. I'm doing a dumb accent and I'm being like, silly and dismissive about it. But it is true that when you, like. Like artists would just, like, sign petitions randomly defending people. And it's like, why? And they're like, well, he's such a celebrate, like, how can you attack art? Yeah, this is, you know, you are

[Griffin Newman]

lynching, you know, presidents.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

The tone is very often like, you know, who knows if these things are true? And even if they are true, such things happen.

[David Sims]

Boys will be boys, you know, blah, blah, blah.

[Griffin Newman]

We cannot deny is that Gerard gave us 50 years of film history. Yeah. And how dare you threaten to erase that? Like, the French's response.

[Esther Zuckerman]

They do not care. Like, he was found guilty. And they were like, I think it's

[David Sims]

getting a little more serious that, like, I do feel like there's been genuine cultural, like, sort of.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And there have been people, like, an incredible stance like Adele, Hinali.

[Griffin Newman]

Only this current younger generation of French filmmakers and actors who are actually pushing back on the thing and even so have experienced insane career repercussions. But, yeah, no, their attitude is just like, it felt like what they saw was, oh, so what? People say a story about Kevin Spacey, and now Kevin Spacey movies no longer exist. They cannot do that to our culture. And they get so defensive.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Honestly, they feel that way about, like, Kevin Spacey.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

He was all over Cannes last year.

[David Sims]

The other thing is that he became this, like, comical, like, cube of a man.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Who not only was, like, credibly accused of basically just being a total creep, you know, for decades, but also is like, and I will pay no taxes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And I can piss anywhere on an airplane that I want. And, you know, it's just like, he was just this, like, car cartoon villain.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, but he was given, like, such cultural indulgence. Right. That you're like, this guy is just like.

[David Sims]

He randomly, like, wrote a letter about how Putin is good. Like, he was really freelancing out into other areas of evil. Like in the 2010s and 2020s, like, kind of like the sort of Steven Seagal approach of, like, I'm flooding the zone.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Bad in every direction.

[Griffin Newman]

And also, like, my. My uncle, who's an actor in France, is just like. Yeah. It's like one of the open secrets that Gerard has used an earpiece for, like, 25 years, even when he's doing, like, stage, when he's doing tv, when he's doing film. Like, he's a lazy piece of shit and he doesn't learn his lines. That is me quoting an angry working actor in France at, like, how much they let Depardieu get away with and basically would say, like, he shows up and he doesn't know the character is. And the audience applauds. Like, he just became so deeply tied, reputationally, to the idea of French cinema. Like, this is our living legend. And nothing he could do would distort the sort of enormity of all of it. So just made so many fucking movies.

[David Sims]

A ton of movies. A bunch in Hollywood, but way more in France.

[Griffin Newman]

And he sort of genre, right.

[David Sims]

He sort of successfully morphed from young, you know, interesting actor to leading man to, like, older comic actor, supporting to opal.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Like, he even.

[David Sims]

I mean, when they were making the Asterix movie, they were like, there is one Obelix, and it is Gerard Depra. I remember no one else could play this man.

[Griffin Newman]

I remember reading an Asterix book in, like, the early 90s, and in the front page, they had a caricature of Gerard Depardieu, right, as Obelix. And I was like, why'd they make it Depardieu. And my mom was like. Because they just know he's going to play him in a movie at some point.

[David Sims]

Because, like, the asterisk keeps changing in those movies. And Depardieu is oblix for three, the first four. Like, he didn't change.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's how I would put it, Ben. Okay. Imagine if the biggest star in Hollywood. And I know in your head you're probably thinking John Goodman, right?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Was not asked to play live action. Fred Flintstone was basically asked to play live action. Barney Rubble.

[David Sims]

Yeah. He did it like, this is sort

[Griffin Newman]

of the Barney 10 times.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And the guy playing Live action, Barney Rubble had, over decades, been seen as the nation's greatest heartthrob, our most intense dramatic actor. I mean, like, all of it. And you're like, now kids are like, yeah. David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

You look like a man who doesn't know that Fast Growing Trees is America's largest, largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers.

[David Sims]

I had no idea.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, well, David, they have all the plants your yard or home needs, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, and houseplants. My home is littered with all of these, and they're all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy.

[David Sims]

It's like your local nursery, but anywhere you live with the more plants than you'll find anywhere else. And whatever you're looking for, Fast Growing Trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate, space, and lifestyle.

[Griffin Newman]

For me, all inclusive. I. I'll take any kind of tree you got.

[David Sims]

Griffin, I know you're, you know, a green thumb.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And I think I got 10 green fingers.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I think you're going to agree with me on this, that, you know, you go to a garden center and you just find it so overwhelming and inconvenient.

[Griffin Newman]

You took the personal statement out of my mouth, Ben. That is how I feel.

[David Sims]

And then here's the other thing. You try to hire some landscapers. It's too expensive.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm so tired of spending every day of my life on the phone with landscapers.

[David Sims]

Listen, with Fast Growing Trees, it's just so reassuring that, you know, you're going to order plants and they're guaranteed to be healthy and to thrive.

[Griffin Newman]

But let me guess, when the trees arrive, it takes a really long time. Time for them to grow.

[David Sims]

They have their alive and thrive guarantee. It promises your plants arrive happy and healthy. No green thumb required. Just quality plants you can count on. Plus, get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants, learn how to care for them every step of the way.

[Griffin Newman]

Can you imagine if wall E had a promo code for fast growing trees? That movie would have been sold. It never would have even existed.

[David Sims]

Right now they have great deals that on spring planting essentials. Up to half off on select plants. And listeners of our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code check at checkout that's an additional 20% off. Better plants have better growing at fast growingtrees.com using code check at checkout fast growingtrees.com code check. Now's the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use check to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. All right, I'm going to open the dossier before we can. We can return to the sort of where deparger was in his career for Green Card. But I want to open the dossier. Witness. Peter Weir. He's transitioned to Hollywood. He made a massive hit. It's called Witness. Wins two Academy Awards.

[Griffin Newman]

John Book.

[David Sims]

His name is John Book.

[Griffin Newman]

His name is John Book.

[David Sims]

He's got to go to Amish country.

[Griffin Newman]

He witnessed.

[David Sims]

You like Witness?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

Witness the fitness.

[Griffin Newman]

Witness the fitness British song.

[David Sims]

People will understand.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, my God.

[Esther Zuckerman]

His follow up, I thought I was like, what?

[David Sims]

His follow up, the Mosquito coast. Not successful.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I like that movie.

[David Sims]

I do too. But, you know, you know, sort of went over a little tepidly at the time. Doesn't really get awards and so on and so forth. Peter, we are very frustrated by this. Thinks about getting out of Hollywood altogether. And, you know, he hasn't written a movie since Year for Living Dangerously. That's the last time he's credited on a screenplay. But so then he's just kind of like, I think I should just write something for myself. It can be something commercial. But like, maybe this is what I'm frustrated about right now. Green Card is kind of, he says, it's like it's, I got to get back in the game.

[Griffin Newman]

His movies have been getting more epic too. He was working in extreme landscapes, period. Different cultures. Yeah.

[David Sims]

The way he puts it, I was reviving something. Frank Capra had perfected. The romantic comedy A Light Snack.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I do love a light snack. Girl dinner, as they say, is our rom coms now. Girl dinner.

[David Sims]

Our rom coms. Girl dinner. Now, of course, rom coms have to be about FBI agents who are rumbled and it turns out they're going to do a spy mission.

[Griffin Newman]

There was one.

[David Sims]

Is there another one?

[Griffin Newman]

There Was one announced, I think yesterday, a new Eddie Murphy. And I'm astonished to say this streaming movie.

[David Sims]

Wait, wait. Eddie Murphy wants to make a straight to streaming movie? It won't be anonymous.

[Griffin Newman]

He has some weird medical condition where if they project him onto a big screen, he melts. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like Alex Mack.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Bottle of metal.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just waiting for him to start to become the first actor with an exclusive deal with Delta Airlines.

[David Sims]

No, he's gonna be the first actor who's like, they aied me. I'm a AI now. Yeah, they can just put me in anything now.

[Griffin Newman]

I watched his last one, the Drop, which sucks. Eva Longoria plays his wife in it and is quite good. They've announced that of course they now need to re team as if the public's demanding another.

[David Sims]

Wait, he made a movie called the Drop.

[Griffin Newman]

Or it's called the Take.

[Esther Zuckerman]

There's another movie called the Drop?

[David Sims]

Yeah, because the Drop is the one with Tom Hardy.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe it's called the Pickup.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And then there's Drop.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Which is the phone one.

[David Sims]

Yes. Looks like Pete Davidson's in this one too.

[Griffin Newman]

Uh huh. Kiki Palmer was Pete Davidson. Eva Longoria, was he playing a character

[David Sims]

that's like really different from like his general vibe as a guy?

[Griffin Newman]

David, you joke. I would argue the problem with that movie is he is playing a character that is way too different from his general.

[David Sims]

Okay, fair enough.

[Griffin Newman]

It is Pete Davidson as I can't get laid. I don't know how to talk to girls. And I'm like, are you fucking winking at the cameras this whole movie?

[David Sims]

But I feel like Eddie Murphy looks at him and it's like, is that his deal? Like Eddie Murphy's just like, correct. So on Planet Famous he's like, that's this nerds.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the energy of the movie is like Pete Davidson making Eddie Murphy. Murphy. Look at text exchanges being like, I don't know. Shut up.

[David Sims]

So you didn't like it?

[Griffin Newman]

No, it sucks.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a movie for idiots and losers.

[David Sims]

But he's announced another streaming film.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course, Eva Longoria is kind of good in it.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And then it's like they got a re team. The chemistry was so undeniable on Amazon prime that they're making a new movie and it was called like Parental attachment style or something like that.

[David Sims]

I. I saw. I believe I saw.

[Griffin Newman]

It's an article.

[David Sims]

Okay. Relationship, Attachment parenting.

[Griffin Newman]

Attachment parenting. And I was like, okay, okay. That's like sounds low concept enough. It's like a green card esque title. Is it just about the two parents. Empty nesting. No, it's about the couple who's tied into the mob.

[David Sims]

Right. Relationship is put to the ultimate test when they're forced to counsel a crime boss's family while being held hostage.

[Griffin Newman]

Great. Sounds like it has a bunch of fucking guns in it.

[David Sims]

Probably has a lot of guns.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Guns.

[David Sims]

Like the first couple guns.

[Griffin Newman]

Sentence of that I was like, is it just gonna be evil long? Gorey and Eddie Murphy have to figure out what their marriage is like now that their kids have left.

[David Sims]

Professional comedy. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And just let them talk to each other.

[David Sims]

A light snack.

[Griffin Newman]

A light snack. It sounds like a light snack. Can we talk a little sort of like larger rom com theory here, Esther?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Okay. What do you mean?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I just. The modes of ROM com and sort of like what we each believe in in terms of like, what makes a fruitful ROM com.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

There is a thing this movie does that I value greatly. And I realized while watching it how few examples I could think of of this being utilized, which is I am often frustrated by the ROM com that is predicated on a lie.

[David Sims]

Yeah. You know, the lie is gonna get

[Griffin Newman]

busted, fall in love, and it's just kind of an annoying tension till they get to the conversation and they blow up and someone has to come apologize for being mad about a thing they should have been mad about in the first place. Yeah. Right. This movie is. They're in the same lie.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yes. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

They meet each other for different reasons, forming a lot.

[David Sims]

Right, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But they're a hundred percent on the same page within that. Which is so much better as a kind of like pressure cooker for tensions to develop.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. I mean, I think. I do think there are other examples, though. Nothing is coming to my. I'm sure if I thought about it harder, but I think the situation with the, like the ROM com of deception is always hard because then somebody needs to forgive someone and you got to buy always. And then. And sometimes it works and sometimes it like, absolutely doesn't. And that's like. But it's been. I mean, and that has been like, for instance, like the. The Doris Day Rock Hudson rom coms, like two of them, not the last one, but, like, are all like, he's pretending to be a Texas guy and she's like a working woman. And like, literally, you know, at the end of pillow talk, he literally, like carries her out of bed and like, you know, brings her mom and it's like, okay, she's fallen in love with him, but do we really believe this?

[David Sims]

And the movie has to end. So that's what we. We have to.

[Esther Zuckerman]

The movie has to end, so that's what we have to do. And obviously, it always seems more fair when either the lie is so outrageous or there's so much of a double sort of standard. Like, I think, like, I think sometimes the. The lies work when, you know, it's. For instance, a, like, Lady Eve where she sort of double crosses him and then double crosses him again and, like, triple crosses.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I don't know. I don't know numbers, but how many crossing?

[David Sims]

I'm gonna give you some other ones.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

While you were sleeping. One of the most insane built on a lie things ever where you're like, I love this movie. Except for she will eventually have to reveal I am a psychopath. Like, you know, I have been behaving like.

[Esther Zuckerman]

You've got mail.

[David Sims]

Sleepless in Seattle and you've got male. Both have this.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I'm trying to think what else?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Well, does Sleepless in Seattle actually have it? Outside of the fact that she. It doesn't really. She's like. Like stalking him, but, like, you know, she doesn't really lie to him.

[David Sims]

No, that's more. She's just being insane.

[Esther Zuckerman]

That's more. She's being insane. You've got male is more the. Like, he. He actually lies to her.

[David Sims]

He's not telling her something.

[Griffin Newman]

What's interesting to me is Lady Eve, which I think is as good as any rom com ever made.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Does the triple lie at least? And yet it almost feels like it. Pushing it that far is a commentary on how many rom coms were already built upon lies at that point.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, it feels like postmodern version of like they're just gonna keep lying to each other. And then. Spoilers. The end of that movie is the guy being like, I don't even care what reality is.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Well, I mean, but the thing is, is they break up in the first place in that movie because he is Matt. He actually is mad at her for lying to him. And then she gets pissed at him. So she get. Because she actually does fall in love. So then she lies to him again to back. And then he's just so confused. And that's the screwball thing that happens all the time, which is like. Like, they just get so confused at the end. Like, someone just gets so confused at the end that they're like, whatever, let's like.

[Griffin Newman]

But his takeaway is also like, the energy of you as a person is who I want to be with and who I am in Love with I'll work out whoever the you actually are later.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Is kind of. Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. And I feel like there's some. You know, I mean, this is a shitty movie. Well, it's not a shitty movie, but like this movie. No.

[David Sims]

Oh, oh, the movie you're about to.

[Esther Zuckerman]

The movie. I'm about to say. I do think there are some that try to do like, double deception. Like, you know, I don't like this movie very much, but like, how to Lose a guy in 10 days.

[David Sims]

That's a classic. They're both lying about.

[Esther Zuckerman]

They're both lying about different things. And so you're sort of like. But I. I mean, I just don't think that movie is that good.

[Griffin Newman]

No. I think the unified lie is an underused power move.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think it's also because the best rom coms are. There is a circumstantial reason these two people need to be together.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a reason they can't le. This is like forged in fire. And you can have the arc of like, they're driving each other crazy and then they start to connect and then they realize their feelings and they hurt each other in a way that doesn't feel like, hey, why wouldn't you walk out the front door? Why are you still bothering with this guy?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And there have been some more. We have to date, you know, to like more recent ones.

[David Sims]

It's such a romance novel trope.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. Like we have to dating to. In order to. But I think what's interesting about this is that also they don't. They don't getting into it. They don't think they have to spend any time together. Whereas the fake dating thing has. Is often. Oh, we have to pretend like we're in love and so then we actually fall in love. This event gets there eventually, but they literally are like, bye.

[Griffin Newman]

Once again, it's why the tagline's good. Because they meet. They fucking. No, I mean, they get married, then they meet. They don't exchange pleasantries until after they marry. And it's like so long for them. Road. I guess I should know what your name was.

[David Sims]

Peter Weir.

[Griffin Newman]

Great quote.

[David Sims]

I thought Green Card was a film that should be seen at five o' clock in the afternoon. The perfect sort of late matinee. I never thought of it as a night out sort of film. Initially he wrote it for an Englishman. Right. Like that was his. That was his concept. Right. You know, it would happen one night. He put it in a bottom drawer because he said, just kind of felt irrelevant. Felt like it been done before. Like I was writing it for like a Dudley Moore, you know, Jared Depreju. He's told many different stories of how he sort of first noticed him. But it's basically like I kept seeing this guy in movies. Now the movie he cites the most often is Danton, the great Andre Wadja movie about the French Revolution. Which is mostly. Which rocks especially if you love the French Revolution like I do. But is a lot of sweaty, hot Depardieu as George Danton in his final days. Basically like going like, they are going to execute me. This is so bad. And then yelling at everyone. Why would you do that to me?

[Griffin Newman]

Part of the riddle for American audiences is they'd be like, they think he's

[David Sims]

hot a little bit. But I. Look, I'm sorry. Like I think Gerard Depredieu is so hot. I like, you know, 90s, 80s and 90s depradu.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, absolutely.

[David Sims]

Like he. I find him incredibly magnetic.

[Griffin Newman]

You get it in this movie.

[David Sims]

I. I don't care. I super get it in like Last Metro and like that.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Like all that stuff like that earlier, that part two. I think here he. Here he feels inches inching to Quasimodo.

[David Sims]

I mean the hair slouching towards Quasimo.

[Griffin Newman]

He's full press.

[David Sims]

He's always got the like this like cloak on. It just makes him look like.

[Griffin Newman]

I know.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Like it's.

[Griffin Newman]

We've said this about other actors before and I just want to say as a hyperbolic person, I'm. I'm about to say it. And mean as the ultimate. He has the most face of any person.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Ever.

[David Sims]

There's so many crevices and contours.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Insane. There's no way you can point a camera on him. And that face not taking up like the full frame. You know, just like.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like. It's like a Frank Gehry building or something. You're trying to figure out how it's like set up.

[David Sims]

You know, it's interesting. His son, you know, Guillaume Departure, who died very young. Right. Like. But like, like he, you know, who he had with Elise Von for. Right. His sort of very beautiful wife was sort of like, what if you kind of programmed a computer to make a sort of more conventionally handsome Departure. But you don't lose the nose. Like you still see him in it. But it's kind of like a. This is like the sanded off Gerard.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it was Let the Sunshine in.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

The Claire Denis film where he comes in at the very end a Movie

[David Sims]

about how French men are normal.

[Griffin Newman]

A movie I love.

[David Sims]

Great movie.

[Griffin Newman]

And ends with France's most normal man being her therapist. Her, like spiritual.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, it's a good twist.

[Griffin Newman]

And he shows up just in a close up, like, jump, scare, psychic. He's like reading her before, like 80, 90 minutes in. I swear to God, for a second I went like, is this movie in 3D? Just looking at his face in 2015 or whatever and you saying like, Peter Weir was like, who's this French man who keeps popping up on my screen? Shake this. He wasn't buying tickets for Depardu movies. There were just Depardieu movies playing on the screen next over. And his nose slid in.

[David Sims]

I invade. So he writes this screenplay with Depard. Mind doesn't tell the actor I'm thinking about you or anything like that. He's just kind of like, all right, the Englishman thing is not sparking for me. What if I wrote it for a Frenchman? He's afraid of calling him up to say that he did this. So instead he took a picture of him that ran with an interview he gave in the local paper and he kept it on his desk and he would just look at it and I guess probably just go like, whoa. Every time he looked, there he is again, Danton. He likes the picture. The Frenchman Gerard Depujieu had never given an English language performance. So it's not even like, you're not even automatically assuming he'd work in a movie where he has to speak English. Here's the things that he was interested by. His masculinity, his vulnerability, his mysterious, contradictory quality of child and man, beauty and beast. I mean, yeah, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's the thing I'll throw out that I think is worth considering as well. He's just done Peter Weir. Three big A list Hollywood movie star movies in a row.

[David Sims]

Two Harrison Fords and then Robin Williams.

[Griffin Newman]

He gets along with these guys really well. But that's a level of stardom where the plus side is automatic green light, big budget given to you, confidence from studios. The downside is you're kind of. You got some co authoring with those

[David Sims]

guys and you're on their rails.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And like, obviously he with Mosquito coast, he went against type with Ford and Ford's there with him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But then the reaction from everyone is like, this doesn't make sense for Harrison at the time. Everyone's just like, nah, he's trying to do something he can't do.

[Griffin Newman]

It does feel like he is strategically here trying to make a movie where he. It can be his movie and he is selecting actors. And unlike those guys who are going to command a big salary, but also an automatic green light, the alternate way to go about this is to basically bet on movie star futures and get two people who are in a transitional state where you can point to. Here's what's worked up until now, and if I can get this. Them over this line, suddenly you have a movie star who's worth more than you paid for them.

[Esther Zuckerman]

There's also. But that's such an interesting thing in the case of Depardieu, I think, because I think usually when you're betting on movie star futures, it's that people haven't fully figured out their Persona yet when you're betting on. And here the movie does have to be so catered to, the Depardieness of it all, because he's so, like, there's no way for him not to be that. So it's just an interesting thing because he. He's. Yes, he's not Harrison Ford, but do

[David Sims]

you ever do, like, an action movie?

[Griffin Newman]

Harrison Ford?

[David Sims]

No. Gerard. Different.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, it was. I don't know.

[David Sims]

I genuinely was wondering.

[Griffin Newman]

Him buying a piece of ham. I don't know. No, I don't know. I think it never was that.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I guess what I'm saying is that, like, he has such a star Persona, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, he does.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Does.

[Griffin Newman]

He does.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And that's just an interesting sort of.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, and his. His star Persona is like.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And obviously it's untested in the United States, but it's also just so, like, the minute you see, you're like, okay, I get it.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, like, star Persona was inherently a little lascivious. And it starts with him making these, like, really edgy sex comedies where he's a young man and it's just sort of like, man, this, like, young, dumb, full of calm guy who's got this life to him, you know, and he's, like, built like a fucking rugby player. And. And then, yes, as it goes on, it's like he becomes this more legitimate, like, versatile heavyweight leading man. But there is always that, like, sexual charge to him, which is like some of the stuff where I struggle with this movie where you're like, this character is not presented in a way that makes me uncomfortable, but the movie is pointing to a character. And I can't stop thinking about how right past that line, real world, Gerard DePrade starts.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Well, no, I. And I. And obviously, again, it's, you know, trying to think of where we Were then and where we are now at the same time. I think one of the interesting things, and I agree with you, maybe I wouldn't say troubling, but one of the things hurdles you have to get past is people keep talking about how dangerous this man is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Right. And how he's, you know, it's baked

[Griffin Newman]

into the text that this guy seems like he could something unpredictable.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And obviously we get to the point where it's like, oh, he just did like kid stuff, whatever. And yet you're sort of like, oh, did he do something real bad? Because I feel like this guy could have done something real bad.

[Griffin Newman]

That's. That's the innate dangerous energy Depardieu has. And I think Weir was really smart to make a movie that leads with that.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're. You're worried and then the chips start to. The layers fall away and he's.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I mean, there's that moment where he gets mad and he slams the thing and her. Her picture falls down and breaks glass. And I don't know, there's a weird. It's an interesting thing. And it's obviously modern opinions versus now. But there's an interesting thing to reckon with too, where I don't know if a man ever did that. Like, that freaks me the fuck out like a little bit, you know, and. And I think it gives the movie, I think, this oddness that you have to reckon with now, which also I,

[Griffin Newman]

I like this movie a tremendous amount as well. But it is kind of predicated on Annie McDowell keeps not being satisfied by these kind of hyper woke, liberal Craig Edelman, New York soft.

[David Sims]

I mean, him out of here.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I know, but this movie sets up up like a series of like,

[David Sims]

he's the big one.

[Griffin Newman]

Indefensible Baxters.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And the way she talks about her past relationships and you're like, this guy doesn't even eat meat. All of this is not stuff I hold against the movie.

[David Sims]

It's the no oil, no salt is where.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Loses me.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Or no butter.

[Griffin Newman]

But it does, you know, it does feel like in doing that, the framework is. Anything you might find unsavory about Gerard Depardieu is just a byproduct of him being, quote, unquote, a real man.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Real men do get angry.

[David Sims]

Edelman gets the call for this. It's like you're playing a chinless loser. Right. He's gonna throw you through.

[Griffin Newman]

And also Depard, you, like, clocks you for being too sexually pushy. Like that's the worst case scenario is Debar dude is like, you are not respecting women's boundaries

[David Sims]

playing George Farre.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Uh, so DeBarju reads the script, finally loves it. Says, for me, this is a great situation. You can make a comedy with this, but you can also make the truth. He likes the, you know, the setup. He's committed to make two other movies, so he can't shoot Green Card for the year and a half. Weir is like, ah, fuck. Like, I want to make this Katzenberg's.

[Griffin Newman]

What year is this?

[David Sims]

We're talking probably like 88 or whatever. Because Katzenberg at Disney goes like, it's fine, we'll put the movie on hold. We can start in 18 months. Here's a script, by the way. In the meantime, Dead Poet Society goes off and makes Dead Poet Society. And so Katzenberg is. And then Katzenberg is like, you can have final cut on Green Card. I like this script. It's not going to be expensive. Like, go for it, you know, which cool. Like, like, God bless. Like, they don't do that much anymore. And we're. I think somewhat convinces Disney to basically just be a distributor. Gets a lot of like independent financing. Like make it like an Australian co production. There was still like a big profit from the. Like, we made like a ton of money off this movie. Because he had like a genuine cut.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. He got the Australian Film Board to partially finance.

[David Sims]

He's making it. Essentially no Australians are in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I guess at that point in time there was still a lower tier kind of level of support you could get if it is a Australian filmmaker and some number of Australian crew people, even if you don't film in Australia or with any Australian cast. So he really built this movie in a way that is closer to modern film financing and kind of made out like a bandit. Yeah. While having the full support of Disney in the United States.

[David Sims]

Deborah G. Barely spoke English. They would translate the screenplay into French for him and then translate it back in English so he understood what he was saying. Devorji is famously like completely lost in 1492, which is the Ridley Scott movie in which he plays Christopher Columbus. It's one of the worst. It's the worst Ridley Scott movie ever made. It sucks so, so hard. And I think part of what happened there was he truly did not know the lines. He was saying is like, what these supposedly. You know, and Ridley Scott was probably just like eating cigars and just being like, just get on with it or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, this movie benefits from leaning into his like, rough Franklays.

[David Sims]

Right? Exactly. Yeah. It's sort of. It doesn't even. Right. It doesn't even matter.

[Griffin Newman]

No. David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Got an intentional air about you today.

[David Sims]

Well, I'm more intentional about what I wear day to day. Oh. I like to lean into pieces that feel easy, comfortable and put together.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sure you could get those from anywhere, right?

[David Sims]

No. Quince look. Really, I am.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, he's showing tag.

[David Sims]

I'm literally wearing Quint listeners.

[Griffin Newman]

He's showing tag on main.

[David Sims]

It's been my go to because very clean fits, very nice fabrics. Yeah, they don't feel like cheap fabrics.

[Griffin Newman]

I hate dirty fits. I hate cheap fabrics.

[David Sims]

I am. We're in. You know, the weather's getting warmer. I really rely on my quince polo shirts for the kind of like exactly. Like a formal enough piece of clothing that I can go to the office. But it's comfy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Because we do have a dress code here at Blankfeight Productions.

[David Sims]

So they've got those 100% Pima cotton tees with a sun softness that you gotta feel to enjoy.

[Griffin Newman]

And for the listener at home, David is touching the fabric.

[David Sims]

Pants hit that same balance. Relaxed and comfortable. I gotta tell you, I recently had a birthday and my in laws sent me a quince gift card because they know I like quints so much and I am itching to spend it.

[Griffin Newman]

That's. That's a really strong endorsement.

[David Sims]

That's an endorsement.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Right? Yes.

[David Sims]

Everything at quints, it's priced 50 to 80% less than what you find in similar brands because they work with those ethical factories. They cut out the middlemen getting premium materials without the markup. I've got this cashmere zip.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

David is showing me. Oh, nice cashmere zip. I like that sweater.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very nice.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I wear it all the time. It's got pockets. So refresh your everyday with luxury you actually use. Head to quince.com check for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c dashe.com check for free shipping at 365 day returns. Quint.com check. Focus features in Blumhouse present.

[Griffin Newman]

Obsession. When I have a crush on a guy no one knows, Be careful. I wish Nikki loved me more than

[David Sims]

anyone in the entire world. Who you wish for obsession is 96% fresh.

[Griffin Newman]

On rotten Tomatoes goes I love you

[Esther Zuckerman]

so, so, so, so much.

[David Sims]

It's blood soaked nightmare fuel.

[Griffin Newman]

Brook's blood you put on her.

[David Sims]

You have been warned.

[Griffin Newman]

Obsession.

[David Sims]

Rated R under 17.

[Griffin Newman]

Animated without parent only.

[David Sims]

In theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby. Defarge. You didn't really have a desire to be a Hollywood actor. Didn't feel like he was ever going to become one based on how he. He speaks. Right. And like, I do feel like though he made a lot of Hollywood movies after this. He largely just sort of plays villains or comical oaths.

[Griffin Newman]

My father, the hero is the year after this. That's certainly comical Oath then like what's, what's the 1492 is the year after that. The Dalmatian, he's in. Oh, he's in 102.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's. Isn't he the villain in that?

[Griffin Newman]

He's. He's Cruella's right hand man.

[David Sims]

Right. I saw that film in theaters.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry, the French. My father, the hero is 91. The American remake, which he also starred in, was three years later. And then there. I feel like there's one other big. Well, there's like Bogus, which is insane.

[David Sims]

Never, never, never heard of that one.

[Griffin Newman]

Bogus is Norman Jewison's last theatrical film, I believe. Unless. No, no. The Hurricane.

[David Sims]

Big three. What People bring Jared to Perju and Hilly Jalos.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

It's. It's. Haley Joel Osmond is an orphaned boy who's taken in by Whoopius's godmother and Gerard Depradu is his drunk French invisible friend named Bogus.

[David Sims]

It sounds like a role he's suited for.

[Griffin Newman]

But then, right, he's in Branagh, Hamlet. He's in man in the Iron Mask.

[David Sims]

Right. Well, he's, he's obviously right. Man in the Iron Mask. That's kind of where they found him.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct?

[David Sims]

That kind of like. Yeah, you can play a drunk French musketeer.

[Griffin Newman]

But then also Most importantly, in 1999, he does a film called Asterix and Oblox vs Caesar. And he's like, like, I don't need this American. I got an asterisk movie every three years, no matter what.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And like, I mean, Griff, you and I have certainly both seen Le Placar, you know, like that gigantic hit. Like he made, you know, he.

[Griffin Newman]

A movie giant French. A movie where. You cannot believe Disney didn't remake that in 2005.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know this movie?

[Esther Zuckerman]

I do not.

[Griffin Newman]

It's Daniel Otoy as a man who's going to be fired from his job as an exec at a condom company.

[David Sims]

It is at a condom company. It's the most.

[Griffin Newman]

Francesca. And his next door neighbor is like an old, sad, gay French man. Who was like, I could never come out, but I tried to march and this and that. But the times have changed, and now if I were gay, they wouldn't have been able to fire me. And it inspires Danielle Otoy. And he tells everyone that he's gay and he's fired by discrimination.

[David Sims]

Well, and it's like, because they're a condom company, they cannot fire a gay man. Right Is the implication.

[Griffin Newman]

But then they basically make him, like, the spokesperson for the company. They keep traveling, like, pushing him around, saying, like, look at our gay employee.

[David Sims]

And Gerard Debarju plays the boss who has to do the Seinfeldy, like, not that there's anything wrong with that. And then starts to be like, am I in love with.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Depardieu is incredibly funny.

[David Sims]

He's very funny.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like, perfect.

[David Sims]

It's a really dumb movie. It made, like, 1 trillion francs. It was like a giant smash.

[Griffin Newman]

It won the Olympics that year. France submitted it in track and field. But yes, like, that's the kind of stuff he then gets into where it's like, he's playing Obelix. He's playing, like, funny supporting guy.

[David Sims]

He'll have those art movies or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Two scenes behind a desk and in a cop drama or whatever it is. It does feel like he kind of never did a movie where he was running around holding a gun. But even, like, him showing up in, like, La Vie en Rose was just sort of like, if you're going to make a legitimate French movie, you need three minutes of Depardieu. But he's like, blessing your product.

[David Sims]

Maybe. But I do feel like he stopped, like, the whole thing with him in the 70s and 80s is he is a true collaborator with, like, a lot of the, like, giant French filmmakers. And that kind of goes away. He's still, like, a mainstay in French cinema, but he is not being picked up by, like, the newer names in French cinema.

[Griffin Newman]

Stops being collaborative, period. And I think he becomes a Shut up.

[David Sims]

Who's right, impossible to work with, and is the sex offender.

[Griffin Newman]

There's one I really like called When I Was the Singer.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's him and Cecile de France.

[David Sims]

When I Was a Singer.

[Griffin Newman]

Something like, by. It's sort of an attempt to do

[David Sims]

a sort of fabulous baker boys thing. Like, he's one of the few remaining dance band singers in France.

[Griffin Newman]

It's that plus Lost in Translation. Yeah, it's the sort of, like, weird is this guy sad, stuck in the middle in a loop kind of movie that I thought he was Very good in.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

But it definitely feels like the 2000s are the last time where he even kind of gives a. I mean, true.

[David Sims]

Like, if you look at his. Yeah. It's like, I just have not heard of many of these movies, and I've not heard of many of these filmmakers. Whereas in the 70s, you know, he worked with Renee, he worked with Bertolucci, Obviously, he worked with Truffle. Yes. I mean, that Last Match was incredible. Like, he worked with, you know, Bertrand Bla, you know, under the Son of Satan is a big movie that is Marcus Pliat, you know, a zillion things. And obviously, Jean de Fleurette is like. Like kind of a big breakout, like, you know, all the way.

[Griffin Newman]

It's another thing that helps push him to America. But, like, 2022, which is the last year before his legal troubles completely consume him. He has seven credits. And I think what you're talking about, Esther, of like, the. The act of trying to introduce a star. Right. Or, like, explode them in that way. Getting someone who has the potential and the juice, potentially, was so different at this point in time. With international stars.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Because it's like. It is insane. I think it is one of the few things where I feel the need to constantly give Netflix credit. Netflix figured out how to get people over subtitles.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It is fascinating.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

That it was just always like, even people would struggle with British shows and you'd have to fucking remake them in English, you know, in American English. And Netflix has just made it like, we are an international company. Everything goes on the same site. It catches on with this audience.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And you watch it with subtitles. You watch everything with subtitles.

[Griffin Newman]

Totally. And so if, like, someone pops in Squid Game, Hollywood isn't like, oh, I watched this weird thing. This guy is good. How do we find a new way to introduce him to a new audience? From square one. As if to them, he hasn't done anything. It's like, no, put the Squid Game guy in Star Wars. Like. Like, there. There is a kind of open playing field in that way. Even I feel like. Like Omar Sy, who was like, one of the last guys, where it's like, this dude's become the biggest star in France. Let's put him in Jurassic World. And you're like, he's in this. He hasn't really make an impact. He's in a couple other American action films. Then he does Lupin French series. And everyone's like, oh, cool. Yeah, show us the real fucking thing.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. I mean, I do feel, though, that There are some still hurdles for a lot of these people in the sense that what. It was sort of what you were talking about earlier. So I don't want to repeat anything, but it's like it's the Mads Mickelson thing of what they're getting in the United States is still like third lead in a Star wars thing or you know, sort of some villain role. You know, I think it was like it was sort of what you were talking about with Libya and hung on your no other choice episode, which is that like, you know, the American roles have not been any. And this is. I, I mean, I guess this is not really post. His is not really post Squid Game. But like still, it's still. He's still getting better work in South Korea.

[Griffin Newman]

He's. He's had like, like six franchisey big budget movies in which he played a principal character and all of them are basically exactly the same and did nothing for his career other than normalizing his name above a poster in America. And then you're like, yeah. And then in his homeland he gets to do whatever the hell he wants. He's got like infinite range of versatility

[Esther Zuckerman]

and like, I mean, I was just looking up because I was like, what has Omar side on like post and it's like he's doing a, you know, upcoming. He did the John Woo remake of the Killer and upcoming. He has some people tell me that

[David Sims]

was kind of good.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, I, I never watched it, but

[Griffin Newman]

I heard it directed. He directed Natalie Emanuel.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but I mean John Woo doesn't have a perfect track record these days.

[Esther Zuckerman]

What was that Christmas movie?

[David Sims]

That movie was Silent Night.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Terrible.

[David Sims]

Worst I ever saw.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But. But Omar size. Next big thing is Shadow Force a Joe Carnahan, like I think direct to something.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I think that came out. Am I wrong? I don't know.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, it's. I mean, it says it's in post.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll say this.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I don't know, whatever. Maybe that did come out. I have no.

[David Sims]

It came out last year.

[Griffin Newman]

I went to see Thunderbolts and they were holding us. We couldn't leave the theater because.

[David Sims]

Because you were so excited because the

[Griffin Newman]

Thunder Force,

[David Sims]

the Shadow Force.

[Griffin Newman]

Shadow for the Shadow Force premiere was happening at the same time.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And they held us in the lobby of the AMC Lincoln Square so that Omar side could get to his right.

[David Sims]

Like, ah, the Shadow Force is here.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I don't know. It still feels very hard for that true like crossover.

[Griffin Newman]

It does. Yeah, it does.

[Esther Zuckerman]

In a leading role.

[Griffin Newman]

I think the only thing that's changed is it used to be like, Gerard Upper Due has been one of France's biggest stars since 1975. And now we are going to present them to you and explain to you how historic they are and ask you to just buy in here in his third decade. Right. And that's like what would sometimes feel like a psyop of, like, the way there was so much energy behind trying to get Robbie Williams to connect to America.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Well, if you make him a monkey.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. That it took him too long to figure that out. But everyone's response to that was just sort of like. Like, why do you keep telling me how big this guy is? Let me form my own opinion. I think that tends to people a little bit. And when Gerardo's whole thing is so strange to begin with, you're like, yeah. Are you tricking me?

[Esther Zuckerman]

The hair is just. I. I don't.

[David Sims]

You don't like my hair?

[Esther Zuckerman]

I don't like.

[David Sims]

He's too mushroomy for you.

[Griffin Newman]

It's too mushroom.

[David Sims]

So Andy McDowell, he took a year to find her. Not that she was nobody, but like, you know, like he auditioned people for a long time time. But he liked her, I assume not much.

[Griffin Newman]

Sex lies. Or was it.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And Gerard loved Sex Lives and Videotape. Weird.

[Griffin Newman]

Which parts of that title do you think he liked?

[Esther Zuckerman]

He was like. He was like, I too film.

[David Sims]

I Love to Lie.

[Griffin Newman]

He might have added like five more words to that title.

[David Sims]

So Peter Weir really enjoyed making the film. It had final cut. He had a great, you know, incredible amount of control. Katzenberg did. Did want the ending to change and was basically like, if you reshoot it, if they don't separate, if they humiliate the wreckage Immigration officer, I think you're gonna make like double your money. And Weir was just like. I thought about it, but I was just like, no way. Like the ending is the ending. Like which I also think Katzenberg's kind of wrong. I agree.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I mean, maybe Cat Jeffrey Katzenberg is wrong.

[David Sims]

Jeffrey Hansenberg make the sort of a wrong decision.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Has he? I mean, what about if he had. If he comes up with an idea or.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm reading here.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Vertical short form.

[Griffin Newman]

It's crazy you say that, Esther. I'm reading here in the dossier. He also pitched to Peter Weir. What if the ending is five minutes long, doesn't play at the end of the movie. It plays as the final installment of a Quibi original you can only watch after sundown.

[David Sims]

He was right about many things. Obviously, he was once a very savvy Executive. I mean, I guess he's just kind of going for the, like, you need a happy ending for good word of mouth. But I think the green card ending leaves you feeling pretty satisfied. Like, you're like, they're gonna figure it out.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Like, you know, quibbles with Depardieu and how I couldn't. I was just like, ugh, I love it. Like, I love the ending so much, you know, and it's perfect. I mean, I think that's another rom com thing that we like, like, talk about a lot. It's the perfect sort of like, bittersweet ending that I think some of my favorite rom coms do that. It's like, you know, and you're watching

[David Sims]

the whole movie thinking, all right, so what are they gonna pick here for the ending? Like, you know, like what? You know, because, like, you know the sort of roads this movie can take and they pick the right one. Like, I. That's how I feel watching. I'm like, yes, good. Good job, guys.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Like, because it's. Because I think. And again, this is sort of the thing that I like about the movie. It's all of these beats that don't happen exactly the way you would expect them and don't feel perfectly tied up in a bow. They don't have, like, some amazing sex and then are like, oh, I have to be with you. And they aren't like. And they don't get their happy. Their perfect happy ending, but they do find that they're in love with each other. And he does have to go back to France. Like, it's just like, it's the per.

[David Sims]

It's sort of the big moment is he gets it wrong.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You know, in the interview. And that's when he realizes, like, oh, but there are actually a million things I do love about her. And who cares that I would love

[Esther Zuckerman]

to call up Bob right now and ask him if he could name the face cream that I used, though, I'd

[Griffin Newman]

be like, oh, no.

[David Sims]

It's like in a blue container. I don't know the name of it.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. I mean, it's funny that, like, that is the one it hinges on where, like. And obvious. And then, I mean, his bigger up is that he says that he. I memorized all of them. I think that's how he messes up. If he had just not remembered it, he would have been fine. But it is funny that it's like, I guarantee you, Bob would not be able to name the face cream that I use.

[David Sims]

Hans Zimmer to the score. Young Hans Zimmer in his sort of more synthy days. Very good score, in my opinion.

[Griffin Newman]

But the composer does have a little

[Esther Zuckerman]

bit of that Hans Zimmer sort of exoticism that people sometimes get mad at that.

[David Sims]

Well, his early scores are very world music. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Do you revisit this score? Yeah, absolutely. Those early Zimmer scores are really good. Rain man. This. There's a third one. Like, I'm a big fan of Lion King. You know, it's just visualizing you lying, putting, throwing this on.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Remember when Jeffrey Katzenberg almost got bit by a lion?

[David Sims]

Yes. I mean, no, but yes.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Do you know this? Do you know this video?

[David Sims]

I do, yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Wait, no, I want Ben to finish his thought and then. Oh, I just find it very weird to be like, what did I do today? I listened to Green Card soundtrack.

[Esther Zuckerman]

That's why we love David, though. There is a video thumbs up of a promotional event for the Lion King where they brought out a real lion. Or maybe it was like the Illustrated. I can't remember exactly what it was. Somebody can correct me. But basically, the long story short of this is that it seems like Jeffrey Katzenberg might get eaten by a lion in this video.

[David Sims]

Right. The line gets aggressive in the lion,

[Esther Zuckerman]

gets aggressive, like, towards Jeffrey Katzenberg.

[David Sims]

So when this film, I want to say, begins with rip to her, we love her and we miss her. The 9 train. Little shot of a 9 train disappearing.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. You need to tell us about the nine train.

[David Sims]

You don't know about the nine train?

[Esther Zuckerman]

I don't know about the nine train.

[David Sims]

You're kind of pre nine train.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Back in the day I was born in 1990.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

The nine train was still existing then, but it was on its way out. So back in the day, Ben, you know, on the 7th Avenue line, the red lines of the subway, right? There's the 1, 2 and the 3. Right. The 2 and the 3 are express in Manhattan. The 1 is the local. There used to be a 9 train on that line, too. And it was a local as well. It was the same as the one in every way, except there's no 8 train. There used to be an 8 train, Ben. Long ago.

[Griffin Newman]

What the hell?

[David Sims]

Yes, there used to be an 8 train as well in the Bronx. Let's not talk about that right now. But the nine was skip stop with the one north of 96th Street. So when the one is on its own. And the idea was just like, oh, at rush hour, like, just to speed things along, these trains kind of like, hopped and it was Too annoying. And I think people who lived in upper Manhattan in the Bronx didn't even like it that much. For me, who lived on the. On that line, but not in the skip stop area. It did nothing different from A1 train. But I was just still always. If we got a nine, I was like, look at nine train. It was also.

[Griffin Newman]

It was so funny to get to the platform and be like, what's here? One, two, three. Okay, cool. I bet I can guess what the fourth train is. Nine skipping all the way over.

[David Sims]

Yeah. So when Peter Weir. This movie has great New York, I would say energy in general, I would agree, is navigating a subway station. He hears a chorus of voices led by the Unhoused singer Harry Stewart and the Erasmus group. Sorry, the Emma group, singers named after Harlem's Emma's house for the Unhoused. And he was like, I love this. I want this to be in the film. So that's why those guys are in the.

[Griffin Newman]

For the opening.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I do want to call out because I. I know what happened while I was in the bathroom. Oh, I do think Hans Zimmer's score in this is great.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I just, I just wanted to second.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Do you hear us or did you just think.

[Griffin Newman]

I heard David saying this was an early Hans Zimmer school. I think a lot of the early Hans Zimmer comedy scar scores have aged to varying degrees.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Some of them age better than others.

[David Sims]

I was just talking with Esther about his kind of early, like, world music.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But also, hey, he's still doing it.

[David Sims]

Dune.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right. I think this is like kind of one of the better comedy era Zimmer scores.

[David Sims]

I like, I like that era of his career. It's interesting to hear it now, obviously, knowing what he like, turned into.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct.

[David Sims]

Which he turned into something interesting as well. It's just like completely different.

[Griffin Newman]

But this is like, it's. It's so much my problem of the modern rom com, which barely exists, but what does exist feels like it is just trying to be one step elevated above the, like, Hallmark Christmas movie churn, which is this could have been shot anywhere and we're pretending it's anywhere else. And rom coms benefits so much from, like, a place of specificity, from the feeling of, like, neighborhood haunts and like the. The rhythm of whatever the city or the town is. And like, just the fact that I put this movie on and immediately it's like subway drummer people getting on and off the train.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, I mean, I'm like, this is

[Griffin Newman]

set in a place and it speaks to very quickly what is kind of actually the biggest point this movie is making. We talk a lot about the cinema of men will literally blank to avoid going to therapy.

[David Sims]

One of your favorite, right? Tropes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, this is. And I think this movie's dead on the money.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Can I say it?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Women will literally get married for. To get a great apartment.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's. Women will literally do anything to get the right apartment.

[David Sims]

Amen.

[Griffin Newman]

And I mean, in New York City.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. I was gonna ask in particular to get green card married to get that apartment to.

[David Sims]

Oh, my answer is, you now pay his legal fees.

[Griffin Newman]

Same. But that's.

[David Sims]

That has to be specified.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the thing. This movie gets so right that his terrible person aged better with every successive year. The opposite of Gerard Depardieu, who ages worse every year, is you're just like, yeah, yeah. So now you could justify almost anything in the reality of the movie. If there's an apartment this good on the market.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Now, I did look it up and it is. They did. It's a shout. It's a soundstage.

[David Sims]

I'll tell you. I'll tell you.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Imagine if that happened.

[David Sims]

Can I tell you.

[Esther Zuckerman]

There was. Is there a greenhouse in an apartment?

[David Sims]

I mean, maybe somewhere. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like.

[David Sims]

So I'll tell you. The first garden that they use, that's a community plot. That's a real place that, you know. There was another garden that's like a treed garden.

[Esther Zuckerman]

The one that in.

[David Sims]

In BB Newer's parents correct that they basically moved a bunch of crabapple trees in Central Parks. Conservatory Garden, which is on 5th and 105th over to like a. A sort of terrace to create that kind of like.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Fakey. It's sort of like the frick or whatever. Like this weird kind of.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, it looks sort of. It looks. Yeah.

[David Sims]

The main apartment, it looks like the

[Esther Zuckerman]

part of MoMA outside of the modern.

[David Sims]

Right? Yeah. So. Yes, like that too. Exactly. And the. The main apartment. Yes. They built it on a soundstage because they were like, we are building paradise here. Like, we. We like. It's such a specific vibe. It's supposed to be basically out of her dreams with the arch and the wall fountain and the tiles and all this stuff. But very cool. I'm sure there are places in New York. Yes. Like, weird. Don't you think so, Esther? Like, weird pre war buildings that are like, oh, yeah, there's the weird conservatory apartment.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I love that. It's also not just, man, there's a great apartment. She wants it really really important. Specifically tied to her. Into her interest.

[David Sims]

Yeah, to her. And. And I love the co op board, by the way, being like, the one lady's like, well, I like the couple from the bank. And the other, because, like, she's a horticulturalist. She'll probably be good for this. This place.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, my. My best friends often mentioned on this podcast, Sophie, Fader and Hawkin.

[David Sims]

Lindsay.

[Griffin Newman]

He is a ceramicist.

[David Sims]

Cool.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's like. So he lives in kiln living in New York City. He's constantly having to, like, calculate everything based on what kind of work he could legally do within a New York living space.

[David Sims]

Right. You know, am I allowed to have X in this house?

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Sorry. I. I literally just googled greenhouse. New York greenhouse apartments. And there was. There's a street easy thing. And honestly, this is like, it looks

[Griffin Newman]

like a dream apartment.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. And like, I mean, it's very expensive, but it's not as expensive as I thought.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Can I ask a couple questions? Because you're trying to figure out why Upper west side.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Upper west side.

[Griffin Newman]

You're trying to figure out why it's so cheap. Washer dryer included.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Walk up.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

In Unit Depardieu. No. Because that would drive the price down.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I was gonna say that knocks about $200,000 off your list if there

[Griffin Newman]

is a non negotiable. Fortunately, a French ogre lives in Unit Depardieu. They might pay you to live there.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yes. He's just there being like, your coffee is bad. And. And I like butter.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't want to keep going back to the same joke. Well, but it is crazy how much he looks like Shrek.

[Esther Zuckerman]

He is Shrek.

[Griffin Newman]

He is Shrek. And he only becomes more and more Shrek. Do you know who voiced Shrek in France?

[Esther Zuckerman]

It was a dry deck, right?

[Griffin Newman]

No. A la Shabbat. Because they were like, that's too on the nose. It's too on the bulbous nose.

[David Sims]

The French guy voicing Shrek. Do a regional accent. You know, like.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Like, it says you do the French version of Scottish.

[David Sims]

Like, what's the French version of a Scottish accent?

[Esther Zuckerman]

We're back to this to French stereo.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I. I believe he does. You know Al Shaba the Great.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I mean, sure. I mean, I don't know him personally.

[Griffin Newman]

You should meet Al.

[David Sims]

Be funny if I did.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Let me see if I can find what kind of accent. Keep going through the dossier.

[David Sims]

One of my favorite films that Alan Shaban made where he was because he would direct and star is Just called this. Not kidding. That's what it's called.

[Griffin Newman]

It's called. What's it about?

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

Look.

[David Sims]

Sort of looks like holes.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. He also made a movie called DDA about a dog.

[David Sims]

Sounds great.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a dog who turns into a person. He plays the dog.

[David Sims]

Sounds like, good.

[Griffin Newman]

Made $1 trillion in France. DDA is on their money.

[David Sims]

Shrek5 got moved.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right to summer.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I think they had to redo some of the voices or something.

[Griffin Newman]

Or maybe they were redoing the animation because people didn't like the new character designs.

[David Sims]

Oh, interest.

[Griffin Newman]

They could also script things. They're taking some big swings on this.

[David Sims]

Was it that people, like, figured out what Shrek5 is about? Didn't like it. And so now they're scrambling?

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe.

[David Sims]

Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. I heard what Shrek 5 was about a couple of years ago.

[David Sims]

What you described to me didn't sound great.

[Griffin Newman]

It. But it was a big swing. It was wild.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Mike, you got to tell me.

[Griffin Newman]

I could. I will. I could see them either panicking and going, do we have to rethink this? Or saying, if we're going to do this, we have to get it right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's time to refresh your yard during

[Griffin Newman]

spring backyard days at the Home Depot.

[David Sims]

Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179.

[Griffin Newman]

Like the next grill 3 burner gas grill. Or get $50 off a select Weber spirit grill and bring big flavor to your backyard.

[David Sims]

Then set the scene with. With Hampton Bay string lights that bring it all together.

[Griffin Newman]

Shop spring backyard days for seven days

[David Sims]

at the Home Depot.

[Griffin Newman]

Now through May 6th. Exquisite supplies. See home depot.com pricematch for details.

[David Sims]

So the plot of Green Card, which is a tidy, you know, hour 45, this film, and it's a really. It's a film with, you know, some great. It's got a great cast, but like, pretty much all of the supporting players. It's like a couple scenes. Scenes.

[Griffin Newman]

Crosby comes in, just knocks it out of the.

[Esther Zuckerman]

What time. He must have had more, like. Yeah, he must have had more scenes. I'm sorry.

[David Sims]

I believe you broke the law.

[Griffin Newman]

His character's name is Bronte's lawyer. We should mention her name is Bronte Paris.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Because all of her. Because all. Because her dad named all of her siblings after author.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's Bronte Austin.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Austin Elliot.

[Griffin Newman]

Elliot, right.

[David Sims]

Collection after female authors.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then who's the fifth one?

[Esther Zuckerman]

I don't remember.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, coons.

[David Sims]

Yeah, There you go.

[Griffin Newman]

My name is K Sometimes Parish like to pick up a trashy airport paperback.

[David Sims]

Nothing wrong with that.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, it's fun read.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Robert Pri. Crushes, I would say in his one scene, you've got the great John Spencer. It's like a nice horticulturalist. You've got. Lois Smith is Bronte's mother. Like, when she bad as you.

[Griffin Newman]

You mentioned before, Neelix, Dr. Neelix.

[David Sims]

Do you Spot and Phillips and Doubt is Peggy Young and out not a bald one.

[Griffin Newman]

Nope.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Nope.

[Griffin Newman]

Quite a head of hair on this one.

[David Sims]

What if. And I'm sure that bald endowed. Who I know.

[Griffin Newman]

Friend of the show.

[David Sims]

Yes. Has interacted with endowed in some way at some. Right. At this point, I'm not actually sure. But what if one day and Doubt does take it all off for a role just to find. Just to kind of complete the circle.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know, it shows that, like, does a THX remake or something. Like something where she's bald. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, my favorite performance in this movie.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

BB New Earth.

[Esther Zuckerman]

God, just. And it's also.

[David Sims]

Can we just talk about legally hot.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Can we talk about how BB New Earth is the hottest.

[Griffin Newman]

I want to talk about BB And

[David Sims]

I just want to throw me into. To like a sewer and just, like, spit on.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Also, she has these little, like, rat earrings. Did you clock

[Griffin Newman]

everything that was going on here?

[David Sims]

What's so, like, what she. Because she's. This is her second film role.

[Griffin Newman]

Period.

[David Sims]

Period. Her first film role is say Anything, which she has a small role.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, very small.

[David Sims]

Obviously. She'd been on Cheers for years in that kind of, like, quasi supporting role. You know, like sort of quasi guest. Quasi supporting.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, she went from. She's got, like, two standalone guest appearances, then they decide to bring her back. Then she becomes a recurring, then she becomes a regular, and then she goes back down to recurring.

[David Sims]

Right. She got.

[Griffin Newman]

She wins two Emmys.

[David Sims]

Two Emmys.

[Griffin Newman]

Does she have both of them by the time she does this movie?

[David Sims]

She has one and she's got another one to. She has one more the next year.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what's crazy.

[David Sims]

She had already won a Tony for Sweet Charity. I mean, she's a big, big theater

[Griffin Newman]

actor, but she won a second Emmy for the final season when she demoted herself to recurring. But she did enough episodes to back back.

[David Sims]

They were very. They were very, like, fungible about it. I think she has two Tonys, of course. Can you tell me her second Tony is for Chicago? Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Chicago.

[David Sims]

I recently saw a clip from the Current, like a current production of Chicago.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, because it's the secret. It is. It is the secret life of a Mormon wife.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

Oh, I see.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I was kind of getting the vibe where I was like, if I paid for this, I think I would call the Better Business Bureau. No, it looked pretty shocking.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because like, she's obviously doing nothing and the other ones are like, the other was just sort of around. They're like flapping their arms around.

[Griffin Newman]

They were on E Track or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

What's going on over there? Is it time to wrap it up with.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I think it's time to wrap it up. I think they keep making money by

[Griffin Newman]

like, to me, by.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And throwing all these like reality TV stars.

[Griffin Newman]

I also feel like all of their runs are pretty short where they're like, if one of them sucks, they're out in 10 days and maybe the next one's better.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And then the other thing about Chicago is there are like standbys, like, who are right for years. Like I. I believe, like Charlotte Dambois does it, who's like a legendary dancer. And second, like, does it all the time. Like there are people that can always do it. And Bianca Maric, like, they're people that can always do it and they always just throw them back in.

[Griffin Newman]

But also like do twice a year, do they pick up red phone and go, wayne Brady, we need you back?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yes, I believe so.

[David Sims]

We should get Wayne Brady on this

[Griffin Newman]

show at the king of podcasts.

[David Sims]

Remember when he crushed it on Comedy Bang Bang?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He was so good.

[Griffin Newman]

Wayne Brady's awesome plugging that headgum show

[David Sims]

that no one listens, but he was

[Griffin Newman]

so good on his WTF is amazing.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Back to bb.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, BB Big, big. It's not like this is her best work ever, but it is such a great time capsule of BB at kind

[Esther Zuckerman]

of also when power is like when they go over to dinner at her parents house and she shows up and she's just like legs her days and it is so. And you're just like. Well, everyone should just like Bibi because she's the hottest person that has ever lived.

[Griffin Newman]

She's like 2 foot negative 5.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

She's.

[David Sims]

She's. She's a small.

[Griffin Newman]

She's so cool and yet she appears anything. And you're like, this is the funniest, smartest, coolest and hottest person who has ever.

[David Sims]

Very like debonair, very funny, very wry. She's very, very. She's very, very, very, very, very cool.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Also, you just want to hang out with her. She's so fun. Like. Like, this character. You're sort of. You sort of expect, like, oh, is she gonna be sort of like a villain? And she's like, no, she's just like

[Griffin Newman]

a fun hang, Esther. That's exactly what I like about it.

[David Sims]

Is she gonna cause trouble?

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right.

[David Sims]

You're like, is she gonna make a pass to Deprajun? It's gonna cause all kinds of problems.

[Esther Zuckerman]

She's sort of just like, no, she just likes to party. She's got rich parents, and she's an artist, and she just likes to party.

[Griffin Newman]

I think there's a really another real positive function of her character, which is you're set up to think, oh, she's gonna stir some shit or she's gonna try to steal Dipper do, and she's gonna make a bigger mess or any of this stuff. No, it's like, you understand that this is Annie McDowell's closer friend, that this is someone who can call Annie McDowell out on her, knows her well, cares about her, and also is, like, this guy's interesting. The co. Sign of. I don't know, there's something kind of going on there. It's less about that she's gonna make a move on Depardieu and more that it forces Annie McDowell to reconsider. Wait, you're interested in him?

[David Sims]

Like, maybe I should take a second look at this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And I also feel like. I mean, it's another way in which the movie sort of subverts the tropes that you're expecting, which is, you know, hot, brassy lady comes along and steals the guy, and then he realizes that's not right for her, you know, and, like, that's not right for him. And it's like, no, she's just. Again, she's hot and fun and having a great time.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know what this movie feels like to me? It's like eating a birthday cake and then being told after the fact, this cake is entirely vegan. There were no eggs. Right. Like, it's soybean frosting, and you're just like, huh, it tasted good. I didn't question it at all. And the more I study how you were able to make this without doing the usual things, the more I have to applaud you.

[David Sims]

Right. Without doing, as Esther said, like, the trophy things.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Right.

[David Sims]

You would imagine if I told you it's about a green card marriage, and then they have to pretend to like each other, and then they do, like,

[Griffin Newman]

removes all the unhealthy ingredients in a way that is so unshowy that you're taking it for granted of, like. Yeah, it's like doing a rom com thing and you're like, no, it's actually, like, harder.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I also think the other thing is when they're studying, you know, when they're doing sort of the part where they're studying each other and studying up on. There's something very earnest about it. Like, especially there's something very, you know, they do the montage of them taking photos. But there's something so sort of like, the genuine facts of, like, how do you get to know a person as opposed to the sort of Hollywoodized version of, like, let's just blast through this and, like, make it all a joke. There's something very genuine about, like, the way, you know, though I did. I don't know if that is Gerard Jeopardy's actual handwriting, but it looks like a serial killer's.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

His personality doesn't suggest anything like that. And his sort of backstory way behaves.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I think you're right, though, Esther, that, like, this movie deprives its characters of kind of, like, snappy small talk. Get to know you banter because of the language divide. So it's so often them communicating through actions or struggling to get the other one to understand their meaning, or then, like, basically leapfrogging to deeper, more direct questions. Because the formality of needing to study for this test means that you're just, like, asking things you would never ask on a date.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But I will say that's also the thing that unsettles me a little bit about it too, which is, like, there's something unnerving about it to, like, what's

[David Sims]

the deal with this guy?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, like, what's the deal with this guy? It's also just his presence. He's so. In addition to being like, you know, his face is sort of funny and his haircut is insane. Like, he's so looming. He's so sort of terrifying and seems

[Griffin Newman]

kind of quick to anger, even though he doesn't explode that many times. And he's. He's got some level of criminal history that he explains as, like, boyish shenanigans.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But also this series of tattoos that are all these kind of like. Like impactful moments.

[Esther Zuckerman]

There's something that, like, doesn't never is resolved, which is, you know, which is sort of scary where he has the knife and it's like you draw the knife on one side. If it's like the knife is drawn and then you sh. Then you put it back in its shaft. Once you've gotten your regen. Did I say.

[David Sims]

You said Shaft.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Okay. I think.

[David Sims]

Sorry, John. Shaft. Of course.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. You put it back in its hilt.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's sheath is

[Esther Zuckerman]

Once you've gotten the revenge, and he hasn't gotten the revenge.

[David Sims]

So he's kind of giving you a Sean Connery Chicago Way monologue here. Think about it.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It's just like, there is a sense of danger to him. And I am not opposed to, like, rom com leading men having that sense of danger, but maybe it's just the Depardieu of it all.

[David Sims]

You guys are getting hung up on the real guy, which I understand.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's not just the real guy in his real actions. It is like, what is his energy on screen? And I do think, Esther, there's something to perhaps in this type of character, often you cast a charming person and have them, as an actor, work to affect a layer of edge on top of that that can then melt away. And Dipper do is the opposite side of the equation, which is here's a guy who feels a little dangerous and he's working to, like, show you the charm inside of it, but. So the edge never melts away.

[David Sims]

But it's not really like, you know, it's not like a Heathcliff thing of, like, this is a monster that she must.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, it doesn't hang out with the calico cats or anything.

[David Sims]

That's so true.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I mean, and here's the thing about that joke, which every person I know has made, or at least just three men in that I know have made with the new Weathering Heights.

[Griffin Newman]

The joke of the season.

[Esther Zuckerman]

The joke of the season. I. I think we maybe have to have a moratorium on that joke.

[David Sims]

On that. Wow, you're calling for into Heathcliff jokes.

[Griffin Newman]

You're saying specifically calico.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, I think you did a good job with it. I'm just saying that, like.

[David Sims]

Okay, okay, all right, all right.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna say the other men you're talking about, were they just making jokes about Heathcliff the cat, or did they go for a specific.

[David Sims]

I have not heard the calico angle yet.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, I haven't heard the cat. And so I'm fine with it. I just think everyone thinks they're so clever making a joke about the cat. But you know what?

[David Sims]

If Bronte was hearing about this, how

[Esther Zuckerman]

do you think Emily Bronte would feel about Heathcliff the cat?

[David Sims]

Oh, the cat. I think she would be bemused.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I think.

[David Sims]

I don't. I don't think she'd mind the cat. Guys, what's up?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry, what's going on? I need to.

[David Sims]

They're not called the Calico cats, are they?

[Griffin Newman]

Entire bit myself.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It's not Calico. He's orange.

[David Sims]

No, no, no. But there's.

[Griffin Newman]

He's Critters. The line of toys. The little fuzzy animals.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I was confusing them with who Heathcliff hangs out with. Who are the Cat Alack Cats.

[David Sims]

Cadillac cats. This is from the Heathcliff, like, animated series.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, the one that was recorded while Mel Blanc was dying.

[David Sims]

Right, right. They kind of like flew a drone into his hospital room and we're like, I don't know, say some into the safer corner.

[Griffin Newman]

What's up, Do?

[David Sims]

Wow, he really was on his way out.

[Griffin Newman]

Cadillac cats.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Anyway, sorry to.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone is banned for making this joke.

[David Sims]

You're right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I. I do think there is a thing where. If I had seen this movie when I was. Was younger, prior to knowing the whole Depardieu of it all, I think I might have been more purely charmed and just been able to get over my shit with that, you know? And now and it's again, like, I think I'm pretty good as a, you know, watcher of things to be like, to separate myself from. To. To put myself in the time period in which it was made and to like. I mean, like, think it's something you have to do for your job and like all this stuff. But obviously I do think if I had seen this when I was just before I knew all about. Maybe if I was just an American moviegoer in 1990 who is like, I want to see this in Cyrano. And I'm just like, charmed. I think.

[David Sims]

I think it's like, he's just different. It's just like, there's nobody like him.

[Esther Zuckerman]

There's nobody like him. And it is. I. I do think that is a thing. Thing to the movie's credit, which is like, you can't imagine. You can't, like, recast it with someone else.

[Griffin Newman]

You can't.

[David Sims]

And like. But also that the movie is not, like, this is a stunning.

[Griffin Newman]

No, like, babe.

[David Sims]

It's more like this is. What is this?

[Griffin Newman]

What is this guy?

[David Sims]

I gotta look at this from ten angles. Like, what's going on with this guy?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, but it's just the whole. And everyone who meets him is that love. But there is a. Where his energy is so, so off in a strange way. Where like. Like when he goes and plays, when he's asked to play the piano and he just, like, bangs on the keys. And then plays like a lovely thing.

[David Sims]

Kind of rocks.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It rocks.

[Griffin Newman]

I love that scene.

[Esther Zuckerman]

So weird. Like the first scene where they go to the. Was that a real restaurant? I meant to look that up. The all nations restaurant.

[David Sims]

I couldn't. I didn't think so. I couldn't quite.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Where it's like, you just are like, hey, we have the Swiss dish and we have the. You know.

[Griffin Newman]

But let's even zoom out here for a second, right? The piano scene. We can dig in the piano scene as kind of emblematic of the whole thing. This movie's set up on the idea that he wants to become an American citizen because of the opportunities that could provide him in his career as a composer. And whenever she sort of asks him about it because his English is so broken, he responds strangely. And I watched the movie the first time Am like, is the composer thing a lie?

[David Sims]

Right. Is he truly making this up? Because we don't really have any sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Is he making it up? Her.

[David Sims]

We know she wants to fucking have a husband so she can get this.

[Griffin Newman]

This apartment. This board won't approve. Modern woman living single.

[Esther Zuckerman]

That doorman.

[David Sims]

What a. I don't go for this women's lip. I hate the guy. Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Also, that is what's sort of so strange about it is that, like, is he a composer? Is he not. Is he actually. You know, they talk about how he's, you know, he's got stuff in his past. Like, is he actually trying to be an American because he's on the run. Like, he is a composer, but there's no sort of. He gets fired from his restaurant job. And he's like, well, that's fine. You know.

[Griffin Newman]

He says, I quit.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. And he says, I quit.

[Griffin Newman]

Everything's a little.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Everything feels.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

A little like he's lying to you just in his Persona. And then that never fully. He is a composer.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

But some impression.

[Griffin Newman]

Can we unpack the scene for a moment? So, like, Bibi Newworth takes a liking to him, brings him to the party.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

When you're meeting BB and she's so big part of you is going like, is she doing this to make her friend jealous?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Or is she just sort of such a. Like, wild pre. Rolling that she's like, I don't know. This guy's weird. Let me figure out what his. Yeah. Everyone at the party is kind of a little confused, but like, oh, wow, a Frenchman. How interesting comes up. These composer. They ask him to sit at the piano. He sits there very intensely and then just starts, like, mashing the keys. With his finger.

[David Sims]

This. And to the point that you're like, he's. He's been rumbled. Like, you know, he's making something up because he doesn't know how to do this initially.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what it feels like. And then you're like, it's just like there are moments of tonality within it.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I don't know if that was supposed to be a real piece.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't either.

[David Sims]

I think it is, but you don't totally know.

[Griffin Newman]

Saying you is it. This is the kind of composing I do. You don't know. And you wonder, like, is this him revealing that he's never touched a piano before in his life? And then he, like, comes around and like plays this beautiful piece and does the spoken word poetry over. That is like translated in real time. And it's Depardieu in close up while playing a piano, basically looking down the barrel of the lens with tears in his eyes. And I'm like, this is undeniably effective, right? Like, yes, the whole movie is built around this. Which is. You're just like, why am I drawn into this? Right. This guy has not made sense to me up until this moment. And something is happening here that's emotionally affecting. BB New Worth goes, I think you just got your flowers. And that's what happens. He. She got the trees. Because whatever Gerard Depardieu just did charmed the out of Everybody. Then like 30 minutes later, when they're going through the studying for the test, he brings up or she repeats. They filled in this information at some point that he stopped playing music because he was in love with a woman. They got married, she died, and he couldn't hear the music anymore. And he realizes the way to explain in this interview why they fell in love, to make the case in the most ecstatic way without overly explaining that their love is real, is to say, when I met her, I heard the music again, which is so kind of beautiful and poetic that you see her get charmed by that. Even if it's only a strategic lie, the notion that he could think that way starts to open.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Her up to him a little bit.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It is the rom com leap that I think you have to make with a lot of rom coms, which is like, if this were real life, how would I react to this? And there's something for me that is still. I don't. By the end I get there, but for a lot of it, I don't know if I fully. There's something still like, that creeps me out about the the mystery that is written into the character and the fact that even at the end it still feels like I don't fully know this guy and she is willing and she has fallen for him and he's written her this thing and she's willing to do it it.

[David Sims]

But like, but we don't even know what she's totally willing to do.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I mean, they know.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Well, and that's the thing.

[David Sims]

They know something's going on that they can't ignore anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

Like in the, like to make a very dumb comparison point, make sure this

[David Sims]

is very dumb, please.

[Griffin Newman]

If you were to try to watch the Cosby show and apply. Let me say this, let me say this.

[David Sims]

Activated.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me say this. Go ahead and try to apply cognitive dissonance and go look at just this show history. Nostalgia for me reminds me. Right. You are in an episode of the Cosby show pretty unlikely to butt up against something that directly reminds you of everything you now know about Bill Cosby.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I'm not even at this point, I'm not even talking about the Depardieu of it all genuinely. I'm genuinely talking about the way this character is written. This is my problem is that there is still something that feels odd about him and off about him in a way that, that feels either potentially dangerous or potentially. David's shaking his head.

[David Sims]

I'm not, I'm not with you on this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, let me, let me finish my bridge here because I think Esther and I are feeling the same thing. Right? Which is like if Cosby show episodes.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Oh my God. Honestly, I think you have to stop. You have to. I, I, I, I appreciate you defending me, but also, I don't want to

[Griffin Newman]

hear about the posse, like, because it often defending me. Are you, this is me just like how I think about it. Right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

If Cosby episodes had him regularly going like, I'm going on a date tonight, I'd be like, well, now I can't stop thinking about what would happen on that date. Right. And I think similarly.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, no, no, that's not what I'm doing.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I just think the fact that there is mystery to this character and the mystery is coded as being a little bit dark. It's hard not to let your brain go to darker things because of the guy who's playing.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I don't even think that's it. I just think there is.

[David Sims]

I, I understand what you're saying, Esther. I just don't.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I don't think I have to

[Esther Zuckerman]

say it again, cuz I'm just like, and yeah. And we can just agree to disagree. I just. I think there is something in the writing of the character that leaves me at arms length.

[David Sims]

Ben, you gotta decide. You gotta weigh in. Your take on Green Card, which we haven't heard yet anyway.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Still marry him for the apartment.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, did you like this movie? I mean, you haven't. You haven't weighed in. It was okay. Yeah. Fair enough. I. I don't. I'm not a huge romcom guy. Yeah. What's your favorite romcom? I have no idea. What? I guess I never thought about this. Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You never really talk up a romcom. No. No. Nothing comes to mind. Nothing comes to mind.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Nothing.

[David Sims]

Not a single thing. No. All right, fair enough. I'll. I'll look. Maybe there's one but here. Got to be one but here. This is what I'll say. I watch Depardieu and I'm like, there's definitely moments. Three is effective.

[Griffin Newman]

No question.

[David Sims]

For sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

He's got a great face, great nose, big old nose. I don't see the Riz. I just not seen. Not pop the question of society really at the time.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And the hair. The hair is such a problem.

[David Sims]

He looks like a old ass painting come to life. What you just described is, to me is the Riz.

[Griffin Newman]

Really?

[David Sims]

Well, yeah, because how many people look like that? I know, but it's like he should be wearing one of those, like, Shakespearean weird collars. Well, you can find a movie or two where he's done that. Right? Right. I mean, if you want to see him in period dress. Certainly.

[Griffin Newman]

Allow me to speed round a couple things.

[David Sims]

Yes, please.

[Griffin Newman]

One, this is kind of.

[David Sims]

You're allowed.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No Cosby.

[David Sims]

That's true. With one corollary.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, allow me to speed around one thing.

[David Sims]

Yes, go ahead.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I'm joking. First of all, this is a really strong invisible craft movie. Weir has done so much at this point that he knows exactly how to service whatever type of film he's making. That having been said, there are two camera moves in this movie that I thought were so is classy. Yes.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Is it the. What are those things called in the door.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, well, that's good. Yes. The kind of peephole in the door and the click. That's a great shot. No, it's two moves.

[David Sims]

Classy camera moves.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Where I was like. This is using the movement of the camera for storytelling and for emotional connection in a way that is so unshowy. One of them is when he's talking to Annie McDowell's dad. Her parents show up unexpected it. And he takes on the role of the handyman to justify why he's there. And her dad, you feel like, is sniffing him out as a fake. Andy McDowell's saying, go, you're done. And he wants to stay because clearly he's interested in her enough that he's kind of curious to hear her parents to eavesdrop in on this. And the dad goes into the kitchen after him, and he's going in. You worry. Motivated by suspicion of who is this fake? When in fact, what's motivating him is, I kind of sense the heart of an artist inside you. I sense an artistic spirit inside you. You know, I used to work jobs like this when I was writing poetry. What are you really? I'm a composer. They're having this whole talk. They're having this male bonding thing. He notices that her dad has his arm on a table atop a bunch of papers, including their marriage license. And Depardieu's like, I gotta get that fucking away from him. So that he doesn't see and this whole thing doesn't explode. And he tries to grab it, and it kind of is too aggressive. The dad freaks out a little bit or is a little shaken, falls to the ground. They both go to pick it up, and it's a Polaroid from their faked honeymoon. They stand on the roof of this apartment that is absolutely worth marrying Gerard Depardieu to get with skis. And they. They fake like, three different vacations they've taken together, put in the scrapbook. And the camera move is these two men are both holding the Polaroid on opposite sides. And it's basically the POV of her dad. And the camera just like dollies up with Depardieu of the two of them. The feeling of maintaining eye contact as they're holding this object that they know says a tremendous amount that now needs to be acknowledged in some way. And Deborah do holds that close up really fucking well. And it's that feeling of you are stuck in a moment, as you two would say, that you can't get out of. Right? And then there's another one, which is when it's a beautiful day, he basically drops Annie McDowell off with boyfriend.

[David Sims]

Yeah, Greg, what's his fans.

[Griffin Newman]

And like halfway down the block with envy, realizing for the first time he jealous he is. And rather than walk the opposite way, as he should, he walks towards them to basically challenge her. Are you going to break reality on this or are you going to treat me like a stranger? Either way, I get a closer view at whatever's going on with you and the camera tracking with him as he does that is like really, Really.

[David Sims]

I think you're. I think you're speaking to what Weir brings to so many of the movies we've discussed so far and will continue to discuss, which is that kind of like quiet, classy, non showy, but stylish visual storytelling.

[Griffin Newman]

It is like what does this moment need to convey and what is the best technique to get that feeling across in the story?

[David Sims]

And it's like not as slick and over the top or like whatever, you know, like it's not going to pop in the way that certain big stylish filmmakers do.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's another thing I like about this movie that I feel like doesn't happen often enough.

[David Sims]

Stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like a ROM com that isn't very funny.

[David Sims]

No, it would be. It's a good point.

[Griffin Newman]

It would be false to categorize it as a ROM drum.

[David Sims]

Right. But it's certainly not like a screwball

[Griffin Newman]

movie with a bunch of lines. It is funny, it has jokes. It more than anything, it has a sustained like comedic wavelength to it. But I think it's very concerning.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Over the top.

[Griffin Newman]

It doesn't want to break its own reality.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Well, and the reality of it is something interesting that I wanted to bring up, which is that, that it is very rooted in like 1990. In 1990 New York. And some of that. Some of that feels a little creaky now. You know, the. I think the talk about. I mean, obviously some of it's just the time periods, but like the go the garden argument and like the, the under. Oh, the underprivileged kids, we just bring such joy to their lives of chaos. I mean, it's also fun. That's the lower side.

[Griffin Newman]

And now, you know, even just this energy of. Do you know some people don't eat meat, Right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And also some. There's this moment.

[David Sims]

You will have fish, of course. No, I don't eat that either.

[Esther Zuckerman]

There's this also. There's also a moment where she tells him he's being very right wing right now.

[Griffin Newman]

Cuz I am no wing. You are wing. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I don't want to pay taxes, to be clear.

[Griffin Newman]

And I pe. And the airplane I want. And not in the bathroom.

[David Sims]

No, no. In fact, I avoid it.

[Griffin Newman]

I can't fit your cup of coffee.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It does. It is a version of New York that is very rooted in the real world of the time as opposed to even, you know, Pretty Woman. Yeah, whatever. Well, Pretty Woman, of course. But like, yeah, you know, even the Nora, New York, which is its own form of.

[David Sims]

She's got the sort of snow globe curated bubble.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, even just down to like, starting with like, subway musicians. And it's like, this is like real New York. We're not doing your thing.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And some of it feels a little movie. I think it's. But I think it's interesting. I think the weird thing about rom coms is there are a good number that have this feeling of, you know. You know, David put it, I. I believe his letter box, which I saw. But like, the gentleness and like, I do think there are. There are a couple that, you know, get this. Like, it's not really that funny, but they get the romantic ness right.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're really tied into the characters. They are well observed.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

My letterbox review refers to a list of gentle movies that I curated for my wife after our first child was born, where she was basically like, I cannot watch any movies with a lot of, like, peril or stress and certainly no, like, danger for two children. And so I like, kind of like, I was like, all right, let's really narrow the focus to movies where it's like, pretty low, like, straight stakes. A lot of rom coms, obviously, but, you know, some other stuff too.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

27 dresses where you're just like, who gives a shit? The whole time. But I'm happy.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm a little worried if she's gonna hit it. 28 or not.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Not.

[David Sims]

Morning Glory at the best.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Serendipity. The paper.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I hate serendipity.

[Griffin Newman]

You hate serendipity?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Hate serendipity.

[Griffin Newman]

The paper, I do think kind of rules.

[Esther Zuckerman]

The paper is so good.

[David Sims]

The only issue with the paper is that you're like, why isn't this a master agrees. Because, like, it's totally good. Everyone in it's having fun. You have fun papers. But you're like, the ingredients are incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a three star general. The whole time you're watching it, you're like, shouldn't this just be perfect? What is it not. Not pulling together.

[Esther Zuckerman]

David, did you only rate Working Girl three and a half stars? I don't like that movie that you are silly up.

[David Sims]

I think that movie has huge flaws. There are things about it I love.

[Griffin Newman]

I would say Working Girl is kind of the patron saint of the thing we're talking about where it's like a rom com, mostly with dramatic actors who have comedic chops.

[David Sims]

But it's not that it's not funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Comedy is more tonally.

[David Sims]

I mean, the funny stuff is like junkie's that going.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. Right, Right. And it is kind of doing characters.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No bows.

[David Sims]

Kate Leopold, one of my favorites. Someone like you. A movie for nobody that I have seen like five times. Made Manhattan, terrible. Forces of Nature. Hugely underrated. Leap year, two weeks notice, Fever Pitch.

[Griffin Newman]

The British leap year definitely was a modern, semi modern attempt to do this.

[David Sims]

And it's not that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it does have.

[David Sims]

There's no room at the end which. To sleep in this.

[Esther Zuckerman]

You know, another one that. I was thinking only you is another one that sort of does that. That's the Norman Jewison. Marissa to Robert Downey.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that good? I've always wanted to watch that.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It's. It is. It is one of those. You have to like, get over the hurdle that she seems insane because it's

[David Sims]

like, she's gonna get married. She's gonna get destinies to MARRY Robert

[Esther Zuckerman]

Downey Jr. Like, it's like I. I'm trying to remember the exact thing, but it's like the night before her. What she. There's like a fortune teller who's like, you're.

[David Sims]

You're definitely going to marry Robert Downey.

[Esther Zuckerman]

You're gonna. No, you're gonna marry somebody with this name.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And so then she goes to, like, Downey Jr. So then she goes to Italy and he thinks, trying to find this guy. And then Robert Downey Jr. Lies to her that that's his name. And then it's like, you know.

[David Sims]

Right. It sounds pretty good. It's like by good, I mean sound. Sounds kind of insane.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, it's very insane. And you have to get over the fact that it's like insane and they lie to each other, you know, I wanna.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, no, no, no.

[David Sims]

You finished your thought. Because I'm pivoting off of something.

[Griffin Newman]

My thing's a little bit of a pivot as well. It's a mini pivot.

[David Sims]

I want to shout out Mary Louise Wilson, the only actor in this we haven't cast. A true legend. Like a face you guys all know has a Tony, great theater actor. She's so good. She's the other.

[Griffin Newman]

As Andy McDowell's mom.

[David Sims]

Yeah, we said. We said. We shout. Everyone pry. Of course, we've. We've always. We. But we must give him many flowers. It is crazy that he doesn't have one more scene, but whatever it is. Yeah, they probably. I don't know. It's a pretty economical movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It is. But the billing on it is also weird. Like Prosky's like high billing. John Spencer's like single car and he's

[David Sims]

in like one scene. But he was sort of a name, I guess. He's a great actor. I, I have great, great John Spencer story. I'm going to tell you guys off mic. Is there anything else we want to talk.

[Griffin Newman]

I just want to do this, this, this soft.

[David Sims]

Yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

What's your off of what we were talking about of this kind of modality of romcom that is one that's really hard to execute. And especially now we live in a desert where we're only getting like the dumbest, most synthetic romcoms. Or they have to also be gun movies. Right? Like either they're like $2 movies. Our buddy Amanda Dobbins on Big Pictures Picture was making this case recently where I think they were talking about the people we meet on vacation that movie and was saying how like Hallmark and Netflix have made people think that romcoms are designed to be really cheap programmers. Right. And she was like, you know, there are entire Instagram accounts now with millions and millions of followers based off of travel and based off of. Look at how nice the sweater I bought was. And this face cream I'm using was. Right. If it's just about the access to the luxury events locations, items like people can get that they don't need it delivered to them in a movie. And yet if you're not actually putting that level of like production value on screen and those things are production value tantamount to like a Marvel movie not investing enough in cgi.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Then you're like, then what the fuck am I doing here?

[Esther Zuckerman]

I mean, I think think the other issue though is that for me, the appeal of the ROM com location is not the same as the appeal of someone's Instagram or TikTok. You just want a ROM com to feel like it exists in the real world.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it needs to exist in a specific place.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah. For the fantasy to work, at least for me, the fantasy has to be rooted in the reality of a place and has to be rooted in the, the tangibility of that place. And then I can forgive some of the rom com tropes, some of the rom com ridiculousness that you have to get over because I feel like it's in the real world. I was talking about this with somebody the other day where it's like, I always have trouble. Like, I love rom coms and I have trouble reading romance. I've tried rom com novels and I have trouble with them. They tend to be Very tropey because they're so tropey. And also because the writing's just not good enough for me to, like, glom onto. But also, I feel like.

[David Sims]

To dismiss a genre that I know people enjoy.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, again, not to dismiss the genre that I know people enjoy. I just don't feel like I can latch on in the way. And I feel like when I latch onto a ROM com, it's because the fizziness is in the dialogue is in the writing, and the reality is in the world.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it even goes beyond that, which is just like. For me, it's the magic act of the chemistry that two people are creating, creating. And then when that's working in tandem with the writing, with the location, with the supporting cast, all that stuff when it feels like you've created an ecosystem. But I do agree with you. It needs to feel like it is grounded in the specific. And the specific can't just be the tropes of the characters or the plot beats. It also needs to be, like, a sense of place, even if that place is made up or heightened. And I feel like we're stuck in a lot of, like, streaming movies that are based around vacations where the characters have no relationship to the place they're in. And the place is being rendered very artificially, which is like the worst of all worlds. We're in a fake Maui and they just happen to meet here, you know, and it's like, great. So now you get a fucking surfing sequence. The fuck is. This doesn't mean anything. And I think, like, you know, it's. You want some level of, like, tactility. You want a level of, like, time and place in that specificity. A movie I love, which I will continue defending for the rest of my life, is Materialist, which I think has been so wildly misunderstood. David is making the rudest face a person could possibly make.

[David Sims]

I don't like them.

[Griffin Newman]

I know you don't. You've made that very, very clear to me. But I think Materialist is.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I like materials. I don't love it, but I don't.

[Griffin Newman]

David. David. David is now making.

[Esther Zuckerman]

We sat next to each other.

[David Sims]

Yeah, we did. We sure did.

[Griffin Newman]

And David is making a face that says, don't talk to me ever again. But I feel Materialist is with, like, a pitch black heart and a real cynicism. More attempting a movie on this kind of wavelength than a proper romcom. It is, I think, so much of the. The hyper negative response to Materialist, which I fully understand is a very acquired taste movie. That's not going to work for most people is that it felt like 824 successfully marketed to. People were bringing the rom com back, and people were so ready to just see a fun love triangle movie. And then it was this kind of movie digging into is all of dating bullshit, which then made people feel like you offered me a cookie and then, like, threw acid in my face. They made the money.

[David Sims]

Yeah. No, I was proud of them making their money. I was happy. I made money. I like movies making money.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I want to hear Ben's romcom.

[David Sims]

Yes. Well, you know, I look up this list. I don't know. There's a bunch. I just went to Indiewire, like 100 top romcoms. And it's. It's a reminder that this sub genre, what comes to mind is the stuff I remember as a kid that were very, like, very much leaning into the tropes.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

And that's like all of the McConaughey movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[David Sims]

So I forget when. When I look and I'm like, seeing stuff like. Like Breakfast at Tiffany's, I'm like, yeah. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

McConaughey did a lot of damage. The McConaughey run was quite bad. He was getting worse.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And he.

[David Sims]

He knows it.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I know. And that era was the death of it.

[Griffin Newman]

It was. And it felt. It felt very cynical. And the, like, the McConaissance was all about him being like, yeah, I agree, those movies sucked. Which kind of left those movies even further in the dirt without anyone stepping up to try to reclaim or recontextualize. There's also just the big thing, which is, like, Knocked up skewed everything. When Knocked up hit, people went, oh, can you make a rom com that's dude perspective first and has this kind of, like, harder comedy edge in it. And women will be more willing to see a dude rom com than dudes are to see, like, a more female perspective driven rom com, which I think had already been seen as a bit of a hurdle. And then that leaves you with, like, nothing when that goes down.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Lose respect. Respect for their audience.

[Griffin Newman]

They did. Yeah. And they. They felt like they had contempt for themselves, were, like, embarrassed to be rom coms and had to be like, but it's not really a rom com. Okay.

[David Sims]

But I'll say. 500 days of summer.

[Griffin Newman]

Huh?

[David Sims]

Moonstruck.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, yes.

[David Sims]

Harold and Maud.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And then Roman Holiday, which I just saw recently. I watched with my wife because we were going to Italy, and it was great. Great. You had a bit of a room in Holiday. We did. That's that's true.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, for the first 60, 70 years of cinema, a like wild percentage of the greatest movies ever made could be classified as romcoms. And it's really when they start to nail the formula down to the wall in the 80s and then like kind of 90s touchstone, like just fucking goes like, here it is. It's math.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's a little bit of a, like take actor A, actor B, you know, add situation.

[Griffin Newman]

There are wildly successful movies that come out of that era and ones that have stood the test of time and even the middling ones are fun to watch now. But it does feel like, you know, it's. It's like what fucking happens to Marvel where people go like, oh my God, I get it. I know what's going to happen. I've seen 20 of these. They never change.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I get frustrated like when I was in the process of writing this that like rom com fans have this idea of the rom com sometimes times as being only this like 2000s sort of.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a lack of history.

[David Sims]

Oh like they think 27 dresses is the apex.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And did have 27.

[Esther Zuckerman]

She. She did have 27. And that I find very frustrating. And I think the problem with reviving the romcom a little bit is that that stuff still maybe looms a little too large.

[David Sims]

Did you see your Christmas or my mine?

[Griffin Newman]

What was that?

[David Sims]

No one's seen it.

[Griffin Newman]

Your Christmas or mine.

[David Sims]

They made a sequel as well. You know, even thinking about movies that we've covered on the show that came up, broadcast news, all of the Nora movies. Nancy, Nancy, Nancy, totally. Did we like classify them as romcoms during those series where we like.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, I think they.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Because I don't, I don't know. I don't even think of them as really that maybe the Nancy's.

[Griffin Newman]

Well. And look.

[Esther Zuckerman]

No, I mean, Nora is the queen of it. Like Nora is.

[David Sims]

She's always at the top of the list. But I don't know why. I just, I'm like, those are funny movies. Whereas romcoms. I also equate kind of in my head as being like a little bit schlockier.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But I think that's the problem is

[Griffin Newman]

talking about is that it used to be like these have to be high thread count movies. Like people want to see movie stars looking incredible.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, they want to see.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And I think this is how the.

[David Sims]

A huge problem with materialists.

[Griffin Newman]

Nice homes and outfits. You think that's a huge problem with material?

[David Sims]

I think every actor is so wrong for it and then is styled wrong is like just like they not locked into whatever character she wants. Like that.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the biggest thing with that on that.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, I. I have some issues with the casting in that movie, but I. I will say it. But I think that's the thing that, like, bothers me, which is that romcom got. No, wait, let me. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

That Pedro Pascal and. And Dakota John have no chemistry. That is the point.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Point. Stop it. I have a point to make.

[David Sims]

You go ahead.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Rom coms got equated with chick flicks.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, sure.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And that is the big. And that's from a 90s thing.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It's a 90s thing into the 2000s thing. And I think it's a problem on multiple levels because I also don't think, like, the term chick flick should not exist because flick for chicks, it's in

[Griffin Newman]

and of itself productive.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And then you factor into now that rom com has been like. Like so inundated with the Netflix shock. And the Netflix, you know, and.

[Griffin Newman]

And then on the side of that, ripping off the Hallmark.

[Esther Zuckerman]

The Hallmark shock. And that is the problem. And it's all been denigrated. And I mean, I think it's all comes from, like, a sexist place, which is that, like, at a certain point they start. They stopped realizing that everyone likes these movies, and they thought that only women like these movies. But it's like a very frustrating thing.

[David Sims]

Well, no, social. Just. Right. That we don't have to make an effort as long as it's your Christmas or mine. And then their Christmases get swamped.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the problem with the Hallmark and the Netflix stuff is people go, oh, if they'll watch it. And we put, yeah, $2 into the budget and it stars Joe and Alice.

[David Sims]

Who gives a. Yeah, right then.

[Griffin Newman]

Right then. Then no one matters. I also think you're right that it's one of those genres that in the 90s and the 2000s, where it was financially very, very lucrative, it was never treated with a lot of respect by the industry itself. It was like, this is one of those things we have to make. We. We thank Julia for keeping our industry afloat, but we're not going to take her seriously until she does. Does Aaron Brockovich.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Whatever it is. Even that arc between like, 90 and 2000 where it's like, they cannot ignore her in Pretty Woman. They have to give her a best actress.

[David Sims]

They do. Because it's such a phenomenon.

[Griffin Newman]

Seismic. But by 10 years later, they're like, you're not getting one again until you actually break the genre. And it was always just, well, if they keep making money, we'll keep making them, even if we don't really respect them. The second the fucking obsession with overseas grosses blew up.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it.

[Griffin Newman]

Everything up. These movies are super culturally specific. And it's like, in the same way that we don't want to watch the French movie called Calcance about, like, four people drinking wine and finger banging each other. They don't want to see our movies. Even if they are our stuff.

[David Sims]

They don't want to see our movies.

[Griffin Newman]

It's rare. Those aren't the movies. They want us to export as much. Right. And they rarely would have brought it around.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Around.

[Griffin Newman]

Unless the premise is, like, so gold. But even then, you look at the best rom coms, and they tend to be remade in every country where they're like, we'll do our version of that.

[David Sims]

Like, what?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, there's so many French comedies that were remade as American comedies, like Three Men and a Baby and. And stuff like that. But even, like, what was the. Olivia Wilde's new movie, the Invite?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Sundance is like, it was a Spanish film originally. Coda.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

But that movie is a Spanish film, and I believe it's the fourth remake. Like, three other countries remade it before we did.

[David Sims]

It's called the People Upstairs. I haven't. Yeah, I'm excited. Olivia Wilde, though, she's made a film, directed it.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, she's an actor.

[David Sims]

Oh, okay.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Right.

[David Sims]

That makes more sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And she's in the film.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, of course. Movie I would have heard about.

[David Sims]

The story ends there.

[Griffin Newman]

I would have heard about it. I pay attention to something.

[David Sims]

Green Card Card was released limited Christmas. We're done. We're wrapping up. I'm wrapping us up, guys.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you have something you want to say?

[David Sims]

This has been a spirited conversation. It's a good reminder, though. I need to revisit how I think about the rom com. And you know what I'm gonna do?

[Esther Zuckerman]

What are you gonna do?

[David Sims]

I'm gonna pick up Esther's book. She's got some great, great wrecks in that book. Seriously, if you just, like, watch along with her, like, I highly recommend.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

Her other books are trash, though.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Not true garbage.

[Griffin Newman]

But falling in love at the movies.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Well, yes, but, but, but, but we're. I mean, you know, we're not at the plugs. I mean, we should plug Esther's book. Plug away. But I mean, also kept talking about

[Griffin Newman]

it and not naming it. I thought it was good to name it. Yeah. David Box Office.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Comes out Christmas expands wide, is February 1st.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Okay.

[David Sims]

Made $30 million domestic, I think more worldwide. So like we are made some good movies.

[Griffin Newman]

It gets the best screenplay. Domination made some good money.

[David Sims]

So that I wanted to point out,

[Griffin Newman]

Golden Globe, it wins best musical or comedy.

[David Sims]

I have all this queued up, so

[Griffin Newman]

do you want to say it?

[David Sims]

Yes. So it wins best musical or comedy at the Golden Globes, which is shocking because the other nominees were. This is crazy that it won. I don't know how. They must have paid someone off. Or maybe it was the classier movie. I'm going to give you the nominees for best.

[Griffin Newman]

Remember Euro voting base.

[David Sims]

You're right.

[Griffin Newman]

But listen, because Gerard also wins best act.

[David Sims]

He does, he does. But at least he's sort of, you know, listen to this. Yeah. Dick Tracy. Okay, fine. That wasn't going to win.

[Griffin Newman]

Pretty funny, though.

[David Sims]

Pretty funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Ghost. Yeah, I mean Ghost is. Feels like it's slam dung Home Alone. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But they were maybe snubby about it, but it had made a billion dollars and Pretty Woman. Woman.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It beat all of those out. Like, was there almost like a weird. Like the bigger movies were sort of splitting votes or something.

[Griffin Newman]

It's crazy. I think it's a Euro thing and I think Pretty Woman being released at the beginning of the year and green card at the end of the year, I think it was probably positioned as that this is the headier Pretty Woman. This is the rarefied, the upper class. And I think it's the Euro thing.

[David Sims]

Jeff Rju beats out Macaulay Culkin, Richard Gere, Patrick Swayze again. You'd think the gloves might be going for these guys.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And Johnny Depp and Edwards.

[Esther Zuckerman]

It was the Hollywood Foreign Press. So they were like, I guess so.

[David Sims]

But like, you know, Andy, I think was nominated, but she, she lost to Julia Roberts. They at least for that one were like, I think Julia Roberts maybe should win the Golden Globe.

[Griffin Newman]

And what were the other screenplay nominees?

[David Sims]

I'm going to tell you because it is. It's quite a bunch. Now the winner is. Is Bruce Joel Rubin's screenplay for Ghost, which is a stupid winner. But obviously that movie was such a phenomenon and I think there was that Hollywood of like, you know, you wrote the movie that was sort of out of fashion.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And it worked.

[Griffin Newman]

It's also like he installed Silly Putty where you're like, I don't know if we needed this. It caused a sensation and no one else was gonna think to write this.

[David Sims]

The other reason he won is you look at the Other nominees and none of them really feel like winners. It's Woody Allen for Alice, which is like a weird fucking movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It doesn't exist.

[David Sims]

It's a really interesting movie, but certainly not going to win an Oscar. Barry Levinson's Avalon, which is, I feel like a movie that everyone thought was going to be like. Yeah, his big like next Oscar epic. And everyone was a little tepid on

[Esther Zuckerman]

a pretty good movie. It's a pretty good movie. Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's made though with this kind of like.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very lush historically. It's like his favorite Stableman's or whatever.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, it is, yeah.

[David Sims]

And then Whit Stillman for Metropolitan, which is a feat of writing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Thank God he's got in there. But like.

[Griffin Newman]

But that feels like you're lucky to be nominated. We're giving you that level of respect.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's a weird one because it's the 90 Oscar, so it's Dances with Wolves and Goodfellas are like the big, you know, sort of awards contenders. And then like, you know, Bugsy.

[Griffin Newman]

A like Bugs.

[David Sims]

Is it Bugsy? No, it's not the Bugsy year. It's. No, Dick Tracy is the Tracy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. So it's the following year of shit like fucking Bugsy.

[David Sims]

I guess. I mean Misery wins Best Actress, Best Actor Jeremy Irons for Reversal of Fortune. All the comedies we just noted which are memorable smashes. Ghost, Home Alone, Pretty Woman, it's like, yeah, take your noms. I mean Ghost's got some wins. Right. But at the end of the day, this was an Oscars that tended to ignore that stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know how much of it's the 10, but I've just been thinking a lot about are we a little past the era of like the Oscar winning performances are the only nomination for the movie?

[David Sims]

Yeah, it doesn't happen much anymore. Partly because. Right. 1010 Best Picture nominee. I mean, were there any this year? I mean, weapons.

[Griffin Newman]

Weapons, yes.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Could quite possibly. Yeah. Pull off that exact trick. But like, you know, I feel like a historic one is. Is that Michael Douglas was the only nomination that Wall street got. It's a weird reversal of fortune. Didn't get a ton of nominations, did it? Wrong.

[David Sims]

I might have gotten a few though. Let's see, let's. Great movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Cuz Misery, I think similarly was just the one reversal of fortun.

[David Sims]

Got weirdly got 3 nums. Director, actor, screenplay nominate. Well, Glenn is truly in a coma for most of it. I mean she is. I mean he put her there.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me ask you Though.

[David Sims]

Or did he?

[Griffin Newman]

Did you see her blink once? It's pretty good performance. Made a choice and stuck to it.

[David Sims]

Misery, I think just got the one. Not Misery is the rare. Truly. Which is a little rude because, like, it's actually really good adaptation.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

But I think it's a very crowded.

[Griffin Newman]

And Con's great. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Khan is great. Yeah, Khan is great.

[Griffin Newman]

Con is great.

[David Sims]

I sound insane right now, but he is.

[Griffin Newman]

Khan is great.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Box office. So I'm giving you the February 1st expansion. It's still only number six. It was a slow grower, this one. Number one at the box office. We've mentioned it a few times already. It's a phenomenon. A Christmas phenomenon. It's been number one for three months.

[Griffin Newman]

Home Alone.

[David Sims]

It's called Home Alone.

[Griffin Newman]

RIP Catherine o'.

[David Sims]

Hara. That's absolutely right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. But it was one of the ten highest grossing films.

[David Sims]

And yet the Wet Bandits. Still at large.

[Griffin Newman]

They're still at large, unfortunately. One of the ten highest grossing films of all time.

[David Sims]

Upon Release, it made $285 million domestic.

[Griffin Newman]

Insane.

[David Sims]

We saw a remake it. I mean, they've tried so many shitty versions of sequels and remakes and reboots and, like, it never. It's. Nobody cares, I think.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Also, isn't there, like, a John Hughes thing? Like, he is very specific, like the.

[Griffin Newman]

No, because they've done other ones. I, I, I think I. No, sorry, Esther. I was not saying that in a dismissive way. Just that they've done shitty, runoff Home Alone stuff in a way that I think maybe because he didn't direct it, the contracts weren't as tight.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Because I know he wouldn't let something like Ferris or.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Although they were about to make a Ferris Bueller spin off at Paramount plus, and it got shut down at the last second.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Thank God.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank God.

[David Sims]

The super bowl ads obviously are horrendous now.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I hate all this.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

The one with Broderick where he's like, I love AI because it helps me, like, do spreadsheets. And I'm just watching it. I'm like, broderick, you've never done a spreadsheet. What is this? If you don't work in an office.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Office. The only good was the one with the toilets thingy.

[Griffin Newman]

I didn't see that, but it sounds like my.

[David Sims]

That one. And I mean, it was okay. I left, but there wasn't like a,

[Esther Zuckerman]

you know, it was bad.

[David Sims]

A single tier, like, you know, kind of super bowl ad that you were looking for.

[Griffin Newman]

There's like, the two to three shitty post McAuley home alone, the sequels and then the reboot attempt. And I feel like Macau more recently started being like, what if we did like a legitimate one and it was me as the dad. Right. I think Catherine or her dying kills.

[David Sims]

That kills it even harder.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it kills it really.

[David Sims]

In the weird way, of course. Like her, like later in life, like fifth wave of success probably would have made it easier. Totally. Like, and now it's sort of like, oh, forget it.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And people wanting to see the two of them together. If it's just him, Griff, you just

[David Sims]

know if they do a Home Alone now, it's like he'll have an app. He'll like, you know, swing the. Swing the cans with like an Apple app. Yeah, he'll do. He'll like put a tick tock filter on his face to order the pizza.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's not even swinging cans. He's taping older iPhone models. And then he's using an app to. It's all be apps.

[David Sims]

Number two at the box office is the best picture winner.

[Griffin Newman]

Dances with Wolves.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

So these are. These are just like fucking juggernauts running the box office that are in just three months, month long campaign. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Number three is a film I didn't see in theaters, but definitely saw as a boy. It's an adventure film for young people.

[Griffin Newman]

It's an adventure film for young people. It's not Homeward Bound.

[David Sims]

No. It's more grown up and dramatic than that. But it's definitely still for kids and teenagers. It's a Disney film. It's a major great actor as a young man. Youngster.

[Griffin Newman]

Nope.

[Esther Zuckerman]

But kind of, you know, that level of. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not. It's not the Cusack one. It's not the Ethan Hawke one.

[David Sims]

It sure is an Ethan Hawke.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the Ethan Hawke one.

[Esther Zuckerman]

What's the name of this movie?

[Griffin Newman]

I get all these titles confused. It's not something with a G. Never Cry Wolf.

[David Sims]

No, but it does involve a wolf.

[Griffin Newman]

It does involve a wolf. It's not wolf at all. White Fang. There we go.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I got that before him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. You nailed it, Fang.

[David Sims]

Esther Zuckerman.

[Griffin Newman]

Esther. And I say this. Look at me. I say this from the bottom of my heart. Points.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Thank you.

[David Sims]

Based on Jacqueline's novel. You know, he's. He's in Alaska or wherever the he is. There's a wolf dog. They go on an adventure. I saw it as a kid. I can't say I remember it very well.

[Griffin Newman]

Ethan Hall.

[David Sims]

Randall Kleiser film.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Who made Honey, I Blew up the Kid and Grease.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Did you know there's a new TV show where.

[David Sims]

Big Top Pe.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Where Elizabeth Banks has shrinked? And it's like, shrink. There's. There's like a Honey, I Shrunk the Kids tv. Well, it's not. It's not Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, but it's called A Miniature wife and Matthew McFaddy shrinks Elizabeth Banks. I just think it's funny.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm. I'm gonna say this from the bottom of my heart.

[David Sims]

Oh, my God. This is coming up.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, it's coming out.

[David Sims]

He made her tiny.

[Esther Zuckerman]

He made her small. It's literally Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, but it's Elizabeth Banks.

[David Sims]

But just imagine McFadden going like, oh,

[Griffin Newman]

which platform is this on? I believe Peacock, I'm gonna say this from the bottom of my heart. I think we need to create Skynet and use it to destroy the servers that all of these streaming platforms use. I think we need to wipe this shit out enough.

[David Sims]

Whatever the algorithms are that are making it, like, they've gotta go, yes, we need to do a movie about your mission to, like, tear out, like, servers in, like, Hollywood basements or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm like, I'll just. I'll get a sledgehammer right now and just start.

[David Sims]

We ran the number. McFadden, Elizabeth Banks, he shrinks her. It's enough. It gets, you know, like, the. The profit loss. We. It gets us there.

[Griffin Newman]

And I. I don't know. I, I. We have to create an entity. We have to create. We have to find a pod cover. I don't know what we have to do, man.

[David Sims]

Remember how often they say podkova in that movie? Yeah, we saw that film together.

[Griffin Newman]

I still have so many questions.

[David Sims]

Yeah, Number four.

[Griffin Newman]

I tried to work through.

[David Sims]

Through.

[Griffin Newman]

I've gotten somewhere. Still waiting on Christopher McQuarrie's remaining 800 hours of explaining why it's good he got. He tapped out after four.

[David Sims]

He did. I would love him to come aboard. I wonder. I truly wonder how he feels about.

[Griffin Newman]

I genuinely want him to go through a couple years of therapy.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Maybe write, like, a book, even make another movie. And then, like, be like, okay, you know what? Fine. In retrospect, I made a couple.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I'm opening the final reckoning file.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

3 million will remain redacted, but 3 million will be released to the public.

[David Sims]

Maybe I didn't mean to do that many flashbacks. Number four is a Best Picture nominee from a director who we will Cover on this podcast one day. You're always saying we're going to cover her.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm always saying we're going to cover her. Penny Marshall. It's motion picture awakenings.

[David Sims]

Awakenings. Wake up.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of just like ultimate sturdy Oscar bait movie.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Why is Penny Marshall a joke? Like, I.

[Griffin Newman]

Great question.

[Esther Zuckerman]

You should do it.

[Griffin Newman]

No, great question. And I'm. I'm glad you're saying me up for this, because I think the longer it's been a joke, the more people think

[David Sims]

you're making fun of Penny.

[Griffin Newman]

We would never do it, and we don't think she's worthy of a series. But, like, she is absolutely 100. And I actually want to do her as a series.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, I. I need to do a Penny episode.

[Griffin Newman]

Which Penny would you want to do? A Penny for your thoughts.

[David Sims]

I mean, you can't just call League of Her Own. So come on, one.

[Griffin Newman]

You can.

[Esther Zuckerman]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

I. I'm not asking her to call one. I'm saying which one would you want to do in your heart of hearts?

[David Sims]

You can.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Obviously, I would want to do a League of Their Own, but you get someone more famous to do that. Sorry. You guys are big time now. Let's just.

[Griffin Newman]

A Rod had told us he was interested. A road's become a blinky and a checkmate.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I mean, obviously. I mean, look, riding in cars with boys would be up to do.

[David Sims]

That's fun. Yeah, it's more fun than League of Their Own, dude. Lee. Their own is kind of like, yeah, it rocks, you know, I mean, it would be fun, but, like, the weird ones are funner.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, a Rod has, like, a lot of takes on that one. He said he has some personal stories that he thinks would be a good place to share. I. No, the actual answer is it was a bit very early into our run when we had been covering kind of like more obvious people and landed on that as the joke answer to throw people off our scent.

[David Sims]

It's a Griff bit.

[Griffin Newman]

And then now it has circled back to just. I can always say we're doing Penny Marshall next to divert people's attention from what we're actually doing.

[David Sims]

But to be clear, which is Roman Polanski. Esther, you're on every episode.

[Griffin Newman]

To be clear. I would very much like to do Polanski.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Just people who have. Other people have signed petitions in support of.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I would very much like to do Penny Marshall.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I'd like to do it sooner rather than later. How's next week for you, David?

[David Sims]

Yeah, let's.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Let's do it.

[David Sims]

Number five at the box office is a romantic comedy drama. Uh oh. About a young woman who falls forward, eventually marries an overbearing older man who proceeds to rub her close knit family the wrong way. Would you believe that this film stars Richard Dreyfuss?

[Griffin Newman]

This is what about Bob?

[David Sims]

No, this is not a movie. I really know. It's a Lasse Hallstrom movie. It's his first English language film. The great Swedish director Lasse Hallstrom who became a very mediocre Hollywood director.

[Griffin Newman]

Mediocre Hollywood director almost. Yeah. Two kind.

[David Sims]

He did make sure. Well, he made a couple of good American.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Coming back around, everything's full circle.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, I watched Chocolat for the first time like two or three years ago after most knowing it as like ultimate Oscar villain. You took a bite and I'm like, this rules pretty good. Obviously being nominated for best picture is the worst thing that ever could have happened to it. I wish we had three shokalaza a year.

[David Sims]

I think that like, what is Chocolat about? Dude, dude, it is about. What if you were a stuffy French town and Juliet Bono Roche, like at her peak performance.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Showed up and started making chocolate. And everyone just got so horny.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And then Johnny Depp showed up and

[David Sims]

Johnny Depp is there too, but he's on, you know, Johnny Depp is like

[Griffin Newman]

a Romani drifter who like steals her heart and then returns it to her. Alfred Molina seemingly coming straight from the set of Dudley Do. Right. He's just like, chocolate is bad. He's got the mustache and the cape and everything. Her daughter's pony, brunette. The saddest girl in the history of movies.

[David Sims]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

All right.

[David Sims]

I gotta watch a pretty silly movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Judy Dench is an old lady who's good.

[David Sims]

Chocolate makes them horny. I will report back. I think that like Gilbert Grape Chocolat are the sort of, I guess the two best Hallstrom Hollywood movies I've never seen. Something to talk about.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

The Julia Roberts movie he made.

[Griffin Newman]

Is there another 90s one?

[David Sims]

It's a movie that is again, it's like if you remove the Oscar nominations, like the. The unjust wins. That it got.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You're kind of like, oh, this is interesting. There's things about this that work.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Like it's Princess of New England.

[Griffin Newman]

Personally, I think Cider House rules.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Boo. I had.

[Griffin Newman]

I had to do it. I liked it.

[David Sims]

I liked it.

[Griffin Newman]

Cider House Rules.

[David Sims]

But you know, my life as a dog is like incredible. Like he made great movies. Anyway, this movie I've never heard of. I'll Tell you the stars. Richard Dreyfus, Holly Hunter, Danny Aiella, Laura San Giacomo. So Andy McDowell's co star there. Yeah.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Also Pretty Woman.

[Griffin Newman]

There's like a lot of Jenna Rollins is in it.

[David Sims]

Roxanne Hart, Tim Guinea. I. I don't know this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you not guys Is the title of sentence.

[David Sims]

No, it's like a very generic sounding title.

[Griffin Newman]

It's called Broken Hearts.

[David Sims]

No, it's called Once Around.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Produced by Griffin Dunn. I wonder if he ever considered directing or something. Yeah, I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

He was producing a lot in that era though. He produced Running on Empty.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Griffin until he scenes the winter.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

So that's the top five. Number six is green card. Number seven is it's not a tumor.

[Griffin Newman]

Kindergarten Cop.

[David Sims]

Number eight is a movie called Popcorn. What is that?

[Griffin Newman]

That's a horror film, isn't it? About a haunted movie theater.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I've always wanted seen this poster. I've never seen this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

College students hosting a film festival stalked and murdered by a serial killer. Sounds fun. Number nine is the Grifters. Another Oscar holdover. Great film.

[Griffin Newman]

Great film.

[David Sims]

And number 10 is Hamlet. I think the Mel Gibson Hamlet.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Which is very. A very solid kind of thing.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I remember what Mel Gibson said.

[David Sims]

What he said, it's clueless. She's refer.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, oh, oh, got it. You got a lot of the. The kings of the 90s in that 10. True. For.

[David Sims]

For Trus, you mean?

[Griffin Newman]

No, but you got. You got McAuley and Arie and Costner and Gibson.

[David Sims]

Totally.

[Griffin Newman]

It is like. It's a snapshot of a movie star era.

[David Sims]

Definitely.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, hell got number 11 is Godfather part three.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, look at that.

[David Sims]

Pacino's there. Number 12 is Jacob's Ladder.

[Griffin Newman]

Tim Robbins, the biggest, tallest.

[David Sims]

He is tall.

[Griffin Newman]

One of our tallest actors.

[David Sims]

I just saw Howard the Duck for the first time recently because I'm trying to.

[Esther Zuckerman]

You know what? I know this because you like, liked Ross Loophole's review of it.

[David Sims]

I thought it was funny during.

[Esther Zuckerman]

And it was. He got that notification during our super bowl.

[David Sims]

Excited.

[Esther Zuckerman]

He was like, well, no, because you liked it. And then a bunch of people started

[David Sims]

like, if I like a review, I don't mean to do this, but. Because I have a big following letterbox. Right.

[Esther Zuckerman]

He was like. He was like, what the fuck is happening?

[David Sims]

I mean, his review to me, nailed. I know. I. You've discussed Howard the Duck many times on the George Lucas talk show, I'm sure. Yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Duck tits.

[David Sims]

Yes, duck tits. Right. But his review nailed the whole thing. To me where he's like, what bugs him is the duck is not funny. He's not trying and failing. He's not even intended to be funny. He's just grumpy about being a duck in the real world. The whole movie it feels where's the point of the comic book character is he's like, I'm a wise cracking duck. And this one he's just like, what the fuck's up with me not being in my duck world?

[Griffin Newman]

It feels like real Lucas influence. Influence that if he had been like, I read the comic book and I liked it and I hired funny filmmakers and I let them do whatever they wanted to do.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not sure the movie works, but it's probably more of an out and out comedy.

[David Sims]

Right. I kind of went into it because of its weird status now thinking like, this is going to be interesting. And then I put it on. I was like, this is like sludgy. Like, this is really slow and boring. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, I prefer garbage hill kids movie to Howard the Duck.

[David Sims]

I mean, and it has Leah Thompson in it. Who I would like run a thousand miles for it. She looks great. It also has a duck in it. Howard the Duck. And Tim Robbins is in it. I just remember.

[Griffin Newman]

And Jeffrey Jones, he's really good. Yeah. Legally in the movie.

[David Sims]

What am I supposed to do about the fact that half of Hollywood respects criminals? Griffin, what do you want me to do about this?

[Griffin Newman]

This Stop inviting to your birthday party. That's all I'm asking.

[David Sims]

I haven't had a birthday party. Well, I had one last year. What should I do this year?

[Griffin Newman]

Invite Jeffrey Jones or just text him and ask what he's up to?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Oh my God.

[David Sims]

1-800. Jeffrey. Jeffrey Jones.

[Griffin Newman]

Who else we got?

[David Sims]

Who else?

[Griffin Newman]

We already invoked Kevin Spacy. Cosby runs may be cut out. We mentioned and tripled. I was thinking it is kind of nice that they. They got Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice made while Catherine Harrow was still alive, not knowing that we were gonna lose her so soon. Yes, like that. That movie ends with her being reconnected with her dead husband whose top half has been bitten off. So you don't have to look at Jeffrey Jones anymore. But the movie ends with you being like, she seems happy.

[David Sims]

Yeah, totally. She rocks in that movie. She's really fun.

[Griffin Newman]

She's so good in it. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Not a movie I like. Remember that.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, otherwise watched it again and it grew for me a little. It's a fun. It's fun.

[David Sims]

It's pretty fun.

[Griffin Newman]

It's fun.

[David Sims]

I Definitely was not like, like watching that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I was like, no, you know what movie rules.

[David Sims]

What?

[Griffin Newman]

Beetlejuice.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, a little bit less. Esther, anything you want to plug?

[Esther Zuckerman]

My writing.

[Griffin Newman]

You're writing everywhere.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Well, obviously my book has been plugged. Romcom. So falling in love with the movies romcoms. From a scroll ball era to today, I write many places, including the New York Times and Los Angeles Times. So you can read my writing around there. I'm working on a new book that won't be out by this time.

[Griffin Newman]

But are you allowed to say what it's about?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Yeah, it's about the television show Girls.

[Griffin Newman]

Hey.

[David Sims]

And people are talking about it.

[Esther Zuckerman]

People are talking about it. It will not be out by the time this is done and maybe not out by the time I come back on the show. So we will see.

[David Sims]

You're doing great.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

You're the best.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I appreciate you guys.

[Griffin Newman]

In fact, I would say say you are the best. Oh, never forget anything. Thank you, Esther. I've rewatched Aloha in the last year and do you know that it secretly rips now?

[Esther Zuckerman]

Okay, we should. I should re watch it.

[Griffin Newman]

I've been trying to get David to re watch it, but if you get around to re watching Aloha, please touch base with me.

[Esther Zuckerman]

I will.

[Griffin Newman]

I would rewatch because I really. I should.

[Esther Zuckerman]

We do a reunion pod.

[David Sims]

Let's not go crazy. It's only an hour 45. It's not like a big task.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's say aloha to our previous episode on Aloha. And meanwhile, say aloha to our new episode on Aloha. Here's another thing. I bought the Blu ray and I dug into the special features. There's a 20 minute alternate opening with Jay Baruchell as Bradley Cooper's brother, who is entirely cut out of the movie and has multiple scenes.

[David Sims]

Sounds like they really had a handle on that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

There's also like a 15 minute alternate ending. It's insane.

[David Sims]

Sounds like they definitely knew what was going on in that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Esther Zuckerman for being here. Tune in next week for we have

[David Sims]

our episode on Fearless with guest Timothy Simons.

[Griffin Newman]

Hitmaker. You mean Hitmaker.

[David Sims]

And over on the Patreon, just a few days ago, we released a special Bench Choice episode on the film Edge of tomorrow.

[Griffin Newman]

Slash, Live, Die, Repeat. Yep, Slash. All you need is kill.

[David Sims]

Love that movie. Excited? Well, I mean, we haven't recorded yet, but I'm sure it went great.

[Griffin Newman]

Or have we recorded it like 150 times? There's gonna be so many bits, so many bets.

[David Sims]

Let's have like two. But anyway, if you're interested, you can sign up for Blank Check special features [e-mail] blank check.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell yeah. Esther, you could just get in front of David's mic for one second here. I'm just trying to. To remember the movie. Aloha. It's about the sky.

[Esther Zuckerman]

We're ASMR again.

[David Sims]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smith, research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions. Well, then I'm gonna start rolling.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Are you gonna do a French accent?

[David Sims]

Better.

[Esther Zuckerman]

Better.

[David Sims]

Better. Push that nose up. Get a little hunch. Sort of push it up, but then push it down.

[Griffin Newman]

Kinda like.

[David Sims]

We can discuss.

[Griffin Newman]

We can discuss all this is going at the end of the episode.

[David Sims]

Sort of the contours of that nose.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, ready?