Twin Peaks: The Return (Episode 8) with Connor Ratliff

Summary

Summary of "Twin Peaks: The Return (Episode 8)" – Blank Check with Griffin & David

Podcast Information:

• Title: Blank Check with Griffin & David
• Episode: Twin Peaks: The Return (Episode 8) with Connor Ratliff
• Release Date: December 8, 2024
• Hosts: Griffin Newman and David Sims
• Guest: Connor Ratliff
• Produced by: Ben Hosley

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Introduction

In Episode 8 of "Twin Peaks: The Return," hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims welcome comedian and actor Connor Ratliff to dissect one of the most enigmatic and revered episodes of the series. This episode is celebrated for its intricate storytelling, profound symbolism, and the seamless blending of narrative and surreal imagery that David Lynch is renowned for.

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Episode Overview

Episode Title: Got a Light?
Significance: Considered one of the most totemic moments in recent American television, this episode serves as an origin story that intertwines the supernatural elements of Twin Peaks with historical events.

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. The Origin of Evil in Twin Peaks

Connor Ratliff emphasizes that Episode 8 delves deep into the foundational mythos of Twin Peaks, linking the town's pervasive darkness to the detonation of the first atomic bomb. This act is portrayed as the catalyst that tore the veil between the mundane world and the supernatural forces at play.

• Notable Quote:
  • Connor Ratliff (17:12): "I saw a dream where Frank Silva's head flew out of Agent Cooper's stomach as doctors operate on him. It's like something out of Lynch."

2. Visual and Narrative Techniques

The hosts discuss David Lynch's masterful use of minimal dialogue combined with elaborate visual sequences to create a hypnotic and unsettling atmosphere. Episode 8 employs long takes, slow-motion effects, and surreal imagery to evoke a sense of unease and wonder.

• Notable Quote:
  • Griffin Newman (42:42): "Lynch isn’t phoning in this part; he’s using the simplest representational visuals to convey profound meaning."

3. Character Dynamics and Symbolism

The episode introduces complex character interactions, notably between Agent Cooper and Ray Monroe. The tension culminates in Ray shooting Cooper, who mirrors Cooper’s own duality and struggles.

• Notable Quote:
  • David Sims (52:00): "Mr. Cooper's empty gun and Ray’s anticipation showcase the layers of manipulation and duality within the narrative."

4. Supernatural Elements and Mythology

Ben Hosley and Connor Ratliff delve into the introduction of entities like Bob and the Woodsmen, discussing their roles in bridging the supernatural with the human world. The episode portrays these beings as both antagonistic and integral to the town's mystique.

• Notable Quote:
  • Ben Hosley (87:00): "The Woodsmen's appearance is profound—they're ambiguous yet central to the unfolding mythology."

5. Sound and Music Integration

The return of Angelo Badalamenti's influence is noted, with discussions on how music underscores the episode’s mood. The absence of continuous Badalamenti scoring in certain scenes amplifies the surreal and eerie atmosphere Lynch aims to create.

• Notable Quote:
  • Ben Hosley (144:01): "Scoring Twin Peaks: The Return using archival tracks brings a nostalgic yet fresh auditory experience."

6. Cultural Impact and Reception

While the episode drew relatively low live viewership, its cultural significance and critical acclaim position it as a landmark in television history. The hosts explore how Episode 8 challenges conventional storytelling, leaving a lasting impression on its audience.

• Notable Quote:
  • David Sims (76:05): "Despite the ratings, the episode's depth and artistry have cemented its legacy far beyond initial viewership numbers."

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Conclusions

Episode 8 of "Twin Peaks: The Return" stands as a testament to David Lynch's visionary storytelling. Through its intricate blend of narrative depth, symbolic imagery, and atmospheric soundscapes, the episode not only advances the Twin Peaks saga but also elevates it to a profound piece of cinematic art. Hosts Griffin Newman, David Sims, and guest Connor Ratliff commend the episode for its ambitious exploration of good versus evil, the human psyche, and the thin veil separating reality from the supernatural.

• Final Notable Quote:
  • Griffin Newman (152:38): "This episode transcends typical television—it’s a hypnotic journey that demands an open mind and rewards deep contemplation."

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Note: This summary focuses solely on the analytical and discussion segments of the podcast, omitting advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the provided guidelines.

Transcript

[Griffin]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blank Jack with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blake Jack. Hashtag.

[David]

This is the pod and this is the cast. Listen full and descend.

[Griffin]

You want to go even lower?

[David]

Lower in the pitch.

[Griffin]

Yeah. You know the horse. The podcast is the white of the. The pod is the white of the cast.

[David]

I gotta find my Jackson Main. I gotta do my Jackson man. Just want to get another look. Listen the pod. And that Jean suck.

[Griffin]

Sucks. Why are you singing about jeans?

[David]

Just want to get.

[Griffin]

When you should be singing about swimming pool. Sh. Shallow nest six.

[David]

Friendo. Is it more Anton Chigur? Friendo, Friendo.

[Griffin]

Does he have a deep. I guess he has a deep voice. He has. He has a such a quiet voice. Right, Sugar? Where it's like you're leaning in. I'm sorry, Kelly McDonald, you have to die.

[David]

No, we love the Coen brothers.

[Griffin]

It's ambiguous.

[David]

The one sort of impediment to the idea of us ever doing it is that it's a long series. Right?

[Griffin]

Long series and you know, a lot of well discussed films that we basically like.

[David]

But movies. Yeah, I was gonna say movies. We. We overall basically love. Can you imagine how much fun we'd have doing fucking Anton Chigurh bits?

[Griffin]

I think we'd have a lot of fun doing Tommy Lee Jones as well. Like, you know, like no country would be ye. Heavy. Heavy bit.

[David]

It's not like that's the only one.

[Griffin]

No, I think most of them have that kind of thing.

[David]

Jesus, the. The amount of Runway we get off of just Anton Sugar having other types of conversations.

[Griffin]

I mean, the Cohen are like, lynch, I want.

[David]

I want the Baconator Junior.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I got a. I got a bacon king over here.

[David]

No, I want the Junior. The Junior King.

[Griffin]

Can't finish it. It's too big. It's too big.

[David]

You're not going to finish. Oh, David's not doing a bit. David does in fact have a bacon king here.

[Griffin]

Fucking huge.

[David]

Sounds like you're more of a bacon prince.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

You got a little too big for your britches.

[Griffin]

I didn't mean to.

[David]

Hey, by the way, this is an episode about one of the most revered works of art we probably ever covered in the history of the show. Right.

[Griffin]

At least of recent time. Right. Like a sort of totemic moment in recent American art.

[David]

And certainly like an absolutely unique one of one object.

[Griffin]

I think so.

[David]

Yeah. Much like your unfinished bacon king.

[Griffin]

Maybe I'll finish it.

[David]

This is These are huge stakes to set up for this episode.

[Griffin]

We'll see.

[David]

Come on.

[Griffin]

We'll see what I do.

[David]

This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[Griffin]

I'm David.

[David]

It's a podcast about filmographies, ostensibly directors who experience. God, I'm somehow now for massive success early on the careers. Thank you.

[Griffin]

Jeez. You okay?

[David]

Great day. I don't know what's going on. I was like, what is the word I used to describe the success?

[Griffin]

Massive.

[David]

Massive success early on in the cruise. Don't worry. I've only been doing this for 10 years. Given a series of blank checks, make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. Sometimes those checks continue on to television, and then this is like a blank check within a blank check. Is that a fair categorization?

[Griffin]

100%. 100%. Yep.

[David]

Yep.

[Griffin]

This is a somewhat. A standalone blank check within a large blank check project, which is like.

[David]

Yes. There's like seven Inception layers to how you get to this existing.

[Griffin]

Yeah, two or three, but yeah, sure.

[David]

I'm gonna say seven.

[Griffin]

Seven.

[David]

I'm gonna say seven.

[Griffin]

We are here today. We are in the middle of discussing Twin Peaks the Return.

[David]

David Lynch, Twin Pods. Firecast with me has been our series. We have now gotten to his most recent work to date, Twin the Return.

[Griffin]

Season three of Twin Peaks, which we.

[David]

Have split into four episodes. And at David's insistence, episode two is only about one episode in our podcast.

[Griffin]

Yes. Part eight, also known as Got a Light? The iconic eighth episode of Twin the Return. We're here to discuss it today, and.

[David]

That'S what we're doing now. Can I say our guest is being too respectful.

[Griffin]

Way too well. He might be also be, I don't know, doing his taxes on something up.

[David]

Or is he doing the taxes?

[Connor]

I'm doing a little research, but I'm also very much being respectful.

[David]

But you know what? Loosen that tie. Get messy. Stop showing us so much respect. Brendo.

[Connor]

It's a totemic work that we're about to discuss.

[David]

Here's a rare thing that we don't do often. A kind of in series. Double dip.

[Griffin]

Yeah. I don't know. We just wanted to.

[David]

We wanted to. We had a guest for this episode possibly, and then life circumstances came up and it was suddenly like a. We need to get this done. And it was just like, who's the right person to tackle something this big, but also is perhaps around.

[Connor]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And who.

[Griffin]

We just had a lovely time talking Twin Peaks with.

[David]

And it was like, you know what would be nice to just do even more of that.

[Ben]

And it's also, as people who have been behind the paywall, people who have ventured into the Patreon to experience the Twin Peaks Season 2 episode, they've already.

[Connor]

Heard me talk Twin Peaks. But what they will also know from that episode is that when you, when this, when David lynch won, you came to me, said, connor, what do you want to take your pick?

[Ben]

Anything, Anything.

[David]

I give you first round draft pick of the entire career.

[Connor]

I say Twin Peaks season two without hesitation. You say, well, that's actually going to be off the main feed. I said, I don't care, I don't care. I did have a twinge of regret thinking that because this was my second season, this was the other one.

[Griffin]

Oh, well, look at that.

[David]

Well, look at that.

[Connor]

This was the one where I almost like, if I had bailed on that idea wanting to get into the main.

[Ben]

Feed, it would be to talk about this.

[Connor]

Because when I think of season two, the main thing I think of is how the season two finale remains probably the weirdest thing to ever air for any reason in primetime and the weirdest scripted thing to intentionally air on network television.

[David]

I had been primed and hyped to understand that was the case before watching it last night. You know, there's been a lot of build up for me.

[Connor]

I mean, I'm talking about the season two finale. Oh, that was the most. The weirdest thing ever on network up until that point. Up until.

[David]

Yes.

[Connor]

And still probably for network tv. I don't know that there's that much competition for Monday night on ABC for something with. Where it's almost all in the Black Lodge, weird strobe lights, etc.

[David]

The episode of Two and a Half Men where Charlie Sheen dies is up there very.

[Griffin]

There are things like that that are odd because of the. Of what's happening outside of the episode.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Yes. Yeah.

[Connor]

And episode eight, Floater by a train.

[David]

Yes. And at some point Kathy Bates plays his ghost. I can't remember if it's in that episode or a different episode, but that reaches sort of like black lodged levels of like.

[Connor]

Yeah, but episode eight of the Return is sort of David lynch then going like, well, I did one. I already like, I already have this one sort of unprecedented thing that's kind of almost never been topped.

[David]

Right.

[Connor]

What is the premium cable equivalent of that?

[David]

But I'd argue the first seven episodes feel like, holy shit, he's going weirder than he's gone before.

[Griffin]

Right. What's going on here?

[David]

And Then he's like, no, I need to make the thing that is weird in relation to the template of weirdness I have already set. Much like the season two finale, you're saying.

[Connor]

And I'll tell you something that this.

[Ben]

Is what I was looking to try to get information on within the archives.

[Connor]

Of my social media. I believe that in Juneish of 2017, that was when this aired. Right? 2017.

[Griffin]

This episode aired on exactly June 25.

[Ben]

2017, I think at some point. And I can't find the date. Dana Ashbrook did monologues at ucb.

[Griffin]

Oh, cool. My favorite.

[Connor]

While the Return was airing, but before.

[Ben]

Episode eight had aired.

[Connor]

And I brought in one of my Twin Peaks trading cards, my Bobby Briggs, to get it signed.

[David]

Was it a rookie card?

[Connor]

It's a Bobby Briggs rookie card.

[David]

Yeah. First season.

[Connor]

And this is after Bobby killed a guy, but before he became a cop. And, and the. And I remember him in like one of the little like the, the beer storage room that was off of the. And where people like kept their coats.

[Ben]

And bags and stuff.

[Connor]

I remember him signing this and saying. I was like, man, it's really, it's great.

[Ben]

I'm loving watching this.

[Connor]

And he's like, yeah, yeah. I hear the eighth episode is pretty crazy.

[David]

So he hadn't even seen it?

[Griffin]

He had, but he was at least vaguely aware. Like maybe they've been informed, like that's the doozy.

[David]

Or that he's obviously not in it. Yeah, no.

[Connor]

And. But I remember thinking, what a strange thing to say. How could the eighth episode, like I remember thinking like, what is he talking about? Well, like, yes, because I couldn't at that point. I was like, I think I know by this point we're however many episodes in I think I know what Twin Peaks the Return is.

[David]

He's not doing the obvious third season. He's breaking his own template. What could weird me out at this point?

[Connor]

So I was like, what? What's gonna happen? That's so weird. And then episode eight, I believe, aired over the weekend of the Del Close marathon.

[David]

Oh, wild. Okay, so you were probably also sleep deprived.

[Connor]

Yeah. Which is like this three day marathon of where I probably did more than 20 shows in three days.

[David]

We should say our guest today is Connor Rattler.

[Ben]

Hey there.

[Griffin]

Sorry. Yeah, of course.

[David]

I'm glad you apologized, David. It was really rude what you were doing.

[Griffin]

It's so rude of me to not introduce our guest.

[David]

Yeah, here I am. But for those who don't know, the Del Close marathon was a thing that UCB used to do. That was like 72 straight hours of shows basically happening all day, all night, all morning, all.

[Connor]

All sorts of venues all over the.

[David]

City, across several venues. Right. Mostly around Chelsea, but especially at the, the old UCB theater. Not the original, but the, the, the Chelsea one. You would have these shows that happen at like 5:30 in the morning that were 15 minutes long, that were chaos. And someone like you, who is, I have often maintained, perhaps the greatest improviser in the world. I certainly think at that point you were sort of the greatest improviser in New York City. At the very least, you're getting asked to jump in on most of these things. But then Twin Peaks is like this seismic important thing for you. You probably could not wait to watch the episode. You weren't going to be like, let me get a good night's sleep before I try episode eight.

[Ben]

No, I, I, and also I. Because I learned from previous years that one of my indulgences is that I would get a hotel room in Manhattan.

[Connor]

Sort of near the venues, so that.

[Ben]

I would, so I'd have a place to go crash at weird times of the day and not have to take.

[Connor]

A train all the way back to Queens.

[David]

Sure. If I know anything about you as well. There's nothing in the world you hate more than any form of commute. I would say that's your kryptonite.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And yet you live in Queens. You should live at like whatever. Yeah. Like 34th and Madison or so. You should just be like, I'm right. Dead center, baby.

[Ben]

Yeah. I need to do substantially better.

[Griffin]

I know, I know. It's not like you can't just like, pick a place around there. I don't know, just. You should just make that your entire priority.

[David]

But I also think it is part of your core essence that if we, if you somehow were able to book a show two blocks from where you live, let's even say one block away from your apartment.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[David]

Your response would be, but that's the worst block. You don't know how tough it is to walk that.

[Griffin]

What subway are you on not to reveal your location?

[Ben]

I don't want to dox myself.

[Griffin]

Okay, all right, all right.

[Unnamed Guest]

That's smart.

[Griffin]

Do you have more than one subway to. I guess, is my question.

[Ben]

Oh, I'm, I'm near a hub. You never guess where I am.

[David]

David's like, waking up at this line of questioning, I noticed the influx of energy of David suddenly being able to talk train lines.

[Griffin]

People are always like, you know, looking for places in New York City. Right? I have. You know, there's always someone who I say this.

[David]

People are always looking for places and.

[Griffin]

I'm always like, oh, let me help, let me help. And I do like looking at like real estate listings, but what I really like doing is thinking about. Right. The web of transit you will access from wherever you're looking.

[Ben]

Can I ask for some key bleeps on what I'm about to say?

[David]

Oh, of course. Amazing.

[Ben]

Okay. All right.

[Griffin]

And then we'll talk about Twin Peaks episode eight, which is.

[David]

We're talking about. We're going to talk about.

[Ben]

I live in Queens.

[Griffin]

Yes. Great.

[Ben]

It's right near the Long Island Railroad, so that's a hack. I might as well live in Manhattan if I'm dealing with the law.

[Griffin]

Now you're near the LIRR stuff. So not, not a ton of trains, but enough.

[Ben]

Enough trains.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[Ben]

A lot of trains going in every hour.

[Griffin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

And, and it's less intense. Like when it, when, when ascat was at UCB Chelsea. I could leave my apartment at 6:45 and be in the green room at 7:01.

[Griffin]

I mean that is impressive. I mean but it's. You gotta. Do you do you just kind of sneak on like. Or.

[Ben]

Well, that's the other thing. You buy a bleep. This.

[Griffin]

You buy a double bleep.

[Ben]

You buy it.

[David]

This is illegal. You're admitting to crimes.

[Ben]

You buy a punch card ticket.

[Griffin]

Uh huh. And then maybe they don't punch it because it's barely.

[Ben]

Here's the thing, you almost always get caught. Unless it's super crowded going from Penn Station. They almost always catch you then. But it's worth it. You know, it's. It's a cheap taxi ride. You know what I mean? Like you would never get a taxi to get you from there to there in 10 minutes.

[David]

This is fascinating because I've never heard you talk with such joy about any commute.

[Connor]

Well, because this is a good, this is a good part of the.

[David]

You had, you had it right one time.

[Connor]

Penn Station, the staff on the train, the conductors, they are having to play.

[Ben]

A heavy duty, high intensity game of concentration going up and down the train trying to figure out who.

[Griffin]

Who's new already.

[Connor]

Who's new, who's new.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And they don't always get me. You put your. Also you put your earbuds in.

[Connor]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Like you're asleep. Is it worth their while? Is it worth their while?

[David]

So you're not. No sir. David, go on.

[Griffin]

But you're not probably that far from the. And we can BLEEP this.

[Connor]

Not too far.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Ben]

So there's options. But I'll say this. Getting to the blank check studio is.

[David]

Hell.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Yeah. We are. Not. Best convenient for you.

[David]

I apologize.

[Connor]

No. But that's how much I want to be here to talk episode eight, which.

[Griffin]

We'Re going to talk about.

[David]

So you watch it. Do you watch it in this hotel room? You book?

[Connor]

I watch. I remember watching it in the hotel room.

[Griffin]

Can you name the hotel?

[Connor]

Yeah, it was the Four Points Chelsea.

[David]

Okay.

[Connor]

So it's one of those hotels that they've crammed a lot of little rooms in.

[Ben]

It's not huge, but the bed's a nice size. And I watched it late at night on a laptop.

[David]

I'm guessing a showtime anytime kind of thing.

[Connor]

I think I probably watched it on an iPad mini.

[David]

Wow.

[Connor]

Okay.

[David]

But on the app, we're saying you were not watching this. Yeah.

[Connor]

This is also wired headphones. This isn't the day where you could plug your headphones right into the iPad.

[David]

I'm glad we're setting the scene. So this is. You're watching it the night of, but you're not watching it live.

[Connor]

Not watching it live. I'm watching it in, like, probably after 2 in the morning.

[David]

Wild.

[Connor]

And I'm tired.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And.

[David]

And you got the Dana Ashbrook thing in the back of your head, which.

[Connor]

I was skeptical about.

[Ben]

You know, I.

[Connor]

When he said it to me, I'm like, this actor doesn't. He's just. Oh, episode eight's going to be weird. I almost thought it was like a non sequitur. Like, oh, yeah, there's going to be a real weird episode of Twin Peaks coming up. Oh, yeah, they're all weird. You know, I really thought he was sort of joking until the episode hit.

[Ben]

And there was like. Let's say the. Here's the other thing, which I don't. I guess I'll say this before the setup of what happens in the episode.

[Connor]

This is all true. And I wish that I had documented it more specifically when it happened, because it's gonna sound like the type of thing that someone could easily just make up to say that, oh, this is what happened. I had a dream months before the return began, and the dream was fixated on the fact that how are they going to have Bob in the new Twin Peaks? When Frank Silvis died long dead, in my dream, I was watching the new Twin Peaks, or I was sort of inside the new Twin Peaks watching it. And what I saw in my dream was a dark room where I could barely see and there are a bunch of doctors who are surrounding Agent Cooper's body on an operating table. And they're opening up his stomach, and out of his stomach fly these orbs that have Frank Silva's head. They're like these comets that fly out into space.

[David]

You had a dream that basically predicted.

[Griffin]

Right. Now lynch has used sort of Orbee imagery before. I could see where maybe you could be drawing from this maybe.

[David]

Right. Sure.

[Connor]

There's, like, Eraserheads, things like that. But in the world of Twin Peaks, the idea of an animated sort of Bob head on an orb flying around in space.

[Ben]

And when the old man.

[Connor]

When the woodsman ghosts come up out.

[Ben]

Of the Earth and start digging around in Mr. C's stomach and they pull.

[Connor]

Out an orb that. It's kind of hard to see what it is.

[David]

Yes, that.

[Ben]

It's Bob's face on the thing. Imagine watching that in the middle of the night when you're, like, sleep deprived.

[Connor]

And the music itself is this kind of. And you kind of. It's hard. I've watched on lots of different screens with lots of different resolution. It's always a little bit of a struggle to make out exactly what's going.

[Ben]

On in that sequence.

[Connor]

It kind of makes you feel like.

[Ben]

You'Re watching it with your glasses off or something. There's a very distorted, dreamlike feeling to it.

[David]

Do you folks ever have the experience of watching something late at night, perhaps when you are intentionally trying to fall asleep, putting something on to put yourself to sleep? Right. And you start passing out, and then you, like, kind of, like, snap back for a moment. You're like, oh, the last scene was something I dreamed I was watching something.

[Griffin]

I know what.

[David]

You slowly faded.

[Griffin]

You fall asleep, and then you kind of have a dream about the thing you're like. With the dialog, maybe, that you're hearing.

[David]

Even if it's in branching. And you're sort of like, I'm now starting to like. And you're like, okay, time to turn this off. You know, go to sleep. Right. This is the only thing I've ever watched that feels like this when you're awake, where you're like, this is my brain riffing on the thing I was watching right before I fell asleep. So the fact that you had a dream about it. Yeah, yeah. Trying to, like, solve a story problem, basically, in your mind, a thing that knowing how you think, being your friend for a while now that you spend a lot of time internalizing these sorts of things, it makes sense that you would dream about it in Anticipation.

[Connor]

I just couldn't believe what I was seeing because, like, when the.

[Ben]

It was very. It was exciting and it also made it scarier to me. It's awesome because it felt like he's pulling this from my subconscious.

[Griffin]

Right. Or maybe your subconscious are just linked in some mystical way through the art he's created over the years. And that's sort of a lovely thing to think about.

[Ben]

It's really. Well. Cause also, if it was anything else, like, if I went and saw red one and then realized, oh, I.

[Griffin]

Lucky, man.

[Ben]

If I went and saw red one.

[David]

And then pushing red one and then so hard.

[Ben]

If I went and saw it. If I went and saw red one and then.

[David]

I'm sorry, are you implying that you're not going to.

[Griffin]

Can we move through this sentence, please? He's about to say for the fourth time.

[David]

And then I'm going to circle back.

[Ben]

If I went and saw red one and then there was something in it, I'm like, oh, I think I had a dream about that.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Ben]

I might have pulled it from the trailer.

[Griffin]

Yeah, yeah. Whereas, I mean, it's ubiquitous.

[Ben]

This was so locked down that there was really nothing. Nothing that I dreamed could have been like, oh, well, you heard that it was gonna be like this. It was just. It was just based on my thought of, how are they gonna.

[David]

The whole show was a mystery box.

[Griffin]

But that's my experience watching episode eight, which I did not watch late at night at the Four Points Chelsea, But I did watch with no preparation, except that I. I thought I knew what Twin Peaks the Return was at this point. And I was like, look, I could not have predicted it would be about, you know, Kyle McLaughlin is this kind of dual personality. Neither are totally Mr. Cooper, but, like, wow, I love that he's doing this. I'm into it. And I start this episode. And it starts with, you know, Mr. C driving the other guy. What's the other guy's name? You know, the other guy, the heavy. Ray. Monroe Ray. You know, and you're like, yeah, okay, here we go. We're continuing the story of Twin Peaks the Return. Right. Like, it doesn't start. Black and white atomic bomb. Like, it doesn't immediately start with that.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

It starts like a normal episode of Twin Peaks, quote, unquote, normal episode. But still, you're like, we're in this continuous story he's telling.

[Ben]

He's got trackers on the car.

[Connor]

Pull up close to another car.

[Ben]

You press buttons on that thing, it removes the trackers, you throw the device out the window.

[Connor]

This is how technology works.

[Griffin]

And I think.

[David]

But it's the equivalent of normal, quote, unquote, plotty scenes for Twin peaks, the River 2.

[Griffin]

We're in this story, which I think is so crucial to this episode, because then when it starts to get weird again, quote, unquote weird, you have the thought of, like, okay, well, this is going to be five minutes. We've had surreal imagery in this show so far. We've gone to the sort of purple sea and we've seen the fireman and these contraptions. You know, like, all right, it's a bit of that. And then after a few minutes, you're like, are we not exiting this? And then after a few minutes, you're like, we're not exiting this. And I need to be, like, dipping my whole body into this. Right. Like, this is, like, this is important. Like, this isn't just fun Twin Peaks dream imagery that I can pour over. Like. No, no, no. This is a mantra for the show or whatever.

[David]

Do you remember if you watched this on broadcast or through, like, the app on streaming?

[Griffin]

I watched it on my tv. I think I still. I still had cable. I had. I think I had, like, a DVR. I mean, not to brag, but this is 2017. I think I had, like, a. A true, like, DVR box. And I had, like, recorded Twin Peaks the Return that we. Right. You know what I mean? Like, and so I was watching it, like, I remember, in my living room. You. The living room. You two spent a fair amount of time in.

[David]

Big Nice.

[Griffin]

We used to call it Big Nice. Watching commentaries with me and so on and so forth back. And I was alone. But it could have even been the daytime.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And, like, it was just. I was like, okay, because my Forky didn't watch Twin Peaks the Return like that. It meant nothing.

[David]

But you were living together at that point. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

It's hard for me to, like. I'm sure I've watched this in the daytime at some point over the past however many years, because I've. This is the episode I've gone back to the most. But watching it in the deep, deep dark of night feels like. It almost feels like the type of. Remember when there was gonna be that Spielberg show on Quibi that you could only watch in the dark at night? That was like, do I remember?

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

It almost feels like if any episode could only be accessed after the sun goes down, it would be this episode.

[David]

Do you remember this, David, when you were in charge of Quibi, the deal you made with Steven Spielberg, do you remember this announcement?

[Griffin]

Vaguely. Yes, I do vaguely remember that.

[David]

Spielberg was like, kayfabe aside, my old buddy Jeffrey Katzenberg asked me to do something for Quibi and I got intrigued by the opportunity of the technology. Right. And Katzenberg's basically like, turnstile mode. Look. It's like this spellwork was like, I don't give a. Could you do a thing where you could post something on the app that could only be watched at certain hours?

[Griffin]

Right. Kind of like how you would play Pokemon.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

And you'd have a clock on it. It's like, yeah, you can only catch the owl Pokemon at night.

[David]

And Katzenberg was like, I don't see why not. And he was like, I think it'd be fun to do a skin scary thing that you could only watch when you. When the sun has gone down in whatever time zone you are in. Which is kind of a cool idea.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's so cool.

[David]

And then they announced that. And at no point did Spielberg do any work developing what that was. It was just this constant part of, like, Quibi is putting a billion dollars into content. They just kept being like, and at some point, Steven Spielberg will start writing something that is spooky, which we promise you can only watch after sundown.

[Ben]

And that will happen.

[Connor]

Eventually. Someone will make a thing that you can only watch at night. Yeah, it just is a matter of time.

[David]

I out of routine, often watch the stuff for this podcast in the morning. Pre record. Not always depends on scheduling. Right. But I'm just like, I like to be really fresh on stuff as much as I can because my brain is a sieve and things fall out of it immediately. I was like, very tired last night and I had a busy day and a busy evening. And I was like, I know I need to watch this at night. I know if I wake up and try to watch this in the morning, it will not be correct. And I have felt that with a lot of Twin Peaks, like, a lot of it, I come here, I watch it on the screen. We have here in the office, which is a windowless room where even if it was during the day, it can sometimes feel like night.

[Connor]

But I still three lights and you got yourself at nighttime.

[David]

I still wait for it to actually be the evening. And it feels like the right way to watch the show in this episode. Certainly to your point, David, the fascinating thing about Twin Peaks, the return is very quickly. It just breaks any sense of you being able to predict what the show is. Right. Like, this is not going to function like old Twin Peaks. It's not even going to function like David lynch movies completely. Right. And then like we're just going to cut out of scenes, cut to new characters. You saying like, I was expecting this to be a regular episode. The notion of a regular episode at this point is know that you can't try to game out what this is going to be. Right. Like, give in to the chaos of it.

[Griffin]

People maybe initially were sort of trying to do that of like, right. What are the theories we can think about? And it's like, it's not really.

[David]

I think by episode seven, people have probably settled into this is what it is.

[Griffin]

Yeah, exactly. I certainly had.

[Ben]

Me too. I also had by episode seven, I thought, I've outsmarted this. I know what this is. You can't surprise me.

[David]

I remember being on Twitter, cursed Hellsight in the year 2017 when this episode aired and seeing people just go like, holy shit. That's the greatest thing that's ever aired on television. This is seismic. And without wanting to like have it spoiled and people were posting still images, I was just sort of like, I gather he did something pretty experimental and somewhat non narrative within the format of television. And over the years I've heard people talk about this and show more images and whatever. But I did feel largely unspoiled in a lot of ways. Outside of knowing this is somehow about the atomic bomb. Like, that was kind of the only thing I really knew about it. I want to say. And then I put this on last night and I had the opposite thing of what you're saying, which is I was then unnerved and thrown off by it. Starting with 10 plus minutes of quote unquote normal Twin Peaks, the Return. I was like, isn't this supposed to be the crazy episode? When does this get crazy?

[Griffin]

Right? What do you. This is just. This is Twin Peaks are sharing so far, right.

[David]

I was like, I'm ready for this to be a completely standalone, like, weird installation piece. That was my feeling of this. Those people turn on just went like, what? What did they do with Twin Peaks? And so then that transition is even more bizarre, but yet coming at it from the wrong direction in the wrong order. It had the same effect on me of like, it does feel like reality is like ripping apart at the seams.

[Ben]

Yeah. Ben, when did you first see episode eight?

[Unnamed Guest]

I watched it for this show.

[David]

Ben has been watching Return for the first time.

[Ben]

So you're okay. So what time of day were you watching? When you got to eight, did you. Were you prepared for eight being weird?

[Unnamed Guest]

Yes. Because of the format curated these episodes. So I did watch it very late at night. I want to say it was like two in the morning because I knew this was so hyped up.

[David]

Assassin's Creed hours.

[Unnamed Guest]

That by the time.

[Griffin]

Yeah, for sure.

[Unnamed Guest]

Door that by the time it was like that it was so late at night. But I was like, I'm on eight, I gotta do this right.

[Griffin]

I'm intrigued. I wanna like it's like there's a little sliver of light from behind the door and you're like, hey, I want to open it.

[David]

Just to unpack this. Connor Ben has like within like bouts of insomnia. Will have like things he watches at 2 o'clock in the morning when it's like I've woken up and I can't fall asleep or I wasn't able to fall asleep. And it's often a rotation of. He will watch the same thing 30 times for a couple months before moving on to something else. And they are usually. It's just like some inexplicable. He is connected to the tone or the imagery of this. It feels perfect that you watch this for the first time in basically that time slot.

[Unnamed Guest]

You feel kind of like you're the only person who's awake at that time when you watch stuff.

[Griffin]

I like that.

[Unnamed Guest]

You know that feeling.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Guest]

I'm the only little person here.

[David]

David February, February movie preview. Okay. And I gotta say it's a pretty interesting February we have coming up.

[Griffin]

Yeah. What do we got?

[David]

The Monkey actually called the monkey. New film from Oz Perkins, whose Long Legs I loved last year. Starring another one of our friends, past and future guests, Tatiana Maslany.

[Griffin]

That's right. And looks very, very funny and cool and scary. Also very intrigued by this. Martin Campbell Action or Cleaner With Daisy.

[David]

Ridley starring Daisy Ridley. Someone I have always had very, very calm opinions about on this podcast. I'm very excited for. It feels like she's kind of ramping up her movie career again.

[Griffin]

Here's the thing. Oh, and then there's the Day the Earth Blew Up.

[David]

I was gonna say say if that weren't enough. February ending with the first original feature length animated Looney Tunes movie ever that I have heard is excellent.

[Griffin]

And here's the thing.

[David]

The Day the Earth Blew up in a Looney Tunes movie.

[Griffin]

What's awesome about all this is that there's lots of interesting different kinds of movies in theaters that you can go see.

[David]

And with Regal Unlimited. The whole point is you sign up and seeing three, four, five, six of those movies is easy and affordable.

[Griffin]

And I find that once, you know, you have the Regal Unlimited, right, You know, sort of the option of basically like, let me pop over my theater.

[David]

I have three free hours. That's what's nice.

[Griffin]

You do it more.

[David]

You do it more.

[Griffin]

Go see the movies.

[David]

Go see the movies.

[Griffin]

Sign up now in the Regal app or at the link in the description in our show notes and use code blankcheck to get 20% off your three month subscription. And then you're gonna be in the Crown Club. You're gonna get rewards. You're gonna build up points and get.

[David]

Free popcorns and sodas.

[Griffin]

25% off candy on Tuesdays, 50% off popcorn. Discounted ticket.

[David]

Go to the Regal Crown Club website. And as I said, it's a little deep. It's a little buried in here. There is a section where you can redeem your points for old promotional movie memorabilia like Red one socks.

[Griffin]

Right?

[David]

Follow the link in the show notes, go to the Regal app, click on the UP Unlimited banner and then follow the instructions to sign up and enter promo code Blank check when prompted to receive your discount. And look, I'm just gonna say it again, David. Signing up for Regal Unlimited or maybe gifting a membership to a moviegoer in your life.

[Griffin]

Sure.

[David]

Great way to support the show. This is, this is a dream advertiser.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

A dream partner for us. We want to keep this going. We think it could benefit everybody, especially the movies. David.

[Griffin]

Yep.

[David]

You know what I love?

[Griffin]

How about Quince New Year, New chance for new clothes. Okay, well, listen to me. I think everyone needs to try and refresh their liquid quality pieces, but stay on budget. I think everyone needs Quince's Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $60. I genuinely love Quince. I think I've talked about this on the show before, but I am Quince Pilled, right? I be loading up quints and buying some nice soft shirts and good fitting pants all the time. They've got some activewear, performance tees, tech shorts. They've got, you know, soft shirts that are warm, which I've been really favoring in the winter. And you know, they're priced 50 to 80% less than the similar brands because they partner directly with the top factories. No middlemen.

[David]

Perfect.

[Griffin]

And they only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices.

[David]

No sharks.

[Griffin]

Anyway, so yeah, if you want to upgrade your closet this year without the upgraded price tag, you should go to quince.com check for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N C-E.com check to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com check. Bye.

[David]

Bye. Okay, now I'm gonna ask the dummy question. Okay, can you guys explain to me what this is about?

[Griffin]

When. When did you watch it?

[David]

Last night. I've only had like 12 hours to stew on this and I didn't want to fucking dig into like reading a bunch of fucking recaps and analysis.

[Griffin]

Well, let's. Well, we'll talk about what happens in the episode. First, I want to tie up two things.

[David]

You want to type tie up two things. Take out your string.

[Griffin]

One, I forgot that Charlie Harper, the character in Two and a Half Men, when he dies, that was the most watched episode of that show in history. Like 25 million people or whatever. The first Ashton Kutcher episode is bas basically what it was.

[David]

Yeah. For comparison, this episode was watched by 250, 000 people.

[Ben]

Right.

[David]

I forgot about timing.

[Griffin]

Melanie Linsky, who is a. A mild friend of mine and of course is famous.

[David]

Well.

[Griffin]

Well, now it's sort of crazy how Melanie Linsky. It's not crazy because she deserves all the.

[David]

But that she was like a regular.

[Ben]

Right.

[Griffin]

That she had the years on that show and kind of just in the mix of like. Yeah, Melanie Lynskey from Heavenly Creatures, like is like on tv.

[David]

And I remember like seeing her in the Informant and being like, it's n. Someone's putting her to work again. And then I'm like, oh, she spent eight years on the most watched show in the world.

[Griffin]

I think she was a character who come in and out because she was his stalker. Right. You know, she was a regular. Oh, she was a regular for at least some seasons. Yeah, I'm sure that was.

[David]

I think it was the thing she was like a guest star that then was so popular. They catch.

[Griffin]

Right. And she's funny or whatever. I mean, I've not seen a lot of Two and a Half Men, so. But one of the only episodes I've.

[David]

Seen, the Funeral, I just remember, right.

[Griffin]

That it's implied that she shoved Charlie in front front of a train and he exploded like a balloon. She says yes, because he had like cheated on her again or whatever.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Anyway, just. I just forgot that Melanie Lynskey killed Charlie in two and a half minutes.

[David]

It's quietly the darkest TV show of all time.

[Griffin]

Right. Because Chuck Lorre had that, that. That strain to him.

[David]

Yes. But it's the most extreme version of it. Also in that episode, Dharma and Greg, attend the funeral.

[Griffin]

Oh, really? Because it's sort of like the. The Laurie verse, right?

[David]

Or maybe they come to look at the house because John Crier's trying to sell it. I don't know. Whatever. Go on, David. I'm sorry. Keep tying things up.

[Griffin]

The other thing I wanted to just. I just wanted to ask you. So today or yesterday or some. This week, John Krasinski was named people's Sexiest Man Alive.

[David]

Okay, if we're talking about National Nightmares. Yep.

[Griffin]

And everyone's up in arms about it because they're like, john Krasinski, like, in this day and age. Like, he's fairly bland. Like. And it's like, what Guys, that means a lot of people turned it down. Like, you have to remember. But it is not like this is a weird. Yeah.

[David]

Year to do it.

[Griffin]

Is that fair to say it's a weird year to do it? Because what's he got going on?

[David]

Exactly.

[Griffin]

I mean.

[Ben]

Well, this was the year that we got our first work from the imagination of. So what's the sexiest organ? What's the sexiest organ in the human body? It's the brain.

[Griffin]

What are you talking about? If his film.

[David]

If. If what? If.

[Ben]

And what's sexier than the possibility of something. If.

[Griffin]

Now he's 45 stiff. Yeah, that's fine. You're doing great.

[David]

Yeah. Watch it at 2 o'clock in the morning, all right.

[Griffin]

You will feel like the only person on earth. He is 45 years old, which makes him one of the older, sexiest men alive.

[David]

That's also weird.

[Griffin]

That feels a little surprising. Right?

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

Now, obviously, everyone knows the oldest, sexiest man alive. People sexiest.

[David]

Sean Connery.

[Griffin]

Sean Connery was named that at 59 when he was fully in like Untouchables.

[David]

Bald dude and looked like the oldest man alive.

[Griffin]

At 50, there was an argument of like, oh, he's been around forever and whatever.

[David]

But like Nolte was like 55.

[Griffin]

Nolte was 51. The others in their 50s were. Paul Rudd recently was.

[Ben]

I was going to say ageless.

[Griffin]

Harrison Ford was named at around six days, seven nights time. That's about 50, 56. And of course, quite bizarrely, Patrick Dempsey got it last year, I guess in conjunction with Ferrari. And he was 57.

[David]

Yes. And I feel like he had some other thing. I mean, this is.

[Griffin]

And I was. I remember I worked at People when he turned it down one year. And they named Matthew McConaughey instead, or. No, it was Damon. It was Damon that got it that year anyway.

[David]

But to your Point. There is a lot of, like, press maneuvering around.

[Griffin]

Well, you need the person to. You can't just sort of like, be like, oh, they're the sexiest man alive and they don't want to talk to People magazine. People's like, well, we still think you're sexiest, so we're putting you on the COVID no matter what. Like, you need them to agree.

[David]

Look, right?

[Ben]

You can't. You can't do that to someone without their consent.

[Griffin]

I mean, you can, but you're not going to get no much out of it.

[Ben]

Creepy.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Ben]

People magazine just bestowing it on unwilling People.

[David]

Paul Rudd, an incredibly handsome man, ageless. Right. As you said when he was dubbed People Sexist Man Alive. We're like, that's. A lot of people were like, that's the title we're giving him now. I mean, and then the answer was. You're like Ghostbusters Afterlife is in theaters too.

[Griffin]

Yeah, that's right. It just.

[David]

Krasinski. You're like, what is this even tying into? It came out if years ago.

[Ben]

But before we talk about digital. Okay.

[Griffin]

Before we talk about.

[David]

Yeah, why are you bringing this up?

[Ben]

I just want to steal. Coming out soon, probably.

[David]

It's already out.

[Ben]

They might know a sexy steel. Okay.

[David]

It'll be different second edition.

[Griffin]

The sexy edition is the youngest sexiest man alive people ever mentioned. Because I sorted by age. Just out of interest.

[David]

You have.

[Griffin]

I was surprised by the answer.

[Ben]

I'm going to guess. I'm going to guess Baby Herman.

[Griffin]

Not Baby Herman.

[Ben]

Okay.

[Griffin]

From who?

[David]

You know what that's most sexist.

[Ben]

Most sexist man alive.

[David]

It's not Michael B. Jordan.

[Griffin]

It's not Michael B. Jordan, but I.

[David]

Imagine he's on the lower end.

[Griffin]

33. He's on the lower end.

[David]

David, tell me the age of the young.

[Griffin]

27.

[David]

27 was the youngest.

[Griffin]

You're never going to guess this. I bring it up. I'm going to give you one more guess.

[David]

Mark Harmon.

[Griffin]

No. Mark harmon was 34.

[Ben]

Okay.

[David]

I just knew he got it. So I'm trying to think.

[Griffin]

Answer is Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise won people's Sexiest man alive in 1990 when he was 27 years old. The only time they've named him thus.

[David]

So that is like Days of Thunder.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Or. Yeah. Sort of. Far and away.

[Ben]

Yeah, you're a car, Kirschannan.

[Griffin]

I think Days of Thunder came out in 1990, so I guess that would have been the explicit tie in. Isn't that just weird, though, that you're like that he was the Babiest sexiest man alive in full magazine history.

[Ben]

Can I tell you? I. I gain a little bit of respect. I've never really given a lot of thought to People magazine's process, but 27, they're. That's pretty. They've. They've given a safe. That's a safe floor, age wise.

[Connor]

Go any lower and you're just close to boyhood.

[David]

I would also bet the average is like 45.

[Griffin]

I think the average is in late 30s, early 40s.

[David]

Yeah. I just feel like they usually go for real grown up men.

[Griffin]

Right. Because that's their audience's. You know, older women are reading People magazines.

[Ben]

I wish they would emphasize more that this is people's sexiest man who agreed to be sexiest man alive. And there should be a little list, a little sidebar that's like, here's who said no.

[David]

So in 2017, it was bad coop, right? Mr. C was the sexiest man alive.

[Griffin]

Thank. Thank you for this title. He's like, staring over your shoulder.

[David]

I see my press people did good.

[Griffin]

I would be excited if it was Dougie. Dougie Jones, like, sexiest fan alive. And it's like him, you know, with like a tie on his head.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Does Dougie Dougie do it more than Mr. C in the Return?

[David]

Does Dougie do it?

[Ben]

Does Dougie Doggy does it?

[Griffin]

I mean, he has sex.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Does he do it more?

[David]

Well, Dougie Dougie has sex. Does. Without spoiling what sex to come in the episodes I have yet to see. Does Coupe in Dougie's body do it?

[Ben]

Oh, right.

[David]

Because the transfer happens right after Dougie's done it.

[Griffin]

He does. Right.

[David]

But I'm like, do we think that he's stupping Naomi Watts?

[Griffin]

I think he does.

[David]

You think he does in the episodes.

[Griffin]

We'Ve seen, doesn't he? He definitely has sex with her. Yes, he does. I just can't remember when it is.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah, he does.

[David]

Okay. Okay. So, Dougie, do it.

[Ben]

Dougie, do it.

[David]

Dougie, do it.

[Griffin]

Anyway, Episode eight of Twin Peaks Return. Twin Peaks Return.

[David]

Twin Peaks.

[Griffin]

The Return does begin with Mr. C and Ray driving through the night. And it's kind of. First there's the kind of hilarious tracker device.

[Ben]

I love the technology that it all reminds me of those phones that you used to get that have the giant push buttons that are like four older people.

[Griffin]

Right. It just looks like someone worked up some special effects in like, Excel. It's like a big yellow box and a big black box.

[David]

Every.

[Ben]

Every computer that's used in, in the Return feels Like, it's designed in that way where it's just to look very clear. You type sentences in all caps.

[David]

I genuinely mean this. I love the shit that David lynch just doesn't care about, you know, that it. It doesn't feel like, oh, he's just lazy, he's phoning this part in or whatever, where he's just like, this isn't important. Just come up with the simplest representational version of this. I'm not gonna make, like a meal out of this. If it. If it, like, translates enough for the audience to get it. This is like, means to an end. What do I really want this episode to focus on, you know?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

So they drive. I think there's this kind of awesome. And I do feel like it's getting you in the mood. Sort of couple minutes of just like, you're watching the road and it's dark, right? Sort of Lost highway vibes, right? You're just driving through this, like, total black, right?

[David]

Like some mystery location, like state these episodes maintain, where, like, at any moment you're like, is the whole episode going to be set in this car, you know, or are they going to cut away from this in like 10 seconds and never get back to this again for hours? There's not a sense of, like, temporal security while watching the show, in my experience.

[Ben]

He also will, like, if you look at some of these scenes, he'll have two people driving in a car. Cut to that classic Lynchian just shot of the yellow line of the point of view of the car sort of at the road, and then cut back to them talking and then cut to that again. And you're like, most filmmakers would have one cut to that and not more unless they were having lots of time pass or something. But he'll sometimes just like, well, let's see this for a while now. Now let's cut back to them for some more. Let's cut to it again. It's sort of. He doesn't.

[David]

It's a rhythmic thing.

[Ben]

Yeah. It's the amount of patience that he has. For how long? How long? We look at certain things.

[David]

Well, to your point, there are two different uses that most filmmakers would have for that kind of cutaway, right. One is like time jump, as you said, and the second one is, oh, I had the scene play out in a two shot and I didn't get coverage and the scene's playing too long. So if we have a reverse of the road, that way I can cut to that and cut back and cut inner fat within the scene, which is the opposite of what he's doing. He's letting you watch them in silence for minutes. Like he's actually using it to stretch time out more rather than to compress.

[Ben]

I also, you know, there's, there's. We talked about this on the previous episode where I, I, we got into it a little bit where I declared that the Missing Pieces counted as a standalone feature film.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Ben]

Right.

[David]

You guys came to blows.

[Ben]

And then the.

[Griffin]

Yeah, we don't need to revisit that one.

[Ben]

But if you look at. I just rewatched Blue Velvet and the deleted scenes for Blue Velvet, which are pretty significant length and a lot of it is just establishing that Jeffrey is at school and dating Megan Mullally. And then his father has a health episode and he comes back to stay there. All stuff that's established just by him being. Showing up at his first scene, like, yeah, I'm here.

[Griffin]

Right. He just loves that stuff.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And there's almost like a. I have.

[Griffin]

Seen the mega Malali. I think she's posted the clip or whatever, you know.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

She's got like kind of feathered hair.

[Ben]

It does add an element of like, he's not just involved with two women, that he's also got a girlfriend at. It does add an element of that. He's, he's more of a. He's a three woman man, not a two woman man.

[David]

Sure.

[Ben]

In that movie.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

But generally speaking, if you look at most of David Lynch's movies, there are a lot of pretty significant deleted scenes that don't make their way. And Fire Walk With Me being the biggest example where you have literally a feature film's worth of deleted scenes with other characters, other things going on.

[David]

Inland has that to cut in a Firewalk with me way of like a semi side feature. A Wake up Ron Burgundy.

[Connor]

Yeah.

[David]

Yes.

[Connor]

Lynch makes a lot of Wake Up Ron Burgundy's.

[David]

Lynch loves Wake Up Ron Burgundy. Yeah. And the Alarm Clock Gang should have made the theatrical cut.

[Ben]

I should have put Gathered in the main kind of Part two.

[David]

Why are all other filmmakers afraid to put Gethard in the theatrical?

[Ben]

All different jokes from different takes.

[David]

It's a bizarro cut, like Wanderlust.

[Ben]

The same story beats, but new jokes in every scene. Every joke is an alt anyway.

[David]

You know, what's the kind of crazy, fucked up shit lynch would do?

[Griffin]

What's that?

[David]

Make a movie that's only Gethard and cut everyone else out as a fuck you to the studios.

[Ben]

Let's bring G. Let's bring Guest. I like to think that he would have.

[David]

He would call himself.

[Connor]

He would call him Gath the way.

[Ben]

He calls Kyle MacLachlan Kale. He'd be like, let's bring Gaff in for a gaff take.

[Griffin]

What was your point?

[Ben]

My point?

[Griffin]

Okay.

[Ben]

No, no, my point was, and don't.

[David]

Worry, we're going to circle back to this later.

[Ben]

One of the producers, I can't remember the name of the producer who said this on the Return was asked, are there deleted scenes from the Return?

[David]

Sabrina Southern.

[Ben]

Sabrina Sutherland.

[David]

And she said, I saw this quote.

[Ben]

She basically said, no.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And I do think that, and I don't say this as this is going to sound like a burn. I love the Return. I do think I've never seen something.

[Connor]

Where I was more quickly convinced that everything that was shot had been used.

[Griffin]

Yeah. I mean, all the stuff that maybe would have been cut, I love that it exists. It's magic. This thing is magic. But yes, any studio in their right mind would be like, we're fucking cutting him. Spray painting the shovel.

[David]

We're cutting the first moment that came to mind.

[Griffin]

We're cutting Ashley Judd just walking around the room being like, I don't know if I hear something, you know, like shit like that. But like, of course that has to.

[David]

Be the shovels thing. Like any other filmmaker would be like, look, let's get two minutes of footage so we have options. And then we'll pick the best 10 seconds to use. And David lynch is like, no, the whole four continuous minutes. And then you're like, what about the other angle you shot? And he's like, that's its own four minutes in another episode.

[Connor]

There is, there's a thing that directors.

[David]

Will say when they're filming Gethard is holding the shovel.

[Connor]

There's a thing that a director will say when they're filming something that they may or may not use. They're like, well, it's just, just so we have it.

[David]

Yes.

[Connor]

And I do feel like Twin Peaks, the Return could. Could have been called Twin Peaks.

[Ben]

Just so we just have it.

[David]

And even beyond that, at times you watch it and you're like, where's the main footage? It feels like you're watching a Missing Pieces, you know? Well, and obviously there are plop.

[Griffin]

I think there were a lot of fans who that was. Their exact reaction to the show initially was like, no, but where's the actual plotline of the show of Cooper reuniting with his buddies at the sheriff's office?

[David]

Is Annie okay?

[Griffin]

Right. Yeah.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

To maybe rescue Laura or Annie or to defeat Bob Once and for all, you know? Yeah, right.

[Ben]

And this is why I think the Missing Pieces is such a perfect bridge between Fire Walk with me. Call it a movie to the Return, because I do think that 21st century lynch is more. This is his rhythm of storytelling, which is sort of like a little bit less worried about, like, does this move the story forward and a little bit more like, let's put it all in there.

[Connor]

That the missing pieces sort of all work together in the same sort of rhythm that I think they really prepare you for the rhythm of the Return, which is like the thing you think you want.

[Ben]

You may or may not get it, but you're gonna get a lot of stuff that another per. If someone had given notes to the Return, if Lynch came to someone and said, I gotta cut this down to 10 episodes, it would not be hard. You could easily do a 10 episode.

[Connor]

Cut of this that would hit all.

[Ben]

The main beats you need to hit. And then you have like a missing piece of style thing that's like, oh, here's like Harry Truman's Frank Truman.

[Griffin]

Jesus.

[Ben]

Him on the phone with Dr. Russ Tamblyn. No, no.

[David]

Frost's dad.

[Ben]

Yeah. That is a great example of a scene that could have been. If there was a Twin Peaks, the Return, the Missing Pieces, where it's like.

[Connor]

We really want to. It's nice to see this character, but it doesn't move forward any like, of the chess pieces or I think more.

[David]

Realistically a version of that scene that is cut down to 30 seconds. That is just like. We're just letting the audience know where he is and moving on. They just need to see his face for five seconds. Isn't it nice that we got him.

[Ben]

In a Skype window in episode 8? After the part where.

[Connor]

The part where they pull Bob out.

[Ben]

Of the stomach of.

[David]

Let's just go through this because we're almost there.

[Griffin]

So they get to this hill, right? And Ray shoots Coop.

[David]

He goes to take a leak in the woods. Coop's got a gun. You think he's about to pull out on him. Then you see that he also has a gun.

[Griffin]

Ray has anticipated that he's in trouble, so he shoots Coop.

[David]

Turns around. Coop's Mr. C gun is empty.

[Ben]

He left an unloaded golden gun in the glove compartment. Mr. C. Classic.

[Griffin]

Mr. C falls. And you're like, okay, big twist.

[Ben]

Calls him a. Calls him a fucker, too.

[Griffin]

Pretty rude of him.

[David]

That's kind of even ruder than the gunshots. I would almost argue.

[Griffin]

I'm not trying to. Again, I'm not trying to sound like some naive fool who is like, I really had a handle on Twin Peaks, the return up to this point. And I was, like, completely grasping everything it was doing, but nonetheless, him, like, falling to the ground and then suddenly a bunch of sooty woodsmen emerging from the forest, like, kind of fading in and out of reality and then just kind of going like, I don't know how. I'm just doing.

[David]

David's doing an incredible. I don't know where he conjured the emotion he told.

[Ben]

He pushed back from the desk and started paddling. His hands frantically in the air, eyes closed. He really got into it, but it.

[David]

Was like he was conjuring something. Like, David was, like, in touch with spirits from. From another plane.

[Ben]

I felt so helpless watching that sequence when. When they come out of the earth and start dancing around and Rey falls to the ground. I felt like. Ray. I felt like I, as a viewer had, like, lost control of my point of view.

[Griffin]

Watching you're just like, I have to pay attention because this is dark and mysterious, what is happening. They seem to sort of like smear mud and blood all over him, right? And then they, you know, like, as you say, they. They. All this crazy shit, you know, is happening. But my favorite thing about David lynch, where you're like, there's actual sort of plotty import to what is going on. And yet this is also imagery that I could pour over and have thoughts about, have theories about or interpretations of for the rest of my life, and it'd be just fine, too.

[David]

Well, I do want to hear you unpack both sides of that.

[Griffin]

Well, okay. Well, so basically, they tear, you know, a ball as sort of Connor was basically setting up with Bob's face in it.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Out of Mr. C. And they sort of show it to Rey.

[Ben]

Right?

[David]

Here's the evil. It's right here.

[Ben]

Presumably, it's covered in some sort of viscous fluid. So it could be considered one saliva Bob ball.

[David]

Well, Connor, well done.

[Griffin]

And, you know, there's sort of a plainness to how lynch thinks about this stuff or presents this stuff, right? And it was true in original Twin Peaks too, right? Where it's like, you'll know that Leland is possessed by Bob because Leland will look at the mirror and then his face will just turn into Bob's face and back. And he's like, this isn't more complicated than you think it is. That's what I want you to understand here. And so in the same way, where it's like, do you know what's inside Mr. C kind of making him work. It's like bob his head in a globe kind of, and it's inside of his tummy. I just want you guys to get that.

[David]

You talk about the feeling of losing control. Right. I feel like. Whereas his use of time in this show, in this series season in particular, feels like up until this point, a lot of forcing you to live in things and recalibrate away from the rhythms you're used to. The way he uses the various effects for the rest of the episode at this point does feel like he is forcing you to stay in these things for an uncomfortable amount of time. That creates its own tension, if that makes sense. And it also is the thing that, like, he. I don't. It is kind of astonishing and inexplicable how much he is able to get so much visceral power out of using the most basic sort of like original, like language of trickery in cinema. Right. Where it's just like he's like, if I basically do a digital version of a double exposure, a thing that has been done since the 19 Lumelier.

[Griffin]

Right, exactly.

[David]

It's like one of the first building blocks of film language of like, here's weird you can do with cameras. And he's just like, that's somehow more evocative or at least I know how to make it more evocative than what a lot of other people I think would over conceptualize as like, as you saying, like, what's the simplest version of this? And does that have some weird power to it?

[Connor]

It's also interesting to me when. And we'll talk about this in other parts of the episode, because throughout the return, you know, there's a little bit more of a, you know, a digital.

[Ben]

Look to this series. And very often there are effects that are very cheap looking, simple digital, but like digital looking, cheap effects that are.

[Connor]

Very much on purpose because you look at what a lot of the things in this episode that are essentially effects and they are not at all cheap looking. They are like some of the best, most beautiful looking digital effects. I almost feel dirty using the word digital to describe them.

[David]

But then you also get like, when there's like the extended sequence of the people entering and exiting the general store and it's basically like weaponizing the language that we're used to of what it feels like when you're watching something that starts glitching out when your service is interrupted.

[Connor]

Yeah.

[David]

You know, it's like so unnerving to like, I am watching this on a disc and my brain Cannot stop going. Like, is the player malfunctioning? And I know from, like, second to, like, this is clearly an intentional lynch thing, but making us sit in that for, like, minutes does something to your brain where you're just like, this is wrong. I'm used to panicking when this happens and then, like, checking my wifi or, like, checking the cables or, like, hitting a device. There's something unnerving about how much it's well described, simplifies it. And as much as, yes, you're saying in this episode, he shows you that, like, I could make the effects look perfect. Perfect if I wanted to. Sometimes there's something more disconcerting about, like, why is it that simple?

[Griffin]

So whatever this. But this thing is revealed. Rey, as I would, runs away.

[David]

They're smearing the blood all over, but.

[Griffin]

Ray's like, I'm getting out of here.

[Ben]

He runs away. There's a scene calls. This phone call is probably one of the funnier, unintentionally funnier things in the.

[Connor]

Episode, which is his description of what happened.

[Griffin]

Let me. In fact, I can probably read the dialogue. Who he's calling is Jeffries. Right? But it's sort of. I mean, it doesn't really matter, but, I mean, that's for nerds like you or I to think about the fact that Philip Jefferies, the David Bowie character who is now a giant teapot, is, like, directing an agency against Mr. C. I mean, that's a spoiler in the weirdest way possible. It's not really important to the show in any way, but I guess if you want to know it, you can.

[David]

Bowie had passed away by this point already in real life.

[Griffin]

He was supposed to be in it, or maybe at least lend his voice to it, and he had died in 2016, and I think it just didn't happen.

[David]

But everything we've described so far happens basically within 10 minutes, right? And then the phone call happens around minute 11.

[Griffin]

I think he's dead, but he's found some kind of help. So I'm not 100%. And I. I saw something in Cooper may be the key to what this is all about.

[David]

And then, of course, we're like, oh, my God. Big revelations coming. Cut to Nine Inch Nails performance.

[Connor]

The Nine Inch Nails.

[David]

The Nine Inch Nails presented by the MC character here, we basically have not seen in the previous musical performances. We're obviously getting, like, a Roadhouse musical number in almost every episode, if not every episode. But I feel like this sort of, like, MC character speaking to the mic with the pine cone yeah, sure, sure. I don't remember seeing. Just as you're saying, like, doing the sort of introduction. Ladies and gentlemen, the Nine Inch Nails.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

If they're the SNL musical guest feels like a new frame for these performances.

[Griffin]

His first appearance.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

He has several more, though, so we will see him again.

[Ben]

And I will say, I'm not gonna spoil. I'm not gonna spoil this. There will be a point where we see him again. I won't be around to discuss it.

[David]

With you, and I'll miss you dearly.

[Ben]

But when it happens, I'll say to you, there is a contender for what I think is the most surprising moment in all of Twin Peaks, the return. At least purely just in terms of, like, if you'd given me a thousand guesses, I never would have guessed this would be a thing that would happen.

[David]

Do you think you know what he's talking about, Daniel?

[Griffin]

I'm not sure. I'd love to. I mean, there's so many things to think about. But the Nine Inch Nails performance, we should just say that is the sort of demarcation point. We don't know it at the time, but it is unusual in the show right now for there to be a musical act in the middle. Usually that's the.

[David]

Not all, but a lot of them. Right. That's the end of the episode. Yeah.

[Griffin]

And it's Nine Inch Nails. Right. It's not just.

[David]

It's a big gap.

[Griffin]

Yeah, exactly. And it's this incredibly, you know, vivid performance. Trent's got his sunglasses on. He's wailing. Go ahead.

[Unnamed Guest]

They're projecting sort of digital static over them.

[David]

Huh. Like as a. As like a live effect. It's not like a video image manipulation of how they're filming it. It's like from the tech booth. Yeah. At the Roadhouse.

[Griffin]

Right?

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Do you know this song, She's Gone Away?

[David]

Are you a Nine Nails guy, Connor?

[Ben]

No, not really. I know very little about it. I was looking at the lyrics to this before.

[Griffin]

It was, like, a recent song. It was from a recent ep. Ben, do you care for this song?

[Unnamed Guest]

I'm not really that up on late career Nine Inch Nails, but I like the song. I think he. It's crazy how much he doesn't seem to age. Trent Reznor.

[Griffin]

It's true.

[Unnamed Guest]

He's so hot still.

[David]

The wild thing for me is just the, like, last, like, 10, 15 years turn of him becoming jacked as hell.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

I feel like he was always like this weird, emo, wispy, like, weirdo sensitive, you know? Dark goth guy. And then at some point, he, like, started looking like the Bully in an 80s team.

[Unnamed Guest]

I think he got sober.

[Griffin]

Sure.

[Unnamed Guest]

And, you know, there's a natural progression to eventually getting yoked.

[David]

I just remember there. My first exposure to the idea of Trent Reznor was Celebrity Death Match, where the puppet looked like he was like the. Like a scarecrow or some. You know, and it was like, oh, he's like this weird, moody guy. And I believe they gave him literal Nine Inch Nails. I just looked it up. He was fighting Puff Daddy.

[Griffin]

Yeah, Puff Daddy. Because it's rap versus rock.

[David]

Yes. They made them represent the two sides.

[Griffin]

Celebrity Deathmatch is one of those things that. When that was on when I was like, 12, we were all like, this is like the pinnacle of art.

[David]

Oh, it was.

[Griffin]

And I'm sure if I watch it now, it would be like, this is fucking.

[David]

I've tried to go back and watch them.

[Griffin]

Not funny at all.

[David]

I wouldn't say it's bad, but it is bizarre to watch now. I think there is good craft behind it, should we say? But you're just like, yes, exactly. When I was like, 10 years old, I was like, we. We. I treated every episode of Celebrity Deathmatch as if it were part 8 of Twin Peaks the Return, where I was like, the rules have been rewritten. How can anyone make TV after this? Eric Fogel's done it again.

[Unnamed Guest]

We should also shout out Atticus.

[Griffin]

Atticus.

[Unnamed Guest]

Atticus Ross, people, is a member of Nine Inch Nails. I think he got added.

[David]

He's basically the only other permanent member now, right? Yeah.

[Griffin]

And he does his scores with him, obviously. And he's a lovely British man. I've. I've talked about it on the show.

[David]

People got angry. We didn't give enough credit when we've talked about Resna Ross scores.

[Griffin]

Oh, Lord. Okay. Well, people get angry about everything anyway. I just love the. The performance. It's cool anyway. But as a mood setter, it's. And then Mr. C, like, pops up when it's over.

[Ben]

Yeah. It's a real. Like, when you. Especially once you know what the whole episode is you. I look at that as, like, this is the moment where lynch decides, like, we're breaking the form completely. We're going to just have a full musical number, which is not something that scripted television dramas do.

[David]

Credit's not playing over it. Not cutting to, like, dialogue happening between Roadhouse patrons in between. Like, it's just fully right. David.

[Griffin]

Oh, hello.

[David]

Hi. How are you doing?

[Griffin]

I'm good. I'm Good. I mean, Valentine's Day is coming up.

[David]

I mean, I was gonna bring it up. You're a married man.

[Griffin]

Sure. For me, there's only one place I trust. 1-800-flowers.com.

[David]

You gotta show your wife that you love her and that you care.

[Griffin]

Each year I'm ordering stunning, high quality bouquets from 1-800-flowers that my wife absolutely loves. And we're partnering with 1-800-flowers to make sure you're a Valentine's hero with this exclusive offer for listener an easy sell.

[David]

This is a great time of year to encourage people to order flowers for the love of their life.

[Griffin]

Look. And they.

[David]

This doesn't need extra spin on it. We don't need to put any mustard on this ad.

[Griffin]

Reid offer with double the flowers. Double the roses for free. When you get one dozen, they'll double your bouquet of two dozen. It's the perfect way to say I love you without breaking the bank.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

1-800-Flowers. It always delivers.

[David]

Trust. I trust you when you say that. Yeah. This is all that needs to be said. Ding dong.

[Griffin]

And who's that at the door?

[David]

We should check quickly, right? I mean, I know we're almost. We're getting through this ad read.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

But while you check the door, I.

[Griffin]

Will tell you that I got a great bouquet from 1-800-Flowers. It arrived right away.

[David]

I'm just going to walk to the door quickly.

[Griffin]

It's really nice. I didn't get roses. I got a sort of double. Yeah. Yeah. Hand outraged comes in a really, really nice container. Yes.

[David]

Who can play into rose bud?

[Unnamed Guest]

My God.

[David]

Dan Pluck petunias, too.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's been a while. How are you?

[David]

Dan Candyman? Cam. Been a dog's age. It has. It's been a long time since you guys have invited me to come over.

[Griffin]

No one invited you.

[David]

I felt like it. I felt it in the air. My ears were burning.

[Unnamed Guest]

Wow. Dan Candyman, you look like crap.

[David]

It's been a rough couple years.

[Griffin]

Why? What's going on, Dan?

[David]

I come from the Candyman family, of course, of the Montreal Candymans. And we're a flower family by trade. The name does tend to confuse people. Along with me singing a song that's a modified version of the Candyman, the Willy Wonka song. And it always confused people. So I'm actually here today selling candy.

[Griffin]

Oh, okay.

[David]

Well, I'll buy some candy to raise money for my high school's basketball team.

[Griffin]

Okay, cool. How much?

[David]

You're not going to ask any questions about that?

[Unnamed Guest]

What are eminent ends?

[David]

I.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, you know These are just gray shells. There's not a color in sight.

[David]

Look, I'll admit. Yes, I'm selling candy. That's not really why I came in here today.

[Griffin]

Okay, what's going on?

[David]

I need flowers. I no longer have the hookup. My family has completely divested.

[Griffin]

Oh, well. And I actually do have great news for you, cuz. All roses from 1-800-Flowers are picked at their peak, cared for every step of the way and ship fresh to ensure lasting beauty. The bouquet I got came fresh, sat on our table looking great for ages. Didn't like wilt after two days. Like some, you know, local sort of bodega flowers you might buy or whatever.

[Unnamed Guest]

Comes with a little packet.

[Griffin]

Little packet to sort of spruce them up and make them alive.

[David]

Gosh. Because this is a stressful time of year for me. You know, Valentine's Day is really rough on Dan Candyman.

[Griffin]

I don't.

[David]

Because I'm part of a very large polygon ridicule. I have to get a lot of flowers.

[Griffin]

I hate all your lore.

[David]

I think it's interesting and people are going to be excited.

[Griffin]

Well, you better get on it because bouquets are selling fast. Lock in your today. And of course, if you do order a dozen roses, they'll double the rose bouquet for free. That's a great value. To claim your double roses offer, go to 1-800flowers.com check. That's 1,800flowers.com check to get your double your your roses offer. 100 flowers, check.

[David]

Now that sounds great, but I have to admit my many, many partners have some pretty specific tastes. Double roses sounds nice, but by any chance does 1-800-Flowers offer kaleidoscope roses, hand dyed 24 stems in a purple vase with wind chime included? I'm looking it up. Okay, they do have it. Great. What a great product. Would you like to buy 1m?

[Griffin]

Sure. Fine. Give me an M. There you go. Thanks.

[David]

I'll be $25.

[Griffin]

Wait a sec.

[David]

I have to raise money.

[Griffin]

1-800-Followers comm slash check.

[David]

David?

[Griffin]

Yes?

[David]

If I know one thing about you, okay, it's that you're tired of figuring out what's for dinner every night after night. Especially on those busy weekdays when you walk into the studio every day and you go, I'm so tired. I go, don't even finish the sentence. I know the one root cause of that problem.

[Griffin]

Busy weekday. I just had it. Busy weekdays.

[David]

No, I'm saying it's you trying to decide what to make for dinner night after night.

[Griffin]

Busy weekdays. How do you make My weekdays less busy.

[David]

These issues are linked. I go, how are the twins? Sleeping? You go, great. No problem there. I'm joking. Sleeping through the night. Yes.

[Griffin]

I have to feed my family.

[David]

You have more mouths to.

[Griffin]

And that is true. Although they just eat. They don't eat lovely meals. But I have to make lovely meal and I get home and my time limit is. My time window is limited. And it is hard to just kind of, you know, find a magic recipe in the fridge every single day.

[David]

What a compelling personal.

[Griffin]

It.

[David]

It is sort of experience this is. Yeah.

[Griffin]

I mean, if you really want to get into it, basically like it's 5:30. Right. Dinner's got to kind of be on the table because everyone's going to bed around seven.

[David]

Right. Podcasting has ended 15 minutes before that.

[Griffin]

That's.

[David]

That is why be honest.

[Griffin]

Anyone who listens to the show might notice that I am a little. But look, it's easy to find time to eat well because you can get 50 wholesome, hassle free meals to choose from every week to get delivered right to your door. These HelloFresh ready made meals that go from fridge to fork.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

In just three minutes. One, two, three minutes.

[David]

That's the journey. I like fridge to fork work.

[Griffin]

It's the same high quality ingredients in restaurant or the flavor you expect from HelloFresh, but none of the work. Okay, so it's not like I hate this stuff you're talking about. You know, they give you all these pre packaged ingredients. You make a meal that's fun. These things come together with minimal mess and just a five minutes of prep. Your oven does most of the work, not you.

[David]

But this is what's nice about HelloFresh is they got a lot of variety. There's a lot of adjustment you can make on your end as the customer to serve your own needs. So as you're saying, you got two twins now that don't eat real food, but sooner rather than later. They will.

[Griffin]

They will.

[David]

And you can adjust your order 100%. Fit a family of five rather than a family of three.

[Griffin]

Yeah. You can get up to 10 free meals and a free high protein item for [e-mail]. check 10 FM. That's Check 10 FM.

[David]

That's interesting. That's interesting code. We've never gotten that code.

[Griffin]

No, that's why I'm repeating it.

[David]

Hey. And Green Chef is now owned by HelloFresh. So with a wider array of meal plans to choose from, there's something for everyone. I personally love switching between the brands because I'm verse. And now my listeners can enjoy both brands at a discount with us.

[Griffin]

One item per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's up to 10 free HelloFresh meals. Just go to hellofresh.com/check10fm. It's HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. We're about 15 minutes into the show and 45 minute more than that.

[Ben]

And looking at the lyrics to that song, it does feel like a very. I mean, I'm sure this is true of a lot of. But I mean, you dig in places till your fingers bleed, spread the infection where you spill your seed. Does feel like a lyric that you could put over the images of the woodsman, like digging through Mr. C's stomach.

[Griffin]

Now, who do you think the woodsman represent or what the woodsman represents?

[David]

I need you to start unpacking all of this, too.

[Griffin]

They're such a big part of Twin the Return. But of course, they're in Fire Walk With Me in this sort of kind of goofier way where they're like guys in flannel. They're in the Missing Pieces. Jurgen Prochenow, I always like to shout out, is in, like, one shot with a giant fake beard as one of the Woodsmen. I'll show you.

[David]

He's also in one shot of the theatrical, is he not? I believe so, yeah.

[Ben]

I would say, like, the first indication when you have season one of Twin Peaks, the first sort of indications of the supernatural things that will immediately start happening in season two, is them talking about there's, like, something in the woods. There's like. It's this. You know, Cooper's talking about how fascinated he is.

[David]

These.

[Ben]

What are these trees and all the shots of the woods and everything. But when the. When, like, Sheriff Truman and Big Ed start talking to him about how there's something in these woods, I feel like the woodsmen are just the natural way of. Like, it's either that or you'd have the trees come to life, you know, like just a way of representing. I don't know what they want. I don't know what their goals are, what their aims are. I don't know whose side they're on. I tend to think they're bad.

[Griffin]

Well, they seem to, mostly. I mean, they're very malevolent in this episode. They generally are in the convenience store and all these sorts of, like, liminal spaces that we see over the course of the show, which are, you know, dark places.

[Ben]

We see that one Lodge a few cells away from Matthew Lillard in the second episode. And one sitting there, and then he just floats away. There's a lot of stuff where I'm just like, I like this. I don't know what it means, but I like the feeling I get. I'm always excited when they show up.

[Griffin]

But what we're seeing. So Mark Frost has said that the sort of origin of so much of the, whatever, mythology of Twin Peaks comes from the detonation of the first nuclear bomb. Right. That's what the episode eight is about. And I think it annoys some fans in a way to be so direct about it. Right. Like to be like, almost. It's not a basic observation that, like, some new, unnatural kind of evil, like, was created that day, but it is.

[Ben]

I think the woods.

[Griffin]

I think the woods still feels profound to me.

[Ben]

The Woodsman and the Black Lodge and the White Lodge and all this stuff feels older than that.

[Griffin]

They've been around in some form, right?

[Ben]

Yeah. But Bob, this guy dressed in denim, long hair.

[David]

Sure.

[Connor]

Like, he's new, but is some of this.

[David]

I'm going to just. I'm going to ask dumb questions because you guys have been thinking on these things for years, if not decades, and I'm new to all of this. Right.

[Griffin]

The next shot, to be clear, after Mr. C wakes up is the slow motion shot of the nuke going off.

[David]

The Trinity test is the feeling that something like the nuclear bomb. Right. This man made evil somehow collapsed this wall between, as you're saying, these sort of ancient spiritual forces and the tangible reality that. That's sort of like the thing that started to curse Twin Peaks is the. The demolishing of that barrier.

[Ben]

Yeah. And we see.

[Connor]

We literally see this floating, weird creature.

[Ben]

Barf up a bunch of stuff. And one of the bubbles has Bob in it.

[Griffin]

Yes. This sort of odd creature, which is maybe Judy, right. Is sort of like. Right. This sort of. This entity that gets brought up a lot in Twin Peaks lore.

[Connor]

I will say that, like, the. This stuff is all more fun to.

[Ben]

Watch and experience than it is to talk about.

[Griffin]

I agree. Some people got mad at me for saying that last week, though. And I do want to say, you know, acknowledge that, yes, some people love to delve into this lore in a deeper way. And that's fine.

[Ben]

It all sounds kind of stupid when talked about. And I think one of the things that's like. Like Twin Peaks, you know, it's this thing where they're great at setting up questions and I think generally terrible at answering those questions. I think one of the things that's so great about episode eight is that it actually probably provides more tangible answers than any other episode of Twin Peaks.

[Griffin]

That's what's kind of bewildering about it.

[David]

It's the weirdest version of an explainer episode in its form.

[Ben]

Yeah. Because basically, if you wanted to give the TV Guide spoiler summary of the thing, you'd say, a nuclear bomb unleashes Bob into the world. Then the giant or the fireman or whatever he's called now. And I want to get her name right because it's such a great character name. Senorita Dito or Dido. Senorito Dido.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Ben]

And the giant basically create the spirit of Laura Palmer as a counterbalance to the evil of Bob. And then young Sarah Palmer.

[Connor]

When the.

[Ben]

Woodsmen knock everybody in her hometown out, this winged frog creature.

[Connor]

Weird.

[Ben]

Climbs into her body.

[David]

Grasshopper frog.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Connor]

And so it's like this origin story.

[Ben]

Of, like, Judy or Jaude and Bob and Laura and all these things are all created in this crazy.

[Connor]

But I also like. What I enjoy about the episode is not any of the things that, like.

[Ben]

I like that Sarah Palmer isn't identified as Sarah Palmer in the episode.

[David]

Yeah, I did not get that. I'm getting this now.

[Griffin]

It's something you kind of.

[Connor]

It's something that Marks confirms in one of the books that comes along with it. And it's a thing that occurred to me when I watched it, but she's just called Young Girl, and it's more fun to wonder than it is to have it.

[Ben]

Yes, that's definitely her.

[Griffin]

And you know the boy is Blue Beetle, right?

[David]

The boy is Blue Beetle. You're saying it's the actor who plays Blue Beetle or. This is David lynch entering the D.C. cinematic Extended Universe.

[Ben]

The boy is Blue Beetle. Bring gaff in for a gaff take.

[Griffin]

You know the girl.

[David]

His uncle is George Lopez in a winning supporting term.

[Griffin]

Very fun. No, no, you know, we. We. You know, we. Not to jump ahead, but just to jump ahead. We see this girl in Los Alamos go on a date with a boy.

[David]

From her school who is Blob Blue Beetle.

[Griffin]

And that actor is the kid who plays Blue Beetle. Anyway, no, first we see this, right? This imagery of the bomb for minutes. It's so cool.

[David]

I mean.

[Griffin]

Yeah, there's like crazy visual show of fire and static.

[Ben]

That's just computer animation, right?

[Griffin]

I mean.

[Ben]

Yeah. Why does that shot look so good?

[Griffin]

It looks incredible. I don't know.

[Ben]

Why is it.

[David]

Is it computer animation? Do we know that for a fact.

[Griffin]

I don't fucking know. Don't ask me, David.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, what would it be otherwise?

[Griffin]

Yeah. You mean like, is it a bomb they set off, like.

[David]

I don't know, like, Chris Rola made such a big deal of, like, I'm doing this all in camera. Right?

[Griffin]

He did, but I mean.

[Ben]

And I certainly think he lied.

[David]

He lied.

[Ben]

He lied and people died.

[David]

Well.

[Ben]

And now. I'm not saying there's a connection. It's just that since Christopher Nolan told.

[David]

Those lies, saying there are human beings.

[Ben]

Since then Chris Nolan lied and people died.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Causality is not.

[David]

You can look it up. There are people who died the day after Oppenheimer was released in theaters. It's just a fact.

[Ben]

It's just a fact.

[David]

It's just.

[Ben]

It wasn't all practical.

[David]

We're not drawing any connections. No, I'm just saying, especially some of these, like, the ensuing shots where you're seeing just sort of like particle matter and things like that. I could imagine some of that being practical, but I also could believe it's digital. I don't know.

[Griffin]

I don't.

[Ben]

I don't. I. Part of me doesn't ever want to know how they did it. I just. When I look at that shot, I can't believe what I'm looking at. It's so hypnotic. It's always more. No matter how many times I watch that shot, it's always more impressive even than I remember it being. Each time I feel like I experience it anew. It is in a career full of really, really powerful imagery. I feel like the part of David lynch that's like, I'm a painter, but I want to use cinema as my way of making these paintings. I feel like that shot is one of his just. It's just such an unprecedented masterpiece in his body of work. Like, this whole episode is like a greatest. It is just like if you had watched the first seven episodes and thought, you know, some people were like. They watched and like, it's not like the old Twin Peaks.

[Griffin]

It is cg. You can. I'm looking right now. Yeah, at the visual effects house. Buf has a big page on all the work they did on this episode.

[David]

You're right that it does look incredible.

[Griffin]

I also think it's 11 minutes of full CG. They said.

[David]

They said that sound. That was visceral. Connor, whatever just happened to you, it's.

[Ben]

Also funny to think of that shot and. And you haven't watched, I assume, any of the. There's a really long, like, behind the scenes documentary about the making of the Return. Griffin.

[David]

I got. I got the big box here. I will be watching it. I've been avoiding it because I don't want to get spoiled on things I haven't gotten to in the series.

[Ben]

Well, there's a. There's a sequence where he gets really mad and it has to do with his. There's a lot of times where something will have to be made out of, like, paper mache or something.

[Connor]

And lynch will be just personally, like, stirring something in a bucket and they.

[Ben]

Have the wrong stuff for him. He's like, God damn it.

[Connor]

He's, like, so angry.

[David]

That's like the story of him being so frustrated that he wanted to do all the makeup for Elephant man himself. And they were like, david, this is a Paramount movie. You can't be like, in the makeup, like, trailer applying shit to John Hurt for hours every day. And he's like, I can figure it out.

[Griffin]

Lots of imagery that is wonderful, like inside the bomb.

[David]

Sorry, I just want to unpack this for a moment. I love the Trinity test sequence in Oppenheimer, right?

[Griffin]

Yes. I mean, yes.

[David]

And I love, like, that it was done practically just as like a sort of antidote to what we're used to of how these things look. A criticism I have heard about that sequence from people is like, what is happening when an atomic bomb goes off is so much more complicated and terrifying than any usual explosion. Right. That is the underlying enormity of what this weapon was and why it was so scary. And the Trinity test is a little bit more of just like, what's an incredible way to depict an explosion on screen. I feel like this granular digital thing that lynch is getting at somehow evokes more of the, like, matter is being, like, pulled apart 100 kind of thing.

[Griffin]

I love the Trinity test sequence in Auburn Hog. Not for the explosion itself, which is honestly just fine. And he only uses it sparsely. It's all about the build up and the characters and how. And, you know how tense they are about it. And, you know, that's what's so cool about it. And the way the flash is done is cool.

[David]

I'm just saying the fireball itself kind.

[Griffin]

Of looks just okay because Nolan, I think, was really trying great. But yeah, to write, do it practically.

[David]

Like lynch, who you don't think of as a CGI heavy filmmaker, is able to capture some sort of thing of like, the terror of this, which is like, as much as it is, like, sort of hypnotizing and to a certain degree, beautiful imagery. You're also like. There's something really scary about just like, watching the particles for this long and thinking about what is producing them.

[Griffin]

The.

[Unnamed Guest]

The lighting of it, the flashing and the. The, like. It gets dark and then there's like a flash color. And you're. You're feeling like you don't even know physically where the camera is. It's like in this cloud, the storm.

[David]

When you, like, read the accounts of the folks who were working at Los Alamos, they talk about it that way, where they were just like. It was incomprehensible what we were witnessing. Like colors you can't explain. Like, time slowing down. Like, you know, it's. It's what's horrifying about this existing as a technology.

[Ben]

I wonder how aware lynch was of. Because I have to feel on some levels completely deliberate that in the first seven episodes of this, some of the digital effects are so crude that they're just not even pretending they're anything other than computer effects. It's just. There's no pretense of it. You're in the Black Lodge and it isn't. It doesn't look like the Black Lodge from the ABC television version. It's a different, more digitally looking thing that in some ways it's setting you up that when this happens, your mind won't be able to process how good it looks.

[David]

That's what happens to me. Yeah. Because I also, like, look, I didn't think he set off an actual atomic bomb for the sake of filming episode 8 of his television show. Right.

[Griffin]

He didn't do that.

[David]

But I was watching it because he's established a language of when there are effects, they purposefully look very unnatural. That to see the realism of this, I was like, was he compositing practical elements together? Did he film some weird faked version of explosion composite into a background to hear that? It's all cg. Your brain does kind of. I. I think what you're saying, like, it doesn't know how to process it.

[Unnamed Guest]

What's the sound too that's being played?

[Griffin]

Oh, it's just me going, is that what it is? There is a.

[David]

Wait, there's a. David, that's a conflict of interest. You didn't disclose that you want worked on this episode going, there's a piece.

[Griffin]

Of music playing during the test that is the. I want to get this right. Threnody to the victims of Hiroshima, which is a piece of classical music that was composed in reflection on the bombing of Hiroshima years later. So that's obviously. But Then it's also crazy lynch sound effects are playing. Then we see the convenience store, which is this sort of Black Lodge esque. Maybe even sort of a scarier place than the Black Lodge. Right?

[Ben]

I'd rather go to the Black Lodge than to that.

[Griffin]

I feel like there's this implication that that's where really bad shit goes down in the arm or characters like that sort of shuttle between. But you go to the convenience store for. For some sort of nasty stuff. Because when you see it in Fire Walk with Me, it's also where kind of bad transactions are happening.

[Ben]

Black Lodge is scary and unpredictable, but it's clean.

[Griffin]

It's clean. It's.

[Ben]

There's some art.

[Griffin]

Fancy.

[Unnamed Guest]

Wait, so we've been to the convenience store and. And in the past, in Firewalk With.

[Ben]

Me only is it future or is it past or.

[Unnamed Guest]

Sorry, it's appeared on the show, but.

[Ben]

It looked like you would be forgiven for not realizing that what we've seen before is that because we haven't seen the outside of the convenience store before.

[David]

It was only inside.

[Ben]

It was Firewall with me when it's like a room full of Bob and the man from another place and there's.

[Griffin]

Like people dancing around.

[Ben]

And that guy with the weird. With the weird long nose. Yeah, that's upstairs in the convenience store, which Mike. The one our man used to talk about is upstairs. I believe it was Convenience store. Okay.

[Griffin]

But when we see it here, it's the awesome David Lynchy black and white, like, stutter step. You know, what's been going around like Beatles. But it's all like sort of flashing.

[Unnamed Guest]

Goes on for a while and.

[Ben]

And we have basically a period of this segment. I can't, can't keep. I can never keep straight the order of some of these things.

[Griffin]

I've got the. I'm watching it. I'm sort of going in sequence just to remember exactly this.

[Ben]

There is a sequence where essentially you're like, oh, we're watching something that is 2001 A Space Odyssey for television.

[Griffin]

I think that's exactly right. You're watching an abstract depiction of the sort of like development of some new kind of malevolence. Right? Like, you know, that's what you know. And these guys are these busy little evil worker bees around this kind of like post war symbol, the convenience store. Right. Like, you know, it looks like an old gas station from the 50s kind of. And it's just like. Right. It's like that's. That's how I'm taking all of this.

[David]

But let's also say, like, 2001. It's coming after two hours of more conventional narrative storytelling in a movie. More conventional. Right. And then throughout that abstract expressionist sequence, you're cutting back to cure Delaya. Like, they are recentering you in. Like, this is what this character you have been through is experiencing. This has no grounding viewpoint in that way, particularly, he's making you the audience member.

[Connor]

And no precedent in the series or world of Twin Peaks. Like, we've seen Twin Peaks in multiple forms, and this is the first time we've ever been. Just sounds and. And shapes.

[Griffin]

Then we see, yes, this kind of figure, which the experiment is how it's referred to, but it's this kind of feminine, blobby body floating in space and makes this kind of weird chain of vomit. And Bob's head emerges from that.

[Ben]

And it's another thing where, if you. I remember back to both moments when I was watching it for the first time, tired, in a hotel room with all the lights out, just watching the screen, that when you're seeing Bob, you could easily miss what you're seeing. It's not like it's subtle the way he does this.

[Griffin]

It is. You have to kind of focus on this brief image that kind of swishes by you. And then we see this sort of golden imagery and a golden blob. Sort of a nicer vibe, one might think. Again, this is why I'm kind of like, it's so funny that Twin Peaks can be thought about so deeply. But then also, David lynch is like, yeah, there's the. The golden people. That's the nice people.

[David]

Good blob versus bad blob.

[Griffin]

The angels are coming.

[Ben]

Spray. Gas up with the gold hair. Spray paint and makeup for a golden gas.

[David]

I want a golden gas.

[Ben]

You've got just so we have it.

[Griffin]

And then we're on the purple sea, which is this. We've seen this image before a little bit.

[David]

When have we seen this?

[Ben]

Episode three.

[Griffin]

Yeah, when. When.

[Ben]

Part three.

[Griffin]

When Cooper was kind of moving his way through, you know, from the Black Lodge.

[Ben]

Fell out of the Black Lodge, landed in that little box in New York City.

[David]

So is it. Post the box.

[Ben]

Post the box.

[Griffin]

You know, he goes. And he.

[Ben]

Tiny Cooper falls down a little thing and then he's in that little room where something's trying to get in.

[Griffin]

And there's Briggs's floating head and all that stuff, you know, that all. We've.

[David]

All.

[Griffin]

We've seen a little bit of that. We're back there.

[Ben]

Question is, it's been a long Time since I saw Dune. You guys saw him refresh. Are there purple sea parts? Is that Dune?

[Griffin]

Yeah, it's Dune.

[Ben]

Okay.

[Griffin]

The worm floats by.

[David]

That's the planet Dune.

[Ben]

I just wasn't sure.

[David]

No, no. Great question, Freddy Jones. Is there a good answer for you? Cat in a box.

[Griffin]

And so there's this castle atop the purple sea, and that's where the giant lives.

[Connor]

You are right.

[Griffin]

I don't know how else to describe this.

[Ben]

There's a castle on the purple sea where the giant lives.

[Griffin]

And there's also this woman, Senorita Daido, who we only see in this episode, played by Joy Nash, who's sitting there as well.

[Connor]

She's sitting on the couch.

[Ben]

They have a sofa in this castle.

[David]

It looks comfy in there.

[Griffin]

It looks very cool. It's an awesome piece.

[Unnamed Guest]

Beautifully designed.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Unnamed Guest]

It has a 50s kind of aesthetic, would we say? Or maybe even an older aesthetic.

[Griffin]

Sort of. This steamy thing is going on too. Like, there's a phonograph. There's the big kettle thing. There's a lot of clanking. And the fireman, or the giant or whatever you want to call him, is there. Played by Carol. Credited old him.

[Ben]

Credited as a series of question marks.

[Griffin]

Credited as like 8 question marks.

[Ben]

Even. Even David lynch and Mark Frost were like, we don't know what the this is. You've got me. Seems weird. We couldn't figure out what he was. We know that they live in a castle on the purple sea. We don't know who this guy is. This fella wish he tell us.

[Griffin]

His face, it's so different from him in, you know, the TV show, in the ABC show, like that. He's so old and he's kind of drawn.

[David]

You're talking about Carol stricken.

[Ben]

He and Mike, I think, both have that thing that, you know, there was. Every few years there'd be one of those apps that shows up that everyone starts having fun with, where it's like, oh, here's how I look from old. You type in your email and it shows you what you look like in a painting.

[Griffin]

Right. Just type in your Social Security number.

[David]

Right here, by the way, for training AI.

[Ben]

It's fun for three days. Then someone's like, don't do this. They're scraping your account and using all this. And I did one of those and I didn't post it. I tried like five different paintings. Put me in a painting. They all had my face. Basically, do what happened to Mike and the giant, which is that something sort of you get older and your face sort of like. No, it kind of deteriorates in a way that makes me a little sad. And so none of mine were postable because they were all kind of like, oh, no. And it was consistent enough that I'm like, they know something. Because everyone else was having fun looking paintings and my face just like caved.

[David]

Yeah, but Connor, that's unnecessary to use that program. We all know if we want to see a picture of what you look like as an old man, we can just pull up the weekend's Dawn FM album cover that inexplicably looks identical to Connor in 40 years.

[Connor]

Now it looks like me.

[David]

Now, look.

[Griffin]

I know, I know.

[Ben]

It looks like me sprayed up as George Lucas.

[David]

It looks like if you continued spraying up until you hit George's real age, I don't think the weekend looks like you under any other circumstances.

[Unnamed Guest]

I can see it.

[David]

That covers identical, is it not?

[Griffin]

These two characters essentially watch what we just watched.

[Ben]

Yes.

[Griffin]

They, like literally play a movie.

[Ben]

That is the other thing that I was like, blown. I remember being blown away by at like 2:30 in the morning, whatever that I'm like, they just showed something that I kind of can't believe got made it to television.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Connor]

And then we watch a scene where other characters watch.

[Griffin]

That looks like Bob's face. Can you freeze on that?

[David]

You know, and the giant is like, I'm supposed to recap this for AV Club. How do I fucking synopsize this?

[Griffin]

Well, he synopsizes it by basically like kind of dreaming a golden cloud over his head. He sort of levitates and like a mist emerges from him and that basically turns into Laura Palmer. A Laura Palmer globe. And it is like. It's some real Captain Planet shit. It's like, you know, okay, like, go, go fight Bob.

[Ben]

Yeah, right. Which it's, you know, it doesn't really. Like, it's hard for me to think about these things and try to unpack the logic of it because it feels like in the fight versus of like good versus evil, it seems like an unfair fight that it's like we're gonna create an innocent who's so good, but she's gonna have to be the victim of all of this terrible abuse. And that's the fight that they're arranging. Why not create a big bear that can fight Bob?

[Griffin]

That would be cool if they created a big bear.

[Ben]

Just instead it's like, how about we create this child and we'll have them be abused?

[Griffin]

If you think about it, that literally it's very upsetting and maybe that we.

[Ben]

Should have think Big Bear.

[Griffin]

Maybe we should think about it. That literally. Or maybe it's kind of like, right, we'll imbue one of his, you know, victims with this, you know, compelling power. Or. Or just, I don't know. I mean, how do you want to think about it? It's just like, there will be light in counter to the darkness.

[Ben]

It's. It's interesting because if you think back to what it felt like to watch the first episode of Twin Peaks, when Laura Palmer's body washes up on the shore and they're like, oh, my God, Laura. And the people of the town are so upset by it. The idea that there'd be any character in the universe of this story, that's like, it's all part of our plan. We're going to fight Bob this way. This is how we fight Bob.

[Griffin]

Well, it's also like the image of her in the Globe is literally her prom photo. Right? The sort of iconic image of Twin Peaks is the. And, like, when you think about the pilot where it's like, hey, Cheryl Lee, play this murder victim. You're going to get wrapped in plastic. You'll do that.

[Ben]

We'll take a prom photo and then.

[Griffin]

We'Re going to do like, you know, like five minutes of sort of video footage of you dancing around with Lar Flamboral.

[David]

That's all we're hiring you to do. You have no dialogue.

[Ben]

You're a day player. You're a day player.

[Griffin]

There's a world where they're like, okay, thanks. Like, that's all we need from you.

[David]

Not only you're a day player, but, like, most of your job is doing an accompanying photo shoot and basically being a piece of art, design, and then obviously, like, production design.

[Griffin]

Instead, the show, you know, becomes like, you know, immediately. Lynch is like, this actor is so interesting. And, like, we're gonna use her all over the place. But for, like, the. The Twin Peaks, the return to be like, yes, Laura Palmer is the fucking iron man to Bob Thanos. I mean, that's not what the show is doing, to be clear, but there is something just crazy about them shooting her face in a golden tube towards a, like, image of planet Earth. Even if it's kind of a big tuba.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Like, it does feel very childlike.

[Ben]

Even if you think back to the giant at the beginning of season two. Imagine that there was a scene that they shot. Just so we have it, Gether was standing as a little giant next to him, and a scene where the giant.

[Connor]

Says, I made Laura to fight Bob and Cooper's just lying in bed like, what? What's going on?

[David]

But also, am I wrong in feeling like every single second of footage we have ever seen of Laura Palmer as a character is when she is already kind of like collapsing inside? Right, right. Like, we never see dramatized, you know, this is like, a character who's, like, been like, the receptacle for all of, like, the darkness of the world. And I feel like more than it being like Laura, we're imbuing her with the power to fight Bob. There's something in the fact that when Laura dies, it feels like that was the last thing holding reality together. It's what makes everyone in the town spiral so fully out of control. Right. Is like, it goes beyond this, sort of like, oh, my God. Whoever thought this could happen in a small town? The more conventional version of Twin Peaks, which is just a weird, inexplicable murder happens and something that feels more spiritual and existential of, like some barrier.

[Ben]

Yeah. I mean, episode eight essentially finally pays off. We finally learn that Jean Reno was wrong. When he attributed what went wrong to.

[Connor]

Agent Cooper, he come to town.

[Ben]

Pretty girl, die.

[Connor]

Agent Cooper, come to town. Suddenly, Twin Peaks is not so good a place.

[Ben]

So, like, episode eight, finally, it's like we've tied up the Jean Reno plotline from season two.

[Griffin]

Thank God they.

[Ben]

Turns out he was. Turns out he was wrong. It wasn't Cooper's fault.

[Griffin]

Right. Instead, it was like a gramophone made Laura's face and shot it at a tube.

[Ben]

They probably did another take where it's like, let's not go with this one. Let's shoot it just so we have it of Jean Reno explaining a giant.

[Connor]

Probably shoots her out of a tube. A pretty girl shoot a tube to.

[Griffin]

A little tiny wind planet Earth.

[Connor]

Senorita Daido maybe is a, I don't know, Zebig bomb. It's just a theory. Maybe not.

[Griffin]

If this episode has, like, four or five acts.

[Ben]

Right?

[Griffin]

So, like five for act one, the prologue is Mr. C. Mr. C. And then we have the atom bomb. Then we have Nine Inch Nails, Then we have the atom bomb sequence. And then we have what we just saw, this sort of the two globes.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

We have the origin of Bob, the.

[Griffin]

Origin of Laura, and then the final 15 minutes, the sort of final act of it is like, okay, we're pulling out of total dream fantasy imagery. We're now in New Mexico in 1956, in the desert, and a strange creature has hatched from a little egg. And we're Going to. It's still black and white, so we're still sort of in the aesthetic of this specific episode. But it's a girl and a boy, a teenage girl and a teenage boy, like, talking to each other. And we're back to something a little more human.

[Unnamed Guest]

I mean, he's telling her how he.

[David]

Got this beetle that gives him powers. It's like a suit of armor, but it's intelligent heritage, all that stuff. It's a spiritual and technology.

[Griffin]

It's a frog moth.

[David]

I read it as a grasshopper.

[Griffin]

It looks like a big bug.

[David]

It's got the long kind of body thing.

[Griffin]

Yeah, but it's large. Yeah, quite large. But it has kind of froggy back.

[David]

No, I'm saying a grasshopper frog rather than a frog moth.

[Griffin]

Oh, sure, sure, sure. Okay. Yeah, that's fine.

[David]

Right? Yep.

[Ben]

And there is, I believe, in the Twin Peaks Access guide book that came out back around season two.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[Ben]

There is a section that someone found when this episode came out that was like, is this what this thing was? And.

[Griffin]

Oh, yeah, here it is.

[Ben]

Did you see it?

[Griffin]

Yeah, that. It's. There's some sort of legend, like. Sort of Native American legend of mythological. A mythological kind of frog creature.

[Ben]

Yeah. You're looking at the same, like, Reddit post or whatever where they have that screenshot frog moths.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Well, well, well, Ben.

[Griffin]

How the frog moth has turned. Or maybe these images just rattle around in their heads and they use them in new ways.

[Ben]

Maybe this. This show is just so carefully plotted and tightly planned that we should not doubt them. They know what they're doing in season two.

[Griffin]

Lynch was like, I'm done with that shit.

[Ben]

This isn't some Vince Gilligan thing where we paint ourselves into a corner and then try to figure out how to get Walt and Jesse out of it.

[David]

I don't need to explain the teddy bear.

[Ben]

Look at the episode titles.

[David]

David.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

That's got to hurt. That's a quip. That's a quip that people make. Or like, do not go in there. That's like another quip. But if they're saying that's gotta hurt, maybe they're saying it about root canals. And if they're saying do not go in there, maybe they're saying it about a mouth with a bunch of plaque build up. My point here is if you want to avoid being the subject of quips like that, maybe you should use our sponsor today quip.

[Griffin]

Yeah. So why don't you get yourself quip360? It's an oscillating Toothbrush, Griffin, that's literally going to revolve around you.

[David]

That's what I like.

[Griffin]

I've been using quip for a long time, but the 360 is the, you know, you know, the kind of like round brush.

[David]

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the whole thing with quip, it's an electric toothbrush that doesn't overcomplicate the most basic daily ritual. I feel like quip just exists to.

[Griffin]

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[David]

It's fine. It's, it's easy to travel with, it is convenient, it's easy to clean. And if you do love it, you can brush easy knowing you get a free lifetime warranty for purchasing on Getquip. That's Q U I P.com and the opportunity to subscribe to refill heads by mail every three months. So you never have to go to the store. This is a part I like. That's the kind of thing I forget.

[Griffin]

You don't have to go to the store. It just happens. They just send it.

[David]

It shows up and you go, oh, right.

[Griffin]

I get a bunch of quick stuff sent to me every, you know, a few months. It's really, really helpful. They've got 25000 five star reviews and, you know, people love quip and they.

[David]

Got a perks program. You know, I love perks programs.

[Griffin]

You do love perks.

[David]

Quip perks, Quip quips, Quip puts. Quip Perks is a little hard to say. I'm gonna say that's just for me. Quip puts their money where their mouth is. When you subscribe to auto ship, you'll be enrolled in quip perks to earn credit back over time.

[Griffin]

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[David]

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[Griffin]

Getquip quip.com quip quit.

[Ben]

What's the best time of day to get a deal? All day with jack in the box's all day.

[Griffin]

Big deal.

[David]

Meal. You get to choose from four entrees like the supreme croissant and five tasty sides, plus a drink starting at $5. So hurry in or take your time. You've got all day at Jack.

[Griffin]

Every bite's a big deal. There's. After this brief interlude with the boy and the girl, there's this sequence I would describe as a little spooky where one of the woodsmen approaches a couple driving in a car and asks if they've got a light.

[David]

It is unnerving to like cut to a couple, quote unquote, normal dialogue scenes between young people. You're just like, wait a second, I thought this wasn't going to go back to this kind of thing.

[Griffin]

It's Robert Broski. He looks like zombie Abraham Lincoln. He's an actor who, to be clear, almost every single credit in his IMDb is Abraham Lincoln really like. He is a well known Abraham Lincoln impersonator.

[Unnamed Guest]

I think he looks great.

[Griffin]

Yeah, he looks cool.

[Unnamed Guest]

What do we, what do we think? Just from a fashion standpoint, Great sooty, sooty flannel, good hat. I'm very like, cigarette. I think I shouldn't. Well, you know, except for that part. Should I start being sooty?

[Ben]

Try it.

[Griffin]

Your fiance might object to treading soot through the hall.

[David]

Dirty Ben 2025.

[Ben]

You won't know that. You won't know until you try it.

[David]

This is. You know what? Conor has a great attitude about this.

[Ben]

Try being sooty. And if it turns out to be a mistake, you can always course correct, be less sooty or not sooty at all.

[David]

Robert Brusky was in a 2014 short film called Link Clone in which he played Abraham Linclone, a clone of Abraham Lincoln. And he's got like Terminator eyes.

[Griffin]

Oh, that sounds. That sounds pretty good.

[David]

It sounds good as hell.

[Ben]

Down to watch it.

[Griffin]

Link Clone.

[David]

They clone Abel Lincoln's DNA and name the clone president for life. Except there's one problem. Colon. The clone is evil. It's five minutes long. That's a lot of plot for five.

[Griffin]

How many people are there in history?

[Ben]

But only one problem, though.

[David]

That's true. You can knock out one problem every.

[Griffin]

Five minutes that there's like no footage of.

[Ben]

We also, we know how to solve.

[Connor]

The problem of a Lincoln. If you think that Abraham Lincoln is.

[David]

A problem, you have to clear.

[Connor]

No, there's like, we have been provided with a clear. A clear solution.

[David]

You clone, John walks.

[Connor]

Booth, if you think Abraham Lincoln is the problem, this is not a how do you solve a problem like Maria situation.

[David]

What Is the solution, Connor, you shoot him dead. I think you have to clone John Wilk's Booth to shoot him dead, though.

[Connor]

Yeah, but the solution is still shooting him dead. Sure. If for some reason someone who's not a clone of John Wilkes Booth also shoots him death. Shoots him dead, Problem solved.

[David]

We don't know that, though. We don't have the data to prove that that's true.

[Connor]

It's a. It's too small a sample size. We've only got one Lincoln.

[David]

Historically, only one guy has been able to kill Abra.

[Connor]

Calling me out on my bad science.

[David]

You're welcome.

[Connor]

The sample size is far too small.

[David]

We don't know.

[Connor]

Now, I don't have the stomach to carry out this experiment because I like Lincoln's. And I don't think they're problems.

[Griffin]

I'm just. How many people are there that there isn't, like, film footage of that? You could be like, you know, who you look like is Abraham Lincoln. Like, you can pursue a career looking like Abraham.

[David]

That's a great question.

[Griffin]

You know what I mean?

[Ben]

If you commit to the beard, it's probably a lot more than we think.

[David]

Yeah, well, Santa Claus.

[Unnamed Guest]

I mean, people that look like Jesus Christ, I would.

[David]

That was the other one I was thinking of. But these are. I. You're right that those are more like kind of agreed upon advertising depictions of these figures. You know, there's like a constructed visual archetype versus Lincoln where we're like, we got a handful of photos of him. We got the basics, and if you got the bone structure and the height, you're set for life.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin]

So got a light? Kind of scary.

[Ben]

We never find out if they do.

[Griffin]

Nope, they drive away. They're not into it.

[Ben]

Rude.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I guess. You never do find out if they got.

[Ben]

Cause they have a light.

[Griffin]

We're back to the boy and the girl. He kisses her. It's all very like.

[Ben]

It kind of reminds. It kind of reminds me of. In the same way that a lot of Twin Peaks return, people have commented that it's not just a continuation of Twin Peaks, but in some ways it feels like it calls back to many things in Lynch's career. I always feel like the scenes where they're walking and talking remind me of the scenes of Kyle MacLachlan and Laura Dern walking in blue velvet. That sort of innocent conversation.

[Griffin]

Like, yeah, she's got the kind of. She looks like in that. Like, Laura Dern looks like she's from another decade. She's dressed in this kind of like, you know, old fashioned way and all that.

[Ben]

It's also amazing that this episode, if it ended before this sequence, it would have been this crazy, weird episode with all this weird stuff. This part is the part that makes it a truly amazingly impressive episode because it's like we have how many minutes left? How long is this last section?

[Griffin]

The last section's about 15 minutes long.

[Ben]

15 minutes. And it's like we're gonna give you a fully self contained narrative sort of.

[Griffin]

Love horror story, introduce new characters. It's like we're gonna give you this, right, this like budding, just hint of this budding teen romance. And this like monster attack on the town, I guess is the best way to put it.

[Ben]

It's almost like lynch, you could, you could imagine if it ended before the segment. You could imagine some people, if they didn't like it, dismissing it as well. This is a bunch of goofy garbage. It's a bunch of artsy weird shit. He's lost it as a filmmaker. This isn't cinema. This is just a bunch of what.

[David]

A lot of people said about him in the 90s. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

And this last segment is just, it's.

[Connor]

Just, it's not conventional filmmaking, but it is just like storytelling. I'm gonna make a black and white horror movie.

[Ben]

It's gonna have.

[Connor]

The pacing is perfect, it's creepy and hypnotic, but you get invested in the characters.

[Ben]

It's really just such. It's one of the best 15 minutes of his whole career.

[Griffin]

It is so cool and so scary. The woodsman, like walks into the dj, like into the radio booth. And it's perfect David lynch violence where it's like the only effect initially is that he's putting his hand on the receptionist's head and pushing her down. And all she's doing clearly is kneeling down, right? Like there's nothing else happening. And then you cut to the second, like close up of where the camera's shaking like crazy and buckets of blood are pouring over her head. And that's all you need is these two very. One is just nothing at all really. And the second is the most simple, over the top kind of violent effect without any real embellishment. Just lots of blood. It's not like we watch her head get crumpled. It's in your head that that's happening.

[Ben]

There's also a modern technique that I can only think of a few examples of it. But black and white with CGI digital special effects somehow look so impressive because I don't know if it's that my brain processes black and white as, like, how did they do these? Like, it processes black and white as old. And so when I see something that's CGI in color, I see it as like, oh, it's a computer effect. It's impressive, but I'm processing it as a computer effect sometimes.

[David]

I've said this many times. I think the trend of, like, actually, I always want to film in black and white, so I'm doing a black and white cut for the Blu Ray is largely kind of bullshit nonsense. The one I find entrancing is Fury Road for that reason, because that movie is constructed more like a silent film and is so CGI heavy, but a weird combination of CGI and practical. When you're watching these long, wordless stretches in black and white, it feels like, how did they make this in 1910?

[Connor]

It's also like the mist is kind of like that, where you have these CGI bugs that look like perfectly professional CGI special effects, but in black and white. You're like, how on Earth did 1940s filmmaker Frank Darabont make.

[David]

Well, yes, it makes the mist feel like a Twilight Zone episode.

[Connor]

Yeah.

[David]

I do think the Godzilla, like, minus one, minus color thing, while interesting, doesn't really work because you're just like, I know what a Godzilla movie looked like in black and white. It was a guy in rubber.

[Griffin]

The woodsman kills the people in the radio station, and then he says, this is the water. This is the well. Drinkful and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes and dark within. He says it a lot, just in case you didn't get it. I do feel like, again, not to overanalyze because I really think you can do whatever you want. But the horse is the white of the eyes. Right? The white of the eyes don't see. The horse is this image that's in all of Twin Peaks. Sarah's always seeing the horse. And to me, it symbolizes very plainly, like, it's like just looking, not seeing what is happening. And that's what's like the Laura, you know, that's the story of Laura. It's like everyone's just kind of looking away or looking around what's happening to her. And that's what the horse means.

[Unnamed Guest]

But why is it making everyone fall asleep? Like, why is it so hypnotic?

[Ben]

Cause they need Sarah Palmer, young Sarah Palmer, to fall asleep so that the. The frogmoth can climb into her body. So basically, they have to do a chemical attack on the whole town to put everybody to sleep. Not a chemical attack, but a hypnotic Attack.

[David]

This is really just a lullaby being broadcast over the radio waves.

[Ben]

Yeah, Right. And they get the job done, which is that they put this frogmoth into young Sarah Palmer.

[Griffin]

They imbue her with whatever sort of second sight or connection to this other world.

[Unnamed Guest]

And the Woodsman is kind of in on it, but he's not playing aside.

[Ben]

Right.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah.

[Ben]

I feel like he's on the. I feel like he's. I feel like this benefits Bob.

[Unnamed Guest]

Well, isn't, though, the creature eventually going to lead to Bob's demise?

[Griffin]

No, I think Sarah is, you know, is sort of. I mean, I can't. I. I struggle with all this.

[Ben]

Oh, yes. Because Sarah's gonna. Sarah is gonna give birth to Laura.

[Unnamed Guest]

Palmer, sets up all of these.

[David]

Right.

[Ben]

So maybe the Woodsmen are neutral. Well, let's just make this a fair fight.

[Unnamed Guest]

That's what I'm kind of saying.

[Griffin]

Yeah, maybe. I. I just, like, they're like the referee, tough to think about sides because it's. Right.

[Ben]

This is not like the Woodsmen are basically like. This is a jump ball.

[David]

What's.

[Ben]

I don't play favorites.

[David]

What's your read on it, David?

[Griffin]

My. My read on it is what I said, like, is the. Is the white of the eyes thing or whatever, like. And is that Sarah is touched with this, like, awful darkness. And that's her character in Twin Peaks, this Grace Zabrisky's. Right. It's like, she's not. Well, she's not able to help her daughter. She is aware of things, like. Right. Like, she has visions, and so she has that connection to. And of course, we'll see her more in Twin Peaks of Return, and she's. Grace of Risky is having a lot of fun. You'll see. But, like, she's not really an ally to Laura.

[Ben]

Right.

[Griffin]

In any particular.

[David]

I mean, in a certain way, she has a superpower to not clock what's going on. Like, even just the conjuring of the images of the horse and whatever. It's like there are, like, complicated systems in place to keep her sort of distracted in a way. I. That's how a lot of people cope with. With trauma, how they get through.

[Griffin]

Exactly. I think that's right. If you just want to take the metaphor again. Right. It's like Sarah represents. Right.

[Ben]

The.

[Griffin]

The sin of a mission or whatever, you know, like, just, like, looking away and not. But it's also stopping the evil happening under her roof.

[David]

But it's a. In a certain way, it's a basic human survival impulse. Right. It's not like, oh, she's like, failing in her duty through some, like, shitty parenting in her core. It's like. It's hard to fucking look the horse in the eye.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

Yeah. And she, the human brain wants to reject it.

[Griffin]

The character we meet in Twin Peaks is sort of, you know, a really sad kind of rotted out character. Like by the time we're meeting her, like. And then in Twin Peaks the Return, have we seen her yet? Maybe not, but we will see her.

[Ben]

Sarah Palmer did.

[Griffin]

We saw her briefly.

[Ben]

We've seen her watching animals, like, eating each other on tv. And we see her. Her house is very depressing.

[Griffin]

Her house is very frightening. And we. But we'll see her later more. And like, I feel like it's only gotten sort of worse with her at some point.

[Ben]

Counter theory. It could be that the frog moths and the woodsman are not connected. It's just a coincidence of timing. And the woodsman story could be as simple as that. One of them wants to be on the radio.

[Griffin]

Yeah, he just really wants to debut his plan.

[Ben]

He tries it out and he learns very quickly that he doesn't get along with the staff at the radio station. It's just not a good fit.

[David]

This is kind of his airheads moment.

[Connor]

Yeah, well, it's sort of.

[Ben]

This is where it ties in because you literally see on air. So I'm like, oh, this is a callback to on the Air, the Lynch Frost sitcom.

[David]

Sure, yeah.

[Ben]

Which, which we're going to cover in the, in the episodes we will not release. Even on the Patreon. Right. Just secret, secret episodes just for us.

[David]

Fifth tier. Yeah.

[Ben]

That we pay into. Just the four of us.

[David]

Sort of a blind trust. Yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

But on the air, he wants to be on the radio. He tries it out, he finds out, oh, the people of this town, they find him boring as heck.

[David]

And he got a really bad market share. That's the other thing. There's the scene that they cut out where the guy comes in and he's like, look, I got to just rip the bandit off. The ratings were not good and.

[Ben]

And then he just like, he walks out of the station and leaves. Dead air. There's no record playing and dead people. But the dead people would have been no problem if, if the, if the, if the ratings had been there, if.

[David]

The sponsors supported the show. The dead people could have. Yeah, we could have jumped over that.

[Unnamed Guest]

It is creepy to think, though, of tuning into your local radio station and this is the water and hearing that. But even just hearing nothing.

[Griffin]

Sure, that is creepy. Yeah, that's a creepy thought. You're right. Radio.

[Unnamed Guest]

I mean, in those days it had some kind of programming.

[Ben]

It was. It was so exciting when he started delivering that poem on the air. We're calling it a poem, right? I'm calling it a poem, sure.

[Unnamed Guest]

Slam. Slam entry.

[Griffin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

Guys, I'm gonna go read my poem on the radio. Okay. You guys want to hang around other parts of town while I wait for me?

[David]

If the zoo crew wants to stand by, I'll let them know when the interjections are allowed.

[Ben]

I'm going to do my water. Well, bomb on the radio.

[Griffin]

Now, Mark Frost says the idea for this episode, and he says it very plainly. It's like we'd never done anything close to what you would call an origin story for Twin Peaks, showing where this pervasive sense of darkness and evil had come from. So we just sort of wrote down a 15 page script. He said eventually. And he knew as they wrote it, the atomic bomb on the page is like half a page. And he's like, I know, that's 15 minutes. David will then just take that, do whatever he wants with it. And he said we wanted something that would stand apart and blow your mind. It's like, it's as simple as that.

[Ben]

Because half of this episode has no dialogue at all.

[Griffin]

Yeah, maybe more than half, probably. And even the stuff that has dialogue, it's pretty spare.

[Ben]

It's like five pages of this is the Water in the. As well. I was so excited when it got to the. This is the water and this is the well part, particularly because it felt like Twin Peaks, but it also was not like anything that had ever been on Twin Peaks before, you know, like that whole sequence is like, yes, this is like. It's not a callback. It's not like when you are in the Black Lodge. Again, like we've seen that. This is a completely new thing. And I can imagine a world in which a sequence like this. Let's imagine a world in which Twin Peaks runs for eight seasons on abc. It's very easy to imagine there'd be a point where there'd be a sequence where a woodsman walks into the modern day 90s Twin Peaks radio station. Then you cut to a sequence of Big Ed and the principal and all these people falling asleep. At this point it would have been like three months after the death of.

[Connor]

Laura Palmer or like, or six months.

[Ben]

I guess, with every episode being a day. But it felt so exciting to see something like that after an episode with so many different strange things. That had no precedent in any previous form of Twin Peaks. To get this little horror movie at the end and then to feel like, oh, and maybe this is Sarah Palmer, but it just says young girl. But I'm like, it lines up time wise.

[Griffin]

Timing wise. Exactly.

[Ben]

So it's like, it could be her, but it also could be that we don't know what this is about yet, you know?

[Griffin]

Yeah, I just think you can really do whatever you want with it. Like, I really support that. And if someone wants to send me a sort of wild out there take, I'd be intrigued, you know? But I do think Mark Frost, and he talks about Twin Peaks all the time, and then David lynch, whenever you get him to talk about it, would probably. Yeah, be upfront of like, yeah, no, but we kind of just wanted to do this kind of flashback origin thing. That's what we were going for. They wouldn't be like, yeah, it means. Which means what? It means, like, I don't know. You guys figure it out. They're like, no, no, no. We sat down and they were like, what's the origin of the evil here?

[Ben]

So on the one hand, it's the most baffling, inexplicable, artsy, abstract episode, and in another sense, it's like the most straightforward. Yeah, it's like. It actually would be harder to synopsize some of the other episodes that look like conventional storytelling, but it's like, Dougie Jones works for this office in Las Vegas, and you're like, wait, how is this saying? Like, well, no, no, because Dougie Jones is the body that, as a tulpa.

[Connor]

That Mr. C created. You know, you're just like.

[Ben]

That stuff is so much harder to.

[Griffin]

Summarize than when they created nuclear weapons that generated unspeakable evil.

[Ben]

And then, like, the sort of simplest idea, and then there's like, someplace that's kind of like heaven or something, where positive forces created some light to balance it. And then we go back and see Laura Palmer's mom as a little girl and how she got, like, infected by this monster at an early age.

[Griffin]

So there you go, Griff. Are you completely caught up?

[David]

Thank you for a perfect answer.

[Griffin]

No, I'm serious. Truly serious.

[Ben]

I feel like we can watch it.

[David]

I'm being serious.

[Ben]

I don't have time to goof around.

[David]

I'm not goofing. I'm deadly serious.

[Ben]

This is not Rift Tracks.

[David]

You know what it is, though.

[Griffin]

You could watch it again. It is Griff Tracks. And just, you know, the first time you watch the episode, you're just sort of bewildered because you don't. It doesn't sequentially follow what happens, and you're just sort of like, what's this now? What's this now? What's this now? But then the more times you watch, and I've watched this episode several times because it's fun to watch standalone, I.

[Ben]

Also had to keep starting and stopping that episode the first time I watched it because. Not because I fell asleep, because I was sleepy or bored.

[Griffin]

Right, right, right.

[Ben]

But because I kept getting sort of, like, hypnotized by it. And then I'd be like, I have to back. I have to back up. Yeah, I have to back up because I'm not sure what I just saw.

[David]

Well, so you'd been up all night the night before doing big sloppy naturals, of course, was an improv that were run on whippets. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

Seriously.

[Ben]

Where's Meyer?

[David]

Our good friend Murph Meyer? Oh, that's kind of his part eight. Right. Was big sloppy naturals. That was his ultimate.

[Ben]

David, don't say seriously when we're in the middle of. We've just established. We work so hard to establish how serious we are.

[David]

Yeah, we're trying to be serious here. Don't question the serious.

[Griffin]

We're being very serious.

[Ben]

It's so confusing to me. It's more confusing than episode eight for us to convey to Griff that we're being serious here.

[David]

Let's say seriously with a parent. Say seriously and not throw around our question marks. Willy. Willy.

[Ben]

Willy Wonka.

[David]

Let's not Willy Wonka our question marks. Let's not make them edible.

[Griffin]

Oh, of course. No, you don't want to do that.

[David]

Right.

[Ben]

Oh, by the way, I want to call it.

[Connor]

We're going to find out that Willy Wonka's middle name is Nilly in Wonka too. Because Nilly rhymes with a lot of stuff. Silly Billy.

[Griffin]

But that Willy.

[David]

Right, but won't.

[Connor]

Won't he.

[David]

But you want to put your chips down on Nelly being the middle name. As you just said, there are a lot of other things that could be.

[Connor]

We're going to learn a lot of things. We're going to figure out. Does he learn to read?

[David]

Are there other animals he can milk? Yeah, I have nipple nipples. Greg, can you milk.

[Connor]

Can you milk me?

[David]

Right. Does he milk Robert De Niro? Does he meet the Fockers and Wonka to Willy Nilly?

[Griffin]

Would it be funny?

[Connor]

I hope Wonka meets the.

[Griffin]

There's the atom bomb and then the Fockers. That's my Just all the.

[Connor]

My prediction is we'll find out his middle name is Nelly.

[Ben]

That you can take that to the bank.

[David]

Sure.

[Ben]

But my hope, my hope, my wish is that he meets those.

[Griffin]

Do you hope he meet those.

[David]

Do you hope he meets the little. Because he's good with kids.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah, some little. I don't mind that.

[Griffin]

And I hope Wonk is good with kids.

[David]

Wonka's good with kids.

[Griffin]

Most characters in this show are not good with kids.

[David]

In Twin Peaks the Return.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Also most characters in the Fox universe are not good with kids.

[Griffin]

No, they're sort of ill equipped with pretty much every.

[Ben]

Wait, are you referring to little Nikki when you say people aren't good with kids?

[David]

Okay, let's get all of our threads cleanly established here. Wonka 2 colon, willy nilly. We predict he will meet the Fockers, the Little Fockers and little Nicky. That's what we're predicting.

[Griffin]

Okay, good prediction. The ratings game.

[David]

Oh, sure. So this is the point in the podcast where we usually do the box office game. We are covering TV now. Our friends at Regal, of course, the folks behind Regal Unlimited, the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits, are continuing to sponsor the ratings game, even though this is a TV show. Now, some people say the Twin Peaks the Return is like an 18 hour movie. And with Regal Unlimited, you can see 18 hours worth of movies a month if you're smart, if you use it well. And right now for the holidays, if you use code blank check at checkout for your Regal Unlimited subscription, you can get 20% off. That's double the previous offer. This is unprecedented. Anyway, now we're going to try to guess television ratings.

[Griffin]

I'm going to give you the cable ratings, okay. For June 25, 2017.

[David]

So you're not going to compare it to network broadcast.

[Griffin]

Network ratings are so irrelevant because I guess it's sort of after the TV season has ended.

[David]

So more fun game.

[Griffin]

Four game shows and one America's Funniest Home Videos.

[David]

Afv still in afc number one. But if he was beating seasons one and two of Twin Peaks, it's crazy to be like AF is still beating the return.

[Griffin]

So crazy.

[Ben]

Yeah. If you, if you were to put me in a coma for all that time and not tell me that it was season three, I'd be like, wow.

[Connor]

They all these shows lasted the whole time.

[David]

Okay, summer 2017.

[Griffin]

Yes. The most watched cable show that Sunday night got 3.8 million viewers solid, 1.5 in the demo. It's a Special event on a cable channel.

[David]

It's a special event.

[Griffin]

An awards show, one might say.

[David]

Okay. In the middle of the summer.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Not one of our better known awards shows, but an award show.

[David]

Yes, please.

[Griffin]

No.

[David]

Am I close?

[Griffin]

You're close in that it's an award show named for a network.

[David]

Is it the BET Award? Look at that. What were you gonna guess, Connor?

[Ben]

MTV something, right?

[Griffin]

Yes, the. The BET Awards, hosted by Leslie Jones.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

Beyonce won five awards.

[David]

The Gary the Rats, Album of the.

[Griffin]

Year, Video of the Year, The Booba Realms, so on and so forth.

[David]

Stripper out.

[Griffin]

Like, Chance the Rapper was Best New Artist. That's how much time has passed.

[David]

This is what's crazy.

[Griffin]

Like, it's like, now I'm like, chance the Rap. That guy is cooked. You know, cooked as hell. Right? Yeah.

[Ben]

I don't know anything about what's happened with Chance.

[David]

Nothing.

[Griffin]

I'm just saying, like, he's not, like, cool anymore or, you know, it's like.

[Ben]

Hold on, hold on. I'm catching up here. Let me just get my notebook out. Not hold on any more.

[David]

He had this, like, incredibly exciting shot out of a canon, like, prodigious career, and then he was like, I'm ready to make my first proper album. And it was quietly one of the greatest boondoggles of modern music. Is that fair to say?

[Griffin]

I'm not a huge expert, but I do know that. Right. The big day.

[David]

He made a concept album battle Wedding going wrong.

[Griffin]

And it got kind of bad reviews. And, yes, there was some controversy about him maybe leaning on websites to, like, hey, don't write bad reviews about me. Because then I won't, like, do interviews. I don't know. Like, there was a lot of that going.

[David]

And then 824 dumped his movie. It just felt like he had a couple projects in a row where people had no enthusiasm for what he was doing. After there being so much enthusiasm out of the gate.

[Ben]

Because I want to. I want to just have enough information that in polite society, I can look like I really know what I'm talking about. So Chance the Rapper, everyone thought he won awards for Best New Rapper. And then within a few years, he made an album about a wedding gone wrong. It was one of the great boondoggles. And he started leaning on websites saying, hey, don't write bad reviews about me.

[David]

Look, first of all, amazing recall. I feel like that was almost verbatim.

[Connor]

If I say that in a conversation, people will be like, wow, this guy knows a lot about Chance the Rapper.

[David]

Conor gets it.

[Griffin]

Best movie that year at the VT Awards was hidden figures.

[David]

Oh, sure.

[Griffin]

So that's number one. Number two is a spin off of one of the big cable hits. What is it? It's a spin off Sunday night show.

[David]

Is it? Is it Fear of the walking Dead?

[Griffin]

Fear because people watch the Walking Dead and they. They would watch the show and zombies are eating people and they're like. But shouldn't be afraid of these guys.

[David]

They'd be laughing.

[Ben]

I'm more scared watching the walking down. I'm more scared of Negan in his baseball bat.

[Griffin]

Humanity is the biggest nightmare of all.

[David]

Wait a second. That's always been my secret take. Are the real monsters the living number.

[Ben]

You should be scared of the zombies is the title of that show.

[Griffin]

Number three. That's what they do at the box.

[David]

AMC's you should be scared of the.

[Griffin]

Zombies is course correction is number three at the box office. I be the ratings. Cable ratings.

[Ben]

Cable ratings office.

[Griffin]

Yes. Is a. A long running drama. Comedy drama series. Fantasy comedy drama. That was a spin off of a hit TV films.

[David]

I'm sorry, wait a second.

[Griffin]

There's like a hit TV movie.

[David]

Is it the Librarians?

[Griffin]

No, but you know, you're kind of.

[David]

Okay. There was a hit TV movie.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I think there was several.

[David]

Which then turned into a comedy. Fantasy drama. What were the terms used?

[Griffin]

Like a fantasy comedy drama is the genre. Basically. There was a bunch of TV movies.

[David]

Oh, so there were a bunch of tv.

[Griffin]

I think there was. Yeah.

[David]

And then there's a TV movie franchise.

[Griffin]

And then they ran seven seasons as a.

[David]

As a proper series.

[Griffin]

A proper series, I think interspersed with even more movies. It's kind of one of the big sort of shows for this. This network.

[David]

Is it like the Descendants?

[Griffin]

No, but is it.

[David]

Is it a young person's thing like that?

[Griffin]

I don't.

[David]

It's not like Pretty Little Liars. No. What is what the.

[Ben]

There were series of critically revered.

[Griffin]

I'll tell you that. No, I don't think so. I'll tell you the network. It's the Hallmark Channel.

[Ben]

Oh, Christmas in the Marriage Town.

[Griffin]

Great call that. They should do something called Christmas in the Marriage Town.

[David]

Connor, you've just sold a film.

[Connor]

I just make a million dollars.

[David]

You just made a million dollars.

[Ben]

There was a series of movies live here. You're single and it's almost Christmas.

[David]

They turn into a series. And the series ran for six or seven seasons.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

On the Hallmark Hallmark Channel.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Fantasy.

[Ben]

Clifford the Big Red Dog.

[Griffin]

Clifford the Big Red Dog. Clifford the Big Red Cross stars Catherine Bell, who of course, in the 90s.

[David]

Star of Jag, SNL, liked to make jokes about her bosom. Talked about that in a recent episode for a reason. I don't remember.

[Griffin]

JAG has come up a lot.

[Connor]

Bell.

[Griffin]

It came up because I think we're talking ncs.

[David]

But why? Oh, in the ratings game.

[Griffin]

Game.

[David]

Oh, look, it all comes back.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I don't know. I'm just going to tell you.

[Ben]

I'm out.

[Griffin]

It's called Good Witch.

[Connor]

Good Witch.

[David]

Genuinely Good Witch. Genuinely news to me.

[Griffin]

News to you?

[David]

Well, this was number three multimedia franchise it made.

[Griffin]

It had 2.3 million viewers that night, my friend. More than Twin Peaks, the return, episode eight, which is supposedly the apex of TV storytelling or whatever.

[Ben]

2.3 million. Well, Twin Peaks, episode eight is no Good Witch, ratings wise.

[Griffin]

Exactly. Number four and five are both shows on the esteemed network HGTV, which I think Ben, occasionally.

[David]

I was gonna say Ben, might be able to guess. Is better than the rest of us.

[Unnamed Guest]

I watch it because it is.

[Griffin]

It's just junk food.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's not good for you. But I just find it deeply comforting.

[David]

Ben, if you had to guess who was the top of the HGTV pile in 2017?

[Griffin]

I don't know. You'll never, ever guess. You'll never guess. This show is so many shows like whatever that it doesn't have a Wikipedia page, like, because HTV just pun punch out this stuff.

[David]

But I'm gonna guess it's called Making House.

[Unnamed Guest]

Is it a flipper show?

[Griffin]

No, it's a show about people looking for things on the beach. Property, one might say.

[Ben]

Sand grabbers.

[Griffin]

No.

[Unnamed Guest]

Beachfront.

[Griffin]

No.

[David]

Is it. Is it like metal detectors?

[Griffin]

No, I don't. I think it's. I think. Look, the title makes it sound like it's Metal Detectors, but I think it's actually just looking for, like, treasure finders.

[Ben]

I think it's just Dr. Beach and the Sand Squad that.

[Griffin]

There you go. It's called Beach Hunters.

[Ben]

I was so close.

[Griffin]

You were very close.

[Unnamed Guest]

It's like House Hunters, but it's an extension of that. It's People Hunters. There's people looking for beach.

[David]

People getting beach sand marriage and Christmas Desert.

[Griffin]

That's right.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And then number what the Hallmark version would be what? Number five.

[David]

I'm trying to get the million that Connor just got. I need to start pitching my own Hallmark Christmas marriage movies.

[Griffin]

Number five is another HGV HGTV show.

[David]

Quickly. He made a million. The checks already.

[Ben]

I invested it. It's making money just sitting there in my crypto.

[Griffin]

You need money?

[David]

To make.

[Griffin]

That's so true. You do need money to make money.

[Ben]

I make my money make money. I make my money make money.

[Griffin]

It's this show. This show, Griffin, is set in Mexico. It's another HGTV show about looking for properties in Mexico.

[David]

Okay. Hola. Feliz Navidad Wedding.

[Griffin]

You guys are just doing so much more work than bums at hgtv.

[Ben]

La casa.

[Griffin]

You guys are, like, trying to think of something and they're like, no, it's just gonna be called Mexico Life.

[David]

It's called Mexico Life.

[Ben]

That sounds like a spicy cereal, I'll tell you that.

[Griffin]

I'll tell you that it does. Right? Cycle his life. Life cereal.

[David]

A little too uncomplicated Flavored Life.

[Ben]

So it's like. It's like the Hot Ones version of Life.

[Griffin]

Some of the other shows you've got in the top 10 here, you've also got an HGTV.

[Ben]

How far out of the top 10 do we have to go to Peaks?

[Griffin]

Not in the top 15.

[Ben]

Is it a top hundred?

[Griffin]

I don't know. I only have 50.

[Ben]

Oh, my God.

[Griffin]

You also have something called Lakefront Bargain Hunt. How different is that from beach life? I guess it's lakes, not ocean. Yeah, no, I like. It's really different. Okay. You're right.

[Ben]

It's one of the few shows, it's the only show so far that the title rhymes.

[David]

That's true.

[Griffin]

That's true.

[David]

You gotta give him credit for that.

[Griffin]

You got Connor seems very.

[Connor]

Because I've been sitting through all this, like, Bjork level, non rhyming title.

[Ben]

Finally, Lake Front House Hunt. What's it called?

[Griffin]

Lake.

[Ben]

Lakefront Bargain hunt.

[Griffin]

You've got AMC's preacher, which was, you.

[David]

Know, kind of a thing back there for a minute.

[Griffin]

Yeah. You've got Stars as Power, which I feel like power is always. There's always more power.

[David]

I mean, we're on, like, the eighth Book of Power. Yeah.

[Griffin]

They keep opening new books to that sucker. You have a Food Network show called Food Star, and you have the. I would say, fairly well known reality show, 90 Day Fiance. Is that about people who get married within 90 days or they're married for 90 days. Oh, I see. It's long distance. Couples have 90 days to decide whether or not to get married. Okay. And then finally you have. And I think it's really important to note any SBN broadcasts of a game between the St. Louis Cardinals and the Pittsburgh Pirates. I mean, we just have to say that that ate Twin Peaks Episode 8's.

[David]

Lunch and yet doesn't even have the dignity to rhyme.

[Ben]

So how many people watch Twin Peaks episode 8?

[David]

Wikipedia is saying around 250,000.

[Griffin]

I think that was basically what the ratings were for Twin Peaks the Return general about a quarter million of live viewers.

[David]

We discussed this, that when the deadline wrote about the premiere, the first episode of the Return, they were like, this is embarrassing. Not a lot of views for this highly anticipated legacy, you know, revival series. And Showtime was like, we feel good about this. And the ratings were basically always that linear. Yeah, but they got a lot of Showtime sign ups. And then they'd be like, plus seven days with VOD and D. I'm still.

[Connor]

Signed up to Showtime.

[David]

This is the thing. They were basically like. It was, I think it was kind of like the, the Sirius XM Howard Stern move, where they were like, this just gets people over to our channel who will sign up for anything if it's Twin Peaks.

[Ben]

I also think it's a probably example, an example of the kind of long term thinking that not enough of these companies do, which is like, we build a library, we build a, a brand, we build a legacy, we build, we build stuff and we, you know, and it means something.

[David]

And then like Showtime and CBS and Paramount all remerged and now all of Twin Peaks is on Paramount plus. And that's the thing they get to put in the mountaintop. Laura Palmer's trekking up there with Cartman and Picard.

[Ben]

I mean, you gotta get the Criterion app. You watch the Firewalk with me in Missing Pieces, though.

[David]

Well, but that's in the box. I got it in the box right there.

[Ben]

I know, but I'm just talking. You wanna stream it, you gotta get two streams.

[David]

Okay.

[Ben]

Gotta get the Paramount stream. I gotta get Criterion Stream.

[Griffin]

Okay, so I'm gonna say that we're done discussing Twin Peaks the Return.

[Ben]

Wait, wait, how are we.

[David]

We're done. We're not covering the last 10 episodes at all.

[Griffin]

Oh, yeah, we're done. We're actually. Yeah, you know what? Check in with the other ones. Some stuff happens.

[David]

People are gonna hate this.

[Griffin]

No, I'm saying we're discussing. We're done discussing Twin Peaks the return, episode 8.

[Connor]

Is this episode of Blank Check ending soon? All right, we got. Was there anything else we want to talk about?

[David]

Connor, is there anything else you want?

[Griffin]

Is there anything else sort of bring.

[David]

In as your one appearance within Twin Peaks without spoiling anything for Ben or I that we haven't seen yet or listeners? Well, yes, of course.

[Ben]

I definitely had a feeling of. I mean, I love Twin Peaks. Return. Overall, I'm not gonna spoil anything past 8, but with all kind of revisiting of an old thing where you could ruin it, you know, you could like botch it in a way that you get a negative feeling. And it sort of retroactively has the. There's always like the risk that it'll taint what came before. I'm always looking for what will make it, well, this will be worth it. If we only got this out of it, then it'll be worth it. It's a little bit how I feel about some of the Netflix Arrested Development era, which is there are aspects of it that I'm like, well, if we only got that part of it, I'm glad just for this part or that part. And there'd be stuff like Wally Brando moments like that where I'm like, even if it was just this part scene, even if the rest of it was terrible, I'd want it to happen. Just so we have Wally Brando episode eight. I liked everything of one through seven, but episode eight was the thing where it's like, if it ended now, I would be like, I'm so glad they came back. Even though there wouldn't have been closure on anything at all.

[David]

Yeah, I mean, I genuinely feel like I have no sense of what is going to happen in the rest of the season. To a certain extent. I'm like, everything I feel like I absorbed about this show through cultural osmosis and I've not been digging around reading fucking summaries and whatever, but just like seven, eight years of being online and out in the world and whatever.

[Connor]

Oh, you're there.

[Ben]

I guarantee you.

[David]

I feel like most of it's been crossed off the list of what I knew going in.

[Ben]

I guarantee you that all, almost all.

[Connor]

Of the parts that are my favorite of the remaining part, I don't think you will have been spoiled for by memeing or anything like that.

[David]

I'm just surprised by how much of it has already happened. Of like, oh, the Amanda Seyfried shot Wally Brando in episode eight. And Dougie with the tie on the head.

[Ben]

I know. There's one more thing that I wanted to talk about, which I talked about a little bit with Griffin when we.

[Connor]

Were on a boat ride last weekend.

[David]

We took a nice boat ride.

[Connor]

We took a nice little boat ride.

[David]

To be clear, we took a ferry to New Jersey.

[Ben]

Yeah, I've been working on a thing lately, which is I've watched the Return all the way through, start to finish twice. And it's not the kind of thing. There's a lot of parts of it. I'll revisit a lot of favorite scenes or moments in episode. But there's also scenes that I will fast forward, forward through because I don't need to see them again. But one of the things that was most shocking to me when I saw it, because I said before it started, I had my dream of digital animated.

[Connor]

Bobs flying through space and flying out of stomachs. The other thing that I was really.

[Ben]

Positive of is that, well, the fact that Angelo Bottalamenti is back means that no matter what, we're gonna get wall de Wall. Angelo Bottalamenti Twin Peaks MUSIC and he made even the lowest points of season two feel like Twin Peaks and feel watchable because his music was always there to say. Even a scene that wasn't funny would have that kind of, like.

[Griffin]

Jazzy mood.

[Ben]

And it would kind of feel like, yeah, it's kind of funny.

[Connor]

Like, what's going on. Even if the scenes weren't good, you'd.

[Ben]

Be like, ah, it's as good as any funny scene because it has this funny jazz. Whatever.

[Connor]

There's so little of the Battle of.

[Ben]

Menti music in this show compared to the first two seasons and the movies. And I say two movies there because there's two feature films. Fire Walk With Me and the Missing Pieces.

[David]

David is crying.

[Ben]

One of them was theatrical release. The other one's a streamer. That's okay. You can count a streamer as a real movie now.

[David]

David has smoke coming out of his ears.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And then I was shocked, really, in the first few episodes. The thing was, the most shocking was how many scenes play out to total silence.

[Griffin]

That's an interesting point. I'm going to think about it more too, because there is lots of beautiful music that he made that you can listen to. The soundtracks out there and all that.

[Ben]

I have started because I have. There's a thing called the Twin Peaks Archive that they released at one point that's like hundreds of cues that didn't make it onto the soundtrack albums.

[David]

All the raw material that badlamenti everything.

[Ben]

That they were working with, basically including some. The Twin Peaks archive is so full.

[Connor]

That it didn't even includes music that.

[Ben]

Was written for on the Air.

[David]

Is it really?

[Ben]

Yeah. There's tracks at the end, they're like, oh, this is for on the Air.

[David]

But also just like him coughing on microphone. He's accidentally lav'd up and he takes a leak and they forgot to turn off.

[Ben]

And it's Beautiful music, Angelo. I have started scoring Twin Peaks the Return using these tracks. And I don't know if you know.

[David]

This, David, but Connor has a touch of the Topher to him. You're messing with the man's been known to make.

[Griffin]

You're ripping out the guts. You're tinkering.

[Ben]

Yeah, I got a touch of the Topher.

[David]

He's got a touch of the Topher. He's been known to make a cut or two.

[Ben]

I consider it. It's a feeling of grace, to be honest, to.

[David]

There is a certain grace to having a touch of the Topher.

[Ben]

And I have to say, it's really interesting because there's so many things where there's scenes that are so long that you actually can't score them without it feeling like, no, no, this is too much. So those. I'm being discreet about it. But there are a lot of scenes where if you add a little bit of discreet jazz in some of the comedic scenes, like, for instance, the very first scene with Jacoby where the shovels arrive, putting a little bit of the. Putting some of that under. It's amazing how it takes a, I think four minute scene and makes it feel like it's not four minutes of a truck arriving in a box. There's just like. It makes it feel like it's Twin Peaks when Jib Kobe comes out of his motorhome or whatever he steps out of. And episode eight, I'm up to episode eight and scoring these things. And episode eight by far needed the fewest music cues.

[Connor]

I think I had a little bit.

[Ben]

Of scoring to the Mr. C stuff at the beginning, but then almost nothing because it's sort of like. And I know that there's the thing. Griffin pointed out that there's the moment where they bring in the Laura.

[David]

This is my counter. The scene where Bobby sees Laura's photo in whichever episode, it's five or six, sort of out of the evidence box. And Laura's theme hits for the first time is such a kind of hammer blow because they've been holding that music back for most of the series.

[Connor]

And I did not use the Laura. I haven't used that Laura Palmer theme, but I have used the. The first part of that theme, which is used a lot for its own. The part that's the synthesizer is going, you know, that sort of back and forth.

[Ben]

Because like a lot of the Matthew Lillard stuff, you add a little bit of that to it. Sort of like the Packard Mill sort of like music to it. And it really makes it. It really amps up some of the. It just makes it feel like Twin Peaks in a way that is exciting to me.

[Griffin]

I'd be interested to see it, like truly listen to it.

[David]

Do you ever share these cuts with anybody? I feel like you've described a lot of cut editing projects to me.

[Connor]

I think when I'm done with this, I'll probably have it sit in a drop box folder and I'll give people the link to this Dropbox folder if they want to experience it. Because it is like if you've already watched it all the way through and experienced it as lynch intended.

[Ben]

Because it definitely was a choice. He had access to all these tracks.

[Connor]

Too and he wanted to do this. I do think it is an interesting thing just to see. Can you make it feel even more like Twin Peaks with this music?

[Ben]

And my answer so far is like.

[Connor]

It is a very good feeling. It would be like if they made Star wars movies without John Williams music all of a sudden. And it was just sort of like quiet space battles and you're like, well, they're really trying to make a point here that you can't hear this music in space.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And it's not the same as before.

[David]

The vacuum of sound cut.

[Connor]

Then you show them and you add some John Williams music to it. Probably it's like, oh, it feels like Star Wars.

[Griffin]

Yeah, right. I think what you're doing is probably a perversity of whatever.

[Ben]

A perversity?

[Griffin]

Yes, of what lynch was attempting with the Return. But I'd still be interested to see it.

[Ben]

I agree. What I'm doing is a perversity.

[Griffin]

Right. Lynch wouldn't like that you did that.

[David]

You want to hear about an ultimate perversity of director's intent? Connor, tell David about your fucking alternate cut of Sully.

[Griffin]

What'd you do to Sully?

[Ben]

Just crashes.

[David]

It's even worse than what Michael Malley did.

[Ben]

The crash cut, I got it on my phone. I cut out all the parts that weren't the crash. So it's just crash, crash.

[Griffin]

I got it on my phone.

[Ben]

It's a tight 40 minute feature. It's still go by the Saludos Amigos rules. It's still a feature film, but I.

[Connor]

Would say I'm invoking the the Saludos Amigos document.

[David]

Power of Salutism. The precedent set by.

[Ben]

The precedent set by Saludos Amigos. It is still a feature film. But, you know, the thing is, I started cutting it. I'm like, you know, I like the crash parts more than I like the parts where he's like I include the dream crash. So if. Even if it's 41 minutes, 21 seconds, it's tight.

[David]

You know what it sounds like to me? You railroaded Sully.

[Griffin]

Yeah. I would say you're not really delving into the beautiful kind of storytelling of that movie.

[David]

Sounds like a railroading.

[Griffin]

We're withholding the full crash for a long time because it's about Sully sitting in the trauma of what happening to him and not.

[Ben]

You see the crash, then you see the crash, then you see the crash, then you see the crash.

[Griffin]

This sounds like Sully's nightmare.

[Ben]

No, but then it has a great. It has a great cut at the end because they finally. It cuts to the part where they land the thing and then Aaron Eckhart.

[David]

In the simulator or the real.

[Ben]

The real one.

[David]

Okay.

[Ben]

Aaron Eckhart looks to camera.

[Connor]

He's looking at Sully.

[Ben]

Camera moves to Aaron Eckhart's point of view.

[Connor]

Sully looks to him hard cut to black.

[Ben]

And then we hear Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers Learning to Fly.

[Griffin]

Well, I won't be watching that one, but I'd love to see.

[Ben]

I'm going to share the link with you, so we'll just see if you don't watch it.

[Griffin]

Okay, fair enough.

[David]

Thank you for doing this again.

[Ben]

Thank you for having me on the main feed.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So glad to return on Maine.

[David]

Yeah. And we'll have you back on in another nine years. Yeah, I'm just kidding. We'll get you on.

[Ben]

I'll see you again in nine years.

[David]

Tiny dinos.

[Ben]

Tiny dinos.

[David]

Your podcast with James iii. My podcast, Another blank check favorite about.

[Ben]

Two best friends who are scientists who bring back dinosaurs. But they bring them back very small so they won't cause any problems. Like in Jurassic Park.

[David]

We got some George Lucas talk shows coming up in California and San Francisco and Los Angeles in January, February.

[Ben]

Find out about them. Connor Ratliff presents. The acting class is gonna be. It keeps performing monthly in New York.

[Connor]

But we're also gonna bring it to Sketchfest.

[David]

Where. And you're doing live streams of those too. Yeah, people don't live in New York.

[Ben]

If you don't live in New York. You can see those. That's my one person show where I pretend to teach an acting class.

[David]

It's fantastic.

[Ben]

And Griffin, you're going to be a part of that at Sketchfest. So that's going to be a. Yeah. You don't know about this?

[David]

No, I said I am, period. I'm not throwing around willy nilly question marks.

[Ben]

I didn't know. Seriously, I didn't. Seriously, I'm being serious right now.

[David]

Can we get serious?

[Ben]

Satellite radio?

[David]

Yeah. What? The bits are stacking on top of this.

[Griffin]

That's enough.

[Ben]

That's enough. And I think that's all my plugs.

[David]

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for Twin Peaks Colon, the return colon, parts nine through 14. Is that correct?

[Griffin]

Nine through 13.

[David]

Well, the egg on my face. I'm a fool.

[Griffin]

Yeah. But those five episodes.

[David]

And as always, on August 13, 1998, MTV aired an episode of television titled the Missing Girl, in which Fight one was Trent Reznor versus Puff Daddy. Fight two was David Hasselhoff versus John Tesh.

[Griffin]

Why?

[David]

Because, I don't know. They're corny music guys, I guess. They're guys who have moonlight one, Hasselhoff one.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Puff Daddy versus Trent Reznor was a draw. They slice each other to bits. And then Mills Lane put them together as two composite creatures. And then the final fight was Bruce Willis and Demi Moore versus Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidd.

[Griffin]

I remember that one. This is a power couple fight.

[David]

And what happens is the women win. Thank God Stone Cold gives them the assist.

[Griffin]

To feminism.

[David]

They knock down those men. And that episode, the most seismic episode of television I had seen up until that point in time, was episode eight.

[Griffin]

Wow. What a world.