Johnny Dangerously with Josh Gondelman

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David: Episode Summary – "Johnny Dangerously with Josh Gondelman"

Release Date: May 4, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Blank Check with Griffin & David, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims delve deep into the 1984 American crime comedy "Johnny Dangerously," directed by Amy Heckerling. Joined by comedian and podcast guest Josh Gondelman, the trio explores the film's comedic elements, its place within Amy Heckerling's filmography, and the performances of its standout cast, including Michael Keaton and Joe Piscopo.

Exploring Joe Piscopo’s Legacy

The discussion kicks off with Josh Gondelman expressing his admiration for Joe Piscopo's performance in "Johnny Dangerously." At [01:00], Gondelman states, “This is the one time where I'm like, I get why people were buying this,” highlighting Piscopo's unique comedic flair that stood out from his Saturday Night Live (SNL) contemporaries. Griffin Newman adds at [02:13], “Piscopo was the best at hanging in there with Murphy,” referring to Eddie Murphy, emphasizing Piscopo's ability to match Murphy's energy and timing.

Amy Heckerling’s Directorial Choices

Hosts commend Amy Heckerling's direction, particularly her strategic decision to avoid pigeonholing herself after the success of "Fast Times at Ridgemont High." At [19:20], Gondelman observes, “It feels like a deliberate effort on Heckerling's part to be like, I am going to immediately refuse pigeonholing." This choice led her to venture into the gangster comedy genre with "Johnny Dangerously," showcasing her versatility as a director.

Michael Keaton’s Performance and Career Trajectory

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Michael Keaton's role as Johnny Kelly. Gondelman remarks at [10:03], “He is what you get when you put the character to the test,” praising Keaton's ability to embody the character's eccentricities. Griffin Newman shares personal anecdotes about Keaton's influence, noting at [44:47], “He has so much energy that there's never anything in him, to me, that feels like he's pushing or reaching.”

Film Analysis: Humor and Parody Elements

The trio analyzes the film's comedic structure, noting its dense layering of jokes and homage to classic gangster films. At [21:12], Sims states, “It is a movie that is just devoting all of its energy just to trying to be funny at all times,” appreciating the film's relentless humor. They discuss specific scenes, such as the animated testicle educational film spoof at [87:27], which Gondelman finds “the absolute ceiling of what [Piscopo] can do,” enhancing the movie's parody elements.

Box Office Performance and Critical Reception

Despite its comedic strengths, "Johnny Dangerously" faced mixed reviews and modest box office returns. At [136:11], they mention, “It made $3 million at the domestic box office in its opening weekend,” discussing how the film struggled to compete with more dominant releases like "Beverly Hills Cop." Gondelman concludes that the film’s unique humor was both its strength and its hindrance, making it a cult favorite rather than a mainstream hit.

Comparisons with Other Parody Films

Drawing parallels with other genre parodies, the hosts compare "Johnny Dangerously" to Mel Brooks' works and Zucker-Abrahams-Zucker (ZAZ) comedies. At [26:09], Sims notes, “It's not a pastiche of big set pieces kind of loosely strung together,” distinguishing Heckerling's approach from others who might rely heavily on specific film parodies.

Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, Josh Gondelman reflects on the enduring appeal of "Johnny Dangerously," stating at [25:43], “This is a movie that is just, like, devoting all of its energy just to trying to be funny at all times and throwing so much at the wall.” Griffin Newman concurs, highlighting the film's "comedic invention" and its status as a hidden gem within the 1980s comedy landscape.

Notable Quotes

• Josh Gondelman [01:00]: "This is the one time where I'm like, I get why people were buying this."
• Griffin Newman [02:13]: "Piscopo was the best at hanging in there with Murphy."
• Josh Gondelman [19:20]: “It feels like a deliberate effort on Heckerling's part to be like, I am going to immediately refuse pigeonholing.”
• David Sims [21:12]: “It is a movie that is just devoting all of its energy just to trying to be funny at all times.”
• Josh Gondelman [25:43]: “This is a movie that is just, like, devoting all of its energy just to trying to be funny at all times and throwing so much at the wall.”

Conclusion

This episode of Blank Check with Griffin & David offers a comprehensive and humorous exploration of "Johnny Dangerously," celebrating its comedic value and dissecting its place in 1980s American cinema. With insightful commentary and memorable quotes, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for Amy Heckerling’s directorial prowess and the film’s enduring charm.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[David Sims]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[Josh Gondelman]

Don't know what to say or to expect.

[David Sims]

All you need to know is that the name of the shadow is Black Jack.

[Josh Gondelman]

I would like to direct this to the distinguished members of the panel. You lousy cork suckers. You have violated my Fargo rights. This summoner batching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of Fargon portcasters like yourselves.

[Griffin Newman]

Pork carsters.

[Josh Gondelman]

I. I'm a little proud of pork carsters.

[Griffin Newman]

There you go.

[Josh Gondelman]

And treating podcasters like a curse word. Great, Dimitri, thank you. I mean, the other option, obviously, to do here was. My mother tried to podcast me once. Once. Joe Pescopo is astonishingly good in this.

[Griffin Newman]

Film we're gonna talk about.

[Josh Gondelman]

You're gonna bounce on that?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna bounce on that a little bit. But he's good.

[Josh Gondelman]

It is the one time where I'm like, I get it. This is the only Joe Piscopo thing where I'm like, I get why people were buying this.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Joe Biscobo thinks the other ones that you've. Have you seen wise guys?

[Josh Gondelman]

I've seen. I have not seen wise guys. I've seen Dead Heat.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the one with Treat Williams.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. It's a zombie buddy cop.

[Griffin Newman]

I do like a treat.

[Josh Gondelman]

You look at the poster.

[Griffin Newman]

I love to go get a treat. I'm not joking.

[Josh Gondelman]

You're a treat, boy.

[Griffin Newman]

I like a treat.

[Josh Gondelman]

I look at the poster for Dead Heat and I.

[Griffin Newman]

Looks pretty good. There's like lightning and shit.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Here, I'll show you the poster, Josh.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's really good at putting you to sleep. That was my experience. I had a lovely nap while watching Dead Heat.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, the poster looks good, but Piscopo doesn't quite fit on it. I will say. And then the tagline is, you can't keep a good cop dead. Which is an interesting tagline, you know, to think about, I guess. But no, you can't change two things.

[David Sims]

Like that, because at that point, you might as well.

[Josh Gondelman]

It would be like, that's a good take.

[David Sims]

You can't die a good dead cop, or whatever. At that point, it's like, you. You. How much can you change before it's. It's like a ship of Theseus idiom.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, I like that. Thank you. Bringing up the ship of Thesis as well. I mean, because apart from that, like. Yeah. What?

[Josh Gondelman]

No, you're right. Look.

[Griffin Newman]

How much Pisco have you bounced off the big thing?

[Josh Gondelman]

Is his four seasons of snl.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Which I would.

[Griffin Newman]

Which aired before you were born, just FYI. But nonetheless, I would watch.

[Josh Gondelman]

First of all, this was the golden era of Comedy Central, having SNL reruns, like, five times a day. Yeah. And also all the compilations, like DVDs and VHS's that I would watch. When I discovered SNL, I was like, I need to watch every minute of this that is available. And because Piscopo was so often next to Eddie Murphy, the biggest star that show ever created. I've watched so much Piscopo, snl, and at all ages, I've been like, I don't get it. And I feel like he became a very easy, retroactive punchline. But it was always framed as. But in 82, we thought he was going to be a big star.

[Griffin Newman]

I first knew of him because the Simpsons uses him as a punchline. Right. Like, there's the many Simpsons flashback episodes. There's, like, Lisa's first word. There's the one where Homer. You know, where they're flashing back to.

[Josh Gondelman]

There's the one where Homer is part of nirvana.

[Griffin Newman]

That one might come.

[Josh Gondelman]

That 90s episode, I think it might be called. Do you know this thing that the Simpsons has started doing?

[David Sims]

I don't.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, the characters don't age. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a floating timeline, and the show.

[Josh Gondelman]

Has run for 57,000, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

So when they started, they'd be like, here's a flashback to Homer and Margin High School. This would be in the seventies.

[David Sims]

Sure. Of course.

[Josh Gondelman]

And now no one's age. But the show still takes place.

[Griffin Newman]

Right now the Simpsons are millennials.

[David Sims]

So they.

[Griffin Newman]

Because they've just floated over to that.

[Josh Gondelman]

They will truly do an episode that's like, oh, that reminds me of your mother and I having problems right before you were born, Bart. And then the episode is set in 2005.

[David Sims]

So they have kind of a Kurt Vonnegut concept of time where they've always existed and will always exist.

[Josh Gondelman]

So there was an episode that happened like 10 years ago now, probably, that was like Marge trying to get Homer to settle down. And he's being drawn in by the grunge scene of Seattle where it's. You're like, the show is already on the air at that point.

[David Sims]

He was at Lollapalooza with this pumpkins getting a. As a grown man.

[Griffin Newman]

He sure did. Homer Simpson smiling politely. It's an incredible joke.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sorry, Piscopo punchline.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's like in Lisa's first Word. It's. Marge is always like, let me take you back to, you know, when you were one year old. And, like, and then she's like a young Joe Piscopo taught us how to laugh. And then in the Barbershop Quartet episode, she again is flashing back, and she's like a mature Joe Piscopo, like, started to move on to Hollywood. Right? Like, like. So she's just, like, charting Joe Piscopo's career. And so I didn't even know who that was, but I just knew him as a Simpsons.

[Josh Gondelman]

And look, a funny name to say.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a funny name to say. And then you learn, like, oh, well, he was on the SNL season where it was like, Eddie Murphy, A1. Joe Piscopo was like, the distant number.

[David Sims]

Two, four years SNL zone. Judge Reinhold.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just saying. 80 to 85.

[Griffin Newman]

SNL's own Judge Reinhold, you say, took a real swing.

[David Sims]

Just thinking of Beverly Hills.

[Griffin Newman]

I love Judge Reinhold.

[Josh Gondelman]

Our most recent episode a week ago was Fast Times.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Where we were talking about probably Judge Reinhold's best performance, but also an interesting guy where you're just like, this guy was just in hit after hit, but the hit was never pinned on him. He kept being number two through five. Right. In, like, giant, culturally impactful films.

[David Sims]

What a dream career that is.

[Josh Gondelman]

See, I feel the same way. I feel like you and I are aligned in this, where it's just like, it would just be nice to be along for the ride, to be doing good work across. Across from great people. Absolutely. That the public cares about. I don't care about being, like, the center of the show, but it does start to make people go, like, wait, is Judge Reinhold our biggest movie star? Because he's the only through line.

[David Sims]

Like, the common denominator in every huge movie is Judge Reinhold.

[Josh Gondelman]

Now, I think Reinhold in his golden run was clearly adding something. Every time I think Piscopo. My take on Piscopo has always been like, well, the show was really just buoyed by Murphy and Piscopo. And I'm like, no, the show was buoyed by Murphy, Eddie Murphy, and Piscopo was the second best. I'll even. I'll reframe this. Piscopo was the best at hanging in there with Murphy. He was the only guy who could almost keep pace with Murphy and be the, like, sounding board off of him. Right. Everyone else was, like, struggling, and so I've just never gotten it. And that's only increased by, like, how weirdly he's turned out as like, the most, like, roided up Trump supporter in the world.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? That's the other thing. He got into bodybuilding. It's not. Yeah. What a.

[Josh Gondelman]

He's like, so jacked and so political in a way I don't like.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't like it.

[Josh Gondelman]

And I watched this movie and I'm strong. I agree, I agree. He was kind of the original Kumail in a way. Well.

[Griffin Newman]

Or Carrot Top, though, also had that. Right. Carrot Top got roided out.

[David Sims]

I didn't mean that as a slate against Kumail thinking more Rogan.

[Josh Gondelman]

But it is funny that it's like, for a while, that was like a slam against those guys of like. And do you know that, like, Carrot Top and Piscopo are ripped? Isn't that weird? That's not what we want out of comedians. And now it feels like almost every comedian is ripped.

[David Sims]

Every comedian should comment on nb, on mma and they should be able to fight in a pinch.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. And should livestream cold plunges.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's like, okay, so Piscopo's big character on snl, of course, was Frank Sinatra. Apart from that, he had a character called Paulie Herman. Now it seems like he had to really dig deep for this one because Paulie Herman's kind of a stereotypical Jersey guy who made fun of New Jersey and was an annoying character. And his big catchphrase was, I'm just gonna take a breath for this. I'm from Jersey.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay, interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

So you're just kind of like, there was no TV back then. You know what I mean? So people are just like, I gotta watch something. Eddie Murphy will have a funny sketch. He's gonna do Buckwheat.

[Josh Gondelman]

And also didn't have Rick Baker. They didn't have Nutty professor technology. Eddie Murphy could only play one person. Niche sketch.

[David Sims]

And sometimes it was just that it was an issue.

[Josh Gondelman]

It was an issue for the show.

[Griffin Newman]

Where I'm like, oh, what's his second famous. They're like, Paulie Herman. I'm like, who's that? It's like, guy.

[David Sims]

He's probably at this point, the second best sinatra, right? On SNL.

[Griffin Newman]

100%. We already talked about this. Hartman's Sinatra is way better.

[Josh Gondelman]

So much better. But I'm like, is he even number two? I mean, he's probably literally anyone else.

[Griffin Newman]

Pulled out a good Sinatra at some point.

[David Sims]

Kill him. Blowing him out of the water.

[Josh Gondelman]

But I'm also like, is Alec Baldwin's Tony Bennett a better Sinatra than Pisco? Sinatra, like, Possibly.

[Griffin Newman]

So Piscopo did him 12 times. Hartman did him 10 times. Those appear to be the only two, according to the Saturday I Love Wiki, which I do not know how comprehensive it is. The only two attempts at a Sinatra.

[Josh Gondelman]

You're also forgetting his. His other major recording recurring character.

[Griffin Newman]

What's that?

[Josh Gondelman]

The winers. Him and Gail Matthias were Wendy and I want to say Richard Weiner and.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, Gail Matthias is one of those things where I'm like, yes, I've seen that name in, like, the tablets. Like, you know what I. Where I'm like, you could tell me that that was a person on snl.

[Josh Gondelman]

It would literally be like, they walk into a restaurant, we have a reservation. What's the name? Whiner.

[Griffin Newman]

There wasn't a lot of tv.

[Josh Gondelman]

There was not.

[Griffin Newman]

There just wasn't much. Even the first five seasons, which is good.

[Josh Gondelman]

I've never seen all the Legends. I've never seen Wise Guys, directed by Brian De Palma, Joe Piscopo and Danny DeVito above. The title feels like a classic. If this were good, I would have seen it by now.

[David Sims]

Movie for sure.

[Josh Gondelman]

You know what I'm talking? Like, sometimes movies, you're like, the fact that I haven' Seen it means that there's no way it's good. But I. I watch this and I laugh at basically everything Piscopo does.

[David Sims]

And he's dangerously.

[Josh Gondelman]

I feel like he's in the pocket. This is a perfect role. He's never. It's also the right amount of him, right pitch.

[David Sims]

But you said he's astonishingly good. And I would like to ask about the framing. Does that mean you are astonished that he's good at this movie?

[Griffin Newman]

Josh is giving you a good out.

[Josh Gondelman]

No, no, no. But that is true. Because every other time, I'm just like, there is a void of comedy here, and I feel like I'm losing my mind that anyone even briefly fell for this. And I watched this and I'm like, I get why people thought he was maybe going to translate. Now that having been said, this feels like the absolute ceiling of what he can do.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm David.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's a hard, poor, cursed, good job.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it's okay.

[Josh Gondelman]

About Joe Pescopo. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce. Once, Amy Heckerling unfortunately had a couple bounces.

[Griffin Newman]

She had.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is her first one. Though.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Although it didn't cost that much money, so maybe she kind of got away with it. But certainly a bounce.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think it was seen as a bounce. And she had to sort of go to, like, a preset sequel next to recover from this, which is its own story that we'll talk about next week. This is a miniseries on the films of Amy Heckerling. It is called Pod Times at Ridgemont. Cast.

[David Sims]

Oh, that was. That's what I thought it would be.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think it had to be. And today we're talking Johnny Dangerously, her second film.

[Griffin Newman]

Her second film. Not a movie she wrote. Neither was Fast Times, a 1984American crime comedy starring Michael Keaton and Joe Fiscofo.

[Josh Gondelman]

Danny DeVito, Mario Stapleton, Peter Boyle.

[Griffin Newman]

Hemmer. Yep. Griffin Dunn.

[Josh Gondelman]

Pretty excellent cast.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's a good cast.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Griffin Dunn. Dom DeLuise.

[David Sims]

Briefly.

[Griffin Newman]

Very briefly.

[Josh Gondelman]

Although he gets good billing.

[Griffin Newman]

Dick Buckus. I'm.

[Josh Gondelman]

You know, you got your Ray Walston and Vincent Scavelli.

[Griffin Newman]

Dick Buckus.

[Josh Gondelman]

Dick Buckus.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Is that not a name you've heard before?

[Ben Hosley]

I don't think so. What is chuckled at?

[Griffin Newman]

He's a famous football player.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He played for Dub Airs. The famous. You know, the. The Chicago bears of the 80s who were very. No, he was a. Maybe earlier.

[Ben Hosley]

Anyway, with a name like that, you have to grow up to be a football player.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I think he's also like a cube. You know, like he was one of those guys who's a cube. Oh, sure. So it's like, right. He needs to be a football player because he's a cube.

[Josh Gondelman]

There are some other names that I didn't even clock until the end credits.

[David Sims]

The other names of people that you recognize, or are they just funny names?

[Josh Gondelman]

Both. But at the end when they're trying to escape in the car and the sergeant keeps updating like they're now dressed like nuns in a white convertible or whatever that is. Alan Hale, the skipper from Gilligan's Island.

[Griffin Newman]

Hale Jr.

[Josh Gondelman]

There's, like, a lot of weird people like that in it. I don't know if you guys caught this. When Johnny is walking down the prison the first time, and it's. What's his name from sctv? Is the man who's being walked to death row.

[Griffin Newman]

Joe Flaherty.

[Josh Gondelman]

Joe Flaherty. Yeah. Right. He goes like, guys, we're gonna get this over with. Or not.

[Griffin Newman]

Funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

The priest walking next to him delivering the last rites. Did you catch who this is?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Josh Gondelman]

Jack Nance. Eraserhead himself.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting. Sure.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like this movie is so loaded full of weird people that I've seen it twice in the last six months, and they're people I missed. Our guest today returning to the show for. For embarrassingly, only the second time.

[David Sims]

Very kind of you say.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, he's too nice to ever get upset about it because he's the nicest man in comedy. Josh Gondolman.

[David Sims]

Thank you so much for having me, Josh.

[Josh Gondelman]

Your newest special.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Is titled.

[David Sims]

It is titled Positive Reinforcement.

[Josh Gondelman]

Just a really good snapshot of how insanely we run the show. Like six months ago, you were like, hey, I have a special coming out in January. I'd love to come back on the show. And I was like, the soonest we can get you on is May.

[David Sims]

And then. Hold on, let me one up you. The weirdest thing about comedy special distribution is it is still not out.

[Josh Gondelman]

Really?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay, so this timed out.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

This timed out. Great.

[Josh Gondelman]

I mean, I'm delayed out.

[David Sims]

You know, who can say?

[Griffin Newman]

Who can say what place will happen? Oh, we have question.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I think I will find out within the week.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Which is. Doesn't help us here, but is will be good for my peace of mind.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. So at the time we're recording this, you want. No.

[David Sims]

Don't know.

[Josh Gondelman]

By the time this episode comes out, we probably do know. So maybe there's a pickup here and.

[Ben Hosley]

At least we'll have a link in the episode description.

[David Sims]

Very kind.

[Josh Gondelman]

Absolutely. Well, you're. You're the kindest. And I feel like we talked about this the last time you were on, but you. You got screwed over in a game. I shouldn't say screwed over. You did Back to the Future 3.

[David Sims]

I did that.

[Josh Gondelman]

An American classic and a great episode we had.

[David Sims]

I had a great time checking that.

[Josh Gondelman]

We bumped you around the schedule, like four times because other things kept coming up. You were so amenable. And then this time, I threw to you like heckerling. First pick, you went, johnny Dangerously. And we just kept being like, no matter what, we can't move Goggle man.

[David Sims]

This has been locked in for.

[Josh Gondelman]

We can't do this to him ever again.

[David Sims]

This has been locked in for months. You showed me the grid.

[Josh Gondelman]

I did.

[David Sims]

We were at a bar together. And you went, look at this.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I. And this is like, oh, great. September.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes. Truly. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And it was a great.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And we called it. We called the shot Dangerously, and here we are.

[Josh Gondelman]

Is this a movie you grew up watching?

[David Sims]

I remember seeing little snippets of it on TV all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

It was like a TV Right. Like a cable classic.

[David Sims]

The. The. What's his name? Maroney.

[Griffin Newman]

The.

[David Sims]

The character that you did at the top, that is Fargan Ice Holes is like the. The dominant memory of this movie for me. And I was like, I gotta see the whole thing and see, like, what the rest of it is about.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. And what you quickly discovered, or not quickly discovered, recently discovered, is this movie is almost impossible to watch legally.

[David Sims]

It is so difficult to find.

[Griffin Newman]

Although I think a couple years ago it seemed it was streaming. Because if you Google, is it streaming? You see people a while back being like, yeah, it's on.

[David Sims]

They said it's not Max.

[Josh Gondelman]

It has had windows of streaming. It is not rentable for money. It is not streaming anywhere. It has not been in print, physical media since a DVD in the 90s.

[Griffin Newman]

I bought a disc. Was this disc, like, made for me or something?

[Josh Gondelman]

You get this?

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, it was a dvd, I think.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I can't even remember. I mean, it looks pretty good.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is a high grade Bootle Blu Ray. I got labeled as the Fargan Ice Holes edition. I'm sorry, you Fargon Ice Holes edition.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me see where I got. What did I. Maybe I got a vintage dvd.

[Josh Gondelman]

You must have gotten a vintage dvd.

[David Sims]

I had a wandering Greek bard just recount the movie to me. That's what I had to do.

[Griffin Newman]

I ordered it on January 27th. Yeah, it looks like it's a DVD. Yeah, I think it's just right. It's a vintage DVD. I probably. I think I got it for like, you know, 30 bucks or something. Like, I had to, you know, pay for a used coffee, but it was fine.

[Josh Gondelman]

It had also been a movie that I would, like, see snippets of on tv. Had probably watched all of Cloverfield monster style, but not from beginning to end. And then whatever it was. Last fall, I went on Big Picture to do a Michael Keaton Mount Rushmore episode. And I was like, I got to fill in all my gaps. I was only able to see this through being let onto a plex server.

[David Sims]

You're going to say on a plane you had to fly across.

[Josh Gondelman]

I wouldn't be surprised if, like, you. You go to like, just watch.com and it's like, book Delta.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

International.

[David Sims]

You have to fly international.

[Josh Gondelman]

It'd be southwest.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a Fox movie. I don't understand. Why is it not so weird?

[Josh Gondelman]

I was. Ben and I were talking to people who worked at a streaming service recently at a party because we've been like, knowing this miniseries was coming. We've had like emails of like, should we like nudge these places and like, see if we can get a rep screening going? Like, I don't want this to be an episode where no one has seen. Seen the movie. And it just feels bizarre because it's like a Fox movie from a major director starring a major still relevant star. And it's like a broad comedy and it's so hard to watch. And we've been like trying to see if anyone can just like have this movie streaming in the month of May or April and who knows if it's gonna work.

[David Sims]

And it's also not like, notably bad. Like it wasn't a hit, but you don't watch it and go like, people shouldn't ever see that.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's not that. But it's not quite. Yeah, I don't, I don't know.

[David Sims]

It's not like a cult classic, right?

[Griffin Newman]

It's.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's never totally been reclaimed at that level, but it almost feels like it should be. Like it's kind of ready to be. I feel like it had a real like comedy central like TBS rotation era in the 90s. And then I just feel like has been Memory hold since then. Is a fascinating second movie.

[David Sims]

Fascinating. Especially following Fast Times, which is a movie that. Not to. I know you talked about this last week, but a movie that I remember seeing as like a teenager thinking it was going to be more of like a raucous laugh riot.

[Josh Gondelman]

A lot of what we talked about.

[David Sims]

Oh, it's. It's like sincere. Very. And then this is the silliest movie that's ever existed.

[Griffin Newman]

Very silly. Is a reaction to Fast Times. That's good point.

[Josh Gondelman]

Point.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? This is just like, you know, no stakes, silliness, costume party.

[Josh Gondelman]

It feels like a deliberate effort on Heckerling's part to be like, I am going to immediately refuse pigeonholing. Like, you know, she talks about in the dossier that like she was just offered a bunch more teen comedies and like female led teen comedies and like coming of age movies and sex comedies and whatever. And it just feels like a very, very strategic choice to be like, whether this works or not. I need to not make the same movie two times in a row. And we also just know that like she is a big movie dork.

[Griffin Newman]

We'll talk about that. Of course. Like, yes, her, her influences are clear here.

[Josh Gondelman]

I also think this is the exact kind of movie that like women were not getting offered to direct.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, women weren't getting offered any movies really.

[Josh Gondelman]

They weren't getting offered a Lot. But I think if you look at the female directors working within the studio system in the 80s, like, F is much more the type of thing that would sometimes go to a female director. And this is really, I think, on paper, like a kind of boys club comedy where you're like, this is what Mel Brooks does. This is what the Zucker brothers do. Right. There are only a couple people who can do this kind of thing, and they all basically come from, like, sketch comedy or vaudeville, have their background on the stage. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

It felt. It has, like an Airplane quality to it. The zaniness.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. All right, well, so I think I like this movie less than you two, unfortunately. Although I don't dislike it. But I found this.

[Josh Gondelman]

This.

[Griffin Newman]

My take was I found this movie fun, but not that funny. Does that make sense? I had, like, a good time watching it. I. It was pleasant and high energy, but rarely did my mouth open to emit a laugh. You know what I mean? I was like, I'm not really laughing. The jokes aren't really, like, making me laugh. And there are a lot of jokes. Whereas Airplane. I'm. I'm doing this right now because you invoked Airplane. That makes me laugh. Like, you know.

[David Sims]

Yeah, Airplane's very funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

See this, the funniest, this to me is like the only movie like this, not directed by a Zucker, Abrahams, or Brooks, that I would say makes me laugh. It is the one where I'm like, it's not at the level of those dudes top work, but I'm like, it is below. It is above their worst work. And it is basically above, I think, everyone else who has tried to make a movie like this.

[David Sims]

And I. I think it is a kind of movie that I had such an affection for growing up until it became like. Like this kind of movie that's like a broad genre parody became like kind of a pastiche of sketches, like in the early aughts, and then they just stopped making them entirely and stopped making film comedies.

[Josh Gondelman]

Look, this is a lot of what this episode's going to be about, right?

[David Sims]

And I'm. This is a soapbox that I'll stand atop anytime.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes, you're also. Look, you are, Josh, you are a great comedian, and you have a very specific voice as. As a performer, as a writer. And it is because of that that I'm always kind of surprised how good and versatile you are as just a straight joke writer.

[David Sims]

Thank you. Like, what a lovely compliment.

[Josh Gondelman]

So much good work writing in other people's voices. Sometimes credit oftentimes not where I'm just kind of impressed that you have, like captured their voice that well, for voices that can be difficult and specific. But also because I'm like, you are such a good example of like, you tell jokes that only you could tell that fit into your mouth and your rhythm. But you do have such a clear, like, appreciation of just the art of joke writing.

[David Sims]

I love jokes, which this movie is like. I mean, it was. I agree, David. The highs aren't as like high as something like an airplane. I had a few out loud laughs watching on my computer with headphones.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. It's my counterargument as well, which is I laugh watching this. Yeah, I laugh out loud.

[David Sims]

I did laugh out loud.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I think now like, there's so much comedy that starts with like, you know, after the death of his entire family, this ex Marine deals with trauma. And you're like, that's the comedy. Like, you should see the dramas.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right? Well, so the comedies are like, these two people are going to a bed and breakfast, but one of them is secretly an ex Marine.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got a gun to use. He could disassemble it blindfolded.

[David Sims]

Right. You talked about it. Was it with Jen D'Angelo?

[Josh Gondelman]

I think that was such a.

[Griffin Newman]

That everyone has to have a gun in a.

[David Sims]

Such an insightful conversation where it's like everything is either a lighthearted superhero movie, nothing wrong with those existing or full on action comedy where this. Obviously there are guns in this movie, but it's not quite the same thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Although it's a good point that there are actually lots of guns this movie, but the violence is so silly.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's Looney Tunes. But There are like 10 streaming comedies starring a list stars that have come out in the last five years that. Where the premise is either this person is in boring suburban life, but secretly they used to be a hitman slash spy, slash whatever. Or this normal guy gets thrown into the high octane world of hitman slash spy. And I'm like, Wahlberg's done three of.

[David Sims]

Yes. And they're all. It's all like movies that would be pitched during Michael Scott doing improv.

[Griffin Newman]

Just like I have a gun.

[Josh Gondelman]

And they all either like star, not comedy stars or people where like comedy is a thing they do, but like mostly star like action stars doing comedies with guns where they have to shoot people in serious sequences.

[David Sims]

And I love a stupid, silly movie. I loved the Gutter last year.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, I need to see the Gutter.

[David Sims]

It's so silly.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And I like, I. So I like my Body craves movies like this. Like minerals, like vitamins.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is, like, such a pure comedy. Like, whether or not it works for you, this is a movie that is just, like, devoting all of its energy just to trying to be funny at all times and throwing so much at the wall. And I feel like it is the kind of obvious knock against, like, the Zucker Brooks wannabes is like, if you're doing a joke every 15 seconds and your ratio, like, hit to miss ratio isn't good. It gets exhausting fast. And this is one where it just keeps me. I. I think it has peaks and valleys. I feel like the first 20 minutes I'm watching, and I'm like, this is the greatest comedy of all time. And then it falls down, and then it'll, like, come back up and whatever. But it holds me the whole time.

[David Sims]

And I think the story works enough.

[Josh Gondelman]

I agree with you.

[David Sims]

It is not a pastiche of big set pieces kind of loosely strung together. It's not, like, a super breathtakingly original story. The characters don't have a ton of depth, but they do enough work with the story that you aren't like, wait a minute. What am I watching? Who's doing what?

[Josh Gondelman]

I agree it also, for me, is not bogging itself down with too much plotting, where it's like, hey, I don't care about the story that much.

[David Sims]

We're the mob. We do crime.

[Griffin Newman]

They're not heavy on the right on what's happening. It's just he's got his brother after him. He's got Joe Fiscopo biting at his heels. That's basically it.

[Josh Gondelman]

I also love. And this is like, the heckerling of it to me is it's just like this is a parody movie that it's feels like it's wearing its love for movies on its sleeve. Like, it is so in love with, like, identifying certain tropes of things, but also jokes you can make about, like, the audience's understanding of film language. Just like the early. It's basically the first joke in the movie where you have the cross dissolve from the painting to the city street with the chiron that says New York City of the Year, and then it crashes into it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[Josh Gondelman]

And you're just like, that's. That, like, requires, like, forethought.

[David Sims]

I truly watched that. I saw the car crash into 1935, and I was like, let's go.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is what all movies should do. This. The Brutalists should have done this.

[David Sims]

Would have made a little less brutal.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The Brutalists could have taken a couple notes from Johnny Dangerously. What if Piscopo was in there?

[Josh Gondelman]

Piscopo Salta could have been good, you know, really good. In the Brutalist, who. I forgot to mention, I feel like no one mentioned all Brutalist season.

[Griffin Newman]

Adrian Brody.

[Josh Gondelman]

Jonathan Hyde.

[Griffin Newman]

It would just be so funny if you said Adrian, bro.

[Josh Gondelman]

No one gave this guy his flowers.

[Griffin Newman]

Jonathan Hyde is good. Yes. I love Jonathan Hyde.

[Josh Gondelman]

I do, too. And a guy who had, like, a fucking 90s heater run.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, he fucking was the one who told the Titanic to go faster. He blew that.

[Josh Gondelman]

He was.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's the one in the Mummy who's like, what have we done?

[Josh Gondelman]

He's the dad and the hunter in Jumanji. Yep. He's Cadbury and Richie Rich.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the villain in Richie Rich.

[Josh Gondelman]

No, he's not the villain. He's the greatest ally.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[Josh Gondelman]

Larroquette is the villain.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that's right. Larro Cat.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Josh Gondelman]

Cadbury is his closest friend.

[Griffin Newman]

Larro Cat is a villain.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know what they were thinking.

[David Sims]

Hitler tried to eradicate the Jews once.

[Josh Gondelman]

Just once.

[Griffin Newman]

It would be funny if in the Brutalist, one of his patrons that he, like, he's like, I need. I. You know, I want to make a building or whatever is Richie Rich. Which he was just like, I need you to make a Mount Rushmore of my family, or whatever it is Richie Rich has. You need to design a McDonald's for me.

[Josh Gondelman]

I want a mountain of A scent sign or some.

[Griffin Newman]

It was always weird that, right? The poster had the cent sign for the sea because he's Richie Rich. And I'm like, yeah, but that sense. That's not what rich people have Dollars.

[Josh Gondelman]

That goes back to the comics where I'm like, when Richie Witch was created, was it, like, impressive that he had 20 pennies?

[Griffin Newman]

I think it was. You know, it was. It was a bigger deal.

[David Sims]

He's all the candy he wants, right?

[Griffin Newman]

He's so rich that his middle name in the comic book is a dollar sign.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

So that's how they go.

[Josh Gondelman]

Richie Dollar Sign Rich.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Richie Rich.

[David Sims]

Kind of like, too, too short. I mean, I guess that's the whole name short. But.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but I hear what you're saying. It's important.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's interesting, and we're. We're really thinking on it briefly.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, Richie Rich. It's funny that they were like, all right, Macaulay needs a vehicle, right? He's going to get paid through the nose. His. His evil parents are Going to be part of the. Right, we talked about that.

[David Sims]

I like that. There is so little meat on the bones of Johnny Dangerously that we're Minute.

[Griffin Newman]

Richie Rich.

[Josh Gondelman]

No, we're going to talk about that. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Richie Rich. All the money's going to McAu. Fine. All right. And you know, then we, you know, he's. There are some kids in the movie, right? He's got. He's got friends.

[Josh Gondelman]

You got Larette, you got Edward Herman.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but that's what I'm saying. Right? And then they're like, right. No, now just bring us heavy hitter character guys in.

[Josh Gondelman]

Everyone is so good.

[Griffin Newman]

Larman, Jonathan Hyde, Eral. The dad from Carissa is his dad. The dad from Clarissa is. Whose dad is Richie Rich's dad?

[Josh Gondelman]

No, Edward Herman's Richie Rich's dad. I watched this.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? You're right. You know what? You're right.

[Josh Gondelman]

I watched this movie two weeks ago.

[David Sims]

Is I haven't seen.

[Josh Gondelman]

People kept making jokes about Elon's son being Richie Rich. And I was like, I wonder how that ages.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just that they have the same glasses. I think I have not seen Richie Rich since 1994. Yeah, I thought in theaters, I think December 21st. It sounds like it came out in 1994.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sounds right. I have not watched Richie Rich since. Checks notes, 20, 25.

[Griffin Newman]

And why? Why?

[Josh Gondelman]

Because it kept getting invoked around Elon's son. And then I was sort of like, that's a funny cultural snapshot of in like when that character was created in the 40s or whatever, the 50s. But once again, in the 90s 50s, that could be the hero of the movie where you're like, this little boy was given everything and he has so much money and we all love.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's like blank check. You know, it's like little kids like me wanted to just see a boy who could buy any toy. Right. I guess. But also the movie is about how he's. He lives in a gilded cage, right? Like, he needs friends and he doesn't have any.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, but the movie. Yes, it is. But then re watching it, the movie is really about, like, look how cool his life.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got a McDonald's in his house.

[Josh Gondelman]

And he's right about everything. He learns no lessons.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

That seems like check. The whole point is like, what if you could figure out a way to get all the money, Whereas Richie Rich is just like, what if everything was.

[David Sims]

Handed to you forever and you would deserve it.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. And there's a point in the movie where his parents go missing Because Larroquette tried to bomb their plane and they're stranded in the ocean and Richie Rich has to take over his parents companies. And he does it really well. There's no conflict.

[Griffin Newman]

But there's a laser, right?

[Josh Gondelman]

There's a big laser that shoots at.

[Griffin Newman]

The, the Mount Rushmore because I remember that there's a big action scene with the Mount Rushmore.

[Josh Gondelman]

Correct. Right. Well, this is what's crazy about it. And we're going to talk about Johnny Dangerously. But my thought was always the same thing of like, Macaulay Culkin's the biggest star in America. Our number one box office draw is an 11 year old blonde boy. What vehicles do we design for him? And someone's like ripping through the library and they're like, richie Rich. Richie Rich kind of looks like Macaulay Culkin. And then it gets like fast tracked, right? Wrong. Warner Brothers had already spent years and millions in development trying to make Richie Rich with Fred Savage.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

[Josh Gondelman]

Joel Silver at his peak, like riding high off a fucking Lethal Weapon and shit, was like, I want to make Richie Rich. And then when Home Alone blows up, they were like, God damn it. We gotta kick Savage off this project.

[David Sims]

Asap and we gotta do some rewrites on the Shane Black Richie Rich.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

It's a little rough around the edge.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Black did way too many bumps while he was writing this script. This script is manic. No. Yeah, because anyway, look, we're moving on from Richard. We're moving over to Johnny Dangerously. And Josh is here, Ben's here. Ben's kind of with me. It seems like on the, like I had fun, but I wasn't that fun.

[Josh Gondelman]

I thought you were going to love this. Your love of crime wave made me think like, this is better.

[Griffin Newman]

Crime wave is unhinged.

[Josh Gondelman]

Crime wave is on.

[Griffin Newman]

That's like an odd object. Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

And I think because I was aware of this growing up in New Jersey and having friends who are a fan of this movie and it feeling such like a Jersey knucklehead kind of thing.

[Josh Gondelman]

You also grew up in, in Piscopo County.

[Ben Hosley]

I did. Truly?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Piscopo country. Truly. That I think I just immediately rejected it.

[David Sims]

The William Faulkner of New Jersey sets all his novels in Pisco Cavity.

[Josh Gondelman]

So we, we covered Crime Wave on the show. Josh Gray Joke. Five comedy points.

[Griffin Newman]

Extremely good. Five Faulkner points. Five Lights in August.

[Josh Gondelman]

We covered Sam Raimi on the show. Years ago.

[Griffin Newman]

Five Sounds and Furies. What? Sam, When James Franco made like eight William Faulkner movies no one's ever seen.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes. Instant insane. Insane. We should do that on Patreon. Nope.

[David Sims]

As I lay potting Yaka Podcastma County.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just the hubris. Anyway, carry on.

[Josh Gondelman]

No, I just remember, like, in high school reading Faulkner books and being like, is there a movie of this I can watch?

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. And people being like, I don't know.

[Josh Gondelman]

He's kind of unadaptable, as you can tell.

[Griffin Newman]

This is. This seems almost impossible.

[Josh Gondelman]

People haven't tried and the ones that have been made don't really work. They're not gonna have it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's fine.

[Josh Gondelman]

Let me knock three out over a weekend.

[Griffin Newman]

What were you going?

[Josh Gondelman]

Years ago, we covered Sam Raimi, his second film, a weird swerve from the first Evil Dead, which is so much more like somber and straight ahead relative to where the Evil Dead movies end up. Is this movie Crime Wave, which is very much twinned with Johnny Dangerously, a movie that is directed by him and written by the Coen brothers.

[David Sims]

I've never seen that. I gotta see it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's all three have functionally disowned and like, just don't include their, like, filmography, their biography, like, any of that. I think took their names off of it.

[David Sims]

The Coen brothers. You said?

[Josh Gondelman]

Coen brothers wrote it.

[David Sims]

Raimi directed, and they all are like.

[Josh Gondelman]

That movie got taken away from us. We. We don't want to be associated with it. And Ben really loved it. And so I was like, Ben's gonna fucking lose his mind for Johnny Dangerously. This is interesting.

[David Sims]

I was telling a friend. Oh, friend. A friend of the podcast. Matty Lubchansky.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, yes.

[David Sims]

And I was like, oh, I'm doing. Going to see the Blank Jack Fellows and we're going to do Johnny Dangerously. And she said, was it a Ben's choice? Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, no, he didn't choose.

[Griffin Newman]

He didn't choose.

[Ben Hosley]

No.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's a Ben's rejection.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Thinking for sure. Johnny Dangerous. I'm cracking open the dossier. And Maddie's book is out soon. Probably when this episode's air.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

So.

[Josh Gondelman]

And thank you to Maddie for her contribution to our art show. Which would have happened already fast times.

[Griffin Newman]

It were John High studio messes with it releases botched, but nonetheless a success.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Despite all these caveats.

[Josh Gondelman]

Was not horribly botched.

[Griffin Newman]

And becomes a huge home video. Successful. Inspires a spin off show that doesn't go anywhere. All that stuff. And I think Universal is also like, fuck, why did we like overthink this teen movie? Teen movies kill. Let's start pumping out teen movies right you know, like I don't even. Like we were being ridiculous.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like Universal becomes John Hughes's main studio, they very smartly just like clamp down on him. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And because Heckerling made Fast Times orig one high. As you say Universal's like, yeah, it's a kid loses his virginity. You interested? Come on. The girl goes to school. I don't know, they wear bikinis, make one of these.

[Josh Gondelman]

They slobin scripting, throwing fastballs with a precision that would blow your mind.

[Griffin Newman]

And she said I didn't want to deal with that. You know, I don't want to spend the rest of my life dealing with bad teachers, the girls getting pregnant, loss of innocence, etc.

[Josh Gondelman]

I don't want to do smart. Like I think she knows if she does it well to twice, she's never going to be able to do anything.

[Griffin Newman]

Get stuck. So Bud Austin is a producer.

[David Sims]

Stone cold.

[Griffin Newman]

Stone cold Bud Austin. Stone Stoned Bud. Cuz Bud.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh sure.

[David Sims]

Oh, that's good. Stone Bud called Austin.

[Griffin Newman]

It's okay.

[Josh Gondelman]

Stone beer cold Budston.

[Griffin Newman]

He watches Blazing Saddles like many an American and laughs, I'm sure his belly full. But is also like, oh, I want to do like a, a golden age Hollywood spoof, but not westerns. How about I did like, what about a gangster spoof making fun of, you know, Roaring twenties and you know, James Cagney movies and all that stuff. Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

And here's the thing that I think Blazing Saddles and Johnny Dangerously specifically have in common. They are not primarily parodying one movie. No, a lot of stupid. Right. But like Airplane is taking from. What's that thing called? Zero Hour.

[Griffin Newman]

Airplane is a weird example where they're, they're taking the plot of a serious movie. Obviously they're parodying a larger genre, but.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes, but like Young Frankenstein is like basically beat for beat Son of Frankenstein in a really fascinating way. Like it's the third one. A lot of these are like riffing on one primarily. Whether it's something like High Anxiety where it's like, okay, it's using Vertigo as the main coat hanger or they're taking something that's like more obscure that people don't know and using that as a structure to do their riff. Blazing Saddle starts as the comedy premise of like what if there was a Black Sheriff? And then 27 different writers work on it cumulatively until it turns into what it is. But it starts with a core of just a story and then grows into a. This is a way to parody a whole genre.

[Griffin Newman]

The parody is Initially going to be called Blazing Tommy Guns. They're literally going with blazing.

[Josh Gondelman]

That would have been terrible.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. He reaches out to Michael Hertzberg, who produced Blazing Saddles and many other Mel Brooks movies, and they start cooking up a screenplay. Lots of people work on it, but Diff'rent Strokes creators Bernie Kukoff and Jeff Harris are involved, and they. At least Jeff Harris is a screenplay credit here, and Bernie has a story credit, so they're involved.

[David Sims]

Have either of you read Mel Brooks's memoir, by the way?

[Josh Gondelman]

No, I have not.

[David Sims]

It's delightful. And every chapter is like, we set out to make that kind of picture nobody had ever made before. It was an ambitious undertaking, and we did it, and it was a great success. And I have lunch with every single one of the people on the crew twice a week.

[Griffin Newman]

You're making the book sound terrible. No, it rules.

[David Sims]

It is. He's, like, one of the few people that I would tolerate that level of, like, of course. We really did it, guys. It's just delightful.

[Josh Gondelman]

I gotta say. And I. I mean this solely as a compliment. Mel Brooks sometimes reads to me as, like, one of the least interior people in history.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. Maybe that's how he's survived this long, by not looking inward and worrying. Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think he's so incredibly funny, and in a way that feels very specific, where he's, like, pulling at things, and then every interview he's done is just like, here's how it came about. I sat down and said, what if I make a movie with a lot of jokes?

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Josh Gondelman]

It gave me money and I succeeded.

[David Sims]

It's so great. And they're like. There's so many anecdotes that are like, we tried to book this guy. He wasn't available. Then we went to the next guy, and I couldn't imagine anyone better. And it's like you just said, you imagine someone better than the first guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right, right, right.

[Josh Gondelman]

There's like. I feel it was maybe his WTF episode where Marin tried to, like, dig into the Nazi stuff with him, and he was just like. So that's like. I feel like you did something that was, like, very important, like, for our generation, which was, like, culturally reckoning with the Holocaust through comedy and, like, processing and defanging it. And I was like, no, I never thought about that.

[Griffin Newman]

Who cares?

[Josh Gondelman]

And he's like, but you do, like, a lot of Nazi humor. And he's like, yeah, I guess it's just a thing to make fun of.

[David Sims]

It's just, there's Jews and there's Space. I love it.

[Josh Gondelman]

David?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes?

[Josh Gondelman]

Can you help me out here?

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. When do you need help?

[Josh Gondelman]

My jaw's on the floor. Oh, I just gotta lift it up. Thank you. I needed the help because my jaw has been dropping at some of these old overpriced wireless plans.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, look, I mean, some of these monthly bills and unexpected overages can really hurt. And getting a summer bod, because, you know, summer's around the corner. Grif is out, getting your savings bod is in. That's a thought I've just had.

[Josh Gondelman]

I feel like David Spade peak SNL when I'm looking at the bills from these wireless planes because I want to say buh. Bye.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah, Bye. Bye.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, sure. Well, his third best character.

[Griffin Newman]

There are premiums wireless plans out there for just 15 bucks a month. All these plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text. All of them are delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. And you can use your own phone. With any Mint Mobile plan, you can bring your own, your phone number, your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced wireless. Get three months of premium wireless service from Mint mobile for just 50, 15 bucks a month.

[Josh Gondelman]

Now, I heard this pitch. I went, this is too good to be true.

[Griffin Newman]

Your jaw fell down again.

[Josh Gondelman]

It fell on the floor. Well, first it was falling on the floor in a negative way because of some of these wireless plans and their prices.

[Griffin Newman]

We've covered that.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. And then I got this one. It was so good. My job on the floor with joy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. And I'm, I'm going, okay, but where's the wire? I go, how I'm gonna be tethered to this thing? I couldn't believe it. I was running hoops through it like a magician going, I'm going to catch the wire. Must be invisible, right? But I'm walking around, I swear to God, I'm walking around with a cellular telephone. This thing is 100% wireless and the bills are jaw droppingly good.

[Griffin Newman]

Fantastic.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's. It is fantastic. I'm saying hello to Mint Mobile. Here's the thing. Sometimes when I've been on rival wireless cellular providers, I'm walking around saying, can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? When I'm using a Mint Mobile phone, I'm walking around saying, you can hear me? It's not a question. I know they can because I can hear them.

[Griffin Newman]

This year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless [e-mail] check. That's mintmobile.com upfront payment of $45 for a three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first three months only. Then full price options are available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Josh Gondelman]

You know, I was going to say the only downside to Mint Mobile phones is that you can't play jump rope with them because there's no wire. Right. But here's the thing. You save so much money on Mint Mobile, you can buy as many jump ropes as you want.

[Griffin Newman]

This screenplay bounces around many studios. Heckerling reads it, knows she won't be the obvious choice, but also knows she knows these movies that are being spoofed better than anybody. She knew all the references. She could go on about the genre. So let me do it. And she specifically loves James Cagney, who is, I would say the most obvious sort of inspiration for.

[David Sims]

Appears like there's a specifically referenced in the movie.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, the big final source showdown.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And she grew up watching him. And she loves James Cagney, who is great, to be clear. You know, she just has. She has profound memories of watching movies like Angels of Dirty Faces in the Roaring twenties. It was sort of talked about it.

[Josh Gondelman]

In our Fast Times episode. But like a lot of this generation of like filmmakers coming up in the first film school generation who were raised by like tv. Yeah, they're watching over again. A lot of the. The guys will talk about it being sci fi movies and westerns and this and that. It feels like heck early from a small age, really kind of locked in on gangster pictures.

[Griffin Newman]

Her big.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Her big memory is that, you know, at the end of these Cagney movies, he dies. Because back in the day, you know, top of the world gangster had to die. That one's White Heat. That one's fucked up. But you know, even normal, he's got.

[Josh Gondelman]

A good relationship with his mom.

[Griffin Newman]

He loves his mommy. Even in Angels and Dirty Faces he goes to the electric chair. And when she was a kid, she freaked out after watching it. And she. Because she was like, he's dead. And her mom had to sit her down and be like, it's a movie. You know, he didn't really die, don't worry.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

But like she had to like sort of like, don't worry. That wasn't like a projection of real.

[David Sims]

Life that you just watched as we all learn about death from James Cagney films.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. And that also feels like a lot in her Brain Train moment. Exactly right.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like literally the idea of like pulling apart the Artifice of the gangster movie. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So the script is floating around. Heckerling is interested, and she is sort of into the idea of satirizing something that a lot of people won't even know or remember. This is pre DVDs, right? Like, lots of people just maybe have never seen these movies. And lots of other writers come aboard, in and out. Neil Israel, who is not credited, but was credited as Amy Heckerling's husband in that she married him.

[David Sims]

He works on it.

[Josh Gondelman]

He gets a credit. He. In the end credits, he gets a call out as, like, special medical consultant.

[Griffin Newman]

Him. And yes, him and Pat Proft are both credited for that. That's a script doctor joke. Get it? Doctor. But Pat Proft came up with your testicles and you. That whole little segment.

[David Sims]

I. I would say that's one of the parts that worked the least.

[Griffin Newman]

She says. She says it didn't fit, but people laughed. So.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's such a weird.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a really weird thing in the middle of the movie.

[David Sims]

And not to call forward too far, but it reminds me of, like, her comfort with. That reminds me of kind of the opening to look who's Talking.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah. Interesting.

[Josh Gondelman]

I mean, sure, sure. Yep, yep.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's her finding maybe a more whatever resonant universal like take. Yes.

[David Sims]

And much more apt for the. The movie. Although still weird. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's a movie about baby.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's a movie about baby.

[Griffin Newman]

Michael Keaton. Michael Keaton. Michael Keaton had appeared in a little film about a Mr. Mom in 1983. That was Fox's biggest comedy, I think biggest hit of the year. Not just comedy, biggest movie of 1983.

[Josh Gondelman]

It was a very big hit.

[Griffin Newman]

So he signs a giant contract with Fox that guaranteed the next four of his five films would be Fox.

[Josh Gondelman]

Interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Which is interesting.

[David Sims]

The classic dentist ratio.

[Griffin Newman]

And they say, hey, you'll have creative input. You can pick your projects. Maybe you even direct a movie in one of those classic deals. Johnny Dangerously, which actually doesn't even count as part of the deal because it, whatever, came together at a different time. He doesn't make another Fox movie.

[Josh Gondelman]

I was about to say, I'm like, looking through.

[Griffin Newman]

It's all bullshit. Like, all these things are bullshit.

[Josh Gondelman]

But I just want to. I want to call out, as a bit of a Keaton historian, he is, like, rocketed to stardom in Night Shift. Right. Gets the kind of like, Jack Black and high fidelity, like a perfect showcase for a guy introduced to movie audiences. Hits the screen immediately and is like, we want more of that guy. Has just been like kicking around like sitcoms and stand up and variety shows. That's basically his first movie appearance of any kind. Then it's like straight to Mr. Mom and then Johnny Dangerously in 1984. So he's had this insane ascension of like 82. Who was that guy? 83. This guy's now the leading man in a big hit. And he played like a little more of a grown up than we thought he could do. Because in Night Shift he's just playing the wacky guy. At this point, he feels like invincible.

[Griffin Newman]

Famously, of course, Bill Simmons. One, maybe greatest pop culture Take a series market corrected by Tom Hanks, which I think is true.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And also get to that later.

[Josh Gondelman]

The next four years of Keaton are really bad. Between Johnny Dangerously and Beetlejuice and Clean and Sober in the same year in 88, like 86, 87, 85. It's like Keaton's fucked it up. And this is the moment where he like kind of loses the heat. Although I vouch for this movie 100%, the next couple of choices he makes are borderline terrible.

[David Sims]

Because this movie, even if it doesn't like. I get it as a movie that, like, anything can bomb. But again, I don't want. You don't watch Michael Keaton and go, this is an embarrassing swing.

[Josh Gondelman]

I don't think so. I think he's so good in it. And I think it's doing the thing that most people could not do. But I also, I also think it's like, not what the audience wants out of him. And I think the audience is just sort of like, what is this movie? Period.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. And Amy Heckerling, I'm sorry again, sorry if I'm cutting in on. I was. I was doing a little reading about this myself and she. She has mentioned that she thought it didn't succeed at the box office in part because of the thing they're trying to do, which is parody movies that people weren't familiar with.

[Griffin Newman]

It's. It's just. It's too nerdy, probably, but we'll get to that.

[Josh Gondelman]

Let's call it. The other thing, though, is like, there is this weird, like, man at a time thing with Keaton. Right? Like, there's something about him being able to play this very heightened old style of acting, but in this kind of modern, postmodern, like, sort of snarky way and whatever. The year after this, his direct follow up to this is supposed to be Purple Rose of Cairo. They shoot three weeks with him in the Jeff Daniels role, and Woody Allen fires him. Him and reshoots the whole movie because he says he's too modern.

[David Sims]

Weird.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. But if that feels like a weird straight line from that to this. And it was like, oh, he didn't work. Like playing old timey in a sincere context.

[David Sims]

That's really interesting.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Apparently, Keaton, this is an aside, but years later, the Pope, John Paul II came to the United States and like, he called or his office called Keaton and was like, we'd like to meet you. And Keaton's like, I'm not a practicing Catholic. That feels disrespectful. And then they were like, we're big Johnny Dangerously fans.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, look, this is one of the best Pope comedies.

[Griffin Newman]

What is?

[David Sims]

He gives them a bunch of money once he makes it as a gangster and goes build a new gym at the Vatican.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. And then Don DeLuise weighs it, like it's a little light.

[Griffin Newman]

And. And basically Keaton's like, look, I'll do this if my mom can come because my mom is, like a real Catholic who, like, goes to church and cares about the Pope. So can, like, she come with me and, like, get blessed by the Pope?

[Ben Hosley]

Kind of a huge flex.

[Griffin Newman]

A kind of a huge flex.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's a, you know. Again, once again, JJ has posted a four paragraph story in the middle of the research.

[David Sims]

Oh, good.

[Griffin Newman]

I can't read it word for word.

[David Sims]

Pope said, absolutely not.

[Griffin Newman]

But he. You come alone.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. Or don't come at all.

[Griffin Newman]

He, you know, met the Pope.

[Josh Gondelman]

Wow. He met at the.

[David Sims]

I just couldn't imagine. I guess it's a little different now that with Conclave out in the world, but I can't imagine Popes watching movies.

[Josh Gondelman]

No, no. It is weird to think about. It's also weird to think about, like, does, like, Vatican City have its own, like, sort of closed circuit TV system? Like, like when you're at a college or something, or a cruise, you know?

[David Sims]

Yeah, right.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like, is Johnny Dangerously just one of only four movies that Vatican City has in rotation?

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe. I don't know. Maybe it's.

[Ben Hosley]

Do they cut the movies for the Pope and take stuff out that might offend them?

[Josh Gondelman]

He's only seen the Pope scene.

[David Sims]

Or my favorite other Pope.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite thought is just like, do they just decide they want Michael Keaton for some star power? And then he's like, I don't know. And they're like, no, we love Dangerously. Like, they pick a weird one. They don't want to be obvious, to be like, we love Batman.

[David Sims]

They must be real Fans.

[Josh Gondelman]

But they're also like, this Catholic church can approve of Night shift. Everyone says Mr. Mom. What's third on the list?

[David Sims]

Be so funny. The Pope loves Beetlejuice.

[Griffin Newman]

Mary Lou Henner.

[David Sims]

That's not what it's really like.

[Josh Gondelman]

Mary Lou Henner. And let me just check my notes here quickly.

[Griffin Newman]

Very beautiful woman, obviously, had just been on Taxi, the great sitcom Nardo. She was cast supposedly because of a red carpet photo taken of her and her on and off boyfriend, John Travolta, who she dated for much of the seventies and so on. Johnny, as she says, took me to the Staying Alive premiere towards the end of my Tucson shoot for Cannonball Run 2. A lot of shit being brought up here.

[Josh Gondelman]

I was gonna say, a lot of normal things happen. Happening in the culture.

[Griffin Newman]

And I guess the picture made the front page of the. Some news, the LA Times calendar section. And she got cast in Johnny Dangerously off someone seeing the picture, I guess, and being like, what a babe.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. She also. She has the right look.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, she does, sure. Piscopo had just finished snl and Pisco Fox was kind of like, it's Keaton's movie and it's Mary. You know, Mary Lou and Maureen Stapleton and Peterboy. Like, it's a cameo for me. Like, he's very like, you know, what's the word? Humble about it.

[Josh Gondelman]

But the poster, they got a box around the name.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a box.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's a box in the credit. Piscopo as Vermin.

[Griffin Newman]

As Vermin. And of course, he's. He's the. He's. His face is as big as Keaton's on the poster.

[Josh Gondelman]

Have you guys seen the trailer for this movie?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I know. I watch it every day, actually. I watch it before I wake up. I watch it before I go to sleep. No, why would I see the trailer?

[David Sims]

David likes to wake up dangerously.

[Josh Gondelman]

He lives dangerously. He sleeps dangerously. He has it running in headphones while he sleeps. The trailer for this movie is very cool because it falls into the category I love of trailers that had footage shot only for the trailer. The trailer is a projectionist booth, and it says, this theater right now. Pisco walks in as Johnny Vermin and, like, holds the projection as hostage and basically sells you on the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. And that's them trying to cash in on Piscobo.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's what I'm saying. I'm like. The trailer is like, Joe Piscopo presents his new movie, Johnny Dangerously. He does the once joke. It's good.

[Griffin Newman]

He followed this up, of course, with Wise guys. And that's kind of the end of that for Joe Biscopo. Like Hollywood pretty quickly is like, okay, you're sort of a footnote. All the other big stars, of course, Stapleton, Boyle, DeVito, Jack, Nancy mentioned Carl Gottlieb's in this. Griffin Dunn is. This is in between American Werewolf in London and After Hours. So Griffin Dunn is, you know, he's working and obviously his sister Dominique Dunne was murdered in 82. So he's in the middle of that while this is being filmed. A very famous shocking Hollywood murder. And he is good in the movie, but he's the least comic, I guess.

[Josh Gondelman]

I love him.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, I love Griffin Dunn. I know he's a big guy for you.

[David Sims]

He's very endearing. But there is, I think it's a disservice that the thing they give him, the big comedic angle is like he's so horny.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It's an interesting. I think he maybe doesn't play the horniness enough. In a way. The joke is funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I think the payoff is less funny than the setup.

[Griffin Newman]

He plays like the righteousness. Well.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, like the kind of. Yeah.

[David Sims]

As the, like the do Gooder kid brother.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think he doesn't really get jokes in this movie. He doesn't get like moments to score. It's one of the. I mean, he's kind of like got the thankless role in a certain way.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's kind of the guy, Right. Who bursts into the movie being like, everyone stop having fun.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. But I also think he's like really good at playing the. The kind of comedic pitch of the character, if that makes sense. Like he's doing a good parody of this type of role. And the kind of obliviousness and the sort of wet behind the ears, naive, like, wow, what a great big world kind of thing.

[Griffin Newman]

What's the last time you directed a movie?

[Josh Gondelman]

It's been a while. He sort of had another wind as an actor.

[Griffin Newman]

We're. And right. We're not counting the Joan Didion. It's the Accidental Husband. Right. Okay. He's a good director. Or I like, I'm a big fan obviously of some of his movies. Addicted to Love and Practical Magic. To be clear. Johnny Dangerously budget, $9 million shot in LA on sound stages. Might surprise you to hear a lot of this movie was full on.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's just another one of the jokes I love immediately in the opening narration is like all the immigrants moved to New York City in what felt like a two block Stretch.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Which I'm like, oh, they're making the joke right off the bat about like. This is like the backlot New York City street that every studio has. That looks big. As long as you never go past these two blocks.

[David Sims]

It's fun. I loved all that little framing stuff at the beginning saying, my mother, she had this way with words and she just goes, the Lower east side really sucks.

[Josh Gondelman]

I just liked it right out of the gate. This movie has like 15 jokes. I like, like rat a tat.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like right away. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone had fun making this movie.

[Josh Gondelman]

Good.

[Griffin Newman]

But did you say good?

[Josh Gondelman]

Good?

[Griffin Newman]

Henner. This is merely Henner's quote. You know you're in trouble when the wrap party lasts until 6:30 in the morning and the director shows up with a dog collar around her neck. Go off, Amy, and you sit around and watch a gag reel of the shoot. It's the kiss of death. It means you had way too much fun making the movie and too much of the energy dissipated before you actually got it on screen. When I finally got to see the film, I was in shock. 90% of the fun we had was missing from the movie. So everyone's having a good time, but maybe they're not figuring out how to cut that all together. I don't know. Henner says that Heckling was maybe talked out of some of the zany stuff she wanted to do. But Henry seems to be very unhappy with the movie. The movie tested poorly and so I think they did mess with it a lot. Trying to figure out how to kind of, you know, soften it, I think for the audience a little bit. Heaton dies in the original incarnation of the film.

[Josh Gondelman]

Interesting. So it was the whole framing and audiences hated that. That makes sense.

[Griffin Newman]

So they made it slapstick and. And, you know. Yeah, did the framing device.

[David Sims]

The framing device feels naughty.

[Josh Gondelman]

It does. Like we need to start the movie letting you know that this guy's gonna.

[Griffin Newman]

Be fine, that he's gonna be fine.

[Josh Gondelman]

And he's gonna make it to the other side.

[David Sims]

And that we're watching a thing that's like an old timey thing. We're not just starting in 1910.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right.

[David Sims]

We're, we're starting in the future and he's looking back. That's why we're in the past. Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

You start in the very modern 1930s so the audience doesn't turn off.

[Griffin Newman]

There was also. There was a thought to film the film in black and white and Heckerling decided to do color and somewhat regrets that decision. But I don't know, the color is nice. This movie is, like, visually exciting and bouncy. Weird Ali Unkovich, the great Weird Al, of course, does the song this Is the Life. And I think you did a good job.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. I was going to say this is maybe a moment where Josh and I are like, couldn't be more in. And you guys are pushing back a little bit.

[David Sims]

Although the version I saw, I found that out later. The version I saw started with let's Misbehave. Because.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Which I. Because I saw, like, there was a video version.

[Griffin Newman]

A contract dispute between the film's producers and CBS Records, who I guess own the Weird Al catalog. And so his song was not included in the VHS release of the film. It was instead replaced by let's Misbehave.

[Josh Gondelman]

Which they use in the end credits.

[Griffin Newman]

Has been restored to the DVD release.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay. Because even in the Piscopo trailer, they call out, the announcer says, opening song by Weird Al. So that is kind of was big.

[Griffin Newman]

It must be really.

[David Sims]

Because they pretend he was in the movie about Weird.

[Griffin Newman]

I love Rocky Road, which I feel like was his. One of his first big ones.

[Josh Gondelman]

Tangent coming. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Comes out in 83. That's just a year. So it's like he's just started being a big deal.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is Tom Green and Road Trip. This is them going like, we're the first movie that gets to bottle Weird Al and put him on the big screen.

[David Sims]

That lightning.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, we.

[Griffin Newman]

And he. And he. It was lightning.

[Josh Gondelman]

So let's go. Okay, so wait. I love Rocky Road. It happened. Had My Bologna happened. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

My Bologna is on the same album as I Love Rocky, but I think.

[Josh Gondelman]

That was the Doc Demento track that put him on the map.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. So maybe that comes first.

[Josh Gondelman]

What about Another One Rides the Bus?

[Griffin Newman]

That's earlier. So the whole thing with My Bologna, I think, is, like, he does the original. Ben has a scathing look on his face.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm thrilled.

[Griffin Newman]

I love Weird Al.

[Ben Hosley]

I just can't believe the. Just how quickly.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes. I'm trying to establish this.

[Griffin Newman]

The whole thing with My Bologna, Right. Is the original version of his bathroom with a squeeze box. Right. To get the acoustics right. And that's the one that Dr. Demento plays. And then he does another one Rides the Bus, which is an EP. And then he does his first full album in 1983. And that has, of course, I Love Rocky Road.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Which you may or may not know is a parody of Joan Jett's I Love Rock and Roll.

[David Sims]

Okay. I thought that was an original.

[Josh Gondelman]

You Josh You. You made the embarrassing mistake of thinking that I love rock and roll was a parody of I Love Rocky Road. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's a common mistake.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, what's your favorite Weird Al song? The Coolio Paradise. That is really good.

[Josh Gondelman]

His biggest fan.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love Weird Al. I love that he's still just doing it.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay, I want to figure out what else is on that first album.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, well, I can tell you that. And I think this is true of a lot of those early Weird albums. Them, you know, it's half original songs, half parodies.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sure, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay, so I'm not I Love Rocky.

[Griffin Newman]

Road, My Bologna and Another One Rides the Bus. Do you want me to tell you the other? And then two parodies.

[David Sims]

This was the original version of Nothing Compares to you was on this, right?

[Griffin Newman]

People forget Prince, right? Yeah, yeah. He's also got Ricky, which is a parody of Mickey, and Stop Dragging My Car around, which is a parody of the Stevie Nicks Tom Petty song Stop Dragging Heart Around. And then there is a song called Happy Birthday that apparently it's noted here is a style parody of Tonyoke Don't Know what to Tell you. And then a bunch of original songs, you know, and then in 3D is the next album, and that is a little more like pretty much all parodies. A couple original songs. That's got. Eat it.

[Josh Gondelman]

Does it have Like a Surgeon or is that later?

[Griffin Newman]

No, it's got the Brady Bunch, which is a parody of the Safety Dance. Wow. Maybe I should go deep on Al.

[David Sims]

He's probably said this Other Places, but he.

[Griffin Newman]

Like a Surgeon's on his third album, of course. It's called Dared to Be Stupid.

[David Sims]

Great.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's the big one.

[David Sims]

I did a. Wait, wait, where he was the special interview guest.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Very intimidated. Yeah, but he's so sweet. He was so lovely.

[Josh Gondelman]

He's not like the second nicest man in comedy behind Josh Gamble.

[David Sims]

That's right. Don't come for my crown, Al, because it will not go well for you. But he said his. One of the, like, white whales of. Of parody was he reached out to Prince about doing a parody, and Prince said, like, no, thank you. And he respected his wishes. Yeah, but the. The one that he had pitched, and I'm sure he said this Other places was for UHF. They wanted to do a song called 1999. But, like, as a Ron Popil like, all it. It cost is three installments of 1999.

[Josh Gondelman]

Funny.

[David Sims]

And I was like, that's why you're the king.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's why? He's the king. I've always liked that about him. The gentlemanly sort of like, I don't need to legally clear this, but I won't do it unless you're cool with it.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it is Coolio, right, where. Where he had the experience of Coolio being like that guy and him being like, well, I don't ever want to, like, bum anyone out, so I'll always clear. But then Coolio later was like, I don't know what my problem was. The song is good. Like, I think I was just too famous that I was, like, going insane.

[Josh Gondelman]

Didn't like Amish paradise, outsell gangsters Paradise.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's the real question, right? Is Coolio a good rapper? Is Coolio good?

[Josh Gondelman]

Huge question.

[Griffin Newman]

Because, like, Gangsta's paradise is great.

[Josh Gondelman]

He did pass away recently, right?

[David Sims]

We're speaking of the death a few years ago.

[Griffin Newman]

He died in 2022. And I think Coolio is a celebrity we all enjoy. We all enjoy gentle, old gray hair. I'm gonna say gray hair.

[Josh Gondelman]

I couldn't have loved him more as a celebrity in the 90s.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, coolio is where it's like Kenan and Kel, where they're like, obviously our first choice to do the theme song is Coolio. Like you. That is the key.

[Josh Gondelman]

And I see that opening and I go, got it. So he's the most important musician alive.

[David Sims]

But Gangsta's paradise was also like, is a good song.

[Josh Gondelman]

Good song. Big.

[David Sims]

Nominated for a bunch of Grammys.

[Griffin Newman]

Big hits.

[Josh Gondelman]

Huge.

[Griffin Newman]

And obviously the movie Dangerous Minds. Dangerous Minds, the movie. And like. But, like, is Coolio good?

[Josh Gondelman]

That's a great question.

[Ben Hosley]

I think he's kind of more a novelty, horny.

[Griffin Newman]

But then he had, like, a long career with a lot of albums, and I do feel like it early on, was he a little more.

[Josh Gondelman]

My Soul was the album I owned. I Had My Soul.

[Griffin Newman]

My Soul is his third album that's post Gangsta's paradise, and that's got Ooh La La.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. Good song.

[Griffin Newman]

And see when you get there, where he's sampling Pachelbel's canon, and it's one of those things where I'm like, well, that doesn't sound that cool.

[Josh Gondelman]

No, but it sounds good. It's maybe more Goodio than Coolio if.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I'm changing my name to Goodio. I no longer care about being cool.

[David Sims]

I don't know if I get to assign these, but five weird outpoints.

[Josh Gondelman]

Thank you. Is anything more cool than not caring about whether others think you're cool?

[Griffin Newman]

Do you think Coolio was saying that at like sort of to the media?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Ben, what's your. What's your.

[Ben Hosley]

I was just gonna say, looking at someone's like record collection, if they had a later Coolio or early Coolio album, I would be like, this is a weird ass person.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, remind something about to invite you over to my place.

[Griffin Newman]

I remember like having friends who own Gangsters paradise, the second album, which is obviously the big breakup. But right after that, I don't know if I'm like, let me hit up Virgin Megastore.

[Josh Gondelman]

When you say late Coolio album, what's your cut off point? Are we talking. Coolio.com is called coolio.com.

[David Sims]

I love that era of things. Albums were called like. I think daddy had an album called like www.Thug.com.

[Josh Gondelman]

Dude.

[Griffin Newman]

It was just for like a year or two, right? Where it was just like, websites are new.

[David Sims]

And then like I party. Wasn't it like I party.com or like every.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, yes.

[David Sims]

I just love that idea. When everything was like, we have to be named after the Internet.

[Griffin Newman]

Not to invoke, you know, Mr. Kelly. But also R. Kelly's fourth album was called tp2.com. People forget. Yeah. After coolio.com is how cool.

[David Sims]

I like that.

[Josh Gondelman]

Is that a cutoff point for you, Ben? Does that count as a laid out.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm literally sure for Ben. The cutoff is like a speck at this point.

[David Sims]

Like Ben is so far. Ben is like tapping out, gasping for air. The taps are getting fainter.

[Griffin Newman]

I think as much as I am famously Hip Hop Sims, I think I am not up enough on Coolio's like emergence, right. As like an artist to know if he ever had much credit. Right. You know what I mean? Because the whole thing with Gangsters paradise is like, the sample is so good, right.

[David Sims]

And the. The LV singing that bridge in the chorus is just like, it just go. It's so. Yeah, it's great.

[Griffin Newman]

But he's not bad rapping. He's.

[Josh Gondelman]

Let's also acknowledge, like him being 8 year old Griffin Newman's idol doesn't lend him a ton of cred points.

[David Sims]

I was very young and surprisingly very white at the time. And so it is like the kind of thing where I'm like, yeah, similar to you, Griffin, where I was like, this is cool. Which probably means it isn't cool.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. The fact that I liked him is kind of a strike against him that he was kind of the king of Nickelodeon. I do. This is somewhat embarrassing to admit. I remember Seeing an ad during probably a Nickelodeon show for his album My Soul, and thinking to myself, I really want that. But my parents don't respect hip hop. They'd never buy it for me. Not saying it out loud. And then months later finding it under the tree on Christmas.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Josh Gondelman]

And citing it as evidence that Santa Claus was real.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh. And. And respected hip hop.

[Josh Gondelman]

I doubled down on Santa for like a couple more years because of Coolio.

[Griffin Newman]

I refuse to believe that my parents thought to get me.

[David Sims]

How did they know?

[Josh Gondelman]

I distinctly remember being too embarrassed to tell them.

[David Sims]

You thought Santa read your thoughts correct and then was like, I got him.

[Josh Gondelman]

Because I definitely didn't put it in a list.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. I was like, santa. Not only is Santa real, he can read minds.

[David Sims]

That is pretty good deductive reasoning.

[Josh Gondelman]

Thank you. Santa's got Cerebro. And he knows I like Coolio.

[David Sims]

He knows when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake. I mean, he knows your favorite hip hop artist.

[Josh Gondelman]

If he knows when you're sleeping, when you're awake, when you're good or bad, for goodness sake. Reason, you know, to believe that he might also know which hip hop artist you like. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It's interesting though, because, yeah, I read about him and it's like, yeah, he, it's. He was asthmatic, so he grew up kind of like sheltered and didn't go out much and like, went to the library a lot, apparently, and played board games. But then he did, you know, serve a little prison time for larceny and was addicted to crack in the 80s for a little bit. So, like, he had hard times in his life and then. But I do think he kind of always was a little cornea.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

A little corny.

[Josh Gondelman]

Little corny, which is fine. Can I swing back to the. The Mary Lou Henner point?

[Griffin Newman]

That's interesting. You don't want to do 10 to 15 more in Coolio. Yeah. Mary Lou Hen.

[Josh Gondelman]

Trust me. We will get back to Mary Lou.

[Griffin Newman]

Henner saying, like, basically, like, we all had so much fun, but I don't see it on screen.

[Josh Gondelman]

You hear that a lot. I feel like, especially with comedies where people are like, terrible shoot, great movie. If you're having too much fun, something's wrong. The energy is not getting captured in the right place. And I even feel like a lot of times when. When stars have finished filming a comedy and are talking to the press and they're like, we had so much fun filming it that I don't think it's going to turn out well. Like, they're trying to own the joke of it. Mary Lou Henner, also famously autobiographical memory.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. She has hyperthymesia, which is essentially a sort of super memory of like being able to recall like all of her life experiences in detail.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

And I've like watched the. I think it was a 60 minute segment where she sort of came forward with her experiences with that which was not public about for a while and they talked to other people who have experienced this. And the thing that is like not discussed as much is like, oh, you can ask Mary Lou Henner any specific date and she will tell you like the weather and what she wore and everything. The thing they don't talk about is like, like it is emotional as well, that not only do you like recall the detail of everything, but you feel it as you think it. And like in that 60 minute special, there are women who are just like, I like still can't get over my high school breakup because I wake up every morning and it feels like it just happened. It is like that present to me. So the idea of the Johnny Dangerously rap party outtakes, real. Being played while Amy Heckerling wins, wears a dog collar and Mary Lou Henner is like, this movie's not going to be a hit being a thing she wakes up with every morning and feels deeply. But you also, she's coming off one of the best sitcoms of the 70s and the 80s and she's starting to do movies. And then like the movie career that I think she should have had like immediately kind of doesn't happen in the wake of Johnny Dangerously. It's not like this movie's designed to make her a star, but I also think like her looking back on it harshly probably is like the momentum stops here for sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, she doesn't become a movie star at all. Josh, what's your Mary Lou Henner take?

[David Sims]

Oh, I was just gonna say it though. She doesn't have a ton of fun to do. Kind of in the same way that Griffin Dunn doesn't. Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

That's true. This is also the most thankless of the big roles, probably. Yeah, she looks good.

[Josh Gondelman]

I feel like they let her deliver more jokes, but dis. But she's more often the subject of the joke than she gets. She does get to make some totally right.

[David Sims]

But they give her. It's a lot of like, it's a right about her people talking about her and, and, and I think it's like a little slight compared to even some of the small like Johnny's. Johnny and Tommy's mother Gets like a lot of great jokes.

[Josh Gondelman]

It also feels like Mary Lou disappears for like the middle 40 minutes of the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

She doesn't really matter in the plot a lot.

[Josh Gondelman]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

She kind of just pops in and out.

[Josh Gondelman]

She comes back at the end and is like, oh, Vermin's trying to make me his girl. Here's information. And you're like, where have you been for the last 40 minutes? Like the. The whole her getting in with Vermin.

[Griffin Newman]

Thing, she's like, I can tell you everywhere that I've been in the last 40.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, I know it's happens entirely off screen.

[Griffin Newman]

And one day CBS will make a. A movie about a TV show about my condition.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Unforgettable.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right.

[David Sims]

She now sees the future she has a credit on.

[Josh Gondelman]

And then also it was like a consultant plays the. Her mother or some. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting. I mean, I. Her big thing after this is Evening Shade. Right. Like, that's her sort of like, she eventually ends up back in tv, but she does not become a movie star. She isn't like, she's in Noises Off.

[Josh Gondelman]

She's in Stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

She's very good.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

She's in LA Story, which is good.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's specific, you know.

[Josh Gondelman]

But yes, this was. It is this era where, like, if you are on a good TV show and you got the it factor, they're gonna give you like two or three shots to be a movie star.

[Griffin Newman]

A couple bites.

[Josh Gondelman]

And if it doesn't work and you go back to tv, it does kind of feel like a concession in a way that is so hard to think about now. It's so different relative to, like, DeVito in this, where you're like, of that Taxi cast, that is the guy I would least bet on to become a. Getting a tiny star.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. And like, this is the era where you're just like DeVito doing like this level of thing. And Johnny Dangerously makes so much sense. But the ascension from being like, of course, DeVito, great character actor to one of the biggest value adds in a supporting role to DeVito, makes movies like constructs vehicles around himself, directs and writes and stars in his own films. It's just kind of wild.

[Griffin Newman]

This is still his supporting king era, for sure. He basically is rude gambler in this movie, like from Mars Attack.

[Josh Gondelman]

But I think it's.

[Griffin Newman]

No, he's funny, but it's just like he's just dropping in to do a couple funny scenes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. Which is very similar to his Terms of Endearment role.

[Griffin Newman]

Obviously. Something like Romancing the Stone is a little more Filled out, but he's a supporting player.

[Josh Gondelman]

Still romancing the stone. Feels like it is supposed to be the same size role as this. And he starts over delivering so much that he becomes more important in the movie. But if you actually clock him, he doesn't have that much screen time. And that feels like people being like, do we start to, like, write these movies around him?

[Griffin Newman]

I love DeVito. I never want to lose the man. Like, can we get 10, 20, 30 more years of Danny DeVito?

[Josh Gondelman]

Let's put some air tags on him.

[David Sims]

80. I'm not a person.

[Griffin Newman]

That's fucking crazy. And he's still just doing Sonny and.

[David Sims]

And the Jersey Mike's commercials.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

I don't get super invested in, like, celebrity relationships, but that brief period where it was public that he and Rhea Perlman had separated for a short time, I remember being like, oh, love isn't real.

[Griffin Newman]

That was a little shocking.

[Josh Gondelman]

But then they, like, got back together. Now they're sort of like, together with distance.

[Griffin Newman]

They've got a Tracy, let's carry Coon thing going on. You know, they believe in boundaries.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. But that was. That's just like, one of the most perfect celebrity couples of all time. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Did you hear Carrie Coon on wtf?

[Josh Gondelman]

I haven't listened yet, so I haven't either.

[Griffin Newman]

With France. Last night I saw a friend, she was telling me, you gotta listen. And she was like, yeah. She was like, carrie just as. Keeps being like my old husband with his DVDs like that. She's not like, oh, I love DVDs that. She's like, Tracy's crazy.

[Josh Gondelman]

The clip of her on Fallon promoting Ghostbusters, Colon, Frozen Empire, when it, I feel like, was the first time she really started publicly talking about the physical media collection. And she's, like, doing it in this sort of like, screwball comedy like, affectation voice where she goes, my husband has 10,000 blu rays. And every time I hear her say it, it's just like full body shivers. Like, why is this the sexiest thing I've ever heard?

[Griffin Newman]

Coolest.

[Josh Gondelman]

She is the coolest. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

All right, so Donnie 10,000 blue, Johnny dangerous, die Dangerously. It's about you open with Kelly's past. You got this. You got this framing device, right? Yeah, but kind of.

[David Sims]

I would call it kind of in the unfrosted vein.

[Griffin Newman]

It's Clifford esque as well.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, yeah, yeah. You're absolutely right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Did you ever get unfrosted?

[Griffin Newman]

I. We've talked about this. Your memory is gone.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm sorry, I. It is the Unfrosted framing device is the most insane shit in the world.

[David Sims]

No reason for it. Although I think maybe the best joke in the movie is the little kid sitting at the soda fountain and going, two Pop Tarts leave the box.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes, that is funny.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I just couldn't hate Unfrosted. But, I mean, the whole movie is, why does this exist?

[David Sims]

Certainly a question even Jerry Seinfeld himself cannot answer and has declined to.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think part of my I can't hate Unfrosted is getting back to your original point. It's like, we don't get this kind of anymore. Like, I don't find the majority of this funny, but I like that he made it. Whereas everyone else is like, why spend this much time and energy making something this stupid? I'm like, this is what our country was founded on.

[David Sims]

I wish he spent more time and energy making something that stupid, because it feels like. And there is. I think there's a. There's something to be done with a genre parody of this genre of a company existed, which is so many movies now are that. And I think it. There's. There is a genre parody in there. But I don't think Jerry Seinfeld thought about that or cared.

[Josh Gondelman]

That was irrelevant.

[David Sims]

He was just like, I like Pop Tarts. This is funny to me.

[Josh Gondelman]

But you're right that the Clifford's framing device is the same thing of, like, we want to tell the audience this guy is okay before the movie starts. The one reason I don't bump on this is I do think Keaton's performance is so funny in the wraparound, being the kind of, like, G shocks guy. And they're even just some little throwaway gags of him doing the price sticker gun on the camels. There's stuff like that where I'm just like, this movie has, like, a level of, like, comedic invention.

[David Sims]

And there are. I love. I like that there are jokes in that. And it's not just like, a dry setup. The kid, right, is stealing a dog, and he goes, you like stealing? And the kid goes, beats paying for it. It's like, that's a cute little joke.

[Josh Gondelman]

This movie just for me is on the right line of, like, something like the Friedberg Seltzer movies, which are so overzealous in their attempt to have, like. Like, no down moments. And yet nothing is actually really a joke. There's something that resembles a joke every two seconds, but if you look at it, you're like, that's just them doing the thing and pointing at it. Or someone getting kicked in the nuts. Right. Whereas this is like trying not to go more than five seconds without something funny happening. But that can be like a visual gag, a written gag. It can be a reaction. It can be the way someone says something. Like it feels versatile enough in the way it is exploring how can you make a movie funny?

[David Sims]

Right. Some just genre cues of like, oh, where you're gonna look at this thing. That kind of blows out the convention. And yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Term I feel like we should be using for this movie is wacky.

[Josh Gondelman]

It is a very wacky.

[David Sims]

I'll give you wacky.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, there's a lot of wacky moments. But wacky isn't necessarily like laugh out loud funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's true.

[Griffin Newman]

One could say that that's how we feel about it, you and I. But then again. But then I love Weird Al. Who is wacky. You're.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, I'd say he's more weird.

[Griffin Newman]

What's. What's. What's giving you that feeling about him?

[Josh Gondelman]

His basic temperament.

[Griffin Newman]

So, John, we flashback to the 19 teens and he's a news boy.

[Josh Gondelman]

He's trying to steal the. The pair or. No, he's trying to steal a puppy. Yeah. And John Dangerously gives him the.

[Griffin Newman]

Got it. With the framing device.

[Josh Gondelman]

Let's move on. Like you. Let me tell you how I got that.

[Griffin Newman]

He's a kid. He's a newsboy in New York City. He's a good boy. He's played by Byron Tems, who has got a, you know, a little face.

[Josh Gondelman]

He does indeed have a little.

[Griffin Newman]

It doesn't really look like. But is most famously the parent of Hudson Thames.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Who is the voice of Peter Parker in lots of things. I will say.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, interesting.

[Griffin Newman]

A little fact I have for you there.

[Josh Gondelman]

He's connected to the Eddie Fisher. Carrie Fisher. I'm just seeing sister in law of Jordan Fisher.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, he married Fisher. Oh, he married Trisha Fisher, who is the son of Eddie Fisher. And the half. Was the half sister of Carrie Fisher. Different mommy. He's a good little newsboy. His mother, in my opinion, may be the comedic powerhouse of the film. Or Stapleton, who is so fucking funny. This is right when she's just like won an Oscar. She wins an Oscar for reds. And I want to say 82. Right? Let's see. 81. So she's just won an Oscar and she's like, yeah, let me at Johnny Dangerously. I'll have fun.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right? I'm just gonna like play this as straight as I can. Like, the joke is giving everything to.

[Griffin Newman]

Gravitas they are very fun.

[Josh Gondelman]

Her like opening scene after the. The street, but her coming home to the apartment, them giving her the cigarettes. Oh, well, I've been considering trying, but this finally pushes me over the edge. And then the reveal that she's 29 years.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Happy 29th birthday, Mom.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, that.

[Griffin Newman]

So she's there. She's the mommy. And Johnny's dad is dead of. He was a criminal.

[Josh Gondelman]

They have a photo on the desk of him in the electric chair.

[David Sims]

Mommy, that's not what I'm saying. This one got bend.

[Griffin Newman]

And you know, you've got. You've already got, like, young Danny Verman. Right. Is. Is the rival newspaper. You've got the brother, obviously, who's a good, good boy. And you've got Roman Maroney, the nightclub owner who played by Richard Dimitri.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, oh, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Who is a malaprophist.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes. And then Peter Boyle is Jocko Dundee.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

Who of course has the same initiation as Giant Dangerously. I always think young Griffin Dunn is Lucas House.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he does look like.

[Josh Gondelman]

It does look like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yes, he does. But it's Troy Slayton who became a lawyer, who was on Cagney and Lacey as one of their children.

[Josh Gondelman]

I guess he ran for a judge of Los Angeles superior court in 2022.

[Griffin Newman]

He was also on Parker Lewis Can't Lose.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, I'll tell you what he lost his campaign for judge of the Los Angeles Superior Court.

[Griffin Newman]

What the is Parker Lewis? That was on the TV for a while.

[Josh Gondelman]

Parker Lewis Can't Lose was like the ripoff of Ferris Bueller. It's basically a TV show that's just trying to do Ferris Bueller. And then I think Hughes and Paramount were like that. We could put Ferris Bueller on tv and they did that. No one liked that.

[Griffin Newman]

Was.

[David Sims]

Was there, like, fourth wall breaking in Parker Lewis Can't Lose?

[Josh Gondelman]

I think so. I think that it might have been a little bit of a Clarissa.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Let me explain it all. Yes.

[David Sims]

He's like a cool team because that's. That's.

[Josh Gondelman]

Of course, it's. That's a. A Bueller. Bueller tells us it's time to leave the theater. The surrealism was toned down in the series final season. Going as far as having Parker acknowledge us by breaking the fourth wall and canceling one of the show's transitions.

[Griffin Newman]

That sounds okay. Did Peter Boyle always look like that? Yes, he just always looked like that.

[Josh Gondelman]

He came out looking like. Right.

[David Sims]

He almost seems like he was a baby like that and never grew the rest of his hair.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes, I would agree.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, here I Found a picture like a bear. And I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

[Josh Gondelman]

How much hair? How much hair are we talking about?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, here is Peter Boyle as an actual young man with hair. There's his hair.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then here is Peter Boyle 40.

[David Sims]

Minutes later.

[Griffin Newman]

With I think a little bit more like, you know, their hair's starting to go a little bit. He's combing it. He's got a big part and he's a handsome guy. But it is funny that he looked like Frankenstein.

[Josh Gondelman]

He did.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. That is why he play Frankenstein in Young Frankenstein. But like, even in this, he's good as a gangster. If they're like, looks like Frankenstein.

[David Sims]

If they remade Young Frankenstein now, it would be Austin Butler in the worst bald cap you've ever seen.

[Josh Gondelman]

And he'd be dragged.

[David Sims]

And then he would show up. He'd show up at the Oscars. Like when he's exempting the Oscar, he can't drop it.

[Griffin Newman]

Genius.

[David Sims]

God, he spent all the time with Frankenstein, its family.

[Josh Gondelman]

Peterboy has maybe one of the blockiest.

[Griffin Newman]

Heads, like one of the most Holly. One of Hollywood's great noggins.

[Josh Gondelman]

Just like such a cute angles on his skull, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Just like.

[Josh Gondelman]

I feel like that should be all straight lines.

[Griffin Newman]

A Ripley's Believe it or not museum you can go to. It's just like Hollywood's greatest noggins. And it's just like heads revolving on sticks.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like, when you see him with hair, it looks. Looks wrong. You're just like the amount of forehead that guy had was part of the charm.

[David Sims]

You can't. You can't contain that with hair anyway.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. So you got, you know, will he enter a life of crime? He has to support his family.

[Josh Gondelman]

His mother has a series of conditions, the prices of which keep going up. It starts out as very Ron Pompeii. 1999.

[David Sims]

Yeah, 1999. This for now only or something. This week only, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, because like, Bole is like, I'll. You do this, I'll give you 50 bucks. He's like, no, no. And then it's like, right, your mom has this operation. It's 49.95 this week only. So, right, he's got to do it.

[Josh Gondelman]

He helps smuggle weapons into the club using the newspapers. It's weird. The more we talk about it, it's almost as if you're realizing that every joke in this movie is good.

[Griffin Newman]

It sounds funny said aloud. And I again, I. I liked this movie. I was like, it's funny.

[Ben Hosley]

The electric chair Picture is funny when you describe it. But when I watch it, I'm like.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, see, there are a bunch of movies like that that I watch. And I'm like, I like that they made this. Like, it doesn't make me laugh. This is a good. Good question. What? I mean, definitely. I'll say this. Like, a lot of the weird Michael Keaton 80s and 90s around, the good ones are like that. Where I'm like, nothing in this is making me laugh and it should be funny. I like this cast. I like this premise.

[Griffin Newman]

Gung ho.

[Josh Gondelman]

Gung ho is weirder because I think gung ho is very affable and is also so culturally regressive that you're like, gung ho is the best of this era, but also the most conceptually.

[David Sims]

This. This movie. Johnny Dangerously, we've talked about the character already, but they did. They did the. Have the incredible foresight to make the guy with the nearly inscrutable accent Greek.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And you're like, all right, we can still laugh at that.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, that's fine.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right? And I'm allowed to do my impression in the opening. No. Like, the Dream Team is one of those. Speechless is one of those.

[Griffin Newman]

Heard of these.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm also, I think, kind of like, can we get to grownups up Keaton, please? Sure. See this kid.

[Josh Gondelman]

Which is another reason, probably why it's worth starting the movie with the framing device of, like, get Keaton on screen. I'll meet you.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure, sure.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

How to describe the rest of Johnny Dangerously? Because it's not. Again, like, at this point, the plot begins to fall away. Like, yes, he has the rivalry. Rivalry with Piscopo. And, yes, he has the rivalry with his brother.

[Josh Gondelman]

I want to name another thing I like very well that I think I like very much that I think is executed very well by Heckerling. These sort of. Okay, Johnny's gonna help prove himself as a little boy and, like, endear himself to Peter Boyle and the mobsters, which he does by the gymnastics routine, knocking out all the gangsters. I think it's fun. That's like heckling also doing, like, musical.

[David Sims]

Numbers, I would say.

[Ben Hosley]

I didn't hear it. N y. I agree.

[David Sims]

That sequence. That sequence. Fun more than funny. I agree.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But it is a delightful little. A combat set piece.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think putting the bucket on his head and sliding across the bar like a missile is funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Is there an argument for, like, this movie is sort of so well made. Looks good.

[Josh Gondelman]

She.

[Griffin Newman]

She understands the sort of cinema she's referencing. Right. It's almost too well made. Then, like, that's almost hurting the comedy a little bit just because it is kind of so jazzy and like. Do you know what I mean? Like, high production value thing.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think I like about it, though, in a lot of ways. Like that it. It does feel like it's not that it's approximating the kind of movie it's parodying. Well, it's that it is creating sort of an equivalent movie of its own. Right. If that makes sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I think maybe my favorite joke in the movie is he's listing all the relatives he never knew. He's walking with Mary Lou Henner, and he's listing, like, I got a brother I never knew. I never knew my father. And it's just like, cut to. They're in different locations. And it. It like, really made me laugh.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's like an editing joke. Like. Right. There's stuff like that that I like. Where she is playing with the form.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben and I are looking at each dog.

[David Sims]

I laughed out loud at that.

[Josh Gondelman]

We had a dog, ran away, never knew him.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[David Sims]

Out. It's so funny to me.

[Griffin Newman]

The. The funniest line to me was it could shoot through a school. Like, that really made me. That was like the one time I was like, that's a funny one.

[David Sims]

So dark too, now. But I still laughed really hard.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

We talked about this in our 1941 episode with the Doughboys, which.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a good example of a movie that's overwhelmed by its scale.

[Josh Gondelman]

And this is what we were saying.

[Griffin Newman]

That there's far worse than Johnny Danger.

[Josh Gondelman]

There's this weird loss, like, twice we were discussing.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

18 times as long. There's this weird line we were discussing where I'm like, if you're gonna parody something and do a style parody, you have to kind of get close to approximating the production values. If you're not getting them and it looks so cheap, then it doesn't work. Unless the joke is that you made it for $2. But then if it looks better than the real thing, then it stops being funny as well. There's like an Uncanny Valley parody line that I do think it helps that this is like. Like doing an homage parody to a B movie genre that it doesn't have to be like an epic, which I feel like History of the World Part one is like a kind of like turning point movie for a lot of people in. Brooks is like. Is this when he goes over the hump?

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Josh Gondelman]

And it's part of that that he's trying to parody, like, epics. And in doing that, inherently, the movie gets too big versus, like, Spaceballs. He's, like, safely below the George Lucas line.

[Griffin Newman]

But, I mean, I think I don't like Spaceballs as much as some people. I think also partly because, Right. It's. It's a little. I mean, he never. Young Frankenstein. Blazing Saddles are like. He never topped that. It's my only issue with doing him on our show with Brooks Mel Brooke is like, I. There's plenty to say about some of the later stuff, but for someone to just, like, kind of fucking nail it so hard with his, like, first three movies, essentially, it's tough to then be like. And then he, you know, made, like, 10 more movies.

[David Sims]

I mean, the next big success. Right, Because Producers was very early as well.

[Josh Gondelman]

The first one.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. And so then. And then the next big. The biggest success after the early wave. Right. Was the Producers musical, which is like.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Like one of the great, most decorated.

[Griffin Newman]

Musicals of all time.

[Josh Gondelman]

I contend that, like, High Anxiety, Silent Movie and History of the World are all interesting to talk about.

[Griffin Newman]

They're totally interesting to talk about.

[Josh Gondelman]

And they're.

[Griffin Newman]

And they have good stuff in them. Them. But obviously they're, you know, they're competing with something almost impossible.

[Josh Gondelman]

The insane thing is that he made two of the greatest comedies of all time in the same year, that he, like, hit a height early on in his career and did two of them so close together, they both come out in 73.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Well, what a crazy. Frankenstein is 74. And I think Blazing Saddles is, too. Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. Anyway, so you get to adult Johnny. Well, basically, he endears himself to the mobsters. They make him one of them, and he owns it. And you immediately set up this dynamic of, like, him walking down the street, people selling I heart Johnny shirts, everyone loving Johnny. But there is this kind of like, Superman, Clark Kent conceit of, like, just within his household. I'm Johnny Kelly at home. I'm Johnny Dangerously in the streets.

[Griffin Newman]

And the whole town, the whole neighborhood is in on it, except for in on keeping it from his mother and.

[Josh Gondelman]

Brother, the closest people in his life. Because the other side of it is the other mobsters don't know that he's the brother of the D.A.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Although that argument, of course, his brother goes to law school and gets married because he wants to get laid, as Martin Stapleton calls him out and becomes a lawyer. Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

And because they show him this weird testicle cartoon, which.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, Josh already said it. But, yeah, the one thing you're just like what?

[David Sims]

And it's. It's such a. Like such a big swing set piece where it's like, it's an animated kind of film, strippy sort of thing. And you're just like, could have done without it.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's also, I don't totally get the inner logic of the joke where the bit is that, like, he's supposed to be the good kid. And the more that Johnny goes bad, he feels a responsibility to his mother to make sure that his little brother stays on rails, right? Suddenly, he's so horny and hot and bothered about his girlfriend that he doesn't want to go to law school. And Johnny takes it upon himself to talk him into going to law school. And you're like, okay, cool comedy setup premise here. Johnny's got to do something to scare him off of just running away and marrying his girlfriend. He needs to stay in law school. And you're like, what is the comedic, like, effect of this? And that's Johnny take him to a room where he has a projector, where he shows him an animation that explains that the more you use your testicles, the more they die.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Where I'm just like, who made this movie and to what end?

[Griffin Newman]

The joke of the movie within the movie is not clear because it's not.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like he shows them, like, a movie about, like, STDs, right. And it's not like he makes up, like, a fake mythical story. You're like, who produced this film?

[David Sims]

Right. Why? Where did Johnny get this?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes, David.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[Josh Gondelman]

You heard the news?

[Griffin Newman]

Nope.

[Josh Gondelman]

This week, something big happened.

[Griffin Newman]

What's up?

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, not literally this week. I mean, like this same week, years ago.

[Griffin Newman]

Ah. In history.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm saying in history, you pick any day, you pick any week, there's some.

[Griffin Newman]

Historic moment that might have changed our understanding of the past and shaped our world today. Perhaps.

[Josh Gondelman]

Also, to be fair, there probably was some big stuff that happened this week. It feels like my news. It feels like we're living in unprecedented times. And honestly, what I wouldn't give for precedent.

[Griffin Newman]

Could they be precedented?

[Josh Gondelman]

Could we get precedented for a moment?

[Griffin Newman]

Now, if I can pivot off of that to tell you the history this week. The official podcast of the History Channel.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Brings these stories to life. Not the dumb bits we were doing days from the past.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Stories of yesteryear.

[Josh Gondelman]

And speaking of dumb bits that we're doing, these stories might have happened a long time ago, far, far away, but they are not Star wars stories. These are real historical stories. No bits.

[Griffin Newman]

They interview experts, often people who are there to witness historical moments. History this week is a cinematic experience. It's a chance to understand the past by hearing it for yourself. This new season they've got kicks off with the story Camp Century, which is the US military's hidden base carved deep into the ice of Greenland. What sort American Greenland today being discussed, but we're talking about the history of this. The US even tried buying Greenland just after World War II with a bag of gold. They went wario on it.

[Josh Gondelman]

And do you know that Greenland is actually pretty icy and Iceland is pretty green.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a good point. History this I'm sure they mentioned. Hopefully that's one of the episodes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

History this week has recently covered a lot of stories that connected today. Time the universal healthcare almost passed under president Harry Truman Realtor life gunslingers and inspired Red Dead redemption.

[Josh Gondelman]

Hey.

[Griffin Newman]

And how Tesla was a man with big dreams before he became a car. He played pool.

[Ben Hosley]

He turned into a car.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, Ben, this is why you gotta listen to podcast so you get some clarification on some of your misunderstandings now.

[Griffin Newman]

So if you want to experience and understand what happened 10, 100, a thousand years ago, check out history this week every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts. History this week.

[Josh Gondelman]

And can I say, you know who helps the sponsor of next week's episode Precedented times. David. You know what that is?

[Griffin Newman]

The telephone.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's not me introducing an ad read character. It's me doing an impression of my mother who True Facts called three times during the most recent episode record.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait, your mom was calling too?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, my grandmother was calling as well. Look, they all want me on the phone and sometimes I got a busy job grinding out these movie discussion episodes. Oh, turning to be crank my calloused hand.

[Griffin Newman]

Our job is so hard.

[Josh Gondelman]

Here's the thing. I love them. I love my mother and grandmother. But sometimes I'm too busy doing bits or guessing missing box office stats and I need another way to show them and tell them that I love them. And it has been said that a picture is worth a thousand words.

[Griffin Newman]

Who said that?

[Josh Gondelman]

Many people. But what about a picture frame? A digital picture frame that can cycle through images. We're talking hundreds pictures.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I mean literally rather than the.

[Josh Gondelman]

One get to a million words. You might do it. What I'm saying is this Mother's Day, give them a call. Do do you place the call. But also maybe gift them an aura picture frame for the moments when you're not able to pick up aura frames.

[Griffin Newman]

Aura frames was named the best digital photo frame by Wirecutter since featured in 495 gift guides last year. That's a very specific and large number.

[Josh Gondelman]

So close to 500 really irked them.

[Griffin Newman]

So the next time you need to call your mom, you can also send her a new pic.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's what you can do.

[Griffin Newman]

You can be like, hey, guess what I did? I went to Macho Pichu Boink and put it on her frame.

[Josh Gondelman]

Here's a good idea. Because I did the. The folks at OR frame were nice enough to send over a couple samples. I got one here on my desk, but I also gifted one to my grandmother. And the next time she calls during a record, I should take a selfie of myself, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Being like, this is what I'm doing, this picture frame.

[Josh Gondelman]

Shop it right over. Ship it right over to that aura frame.

[Griffin Newman]

Aura has a great deal for Mother's Day. For a limited time, listeners can save on the perfect gift by visiting Oraframes.com to get a $35 off plus free shipping on their bestselling Carver Mat frame.

[Josh Gondelman]

The Carver Mat.

[Griffin Newman]

Very nice. That's a frames.com promo code. Check. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Ben Hosley]

Can we also talk about his apartment? The aesthetic of it?

[Griffin Newman]

It's so crazy.

[Ben Hosley]

It is kind of vaporwave, I have to say.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's very.

[Ben Hosley]

Just like white.

[Josh Gondelman]

He lives in a jazz club.

[Griffin Newman]

He. Well, but it's. I don't.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

It's.

[Ben Hosley]

It's almost like. It feels like Saved by the Bell coded. Does that make sense?

[David Sims]

It's like if. If Zack Morris wore a Scarface.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. There is a funny joke. I think maybe one of the few times where I did laugh out loud. He has, like, an apartment where multiple women who apparently live with him. Such a playboy.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes, yes.

[Ben Hosley]

The women are all wearing. They're very exposed, sexy. But he, the brother, does some kind of thing where he's like, no, I don't want to go to tits. I mean, college. You know, that kind of, like, thing. I think that's a funny little moment.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I like I'm going more fun.

[David Sims]

I like when we should go joke by joke.

[Josh Gondelman]

Say fun or funny when Johnny meets Mary Lou Henner.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

And he's like, oh, and you got these. And he looks down her breasts. And then he says, says, I like those in a woman.

[David Sims]

I like that joke, too.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a good joke.

[Josh Gondelman]

Here's another thing I think Heckerling gets. And this is a thing through, like, trying to watch through the full Keaton Filmography and for the first time really digging into these like non existent 80s and 90s comedies. Michael Keaton is an actor. You cannot like cover in close ups. He is a full body actor.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure, sure.

[Josh Gondelman]

So much about like his weird convulsions and like mannerisms and about how that interacts with the other person he's in the scene with. And like there is something classical enough about Heckerling's understanding of like comedy framing and timing where she's just really smart about like basically always shooting him from the waist up at least only giving him a close up. If it's sort of like a parody of an emotional revelation. But you want to watch like long since sustained two shots and like roving shots where you're watching him interact with shit in real time. Because the whole magic trick of Keaton is just like that he's got this broken metronome that he has the weirdest timing in the world and this sort of off rhythm and you need to see that engage with like other people in his space in real time. So there's even just shit like him coming into Maureen Stapleton's apartment saying, hey Ma, what you cooking? He says, beer.

[David Sims]

And he's stirring the fire and he.

[Josh Gondelman]

Goes, oh, with noodles. That's a good idea. And then like while she's talking and setting up plot stuff, he's in the background and he pulls down the clothes and all the laundry collapses on him like this sort of sustained, like. You want to watch Keaton just go through the sort of like mousetrap setup of these sets and the gags and everything.

[Ben Hosley]

I found it humorous.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm laughing, I'm laughing the whole time.

[David Sims]

I laugh. I laughed at. What are you cooking? Beer.

[Josh Gondelman]

Funny with noodles. Beer with noodles.

[Ben Hosley]

The runner of the mom always has a new weird sickness.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And the doctor strong as a bull, like on screen.

[David Sims]

Really?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

What did he say it would. She's. She didn't have saliva, like salivary gland. And Michael Keaton goes, it'll be good to see your spit again.

[Josh Gondelman]

Good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's good.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, I. I think this movie is like really good at parodying the sort of like weird sentiment of movies like that, you know, like parodying the emotional beats. I also think I'm trying desperately to remember where I heard this. And I feel like it was some podcast interview recently where someone with a background in comedy was talking about the difference between comedy and drama as an actor, which is a thing that people discuss a lot. And I thought this was one of the best ways I'd ever heard someone identify the difference, which was. I almost want to say this was connected to the SNL 50th, and it was some SNL cast.

[David Sims]

I feel like Alec Baldwin is always talking about this.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is what this person said.

[Griffin Newman]

Very normal.

[Josh Gondelman]

You guys watching the bald ones?

[Griffin Newman]

No, but I'm just hearing that it's normal.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's America's most normal. Tv.

[Griffin Newman]

People keep texting me, like, right. A clip from it where they're like, check out this normal clip of, like, a normal thing happening on that normal TV show to the normal guy doing.

[Josh Gondelman]

The accent kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

They were saying, whoever this is, and hopefully one of our listeners will find the interview. I'm thinking about that. Like, the fundamental thing is you want to play it real. In both cases, they were like, the difference between comedy and drama is that you still play it real, but you make those shifts a lot faster and a lot more dramatically, right? So it's like, in comedy, you might have to go from placid to, like, furious in one line. And you need to find the way to, like, earn that ramp up in a way that is unrealistic. And that is a thing I think Keaton is very good at. Like, he is so bizarre. He has so much energy that there's never anything in him, to me, that feels like he's pushing or reaching. Like, it's part of the magic of Beetlejuice, of just, like, this guy's somehow making it feel natural to be a ghost that changes voice six times in five words. Right. And similar. I think he's very well suited for this kind of comedy, which he didn't do a ton, where he has to, like, parody a leading man and do his kind of, like, somewhat ironic version of the actual emotional plotty scenes, but then swing to a big joke to go from, like, romantic to angry to tough to sensitive. It's. I. I think he's very, very good in this. I'm obviously just in the bag.

[Griffin Newman]

You love them so much.

[David Sims]

And I'll say this, Griffin and I are maybe overselling this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I do wonder, right, if people, like, now have to make the effort to find this. Right. Can't just, you know, fire it up.

[David Sims]

And I don't think. I don't think this is, like, a hidden treasure lost to history necessarily, but I was delighted the whole time watching it. I can count probably on one hand the number of jokes that I'm like, that doesn't work for me. And there are so many jokes, right? And so many of them worked, and. And so like the rhythm of the jokes I find so comforting. Yes, in a way. And like, even. Even the quality, like I watched like the rip on like whatever Internet archive and that being extra grainy and from vhs, I think maybe David, to your point, added to it because I was like, I can see that feels old timey. It doesn't feel like watching something new. And, and so it gives you that distance. Like when you watch a Marx Brothers movie. Not that it's at that level, but you go, this is a.

[Griffin Newman]

This is like new Marx Brothers movie, Josh.

[David Sims]

No, but it gives you. You're not like, oh, this is modern. And they're trying to be modern.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, you also. I think this movie is so lovingly made. It makes sense that this is a genre that Heckerling, like, grew up idolizing. And there's this part of like, well, maybe she couldn't. Like, she has too much of like an off kilter comedic sensibility to ever make a straight gangster movie. But by doing a parody, she's also able to actually get at everything she loves about gangster movies in a way where, like, it's. I feel like a lot of people talk about this being an issue in the Mel Brooks divide is like, he clearly loves westerns and Universal monster movies and Hitchcock films. By the time you get to Spaceballs, you're like, I don't think Mel Brooks cares about Star Wars. I think he has identified good bits to do within this, but I don't think it means anything to him in the same way as much as when he was riffing on movies that he grew up loving. And there is this aspect of like, oh my God, I can't believe I got them to build a castle and now I'm lighting it in black and white and like, all that sort of shit. And I think the Zuckers had a similar love for like, the kind of B trash that they would parody in Top Secret and Airplane and Naked Gun. Like, they love these kind of just like programmer genre movies.

[Griffin Newman]

I sent you the Alec Baldwin tweet. That's really funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay, let me look up the Alec Baldwin tweet. That's really funny.

[Griffin Newman]

So Johnny Dangerously. So we got Piscopo. Have we talked enough about Piscopo as Danny Verman? It's really funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

Can I read this out loud?

[Griffin Newman]

I think you can. I think you can. Because her accent is fake, so I think it's okay to parody it.

[Josh Gondelman]

Tweet is from at Charlie on here. Alec Colon. In 1983, I was hospitalized because my.

[Griffin Newman]

Roommate'S cat gave Me, an asthma attack.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm deathly allergic. Hilaria. Petting their five cats. Colon. My husband is so funny. I mean, that is a.

[Griffin Newman]

The vibe of the show. Is that the vibe?

[Josh Gondelman]

That is the A plot of episode two. The a of episode two is being like, you know, our life is crazy nine months out of the year. We live in a giant 15 bedroom Manhattan apartment. It's too small. We can't all fit. Their apartment has stairs. And it's this constant thing of like, we love the city so much. We're staying in this tiny apartment. I'm like, I'd love for you to talk to some of my friends.

[David Sims]

You've never met a person.

[Griffin Newman]

In his defense, he does have countless.

[David Sims]

Children, but that's also. That's recent.

[Griffin Newman]

I know, I know, I know. I. I can't explain that problem that.

[David Sims]

They brought on themselves.

[Josh Gondelman]

Correct.

[David Sims]

Since the start of the pandemic.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

They also have like four cats and four dogs. Right? And he's like, when I first moved to la, my agent let me stay on her couch and she had three cats and I got sent to the hospital. I'm deathly allergic. And now we have four cats. And the A plot of this episode is it's the weekend where we go from the city to the Hamptons.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course, he lives in the Hampton. Hamptons in the summertime or whatever.

[Josh Gondelman]

We have to figure out the seating charts for the three vehicles that will transport the two of us are seven kids, our eight pets, and two nannies. The nannies are referenced a lot. Are never seen on screen, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

I just like to think about, like, the sort of the guy who has to produce this show. Right? Like the guy whose job it is to like, film this.

[Josh Gondelman]

Looking up the credits here, a Satan.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, right.

[Josh Gondelman]

Beelzebub.

[Griffin Newman]

But like, just like the guy who's like, I, you know, I went to film school, you know. Now he's just like, how do we craft a narrative out of. Well, I guess this week we'll do the. You think the cars to the Hamptons will be the a. I think his.

[David Sims]

Agent called and was like, how do you feel about getting yelled at a lot.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. Baldwin just keeps saying, don't put me in a car with the cats. And hilarious. Like, let's see how the seing chart shakes out. And then you see her drawing it and it's like a car. Alec. And then like four little cartoon.

[David Sims]

He's like, trying to murder her husband.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna have a. Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

She's like, please, I'm gonna Repeat it. Don't put the cats in the car. And she's like, there are a lot of moving pieces. I don't know how things are gonna land. And then it comes to him in the car.

[Griffin Newman]

So this sounds like pretty good tv. I just like the whole premise of the show is him being like, I need money. I need so much money. I have so many children. I need money right now. And someone's like, do you want to sell your spleen? And he's like, maybe. I don't know. Do you want to look at it like this? The who?

[David Sims]

50 bucks, I'll. You look at my spleen.

[Josh Gondelman]

But then half of every episode is him weighing the death of this horrible.

[Griffin Newman]

Truly horrible thing that happened to him that I don't really want to make light of or even really, you know, think about.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's why.

[Griffin Newman]

And it didn't just happen to him.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Obviously, he was like. But. But still, like, it's. It must be a horrible thing for him to have to.

[Josh Gondelman]

But the show is trying to simultaneously be John and Kate plus eight and the Staircase. That's what's insane about it, is half of every episode is him, like, struggling from PTSD and being like, I have to go back to court. And it's not, like an offhand reference. It's, like, deeply invested. And then wacky music plays, and it's like, here I am in the car with the cats. It's the most deranged TV show that's ever existed. Giant, dangerously. The great American comedy.

[Ben Hosley]

Where are we left? Where have we left off?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

The kid. The kid went. The brother went to law school. He's now the. The assistant D. A working under Danny DeVito, the corrupt D. A, of course, fun.

[Josh Gondelman]

Who has a crush on Johnny.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that. That's like a weird little moment. Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

I mean, look, we talk about this, but basically, any comedy you watch from 1980 to 2012 for sure has some level of homophobic.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Gay panic.

[Josh Gondelman]

And I'm like, this actually registers about as low on the scale as these movies do.

[David Sims]

It's the Greek accent of homophobia.

[Josh Gondelman]

It is. Is. It is like, the joke is just sort of like, I wouldn't have expected that guy is gay, but is almost kind of dumb without judgment. I'm not forgiving it, but it feels like the least critical. Whereas, like, there's no sort of, like, recoiling in Ooh. To this, but Peter Boyle survives multiple assassination attempts, comedically decides to step down. You have the robot Dimitri. You have his toilet being exploded. I like him holding. Ben is smiling. You have to admit, this is a funny bit. He's got the chain handle and he thinks it's his dork, as he puts it. And then once he realized his penis is still intact, he decides it's time to retire and hand it over to Johnny, which is sort of where things escalate. Now his brother has gotten out of law school.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. The conflict is his brother on one side, Piscopo on the other. He's got a ride.

[Josh Gondelman]

He's become the king looking for the crown.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right.

[David Sims]

Good, good use of the one. PG13F word.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Josh Gondelman]

What is the one again?

[Griffin Newman]

Because of course they say fark a lot.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, sure.

[David Sims]

The bird goes to the parrot.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

You missed face.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, that's like.

[David Sims]

That's fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So what's funny? Then there's the, I don't know, lucky cigarette case. It's always protecting people. That's kind of a running bit.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. It's also, I mean, is. Is kind of the. The plot device of how they know how to identify. I mean, it ultimately absolves him of.

[David Sims]

The crime because Danny Verman has taken the cigarette case, which smells like gum because Johnny doesn't smoke. And he's using. That is his marker as he's now the kingpin.

[Josh Gondelman]

But I also. I like. Like DeVito's bribery scene being done. Like Price is Right. Like him unveiling the options of how he can be bribed on the stage.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right. That's funny. DeVito's funny. Generally he plays the sort of crooked DA who hires Griffin Dunn and doesn't want him to do his job.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. Dies in a horrible bull accident because he's handed a red jack.

[David Sims]

That must be a parody of something specific. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like a.

[David Sims]

It must be a malt liquor commercial.

[Griffin Newman]

Such a complicated joke. The bull.

[David Sims]

And he says, death by commercial. That was the. The.

[Josh Gondelman]

Oh, you're right.

[David Sims]

The newspaper. There must have been a commercial because he says, what are you drinking? And he says, malt liquor. And then he's holding this red smoking jacket and a bull runs into the.

[Griffin Newman]

Bar and gores him to death.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm wondering if it's a Billy Dee Williams Colt 45 thing, because that. That would have been the time of that campaign.

[Griffin Newman]

I was trying to find something about this, but I can't.

[David Sims]

I was a little mystified by it. Although I did think the setup was funny.

[Griffin Newman]

It is a parody of Schlitz malt liquor commercials featuring Richard Roundtree.

[Josh Gondelman]

Interesting. Shaft himself.

[Griffin Newman]

Shaft himself. Which. Where. Right. Like a bull would crash through the wall when you ordered a Schlitz. Yeah, I mean, I'm watching one right now, and there's a bull. No one does it like the bull.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's funny because it's the, like, tagline, right? That's a gag where you're like, I don't quite get the setup here.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. Him going, what am I drinking? Malt liquor? I think that must mean it's one.

[Josh Gondelman]

Of the only things in this movie that feels, like, specific to the era in which it was made. Is not, like, kind of a timeless gag.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it ever a good idea to do a commercial parody in a movie?

[David Sims]

In a movie?

[Griffin Newman]

I'm trying to think.

[Josh Gondelman]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, no, right? No, I mean, like, you can do, like, the Wayne's World thing of, like, parodying the notion of commercial. Right? Like, of the talking to camera kind of thing.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But, yeah, I.

[Josh Gondelman]

In. In the wake of the great Gene Hackman's death, I watched no Way Out, a blind spot in his career I'd never seen before. Young Costner vehicle. And that has the crazy sex scene where Kevin Costner cannot wait to get home to have sex with Sean Young. So they fuck in the back of a limo, and the limo driver is like, whoa. And Costner's like, thumbs up. You like what you see? Kind of. And they just go really far in the back of the limo. And I was watching and I was like, holy. This is what Hotshots part. Duh, is parodying.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, many years later, you. You see the original, right?

[Josh Gondelman]

And that was a scene I had just always found funny for decades and was like, yeah, this is just insane for a guy to. In the back of a limo while this guy's here. Like, it worked not being a parody. And. And then I watch it and I'm like, hot shots is only, like, heightening this 10%, but versus this. You're watching and you're like, I know this is referencing something that I don't have.

[David Sims]

If it hadn't been for the malt liquor and the death by commercial on the newspaper, if he had just held up a smoking jacket and then a bull came in, I would have been like, that's a funny long way around way to assassinate someone.

[Josh Gondelman]

No, but you're right. I didn't even ping. Like, oh, this must be something I'm not getting. I was just sort of like, ah, can't win them all. Giant dangerously taking a lot of shots.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm glad we solved that Schlitz mystery, actually. That is interesting. Yeah, I Don't know.

[Ben Hosley]

The brother gets married. He's so horny.

[David Sims]

He.

[Ben Hosley]

He wants to. In the janitor's closet, but he overhears that his brother is. Johnny Damon has just put it together.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, right.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And then he runs out.

[Ben Hosley]

And then the janitor shows up and that just.

[David Sims]

I don't know, Another weird little moment.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. But they basically make the deal, like, you know, Griffin Dunn's like, I'm not gonna rest until I put you in jail. And then they have their sort of fistfight bargain and Johnny takes the fall. And then is like, I'm gonna go clean.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I'll go legit.

[Josh Gondelman]

I'll go legit.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

So then the rest of the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

The last half an hour, boys to go legit.

[Josh Gondelman]

How does Johnny get out? Right, right. While also Piscopo is trying to stage a coup and wants him dead.

[Griffin Newman]

And you've got funny stuff, or I should say more like fun stuff. Like Piscobo cutting the brakes on Gryffindone's car.

[David Sims]

That seems kind of fun, her writing his name.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, that. That happens earlier.

[Griffin Newman]

That's earlier.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, that's earlier. That's at the beginning of his career.

[David Sims]

Afterwards, Johnny is framed for the murder of, like, the head of.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Because that's right before devito dies. That's right. Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's the beginning of Griffin Dunn's career.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. The sort of last half hour. Right. Is like, you know, Johnny being like, I'm innocent. And there's. We were building to the big fight at the movie theater.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes. I mean, I think one of the gags in this movie that does not work is the Irish janitor lady who speaks entirely in actual slurs. It is more jarring because you have a really good bit of a guy who says curse words incorrectly. And you're so used to that. And then in the last 20 minutes, you're introduced to a character who just speaks in like, unbroken slur chain. But I do like her later scene with Maureen Stapleton where Maureen Stapleton tries to appeal to her because she ends up being the one witness who can, like, support the case and is like, look, we have a lot in common. I also love, like, the degree to which Johnny is, like, idolized and respected when he finally goes to jail that, like, the warden is so thrilled to have him there and he's high fiving everyone. He has the line where he's like, pops, you're still in here.

[David Sims]

But also his father is not dead after all.

[Josh Gondelman]

That Johnny has somehow immediately made the gangster version of the Prison uniform that he has the high collar. David is very seriously mulling over whether or not these jokes are funny.

[David Sims]

Exonerates.

[Josh Gondelman]

He.

[David Sims]

They. They exonerate him.

[Griffin Newman]

I think I was mo. I was really losing steam in the last act of this movie.

[Josh Gondelman]

I like the Ray Walston bit.

[Griffin Newman]

What's the Ray Walston bit?

[Josh Gondelman]

He's a blind newspaper man.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I did like that bit. And then he.

[Josh Gondelman]

He gets hit with a stack of newspapers.

[Griffin Newman]

His vision's bad, unblinded, but is now dead. Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

And then the third stack is. I can see and I can hear, but who am I?

[Griffin Newman]

Which he's funny. And I do like her. Right. Giving a little high five to a, you know, a Fast Times cast member. Like, it's nice to see him.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

And. And Vincent Scavelli's in here very briefly as well. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

He would have been a good goon. Like, get him up higher in the cast list.

[Josh Gondelman]

I agree.

[David Sims]

Should we explain the Joe Piscopo bit that we've alluded to seven or eight times?

[Josh Gondelman]

It's so simple, but I just find it very effective. And it's just Piscopo playing it with full intensity.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Which is anytime someone does something that he finds disrespectful, he says a blank did blank to me once, takes a beat, and then goes once, holding up the one finger.

[David Sims]

My. My favorite iteration was hung on the hook.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Michael Keaton picks him up and hangs him on a coat hook on a door and slams the door and he goes, my. I forget what father. My grandfather hung me on a hook once, and I was like, that's good.

[Josh Gondelman]

The specificity of everything has happened to him one time.

[Griffin Newman]

This is. Right. It's like, is Piscopo funny? No. But does he have kind of like, some gravitas in a way? Is that why he succeeded?

[Josh Gondelman]

This is where I give Piscopo credit. I don't think that joke is funny on paper. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what I'm saying.

[Josh Gondelman]

If I read this in the script.

[Griffin Newman]

Or it's like a little funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

I think a lot of these jokes I would find find funny on the page and then are performed. Well, that's when I'd be like, you guys are really reaching for a running bit for this guy.

[David Sims]

Four or five times on paper.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's not funny. And I think Piscopo is putting a degree of gravitas on it that does make it work for me. Where, like, his increasing intensity with his sort of, like, haunted threat of don't let this happen again, and then it just Builds to like. He keeps getting interrupted before he gets to finish the sentence. I. I wanted to pull up the exact line when Marie Stapleton goes to appeal to the janitor. She. She says, we have nothing in common. What do I have to talk to you about? And Maureen Stapleton says, we have a lot in common. We both scrub floors, we're both swell lookers, and neither one of us is Chinese. I think that's a funny line.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, that's pretty funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

David's really. I'm winning him over in this one.

[Griffin Newman]

But I. I now feel like I'm being a scold about this movie that I, like, thought was enjoyable. I just could immediately tell why I was like, why I haven't heard of this movie. You know what I mean? Where I'm like, amy Heckerling made a gangster comedy with Michael Keaton. Why haven't I heard of that? I can understand why I maybe didn't get to see it. But, like, why don't I know about that?

[Josh Gondelman]

I get, why wasn't it because it's a movie made for weird doors.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

But I had always thought it had more of a, like, oh, that's like, an interesting, like, swing they took that just didn't work at all. Where. In rediscovering it for my big Keaton watch through last year, I was just so pleasantly surprised by how consistently funny I found it, and once again, watched it last night for the second time in six months and was still laughing out loud at it. And part of it is the pleasure of I watch all three Naked Gun movies every year like clockwork. Every year I'm like, it's time to check in and do the full Drebin trilogy. Right. There are jokes in those movies that, like, live in my brain forever that I think about on a daily basis. But there are so many jokes that I do just end up getting surprised by some of them every time. And like most great comedies, if you've seen them a bunch, you're like, oh, here's that bit I like. It is rare to have a movie that is this dense with jokes, which, if you find the jokes as funny as Josh and I do, this is a movie you can return to and be like, I forgot that one.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Josh Gondelman]

Because the bench is so deep.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. Which is why I love Airplane as well and, like, all those ZAZ comedies and stuff, because, right. There's always a new one that you're like, I haven't. I haven't given this one love recently.

[David Sims]

The heights also are not as high as Naked Gun and Airplane. I think that's the big thing where, like the. The one that feels like a home run. Swing is the testicle educational film. And you're like, swing and a.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like the iconic set pieces. But even just like this, I'm looking at the. I'm. I'm scrumming through the movie as we're watching. So I call out some of my favorite bits. But as we're talking. But the. The grapevine passing of the information that Vermin's big play is going to happen at the Savoy Theater. And the message is retained perfectly until the mumbling guy and then it's said to Johnny and he immediately corrects it.

[David Sims]

And then the girl goes, that's not what I said.

[Josh Gondelman]

And he goes, yeah, but I know this grapevine that.

[Griffin Newman]

That. That is pretty funny.

[David Sims]

The. The nodding.

[Josh Gondelman]

The.

[David Sims]

All the gangsters nodding and then one guy going, no more nodding. It's like this. The. Just the speed and density. It's like a lot of singles and doubles, which is like. It is some. That is a tone that I love and miss. And it's done lovingly and not cynically. Like, it's not like, not another war movie or whatever. Those.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, not another war movie is one they never attempted. No, that would be interesting.

[Josh Gondelman]

Freebergen Saltzer, come back. We're ready to tackle Private Ryan, 1917.

[Griffin Newman]

They're like, no, no, we're not even doing that. We're doing all those, like, Iraq movies nobody liked were doing like, Stop Loss, the.

[David Sims]

Yeah, anything. Wahlberg.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, the whole Wahlberg. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Not another Marky Mark movie would be kind of funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. Freeberg Salzer could Berg Wahlberg.

[David Sims]

You would have to observe the Wahlberg things so keenly.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, this is. Right. This is the thing about talking about this as a dying art form. Right. I think it was with our. Our. Our. Our text are with the doughboys. Mitch sent us a scene from the end of Epic Movie and was like. Or maybe even Anderson sent it to me and was like, I'm obsessed with this. This is insane. And we watched it and we were all like, this is really fucking funny. But is it funny now? Because we're so deprived of these types of movies that even seeing reminder of the worst example from 15 years ago now feels refreshing. Or does this almost work as its own? Out of content text, anti comedy.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm looking at the Wikipedia. Apparently Epic movie ends with Borat. Or are you not talking about that part?

[Josh Gondelman]

I'm talk. I'm sorry. I'm talking about disaster movie which ends With a parody of I'm Matt Damon. It is a parody of a comedy sketch.

[Griffin Newman]

Apparently the Guru Shitka is involved.

[Josh Gondelman]

Hellboy is in it.

[David Sims]

This. I think this is tipping towards anti comedy.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it is, but like, apparently chipmunks get crushed to death by a cow now.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

This doesn't sound funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

This is what's funny.

[David Sims]

This doesn't even sound fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Doesn't even sound fun.

[Josh Gondelman]

We're gonna post this on social media. Okay. What's funny about it is I think if you've seen the full movie, which I have not, this is just like lazily calling back every pop culture character that's existed in the movie up until that point. If you only watch this one scene out of context, you just cannot guess who's coming next because you're just like, oh, terrible puppets of the Chipmunks. And then it switches to, like, Hancock. You know, like all these things. Like, the randomness of it is just genuinely kind of shocking because you're seeing all these characters for the first time if you haven't watched the movie. But it is just recognition comedy. Right? It is done with no point of view. They are not, like, approximating the things they're parodying. Well, so much of the Friedberg Seltzer thing was like, they had trailers out parodying scenes from trailers for movies that hadn't come out yet. Like, they were like, our movies coming out in August, Hancock's coming out in July. We need to parody Hancock. So they would just parody the trailer scene so that they could strike while the iron was so hot. So this is like, you don't even have a real frame of reference for what you're parodying. And that's like the worst end of it. Right? And I feel like the doughboys always talk about, like, why the parody movie die. The comedy movie died as a bigger thing, a thing we've talked about a lot. The parody movie feels like a thing that is really tricky to imagine ever coming back again because it feels like this kind of thing has become such a, like, short form comedy based fucking.

[Griffin Newman]

Macro culture, which doesn't exist as much. And it was murdered. You're saying someone killed it?

[David Sims]

I think so.

[Griffin Newman]

By, like, Freedberg Seltzer?

[Josh Gondelman]

I really think so. But I also think, like, you had, like, SNL could parody things and you'd have, like, shows that didn't last as long, like the Ben Stiller show that could do, like, more cinematic parodies. But the idea of doing these things with, like, a proper movie budget was rare and hard. You'd get Like MTV Movie Awards segments and Oscar openings and like that. But now, like, SNL has this, like, film unit that can turn stuff out so fast. Not to mention, like, the rise of websites like CollegeHumor and Funny or Die that were also doing what if Blank was a horror movie instead? And doing it with reasonably good production value and with good actors where just, like, the idea of, oh, you need to string, like, 40 of these together to justify it being feature length versus, like, why wouldn't we just do one five minute sketch of this?

[David Sims]

I mean, Key and Peele, right, is another touchstone for, like, correct. Outstanding genre parody with great attention to detail.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. It was like the standards of doing this on TV and the Internet. There became so many more places that did them, and it became a lot easier for them to do it well, where the idea of having to go to the movies to see this makes no sense. Especially when the movie versions of it happening simultaneously were dog. I do find it interesting that, like, we have the Naked Gun reboot coming out this summer.

[David Sims]

Who's Drebin?

[Josh Gondelman]

Liam Neeson is Drebben.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is very fun.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Which feels like the smart. Like, the Liam neeson thriller of 2025 is the equivalent of the kind of cop procedural show that Naked Gun was parodying at the time. Time It's Akiva Schaefer directing it. Who is the right guy to do that at the time we are recording this. It has no trailer. It has an August theatrical release date that I'm hoping stays and does not go to streaming.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, God.

[Josh Gondelman]

Pamela Anderson is playing the Priscilla Presley equivalent. Paramount has it and they just announced that the Matt Stone, Tray Park, Kendrick Lamar movie is going to Paramount Plus.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Which I'm just, like, so desperate for, like, a live action comedy, pure comedy, to be released in theaters and make some amount of money. I want to believe, perhaps naively, that if there was a movie that came out with the right people attached that was actually funny, everyone would go. As much as I complain about the lack of successful theatrical comedies, there isn't an obvious thing in the last seven years where I'm like, that was put in theaters and no one went.

[David Sims]

All my favorites of the recent years I thought were, like, maybe a little too niche to have that breakout. Totally love Dick's the Musical had a great time, but, like, I understand why that did not gross $100 million.

[Josh Gondelman]

A24 had their, like, getting behind Julio and, like, Dick's the Musical and, like, trying to do the smaller can we build this up? Kind of thing. But it's like Naked Gun. Feels like there's a moment here for this to be recaptured.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite comedies recently, you know, Free Guy, sure.

[Josh Gondelman]

Wolfs, the Family Plan, the Man From Ohio.

[Griffin Newman]

I googled comedy movies of the 2020 and were trying to find the most cursed answers.

[David Sims]

Really. It, like, hurt. Hurts my feelings to hear you.

[Josh Gondelman]

There have also been good ones that got, like, punted to streaming.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, for sure.

[Josh Gondelman]

Eurovision Barbour Star is. I mean, Barbara Star and Palm Strings were supposed to go theatrical. Got by the Pandemic.

[Griffin Newman]

Same with the King of Staten island, which is less good than those movies. But, you know, that was supposed to be a theater movie.

[Josh Gondelman]

But the Naked Gun thing, I'm just like, if that were good, it feels like it is correctly positioned at the right moment to make people go like, oh, right, this is fun.

[Griffin Newman]

People like comedies. Dude, One of Them Days just did really good. Like, people will go see a comedy.

[Josh Gondelman]

One of Them Days is so good.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Like, it's like people go see a comedy.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

No Hard Feelings. Obviously did pretty good. You know, a couple years ago, I.

[Josh Gondelman]

Feel like I'm all.

[David Sims]

Two movies that I would describe as.

[Josh Gondelman]

Very fun at the time we're recording this. One of Them Days is the third highest grossing film of the year. And I just feel like there has not been a lot of talk of studios being like, oh, we should make like 10 of these a year. I think this Movie costs under $10 million.

[Griffin Newman]

There's talk. Talk.

[David Sims]

There is. There is. I mean, they were really great. Kiki Palmer and says are both really funny. Fantastic. The Cat Williams scenes, really funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's. It's all good. Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what Cat Williams is really good in?

[David Sims]

What's that, Norbit. Really?

[Josh Gondelman]

That one's kind of good and everything.

[Griffin Newman]

He's really funny in Norbit. The whole joke in Norbit is that he and Eddie Griffin are former pimps who then start to run a legitimate business, but they start to run it like pimps because they can't stop being pimps.

[David Sims]

Extremely of an era where, like, pimp was kind of a cultural reference of, like, a cool guy with a hat. Yeah. Big hat.

[Griffin Newman]

Wearing, like, a red or blue suit.

[David Sims]

Women like him by his. By their own volition.

[Josh Gondelman]

I mean, Cat Williams entire early career was, is this guy a pimp or not?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Is he implying that he used to be or is still? Currently, I'm like, very close to pulling the trigger on Katt Williams at the Barclay center next weekend. From the time we're recording what's.

[Griffin Newman]

What's the Day Cry for help.

[Josh Gondelman]

By the time this episode comes out, I will have gone. Or not. It is March 22nd. Are you interested?

[David Sims]

I am not disinterested.

[Josh Gondelman]

We can talk off Mike. Okay, here's what I was gonna say. There have been a couple other spoof movies announced in development, but I do find it fascinating that all of them are taking the same approach. Which is let's reboot the legacy spoof movie brand.

[David Sims]

What are the other ones?

[Josh Gondelman]

They announced that the Wayans brothers are coming back to school.

[David Sims]

Scary movie. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, I'm a little anxious about that, but yes.

[David Sims]

Same. Because I. I think again, those. The first one I remember really enjoying as a young person. Yeah. And then I think they became kind of those pastiche things of like.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right.

[David Sims]

The. You just have to have seen 14 movies to understand what's funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

So they only did the first two, but two is already becoming that. That and is was made on such a celebrated timeline that it is like parodying the stuff from six months earlier. And then David Zucker takes over from that point. But. Right. That's the big deal is like they're coming back for the first time since two. And then I have heard things about Hot Shots. Which kind of makes sense to do a Hot Shots Lego sequel that is parodying Maverick.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

And I feel like there is one.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like they needed to do that right away. That's already kind of receding.

[Josh Gondelman]

There's another one I'm forgetting.

[David Sims]

When you have high standards and fancy.

[Griffin Newman]

All the fancy things like a Dior saddlebag or that diamond tennis bracelet, you go to ebay.

[David Sims]

There you'll find new loves that will never disappoint.

[Josh Gondelman]

Expertly authenticated.

[David Sims]

Whether it's that vintage pearl necklace or.

[Griffin Newman]

Brand new ruby earrings, a Prada crossbody.

[David Sims]

Bag, or classic watches like that Rolex Oyster or that Cartier tank.

[Josh Gondelman]

On ebay, there are no limits to your high standards.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. EBay.

[David Sims]

The place for.

[Griffin Newman]

For new pre loved vintage and rare fashion.

[David Sims]

EBay things people love.

[Griffin Newman]

Johnny Dangerously. You know, Vermin gets arrested, governor pardons Johnny. Everything works out.

[Josh Gondelman]

Have a little fun with it. David.

[Griffin Newman]

Big sequence in front of the movie theater screen.

[David Sims]

I like the shot of him falling through the screen.

[Griffin Newman]

That's cool.

[David Sims]

That's fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that the Roaring twenties that they're watching? I can't remember which movie it is. One of those, he says the big shootout on the steps. The film having to change the disguise.

[Josh Gondelman]

Of the car and their costumes ripping off the car like it's wallpaper.

[Ben Hosley]

The shelf paper.

[David Sims]

Which is like so funny. Why they made that tight. Why? They referenced shelf paper earlier.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

To seed like I love shelf paper. And then they're using it to camouflage like intentionality.

[Josh Gondelman]

Like this movie is like holistically like building its bits for maximum impact later.

[Griffin Newman]

Film got bad reviews.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Jenna Maslin says it that heckling brought a sense of fun. Fun and sort of. Yeah, you know what, she did say that. But she found the movie wound down as it went along, eventually descending to a lowest common denominator of dopey adolescent gags. But she was like medium on it. But most others did not like the movie. And it opened somewhat confusingly Christmas time.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, 1984 is very bizarre.

[Griffin Newman]

And it made $3 million at the domestic box office in its opening weekend. It did make it to 17.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

So on a nine million dollar budget, it basically, you know, like broke even. Ish.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't want to spoil the box office game, but there's something important about the box.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay, well, I'm excited, but I do think this is that kind of like follow up movie where everyone's like crossing their arms and going like, see Amy, you should have just stuck to your thing. Like, why did you say no to all those scripts we sent you?

[Griffin Newman]

Do you want to do the box office?

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, let's do it. I'm very curious.

[Griffin Newman]

What Christmas time, December 21st, 1984.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's opening number nine at the box office. So it's not in the top five. What's number one at the box office? A huge comedy.

[Josh Gondelman]

Something interesting is happening.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of.

[Josh Gondelman]

Beverly Hills cup is number one.

[Griffin Newman]

That's correct. And as Amy Heckerling said, I was so depressed when the movie came out. My ex boyfriend had a movie come out that day too called Beverly Hills off. And his she's wrong that it came out that day. It had been out for a couple weeks. But the point is beaten at the box office. And his feeders were full and mine were empty and I was just so miserable. As we covered on our Martin Breast episode, they. Those two had a thing when they were young.

[Josh Gondelman]

I at film school at fi. I thought I saw Martin Breast in one of the scenes. I don't think he is credited, but there is a one line roll and now I want to see if I can find it. I almost want to say it's in the courthouse that I could have sworn was young Marty.

[Griffin Newman]

Not seeing anything in particular as I Google it, but I don't know. But so Beverly Hills Cop is number one. Beverly Hills Cop. Do you like Beverly Hills Cop? Josh.

[David Sims]

I find it. This might be controversial fun.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, I would sort of agree that it is actually such a plotty movie and it's like kind of a straightforward cop movie, that it is less about the laugh out loud stuff, but.

[David Sims]

And it really runs on Eddie Murphy's charm. It. I also kept waiting for a twist, and it's like, nope, we know it's the bad guy. We go right at him.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is.

[Josh Gondelman]

Although I do kind of appreciate that. It's just like, this guy sucks and he is right about him and he's just gathering the evidence to back up.

[David Sims]

The case, which I just. I like, assumed it was a slightly different kind of movie, but it's like, it is very fun. Very fun.

[Josh Gondelman]

But it is weird to watch today, as much as I love it and be like, that movie, like, shattered the culture.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. Like people were losing their minds and you're like, it is a pretty standard cop movie. That one guy is just, like, wheeling into being funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Number two at the box office is another film we have covered on this podcast quite recently.

[Josh Gondelman]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a science fiction film.

[Josh Gondelman]

The science fiction film.

[Griffin Newman]

A bit of a disappointment. Is it now for two weeks, the.

[Josh Gondelman]

Motion picture Dune, Dude. There's an interesting. I mean, the AFI mafia of like, Stuart Kornfeld, Breast Heckerling, connecting to lynch and Brooks. There's just. We're building a little bit of a constellation.

[Griffin Newman]

We're. We're in the mid-80s right now. Although Heckerling will be. You know, we'll be moving forward. But yes, Number three. So we've covered a lot of these because, like, we've done these box offices recently. So Number three is a buddy crime comedy film that was sort of a flop with two major movie stars.

[Josh Gondelman]

Is this the one? I feel like someone texted us about this recently that we didn't give it enough attention. It's not the Fortune, which I feel like is what I guessed last time. Is it the Kirk Douglas one?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Josh Gondelman]

What's that one called?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[Josh Gondelman]

Puff Guys?

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Josh Gondelman]

That's not Wise guys. Maybe it was a bit of a flaw.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know what you're talking about, because I'm talking about this movie here.

[David Sims]

David tapping out with Ben, listening to stories about Weird Al Force.

[Griffin Newman]

Film's called My Bologna. No, it's. Come on. It's Burt Reynolds and Clint. And Clint Eastwood. It's a movie called City Heat. It's a big disappointment. Throwbacky, kind of similar to Johnny Dangerous. There are two throwbacky guys in Hat Movies, you know, like, it's like, come on. And then number four is an ambitious science fiction film that we've covered on our patreon. A sequel.

[Josh Gondelman]

2010.

[Griffin Newman]

2010 20. The year we make contact. So it's like, hey, kids, do you want to see flawed, ambitious sci fi or, like, goofy gangster shit? Yeah, or fucking. They're like, well, let's go see Beverly Hills Cop.

[David Sims]

They weren't gonna go see Beverly Hills.

[Griffin Newman]

Copper number five at the box office. You could also see this. It's a film that had actually come out in 1940, but is currently in theaters.

[Josh Gondelman]

Gone with the Wind.

[Griffin Newman]

No. The kids film.

[Josh Gondelman]

Wizard of Oz.

[Griffin Newman]

Animated film.

[Josh Gondelman]

Snow White. No, no, that's. That's in the 30s, if I believe.

[Griffin Newman]

It is Disney's second film.

[Josh Gondelman]

So then is it Pinocchio?

[Griffin Newman]

Pinocchio.

[David Sims]

Beverly Hills Cop. I'm sorry to. To digress from Pinocchio, but Beverly Hills Cop being number one while Johnny Dangerously is number nine kind of underscores the Murphy Piscopo dynamic there.

[Josh Gondelman]

I wasn't even thinking about that part of it. You're like, Murphy is like breaking records as the star of the movie and Piscopo is bombing as, like, the funny villain.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So that's your top five. You've also got Starman, another film we've covered. You've got a new entry that's opening above Johnny Dangerously called Protocol, which is a Goldie Hawn comedy written by Buck Henry about a cocktail waitress who gets sucked into, like, an assassination plot or something.

[Josh Gondelman]

Sounds like something she would do. Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

You've got the Cotton Club, Francis Ford Coppola's big epic flop.

[Josh Gondelman]

It's a lot of things flopping. I mean, I feel like when we.

[Griffin Newman]

Do these fucking Beverly Hills.

[Josh Gondelman]

I was gonna say, I feel like when we do these earlier Poppins, it felt like a healthier time at the Cineplexes, where multiple movies could be succeeding simultaneously. And this is a rare example of, like, Beverly Hills Cop is just sucking up all the oxygen in the room.

[Griffin Newman]

You've also got, opening at number 10 new this week, a little sequel called Breakin 2.

[Josh Gondelman]

Electric Boogaloo.

[David Sims]

A movie remembered, I think, as a meme.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Movie remembered for its. Yes, for its subtitle only.

[Josh Gondelman]

I like when Johnny Break Dances in this movie.

[David Sims]

Like that too.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm seeing that the film received mostly negative reviews from critics.

[Josh Gondelman]

Interesting. Cowards.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Lucinda Dickey and Adolfo Shavadou Quinones and Michael Boogaloo Shrimp Chambers are the stars of that picture.

[Josh Gondelman]

Maybe you should start an asmr Channel, where you just list the cast of.

[Griffin Newman]

Break into like and just get like quieter and quieter.

[David Sims]

David names famous break dancers.

[Griffin Newman]

Also opening this week. There's a lot of flops. There's a movie called Mickey and Maude, which is a Blake Edwards, Dudley Moore, like mega bomb. And You've got a 20th Century Fox movie called the Flamingo Kid which stars Matt Dillon, a young Matt Dillon, Hector Elizondo. So as you know, Gary Marshall, he. Which is about, I don't know, some kind of Flamingo Kid. Oh, the interesting thing about the Flamingo Kid. Thank you.

[Josh Gondelman]

Is he like a kid who works at like a country club.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's the first film to get a PG13 rating, which is well been existed now. It was not the first released because a couple more had come out. It was the first that the MPAA certified with a Got it. And yeah, that's what's been in the box office when Johnny Dangerously comes out now. So the film doesn't do very well.

[Josh Gondelman]

Well, okay, I found who I think is Martin Breast and I'm going to screenshot it and I want to solve this mystery. But it's when Griffin Dun goes in for his first day at the DA's office and he has one throwaway line. And I feel very confident that is Marty Breast from. From us seeing cameos in his own.

[Griffin Newman]

I hear you. I just don't know and I can't.

[Josh Gondelman]

Prove this, but I just. I found the moment and I will screenshot it and it's a mystery to be solved later perhaps across our series. We'll see.

[David Sims]

I like, I think I like that you're transitioning to one of those podcasts that solves a mystery.

[Josh Gondelman]

I mean, look, we just got back from the Iheart Podcast Awards and those seem to be burning up the shots. We need more mystery. That's how this show started. Decade of Dreams. We were trying to solve what the Phantom Menace was about. We've lost the mystery angle. This show needs to go back to being a whodunit. And I'll tell you who done it. Amy Heckerling. She made a movie that is funny.

[David Sims]

I agree.

[Josh Gondelman]

Jokes.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, what do we think of her next movie? National Lampoon's European Vacation.

[Josh Gondelman]

I have never seen it. Yeah, you have been watching through the vacation movies for the first time, David.

[Ben Hosley]

Huh?

[Josh Gondelman]

Huge totemic series for you.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, I love Chevy.

[Josh Gondelman]

I feel like this is almost universally.

[Griffin Newman]

Nobody really likes this, right?

[Josh Gondelman]

It's like the least liked install.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone likes the first one in Christmas. This is the one people are less.

[Josh Gondelman]

Into and even, like, Vegas is out of steam. But I feel like people. I have heard people say my. My best friend growing up, Derek Simon, whose family loved the vacation movies were, like, european vacation is, like, noxious.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, the last time I watched it was 13. I remember having a good time.

[Griffin Newman]

Josh, do you have a vacation take or care for this film?

[David Sims]

They were movies. I think I saw Vacation and Christmas on tv. I remember wanting to see Vegas in theaters, but being a child had no agency to do so, so I missed it entirely. And it's also, like, one of those things where the more you hear about Chevy Chase, the less I'm like, I gotta go watch his old stuff.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yes. Jumping ahead. It's just an interesting arc of, like, this movie that really puts her on the map that does okay at the time, but grows immediately. Right then her, like, swerving to something totally different that doesn't work. Then it's like, what's my safety net? Make a sequel to a hit with a big star. That is a sure thing. I think she views that as, like, a failure in her eyes, that she, like, didn't get the reins around that thing successfully, and it was obviously successful enough to keep the series going, but it's, like, the least love entry, which leads to her going into look who's Talking being like, I need an undeniable hit that everyone has to give me credit for. Like, I need a thing that is me that, like, they can't take away from me.

[Griffin Newman]

We'll talk about that next week, though.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. She successfully spawns her own franchise.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

A lot of her movies became TV shows, too.

[Josh Gondelman]

A lot. I mean, Clueless. Fast times. Look who's Talking becomes baby talk.

[Griffin Newman]

But they didn't make a Johnny Dangerously show.

[Josh Gondelman]

No, they did make a CSI Loser where, what, they. They investigate teenage dirt bags?

[David Sims]

They found him at the Iron Maiden concert.

[Josh Gondelman]

They talked about the Iron Maiden baby. Josh, thank you for being here.

[Griffin Newman]

Are we just good?

[David Sims]

David, is that song fun or is it funny?

[Josh Gondelman]

Guys, guys, truly, we cannot burn this here because it's gonna have to be half of our.

[Griffin Newman]

We're gonna need to do some real Wheatus digging.

[Josh Gondelman]

I. I think that might be the most Wes has ever been discussed on a podcast episode. Is our Le Loser episode coming in a few weeks? Josh, you're special.

[David Sims]

Someday, somewhere, hopefully out by now, it will be called. It is called Positive Reinforcement. Thank you so much for having me.

[Josh Gondelman]

You're the king of positive reinforcement. I mean, Twitter is now a hellscape, but it's a thing I always love that you would do where you just kind of post like, I have a free 45 minutes. Who needs positive reinforcement?

[David Sims]

I do it. I have a newsletter now that I do some pep talks in which. That's fine.

[Josh Gondelman]

Substack.

[David Sims]

We're substack. Oh, currently. And joshcondelman.substack.com it's called that's Marvelous, which of course cribbed from the Big Lebowski Philip Seymour Hoffman, Rest in peace. But it's pep talks and jokes and that's where all the Josh Gondolman related information is. I'm on Instagram and blue sky and whatever.

[Josh Gondelman]

I just love that people would say, like, I've had a rough day. Can you throw me something? And you would always be specific. It was never just like, I tried to cheer up. The weather's nice.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah. Have you heard a bird sing lately?

[Josh Gondelman]

Right. It was always like, this is weather. Well thought and considered. And if you didn't know someone, you would like, look at their profile and find the first thing you compliment them on. You're. You're a very genuine, kind, thoughtful person. The Johnny Dangerously of jokes. And by calling something the someone the Johnny Dangerously of blank.

[David Sims]

I mean fun more than funny.

[Josh Gondelman]

I was gonna say my highest compliment.

[David Sims]

Thank you.

[Josh Gondelman]

Yeah. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Next week we will be embarking upon a European vacation. Pack accordingly. And as always, we've recorded a Johnny Dangerously episode once. Once.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas and our associate producers, AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithey. Research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.

[Josh Gondelman]

Gaming this out I got two options and I'm just running it in my head. This movie has a lot of good lines.

[Ben Hosley]

I feel like you got to do one of those like one time name.

[David Sims]

Oh, I like that one.

[Ben Hosley]

I kind of like.

[Josh Gondelman]

Don't blow it. Don't blow it. Ben, you got Episcopal.

[Ben Hosley]

Is that his last name?

[David Sims]

Yeah, it is.

[Griffin Newman]

How do you not know his last name?

[Josh Gondelman]

Let's get into it.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry.

[Ben Hosley]

He hasn't stuck in my mind.

[Josh Gondelman]

Hey, save it for the mic. Ready?