The Year of Living Dangerously with Tracy Letts

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David

Episode: The Year of Living Dangerously (1982) with Tracy Letts
Release Date: April 5, 2026
Guest: Tracy Letts
Hosts: Griffin Newman & David Sims
Miniseries: Podnick at Hanging Cast (Peter Weir’s Filmography)

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Episode Overview

This episode continues Blank Check’s ongoing exploration of Peter Weir’s storied directorial career, focusing on Weir’s 1982 film “The Year of Living Dangerously.” Pulitzer- and Tony-winning playwright and actor Tracy Letts joins Griffin and David for a deep dive into Weir’s approaches to identity, colonialism, and storytelling—as well as discussions about physical media collecting, Kaiju movies, and the shifting context of “Year of Living Dangerously” in 2024.

Letts brings a personal connection to the film (naming it among his 50 favorites), offering unique insights on its themes, historical resonance, and performances, especially Linda Hunt’s Oscar-winning and controversial turn as Billy Kwan.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Australian Cinema, Peter Weir, and the ‘Blank Check’ Ethos

• (07:45–08:45) The hosts debate whether Weir fits the classic ‘blank check’ director mold, considering the trajectory of his career from Australian New Wave breakout to Hollywood projects.
  • Letts: “He was not a massive success… he got there. But the way you describe the ethos of blank check makes it sound like he had a massive success and now he’s—”
  • David: “He doesn’t quite… I mean, what’s his most runaway success?”
  • Griffin: “Truman Show. I’d say Witness is his guarantor; it happens right after this.”

2. Travel Tales: Australia & Beyond

• (01:31–04:41) The conversation opens with a lighthearted riff about Australian stereotypes, then segues into personal stories about visiting Australia, Sydney’s quality of life, and Australian food—emphasizing the impact these experiences have had on panelists.

3. The Physical Media Deep Dive: The Tracy Letts Challenge

• (11:04–41:40) Epic segment devoted to their shared obsession with collecting physical media. The hosts and producer Ben Hosley compete to gift Letts discs he doesn’t own—a surprisingly tough challenge due to Letts’ 11,000+ movie collection.
  • Letts on his collection: “I’ve seen perhaps 30% of the movies on my shelf.”
  • Notable blind spots for Letts included Ace Ventura: Pet Detective, Spawn, Swordfish, Crank: High Voltage, Small Soldiers, Mouse Hunt, and Avatar: The Way of Water, alongside other cult curios.
  • Letts shares how his son’s love for Kaiju films shapes their family viewing (“Is there a creature?” is always the first question).

4. “Year of Living Dangerously” in Context

• (58:02–63:38; 83:05–98:09) The heart of the analysis covers:
  • Weir’s tradition of “stranger in a strange land” stories and how his Australian identity shapes his sense of outsider-ness and cultural collision.
    • Letts: “He showed a particular skill at a kind of stranger in a strange land story, which seems to be a theme running through a lot of Peter Weir’s work.”
  • How the film immerses viewers in the feeling of being adrift in a foreign country—the "vibe" of alienation balanced with thoughtful nuance.
    • Griffin: “I don’t know how many films I’ve seen that more accurately capture the feeling of being in a foreign country… the basic feeling of ‘I have landed in a place and am trying to acclimate.’”
  • The ways in which the lead character, Guy (Mel Gibson), is essentially not driving the narrative, but is instead a “useful idiot.”
    • Letts: “He’s pretty shallow. He gains some understanding, but the movie is okay with him just leaving.”

5. The Billy Kwan/Linda Hunt Conversation

• (92:04–98:09; 100:58–104:39) Extensive examination of Linda Hunt’s casting as Billy Kwan, a male, half-Chinese Australian journalist:
  • Historical realities and limitations of 1980s casting versus modern standards.
    • Letts: “You look out in the waiting room and you go, they’re not out there. Not to say they didn’t exist, but say there are four of them out there… one of them is just terrible… you’re like, maybe we should make this work.”
  • The performance’s “super-personality”—transcending gender, rooted in Hunt’s theater experience, and how it frames the film’s moral center. The hosts note the win was both for the craft and the spectacle of acting transformation.
    • Griffin: “It is one of those rare examples of a Best Supporting Actress win that’s basically a cakewalk…”
    • Letts: “It is the defining element, weirdly. It’s hard to imagine this movie without Linda Hunt.”

6. Colonialism, Outsider Status & Political Ambiguities

• (121:16–124:31) The panel addresses the film’s “Western gaze” and “Hollywood exoticism,” recognizing both its own self-consciousness about these tropes and the ways it is nonetheless implicated in them.
  • Letts: “Is this movie a peak example of Hollywood exoticism… or is it interrogating that? …I do think he is very skillful at making movies where he is owning what his perspective is and the limitations of his perspective and working that in textually.”

7. Journalistic Ethics and Relevance

• (130:00–148:09; 151:07–154:44) Examination of Guy’s moral failures, the limits of journalism in changing political realities, and the enduring resonance of the story’s political ambiguities.
  • Letts: “Guy only makes one ethical decision in the movie, and it’s arguably the wrong one.”
  • David: “It’s not a movie where he’s going to break the case and fucking save the day, and it’s not a movie where he’s the white savior. It avoids all these.”
  • Griffin: “It’s like an anti-white-savior movie, even though he’s literally just some white dude named Guy.”

8. The Romance and The Film’s Mood

• (139:53–143:59) The panel rave about the movie’s eroticism and atmosphere, punctuated by Vangelis’ and Maurice Jarre’s score, plus the film’s “meandering” yet immersive pace.
  • Letts: “The scene where they’re in the embassy party and she gets in the car with him… is just the hottest scene—really, unbelievably hottest.”
  • Griffin: “His movies are weirdly seductive even when they are not sexually charged.”

9. Shifting Taste, Reappraisal, and Canonical Status

• (37:15–40:40; 126:16–128:26; 143:59–146:36) Letts reflects on how viewing the film as a teenager was different from today, when modern viewers scrutinize its politics, representation, and authorship more intensively. He acknowledges that the “Year of Living Dangerously” presents complex questions about who gets to tell what stories and how.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Letts, on physical media:
  “I’ve seen perhaps 30% of the movies on my shelf.” (21:29)

• On Billy Kwan’s super-persona:
  Griffin: “She [Linda Hunt] said, like, that was deliberate in my mind… I am playing a supra personality, that I am not trying to play a man.” (100:58)

• On Mel Gibson:
  Griffin: “He is so pretty in this. It is kind of astounding. Just the serenity of his face.” (79:01)
  Letts (citing Carrie Coon): “My God, he’s so in his body. …It’s a marvel to see. It’s too bad what happened to that guy—he was one of our great movie stars.” (179:23)

• On the film’s “vibe”:
  Griffin: “There is this kind of, like, thoughtful patience to his films. …I love movies that feel like they have some answers that they’re not sharing with you, both in terms of actually the text, but also the craft.” (59:33)

• On the Linda Hunt casting debate:
  Letts: “It is the defining element… I think, weirdly, it’s considered brownface. That’s a fair point, because she’s portraying a Southeast Asian person… But no, nobody was concerned about that in 1982.” (97:06)

• On the film’s morality:
  Letts: “The character of Guy makes basically one ethical decision in the whole movie, and it’s the wrong one.” (63:48)

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Important Timestamps for Thematic Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |--------------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:01–04:41 | Banter: Australian culture, personal travel stories | | 11:04–41:40 | Massive physical media digression/“Tracy Letts Challenge” | | 58:02–63:38 | Weir’s “stranger in a strange land” theme | | 83:05–104:39 | Linda Hunt’s Billy Kwan: casting, performance, representation| | 121:16–124:31| Western gaze, colonialism, and self-consciousness | | 130:00–151:07| Plot breakdown, Guy’s ethics, journalism, and politics | | 139:53–143:59| The romance & atmosphere: hottest moments, Vangelis’ score | | 146:36–148:09| “Meandering” vibe and resistance to historical didacticism | | 179:23–183:09| Mel Gibson’s star power and physical presence |

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Notable Sidebars & Running Bits

• Physical Media Mania: Extended, often hilarious detailing of rare discs, their physical beauty, and the collector’s mindset.
• Letts’ Family Viewing: Emphasis on his son's unique tastes (kaiju, Godzilla) and how that shapes household viewing choices.
• Blank Check Minutiae: Jokes about the arcane origins of the podcast’s series titles (“Podnick at Hanging Cast”/“Por and Castmander”).
• Draft Obsessions: References to film drafts on The Big Picture and cross-pod rivalries/friendships.
• Star Wars Tangent: Letts stakes out an infamous anti-trench-run position, leading to a lively generational debate about canonical status and childhood obsessions.
• Letts as Chief Physical-Media Evangelist: He declares “this is my job; acting and playwriting is a hobby,” championing the tangible perks of being able to access the films you love.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

This is an episode that exemplifies Blank Check’s blend of academia, fan-culture detail, and self-deprecating humor. With Tracy Letts as an incisive, generous guide, the hosts probe the strange, sometimes uncomfortable, and always complex legacy of Peter Weir’s “The Year of Living Dangerously”—from its controversial casting to its resonant themes of outsiderhood, moral ambiguity, and the fleeting power of journalism in times of social upheaval.

As with Weir’s films, the episode is at times digressive and “meandering,” but always “thoughtful, patient, and seductive.” Whether the focus is on physical media, Oscar lore, or the intricacies of post-colonial identity, the conversation is anchored by an infectious passion for cinema as both art and artifact.

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Standout Quote:

“The character of Guy makes basically one ethical decision in the movie, and it’s the wrong one… and yeah, I think you can read that as personal on the part of Weir, especially given… he’s about to go to Hollywood, he’s about to leave Australia, he’s about to become that Guy.” (Tracy Letts, 63:48)

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For more granular breakdowns on specific sections (further time stamps or subject headings), feel free to make a follow-up request!

Transcript

[David Sims]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David.

[Tracy Letts]

Don't know what to say or to expect.

[David Sims]

All you need to know is that

[Griffin Newman]

the name of the shadow is Blackjack, a podcast caught in the fire of revolution.

[David Sims]

So that's the part.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the I've been going tagline heavy on the series. Mostly not because I'm trying to avoid doing an Australian accent. I could nail it if I wanted to.

[David Sims]

You ever done an Australian accent?

[Tracy Letts]

I haven't. I'm told that the secret is really Roy. Royle.

[Griffin Newman]

What's. I feel like the one that's gotten really big when I see people doing, like, Australian accent Instagrams is. No, no, no. We're doing it terribly. But that they. There's a no with an R. We've been really upsetting the entire continent, this entire series. Just so you know what you're walking into, Tracy.

[David Sims]

Luckily, this movie isn't set in Australia, but we have been. You know, our knowledge gaps about Australian history and culture have been exposed a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, we.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah, I've heard some of this. Some of your Australian prejudice.

[David Sims]

I mean, because I admitted to it because I grew up in Britain. Yes. Okay, so you've heard. Yeah, I'm copying to it.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, and we thought it was a positive stereotype to assume that upon meeting every Australian takes out a knife and compares whose knife is bigger than the others. We did not think that was offensive.

[Tracy Letts]

Have you ever been to Australia?

[Griffin Newman]

I have. You know what? This has not come up much in this series.

[David Sims]

You've been multiple times or just the one time?

[Griffin Newman]

I've been two times. Right.

[David Sims]

Both for work?

[Griffin Newman]

No, one once for fun. I had a good friend growing up whose family relocated to Australia, and I went to visit him when I was a teenager. And then I went for work. I was on a TV show which no one should ever make. I feel like you have some similar experiences or similar opinions on the process of making a TV show which is fairly brutal.

[Tracy Letts]

I don't know. It depends on the show.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, you're right. You're right.

[Tracy Letts]

What show were you on?

[Griffin Newman]

It's called the Tick. It was a superhero parody, and we had an extended press tour that ended in Australia.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, wow.

[Griffin Newman]

And they were like, took you to Australia? They took me to Australia. And it was a thing where the cast. It was an international press tour, and every time we jumped a continent or a country, someone would drop off and be like, either we're cutting the budget, we're reducing the cast, or I'm not available for Another week of this. And so it got down to Australia and it was just me and the creator of the show. And they were like, and you're down to do the Australia stop. Right. We'll fly you in. It's just 36 hours and we'll fly you back. And I was like, I'm not going to Australia unless you give me five days in a hotel. It was one of my only flexes ever.

[Tracy Letts]

Were you in Sydney?

[Griffin Newman]

I was in Sydney proper, but then did some driving around. Not me. People drove me around.

[David Sims]

Yeah. He can't drive.

[Griffin Newman]

I can't drive. I'm afraid of.

[Tracy Letts]

Have you been to Australia, David?

[David Sims]

Never been. Would love to go in theory.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you been?

[Tracy Letts]

I have been three times.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Tracy Letts]

I went once. Somebody was doing my play Killer Joe at an independent production, and so I went for that. Do some press for that. My play August Osage county was done at the National Theater when Cate Blanchett and her husband were running the National Theater. So we took our production to National Theater.

[David Sims]

So same cast. Like you. The whole show went.

[Tracy Letts]

Took our group down there. And then the third time. Oh. Was when Carrie was shooting the Leftovers. They shot season three.

[David Sims]

There were only three seasons.

[Tracy Letts]

They shot season three in Melbourne. So I have a brother in Melbourne, Singapore. We went. We visited him in Singapore. Got terrible food poisoning. Then went to Melbourne. And we got there earlier than she was supposed to start work. But we were there at the same time. The Melbourne International Film Festival was going on.

[David Sims]

A very good festival.

[Tracy Letts]

Milf. Milf. And we just became festival goers. We got passes and just went to all the movies. It was a great way to learn the city and learn the trains and stuff. And we had a great time in milf.

[Griffin Newman]

Sounds like a real filf festival I'd like to frequent. The thing you are teeing me up for here, unknowingly, Tracy, which I somehow have not brought up at all. This series is my brother, James Newman, boarded a plane on New Year's Eve 2025 and January 1, landed in Sydney, Australia, where he now works full time as the general manager of the Sea Sydney basketball team.

[David Sims]

I feel like you have brought this up.

[Griffin Newman]

I think I haven't within this series. I can't remember because of recording order.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But my brother is now like an Australian resident. Or he at least has a work visa. Is. Is.

[Tracy Letts]

You know, what does he do for the basketball?

[Griffin Newman]

He is a general manager, the GM of the Sydney men's and women's teams in Sydney, Australia. We are very different people, but I love him very much, and I'm very proud.

[Tracy Letts]

There are very healthy people, the Australians, regardless of their physical attractiveness. They're always running and jumping in front of you. There's a lot running and jumping and

[David Sims]

biking and positive stereotypes.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He was calling me and saying, like, you're the only person I know who's visited. Like, and I know you've only gone, like, you know, short trips and work stuff and whatever, but what's your takeaway? And I'm just like, the quality of life there seems unbelievable. And on average, not too stereotype positively. People seem happy.

[Tracy Letts]

They do.

[Griffin Newman]

It is, like, one of the least tense major cities I have ever visited.

[Tracy Letts]

There's a lot of running, there's a lot of jumping. There's every. Every animal can kill everything. Every spider around every corner is a scorpion right there.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're just, like, running a restaurant.

[Tracy Letts]

We're out of antitoxins, so be careful when you're, you know, don't you dare

[David Sims]

bring in a green bean, because they'll yell at you.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's why it helps to have a basketball in Sydney, though. You can just dribble those motherfuckers.

[David Sims]

I mean, you know, I have. I have a friend who's from Brazil, and I was talking to her about, like, the stereotype, you know, that she. The. The. You know, the cute stereotype. Like.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

We're always just all on the beach all the time, just dashing into the water. That's how I feel, like, about Australians, too. I know it's not true.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But that they're all just running up and down the beach and jumping in the water and I'm firing up the barbecue.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, I'm almost definitely going to visit this year and for the foreseeable future, Sydney is probably a place I go to more than most places. I mean, it's obviously a big commitment trip, but, like, if he keeps working there, I'm gonna.

[Tracy Letts]

Good food. Surprisingly good food. Seafood.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

They got all seafood and some Asian influence, Some spice in the food. It's good.

[Griffin Newman]

David, you held up one finger.

[David Sims]

It's funny just because we're talking about a film that was largely filmed in the Philippines.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Although they did shoot some in Australia.

[Griffin Newman]

It was basically an Australian production. He treats Witness as his first Hollywood film, even though a Hollywood studio came in and rescued this movie at the last moment before production started. But we're also talking about an Australian filmmaker, one of the canonical Australian filmmakers,

[David Sims]

and this is his departure from Australian film like this.

[Griffin Newman]

Really the farewell. Yes. And we've been nailing all discussions of Australia up until this point and is continuing on this episode.

[Ben Hosley]

Should we take a moment to pat ourselves on the back for how good

[David Sims]

of a job we've been doing?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Ben, can you cut in, like the loudest thumping sound of all time or maybe. TOILET flushes what's this miniseries called? This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[David Sims]

I'm David.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their career, such as basically leading the Australian new wave, being certainly one of the leaders, vanguard.

[Tracy Letts]

I'm already throwing a flag on this.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Really? Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

He was not a massive success.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, well, well, well. You don't think he got there?

[Tracy Letts]

Well, he got there. Yeah. But I. What? The way you describe the ethos of blank check makes it sound like he had a massive success and now he's.

[David Sims]

But Tracy, look. Has suffered. It's true. 12 years into this show, we're a little bit out of those guys. Not completely out.

[Griffin Newman]

Some of those guys were saving.

[David Sims]

Some of those guys were saying, mostly we want to discuss interesting filmmakers and we're. He doesn't quite. I mean, his mo. What's his most runaway success?

[Griffin Newman]

Truman Show. It's Truman Show. I'd say Witness is his guarantor. It happens right after this.

[Tracy Letts]

Witness is the breakout. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

The guarantor is what we call the hit that convinces them to hand you the blank checkbook. And then I think he is a bit of a blank check filmmaker. I do think his studio run. Even though to a certain degree, he was a hired hand. Green card, obviously. More his personal passion project.

[David Sims]

Right. Look, the thing is, Tracy, if we had a director on and we said, we think that Hollywood gave you a

[Griffin Newman]

blank check, they would be like, shoot us in the.

[David Sims]

Do you know how hard it is? Even guys we talked about, like Nolan or M. Night Shyamalan, who really did get, you know, a lot of power. This is still very hard.

[Griffin Newman]

M. Night Shyamalan now literally funds his own movies and would be like, there is no such thing as a blank check. Right, Right.

[David Sims]

But.

[Tracy Letts]

But George Lucas, I mean, he's the close.

[David Sims]

He's. That's how we start the original.

[Griffin Newman]

And you love him in his films.

[Tracy Letts]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Especially right here. He's got wado.

[Griffin Newman]

Look, this is a massive success. Early on, the careers are given a series of blank checks. Make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. This is a film, a miniseries on the films of Peter Weir. Is Called Podnick at Hanging Cast.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Tracy Letts]

Which I approve of.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you. Okay, so then I give up because

[Tracy Letts]

what was the other one?

[Griffin Newman]

Por and Castmander Colon, the pod side of the cast.

[Tracy Letts]

Really bad.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. I, I, I. You know what? I can't fight that. This is a man of letters here.

[David Sims]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a Pulitzer Prize winner. I'm not going to argue. My writing's better. It's Podnik at Hanging Cast. You will hear no further gripes from me.

[Tracy Letts]

Who did Gallipoli by, but will have already aired by now.

[David Sims]

So you can say, right. Jennifer Kent, the wonderful filmmaker Jennifer Ken, who made the Babadook and the Night Night Gale.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

We wanted an Australian filmmaker especially for gpo, which is.

[Griffin Newman]

We tried for several. What's tough is that they live 8 trillion hours away.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

We did it. What?

[David Sims]

It was like 9pm Our time and it was like the next morning. Her time.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

She was.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, she was on Zoom.

[Griffin Newman]

We were taking Nicole and she was drinking coffee.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Sims]

But she rocked. She was.

[Griffin Newman]

She's awesome.

[David Sims]

Do you like Gallipoli?

[Tracy Letts]

Very much.

[Griffin Newman]

Gallipoli. I thought it was very, very phenomenal. Had never seen that before. Had never seen this one before. Both of the Mel Gibson films were blind spots.

[Tracy Letts]

I do have holes in my. Peter Weir.

[David Sims]

I mean, sorry, bit of a. Bit of a aggressive question there. Who are you?

[Tracy Letts]

Hold. Master and Commander. You've never seen Master and Commander.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

As I learn more about you. You've been on our friend Sean's show. Obviously you've, you know, I'm third chair

[Tracy Letts]

on the big picture. Let's just say I' we should.

[Griffin Newman]

We should. Let's. Let's introduce with proper titles here. Not only is he third chair on the big picture, not as only is he a Pulitzer Prize winner in drama.

[David Sims]

Yes, this is true.

[Griffin Newman]

Tony Award winner as well as both writer and actor. Correct.

[David Sims]

Correct. Gotta flex it.

[Griffin Newman]

But most importantly, he is the king of physical media.

[David Sims]

I also at one point called him a bad bitch on this podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

Excuse me, I hear that. I believe we called him the boss bitch.

[David Sims]

Maybe a boss bitch.

[Griffin Newman]

In our awards show episodes we do annually. I nominated you best supporting actor for Indignation, and I believe David responded. Tracy Letts, the boss bitch.

[David Sims]

Because you'd had a good, really good year.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a good year.

[David Sims]

You'd been in a lot of stuff that. That's when you're in like Christine and like Wiener Dog and the Lovers. I don't know. It was like a very, very sort

[Griffin Newman]

of exciting trait when you meet hitmaker and he gives you the secrets. He's like, here's how you make a hit.

[David Sims]

Wait, when did he meet? When. When did. What did they. Christine. Right, Right. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And he was like, the women have to be little. And it will go over $100 million. And you run to Greta Gerwig. I'm holding the hot hand. Tracy Letts is here in the studio.

[Tracy Letts]

Thank you very much for having me. Welcome, Tracy.

[David Sims]

Thank you.

[Tracy Letts]

On the blank check.

[Griffin Newman]

Now you're saying that you've never seen Master and Commander before. I was happy that this is the series that you came on for it is one of our great joys in life. For David and I, when we pick a new director, we put him on the schedule. We immediately crack our knuckles, pull up blu ray.com and go, what do I already have and what are the holes I have to fill? And then what's the best addition? And it used to be. Oh, no domestic release of this. Too bad I'm not going to have it. I've started being a no matter what, by any means possible. I'm getting all of them. And this is. This is a varied stack here. We got Le Voiture Ou En Mange Paris.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a French copy of the Cars that Ate Paris. Who's. Who's even the distributor here? Eska Editions.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Efi about to reissue this in 4K. Got this fucking mondo second sight. Picnic at Hanging Rod.

[Tracy Letts]

I got that.

[Ben Hosley]

That's very nice.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a good box.

[David Sims]

I just have the criterion of that. But there's a very.

[Griffin Newman]

That only has the director's cut, and it says theatrical plus book you get. It's kind of like a better rendition.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah, I got them both.

[Griffin Newman]

I tried to convince. I used this specifically to try to convince Amanda that physical media isn't ugly. I was trying to combat your I live in a GameStop thing by being like, but look at. This is nice. And it's.

[Tracy Letts]

No, there are nice ones.

[Griffin Newman]

There are nice ones, but sometimes.

[David Sims]

Are you a little skeptical of the really nice ones? Sure.

[Tracy Letts]

I mean, I have giant boxes of movies I don't for.

[David Sims]

Like, fricking Congo. I mean, maybe Congo's rude because I know the boxes are great, but then you're like, inside is William Friedkin's, you know, Jade, like, which is a movie I like but doesn't belong in this I finery.

[Griffin Newman]

I just bought the umbrella 4k of the live action Super Mario Brothers, which I think is $100 and contains more literature than, like, the Encyclopedia Britannica film that has four separate.

[David Sims]

A film that I enjoy but like, that most people involved with are like a stain on my.

[Griffin Newman]

It is objectively dog shit. And I want to be clear. I love that film. It is objectively dog. And it comes with a book that includes two different scripts, two rejected scripts for that movie. And that's one of only three books included in that box. Last Wave from the aforementioned Umbrella, the fine folks.

[Tracy Letts]

Yep, I got that.

[Griffin Newman]

We got Gallipoli has just a Paramount. A pretty basic blue that only came out recently. I'm glad they finally put it out.

[Tracy Letts]

I've got Gallipoli, but I. I'm gonna look at my.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. I wonder if I'm wrong in this. Just a reissue.

[David Sims]

What do you use?

[Griffin Newman]

This has a 2023.

[Tracy Letts]

I use something called CLZ.

[David Sims]

I use that too. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

There you go.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Very fond of. Of that. Let's see.

[Tracy Letts]

Gallipoli. How do we spell that?

[David Sims]

G, A, G, A, L, L, I,

[Tracy Letts]

P. Yeah, that's what I got.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. From a place you've never heard of Comes a story you'll never forget. We both agreed in this episode. Kind of a rude tagline.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah, a bit.

[Griffin Newman]

But then I saw you on your letterbox log where people were getting excited. Oh, is Tracy Letts doing Year of Living Dangerously?

[Tracy Letts]

Sorry, I didn't realize when I. When I logged it that people or.

[David Sims]

It's good. You like that.

[Griffin Newman]

But you. You were posting an anger.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That you had to watch it on YouTube Premium because it was the only better option than the dvd. You had the dvd?

[Tracy Letts]

I. I actually played them side by side.

[Griffin Newman]

You aware of this?

[Tracy Letts]

What is that?

[Griffin Newman]

This is a Spanish Blu Ray. I. I've been a little suspicious that it's a bootleg, but it seems like it's not.

[Tracy Letts]

Have you watched it?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it looks okay.

[David Sims]

Well, there's the whole thing.

[Griffin Newman]

I would not say it is reference quality.

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. It looks like probably YouTube Premium just on a disc.

[Tracy Letts]

Why isn't this movie. Why do I have a fucking box for Congo on my shelf and not the Year of Living Danger?

[Griffin Newman]

This is underground pictures. They put this out. What's the copy right here for the disc release. I'll figure it out. I mean, this is. Yeah, it's got. This is 2014.

[David Sims]

I feel like often with these.

[Griffin Newman]

The only country in which any Blu Ray release of this movie has happened. It was 12 years ago.

[David Sims]

These. MGM, United Artists. Like, you know, that's sort of tricky period for this. Right? Like, the rights will get weird. Right? That's always. Isn't that always the answer. It's like no one can untangle.

[Griffin Newman]

Sometimes I also want to, like, we'll get into this, but I wonder if there's a feeling of touchiness around this movie, of if we restore this too thoroughly, spotlight it too much, are people going to get up in arms.

[David Sims]

But William Friedkin's Jane, they're not touchy about Shade. Sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You know, like, there's other movies that get.

[Griffin Newman]

That's a touchy movie. That's movie people touching each other the

[David Sims]

whole time, grabbing everyone.

[Griffin Newman]

And I got the rest of. I got the. The Arrow Witness. I got the Dead Poets. The basic Disney release. Green card.

[Tracy Letts]

I don't own Dead Poets.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you not like it? Sims is on the same page.

[David Sims]

It's my least favorite weird film.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

I think mine too.

[Griffin Newman]

Fearless, I think, is a Warner Archive. Truman. Basic, Paramount 4K master and commander. Got the Steel book, but I assume you don't have that yet. I have it. I just have blind bought it. Yeah. Interesting. And then Way Back's an image release.

[Tracy Letts]

I have that as well. I don't think I've seen the Way Back.

[David Sims]

Do you like Brit shit? You know what I mean? So, like, the Mastering Commander kind of passed you by just because it was like sort of a big blockbuster at the time and you were like, like, like, like. How did it pass you by, I wonder?

[Tracy Letts]

Based on those books. Right? I have no. I've never had no grounding in the books. I don't go out to see a movie just because Russell Crowe's in it. I don't not see a movie because

[Griffin Newman]

Russell Crowe's in it, but he's not an automatic guy.

[David Sims]

You go out sea.

[Tracy Letts]

Exactly.

[David Sims]

What about the sea? You know, the shiny.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Is this the Midwesterner in you? You're like oceans. They're thousands of miles away.

[Tracy Letts]

I have no good reason for not having seen Master and Commander. Maybe I'll go home and watch it tonight.

[David Sims]

So. It's. It's the best. It's so good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's one of David's favorite movies. I have not rewatched it since I saw it in theaters. We have not done that episode yet.

[Tracy Letts]

Can you say what your favorite Weir is?

[Griffin Newman]

My.

[David Sims]

That one is certainly my favorite.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

My favorite is.

[David Sims]

But I love a lot of his films.

[Griffin Newman]

Huh.

[David Sims]

Yeah. What's your number one?

[Griffin Newman]

But is it Truman Show? That feels kind of lame, but it feels like that might be my answer. What's your favorite?

[David Sims]

Is it this?

[Tracy Letts]

It's Year of Living Day.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Right. I mean, we. We talked to you when we were planning the series, being like, Peter Weir, does he spark interest in Year of Living Dangerously? Was your Reno, I believe you said,

[Griffin Newman]

it's one of my 50 favorite movies of all time.

[Tracy Letts]

You know, I made a list recently of my favorite movies. It was going to be my top 100 list, and it turned out to be about 160 something on my list.

[Griffin Newman]

Ranked, or is it not ranked? Okay, just what's in the pot?

[Tracy Letts]

Chronological order. And yeah, Year of Living Dangerously is on that list.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's basically at this point, it's like, this is the canon. These are the movies.

[David Sims]

You were just sort of going through

[Tracy Letts]

everything you've seen, being like, these are my favorite. These are the things I will watch again that I know and love.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, you might have sensed David and I both trying to sniff out some of your movie blind spots, Right? What don't you like as much? What. What haven't you seen and for what reasons? It's because we came into this loaded with a challenge. Ben. Producer Ben, who is not a physical media guy. I've gifted him a couple discs over the year, but this is not his beat. When we lock down a day and

[Ben Hosley]

a time to record, I should say, I have vinyl. I have a big vinyl collection. Love music, but as far as. Yeah, Movies, I only really have a handful.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And he says, you know what would be fun? If we tried to gift Tracy with a disc that he doesn't already have. And I said, ben, you don't understand the scale of the challenge you just proposed. That's impossible. And then the more we got into talking to him about how hard that would be, the more we were like, wait a second. You should try. You should try, Ben. You should see if you can pick out a movie he hasn't seen and. Or placed in his collection. And then he bought three, and it sparked a competition in David and I. And we have also each bought three movies for you.

[Tracy Letts]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

And this is the Tracy Letts challenge. There are nine discs that are about to be presented, and we want to know, are any of these not already in the collection?

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, great.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, I feel like you should go first since you spurred this whole thing.

[Ben Hosley]

So I want to shout out. We went to Night Owl Video.

[David Sims]

You ever been there? It's in Williamsburg.

[Griffin Newman]

Great place.

[David Sims]

Lovely little place. Nice.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about a year old. It's finally bringing physical media stores back to Shout Out.

[David Sims]

Shout out to Night Owl Video. They got a very nice used collection. Very. You know, and all the new stuff, obviously. And their motto is death to streamers, physical media forever. So they're definitely going for it.

[Griffin Newman]

I was trying to give Ben some. Some help in strategizing. He also went with our friend Ben. David Grabinski, past and future guest, who was sort of guiding Ben through the understanding of certain labels have subscription programs. Tracy might be pre buying a full year. Yeah, right.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, yeah. He had mentioned your. Your subscriber to Vinegar Syndrome. So I, I avoided those releases.

[Tracy Letts]

And we're looking for. You want rigorous honesty?

[Griffin Newman]

Rigorous honesty. Complete honesty.

[Ben Hosley]

Absolutely.

[Griffin Newman]

Because you have about what, 20,000.

[David Sims]

No, no. That's crazy.

[Tracy Letts]

11,000 plus.

[Griffin Newman]

Still a lot.

[Tracy Letts]

But I appreciate you throwing out the number. 20,000 makes it seem reasonable.

[David Sims]

Then we're kind. 20,000. We're sort of starting to approach like the amount of movies that might exist.

[Griffin Newman]

This is why the challenge is fun.

[David Sims]

Right. But you buy a lot of stuff and kind of are like, I'll get to it, or I have a completionist surge or whatever.

[Tracy Letts]

I've seen perhaps 30% of the movies on my show. Right.

[David Sims]

Because I'm currently in this project of like, I gotta fucking watch everything I own on disc that I've either never seen.

[Tracy Letts]

How many discs do you have?

[David Sims]

I have over a thousand. I think I'm nothing like you, but I have a lot.

[Griffin Newman]

I think I'm similar now.

[David Sims]

And my wife is. It goes in one room. And so it's a little mysterious what's going on, I think to her. But like, then she'll glimpse like, what's. And I'm like, no, no, no.

[Tracy Letts]

You live in Brooklyn.

[David Sims]

I live in Brooklyn.

[Tracy Letts]

So your space is some. You have some.

[David Sims]

Somewhat limited. There's gonna have to be. I'm gonna need. There's some shelving conversations I'm gonna have

[Griffin Newman]

that need to be made.

[Tracy Letts]

See, we bought this house and it had a basement in it that looked like a Marriott ballroom. It's just like, oh, well, this is where we can put everything.

[David Sims]

I mean, I'm very jealous.

[Griffin Newman]

Tracy, I need you to know that I now often repeat the phrase, all I want is the type of success where I can have a Tracy Letts basement. It has become basically the driving force of any professional ambitions I have is if I can just get a Tracy Letts basement. Imagine having a home where there was space for all of my sickness is the way I think about it.

[Tracy Letts]

And you can pass your sickness on to your family.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that's the real. Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

All right.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, and so I want to preface as well, as far as curation, you saw my porch.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

So just keep that in Mind as a. Like a kind of lens.

[Griffin Newman]

These are kind of three porch movies. If this helps you understand the kind of sub genre of porch movies.

[Ben Hosley]

So of course, first here I have a limited edition steelbook of Ace Ventura, Pet detective.

[Tracy Letts]

I do not own this film.

[Griffin Newman]

You do not own this film? Have you seen it before?

[Tracy Letts]

I don't think so. Wow. Wow.

[Ben Hosley]

You're in store for a good time.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, great.

[David Sims]

How do you feel about James Carrey?

[Tracy Letts]

Funny.

[Griffin Newman]

Funny.

[David Sims]

Well, then you probably at least get a couple.

[Tracy Letts]

But I mean, obviously not so funny that I've ever sought out Ace Ventura, which I think would be one of the touchstone films in his.

[David Sims]

It's his launch pad, obviously.

[Griffin Newman]

I will say this was part of my strategy, was thinking the 90s might have been the era where you were dismissing certain commercial films.

[Tracy Letts]

Definitely, definitely. It started in the 80s, but certainly extended well into the 90s. We'll get in more into the 80s 90s discussion.

[Griffin Newman]

Great.

[Tracy Letts]

I will say that I just worked with Peter Farrelly. I shot a movie with him called I play Rocky, which is coming out later this year. And at one point I got a note from him to take it down and I said, wow, the director of Dumb and Dumber just told me I was a little too broad.

[Griffin Newman]

That's incredible.

[David Sims]

In a movie about making Rocky, who

[Griffin Newman]

do you play in?

[Tracy Letts]

I play a fictional bad guy.

[Griffin Newman]

You'll never make this movie.

[David Sims]

Boxing movies don't matter.

[Griffin Newman]

Shit. I'll tell you, Rocky, you will never win best picture.

[Tracy Letts]

You might have actually quoted a few of my lines.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you.

[David Sims]

Do you like to get that call? Like four versus Ferrari? Great movie. And you're very, very good in it. But like, where it's like, oh, fun racing. Well, no, no. You're the guy who shits on everyone in the office.

[Griffin Newman]

I think this movie sucks. I wish this movie weren't happening. But then what's great about for Versus Ferrari is you get the scene of the emotional breakdown. The best version of that character.

[Tracy Letts]

I turn down a lot of those things. Unless it's got that extra thing. Yeah. That I go, oh, this is. This is good. I want to do that extra thing.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

And so I play Rocky.

[Griffin Newman]

Has that.

[David Sims]

No, I'm excited for. I play Rocky. I am a sucker for that kind of movie. I like. I like.

[Tracy Letts]

Early word is good. I'm excited about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know that the young actor playing Sylvester Stallone in the movie is the same young actor who played Al Pacino in the Offer, one of my obsessions of the last decade?

[Tracy Letts]

I have not seen It. But he's very good.

[Griffin Newman]

I almost bought you the offer on dvd, and then I was like, it's TV and it's dvd. This is offensive, this is rude. But the offer is one of the more bizarre things ever made.

[Tracy Letts]

Thank you for the Ace Ventura. I will gladly accept.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait, what is one of one right now? One out of one.

[Ben Hosley]

And so I should mention that was a shout release. Next we have. This is Arrow Video. It is a 4k of spawn.

[Tracy Letts]

I do not own that.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

That. That doesn't shock me at all.

[Ben Hosley]

Have you ever seen Spawn?

[Tracy Letts]

I have not.

[Griffin Newman]

Mark a Spawn.

[Ben Hosley]

Are you familiar with the character?

[Tracy Letts]

Is he a vampire or a vampire hunter?

[David Sims]

Yeah, he's a former soldier guy.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, he dies, he goes to hell, and Satan is sort of like, I'll let you go back to Earth. But you do have to be kind of like a hellish superhero.

[Tracy Letts]

He's originally a comic book, correct?

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Todd McFarlane. T dog.

[David Sims]

90s, very 90s.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of chains.

[Tracy Letts]

And who directed the film?

[Griffin Newman]

Mark Az Depay, who's a legendary special effects artist. He's widely credited as being one of the two guys who really cracked CGI for Jurassic Park. And they were like, well, that means you should make a whole movie. And he did this. And I believe he never directed a live action film ever again. He directs direct to video Garfield sequels now.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Ben, you're two for two, man.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. I'm thrilled by the way this has theatrical and directors cut on it. I recommend directors.

[Tracy Letts]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Ben Hosley]

And there's some really great special effects, and that's all I'm going to say. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Roger Ebert gave this movie three stars.

[Ben Hosley]

And then here, lastly, we have Trash Humpers by Harmony K. I do not own Trash Hump.

[Tracy Letts]

Wow.

[David Sims]

I knew that was going to be okay.

[Tracy Letts]

I was.

[Griffin Newman]

I believe that was the one that was borderline. Harmony Corinne doesn't feel like quite your taste zone, but I also got a

[Tracy Letts]

couple of Harmony Corinne on the show, so I'm glad to have Trash Humpers on disk.

[David Sims]

Hell, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm a big fan of his work, and I just. I can't believe. Three for three.

[Tracy Letts]

Well done, man.

[Ben Hosley]

Incredible.

[Tracy Letts]

Well done.

[Griffin Newman]

David, would you like to go next?

[David Sims]

Sure, why not? All right. Okay. First off, this is the most obvious one you might have. This one. This is Arrows.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[David Sims]

4K release of Dominic Senna's film Swordfish. He's checking his database here, which is what I thought. Where you. I doubt you've seen Swordfish.

[Tracy Letts]

I have seen it.

[David Sims]

All right. You've seen it. Okay, so I was wrong. But one of those where I was like, did you buy it just because there's a nice new addition out of a sense of completion?

[Tracy Letts]

I do not own swordfish.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, okay.

[David Sims]

Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry, of course. John Travolta, Don Cheadle. Don Cheadle. A role that you would play now in this movie where it made today, is Sam Shepard's role as the US Senator who's sort of like, stop. Yay, Travolta. You got to cut out your. Whatever it is you do. I do like these computers, right. And Travolta's like, oh, it's interesting. And shoots him to death in, like, Utah or some, you know, some extravagant location.

[Tracy Letts]

Just to make sure I'm thinking of the right film. Halle Berry, nude scene, very famously.

[David Sims]

They. They leaked this. This. Oh, a terrible leak came out from the studio. Like, oh, she's filming a nude scene. An extra scene has leaked. Oh, who could have spilled this info? Clearly, someone sent them a long range tracking report and they were like, can we leak the. Can we pay Halle Berry another million dollars?

[Griffin Newman]

There's a moment in the trailer of her undressing, and I remember being surrounded by teenage boys. Being a teenage boy at the time, people being like, I hear she keeps taking clothes off. Like, there it was. The buzz was really strong.

[David Sims]

It's a scene in the film, her nude scene that I would say doesn't feel entirely dramatically central to the.

[Griffin Newman]

But she's sunbathing and then she just drops the COVID I've seen the movie for about 60 seconds and then puts it back.

[David Sims]

The nude scene is what it's sort of known for. I think this is a crazy text. Like, this is a bizarre. Like, when Hollywood was sort of like, we should be doing, like, cyberpunk Tarantino movies. And then like, one year later, they were like, enough of that. Like, we gotta stop. Who directed Dominic Senna, who also made.

[Griffin Newman]

He did.

[David Sims]

He was. He was a Fincher guy. He was one of the Fincher stable.

[Griffin Newman]

I always get Senna and Simon west confused.

[David Sims]

Right, well, they were both Fincher guys.

[Griffin Newman]

They're both.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he did that kind of nasty Brad Pitt movie, California, if you remember that. Like a serial killer movie.

[Tracy Letts]

Yep.

[David Sims]

He was, you know, all sizzle, no stick. Medium, medium to small stick.

[Tracy Letts]

You guys are four for four.

[David Sims]

All right, all right, let's see what.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, he did Season of the Witch, which I love. Have you ever seen Season of the Witch?

[Tracy Letts]

I have.

[Griffin Newman]

Great movie. One of our finest.

[David Sims]

All right, next up, this is. This is a strange one. This is a dvd. Used dvd.

[Tracy Letts]

Wow.

[David Sims]

I was really trying to get Weird Scott Alexander and Larry Karasuski screwed. Check in the database. Now this is Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

An exceptionally strange movie.

[Griffin Newman]

I agree with that.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I believe it has never been released.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you ever seen it?

[Tracy Letts]

No.

[David Sims]

It looks light to medium use here. We've got some crinkling on this. I'm sorry to give you this. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It is an odd kind of blank check movie because they had had such success as screenwriters that people went, we should let these guys make a whole film. And it was trying to launch arguably three comedy stars at the same time.

[David Sims]

Well, it's trying to launch. It's sort of trying. With norm again. Norm MacDonald around the dirty Work era. Right. Like a little after.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's almost contemporaneous.

[David Sims]

And then Dave Chappelle. It's sort of half baked era. Dave Chappelle. I'm not going to end. I mean, who's. I was arguing.

[Griffin Newman]

Sarah Silverman.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

She's in there.

[Tracy Letts]

But Larry doesn't disown this movie. Right? I mean, Larry, he's fond of.

[David Sims]

I think they're both. It was. It was one of those movies that you had no idea how to market. It has one of the weirdest trailers. They clearly just have no idea what to tell you about this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It is so.

[David Sims]

Because it's quite odd and kind of vulgar.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say. It's in this category. I would classify as like big budget studio versions of John Waters material, you know, And I think it's a little post, like something about Mary. People want gross out. It is very dark. It's very odd.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, thanks.

[David Sims]

Five for five.

[Griffin Newman]

DeVito is great in it.

[David Sims]

Doing great.

[Tracy Letts]

Finally, Crank.

[David Sims]

High Voltage.

[Tracy Letts]

I have not seen Crank. High Voltage.

[David Sims]

Have you seen Crank?

[Tracy Letts]

I haven't seen Crank. I've actually been on a bit of a Statham tear recently. And you haven't gotten to it yet? I've not gotten to it yet.

[David Sims]

Both vital. I'm sorry that I went for High Voltage here because the completionist in you now means you'll probably end up buying Crank as well. This is the sequel. Crank. High Voltage.

[Tracy Letts]

Is Joan Allen in one of these movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Joan Allen, she's in the Death Race movie, a movie I really fight for.

[David Sims]

For.

[Griffin Newman]

She. She plays the. I. No, I was going to say she plays the. Tracy Lets. I don't want you doing Death Race. It is the opposite. She is the evil prison warden and she's like, you better Death Race. And there's a bit in that movie that I love where Joan Allen goes on like a 30 second tear and says every American curse word six times.

[Tracy Letts]

Nice.

[Griffin Newman]

Cuz she's angry at how breaking her system for.

[Tracy Letts]

For a while the mystery treadmill watches were TV shows. Keeping up with the TV shows. But it just became too painful. And so what I've been doing.

[David Sims]

Because you're going to fall asleep watching these shows 10 episodes before they do any plot right.

[Tracy Letts]

It wasn't an enticement to get back on the treadmill. So I've been catching up on a lot of action. Like trash for a 90s 2000 action. Like I've watched the Equalizer series.

[Griffin Newman]

Saw you log.

[David Sims]

Extremely good, Tracy. Extremely solid.

[Griffin Newman]

I had considered buying you the Equalizer trilogy so I did some cross referencing. We were just talking about those movies. I love them so much. They make me so happy.

[David Sims]

Just to pitch you on Crank. Crank. The first crank. The idea is it's speed, but with his heart. So he has to keep his heart rate above a certain crank heart voltage. I believe he's been given an artificial heart. So he has to literally like grab onto like use electricity, electric cords and bite them to just wait. Really? Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The first Cranks fun ends with him dying.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And it was enough of a hit that justified the sequel. Well, what if they put an electric cart in him but it resulted in one of the greatest taglines of all time.

[David Sims]

Which is.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is he was dead. But he got a lot better.

[David Sims]

Yeah, he got better.

[Tracy Letts]

Mr. Statham never made a movie that he, he, he couldn't find his way to make a sequel.

[Griffin Newman]

Absolutely. All doors are open in the world of Jason Statham.

[David Sims]

I like this era of his better, which was more martial artsy versus this new one where it's like he's a gentle gardener, but he used to. And then like some nice old lady dies and he has to go kill Hillary Clinton or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. But Beekeeper is incredible.

[David Sims]

Beekeeper.

[Griffin Newman]

Beekeeper. Have you seen Beekeeper? I have seen Beekeeper is just so insane in. In the world it establishes.

[David Sims]

I forget which crank it is. One of the Cranks has one of my favorite gags which is Japanese guys talking to him. And you see the subtitles and Statham is so out of it that you then cut to a reverse of Statham looking at the subtitles.

[Griffin Newman]

Like the shot is reversed going like Nevildean and Taylor.

[David Sims]

All right, so I got, I got three for three.

[Tracy Letts]

Six, four, six.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

I, I took a very specific strategy. AI Was like, I feel like the 90s are the zone where you were maybe not keeping up as omnivorously with all of commercial cinema.

[Tracy Letts]

I think that's true.

[Griffin Newman]

And B, also you talk about on your. On your physical media episode. So they picture the things you are watching with your children. And I was sort of trying to triangulate your children's tastes where things are going. And I'm like, are there movies that I grew up with that you would not have seen at the time? But that might be good to introduce your children to. I like, they can come Griff stamps. They can also maybe they. And knocks these discs a little higher up on the watch list because there's a little bit of an activity. Okay, so first of all, Joe Dante's 1998 picture Small Soldiers. Have you seen it?

[Tracy Letts]

I have not seen Small Soldiers.

[Griffin Newman]

And I assume that means you don't own it.

[Tracy Letts]

I do not own nor have I seen Joe. I didn't even know it was a Joe Dante movie.

[David Sims]

You're making a Sherman esque statement, Tracy.

[Griffin Newman]

That's exactly what I was betting on. Because I went. I bet Tracy has respect for Joe Dante.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

But he lost track of the last couple of years.

[Tracy Letts]

I did. I did not know that was his film.

[Griffin Newman]

This is an incredible film about the military industrial complex, about the corporatization of America.

[Tracy Letts]

Is that a person on the.

[Griffin Newman]

No, these. So it is about a tech company, a military tech company that buys a toy company and they're endless sort of gobbling up conglomeration of everything and decide to try to make this film's very relevant now basically AI toys. What if GI Joes could actually do shit and they put military microchips in them and they start literally waging war on our backyard.

[Tracy Letts]

But are there people in the film?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, there are. It's not an animated film. It's a live action film. This is Major Chip Hazard, who is the main villain toy voiced by Tommy Lee Jones and Frank Langella Archer, leader of the Gorgonites. But this film stars Kirsten Dunst, Gregory Smith, great. Kevin Dunn, Phil Hartman's final film performance, Denis Leary, David Cross and Magnussen. It's. It's got a really good cast. Jay Moore, of course, it was that era where we were trying to make that happen. But it's. It's a. It's a wonderful film. I think. I think it's a razor sharp satire. You guys are very funny.

[Tracy Letts]

You guys are killing it.

[Griffin Newman]

Big action.

[Tracy Letts]

I'm gonna show that to my son.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I think. I think he Will like it. It's got. It's not. I know he's very into Kaiju film. I know it is not a Kaiju film.

[David Sims]

Not big.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a similar. Yeah. Energy of chaos, creature feature.

[Tracy Letts]

Kind of like the first question is always, is there a creature?

[Griffin Newman]

It is mostly very small animatronic puppets, you know, of monsters fighting army men.

[Tracy Letts]

Got it.

[Griffin Newman]

And humans being like, the fuck is going on? One of the best films of 1998. Similarly, this comes from. This was DreamWorks when DreamWorks was launching, and Spielberg was like, we need a family slate. We need Amblin esque pictures. And he greenlit odd versions of Amblin esque pictures that didn't quite perform as well as they should have at the time. Gore Verbinski's Mouse Hunt, his first film.

[Tracy Letts]

I do not own Mouse Hunt, nor have I ever seen one.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

You'll like that.

[Griffin Newman]

This is quietly one of the best film craft films of the 90s. If this movie came out tomorrow, best cinematography, best art direction, best sound, best editing, people would be like, nothing has looked this good since the 50s.

[Tracy Letts]

Who directed Mouse Hunt?

[Griffin Newman]

Gore Verbinski. Oh, you just said it is his first film. It is him cashing in the heat of directing the Budweiser frog commercials. And it's a script that's just. These two guys are trying to catch a mouse and he's like, what if it has the aesthetics of delicatessen? He built an insane house. He insisted on doing almost all of it with real mice. They had like 60 mice who they trained as actors. It's Nathan Lane and Lee Evans.

[Tracy Letts]

Lee Evans.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's also. It's Christopher Walken's in it. Maury Shaken's in it.

[Tracy Letts]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

It's William Hickey's last performance ever.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Wonderful film. Saw it recently at Film Forum. They screamed. It's a beautiful 4K. I tell you what, this is reference quality, though.

[David Sims]

If you.

[Tracy Letts]

If you score this last one nine for nine.

[Griffin Newman]

This is my biggest swing because this is more recent, but I had a feeling that you just kind of opted out on this whole series. This is. I picked. It's an excellent adventure picture. It's. It's a family story done in a style I'd say almost heightened to melodrama with the broad kind of allegorical storytelling of your biblical epics of yore. It is called Avatar, the Way of Water.

[Tracy Letts]

I've never seen Avatar the Way of Water.

[Griffin Newman]

Did you blind buy it?

[Tracy Letts]

I did not blind buy it. I do not own it.

[Griffin Newman]

Nine fresh discs now. Did you see the first.

[David Sims]

Did you see the first one?

[Tracy Letts]

I've never seen one of the.

[Griffin Newman]

It's my guess that you just went. Not my thing.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

I've not. Yeah, I haven't seen.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a rip or an adventure about how we have lost touch with nature.

[Tracy Letts]

So now I have to go buy the first one.

[David Sims]

This is the problem. We're making homework for you here, buying these sequels.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a boy and a whale.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Mighty Piacon, who you will be thrilled to meet.

[Tracy Letts]

How long is that movie?

[Griffin Newman]

Let's not talk about run time. Runtime. What is a run time?

[Tracy Letts]

Well, just in terms of showing it to my son. There. There are.

[David Sims]

Your son will be into it, I would imagine.

[Griffin Newman]

Your son will be into it. Might split over a couple nights. 192 minutes long.

[Tracy Letts]

192 minutes. It's longer than Lawrence of Arabia.

[Griffin Newman]

Similar to Lawrence of Arabia.

[David Sims]

Longer than Lawrence. But has your son seen Lawrence of Arabia? Actually, you know what? Lawrence of Arabia is longer. Lawrence R is almost four hours long.

[Tracy Letts]

Is it really?

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's really, really long.

[Griffin Newman]

It's four discs. So after you watch the movie, you can go into the making of.

[Tracy Letts]

You know, recently, Sean and Amanda on the Big Picture podcast were talking about how even if you're not into it, it's undeniable that the. The specialness of the special effects are, in fact, kind of jaw dropping and beyond what you're accustomed to seeing when you watch a lot of AI slots.

[Griffin Newman]

I would agree.

[Tracy Letts]

Or CGI slop. It is.

[Griffin Newman]

It is very much. Yes. It stands in opposition to that. And I. We. We agree that it is the best of the three.

[David Sims]

Yes, absolutely.

[Tracy Letts]

Really?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

I think this sequel is the best.

[Griffin Newman]

I do think you could watch it cold. It does a pretty good job of table setting at the beginning of the film. And there's such a big time jump between the first and the second that there is a bit of a clean entry point.

[Tracy Letts]

Now, I have to say, you guys have done absolutely beautiful work in collecting these nine discs. I'm really impressed, and I'm really happy to have them in my collection, and I'm happy to give all of them a spin. All of them. Does anybody listening to this give a shit about what we're talking about? Yeah.

[David Sims]

Oh, very deeply. Are you kidding me?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

You go on Sean's podcast, which is bigger than this podcast, and you guys, you know, speak at length on these matters.

[Tracy Letts]

I always assume that those episodes are just very niche, that there's just a very. There's a small but dedicated number of People.

[David Sims]

This is a growing area of interest for people. I feel like. I do feel like there's this general pers. You know, like there's just feeling amongst film fans of like, it's just not good out there. It's bad.

[Griffin Newman]

And we need to take a stand and we need to do something.

[David Sims]

So annoying. Sifting through these streaming services, it's so annoying. Kind of like trying to find the best version of it, you know? And like, it's so sad. Satisfying to own something. I don't know. I don't.

[Tracy Letts]

I can just hear a lot of pissed off film guys going, what do you mean he's never seen Ace Ventura? What? Who is this?

[Griffin Newman]

People got to come to blank check and understand this is the flow. This is the natural order, you know?

[Tracy Letts]

Have you ever had anybody on this show older than me?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Your father.

[Griffin Newman]

My father. Are you willing to say your age on Mike?

[Tracy Letts]

60.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, my father. My father has been only on Patreon, but he is 73. No, she's 73, I believe. Clint McElroy.

[David Sims]

Oh, sure.

[Ben Hosley]

Amy Irving.

[Griffin Newman]

Amy Irving. She was only on Patreon, though. Colin Quinn, I believe. Do you know, I think Colin Quinn is older than you.

[Tracy Letts]

I would think.

[Griffin Newman]

I think so.

[David Sims]

Colin Quinn is six years older than you.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah, there you go.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Go rub it in his face next time.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

So unfortunately, you don't get. You get to retain the crown as king of physical media.

[Tracy Letts]

Let me tell you a few people who are older than me. I'll surprise you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, we do. There's one last disc reveal.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

The remainder of the bag you mentioned, of course, your. Your physical media episodes on the Big Picture, which started out as just you and Sean and then grew to include Chris Ryan and. And Tim hitmaker Simons as well. There is one person who has been desperately trying to make his way onto the physical media High Council.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, I'll read this Note he left. Mr. Latz, please accept this meager offering of physical media. Sorry, it's hard to read his handwriting. It's really chicken scratch here. Representing some of my movies. Only two are reference quality. It's less about hoping you watch and enjoy and more the honor of contributing my work to the definitive archive. Alex Ross Perry.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, Alex Ross Perry. How lovely. And what did he send?

[Ben Hosley]

He gave you three of his films, which is Her Smell, Pavements and. Listen Up Philip.

[Tracy Letts]

Yes, I own Listen Up.

[Griffin Newman]

You own Listen Up. This same. The Eureka Edition.

[Tracy Letts]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

I own that, but I'll take it.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. I mean, this is. This is like an epic L for Arp. That we went nine for nine and Arp gets up to bat and immediately you imported one of his movies.

[Tracy Letts]

I haven't watched it. I should watch it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's excellent.

[David Sims]

I think you'd like it.

[Griffin Newman]

Incredible drama, Price performance. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

Price is incredible in it. I don't know if you another, you know, a theater legend in his own right who also did Yellowface, which I was gonna say is important to our discussion today of the year. Dangerously.

[Griffin Newman]

David.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

This episode is brought to you.

[David Sims]

Bye.

[Griffin Newman]

Moo Mooby.

[David Sims]

Oh, the global film company. The champions Great cinema. Ah, the global film company. The champion's great cinema.

[Griffin Newman]

The global film company.

[David Sims]

Iconic directors, emerging auteurs. Always something new to discover. Movies films are hand selected. You can explore the best of cinema.

[Griffin Newman]

Give me one example. David Gibson.

[Tracy Letts]

No.

[David Sims]

They have a new movie that's streaming on Ruby in the us. It's Father, Mother, Sister, Brother. It's the Jim Jarmusch movie from last year. The one, the Golden Lion.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a film, Venice that regretfully. Regretfully.

[David Sims]

Regret from.

[Tracy Letts]

Er.

[Griffin Newman]

Regretfully, you and I both didn't get a chance to catch up with.

[David Sims]

But now I will be able to enjoy this funny, tender and gently moving exploration of the universal intricacies of family dynamics. Tom Waits, Adam Driver, Mayim Bialik, Charlotte Rampling.

[Griffin Newman]

Why are you listening?

[David Sims]

Blanchett? Vicky Creeps.

[Griffin Newman]

All the people who were invited to Ben's birthday party.

[David Sims]

It's a triptych, right? There's a New Jersey section, a Dublin section, a Paris section. Obviously Jarmusch has done some such storytelling before. Night on Earth and such coffee and cigarettes. Griffin.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

It's about the relationships between adult children, their somewhat distant parent or parents and each other. I simply cannot relate.

[Tracy Letts]

I know, right?

[Ben Hosley]

Having a complicated relationship with your parents.

[David Sims]

So you can watch that and you can watch all the other great stuff they've got at MUBI to stream the best of cinema. You can Try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.comblankcheck that's M u b I.com blankcheck for a whole month of great cinema for free.

[Tracy Letts]

By the way, the big picture has come up a couple of times here. They did a 1988 draft.

[David Sims]

I'm in the middle of listening to it as we speak.

[Tracy Letts]

I was not invited. And I said to them, you know, I'm going on blank check tomorrow, right? And maybe if the blank check guys adopt me, you know, we're. We're all New Yorkers. We're New York fans.

[David Sims]

Yeah, it's true.

[Tracy Letts]

I was like, maybe. Maybe I wind up jumping ship. Let me tell you, the. The text I got from Sean was pretty definitive if you even think you

[David Sims]

for one fucking second. I was having a fun time listening to that's an interesting year. 88. And I. I really. I respected Chris. Chris's bind there. Chris Ryan's binder of getting the number one pick where it's like you're on the big picture. You know, it's like you have to pick Die Hard. That's sort of like the. And he. He lost Midnight Run. And I felt for him is Midnight Rain.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, I sent them immediately upon conclusion. I sent them a few movies. They left off okay. 1988 draft that I would have such as Gladly. Well, Thin Blue Line would be top of great definitive me. And I was just like, how is this not.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, would be a beautiful use of a wild card pick.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Did it get snubbed for best documentary?

[David Sims]

Yeah, of course it was. He was right. He wasn't doing what that branch appreciated, you know, like he was doing something new. So he was. They never liked him.

[Griffin Newman]

So you'd have to take it in wild card, I think.

[David Sims]

Did he eventually win for Fog of War? Like, I feel like they eventually gave

[Griffin Newman]

Errol Morrison Oscar and then he also did the fucking. The stuff for the Oscars he did.

[David Sims]

Those were fun. Yeah. He won for Fog of War, though. That's his only ever Oscar nomination. Like, they were, you know, they were always kind of like, too snooty for him.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just one of the most incredible lasting cultural artifacts is from Errol Morse doing those. That Oscar intro one year where he interviewed people about their favorite movies. We have the clip of Donald Trump looking into the interrotron.

[David Sims]

Is that what he calls interrotron?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Right. And talking about why he loves Citizen Kane and misreading it confidently.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a movie about being a big house. I think he literally says it's a movie about a guy who gets everything.

[Tracy Letts]

That reminds me, I was at a. I was at some party in Los Angeles and David Zaslav. I was with Carrie and some of the other favorite guy. Gilded Age people.

[David Sims]

Of course. Carrie's in the HBO family.

[Tracy Letts]

Of course. Yeah. The queen of the HBO family. She's on Gilded Age. And Kasloff came up and he was so excited to see them. And we came to realize after a while, I was like, oh, the robber barons are his heroes. Of course.

[David Sims]

I love RAM in that railroad right across America.

[Griffin Newman]

Yep.

[David Sims]

I God, my favorite thing in the Gilded Age is anytime Morgan Spector's character is just like, I feel like I need to go, you know, kill 10,000 railroad guys just to. Just to get my rocks off, you know, just really gotta like, go fight with JP Morgan about something. I love the Gilded Age. Gilded Age is number one kind of show for me where I can Google after and learn about the operation.

[Griffin Newman]

David just said this in our Way Back episode with with Alex Ross Perry.

[David Sims]

Peter Weir's the Way Back, one of his least seen films. His final film, the film about escapees from the gulag who trekked across the Gobi Desert all the way to India.

[Tracy Letts]

I remember my mom watching it and saying, this is really good. How come I didn't see It's a.

[David Sims]

It was completely ignored on release. It's a fairly handsome, like, you know, solid. It's not his best movie, but it's pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

But David was saying he loves anything. Any watch that can cause him to open up some Wikipedia tabs and start digging, you know, afterwards.

[David Sims]

I'm like, so mongolia in the 50s. What was going on?

[Griffin Newman]

You know, like, stuff like that. I want to hear your other 1988 snubs.

[Tracy Letts]

Let me consult my.

[David Sims]

I'm guessing Akira wasn't picked. I haven't finished the episode.

[Griffin Newman]

Was not picked.

[David Sims]

It's also, I'm trying to think of, like, definitive 88 movies that probably are too niche.

[Griffin Newman]

They keep complaining about how bad the sequel slate is.

[Tracy Letts]

It was very bad. And in fact, Amanda asked me specifically what my pick would have been.

[Griffin Newman]

It's really bad.

[Tracy Letts]

I suggested Lady Terminator which is not actually canon.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

That one's not canon.

[Griffin Newman]

You have Halloween 4, Hellraiser 2, Nightmare 4, but I'm just immediately here. No one's not great. Even with Thriller open, no one picked Child's Play and no one picked Dead Ringers.

[Tracy Letts]

Dead Ringers was definitely on my list. I think they mentioned it in their honorable mentions, but not good enough. Another Woman, the Woody Allen movie Another Woman, which, you know, that would have

[David Sims]

been a surprising pick.

[Tracy Letts]

It would have been, but because I listened to the New York draft.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, we had to dance between the raindrops on that one.

[Tracy Letts]

Didn't pick Woody Allen.

[David Sims]

Did nobody pick Woody Alley?

[Griffin Newman]

No one picked Woody Allen.

[Tracy Letts]

I want to make his name was never said a little worse.

[David Sims]

We are in front of a live audience.

[Griffin Newman]

We were in front of a live audience backstage. There wasn't like a blood packed, like, we all agree no one's gonna utter his name. It did not happen.

[David Sims]

No, no.

[Griffin Newman]

I think if we were not in front of a crowd.

[David Sims]

I don't know, though.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, who knows?

[David Sims]

Because the whole populist agenda of the drafts of, like, you're supposedly trying to win the audience is always dicey.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[David Sims]

The other thing. I will say the other thing with Woody Allen in a New York movie draft is it's like, okay, well, so do you figure Manhattan is the pick there? There's other definitive New York movies? Well, you know, almost all like. Like, what's the New York. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's more the canon than the idea. If he has one film that feels most representational of New York, other than the one that's named after a burrow and has a poster, has some great

[David Sims]

photography of Manhattan, but really New York movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, I would probably pick Manhattan, but certainly if somebody picks Annie hall in comedy or Hannah and Her Sisters. These are not.

[David Sims]

These are not shocking.

[Griffin Newman]

No, you're not wrong. Hannah and her sisters.

[Tracy Letts]

The bear, 1988. Never seen the Jean Jacques.

[David Sims]

Yeah, the bear. The great. The big bear actor.

[Tracy Letts]

It's a great. Yes, Bart the bear plays the bear. It is a. It's a nature film shot, really, from the bear's perspective. It's very good.

[David Sims]

Have never seen.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a good director.

[David Sims]

And that is a genre of movie that doesn't exist anymore. The sort of gentle nature, focus, plot, light, you know, kind of.

[Tracy Letts]

It's not that gentle. That's the good thing about bears.

[David Sims]

You got some peril.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah, there's a. There's. There's fucking in it. There's psychedelic drugs. There's. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, the bear's kind of.

[Griffin Newman]

But, like, the. The animal drama doesn't exist anymore. Right, right. On. On a tapestry from, like, you know, Black Stallion to the bear. It used to just be, like, once or twice a year.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

There would be a lot of cameras.

[David Sims]

We went to the jungle. You're gonna love it.

[Griffin Newman]

And we're like. We think we got this animal to act.

[Tracy Letts]

Never Cry Wolf. Do you guys know that?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah.

[David Sims]

I've never seen it. I know it.

[Tracy Letts]

Beautiful movie. And there's no good physical media.

[Griffin Newman]

That's Carol Ballard. Right. That's the kind of king of what we're talking about.

[David Sims]

Terrific.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

I had my neighbor Totoro, but then Sean informs me maybe that's not quite the right release. It is.

[David Sims]

I. You can call it an 88 movie, but to me, that's one where it's like, you can't go by the American date because that movie was never properly released in America.

[Griffin Newman]

It got a fucking Troma Release.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah. Hairspray.

[David Sims]

Hairspray is a great movie.

[Tracy Letts]

Things change.

[David Sims]

Never seen. Never seen things.

[Tracy Letts]

David Mamet, Joe Mantegna and Don Ameche. A very good.

[David Sims]

It's the poster where they're in the limo, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

That's a very good movie. And there's a good disc of that, too. I think it's Indicator has a nice disc of that.

[David Sims]

And then Delancey did that.

[Griffin Newman]

Come on, Amanda. Dragged the.

[Tracy Letts]

Out of my comedy pick. Chicken and Duck Talk.

[Griffin Newman]

Chicken and Duck Talk.

[David Sims]

Never heard of it. Looking it up. Okay. Looks like it's a. A Chinese film.

[Tracy Letts]

Hong Kong.

[David Sims]

Hong Kong comedy. Yeah. Michael Hui.

[Tracy Letts]

Very funny.

[David Sims]

Don't do it.

[Tracy Letts]

Chicken and Duck Talk.

[David Sims]

Okay, I'll check it out.

[Griffin Newman]

I was pretty astounded that Fen didn't pick Police Story 2. He mentioned it as I considered it. I'm like, yeah, you should have considered it and then picked it. That's a good move.

[David Sims]

Mystic Pizza. Did that get picked?

[Griffin Newman]

Amanda chose Crossing Delancey over Mystic Pizza. This is really fun how we're relitigating

[David Sims]

and I will move off this right now, but my last. Clint Eastwood's Bird. I think one of his best movies is an 88 film. That's an incredible film.

[Tracy Letts]

Did not draft that.

[Griffin Newman]

They did not. A little. The one I want to ask you about, Tracy, because I feel like a couple times now, Big Picture has done sort of a drive by of apathy towards this movie, and I like it quite a bit. Clean and Sober, the Michael Keaton film.

[Tracy Letts]

I like it quite a bit.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that's a very good film.

[Tracy Letts]

I think I mentioned it actually on their podcast, on one of the physical media podcasts, because I was talking about the value of Warner Archive.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Tracy Letts]

Right. Which puts out sort of standard issue releases. They're very clean. There's no extras to speak of. There's no giant boxes. It's just here's the movie in a nice, clean presentation. And it might not have been kind of a big deal movie at the time, but I really like Clean and Sober. I think it's a very good movie. And as a person sober for a long, long time. I have to say Clean and Sober is one of the movies that gets it right. Gets the psychology of that.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I was on the Michael Keaton fan. Michael Keaton's maybe my favorite living actor, but I was on the Michael Keaton Mount Rushmore.

[David Sims]

Yes. It was kind of a bad episode. Like, it was a fun episode with you guys talking about Keaton, but like the. The four big Keaton movies was actually fairly easy for you guys to.

[Griffin Newman]

The problem is it's easier and more interesting to pick eight to 10 Keaton movies than it is four because the four are always going to be pretty chalk. But they, they were just like. It was not in the conversation for them. And I went in there being like, clearly this is one of his key texts.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, they get weird about some of that stuff. And I can say, in fact, to bring it back to Peter Weir, please. It comes up, up with Witness. You know, Amanda and I really love Witness.

[Griffin Newman]

Amanda.

[Tracy Letts]

I think it's a great movie.

[Griffin Newman]

We will spoil. We'll be on the Witness episode.

[Tracy Letts]

John gets. Amanda's gonna be on the Witness episode. Fantastic.

[David Sims]

We recorded it.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, there you go. Sean gets a look on his face like his ass is sucking lemons and he says, is it a great movie?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Tracy Letts]

And I go, now look, depends on where. You know it's all relative, right? We could say Seven Samurai and Lawrence of Bicycle Thieves are great movies and these other movies are. But if you're going to live in a world where you're telling me that A Few Good Men and Pelican Brief are great movies and goddamn right Witness is a great movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

This is also definitively a great movie. I think that's.

[Griffin Newman]

It is analogous to Kurosawa where you're like, well, like making samurai movies in the Japanese film industry at that time was akin to doing like a programmer. And he was elevating it to such a high level. I'm not saying Witness is the Seven Samurai of cop movies, but I think there is a similar. Okay, but what is the most thoughtful, intelligent, deliberate, nuanced, detailed, lived in version of this. And it is what makes Peter Weir a blank check filmmaker. Arguably, I would say not in this film where he had a little bit of a blank check in the Australian film industry up until this point. This starts to transition him, especially with Mel Gibson being a guy who had crossed over. But then once he makes Witness work at that level, and here's just what should be a cop action movie drama that is now nominated for best Picture. Best Director gets Harrison Ford as only acting nomination. It's like every A list actor in Hollywood wants to work with this guy. They want to bring their passion projects to him because he can lend integrity to them. But that is the next chapter of his career that ends with the film we're talking about today.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, I think he showed a particular skill at a kind of Stranger in a Strange Land story, which seems to be a theme running through A lot

[David Sims]

of Peter Weir's work, even something like Dead Poets Society, which is ostensibly an inspirational teacher, but Robin Williams is the stranger and a strange man there. Yeah, Pink card for sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I have have, you know, continued to say this kind of quickly because I lack the knowledge and the intelligence to make this point more thoroughly, let alone the historical context. But especially watching his early Australian films, it feels very informed by a man who has spent a lifetime trying to reckon with his relationship to the country he lives in. Do I belong here? What is my ownership over this place? Does this place own me? Who has been disposed in my favor? You know? And it feels like his films are constantly cultures kind of butting up against each other, interrogating each other, and people crossing those lines and feeling out of sorts in their world.

[Tracy Letts]

Did I read correctly that this Year of Living Dangerously is a recent rewatch for both of you?

[David Sims]

He'd never seen it. I saw this film several years ago, but I did rewatch it for this show.

[Tracy Letts]

And when did you watch it last time? For the first time ever, last night.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I like to be fresh.

[Tracy Letts]

Fantastic. Yeah, that's great. Well, what'd you think?

[Griffin Newman]

I liked it quite a lot. It is. It is an interesting film. I have so greatly enjoyed, you know, the exercise of this show where we cover someone's full filmography. At times, even when it's a great career, you start to get into a feeling of. For, like, months, I've just been on this one guy's wavelength and it's starting to get a little samey. Even if I can extricate the values of each individual film, I'm in a bit of a loop here. And other times, the filmography is so disparate that you're just like, I'm swinging all around here. I don't have any grounding force. I have just, by and large felt the. The cruising altitude of Peter Weir movies is so comforting to me. There is this kind of, like, thoughtful patience to his films. I love movies that feel like they have some answers that they're not sharing with you, both in terms of actually the text, but also the craft that you can feel the intentionality and the thought, and that's force you to sort of lean in and try to interrogate what the person is doing. And this movie does have just such an incredible vibe to it in a very basic, fundamental way. I don't know how many films I've seen that more accurately capture the feeling of being in a foreign country. Just the basic feeling of, I have landed in a place. And I'm trying to acclimate to how this place works. And so much of this movie is the interrogation of who are the people who landed here and act like they already own it. Who are the people here who are trying to claim ownership, who are the people fighting to be seen within it. And I also love anytime it can be pulled off a movie about a fairly. How would I put this? He's not a weak lead character, but he's almost irrelevant to the movie in a certain way.

[David Sims]

He does not drive the action. No, it's a. He's. He's changed by the action.

[Griffin Newman]

He's changed by the action and the movie is okay, I guess I'm leaving this now.

[Tracy Letts]

He's pretty shallow.

[Griffin Newman]

He's pretty shallow, yeah.

[David Sims]

And he gains, obviously, some depth, right? It goes along. And he gains some understanding of the way things really work, which is what I love about this movie. I think this is so good.

[Griffin Newman]

Weir's early films, which. This thing we've discovered in doing this is that, like, he came out of a background of sketch comedy, like performing and directing and then directing sketch comedy leads to directing theater and then directing film. And his early works, especially his short films, feel way more kind of barbed and pointed in their kind of satire of this kind of guy, a sort of well meaning liberal white man who wants to be involved in causes, who wants to help and doesn't quite get it. And this feels like this interesting. I mean, this movie is just the transition point of like everything in his career, but he's basically removed any of the satirical edge from the character. He is presenting it very earnestly, but he is also presenting kind of how unimportant he is. And even in the framework of it being like, oh, right, he's not telling the story.

[David Sims]

But I think it's also, like, about an Australian becoming alienated from like, where he, like. It's about Australians becoming alienated from like the Western world or like the way the Western world works and the way the world. Western world operates on the rest of the world. Right. And he's going in there being like, I'm like these British guys and these amer. Right? Like, I'm. I'm in this mix. And then becoming alienated from which I think is so interesting, especially that it's Weir's last Australian film before he joins Hollywood and he does so well in Hollywood. And I don't ever feel like he, like, you know, he never, like, made shit there, right. Like he always did his own movies. But it's interesting that he sort of says farewell to Australia by with that.

[Griffin Newman]

And the first four films are just so thoroughly about him interrogating his own sense of identity as an Australian of his generation and how he sees the world from that experience.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, I mean, the character of Guy makes basically one ethical decision in the whole movie and it's the wrong one. Right. Totally fed by his ambition and without any sense of context. It's like, I'm here to do this job and I don't care who gets hurt as a result of me doing this job, as long as it gets me what I'm. What I'm after. And yeah, I think you can read that as personal on the part of weird, especially given, as you say, he's about to go to Hollywood, he's about to leave Australia, he's about to become that Guy. I mean he's going to become quite a. Quite a player on the world cinema scene.

[David Sims]

I don't know if he's making this film because we have audacity of research. I'm going to open it up. But like he'd been trying to make this for years. This was a long standing passion project of his. So he's not making it in this sort of swan songy way. But it's interesting how it sort of worked out. Have you ever read the book, the Christopher Koch book?

[Tracy Letts]

I have. I think it's Koch.

[David Sims]

I was about to say unit with that spelling. You never know how you. Right. Christopher Coach's 1978 book, which is based on his younger brother's life. His younger brother was a reporter in Indonesia during.

[Tracy Letts]

Is this the dossier? Have you opened.

[David Sims]

I've opened the dossier.

[Griffin Newman]

It's not physical. You seem disappointed.

[Tracy Letts]

I was. I mean, especially given a year of living dangerously, you kind of want to write a big manila folder right out of the folder.

[Griffin Newman]

Shadow puppets.

[David Sims]

So his brother, you know, was in Indonesia for the fall of the Sukarno regime. Weir reads the book and buys. Reads it in a single day and inquires for the rights, like immediately. His quote is, I could smell the. Now what's this word? Sate. Satay. I don't know what that is.

[Griffin Newman]

S A T E. Yes. Interesting.

[David Sims]

Not sure.

[Tracy Letts]

I think it's just a different spelling of satay.

[David Sims]

The tang of clove cigarettes, the distant sound of the gamelan, the exotic Japanese atmosphere. Like he, he, you know, his whole thing I feel like with Weir is he has these like aesthetic reactions to stories or whatever. It's like he'll read a script and be like, yeah, that's Interesting. But then once in a while he reads a script where he's like, oh, I can't stop thinking about the world. Like the how, you know. And that's always seems to be why he pursues a project.

[Griffin Newman]

He reads a thing, he goes, this is overwhelming. I could never touch this. And then he can't stop thinking about it.

[David Sims]

Like Gallipoli is him walking on the beaches. Right. In. In Turkey.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And seeing this like hand from an

[Griffin Newman]

Australian like medication bottle. Right.

[David Sims]

And being like, oh my God. And like then not being able to let go of like, right. Our boys were here with their shit.

[Griffin Newman]

And then Last Wave was basically the same thing. Like literally finding an object in a space and then going like, oh, so who is the person who left this here?

[David Sims]

David?

[Ben Hosley]

It's skewered grilled meat.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right. Satay. Okay. Right. It was just spelled differently. Probably JJ's fault.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's probably fired.

[David Sims]

Have you seen the Last Wave? Obviously you've seen Gallipoli. Have you seen. Yes. Last Wave is pretty cool.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And that was recently put on a disc, wasn't it?

[Griffin Newman]

Umbrella has had a disc out for quite a while. I missed out on the deluxe edition.

[David Sims]

Criterion is now also re released.

[Griffin Newman]

Criterion.

[Tracy Letts]

I had the old criteria.

[Griffin Newman]

They only have it on dvd. They haven't announced, I think a Blu ray or a 4K yet. It is a movie that they own outright. Y like it is a movie that domestically is owned by Criterion. So I think it is coming soon, hopefully.

[David Sims]

So Weir was trying to make the Thornbirds, which of course eventually got turned into a miniseries. I don't know if you know this. And then he gets sort of diverted onto Gallipoli. But then the. The investors withdraw from Gallipoli. So then he turns to Irving, living dangerously. Then Rupert Murdoch himself funds Gallipoli and so he gets put back to Gallipoli. So you're living dangerously is backburner. And he had visited asia in the 60s briefly, I guess in his sort of. He went to Colombo, which is the capital of Sri Lanka, while he was traveling up through Europe. He was very intrigued by it. Bali had become a vacation spot for him. So Bali is obviously a different island in Indonesia. I've never been to Indonesia.

[Tracy Letts]

I will admit now I have not either.

[Griffin Newman]

I've.

[David Sims]

Griffin, of course, has been many times. No. Gen Ben.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You're always.

[Griffin Newman]

I summer there.

[Ben Hosley]

I would love to someday.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

My wife's been to Indonesia, but she lived in China for years, so she's been everywhere.

[Griffin Newman]

My wife lived in China for years. Yes.

[David Sims]

Do you not know that?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

Do you not know that my wife is fluent in Mandarin?

[Griffin Newman]

This is so surprising for someone I'm so close with.

[David Sims]

Griffin has known my wife since. Since they were teenagers.

[Griffin Newman]

I went to high school with David's wife, so I like to contend, correctly, that I'm actually closer with her than he is because I've known her longer.

[Tracy Letts]

Is that how you guys met?

[David Sims]

Nope.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Complete coincidence. We became friends, and he was like, you want to hear something funny? I'm going on a date tomorrow with someone you went to high school with.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, wow. Oh. So you guys. Your friendship actually predates your relationship with your wife, correct?

[David Sims]

Very much.

[Griffin Newman]

Here is the order.

[David Sims]

Very much.

[Griffin Newman]

I meet his wife. I meet David. They meet each other. I know both of them better than they know each other.

[David Sims]

So true.

[Griffin Newman]

Three kids, hairs.

[David Sims]

But you don't know that she's fluent

[Griffin Newman]

in Mandarin or that she's lived in China.

[David Sims]

That she lived in China. Is it working as a teacher living in Hunan province?

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

But because she lived in China, she was like, oh, I'm in China. I'm gonna go everywhere. Right. And so she's been to Indonesia. She's been to Thailand and Cambodia, Japan.

[Griffin Newman]

Was this. Right?

[David Sims]

Yeah. Right after.

[Griffin Newman]

So those are the years we fell out of touch.

[David Sims]

She was in freaking China. It was hard to contact her, I think. But she says it's very cool. You know, she's. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Anyway, can I circle back to a thing? I know we'll have covered this in Gallipoli, but I think it's important, kind of restating. Rupert Murdoch invested all this money into the idea of, we gotta start weaponizing what's coming out of the Australian New Wave. Not out of as much a sense of cultural pride, national pride, as I think there's money in them hills. All these good filmmakers seem to be making interesting stuff at an industry that is still so small. Can we turbocharge that by throwing money into it? And so that's how he ends up fully financing Gallipoli. And it was part of what was supposed to be a company that was going to be mimicking this, a larger project. It is the only film they ever make. But Gallipoli gets all this fucking investment. His budget jumps way up from what he had done before because of Murdoch. And the other thing is that there's this energy. It's why Gallipoli gets more of an American distribution deal up front with everyone post Mad Max being like, how do we get Mel Gibson to Hollywood? How do we cross this bridge? This guy is just clearly Like a raw element of movie star. If an Australian filmmaker has Mel Gibson, they've like opened a bunch of doors into our offices.

[Tracy Letts]

Do we have a timeline for what is considered the Australian New wave?

[David Sims]

Great question. I think it's basically like the first film that is marked as like the Australian New wave is like Wake and Fright or the, the comedy Stork.

[Griffin Newman]

And even though 71, we've been corrected, Wake and Fright is directed by Ted Khotchev, who is not in fact Australia.

[David Sims]

This is the whole thing. Walkabout is also marked as an early one, but that's also not directed. But it's like, at least those are films where it's like they're filmed in Australia. And then the adventures of Barry McKenzie, which is 72, which is a Bruce Beresford movie, which is like a silly comedy. But that's, that's starting to spark like independent Australian cinema again. Right. Like homegrown. So early 70s is where you market cars that ate. Paris is 74.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And that's a really, you know, that's a real Kickstarter.

[Griffin Newman]

And then that leads to Mad Max. But this is seen as kind of the beginning of the end because right after this you get into sort of like Brian Trenchard Smith, more kind of like just genre plays, Mad Max sequels, Crocodile Dundee, like the thing has become commercialized.

[David Sims]

Correct. And.

[Griffin Newman]

And most of the breakout directors have gone to Hollywood.

[Tracy Letts]

Right, that makes sense because, you know, I grew up in a small town in Oklahoma and I probably heard. First heard of the Australian New Wave around the year that this comes out.

[David Sims]

So this comes out in America in 83.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[David Sims]

And by then there have been Mad Maxes. I don't know if Road Warrior had like made it to America, but it's probably around when it's.

[Tracy Letts]

I had seen Road Warrior in the theater definitely before this.

[David Sims]

And then like Beyond Thunder dust is 85 and that's that sort of thing where it's like, well, now this has

[Griffin Newman]

gone Hollywood and then Dundee is 86.

[David Sims]

Dundee is 86. Yeah. And then it's over. That it's over. Right. And. And like you're saying like all those guys. So like Beresford, Russell Mulcahy, like even the, the sort of lower level guys,

[Griffin Newman]

they've all gone to Hollywood. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And they, they go, Philip Noyce. Right. And they go make genre stuff mostly.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And then you have Peter Weir and George Miller is the kind of like esteemed, you know, whatever, like Hollywood big shot versions. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, George Miller's the, the odd one because he figures out how to basically keep.

[David Sims]

But he still makes, like, Witches of Eastwick. Like, he's still.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the one that, like, broke him. Where then he's like, if I'm doing this, I'm doing it on my own terms, even if I'm ultimately handing the product over to Hollywood at the end of the day.

[David Sims]

Now, did you see this film when you were, you know, in 83, like, in theaters? Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah. So you would have been, what, 17, 18 years old?

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And what. What drove you to see it? Or was it just. Just seeing everything?

[Tracy Letts]

Well, at that time, I saw everything. I knew who Peter Weir was. And, you know, Mad Max, or I should say the Road Warrior, had announced Mel Gibson as a movie star in the most profound way. Just a theater full of people going, that guy's a fucking movie star, and I'll follow him anywhere, and I want to see what he's got. And of course, Year of Living Dangerously was quite a calling card for him in that it's like, oh, he's not just. He's not an action star. He's not Dolph Lundgren up there. He's smart. He can play the male action star, but he can also play the romantic lead. He's smart. He can also play a guy who's a bit of a son of a bitch. Right. There are a lot more arrows in his quiver. We realized with Year of Living Dangerously,

[Griffin Newman]

I was thinking, watching this and not having seen it before, this maybe feels like his most normal performance ever, because obviously here he's fighting against the Mad Max thing, right? And trying to show his range. He has. But then I feel like when his Hollywood Persona as a movie star settles, it's still using 10% of the mania. You know, it's the Lethal Weapon, it's the Caged Animal thing. And then he can also still be in rom coms or dramas or whatever. But he does have that odd kind of manic energy to him. And this. He is just so fucking steady, you know, he's not charming and schmoozing in the way he is in Gallipoli, where he's such an exciting kind of.

[David Sims]

He's playing like an innocent sort of. Which it's like, not something he really did much.

[Griffin Newman]

Have you ever played someone this kind of, like, simple in a way, not simple in, like, a backhanded way?

[David Sims]

I never saw the river that. Is he playing a kind of this kind of guy in that, like. I'm trying to think of a comparable.

[Tracy Letts]

No, the River. He's playing a Midwestern farmer. Not completely convincingly, but it's not an embarrassment either.

[David Sims]

But yeah, he never really did the kind of slightly bright eyed, you know,

[Griffin Newman]

it was just making me think of how different sort of Hollywood sees development of movie stars now where, like you have a foreign export movie that crosses over here, everyone points and goes, that guy's a fucking movie star. And Hollywood's like, okay, collectively, how do we do this? You know? And there is this feeling of, it's not like one studio signs him to a 10 year deal, but everyone's like, it is worth continuing to throw money at movies that have Mel Gibson in them so we can test them out and grow him incrementally. Like, he needs to be in spring training, right? It helps if he's in a drama. Audiences need to meet him in different flavors. We need to test what he's good at and bad at at a low enough budget level that this will ultimately help all of us. Versus your Taylor Kitsch. You're on Friday Night Lights. And then they're like, great, you're the star of three $200 million movies, but.

[Tracy Letts]

But nobody's actually having. Nobody's actually saying that, right? They're all individually circling it.

[Griffin Newman]

But it did feel like there was a kind of, I don't know, you read about these things, like a collective unconscious in the period between when the studio system kind of collapses and the star contracts, where people are literally saying, we're buying this guy, we're sending him to charm school, we're molding him in our image, things dissipate. But still there is a sense of like, movie stars are rare. If there is one potentially on the board, it benefits all of us to just chip away at this guy. Part of it, I'm sure, is also selfishly like, will Mel Gibson look fondly upon us ten years from now because we financed one of his early films?

[Tracy Letts]

Not to mention what Mel himself wants, right? Because he wants to be taken very serious. You know, eventually he's going to wind up making Hamlet, he's going to wind up making Braveheart. He wants to be taken seriously in this way. So of course he's not going to follow Road Warrior with. I can't think of anything stupid. Well, right.

[David Sims]

Oh, you're trying to think of like, what's the dumb thing?

[Tracy Letts]

What would be the dumb thing he could do?

[David Sims]

What's interesting is that he follows Road Warrior and Year of Living Dangerously with three prestige pictures, none of which I feel like were quite it. Like, there's the Donaldson bounty film, right? Which Is, like, pretty good. It's like.

[Tracy Letts]

Like pretty good.

[David Sims]

Everyone's.

[Tracy Letts]

He gets to be opposite Anthony Hopkins.

[David Sims]

Anthony Hopkins. Everyone's all dressed up and yelling, and it's fine. He does the river, which I feel like didn't really make an impact, but on paper, made sense.

[Tracy Letts]

Who directed the River?

[David Sims]

Mark Rydell.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, right.

[David Sims]

So, like, you know, he. He'd done the Rose that had gone Oscar Noms. He'd done, obviously on Golden Pond. And then he does that thing, Mrs. Saffle with Diane Keaton, which I've never seen, but Fillian Armstrong's a good director, but. Right. Fight like a.

[Griffin Newman]

A bun that feels like he gets stuck in. He's a little too earnest.

[David Sims]

Yeah. And it feels like these are movies that the bigger guys had passed on.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And it was like, well, let's gamble on the. This Australian guy who's so handsome, like, he'll make sense.

[Griffin Newman]

And playing him a little more romantic, maybe.

[David Sims]

And then they're like, Thunderdome. And then Lethal Weapon.

[Griffin Newman]

And then.

[David Sims]

And then it's like, okay, the races. Well, it's off to the races. But it is him doing action for a while. It's like Tequila Sunrise, Air America, like those. And then. But I think he. He grabs the Prestige with, like, Hamlet.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think what they dialed in with Lethal Weapon and with Thunderdome in particular, where he's older, where he's like a more haunted Max, and everything is like, what's the right level of crazy we want here? Maybe we cleaned him up too much, you know, with, like, your Mrs. Softails and stuff. Like, let's get a little bit of the energy back in there. And then those two movies, it's like, we got it. We know who he is. We have a handle on him. Off to the races.

[Tracy Letts]

How old is he when he does A year of living dangerously? Because it's a good question.

[David Sims]

Still quite young. If that film is made around 81, 82. He's. Let me do the math here.

[Griffin Newman]

27.

[David Sims]

No, he's older than that. He was born in 56. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

No, you're right.

[David Sims]

At 26, he's really young.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[David Sims]

He's only 70 now.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And it's obviously been around famous my entire life.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, he is so pretty in this. It is kind of astounding. Just the serenity of his face.

[David Sims]

It's. Look, it's the magic of aging. It means if you're Pacino or whatever, that. But I can show someone like the Godfather, and they're like, I didn't realize it used to look like this. And you're like, yeah, take a look. Like there was a reason everyone was going insane about this.

[Griffin Newman]

Apologies for the tangent, but I, I found recently I went through doing some Wikipedia rabbit holes. Do you know that Al Pacino is actually on the record as as far as we are able to historically document these things as one of the 25 oldest fathers in human history?

[David Sims]

Oh, wow. Okay. Well, good for him. Good for.

[Tracy Letts]

No, I didn't know that.

[Griffin Newman]

Everyone was like, oh, he had a kid, really old. I'm like, yeah. Doesn't that happen like a lot though? And it was like, no. He's like, he's up there.

[David Sims]

Here is a Wikipedia entry, list of oldest fathers on record.

[Griffin Newman]

And a couple of them are questionable. Like the top guy. They're like, that guy might have been adding two decades to his age. And I'm like, then throw him off this list.

[Tracy Letts]

Let me tell you the top 25 you don't know about. They're not on.

[David Sims]

They're not, they're not bragging about it on record.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

There's one guy also, Tony Randall is on this list.

[Griffin Newman]

Tony Randall.

[David Sims]

He had a child at 77.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. He was married to one woman for like 40 or 50 years. She passed away. He married a 20 something. They pumped out two kids really fast and he passed away.

[Tracy Letts]

Tony Randall, also from Tulsa, Oklahoma.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[David Sims]

Guys, it's time to believe in the Hail Mary. Project Hail Mary that is one of the most beloved adventure stories by Andy Weir. Big book. It's now a major motion pictures. There's never been a better time to immerse yourself in the bestselling audiobook. Right. The movie's coming out. Listen to the book.

[Ben Hosley]

Yep.

[David Sims]

All right, so I'll tell you what it's about. There's the sole survivor of a desperate last chance mission in space. Ryland Grace is the character. He's got to save the earth from disaster in an incredible science based thriller. The fan favorite narrator Ray Point Porter brings every moment to life with humor, heart and pulse pounding tension. So that's the guy reading the book now. Blockbuster movies finally arrived in theaters. Never been a better time to start listening to the universally acclaimed audiobook. Part science mystery, part dazzling interstellar journey, project Hail Mary is a tale of discovery, speculation and survival. Listen to the audiobook available on Audible. And the movie starring Ryan Gosling is in theaters now. That's Project Hail Mary. Listen Watch Save the the world. Listen [e-mail] Hail Mary. So the screenplay is written by three people. Right. So Weir and David Williamson are One team. They already had written Gallipoli together. Playwright. Playwright, Right, Playwright. A great playwright, I feel like. Of the. You know.

[Tracy Letts]

And then.

[David Sims]

Sorry, it's Coach or Koch. Koch.

[Tracy Letts]

I think it's Koch.

[David Sims]

Right. Koch wrote his own script, and they kind of merged them, but. Weird. Describes the relationship as bumpy, but it was a little.

[Griffin Newman]

Not Exquisite Corpse, but like these things were happening. Siloed processes that were then mushed together,

[Tracy Letts]

as it usually is. I think when you see multiple screenwriters on a thing, somebody didn't meet somebody else.

[Griffin Newman]

I just think sometimes it's more iterative.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Where it's handed off from one person, I guess that's more Exquisite Corpse. Whereas this. It was more like Frankenstein's monster, where they're like, we got four bodies. Which parts do we want to pluck from each of them, though?

[Tracy Letts]

The movie not. Does not differ from the book in any.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting, Great way.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah. A different narrator, I suppose, is probably the biggest change.

[Griffin Newman]

It's. It's not Billy in the book.

[Tracy Letts]

It's not Billy in the book.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

It's a. It's a. It's another journalist.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Tracy Letts]

In the book.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. But that. That feels very telling, Right. Whether that was Weir's decision or that Weir responded to someone else suggesting that. Yeah, it does feel like kind of.

[Tracy Letts]

No, it's a big.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the most important framework the movie provides. Yeah. Yeah. For how to read it, in my opinion.

[David Sims]

So Kosh says, you know, there was initial publicity that left his name off. He. He says he sort of fought for the screenplay credit and that, you know, as it always is with these sort of screenwriting disputes, everyone's got their story, but we're. He. Coach says, I gave Weir a screenplay. He liked it. He took it to CBS in America. They didn't like the script. And so, you know, there was a polish. It turned into a rewrite. And Coach is like, I know I'm not trying to be like the sensitive novelist here, but, like, you know, they had fucked up my story, and I fought to put stuff back in. And so Weir kind of rewrites the rewrite. The rewrite was done by a guy called Alan Sharp, who wrote Night Moves. Like a Hollywood guy. Weir rewrites the Sharp script more in the direction of what Kosh is interested in. CBS drops out. Williamson then comes on board. Koch's final estimates is that the script is 55% Williamson, Weir, 45% me, Sharp excised, which was the stuff he really didn't like. So, you know, he's moderately happy. Peter Weir's take is, I ate the novel. I digested it, and it was delicious. I can only recall the taste. But what I then spoke as a result of the experience was my way of telling the story. He really has a way with words. Like, not a lot of guys sat down in front of a DWGA panel or whatever and was like, well, I ate the script and it tasted good.

[Griffin Newman]

I will say in our months of reading and watching interviews with Peter Weir, and as someone who loves to just drive a bit into the ground, his commitment to metaphors in talking about his process, he will pick one and he will really stick with it and ride it out to the end of the thought.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So. Right. They altered the Kwan character. Weir says he's much less likable in the novel. Would you agree?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And I guess he wanted sort of to alter the balance of that. So in what way is he not likable? Is he just, like, more of a cynical kind of?

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah. I think my. My recollection of it is that he's. Quan is more manipulative.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Because, like, this movie frames. It is a film that positions Quan as the hero of the story. It is almost kind of like Big Trouble in Little China in many ways, of sort of like, here's your, like, fake lead at the center. But actually, this movie's being driven by this person who would never be allowed to be the center of a story.

[David Sims]

He also says he filled out Jill's character more in the book. The character's pregnant. He felt like that was a little too much. Like, essentially, why would she be sort of throwing herself into all of this? Why would Hamilton be interested in a further complication of that? So they removed that. And it's just essentially, I assume this is correct. And we were saying the book is More. Were very much about the politics of the time. And the movie is not really. Not that it's. It's. How am I trying? Like, it's like this movie could be set in other moments of sort of critical change in a country.

[Tracy Letts]

I guess you don't need to know anything about Indonesian history or politics in order to enjoy the movie. The Year of Living Dangerous.

[David Sims]

You need to, you know that there is essentially a sort of coup that happens at the end of the film. But. But, like, this is a crazy and fascinating moment in Indonesian, like, history. And it's only. And, like, the point is that he's only grasping little bits of it.

[Tracy Letts]

Anyway.

[Griffin Newman]

I guess I will say I'm the opposite of David in this regard, where I more than anything value a movie that can be in conversation with real historical events, but not require you to open a bunch of Wikipedia tabs. I don't look to those films as educational resources. I don't walk out of them going, clearly, I know everything. But I like the ability to sort of tell a story adjacent to. In tandem with real hard history that just kind of works as a complete closed loop on its own, dramatically.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, how well do you know Vienna Post World War II? How well do you need to know it in order to enjoy the Third Man?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, right.

[Tracy Letts]

I mean, we're going to give you just enough context so you know what the fuck is going on.

[David Sims]

Right, right. It's a job in any movie.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think we're is in particular very good at that. Almost all of his films are in conversation with larger, thornier issues that are too hard to compress down narratively. But he is telling one very clear emotional story within that.

[Tracy Letts]

But of course, you've also got the problem, the issue of Peter Weir and David Williamson and CJ Koch and Mel Gibson and Sigourney Weaver telling you a story set in exotic Indonesia.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And I think that's a lot of this movie's tricky. Like standing at this present moment is just taking a little cursory view. A letterbox. I feel like there is a conversation for a movie that's a little bit lost. And part of this is no proper physical media representation, not streaming in the regular cruddy streaming. Right. Like, yeah, is. Is this movie a peak example of kind of Hollywood exoticism, even though it was not fully a Hollywood movie? Or is this a movie that is actually kind of interrogating that. Which does not mean is not guilty of any of the attributes. But I do think, and I. I especially think this in having watched the earlier Australian films up until this point, I do think that is very deliberately what he is doing. I think he is very skillful at making movies where he is owning what his perspective is and the limitations of his perspective and working that in textually and narratively and commenting within that. But I think everything we're saying about the recentering of the Billy Kwan character, which we will get to momentarily, is its own major conversation. Is what he's really trying to say here of like. Like, here's a story of a guy who lands in a foreign country that is under great turmoil and is primarily focused on advancing his own career with a sense of kind of back Patty. I want to be doing the right thing and falls in love and has a Hot. Fucking two movie stars at the prime of physical specimenship.

[David Sims]

I mean, Sigourney is Love Affair. Stunning.

[Griffin Newman]

The two of them look unbelievable in this, but it's like they're just getting it on while people are really fucking suffering.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And, you know, but the movie's very conscious of that. Right. And the actual story is this Billy Kwan character trying to push these kind of useful idiots into helping, you know, rather than hurting. And.

[David Sims]

But without, like, Billy never wants to tip his hand. Like he cares too much, that he's paying too much attention to everybody, that he's keeping his files.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, even the question of, like, why. Why do you have access to the president? You know, why do you have his ear? That he's just sort of kept tabs on everything for any moment. He feels like he can move the chess pieces around the board to help the cause. But of course, the tragedy of this movie is like Billy Kwan falls out a window and Sigourney Weaver and Mel Gibson get on a plane and get to go, like, well, that was interesting, but back to our normal life and they just leave the problem there.

[Tracy Letts]

That's right. And does Weird get away with something? Because he's already established his liberal bona fides. These story points that you talk about, colonialism in Australia, is he given us a little extra credit for that? Whereas the people who made Casablanca or the Third man are not given that kind of credit. I mean, obviously, when I saw this movie in 1983 in a movie theater, none of this shit ever crossed my mind. Right. But I see it now in a different light. Right. 40 years changes the perspective was.

[David Sims]

Yes. I wonder what. Yeah, right. What. What the sort of discourse was at the time. Because this was a big ish film.

[Griffin Newman]

It was, well in Indonesia until like, well, 2000.

[David Sims]

Yeah, well, it's not a country that.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, I know.

[David Sims]

Allowed discourse on its politics until the 21st century.

[Griffin Newman]

But also.

[David Sims]

And even after that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yes, there was discourse. And what was it? Death threats against Weir and Gibson from Muslims who believed the film would be anti Islamic, force the production to move to Australia.

[David Sims]

Yes, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Because they were going from the Philippines. Yes, yes.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Because.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, no, it was supposed to film in Jakarta, which is in Indonesia. Right. Then it was denied, so then it moved to the Philippines, and then they had to end up filming the final chunk of it in Sydney.

[Tracy Letts]

Got it. Because all the actors, I believe, who. Who are not the three principals or four principals are Filipino actors.

[David Sims]

Yes. Ultimately, these films, financed by mgm, the first of their Freddie Fields era of famous super agent who was the president of MGM in the 80s. Cost 6 million American. Sorry, Australian dollars. Don't know what that translates to, but sort of a small to medium spend, I guess.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. About 10, I think, based on the math we did for Gallipoli, I was

[Tracy Letts]

about to go the other direction. All right, good to know.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

I think they supported the Linda Hunt casting choice, which was sort of a fraught choice.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. So he cast David Atkins at first, who is like, an Australian dancer and a national treasure. Sure.

[David Sims]

And I assume they cast him more for sort of like, a physical reason. And then they, like, start doing rehearsals with Gibson and they're like, oh, he cannot hold his own.

[Griffin Newman]

He was. He was a small Caucasian man, but not a man with dwarfism.

[David Sims]

Right. And so they start, like, looking for, you know, anybody, essentially. They. They look in America because they had. According to. We're exhausted. They're casting, like, sessions in Australia and Hong Kong and London. Wallace Shawn tested, which is.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin Newman]

Unbelievable to imagine. And the other one is Bob Balabin.

[Tracy Letts]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

They were like. Who are tiny guys with particular energies who can be pulling, like, Mel Gibson's suit jacket. I mean, beyond just the fact that Linda Hunt gives such a good performance. In talking about everything that is tricky about watching this performance today, it is, I just think, helpful to envision how much worse it could have been.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Because that's a night to imagine Wallace Shawn doing this. No disrespect to the great Wallace, of course. It's like, the film would be illegal.

[David Sims]

A thing that Linda Hunt is famous for. After this movie is Aunt Dan and Lemon, the Wallace Shawn play she's in, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

It's funny that they inter. I have no idea if this came up of, like, what was your Billy Kwan audition?

[Griffin Newman]

I found a whole interview with her where she was talking about it and comparing notes with him. That's.

[David Sims]

There you go.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So, you know, how did. So bad casting session in la. He's reading the Gibson park, you know,

[Griffin Newman]

for David or David Atkins or. You're saying Wallacean.

[David Sims]

No, no, no. Weir is, like, reading with people. He's reading Gibson's lines like, everything sucks, apparently.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And a casting director holds up a photograph, and he was like, that's perfect. And the casting director was laughing, and it's like, no, this is a woman. And Weir is like, I was just desperate. And I was like, I want to meet her, please.

[Griffin Newman]

She had done one movie up until this point. She had been in Robert Altman's Popeye as part of basically the ensemble of Sweet Haven. I think she is Roundhouse's mother, maybe.

[David Sims]

Right. And she'd done Broadway, she'd done some theater.

[Griffin Newman]

She'd done a lot of theater.

[Tracy Letts]

She had gone to the theater School at DePaul University, formerly the Goodman School of Drama. And I believe she was cut. I think she was cut from that program. And then when she became very famous, they went back to her and said, would you mind if we said you were unbelievable. An alum.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, she's a. She's a New Jersey native, Ben, but from Marstown.

[Tracy Letts]

Grew up in Westport, I believe.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And. And she's, as a teenager, diagnosed with hypopituitary dwarfism. Right.

[David Sims]

She's four, nine.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. She is a Caucasian woman.

[David Sims]

This is so true. True. This is unbelievably true.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. It couldn't be more true.

[David Sims]

She asked. I think the sensitivity at the time was more that she was like, can we rewrite this to be a woman? Like, she was a little bit more like, I'm not sure I can pull off playing a guy. I don't know how much. Unfortunately, there was hand wringing over, like, you know, putting someone in yellowface at the time.

[Griffin Newman]

When you read the response at the time, or people talk about the making of the movie, it. It felt like their concern was, will this look silly? Not is this offensive?

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, it was. This is a big swing. And in a serious dramatic film, does it throw the entire thing off balance? And the fact that it doesn't and that her performance is so good. It is. Fantasy's been talking about this a lot recently. It is one of those rare examples of a Best supporting Actress win that's basically a cakewalk. And the only nomination that movie got, you know, so crazy. It's similar to the Amy Madigan weapons thing of just people being like, yeah, this is just like. This is kind of one in a million thing. This immediately, like, is stuck in everyone's mind.

[Tracy Letts]

I mean, it's kind of hard to imagine you're living dangerously without Linda Hunt in it. It is the defining element you make with the movie. I think, weirdly, David, that it's considered brown face. It's a fair point, because she's portraying a South Asian, Southeast Asian, correct person.

[David Sims]

And this is clearly something I'm very good at parsing out and talking about in, like, an intellectual.

[Griffin Newman]

Like, it's.

[David Sims]

No, you're right. I mean.

[Tracy Letts]

But no, nobody was concerned about that in 1982, and nor am I going to. Yes. But the Decision at the time. Right. We show the movies to our kids that come with the disclaimers. Now, this was wrong at the time. It's wrong now. And I believe that absolutely to be true. True.

[David Sims]

Yeah, that's. And that's how I feel. The thing with this one that's so odd is it's not like Breakfast at Tiffany's or whatever, where you're like, well, this is. This is plainly offensive at the time. And it's just playing into a stereotype at all.

[Griffin Newman]

This, you know, like, Remo Williams, the Adventure Begins is only like a year or two after this and has Joel Gray playing a villainous character who is like, borderline Fu Manchu. And that is a performance that gets, like, a Golden Globe nomination.

[David Sims]

But that. That was Hollywood at the time.

[Griffin Newman]

They were, like, obsessed with the stunt of.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It was as if. My God. And this is. I. I'm choosing my language very carefully here. I'm saying that this was their attitude at the time, and this is exactly what the danger of the dehumanization was. It was treated as, can you believe this human being convincingly played a dog? You know, that it was like, oh, they.

[David Sims]

Of course it's acting, my friend.

[Griffin Newman]

And makeup in a voice. And they changed the whole thing. And now we obviously have, like, an entirely different language for how we consider, like, who should play what and how. It is interesting that it feels like the gender part of this is the most interesting part of the performance, the most powerful, and I actually think would be seen as progressive today in my

[Tracy Letts]

mind, in that light. It would. I'll also tell you, you know, when you're the director and you're setting up the auditions and you're working with a casting director, and you say, what we need from this character is a half Chinese, half Australian dwarf, right. Of a. Within a certain age, right? And you set up the auditions, and then you look out in the waiting room and you go, they're not. They're not out there. They're not. They're not coming in. Because. Not to say they didn't exist, but say there are four of them out there, Chinese, Australian, people with dwarfism who are coming into audition, and maybe two of them are the wrong age, and one of them is just terrible, and one of them, you're like, oh, maybe we should make this work.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not gonna, like, like, rank the levels of offensiveness of which things are touchier than others. But it's like, what if you find the right guy and he's 6 foot 7 and now he's like walking with like shoes on his knees, you know. And it did feel like the part of this that felt risky creatively was the gender element. And it is the thing that gives this movie this, like, entirely different, like, power and text. I don't know if it's just me watching this from for the first time yesterday, but it feels like baked in. And I was. It was this interview I found that Linda Hunt did with Bomb magazine where she's talking about having just done the run of the Wallace Shawn play. And she said, like, that was deliberate in my mind, that, like, I am playing a supra personality, that I am not trying to play a man. And you watch this now and it, it feels like there is a reading that is pretty easy to get to of this character being like an Albert Knobbs, of being someone who has assumed a different gender identity, whether out of personal expression or out of means of survival. And that is kind of like the secret the movie is holding. And I think that was the thing that just made this performance so transfixing that, you know, in an era where people are just doing kind of race swapped casting offensively without any delicacy, playing into stereotypes without any larger gain, this performance is not doing that. Or rather that's not the main driving force. So people were just like, fucking hand her the Oscar right away. And as a kid growing up in the 90s and trying to learn about Oscar history, it was such a weird thing to stumble upon and be like, in the 80s, they gave best supporting actress to a. A woman playing a Filipino man. And it's like someone I haven't heard of, but now that you're pointing her out, she does just kind of pop up in things.

[Tracy Letts]

Does he? Do you suppose there's any consciousness that he's indemnifying the brown face decision by. By doing that gender swipe?

[Griffin Newman]

I do wonder.

[Tracy Letts]

I.

[David Sims]

But I really think the way he presents it is more just the total desperation of we could not find anyone even close to being good for this.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right.

[David Sims]

And it's such a unique and specific role. And then he at one point was like, should I make the character even more physically unusual? Should I make it a hunchback? Should I essentially just kind of transform it in a way that it might fit other actors? Right. And then he pulls back from that because he finds Linda Hunt. I do think Linda Hunt wins the Oscar because she's good. I do also think she wins because it was one of those kind of like, well, like you said, like, well, this has never happened before. We have to sort of acknowledge what an unusual performance this is.

[Tracy Letts]

Who else was nominated that year?

[David Sims]

That's a good question.

[Griffin Newman]

Weird year I was looking at because it's Cher for Silkwood, who I think wins the Golden Globe. The SAG doesn't exist yet.

[David Sims]

Right. And that's Cher's entree.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

You know, like, of into being taken seriously. And she'll win.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Maybe Cher was going to be the front runner.

[David Sims]

This is the year. So it's Sharon Silkwood, Amy Irving and Yentle. A lovely performance, but probably not going to win. Alfre Wooden and Cross Creek, which is a great performance, but is a small movie. And again, probably sort of like a welcome. Welcome to the biz, know. And then Glenn Close in the Big Chill, which is not like the definitive Close performance, but I feel like now they'd look back and be like, should we just fucking give it to her for that? And this is what saves us the headache of. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Every time they nominated her, they were like, but we'll give it to her for the next one.

[Tracy Letts]

And she was the only actor nominated

[David Sims]

from the Big Chill, which is weird because she is good in it, but she doesn't actually have a big role.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it just speaks to her status that she was. So she has the scene where she

[David Sims]

cries in the shower.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Which is like a big Oscar y kind of of scene. Yeah. But like, if I'm giving someone an Oscar for that movie, it's like Joe Beth Williams or something.

[Tracy Letts]

I don't know.

[David Sims]

It's someone else.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, it's absolutely the argument for an ensemble award.

[David Sims]

It is.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, that would have won Best Big Chill.

[Tracy Letts]

Would have won it hands down.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And then who's the fifth nominee again?

[David Sims]

Is Linda Hunt. It's a. So Linda Hunt shared. Glenn Close, Amy Irving, Alfre Woodard.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right. Okay.

[David Sims]

Good year. Great performance. Interesting year.

[Griffin Newman]

It's interesting year year.

[David Sims]

That's. That's the Terms of Endearment year.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And they run both of them in lead.

[David Sims]

Yes. So surely. Right. Like, you could have put. Today they would have put McLean in supporting.

[Griffin Newman]

No, I think they would have put Deborah in supporting. And it would have been.

[David Sims]

If that would have put McLean in supporting, which is weird.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you're. You're disregarding the kind of like, I know what you're arguing elder statesman rule. I. I would point to Carol as the analogy.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but. But Officer and gentleman already come out. So Deborah Winger was a big movie star and that movie's more about her. And McClain is the sparky supporting character like in this bullshit read of it. Like, I think Deborah would have been lead and might have won. Maybe they should have done some category, but Linda Hunt won. Linda Hunt's such an interesting actor who has such a crazy interesting career in some ways, but he's also someone that like, obviously Hollywood never really knows what to do.

[Griffin Newman]

No, there's just a fascinating kind of like paycheck run. And I don't say that disparagingly where the studios are like, this person's interesting. How can we work her into our big movies? And you're like, oh, she's like the madam running the saloon in Silverado. She's like the stern principal in Kindergarten Cop. There's a good series of big studio paycheck gigs for her that all use her in an interesting way.

[Tracy Letts]

Another one or two altogether. Movies too. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

She's in Pret A Porter.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then she ends up on. She was on a 90s legal show. And then she was on NCIS.

[David Sims]

She's on the Practice. Yes, but as like one of the judges. But NCIS for 100 years.

[Tracy Letts]

She was on the show for 100.

[Griffin Newman]

Los Angeles.

[David Sims]

Los Angeles, right. I always forget if it was New Orleans or Los Angeles.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a thing I discovered that I just. I'm so happy I did the research and stumbled upon this myself. Linda Hunt twice won the Teen Choice Award. Surfboard for choice female TV star Colon Action for ncasla. Yes.

[David Sims]

Those awards, of course, are full of integrity and voted on by Action.

[Tracy Letts]

Wait a minute. They give a surfboard?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, you win a whole surfboard.

[David Sims]

You got a gun for one of these. You got your Pulitzer, you got your Tony.

[Griffin Newman]

You got to get a surfboard.

[Tracy Letts]

You go up on stage and they give you a.

[Griffin Newman]

Was desperately trying to find a video of her accepting the surfer on her IMDb she is credited once as self at one of those ceremonies, but I could not find any video of it. But both years I think the category was exactly the same. I believe she beat Yvonne Strahski for Chuck, Maggie Q for the Lem Nikita TV show. Like, it's like four TV shows.

[David Sims]

Chalene Woodley accepting a surfboard.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, it's a full surfboarding.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It was two years in a row, the exact same nominees.

[Tracy Letts]

I think I just like, leave the. Leave it in the. Like in the. In a parking spot, you know, outside.

[Griffin Newman]

Just like, yeah, no, you gotta ride that home. I just love that it was four women in high heels who kicked people and that both times they were like the teens have spoken. And they like Linda Hunt sitting behind a desk.

[Tracy Letts]

What if you don't surf? This is my.

[David Sims]

What are you gonna do?

[Tracy Letts]

Surfing board.

[David Sims]

Sell it, Frame it.

[Tracy Letts]

Do we call it a surfing board?

[David Sims]

This is. Again, you're sort of. You're not really a Hollywood guy, I'm feeling here.

[Griffin Newman]

But to this point, it's like this wasn't an anointment of a career. She was basically unknown to most of Hollywood. She was, you know, established in theater, but had done almost no on camera work. And then Hollywood is like, I guess we gotta cast her and stuff. But she never becomes, you know, like, you look back and go, like, oh, that makes sense that Linda Hunt has an Oscar.

[David Sims]

She got a Tony nomination for End of the World, a play I don't really know. In the 80s. Yeah, that's about. That's a. Yeah. Anyway, she's in the film. Gibson, obviously was the choice to begin with. Apparently. He was vaguely wary of the character, I think, because he'd never done that kind of a thing. Right. The sort of more cool detachment just

[Griffin Newman]

to hold the censor thing.

[David Sims]

Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Sigourney Weaver, Peter. We're like the film Alien.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like many of us. And so, I don't know. He didn't. He didn't like, you know, didn't have to press too hard.

[Griffin Newman]

Her time in between Alien and Ghostbusters wasn't rocky, but you do look back at it and you feel her fighting against getting pigeonholed as just genre, as

[David Sims]

sort of an action queen or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And it feels like she tries a lot of interesting stuff when she and Ghostbusters can prove that she's funny. And then that's followed by Aliens and Gorillas in the Mist and everything. Like by 84, 85, it's like, oh, Sigourney Weaver can do anything.

[David Sims]

But she only does one movie in between, dangerously, which is Eyewitness.

[Tracy Letts]

She and Bill Hurt, both kind of anointed new movie stars at that point.

[David Sims]

Never seen. They're like journalists. Right. They're like Peter Yates.

[Tracy Letts]

Right. I think James woods is also in that. That's not bad.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Tracy Letts]

You know, when she had been in college, she'd gone to school with Christopher Durang.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

And he had written these plays. They would do these plays in college. And he wrote these roles for her where she was kind of the, you know, in a sense, he's writing. Yeah. They were very, very much comedies. And she got to do lots of wacky stuff or be kind of of the fact that she was tall, statuesque, Beautiful, long legged and yet being in these screwball comedies or playing a kind of Margaret Dumont character in these things that Durang would write. So it makes sense that after Alien she would say, well that's not really who I. I'm not really an ass kicking action star. I do different stuff. But in Year of Living Dangerously she and Mel, Right. Find an opportunity to play. I mean she's just so smart, right. Her, her screen Persona is so fucking smart. And so you can imagine a lot of actors who would feel not, not equipped to play this role that she plays in years of Living Dangerously.

[Griffin Newman]

She has really good, tremendous amount of intelligence and authority on screen that just is established. Second one when you see her.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

In a movie that doesn't have a ton of time to backfill character.

[David Sims]

Right after this is when she does Hurley Burley on Broadway, which I feel like was another kind of big deal.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Does she do much theater now like

[Tracy Letts]

she did Christopher Durang? Right. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That was the last one, I think so.

[Tracy Letts]

She doesn't do a lot of it these days.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Is she in these Avatar things?

[David Sims]

She sure is. She crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry. Glad you asked. In in a stroke of almost linta Linda Hunt esque casting.

[David Sims]

It is bizarre what they do with her.

[Griffin Newman]

Sigourney weaver plays a 13 year old alien. So in the first film it is a phenomenal performance.

[David Sims]

In the first film, Sigourney Weaver plays the scientist, a human person.

[Griffin Newman]

She's like a chain smoking tired. I'm trying to make these avatars. How do people become aliens?

[David Sims]

She dies in the first film. Spoiler alert. But her mind is uploaded of course to a mind tree or don't worry about it.

[Tracy Letts]

When you say spoiler alert after the spoiler is kind of loses some of

[Griffin Newman]

it a little bit.

[David Sims]

And then in the second and third films she plays in a Na', Vi, an alien. So motion capture performance. But they use the motion capture so that she can play a 13 year old girl.

[Griffin Newman]

But it looks like her alien. It's. It looks like Sigourney Weaver's face on a 13 year old blue cat alien. And she is so good in the films and she is such a. A well observed performance of a teenager.

[David Sims]

It is. She's here she is.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, there you go.

[David Sims]

Anyway, but back to the year of living dangerously. It's just so exciting having on the show and I feel like we just want to tell you all these things.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. We're excitedly showing you our like macaroni

[David Sims]

as we said they, you know, they, they Were never really going to do Indonesia. They shot in Manila, which was very arduous. Then there were terrorist threats, which was a problem. Manila is a very Catholic city at the time, I think. Then they start shooting in a village that's very heavily Muslim. And this causes a lot of friction. And they, I think, don't know how much of a mess they're making by doing all of this. Like they're just blundering around making their movie, so they eventually have to retreat to. I mean, at one point a note was left in a vehicle saying, in the name of Allah the Almighty, stop your imperialistic film or we will stop you.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the thing. The discourse of this movie, I think it was not touchy in the style dates. It was touchy the places they were filming.

[Tracy Letts]

That makes sense.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

So Weir's like, we're gonna leave. Imelda Marcos, the then first lady, but a big Filipino politician, obviously, personally reaches out and begs them like, don't leave. We'll figure this out. But Weir is just kind of like, this is too fucked up. We don't need to be dealing with all this life first movie. Second is how he puts it. So then they do another six weeks in Sydney recreating some of the sets, like patching it all together. And yeah, the, the biggest battle. What do you think the biggest battle over this movie was after it was, you know, final cut? The biggest battle, like the biggest kind of like us sensor kind of, you know, like, you know, the, the studio thing. Like, it's that there's child nudity, that there's the boy naked when he's sick and that, like, isn't that, you know, isn't that how it goes though? Like, you know, it's like they're like, well, wait a second though. Why are we seeing a penis? I don't like a child's penis from

[Tracy Letts]

the dead child being Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Priorities there may be a little out of whack.

[David Sims]

Film came out December 82 in Australia, January, late January 83 in America. So Linda Hunt wins an Oscar for a performance that was a year plus old.

[Griffin Newman]

Wild.

[David Sims]

Like she only she wins in the 84 Oscars.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And looking through it, it really felt like she just sort of swept all the critic awards.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It must have been a performance that people were like, that was interesting. Obviously that's not a traditional OSC winning performance. And then it became such a critics cause that she, she carried it all the way. I just think back to the casting thing for a second. An interesting comparison point that I Saw people pointing out on letterboxd to your point of like, yes, it is incredibly hard to cast these things. Right. And in theater you were granted more sort of latitude. If people can play things representationally and in film we expect a kind of literalism. And how do you find the real person and also know that they can deliver what's necessary for the role. And all of that, which is none of this said as an excuse. Right. Just the casting is an incredibly tricky art form. The weird kind of counter to this movie is Killing Fields two years later where they hire Hayang Nes Nigor, who basically just was the guy he was playing and he wins an Oscar as well, you know, and it's in an academy that has very rarely awarded Asian actors at all. He is one of the few. And it's basically he is considered. It's him and Harold Russell from Best Years of Our Lives are the two times that someone who was like straight up a non professional actor, we hired this guy based on life experience and it worked even then, you know, it's going to be hard if you go, well, let's just assume we can direct them and we can get the performance out of them. We have to find a 4 foot 9 half Australian Filipino dwarf. It's still like a tough challenge, you know, years ago, just to literally identify that human being alive on the planet, Right? Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Years ago I did a play of mine called Linda Vista and there's a Vietnamese American character in Linda Vista. And we went about trying to cast this role and trying to cast a Vietnamese actor in Chicago was challenging. We eventually got there. I have a Chinese, Korean, American friend who said to me, why are you trying to cast a Vietnamese person? You're not going to find a Vietnamese person. You just cast an Asian person. And I said, but don't you think that the Vietnamese person would have a different perspective on that and would want to see themselves, want to see the Vietnamese person represented on stage by a Vietnamese actor. And she said, that's not the way we look at it. She said, if I have to wait for the role to come up, that's a Chinese, Korean, American, I've already got a limited number of roles I can play. And now you're going to tell me that I can only play a role if it's Chinese, Korean, American. Well, I don't know what Linda Hunt would say since she has dwarfism about a role that comes up in which she's being asked to play a dwarf.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Tracy Letts]

Now, would she say something different now than she said back in 1982. I don't know.

[David Sims]

Know.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't know. It. It's. We're not handwaving or excusing any of it. There are, like, two fundamental truths, which is this casting would never happen today. And this performance is extraordinary. And it is like, really the juice of the movie in every way. And. And back to just the reframing around this character is the whole reason this movie works for me. On top of her. Just nailing the performance so hard. But I think today there would be some form of reconceptualization around the character somehow.

[Tracy Letts]

I think today a director would say, let's find that person before I do anything else.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

It's like, I've got to know that I've got that person. I mean, that I can build this movie around.

[Griffin Newman]

There was. Whatever. Years ago, 2019, Steven Spielberg announced he was going to make that movie about the. The kid.

[David Sims]

It's been made since then, you know, like.

[Griffin Newman]

But he announced it as his next film. And they said, and now we begin the worldwide casting search for the kid. And basically, after two years, he was like, I can't make this movie. We never found the kid. And if you're Steven Spielberg, you have the clout to be given the money and the Runway to search, knowing that you might not find the kid if you're Peter Weir at this point in your career.

[David Sims]

Oh, I know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. They're saying to you, here's when you start filming.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah. In.

[David Sims]

In Manila, no less.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. You decide who's playing that role. But we're not waiting around for four years. Mel's got, like, two more fucking Mad Maxes to make or whatever.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So the film we should discuss a little more in depth, I would imagine. You know, what. What do we.

[Griffin Newman]

It opens with Billy Kwan, a character who we'll later find out is dead.

[Tracy Letts]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

But is telling the story of the film to us.

[Tracy Letts]

Sure, sure.

[David Sims]

You're right. He's narrating from beyond in.

[Griffin Newman]

In. In diary form form.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, Right.

[David Sims]

In a way.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

But does this mean we're done with the dossier?

[David Sims]

We are. I'm sorry.

[Tracy Letts]

No, it's all right. I. I'm the only thing left there

[David Sims]

is, you know, the reviews, the reception of the film, which I can tell

[Griffin Newman]

you there are specific questions we can always plug.

[David Sims]

I can tell you played at can. I can tell you that it was well received by critics. And we're. These days is sort of like. I'm not sure about that film's legacy, but I'm glad You know, it still exists. He doesn't talk about it in a reverential way exactly, but I think it was a pain to make.

[Tracy Letts]

Here's what I don't know yet. How do you feel about this?

[David Sims]

I love this. I love this film. I. You know, sensitivities aside and all, like the things we discuss, like, I just. It's just the kind of movie I really respond to because it's sexy, but also, like, politically complex and rewarding in its complexity. Just not giving you an easy answer. Not giving you an easy guy to root for. He makes mistakes that are identifiable mistakes to me. He behaves in a way that I'm like, yeah, I don't know that I would really be of upright integrity here either. I don't know that I would know how to navigate this situation, but I would be kind of thrilled by it. Or. And it's just a film that feels very relevant always. You can say it's relevant now. Everything's relevant now. Right now. Everything is.

[Griffin Newman]

Right now, everything is relevant. But, like, the Super Mario Galaxy movie has never been more relevant.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

All.

[David Sims]

All films. But, like, capturing, like, the feeling of a country on the brink of something is hard to do. Like, and I love any movie that does that. And I love, like, Rossellini movies or what I'm trying to think of, like, what are other movies that you would put in that genre of, like, sort of films about a revolution but that aren't about, like, the instigators of that revolution? I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

That's an interesting question.

[David Sims]

But I love revolutions.

[Tracy Letts]

Missing.

[David Sims]

Missing is. Yeah. Another film that's impossible to find right now. Right. Isn't missing a.

[Tracy Letts]

It's not a criteria.

[David Sims]

Oh, it's not criteria. Then I should go fuck myself.

[Griffin Newman]

But Gallipoli is not.

[Tracy Letts]

Not inherent in my comment that you should go fuck yourself.

[Griffin Newman]

Gallipoli is. Is similar in that regard. It is, you know, backgrounding a giant historical moment and showing it to you only through the perspective of people who don't understand how important what is happening around them is actually going to be.

[David Sims]

Yes, I like what I. Look, I'm no expert on Indonesia. I don't know if you are. Are you?

[Tracy Letts]

I am not an expert on Indonesia.

[Griffin Newman]

This is good to get out there.

[David Sims]

But like. Like Sukarno, from what I understand, Sukarno was not a communist, but he was sort of like, loosely aligning himself, left wing. Loosely aligning himself with the Soviets, maybe loosening. Loosely is drifting from the Americans. And what's happening in this movie is The Amer, the west, the Americans, the Brits, the whatever. The old nasty stakeholders are like, let's fucking sew chaos so that we can get our guy in.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Like, that's what happened in Indonesia. Right. Because, like, Suharto is. The guy who replaces him is. He's like, you know, I'll do what the Americans.

[Tracy Letts]

David is saluting for those of you listening at home.

[David Sims]

And I know that I am embarrassingly simplifying Indonesian, like, politics here, but. Right. Like. And I just love that in. What's up?

[Griffin Newman]

Well.

[Ben Hosley]

Cause I. I was really trying to figure out, like, he seems to be this figure, like a hero.

[David Sims]

He is. Is Sukarno or. Yeah, he is. He's the father of, like, Indonesian independence. Like, right. They broke off from. They were controlled by the Dutch for, you know, a hundred fucking more. I mean, how many, you know, hundreds of years. They were the Dutch East Indies. And like, post war, he's the leader

[Tracy Letts]

of their independence movement and completely anti imperialist. Right. He. He doesn't want anything to do with the colonizers.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

And.

[David Sims]

And.

[Tracy Letts]

And therefore sets himself up as a leader of the country. But of course, he's terribly corrupt as well.

[David Sims]

And that's what the tension of especially Billy Kwan. I mean, everyone else here is. They're drifting in here because it's interesting. Like, Billy Kwan wants Sukarno to help. And Sukarno, like. And I guess identifies in Sukarno. Like, you know, good. Right. Like, you could be doing good. I mean, like, were I in charge of a nation of what, 10,000 islands with, like, 400 million languages and, like, they had just been liberated from Dutch bond. I. Yes, I imagine corruption would reign. I don't really know. Like, the. This is what. I don't know. Like, was Sukarno a bad leader? Like, I don't think so. Like, I think it was just, like an insane and complicated situation that then the west kind of, like, blew up.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think there's an interesting chicken the egg thing when you look at, like, radical revolutionary movements and how often those leaders are proven to be corrupt and whether there is some driving force in them that pushes the politics, even if ultimately helpful to their people, so that they can achieve their own ultimate desires and gains. Or if it's just classic fucking absolute power corrupts absolutely. But so often you have these arcs of the person being the savior, ultimately becoming the exact kind of person that they existed to topple. Yeah, a little. Not the exact same thread of that

[David Sims]

happening, but I think it never actually even really came to that.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not even saying with him in general. I'm saying like globally, across history. That is a thing that repeats itself.

[David Sims]

History aside. I just like how the film captures that, you know, all of that ambiguity.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

While still being a 100 minute sexy journalism thriller.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, also to the point what I

[David Sims]

like, it's a pretty darn watch watchable movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

But it's not a movie where he's gonna break the case and fucking save the day. And it's not a movie where he's like the white savior or whatever, you know, like it doesn't. Avoids all these.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like an anti white savior movie. Even though it is obviously placing this guy doesn't feel like yells at the

[David Sims]

audience at any point.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's. It's why I said the like, useful idiot thing is there is this sense of like, as you said, Billy Kwan being like, man. And if someone could get through to this guy, he really could help everybody. And he identifies guy. Literally just some white dude named Guy who's handsome and charming and is like. He might listen to him if I can load the right ideas into his head and he can go relay them. And he's a better delivery system than maybe I would be. Does that affect change?

[Tracy Letts]

I find that idea very moving that what's going on globally, politically, what's going on in this country is so far beyond the reach of the characters. They really don't understand quite the world they're operating in. And they basically, one of them dies and the other two run away.

[Griffin Newman]

They get to just live a fucking Hollywood romance.

[David Sims]

A scene that I love is when they make it through the checkpoint, it's so tense and then they're laughing even though they're. They just witnessed like state murder.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And I'd probably because, like, they're just so exhilarated and they're like, you know, happy to be alive. You wouldn't put that in a Hollywood version. No, because it makes him look like a jerk.

[Griffin Newman]

It is, it is begging to be misread. Whereas I view that as pointed. And part of that is the prism of looking at his other films and the continuity of his viewpoints. I brought it up in other episodes, but there is one of the. The first things Peter Weir did was he made one of the chapters in an omnibus movie called Three To Go that was truly like the very beginning of the Australian new wave. Let's get these kids out of film school and try to make a movie commenting on the youth of Australia. And it's. It's three different stories of three different characters. And he made one called Michael that is about a upper middle class, kind of very coddled, privileged, kind of well meaning, liberal intellectual kid who is fighting or he, he wants to rebel against his parents and what he feels views as the safety of their bubble and wants to get into the shit and starts entrenching himself in kind of radical politics and radical art and wanting to feel dangerous and wanting to tell himself that he's not just comfortably sitting in an ivory tower power, but it is ultimately an act as an effect. It's him just wanting to rebel against whatever is imposed upon him. Even if what is imposed upon him is like immense privilege and security and safety. And it, it builds to him inviting this radical kind of fear troupe over to his parents house mostly to kind of just say you to his parents and then immediately is hit with like, actually is this more chaos than I want? And I think it's really interesting as like basically the first extended narrative thing Peter Weir ever made on film. Because it feels like it is him very much trying to excoriate the. The exact person he doesn't want to be.

[David Sims]

Sure. Right. You know, sort of cultural tourist.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right. And the guy who gets out when things get a little too messy, who likes to believe that he could get down and dirty and, and really give everything to the cause.

[David Sims]

What does he do in this? He doesn't do much.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. That's the difference is that he's really

[David Sims]

the first act of the movie, like just kind of circling around like he's really not doing anything right.

[Griffin Newman]

That movie feels right. It feels much more barbed. And this the way it is, I think getting at a somewhat similar thing is much less critical of the character and more critical of the societal systems. And then as you're saying, the moving part of it for me is Billy Kwan basically understanding that everything boils down to people. That these issues that can feel so humongous and impossible to manage or ever affect change ultimately are swung by two people having a conversation. Right. And can you get the right two people in the right place? Can you get them to align on the same things? Yes.

[Tracy Letts]

And so much of the movie's philosophy is contained in that first conversation that Billy and Guy have. As Guy is just arriving and Billy's talking to him about, you know, he talks to him about Tolstoy and you know, what would you do you help the one person in front of you. How do you help? What then must we do? Which is all pulled straight from the book, by the way. Koch's book. I mean, the dialogue is pulled straight out of the book. And it's really the argument that. Or the conversation, I should say, that sits at the center of the film and that we keep coming back to. I mean, like I say, guy only makes one ethical decision in the movie and it's arguably the wrong one.

[Griffin Newman]

So.

[David Sims]

Okay. The plot of this movie though is.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, we're still back to the plot.

[David Sims]

No, no, it's fine. We don't have to be. But I'm just trying to think like how. How it progresses.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, much like Mel Gibson wanting to show people that he is not just an action star and that he can do drama, this is a guy who wants to be boots on the ground, an important photojournalist, you know, video journalist, film journalist, I guess, doing something meaningful. But also he wants to stake his claim as important. He both wants to feel like he is fighting for the right issues and also that he is seen as someone who can tackle issues of weight.

[David Sims]

He's. He arrives. He knows nothing. His predecessor has left him nothing. Right. Like, so he's kind of like a true babe in the woods. So he meets all the guys. Michael Murphy. Love to see that guy.

[Tracy Letts]

Always love to see incredible face.

[David Sims]

Yeah. What's he. I mean, he. He's an Altman guy to me. Like, yeah, like he's a big Altman

[Griffin Newman]

guy, but he did great things, everything.

[Tracy Letts]

And he's a terrific. This is only, what, two or three years removed from unmarried. Well, and where he was also a son of a bitch. Oh, and Manhattan a couple of years after Manhattan, where he's also a son of a bitch. He's gonna play bland waspish son of a bitch.

[Griffin Newman]

It is rare to have someone who was that good and that handsome. Yeah. Basically fully embraced the idea of being a character actor.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Cast strategically to represent the most annoying kind of person.

[David Sims]

You know, what I've never seen is Shocker Craven movie that he's the lead of. And I've always wondered what that is.

[Griffin Newman]

He's the human lead being haunted by the shocker. Right.

[David Sims]

I believe that is correct.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Is what Mitch Polegi is the original shocker.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's the man who sends him to the electric chair and then the man in the electric chair I haven't seen shot. Yeah.

[David Sims]

But even like that sort of weird 80s craven where he wasn't sure what.

[Griffin Newman]

He's great as the ineffectual mayor and Batman Returns. He's great. And away from her. Like, he's, he's. I just think he Is always good, always fantastic. And this is such a perfect use of him.

[David Sims]

He became a big narrator. He narrates like any pbs. That's Michael Murphy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Tracy Letts]

Anyway, still alive, by the way.

[Griffin Newman]

Still alive.

[David Sims]

How old is Michael Murphy?

[Griffin Newman]

Michael Murphy's 87. Seven years.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He's about to turn 88.

[Tracy Letts]

And I think he's the only Amer. Well, I was about to say he's the only American. Except Linda Hunt, of course, is American.

[David Sims]

Right. But he's the only American character.

[Tracy Letts]

Sigourney Weaver's American. He's the only American character. That's what I mean.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. He is the. He is the token ugly American. And it's another scene that I think is really.

[David Sims]

Sigourney's at the. She's a British diplomat.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[David Sims]

But she's an American actress. Yeah, the.

[Griffin Newman]

The scene around the table where Michael Murphy is trying to sell Mel Gibson on the sexual tourism of the Philippines where you're like, you know, okay, but, like, cut the. You're not here because you actually care on any humanitarian level. This is a cushy job because they treat you like royalty.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And the laws are looser.

[David Sims]

Your money goes far. You're right. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And then who's the other actor?

[David Sims]

His name's Noel Ferrier. He's an Australian actor who is, you might be unsurprised to learn, had a big, like, sort of comedy career. Contemporary. Barry Humphries, who's a big Australian, you know, who's. Dame Edna is. There. Is Barry Humphries. He died. Okay. Died very recently.

[Ben Hosley]

Do we get a sense of, like, what publications, what countries?

[David Sims]

These would be, like, wire journalists, I would assume.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[David Sims]

Like, my dad was a wire journalist.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

He worked for upi. He lived in Vienna. He lived in Beirut, he lived in Rome.

[Tracy Letts]

Hated the Australians.

[David Sims]

No, my dad hated Welsh people. And that is too strong to say that he hated the them. It's more that my dad, I would detect in him. Disdain for the Welsh. Where I was like, you grew up so fucking poor in London. Like, what is. You know, what do you have on the Welsh? Nothing. Like, you know, it's like you're just as, like, much of a yokel as them, except you grew up in, like, South London or whatever. But, like. And like. But he. And he just kind of had these, like. Yeah, but they're just so silly. You know what I mean? And I would be like, this is

[Griffin Newman]

because we do what.

[David Sims]

The Brits conquered them a thousand years ago.

[Griffin Newman]

This is also Taylor's old time. You're. You're all stuck under the same boot. And you point to the other person and go, I think they're the fucking problem.

[David Sims]

So funny about it. And it wasn't like he was the only one. It's a common thing in Britain that people are like, ha. The Welsh, like. And it's just. I'm like, they're like, a hundred miles that way. How different are you? It's like. But no, he didn't. My dad didn't have an Australian thing. Other British people do. I mean, don't you. I mean, like, have you been to. You know, it's like they. The Brits. The way they are is. Especially with Australians. But, you know, any, like, you know, Canada, New. You know, know America, but they're just like, you know, those guys are kind of Britain Junior, you know, we kind of invented this whole thing.

[Griffin Newman]

They're running circles around the British labels in terms of physical media these days. Australians are stepping up.

[David Sims]

I mean, what is a good. Is there a good British, like, Eureka.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Indicator is UK and Radiance is uk.

[Tracy Letts]

Radiance is uk.

[David Sims]

Yeah, but, like, the old Tartan label and all that, right? Like, they're gone, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, but you got. You got imprints and Umbrella and Via vision.

[Ben Hosley]

But I'm just pointing to the time we gotta. Let's keep going with the plot.

[Griffin Newman]

The scene. The scene of them sort of like trying to suss out in Mel Gibson what is your sexual deviancy? As if the only reason you would take this job is to be able to take advantage, right? And it's like, Michael Murphy is basically. I wasn't even gonna say coded. He is like. Like, this is a man with, like, pedophilic inclinations who is, like, primarily driven by underage girls. Yes. And the other guy is, like, deeply closeted. Right?

[David Sims]

And because when Billy's laying it all out at the end, that's what he's. Right? He's poking at all of those sort of unspoken things.

[Griffin Newman]

And in that first scene, I think, where you're introduced to those guys around the table and they're poking Billy as like, what's your thing? Who are you? What's your deal? And he stands very firm of, like, that is not my relationship with her. You know, they're like, so you're fucking her on the side, Right? Why would you talk to her otherwise? And he has this, like, you don't understand kind of thing where it just feels like Billy is a character who is completely grounded in the value of seeing people and seeing the worth of people and the relationship of people to each other in a non transactional way. Way.

[David Sims]

It's why it's so interesting to me to learn that the book character is less pleasant. But I guess because, like, to me, it's like, Right. They invest the morality in the movie

[Griffin Newman]

in Billy because this character is very strategic, but not in a devious way.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I'd be like, fine, manipulate me. Oh. Oh, no. You made me fall in love with Sporty Weaver.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, this sucks.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, that would. Oh, don't you hate when that happens?

[David Sims]

Oh, no. What do I do?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So Billy nudges Guy towards Jill. Right. And I feel like Bill nudges Jill towards Guy as well. Right. Like, there's all this sort of subtle manipulation going on.

[Tracy Letts]

And.

[Griffin Newman]

And also lets Guy know that he can give him access to the president in exchange for agreeing to make Billy his exclusive cameraman. That is framed originally as just, you do all that for me. And it's like, look, I just want steady work. Which, of course, is not.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't think it's the president. I think it's the leader of the Communist Party.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sor. Correct.

[Ben Hosley]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes, yes. But who does later, historically, did become the first president. So am I wrong about this? No.

[David Sims]

Sukarno is the president of Indonesia at the time.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Sukarno is eventually related, but so what happens is there's a communist, you know, not revolution exactly, but, like, there's communist fighting. Tracy, I'm looking at you because you know everything about this. I assume you know more about this than I do. But there's communist fighting.

[Griffin Newman]

Sukarno was military. Yes.

[David Sims]

The military, led by Suharto, uses that as an excuse to. To completely wipe out the communists and all opposition.

[Tracy Letts]

That's right.

[David Sims]

And then eventually kick out Sardo. Suharto becomes the president of Indonesia for 35 years or whatever. Until death.

[Tracy Letts]

No, not.

[David Sims]

Not until death. Right there in the 90s, it's like the economy gets bad, and it's finally his time to go. I listened to this podcast called Revolutions by Mike Duncan. I highly recommend it to everyone. It's well known where he goes through every single revolution that's ever happened. It's just him talking. It just tells you. I'm on Mexico right now. And it's just always so interesting how it's always the same fucking mistakes. The guys just stay a little too long, and it's like, hey, you're getting old. Do you want to pick a successor? And he's like, well, if I pick a successor, then you'll try to get rid of me. You know, it's like they become. You started the relationship by cheating on someone, then you're like, I think you're gonna cheat on me. Like the whole. Right. They, yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

And Sukarno was kind of laying the groundwork for the, the communist uprising that was eventually put down. He, One of the ways he did this was with a speech in W.E. in which he spoke about living dangerously. Correct. That's where the title comes from. Which is never referenced in the film. It's referenced in the book. Right straight off the bat.

[David Sims]

But Vivere Peri Colosso.

[Tracy Letts]

Well said.

[David Sims]

And like, he, he called, he, he gave the speech during like an anniversary of their independence. And it was about a year before the coup. But was he like, did he want this coup to happen the way it happened? Like, no.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[David Sims]

Like, like the 30. This is the thing that's all sort

[Tracy Letts]

of started to get in the weeds here. And it's like, I, I, I'm, I'm lost. I'm lost again. Seeing it in 1983, I couldn't have found Indonesia on a map.

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Tracy Letts]

Right there. So that didn't matter.

[David Sims]

Like it didn't matter. Film effect. But what just what spoke to you about the film then? I guess, apart from just their kind of rock.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, again, the, the stranger in a strange land aspect of it. The, the, the quality of the performances. The love story that you talk about. The. I mean, I mean, the scene where he goes into the embassy party and then she comes and she gets in the car with him and we start to play. The Evangeliste song is just the hottest scene. Really, unbelievably hottest.

[David Sims]

They're really like peak handsome, the two of, you know, like Gibson and Weaver.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, they're not only physically attractive, but they're such good actors and they play, they play that, that desire so effectively.

[Griffin Newman]

They don't speak that much to each other.

[David Sims]

But then there's also the sort of loaded mystery of like, you know, is there, is there a secret layer to this relationship? Are you gaming me?

[Tracy Letts]

A little bit.

[David Sims]

Is that. Which just kind of makes it harder.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

And, and the, the filmmaking. I mean, I suppose with Picnic at Hanging Rock, he had established that he was a great filmmaker.

[David Sims]

Sure, you.

[Tracy Letts]

But, you know, I just watched the Stuntman last night and bemoaning, who's the director? Richard Rush.

[David Sims]

Why did this guy never make another great film? Yeah, that's one of my dad.

[Tracy Letts]

So it's like, what is going to be. How are we going to know that Peter Weir is really that guy. And I think year of living dangerously, it's very apparent that he is that guy. That scene where. Where the British journalist says, I've taken a bungalow, and then we cut from there to the guys having a kind of rickshaw or tuk tuk.

[David Sims]

He takes about five minutes to say, I've taken a bungalow. He does a lot of purple preamble too, but.

[Tracy Letts]

Yes, and then the music choices and the tuk tuk race that takes us into the bungalow. And then the whole bungalow sequence in which we hear very little of the dialogue being spoken. But so much of the sexual tension between Sigourney Weaver and Mel Gibson is playing out through the dance, the Jerry Lee Lewis music. All of that, just the way all of that is put together is really

[Griffin Newman]

masterful filmmaking, I think, in a really unshowy way. He has such an incredible command of like the music of cinema in. In the sense of the magic you can get when you just have every element of this art form working in tandem them. And you're not doing anything really gimmicky or flashy. But it is just the camera and the editing and the performances and the language and the literal music, the blocking, the framing, the art direction, everything. You know, he, he. It's like subtle magic trick shit. You know, it just feels like he's always doing like close up magic. That is very skillful and making these things just flow so organically and be so. His movies are weirdly seductive even when they are not sexually charged.

[David Sims]

But he'd never made a sexually charged movie up until now.

[Griffin Newman]

This is his horniest movie.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I would argue Picnic at Hanging Rock is very sexually charged. But that's true with the threat of sexual violence.

[David Sims]

Exactly. And it's mysterious and like. I mean, it's just at the time especially. Imagine if you had. Had you seen other weird movies when this came out? Probably not. Right. Like, imagine being like, okay, what did the guy who made Picnic and Hanging Rock in the Last Wave and Gallipoli make next? I guess this has a little bit of a handshake with Gallipoli. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And the Mel especially. But this idea of now we're gonna start digging in. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And like, let's tell a site like Gallipoli and this both tell like human stories of like intimate relationships in a grand setting. Like, you know, where there's a big thing playing out in the background.

[Tracy Letts]

And I just find it ultimately just really transporting when the movie starts. I'm in a different era. There's even something about the way the credits look, the way the credit sequence

[Griffin Newman]

over the shadow puppets.

[Tracy Letts]

Yes. It feels of another time, very effectively transporting me to a different time and place. And I love that.

[Griffin Newman]

Our friend Bobby Finger, past and future guest. I was looking at all the letterbox logs for this movie. He used the term meandering as a positive, which I'm like, that is a good way of putting.

[David Sims]

I also.

[Griffin Newman]

The weird movies very much on their own time zone. Sure, they're working at their own pace and they lull you into what they're

[David Sims]

doing, but it's the mood it should have because it's like that until it's not. And then when everything's going down, it makes the cl. Like the. The shock of that so much stronger. And then the death of Billy so much more like, you know, unbearable.

[Griffin Newman]

It is also the thing I'm almost most allergic to in historical films or films about important political issues is characters who are so aware of the importance of what they are doing in every line, in every gesture. And filmmaking that is just focused on communicating that to you. The stakes of the importance in a way that is not representative of what it feels to live to be a person. Even when you were in the most extreme circumstances imaginable, you are not burdened with the weight of importance of what you're doing and how it's going to be studied.

[Tracy Letts]

I think that's right. Yeah, I think that's. I think you're right about that. I think, you know, if. If Woodward and Bernstein were sitting around in all the President's Men saying, you know, this is the future of.

[David Sims]

Right. You know, fate of democracy rests on our shoulders.

[Tracy Letts]

You know, but instead they're saying, I got to go and talk. Talk to that lady and see if I can get her on the right. You know, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

What's most well judged about that movie is the amount of time that's them just being like, huh, she didn't pick up. You know.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That you're not just seeing the important things and that they don't immediately have the full picture.

[David Sims]

The first time I saw that movie when I was a teenager or whatever, and it ends with them publishing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I was like, wait a second. This isn't the Watergate movie about, like, where they get Nixon and, like, the last half of it is, like, Congress and, you know, testimonies and, like, oh, they erased the tapes. And, like, it's like, none of that's in the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's literally just a movie about getting that story.

[David Sims]

Such a good movie rules.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's pretty cool.

[Griffin Newman]

Good. 4K. You got that 4K.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That's. I mean, talk about a good image.

[David Sims]

Is Pakula up or down? Is he like.

[Tracy Letts]

What do you mean back in?

[David Sims]

Because, like, I feel like for a

[Griffin Newman]

while, David, we bounced him off of March Madness. He was in the potential bucket for the losers bracket this week.

[David Sims]

He's a great.

[Tracy Letts]

I don't know. I don't know what. Yeah, I've heard you reference this. I don't know what this is.

[Griffin Newman]

Every March, we do 32 directors, a

[David Sims]

daily vote, a bracket, like a.

[Tracy Letts]

You know who's voting?

[Griffin Newman]

Our listeners. And we let them dictate one piece of programming a year.

[Tracy Letts]

But where do they go to vote?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, Twitter, which I don't know if you've heard is doing really well right now. It's a normal place to have civil discussions. And now we do it on our own website.

[David Sims]

On your. Oh, do it on our website. You can go vote. Would you. I'll vote for you right now. Wes Anderson or Preston Sturgis?

[Griffin Newman]

Preston Sturgis, my man.

[David Sims]

The correct answer.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

No offense to Wes, who is no offensive guy. Wes would vote for Preston.

[David Sims]

He would vote in a second.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. But you. You had said you were like, is Pula too many films? Is he a little down?

[David Sims]

No, it's a very great, interesting filmography. I mean, the latter half of his career is a little less. Less sexy, but it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's what's interesting to us when we try to cultivate and curate who's going to be on the bracket each year is do.

[Tracy Letts]

But you guys already know you. You've got this thing planned out for the next five years.

[David Sims]

Crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Somewhat about a year and a half. But one director gets by the fans.

[David Sims]

One director.

[Griffin Newman]

Whoever wins this March Madness thing will just go on the.

[Tracy Letts]

For a whole series. The fans pick a whole series.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct.

[Tracy Letts]

Who's the last director?

[Griffin Newman]

They picked the last director.

[David Sims]

The Cohen brothers. Pour us.

[Griffin Newman]

Us. Right. So it was like they usually pick someone five months, but it was a good five months.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And right now. Yeah, it's. It's Scorsese.

[David Sims]

Scorsese. Milos Foreman.

[Tracy Letts]

You haven't done Scorsese. No, no.

[David Sims]

Because it's a very hefty ask. So that's a little bit of us being like to the fans, like, are you cool with essentially sort of a half a year on this guy?

[Tracy Letts]

All right.

[David Sims]

Which is like, it's fine. I mean, it's Martin Scorsese.

[Griffin Newman]

Weir's like the size that is perfect for us. If you got like, how About Charles

[David Sims]

Lawton, I mean, well, you know, he's pretty easy.

[Griffin Newman]

That's knocking out sometimes. If there's like a guest being floated who might be tough in terms of scheduling, we'll throw out. Is there a one film filmography you want to cover? Because we know we could just slot that in anywhere. And so long we've always kind of kept on the table as like, is anyone ever going to try to claim that?

[David Sims]

Pretty good movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Pretty. Pretty excellent movie. But no. But, yeah.

[David Sims]

You worked with one of. Well, you've worked with multiple blank check. You've worked with Katherine Bigelow.

[Tracy Letts]

I have.

[David Sims]

Who we've covered on. I'm trying to think of, like, who else?

[Tracy Letts]

All over. All over my movie. What?

[Griffin Newman]

You.

[Tracy Letts]

You were a little more positive than the other people.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I made a joke about you being terrified that you had a physical meeting.

[David Sims]

I like that you shouted out Lindor.

[Griffin Newman]

That was going to get bombed. Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Who's the other Marie?

[David Sims]

Is that Mar, our social media?

[Tracy Letts]

She's on my shit list.

[David Sims]

Mar is going to be thrilled to hear this. We covered the post way back when.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Tracy Letts]

Hold on. I'm not done talking about it.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's get into it. Let's get into it. Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

So Marie, she says at one point, she said, well, I missed this vital part of the movie because I had just happened to look away from the screen for a minute. It's like, happened to look away. Who happens to look? You don't know how to watch a movie because I know what that means. It means she's looking at her fucking phone, which means she doesn't know how to watch a movie. And she's totally on my shit list.

[David Sims]

She's on. Right. Marie, you're in trouble. You have to earn Tracy's respect back. Trust.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm looking here like Adam McKay Salons. Sure. I'm like, these are people where. They're like major directors, but we haven't done them, and I don't know if we would.

[Tracy Letts]

All right.

[David Sims]

But we. We did. We covered the Post.

[Tracy Letts]

Were you kind of the Post. I haven't seen it.

[David Sims]

I love that film. We were very. We were very, very high on it in the moment because it was a new release, so we were very excited by it. I have not revisited that film, but I like that film.

[Tracy Letts]

We really don't have to do my filmography.

[David Sims]

No, I'm just.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just trying to see if there are other directors we've covered. But those are the two, I think.

[Tracy Letts]

Catherine and Stephen.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And then we. We covered Ghostbusters afterlife. Of course, you're the main character in that.

[Tracy Letts]

That was a favor. I don't mind saying that. I mean, I would say that if Jason were here, you were right. The truth is that Mike Judge was supposed to play that part.

[David Sims]

Oh, really funny.

[Tracy Letts]

He was supposed to play the part. And for some reason, the last minute there was a scheduling problem and. Jason, Jason. We're in Calgary where Carrie's shooting the movie.

[David Sims]

You were already there?

[Tracy Letts]

I was there with my wife and kids while she was working on the movie. And Jason's like, wow, if only we could think of somebody from Oklahoma who could do a scene. So that's how I wound up in that. But you've not done Jason on the.

[David Sims]

No, we did on our Patreon. We watched the Ghostbusters.

[Griffin Newman]

So you got to work with Muncher. Muncher's the ghost. And Ghostbusters are.

[David Sims]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

A blue guy here again.

[Ben Hosley]

Just being mindful of timing.

[David Sims]

Yeah, we should wrap up soon, try

[Ben Hosley]

and maybe just hit a couple more major points in the plot. Griffin, you were referencing, like Mel's character being aware of living through a major

[David Sims]

event,

[Griffin Newman]

not being burdened with that self importance that he is kind of. Not solipsistically, but he is primarily just going, okay, let me figure out the lay of the land. What is like, who are the pieces on the board and how do I take the right side? But he's not thinking about the impact he has. He's just trying to build a good career. Starting from that point where I'm trying

[Ben Hosley]

to steer us is that Jill passes him info and that the Chinese Communists are about to arm the pki, which is the local Communist Party.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

And he, he makes the decision that we've been saying throughout, you know, the ethical decision that's really not the right one.

[David Sims]

Fun.

[Tracy Letts]

Ben, we haven't heard what you think about Year of Living Dangerously.

[Ben Hosley]

I had never seen it before and I really, really loved it. It really resonated with me. I have such romanticism for this kind of life of like a journalist living abroad, living hard, smoking cigs, drinking, hanging out at bars.

[Griffin Newman]

You've lived dangerously most years of your life.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, I would say I have a past and I, you know, still think about those times fondly and glad I made it out. But yeah, this, this movie was just such a joy to watch.

[Tracy Letts]

Great, I'm glad to hear that because I'm. I feel like, you know, obviously this is. My presence here on your show is endorsement of the Year of Living danger.

[David Sims]

I mean, you could Always come on to discuss a film you don't think works. Like, it's fun to talk about. About movies that don't work or that are, you know, outright failures like that. That can be kind of fun too.

[Ben Hosley]

Can I share it? Also, it made me feel like I was able to live in a Tom Weights song.

[Tracy Letts]

Nice.

[Griffin Newman]

That is well put.

[David Sims]

This is just like. That's the thing with a Tom Weight song. Like, this is just not my climate. I just, you know, it's.

[Griffin Newman]

Song is not your climate or.

[David Sims]

Well, because Tom Weights is, you know, the sort of the bayou. And this is kind of like the, you know, the same thing. It's too. The air is just too wet for me. Like, I would just be struggling. Yeah. I can't be in. In this sort of jungle.

[Griffin Newman]

This is a damp movie.

[David Sims]

Yes. I love the beach. I love the water. Yeah, like that. That's sort of. I. I know I would just. I would suffer very hard.

[Tracy Letts]

They let the actors sweat, right?

[David Sims]

They do. It's part of the sexiness. It's part of the like and like. Yeah. So the, the decision read. It's basically Jill's like, hey, this shit's about to go down. You got to get out. And he's like, aren't I a journalist? Like. Like.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

He does the one kind of journalistic thing he's like, I'm gonna, you know, publish this news.

[Ben Hosley]

But it's selfish because he's like, this is my big story. Right. It's part of his motivation.

[David Sims]

You're right. That it's a little bit of him being a hot dogging right. Kind of guy. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

[Griffin Newman]

But everyone else is like, manipulating him towards positive ends. You know, they are. They are sort of driving him as a vehicle in the right direction because I think they all identify. I was. I was thinking a little bit of this movie in relation to Broadcast News, which is obviously so much about completely excoriating the. The William Hurt character. But there's. There's certain commonalities between these two of just like, oh my God, here's just a guy with the right shoulders and the right eyes and the right voice and the steady hand. He is so dangerous. If he does not have a moral compass installed in him or the wrong people get a hold of him because immediately is this understanding of whatever this guy communicates to the public is going to be heard. You know, he is like a human printing machine for the legend, Right? Yes. Right.

[David Sims]

I just love too.

[Ben Hosley]

He's a radio drumist. Like, I Love hearing him. Him deliver the news.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

That it's not just that he's writing the pieces.

[Griffin Newman]

That seems so good too, when he's doing the broadcast and he can't stop sweating. Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

The character Kumar we haven't really talked about, but sort of a vital character in the last act of the film. His driver.

[Tracy Letts]

His. The fact that he is pki, which is revealed late in the film.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

Is so obvious.

[David Sims]

When you.

[Tracy Letts]

Everyone movie second. It was like, oh, how many times does Peter. We show him sort of looking. Giving side eye to. To the other woman who works in the office or. I mean, clearly he's. It's like everybody knows it but Mel Gibson.

[David Sims]

But that's what I love about this is like. Like you kind of buy that Gibson is just. He's not dumb, but he's just too innocent to really understand. Like, the die has sort of been cast. Well, that's also like. I've arrived at a situation that is already wrapping up and I. I'm just like, here to have fun and learn things.

[Griffin Newman]

The other thing that reminded me of broadcast news, where you're just sort of like, there. There is this cultural reckoning with. Has the media become something that is now out of our control? You know, it has gained too much power. We have given it to a medium we don't quite understand, where the values can be completely thrown out of whack based on things like watchability, you know, and the right answer to that is yes, yes, yes. And that, you know, there's this attitude of William Hurt's more aware that he's part of the problem, but he's sort of like, if not me, then who? Someone else is going to do it. Right.

[Tracy Letts]

And he's right.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm not the one who created this situation.

[Tracy Letts]

You know, with some years, you can look at it and go, oh, actually, if it's not William Hurt, it's going to be another William Hurt. Totally.

[Griffin Newman]

And the other part of it is, for better or worse, this guy projects intelligence. Whether or not he has intelligence is irrelevant. Whether or not he understands the situation is irrelevant. It is that no one will listen to Billy Kwan and people will listen to Sigourney Weaver even less, despite being a megababe movie star because she is a female diplomat.

[Tracy Letts]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And this guy is going to be able to. Yeah, he's a megaphone. He's gonna be heard.

[David Sims]

He's the best kind of character. Smart enough to know that what he wants isn't gonna happen, but still like a little Bit of an I can't dodge the true believer thing. I'm like, but what if you fed your people or what if you helped, you know, in the way I know you want to or you could or what, you know. And it's such,

[Tracy Letts]

again, the third man, Holly Martin, right, Holly Martens, goes through the same crisis over the course of the film. Not understanding the situation he's in, having the situation explained to him. Still doesn't get it. Has to see the situation played out in front of him to sort of start to grasp just what the stakes are.

[Griffin Newman]

It is what I also find fascinating about the possible queer reading of this movie and the Billy Kwan character. Character is there is a notion of. Is Billy Kwan someone who was born biologically female, who has adapted the Persona of a male, whether through like a genuine expression of gender identity or strategic means to an end, to be taken seriously and to be able to power these things? I think there is like a queerness that Linda Hunt plays. And in this interview I read where she made this super Persona comment. She said that was a deliberate, thoughtful thing in her mind that she was not like, clearly, I am playing this role like a cross dresser. But I think it's part of what's fascinating about this performance is it doesn't just feel like. Well, this is like a stylistic kind of flourish that you just. Suspension of disbelief by this performance. There is a even, I think, in how every scene is played. The other characters kind of eyeballing Billy and going, what's going on here?

[David Sims]

What's the. Yeah, what is the.

[Tracy Letts]

The deal?

[Griffin Newman]

And part of that is that Billy holds his cards close to his chest. But part of that also is like, so what. So is that's the haircut. What's. You know, like, everything's a little. No one has really looked or sounded

[David Sims]

like this death of Billy very sad and like. And just like, that's really, of course, like, like. I mean, do you buy that? I. I don't really think that Guy's in danger as much as Guy is in real danger after that and gets through the blockades and gets to the airport. But you are like, right, but the, you know, the loss already happened. I mean, guess. I guess guy's eye gets up well,

[Tracy Letts]

and he has to navigate it without any help from Billy. Right? It's not just Billy's death, but that

[David Sims]

he doesn't have gu.

[Griffin Newman]

And what he has to navigate is how. How do I get the. Out of Dodge, right? Like.

[David Sims]

And then I hit over my head. There is like, it's not like, I'm going to expose this. I'm going to.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

Oh, I just watched the government murder a journalist, like. And say he's like, where's the airport?

[Griffin Newman]

But it's.

[David Sims]

It's so.

[Ben Hosley]

It's so silly that he goes to the palace. And the way he conducts himself.

[David Sims]

Right, Right.

[Ben Hosley]

It's like, clearly he's. He's not thinking in his right mind because he's upset. But also, he doesn't have Billy to guide him anymore.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right. That's not going to work.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, he's also got the presumption of a white guy.

[David Sims]

They wouldn't dare kill me. Right, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And there's something so kind of like, undignified about Billy's death. Right. And even the way it is shown on screen that we get the moment of the breaking through the door and Billy's reaction, and then we're mostly seeing just. Just the body lying on the ground. Afterwards, once guy comes to the scene

[Ben Hosley]

and Guy later says when they're cleaning up Billy's stuff, that Sakarno didn't even see the banner.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Tragic.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's. It's not some epic sacrifice moment.

[Ben Hosley]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

You know. Yeah, very.

[Tracy Letts]

It's not a. Not effective. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Dumb. Pointless. But you understand that the. You know, the motivation, the sort of like. Yeah. The desire to just do something.

[Ben Hosley]

And Billy's so distraught because he's been giving money to that family and that young boy gets sick and passes away. And I think that just, like, really pushes them over the edge.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Yes. And. And it's like. It's the. It's the dehumanization.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It is the. The. These are not chess pieces. These are human beings.

[David Sims]

We should play the box office game.

[Griffin Newman]

You're going straight from.

[David Sims]

I think so. I mean, is there anything else we want to say about the film? I'm just. I'm trying to bring the plane in here. I don't want it.

[Tracy Letts]

I think we haven't paid enough attention to Maurice Jarrett and.

[David Sims]

Incredible work.

[Tracy Letts]

Vangelis, who. The song is credited in the closing credits, but Vangelis himself is not name checked. So you would almost think that song is written by Maurice. Maurice. And it's not.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah. It's the classic. Like, Peter Weir would just have, like, a collection of tapes. He would play music all the time.

[Griffin Newman]

All the American writing. Rock and roll, pop music is really like. It's just fun to have tutti fruit in this movie.

[David Sims]

He just liked that little. You know, that little song he uses and uses it twice. Obviously, apart from that, it's.

[Tracy Letts]

Maurice uses it twice. Very close together, by the way. It's sort of unorthodox, the way he uses it.

[Ben Hosley]

It also.

[Tracy Letts]

Russell Boyd, his guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I mean, and to be clear about Jure, Jure then goes to Hollywood, does Witness, does Mosquito coast, does Dead Poets, like, becomes.

[Griffin Newman]

This is really the team that he carries over.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Russell Boyd, the legend, like, who is, you know, at picnicking, hanging Rock, like, when they have no money, figuring out all these innovative ways to, like, make the air feel magical, essentially. He's such an incredible deep. He's still alive.

[Tracy Letts]

All the more. Still working.

[David Sims]

I think he hasn't really worked much since we're retired.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Last credit is the way back.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And before that, of course, Ghost Rider.

[David Sims]

He did shoot Nicholas Cage's Ghost Rider.

[Tracy Letts]

Why is this movie not on 4K? Well, I guess we already talked about this. It's almost certainly a rights thing.

[David Sims]

A rights thing. But it is odd that no one's left to figure it out, given.

[Tracy Letts]

Worthy. Sure. It's worthy of restoration.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I agree.

[Tracy Letts]

And it's worthy of conversation. Right. Doesn't it provide an opportunity to revisit this question of casting?

[David Sims]

Sure.

[Tracy Letts]

The question of politics. And it would seem to me that a new release would provide the opportunity to further that discussion, to go hard.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that's why also mgm, or whoever has fucking access to MGM home video now through Amazon maybe Sonally isn't going to just be like, yeah, just like, put that one out with a theatrical trailer. I think there's a worry about just giving it the kind of release that Gallipoli got from Paramount, which is just like, we put it on a disc. Are you happy? Versus. This is a movie that needs to be like, have a thoughtfully curated extras package of dialogue around it and context provided. So I don't want one of the. One of the specialty labels needs to step up.

[David Sims]

Up. Yeah. This film came out. Do you know about the box office game?

[Tracy Letts]

I've heard you guys play the box office game. I intentionally did not do any investigation because I want to play legit, an honest player.

[David Sims]

So this film came out Limited. Released January 21, 1983.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Tracy Letts]

I graduated high school.

[Griffin Newman]

Congratulations.

[David Sims]

Thank you.

[Tracy Letts]

So that's as far as my education went. But nevertheless.

[David Sims]

Where'd you go to high school?

[Tracy Letts]

Durant High School in Durant, Oklahoma.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell, yeah.

[David Sims]

So it is. Obviously, it's limited release, so it's not in the top five number one. It's a lot of holdovers, I would say, from, you know, the 82 season, number one is a big Oscar winning movie of 1982, a comedy classic.

[Griffin Newman]

But it wasn't the big. Well, it's Tootsie.

[David Sims]

It's Tootsie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's Tootsie. Because Tootsie was a December release.

[David Sims]

Tootsie came out in December. Yeah, December 82nd.

[Tracy Letts]

Massive box office. Unbelievable box office.

[Griffin Newman]

And in my past of. Of trying to memorize box office charts and such, it does just feel like the first four to six months of 1983 are ruled by Tootsie.

[David Sims]

Until ET I assume you saw Tootsie at the time.

[Tracy Letts]

I did.

[Griffin Newman]

Or no, it came out before in

[Tracy Letts]

a packed movie theater.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Did you enjoy Tootsie?

[Tracy Letts]

I love it.

[David Sims]

Do you. Have you thought about Tootsie lately?

[Tracy Letts]

I.

[David Sims]

Now I feel like I'm like a psychiatrist and it's Tootsie in the room with us.

[Tracy Letts]

We did a 1982 movie draft on the big picture and I selected Tootsie.

[David Sims]

I listened to it. Yes. A film I've only seen once.

[Griffin Newman]

Really?

[David Sims]

Maybe twice.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But I enjoyed. But I have not seen in years.

[Tracy Letts]

Which.

[David Sims]

What?

[Tracy Letts]

Tootsie.

[David Sims]

Tootsie.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh. Worthy of revisit. Criterion. Criterion Edition. Very good.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Number one to see number one.

[Griffin Newman]

What's he up to?

[David Sims]

Well, it's only been out for a few weeks, but it has made. Damn. It's made $81 million.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it at the time was one of the ten highest grossing films in American history.

[David Sims]

All right. Yeah. So number two is an action film that had come out earlier in December.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Gigantic breakout hit for one of its stars.

[Griffin Newman]

For one of its stars.

[David Sims]

I mean, the other guy is.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a two hander.

[David Sims]

It's a two hander. The other guy's a little bit more of a. I guess it's sort of a breakout for both of them, but for. Especially for the supporting, for the sort of.

[Griffin Newman]

So one guy was already more established, but the less established guy really kind of popped on this one becomes the

[David Sims]

most famous actor of the 80s action comedy. Yes, very much.

[Griffin Newman]

It's.

[Tracy Letts]

It's 48 Hours.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, well, yes.

[David Sims]

Walter Hill's 48 Hours.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Like Nolte at that point. Like, he's not nobody.

[Tracy Letts]

No, he's a big deal.

[Griffin Newman]

But. But you know, he's an established.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And Eddie Murphy is 21 years old,

[David Sims]

but a child essentially.

[Griffin Newman]

He's so fucking.

[David Sims]

So those are. I mean, like, obviously those are like sort of.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's like basically, do you want to go see, you know, this kind of comedy or that Kind of like they're. They're just kings of the box office. Number three is. I mean, and now I'm thinking about the 1982 draft that you did. Certainly one of my favorites of 82. Probably not my number one favorite, but one of your favorite directors, you know, certainly was nominated for many Oscars. Big drama.

[Tracy Letts]

It's a big Gandhi.

[David Sims]

Not Gandhi, but I can tell you that Gandhi is number four.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it a Lumet?

[David Sims]

It is a Cindy Lumet movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a Sydney.

[Tracy Letts]

The Verdict.

[Griffin Newman]

Hell, yes. So I think I got that in the legal draft on Big Picture. If we're just all reminding people of our past draft.

[David Sims]

I got the verdict. I got the verdict.

[Griffin Newman]

You got the verdict?

[David Sims]

Absolutely. That was my, like, number one, I think. So I can try to look it up. But the Verdict is the best.

[Tracy Letts]

I got the verdict in the 82 draft.

[David Sims]

Why do I feel like I'm going to look it up?

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, because I took 12 Angry Men.

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like I had a first. You guys did a legal draft.

[David Sims]

He did a lawyer movie draft. I got. This is lawyer movie. So it was drama, comedy, thriller, Oscar winner, movie lawyer that you would want to represent to you.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, nice.

[David Sims]

And then John Grisham was its own category. And I got the verdict. Intolerable Cruelty, the Devil's Advocate, Chicago, the Firm, and Atticus Finch. Not bad. You got Bridge of Spies, Legally Blonde, Michael Clayton, Philadelphia, the Rainmaker and Grisham. And then you picked Stanley Tucci in Spotlight as your lawyer.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, nice.

[Griffin Newman]

That's what I knew that I had. First round pick. And I was like, what would I have gone for over the Verdict? And the answer was, I knew it was going to be a feeding frenzy for me. Michael Clayton.

[David Sims]

You got Michael Clayton.

[Griffin Newman]

I had to get Michael Clayton.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

So, okay.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

The Verdict. So number four is Gandhi. What's your take on, of course, the best picture winner. It will or it's about to be the best picture winner. Gandhi.

[Tracy Letts]

What about it?

[David Sims]

You big fan?

[Tracy Letts]

No, it's kind.

[David Sims]

I feel like you guys all kind of shat on Gandhi.

[Tracy Letts]

We didn't. They shat on it more than I do. It was important in the moment. And Kingsley was undeniable.

[David Sims]

Kingsley's uncle. Unbelievable in it. I think Gandhi is, you know, it's not one of the great movies of 82, but it gets a slightly bad rap. It's very watchable.

[Griffin Newman]

I still think.

[Tracy Letts]

Good.

[Griffin Newman]

Never seen it. Yeah, I have it in that big Columbia Classics box set. And I'm just like, when Am I in the mood to just throw on three hours of Gandhi?

[Tracy Letts]

Let me tell you. Well, Kingsley really elevates. I mean, there really is a way on board with that movie. But also so to see a hundred thousand extras.

[David Sims]

That's why it's just honest, unimaginable.

[Tracy Letts]

You'll never see it again.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Sims]

It's. It's all right. I mean, you know, it's not. Not incredible. It's got all the flaws you'd think it has. Number five is a real Griffin movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a real Griffin movie. Is it an 82 holdover? An 83.

[David Sims]

It's an 82 holdover. A fantasy film.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a fantasy film. It's like one of my favorites. Or is it just my type of film thing? I'm sure you love it is the Dark Crystal. Yeah, I like it.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, My son's favorite movie. Wow.

[David Sims]

There you go.

[Tracy Letts]

Most watched movie in our house.

[David Sims]

Scary Crystal. Spooky. Scary.

[Tracy Letts]

He loves it.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I tell you the movie I almost bought as one of the three? And I actually just could not physically locate a copy in time. But if you have not watched it with your son yet, I highly recommend. Have you guys done ParaNorman?

[Tracy Letts]

He got scared by. Is it called Coraline? Yes, he got scared by Coraline.

[Griffin Newman]

Interesting.

[David Sims]

Yeah. Coraline's scary.

[Tracy Letts]

And so we haven't gone into. He likes box trolls.

[Griffin Newman]

And I noticed you had done James the Giant Peach as well.

[David Sims]

Scary.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Box trolls is the guy who eats the cheese and his face Ben Kingsley. Yeah, that's right. He's good, but it's very freaky.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes. ParaNorman is about fear.

[David Sims]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It is like Reckoning with fear. And I think it is one of the better dramatizations of fear mongering I have ever seen.

[Tracy Letts]

We have it on the shelf, I think, the Steel Box.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Okay. So if I had gotten it for you, I would have struck out on that one. Okay. I chose right.

[David Sims]

I'll tell you the rest of the top 10. Number six is the toy, the Richard Donner film with Prior and Gleon.

[Tracy Letts]

That is remake of a French.

[David Sims]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

Perfect politics. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Oh, does that have perfect politics? I haven't seen it.

[Griffin Newman]

Jackie Gleon buys a black man and hands him to his son and says, have fun.

[David Sims]

Another Oscar. So that's a December 82 release. That didn't really translate. Another o fer win.

[Griffin Newman]

Pretty big hit, though not at the same scale of Tootsie and 48 hours.

[David Sims]

47 million. That was pretty Good. Sophie's Choice.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Sims]

Which is, you know, is Okay. I don't know. I don't know what you feel about Sophie's Choice.

[Tracy Letts]

Haven't seen it Since.

[David Sims]

Since like 82.

[Tracy Letts]

Well, I've seen it since then. I. It was on cable a lot.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

I recall it being pretty Good.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Peter McNichols, fantastic in that thing.

[David Sims]

Actor.

[Griffin Newman]

It's. His career is fascinating when you zoom out.

[David Sims]

Right. How just when you discover him later in life and you're like, okay, so who's. What's this? How this guy gets started, you know, like, Sophie's Choice is not what you would expect. Number. Sorry. Number eight is Best Friends.

[Tracy Letts]

The Burt Reynolds Goldie Han.

[David Sims]

Goldy Han.

[Tracy Letts]

Valerie Curtain screenplay, I believe. Yeah.

[David Sims]

Valer Curtain. Wrote it with Barry Levinson and it's based on their friendship.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right.

[David Sims]

So is it a sort of like. They're like. It's a bittersweet. It's a.

[Tracy Letts]

It's a. When Harry Met Sally.

[David Sims]

Right, right, right. Directed by Norman Jewison. I've never seen.

[Griffin Newman]

No, me neither.

[Tracy Letts]

It's not great.

[David Sims]

Sure. Fair enough. Number nine is E.T.

[Griffin Newman]

big one, big movie.

[David Sims]

And then number 10 is the man from Snowy River.

[Tracy Letts]

What is this Australian film really directed by George Miller. Miller. Not that George.

[David Sims]

George T. Miller.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Wow. Who also directed the Never Ending Story 2.

[Tracy Letts]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Australian Western Griffin was offered Crocodile Dundee and had to turn it down.

[Tracy Letts]

I can't believe it cracked the top.

[Griffin Newman]

Top.

[David Sims]

Well, it's. It's opening at number 10, so not amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

But yeah, but yeah, Douglas, it's what we were saying. The. The Australian. Kind of like Australian fever is cryptocurrency.

[David Sims]

Douglas in dual roles as brothers Harrison and Spur.

[Tracy Letts]

Man from Snowy river is good. I give that a thumbs up and it got a.

[David Sims]

It even got a sequel. Man from Snowy River 2.

[Griffin Newman]

What's the. What's the physical. Physical media report. A man from Snowy River. What are we looking at?

[Tracy Letts]

I don't think I own it.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Tracy Letts]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's see.

[David Sims]

So you have to sort of dutifully like, log like, because the. See, the database thing, what's it clz or whatever it's called? It's like, my problem is I'm always like, did I put this in? You know, like, where you do this little barcode scanning?

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

But every day, I assume another pallet arrives, you're opening them up.

[Tracy Letts]

It's my. It's my full time job. It's my job.

[David Sims]

Like, has an Amazon driver or anyone like that ever said to you like, you are DVDs, buddy.

[Griffin Newman]

I gotta say, I live in a doorman.

[Tracy Letts]

Driver has never said that. My wife says it too. No, sure.

[Griffin Newman]

I live in a doorman building. Humblebread drag. It does feel like every time I pick up a package, they're like, got a lot of stuff shipped to you. How many do you have?

[David Sims]

How many discs?

[Griffin Newman]

I think I'm probably around a thousand, but I. I'm not dutifully logging.

[David Sims]

I should. How do you store them? Like, do you have shelves? I mean, I, you know, I don't. I don't really know.

[Griffin Newman]

I have shelves that I have outgrown. There are now pillars of vertically stacked discs like the books in Ghostbusters.

[David Sims]

This is my problem is I have

[Griffin Newman]

too many discs and storage a very

[David Sims]

well arranged, like, shelving situation. But it's full.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And so now the new stuff arrives and I'm like, well, I'll figure this out.

[Griffin Newman]

That is exactly what I. Where I'm at. I now just have like a shelving unit that is full and then a corner where discs live and I'm in between. I'm waiting on the new shelving unit.

[David Sims]

I'm watching this Bud Buter Westerns right now that criterion is that what has.

[Griffin Newman]

That we did and all the renowned Western.

[David Sims]

Renowned Westerns, right? Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Carrie and I did every one of them. We did like one a week for five weeks.

[David Sims]

How are they?

[Tracy Letts]

They're fantastic. Every one of them.

[David Sims]

I'm great. I'm really liking the sort of, like, I just have to watch my desks because then it's sort of like the choice is out of my hands. Like, I'm not gonna agonize over.

[Tracy Letts]

This is why Carrie wants me. This is why I pick the movie every night.

[David Sims]

Right? Right. Like, I don't want to choose. I don't want to scroll.

[Tracy Letts]

Like, I don't want to think. She's like, I. The shelves intimidate me. The streaming tiles, I can't make heads or tails of it. You pick, you put it on. No bitching. Obviously, she's got veto power. I think that we've been together. She's vetoed two movies.

[David Sims]

What are the two vetoes, or is it a secret?

[Tracy Letts]

One of them was a movie with Cate Blanchett and Judy.

[David Sims]

Notes on a Scandal.

[Tracy Letts]

Notes on a Scandal. I hadn't seen it. I put it on and Carrie said, I've seen this and I remember it.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, okay. So it was just.

[Tracy Letts]

That was one veto. Parliament. Don't remember. Something else.

[David Sims]

Notes on a Scandal is a Parliament Hill classic.

[Griffin Newman]

A Parliament Hill Classic.

[David Sims]

There's a lot of scenes set up.

[Griffin Newman]

The neighborhood.

[Tracy Letts]

You're saying, okay, but no, she doesn't veto.

[Griffin Newman]

She.

[Tracy Letts]

She watched. And she doesn't blame me when the movie is bad.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Does she ever tap out?

[Tracy Letts]

She never taps out.

[Griffin Newman]

She never taps out.

[Tracy Letts]

Sometimes it's hard to keep her awake because she gets up early, but that's napping. There's a lot of, like, me making her sit up and I scratch her back while we. While we finish.

[David Sims]

But your kids do a good bedtime. This is. This is the biggest thing in my life.

[Tracy Letts]

My kids are pretty good with the bedtime.

[David Sims]

Good for them.

[Tracy Letts]

And now occasionally, I'll put on a movie that I've seen that I like, and she watches it and she's like, what the.

[David Sims]

Sure. Right.

[Tracy Letts]

The brood. Still, this is a conversation in our house. Still. She's like, that movie rocks.

[David Sims]

But, I mean, it is certainly. You got to be in the right mood for it. And it's. It's such a poisonously angry movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Which I love.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And I know it's his, like, divorce movie and it's. That movie rocks. But. Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

I want to make sure I said everything I have to say I wanted to. About Marie.

[Griffin Newman]

Noted. So wear it as a badge of honor.

[Tracy Letts]

I. I wanted to say. Oh, the big picture. Right. You know, questionable whether or not I'm big picture or blank check.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, can we get ahead? Can we get a cartoon likeness of you to wear on that desk and tell people they're sitting at Tracy's desk? We're allowing you to sit at Tracy's desk today.

[David Sims]

Right. We're not possessive like Sean. This is a very free and open environment. Sean's a little bit more with the chairs and the. The committees and the, you know, loosey goosey.

[Griffin Newman]

But also, I do airdropped a contract over to you if you want to look it over. There's potentially a five year first look deal on the table. Not exclusive, but first look.

[Tracy Letts]

I was surprised that you guys had guests come back. I didn't realize that till I listened to somebody recently and you're like, oh, they came back.

[David Sims]

So I want to.

[Tracy Letts]

I want to look at your. I want to look at your lists. I want to see.

[Griffin Newman]

We will. Dictated by March Madness. Tracy, the next.

[David Sims]

We'd love to have you on any time. I don't know if you know this, but you're. You're quite an estimable person. So we don't want to just, like, bug you all the time, but we'd love to have you Back.

[Tracy Letts]

I, I, I don't feel like that. But that's, that's all well and good, right? The last thing I want to say is that you're living dangerously. So I showed it to Carrie years ago again. Oh, I didn't know the other things we wanted to talk. Did we want to cover Star wars or did we want to cover, cover Godfather?

[Griffin Newman]

Say what you're gonna say and then Star Wars.

[David Sims]

Okay, two minutes on Star Wars.

[Tracy Letts]

So Carrie doesn't remember the movies I showed her year of living dangerously a few years ago. She had no recollection of it. The nanny and I were watching it

[Griffin Newman]

a couple of nights ago in former sag After President. Yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

And Carrie walked in halfway through the movie. She'd been working in town and she walked in and halfway through the movie and she's like, I remember none of this. I have no recollection of any, any of this. But she watched Mel Gibson for a few minutes and she said, my God, he's so in his body. To watch the way he moves on camera is just like, it really is

[David Sims]

what he could do.

[Tracy Letts]

There's a scene where he's going out to the airport at the very end of the movie and he does a jog out to this sort of high stepping jog he does on the way out to the airport. And it is, is a marvel to see. It's too bad what happened to that guy. He was one of our, one of our great, great movie stars.

[David Sims]

And I think even before he went publicly insane, he lost some thread of like the kinds of movies he should be making. You know, he got too into the sort of Hollywood gigantic paycheck.

[Griffin Newman]

But then also his revenge thrillers started getting weirder and darker in a way

[David Sims]

that he's an incredibly magnetic screen presence. I mean, especially in the 80s.

[Griffin Newman]

That is a very good quote from her and I often, almost always the infrequent times that I now work as an actor, I think I used to do a lot more. Now I'm a professional podcaster who sometimes acts. I think about a quote.

[Tracy Letts]

That's how I define myself.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll tell you, the first time you did Big Picture after Hitmaker had set it up, right. And we were watching all that happen. We have a text thread called News and Deals that Alex Ross Perry is in as well as the great filmmaker David Lapper. We were all sharing Blu Ray announcements and deals and we saw it happening. Right. Hitmaker saying you should maybe have Tracy on. Do you know Tracy? Yes, I can connect it this and that. And we Go. Sean, you've recorded Chase today. How was it? And he said, if that guy ever decided to start a movie podcast, we'd all be cooked.

[David Sims]

Bumped right down the chart.

[Griffin Newman]

We're done.

[Tracy Letts]

That's very sweet.

[Griffin Newman]

It is our saving grace that he is so in demand in other areas, he is so, so esteemed in so many other fields that he never will commit to a permanent desk, which is why you can be third chair, fourth desk, whatever. But I remember some interview that Carrie gave where she talked about being a full body actor. How she feels like she can always rely on her theatrical training to in on camera work, which is often so bizarre and nonsensical and can leave you in a position where things are changing so fast and you have so little bearing of where you are in the story that you can look kind of nonspecific in a scene that she relies on her instincts in using her full body and everything. And anytime I'm like acting professionally again, I go like, am I, am I doing full body after shit or am I just thinking about my head? You know?

[Tracy Letts]

Very nice.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, very nice. Well, she's also means a lot coming from her.

[Tracy Letts]

She's also a former athlete and I, Mel clearly has some athletics. It's a big part of it as well, right?

[Griffin Newman]

It's a big part of, of it, yeah. And I think, I mean, you're talking about like, you know, the shame of how fully this man unraveled. But it is an interesting thing where like great actors are often people who have a really great dialogue ongoing with their own psychology and their own body and ability to take control of these things and own them and use them in a very deliberate way. But very often great movie stars are people who have seen some weird kind of unresolved thing within them. There is some inherent tension that makes them more unwatchable, makes them more watchable, even if it makes them less functional as a human being. And sometimes it is in a destructive way, sometimes it's in a self destructive way, sometimes it's just oddness. You know, you meet certain movie stars and you're like, how do you tie your shoes? But I, on screen, I will buy anything you are selling. It is a fascinating thing. And we were talking with Marie, now officially on the shit list recently, who was saying that she had just rewatched Apollo 13. And she was like, how the fuck did Braveheart beat Apollo 13 for Best Picture? And we were like, you cannot overstate how powerful Mel Gibson was at that moment in time.

[Tracy Letts]

It's really true.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

He was Star Wars.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. So you threw out one of the worst movie takes I've ever heard of all time.

[David Sims]

Oh, that you don't like the trench run. Right, that you said. I forgot.

[Griffin Newman]

Said we all agree that the ending of Star wars sucks.

[David Sims]

Give me your peel.

[Tracy Letts]

What I said was that the ending of Star wars is the most boring climax to a great movie. That's what I said.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but you said it like we're all on the same page.

[David Sims]

Yeah, and you're saying it to boys there. I mean, boy and girl, but into two. You know, like where I'm like, I watched the trench Run. I would watch the Trench Run over. I would revive my vhs. The DVHS degrade it.

[Griffin Newman]

Has the Trench Run tattooed on his body like he's the Prison Break character.

[David Sims]

And the thing about the Trench Run, to me is, like, I love the climaxes of the other Star wars movies where he had more money and he went more epic, but it's actually kind of small in this beautiful, dramatically.

[Griffin Newman]

It's, like, perfect and even, like, I think these moments that are constantly ripped off from that sequence but exploded and overstated, even down to just the return of Han Solo at the moment you think he's gotten Oscar support is, I just think so gracefully and sort of succinctly done without making too much of a meal out of.

[Tracy Letts]

All right, Let me tell you, millennial boys a thing.

[Griffin Newman]

We're young ass whippersnappers.

[Tracy Letts]

I'm an old millennial. You know, 40. You millennials are so monolithic in their movie opinions. Let me tell you, first of all, we never called it the fucking Trench Run. I don't know whoever came up with the Trench Run Run. The end of Star Wars. And by the way, the movie was called Star Always call it that.

[David Sims]

I am with you in this house. I will not be Star Wars.

[Griffin Newman]

New Hope doesn't exist.

[David Sims]

That really sounds like he had five minutes where he was. They were like, hey, by the way, are you gonna put, like, a title on the other one? He's like, yeah, New Hope. It's also a New Hope, right?

[Griffin Newman]

So funny for him to land on that title after he's promised he would make prequels someday, but hadn't figured out what the prequels were. And he was like, the one safe bet is this is probably a reset point because call it a New Hope,

[Tracy Letts]

because Star wars isn't a good title. Star wars isn't working.

[David Sims]

It's so crazy how good a title Star Wars.

[Tracy Letts]

So a New Hope, which is like. Sounds like a Faith Hill album.

[David Sims]

Isn't it crazy that Star Trek was a title before Star Wars?

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah. Right.

[David Sims]

You know, like Star Trek sounds more esoteric.

[Tracy Letts]

And what is that?

[David Sims]

Why'd you pick that? No one had done Star Wars.

[Tracy Letts]

The. The actual trench run itself.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

First of all, you know it's stolen from a movie called the Dam Buster.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

He would cut in footage of it. Right. Dam Buster's damn good movie.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah, very good movie. D. But we've not.

[David Sims]

Why.

[Tracy Letts]

Why is Luke piloting one of these? Goddamn.

[David Sims]

Because he used to want shoot one in his T14.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't know.

[Tracy Letts]

Do you really think that he has the know how to get into this machine, drive into this crevasse?

[David Sims]

It is really funny that you imagine like this is a ragtag rebel group and they're like we've scraped together like 10 of these ships.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

And he shows up and they're like, you're like 6 foot 2.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

You want to get in this thing?

[Griffin Newman]

First of all, he's like 5 foot 10. Secondly, they got like. Like 20, like lifer pilots and all of them fucking flame out. And Luke is the last.

[David Sims]

Well, he's the Jedi new chosen one. Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course.

[Tracy Letts]

But why are we supposed to care about Victor Buono who suddenly shows up late in the movie in the ship? It's just like, where did he come from? Who's. He's. And I'm one of the guys. One of the big picture guys tells me that character has a name.

[Griffin Newman]

Hawkins. We're talking about Port.

[David Sims]

The actor is actually William Williams. He does have a. Really rude of you Victor Buono, but I saw William Hootkins play. I've told Griffin this. I'm sure maybe there's a play called Hitchcock Blonde and he played Hitchcock on the West End stage.

[Tracy Letts]

He was with Rosamund Pike.

[David Sims]

Rosamund pike, that's right. And David Haig and I can't remember.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not still with us. Right. Hookins passed.

[David Sims]

He must be pretty old if he

[Griffin Newman]

is still with us. He also. He's in Raiders Lost Ark. He's the guy.

[Tracy Letts]

Do you assume that there was a scene between Porkins and the mechanic who put Porkins in the thing and the mechanic's name was Beans. Do you suppose there was a scene between Porkins and Beans?

[Griffin Newman]

There better have been, Tracy and you are getting at why Star wars has the cultural stranglehold? It does because it opens up these questions, but like conversations, we start thinking about beans. You could write 10 beans novels.

[David Sims]

My dad introduces me to Star wars, obviously, as A sort of a. Right, right. You know, I watch it, like, and then I'm obsessed with the trench run. And. Yeah. I only know it's like, yeah, there's the guy who gets shot immediately, you know, to prove that there will be deaths, like, where these guys are going to blow up. Yeah, I'm all right. Boom. Right? That's point. And then you, like, start to read books about Star. Or, like, you get. And you're like, the guy's name is Porkins. Like, they. They couldn't spend five minutes, like, figuring out a better name for this guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, this guy's got a squid head. What's his name? I don't know. He's a Mon Calamari.

[Tracy Letts]

Why is Darth Vader in a ship? Why have we.

[Griffin Newman]

He's in a little TIE fighter. What are you talking about?

[Tracy Letts]

Have we been led to believe that Darth. Darth Vader is good at flying on these ships?

[David Sims]

So now, what you're doing here is very interesting because it's sort of what we did when we started the show, which is like, if you examine Star wars without the further context. Because, like, of course, when you watch the prequels, it's like, oh, he was a crackpot.

[Griffin Newman]

Everything's backfilled, next plan.

[David Sims]

But, like, you're right that the whole thing with Darth Vader in general in Star wars, where it's like, there's a fascist empire. It is mostly run by British white men who are older and are kind of like, we should kill all of these.

[Griffin Newman]

Them.

[David Sims]

Who is this sadist robot who walks around among them with a cape. Everyone else is a fascist Nazi guy.

[Griffin Newman]

It's what's fascinating about Peter Cushing. Darth Vader getting retroacted, where they're like, what should we do with this villain in cinema? Where you're like, he was meant to be, like, the weird, gimmicky Bond henchman.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

There's some big guy who's got an odd energy who is like.

[David Sims]

Like, I just wish someone would be like, where are you on the org chart?

[Griffin Newman]

Ready?

[David Sims]

I'm a major. What are you. What are you getting?

[Griffin Newman]

Darth. Right.

[David Sims]

There's an emperor, then there's some.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, I understand all these things.

[David Sims]

Who are you? And so then it kind of makes sense that he's like, I'll get in my ship. Like, there's some ships. Like, let's go.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Why is he getting a ship? Because it's like, that's the guy James Bond has to punch at the end. Because it's not Satisfying to watch him punch Dr. No. Dr. No is like an intellectual.

[David Sims]

He is.

[Griffin Newman]

He's not going to punch Dr. No.

[David Sims]

Had a lot of good ideas out there on I stand.

[Tracy Letts]

I stand by that take.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[Tracy Letts]

I've rewatched Star wars, the original trilogy with my son. He's liked them. He's watched them two, three times.

[David Sims]

But he's not. He is not venturing gripped by them.

[Tracy Letts]

But he may be a little young for it. I mean, I saw them all in the movie theaters when they first came out. Age, right? Yeah, right.

[David Sims]

For sure. Well, the other thing with us 8

[Griffin Newman]

is when I saw them, I think

[David Sims]

I saw the re release. You know, I've seen them already, but I was there for the re releases in 97.

[Griffin Newman]

Those are my.

[David Sims]

And I was 11 and that was perfect.

[Griffin Newman]

It was everything.

[Tracy Letts]

I couldn't believe how bad Phantom Menace was. I couldn't believe it.

[David Sims]

It's Phantom Menace is tough because.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah, I had always been told it was bad

[David Sims]

because, well, it's. It's bubbling with some interesting ideas and some bad ideas.

[Griffin Newman]

This podcast only exists because of our obsession with that film and how we are constantly wrestling, how we would keep

[David Sims]

attacking it, being like, like, are we going to like it this time?

[Griffin Newman]

Is this good or not as much as what is going on here. And I, I contended is the best of those three. So when it started, people were like, well, maybe he'll like, he's a little rusty. He'll regain his footing.

[David Sims]

I contend it's the best of the three.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the best of the three.

[David Sims]

Now I think the pod race sequence is wonderful, which again, he's ripping off Ben Hur.

[Griffin Newman]

But like, it feels similar to the Trench run where he's taking a. A classical visual language of an epic cinema of past and applying it to. To future films.

[David Sims]

The thing that's happened with the prequels lately, you know, the prequels come out. They were hits, obviously, but they are derided, reviled. Yes. And now that the Disney legacy sequels have come out and had their own life cycle, now the fans are like, well, the prequels are interesting because they are interesting. They're weird. George Lucas is outsider art, Right.

[Griffin Newman]

They are made by a lunatic who can fund his own films.

[David Sims]

Right. And so George Lucas was like, I want to sort of write about the fall of the Roman Empire, Right? Like, I want to write about this sort of decline.

[Griffin Newman]

How do fish just.

[David Sims]

But I also think there should be Jamaican fish Alien, because kids watch it. You know what I mean? And like, in the original movies, you can See Lucas being tempered and that there's a lot of interest, you know, a lot of mature people around him as well. And, and the prequels, he's unfettered. So he's like, we'll have Jar Jar Binks. And no one at any point is like, this fucking sucks. Like, we cannot do this.

[Tracy Letts]

That's part of the problem. When you become as big as George 100, nobody can tell you now everyone

[David Sims]

reveres Lucas and revere him too, because there's nothing like him. And God bless this thing. You know, he, he did lots of interesting things. But like I remember reading interviews with Mark Hamill at the time, like in the 90s where he's like, he's the fucking pope. You getting lunch with him is a day long production. He. You can't have a conversation with him anymore. Like where it's just like a regular like, hey, why are. You know, like. And like that's what. And so they're interesting objects in that way because like when. How often does that happen in Hollywood?

[Griffin Newman]

Never. Never. Literally never.

[David Sims]

So that's interesting. But are they like a good movie?

[Griffin Newman]

No, but you, you know, fascinating test.

[David Sims]

It sounds like your son watches a lot of goofy Kaiju movies which rock. But like they're silly too, right? Like, it's like the right balance of silliness is something that's going to be hard to find.

[Tracy Letts]

Right? Is the. Like I said, the question is, is there a creature? And especially are the creatures fighting?

[Griffin Newman]

I. Not to. Not to spoil you. I did additionally get two Kaiju action figures for your children.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh my God. Oh my God. See, you think the big picture ever did this?

[David Sims]

There you go. See, this is. We treat our guests right, especially after we make them do a three hour plus episode. This has been far too.

[Griffin Newman]

That. That's a funky color Hadora. But then this is I think a really skeleton Godzilla after he is atomized from the end of the 54 movie at the bottom. That's. Isn't that cool?

[Tracy Letts]

He has a. A bigger hadora, but he'll love you can't have it. He just had a Gamera themed 8th birthday party and got so many Gamera

[David Sims]

like the other kids from second grade walking into this being like, has he

[Griffin Newman]

converted other people like. Or is his friends into gamer?

[Tracy Letts]

Not at all.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Tracy Letts]

Right.

[David Sims]

They're all into like K pop demon

[Tracy Letts]

hunters or whatever, which he's never seen, doesn't know anything about. He goes over to a friend's house and they watch. He has no idea what.

[David Sims]

But. But he's not coming Home being like, I must now watch F k pop team 100 because everyone's talking about it. Right? Well, that's great. I mean, it's great. I mean, I'm. I'm right at the start of this with my kids, like, you know, the sort of, like the larger osmosis. And you walk.

[Tracy Letts]

I have to say, I didn't do a lot of conditioning to get him Kaiju.

[David Sims]

Right. This isn't a thing where. This isn't like when parents are like, my kid's favorite band is the Clash. And you're like, okay, you know, I

[Tracy Letts]

had the Criterion box of the Godzilla, which has a big sort of comic book.

[David Sims]

I know. I have it myself. Of course. Yes.

[Tracy Letts]

He became interested in those visuals before he could even read. Read and page through that. And he went through that over and over. He memorized all the. I taught him the titles. He memorized all the titles. And then I said, well, if you like this so much, maybe we should watch one of the movies. And I put on one of the movies. That's it.

[Griffin Newman]

Immediately.

[Tracy Letts]

That's it.

[David Sims]

Because they are weird.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Like, they're weird to watch. They're not like movies.

[Griffin Newman]

Now, like, your daughter, you haven't shown them?

[David Sims]

No, my daughter is quite fearful as she loves movies. I mean, and she loves Bowser, who is something of a Kaiju.

[Griffin Newman]

I got her the big Godzilla toy, which she also trance between being scared.

[David Sims]

Well, now. Now, the Godzilla toy is just a favorite friend in our house. Griffin got her a Godzilla that's, like, large.

[Tracy Letts]

How old again?

[Griffin Newman]

My daughter, 54.

[David Sims]

But he got her this a couple years ago. And initially, yeah, sometimes the Godzilla had to be, like, put away.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah, right.

[David Sims]

It was a little.

[Griffin Newman]

And then Ben had to act like Godzilla was eating his finger. And that killed.

[David Sims]

That bit was kill.

[Griffin Newman]

It played like deaf comedy to come over again.

[David Sims]

She's been asking, hey, hey, wow, Anytime. But, but, but, yeah, but she. She hasn't seen Godzilla yet.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I got. I got one.

[David Sims]

She doesn't like when Ursula gets big in the Little Mermaid. Like that, like, freaks her out.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

And so that's also Kaiju adjacent. So I've been like, maybe, but I also think large.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't start with 54. Start with the movies where Godzilla is the good monster and he fights the bad monsters.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Tracy Letts]

I think maybe the first movie he watched was Destroy All Monsters.

[Griffin Newman]

That I would say is the best starting point. Because then you also have the Minia in that one.

[David Sims]

Right?

[Tracy Letts]

The. The. The witch.

[Griffin Newman]

And I was gonna say the little. Little baby Godzilla.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, yeah. Manila.

[Griffin Newman]

Manila, yes.

[David Sims]

Oh, I know that one. That one's cute.

[Griffin Newman]

He's cute. He's a good entry.

[David Sims]

I'm not even that deep on Godzilla. I like Mothra. Mothra's cool.

[Ben Hosley]

All right, so I want to shout out. We have. I looked up our Indonesian listenership the last 12 months. Got about like 1500 downloads.

[David Sims]

Really?

[Griffin Newman]

Really.

[Ben Hosley]

So there's some folks out there. So we just want to shout out to our listeners.

[Tracy Letts]

Very nice. Hello, Jakarta, what's up?

[Ben Hosley]

Would love to visit. It just looks like I. I was like looking at Google Maps.

[David Sims]

Quite stunning.

[Griffin Newman]

If you're one of those 1500, let us know what the local comedy theater breakdown is if there's a good opportunity for us to do a live show.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Please do.

[David Sims]

Yes. Tracy, we've taken far too much of your time.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you so much.

[Tracy Letts]

I can't believe this podcast is going to be four hours long. You're going to to have to find some.

[David Sims]

It's not. It'll be 3:15, which unfortunately may not even crack top five.

[Griffin Newman]

It won't crack the 10. I don't think the audience weirdly just

[David Sims]

demands longer and longer. I don't know why.

[Griffin Newman]

You're a king amongst men.

[David Sims]

You are.

[Griffin Newman]

You are the boss.

[Tracy Letts]

You guys are sweet.

[David Sims]

Have anything to plug? Is there. I mean, Bug just ended its run on Broadway.

[Tracy Letts]

Yeah. Not plugging nothing.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben went to see Bug. Did you not?

[Ben Hosley]

I loved it.

[Tracy Letts]

Oh, thanks, man.

[Ben Hosley]

I think it really captures the paranoia of being on drugs.

[Tracy Letts]

Thanks. Bug rocks. No, nothing to plug. As I've said before, this is my job. The. The man. The acting and the playwriting is hobby.

[David Sims]

That's just right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're plugging physical media and the value of owning the films you care about.

[David Sims]

But you guys. Yes. Tracy has spoken very well of like why it's great to own a disc. But you know, our fans already know that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. I would say I will tell you as someone with a. With a. Unfortunately an overwhelming amount of anxiety at most times in my life. I'm constantly trying to find different pieces of media that can function as a balm for me. Things that for whatever reason physiologically just calm me down. Slower the heart rate. Slower the heart rate. Slow down the heart rate. We need to have long form interviews with you have started really doing the trick.

[David Sims]

You got a great voice.

[Tracy Letts]

Very nice.

[Griffin Newman]

You got a great voice. But thank you for being here. We will absolutely force you to come back again. We will hold you to your openness and thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe Tune in next week for Witness with Amanda Dobbins. DOB Mob for life. We. Weir's doing it. He's. He's crossing the ocean. He's coming over to Hollywood.

[David Sims]

Yep. This episode, this series has Dobbins, it has Sean, it has Hitmaker, it's got all the big boys.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tracy Letts]

Thanks, y'.

[David Sims]

All.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you. And as always, and as always, I have to ask, because I almost bought it. Have you seen do you own Slash? Has your son seen the Roland Emmerich Godzilla?

[Tracy Letts]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

And is that a forceful blocking him from that experience?

[Tracy Letts]

No. In fact, when he turned 8, I said to him, you can now watch any Godzilla movie. If Godzilla's in it, you can watch it.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow.

[Tracy Letts]

That had not been the case before he was 8.

[Griffin Newman]

That's like the best version of, like, the birds and the bees talk. You're old enough to start.

[Tracy Letts]

I was like, he was limited for a long time to the Showa era, and then I expanded the Heisei era, but now he can watch any Godzilla movie.

[David Sims]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

If. If he ever watches it, please let us know because I think he will hate it. But I was curious. I didn't want to infect your collection with the disc. I don't think it's a good film, much like Phantom Menace. I've always been fascinated by how broken it is, but I saw it about his age and really struggled with why it didn't make me happy.

[Ben Hosley]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Simon. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our Associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithee, research by JJ Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Mine Clinic. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social blankcheckpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.