The Hudsucker Proxy with Mike Mitchell & Nick Wiger

Summary

Episode Summary: Blank Check with Griffin & David – The Hudsucker Proxy with Mike Mitchell & Nick Wiger

Podcast Information

• Title: Blank Check with Griffin & David
• Hosts: Griffin Newman & David Sims
• Guests: Mike Mitchell & Nick Wiger
• Release Date: August 10, 2025
• Description: A deep dive into directors' complete filmographies, focusing on auteurs granted a 'blank check' by Hollywood to create passion projects. This episode explores the Coen Brothers' The Hudsucker Proxy with insights from fellow podcasters Mike Mitchell and Nick Wiger.

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Blank Check with Griffin & David, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims welcome Mike Mitchell and Nick Wiger from the Doughboys podcast to discuss the Coen Brothers' unconventional film, The Hudsucker Proxy. Produced by Ben Hosley, the conversation promises a blend of insightful analysis and humorous banter, capturing the essence of what makes this film a unique entry in the Coens' oeuvre.

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Guest Introductions

• Mike Mitchell: Co-host of Doughboys, known for his comedic take on bad movies and deep appreciation for film lore.
• Nick Wiger: Co-host of Doughboys, bringing sharp wit and a keen eye for film mechanics.

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Deep Dive into The Hudsucker Proxy

Plot Overview

The discussion begins with a brief synopsis of The Hudsucker Proxy, highlighting the journey of Norville Barnes (Tim Robbins) from a meek mailroom employee to the president of Hudsucker Industries, orchestrated by a mysterious blue letter.

• David Sims (00:13): "They punch in at 8:30 every morning... Without your employee number, you cannot get your paycheck."

This imitation of corporate jargon sets the tone for the film's satirical take on corporate America.

Themes and Analysis

Griffin Newman and the guests delve into the film's exploration of ambition, corporate manipulation, and the pursuit of the American Dream, all wrapped in the Coen Brothers' signature offbeat humor.

• Griffin Newman (05:12): "This is one of my favorite movies we will ever cover. It was love at first sight for me."

The hosts discuss how the film balances screwball comedy elements with darker undertones, creating a multifaceted narrative that critiques corporate greed while celebrating eccentricity.

Character Performances

Jennifer Jason Lee's portrayal of Amy Archer and Charles Durning's janitor provide focal points for the discussion on character development and performance nuances.

• David Sims (50:23): "I think she is the best performance in the movie."
• Griffin Newman (50:28): "She is certainly my nominee."

The guests highlight how Lee's seemingly exaggerated persona evolves into a more authentic character, underscoring the film's theme of personal transformation amidst corporate chaos.

Technical Excellence

Cinematography and score, crafted by Carter Burwell, receive commendations for their role in establishing the film's distinctive Art Deco aesthetic and nostalgic ambiance.

• Nick Wiger (85:01): "The Cohens don't have a particular inspiration, they say. Kind of a copper-esque thing. Golden Age of Hollywood."

The meticulous set designs, expansive buildings, and intricate miniature work are praised for their contribution to the film's immersive world-building.

Reception and Legacy

Despite its initial commercial failure, The Hudsucker Proxy has garnered a cult following over the years, appreciated for its unique storytelling and visual splendor.

• David Sims (133:34): "It is a movie that looks beautiful and is funny. It's a great movie."
• Nick Wiger (220:18): "Maybe there's one you're skipping over, but this one's worth watching."

The hosts reflect on how the film has been re-evaluated over time, cementing its status as a hidden gem within the Coen Brothers' filmography.

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Notable Quotes

• David Sims (01:32): "Let me clarify. This is one of my 10 favorite movies of all time."
• Griffin Newman (06:00): "This is so protective of this episode."
• Nick Wiger (99:03): "I think he's a superintendent version of the Harry Dean Stanton rule."

These quotes encapsulate the hosts' deep appreciation and analytical perspectives on the film, highlighting its enduring impact.

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Personal Insights and Anecdotes

Mike Mitchell and Nick Wiger share their personal connections to The Hudsucker Proxy, discussing how the film resonated with them and influenced their appreciation for the Coen Brothers' work.

• Mike Mitchell (05:18): "This is one of my top-tier rewatches. It's my ultimate comfort food movie."

Their anecdotes provide listeners with relatable insights into how The Hudsucker Proxy serves as a touchstone for enjoying quirky, character-driven narratives.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with unanimous praise for The Hudsucker Proxy, emphasizing its unique blend of humor, critique, and visual artistry. The hosts and guests agree that while the film may have been misunderstood upon release, its legacy as a beloved cult classic is well-deserved.

• Nick Wiger (220:18): "All the Coen Brothers movies are worth watching, and this one is no exception."
• Griffin Newman (220:22): "It's an amazing film within the Coens' universe."

Listeners are left with a renewed interest in revisiting The Hudsucker Proxy, encouraged by the heartfelt and thorough exploration provided by the hosts and their esteemed guests.

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Final Thoughts

Blank Check with Griffin & David successfully unpacks the layers of The Hudsucker Proxy, offering both critical analysis and personal appreciation. By featuring voices like Mike Mitchell and Nick Wiger, the episode enriches the conversation, making it a must-listen for fans of the Coen Brothers and aficionados of offbeat cinema.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[David Sims]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect.

[Griffin Newman]

All you need to know is that.

[David Sims]

The name of the shadow is Blackjack. You punch in at 8:30 every morning, except you punch in at 7:30 following a business holiday, unless it's Monday. Then you punch in at 8 o', clock, punch in late, and they podcast you. Incoming articles get a voucher. Outgoing articles provide a voucher. Move any article without a voucher and they podcast you. Letter size without a voucher. Letter size of green voucher, oversize a yellow voucher, Parcel size of maroon voucher. Wrong color voucher. And they podcast you. 678-704-9A6. That is your employee number. It will not be repeated. Without your employee number, you cannot get your paycheck. Inter office mail code is 37. Intra office mail 37. 3. Outside mail is 3 37. Code it wrong and they podcast you. This has been your orientation. Is there anything you do not understand? Is there anything you understand only partially? If you have not been fully oriented, you must file a complaint with personnel. File a faulty complaint, and they podcast you. And then in brackets underneath that line of dialogue spoken at 160 words per.

[Griffin Newman]

Minute, you know when you watch a screwball comedy on your modern television and you have the subtitles on, you know it's a screwball comedy. When the subtitles can't include all the.

[David Sims]

Dialogue, they have to cut out lines they're editing.

[Nick Weiger]

And just a note, if you're going.

[David Sims]

To scream, oh sure. After spending 30 minutes setting up level.

[Griffin Newman]

Just give me a heads up.

[Mitch]

Yeah, that guy.

[David Sims]

Maybe the most time we've ever spent perfecting levels before record. Then I immediately fucked it all up.

[Nick Weiger]

No, you're fine.

[David Sims]

You want to. Hey, you want to dock me?

[Griffin Newman]

I'll think about it.

[David Sims]

I made that sound sexual. I'm saying you can dock my pay.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think he thought it was sexual.

[David Sims]

Well, I just want docking.

[Griffin Newman]

When you like put your dicks together.

[Nick Weiger]

I think there is an actual sexual connotation for docking.

[David Sims]

Docking is when you put time, the head of one penis into it, first.

[Mitch]

Time into the foreskin of another.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's uncircumcised, right?

[Nick Weiger]

It needs circumcised.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you need one uncircumcised to be fair.

[David Sims]

Yeah, both could be uncircumcised. You just need at least.

[Griffin Newman]

But you need one. One docking station, essentially.

[David Sims]

Correct.

[Mitch]

Wike's biting his lip trying to get in the docking conversation.

[Griffin Newman]

That guy, the orienter actor's name is Christopher Darga. I just looked him up because I was like, who is that guy? He works all the time.

[David Sims]

There are.

[Griffin Newman]

He has like 10 credits a year on TV shows and stuff.

[David Sims]

There are like 30 people in this movie who have exactly one scene and I think give one of the greatest performances in the history of film.

[Griffin Newman]

The blue letter guy, huh?

[David Sims]

Musburger's secretary.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. The one who screams or the one who.

[David Sims]

I don't see an appointment in the books.

[Griffin Newman]

She was funny.

[David Sims]

Like, everyone is just like a great face, a great voice, a great rhythm. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite though is just like to get like two dozen bald, like middle aged guys who are just like, like, I love that.

[Nick Weiger]

Those, those guys are great.

[Griffin Newman]

So funny.

[Nick Weiger]

As far as stock characters go, though, my favorite is the.

[Griffin Newman]

The lady who kind of talks like this.

[Nick Weiger]

And this movie has so many of those ladies.

[Griffin Newman]

That is a good.

[Nick Weiger]

Or.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what I like when Hudsucker hits the ground.

[David Sims]

What you mean when the street is wearing Huds?

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. Yes. The lady who goes like, like, that's a good type of lady. Like a big lady in like a sort of fancy outfit with like a little thing on her head, you know, like a little net.

[Nick Weiger]

I think it's the same lady. I think they're just a different emotional point.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's good, good stuff.

[Nick Weiger]

God bless.

[David Sims]

Different types. Yeah. No, it's got a lot of ladies like this and a lot of guys like this.

[Mitch]

You backed away at the end.

[David Sims]

I did. I'm trying to be considerate towards Ben. There's the. The blue letter guy has two. It's the way he sells two specific words. It's the third time, I think he says blue letter when he tries to accentuate and go, a blue letter. And then he ends it with going, must be delivered to mus Burger.

[Griffin Newman]

Richard Schiff, the great Emmy winning actor, is in the cast as mailroom screamer. I didn't even notice.

[David Sims]

He must be a background screamer.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. But like to be credited as a screamer in Hudsucker, that feels good.

[David Sims]

This like the supporting. Not the supporting cast, but like all the day players in this movie feel like they were pulled out of a time machine. All the modern day actors who are recognizable, you're like, oh, that's like smart to think about a combination of people who would be able to approximate this old acting style and who had pieces of this in their modern screen Personas. And then every guy who's just like a face I've never seen before. I. My inclination is like, they got a fucking phone booth and they went back to the 30s and they pulled the guy off the Paramount lot, the guys at the fucking diner.

[Mitch]

It's great. I went into this movie, I had never seen it before. And so in the first 50 minutes, I was like, what the fuck is going on? Going on here? I had no idea. And just so many great. And like, at first I was like, is this over the top? Like, what is happening here? You were worried that I wouldn't like this movie.

[David Sims]

Let me clarify. This is one of my 10 favorite movies of all time.

[Mitch]

Wow.

[David Sims]

This is one of my favorite movies we will ever cover.

[Griffin Newman]

So is this your number one? Cohen's? Just not to spoil our, you know, list.

[David Sims]

I do not think it is their best film. And I think when we get to the end of this series, you'll be wrestling with. Actually ranked us at number one. There are better films I think they've made. And in a way where the distance between them is great enough that it would be absurd of me to put it higher. And yet I have seen this so many fucking times. Is one of my ultimate comfort food movies. I like it more every single time I watch it. It is a movie that is so squarely pitched at all of my interests, my sense of humor, my sensibility, my dream movie aesthetics, all of that. So I was just, like, very protective of this episode.

[Nick Weiger]

This is one of your rewatchables.

[David Sims]

This is one of my ultimate top tier rewatches.

[Griffin Newman]

Should we get Simmons on?

[Mitch]

We gotta get Simmons on.

[David Sims]

I'm also like, every.

[Nick Weiger]

John Mahoney is like Eddie House in this mov, raining threes off the bench.

[Griffin Newman]

He would have 10 minutes on Anna Nicole.

[Mitch]

You know, I agree with him. Daddy House thing is spot on.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I mean, Mahoney's good. Really good.

[David Sims]

Every other movie that I would put on this tier, I could like, form more of an argument on the right day of like, would I put that on my site and sound top 10. Whereas with this, I'd be like, that's silly. I'd put a different Cohen's on. But because it is such a specific flavor and I care about it so much. We were trying to find an episode. You threw your hat in for this. And I was just like, mitch, I don't think you're going to dislike it, but I don't want to run the risk. I just want to know you have seen it before. We give you the episode for sure.

[Mitch]

And I watched it early to make sure. And I was then mad at you.

[David Sims]

Because I ever yeah.

[Mitch]

How could you ever think that I wouldn't. Wouldn't love it? Yeah, it's great.

[Nick Weiger]

I. But I'm a little bit curious just, like, knowing how much you love this movie and knowing that y' all do guestless episodes and you were kind enough to fit us in when we were in town, but I was like, that. That struck me as like, oh, this is just gonna be a guestless one. And we're just gonna hear, you know.

[Griffin Newman]

There'S a lot of potential guestless episodes.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Coen Brothers, though. And then everyone wants them.

[David Sims]

Everyone movies. And also the other ones that we've done that are guest list. Even if they're, like, personal favorites of ours, they're also movies that are, like, so culturally huge that you're, like, between.

[Griffin Newman]

Our line, ET A Social Network, some big movie where there's plenty of.

[David Sims]

Back to the Future, these things where you're like. There's also so much cultural to talk about. There's interesting production stuff on this movie, but this is so much closer to being a movie that doesn't exist in a weird way, even though its reputation has.

[Mitch]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

My wife was like, what the fuck is this? Not in a mad way. Just like, how did this get approved?

[Mitch]

Right.

[David Sims]

You know, historically, still the least known of all of their movies.

[Nick Weiger]

It's kind of a. It's kind of amazing that it exists and also that they were able to get this made like Pre Fargo, like, before. They were at a point where they had, like.

[Griffin Newman]

You were guys.

[Nick Weiger]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

They weren't Oscar winning.

[David Sims]

We're gonna get into this. But this is their first blank check. And it's crazy because it's a blank check they are given based on just how good they are.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Even though they had yet to make a movie that made money on.

[Griffin Newman]

Really on letterboxd, which I always find interesting is a pulse of, you know, the young. The young.

[David Sims]

But just how many people have logged.

[Griffin Newman]

When you. When you go by popularity, it is above every. Is below everything but Intolerable Cruelty. And the Lady Killers, which makes sense because those are the. Those two are the least regarded.

[Nick Weiger]

But in terms of number of, like, people who've logged it, not necessarily rating.

[David Sims]

Okay. Right. That's literally just people. I have watched this movie, so, I.

[Nick Weiger]

Mean, speaking of wives, my wife Natalie, this is also one of her top 10 favorite movies of all time. So I had a. I had a. When you. You know, one reason we're talking about Hudsucker, I have a personal connection through her.

[Mitch]

You are.

[Nick Weiger]

I'm putting this movie on at home. And she's, like, reciting the opening narration. Like, it's like that level of fandom and that.

[Griffin Newman]

Got a good one, Nick.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah. Hey, don't. I know. You gotta get yourself a good watch. It's pretty important.

[Griffin Newman]

What was this?

[David Sims]

How do we describe the wife guy?

[Griffin Newman]

A wife guy is basically being crucified sitting down. Is that what's going on? Nick sort of like outstretched his limbs.

[David Sims]

He leaned back and put his arms out in a T pose. Let's also acknowledge that Nick just broke a chair right before recording.

[Nick Weiger]

I did. Look, here's the thing.

[David Sims]

He basically spilled himself onto the floor.

[Mitch]

I'm gonna say this.

[Nick Weiger]

I was late to the record, and then I broke a chair. So, like, I'm starting behind.

[Mitch]

You're trying to. And then you try to say, that's, like, what I would be known for. I think you're trying to.

[Nick Weiger]

On. One of the Doughboys is going to be late to the Blank Check record and break a chair at the studio. Mitch and I think that I would have.

[David Sims]

Mitch and I thought plus 850 versus Mitch. We thought we were going to beat Sims here, and we were so excited. And it turned out Sims got here early, but we thought, like, we're on track to beat him. And then if we're both earlier than you guys, we. We win forever.

[Mitch]

We win forever.

[David Sims]

Let the record show.

[Mitch]

And tomorrow doesn't matter when we record a Doughboys episode. Yeah, If Griff and I are 45, 50 minutes late. It doesn't matter.

[David Sims]

Yeah, doesn't matter.

[Mitch]

They're. They're going silent. They don't like this.

[David Sims]

I love it.

[Mitch]

This is.

[David Sims]

Look, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm David.

[David Sims]

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Hudsucker Proxy is a pretty good example of that.

[Griffin Newman]

I would say it is their most sort of. It's their most obvious blank check. Even though it wasn't, you know, $100 million movie or whatever, but. Right.

[David Sims]

Totally.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And we'll talk about it. It was like, the first time they consciously were like, can we make something that's more of a commercial crowd pleaser is what is fascinating about this movie is, like, they don't think of it as a like one for us that we're getting away with. They were like, it is time for us to team up with Joel Silver and start making, like, blockbuster hit comedies. And this is their calculation of, like, yeah, movie that everyone will want to go see.

[Mitch]

You saying it's one of the lesser known movies. I'll say this from my perspective. This was a huge blockbuster case movie. Like the. The. The COVID The COVID movie. Sure it was, because. And I had no idea what it.

[Griffin Newman]

Was about because it's a really weird post.

[David Sims]

You're like, what the is this?

[Mitch]

I thought it was about. I. I honestly genuinely thought it was about vacuums. And I think it was Hud sucker. And in. On and on. The cassette of box. Yeah, his hair is kind of going crazy. So I was like, oh, this is a vacuum movie. The vacuum is in reverse or something here.

[David Sims]

But in a way where you almost at first wouldn't quite understand what's going on.

[Mitch]

Yes. Yeah, I had. No, I. I didn't. I knew nothing about the Hula Hoop until I saw it was. But this was a huge blockbuster video. Like, hey, look at that movie. I should maybe see that at some point. And never, never did. And this is the only Coen brothers movie I've never seen.

[David Sims]

I just think that that's wild. I think every bigger budget movie they make after this, and they've never made a huge budget film.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, what's their most expensive movie? True Grit.

[David Sims]

I think true GR probably costs like 50 or 60. Sure. I don't think they've ever gone over that.

[Griffin Newman]

True Grid is listed at 35.

[David Sims]

This is what's crazy about them, right? Because, like, this still might be their highest budget film. $40 million, 25 years ago.

[Mitch]

It's true.

[David Sims]

20 years ago, 30 years ago is true.

[Mitch]

No Country. A bigger hit for them at biggest hit is the biggest.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, my gosh.

[David Sims]

True Grit was a blockbuster. And then it's like no country and Burn After Reading both were really big.

[Mitch]

Wow. Burn After Reading is right up there with wow.

[David Sims]

Reading weirdly made almost as much as no Country.

[Mitch]

That's wild.

[David Sims]

Having that much reputation. And then everything after that is sort of like, well, they keep their budgets low enough that the return on investment's okay. And, like, things like Big Lebowski that bombed at the time, but obviously have become so profitable through just being, like, now culturally ubiquitous. But it felt like this was the last time that they were like, yeah, if they give us, like, huge studio money, everyone will come see our movie. And it scares them in a way where they maybe become, like, incredibly responsible after this. This is a miniseries on the films of the Coen brothers. It's called Pod country for no casts. We could have called it The Podcaster Proxy or the Podsucker Cassidy or many other things.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, the Hudsucker Proxy is a. Is a bad title. I've grown used to it.

[Mitch]

But it's a bad title.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a bad title.

[Mitch]

It is a bad title. I mean, it confused child me. I mean, not 14 year old me as well.

[David Sims]

It is basically designed to be remembered incorrectly.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And it also doesn't even matter that much to the plot.

[Nick Weiger]

Well, he is the titular proxy.

[David Sims]

It does describe, I guess, the central premise, but in the weirdest way.

[Griffin Newman]

But what should it be called? I don't know. Yeah, it's not like I'm like. But it should have been called like.

[Mitch]

The Hula Hoop Man. Like I don't know what.

[David Sims]

Or dumb CEO or some like, shitty dumb CEO.

[Mitch]

Dumb CEO's pretty good.

[Nick Weiger]

Dumb CEO would have been pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

Carrot Top had already made chairman of the board.

[David Sims]

Right? Well, to confirm, had already suggested you spell it. B O R E D.

[Griffin Newman]

No, actually this is 1998, so they could have called it Chairman of the Board.

[David Sims]

They could have called it Chairman of the Board. Can I introduce our guests?

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because it's very exciting. For the fifth time on this show, entering the Fifth Timers club, but first time in person. Wow. We finally done it. Ten years of our two podcasts coexisting. We have finally crossed the streams with all four of us in the same room on mics. This has never happened.

[Nick Weiger]

This is wild. This is happening for Blank Check today and then tomorrow. And I think the episodes will be out in reverse order. Tomorrow we're recording. We're doing the opposite. Y' all are coming to Headgum New York and recording an episode of Doughboys. We're doing a home and a home and then we're ending both of our podcasts, which is huge.

[David Sims]

It's over.

[Griffin Newman]

So excited.

[David Sims]

We're doing it.

[Griffin Newman]

The Patreon, to be clear, stays turned up.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, Patreon, of course, yeah.

[David Sims]

We're doing a murder suicide and we're placing bets. We're creating an online marketplace to place bets on who's doing the murder versus the suicide.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. Yeah. Is it all of us? Roger Rabbit, they live seven, 1941, now this.

[David Sims]

So three huge kind of classic landmark films for their directors. And then within this year, 2025, year of our Lord, a sort of themed double header of, like early whiffs, big budget comedies from legendary directors. Except 1941, I would argue, kind of stinks. And this, I would argue, was misunderstood at the time.

[Mitch]

This is much, much better than 1941 for sure.

[Nick Weiger]

I think this is a legitimately great movie.

[David Sims]

I agree. I. I love that it's 10 out of 10.

[Nick Weiger]

I think it's great. And I. I've seen it probably a half dozen times. It's. You know, it. It's so singular. Like, like. And I know that's a weird thing to say about something that's so clearly evoking, like, you know, the. The screwball comedies of. Of yesteryear. But. But it. It does like.

[Griffin Newman]

It.

[Nick Weiger]

It, Like, I don't know, it kind of has such a. Like, it existing in 1994 as one of those makes it feel so distinct. And there's other stuff that's kind of like, of that era, but it, but that's doing a similar thing. But it's things like the Tim Burton Batman or the. The Warren Beatty Dick Tracy. And those are like, tied to ip. And they also don't have the same sort of like, cadence of dialogue, which is such a characteristic of this.

[David Sims]

I, I have a lot of thoughts on this, on why this film transcends. I think at the time it was written off as being a bit of a pastiche, and I think that is actually an incorrect label for what this movie is doing and why this movie actually works. But it makes sense why people were sort of putting up a guard against it. I do just want to formally introduce our guests.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, right.

[Mitch]

I'm googling pastiche as you do that. So this is perfect.

[David Sims]

Yeah. From the Doughboys podcast.

[Nick Weiger]

Italian noodles usually served with sauce.

[Mitch]

I could spell it correctly. I just don't know what it means.

[David Sims]

From the Doughboys podcast. Eden Cohen. Mike Mitchell.

[Mitch]

How you doing? Did I peek?

[David Sims]

And the self sucker proxy.

[Mitch]

There we go.

[David Sims]

Nick Weiger.

[Mitch]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Okay, so self sucker proxy was submitted by AJ McKee and our production coordinator.

[Mitch]

Wow.

[David Sims]

And Cohen was eaten. Yeah, Cohen was submitted by A L, Z, A N, D, Y, K on the blankies. Discord.

[Mitch]

If we probably have. We probably know the. That. That person from Doughboys too. I'm sure. I'm sure there's crossover.

[David Sims]

Can I read a couple more?

[Mitch]

Yeah, please. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Mr. Mooseburger.

[Mitch]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I like that guy who always needs the double stitch.

[Mitch]

That's. That's good.

[David Sims]

Six letter word for the condition of the hypoth. Hypo. Yes. The most liquid businessman on the street.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I mean, we're. We're kind of just doing Hudsucker jokes now.

[David Sims]

An extruded plastic dingus.

[Griffin Newman]

That's funny.

[David Sims]

This one out of respect to Mike Mitchell being in such excellent shape. Trim Robins.

[Mitch]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Trim robins.

[Mitch]

Hey, that's nice.

[Griffin Newman]

You want that Tim Robbins. But long. He's a long fellow.

[Mitch]

He is a long fellow. He is. So he's too long.

[David Sims]

And out of respect to Nick's recent legal status, a man who isn't allowed near a hula hoop because they're, you know, for kids. Those are all from Hoff. Beast. Very good.

[Griffin Newman]

Paul Newman is 5, 10. He's like, he's not a short guy. Like, he's a sort of regular set. And Robbins is just like a foot taller than him.

[David Sims]

Is Robin 66?

[Griffin Newman]

I think Robbins might be close to like, de Blasio height.

[Nick Weiger]

He's a tall drink of water.

[Griffin Newman]

He's listed at 65.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, but I like. And am.

[Griffin Newman]

Am I wrong? The tallest Oscar winning actor ever.

[Mitch]

Wow.

[Nick Weiger]

That is. That is wild. I feel like when I generally am seeing Tim Robbins in movies, things are blocked to. Not to de. Emphasize.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Because you don't want him to look insane unless it's part of the plot.

[Nick Weiger]

And here the. The cones do the opposite where they're just trying to emphasize like, how, you know, tall and how much he's sticking.

[David Sims]

Out from the hair.

[Griffin Newman]

Tease his hair.

[David Sims]

Big lumbering galoot.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like when Bart wears the.

[David Sims]

The.

[Griffin Newman]

The pinstripe suit and the, you know, in the Simpsons to try and look taller.

[Mitch]

Oh, right.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, it looks like they're making him this cartoon character.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I. We're getting into Ferdall.

[Griffin Newman]

He has the little Chihuahua.

[David Sims]

It's a discussion here. It's a great bit. We're getting to Ferd. All discussion. I just don't want to go too much further without remembering to play the drop. Ben, I think we have a little drop.

[Mitch]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

We have a drop. This is exciting.

[Mitch]

I never thought of Yoda as like a sexual creature until Yaddle. Honestly. Did Yoda and Yaddle. Did Yoda and Yaddle fuck?

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah. I would think they probably fucked.

[Mitch]

You think they really fucked. That's really funny.

[Nick Weiger]

Ooda man.

[Mitch]

Oh, my God.

[Nick Weiger]

Well, good. And that's canon.

[Mitch]

Until JJ came and fucking wiped it all out. You know what? Hearing how much our podcast sucks on your podcast just makes me feel bad. We're guests.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, these are two podcasts that have discussed Yaddle because we discussed a lot of plenty back when we did the prequels.

[David Sims]

First year of our podcast. Only prequel talk.

[Mitch]

There's not enough Yoda and Yaddle crossover in the movies, in my. In my opinion. I mean, I'm sure. And there's backstories and Comics and stuff like that.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's why it's. To me, it's so funny that somebody. George Lucas, I guess.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Was like, should we just, like, put a wig on a Yoda puppet and have one another one be there, you know, in the. In the council who doesn't talk or do anything? And, like. Sure. And then, like, the fans, like, so what's up with Yaddle? Like, and no one's just gonna be. I don't know, man. We put a wig on a Yoda.

[David Sims]

It's wild for there to basically be.

[Griffin Newman]

She has a wig on. She has, like, hair.

[David Sims]

Like, there are. They are the only two of the same species on the council. And they never interact with each other.

[Mitch]

No. Never once.

[Griffin Newman]

She doesn't say anything. She never says anything.

[David Sims]

We don't even give her a.

[Griffin Newman]

Not in a fucked up way.

[David Sims]

Right. Like, it'd be funny.

[Griffin Newman]

She's like, hey, guys, that would die.

[Mitch]

Wow. There'd be a lot of questions.

[David Sims]

In one of the Disney plus cartoon things recently, they did standalone episode on her backstory, and I think she was voiced by Bryce. Tell us.

[Griffin Newman]

That's all they should, really.

[David Sims]

Yeah. But the backstory, the original official backstory to Yaddle was that she was like a youngling, a Padawan or whatever. And then she was like, kidnapped in some battle, and she was a POW and she lived in a pit for like 150 years. She figured out how to turn the Force into nourishment to survive. And then they saved her. And all the other Jedis were like, I think she deserves to be made a master. And Yoda put his foot down. He was like, she doesn't have enough time in the field. Like, she was in a fucking pit.

[Mitch]

Is this real?

[David Sims]

Now that's all now it's all wiped away.

[Griffin Newman]

But the original jj, you know, was.

[David Sims]

That Yoda was like, I don't want another one of my species coming in. Like, this is just for me in.

[Griffin Newman]

In canon. Dooku killed her, like, now in canon.

[Mitch]

Oh, wow.

[David Sims]

In that cartoon.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Sexual jealousy.

[David Sims]

And also, they've never name Yoda's species are all just Yoda's species, right?

[Mitch]

Oh, Grogu. I forgot about Grogu.

[Griffin Newman]

2026 is the Mandalorian. And Grogu.

[David Sims]

How did you forget about Grogu?

[Griffin Newman]

He's probably gonna, like, play ping pong with a porg or whatever. It'll be great.

[David Sims]

This could be so big.

[Mitch]

Was it Iger? Who was it Iger who was like, let me see that. My billion dollar baby or whatever wasn't that his thing.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I, I, I, I don't care if you like the Mandalorian. I'm like, whatever on the Mandalorian. I think you're too much of a sour puss about Baby Yoda.

[Griffin Newman]

Grogu's good.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I think, I mean, I Look, am I being a hypocrite?

[David Sims]

Remained innocent. While everything else about that show has.

[Griffin Newman]

Gone on, they kind of smartly never did much Grogu.

[David Sims]

They've, they've been.

[Griffin Newman]

Instead, the Mandalorian became all about, like, do you want to learn about, like, Mandalorian politics? And I was just like, no, not at all.

[Mitch]

I am a hypocrite that I love the idea of yaddle and don't like Grogu.

[David Sims]

Would you like Grogu if you found out that Yaddle was Grogu's mom?

[Mitch]

Yes, I would love to see a young Yaddle.

[Griffin Newman]

Young Yaddle storybirth scene.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing a yaddle childbirth scene.

[David Sims]

You will like Grogu. You will agree to like Grogu if Yaddle is Grogu's mom and they show the conception on screen.

[Mitch]

I need to see the conception happen. Has, Was it another Yoda that, that, you know, is it.

[David Sims]

No, it's just some guy just.

[Mitch]

It could just be a man dude.

[David Sims]

At a truck stop.

[Griffin Newman]

Has he. Wait, has Lucas weighed in on Grogu?

[David Sims]

There's no photo of him holding the baby on, which is kind of cool.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I, I, it's going back to what you're saying about Yaddle. It's, this was a time that the, you know, Phantom Menace comes out. This is a time before I feel like everyone knows the term world building. And so a, a creative decision like that is like, oh, yeah, we'll just put another one like that, but, you know, another Yoda with a wig on. Like you were saying, it's just like, that becomes a thing that informs decades of fan theorizing. But I get, I guess, like, world building sometimes is as simple as just like, hey, we'll just put some shit in the background and then let people speculate.

[Mitch]

Can I make a deal with you guys? I like Grogu, but Babu Frick can burn in hell. How's that?

[Griffin Newman]

I think that's fine.

[David Sims]

Really.

[Griffin Newman]

And I mean, I like Babu Frick, but, like, I could lose Babu Frick. It's okay.

[David Sims]

We can lose him. I never.

[Griffin Newman]

From the bad movie. Like, the movie where it's like, there's no way into defending them so hard. Yeah, he's good. He's funny.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Do you think.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, maybe he's bad.

[David Sims]

Do you think there is like a room of like 800 writers right now working night and day trying to come up with what is the Grogu version of chicken jockey for the movie next year? Like, everyone you saying, like, oh, he's playing ping pong. Like, they're just. What is the thing we can have Grogu do that will go viral?

[Mitch]

That's a great. Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, boy.

[Griffin Newman]

Question.

[David Sims]

They must really.

[Nick Weiger]

That. That is like a. A deeply cynical world that you are projecting that is for sure going to happen. They're 100% calculate those moments.

[David Sims]

What is our memeable moment? What is the thing that Grogu's gonna do physically in relation to something else? Like him eating the eggs or whatever? Yeah.

[Mitch]

Maybe crawling back into Yaddle's womb. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You keep pushing that.

[Mitch]

Who made.

[Nick Weiger]

Who made the drop? Was that Ben? No, that was the Drop King. Wow. How about that out of retirement.

[Mitch]

Hey, dk, thanks for making our podc. Thanks a lot.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yes, of course. Nick and Mitch are joining us from the Doughboys podcast. If anyone doesn't know about that. I don't know. I'm sure everyone knows.

[David Sims]

But yes, Northeast podcast mini tour conveniently create an opportunity for you guys to stop over in New York for a couple days.

[Mitch]

He's. We're thrilled to be here. Right?

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, my God, what a treat to see.

[Mitch]

I mean this sincerely. The reason that we're here is probably to do this episode more so than do our tour. I think that is probably accurate. You wigs is not a big travel person.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, no, I'm not. Like, it's a nightmare, but I. Buddy, I'm happy to be here. Like, I'm happy. I always love coming into the city when I and have a reason to do so. And so we're over here for some tour dates anyway, so. Yeah, I'm glad we could figure out.

[David Sims]

Some studio time and to talk about a great New York movie.

[Nick Weiger]

Wow. How about that?

[Mitch]

That's true. It is true.

[Griffin Newman]

It is true. It's a, you know, New York art deco, New York fantasy New York.

[David Sims]

I'm gonna cite many things in this movie as being one of my favorite things of all.

[Griffin Newman]

There' no way one minute of this thing filmed in New York, right? No, North Carolina.

[David Sims]

Entirely in Wilmington, North Carolina, and the big studios. But they went so hog wild on the buildings and the miniatures for this that they basically were reused for the next decade. So the city of this movie is repurposed and obviously built upon redesigned for both Schumacher Batmans.

[Mitch]

That makes so much sense.

[David Sims]

There are like five other blockbusters that used this city as a starting point.

[Mitch]

That's like my first note. Note was like, this is like Batman. Like, that's exactly. That's great.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

There's no wonder that movie's good.

[David Sims]

Batman Forever because it's built on the bones.

[Griffin Newman]

Built on the bones of Hudsucker.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's true. I'm serious. No, I agree with you. It is funny, though, to think about it. We've talked so much about how bizarre it is that for like six years, the takeaway from the success of Batman was people love like art deco pastiche films rather than superhero movies. It was really like sort of nightmare dystopian cities. Right. And that this is kind of like a throwback comedy building off of. I guess people like this vibe. But yeah, by the time this comes out, a bunch of those other movies were already bombing. Oh, the Shadow uses these buildings as well.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, sure, that makes sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Great movie. I just rewatched.

[Mitch]

And when you say pastiche, you mean an artistic work in a style that imitates that of another work artist or period? Correct.

[David Sims]

Yeah, tiger. Hey, will you hand Mitch back its phone? It's not nice to keep it from him. He's having to recite things like this just off.

[Mitch]

Just off the top of my head. I know.

[Nick Weiger]

I just rolled back in his head. Like a mentor.

[David Sims]

Incredible. So everyone was like, when this came out, you read the reviews and there was this early Cohen thing of like, these guys are too good. Right. In a way where like a lot of the old guard critical community was like, we get it. These guys are like, technically perfect and they're so clever and they've seen a lot of movies and they read a lot of books and all their stuff is really kind of like self referential. It's really sort of like, look at what we know. We're toying off the history of narrative and film and whatever it is. And I think it reached an apex with this, which is like, they're getting studio money to build this sort of like reproduction of like these screwball comedies they grew up loving. And. And everyone's complaint was like, it is like technically incredible. The production design on this thing, the cinematography and all of it's like unbelievable. But it's like in a hermetic glass case. It has no feeling. It's all ironic. It's all distanced. Like, it's all cynical. It's all passionless, which they've always pushed back against. I Think this is like, arguably their single most sincere movie. And in certain ways they're most, like, nakedly emotional. But the other thing that I, like, push back on, David's thinking that over.

[Griffin Newman]

Not sure about that, but I. It's more sincere than people gave it credit at the time, which is true of almost every con movie. I think that often there was a critical element that was kind of like, we get it with your references. And you're sort of like, you know, this is so self aware and, you know, and I think that's often the.

[David Sims]

Thing that boggles my mind is the people who are pushing back on them the most. And I. I keep repeating this point, but it's a thing you always see when, like, young people come out the gate with big hits where a certain percentage of the community will push back and being like, let's not anoint them as masters too quickly. Like, let them prove themselves before we start, like, elevating people too high. Can I.

[Mitch]

Can I guess who was pushing back on it? A certain New York critic, Jay Sherman.

[David Sims]

Ah.

[Griffin Newman]

He thought it stung.

[David Sims]

He said it stunk, but Sherman thought it.

[Mitch]

He said, it stinks.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

This is my pushback on the pastiche thing is that people were like, oh, it's just them doing a Sturgis movie, or it's them doing a Preston Sturgis movie or a Capra movie or a Hawks movie. Like, people kept saying, it's a different type of movie. Speaking of films that spanned like a 30 year stretch, what I actually think they're doing in this movie is like mashing up 50 years of film. This is basically the first five decades of, like, movie making styles all put together. Which to me is what stops it from being a pastiche where movies like this often feel airless. If it's like the good German thing where Soderbergh's like, I'm gonna try to make it exactly as if I'm gonna get the cameras from 1941 and study Casablanca and study the framing and just redo this. And that becomes too much of a technical exercise. This movie is like, hear me out, kind of closer to Star wars in that Lucas was sort of like, what do I take from, like, westerns and samurai films and Arthurian legend and, like, combined all these things together. But because what the Cohens are doing is just different decades of comedy, I think it got smushed together to people of just they're riffing on one thing, but they're actually picking and choosing from, like, different comedic movements in Film, in my opinion.

[Nick Weiger]

There's also, like, a commonality between this and Star wars in the presence of Yaddle.

[David Sims]

This is true.

[Mitch]

Yeah, Yaddle's. She's one of the board members. Yeah, she's in that scene where you show. They see all the. The old white guys.

[David Sims]

Yeah, she's. David.

[Mitch]

Yep.

[David Sims]

Ben, what's up? We've been doing this Coen Brothers miniseries.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

The films of the Coen brothers lot.

[David Sims]

A bag of money movies in this filmography.

[Griffin Newman]

Sometimes people find a bag of money and it matters to the plot.

[David Sims]

It's a thing Ben talks about a lot. Yes.

[Nick Weiger]

Because for me, I always feel strongly that it's gonna all work out.

[David Sims]

That if you found a bag of money, everything would work out for you perfectly. But what you don't talk about is what are you gonna do once it works out perfectly? What are you gonna do with that bag of money?

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, I see exactly where you're going with this.

[Mitch]

I'd buy a bunch of clothes.

[David Sims]

Well, but here's the thing, Ben.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[David Sims]

What if you want to preserve that bag, I'm saying, why drop a fortune on basics when you don't have to, right? What if it's possible to get the best of both worlds? Quince has the good stuff. High quality fabrics, classic fits and lightweight layers for warm weather. All at prices that make sense. Prices that even someone who didn't find a bag of money in the woods.

[Mitch]

I love Quince.

[David Sims]

Could. Could handle. David, tell me what you like.

[Griffin Newman]

I just have. Well, I'm mostly, I'm addicted to their polo shirts.

[David Sims]

You're addicted to the polo?

[Mitch]

The breathable floating.

[Griffin Newman]

Because, like, I spend all the summer basically needing to not look like a total piece of garbage at the office, but it's like, you know, 100 billion degrees in New York City. And those Quint polos, which are very comfortable but very good looking and very professional looking and very breathable, really hit the spot for me. But they got a lot of great stuff. Got great sweaters and hey, sweater season's on the horizon.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that's my season.

[Griffin Newman]

So I'm gonna need a couple.

[David Sims]

See, this is the problem.

[Griffin Newman]

Great pants.

[David Sims]

In summer, I'm a sweater. In summer, I. I am a sweater. In the fall, I want to wear sweaters.

[Griffin Newman]

There you go. And, you know, they. They work with those artisans. They cut out the middlemen, you know, what's giving you luxury without the markup.

[David Sims]

That's exactly what they do. And here's the thing. They only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. And premium fabrics and finishes. You look good, feel good at the same time.

[Griffin Newman]

And yeah, apparently they've also got bedding and towels. I might want to investigate that next. Yeah, they got great swim trunks. Yes, they do.

[David Sims]

I'll use those a bunch.

[Griffin Newman]

I have a ton of swimsuits, like, because I swim a lot and I need to add a quint to my.

[David Sims]

Are you still swimming every day?

[Griffin Newman]

It's been a little bit of a struggle in the summer, but come the fall I'm going to be doing it every day again for sure.

[David Sims]

So you got. Let's, let's slap a pair of quench shorts on your booty. How about that?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, please. And I'm gonna start talking about David's booty.

[David Sims]

I think you should.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's time for us to talk about it.

[David Sims]

It's time to talk about it.

[Griffin Newman]

I've never thought it was a particularly big asset of mine, but you know what? Maybe 20, 25 is the year of my booty. Yeah, exactly. Keep it classic and cool with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com check for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[David Sims]

That's one year.

[Griffin Newman]

That's Q-U-I-N c e.com sl check to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com check. And indeed, that is one year.

[David Sims]

That's one year.

[Nick Weiger]

What, Griffin, what was your way in for this movie? And, and at what point does it enter your, your personal top 10?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Coen brothers Lover, no Country for All. Man, I was like obsessed with. But that was sort of. It felt like a culmination of me getting into them for years and years and years and being like, this is a masterpiece. This is their like crowning achievement in that like stupid 2007 competition. It felt like between, like, are you a no country guy or There Will Be Blood guy? I was, it was my one semester in film school and I was like so defensively stumping.

[Griffin Newman]

The real answer is obviously, hell yes.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

But I do. I do have no country right up there. It's an incredible movie.

[David Sims]

I think the year after that, MoMA does a retrospective of all their movies up until that point. And I go and see this and Barton Fink in the same day, which at that point were maybe the only two I hadn't seen. And it was a chance to see them in theaters. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna see the weird one that no one likes. And then after that I'm gonna see the One that's like their most critically beloved in a way. And this screen's first and truly from the first moment is one of my favorite openings in movies of just like you have silent title, like seven title cards. And then just like the music kicks in. The most beautiful miniature shot with like just perfect little like microfiber snow and Bill Cobb going. That's right, New York.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait, is the first thing the suicide or is it Tim Robbins in front of the job board? It's the suicide first.

[David Sims]

The first thing the camera pushes through the entire city.

[Mitch]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[David Sims]

To reveal him stepping out into the row. And then, then the clock goes backwards. Right, right, right, right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

But then I think first it's, it's, then it's Tim Robbins at the job board. And then Hudsucker drops.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But I, I truly, I think from that moment was like, holy shit, what the fuck is this? Like felt chills. And then walked out. Remember texting my dad. I think this is one of my 10 favorite movies of all time. Like it was kind of an immediate love at first sight thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, this is a very Griffin movie. I mean this is not surprising.

[Mitch]

I was going to say that it's.

[David Sims]

Riffing on are like my favorite era of movies.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And comedies and aesthetics like, and you.

[Griffin Newman]

Wish like every woman was like, yeah, yeah. Like you want Jennifer, Jason Lee, like that's your kind of lady.

[David Sims]

Everything about this is like the world I want to live.

[Griffin Newman]

You kind of wish everyone was like.

[Mitch]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

I'm getting really turned on, David. But yeah, it was like, right. A thing I had put off seeing for a while because I was like, right, that's the weird left handed one.

[Griffin Newman]

I knew it also right as the one the, you know, the Empire magazine. So the world would be like, yeah, Hudsuckers, that's the weird one. The one no one liked going into this trailer.

[Nick Weiger]

That there hasn't been like a, like a more in recent years reclamation of this movie.

[David Sims]

I think it happened in the last.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's become more accepted. It's like, yeah, they, they never made bad movies.

[David Sims]

The Metrograph Theater here in New York now screens it every holiday season. It's a good holiday movie within the week between Christmas and New Year's. And that feels like there is some mild canonization happening.

[Mitch]

I did not realize it was a Christmas New Year's movie when I was first going into it.

[David Sims]

I always put forward that it's like this and Harry Met Sally are the two best New Year's movies because there aren't a lot of good New Year's movies.

[Griffin Newman]

No. What are other good New Year's? Well, New Year's Day, obviously.

[Mitch]

Two great.

[Griffin Newman]

Marshall.

[Mitch]

Two great New York movies.

[David Sims]

Two great New York movies. Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Strange Days at New Year's.

[David Sims]

Strange Days.

[Griffin Newman]

Strange days, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes Any. Any kind of Turn of the Millennium movie.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

A New Year's movie.

[David Sims]

Rudolph, Shiny New Year.

[Mitch]

That's. Yeah, that's. I think that. Yeah, it's definitely that. To me, that's a New Year's movie.

[David Sims]

Little baby New Year. Big ears.

[Mitch]

I I Griff, this does seem like such a. Such a you movie in many ways. Like, I could see people walking to this meeting, being very confused by it back in the day. And it feels like it could be a divisive movie. And also just the fact that it is, like, an alternate. It feels weirdly even still watching it feels weirdly modern, even though, of course, it's whatever the.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I also, like, I think in a certain way, culture has caught up to this movie. Like, this is them combining the vibes of the 1900s through the 1950s into a movie in the 1990s that was a little prescient about, like, corporate culture that has only grown since then.

[Nick Weiger]

Sure.

[David Sims]

It feels like this film is, in certain ways a reaction to them trying to make sense of how to be personal artists within, like, a massive industry. Like, I think the oddly personal aspect of this film, beyond it just being like, the two of them and Sam Raimi being like, what's the kind of movie we love? What's the kind of thing that would be so much fun to make, is also, like, the idea of trying to make something pure within this, like, huge lumbering machinery is like trying to convince a board to sell a hula hoop, which is like, standing up and being like, you know, and like, there's sand inside.

[Griffin Newman]

So I'm looking at New Year's movies. The problem is a lot of them are Christmas movies, and that doesn't count to me. If you're more of a Christmas movie, you don't count. But I do think Phantom Thread gets the New Year's title because it's got an iconic New Year's party.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

In it that has become kind of like. I feel like people are always posting a picture of it.

[Mitch]

I agree with that. I don't know, man.

[Griffin Newman]

Ghostbusters 2 is a new Year's movie.

[David Sims]

It is.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, wow.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Mitch]

Can I say another one that doesn't. Isn't technically a New Year's movie, but I do think it is a New Year's movie. Go ahead. Gremlins, too. They're in the lobby and they're singing New York, New York, and they're doing a countdown, but it's not really New Year's Eve.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's New Year's coded New Year's coded countdown.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Because Gremlins 1 is Christmasy, right?

[Mitch]

Yes. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Gremlins 1's explicitly Christmas.

[Mitch]

Right.

[David Sims]

Here's, I think, a reason why I love this so much as a New Year's movie. It starts with Tim Robbins about to jump at 11:55. Right. And Bill Cobb just being, like, a week ago, this guy was the head of a company. How has he fallen so low that he's about to kill himself? And the movie comes back around to this guy, like, getting the girl at 1205. Right. Like, it's a movie about, for me, that feeling I always have on New Year's. That is just like the ledge. The highest highs and the lowest lows.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Like this forced kind of like, introspection and retrospection combined with this notion of, like, a hope of something great happening.

[Nick Weiger]

I'll just. Just say, for me, my way into this movie was. Mitch talked about it being a blockbuster film. My parents rented this when I was a kid.

[Mitch]

It worked.

[Nick Weiger]

And I watched this. Well, no, they. We. Like, whoa. Yes, I guess it worked in the. The. They did rent them directly.

[Mitch]

I'm saying that. Yeah, the COVID worked.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, no, you're correct. I. I thought you were saying something different. The movie did not work on me as a kid because I was just baffled.

[David Sims]

Did your parents like it?

[Nick Weiger]

I remember my parents laughing at it and me not understanding what was going on and just being like, this movie is weird. Why are they talking like your parents.

[Griffin Newman]

Didn'T like it either?

[Nick Weiger]

No, my parents did. Like, they were. They were there. They enjoyed the movie. But, like, I revisited this movie in adulthood and was like, oh, wait, I actually really like this. And I've watched it a few times since. And again, I mentioned my wife really loves this movie. So, like. But. But it is kind of. It's unmooring as a viewer. Like, if you don't know what you're getting into, you're kind of. You're unsettled. That sounds like that's what your viewing was, Mitch, for a little bit.

[Mitch]

I mean, like, I was. I was shocked at what I was watching. I had. I just. I knew nothing about it, and I did not. I hadn't. I had no idea what it was about at all. So it was, was. It was a lot to take in. Also, do you think your parents will regret showing you that movie when you jump out of the podcast building in like 10 years or whatever, when you pull a Hudsucker when we're in Headgum Dubai or where the hell we are.

[Griffin Newman]

Getting like blood some. There's some like withered husk of a, you know, head gum hunk and you're like getting his blood put into you.

[David Sims]

Do you remember when he saw it?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. College 100. It was college DVD. Yes. Well, there was a little service called Love Film. I brought, I brought this up before, but it was the, the Britain's Netflix before Netflix bought it and consumed it.

[David Sims]

But it was the original uk, the.

[Griffin Newman]

Old disc, you get the discs in the mail. And I was already obsessed with the Cohen and so I was filling in my gaps. I 100% remember like, and just love at first sight. Watching it on my little 10 inch TV by my bed a lot. I watched a lot of great movies there.

[David Sims]

I mean I had the miraculous thing of getting to see it projected on film for the first time and then I bought it on DVD and was like obsessively showing it to people and I had to keep being like, you can't imagine how good this looks. Like as good as it looks on a 10 inch screen. It's one of those movies where you're like, the effects actually hold up the better resolution you see it in versus a lot of movies of this era where you're like, it actually benefits from watching in lower res.

[Mitch]

Do you think this is the most. Most. I wrote this down and I. And I'm asking you guys, because you're experts, is this the most like kind of Lynchian Coen Brothers movie or Terry Gilliam kind of.

[David Sims]

There's definitely some Gilliam in there.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's interesting, the Lynching thing. I mean I feel like lynch and the Cohen's are both similarly obsessed with like old eras of speaking. Right. Like the, the time specific era, specific dialects. And that part of it I think evokes something like lynch movies will have one character show up and talk like this.

[Mitch]

Yeah. And. And also, I mean the, the bellboy at time like the elevator boy seems like kind of like a nightmare sequency at some point.

[Griffin Newman]

Barton Fink is very similar.

[Mitch]

Yeah, yeah. So much to me though felt when I was watching this, I was like, Barton Fink seems so much more in the real world than this feels.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. Which is true. It is, you're right. It's actually more about like reality than. Than this is.

[Nick Weiger]

But that's. No, I. I mean, like, if we're looking for. No, no. I was just gonna say if we're gonna look for a director to. As a point of comparison to me. And maybe it's just. It's just because Batman is right there, but I just. It feels like a Tim Burton film a lot of ways. Especially like. Like it's just such a broad, arch morality play and then just with some light fantastical elements that also exists in a time and place that's both specific but non specific that doesn't actually exist.

[David Sims]

Well, it's what I love about the opening, beyond it being such a beautiful shot and the score being so great and whatever, but the opening line of the movie being. That's right. Which I just find so funny as a joke to start a movie with a response to a thing that wasn't like asked and then just saying like, that's right. New York City, which is basically the movie pointing and being like, you need to accept that this is New York City. This does not look like reality. Yeah, we're in like Fantasia.

[Griffin Newman]

Never going to see the sun. In a weird sort of way.

[David Sims]

There's no like baseline normalcy that this movie is going to veer off from. We're starting in like a fairy tale picture book world.

[Griffin Newman]

Elevator board, of course. Jim True Frost. Everyone know Jim True Frost. Or am I the only Wire fan here?

[Mitch]

Oh, he's in the Wire, Prez. Oh my God.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, wait.

[Nick Weiger]

The teacher.

[David Sims]

Wild buzz. He's got the fuzz. He makes the elevator do what she does.

[Griffin Newman]

That's right.

[Mitch]

That's.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. It's funny because him on the Wire. I know. You haven't watched the Wire, Griff. I think, right?

[David Sims]

I've not. I've been too busy watching Greg the Bunny.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, right. On the Wire, he plays like kind of a soft spoken squirrely cop who's bad at his job. Like, he does not play a guy who's like, hey, man boss, how you know it? Like, it's like, it's funny to see him doing.

[Mitch]

I knew I knew him and I.

[Nick Weiger]

Like overly drawn out, like kind of sluggish. On the Wire.

[Griffin Newman]

It's. He's really good. It's great on that.

[Mitch]

Yeah. Season four of the Wires is the Greg the Bunny perspective, Griff. So it's a good crossover if you want to watch.

[David Sims]

I. When. When Sean Baker won all the Oscars for Anora, I was like, I should go back and watch Greg the Bunny because it's so incongruous. That he created Greg the Bunny. And it's so funny to think back to, like, that's where he was 20 years ago. And now he's like, the king of indie cinema. And then I rewatched the full season of Greg the Bunny and realized, oh, he had nothing to do with the Fox show he and the other guy created for cable access. And then that guy developed it for Fox. And I was like, well, I just watched 13 episodes of Greg the Bunny for no reason.

[Griffin Newman]

You're just hanging out with it.

[Mitch]

I think everyone said that when they watched Greg the Bunny. So you're not alone.

[Griffin Newman]

Steven Levitan did it for Fox.

[David Sims]

Well, he was the old hand they brought in.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

With Dan Milano, who was the co creator.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And the puppeteer. And then Dan Milano becomes a robot chicken guy.

[Nick Weiger]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I just completed the entire Greg Bunny family tree. I made sense of how it came into existence. Thank you. John Harkness, film criticism, writing for Sight and sound in 1994 when this film came out, reviewed this movie in a real, like, I'm gonna reveal that the emperor has no clothes. These guys are, like, all flash and no substance. His headline was the Sphinx without a Riddle.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

But they describe the movie really weird.

[Griffin Newman]

Burn.

[David Sims]

Yes. He describes the movie as, Norville Barnes is a Preston Sturges hero trapped in a Frank Capra story, and never the twain shall meet, especially not in a world that seems to have been created by Fritz Lang.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're. And you're. It's getting at your mashup idea, right?

[David Sims]

That he's like. It's two different styles of, like, kind of Hollywood dramedy and Hollywood pure, like, screwball comedy in a sort of dystopian, almost German expressionist relic of an idea of city building and world building. Right. And he also says, obviously, the Jennifer Jason Lee character is like a Howard Hawks character. And his whole read is that the movie's mashup is fundamentally wrong because you can't put a Sturgis character in a crap.

[Griffin Newman]

You can't just take all these things and put them together.

[David Sims]

Well, he's also, like, they're incompatible worldviews. But I think he misidentified it. Where I think this movie, not to get too eggheady, is Capra character in a Sturgis world. His argument is the character's too cynical in a world that's too pure. And it's the other way around.

[Griffin Newman]

He's a sweetie pie.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Mitch]

My first word of advice for this guy is, chill out, nerd.

[David Sims]

Agreed.

[Mitch]

You Got to chill out. Is he still alive? I don't even know.

[Griffin Newman]

Unfortunately, he's passed away.

[Mitch]

He's passed away. All right, well, chill out. Rest in peace and chill out. I. There's. You're like, even. No matter what, even if you have, like, some of these complaints or something, like, there's no denying that this movie looks beautiful and is like, it's funny. There was stuff when I was watching it when I first saw Jennifer Jason Lee doing her thing, and I was like, this is a really big performance. And as the movie went on, I was like, this is great. It's what. This is what the world is. I'm accepting it for what it is.

[David Sims]

Reviews at the time, and people really singled her out as, like, sure bombs, the whole thing.

[Mitch]

Oh, that's.

[David Sims]

Why did they let her do this voice? And they're like, she came in for the audition and had the voice, and we were like, yeah, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Why wouldn't she do that voice?

[David Sims]

This character wouldn't make sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, this character would be dumb if she didn't talk. Exactly.

[David Sims]

They were like, thank God she, like, prepped this.

[Mitch]

Yes. It is big. I mean, when I first. When I was first seeing it, I was like, this is. This is big, but everything is big. Exactly.

[Nick Weiger]

It's. It's a. I don't know. I think it's a pretty astonishing performance.

[Griffin Newman]

Performance. Yeah.

[David Sims]

On a technical level, it is insane.

[Griffin Newman]

Who's your fave? Who's everyone's fave?

[Mitch]

Well, it's a stack cast. My whole thought about it, so when I first saw it and she was being really big, and then when it comes around and she, like, humanizes the character and. And, you know, like, what's his name? Who's the Robbins? Who's a hay seed is kind of like, you put on this attitude, and then at the end, you kind of see it breaking. But she's still remaining the same character. You're like, that is a good performance. There's no denying that.

[David Sims]

I think she is the best performance in the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

She is certainly my nominee. Yes.

[David Sims]

Yes. That's your one nomination.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Supporting or lead?

[Mitch]

Supporting. Can I tell you who I think is number one? I think Yaddle's probably the best.

[Griffin Newman]

She is good. I mean, she's. This is a hotness conversation. Obviously. Now there is Seattle number one, James.

[David Sims]

Urbaniac, Bill Cobbs number two, friend of the show, past and future guest James Urbaniak.

[Griffin Newman]

The great James, who is. Who's capable of going.

[David Sims]

I was gonna say this is a shared Favorite movie of ours. And every time we hang out, we just, like, talk about this movie again because we've always.

[Mitch]

He'd be. He could be. He could plot. You could plop him right into this movie. He'd be great.

[David Sims]

Would fit perfectly.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he always points out it's one of his. He says it's one of his favorite moments of, like, performance he's ever seen. There was the scene where Tim Robbins is explaining what he imagines Amy Archer looks like. Right. When he's, like, talking trash about her.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

After she's published the slam piece. And he's like, she's probably one of those women who's gotten infected with the cultural idea that she doesn't need a man or whatever it is. And she starts to get flustered. Like, it's clearly kind of getting to her where she wants him to be attracted to her, even if it's only a version of her that he doesn't know. Whatever. Right. And she has this moment where she says, like, well, maybe she's one of those women who cares more about her work than her exterior appearance. But with her hands, while she's saying work, she gestures to her hair and makeup. And when she says personal appearance, she mimes writing.

[Mitch]

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Like writing down and, like, on a typewriter. And it's such a funny inversion. It's great. Yeah, she's. She's great in this. My. I mean, my other secret favoriteness is Charles Durning, who I think is unbelievable.

[Griffin Newman]

He's so funny in that, you know, in the outfit, too. I love his little halo, all of it.

[David Sims]

But like, when we. In the Straight Story episode, you were saying, is there an argument to be made for Harry Dean Stanton getting an Oscar nomination for saying one line, 30 seconds at the end of the film? Because of how well he does it. But the first time I saw this movie, when I didn't think Charles Durning was coming back, he's third build in the opening credits and then immediately jumps out a window. I was like, he earned that billing just for the silent contemplation of the suicide.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite is when he kind of goes into, like, Usain Bolt, like, into his stance where he's about to go.

[David Sims]

He nails the comeback.

[Mitch]

But he maybe is my favorite hilarious looking person.

[David Sims]

He is one of my.

[Griffin Newman]

I am not trying to body shame Charles Journeying, but God bless that body of his.

[David Sims]

Well, so he has this, like, great dance background.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

We talked about a recent that I shamefully have never seen Bessel Whorehouse in Texas. But watch his number all the time. But he's got dance training. And you see in, like, the way.

[Griffin Newman]

And also he, like, to be clear, fought on Omaha beach. Like. And I'm like, yeah, funny body, old there, durning. Like, he's like, in a war hero.

[David Sims]

Front lines of D Day. There's an incredible utterance. YouTube video of Tom Hanks introducing him at a D Day anniversary event.

[Mitch]

He fought on Omaha beach in World War II. I know. If it was another. I've been to. I've also fighting a person fighting some.

[Griffin Newman]

Guy not during war. It'd be funny if I was like, I was on Omaha beach, you know, get some rage.

[David Sims]

What's the. Isn't there some movie where there's a joke? Oh, no, it's the SNL Goodbye Saigon sketch where Will Ferrell keeps having the Vietnam flashbacks. And. And one of the other characters, like, he served and they were like, no, he just went to Vietnam on vacation.

[Griffin Newman]

Bad happen.

[David Sims]

I think he lost his luggage.

[Mitch]

I have a boring.

[David Sims]

Like a true war hero. Yeah.

[Mitch]

He's one of my favorites. But I do have a boring answer. My favorite lemonade maker.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Mr. Newman.

[Mitch]

He's just so good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a joy to see a great like that. A titan.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, be a silly guy.

[Mitch]

Well.

[Nick Weiger]

And just also agree to do this.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[Nick Weiger]

Kind of amazing.

[David Sims]

And this is that era where like.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's hot, by the way.

[Nick Weiger]

Well. Oh, my God. He takes a shirt off.

[Griffin Newman]

The shirt off.

[Nick Weiger]

A shirt off for the massage.

[David Sims]

It's insane. It's insane how handsome that guy was up until his dying day and probably still looks pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Is it his 70s?

[Griffin Newman]

Here, let's dig him up.

[Mitch]

We gotta dig him up. We gotta see how he looks.

[Griffin Newman]

He was born in 1925, so he would have been like about 70. Like about hitting 70.

[Mitch]

Soon he.

[Nick Weiger]

He, like, he's getting the massage shirtless, and then he stands up and just.

[Griffin Newman]

You know that the towel around him or whatever.

[Nick Weiger]

My torso has never looked that good in my life. Nick looks fucking incredible.

[Mitch]

Come on. You look good.

[Nick Weiger]

That's nice of you to say, Mitch, but I'm gonna look like fucking Paul Newman.

[Griffin Newman]

Nick is looking good, by the way. I've been in the room with Nick before, but never for the podcast. But Nick's looking good.

[David Sims]

Thank you. That's looking good. Mitch is looking good.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I already told Mitch he's pretty good.

[David Sims]

But I gotta say on Mike that Mitch is looking pretty good.

[Mitch]

It's too kind. But look, Nick, I think it's only.

[David Sims]

Fair by the way, quickly, anything you want to say about David?

[Mitch]

David Griff?

[Griffin Newman]

You guys are looking good.

[Mitch]

In fact, I'll put it in terms I think you like more wags. I think you should take your shirt off. I think we should see how.

[David Sims]

This isn't a video podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

See if you've got 70 something Newman Energy.

[David Sims]

People will just have to take a letter.

[Mitch]

No, Newman is a. He's a. He is a babe.

[Griffin Newman]

It's that era of Newman where I feel like in the 80s, if. What? Like, you know, he. He gets all serious. I mean, he was always a very serious actor, right? But he's playing like these really. And then in the 90s, it's like, what if I'm like a rascal, you know, like Nobody's fool, right? These movies where it's like everyone loves old Blue Eyed Newman, right?

[David Sims]

Like, so, like, that's this run of like, him playing a grump. Or like the Verdict where it's like a guy who's kind of lost his.

[Griffin Newman]

Way up in the Verdict and then Color of Money. It's sort like, you know, he's hot. Like, let's just like, still admit that he's like a hottie.

[David Sims]

But this is him playing like an absolute cartoon villain. It is so funny to see him not be an anti hero, not be a guy who's like, sort of at odds with himself, but just like a cartoonishly evil person. And they talk about that. They were just like, don't try to find any depth in this.

[Griffin Newman]

Right? This is the same year as Nobody's Fool.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a good movie.

[David Sims]

Play it real. But like, do not try to humanize this guy. Don't try to find a core of what animates him. He is an evil businessman who likes being evil and smoking cigars.

[Mitch]

He's great.

[David Sims]

He's so good.

[Mitch]

He's so good. I. He's. He is probably my mvp. And I, I do hope that blank check can get a nod from the Newman estate to dig him up so we can see how.

[Griffin Newman]

I think we should.

[Mitch]

I think we should take him up. He probably looks good.

[David Sims]

Can we get like a sub license from them to label this a Newman's own podcast?

[Griffin Newman]

Guys, he was cremated. Disaster.

[David Sims]

Oh, here's a real question.

[Mitch]

I bet those ashes look pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

Stick them up.

[David Sims]

Did they. Did they donate his eyes to science?

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think so. I'm sorry. Jerry Orbach, you know, is the famous eye donator.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Do you guys know this? That Jerry Orbach donated his eyes and for years in New York City. There'd be subway ads promoting a New.

[Griffin Newman]

York legend, to be clear, Jerry Orbach, one of the great New York workers.

[David Sims]

But they would just have these big ads that were like, Jerry Orbach's headshot. And it would say, like, he gave his eyes to science.

[Griffin Newman]

Shouldn't you consider it?

[Mitch]

I think my eyes are a little too tiny for science. I don't know if they were. I've got very tiny eyes. So maybe they would like to study them. Like, I don't know.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, maybe.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Worth preserving.

[Griffin Newman]

Newman only did some things, excluding Cars. He only did four films after this year.

[David Sims]

So after this, Nobody's Fooled is the same year.

[Griffin Newman]

Same year. And he gets an Oscar nomination for Nobody's Fool.

[David Sims]

You're counting that as one of the four.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So I'm saying after.

[David Sims]

It's where the money is. He did do that Road to Perdition.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That was his final film role on. On screen.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Cars is amazing.

[David Sims]

Right. Last theatrical release.

[Griffin Newman]

He's a voice of a car. And cars. He's really.

[Mitch]

Goodness.

[David Sims]

Excuse me. He's the voice of the car. He's a judge. Show him some respect.

[Griffin Newman]

He is a judge.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but he's also.

[Griffin Newman]

He used. He won like the old cup. Right.

[David Sims]

Cars contain multitudes. What do you mean? You can't limit him to one profession.

[Griffin Newman]

He was 83 years old.

[David Sims]

The fourth movie he made was Message in a Bottle. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you've only named three of the live actions. Message in a Bottle. Indeed. Which he's messaged in a bottle. Nobody's a Costner movie.

[David Sims]

Where the money is.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, I'm not counting Nobody's.

[David Sims]

Okay, so then where the Money is.

[Griffin Newman]

Message in a Bottle. Road of Edition. And you're forgetting Twilight. Sexy thriller. Twilight.

[David Sims]

I always think Twilight was earlier.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. It's Hackman and Newman being sexy together. Two sexy seventy somethings.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And like burly chests in that movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, and like wiry chest. I've never seen Twilight.

[David Sims]

I've never seen Twilight. I've seen one scene from Twilight many times.

[Griffin Newman]

There is a famous nude scene in Twilight. She.

[David Sims]

Oh, Paul Newman shows sack. Reese Witherspoon has one scene. I've studied extensively.

[Griffin Newman]

Never seen Twilight.

[David Sims]

Also, Robert Paul Newman shows off the twins.

[Griffin Newman]

Benton did Nobody's fool with him and he did Twilight with them.

[David Sims]

Yeah. There's a story because Liv Schreiber's in that. That one scene I've seen many times. And he has a story about Paul Newman, Joanne Woodward visiting him on set and walking away when they were Getting ready to take. Do a take. And he just looks at her and then looks back to Lee of Shriver and goes, what an ass. On her. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Joanne Woodward.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And Snyder was like. Like, this is like, rules that this guy's still so horny for his wife.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's like, come on, Leah, if you want to take a piece.

[David Sims]

But he was like, respectfully, as if he was looking at the Mona Lisa.

[Griffin Newman]

Look at that ass. God, he should have won an Oscar for saying that.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Just for that line off. Yeah. He's the best.

[Nick Weiger]

Our buddies now my wife's gonna be like, you never say anything about that.

[Mitch]

Like that for about me.

[Griffin Newman]

Why aren't you talking about me to.

[Nick Weiger]

Leah Schreiber, describing my ass to other men?

[David Sims]

Your impression of your life.

[Mitch]

She's a Southern.

[Griffin Newman]

I didn't realize your wife, like, owned a store.

[David Sims]

The. The. Our buddies at the Big Picture just did at the time. We're recording this. Very recently did a Paul Newman.

[Griffin Newman]

They did. For his anniversary.

[David Sims]

Centennial.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Rare.

[David Sims]

And they talked about the fact that he was an alcoholic until his, like, 60s, that he was like a case of beer or six martinis a night guy.

[Mitch]

Oh, my God.

[David Sims]

What they're saying, like, for a guy who drank that much for that many decades, there is no period of time in which he looked bad. Not only is there never, like a run where you're like, oh, you're like three years where he's really bloated, but it didn't even catch up to him when he was old.

[Mitch]

Some people just have that. They can just do it. They can just do that every night. And it doesn't affect him. I don't know how they feel.

[David Sims]

He might have been the most beautiful man in the history of movies.

[Mitch]

He's. He's up there.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. He's the best looking movie star of all time.

[David Sims]

I really think so.

[Griffin Newman]

I think doing his filmography is a really great way to experience, like, how Hollywood changed.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

For, you know, for over the course of, like, four decades. And it's not like he made the best movies of all time, although he made a lot of really good ones. But it's there. It is very, very fun to watch a Paul Newman movie. Like, just pick one. Like, you'll have a good time.

[David Sims]

Paul Newman is kind of a Forrest Gump figure that you can track the progression of American movies from the 1950s to the 2000s through, like, it all kind of happens. Either he's in reaction, response, ahead of the curve direction. Yeah. Well, he was miles ahead in that Movie.

[Griffin Newman]

He was. But y' all seen Cars?

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I've seen Cars.

[Griffin Newman]

You seen Cars, Mitch?

[Mitch]

Is this the animated cars? Pixar cars? Yeah, that's real. Are they gonna do a Disney live action recreation?

[Griffin Newman]

They should.

[David Sims]

They should.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, that would be so good.

[David Sims]

And they shouldn't talk.

[Mitch]

It feels like the only one that they should do a live action version.

[Griffin Newman]

Just get some cars on them.

[David Sims]

Well, no, you know how, like, when they. They'll show, like, oh, here's the live action cast of the Little Mermaid. You're like, they made, like, Sebastian look like a real crab.

[Mitch]

Right.

[David Sims]

Which thunder look like a real fish. They should literally just get real cars. Not put eyes and mouths on them.

[Mitch]

I love that.

[David Sims]

Drive them around.

[Mitch]

Except for Mater. He is. He is Larry the Cable Guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Painted, right? Just painted and mounted.

[David Sims]

Paul Newman is one of these guys who, like, really, his career kind of charts the death of the traditional studio system. Right. And like, New Hollywood, where he's like, thought of as sort of part of this younger group of movie stars that he actually predated, but he didn't really come into his own until the old system was breaking down. And he was kind of the countercultural old guy. And even to the degree that he, like, embraced going gray earlier and sort of became this, like, aspirational figure for a countercultural movement who was a little bit ahead of them. And this feels like him making a movie of everything that movies were right before he really figured out his career in a way where you're like, he was 10 years too young to have played, like, the Tim Robbins character in a movie like this. And now he has come all the way back around to playing the old grumpy guy.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah. And the thing referencing those kinds of movies, that's really interesting. I. I never thought of about it in those terms, but it's like, it's fascinating that a guy whose name is Paul Newman to our generation was always thought of as an old man.

[Griffin Newman]

An old man.

[Mitch]

Nick. That's a great thought point.

[David Sims]

That is so smart and interesting. David.

[Mitch]

What?

[David Sims]

This episode of Blank Check with Griffin David Podcast Bath Filmographies is brought to you by booking.combooking.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, that's what I was about to say. Booking dot. Yeah. From vacation rentals to hotels across the U.S. booking.com booking. Yeah. Has the ideal stay for anyone, even those who might seem impossible to please. God, I'm trying to think of anyone in my life, perhaps even in this room. Ben, who's like, what's an example of someone I know who Maybe has a very particular set of terms.

[Nick Weiger]

Bringing me in and there's only one other person in the room.

[David Sims]

There's one other person in the room right now.

[Griffin Newman]

This is so rude. I sleep easy. I'm definitely not a. Someone who insists on 800 thread count sheets.

[Mitch]

No, that's a.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a. An example of a fussy person.

[David Sims]

Look, people have different demands. And you know what? If you're traveling, that's your time to start making demands.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, not a partner who's sleep light, rise early. Or maybe, you know, like you want someone who wants a pool or wants a view or I don't know, maybe.

[Mitch]

Any kind of demand.

[David Sims]

And I need a room with some good soundproofing because I'm gonna be doing some remote pod record.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Nick Weiger]

Maybe you're in Europe and you want to make sure.

[David Sims]

That's very demanding to be in Europe.

[Nick Weiger]

You got air conditioning. Well, think of one person in particular. Particular. Although it's really both of you. You gotta have air conditioning.

[Griffin Newman]

I need air conditioning if I'm in the North Pole. Look, if I can find my perfect stay on booking.com, anyone can. Booking.com is definitely the easiest way to find exactly what you're looking for.

[David Sims]

Like, for me, a non negotiable is I need a gorgeous bathroom for selfies.

[Griffin Newman]

You do. You love selfies.

[David Sims]

As long as I got a good bathroom mirror for selfies, I'm happy. Happy with everything else.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, they're again, they. They're specifying like, oh, maybe you want a sauna or hot tub. And I'm like, sounds good to me. Yeah, please. Can I check that you want one.

[David Sims]

Of those in the recording studio?

[Griffin Newman]

That'd be great.

[David Sims]

You want to start? You want to be.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll be in the sauna when we record.

[David Sims]

I was gonna say you. You want to be the Dalton Trumbo, a podcast. You want to be splish Flash.

[Griffin Newman]

You would be good if I had a sauna and a cold plunge and. And while recording, I'm on mic. But you just.

[Nick Weiger]

We're going back.

[David Sims]

Ah.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, as I move to the.

[David Sims]

These are the kinds of demands that. Booking.com booking. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. You can find exactly what you're booking for. Booking.com booking. Yeah. Booking.com. book today on the site or in the app. Booking.com booking. Yeah. You guys are the doughboys.

[David Sims]

This is true.

[Griffin Newman]

I do feel like he is the gold standard for lemonade. For like supermarket lemonade.

[Mitch]

You are not. I mean, my introduction to Newman is Newman's own lemonade probably was his Was it.

[Nick Weiger]

Did it not begin with the dressing, though?

[Griffin Newman]

It began with salad dressing.

[Nick Weiger]

That was the. The empire was built on salad dressing.

[Griffin Newman]

Guy was like, you got a bottle of stuff, Paul?

[Mitch]

Like, I mean, I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

He was probably trying to, like, get a threesome going with him and Joanne where he's like, this salad dressing is great. Can I stay the night? Like, but. Because I don't know who it was, but I know what he would do is he would. He would give people salad drinks.

[David Sims]

It was his version of the Tom.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm coming to your house.

[David Sims]

Except he actually made it. Right. He had a good recipe, but.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Like, did he then go, like, maybe we should. I don't know, Lemons, sugar. What do you guys think?

[David Sims]

You know, already doing, like, Hole in the Wall Gang? Like, he was one of the most, like, philanthropic movie stars even before.

[Griffin Newman]

Obviously, the charity stuff is great. I'm just saying, like, the lemonade's actually good.

[David Sims]

The lemonade is good.

[Mitch]

The Newman's. The Newman products are. They're actually pretty good. His frozen pizza is gonna say.

[Griffin Newman]

I love his frozen pizza.

[Mitch]

Frozen pizza is great.

[David Sims]

When you guys had us on to do a tombstone pizza episode during the lockdown, we're talking different frozen pizza brands. I said that, for my money, is the best frozen pizza on the. On the market. And I stand by it.

[Mitch]

It's way up there. It's really.

[Griffin Newman]

I like the four cheese.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

And the end. The cured pepperoni, my man.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know if I've had that.

[David Sims]

Well, you gotta.

[Nick Weiger]

We could do an. We could do an episode on Newman's Own. We've never tackled.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I guess you need to eat a lot of salad, though, because I feel like they've got like. Like a box.

[Nick Weiger]

Got a lot of dresses.

[Mitch]

I'm out.

[Griffin Newman]

Unless you just chug that.

[Mitch]

All right. No, hey, now you're getting me back in. I'll chug, I'll chug. I'll chug the dressing shots of it.

[David Sims]

But that is like a company that now four decades in, is still all pre post tax revenue goes to charity.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

Pretty great.

[David Sims]

All of it.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Kind of amazing.

[Mitch]

Yeah, he's great.

[Griffin Newman]

Good for him.

[Nick Weiger]

And Ryan Reynolds has the same setup for Mint Mobile.

[Mitch]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. All of that goes.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, that's great. Good for him.

[Mitch]

Do you know. You know what, Ivan?

[Griffin Newman]

You know what charity is suing Justin Baldon, right? That's what he Big charity.

[Mitch]

Do you know, you know, a brand I love too. I don't know if you guys had this Yaddle zone? Have you guys had yaddle zone?

[Nick Weiger]

Did you hear? I. This is crazy, because I heard on set there was a ki. Mundi has told the story.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Of that. There was a moment where. Where Yoda turned to him while Yaddo was walking away and said ass on her checkout.

[Mitch]

I heard that. I heard that Weiger did that as the crucified guy. Again. He put his arms out like the crucified guy.

[David Sims]

Did you hear Coyote Mundy on Jay Moore's podcast? He was telling some crazy stories because I think that's where that clip came from.

[Nick Weiger]

It was.

[David Sims]

And he was talking about all his former co stars.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So happy. Jay Moore has a podcast.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I never realized that Sassy 10 was addicted to poppers.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And it's crazy that he still is like, so on point. Like, I watched that movie. He doesn't miss a mark.

[Nick Weiger]

Well, he basically. He was one of the like. Like when you call action, he's just.

[David Sims]

He just suddenly lost. Yeah. Right, right.

[Nick Weiger]

And there are people who work like that. You know.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you guys see that tweet that was like Bill Simmons, like watching Phantom or doing a. You know, where he's like kind of like Sebulba. Like just like 10 minutes. It was like, I kind of like Sebova.

[Mitch]

What do you guys think?

[Griffin Newman]

Gotta come back.

[Mitch]

I wanna. I wanna bring this up because Sebalda, I wanna. Yeah, I wanna bring something. I love Sebalba. There's. Sebal was a great character.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you like his sportsmanship and his general kind of like on field demeanor.

[Mitch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Also his personal life.

[Mitch]

Yeah. It aligns with my sports team in my life and how I treat things. I. I wanted to bring this up because we're like just like Newman's Own. Where we. We come from a food podcast. We're sandwich guys. I guess is.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, that's sandwich guys.

[David Sims]

It's almost a term I would use.

[Mitch]

That is sad that we are just sandwich guys. I guess when you boil it down, we're sandwich guys. And I went to the Nighthawk Cinema.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Mitch]

The other day. Yes. I went. I saw.

[Griffin Newman]

How was the Accountant too?

[Mitch]

I. The Accountant two is like very. It's very. It's a fun movie. It's not a great movie, but it is like. It's. It's fun. John Barenthal is having fun in the movie. And. And it's to not be insensitive here. I'm trying to put this in a good way, but Affleck is playing it More like someone who's on the spectrum in two than he was in one, which is kind of strange, right?

[Griffin Newman]

In one, it's, I feel like a very thin gloss of like, that's his superpower.

[Mitch]

Yes. And in two you're like, oh, he's like, you're really seeing more of the side that he's like on this, which is, it's strange.

[David Sims]

He's going full bazinga.

[Mitch]

He's going. He's going. He's going full bazinga. He is. Griff, thank you for putting it into, into a good term.

[David Sims]

I'm trying to think like, what is.

[Griffin Newman]

The most sensitive way that is 100 Hollywood Autism, essentially. Yes.

[Mitch]

Right, right. He's, he's really doing. And, and just you guys gave me some suggestions on things to get there and I, it's just a great.

[David Sims]

You went to the night he got that interesting new sandwich which you ordered, right?

[Mitch]

I, I, I, I, you didn't.

[David Sims]

You got the tendies.

[Mitch]

I got the tendies.

[Griffin Newman]

Did you like the tendies?

[Mitch]

I thought the tendies were fantastic.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Nick Weiger]

I thought different sauces were we talking about.

[Mitch]

They had a great. I think it was like a dill ranch or. I think it was buttermilk ranch, but there was a strong dill flavor to it.

[David Sims]

It was cornflake crust.

[Mitch]

The cornflake crusted chicken tenders. Because I wanted to get popcorn too. So a sandwich.

[David Sims]

I was like, you get the regular. The Nighthawk popcorn.

[Mitch]

I, I went with your suggestion. I got the Nighthawk.

[David Sims]

Season's unbelievable. Right?

[Mitch]

I'm gonna.

[David Sims]

If citric acid, a little bit of salt. Yeah.

[Mitch]

If someone's gives me a food suggestion, I'm gonna eat it. Wogs will know.

[Nick Weiger]

That's true.

[Mitch]

I, I, the I got the Fire Walk With Me cocktail.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite cocktail there for sure.

[Mitch]

You said one of the best cocktails in the city, a frozen tequila cocktail.

[Griffin Newman]

He said that. I do like it a lot.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

And a good time. A little weirdly, a little chatty. The theater was a little bit chatty.

[David Sims]

But yeah, we apologize for that.

[Mitch]

Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Movie. Like the Accountant too. I guess you can't really hope for a totally.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of devoted audience.

[Mitch]

I mean, you guys. Griffin. Griffin Sims were sitting behind me and I was eating and they're like, I think he likes it. Like, that's, that was them just.

[David Sims]

They got the sandwich, though, which I was, I was recommending to you, even though I think the tennis was the better option.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You're coming off of a big food day.

[Mitch]

Yes. But John's Bleecker.

[David Sims]

They got a celery root pastrami sandwich, right?

[Mitch]

Yes. Yeah.

[David Sims]

That is like curing celery root in the style of pastrami.

[Nick Weiger]

Okay.

[David Sims]

With that seasoning on multigrain with, like, the onions and it's.

[Mitch]

Is it a vegetarian sandwich?

[David Sims]

It's a fully veggie sandwich.

[Mitch]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Yeah. I think it's even vegan.

[Mitch]

Wow. Yeah, I, I, I, that, that place, it rules. It's such a cool. It's, it's, it's, it's wild to me that Los Angeles doesn't have. I mean, we have a lot. Look, we're spoiled in a lot of different ways, but there's nothing that checks the same box. It's a cool bar in there and everything. It's a real, it's really great.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah. There is an Alamo in la, but it's, you know, there's, there's one of.

[Griffin Newman]

Them, and I feel like it hasn't gone over that well in la.

[Nick Weiger]

It's, it's in an interest, like, least. Yeah, it's in downtown. It's right above a train stop. But, you know, that, which is nice. It's like, it's like directly upstairs from, from Metro stop, but for people who are used to driving there, it's, it's, it's a pretty inconvenient place to park.

[David Sims]

Nighthawk has two locations in New York, and I think they kind of are what Alamo was in Texas 30 years ago. And then obviously, when these things, it's what you guys talk about all the time, but when they scale up to become chains, you start having to make these, like, strategic concessions and tightenings. And I think they've done as good of a job in certain ways as you can of still making things feel, like, cool and personal. But Nighthawk still has that, like. Right. It's close enough to the ground.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. It's like a nice local business.

[Mitch]

Right. And the Alamo, like, you'll be watching a movie and you'll hear, like, all aboard. You know, you hear, like, the, the train, you know, the conductor yelling for the train. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It is weird that the LA Metro is steam trains.

[Nick Weiger]

We keep it old school.

[Griffin Newman]

I've still never ridden the LA Metro. I want to.

[Mitch]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Never out there.

[David Sims]

That's weird because you're out there all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

I've been to Los Angeles several times in my life. I'll have.

[David Sims]

When was the last time?

[Griffin Newman]

2019 or 2018? Like before the pandemic.

[Nick Weiger]

The D line right now, which is.

[David Sims]

Right before you went to Wuhan. Sorry, go on.

[Griffin Newman]

I was tending to my pangolin farm there. Is that what they're called? I forget.

[Mitch]

God.

[Nick Weiger]

Formerly. The Purple Line is. Is closed for 70 days right now as of this recording.

[Griffin Newman]

Because 70 days is a very specific amount of days.

[Nick Weiger]

Well, it is, it is, it is.

[Griffin Newman]

New York City subway is kind of like, I don't know, spring, like, you know, like they tend to be pretty chill. Okay. It's closed for 70 days.

[Nick Weiger]

That's the span they gave us.

[Mitch]

The ring times 10.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I said 70 days, but the city announced it as the ring times 10.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Movie love.

[Mitch]

Yeah, it's Hollywood. It's Hollywood.

[Griffin Newman]

Good.

[Nick Weiger]

It's tinsel down, but it's extending the. The D line all the way west from downtown. And it will actually there will be a stop directly below the Academy Museum.

[David Sims]

Oh, wow.

[Nick Weiger]

Which is kind of. Kind of a rad place.

[Griffin Newman]

D is the Purple line.

[Nick Weiger]

Yes, the Purple line.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Nick Weiger]

Fairfax and Wilshire.

[David Sims]

See, when. When they do renovations here in the city, it is like three out of every five Tuesdays for the next seven years. The train will be on fire. Last night like that long.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you ridden the subway yet, Nick? I'm excited for you to ride the.

[Nick Weiger]

New York out here. No, I've not got a chance to do. But I will today.

[Griffin Newman]

But have you ever ridden this? I should leave.

[David Sims]

Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Every time I'm in New York, I just want you.

[Griffin Newman]

My daughter is getting really into the subway because I've been pushing it so hard.

[Nick Weiger]

Does she have a favorite line?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, the 3 train, which is sort of our train.

[Nick Weiger]

Got it.

[Griffin Newman]

But she's very intent on me taking the 7 train and like. Or. Oh, she wants to take it too. It's not near us, but. So I have to take a picture of the stuff. I have to start taking pictures of every trainer ride so I can show her my.

[David Sims]

My friend who's got Alex Perlin. The great off mentioned Alex Perlin who has a son about your daughter's age. They live off the 7 train and he's similarly public transit obsessed, but he's like, it is the best line to live off of with a train obsessed kid because it just basically goes back and forth.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

A pretty like controlled number of stops. And most of it's above ground.

[Griffin Newman]

Above ground you can.

[David Sims]

So it's really scenic.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

I love this.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm trying. I think it's a great line.

[Mitch]

You remind me of something. Can I pitch this to you? There's a Mets. There's a. There's a. There's a new scary movie coming out and, and I was on the fat guy chain and we were. We were pitching this around.

[Nick Weiger]

But, you know, it should clarify that the fat guy chain is. It's a group of friends that are talking in groups.

[Mitch]

Sorry. Yeah, yeah. John Gabris, Stavros and. And Zach Sherry. We're all. We're all on the. The fat guy chain.

[David Sims]

Three of the greats.

[Mitch]

We have a blast in there. But, you know, there's a new scary movie coming out and we were saying, like, you know, like a ring. Good ring. Thing is like the curse tape is. Is rust. It's just. It's a copy pretty good. And then all Alec Baldwin crawls out of the TV at the. Like at some point in the movie. We're saying. That's, that's. That's what I was thinking. But I want to pitch this to the Waynes. I don't know how you. I don't know if you can just pitch a specific bit to the Wayne brothers.

[Nick Weiger]

I think they're blankies. So I think if you just.

[David Sims]

Definitely.

[Nick Weiger]

Probably the best way to do it is just to do what you just.

[Mitch]

All right, great.

[Nick Weiger]

So.

[Mitch]

All right, it's in.

[David Sims]

They're brainstorming six now. They signed a deal to come back and do Scary Movie six.

[Mitch]

Yes. Yeah. No, they're saying.

[Griffin Newman]

He's saying they're bad.

[Mitch]

That's. Yeah, yeah, that's. That. This is. I want this and I want that. I want the curse. Anora.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think of, like, what scary movie.

[David Sims]

That's the thing. Like, Scary Movie 4 has like 20 minutes on Brokeback Mountain.

[Mitch]

Yes, I'm sure it's. Sure it's aged very well too. I'm sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I guess there'll be a lot of sinners. Sinners will be prime.

[David Sims]

Do you think they've been throwing pencils at the ceiling with a completely blank dry erase board for six months? And then sinners came out?

[Griffin Newman]

Thank God.

[David Sims]

The amount of eating alone, laptop keyboards on fire. Here we go. Okay.

[Mitch]

All right. So I'm going to open the dossier.

[Griffin Newman]

Realizing we're going all over the place, but we do have a dossier here. And I do need to, of course, edify you to something you may already know, which is that Joel Cohen and Sam Raimi are longtime friends who met working as an editor for Edna Ruth Paul in New York when they were young up and comers.

[David Sims]

Joel Cohen cuts his teeth doing low budget horror as an editor assistant Editor. And one of those movies he happens to work on, he basically talks about, like, one of them was never released.

[Mitch]

Right.

[David Sims]

Two of them have been forgotten forever. And the other one was the Evil Dead.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct. It was one film called Fear no Evil, another one he got fired from called Nightmare, and one called the Evil Dead.

[David Sims]

A good movie, great movie. And basically that's the last time he edits for anyone else. But it, like that relationship, him meeting him, like, it all starts to come together. Their careers start to roll.

[Griffin Newman]

So they were pals. And obviously this is the only. This is the only Coen brothers film that Raimi has a writing credit on. Right.

[David Sims]

Well, the Cohen's have a writing credit, a course on Crime Wave, which Raimi ends up directing. And then this is the opposite. But this is in this early period. They write these two scripts together. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

They also.

[David Sims]

Raimi directs one. The Cohen's direct one.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, because this is written in like the 80s, right? Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Written about 1985, around the same time they wrote the XYZ murders, which is eventually what Crime Wave is. Ostensibly. They just were like, we will set it in a sort of mythical 50s, not a real 50s. And we wanted everything to be sort of fable. Like, so things like the Hula Hoop and the Frisbee did get invented in the 50s. I guess the Hula hoop has existed since like the Stone Age. But like, the fad was in.

[David Sims]

The whammo is the toy company that has the trademark or whatever on popularizing the two things in the 50s. And they were just like, we. We're gonna do no research into the actual thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

The.

[Mitch]

The.

[Griffin Newman]

The thing with the straw, they did no research into that. I don't know when the straw was in.

[Nick Weiger]

Right.

[David Sims]

That they pulled out of their asses. But they. It's this big thing when people were like, critiquing the movie at the time, where they were like, we don't think this is an homage. It's like us being like, we love these types of movies. Why don't people make movies like this anymore? Rather than being like, let's try to reconstruct one as tribute. And they said, and I just think it's so smart. And I think it speaks to the underlying sincerity of this movie. The way they land on Hula Hoop was they were like, we want to build a comedy around something that sounds so silly that everyone in the reality of the movie would mock it. And yet the audience knows, of course this is going to work. And something like the Hula Hoop, which we've all grown up with as a given, if you try to imagine someone pitching it, you're like. Everyone would be like, what the fuck are you talking about? And so many of their movies, especially the thrillers, but the comedies as well, they're really smart in story construction of building things around the audience being a step or two ahead of the characters. They don't quite know what they're getting into. And then what makes the cone so great is that usually we're waiting for what we assume will be the blow up and then they zag it and take it slightly off kilter where you expect the outcome's gonna go. And this is a comedy with that inherent tension built in, which is like, you're ready for this guy to fail. But you're like, no, of course it works. It's the fucking hula hoop. It's a hit.

[Nick Weiger]

The Hula Hoop also gives it the miraculous joke of just a picture of a circle, a drawing of a circle that, you know, for kids. And it's so funny. The moment where he takes it out to show it to Paul Newman and then he turned, he realizes the circle is upside down and turns it around. It's so great.

[David Sims]

It is funny every time. Yeah, it is funny when they heighten it to the straw and the frisbee. Despite having seen the poster. When I went to see this for the first time, I think I forgot it was a hula hoop movie. So when they introduced the circle drawing, I was like, oh, the bit is that they're never going to define what this is. That it's a dumb abstract pitch.

[Griffin Newman]

But no, it's just for kids.

[David Sims]

And it makes the joke that much better that once he reveals it.

[Nick Weiger]

I don't. I. I don't think I can do it. Like, I, like, I. I'm not very good at it.

[Griffin Newman]

I have.

[Nick Weiger]

Not very good at it. Now my wife, again, like, loves to hula hoop. She has a hula hoop and just like hula all the time. So that little kid who does that.

[Mitch]

Hula hoop in the movie does a damn good job.

[Griffin Newman]

My wife was like, where'd they find this hula hooping genius child?

[David Sims]

He's great pro or had a record or something. You can tell in, like the tension in his body that he's got, like a lot of practice. He's doing very specific, rehearsed moves.

[Griffin Newman]

They got permission from Wham O and its parent company, Cransco Group, which is very litigious. Apparently there is. Cransco's basically only big question was, will.

[Mitch]

The hula hoop hurt Anyone in the film.

[Griffin Newman]

And when they find out, no, that's fine. They're like, okay. There is a giant disclaimer at the end of the movie.

[Mitch]

I don't know if you guys saw it.

[Nick Weiger]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Where it says, this is a fictional account of the development of the Hula Hoop. And the big line is the Hula.

[Mitch]

Hoop was actually developed by the founders of the toy company Whammo.

[Griffin Newman]

A true American success story. Like, they suck Wham O's dick in the credits.

[Mitch]

You know what?

[Nick Weiger]

I like it.

[Griffin Newman]

They should.

[Mitch]

They deserve that sucking. Yeah, it was. It's, it's. It's great. I like that they were okay with them doing it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Nick Weiger]

That's that whole sequence that ends with the little boy and hulang. Yeah, it is. But it's also just so dazzling. Like just going from. From approval to, you know, they're taking it through all the various departments. They're taking to accounting, they take it to manufacturing, they take it to marketing, and then it's in stores and we see it be a commercial flop and then be a commercial success. And it's all happening in like a two minute montage.

[David Sims]

So Raimi was director on this movie, which they had never really had before and I don't know if they ever had again since because they're guys who are very big on, like, we shoot everything. We want to have control over inserts. But they obviously trust him so much. He had written it. That whole sequence is like his main project.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, wow.

[David Sims]

Which makes sense because there is like.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like Spider Man.

[David Sims]

Yes, it is.

[Griffin Newman]

So like the montage stuff in Spider.

[David Sims]

Man, deep with details and control that it makes sense that it was basically treated as its own, like eight minute short film that has its own. Our buddy Patrick Willems made a great video about it where he was just like, this is the greatest movie montage of all time. Because it basically functions as a mini movie.

[Nick Weiger]

Yes.

[David Sims]

It has its own characters. It's its own arcs complete.

[Griffin Newman]

The guy with the. The, you know, price labels going up and down and all that.

[David Sims]

And the pitchman. Like you have like four different narratives you keep checking back in on and just following that.

[Mitch]

The. Just following the Hula Hoop as it.

[Griffin Newman]

Rolls along comes a character unto himself.

[David Sims]

And Carter Burwell going out of control.

[Griffin Newman]

Carter Burwell does black out making this movie. It is crazy.

[Nick Weiger]

We haven't talked about the Carter Burwell score.

[Griffin Newman]

That guy.

[Nick Weiger]

So incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

So the Cohens don't have a particular inspiration, they say. Yes. Kind of a copper esque thing. Golden Age of Hollywood. Sure. But they're not ripping off. It's just like sometimes it's got a. His Girl Friday energy. Sometimes what? You know, like, when the film comes out, as we noted, it does get a lot of shit for kind of like you're just doing, you know, what they did back in the 30s. Better.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And the Cohen's sort of. Well, they don't care.

[David Sims]

Everything with the paper is very Hoxian.

[Mitch]

Right.

[David Sims]

The Capra, like, kind of throughline is the, like, one idealistic, pure man who is able to, like, change the world around him, which is kind of the Norville Barnes character in a certain way, even though he's presented as a total dope. And then the Sturges, like, I feel like trademark is this sort of like we're all stuck in the crazy machinery of modern life that. That characters get kind of like knocked around, like in a pinball machine through, like, corporations and rules of society and all this sort of stuff. And I. I think it's those three things clashing together with this, like, this world building that does feel like it's out of, like in a war film.

[Griffin Newman]

Now they write this movie, 1985. They know they cannot make a movie like this.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, early on, it's gonna. They basically.

[David Sims]

Right. Like, wrote it, didn't think at all about how they would film it. Finished the script, looked at it, and we're like, oh, no one will give us the money to make this. And we don't know how to pull this off.

[Griffin Newman]

They also do not write the ending. They could not figure out the ending. They just have him jump. And they're like, we'll figure it out later. You know, he's on the ledge.

[Mitch]

An insane ending. I mean, I.

[Griffin Newman]

It is an insane.

[Mitch]

I like it, though.

[Nick Weiger]

That was one thing I like.

[Mitch]

I.

[Nick Weiger]

As a kid, I remember watching it and the moment when time stops and then the guy gets a character who's, I guess, essentially the devil, like, gets his. His teeth punched out. I was like, what the. What am I. What the. Is this movie I'm watching?

[Griffin Newman]

It is quite a twist to reveal. Yeah. That the Jan is. Yeah.

[Mitch]

Evil.

[Griffin Newman]

I guess if Bill Cobbs is good. Like, so that is crucial to them all the time, though, when they're writing it. Because apparently at one point, I think it's Raimi. Raimi's like, well, should maybe. Should Musburger be more of a good guy? And they're Cohen's like, no, he is bad. Like, there are only good and bad. Like, this movie does not have shades of gray.

[David Sims]

It's black and white.

[Nick Weiger]

It's so much more fun that he's just a bad guy and he gets caught in a big net and sent to a sanitarium.

[Griffin Newman]

So funny that that's what happened. Happens to at the end. And it's also so funny that the double stitch, which is, of course, the best joke in the movie, he's the guy saying, oh, he's such a nice man. Like, no, he's not.

[David Sims]

We'll circle back to the double stitch. Double stitch is 40 minutes of its own conversation. Raimi in the way that, like, when we covered him, we talked so much about how he loved to torture Bruce Campbell and, like, design sequences around putting him in physical pain and, like, embarrass himself. When they would, like, the three of them would physically write together in the same room. Raimi would buy firecrackers, and if they hit walls, he'd, like, shoot firecrackers at them and be like, come on, guys, ideas. Don't slow down.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, throw firecrackers at them.

[David Sims]

Our buddy Kevin Smith, when he was on the show in our Raimi days, four Simple Plan, talked about how he thinks the Buzz character is the Cohen's mocking Raimi in the way he speaks.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's kind of Midwestern G will occurs.

[David Sims]

Right? He's like, really, like. He's like. This is Raimi's energy, if you've ever met him, him, like, amplified into.

[Griffin Newman]

He did say that. That's right. He said, like, that's what Sam Raimi is like. Yes.

[Nick Weiger]

You mentioned the. The flexi straw earlier and that, you know, Buzz, when he goes and pitches that. That's just, like such a. Such an incredible performance. I mean, just like him just, like, rattling off because, like, he's doing it every. With every line of dialogue he's got. Everything is so crisp, everything is so precise. His cadence is so rapid fire. But in particular there and then he also has the emotional arc of when he gets fired. And then he just collapses into tears and says, this job is all got.

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I think, again, that's the sincerity, you know?

[Nick Weiger]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

And you are like, oh, no, you know, not just like, ah, that guy. You know, you do feel bad.

[David Sims]

Plays that scene so well for a character that is just kind of like comedic construction. Like, what if a guy talked this way, right? That in that scene when Tim Robbins, like, lashes out at him, he's doing this balance of being, like, so personally hurt. But Buzz's core, like, tenet is to be friendly to everyone all the time. So he keeps going like, oh, hey, come on, Kai. I tried my best. You know, he's like through tears trying to apologize to Tim Robbins for offending him with a bad pitch, when Tim Robbins is basically just shitting on him because now he's been like taken down himself. He needs to feel big.

[Mitch]

He. He was the. He was the guy who that, like, it was at first I was like, what the hell is going on here? When I was first watching the movie. And then completely wins me over. Especially so loud.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes. Even by this movie's standards.

[Nick Weiger]

He loves to say buddy. I like that he says buddy a bunch.

[Griffin Newman]

So the Cohen's make. They make. Well, they make Blood Symbol and they make three movies for the company, Circle Films. They make Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing, Martin.

[David Sims]

Miller's Cross, and Barton.

[Nick Weiger]

I know you both have talked about this before on other episodes, but what was. What was everyone's first Coen Brothers movie? Mine was Raising Arizona because I remember that Just. Just showing oddly on cable a number of.

[Griffin Newman]

I think we tried to help puzzle this out already, but go ahead.

[David Sims]

My parents rented Raising Arizona for me and I didn't get it. I think I. Probably a similar reaction to you with Hudsucker didn't make it to the end. I think oh Brother was the first one I saw in theaters. And then I was like, I gotta watch all this.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh Brother's definitely the first one I saw in theaters. I think Fargo.

[Mitch]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I. Did I talk about this already?

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, yeah, I figured we probably covered this in another episode.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't remember though. I remember anything anymore. Apparently Griffin likes European vacation. That was news to me.

[David Sims]

Yeah, we were texting about it and David was like, when did you say this? And in the episode, no memory of that.

[Griffin Newman]

But then apparently I saw the people reacting and it's like, apparently Griffin in that episode is just like. And I like that part. Me and Gabriel still like, okay.

[Mitch]

And then just move on.

[Nick Weiger]

Fargo was the first one I saw in theaters and the first one that I liked. The first one I was like, oh, wow. Wait, okay, so you're right.

[Griffin Newman]

You were old enough to see far. That's pretty cool. So far.

[Mitch]

I did not. I did not see Fargo in theaters. Also. Can you stop pointing your banana at me?

[David Sims]

Yeah, we just holding.

[Griffin Newman]

He's holding banana loves to have piece of fruit.

[David Sims]

You're gesturing with it a lot.

[Nick Weiger]

Look, I've had check out banana sitting here. I'm going to deploy it at some point. I. But I was I was trying to queue you up. To say what your first Cone Brothers movie was non verbally, but I was using the banana. I'm sorry.

[Mitch]

I didn't know if you were gesturing for me to eat the banana. I didn't know what the hell was going on.

[David Sims]

Walked in here, I thought you had a banana in your pocket, but now you're holding the banana, and your pants are still 10.

[Mitch]

My first Coen Brothers movie in the. The. I'm going to. I'm going to have to do a little deep dive here to figure this out.

[David Sims]

Or if you watch one at home for.

[Nick Weiger]

Well, you were going through the filmography, so maybe that'll trigger something.

[Mitch]

I mean, Fargo is definitely, I think, the first one I watched. Yeah. But I did not see in the theater. But the first one in the theater is like, Lebowski.

[David Sims]

Did you see Lebowski in theaters?

[Mitch]

I didn't see Lebowski in theaters, and Lebowski is one of the early ones I watched. So Fargo or Lebowski, like, in, like, high school or college or whatever. Renting it. Yeah. And then the first one in theaters. I'm like, I didn't see Old Brother in theaters. Maybe it maybe was Burn After Reading was my first.

[David Sims]

You didn't see no country in theaters?

[Mitch]

Oh, I saw no Country. Okay, so no country is. I guess the is. Is the one.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, Lady Killers, Tom Hanks is basically doing your, like, Southern, you know, Cajun gentleman character.

[Mitch]

Oh, so you're saying a very good representation of the. Okay.

[David Sims]

Tom Hanks basically plays a snow game.

[Mitch]

Oh, my God.

[David Sims]

Is dressed in all white.

[Mitch]

I am now thinking, is. Then. Is Lady Killers the first Coen Brothers?

[David Sims]

Maybe.

[Mitch]

What year is that?

[David Sims]

That's four. Yeah. Oh, four.

[Mitch]

I. Lady Killers is probably my first con.

[David Sims]

But you had seen their other movies on video. That's just the first one.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You were already into them. It's also funny that in Lady Killers, there are, like, four separate scenes where he tricks you two guys into sucking him off that you didn't remember that he keeps. He's running two cons. One is he's trying to rob a casino, and the other one is to get you guys to keep giving him dome.

[Nick Weiger]

Great early credit for us.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I know. Huge get to suck Tom Hanks off. Like.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I guess we didn't. We should talk about how we were both in a Coen Brothers movie.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Also sucked off Tom Hanks.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Except those scenes didn't make the cut of the movie.

[Nick Weiger]

They're all deleted scenes.

[Mitch]

It was worth it. Though I, I really enjoyed. It was a great experience.

[David Sims]

Also, the cameras weren't rolling, and it was in his hotel room.

[Griffin Newman]

We can cut this out. We can cut this out. I think we should cut this out. Not this part. This part's fun.

[David Sims]

So it wasn't Tom Hanks.

[Griffin Newman]

What I'm about to say, I think I'm gonna want us to cut it out.

[Mitch]

I'm just learning. You better.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

I, I, I think this has to stay in, though. The stuff talking us about. Talking about it has to stay in.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you think Tom Hanks has a good penis?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I think, I think it needs to stay in.

[David Sims]

We're keeping this.

[Griffin Newman]

All right. All right.

[David Sims]

I don't think he has like a. You got to write home about it.

[Griffin Newman]

But, like, it's good.

[David Sims]

I think he's got an incredibly sturdy American penis.

[Nick Weiger]

It's got a beautiful every man.

[Griffin Newman]

It just, it does the job.

[David Sims]

It does compass in the job.

[Mitch]

Right.

[David Sims]

And it's almost like it's a little, it's a little unremarkable at first. And that's the kind of plainness then it kind of. You're right.

[Griffin Newman]

It sneaks up on you.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

A grower, but like, not grower. I think he's like a bit of a grower.

[David Sims]

A bit.

[Griffin Newman]

Just a little bit, you know, like, it's just, it's, it's just all good.

[David Sims]

You see it and you're like, that's okay. And then it grows a little bit beyond your expectations.

[Mitch]

Can I, can I, can I tell you my thought? I think, I think he has a big bush.

[Griffin Newman]

Like a weirdly big bush.

[Mitch]

And just, just from when in Gump, when he grows that beer, it's pretty wild. So I'm like, I think, I think he, I think that. I think he's a hairy man.

[David Sims]

Upside down gump beard.

[Mitch]

I think he has an upside down gump beard, but he doesn't have like.

[Nick Weiger]

A hairy torso or hairy, like, particularly hairy.

[Mitch]

He's kind of hairy and cast away. He's like a little hairy, but that.

[Griffin Newman]

Was quite a noise you just made.

[David Sims]

Because the beard gets so out of control and cast away. But I do think he's just kind of got a speckling of him hair. He doesn't have like a, A fur suit.

[Mitch]

I love this conversation. To make me feel better about my scary movie pitch from earlier, which I think is a good pitch. I, I think, I think Hank, I think Hanks is just an all American in every way. Great.

[Griffin Newman]

Just like, just the best of us.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So they made these three movies. Joel Silver, the Hawaiian shirt wearing.

[Nick Weiger]

Wait, sorry, the three movies.

[Mitch]

Again, you're still pointing with the banana.

[Griffin Newman]

He can point with this banana.

[Nick Weiger]

I'm sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, keep it, keep it. So Blood simple is their obviously indie movie debut. And then they make three movies for a company called Circle Films that basically gives them a little budget to make something and releases it and it makes a little more money. So raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing, Barton Fink. But then Joel. And those movies are well received, but are hardly blockbusters. And then Joel Silver, who's the guy who made Predator and Die Hard and Lethal Weapon and all that, loves their movies and acquires this script from them, essentially, basically says he's been a big fan for many years. He wants to make a big budget movie for them and this is their chance.

[David Sims]

So they. They had the script. This sort of existed as their, like, dream project of what if someday we have enough capital that we can get someone to give us the money for Hudsucker? Knowing it's a big ask. And their agent is like, Joel Silver always is asking when he can do a Coen Brothers movie. And Joel Silver had this attitude of like, I think these guys have in them a blockbuster hit movie. I think he looked at them as having like a sort of Wolfgang Peterson type trajectory where, like, here's a guy who can make like, really technically proficient, but like, bracing, sober, intellectual movies, and then maybe over time you can give them a really big paycheck to make something kind of dumber. And they applied the same skill to it. I think you probably misidentified that these guys are going to do their own thing forever. But he was like, I want them. And Joel Silver also, like, kind of is the 90s version of the Michael Lerner character from Barton Fink. Is that kind of like cigar chomp and fast talking studio exec. They talk about as being like the last of the kind of Louis B. Mayer archetype guys, a maniac. But he's almost exclusively doing action movies at this point in time. And I think he both wants to be doing comedies. And like a lot of these guys, at a certain point you're like, okay, you've had like 15 huge hit movies in a row. The only thing to still chase now is like prestige. Like, now you want an Oscar. Can I jump over and get in bed with these guys? I should also mention that Joel Silver plays the director in who Framed Roger Rabbit.

[Griffin Newman]

That's true, he does. He's yelling at the baby at the.

[David Sims]

Beginning of the Movie. He's the one, right? Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Is that is. But is. You're talking about this as a commercial play? Is this an attempt at.

[David Sims]

I guess everyone involved is like, this is going to be their commercial breakthrough that these guys have been like, the Coen brothers have been, like, percolating, and they've been like, getting their legs and now everyone's ready. And they were like, this is our calculation to make a broad comedy. And Silver was like, I'm not in the business of making, like, arty films. I want to make hits. We have designed this to win over audiences, like, in the press. They kept being like, what is this weird, self indulgent, like, pastiche bullshit? And they were like, nope, we think this is for everybody.

[Nick Weiger]

So this isn't an attempt because you. You said the word prestige. This isn't an attempt at, like, hey, we're gonna make a prestige picture that will also be commercially successful. This is like, we're gonna just have like a. Or is that what they're trying to throw?

[David Sims]

I think he's like, I make a lot of big hit films that aren't taken seriously seriously. Can I do both? But he wasn't looking to just, like, make a little arty film on the side. He goes to Warner Brothers and is like, we're. We're doing this and we're putting like $40 million. I think it was 25. And it went up to 40.

[Griffin Newman]

Supposedly it was 25, but.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I think cost more. Yeah.

[Mitch]

Is there any point in time where this movie would be like a commercial success?

[David Sims]

Yeah. 1943. Like, truly past that moment. Not really.

[Nick Weiger]

Well, I do think that there's. There's a thought that maybe this sort of thing was a little ahead of its time.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Nick Weiger]

If we're gonna. Yeah. I was thinking something that's like a, you know, like talking about an iconic American product and it's fictionalized, you know, history. We can look at the recent mega hit Unfrosted as a modern counter example.

[David Sims]

Right? Absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

A totemic figure in the culture.

[Mitch]

On Frost.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Can I just do that? David's gonna to sigh very loud. I might sigh very when I say this, but I. I truly just want to do this. OK. Joel Silver, 48 Hours, Streets of Fire, Brewster's Million, Weird Science, Commando Jumping, Jack Flash, Lethal Weapon, Predator Action Jackson, Die Hard, Roadhouse, Lethal Weapon 2, Die Hard 2, Adventures of Ford Fairlane, Predator 2, Hudson Hawk, Ricochet, Last Boy Scout, Lethal Weapon 3, Demolition Man. That is, without skipping anything, every movie he made until Hudsucker Proxy. I'm not, like, cutting out.

[Nick Weiger]

That is wild.

[David Sims]

Like, oh, and he made, like, a small indie.

[Griffin Newman]

What is the artist romantic comedy in that run?

[David Sims]

Demolition Man.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a good movie. No, it's. It's probably Hudson Hawk. Yeah. It's like, there's the Hudson Hawks in there, where you're like, okay, he has enough of a relationship with a star that the stars like, can I make something a little weirder? And he's like, yeah, sure, Bruce. I don't know what he sounds like after this.

[David Sims]

The same year as this. He also makes Richie Rich.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And it felt like he was trying to, in a way where, like, Bruckheimer was, like, the king of a certain kind of blockbuster machismo action movie and then was like, I want to do Disney films. I want to try to make Pearl Harbor. Like, these guys ultimately go, like, don't box me in. I can make any type of movie. And this felt like the year where he was trying. And then pretty soon after, he just, like, goes back to his lane.

[Griffin Newman]

Now who does Joel Silver want as the lead of this film?

[David Sims]

Tom Cruise.

[Griffin Newman]

He wants Tom Cruise.

[Mitch]

Wow. And I get it.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Joel Silver's just like, well, we're going to make a star, you know, a big movie.

[David Sims]

We're gonna get all the biggest people.

[Mitch]

Man. I love Cruz, but I. That. I cannot see that working. Almost. No.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a little hard to imagine. I'd love to see it.

[David Sims]

He would not. Very strange let himself, I think, especially at that point in time, play this dumb.

[Griffin Newman]

Probably not.

[Mitch]

He probably would have filmed the. The, you know, the opening on a real ledge.

[Griffin Newman]

That's true. Which would have actually stopped time somehow. He would have, like, figured out how to do that.

[David Sims]

They.

[Griffin Newman]

The Cohens do not want to deal with that. They want a lower star, lower wattage star. They picked him. Robbins. Paul Newman's obviously the most famous actor they've ever worked with up to this point. Clint Eastwood was their top choice, which is hilarious to consider. He was too busy making, you know, four movies a year and having threesomes or whatever it is.

[David Sims]

But this does feel like Paul Newman in a way, doing a Clint Eastwood impression. There's a bit of it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure.

[David Sims]

The full grid kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

Newman was kind of just like, yeah, it's an interesting script. I don't know. Like, he. His vibe was basically just like, what do I care if this doesn't work? Like, I'm Paul Newman.

[David Sims]

I'm an actor for hire. And he was sort of like, they have an interesting Voice. I'm at an age where like, if this movie bombs, they're not gonna kick me out of Hollywood.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, he had a quote, some other good quotes. They call this an industrial comedy. What the fuck an industrial comedy is? I have no idea. And then he says, I think the Cohen's have a perverted vision. I think it's a good word. They don't tell a story directly. They move like crabs. And it's refreshing to find something so eccentric.

[David Sims]

He also had a line where he was like, they don't explain themselves well, but you get what they want. They have good eyes. He was sort of like, that's kind of really.

[Mitch]

It's. I mean that's a. It's. As someone who makes things.

[Griffin Newman]

They have good eyes.

[Mitch]

Yeah, it's great. It's a great description.

[David Sims]

His coolness though, that he was like, these guys are unlike any directors I've ever worked with. He's like half the reason I did it was I wanted to see what it's like working with two directors. And they are like symbiotic. It does not feel like you see two people fighting for control. But also like I'd ask them a question about my character and they'd be like, faster or more evil would be their direction. And he was like, you could get frustrated by that or you could be like, let me look around the set. Let me like look at the script and figure out what they want. Want.

[Mitch]

Because it is specific as, as an actor. Griff. Watching the dialogue delivery, I was like, this is maybe too. I think I maybe just would never be able to do some of the stuff that's in. Some of. Some of the dialogue rate is just so fast. I don't think I could ever perform it that quickly.

[David Sims]

Basically every scene in this movie is like a skill piece for at least one performer doing something where the timing is so exquisite. And a lot of this plays out in like long takes.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah. Like what you did, you know, what you did for the. The open there. I mean that sequel of just like. Because that's also a oner and with so much movement, it's just like, you know, like, like background characters are just going all over the frame and then there's just so many precise physical moments on top of the. Just like the dialogue that's being, you know, ratat it out. It's. It's just like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

I can't imagine how much precision is required to actually execute that.

[David Sims]

When he got to set, he said like, these are the biggest sets I have been on since the Silver Chalice, which was Paul Newman's first movie, basically, which was a biblical epic in the 50s, right before those kind of died. And he basically was like, here in 1994. This is like, the biggest sets I've seen directors get to build since that thing went out of style. And he's just like, right, I get what kind of movie I'm in and, like, I get to play the asshole. Like, I don't have to worry about carrying the story weight.

[Griffin Newman]

Winona Ryder and Bridget Fonda, obviously, in consideration for the role of Amy Archer. Makes sense.

[David Sims]

Ryder would have been too young. I think it would have thrown it off. Fonda made. Makes a ton of sense.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

She be great.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Instead it goes to the other single white female, Jennifer. Jason Lee and Charles Journey was cast, according but to Joel Cohen, because the idea of a fat person falling 40 floors is funnier than a thin person falling 40 floors. But they liked that he had that dancer background, so he could do all the physicality and all the.

[David Sims]

You have to convey a lot in his body.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

In like, the first. First 60 seconds he's on screen. Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

The moment just like when he is. Have it. The blue letter is finally being read that. You know, he takes it out of the. The apron. He's reading at the end. And it. There's the paragraph about how. Because you meet. You meet Paul Newman's character's wife earlier. And then there's the, like. Talks about how. Yeah. Talks about it being an affair. That. The way that their relationship started. And then you learned that, like, he's the guy who got cuckolded. And then he just starts crying. He's like, ah, skip this part.

[Mitch]

It's so funny.

[David Sims]

He cries like a baby. The feelings in his teeth.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. They wanted Jack Lemmon in drag to play Paul Newman's wife.

[Mitch]

I mean, brought that idea.

[Griffin Newman]

But they should have done it.

[David Sims]

That's the kind. That's the sort of gag we Talked about in 1941 that makes you angry where you're like, there is, like, a gross abuse of, like, power and money.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, you have too much resources right off. The Coens loved working with Joel Silver and had no problems, which is, like, rare. Usually. It's like, oh, we clashed with him or whatever. And, like, they just had a great time. They found him funny. I think they like that he's a cartoon movie mogul. They're like, this is like a guy we would write like this, like, silly large man smoking a cigar.

[David Sims]

But also guys like that, like, I mean, rudin's another one who's, like, contemporaneous at this time. And I feel like Silver doing this movie is maybe him looking over at Rudin and being like, like, man, this guy made big comedy hits and now he's, like, getting best picture nominations. Do I want to, like, branch out in a similar way? And Rudin later works with the Cohen's a bunch. And all these guys are just like, here's my deal. I find filmmakers who I think are like, fully formed artists after they've, like, cut their teeth on a couple movies. And I come in and I go like, hey, I'll just have all the fights for you. You guys do what you want and just don't ask me how I get it done, you know, and I find someone for you. And I with Joel Silver would just, like, yell at everybody and get them what they wanted and they could just do their thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Obviously, they built giant sets. The table in the conference room is so large that it had to be delivered in five separate pieces. They wanted everything to basically look like Mussolini's, you know, X. Mussolini's room, office, Mussolini's conference room. And we never see home life. Everything is work. Everything is, like, at the office or at the building or whatever.

[Mitch]

They basically.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like cartoon Citizen Kane, I feel like, is what they're doing right. Just everything's just so long, so much depth of field.

[David Sims]

Yes. And the ceilings are so.

[Griffin Newman]

Everything is ridiculously high.

[David Sims]

And every character is basically like being eaten alive by their spaces.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Dwarfing the people. They didn't actually want to use the guy, Michael McAllister, who's the big visual effects guy, who's worked on a ton of blank check movies like, had won.

[David Sims]

An Oscar for Last Crusade. You don't want to listen.

[Griffin Newman]

Come on.

[David Sims]

List a couple e. T. Return of.

[Griffin Newman]

The Jedi, Last Crusade. Yeah.

[Mitch]

You know, can I quickly say that. And this is not helping at all to keep us on track, but the banana. Why still holds on to this banana?

[Griffin Newman]

We can talk banana.

[Mitch]

And it's in. The banana has oxidized. It's. Now it looks like it was yellow when he came in here. And now it looks like an old banana.

[Nick Weiger]

I'm handling a little too much. It's getting a little brick.

[Mitch]

It's getting brick.

[Nick Weiger]

I gotta set it down.

[Griffin Newman]

This guy, Michael McAllister loves the Cohen. And the Cohen are basically like, you can't use the Chrysler Building. You can't use the empire stability.

[David Sims]

Like, it has to be no real landmarks.

[Mitch]

Right?

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Fake art deco New York. So they Built this giant. Gotta get more wipes.

[David Sims]

Gotta get more wipes.

[Griffin Newman]

I get texts from, like, home, like, over the course of the day, which is usually that a child of mine has pooped, which is always fun. I've gotten into the habit of just announcing if somebody pooped on my podcast.

[David Sims]

Can I go Bill Maher mode for a second?

[Griffin Newman]

New rule.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Anytime you get a text like that, as long as it is not deeply personal information, I think you need to read it out loud automatically.

[Griffin Newman]

Like you just did three packs of wipes left. So we gotta get some more.

[David Sims]

Just please read these.

[Griffin Newman]

It's crazy how many wipes you need. I mean, I know it's not crazy, like, that's child rearing or whatever, but, like, you never think about wet wipes until you got two infant babies in your own.

[David Sims]

This is like every time I go to Target to refresh on toilet paper. And the employees there are like a big family. Like, no, I live alone.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, you're like the person who's getting too much Chinese food and is like, oh, this is for all my friends.

[David Sims]

I like, wait until they have a sale where it's like $5 off 372 roll packs at once and they have to like, tape them to my. To carry them home.

[Griffin Newman]

Just got a text from Mike Mitchell here. Can you get me some wipe?

[Mitch]

I just, I. I heard. What? I don't know. I figure I could use some too.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah, I'll get you some. I'll get you a box. Do you want the box?

[Mitch]

Yeah, give me the box.

[Griffin Newman]

It's one of those things where Amazon is like, you've purchased this 108 times or whatever they, like, tell you Deacons. Roger Deakins, the great cinematographer, says together their most underrated film. He obviously, he. He kind of went off on this one. It's a good looking movie.

[Nick Weiger]

It's gorgeous.

[Mitch]

It's beautiful.

[Nick Weiger]

Art direction standpoint from a, you know, a visual effects standpoint, which so often visual effects is like talked about, like, in terms of like some sort of technical.

[Griffin Newman]

Sort of does the dinosaur look.

[Nick Weiger]

Exactly. But like, like, it's an art. It's our. It's an artistic craft. And like, from the standpoint of artistic achievement, this is an amazing visual effects movie.

[Mitch]

And.

[Nick Weiger]

And then obviously the cinematography is so good.

[Mitch]

Great.

[Griffin Newman]

Deans is a genius. Obviously, like breaking news or whatever.

[Nick Weiger]

Do you have a favorite thing he shot?

[Griffin Newman]

It's a good question.

[Nick Weiger]

I mean, maybe a tough thing to pull off the top of your head.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But now I want to look at his filmography. Like, because my thing with Deacons is he worked on a lot of amazing movies. So it's sort of like, yes, he absolutely, you know, was unconscious. Like on Lebowski or whatever. You're right. You're like, yeah, no kidding. But like something like that movie House of Sand and Fog, which is like a forgotten piece of shit. And you're like, why does this look so good in the night? Right? Deacons. Like, I like it when he. I mean, the Jesse James stuff is kind of the best. Where, like, I think. I don't think that movie's a masterpiece. I think it's very good. But it's like looking at paintings that are. Have come to life in a way that isn't AI.

[David Sims]

I truly think the Company Men, I've never seen that. Which is a dog movie, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Terrible.

[David Sims]

The only one of his movies that kind looks anonymously shot where I'm like, I don't believe this is Roger Deakins. And outside of that, he's basically the cinematographer version of the, like, Harry Dean Stanton rule. Where it's like, as bad as a movie is if he shot it, that alone makes it worth watching.

[Nick Weiger]

Right? Like, is that the Topher Grace one? Company Man. What's that?

[Griffin Newman]

Company Man. No, that you're thinking of in Good Company. Company.

[Nick Weiger]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's. It's like. It's like up in the air.

[Nick Weiger]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's.

[David Sims]

Act like Company man is directed by the creator of er.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not the creator. Creator of VR.

[David Sims]

I'm sorry, John. Showrunner. The former showrunner. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

The creator of VR. Going to get a letter from an estate.

[David Sims]

It is a movie that is about how hard the recession was for executives. And it's like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, that's right.

[David Sims]

That's right. Tommy Lee Jones and Chris Cooper.

[Griffin Newman]

Costner.

[David Sims]

Well, Costner is the blue collar guy. Costner is, I want to say, Affleck's brother in law who's like, you want me to feel bad for you because you guys have to try to get an entry level corporate job. I build houses and it's all of them just like playing golf together, being really sad. I think two of them kill themselves. It is like a truly.

[Griffin Newman]

It was like a real Oscar play that nobody watched.

[David Sims]

Wither, the execs.

[Griffin Newman]

The film's good. Okay, and let's talk about it. The Hudsucker proxy.

[David Sims]

You have these kind of like multiple cold opens in a row, right? Like, the film starts with a couple sequences that all feel almost standalone introductions and are largely wordless. The opening is all the Bill Cobb Narration talking about the idea of a new year in the Promise and what could happen. And the idea that this guy, in such a short period of time, has gone from the highest, has climbed from the mail room to the top, and now is going to fall all the way down, right? This insane shot where you're like going through models, you're doing these like crossfade dissolves. And then at one point you realize, oh, this one is a real set because you're seeing human Tim Robbins walk out, walk across the ledge to the clock. And then the clock starts spinning backwards and the camera goes up to the sky. Of these triumphant fucking credits. Carter Burwell going ham. This was the one time, I think largely because of the influence of Joel Silver and Warner Brothers, where they were like, we need to test screen this thing early, that they insisted on a temp score. So a lot of this is taken from the Spartacus opera. Do you have the name of the composer there? It's in the dossier. I will tell you, his name is R. I'm gonna probably mispronounce it RM Katurian. But the, yeah, Saber dance, exactly comes from this show. His Spartacus. But also. So the main theme of this movie is like repurposed from that. And Burwell was like, I felt handcuffed. And then I realized I could explode it and do a lot of stuff from there. But to go straight from like this like old Hollywood, like triumphant grand orchestra opening to then this boardroom of this guy just fucking pat himself on the back for how successful they've been ending with like, in short, folks, we're filthy rich, right? And you're just watching. David is going to take a. I.

[Mitch]

Assume the wipes came. The wipes arrived. Yeah, I think I deliver straight to the bathroom.

[David Sims]

He had like pneumatic tubes installed in the bathroom so you can get deliveries.

[Nick Weiger]

God, what a great, a great pneumatic tubes movie. I love pneumatic tubes.

[David Sims]

One of the best.

[Mitch]

I mean the, the entire, just the, the mail room just being like a boiler room. It is so, it's so, it looks.

[Nick Weiger]

So cool and everything is so packed with, with bodies. That's just like another I, I, I love watching any movie made before the 21st century when, when, you know, like now everything is just crowd duplication, which, fine, but it's just like just seeing so many people in a frame and.

[Mitch]

And interesting looking people on.

[David Sims]

And also it's like, right, that, that sort of like first dolly shot through the mail room as he's given the do speech. It's like the. The choreography of everyone crossing and the amount of different action and jobs, it's just, like, mind boggling to think about. And I do think whether or not people consciously clock it, there is, like, a magic to, like, getting one take where everything goes right that you do feel versus it having to be constructed later.

[Nick Weiger]

And it just feels like spectacle when there's a high degree of difficulty.

[David Sims]

Yes. You know, but I just love that, like, wordlessly, Charles Durning, who to me is one of the goats in this sequence, just shows, like, this despondency as all these fat cats are, like, evilly laughing to themselves at how rich they've gotten and just plays this entire arc briefly in, like, 30 seconds. And a couple of close ups of, like, what is this life of mine? Right? Like, you see him sort of, like, smile, then look off into the middle distance out the window, then, like, kind of ruefully wind his, like, stopwatch. And I genuinely. The more I watch it, the more I think he only considers killing himself for the first time in that moment that you're watching a guy talk himself into it of just, like, what's the fucking point? I've made it to the top of the mountain.

[Griffin Newman]

I have nothing else to do.

[David Sims]

I built this. I have nothing to prove to anyone anymore. Why not just end it? And then he just so gracefully, like, runs across the table, digs his heels in, jumps out the window.

[Mitch]

I think that's why people watch the Doughboys video feed every week. Yeah, they're waiting for that moment. They're waiting for the Chekhov's banana to go off. Finally.

[Nick Weiger]

The. The. It's gonna go off my mouth. The. So the. Like, the. The moment he runs out, he sprints. And then it's like the reaction of the boardroom of just everyone is just immediately going on with business as usual. Except for the one guy who is just so, like. Like, he's just bawling and crushed. Like, how can you be. It's. I. I love that.

[Mitch]

It was also the guy who. Who tries to kill himself later.

[Nick Weiger]

Kill himself later.

[Mitch]

Yeah, yeah. With the. And the plexiglass is there. It's great.

[David Sims]

It's also a great decision that I think Paul Newman is not visible.

[Nick Weiger]

No.

[David Sims]

In the Durning. So the first time you're seeing Paul.

[Griffin Newman]

Newman, it's almost like he appeared on Nowhere.

[Mitch]

You're right.

[David Sims]

Is him looking out the window unsentimental, having watched who you later find out is like, ostensibly his best friend jump to his death. But all that cross cut with. With wordlessly Tim Robbins, Norville Barnes. Going through the, like, literal. Fresh off the bus, looking at the job board, looking at the classifieds. Like, the immediate feeling of this guy coming to a new city with all this hope and optimism and within four minutes, being, like, crushed by it. And there's such a good little character detail of. He, he gets his coffee at the diner. He doesn't realize that the coffee has left the ring with the Hudsucker job opening that, like, fate is gonna, like, follow him out the door. But he leaves, like, two nickels and a penny. And then he looks at his pocket and he's like, should I give him that much? And what he takes back is the penny. Of, like, this guy can't afford to give change, and yet what he's taking back is the lowest amount. Yeah, it's a good guy.

[Mitch]

He's a good guy guy.

[Griffin Newman]

He's all right. David gets to be a bit of a jerk later on.

[Nick Weiger]

He does. I, I kind of. I mean, like, what's, what's great about his character is that he's not a secret genius. Like, he is just, like, kind of a dope. But he has be. He sees things with such clarity and such simplicity that that's, that's his, his secret weapon. That's his advantage. It allows him to come up with something, you know, like the, like the dingus, like the hula hoover and. But I, but I don't know. Like, I really just like a stupid character. I like a guy, he's just like, a dumb guy, is funny, and he's good at it. He's very good at it.

[Mitch]

Isn't the chance that, that I always feel like a movie, if it is, like, a dumb lead character, there's a chance that the movie can just be bad. And, like, I think it's a higher chance that it's like, who cares about this movie? And there's. I don't, I don't really care about any of the characters, and this guy's just an idiot.

[David Sims]

Well, there's also something too, I think, that the character so badly wants to be told that he's a genius, that he accepts a lot of things that don't make sense because they're flattering to him. Like, as much as he is not the smartest guy in the world. They make clear that he did go to, like, a low level business school. And he will say to Musburger, like, shouldn't we be doing this?

[Griffin Newman]

And. And he's like, the hula hoop is a good idea that he had and he's like, yeah. When he says, you know, for kids, he's thought about it like, this would be good for kids. It's cheap. It's like, you know, gap in the market.

[Mitch]

It.

[Griffin Newman]

That's probably all he's thought about. He doesn't have any other particular.

[Mitch]

Right. Well, you brought Forrest Gump, and he's just another. Another movie where it's not the smartest man, but then like is the most noble guy in the world. And he's. He is. He. They show him being kind of an. Like you were saying Sims at some point in the movie. But, like, comes a jerk. Still likable. He's. Maybe that's the Robin's charm.

[David Sims]

I think that's like the sort of more the commentary on the like the soul, like, crushing nature of pursuit of this kind of like endless growth and like corporate dominance is like, that's what starts to destroy him is the idea that he needs to like, become this kind of titan of business, which he then needs to like, learn the lesson from. But basically the. These plot setup that we are getting to one hour and 55 minutes into a recording.

[Griffin Newman]

We've talked about a lot of the movie already, but just keep going.

[David Sims]

We're going to talk about a lot more. Is that they realized that in his will, wearing Hudsucker said that on January 1, the year after his death, all the stock.

[Griffin Newman]

No, he didn't say any. He doesn't have a will. It's. It's that because he doesn't have a will, all his stock will be public and he owns 87% of the company. The blue letter is of course, his actual will.

[David Sims]

Which we'll get.

[Griffin Newman]

Which we'll get.

[David Sims]

But yes. So they need to find a way one week before New Year's to tank the value of the company so greatly that they can buy back all the stock in advance of January 1st. So the public doesn't take.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a producer's thing they need to write. They need to make it bad to be. To get what they want.

[Nick Weiger]

It's a classic meme coin rug pull.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a classic.

[David Sims]

Right? And their big play that Musburger puts forward is get some jerk. You need a Hudsucker proxy. You need to put some idiot at the chair at the end of the boardroom who you can blame everything on.

[Griffin Newman]

Robbins, by the way. Should. We should just note on a crazy run, this is the same year Shawshank, same year as I.Q. one of the great movies never, never seen I.Q.

[David Sims]

Is dead man Walking.

[Griffin Newman]

The following Dead Man Walking is the following year.

[Mitch]

Same year as Shawshank.

[Griffin Newman]

Same year as Shawshank. Think.

[Mitch]

Because he seems so much young.

[Griffin Newman]

Iq, same year as iq.

[Mitch]

He seems so much younger in this than he does in Shaw. He seems like. He seems so.

[Griffin Newman]

You're right.

[Nick Weiger]

He's so boyish.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And of course, Shawshank also is set over so many years and it ages them. There's like, it's years after the Player, which I feel like is him sort of graduating into a more serious leaning man type. I mean, Jacob's ladder, is that bulgermis? 88.

[David Sims]

88. Okay. Players 91, players 92. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

But Jacob's ladder in 90, which is a movie I like a lot, he's the lead of that. I mean, it's a horror movie, but still he's good in that. Bob Roberts, which is his directorial debut and he's starring, is 92 and the player is that year. So he's like medium hot stuff.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah, totally.

[Mitch]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's like after Dead Man Walking is kind of. When it gets weird for him where it's like he writes and directs Cradle Will Rock, which is a bomb.

[David Sims]

Let's acknowledge Dead Man Walking, he gets a fucking best director nomination before he's ever gotten an acting nomination. So now it's like, are you a genius auteur?

[Griffin Newman]

Right. 100%.

[David Sims]

But then cradle Will Rock, you gotta make another movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm really struggling with it. Cradle Will Rock is. Bond is sort of the end of him as a director.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he does Arlington Road, which does kind of rock.

[David Sims]

It does.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's good in it. And Mission to Mars. Like there's a couple movie he's doing where it's like, yeah, Tim Robbins, he's.

[David Sims]

Like above the title for hire. Thriller, second lead or Antitrust.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, remember Antitrust, where it's like he's evil Bill Gates or whatever.

[David Sims]

But it's a lot of like, big role. And Tim Robbins, Truth About Charlie is that.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he wins the Oscar for.

[David Sims]

Mystic river and then his career kind of goes.

[Griffin Newman]

And it goes away immediately. And obviously he's got a bit of a. Being a bit of a tough cookie, I guess. But like, I didn't know that about Robinson. He's a big personality, right? I don't know. Maybe I'm.

[David Sims]

I think he's got a lot of ideas. You know, he's one of those guys.

[Nick Weiger]

I think that rumor has been circulated by George W. Bush, who he's famously taken down a peg in as Many places.

[Griffin Newman]

He did. He did dare criticize the president.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, no.

[Mitch]

You know, my thing. I won't. I won't watch SNL until Kanye apologizes about George W. Bush. That's my thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Got it. So you want SNL to get Kanye back now?

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the moment to get it back.

[David Sims]

I'll say this. We're recording this. What's the date today?

[Griffin Newman]

He also didn't say that on. On snl. But you're like, but he needs to address it on snl.

[David Sims]

They called it back. Yeah, I just want to carbon date this. We're recording this on May 12th.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[David Sims]

I think there is a reasonable chance of. By the time this episode comes out, Kanye west has publicly says, George Bush cares about black people more than anyone else. I love George W. Bush. I'm voting for him in the next election.

[Mitch]

Which would be the normal thing. The most normal thing.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of returned. Yes.

[Mitch]

He's.

[David Sims]

People are apologize. He's gonna, like, endorse.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Okay. So Hudsucker gets hired. All the mail room stuff is. So that's the most. Terry Gilliam just being in, like, the basement and, like, all. With all the tubes and yelling and all the guys with the mail. I like the guy who throws the mail into the.

[David Sims]

What's his name? Patrick Crenshaw, who is blue and old school, I'm pretty sure.

[Mitch]

Oh, right. Yes. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Patrick Crenshaw. Cranshaw as ancient sorter. And indeed, he was in old school.

[David Sims]

Just another good character detail. I like where I think, you know, they talked about when. When this film was received that people complained that the Jennifer Jason Leigh character was too harsh and the Robin's character was too dumb. And they were like, why wouldn't you bring both of them towards the center and make them more likable? And they were just like, we. What do you mean? Like, this is so much more interesting to do it this way. But there are these small details I do like that they put in to be like, he's not an absolute imbecile as much as he's kind of a dope. And he is sort of, like, thoughtful. And the bit with him getting the larger envelope that he doesn't know where to sort because you have, like, the two names, the senior and the junior and the junior male mailbox.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's smaller.

[David Sims]

Right. And he, like, solves this problem in a pretty considerate way of like, I'll write a note, put in the dad's mailbox, tell him to give it to the son.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, There is a little indication of like this guy can make decisions.

[Griffin Newman]

Doughboys. I have a question. It's not to do with the hot duck of proxy, but I have to ask.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Someone just posted in my work slack this question, guys. Is legal seafood in Boston? Famous, expensive. Very good. Can someone explain it to me?

[David Sims]

Me?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I know you're a legal seafood nowhere, Mitch.

[Mitch]

The only reason you're. You're wags is just one week away from knowing this and I wonder what your thoughts will be.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you're doing legal seafood on the pod.

[Nick Weiger]

We are talking about legal sea foods separate words and plural on the podcast. Yes, we're doing it for our live show in Boston.

[Mitch]

Yeah, we're doing legal seafoods. A great question. I think that you can feel every way about every. Every pretty. You can feel like it's good. You can feel like it's expensive. It is expensive. I mean there's no doubt about that. But also I think sometimes you can go there and think it's not good and, and it. I think the quality is. Goes up and down.

[Nick Weiger]

But I've never been there.

[Mitch]

But it's supposed to be an elevated chain.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, it's. It's like a 60 or 7 for my research, like a 60, 70 year old, you know, Boston institution. And so I imagine it's the kind of place that people have a maybe complicated relationship with. With Certainly as it's. It's grown and expanded. It is now an airport. You know what, what's a. This is going back to something we said a while back on the podcast. But once you start to expand any of these franchises, the, the, the quality is tough to maintain.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's not Boston's finest restaurant. This is Katie Weaver, my colleague, the great Katie Weaver.

[Mitch]

Is it b. Is it Boston's best, like high end chain?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure.

[David Sims]

But what would he be the competition for that?

[Mitch]

I mean, that's the issue that there's.

[Griffin Newman]

Like no longer they've got that market. I'm aware of their market.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, that's true. They do have the market.

[Mitch]

Boston markets. Guys, is.

[Griffin Newman]

Is not doing great. A lot of these chains are not doing great. I mean these sort of like high end.

[Mitch]

The local is the local. Like the 99 restaurant logs you went to, that's like a local chain not doing great. So I say yes. I think it is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Okay.

[Mitch]

It's a step above. It's the best we got, I guess.

[David Sims]

Great.

[Griffin Newman]

Katie Weaver shout out. Of course, her masterpiece, which is the article she wrote when she went to TGA Fridays and only ate mozzarel sticks for an entire day. Oh, sure.

[Mitch]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the greatest pieces of journalism in modern Internet history. I'm not joking. When it was when TGF did the unlimited mozzarella sticks. Like, you can get as many as you want.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And she took it to the line.

[Griffin Newman]

And Max, her editor, told her, like, if you do it for an entire day, I'll give you a week off. And it's great. You should read it. Anyway, back to the Hudsucker proxy.

[Mitch]

Of course, that sounds like something we, you and I maybe would just do. Not even for the show.

[Griffin Newman]

So he gets the blue letter.

[Mitch]

He gets the blue letter.

[Griffin Newman]

He goes up to the top floor to deliver the blue letter. That is how he gets into the Newman's Office.

[David Sims]

Correct. And I do just.

[Griffin Newman]

That's where we meet the bell.

[David Sims]

We don't need to call them out, but I do want to call out because the first, you know, seven or eight minutes of the movie play without a ton of dialogue that then it really kicks in at the Post where they do my favorite kind of, like, screwball comedy. Like, there are 10 guys at this table, each of them, their only function is to do one bit and to heighten that bit. And the bits keep cross crossing over. There's the mezzanine guy. There's the sort of. Every step he took was a step up until the last one.

[Griffin Newman]

All of those guys are funny. The guy with the big bushy eyebrows is obviously the funniest. I feel like I've seen that guy in other stuff. Right. Big bushy eyebrow guy.

[David Sims]

I feel like he. He's gonna come up in other Cohens as well.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

But, yes, the blue letter is this idea of this, like, inner Hudsucker universe importance of a letter that must be handed over directly to the senior officer. And no one else wants to take it because if you fuck up a blue letter, you're done. Norville kind of gets stuck with it as, like, the. The last guy through the door, the newest hire.

[Mitch]

It does a great. The movie does a great job where I was like, did they just forget about the blue. I was like, they forgot about the blue letter. I was. I was dumb. I fell for it until the end of the movie. And I was like, oh, yeah, the blue letter. They got back to it. It genuinely worked on me. I was just like, oh, it's just a plot device to get him to where he needed to be.

[David Sims]

It's that improv principle, though, of, like, the moment to call the thing back is like, one minute after the audience has forgotten about it.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[David Sims]

You need to wait out them keeping track of it.

[Mitch]

Yes. And it's great. And it's great.

[David Sims]

You basically get to a point where you're like, I guess the blue letter was just the excuse to get him into the room. It's not important to the story.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

When in fact, it is, like, the crux of the whole thing. The fact that they say that they got stuck on the script with him on the ledge makes me think that the blue letter must not have been a part of the story.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. They bring that back as the. As the sort of.

[David Sims]

That they're like, what is the thing that he can do once he's already about to jump? That solves the problem. What is some way that he can, like, win back the chair? I just think it's very ingeniously insane.

[Mitch]

Mean, it's truly. I. I asked this before, but I said, is there any time where this movie would be a. Commercially a success? And you said, in 1940s, but if this was released this year, do you think it would be, like. I mean, just even. I guess even with.

[Griffin Newman]

At least with the Cohens at their current level of fame.

[Mitch]

Yes. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It'd be more of a hit.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

They've reunited and they're. This is their, like, right in the modern. I think it would be.

[Mitch]

It's open up. It's opened up against Final Reckoning.

[Nick Weiger]

No, I mean, it's not going to.

[Griffin Newman]

Be better than Final Reckoning. Suplex. Final Reckoning.

[David Sims]

But it is funny that it does feel like a lot of the times that the Cohens have made something that is pitched more as a comedy at the time, people are like, why are they doing this? This is like a lark. Why can't they be serious? They're supposed to be serious filmmakers. And then those movies tend to, like, age incredibly well. But the comedies, the straight comedies, are usually the ones of theirs that are kind of dismissed in the moment.

[Griffin Newman]

Didn't you.

[Nick Weiger]

I mean, didn't you mention Lebowski was not. Did not perform well on.

[Griffin Newman]

People were so mad about it. It wasn't just a bomb. People were like, they just made Fargo. Why are they making this weird bowling comedy? Like, what is this? Like, it's. Yeah, it's very funny.

[David Sims]

They've had. And, like, even this coming after Miller's Crossing and Barton Fink, they're. They have these multiple arcs of moments where people are like, you were the chosen ones. Like, what are you doing? Doing. Did you.

[Nick Weiger]

Did you record the Barton Fink episode yet. Did you reference the part in the Simpsons or the.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course we did.

[David Sims]

And the runner of Bart and his friends continually accidentally going to see art house movies and being disappointed. His naked lunch.

[Mitch]

Yeah, yeah. And then there's. Well, there was a dinner with Andre game. Right. Was there an arcade cabinet?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

Can I also just to go back to Final Reckoning for just a second. Wag said that he wished he could be put in the entity coffin to fly to New York. I just wanted to bring that up, that that's your way that you wish you could travel here.

[David Sims]

Is the entity coffin, like checked in as like luggage.

[Nick Weiger]

The entity coffin in Dead Reckoning part one. He does look like it. Doesn't it seem like he emerges out of that, like having had an incredible nap? He seems totally rejuvenated.

[Mitch]

I mean, I want to see if I can add the entity onto my cpap.

[Griffin Newman]

Morales is looking hot in that movie and it's. You got to credit the entity. Entity, entity.

[Mitch]

I was saying that after one flight with the entity coffin, the entity coffin would be in therapy. It's the big entity coffin in a sit down therapy. And I also wanted to just point out. I don't know if this is. Spoilers, please. You guys are seeing Final Reckoning tonight.

[Griffin Newman]

We sure are.

[Mitch]

It's very exciting.

[Griffin Newman]

It is exciting. I hope. I hope we enjoy it.

[David Sims]

I will say this. I don't know if you've talked to them daily. David. We have two friends who saw it three days ago.

[Mitch]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Who's the other?

[Mitch]

What's that?

[David Sims]

Is the one I know. And Esther right there.

[Griffin Newman]

People going to can.

[David Sims]

And Erlich went thumbs down and Esther went thumbs up.

[Mitch]

Oh my God.

[Griffin Newman]

Ehrlich said a dingus to. To use a hudsucker.

[David Sims]

I'm just saying, let's put it on the record. By the time this has come out, that's true. We'll have seen it. Our episode will have been released.

[Griffin Newman]

But I did say it had like incredible action. He seemed a little annoyed by complain.

[David Sims]

That there weren't enough action sequences. I just also want to to say we saw Dead Reckoning Part 1 with Erlich and we were like. And he walked out and he was like, that sucks. Cruz it up. And then I talked to him at Ben's wedding, came around last weekend and he said it's really disappointing because obviously Dead Reckoning is a masterpiece. And I said, you didn't like it?

[Griffin Newman]

He does this all the time.

[David Sims]

And he went, yeah, but I've watched it 15 times since and now I know it's a masterpiece.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Anyway, exclusive club.

[Nick Weiger]

Do you know this, this married podcasters wives named Nelly.

[Griffin Newman]

His wife's not.

[David Sims]

His wife is not named Nelly.

[Nick Weiger]

Her name's Natalie, but it's close.

[David Sims]

Natalie.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you heard.

[Nick Weiger]

I was hearing Nelly.

[David Sims]

I heard it multiple times now. I'm realizing the way you say Natalie kind of does sound like Nelly.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's a skill issue on my part.

[David Sims]

Lovely wife Natalie. You're kind of doing Hudsucker pace delivery.

[Nick Weiger]

I kind of like, especially when I get riled up, I tend to. I go into like a hu.

[Mitch]

A Hudsucker. You are a bit of a Hudsucker.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I'm a little bit of odds.

[Mitch]

Hey buddy. Am I. Hey, buddy. My God, I can't even do it.

[David Sims]

Maybe. What is the one of us who could successfully exist in a comedy like this? Deliver the dialogue.

[Mitch]

Hey buddy. My, my. Why I can't. I can't. See, this is the issue.

[David Sims]

I can't even do an impression.

[Mitch]

I can't do an impression of it. I couldn't. The. The. I would get in my head. I can't. I'm a stuttering man. I couldn't. I couldn't. The. The fast. The, the. The rapid fire delivery of this thing. I couldn't do it.

[David Sims]

They've set a buzz by this point in the movie. A little bit. I love. And this is just like the I. Have you guys seen Preston Sturge's movies? Yes. Yeah. So like my mom, when I was sick and I was a very sickly child and was homesick, a lot would be like, if you're sick in bed, you have to watch like a classic movie.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And would try to make me watch like serious film films. And I was a little brat and would usually be like, this sucks. Happy Gilmore. Which had not yet been canonized as a classic.

[Mitch]

Well, as a child, that feels like work and you're home from school and you're that, you know, you're not supposed to have work.

[David Sims]

Don't make me watch some black and white dog. What do you think? I'm gonna be a movie podcaster someday. I don't need to watch this, but Sullivan's Travels. I have this very visceral memory of my mom showing me when I was like 10, renting and being like, oh, fuck, this is funny. This is like an old movie, but it's funny. And then Film forum here in New York City would do like Sturges rep series of all his films every couple of years. So like, over time, I'd seen almost all of them and grew to be like, this is, like, exactly what I want out of a comedy film. These are the funniest movies of all time. And one of the things I love about them is, like, every character has this sense of a deep inner life life. Every guy feels like you could just follow them for the rest of the movie and something fascinating is going on there. And even if it's a character who exists to just execute one recurring bit, there are weird, like, gives or contradictions in it. And the Buzz thing, where it's like, is this guy for real? He's got this whole rehearsed routine, and he's doing all this choreography with the hat, and he's got these rhymes for every single person who steps onto the elevator. And he's, like, calling out the rhymes with their names in the floors. And then he says, like, Ms. Mr. 11, floor 37. It goes 36. He goes walk down. This idea that Buzz will make people change their routines in order to fit his rhymes.

[Mitch]

I, I, that is so on point that there's just. I would love to. I would love to follow Buzz, right? If Max came out with Hudsucker proxies. Oh, and you followed the story of all the Hudsucker Proxy people. Proxies, plural, I'm saying. And we got to see. I, I would. That's. Give me that, Give me that, Give me that. Streaming all the boardroom guys, the, the eyebrow guy. There's so many. There's so many characters that you just getting a glimpse of that you want to see more of.

[David Sims]

Hudsucker proxy, Honey Bunny.

[Nick Weiger]

They get so many beats out of the stakes of the Blue Letter, including with Buzz in the. The elevator. And just like, that's when he finally is shaken out of his.

[Griffin Newman]

He's like, tell me you had a blue letter. Ah, you know, I love, love that.

[Nick Weiger]

And then the, the, you know, the woman who ends up on the feigning couch. It's so great.

[David Sims]

That's, like, my favorite kind of Cohen joke, which, for a movie that is so verbal and they are. They will do these visual gags that aren't even about, like, crazy physicality that are, like, this woman's ignoring him. He finally, like, gets her to notice the blue letter. The woman on the ladder screams. And then the next cut, he's in the office, and in the background, you.

[Griffin Newman]

See her getting so funny, right?

[David Sims]

It's like, that's, like Simpson's level of, like, visual, like, joke density.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, I forgot to ask you if you like, this movie because you, you know, I know with a multi guest pod you tend to take a back seat, but what'd you think of Hudsucker? Brock, I love.

[David Sims]

You've seen it before.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I'd seen it before. It's so silly and fun. It's like a film of theirs that I. I know I saw Fargo first Big Lebowski, but I think this might have been like maybe the third or fourth of theirs that I saw. And it still holds up. It's a blast. Yeah. And I think you guys keep calling out the Simpsons, and that really does feel like the. The energy of the Simpsons is really in this. Even down to just like there's so many fun little like word written jokes. Like what comes to mind is when what's his name. Paul Newman's character towards the end is writing different variants of what the company's new name will be.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Barry Simpsons.

[Nick Weiger]

He lands on Sid Sucker.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mitch]

What was it? What was the burger one? There was a burger. There was something Burger Hudsburger. I think it was maybe Hudberger. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But also when you look at like when Norville's reading the classifieds and when he's looking at the job boards, it's like every single thing written there is funny, right? Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The job board thing is so cool. Do you think anything like that ever existed?

[David Sims]

I hope so.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I want to believe it's based on something. He goes into Musburger's office to deliver the blue letter. Musburger immediately goes like, this guy could be a good.

[Griffin Newman]

And then we have, we have the stitch joke. This is the moment.

[David Sims]

This is what I'm trying to tee up. But this idea that like Musburger immediately pegs him as like, you're an idiot, then decides that he's maybe a little too smart or a little too dumb dumb or a little too arrogant. Like, almost passes him over. Another, like just beautifully executed, executed visual gag is, you know, he accidentally like starts setting the contract on fire with the cigar.

[Griffin Newman]

Him with the foot. His foot in the fiery bucket is so fun.

[David Sims]

But actually him removing the top of the water cooler and one sustained shot holding it the wrong way, trying to get over there in the time. He makes it over there, it's empty. And it. All of this leads to obviously, the trash can on fire, him kicking out the window, the hole, the wind sucking him out. Newman falling to try to catch the contract, and then Tim Robbins catching him by his foot. I. The last time I saw this movie before revisiting last night, saw it at the Metrograph with friend of the podcast, Michael Taburski. Shout out Michael Tversky 2 Christmas.

[Griffin Newman]

When he coming on the pod?

[David Sims]

Any Anytime.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, not anytime. We should probably set up a schedule.

[David Sims]

Okay, we'll set up and schedule a time.

[Nick Weiger]

I guess we'll get the out of here and get the first game.

[Griffin Newman]

Bring them in. What if we just never stop talking about this movie? But every few hours we're like, all right, you guys go. Someone else is coming.

[David Sims]

We release it as Hudsucker Proxy Dead Reckoning Part 1 and Hudsucker Proxy Final Reckoning. Never mind. It's not a doughboys episode anymore. We change clients. I when I saw at that time logged that I think this is my favorite gag, my favorite joke in the history of movies.

[Mitch]

Yes, I saw that log and I.

[David Sims]

Stand by it as there is not to overly dissect the frog. Right. But the internal logic of the joke and also the like construction and execution of it of Newman's hanging out a window by his leg.

[Griffin Newman]

Leg.

[David Sims]

Right. We get the extreme close up shot of the pants starting to rip. You cut to Newman's face. Oh, no. Like sort of Wayne's World flashback of him being Taylor measured up a character.

[Griffin Newman]

That I think is always funny, which is a little Taylor.

[David Sims]

A little.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that's a great character, Taylor. Ah, Sarah, don't you. You know, like, I just think that's.

[David Sims]

I love it to make it a pan. Like he's just so, like, just like.

[Griffin Newman]

The refinement of it. And then also the kind of old fashionedness kind of the ye. Yeah, it's so funny.

[David Sims]

Now when I see this for the first time and Charles Durning is third build in the opening credits. Right. And then immediately kills himself.

[Mitch]

Griff. I this is the my thought when I just watch it, I was like.

[David Sims]

That'S such a funny joke to bill someone that prominently and then just have him immediately after the billing kill himself without saying a single line of dialogue. I know. Paul Newman has the end. He's hanging out the window pants start ripping flashback to the tailor saying but the double st stitch.

[Griffin Newman]

Double stitch wide to give it pad your account. Right.

[David Sims]

Single stitch will be fine. Right. And you cut back to Newman being like, oh, no, fatal mistake. And I go, this is so funny. They're gonna kill Paul Newman right away again. They're gonna do this bit a second time. And what a classic movie. Like this guy's fatal undoing. He could have saved his own life if not for the fact that he told the guy I.

[Mitch]

Wise. I was like, oh, it makes sense. Greed. Like, it makes sense. Like, Paul Newman's gonna die, and then he will still be the head of the company or whatever.

[David Sims]

Like, that's what makes him be the head of the company. Is that Paul Newman? Right? And then you cut back to a.

[Griffin Newman]

Second flash double flashback.

[Nick Weiger]

So funny.

[Griffin Newman]

So funny.

[David Sims]

And the guy, as you said, it makes no sense. But the guy, while sewing, he starts doing the first 5% of the waste with single stitch, as Newman told him, and goes, ah, what the heck. Mr. Musburger's such a nice man. I give him the double stitch for free, and then the pants stop ripping at exactly that point.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you guys get a double stitch? Which is not a thing, of course, that I've ever heard of before, and I only associate with this movie. But if I get a suit made, should I now be like, make sure double stitch in case you follow.

[Mitch]

In case you fall out of window.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly.

[Mitch]

By the way, Chekhov's banana did go off. I just wanted to let people know.

[Griffin Newman]

Because we've been podcasting for a time. Long, long time.

[David Sims]

Because they're showing ridiculous thing.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Swear to God. Okay. So, yeah, that's all funny.

[David Sims]

I like that. It's playing with the language of what we expect the bit to be and then undoing it in a way that.

[Mitch]

Is just like, it's so funny. And he's not nice to him at all.

[David Sims]

No, he's an.

[Mitch]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

There's no reason for him to do this.

[David Sims]

He only does it because it's a funny gag.

[Mitch]

Yes, it's great. I love it.

[Nick Weiger]

And also, who's getting that flashback? Not in the scene. It's a memory of just the old Taylor.

[David Sims]

It is interesting to think about, like, this. The Simpsons are so influenced by the same eras of movie comedy that this movie is riffing on. And, like, things in the Simpsons, like the yes guy are, like, direct quotes of, like, Sturges stock company players, A lot of the, like, big archetypes of Springfield. Even that notion of, like, this character exists to continually come in and just do this one bit.

[Griffin Newman]

This movie has the Texan businessman for one scene who's so funny, which is like a Simpsons character that's a Simpsons guy. Like, right.

[David Sims]

I wonder.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, it's so funny that he says, like, oh, you know, people run for cover, and he's like, yeller. You're calling me yeller? Like that. That's where he goes to.

[David Sims]

Yeah. But this notion of, like, is there any era in which this movie would have worked? Right. You're like at this point there are five seasons of the Simpsons on air doing a similar style of comedy. And yet I think it is easier for people to swallow an animation.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course this movie is off putting to 90% of its audience like first run like right away. I think. I think just most people are probably immediately like now off. Like I.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not saying because it's bad.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Just because it's a lot.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Mitch]

I don't think there's any. I. I can't believe that they ever thought this would be a success. I guess is my thought. Like there's.

[David Sims]

That's the crazier part.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

That's what's kind of guess. It's like you know so much. So many, so many things like this that are so great and so unique exist because of a mistake. And that. That's just like here just like the. The wild miscalculation. To think that this would connect with mainstream audiences on any level when it's so dense and so inscrutable.

[Griffin Newman]

The.

[David Sims]

The sight and sound review by the dead man that I quoted earlier. That same guy said that the single funniest joke in the movie is that it was made for $40 million at Warner Brothers with Joel Silver produce and thing. And he was just like the film is such a failure as a comedy that the only funny thing about it is why did they think this was worth making?

[Griffin Newman]

Which is sort of true.

[David Sims]

But I also like that there is this not I think like a deliberate self knowing way but there's this self reflexive quality to the movie of like this film existing is like pitching the hula hoop. Like how the did this get all the way to the top office?

[Nick Weiger]

So what you're talking about is so, so yes the.

[Mitch]

The.

[Nick Weiger]

There's so much dialogue. It's so like just absolutely jam packed with verbiage up until the moment like like to up through this sequence where he's hanging out out of the window and then we go from that straight to crack. Like next in. In chronologically in the movie is just a. A totally non verbal stretch of just character. Like all the character the business laughing.

[David Sims]

Right, right. Which is very simpsonsy as well. Like it's like three minutes of cutting from location to location as they groom him to be a CEO and present them to the press and it's just everyone laughing hysterically.

[Nick Weiger]

But this is part of why for me this movie is immensely watchable is because it's not just like his Girl Friday, you know style dialogue for its entire run time. You know What? I mean, like, it, it, it. It has these moments where it just kind of like lets itself breathe for a bit and, and. And just sort of like, it, it. It's communicated purely visually.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's not a long movie. No, like, like every Cohen's movie, it basically, like, is in that sort of hour 45e range. You know, it's not.

[David Sims]

Which at this era, most comedies are maybe closer to 90.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. I guess it's a little comfortable, comfortably paced compared to Ace Ventura.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

How long is Ace Ventura actually? Let's find out. An hour 26. That's how you do it.

[David Sims]

With credits?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, with credits.

[Mitch]

We just had an hour. We hit one hour over Ace Ventura right now.

[Griffin Newman]

The time. Sorry, Mitch. I'm really sorry.

[Mitch]

I'm not so. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I'm sorry. Oh, you don't have to be sorry, but I'm sorry.

[Mitch]

I'm. We. We knew. We. We're coming here.

[Griffin Newman]

Like great people come on our show, which I really love and appreciate that they do. And then, like, you'll. So not you guys.

[Mitch]

Not today.

[Nick Weiger]

Not us, you know, Definitely not us.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, this is just some trash that blew in. No, but like, I mean, you'll just see them. Like, I think you'll see it in their eyes sometimes, but they're like, oh. Huh. This just keeps going, huh? Like, we don't see. Stop.

[Mitch]

You brought. You brought in two chair breakers today. Mine's. Mine's yet to break, but it will at some point.

[David Sims]

Thank God we got the double stitch on that.

[Mitch]

My chair got the double stitch. Mitch is such a nicer guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Griff making my chair before such a nicer podcast.

[Nick Weiger]

I like when you. Speaking of runtime, I like when you watch like a. Like you put on a movie like Master of Disguise, which is like the runtime is like 78 minutes.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell yeah.

[Mitch]

And then you.

[David Sims]

And then you.

[Nick Weiger]

And then. And that includes like long credits and then like a. Like a post credit scene where it's.

[David Sims]

Like, you're still here.

[Nick Weiger]

What are you doing here? It's like they had to pad out this runtime as much.

[David Sims]

We were getting lunch before the record and Space Jam was playing at the tv, and Mitch, you were like, I can't believe how long this opening credit sequence is. And I was like, the end credit sequence has like four whole music videos. And the movie with both of these credit sequences is like under 80.

[Griffin Newman]

I love it when something short. It's so good.

[Mitch]

It was fun. I think it is the. I think. I believe. I think it Is the whole I believe you can fly song, right? Is the opening credits. It's so. Or they.

[David Sims]

No, that comes in at the beginning. It. That's. Come on in jam and welcome to the jam.

[Mitch]

Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

But they play that entire song in the opening credits. It's so long and credits. I think they do. I believe I can fly again. They do for you. I will.

[Mitch]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah. We did a whole episode.

[Mitch]

I also said it was. I said it was a masterpiece compared to the new one, too.

[David Sims]

And no disagreement here. Yeah. David, any wipes updates?

[Griffin Newman]

No, I bought the wipes.

[Mitch]

I mean, I bought.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a. It's a pack of 12, you know, it's a box of 12 wipes. It's one of the heaviest things that gets delivered to my house on a regular basis. Wipes weigh a lot.

[David Sims]

Here's another thing I like. In this movie, it is very unclear what the Hudsucker company does, right?

[Griffin Newman]

They make do hickeys. I feel like they make widgets.

[Nick Weiger]

Right.

[David Sims]

But it's also sort of like they're a business company. Right. The opening monologue right before Durning throws himself out the window is just him explaining how huge their business is. But it's basically just defining, like our stock is doing so well. Mergers and acquisitions, like all this stuff, they've just become this behemoth that like society rests upon and yet actually gives nothing back. It seems like.

[Nick Weiger]

No, it's. It's like the way like a, you know, like a sketch written by a 25 year old, like UCB writer who's never had a job will try to like set something in a boardroom and approximate the language of the corporate world, but with no actual specifics.

[Mitch]

That's what that's going to say. It's like, yeah, a doohickey. No Doohickey company runs that way. Wh O does not have a mail room where there's multiple mail slots.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's right. It's like the metaphor is this is like society, right? Because it's like that's why the clock, I feel like, becomes. It's like, yeah, all of reality is this building. Basically, because when the clock stops, everything stops.

[David Sims]

And obviously you don't see that much outside the walls of the building. But you don't get the sense that like, everyone is using and loving Hudsucker products. Like, I think it is pointed that the hula hoop is the first thing that people seem to have any affinity for. Like this movie is not doing the wall E bit of like, oh, everything has a By and large logo on it. Right. There's not this sense of like, oh, Hudsucker has a monopoly on every product. It's all like they make something, but who knows? It's funny.

[Mitch]

Yeah, it's funny to not see it too. It's great. Like I don't need to see what. What else they are doing. Like the fact that. Fact that this weird company could make a hula hoop in a bendy straw is great.

[David Sims]

It's bizarre and it brings everyone closer together. Well, I should say it adds more value to the hula hoop. That's not just that selling so well, but that people are like given joy from it. Minute 30, like right after the laughing montage, you basically cut straight to John Mahoney.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. So it's a little side plot. I mean, Mahoney never leaves this deck desk. Right. Bill. Bruce Campbell never leaves his chair. The little newspaper, the Argus, the Manhattan.

[David Sims]

Argus, obviously, you know, all the Daily Bugle stuff in the Raimi Spider man movies is riffing on the same kind of like Hoxie and newspaper comedies. But I do watch these sequences and especially his first monologue. If not then since when? You know, all that sort of like back and forth talk feels like him seeing you could do this in a modern comedy and still have it work.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, Mahoney's amazing in Barton Fink, obviously, and he's amazing in this. And he never did another Cohen's movie. And it's sort of like there's a lot of guys like that who the Cones clearly liked and used like two or three times. And then they moved on to new guys and they had, you know, like they were. They were doing something different.

[David Sims]

Got sucked into the Frasier sphere. And I think when he was off season one, wanted to focus on doing plays.

[Griffin Newman]

He did a lot of theater.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Frasier started in 93, so that's certainly a big thing of. Yeah.

[Mitch]

You know.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but he's great. Bruce Campbell looks so handsome in this movie. He looks like comically pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, he looks fantastic. As does Jennifer Jason Lee, obviously.

[David Sims]

But much like the Paul Newman reveal as Nicole Smith. Yes. As does Mike star Anna Nicole Smith reveal.

[Griffin Newman]

Also great as it's really funny. Genuinely really funny.

[David Sims]

But like her first film role, it feels like Jennifer Jason Lee appears from nowhere. Right. Like you have this whole extended monologue, all these gruff guys.

[Griffin Newman]

I like the guys who bet on her Pulitzer. You know, that gag always gets me somewhere, like I won the bet and then. Then the bet gets reversed. That's always funny.

[David Sims]

And. And you it's funny. Yes. You have the basic setup of no one has an idea of who this guy is. They need the story. And she claims she bets her Pulitzer on it. She stakes it that she will get to the bottom of this. And so she's going to try to honey trap him in order to find out who he is. Which then leads to my favorite scene in the movie, which is the light launch scene.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow, that's your favorite scene in the.

[Mitch]

Movie because it's because of the Muncie High.

[Griffin Newman]

The Muncie High fight song part.

[David Sims]

No, that's before that. At the diner.

[Mitch]

Oh.

[David Sims]

I think it is such an ingenious way of them having their cake and eating it too. Of like, the funny meet cute that everyone knows how it's gonna play out. So rather than have the audience roll their eyes at how cliched it is, you have two characters who basically are just like, we know the fucking rules of this universe. We, like, sit here all day and we watch these other movies play out that we're never the lead characters in, and we can predict every move of what they're gonna do. And they're betting just like the two guys in the. The. The newspaper office of, like, is she going to do this or that? And it's all framed as just these two guys have terrible indigestion. Right. It's bookended by these two guys just needing to shit so badly, asking for bromo. And then this, like, genuinely kind of romantic, like, fucking con that she's pulling to trick him into thinking that he's, like, met a nice girl for the first time.

[Mitch]

I've never related to characters more than those two guys.

[David Sims]

The Brahmo guys.

[Mitch]

Yeah, me and you. Now, through this whole podcast, probably, we ate a huge meal before we came here.

[David Sims]

We had smoked poutine.

[Mitch]

We had smoked. We did have smoked.

[Griffin Newman]

You had the poutine, too.

[Mitch]

We. We got it for the table.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, you got it for the table.

[Mitch]

I loved. I loved that. That this. It was a very funny interaction between you two. That Griff is like, best poutine in the city. And you were like, yes. Because in New York City, you really need the best poutine.

[David Sims]

Famously known 400.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, I really come to New York for the Canadian Indian food.

[David Sims]

Look, I could amend that because it's.

[Griffin Newman]

French fries with a bunch of on it.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's the best food. They cracked the code on that one. No, I could have amended that statement.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm like, guys, guys, do you want me to, like, plug you into, like, the best Malaysian food or whatever Griff's. Like, if you want poutine, just put micro, you know, micro cheese on your fries in the hotel.

[David Sims]

Curds. You need the curds.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you need the curds. I love a curds.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

To be clear, you do like the Muncy High cheer. I'm sure you do. I know you do. Yeah. It just came out at a different time.

[David Sims]

To your point, they can't believe you.

[Griffin Newman]

Guys haven't blown up this bathroom. If you guys had Mile End poutine.

[Mitch]

That's my checkoff.

[Griffin Newman]

My.

[Mitch]

My Chekhov gun.

[Nick Weiger]

Check off turd.

[Mitch]

The checkoff's turd.

[Griffin Newman]

They.

[Mitch]

He almost called it that. It was almost Chekhov's turd. And then he's like, you should make it a gun or something.

[Griffin Newman]

Joel Silver was there. Check. Make it a gun.

[Mitch]

Sorry, I was talking about Mun. The Muny High.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's the next scene, right? Like cuz.

[Griffin Newman]

Cuz she.

[Nick Weiger]

She fainting and then he carries her upstairs and then they have that whole interaction.

[Griffin Newman]

Claims to be for Muncie. She gaslights him into hiring her.

[Mitch]

Griffin said to my point, and I thought he was gonna say something cool about something.

[David Sims]

I said, no, that I like that the arc is sort of her realizing, being charmed by his sincerity.

[Griffin Newman]

She's like, he's a small town rube. And by the end of this, she's like, he's a small town rube. You know, it's like she's. She understands what's good about him.

[David Sims]

It's also what I think Jennifer Jason Lee gets really right in her performance. I think a lot of people misunderstood at the time of like, oh, she's doing this weird affectation of doing this very stylized performance that's very throwbacky. And she seems a little uncomfortable in doing it. But the whole point of the character is that's a fucking act, right? That like, she needs to do this whole routine of coming in with these fast talking monologues, like doing prop comedy, taking the cigarettes out of guy's mouths so that everyone takes her seriously in the office. Office. And it's not like what she really wants is just to get married and have kids. But this whole movie is kind of circling back to this idea that I think is like, important for both of the Coen brothers being weird versions of wife guys that they're sort of like, what's like if you just chase success, like as a end to all means, then like, what are you left with? That all of these characters are sort of like, if you don't ever find anything that actually makes you happy. Happy. You're going to end up on the top floor of a fucking building. Want to throw yourself out a window. It doesn't matter what you accomplish. And that they both cut through each other in that kind of way. And it's like Hudsucker's final message that he comes back and delivers him of, like, this is what ruined my life. But yeah, that, that she is like, slowly, even though the person she is with him is someone she's pretending to be, it starts to become a more honest version of her. Her. Because he becomes the one person she can drop the act with. It starts with her doing a different act, and then as it goes on, it starts with her becoming like an actual genuine person with him.

[Mitch]

She takes. She takes. I mean, I was just. I was thinking of how this performance reminds me a bit of Hateful Eight. A little bit. And just the big. It's another. Another big. It's another bigger in the face and just another big character. Not that there's a similar thing of she's a different person or anything like that, but it's.

[David Sims]

Look, especially in the 90s, I feel like she was one of those actresses that would get credit a lot for being quote, unquote brave. And even in the 80s, too, where it was like, oh, she does things that other big movie stars wouldn't want to do. And that's usually code for women playing, like, unlikable characters, getting naked, doing extreme violence, you know, all these things. It's never felt like that's something she does for, like, deliberate provocation. I just think she's not protective of her image in that way.

[Griffin Newman]

She's a great actor.

[David Sims]

Yeah. She rules.

[Griffin Newman]

Love her.

[Mitch]

A big part of the reason why the movie works, I think.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And I do agree with you that, like, someone like Winona might feel more Pastichi, a little more playing dress up.

[Nick Weiger]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Because she's a little younger and she's a little greener.

[David Sims]

I also think there is, like, an inherent sadness to Jennifer Jason Leigh that serves the performance well. Yeah. Even when she's playing very big. But yes, now she's implanted as his secretary and he's at the top of the company and he's going to make his big play, which is sell the hula Hoop.

[Nick Weiger]

He has nothing on his schedule except for, like. Like talking at, like, a kindergarten.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Nick Weiger]

Like, he just is sitting in this giant office doing fucking nothing all day.

[Mitch]

It was very much a podcaster schedule.

[Griffin Newman]

It would be funny if, as podcasters, we had to, like, clock in and out of work, but a lot of our work is just, like, sitting there.

[Mitch]

Wow, 12 hours this week.

[Nick Weiger]

Still complaining.

[Griffin Newman]

People are gonna be so mad at us.

[David Sims]

So I will get into that conversation with people where they're like, and what did you do with the rest of your week? And I'm like, I don't know. Read the comments.

[Mitch]

Yeah, Well, I had to watch the.

[Nick Weiger]

Movie for the podcast.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That's like an hour 45. And I had to find out where to rent it. That was five minutes.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Also, my co host has three kids, so my life is pretty busy.

[Griffin Newman]

I have so many kids.

[David Sims]

It's crazy, right? So if you do the math, that's like me having a kid.

[Mitch]

Is that what you're thinking about? Is that. What is that? What is that the time I'm frequently.

[Griffin Newman]

Thinking about my children.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

That is part of the time crunch, for sure. Of course, tonight I'm seeing Mission Impossible. So it's a night out. It's a. It's already in the cow.

[David Sims]

And also we're having a gentleman's feast.

[Griffin Newman]

We sure are. Afterwards. I mean, we're. We're doing it all today.

[Mitch]

It's quite a day for me today.

[Griffin Newman]

But I do have three children. One of them just started crawling.

[David Sims]

Ah, one of the twins.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Bebop. Okay. We call them Bebop.

[Mitch]

Bebop and Rocksteady.

[David Sims]

Yeah. It. Do you sense jealousy?

[Mitch]

I. The.

[Griffin Newman]

Rocksteady is right behind him. I think Rocksteady is. Rock Steady's just got a slightly more. He's happier here, like, chilling.

[David Sims]

Is Bebop the bigger one? He. He has fraternal twins, but there's a bit of a size difference between. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

One of them's bigger in a way. That is funnier, in my opinion.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, they've got very different vibes.

[David Sims]

They do. They do.

[Mitch]

Can I tell you something, Podcast in.

[Griffin Newman]

The future, it could be one's kind.

[David Sims]

Of more of a, like, pig man. The other one's got, like, kind of a rhino.

[Griffin Newman]

What were you going to say?

[Mitch]

I was going to say I. I've also been called Bebop and Rock Steady by people before. Get dunking on me. So I have that in common with.

[Griffin Newman]

That Bulk and Skull, of course, I brought up on a recent episode from the Power Rangers. You know, just like that was like in the 90s, the children needed to see two large fools, like, as literally.

[David Sims]

Like, like heads together.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Mitch]

Who go.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And they would, like, be plot. Is them 20 minutes of them trying to buy groceries or something.

[David Sims]

Like he man has my favorite version of that. Which is the guy's name is too bad. It's a two headed henchman where they curse them by putting them together and they punch each other in the face. I don't think we should go in there, boss.

[Mitch]

Come on, what else?

[Griffin Newman]

So he invents the hula hoop. I mean, come on, let's. Let's keep it going. He invents the hula. We talked about that montage. But it is. I agree with Patrick's assessment. It's an incredible film within the film.

[David Sims]

But you have before that you get to the ball with Peter Gallagher, which is when they.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that before the Hulu?

[Nick Weiger]

It is the fancy Christmas balls. Oh right.

[Griffin Newman]

Because that's where the investors are yelling at him. Peter Gallagher, one of the great singers. An incredible, incredible singer. Obviously like now everyone knows him as Sandy Cohen, sure. But he's one of Broadway's voice of.

[David Sims]

An angel leading men. Beautiful voice. And also owner of two of Hollywood's greatest eyebrows.

[Griffin Newman]

He does have those pussy willows.

[David Sims]

He was on Conan and he referred to them as the Gallagher pussy willows.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh God.

[David Sims]

And it is a term that lives in my head. My head all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the best. And I've genuinely heard that he's. He's quite a nice guy. Which is always great to hear. But.

[David Sims]

But yes, it's Newman's trying to walk.

[Griffin Newman]

Guys and Dolls in the early 90s. I used to listen to it a lot when I was a kid. Sky Masterson, who's amazing.

[David Sims]

He's playing a kind of Dean Martin guy.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Newman is trying to walk Robbins through sabotage. Right. Like he starts saying like keep your mouth shut and don't respond to any questions you. You know. And then it's like actually, nevermind, reverse what I said. He's trying to give him the advice he would actually give to someone he wants to succeed and then realizes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. That he needs him to fail.

[David Sims]

Right. And so Robin's like steps and it embarrasses himself in front of a bunch of people. Says something offensive and like Swedish and then goes out in the balcony with Jennifer Jason Lee and they have this bonding moment where it actually feels like they cut through to each other. They kiss for the first time. It's like explosion. Score swells and then you like hard cut to it. Is this movie being so mathematically constructed in a way a Coen Brothers movies are. Hula Hoop is explained at one hour. Exactly. It's like at the one hour mark, they kiss. And then you go out from the blueprint in the office, and for the first time, you know what the circle is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And now here's the thrust of the second half the movie, right?

[Nick Weiger]

He's, he's really holding the fuck out of it for that whole scene. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

The neck.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Ankle.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

Has, has, has he already been reported as being a dummy in the newspaper at this point? Or, Or.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lee's already dragged him through the mud.

[Mitch]

Because, because there's, there's a, there's imbecile. Yeah, an imbecile Heads Hudsucker. And then the, the sub headline was not a brain in his head. And I really liked that. It was very Simpsony.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah. Imbecile Heads Hudsucker is like, right up there with extra, extra Todd smell.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe newspapers should bring that back. Just, just like we've looked into it and this guy's a dummy. Like, it was just like, that's what the story is.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, there's, there's the, just, just that balcony scene because, yes, there is, there's. There's some newsrooms sort of back and forth that we, that we kind of, you know, are breezing by. But, but on that balcony there, there have, like, some more dialogue back and forth. And there is another of those moments where, like, she's starting to be like, he's got the shiner from the. Being punched by the finished guy. They're, they're talking in about, like, what you could have been in a past life. And, you know, he, he says, he says karma. But they also is the, the part where she, like, they're talking about, you know, I think you'd be a gazelle or, you know, maybe an ibex. And like, either way, like, could I call you dear? And he, like, cracks himself up and it's so adorable. And then, then she starts talking about, like, oh, but maybe it was. I was a hard sort of nosed reporter, sort of like, sit. Like city girl, like, like trying to. Is like projects about herself. Right. She's talking about herself in a past life, herself in a current life, if that was her in a, in a past life. And he's like, no, that kind of person would come back as a wildebeest or a, you know, like, it's, I don't know. I, I, I just really love all the, the, the dialogue through there and it's just such great. It, it, it just like allows her to play the subtext so strongly and she's so effective at it.

[David Sims]

I also think there's something in both of them have these kind of like preconceived biases against the type of person the other one is. Right. That she's this like hard boiled city girl who thinks a country bumpkin is naturally an idiot and he thinks a person like that must be like a heartless cynical monster. And that they're in having these weird conversations they both kind of quietly realize that like at their core they are sort of the same in the things they value and what they care about. And.

[Mitch]

And that's sincerity. Like you were saying, there's a sincerity in the movie.

[David Sims]

There is.

[Mitch]

There it is that to that piece of reviewer from the 90s who's passed away. Rest in peace. Who died tragically but still I don't.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know anything about him.

[David Sims]

He gets them to approve the. The Hula Hoop and you have this unbelievable a hit and like you talk about like sketch comedy logic business company. The idea there being an entire room that's just how much will it cost on like a big banner up top and guys going back and forth and just naming prices.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's really funny.

[David Sims]

I think it's really dummy that they.

[Griffin Newman]

Guy that's the one. Yes dollar like that is.

[David Sims]

That does seem stroking their chin and that when you have the. The pitch room guys trying to come up with the name the secretary at the front every time they cut to her is reading a different like mammoth book book. She goes through War and Peace and Anna Karenina.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Funny, funny stuff.

[Mitch]

I don't know. I like. I like when the, when it's taking off and the price, they, they just. The price goes up and up and the new sticker. It's great. All that stuff is fantastic.

[Griffin Newman]

I do think the second half, it's really less than half but is a little less propulsive and awesome than the first.

[David Sims]

Sure. Because it's the fall. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's like the comedy's still there. And I think the ending of this movie is wonderful. Like just visually and dynamically and like the big fight with the janitor and Bill Cobbs and all that. And like the gears all that's great. I just felt myself drifting slightly. I'm so engaged by everything up to the hula hoop being created. And it is partly because you need him to suddenly become a jerk. So now he's this kind of withdrawn character and you need him to not do anything. The straw bits. Fun, funny. Like you know there's stuff that's funny like the, the asides.

[David Sims]

Well I also like that there's Steve.

[Griffin Newman]

Buscemi as a beatnik.

[David Sims]

Is funny acknowledging the like the life cycle of fads, right. That this guy is so ready to coast off the success of the Hula Hoop for the rest of time. And you're already seeing it fade, right? You have the original montage. Then you have the John Goodman news reel of like this is credited as.

[Griffin Newman]

Carl Mundt, his partner character Martin Fink, the serial killer, not the nice guy.

[David Sims]

And he makes the joke of like I don't see what all the hoopla is about. And then you see him try it a second time and already it's starting to fall off. And it's when you get to Buzz pitching him the straw, he like needs to shit on Buzz in order to reaffirm his own greatness. Like he goes like this is moronic. You see the thing that makes an idea like I don't know, the hula hoop so great where like it's this thing that these guys need to do which is like tell you why they're so smart.

[Griffin Newman]

Nah, capitalism's good.

[Mitch]

You're wrong.

[Nick Weiger]

And he hits him with the, you know, we don't crawl here at Hudsucker with the same Paul Newman hits them. Just a great callback. I, I, I, I like yeah, it's interesting what you say about the second half. I really do like the second half of this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

All right, I'm wrong.

[Nick Weiger]

No, no, I'm not, I'm not even saying I disagree with you. I'm, I'm, I'm more trying to like, like interrogate in my own head. Is like, is it, is it a little bit less fun and is that just inherent to, to the, the what you were saying of just like it being the. Yeah, it being the fall. But, but, but one thing I will say is like there is an overall joke to this movie which is just how compressed the time frame is that absolutely everything is happening within a 30 day time limit. And that, that you know, he's going from mail room where he's being or he's getting from his orientation the mail room to being company president in the same day because somewhat, because the company CEO committed suicide earlier that morning.

[Mitch]

Which the bell on the ride up that he was in the mail. Mail room in the bellboy and then on the ride down with the bellboy, he is the pres. Basically the president. It's very funny.

[David Sims]

And the news hasn't even reached Buzz yet. Yeah, Buzz doesn't know like how that blue letter go. It's another One of my favorite jokes in the movie is when he brings Jennifer Jason Lee back and he's like, I'm going to get you a job here at the company. And I know just where there's an opening. And he buzzes down to the supervisor in the mail room.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he goes like, hello, this is Norville Barnes. He goes, barnes, where are you? I've been waiting for you for four days. And he goes, I don't know if you heard, but I'm the president of the company now. And he goes, I don't care if you're the president of the company.

[Nick Weiger]

That he emphasizes president.

[David Sims]

Right. That it's just the same thing repeated back. Yeah.

[Mitch]

Also, there. There was a. There was one thing we skipped over there. A pretty good Eisenhower cameo.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, him saying like that is so funny.

[David Sims]

I thank you and my wife thanks.

[Griffin Newman]

Mrs. Eisenhower is proud of you.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It. Because it, It's. It just. It would be. It's just so funny that it's a picture of him like that just. They just slide in the picture of him.

[David Sims]

It's also so funny that plus years later, Aaron Sorkin basically tries to do the earnest version of that at the end of Being the Ricardos.

[Griffin Newman]

That is what happens. You're right.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Where he's Tiger Hoover is like, absol. There's nothing weird about me.

[David Sims]

I Love Lucy. And then everyone applauds.

[Griffin Newman]

Eisenhower rocks. What a weird guy.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I like Ike. Yeah, I'm a fan.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I like Ike, too.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, great.

[Nick Weiger]

What's your favorite thing he did?

[Griffin Newman]

You're asking me specifically? Mississippi schools is probably the genuine answer. Or winning the war. But. But he did some bad stuff too. Or warning us about the military industrial.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, that was good. I was a fan of his, of the White House physician announcing he had like, an unremarkable.

[Mitch]

Wait, really?

[Griffin Newman]

He was just like. Yeah, I looked at it. Nothing special.

[Nick Weiger]

There was like a whole thing of like, he had a. He was sick. And they were like the, they. They were being very cagey about it. And so the White House released, like, the physician released an extremely explicit letter. Letter just like sort of detailing what. What had happened and what was unremarkable about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry, Arkansas. Yeah, no, Eisenhower, like, when he was leaving the office, he was like, by the way, like, it's kind of fucked up that the military and like, big business are kind of like, you know, turning into this big evil thing that's going to like, kind of take over society. And I call it the military industrial complex. Anyway, I'll see you later. And everyone's like, I feel like he's right about.

[David Sims]

He was on point and then like.

[Griffin Newman]

No one did anything about it.

[Mitch]

You know what I like about him? I like him in this movie. I don't know, I just. I like his work. I don't know too much of his other work. I'm not really believe that from there, but he's great.

[Griffin Newman]

I like that picture where he looks really fabulous. Do you know the picture I'm talking about?

[Nick Weiger]

Which one?

[Griffin Newman]

There's this picture where he's like serving and the Internet got kind of obsessed with it.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, I never saw this get beamed. That's a great picture.

[Mitch]

Oh, that's great.

[Griffin Newman]

That is like a picture of him in his uniform.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Do you guys know about the. The Peter Principle? Explain.

[Griffin Newman]

And now. It was originally on the clock now. I did do an Eisenhower bit.

[David Sims]

Yep.

[Mitch]

It was a family guy.

[David Sims]

A book that was originally meant to be satirical, isn't it?

[Griffin Newman]

It's like the stupider you are, the higher you rise and. But it's something like that, right?

[David Sims]

It's basically saying that everyone will succeed to a level of relative incompetence at the higher level companies you get promoted.

[Griffin Newman]

To beyond your competency. And there you shall say that basically.

[David Sims]

Everyone gets over promoted. Like one time in organizations like this past their actual ability. And then rather than ever getting demoted or fired, the people. People just stay there. So the higher up you get, the worse people are because that's where people kind of like hit their limit.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I've heard of this phenomenon. I haven't heard the. The Peter Principle, specifically.

[Griffin Newman]

There was also the Dilbert principle, wasn't there?

[David Sims]

Tell me about it.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

But it wasn't all neckties.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I'm sorry. It actually. Remember how, like first it was like they just put out Dilbert books of the strips.

[David Sims]

Right. But then, Scott, we would read them and go, God, this guy sounds like such an alpha. Whoever's writing these got a chiseled torso. The guy drawing Dilbert must so good.

[Griffin Newman]

But then he would also write like management comedy books. Like. Like text books.

[David Sims]

That was actually the early warning sign, the Dilbert Principle.

[Griffin Newman]

And it must have been like joking about like a riff on the Peter Principle.

[David Sims]

But we should have known at that moment the second that the guy took the success of the comic strip to be like. But actually Dilbert's serious.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[David Sims]

I have things I want to say about.

[Griffin Newman]

I know he's.

[Mitch]

I know he.

[Griffin Newman]

He's, you know, a bit of an online figure. Mr. Scott Adams was He always a weirdo or is he one of those classic like 10 years of Twitter rotting his brain?

[David Sims]

Always bad has only gotten worse.

[Nick Weiger]

He was also always super online. Like he was like a pen before.

[Griffin Newman]

No one was online.

[Nick Weiger]

Like very, very early Internet, like Usenet, you know, use groups.

[David Sims]

But he wasn't like a, like a Dennis Miller, hard swing after 911 guy or Ron Silver, Graham Linehan or any of those guys who like have a moment something up with that. He went from being funny to really funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Dilbert, the cartoon Good, Incredible opening credits. Yeah, one of the best.

[David Sims]

That was Larry Charles.

[Griffin Newman]

That's pretty funny. Yeah, Dilbert was. Dilbert was good.

[David Sims]

But yeah, great theme song. Great animation in the opening.

[Griffin Newman]

Dogbert, he's a dog with glasses. He's like mean.

[Mitch]

Is there.

[Griffin Newman]

Is there, there's. Oh, you never saw Caer.

[Mitch]

I never. I didn't know about Cat. Catbird.

[Griffin Newman]

My whole thing is that I would read those comics and Catbird is the HR guy. Like that's the joke.

[Nick Weiger]

And like.

[Griffin Newman]

And I'm just like, what the was like 11 year old David being like, Ah, yeah, HR always on your ass. Like, what did I.

[Mitch]

Why was I Cat Bird.

[Griffin Newman]

Remember Catbird?

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I remember catb.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And then there was Ratbert.

[Nick Weiger]

I can't remember Ratbert specifically.

[Griffin Newman]

And then there was a dinosaur.

[Nick Weiger]

Okay, so this, the. So this they. They started adding more new characters as that.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, I think a lot of the, the. The initially Dilbert was heavier on the. The animals and a lot of them got kind of pulled back. He kind of built out the humans and there's, then there's the cast. Like there's the boss and the lady with the triangle hair and all that.

[David Sims]

Jason Alexander was Cat Bert. Chris Elliott was Dogbert.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sure they were great.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And Daniel Stern was Dilbert.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Right.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

That's a damn good cast.

[David Sims]

Damn good.

[Griffin Newman]

Bring it back.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, bring it back.

[Griffin Newman]

Money flowing to Adam. Like, is Dilbert still running? Like, can I read a new Dilbert?

[David Sims]

Great question.

[Griffin Newman]

And he like writes it.

[David Sims]

Great question.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, that is a great question.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's not insane.

[Mitch]

It has to be insane. Yeah, there's no way it's not insane.

[Griffin Newman]

Is he just like phoning that in and then all day he tweets. But then Dilbert is just like the pointy hair boss being like, do those emails. And Dilbert's like, ah, fuck this.

[David Sims]

Okay, here's the question. Would this movie have been a hit.

[Mitch]

If Dilbert was the star?

[David Sims]

If three years later the script was repurposed into a live action Dilbert movie that it's basically the same film but mapped onto the Dilbert cast.

[Mitch]

So Paul Newman is playing cat Burt, I guess.

[David Sims]

Pointy haired boss.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, pointy haired boss.

[Mitch]

Oh, pointy haired boss. Sorry. I clearly don't know Dilbert as much as you guys do. And I'm shocked that you guys know as much as you do about Dilbert.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh my God. Dilbert.

[Nick Weiger]

Big comic stripper.

[Griffin Newman]

There is no Dilbert. You know, new Dilbert cartoons. And if you go to the website site, there is a drop down. Why did Dilber get canceled? If you believe the mo news, it's because I'm a big old racist. Context. No news about public figures is ever true. Jesus. So you know, he's doing great.

[Mitch]

He's doing all right.

[Griffin Newman]

Hudsucker. Proxy Griff. Any more on this?

[David Sims]

Any more on this? No. You have like the rapid fall. The, the only sequence every time I watch this movie that I bump on and question if it's a mistake is the weird Tim Robbins dream sequence. That feels like a guest jeans ad or something.

[Mitch]

Is that the dance sequence? Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's going on there? Exactly?

[David Sims]

I don't, it just feels like an odd stylistic swing away, I guess, in the start of his spiral down.

[Griffin Newman]

And it might be one of those things again as an audience member maybe in 1994, where you're kind of like, how many more sort of of switches in format are you gonna throw at me? You had the news reels, right? You had the big band sequence, right? Like where it does start to get a little overwhelming.

[Mitch]

I love Buzz. I love Buzz chasing after him with a big mob. That's all great stuff. The ending is. In the, the end, the ending stretches. It's an insane stretch. But I, I, I love it.

[David Sims]

So I just checked it. It, it's, she comes in, he's like, hot shot. They, the people have the old timey hand massagers on his face.

[Griffin Newman]

Love those fingers. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Motorized gloves.

[Mitch]

That's great. Those are great, right?

[David Sims]

And she slaps him in the face because of how arrogant he's become. Then he goes in the dream sequence and when he wakes up, it's like everyone's gone. The office is dark. And that's when Buzz pisses him.

[Griffin Newman]

The straw, the straw thing, right? And all that. And then, but then he gets immediately after, right?

[David Sims]

It's, it's him being called into Musburger's office or the big board room after golf trip. And he's like, buzz claims that you stole his idea for the hula hoop. But that's not even the real problem. I figured out who the reporter is. You let her into the hen house and gone. We're going to have you declared insane.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And we're having you institutionalized. And then he's. Then he's at the beatnik bar with Buscemi.

[David Sims]

A detail I love in that scene is that it feels like the most genuine moment from Newman. And his performance, in a way is he's saying, you know, Buzz says you stole this idea. And by the way, there's no problem with that. You know, he's nothing. People like that need to be put down. There's this moment of him talking to him as if he were a real executive, CEO to CEO, where he's like, by the way, if I respected you, I would tell you that the right thing to do is to start treating people like now. Even though this has all been a setup. But yes, then it's like precipitous fall.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And then we're. We're on to Norville's suicide. You know, we're on to. He. He's drunk and he. He's going to jump.

[David Sims]

It does happen pretty quick.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, it's very rapid. Like the last.

[David Sims]

Yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

The last half of plot in this movie is 10 minutes.

[David Sims]

They send him to the head shrinker, they watch it on a film reel. He goes to the bar, he meets Buscemi. It's a good bit of like he can't get a drink.

[Mitch]

Yeah. Only they only serve juice. Right.

[David Sims]

Like, it's like juice and coffee, I think.

[Mitch]

Juice and coffee.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

Carrot juice maybe.

[Griffin Newman]

What do we think of the device that clock? The janitor is an all knowing sort of godlike figure. Angel.

[David Sims]

Right. So you have this earlier scene where Jennifer Jason Lee's snooping around.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And she goes through the gears of the clock. Because basically the clock is the midpoint between the Musburger office and Hudsucker's office that Norvell takes over. And he has this one sort of info dump of like, I know everything. I'm ahead of the plot. I know where this is going. Right. Like I'm all seeing. I think it's the first time you've seen him on camera since the open narration.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, pretty much. So there's been chatting. Right. In voiceover.

[Nick Weiger]

Can we just talk about those gears? God, what's incredible looking gears up there with Castle Cagliostro as far as like a.

[David Sims]

Gears. Great. Mass detective and all these.

[Griffin Newman]

Mass detective. Yeah. Bring back a big clock.

[David Sims]

Tick Tock clock.

[Nick Weiger]

Like for Mario 64.

[Mitch]

Yeah. It's right up there with Tick Tock Clock.

[David Sims]

There's like almost nothing I love more than a big practical set where things are moving.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And you're like, this is rigged. You know, like, this is motorized or like 20 guys are like pulling levers to make this set operate this like, phony machinery.

[Griffin Newman]

Is there a Tick Tock Clock? Mario Kart, I think where there's like, you know, conveyor belts going. One's going one way, one's going the other.

[Nick Weiger]

I feel like that was I. I know the market. Mario Kart Cannon last.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

There is a level when this movie was about to come out and they were doing press and it had not test screened well and they went back for reshoots and the press was like, is this about to be Joel Silver's costly flop? Why did he bet on the Coen brothers? He said, like, we do reshoots in all of our movies. They have final cut. Which they did. There was nothing forced upon them.

[Griffin Newman]

Warner Brothers wanted nothing about this movie screams studio.

[David Sims]

I had their back. And they said, we've heard that you did reshoots to add a fight scene.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he said, nothing was imposed on us. When we were in the edit, we all collectively agreed that there was something that was missing.

[Mitch]

Right.

[David Sims]

I don't know if that means that the entire fight scene was added. I wonder what pieces were added. It is the one thing in the movie that still feels like from their pen, but does feel like, do we need something more exciting at the end?

[Griffin Newman]

A little out of nowhere that the guy who replaces the signs on the doors is the villain all of a sudden.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, it's fine. I don't have a problem. I like it. It's funny. And I like his teeth falling out and all that. Like, it's cool.

[David Sims]

There is using them to stop the gears.

[Nick Weiger]

There is the moment earlier. Were you about to say something?

[Mitch]

No, I just. I like the teeth in the gears as well.

[Nick Weiger]

I love the teeth in the gears. There was a, There was the moment earlier where you see him looming over Musburger's shoulder as if he's the guy who's giving him the intel or improving. Approving the intel that, that she's actually the reporter or.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Nick Weiger]

Which ultimately leads to his as downfall. So I, I, I think that they are trying to seed at least these some sort of shadowy figure. But, but again, just this, everything's so arch that I think they, I do think it feels like he is the literal Devil. Like, it's like we have one character who seems to be.

[Griffin Newman]

Like an angel.

[David Sims]

Right. He says, like, I know just about everything that happens, at least within this building. And it feels like him almost covering for the. The fact that he's admitting that he knows everything.

[Griffin Newman]

Great. Bill.

[David Sims]

Cops. We only lost him last year.

[Griffin Newman]

I know. He died at the age of 90.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, I like all this. I think the Coen brothers are like weirdly underrated as action filmmakers because no country is one of the only films where they get.

[Griffin Newman]

They didn't make a lot of action movies. But there are basically no one better at like visual communism than the Coen brothers.

[David Sims]

The relationship between Spielberg objects.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I mean the Cohen's never tried to do, I guess. Right. A gigantic scale action sequence. Probably would have done a good job if they did.

[David Sims]

True Grit kind of has an anti set piece like they.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is from the book. It's like, it's not even like that. It's. The Coens are peeling it back. It's like. Yeah, the whole thing with True Grit is it builds to something that's quite short and sudden, you know, which rocks. Fill your hands, you son of a bitch. It's the best fucking line in any movie ever.

[Mitch]

Ever.

[David Sims]

Said he likes to pull the cork.

[Griffin Newman]

He does like to pull the clock.

[Mitch]

I did wonder if I was like, are they going to like. Is a. Is he going to pull the hand of the clock back to get him.

[Griffin Newman]

Back on the ledge Superman style And then.

[Mitch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reversing time or whatever. And then it is just funny that it stopped at just a great time and he just can fall right to the ground.

[David Sims]

I like the internal logic of it and that they realize that these kinds of comedies need the plotting of like two steps forward, one step back.

[Mitch]

Sure, yeah.

[David Sims]

Like Norville gets in the office, but then he it up. But then he saves it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Where it's like he falls but they stop the clock. But it doesn't stop all the way way. It's just enough that the fall doesn't kill him.

[Mitch]

It's great.

[David Sims]

And what actually saves him is Hudsucker.

[Mitch]

Himself and Hudsucker as an angel. Come on. You get to see Hudsucker.

[Griffin Newman]

Come on Halo.

[David Sims]

I mean, yeah, the hula hoop Durning's just incredible. I know a lot of it is just like presence and like this guy being such a pro at this point in time and the visual, but he just nails this.

[Griffin Newman]

Durning's good.

[Mitch]

Can I. Can I also say that Jennifer Jason Lee, when she has her. Her. When she says goodbye to the newsroom. That whole scene is when she. She keeps just saying, shut up. Like, she says that over and over again, I think.

[Nick Weiger]

Very funny.

[Mitch]

It's great. It's great. It's a great, great moment for her, too.

[David Sims]

Yeah. But yeah, no, Hudsucker imparts on to him that, like, life is meaningless if you don't care about other people. If you're just pursuing success and saves him just in time to be able to write the. The wrong. And also just calls out like, you idiot. You never open the blue letter.

[Mitch]

Right?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It is him. Right. Saying like, that is not a dangling. Like, that's not a forgotten plot thread. That is a dangling plot thread. It is time for you to resolve it.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Open the blue letter.

[David Sims]

Right. And what's. I, I.

[Griffin Newman]

That resolves the movie.

[David Sims]

But such a good touch within it is that he is like, I bequeath my stakes to whoever is appointed CEO in my absence, which I assume will be Sid Sydney. But in the weird circumstance that for some reason you place whoever else in the chair, then it goes to that guy that, like, Musburger, if he had done nothing, would have had control of the company.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. It's a good gag. Yeah. Instead, he gets caught with a big butterfly net and he goes to Looney Bend.

[David Sims]

Yeah. How all movies should end.

[Griffin Newman]

Pretty much.

[David Sims]

Yeah. That's how Zero Dark Thirty should have ended. The Chris Pratt goes in with a big butterfly net.

[Mitch]

That's how he gets.

[David Sims]

He gets in a straight jacket. His eyes are like spinach.

[Griffin Newman]

How thin it was. It was like, oh, Chris Pratt's in, like, a soldier outfit. And now it's like, yeah, of course. Chris Pratt's always in, like, military fatigue, like, with a giant gun. It's just his normal state of being.

[Mitch]

I served with him in the Tomorrow.

[David Sims]

And thank you for your service.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[Mitch]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

You did serve in the Tomorrow War. Oh, boy. So the film. Film didn't do very well, Griffin, I'm sorry to say. It made one third of a black hat domestically.

[David Sims]

I just want to. Just to close the loop. He runs back to the coffee shop after the stroke of midnight and does the muncie hand sign to her. And I find it very.

[Mitch]

Oh, that is nice.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's nice. It's just like, look, it's. It's classic movie construction thing. I just love when you can, like, create something within the language of your own movie that did not exist previously and bring it back in and have. Have it suddenly have gained greater emotional weight.

[Griffin Newman]

Nick's just looking at his empty peel now.

[David Sims]

Wordless exchanges.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't you think it's funny that the Cohens have this early success? They win the Palme d', or, they get all, you know, like. Then they make kind of, like, what they're. They're like a comedy for, like, people, you know, for kids almost, Right? Where it's like, we made a big budget movie for you guys that's funny and, like, action packed. And everyone's like. And they're like, I guess they'll make a movie about. About, like, Minnesota people pushing bodies into wood chippers and. And everyone's like, yes, thank you.

[David Sims]

This is what we wanted from you. This is what. More of this. The darker they go, the more people applaud them. And whenever they try to make something funnier, people are like, what the. Is this dumb?

[Griffin Newman]

You want, like, a divorce? You know, attorney comedy with, like, George.

[David Sims]

Clooney burning up sexiest movie stars? Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And can, like, Javier Bardem murder people with a cow pistol? Like, can we have that?

[David Sims]

Can Tommy Lee Jones, like, basically look to the audience and explain, maybe humanity should be eradicated?

[Mitch]

Right.

[David Sims]

It's like anytime they try to make a crowd pleaser, people are, like, frowning and crossing their arms.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, they're two biggest flops because Intolerable cruelty is. And Lady Killers, and it's like. Are these sort of screwball things. And that's probably why I like them so much.

[David Sims]

I agree. And I. I think Burn After Reading and Hail Caesar were both kind of dismissed in the moments as being, like, weird.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, I don't.

[David Sims]

Like, Burn after is a masterpiece, and I hope you come around.

[Griffin Newman]

I hope I do, too. Hail Caesar.

[Mitch]

I love Burn After Reading is the.

[Griffin Newman]

One time where I was like, ah, this is too dark or too, like, I don't like anything about it. And it's, like, setting. It's not like. I think it's, like, terrible, but it always set my teeth on edge a little bit.

[David Sims]

But Big Lebowski has undeniably become their biggest movie in the public consciousness and is basically their guarantor for life. I would say, at this point. This point retroactively. And at the time, people were like, they're making a stoner comedy. Like, this is a movie where the. Like, like, they admit the plot doesn't matter.

[Mitch]

Big Lebowski now just exists as super bowl commercials. It's gonna be, like, super bowl commercials for the next, like, decade.

[David Sims]

Like, Jeff Daniels, like, goes around wearing the sweater and, like, doing, like.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, basically just doing bora.

[David Sims]

Other Jeffs are able to cash in on any.

[Mitch]

Jeff can do that.

[David Sims]

Jeff Probst is drinking White Russians again. Paycheck. No, but like. Like, I saw Jeff Bridges do some, like, Talk at some 92nd Street y esque thing, and he was just wearing the sweater, and people were, like, losing their minds. And it's not like, oh, Adam west wearing the Batman suit. That's depressing. People are, like, thrilled.

[Griffin Newman]

He should wear the Iron Monger suit.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You guys remember this?

[Nick Weiger]

I mean, I. You know, all the Con Brothers movies are funny to some degree. Like, but I like, as far as their straight comedy not connecting with audiences as much, I guess. Absent Lebowski, though, that's kind of its own thing.

[Griffin Newman]

Even O Brother was sort of a. Yeah, 50% Arizona.

[David Sims]

We're both in that zone. But O Brother is so eclipsed by the soundtrack in its moment.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, well, that's the other weird thing where they're like, let's do. Okay, finish your point.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, no, no. I was gonna say is that I, like, I wonder if there's something of, like, these are. They're comedies, but you, like, really have to pay attention to them. And I feel like audience expectations for a comedy sometimes are just like, I'm just gonna enjoy the ride, as opposed to, like, I really have to lock in and focus and, like, densely packed demands my attention. Yeah, right?

[Griffin Newman]

That is true.

[David Sims]

Right? They are very. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And they also look too good. Like. Like, movies like oh, Brother look so phenomenal that you're like, this is a comedy. Like, this seems, like, important in a way.

[David Sims]

So we talked about this in our 1941 episode, right? This line of, like, if a comedy gets too expensive, does it stop being funny? I don't want Fop.

[Griffin Newman]

God damn it. I'm gonna do that 40 times in that episode.

[David Sims]

I don't want.

[Griffin Newman]

God.

[David Sims]

The way he.

[Griffin Newman]

He says fop. He should have gotten eight Oscars, Dan, man. I'm a Dapper Dan, man.

[David Sims]

Clooney is. Is.

[Griffin Newman]

He's my best actor that year, my friend.

[David Sims]

He's your winner.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

Over Crow.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Because you would have given Crow the Insider.

[Griffin Newman]

Crow is a winner for me for LA Confidential. My favorite Russell Crowe performance. The movie.

[Mitch]

The movie.

[Griffin Newman]

When he. The moment in LA Confidential when he's holding the chair. The back of the chair, and he snaps it off. It's so.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, my God, it's the best.

[Griffin Newman]

I love that movie, LA Confidential. I almost want, like, a tie to Crow and Pierce because I think they're both so interesting in that movie. Yes. No, I Have Clooney winning best actor in 2000 for over other where Art, though, I think he's so, so, so good.

[David Sims]

You put Jennifer Jason Lee in your supporting for this.

[Griffin Newman]

For this movie.

[David Sims]

Who else do you have in that category?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, let's take a look.

[David Sims]

Uma.

[Griffin Newman]

Uma Thurman for Pulp Fiction. Diane Weiss for Bullets Over Broadway.

[Mitch]

They did. You were doing David Lodermore about there.

[David Sims]

Because this was the year at the Oscars that he did that.

[Mitch]

Oh, my God.

[David Sims]

Because she's there for Pulp Fiction.

[Griffin Newman]

Helen Mirin for Madness to King George, who I think was also an Oscar nomin. So good.

[David Sims]

Never seen that movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Brigitte Lynn for Chunking Express.

[David Sims]

Oh, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

The best.

[Nick Weiger]

Is there a while you've got the spreadsheet open. Where did you. Did you nom this movie and anything else?

[Griffin Newman]

I nominated design cinematography for screenplay, losing to Pulp Fiction. I mean, Pulp Fiction is a big movie movie. I have it nominated for cinematography for score, which I have it winning for. I have it.

[David Sims]

You gave it the score win.

[Griffin Newman]

I gave it the score win. And the production design win.

[David Sims]

I didn't realize how much of this was based on pre existing material where it probably would have been disqualified, even though.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's a. That's a weird score year, dude. The weird score year.

[David Sims]

94.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Did Gump get a nomination?

[Griffin Newman]

It's like Pulp Fiction is the biggest one. I have Gump. I have Shawshank, which is a lovely score. Incredible score.

[David Sims]

I'm saying, in the actual Oscars, they nominated those three.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. But Han Zimmer wins for Lion King.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's an amazing movie year because I love Hudsucker and it's not even a top five movie for me. Oh, no, it's fifth. I have a fifth behind Chunking Express, Pulp Fiction, Hoop Dreams and Edwood, which are all movies I adore.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, they. They are. When they make comedies, for many me, I feel like they toe the exact line of how expensive a comedy can look while still being funny. Where it feels like there is never like wasted cost. Like something like this. The money is all in service of jokes. Ultimately, even if the joke is. Look at how big the set is versus it. Feeling like an abuse of power or like, you know, hubris or whatever.

[Mitch]

I'm trying to even think of someone else who makes comedies that even look close to as good. Is what the Coen brothers do.

[David Sims]

Like, we were talking about texting recently about how do you know the most brightly lit movie of all time? James L. Brooks's film that cost $120 million and takes place in three apartments, right? And you're like, this cost like a fourth of that, a third of that.

[Mitch]

And I was working at the Simpsons while this movie was happening.

[David Sims]

Like built an entire universe and has this like Swiss watch construction of every. Every sequence is so technically tight. And then even something like Raising Arizona where you're like, how the fuck did they make this on this budget when every shot is so intentional and has such a specific relationship to its cuts. But I think you're right, David, that there is this weird element of the movie. Them kind of optimistically hoping maybe people will receive this as the hula hoop. And instead people respond to it as if it's the drawing of the circle and being like, what the fuck is this?

[Griffin Newman]

Truly, no one would to see it. It made $2.8 million, you know what I mean? It's like it opened fine, limited, probably in like art housey places. And then it's just. It did not expand at all. I do like this quote from Joel where he's like, we want the movie to be successful and make money. Obviously, it's not like they're making it for no good reason. But he's like, but as far as being perceived as mainstream movie makers, that's not particularly important to us. It's not like we're doing this so we can go do Beethoven 3. I like them thinking about Beethoven at all. It's just funny to me. But the movie did badly and got kind of bad.

[David Sims]

When we get to the later directed video sequels, I just want to say that.

[Nick Weiger]

Wait, really?

[David Sims]

Go on.

[Mitch]

Yep, it has. They're good.

[David Sims]

You're saying they start alternating in the later sequels between movies about characters in a universe where the Beethoven movies exist and they own the dog who plays Beethoven. And then the other. Every other movie is back to just people who own a dog.

[Nick Weiger]

That's so complicated.

[David Sims]

It.

[Griffin Newman]

We're going to play the box office game.

[Nick Weiger]

Wait, they own Beethoven? The dog?

[Mitch]

We. We need to figure this out. You can't.

[Griffin Newman]

Third is an American comedy film, I can tell you that much, that was released direct to video. Introduces judge Reinhold. Reinhold was coming in for the third.

[David Sims]

I think they start alternating between Reinhold and Dave Thomas as the owner. This is the thing. There were like two different creative teams who were making back and forth.

[Griffin Newman]

No, Reinhold's in the fourth.

[David Sims]

What about five?

[Griffin Newman]

Fifth, We've got Dave Thomas.

[David Sims]

Oh, well, well, well.

[Griffin Newman]

I know, I know, but you're saying alternate.

[David Sims]

What about six?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, Sixth, also known as Beethoven's Big break seems to feature neither of them. Okay, and then the seventh is Beethoven's Christmas Adventure, which doesn't even get its own Wikipedia article.

[David Sims]

Who's in that?

[Griffin Newman]

That's how relevant. I don't know.

[David Sims]

If you don't know, then that's the.

[Griffin Newman]

First one where Beethoven has a speaker speaking voice.

[David Sims]

Okay, so then this Beethoven starts talking. What a decision.

[Griffin Newman]

The eighth one, Beethoven's Treasure Trail, huh, Is about the little line between his belly button and his dick. No, it's. It's about. It seems to be kind of like a pirate adventure.

[Nick Weiger]

So this sounds like they started taking their cues from the Buddies franchise. Whereas you saw, you know, Air airbuds started so like as a basketball playing dog, and then he started playing in different sports. You know, world pop. And. And then so on.

[Griffin Newman]

The Buddies talk.

[Nick Weiger]

The Buddies. The Buddies talk. And so they borrow that. But then the Buddies also go on adventures. They have movie buddies.

[David Sims]

Space Buddies start out as canonically the children of airbud, who is voiced by Tom Everett Scott. And then they start to write him out and don't acknowledge the parentage. Alex Ross Perry texted. Time to call out. Griffin. I told you a year ago about the. The absolutely insane circumstances that befall the Beethoven franchise when it reaches movies five to eight. And I told you that someday. You drive David insane with this information at hour three of a podcast, at hour three of Schindler's List, you talk Beethoven and do not mention that 5 and 7 are connected and 6 and 8 are a separate story. It just.

[Griffin Newman]

He says, but I'm not sure.

[David Sims]

A story in which Beethoven is a dog who has played Beethoven and all the other movies which exist.

[Mitch]

We're in the third hour, and he's dropping you in with it. I looked. This is crazy to me, too. I'm looking here in Beethoven 11. Beethoven is a man. He's just like a guy. He's no longer a dog.

[Griffin Newman]

Does he compose symphony?

[Mitch]

No, he's. He's just like a regular guy. Beethoven 12. He is Beethoven. Ludwig V. And then Beethoven 13, he's Beethoven. He's. Look, he's. He's the composer, but he's a dog again.

[Griffin Newman]

They finally got to the right thing.

[David Sims]

You know what's crazy? Also? I'm sitting here. Then Beethoven.

[Griffin Newman]

They'Re like, yeah, I'm seeing.

[David Sims]

Here that in Beethoven's 14, he's the composer, but he is a dog. And he tricks both of you guys into sucking them all.

[Nick Weiger]

So the film came out yet, but.

[Mitch]

And then in 11, we're dogs that suck off Human Beethoven, by the way. Hey, I want people to know who don't know our podcast. We have a thing where a gator tricks us into. So not only did you get to hear how bad our podcast is, but now we'll explain to you our bit where we suck a gator off.

[David Sims]

As a Southern gator, much in the stylings of Tom Hanks and Lady Killer, the film who tricks you to suck him off. The bit has now become generally evil. Sucking you into sucking them off. It happens. Happens just globally now. It's not just the gator anymore.

[Griffin Newman]

The film came out March 11, 1994, after premiering at the Sundance Film Festival.

[Nick Weiger]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

So I feel like there's already this sort of awareness of, like, okay, this thing is not about to be an awards contender.

[David Sims]

Big hit, not Sundance. Didn't premiere at Cannes.

[Griffin Newman]

The Hudsucker Proxy premiered, of course, at Sundance, January 94. Well, okay, I might have played a can after this out of.

[David Sims]

Possibly out of respect. Out of respect, because I was.

[Griffin Newman]

Because they won the Palme d' or for their prior film, the Disparity After.

[David Sims]

Right. This playing at Cannes the same year that Pulp Fiction, like, hits and wins and causes the phenomenon of, like, the indie takeover of Hollywood for the next 10 years. I do think it speaks to the moment where it's like, we don't want the Coen brothers making a screwball comedy.

[Mitch]

It was.

[David Sims]

We want them making Dark Knights Noir.

[Griffin Newman]

It was the opening film at Cannes, which is so weird because it had come out in America, but back then, they used to do that. Yeah. You know, it was a little different. You know, movies.

[Mitch]

It is crazy how much older Pulp Fiction feels than this movie. I mean, I guess that's a testament to me not having ever seen it, I guess.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Mitch]

But new to you. It's new to me, but it does feel like a very modern movie in a lot of ways. And just. I mean, it's just so clean and beautiful looking, too. It's just such a. A pretty movie. Not that Pulp Fiction isn't, of course.

[David Sims]

But it's a rougher film. Yeah. With a smaller project.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's not in the top five. But we're going to play the box office game. It's opening on limited screens, obviously, so number one at the box office. Griffin is a film I assume you've seen because it features an actor you love.

[David Sims]

Steve Martin.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

Bill Murray.

[Griffin Newman]

But this is a guy where.

[David Sims]

You've seen Michael Keaton.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Nick Weiger]

Is it Beethoven?

[David Sims]

The Dog? Nicholas Cage.

[Griffin Newman]

Nicholas Cage.

[David Sims]

Is it Guarding Test?

[Griffin Newman]

It's guarding test. Now that's the one where he's a Secret Service agent. That's a. That's a post. Driving Miss Daisy. We need Tandy vehicle.

[David Sims]

The poster is very similar, but it's Shirley Mlan. But it's Shirley Mlan is not the first lady. Former first lady.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. She's not even the first lady.

[Mitch]

She's an old.

[Griffin Newman]

She's a sort of lady.

[David Sims]

I think it opens with her husband's funeral and it's like she's still assigned a Secret service guy who.

[Griffin Newman]

So it is Driving Miss Daisy esque. Is she kind of a pain in the ass?

[David Sims]

I was say this.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[David Sims]

Having recently seen Driving Miss Daisy for the first time. When I watched that film, I was like, oh, so this is like runoff Driving Miss Daisy. Now I can say it is wildly superior to Driving Miss Daisy. It is improved Driving Miss Daisy. It is a perfectly fine comedy. It is like a five out of ten. But Driving Miss Daisy's like a two.

[Nick Weiger]

I saw it on. I saw it on video once, Guarding Tess, and I remember liking it.

[David Sims]

It's you watching. You're like, this is close to being really good. And they didn't quite get there.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Hugh Wilson film who made like the First Wives Club and Blast from the Past and totally solid comedies. All right. Number two at the box office. Griffin. It's a film I don't think either of us have seen. We have covered on this podcast a lot of this guy's output.

[David Sims]

I thought you were going to say we haven't seen it and we've covered it on this podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

This guy has just not made that many movies.

[David Sims]

Oh. So the majority.

[Griffin Newman]

We did a franchise of his which is, you know, like a big chunk of the movie.

[David Sims]

Okay. So it's. It's a second tier Paul Hogan.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Paul Hogan film. It's Crocodile Dundee himself.

[David Sims]

It's not Flipper.

[Griffin Newman]

Not Flipper film. I saw in theaters.

[David Sims]

Did see that in theaters and had the Pizza Hut hand puppets. I feel like you always talk about the Casper and.

[Mitch]

And the Casper hand puppets. Huge to me. Yes. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Pizza Hut had the.

[Griffin Newman]

Again, the Flipper remake does feel like. With like Hogan. What could you do? It's like, like, I guess instead of like putting a cap on his head, like you could, you know, you do a Flipper movie.

[David Sims]

It's one of my favorite phenomenons when someone hyper specific weirdly becomes a movie star and they're like, where the do we do?

[Griffin Newman]

Have you guys seen Crocodile Dundee Slash? Do you Enjoy Crocodile Dundee.

[Nick Weiger]

I've seen. I've seen Dundee and Dundee 2. I never watched in LA.

[David Sims]

Dundee, I think we were.

[Griffin Newman]

You live in LA. You don't let see croc show up.

[David Sims]

We were pleasantly surprised by 1. 1.

[Griffin Newman]

1'S good.

[David Sims]

2, the opening is so funny that.

[Griffin Newman]

We were like fishing with Dino.

[David Sims]

We're also. This is like January 2021. We're losing our minds. And then two just becomes bad. Rambo stops having jokes after the 15 minute mark.

[Griffin Newman]

Mitch, do you have a croc dund take?

[Mitch]

Not really. I'm. I saw the first one. But. But, but wait.

[David Sims]

He's.

[Mitch]

He's eventually in Flipper. Is that what you're saying?

[Griffin Newman]

He did do a Flipper remake with Elijah Wood.

[Mitch]

Okay. For a few years. Two years after 96.

[Griffin Newman]

96. This movie, though, is not flipped.

[David Sims]

Is this like the west one?

[Griffin Newman]

It's the western one with Cuba Gooding Jr. And Beverly D'. Angelo.

[David Sims]

It's not called Bronco Billy, but it's like the character's name.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[David Sims]

And it is.

[Griffin Newman]

Thing name.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's. It's not like Outback Jack.

[Griffin Newman]

It's something. Jack, you're close. Circling.

[David Sims]

It's not Kangaroo Jack.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, no.

[David Sims]

Give me the type of word that. The first thing.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a sort of a weather phenomenon.

[David Sims]

Hurricane Jack.

[Griffin Newman]

Close. It is Less. Less. More common than a hurricane.

[Mitch]

Wind Jack.

[Griffin Newman]

Less common than wind.

[David Sims]

Rain, Jack.

[Griffin Newman]

Hail. No. Sort of More common than hail. Less common than rain.

[David Sims]

Thunderstorm.

[Mitch]

What's. What's what?

[David Sims]

Lightning Jack. There we go.

[Nick Weiger]

Lightning Jack.

[Griffin Newman]

Lightning Jack.

[David Sims]

Lightning Jack.

[Griffin Newman]

Written by and starring Paul Hogan.

[David Sims]

That's. Yeah.

[Mitch]

Not. Not a big hit. Europe. European Vacation was a big movie for my family, by the way. We had. We had a good time.

[Nick Weiger]

I haven't watched it many years. Have you paid attention to what's going on with the Crocodile Dundee direct to video sequels.

[Mitch]

Yeah. He's a dog now.

[Nick Weiger]

He's a dog. What this? In six, he's a dog.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

And then in seven, he's an actual crocodile.

[Griffin Newman]

They should have done that.

[Nick Weiger]

Like, they should have done that before that shortcut.

[David Sims]

And they make it that the crocodile is an actor who played the dog in Beethoven.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, that's. That's the whole thing.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Nick Weiger]

And his whole thing is that he tricks people into sucking them off.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Number three, the box office. Speaking of films involving blow jobs that I did not pick up on the there being a blowjob until I was much older.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Because I love this movie. I saw it in theaters. Big comedy. No, just Cat Forever.

[David Sims]

I Was trying to think of the least appropriate joke I can make.

[Nick Weiger]

I'm. I might know this one. No, no, actually, I might know. I think this is too late.

[Griffin Newman]

I already invoked it on this episode. Episode?

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, that.

[David Sims]

I don't know. You thought it was a blowjob joke that you didn't pick up at.

[Griffin Newman]

One of the first jokes in this movie is a blowjob joke.

[David Sims]

One of the first jokes.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, like the first scene ends with a blowjob.

[David Sims]

The first scene ends with a blowjob.

[Griffin Newman]

But I didn't know it was a blowjob.

[David Sims]

Someone dips down.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know, give me.

[Griffin Newman]

And then some comical overreaction.

[David Sims]

There's a comical overreaction to a good.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, he's. He likes it.

[David Sims]

Oh, he might. He likes.

[Griffin Newman]

He likes it.

[David Sims]

Is it the Life commercial?

[Mitch]

Is this. Is it a Hot Shots type movie?

[Griffin Newman]

It's a straightforward comedy. Not a parody. Exactly. Although it's kind of a parody movie. It's a very strange movie. It was a gigantic, gigantic hit. It made a star. It's very odd on rewatch. I cannot believe I'm obsessed with it.

[David Sims]

Made it a child in 1984. It's primarily.

[Griffin Newman]

It was very normal for me to be obsessed with it as a child. I literally brought it up on this episode.

[David Sims]

You literally brought it up on this episode.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a famous movie.

[David Sims]

Primarily a combination comedy star. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That made it minted. The biggest comedian of the 90s, biggest.

[Mitch]

Comic actor, Ace Ventura.

[Griffin Newman]

Ace Ventura, Pet Detective.

[David Sims]

It's the blowjob joke in East.

[Griffin Newman]

The first scene ends with. Well, so the first thing in Ace Venture, which is very funny is him with the fake package.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Where he's like breaking it and kicking.

[David Sims]

It'S trying to kick him out.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he rescues the dog or the cockatoo or whatever the he does and then returns it to the lady who gives him a blowjob. And it's just carrying, going like that. And I as a kid was just like, I don't know what's happening right now. But I love that he's doing all this funny stuff.

[David Sims]

This guy got an indoor roller coaster.

[Griffin Newman]

Like 8 year old David just being like this. Whatever this guy wants to do, I'm there for it. Yes. I just don't get what's happening.

[Mitch]

Have you seen the. Have you seen the newest Ace Ventura? He's. He's a human detective, but he's a dog.

[Griffin Newman]

So he's a dog dog.

[Mitch]

So he's a dog, but he's solving human crimes. He's solving Human crime serving a GR Situation.

[David Sims]

You know what's weird? In the third one, they. They recreate the opening of the first AC Ventura, except he's sucking you guys.

[Mitch]

We're getting sucked off. Finally we got our do.

[David Sims]

He rewards you for him doing a good job.

[Griffin Newman]

Who is there an Ace Ventura Jr.

[David Sims]

Or something like that?

[Griffin Newman]

They did that, right? Yes, it's a.

[Mitch]

It is also weird. They show our hogs and we have like red rocket hogs, which is very strange.

[Griffin Newman]

The little. The little lipst.

[Mitch]

The lipstick hogs.

[Griffin Newman]

Ace turns your pet detective. I've talked about it before. I don't know if I'll ever do it on this show because it's just kind of like. It has this nasty undertone to it.

[David Sims]

Well, right. Yes. And then the second one is perhaps incredibly racist.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. But it's just such an interesting movie because it is Carrie doing that shit on top of a hard boiled noir with not much embellishment. The plot of that movie is pretty dark.

[David Sims]

We were saying that that was clearly meant to be. The joke is it's Chinatown, but they're investigating pets and it's played straight. And he came in and was like, what if I just do all the bits on top of this?

[Griffin Newman]

And it's so weird. It's such a weird movie. All right. Number four, the box office. Very good comedy. A black comedy that I like a lot. Starring. Oh, boy. Starring. Yeah. Normal guy.

[David Sims]

Normal.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean the main star is a. He's a. We like him. He's a standup comic who's becoming hot in this time.

[Mitch]

Yep.

[Griffin Newman]

And he's does a lot of movies. And then there's a husband. Wife in the movie and the. The husband's played by a normal guy.

[Mitch]

Gutenberg.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. No, no way more normal.

[David Sims]

Oh. Oh, it's the ref.

[Griffin Newman]

The film is the ref.

[Mitch]

It is Dennis.

[Griffin Newman]

Dennis Leary. Judy Davis. And who's this playing the husband here? Nicholas Frank Weger.

[David Sims]

You got to let this guy be frank.

[Griffin Newman]

Kevin Spacy.

[David Sims]

Spacy. Wow.

[Nick Weiger]

With spacy. Right.

[Mitch]

What the hell were you doing over there? You. We said.

[Nick Weiger]

You said spacing out.

[Mitch]

You were spacing out.

[David Sims]

He was paying respect. He was getting.

[Nick Weiger]

I didn't realize. You're taking me out.

[Mitch]

What do you got over there?

[Griffin Newman]

I wasn't playing with, but I was just. I realized while I was talking space season. Hostile hostages in Britain. Famously.

[David Sims]

That's what it was called.

[Griffin Newman]

I. Yep. I don't know why. I guess they were like, brits won't know what refs are. I'm like, I think they do That's.

[David Sims]

A fun movie, though.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a really good movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Demi movie.

[David Sims]

Movie. Y.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you guys seen the Ref?

[Nick Weiger]

Yes, many years ago.

[Griffin Newman]

Good movie.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And just any movie where Leary's like, ah, you guys complains about maple syrup in my coffee or whatever, I'm just always like, yeah, this is great.

[Mitch]

It's in my. He's in my blood, you know, Larry, I love the guy.

[David Sims]

Come on.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm a huge Dennis Leary defender. Especially that he stole Bill Hicks's drugs. I think that's the best thing, that guy.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Number five of the box office. No jokes to be made about this one. It won best picture in 1990. 1993.

[David Sims]

Horse Gump.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

Oh, 1993.

[Griffin Newman]

We covered it on this podcast. We did like a four hour episode we're capable of doing these days.

[David Sims]

90. Schindler's List.

[Griffin Newman]

Schindler's List. Still in the box office, obviously. You know, after months. You know, we've also got Steven Seagal's On Deadly Ground.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that the one where he's like saving the forest?

[David Sims]

Yeah, that's like beginning of the end for him, right? It's the one he directed, the environmental one.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've got that. That movie. Greedy. What the hell is that?

[David Sims]

Greedy is right. Kirk Douglas and Michael J. Fox and James Juan always cites it as having one of his favorite twist endings in movies. And I've never looked up what it is because I'm like, I should watch it at some point if no one spoiled the ending of Greedy for me. Okay.

[Mitch]

I've never. I've never seen.

[David Sims]

I don't know, maybe there's a pleasant surprise.

[Griffin Newman]

Number eight, most quotable comedy of all time. Time.

[David Sims]

Hello.

[Nick Weiger]

Of course, that's Mrs. Doubtfire.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Number nine is a film called Angie.

[Nick Weiger]

That was a hint I gave in a box office game many years ago.

[David Sims]

He said, it's really quotable. And I said, give me one of the quotes. And Ben's response was, hello.

[Mitch]

Hello.

[Griffin Newman]

Angie. It's a Gina Davis. Never heard of it. Martha Kulage movie, though.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And number 10. Well, there's some rando movies in this box office. That movie called. Called 8 Seconds, which is a John.

[Nick Weiger]

Hamilton biopic about a bull rider. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Where it's like eight seconds is the. The. The length of time you have to stay on your bull to get a score.

[David Sims]

Storing whom?

[Griffin Newman]

Luke Perry.

[David Sims]

Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

As a rodeo legend.

[David Sims]

Who's the second lead in that?

[Griffin Newman]

Stephen Baldwin.

[David Sims]

That's why I was looking it up. Do you know Stephen Baldwin? Has a movie podcast now.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, is it good?

[David Sims]

Normal. It seems normal, but I keep getting.

[Mitch]

No, it can't be normal.

[David Sims]

It seems very strange, but I keep getting fed fucking clips in the algorithm. Like, I got to chart his career. And that's why I saw this movie.

[Mitch]

Hey, did you ever see the movie 9 seconds, the bull rider in 9 seconds, the bull rider. He's not human anymore.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, that's wild.

[Mitch]

Yeah. Do you know what he is? The bull rider?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

Can you guess what he is?

[David Sims]

What is he?

[Mitch]

A dog? You think it would be a bull, maybe, but, yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Love to see a dog dog ride a bowl. That'd be amazing.

[David Sims]

You'd love to see that. You should see 10 seconds.

[Griffin Newman]

One bad movie with Stephen Baldwin. Yeah, bad movies. We all love them. Does he talk like that, too?

[David Sims]

No, he looks like that because he's like Bernie Rubble.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, right. He was Barney. He was the second Barney Rubble.

[David Sims]

But that's what he sounds like. His regular speaking voice was like, yeah, I remember I was making movies.

[Griffin Newman]

He's bad in Usual Suspects, and everyone else in that movie is good. And at the time you're kind of like, oh, well, he's just being big. And then you rewatch. You're like, no, he sucks in.

[David Sims]

They talk about. Because Alec was on recently and just dragged his brother for like two hours.

[Mitch]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, he's a shitty actor and.

[David Sims]

Was just like, Usual Suspects blows up and everyone's big and spacy, wins the Oscar, and everyone goes on to greater things. And then you're Barney Rubble. And there's this notion he'll talk about in other episodes where he's like, you know what? Everyone wanted me to be the next Tom Cruise, and I want to go a different way. And it was just clear that everyone was just like, we know what your ceiling is.

[Griffin Newman]

You're not even as good as Billy.

[David Sims]

Here's the script to bio, right? But one bad movie is setting itself up like it's, how did this get made? And then, like, every clip I've seen is just him having other kind of middling 90s former movie stars on and them complaining about their fallen career.

[Mitch]

Sounds good.

[David Sims]

It's like him and Jamie Kennedy.

[Mitch]

And is he. Is he right wing or is he.

[Griffin Newman]

He was like, the first guy to endorse.

[David Sims]

Super. Super.

[Mitch]

And Billy is Catholic. Billy.

[Griffin Newman]

Billy seems to be normal.

[David Sims]

Billy is doing the best out of all.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. And he's a good actor.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he is.

[Griffin Newman]

Billy Baldwin's a good actor.

[Mitch]

Is Billy the new Baldwin?

[David Sims]

Billy.

[Mitch]

Billy Baldwin.

[David Sims]

I think it's the Baldwin I put forth the argument recently.

[Griffin Newman]

What if I push my chips in.

[David Sims]

On Alec now that Billy has by default become America's top Baldwin?

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I think so.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. What about James or. No, sorry, Daniel.

[David Sims]

Daniel's a hero.

[Griffin Newman]

James Baldwin is the legendary novelist, of course, but it's not a Baldwin brother.

[Nick Weiger]

Adam Baldwin, also not a Baldwin brother.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, But.

[Mitch]

And.

[Griffin Newman]

But politics.

[Mitch]

He's great.

[Griffin Newman]

That was. Adam Baldwin was the first example of me following a celebrity on twitter.com back when Twitter was like, you know, posting pictures of your breakfast or whatever and being like, oh, I like, yeah. He was just all day, like, tweeting, right wing. And I was like, oh, what a bummer to learn this.

[David Sims]

I almost sent this to you guys, but Deadline had a story the other day that was Daniel Baldwin joins cast of Jurassic Rebirth. And I was like, what? He was like, oh, they're making some ripoff movie. David's playing the car.

[Mitch]

Oh, my God.

[David Sims]

Just called Jurassic Rebirth. And they're like, if we take the word world out.

[Nick Weiger]

Wow.

[David Sims]

People mistakenly watch this.

[Griffin Newman]

That's good. Yeah, that's good.

[David Sims]

He.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he's the star of Cleaver.

[Nick Weiger]

Oh, okay.

[David Sims]

Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

In the Sopranos, right? He's the star. He's Tony Soprano.

[David Sims]

Yeah, no, Daniel is.

[Griffin Newman]

Daniel is. And it. It makes sense. In world, you're like, yeah, that's who they could get.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

That's all, guys. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

You guys got anything more to talk about? Hudson Proxy.

[Nick Weiger]

So we. I had a.

[Griffin Newman]

You had a coffee date, like 45 minutes.

[Nick Weiger]

Here. Here's the thing. We sk. I scheduled something with a mutual friend.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we got go. Griffin, we gotta go.

[David Sims]

We gotta get to mission possible.

[Mitch]

Oh, my God.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Nick Weiger]

Texted me fully because we were supposed to meet at. At 45 minutes ago. We were supposed to meet. Texted me fully 50 minutes ago. Any sense of how much longer you guys have box office games started? At least I replied that the box office game hasn't started yet, which it would not for another half hour. His resp. Response response was lmao. These.

[David Sims]

This is someone we work with, by the way.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm really sorry. I. I wanted to stand speaking of.

[David Sims]

Us with utter contempt.

[Griffin Newman]

All right, I'm gonna pee again. Okay.

[David Sims]

David, thank you for being here. Everyone should listen to Doughboys if they're not already 10 glorious years.

[Mitch]

I mean, it's very funny. We come on the show and you guys are both very smart, and we're like, duh. And then we go off about dogs replacing humans. In Beethoven movies. That's all we can really add to the conversation.

[David Sims]

But we're very dumb.

[Mitch]

No, you guys are.

[David Sims]

He likes to pretend like he's smart, like he's the wagger of the podcast.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I know wagger.

[David Sims]

You all know that.

[Nick Weiger]

We figured. Mitch tries to pretend that he's dumb. He's actually a human.

[David Sims]

And smartest, you know, else is really smart. Ben.

[Mitch]

Ben's right now so smart.

[Griffin Newman]

Dude.

[Nick Weiger]

He's so. He's so good at playing it, too, because he's wearing a cap and gown right now.

[David Sims]

He's holding a diploma. A genius from, like, a really good college.

[Mitch]

I just want to say that I really liked Hudsucker Proxy.

[David Sims]

I'm really happy you like.

[Nick Weiger]

Yeah, I'm loved. Revisiting it. Great movie.

[David Sims]

I wasn't worried you dislike it, but it's. For me, it's such a vibe movie that I just enjoy so thoroughly that, like, I didn't want to run the risk of you being like, yeah, it's cute. Like, you know, I. I defy Jay.

[Mitch]

Sherman to say that Hudsucker Proxy stinks. That's what I say.

[David Sims]

I can't think of a more beautiful way to end this episode.

[Nick Weiger]

I can. I can also say to anyone who hasn't watched this movie that you. Maybe there's one you're, like, skipping over if you're not. I think this one's worth watching.

[David Sims]

Absolutely.

[Nick Weiger]

I mean, like, all the Coen brothers movies are worth watching, but, like. Like, I would not skip over this one. It's.

[David Sims]

It's visuals.

[Nick Weiger]

You might. Yeah, you might end up absolutely loving it.

[David Sims]

I truly think there is no other movie that looks like this in history. And one of the. Of the best reviews I read that I'm now forgetting who wrote it and how to cite them. Said, like, the technology had finally cut up where. And the budgets of Hollywood films had inflated to a point where they could make a screwball comedy that looked the way the dialogue used to sound and everything was buzzing at that level. Thank you all for listening.

[Mitch]

Can I just. One last thing.

[David Sims]

Oh, please. Absolutely.

[Mitch]

Have you seen Hudsucker Proxy 2?

[David Sims]

No, I haven't yet, actually.

[Mitch]

It just might be confusing to some people who haven't. Yeah. Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's weird that we've gone this long and haven't talked about the fact that.

[Griffin Newman]

There was a sequel.

[Mitch]

Okay. That's all.

[David Sims]

Is there anything you want to say about it?

[Mitch]

Just that it's. That you might be confused because the characters are dogs.

[David Sims]

The characters are dogs. Please tune in next week for Fargo. Coen brothers first Oscar win. And as always. And I know we've gone way too long, we got to end the episode. But can I just ask one final question? Question. What's more famous? Hula Hooper? Frisbee.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Frisbee.

[David Sims]

You think Frisbees today is more famous than hula hoop?

[Griffin Newman]

Part of games? No one's doing like hula hooping at college.

[David Sims]

Okay, but so then here's a question. People do Frolf. What's more famous games or toys?

[Mitch]

You're sleeping.

[David Sims]

He's handing in his resignation papers.

[Nick Weiger]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smith, research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

[Griffin Newman]

Episodes.

[Nick Weiger]

Follow us on social at Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.