Twin Peaks: The Return (Episodes 9-13) with Fran Hoepfner

Summary

Summary of "Blank Check with Griffin & David" Episode: Twin Peaks: The Return (Episodes 9-13) with Fran Hofffner

Release Date: December 15, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of Blank Check with Griffin & David, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims delve deep into Twin Peaks: The Return (Episodes 9-13) alongside guest Fran Hofffner. Produced by Ben Hosley, this discussion navigates the intricate narrative and character developments introduced in these episodes, offering insightful analysis and humorous commentary characteristic of the show's style.

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Guests and Initial Discussions

Fran Hofffner joins Griffin and David, bringing her unique perspective to the discussion. The conversation kicks off with light-hearted banter about episodes already watched, leading into the challenges of finding appropriate quotes from the complex Twin Peaks narrative.

Notable Quote:

• David (00:56): "She's sick."

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Comparisons with Other TV Shows

The hosts draw parallels between Twin Peaks and other television phenomena like Lost, exploring how both shows sustain their mythologies and engage audiences with their enigmatic storytelling.

Notable Quotes:

• Griffin (05:18): "Rest of the stories inspired us to look at these shows differently."
• David (05:18): "My favorite guy."

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Character Analysis

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on key characters such as Dougie Jones, Audrey Horne, and the enigmatic Mr. C. The hosts analyze character motivations, development, and the evolving dynamics within the show's universe.

Notable Quotes:

• Fran Hofffner (14:44): "He's awesome."
• David (10:08): "She was a big part of original Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me."

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Plot Developments in Episodes 9-13

The episode breakdown covers major plot points, including Richard Horne's increasing menace, Dougie's encounters with various antagonists, and the introduction of new characters like Audrey Horne's mysterious husband. The hosts dissect pivotal scenes, such as confrontations in the desert and supernatural occurrences that drive the narrative forward.

Notable Quotes:

• Griffin (20:43): "Richard’s the most evil character in Twin Peaks."
• David (36:54): "He's one of those guys who are like, just don't scroll too far on Wikipedia page."

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Themes and Symbolism

Griffin, David, and Fran explore recurring themes such as the conflict between the natural and the supernatural, the impact of past actions on the present, and the show's commentary on modern society's obsession with technology and instant gratification.

Notable Quotes:

• Fran Hofffner (43:37): "It's more than that. It's like, what if he started working for the villains?"
• David (60:12): "Twin Peaks starts that to a certain extent, but the success of Lost can sustain that for a way, and to a certain degree, it's like broken people's brains."

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Guest Insights: Fran Hofffner

Fran shares her experiences with Twin Peaks, including her initial reluctance to engage with David Lynch's work and how her view evolved after watching Fire Walk With Me. She reflects on the emotional resonance of the series and its parallels with personal experiences, such as her battle with mononucleosis.

Notable Quotes:

• Fran Hofffner (02:04): "I haven't either. And I haven't seen. This is my first time watching this, so I still."
• Fran Hofffner (12:03): "I was thinking about Demoted yourself. Yeah, I was thinking about demoting myself."

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Humorous Interludes and Advertisements

Throughout the episode, the hosts intersperse humor with their analysis, joking about various topics from Lost to pop culture references. Advertisements are seamlessly integrated into the conversation, maintaining the show's entertaining tone.

Notable Quotes:

• Griffin (43:10): "Maybe I'll save it for the sharks."
• David (85:18): "He's sort of like, this is our blank check."

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the discussion wraps up, the hosts reflect on the complexity and brilliance of Twin Peaks: The Return, appreciating its ability to blend mystery, drama, and surrealism. They commend the show's enduring legacy and its influence on modern television storytelling.

Notable Quotes:

• David (73:37): "And he's sort of playing like scary evil in quotes, which makes sense because he's more of a force than a ghost."
• Griffin (90:50): "Mr. C is doing a lot of power stuff."

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Key Takeaways

• Twin Peaks: The Return continues to challenge viewers with its intricate plots and deep character studies.
• The show's ability to intertwine supernatural elements with everyday struggles remains a standout feature.
• Guest Fran Hofffner provides valuable insights, particularly regarding character motivations and thematic depth.
• The hosts skillfully balance detailed analysis with humor, making complex storylines accessible and engaging.

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References:

• Quotes are attributed with speaker names and timestamps in parentheses.
• The summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-discussion segments as per instructions.

Transcript

[Griffin]

Blank Check with Griffin and David. Blank. Jack with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blake Jack.

[David]

What? What are you doing? We're trying to record a podcast. We're already late. We're late for the podcast. It's way past 12:30. Why is this happening? I saw that gun go shooting out the window. Fran Hoffner is joining us. We haven't seen her in a long while. We're late. We got five episodes to go. Please, we have to record the podcast. She's sick.

[Griffin]

Is that Naomi Watts?

[David]

No, this is the woman in the car.

[Griffin]

Oh, yeah, right. Of course. Of course, right.

[David]

Oh, God. Kind of my favorite scene.

[Griffin]

That scene is so intense.

[Fran Hoffner]

Amazing.

[Griffin]

Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. No, amazing.

[David]

You know what's kind of difficult?

[Griffin]

What? Finding quotes from individual chunks of Twin Peaks.

[David]

Three separate reason into, like, four parts and then being like, I gotta find a quote for one of these episodes.

[Griffin]

You didn't have to. You could have begun the episode with, like, I can't find a quote because of the specific format of this.

[David]

Here's the problem. We've been doing this show so fucking long that I've done that move four times now. Probably the novelty of weird. I couldn't find a quote is now overplayed. So I had to do that thing. That was exciting. That was riveting.

[Griffin]

It was fantastic. And it reminded me that I watched these episodes a little bit ago because, of course, why didn't I recognize that a little. What?

[David]

When did you watch them?

[Griffin]

I don't know. Like, you know, a few weeks back.

[David]

David's gesturing with his head, like, it's in the corner. Yeah.

[Griffin]

Yeah. I haven't watched the next chunk.

[David]

Okay.

[Fran Hoffner]

I haven't either. And I haven't seen. This is my first time watching this, so I still.

[David]

Okay, we're in the same place.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Okay. I was worried about not being caught, like, fully caught up.

[Griffin]

No, we've been. We've been both for Griffin and Ben's sake, but also for listeners who are maybe also watching for the first time, you know, mindful of, like, not talking about what's going to happen now.

[David]

Can I say there are.

[Griffin]

Now. Then again, Maggie did shoot Mr. Burns.

[Ben]

What?

[Griffin]

And what's another, like, steal candy from baby.

[David]

And he was pointing at M s. They thought it was Waylon Smithers because they were looking at it from the wrong direction, but he was doing M. S. Yes. Maggie Simpson.

[Griffin]

What's another, like, famous TV cliffhanger? That's not. Who shot Junior. That I could sort of.

[David]

Well, because, of course, Maggie Simpson shot Junior. Yes, she did try to steal candy from a baby, and he pointed at that motherfucker. Yeah. What's another TV cliffhanger? Who Killed Laura Palmer? I feel like that's a big but.

[Griffin]

No, but that wasn't a cliffhanger. That's the premise of the show. I'm talking about a classic TV cliffhanger where it's like, what's in the hat, guys?

[David]

What's in the hat?

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, I was gonna say we have to go back later.

[Griffin]

Yeah, we have to go back is probably the best end of season. Like that Lost everything.

[David]

But that's kind of an interesting one because it's less a cliffhanger and more being like, holy shit, that's where the show is going.

[Griffin]

Right? Like, more a reorientation.

[David]

Right. You didn't know how that was gonna.

[Griffin]

What's in the Hatch isn't. Isn't bad as a. But a lot of people at the time were kind of like, wait, they're just gonna open the door. And we don't even. Like all the whole season of them waiting to open this fucking door. And then we don't know what's in there.

[David]

I thought it was great. And you know what was great? The answer. My favorite guy.

[Fran Hoffner]

He's awesome.

[Griffin]

Big D. Lost.

[Fran Hoffner]

I've been thinking a lot about loss.

[David]

Nailed both.

[Fran Hoffner]

Because I've been watching this and I think about that time of my life. But also, Lost is holding up.

[David]

You know, I haven't.

[Griffin]

Lost is doing great.

[David]

I haven't done the rewatch. Joe Robinson, when she was doing the Lost rewatch. Yeah. I asked to come on only for Desmond episodes because Desmond's my guy. So I rewatched only the Desmond arc, basically his solo arc, which is probably.

[Griffin]

Pretty great, if you.

[David]

Which I thought, like, interesting and also felt very evocative during lockdown to watch the Desmond arc. And he's my main guy. But I've been. I've been tempted to go back and watch all of it. Look, it's been coming up a lot in our watch through of Twin Peaks because this, of course, is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

[Griffin]

I'm David.

[David]

It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks, make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce, baby. This is a miniseries on the films of David lynch, but also his TV shows. It's called Twin Pods Fire Cast with me today, we're covering episodes nine through 13.

[Griffin]

That's correct.

[David]

Of Twin the Return. And Lost has been coming up a lot, as when you watch a thing like this, you're forced to compare it to all the other great failures and successes of the kind of shows that keep you on tenterhooks, spin out their mythology, raise questions, answer them or not. These things that become cultural phenomenons and how they sustain themselves. Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

And I think Lost also had that thing, especially in later seasons, where the sea storyline for an episode would be something extremely mundane.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

Of like, we're gonna set up a library on the island, or like the golf course thing. And there would be these almost little, like, soapy kind of storylines that had nothing to do with the greater mystery of anything. Would just be like, well, if you live on an island now, you're going to want a golf course.

[David]

I guess it's fascinating because at the time, that was a thing that people would point to of like, they don't know where they're doing. The show's going to fuck it up. Like, it's getting thin.

[Fran Hoffner]

Totally.

[David]

And then Twin Peaks, the Return is David lynch being like, what if I really didn't resolve the things that you guys cared about? What if I didn't even spend that much time on the things that you previously associate with the show? It's kind of crazy that Audrey only comes in in this block of episodes.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Audrey's part in Twin the Return is a real curveball in general, I would say.

[David]

I'm already trying to wrap my head around it and I cannot guess what's to come. Now, can I take you to task?

[Griffin]

David, you can do whatever you want, but I was just looking at some cliffhangers.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I mean, like, Buffy dying at the.

[David]

End of season five, but that is spoilers.

[Griffin]

Well, sorry, but that kind of felt like, you know, one of those things. You're like, well, I mean, it's coming back. So I assume they'll figure that out. You know, like, it's a little different.

[David]

From, like, Unresolved Question.

[Griffin]

The Best of Both Worlds. The classic cliffhanger of season three, Star Trek the Next Generation, where, like, Picard gets turned into a Borg and they're like, to be continued. And you are truly, like, I have to wait for four months to find out. I mean, again, you're like, I assume he won't be anymore, but, like, you know that. That you don't get that anymore.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

I think killing angel and Buffy was More of a cliffhanger almost than killing Buffy, killing Angel, or when they banish him, they banish him to a realm.

[Griffin]

That's the thing. They just kick him into the Hellmouth, where he comes back out and he starts a great detective agency. And then nine episodes into that detective agency, he's like, I'm gonna revamp the cast completely. Cause this isn't working. And then they made a decision.

[Fran Hoffner]

And then they made a way better show.

[Griffin]

Yeah. And then they revamp the cast one more time because Whedon is a, you know, problematic manager. And that. That final season also rocks.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, it's so good.

[Griffin]

Season five of Angel.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's like, the greatest season of any tv.

[Griffin]

So good. That's. But you. You know about the Muppet episode, right?

[David]

That's Edlin's episode.

[Griffin]

I know, but you know about that, right?

[David]

Of course. It's smile time.

[Griffin]

So fucking good.

[David]

Yeah. But did he. I think he wrote and directed that.

[Griffin]

He definitely wrote it.

[Fran Hoffner]

You know, what if we took this vampire show and made it Boston Legal is a great question.

[Griffin]

You're just like, well, that would work.

[David]

And then they're like, watch it work.

[Griffin]

And you're like, this works.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

But, like, it's. It's more than that. It's like, what if he started working for the villains? And you're like, okay, that's a TV plot.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Right. Like, oh, the villains of this show the whole time. And now he's like, now you got to work for him. But the villains in angel are an evil law firm, so they managed to turn it into, like, a weird, evil law firm show.

[David]

So fucking lost. Right. Our guest today is Fran Hoffner, already cited in the.

[Griffin]

He did direct it, too. Yes.

[David]

In the quote. Thank you. Fran Hoffner. Fran magazine.

[Fran Hoffner]

That's right. Features editor.

[David]

Oh, wow. New title.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

I was thinking about Demoted yourself. Yeah, I was thinking about demoting myself. Being like, I got bought out or something.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Like, and have sold to Penske.

[Griffin]

You could have, like, an evil publisher who you're always railing against. Like, in the comments. You could be like, fran magazine would be producing more, but. But for evil eic. Or, like. Yeah.

[David]

Obsessed with clicks. Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

My brother, who's, like, a founding member, is always sending me editorial notes where he's like, yeah. He's like, you haven't talked WWE at all. And I'm like, well, I don't know anything about that. He's like, well, the readers are interested in that.

[Griffin]

I'm hearing on the Wind.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

I think part of the. The Conversation around Lost and it being one of the first shows where it really felt like there was a profound, profound discussion happening between the Internet and the makers of the show. Right. And people sort of felt empowered that they were like, we're being heard and recognized.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

I think the long tail of that, a thing that now is pervasive, especially in like streaming shows and sort of like shorter seasons, spaced out and whatever is like, we need to maintain the sense that we know where this is going from the beginning. And what I miss is the sloppiness of TV being like, fuck something in the chaos of us just needing to produce 22 episodes in nine month stretches with only three months off causes people to sometimes just be like, fuck. What if this is a legal show now? Yeah, we don't care about it. Seeming like this was our plan the whole time. Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Or like, what if they go Back to the 70s, right. On Lost.

[David]

Yes. Just fun shifts like that. David, I want to take your task.

[Griffin]

Okay. What did I do?

[David]

You spoiled two things for me.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[David]

You're saying that you're trying not to talk ahead about what hasn't happened.

[Griffin]

I'm. And I'm sorry if I messed up. What did I do?

[David]

The parentage of Audrey Horne. Billy's the son's name. No.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Richard Horn.

[David]

I'm sorry, Richard Horne.

[Griffin]

Yes. I referred to him with his last name. Forgetting that, of course. That is sort of a spoiler.

[David]

Yes, Yes. I think we cut it out of its episode, but you ruined that for me. But here's the bigger one.

[Griffin]

I would say it's not important really who he is, but it is sort of, I guess.

[David]

Can't say. Can't say. The. I mean, the moment was stolen from me. I didn't get to experience it. Here's the bigger one that I find more offensive. In our last episode, I raised the philosophical question, does Dougie fuck?

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

And you said, of course we see Dougie fuck.

[Griffin]

And I was talking about a future episode.

[David]

How I think I'd remember that if that happened. And then when the sex scene happens in this, I'm like, this is what? Hundred percent what David was talking about.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I'm sorry. I was an episode off.

[David]

It's another thing that would have rattled me to my core.

[Griffin]

What? Dougie fucking.

[David]

And apparently fucking better than anyone while doing as little as possible.

[Griffin]

But like, he's just, you know, he's just got his mojo.

[Fran Hoffner]

Why wouldn't Dougie fuck?

[David]

Because we.

[Griffin]

Well, because he doesn't. Barely knows how to like put his pants on.

[David]

Right. And I was like, there's no direct implication. I was reading that they're sleeping together. So I was like, let's fill in the space here. And David was like, of course. We've seen him fuck already.

[Griffin]

Right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I spoiled for you. That Dougie does get that thing on. Yeah, he does, you know, whatever. Go to Pound Town.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

With his wife.

[David]

I'd say it's more like Amy Watts gets her Dougie on.

[Griffin]

Yeah, Right. Welcome, Fran.

[David]

Welcome, Fran.

[Fran Hoffner]

Thank you.

[Griffin]

How are you doing?

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, I'm. I'm pretty good.

[Griffin]

Long ago.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'm happy to be here.

[David]

Long ago.

[Griffin]

I asked you if you wanted to talk about Twin Peaks on show. Yeah, I guess initially we were thinking we were talking about Wild at Heart.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

And then you got mononucleosis.

[Fran Hoffner]

No, it's fine. Everyone knows I got mononucleosis.

[David]

Acute mono. Yeah, adorable. Mono. Sometimes that's what I used to call it when I had it. It sucks, doesn't it?

[Fran Hoffner]

It's really bad. Because there's kind of nothing they can do for you.

[David]

Correct.

[Fran Hoffner]

They're like, well, you have it.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

You have. Right. This is just like run out the clock.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. And I've told this story, but I'm older than the usual person who gets mono. And so they refused to test 16.

[David]

What's our. The age within canon?

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, I think I'm 26 now.

[David]

Right. 26.

[Fran Hoffner]

But they were like, you're too old.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

For mono. So they didn't want to test me. I had to, like, beg them to test me for mono. The mono test came back positive on the, like, Dr. Online portal. But then they called me to confirm it. When they called me to confirm it, they said, and just checking, Your age is 13 years old. And I'd be like, no. And so they kept. They said, like, adult mono. Which also. Really.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Made me laugh, though. They're no different, I believe.

[David]

Yeah. I mean, I think I got it when I was 20, 22.

[Fran Hoffner]

I think that's. I know most people who had it, had it in, like, college.

[David]

Yeah. They treated me like I was geriatric.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah. But it's a bar. You feel like a teenager. It's weird.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. I got all, like, weak and sleepy.

[David]

And you're just kinda like, shut, mom, shut up.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, my. Well, my lymph nodes got really huge. I couldn't wear. I couldn't wear my glasses because my lymph nodes behind my ears got so big.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

That my glasses didn't fit anymore. It was just all this stupid stuff. And so I just slept for all of July. And I had no voice when I was first supposed to come on because of the sore throat. So I couldn't speak. I was silenced.

[David]

Right. So then I rudely. By the mainstream media and your body, I said to David, maybe let's have Fran do a Twin Peaks return.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

So that gives more time for recovery. I did not know you had not watched it.

[Fran Hoffner]

No, I mean, lynch was a huge blind spot for me. Everything that I've watched leading up to this has been the first time I've seen it.

[David]

Yeah, at heart that's true.

[Griffin]

So you've watched all of Twin Peaks seasons one, two and three, right?

[Fran Hoffner]

No, no, she said she hasn't. I have the five eps left of.

[Griffin]

No, I know one and two.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yes.

[Griffin]

And then. Right. All the way up to here.

[Fran Hoffner]

All the way up to here. I watched Firework with me and I watched about half the films.

[David]

Sure.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'll do the rest.

[Griffin]

Yeah, whenever. No rush.

[David]

What are your general feelings on David Lynch? How is that Newly.

[Fran Hoffner]

He's not really one of my guys, but. And. And I'll be. And I don't have like, a greater intellectual reason to say that he, like. I had sort of put off getting into his stuff because it just never felt like it was going to be for me. And I think the stuff that I've really gravitated towards in watching has been his most like, ostensibly quote unquote, normal stuff. Like Elephant man is probably my favorite thing as well.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

That I watched. But that's because it's austere and it reminds me of other stuff that I know that I like. But the more that I get into Twin Peaks, the more I think about Lost, which is a fond time in my life. And I think I had this thing of like. I really loved season one of Twin Peaks Season two. I think, like a lot of people, I had a lot of fatigue and annoyance with. I liked the sort of first chunk and then when it goes off, it really lost me. And then it only very kind of got me back. And then I really was feeling very down on lynch. And then watching Fire Walk with me sort of brought me back really big and I loved that. And so the return, I feel so completely, like, baffled by it. And I think it's appealing to both. All the things that I liked about original Twin Peaks while also indulging in all the things of his stuff that doesn't really work. Interesting interest me.

[David]

Yeah, I definitely like. There's a. There's an odd thing. I mean, you've talked about David and I remember seeing this kind of scuttlebutt online of, like, people's. Some people's impatience with, like, when is Goodcoop gonna return and when is the show gonna, like, actually start? The realization of it's this the whole time.

[Griffin]

Right. Oh, so it's not. This isn't just some, like, preamble to us getting to Cooper is whole again and is solving crimes in Twin Peaks. It's like. No, no, no. The journey is the entire season. And that's the story being told here. Right. No one told you that in advance. So when it was happening, there was a lot of confusion. And yeah, we've talked about it. You know, it was crazy.

[David]

I find it helpful that I'm watching this knowing that, like, having years to process secondhand. Oh, I should not put any expectations onto this of what I think it's going to be and try to take it for what it is. I do definitely still, at this point, episode 13, like, three quarters of the way through it feel like I don't really have any holistic handle.

[Fran Hoffner]

No. I feel like I have no handle on it whatsoever. But it's frustrating me. Less and exciting me. Yeah, More. And my memory of this show airing at the time was that I felt like I would come into the office days after an episode would air, and people at Fran magazine and my editorial staff would be just like, trying to explain it right to each other. And it felt like when the adults are talking and Charlie Brown where it just like I couldn't process it out of context. But even now, I think having someone try to explain it to me would not make sense. And I'm watching it.

[Griffin]

Well, I'm gonna try anyway.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, well, it's a. Yeah, it's just sort of much more experiential than I realized and much less looking at actors who I once saw young and now they're old. But I. I always love that.

[David]

I keep.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'm always. I love him so much.

[Griffin]

Direct.

[David]

But it's also crazy how many people are dead in this cast now.

[Griffin]

Yeah, sure. I mean, we're. We're coming up on. I mean, it's. It's seven years ago, this show now, right?

[David]

Yeah. But you have a handful of actors who died before it released where this is like their. Their final statement. And then just a lot of people and some of it is just obviously, like, this was a show that had an older supporting cast to begin with three decades earlier.

[Griffin]

Who else are you thinking of? Who's dead. Keckner's still kicking.

[David]

Keckner's kicking. Forster dead. Sizemore dead. Coulson dead. Right. Katherine Coulson. Am I getting him right? Yes.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I meant right now.

[David]

Miguel.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Well, those are the people, right, who died before the show came out. Yes, but Sizemore, of course, we lost him recently.

[Fran Hoffner]

I got really scared that Michael. Aunt Keenan died, and then I was like, oh, he's just retired.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Which I respect, to be clear.

[Griffin]

Yeah, absolutely. He's not dead, as far as I know. Haven't checked in with him lately.

[David]

Hold on. I'm gonna do another dead count. This is like, I do a Every. Like, once a month, I check in, and I'm like, let's take stock of how many original Toy Story cast members are dead. I want to have the active list, and I feel like I need to do the same with Twin Peaks now.

[Griffin]

Do you need to do that with Toy Story?

[David]

Is that Riley Ermey, Jim Varney.

[Griffin]

Those are the big two.

[David]

Well, but I'm saying Delicious Rickles is gone. Estelle Harris is gone. When I say original is Rickles Ratzenberg. Ratzenberg's with us. Ned Beatty's gone.

[Griffin]

Well, sure. Well, It's Toy Story 3. I mean, he's not coming back. But I'm sort of like, for Toy.

[David]

Story 5, doesn't count.

[Griffin]

No, I'm saying, like, for Toy Story 5.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

Will there be no Mr. Potato Head?

[David]

It's a great question.

[Griffin]

Like, what? Yeah. Do they start to kind of soften.

[David]

Because Harris was still alive? Recorded new dialogue for four, Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

Rickles. They scrapped the movie and started over so late that Rickles had never started recording. So they constructed his performance out of leftover takes of things he had done for, like, the theme parks and commercials and shit.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

And in that movie, he just kind of makes, like, interjections from the side.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'm always scared now that it's all just gonna be like, AI voice. That's my stuff. Which makes me sad and depresses me.

[David]

Especially with something like that, where you're like.

[Griffin]

With the voices, they can kind of.

[David]

Get away with it, but I'm like, rickles, the curveball. You can't fake that. Right. Or the fastball. Let's say the Rickles fastball. The delivery. You could get the voice.

[Fran Hoffner]

Maybe they can't fool us, but the executives, the shareholders might be tricked.

[David]

I'm hoping they retired the two of them.

[Griffin]

Yeah, yeah, that'd be. I mean, I think that'd only be fair.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Anyway, Twin Peaks, the Return.

[David]

I'm looking at the list. I'm trying to identify other people who've passed away.

[Griffin]

Go on, David, what did you make of episode eight? Fran, before we.

[David]

Peggy Lipton.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, the crazy one.

[Griffin]

The crazy one.

[David]

Peggy Lipton passed away.

[Griffin]

She did RIP.

[David]

Harry Dean Stanton passed away.

[Griffin]

He did. He was very old.

[Fran Hoffner]

He's one of those guys.

[David]

Pretty young.

[Griffin]

He read young on screen. He looked for the last 40 years, he seemed as young as anyone.

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, not to disagree with you guys, but he's one of those guys, like Pete Postelway, where this guy has only ever been the oldest man who's ever in any room whatsoever.

[David]

He was born a Benjamin Button baby.

[Griffin]

You're like, you know, you see him young and you're like, that's just a different person. That's not Harry Dean Stanton. Yeah, like the Harry Dean Stanton I know was 100 years old in Alien or whatever.

[Fran Hoffner]

The crazy episode.

[Griffin]

Honestly, you look at young Gary Dean Stanton, he looks really old.

[David]

Yeah, he really did. He was born old.

[Griffin]

He's pretty old here. He looks old.

[David]

Yep.

[Griffin]

Yeah. So episode eight, which we are drafting from, we're moving off of to talk about this sequence of episodes, but episode eight is a break in format and it has a big nuclear bomb and a bug and lots of crazy stuff.

[David]

But a less complete break than I had been led to believe. It has 20 minutes of functioning like an almost normal episode before it. Then hard pivots.

[Fran Hoffner]

That's true.

[David]

I was ready for it to be complete, end to end, standalone. Yeah, yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

I like thinking and drawing conclusions based on sort of visual evidence. So I just love to be shown a bunch of stuff and be like, go, think about it. Yeah, Think about what this is.

[David]

So you were locked in on that one.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, totally. And I almost would prefer more of just sort of watching things come to life without back and forth dialogue a lot of the time, I think. But I remember this is. It's the only episode of this. I remember when it aired in real time, just because I felt like everyone I knew was going completely insane. It tried to make sense of it and reckoning with it being one of like the great modern episodes of television. But it's certainly not like anything I've ever seen, quote unquote, on tv. I'm sure you guys are getting into the weeds about is this a movie or is it a TV show? I just.

[David]

I so fundamentally think it is not a movie. Yeah, yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

I mean, I totally agree with you.

[David]

But, like, for me to accept that argument, he would need to re edit it into one 18 hour work. Like, I just, I think even though the show does not have some strict like episode format that it conforms to every time, I'm like, there is a shape to the hour cycles.

[Griffin]

There is. And they end, you know, with music and so on and so forth.

[David]

That alone just makes it feel like he is aware of, like this is intended to be seen in one hour blocks. And that alone makes it a TV show, not a movie to me.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. And I also think Fire Walk With Me actually does really feel like a movie. Even though it has these like two parts.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

But that feels much more largely the cinematic in form and shape.

[Griffin]

Yes. I think, I mean, for one, I think the whole is it a movie? You know, it becomes this exhausting debate that. Where you're kind of like, you know, why are we fighting about this when we could just be talking about it? Right. You know, But I initially was very not into the, no, it's a big long movie thing because I was like, that just feels insulting or sort of, you know, disdainful of the television format, which is a great storytelling.

[David]

There's something backhanded to this notion of, like, this is so good that it doesn't deserve to be called tv. And I'm like, that's rude to tv. And also, TV has its own.

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, I was gonna say watching this is making me nostalgic for when TV felt really good.

[Griffin]

And yeah, absolutely.

[Fran Hoffner]

I didn't watch this at the time of airing, but I watched what I felt like was the other really big 2017 thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, which was the Leftovers ended that year, which felt to me quite seismic and like something that has not really been replicated.

[David]

What year does Mad Men end?

[Griffin]

Mad Men probably ends around then too. Madman ended 2015.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Jesus. Mad Men to me. Breaking Bad in the leftovers. Breaking Bad to me is like kind of the last of the quote unquote, golden age of tv. Not that it ended sooner than Mad Men.

[Fran Hoffner]

It was like 2013.

[Griffin]

2013 or whatever. But like, and then like stuff like the Leftovers and Halt and Catch Fire and stuff, which is amazing. Feels like somewhat like where it's like it was a little less ubiquitous. There was more TV at that point, so the zone was more flooded. People weren't talking about like focusing on like a show at a time during that, like real boom time. It really felt like it's like Mad Men. We're all sitting down on Sunday night and watching Mad Men. That doesn't happen anymore. At all.

[Fran Hoffner]

No.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

But I feel like I cut you off a little bit. But the whole thing about the way in which he wrote this and shot this leading, you know, some argument to the idea that it's a little bit more of a movie than tv, I'm like. That's negated by then how he, like, packages it, even if creatively it came out in a burst as sort of like one big thing, rather than being written or shot as intentional episodes.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

I was gonna second. He edits them as such.

[Griffin]

The only. Right. The only argument I eventually sort of understood that distinguishes it a little bit. Right. Is that he did kind of make it as this one big chunk and he kind of cut it up later. And he broke a lot of the rules of tv. We talked about it already, how actors are used, where it's like they might drop in for one second in an episode. That's crazy. So, yeah, it's a little different, but I still think, yeah, fundamentally, this is episodic television. We watched it weekly. I watched it weekly. It's a great way to experience it because it's a great way to experience good tv.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Like, and it's different.

[Fran Hoffner]

More shows could benefit from having.

[Griffin]

And that's fine.

[Fran Hoffner]

A very famous person show up for two minutes and that's that.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I mean, that would be cool.

[David]

Rules is disclaimer. Is the Quoron show. Is that what it's called?

[Griffin]

That's right.

[David]

Yeah. So I was talking my brother about it, who was very frustrated watching it. I have not watched.

[Griffin]

I've heard. I. I know almost nothing about that show. I've heard a lot of frustration about it or like, sort of gotten waves of, you know, hearing bad vibes.

[David]

Yes. And that's a thing where Quran was like. I kind of think of it more as a six hour movie. I had originally tried to adapt this book as a movie and then it became a TV show. But I really think of it as a movie. And I've thought about reclutting as a movie, all that sort of stuff. Right. And my brother James's big complaint was he was like, episodes just end and then the next episode starts at the immediate following scene. And it really just feels like he made a six hour movie put credits, which is. I hate that at the hour mark. And I'm like, well, that feels sloppier to me of a guy kind of trying to avoid what television is as a format.

[Griffin]

And that's the worst thing about the bloaty, you know, post golden age streaming era of tv where these people were like, I want to make this movie. And like, no. And they're like, could it just be a bloated television show? And they're like, of course, yes, please. We'd love that.

[David]

You know, like, talked about in episode eight, that when they, like, cut to the Nine Inch Nails performance at like, minute 15, you're like, oh, interesting. They're fucking with the format that I've gotten used to. And then even episode 13 of this has the musical performance you're waiting for starring Colin McLachlan to come up. And then instead, that plays over Big Ed eating, like, instant lunch. Right?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

That alone is like, he's owning the medium of this is being watched in one hour increments. And I'm playing with your expectations of what happens in that one hour. And, like, playing with. Trying to force patterns upon it and understanding upon it and all of that, which says to me it is intended to be watched this way. And I'm like, if lynch wanted to do a like, 17 hour marathon, 18 hour marathon screening of this show, I'd imagine he'd be like, let me recut it so it plays as 18 hours rather than just like as if it were Netflix Autoplay.

[Griffin]

Right, right.

[David]

And then I'd be open to that being considered a movie.

[Griffin]

Right? Yeah, I agree.

[Fran Hoffner]

Okay. We all agree.

[Griffin]

Great. But no, no one's ever gonna. Well, I shouldn't say ever, but, like, I don't think anyone's really ever gonna sit down and watch this in a movie theater.

[David]

No.

[Griffin]

So, you know, can't that kind of be the most important conversation here? Like, even the fucking Made in America thing?

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

The O.J. documentary.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Which was a television show, but was treated as a movie and released as a movie and won an Oscar and all that stuff.

[David]

But also felt like a breaking point conversationally where it's like, do we need to redefine the rules?

[Griffin]

But that did screen in cinemas. You could go see it.

[David]

And I heard that worked very well as an experience. Yes.

[Griffin]

So, you know, maybe I should just go fuck myself.

[David]

But I think if you were to see an 18 hour screening of this, you'd be like, yeah, it's a weird experience watching 18 episodes of television in a movie theater. It wouldn't feel like I watched an 18 hour movie.

[Griffin]

Right. But okay, Twin Peaks. Ben, do you have anything you want to say before we begin discussing these episodes? Did they hit you any particular way? No. Wow.

[David]

Great.

[Griffin]

All right.

[David]

David. February. February movie preview. Okay. And I gotta say, it's a pretty interesting February we have coming up.

[Griffin]

Yeah, what do we got?

[David]

The Monkey actually called the monkey. New film from Oz Perkins, whose long legs I loved last year, starring another one of our friends, past and future guests, Tatiana Maslany.

[Griffin]

That's right. And looks very, very funny and cool and scary. Also very intrigued by this Martin Campbell action or cleaner with Daisy Ridley starring.

[David]

Daisy Ridley, someone I have always had very, very calm opinions about on this podcast. I'm very excited for. It feels like she's kind of ramping up her movie career again.

[Griffin]

Here's the thing. Oh, and then there's the Day the Earth blew up.

[David]

I was gonna say if that weren't enough, February. February ending with the first original feature length animated Looney Tunes movie ever that I have heard is excellent.

[Griffin]

And here's the thing.

[David]

The Day the blew up in a Looney Tunes movie.

[Griffin]

What's awesome about all this is that there's lots of interesting different kinds of movies in theaters that you go see.

[David]

And with Regal Unlimited, the whole point is you sign up and seeing three, four, five, six of those movies is easy and affordable.

[Griffin]

And I find that once, you know, you have the Regal Unlimited, right, you know, sort of the option of basically like, let me pop over to my theater, I have three free hours.

[David]

That's what's nice.

[Griffin]

You do it more.

[David]

You do it more.

[Griffin]

Go see the movies.

[David]

Go see the movies.

[Griffin]

Sign up now in the Regal app or at the link in the description in our show notes and use code blank check to get 20% off your three month subscription. And then you're going to be in the Crown Club. You're going to get rewards, you're going.

[David]

To build up points, get free popcorns.

[Griffin]

And sodas, 25% off candy on Tuesdays, 50% off popcorn, discounted ticket.

[David]

Go to the Regal Crown Club website. And as I said, it's a little deep, it's a little buried in here. There is a section where you can redeem your points for old promotional movie memorabilia like Red one socks.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Follow the link in the show notes, go to the Regal app, click on the unlimited banner and then follow the instructions to sign up and enter promo code blank check when prompted to receive your discount. And look, I'm just gonna say it again, David. Signing up for Regal Unlimited or maybe gifting a membership to a moviegoer in your life.

[Griffin]

Sure.

[David]

Great way to support the show. This is, this is a dream advertiser. Yes, A dream partner for us. We want to keep this going. We think it could benefit everybody, especially the movies. David.

[Griffin]

Yep.

[David]

You Know what I love?

[Griffin]

How about quints? New year, new chance for new clothes. Okay, well listen to me. I think everyone needs to try and refresh their liquid quality pieces but stay on budget. I think everyone needs Quince's Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $60. I genuinely love Quince. I think I've talked about this on the show before, but I am Quince pilled.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

I be loading up Quince and buying some nice soft shirts and good fitting pants all the time. They've got some activewear, performance tees, tech shorts. They've, you know, soft shirts that are warm which I've been really favoring in the winter. And you know, they're priced 50 to 80% less than the similar brands because they partner directly with the top factories. No middlemen.

[David]

Perfect.

[Griffin]

And they only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices.

[David]

No sharks.

[Griffin]

Anyway, so yeah, if you want to upgrade your closet this year without the upgraded price tag, you should go to quince.com check for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com check to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com check. Bye bye. Part nine. This is the chair is the name of the episode. Sort of. They all have these kind of pseudo.

[David]

Names the episode titles come from. Because this is like my experience being quotes.

[Griffin]

I mean they are titled as a kid. Yeah.

[David]

Where the episodes had no title within the episode. And then you'd read like the fucking compendium guide. And you'd be like that's what it's called.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

In a pre DVD like streaming error where you weren't pulling titles.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

You know, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

They are technically just by letters, by numbers, but they do all have these sort of pseudo.

[David]

Where were those titles? Were those only released for the first time on like I don't know when they were released. Yeah, on the, on the fucking disc menus.

[Griffin]

Are they on the disc menus? You can tell me.

[David]

I think they are. I think it says part nine. This is the chair or whatever. But I feel like on the episodes themselves it just says part number, right?

[Griffin]

It does, yeah. So in this episode, do you guys want to tell me what happens?

[David]

Way to pass the buck, David.

[Fran Hoffner]

Tim Roth is in the mix.

[Griffin]

I'm looking. All right, so it's like we're post episode eight. We've got the doppelganger is alive. You know, Mr. C has not died.

[Fran Hoffner]

They stitch him up, right?

[Griffin]

He gets stitched up by Tim Roth and Jennifer Jason Leigh. What do we think of them? Hutch and Chantal? Have we talked about them yet on this podcast? They're kind of new, right?

[Ben]

I don't believe so.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Right. This is. Right. This is where they're introduced. Well, she briefly in two, episode two. Right. You know, it's kind of like getting LeBron James to play pickup basketball with you or whatever. It's like, who's going to play two criminal lowlifes? For me, it's like, can we just get Tim Roth and Jennifer Jason Leigh? Right? Where it's like, well, yeah, they've done that a million times. It's like, yeah, but they'll be good, right?

[Fran Hoffner]

And they are.

[David]

Yes. Yes.

[Griffin]

Because a lot of the character actors in the Scumbags in this season are these faces you don't really know where you're like, wow, that guy is a really cool face. And like that. You know, that guy's got crazy hair, and I've never seen him before.

[David]

But this is kind of shorthand casting where it's not just the look. You're like, oh, I can, like, carry over and extrapolate from the history of other characters these people have played. Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

But, yeah, so they're there and they're around for, you know, for the whole rest of the season. They're sort of popping in and out. Like, this is not like one off. The other big thing, I guess, is the text message.

[David]

Is the text message around Patrick Schler kind of activating.

[Griffin]

Right. The dinner table. The conversation is lively.

[Ben]

Mr. C sends this text message.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Ben]

We're seeing that they're connected in some way, and then.

[Griffin]

Right. Dougie has thwarted the attack. Right. From the crazy assassin.

[Ben]

I use his proper name, Ike the Spike. Thank you.

[David]

They're doing their ensuing investigation, Keckner and Eric Edelstein, and the third guy, where they discover that Dougie has no history before, like, 1997.

[Griffin]

Right. He basically seems to have been invented out of whole cloth in 1997.

[Ben]

And these brothers seem like they have fun.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, totally.

[Ben]

I kind of like, I'm an only child and this. I was like, man, I wish I had some goofy brothers.

[Griffin]

Wait, which brothers are you talking about?

[Ben]

Keckner.

[Griffin]

Right, right. And what's his name? You know, Eric Edelstein. Eric Edelstein. And then Larry Clark is around there, too. Right? He's the other one.

[David]

Yeah. Not kids. Larry Clark.

[Griffin]

No.

[Ben]

Thank you for clarifying.

[Griffin]

Eric Edelstein. What do I know him best from?

[David]

Green Room.

[Griffin]

Yeah, I like Green Room. I forgot he's in that, though. He's in Jurassic World.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

He must get like, raptor or something.

[David]

I believe that's exactly what happened. Maybe gets eaten by the I. Rex.

[Griffin]

I guess he's just done a. He's a comedian guy. Who is this guy? Know this face?

[David]

Been on Doughboy several times.

[Griffin]

Wow.

[David]

He's a great Doughboys guest.

[Griffin]

Right? That's right. Okay. I knew. I knew the name.

[David]

He's been. Okay. He's the voice of one of the we bare bears. I think he's also now Daddy shark on the baby shark cartoon show.

[Griffin]

There's a baby shark.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, I thought you were saying on Shark Tank. I was like, I didn't know there was a parent. He's all. He's Mark Cuban's dad.

[David]

They'll. They'll be. They'll be negotiating. They'll be negotiating a deal. And then I'll cut to a giant cartoon shark in a tank going, I approve.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, they should have that.

[David]

He's like the banker on dealer. No deal.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Jesus.

[Fran Hoffner]

I have a new business opportunity, but.

[Griffin]

I don't know about this.

[David]

That was the panic that set into your eyes when I told you there was a baby shark cartoon show.

[Griffin]

What's your business opportunity?

[Fran Hoffner]

I don't want someone to steal it. People. Listeners have to promise not to take it.

[David]

You're saving it for the sharks?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, maybe I'll save it for the sharks. It is really good, though.

[Griffin]

Is it really?

[David]

What? Okay, if we don't. You think all of our listeners promise not to steal it?

[Griffin]

Copyright Fran Hoffner. Okay.

[Fran Hoffner]

Okay. Phil and I came up with this together. There should be artisanal slime for adults. And it. And it should be like how adult flavors are now. Like yuzu.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

Huckleberry.

[David]

So you're saying high end scents.

[Fran Hoffner]

High incense.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Maybe organic textures.

[Griffin]

Say it's made out of organic shit. Who cares if it is or isn't? Nobody's checking.

[Fran Hoffner]

This is a huge gap in the slime folk.

[Griffin]

Slime for distracted adults who just want the new version of a fidget spinner.

[David]

Or whatever I was gonna say.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, but it has to be elevated.

[David]

We went from fidget toys to, like, more mature fidget toys. So adults didn't feel embarrassed to be using fidget toys. We need the slime equivalent of that.

[Fran Hoffner]

Basically.

[Griffin]

That feels like something TikTok would show me ads for. And I would be like, how the Am I on this app?

[David]

And then we read an article a year from now, and everyone's angry and they're Like, Fran made how much off of this?

[Griffin]

Fran sold her slime business for that much money to Satan himself.

[David]

Penske Media. Wait, they're the same company?

[Griffin]

Okay, that's a great. That's a great call we got on that by Eric Edelstein. Being in the Baby Shark show, which my daughter must never learn about because.

[Fran Hoffner]

We'Ve escaped Baby shark and you escaped Minions, Right?

[Griffin]

I haven't yet gotten there. I'm worried that's just so overstimulating.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'm curious that if you don't.

[Griffin]

Movies seem very loud and overstimulated to.

[David]

You or to her?

[Griffin]

To me. She hasn't seen them yet. I'm just like. I feel like that's a lot.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'm just like, when would a child learn about the Minions if they haven't seen the movie?

[Griffin]

The second she sees one, there will be questions, I have no doubt.

[David]

How has she, like, stepped foot in a grocery store without seeing.

[Griffin]

I mean, she hasn't stepped foot in a ton of grocery stores is. I guess the answer must be nice. I mean, I'm not sending her out to do the weekly shop.

[Fran Hoffner]

And why not just take a shift?

[Griffin]

I mean, whenever she is a grocery store. I don't belong to the Parks Love Co Op yet. Who knows? Maybe I will one day. But whenever she goes and one, she loves it because she, you know, she's like, I want that.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Pointing at just naming ice.

[David]

She's just like us, right?

[Griffin]

Exactly like Banana. But like, I was thinking of maybe showing her Ice age.

[David]

Oh, sure.

[Griffin]

Because that seems like that's not. That's a pretty chill movie, right? Like, there's not a lot of people like Wizamo. Well, I'm not talking quality wise. I'm just talking like it's about a bunch of animals.

[David]

I'm just saying I can't speak to the manicness of 3, 4, 5.

[Griffin]

But it seems less manic to me than something like the Minions sort of world.

[David]

First one's like rock solid.

[Griffin]

The first Ice Age.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Yeah, because it's animals with a baby.

[David]

It's not profound art, but it is like rock solid family entertainment.

[Fran Hoffner]

They had a baby scratch remembering.

[David]

That's the weird. The first one is just like Three Men and a Baby with.

[Griffin]

With Leary, Romano and Leguizamo, right?

[David]

And it's like, oh, we don't know what to do here. And then the mammoths, right?

[Griffin]

And the mammoth's kind of an eeyore. And Guizamo's kind of like, eh. And lirius, like, geez, these Guys.

[David]

And it's very much about, like, the uneasy balance between the humans and the animals in this time.

[Griffin]

It'd be funny if he was like the tabor toothed tiger is just occasionally. He's like, 911 was fucked up, though. And you're like. It was. I completely agree with you, Dennis. No, 2002. It had happened.

[David]

Yeah. It was.

[Fran Hoffner]

Why? You just meant during the Ice Age.

[David]

Well, Fran is right.

[Griffin]

Well, that's true.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's not future ice age.

[David]

No.

[Griffin]

But maybe he could just kind of break the fourth wall.

[Fran Hoffner]

911 is gonna happen.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

And it's gonna be bad.

[David]

Right? Yeah.

[Griffin]

Dennis Leary over here.

[David]

The first one is very much like the uneasy relationship between humans and animals. And it feels like the. The. The Ice Age is coming to an end rapidly. And then the movies were hits and they were like, we're basically gonna ignore that humans exist forever. And every movie is us kicking the can on an extension event. Yes.

[Griffin]

We're just keeping it in the Ice Age, baby.

[David]

Right. Ice. Ice, baby.

[Griffin]

So, okay, so you have the fun cops. The cops are cute.

[David]

Are they supposed to be brothers?

[Ben]

They are brothers.

[David]

They are. Okay.

[Griffin]

And we have a sequence right where Andy and Lucy are looking at chairs. Occasional kind of interludes, I think, with them just maybe out of some respect for the audience that doesn't just want, like, Las Vegas murderers. And like.

[David]

It's for me. But no, it's Lucy literally just toggling between two color options on a chair and then them having a bit of a fight over it.

[Fran Hoffner]

I really turned on them in season two.

[David]

Interesting. In what way?

[Fran Hoffner]

Just that storyline is so drawn out such that.

[Griffin]

The kid.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. The paternity stuff. Wally. I love Wally.

[Griffin]

You love Wally? When he came back in the return. Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

And was weird, as many characters are in the show. But. Yeah. Whenever they're sort of on their shit, I'm sort of tuning out. But I know what it's like to try to buy a chair and it's hard.

[David]

I did think it was capturing a very specific modern phenomenon of endlessly toggling back between two options on a website and not knowing which to pull the trigger on. Yeah. The analysis paralysis of, like, so much.

[Fran Hoffner]

Of this feels like much more engaged with how weird technology is than the original and what we can and can't do with a computer or a phone.

[David]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

And sometimes it's just. It's crazy. You can do this, look at two different chairs.

[David]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin]

It's also like that thing of you write out a word a bunch of times and suddenly it Feels like you're spelling the word wrong. Anyway, you know what I'm talking about. We have a brief check in with Johnny. Johnny Horn, who has been played by various, you know, actors over the years, is played by a new character here. But is this become. This kind of like, he's. He's wearing this protective gear and like, whatever, you know, he's. His condition has only deteriorated further.

[David]

Uh huh.

[Griffin]

He's running. He runs around his mom. It's just a weird check in with a character you might have forgotten. Existence.

[Fran Hoffner]

I completely forgot.

[David]

I forgot he existed.

[Griffin]

Exactly. Yes. Okay. And then we have.

[David]

They go to visit Widow Briggs.

[Griffin]

Yes. Bobby, etc. Frank and Hawk go to see. Her name is Betty Briggs. Of course. Yeah. To be like, your husband seems to be dead and possibly involved with something.

[David]

We found the bottle she gives them. I saw this in a dream. I was told someday you'd come to speak to me. And then this cylinder hidden in the back of a chair.

[Ben]

It's so cool. I kind of wish I had secrets I could hide for people to eventually discover.

[Griffin]

I mean, you can do that.

[David]

You could do that right now.

[Griffin]

You could even leave messages in this podcast.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

For future, like, people to try and understand.

[David]

You can foretell things.

[Ben]

It wasn't me.

[David]

That's really smart.

[Griffin]

I'm gonna go buy a shaggy record.

[David]

That'S gonna absolve him of everything. He said it on the record. Now they can't pin anything on him.

[Griffin]

It would just be funny. I mean, you're literally someone who buries things canonically.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

So, like, people would start to be like, did Ben bury something else? And like, we haven't found it yet. And like, if I analyze everything he ever said, will I, you know, figure out what it is?

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

I definitely didn't do any kind of burial in California.

[David]

Well, okay.

[Fran Hoffner]

All right.

[Griffin]

That's one clue. State of California, so. And what's. And. Right. The big twist, of course, is that Diane gets the creepy text message. Yeah. We do also write. We have the. That that is where Jerry is talking to his foot still. This is sort of in this episode. Doesn't have a lot of action. I feel like it's mostly spooling things up again. Right.

[Ben]

I think it's important to point out that William Hastings is revealed to be an alternate dimension. Blogger.

[Griffin]

Blogger.

[David]

That's right.

[Griffin]

That's the thing. We have sort of the resolution to some extent of William Hastings, who is the Matthew Lillard character, who is. Who dies during this. This set of episodes that we're talking about.

[Fran Hoffner]

His head do explode to see him come back.

[Griffin]

You haven't seen him come back.

[Fran Hoffner]

So dismayed. Yeah. Because I thought we were done. Done with Lillard.

[David]

He's so fucking good. He delights. I'm just always so happy to see him.

[Griffin]

Right. So this is where he's being interrogated. And he's right, basically, like, yeah, look, man, I'm a blogger. There's weird shit going on. I didn't know what was. You know what I was opening up here.

[Fran Hoffner]

It was funny that it's like, yes, we were having an affair because of my blog, which doesn't really happen anymore, I feel. You don't think there's blog affairs, not with the gutting of media in our modern day. This is what they took from us.

[Griffin]

But. Right, but they are the string leading to Briggs. That's basically their purpose in the overall story.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

That they kind of encountered the Major in some way when they were investigating the Zone. Right. This, like, alternate dimension that he vanished into.

[David]

I read a really good profile on Lillard recently. I know we talked about him a lot in the first chunk of episodes on Return. And I was saying, like, my confusion about how it felt like he had this early 2010s, like, he's starting to get back out there in interesting supporting parts. And then it didn't totally stick, and then now it feels like it is weirdly sticking. Post Five Nights at Freddy's.

[Griffin]

Right. He's in that.

[David]

He's hot again, Ken. Yeah, but. But I'm like, after Descendants, like, hearing people loved him on this. There was a moment where he was in, like, trouble with the curve. And, like, he was in a couple other things where you're like, are people starting to value Lillard again? And he basically said that in the early 2010s, he, like, hit a wall. Was, like, really cynical and angry about, like, that his movie star status had not maintained and was in that position that a lot of people get him where they're like, I'm so desperate to hold into being. Hold on to being number one on the call sheet, that I hold onto that in increasingly worse and worse projects where he's in, like, the Direct to Video Nim's island sequel and shit. And then he, like, called his reps and was like, I'm gonna downscale. I'm gonna sell my house. I'm gonna move into a smaller home. I'm gonna, like, change my lifestyle. I want to be an actor. Your job is to find me good parts to do. I don't care about My status. I want to re engage with what I like about acting.

[Griffin]

Okay, but do you know who the star of Return to Nims island was?

[David]

Isn't it Steve Irwin's daughter Bindi?

[Fran Hoffner]

What the hell is Nims Island? Is this like, raps?

[David]

Exact. This is the fucking direct to video sequel on a movie you don't even remember existed. The original.

[Griffin]

The Original was a 2008 children's adventure starring Abigail Breslin and Jodie Foster called Nims island and Drag Butler. Jerry Butler's in it. Is he the villain or is he.

[David]

Dad Island, I think think Nim's island is a weird kind of like, children's Romancing the Stone thing where she is a author who writes adventure books, but then she gets caught in a real adventure and Gerard Butler is the projection of her fictional character. Like, he's like a fake Indiana Jones.

[Ben]

Well, I'm not going to get peanuts. Kind of parents sound. It's weird.

[David]

What I'm saying is that, like, only seven years before this, Matthew Lillard was doing that. Yeah.

[Griffin]

But now he's doing good. I hope he's doing good. I mean, I only want happiness for him.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

He's not like a. He hasn't done.

[David]

He seems like a lovely guy.

[Ben]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's not like he has, like a.

[Griffin]

Big crypto position that I don't know about. Right.

[David]

Like, no, no. This piece was really good. I love his work. But he was just sort of like, talking about the feeling of like, I'll make this a short sidebar. But, like, Freddie Prinze Jr. Has also complained about this. Sir Michelle Geller has also complained about this. The first Scooby Doo movie was so fucking big. Was one of the most successful movies Warner Brothers had had up until that point.

[Griffin]

The movie you love to talk about.

[David]

And then they immediately greenlit a sequel and then went to the cast and was like, fudge you. And they tried to cut everyone's salary.

[Griffin]

Whoa.

[David]

They told Freddie Prinze to take, like, a major pay cut. Like, everyone was sort of like, why are you treating us like shit? You seem to have some resentment for a hit movie. And then they dumped the sequel in March, and it didn't totally bomb, but it certainly was, like, way off from the first one. And then we're like, weird, this didn't work. I guess you guys are old news and kind of blame the failure on all of them. But, like, and Matthew Little was like, that kind of like, broke all of us that we, like, had a hit where we were like, oh, I guess we're all going to keep doing Scooby movies, and that will be able to, like, bankroll our weirder projects on the side. And immediately Warner Brothers was, like, seemed weirdly resentful of us, but they were kind of over.

[Griffin]

Right. That's sort of the funny thing to think. Like, not so much Lillard, because Lillard's like, you know, you can always use a Lillard. You could use him in Twin Peaks of Return. You could use him anywhere.

[David]

Right? Sure.

[Griffin]

But like, Freddie Prinze By 2004, 2005, it's kind of like, yeah, no, you're not gonna make the leap, buddy. Right. You know, he's the one.

[David]

And he had a similar thing to Lillard where then he, like, hard pivoted to voiceover for a while and now has started, like, acting on camera again. But, like, the Grudges, the. The same year as Scooby Doo 2.

[Griffin]

The Grudge with Sarah Michelle Gellar is, of course. Have you seen the Grudge, Fran? Scary.

[Fran Hoffner]

No.

[Griffin]

The same year, 2000, it seems scary.

[Fran Hoffner]

This show's scary.

[Griffin]

Yeah, this show is scary. How are you.

[Fran Hoffner]

Both?

[Griffin]

You don't love scary things. Although I know you've gotten much braver in recent years. When I first met you and we first became friends, you were not brave.

[Fran Hoffner]

No, like.

[Griffin]

And you had not really seen a lot of horror or mega sort of violent, scary things. Right. You would mostly avoid it.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, I'm braver. How is this? It's yucky. I wish I sort of agreed with the sort of central violent conceit that if someone's head goes sort of squish and crunch, it's like, maybe funny or something.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

Most members like, ew every time.

[David]

But you're talking specifically with Lillard Mode or sort of the recurring. The recurrent violence.

[Fran Hoffner]

The recurring head violence in episode eight. Yeah. It's the first episode where the two in the lab get all maimed and fucked up.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

With the Cube.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. The sort of, like, similar types of violence in this sort of wear me down, don't scare me so much. But I do think this show in general is quite unnerving.

[Griffin]

Very. It's also very. Just bleak in energy and sort of, you know, even though. Even when it's being funny, it's just like when you're visiting with Twin Peaks again and you're happy to see your friends. There's also just this mood in the town that's really, like, sedate, honking the woman. And then things like that happen where.

[David]

You'Re like, you're that's like an ecstatic.

[Fran Hoffner]

Get me out of here.

[David]

Right? Yeah. But wait, Nails on chalk.

[Griffin]

What were you gonna say?

[David]

No, I am starting. It is starting to get to me, living in lynch world for months and this isn't the first time I've said.

[Griffin]

Look, we're pivoting out soon.

[David]

Yeah. We're going on to Penny Marshall next. And that's going to be. We're not.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, that'll be so fun.

[David]

We're not calling me a liar on this.

[Fran Hoffner]

Such a good idea.

[Griffin]

We will do Penny Marshall on David.

[David]

Yeah, we'll do it one day. And that day is January 25th.

[Griffin]

No, but we are pivoting to, you know, more straightforwardly accessible work.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

We're offering all comedies or whatever, Penny.

[David]

For their thoughts, if you will. Winky, winky.

[Griffin]

So, okay, so, yeah, Jerry sees his foot. It's not his, but yes, I guess.

[Fran Hoffner]

I love David Petro.

[Griffin]

Talk about him.

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, I grew up watching the Warriors.

[Griffin]

Yes. David Patrick Kelly, of course, plays Jerry Horne, a sort of lesser character, but he is Luther.

[Fran Hoffner]

Warriors, come out and play.

[Ben]

I never realized that until this very moment. That's crazy.

[Fran Hoffner]

Into season one because I was like, warriors.

[David]

He's got an incredibly distinctive face, and yet he's able to change his appearance around it a lot. And every time I see him in something, I'm like, that is him.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's the voice. I always.

[David]

It's the voice.

[Fran Hoffner]

I was lucky enough to see him in the, like, recent into the woods that they. The narrator or what? And I. And that was another one where, like, halfway through, I was like, wait a minute.

[David]

Yes. He's always a wait a minute guy.

[Fran Hoffner]

For me, and I love him. I wish there was a little more of him in this.

[David]

Yes.

[Ben]

You excited for the warriors musical?

[David]

It's a concept album.

[Ben]

Oh, it's a concept album.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I think it'll. I mean, I'm curious about it speak for anyone, including friends of the show, but I think that it could become a musical.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

For the time being, it's a concept. Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

I feel like. I mean, I don't want to give Hollywood any more ideas for free, but I was always surprised that warriors wasn't something that sort of ballooned into. I know that's like, there's the movie and there's like, the video game.

[David]

That was the moment where it felt like, are they gonna try to explode this as a cult thing?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

And then I. Cause it was also like Rockstar being like, we're basically their blank check. It felt like of using the Grand Theft Auto cachet to be like, this is our dream project. And it felt like the game did not explain. Am I wrong about this, David?

[Griffin]

No, you're not wrong. And beyond that, it was kind of a logical thing. Right. Like if you're looking for like it makes so much. What surprises me is that it's never been remade. I know there's been, you know, discussions. Possible remake. Tony Scott, I know wanted to do one or whatever. But like it's.

[David]

David Ayer said.

[Griffin]

Yeah. I think Neville Dean and Taylor at one point were. Or one of those two.

[David]

The thing that kept on coming out about the versions that those people were working on was that the twist was to make it more grounded.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? That they were like, well, we want to treat it like real gangs, not the cartoony shit. And I'm like, who gives a shit?

[Fran Hoffner]

No, they should all be in silly stuff. They should get silly with fun. It should feel. I mean, I think that movie is good because it feels like a video game.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

To somebody's like, now you're in this level, now you're on that level. And that's a structure in movies I think we've run away from a little bit. But it's effective and it's fun.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

I don't know, it's one of those things where I'm like, nah, don't. Don't try to straight remake. It's something like what Lyn is doing is more probably a cool way to commented it from a new, you know, approach or whatever or video game. One day someone will make a great subway video game.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

Obviously you've got stuff like Streets of Rage or whatever where there's like a sub subway level you're battling through.

[Fran Hoffner]

But like, you mean an action driven one versus like you're running the mta?

[Griffin]

Well, that sounds fun too. Those kinds of things exist where it's like, would you like to painstakingly pretend to like drive a subway car? Yeah, you can do that, right.

[David]

That game is called your Dreams, but like.

[Griffin]

Like some sort of open worldy game that's set in a subway system. Right. Where you can.

[David]

Virtual sandwich artist simulator kind of game.

[Griffin]

Kind of a cool idea, right? Someone get on that.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

I mean it's cool in video games when there is a subway system like Grand Theft Auto. I think when it had the New York set games especially they would have a subway that you could like use. But it's more like a sort of them being like, yes, look, we can we have everything?

[David]

Yeah, exactly.

[Griffin]

Like in alien isolation, there's a big subway system ish. Between the space stations, like parts. It's always cool to get on the subway.

[David]

This episode ends with a Sky Ferrer scratching her arm.

[Fran Hoffner]

I was about to say, yeah, she'll do this, but she won't put out a new album.

[David]

Well, I mean, come on.

[Fran Hoffner]

Sort of pandering with a joke like.

[David]

That, you're not afraid to say it.

[Griffin]

Oh, wait, wait.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'm ready for the new music. What?

[Griffin]

Wait, it's this episode.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yes.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Because I wrote Sky Ferreira in all caps, question mark, scratch him.

[Griffin]

Yes. There's. I feel. Is there something else in this episode that we're not referencing? I don't know. Probably.

[Fran Hoffner]

I like when Gordon and Diane have a cigarette.

[Griffin]

Yes. You know, so. Right. But we have this kind of inkling that Diane is not on the level and is somewhat connected. Right. To these unsavory elements in Vegas and all that. But we don't really know what's going on yet. Right.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[Ben]

I guess. Do we want to talk about the thing in the chair? Bobby Smashing it.

[David]

The cylinder.

[Griffin]

Yeah, the cylinder.

[Ben]

And it referencing Jackrabbit's Place palace and.

[David]

Oh, right. It has the slips of paper in it. Yeah, Yep.

[Ben]

That's all important little details.

[Griffin]

Right. Which is like a place that he and his dad would talk about. Like this kind of made up place. Right. Jack.

[David]

Jack's Palace.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

I am very much watching this, trying not to put more or less important importance on any element that is introduced to me. You know, like, I don't know if it's just the way I've now trained my brain to process this, but I feel like I'm now veering wildly in the opposite direction of maybe how people watched it at the time where I'm like, I think if I'm trying to look for specific answers or clean resolutions to things, it will frustrate me. So I'm just taking every scene as it is.

[Griffin]

Yeah, yeah, no, that's fine.

[Ben]

Especially after the last episode.

[Griffin]

I think the way you watch the Return, especially the first time around, is to do exactly that. And then later, Right. If you want to be like, you know, let me cast my brain back or let me sift through things and be like, oh, I guess that did connect to that and that. And it did sort of resolve. Like there are things that kind of resolve or things that are explanatory in the background. Yeah, they do pay off. It's not like this is a show that just throws a Bunch of info out there, and it's like, anyway, life's meaningless. But then it is kind of a.

[David]

Show that I do think it's kind of.

[Fran Hoffner]

But I also think if you're, like, looking at all the numbers on those little pieces of paper in the cylinder, you're not going to find anything, you know, satisfying. Right. It's not like. It's not like the Lost stuff where there'd always be some new numbers to, like, punch into. Like, you can't do that.

[David]

The two shows, I just keep kind of like, comparing this to in my own experience of being someone who is actively watching and engaged in the feedback of it at the time and all of that. There's like, the Lost thing where it's like, this is solvable.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

Right. They're, like, seeding clues, and maybe not all of this is gonna work, but, like, anything they're putting in is towards some, like, fixed end.

[Griffin]

But God bless, that was wrong. I mean, the thing about Lost that I love Lost, but. Right. They would have things like. There would be the. The map the. That had been drawn on the lab, on the. You know, in the station. Like, there was this.

[David]

In the hatch.

[Griffin]

Yeah, in the hatch. Right, right. The black hatch had all this, Right. Light writing on it. And people were like, what does this mean? What does it. And then it turns out they were kind of like, yeah. I mean, there's like three things in there that we'd thought about, and there's a bunch of other shit where we were like, yeah. That sort of has the. The vibe of the kind of mysteries we've been doing. And maybe we fill it in or maybe we don't.

[David]

Well.

[Fran Hoffner]

And everyone I know who goes back to watch Lost is like, it's so much more fun to watch when you're not doing all right, when you're not wearing everything Wash over you.

[David]

But I also, like, I think about Mad Men and the experience of watching that show and that having long gaps between seasons and it being a show that felt very elusive and, like, the level of theorizing of shit where people were like, I think I solved it. Like, what's her name? Jessica Perret. Her character. Megan.

[Griffin]

Of course. Megan. Megan. Well, Draper. But Calvet. There we go.

[David]

Was wearing a shirt that famously.

[Griffin]

Yeah. People thought, is she gonna be Sharon Tate? Right. That Sharon Tate wore. Yes.

[David]

Right. And then they were like. And this with the Beatles, and it's Helter Skelter. So are they trying to tell us that she's gonna get murdered? Or, like, a season would end with something like, oh, the foundation of the new agency, like, Sterling Cooper Draper Price. And you're like, wow, so the next season's gonna be all. They're doing it their way. And then two episodes in, like, Draper torpedoes the whole thing. Anytime you tried to game out where that show was going, the show was like, we're not interested in this shit.

[Griffin]

No, my favorite thing about Mad Men, right, is that people keep being like, who I need for my new firm or my spin off is Don Draper. And then they hire him and he's like, so I just go to the movies all day and I'm constantly drunk.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And I'm not very nice to work with. And they're like, what the fuck? And he's like, I've always been like this.

[David]

And these, like, cycles repeat themselves, and things that feel like meaningless elements become huge. And things that feel like they're huge tee ups for the future of the show immediately are abandoned in a way that feels like accurate to life to me.

[Griffin]

I had a friend who was convinced that the opening credits of Mad Men of a man falling, you know, were like, they're like, that's the end of the show. Don will kill himself.

[Fran Hoffner]

So many people had that prediction.

[Griffin]

And I was like, I don't think so, man. I don't think that was what they were. I think they were just kind of going for a vibe with whatever graphics they got, you know, that is like.

[David]

The post loss shit. And then I think more and more shows are trying to do that right in the wake of loss. And I think, like, Twin Peaks starts that to a certain extent, but the success of loss, to be able to sustain that for a way, and to a certain degree, it's like broken people's brains.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. Well, I think Breaking Bad had that kind of puzzly stuff. Yes, too. And maybe Saul, But I never watched Saul where that feels more inherently baked into the structures that there's some, like, puzzle or mystery.

[Griffin]

But Saul, right, had promise of that. But it turned out Saul was kind of doing a different thing. It had the.

[Fran Hoffner]

Whereas I never got the sense that Mad Men actually had.

[Griffin]

No, it didn't. Like, that's what Griffin's saying. At the time, people's radars were kind of up more.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

David.

[Griffin]

Oh, hello.

[David]

Hi. How are you doing?

[Griffin]

I'm good. I'm good. I mean, Valentine's Day is coming up.

[David]

I mean, I was gonna bring it up. You're a married man.

[Griffin]

Sure. For me, there's only one place I trust.

[David]

1-800-Flowers.Com you gotta show your wife that you love her and that you care.

[Griffin]

Each year I'm ordering stunning, high quality bouquets from 1-800-flowers that my wife absolutely loves. And we're partnering with 1-800-flowers to make sure you're a Valentine's hero with this exclusive offer for our listener.

[David]

An easy sell. This. This is a great time of year to encourage people to order flowers for the love of their life. This doesn't need extra spin on it. We don't need to put any mustard on this ad.

[Griffin]

Reed offer with double the flowers. Double the roses for free. When you get one dozen, they'll double your bouquet to two dozen. It's the perfect way to say I love you without breaking the bank.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

1-800-Flowers. It always delivers.

[David]

Trust. I trust you when you say that. Yeah. This is all that needs to be said. Ding dong.

[Griffin]

And who's that at the door?

[David]

We should check quickly.

[Griffin]

Right?

[David]

I mean, I know we're almost. We're getting through this ad read.

[Griffin]

Okay, But I check the door. I'll tell you that I got a great bouquet from 1-800-Flowers. It arrived right away.

[David]

I'm just gonna walk to the door quickly.

[Griffin]

It's really nice. I didn't get roses. I got a sort of double. Yeah, yeah.

[David]

Hand outraged.

[Griffin]

Comes in a really, really nice container. Yes.

[David]

Who can plant a rose? Buddy.

[Ben]

My God. Dan Pluck.

[David]

Petunias, too.

[Ben]

It's been a while. How are you?

[David]

Dan Candyman. Cam. Been a dog's age. It has. It's been a long time since you guys have invited me to come over.

[Griffin]

No one invited you.

[David]

I felt like it. I felt it in the air. My ears were burning.

[Ben]

Wow. Dan Candyman, you look like crap.

[David]

It's been a rough couple years.

[Griffin]

Why? What's going on, Dan?

[David]

I come from the Candyman family, of course. Of the Montreal Candyman. And we're a flower family by trade. The name does tend to confuse people. Along with me singing a song that's a modified version of the Candyman, the Willy Wonka song. And it always confused people. So I'm actually here today selling candy.

[Griffin]

Oh, okay.

[David]

Well, I'll buy some candy to raise money for my high school's basketball team.

[Griffin]

Okay, cool. How much?

[David]

You're not gonna ask any questions about that?

[Ben]

What are m m? Well, you know, these are just gray shells. There's not a color in sight.

[David]

Look, I'll admit. Yes, I'm selling candy. That's not really why I came in here today.

[Griffin]

Okay, what's going on?

[David]

I need flowers. I no longer have the hookup. My family has completely divested.

[Griffin]

Oh, well. And I actually do have great news for you. Because all roses from 1-800-Flowers are picked at their peak, cared for every step of the way, and shipped fresh to ensure lasting beauty. The bouquet I got got came fresh, sat on our table looking great for ages. Didn't like wilt after two days. Like some, you know, local sort of bodega flowers you might buy or whatever.

[Ben]

Comes with a little packet.

[Griffin]

Little packet to sort of spruce them up and make them alive.

[David]

Gosh. Because this is a stressful time of year for me, you know, Valentine's Day is really rough on Dan Candyman.

[Griffin]

I don't.

[David]

Because I'm part of a very large polycule. I have to get a lot of flowers.

[Griffin]

I hate all your lore.

[David]

I think it's interesting and people are going to be excited.

[Griffin]

Well, you better get on it because bouquets are selling fast. Lock in your order today. And of course, if you do order a dozen roses, they'll double the rose bouquet for free. That's a great value. To claim your double roses offer, go to 1-800flowers.com check. That's 1-800-flowers.com check to get your double your roses offer. 1,800-flowers.com check.

[David]

Now that sounds great, but I have to admit my many, many partners have some pretty specific tastes. Double roses sounds nice, but by any chance does 1-800-Flowers offer kaleidoscope roses? Hand dyed 24 stems in a purple vase with wind chime included? I'm looking it up. Okay. They do have it. Great. What a great product. Would you like to buy 1m?

[Griffin]

Sure. Fine. Give me an M. There you go. Thanks.

[David]

That'll be $25.

[Griffin]

Wait a second.

[David]

I have to raise money.

[Griffin]

1,800Followers.Com Check.

[David]

David?

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

If I know one thing about you, okay, it's that you're tired of figuring out what's for dinner every night after night. Especially on those busy weekdays when. When you walk into the studio every day and you go, I'm so tired. I go, don't even finish the sentence. I know the one root cause of that problem.

[Griffin]

Busy weekdays. I just had it. Busy weekdays.

[David]

No, I'm saying it's you trying to decide what to make for dinner night after night.

[Griffin]

Busy weekdays. How do you make my weekdays less busy?

[David]

These issues are linked. I go, how are the twins?

[Griffin]

Sleeping.

[David]

You go, hundred. No problem there. I'm joking. Through the night. Yes.

[Griffin]

I have to feed my family.

[David]

You have more mouths to feed.

[Griffin]

And that is true. Although they just eat. They don't eat lovely meals. But I have to make lovely meal and I get home and my time limit is. My time window is limited. And it is hard to just kind of, you know, find a magic recipe in the fridge every single day.

[David]

What a compelling personal it is sort of experience this is. Yeah.

[Griffin]

I mean if you really want to get into it, it's basically like it's 5:30. Right. Dinner's got to kind of be on the table because everyone's going to bed around seven.

[David]

Right. Podcasting has ended 15 minutes before that.

[Griffin]

That's. That is why be honest. Anyone who listens to the show might notice that I am a little. But look, it's easy to find time to eat well because you can get 50 wholesome, hassle free meals to choose from every week to get delivered right to your door. These HelloFresh ready made meals that go from fridge to fork.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

In just three minutes. One, two, three minutes.

[David]

That's the journey. I like fridge to fork.

[Griffin]

It's the same high quality ingredients in restaurant or the flavor you expect from HelloFresh, but none of the ones work. Okay. So it's not like I hate this stuff you're talking about. You know, they give you all these pre packaged ingredients, you make a meal and that's fun. These things come together with minimal mess and just a five minutes of prep. Your oven does most of the work, not you.

[David]

But this is what's nice about hellofresh is they got a lot of variety. There's a lot of adjustment you can make on your end as the customer to serve your own needs. So as you're saying, you got two twins now that don't eat real food, but sooner rather than later. They will.

[Griffin]

They will.

[David]

And you can adjust your order 100%. Fit a family of five rather than a family of three.

[Griffin]

Yeah. You can get up to 10 free meals and a free high protein item for [e-mail] Check10FM. That's Check10FM.

[David]

That's interesting. That's interesting. Code. We've never gotten that code.

[Griffin]

No, that's why I'm repeating it.

[David]

Hey. And Green Chef is now owned by HelloFresh. So with a wider array of meal plans to choose from, there's something for everyone. I personally love switching between the brands because I'm verse. And now my listeners can enjoy both brands at a discount with us.

[Griffin]

One item per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only varies by plan. That's up to 10 free HelloFresh meals. Just go to HelloFresh.com. check 10 FM. It's HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit.

[David]

Episode 10.

[Griffin]

So we've got Richard being insane. Richard. Sorry to spoil horn. Right. Harassing Miriam, who's the woman who saw him commit murder.

[David]

Yeah. I'd say it goes beyond harassing.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Being very, very, very scary. Richard. Probably the, the most evil character in Twin Peaks. Thoughts, Fran?

[Fran Hoffner]

I agree.

[David]

I, I, I looked up this actor the other day. I don't think I've seen him in anything else.

[Fran Hoffner]

He looked really familiar to me, though, but I can't place him.

[Griffin]

Wait, which actor?

[Fran Hoffner]

Richard Eamon.

[Griffin]

Okay, so the actor's name is Eamon Farren.

[David]

It's an Australian actor.

[Griffin]

Yeah. I mean, he's also in Jennifer Lynch's movie Chained, which I've never seen, but maybe that's the connection here. I don't know, like, where they really found this guy. He has the most amazing face.

[David]

I was gonna say it's one of these things where, like, he's in the.

[Griffin]

Witcher, but I feel like none of you guys watched the Witcher.

[Fran Hoffner]

I watched the Witcher, but I couldn't, I can't place him in that either.

[Griffin]

Okay. He's the guy who's like, a huge piece of shit. Yeah. Evil army guy. Yeah. He's, he's not a good kid.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, actually, maybe I do know who this is in Witcher.

[Griffin]

A face like that, I think you're just rarely going to be cast as, like, Jim. Nice man.

[David]

I was going to say.

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, he reminds me of the Eyepatch brother on House of Dragon a little bit, who also has such a great face, who is called Aemond in that show.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

But not in life.

[Griffin]

I didn't watch season two of that show because I know it involves so much, like, baby murder. And I was like, I'm not ready for this right now.

[David]

I will watch it.

[Fran Hoffner]

I will tell you, that's a season of TV I finished watching, say, in like, the last weekend of July of this year.

[Griffin]

Gone.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's, I can't tell you a single thing that happened this season or how it ended.

[Griffin]

So, yeah, maybe I won't. I don't know.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, but you know. Oh, you know who I remember? Simon Russell Beal.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Love him.

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, he's in the mix.

[Griffin]

Yeah, no, I know. He's right. He's wearing robes and stuff. Amazing. He hadn't made it to Thrones until then. Wait, Griffin, what do you want to say?

[David]

I was going to say he has Such an inherently evil face. And I don't want to make this sound like a statement about the actor and I admittedly haven't seen him in other stuff. Right. But like Frank Silva, you know all the stories of lynch just seeing him on set and being like, wait a second, if you made this face and your look is so specific, Whatever.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

And he's doing kind of like a scary haunted house, like, and you're like, yeah, I get it. Within the language of it, if that guy does that, it reads as like scary evil.

[Griffin]

Right, right.

[David]

But it feels like he's kind of playing like scary evil in quotes, which makes sense because he's like more of a force than a ghost or whatever.

[Griffin]

Right. He's not. Right. Whereas, yes, go on this guy just.

[David]

Looking at anything, I'm like, this is the most evil who has ever lived.

[Griffin]

Absolutely.

[David]

Just him neutral before he even starts doing. And then when he throttles into like kicking through a trailer door, it then becomes that much scarier. And I like, I, I assume he is a lovely, well adjusted man and has much range as an actor and can play other things, but I see him in this, I'm like, they like conjured him through the depths of hell.

[Fran Hoffner]

When do we find out that he's a horn? It's not initially, right?

[Griffin]

No, not at all.

[David]

When he goes to his grandmother's house. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin]

And then he goes to Ben and you realize like, that's the connection. I don't want to say anything more because now I'm afraid of spoiling like sort of his origins or whatever. But yes, initially you're just like, who's this? And he's kind of just this like ball of lightning. Like that is like the worst thing in the world just tearing through town. You've also got to check in with Caleb Landry Jones, Caleb Laundry Bag and Amanda Seyfried in the trailer park run by Harry Dean Stanton. Things are also going bad for them. This is like the Bad Vibes time.

[Ben]

But Harry plays a little song.

[Griffin]

Yeah, he's playing the guitar, which I love. It's so great.

[Ben]

He's really like, I'm surprised how good of a singer he is.

[Griffin]

Right. So you got the Mitchum brothers, Rodney and Bradley, played by Robert Kneper, you know, TV character actor. Right. I mean, how would you describe Nefer? Obviously most famous for Prison Break. Yeah, people wrote a lot of weird fanfic about that guy.

[Fran Hoffner]

Who was he in Prison Break?

[Griffin]

Teabag.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, of course.

[Griffin]

It was one of those characters where they were like, He's a recurring villain. He's like a pedophile. He's like the nastiest villain in Prison Break. And immediately the viewers of like this 8pm fox show were like, more of him. Put him all over this show. What? What?

[Fran Hoffner]

My brother's always rewatching Prison Break.

[Griffin]

I know there's, there's some nasty allegations about Robert.

[David]

There's some bad stories, but I. I do think, like, both in terms of his public Persona and the roles he plays, it is that sort of just like immediate, this guy's bad news kind of thing. That's his vibe. Is that fair to say?

[Griffin]

Uh huh. And he. So he's in the show and you. Right, you. That's the whole thing with him. And then Bradley, who is played by Jim Belushi, who.

[David]

According to whom? Where are you getting that?

[Griffin]

According to Wikipedia. But you know who was initially supposed to play this role?

[David]

John Belushi.

[Griffin]

Paul Giamatti was supposed to play one of the two Mitchells. I'm actually not sure which. But you think it would probably be the Belushi one because it feels like Belushi is more of a stand in, you know, because it's like kind of one skinny, mean guy and one big kind of doofy guy.

[David]

Yeah. But Motts and Belush would be interesting together.

[Griffin]

Any combat is probably interesting, but I love the presentation of these guys as like Vegas heavies. Right. You know, like scary guys who you don't want to see at your door. But then all of the stuff we have with them is the goofiest, most like, airy, you know, ridiculous comedy. First. The first sequence is when the girl tries to swat a fly and hits Robbie in the head, who live with them screaming.

[Ben]

My favorite character.

[Griffin]

Yes, she's the best, Candy.

[Fran Hoffner]

She's so good.

[Ben]

She just. There's something about those moments where they're speaking to her and that recurring, like, comedy bit they do where she's just kind of spaced out. It's so funny.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And I feel like, you know, the further episodes we have with these guys, you know, with the, the box with Dougie out in the, you know, in the later episodes, it's just fucking hilarious.

[David]

This is one of the few things that feels like it's setting itself up in a very clear, propulsive, narrative way, which is like the threads are being pulled together, that Mr. Jackpots is the same guy who works at the insurance firm and Fischler has activated Sizemore. I know I'm getting ahead a little here, but these five episodes really Cover this sort of mini arc.

[Griffin]

Right. Like the. The wake of Mr. Jackpots, like, bankrupting a casino, kind of, and pointing out this insurance fraud and, like, his disruptive energies. Right, Right. What they do to this weird Vegas y Arizona ecosystem.

[David]

Sistlers activating Sizemore, who clear already was kind of in on his own scam with them, but also strongly dislikes Dougie.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

That there's this sort of, like, propulsive Dougie needs to be assassinated.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

Dougie needs to be taken care of. These problems. Right, Right. Can Sizemore point the mob towards Dougie so they take care of him themselves? Or Sizemore going to have to clean up the mess if they don't.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Yeah. The common animal. Me.

[Griffin]

Right. And so they ike the spike is the first attempt at that. That doesn't work. That's how they become aware of him. Dougie, meanwhile, has, like, gone to the doctor, and the doctor's like, you're now the fittest, handsomest man in the world.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Your old chart says you're a piece of not sure what's going on there.

[David]

Naomi Watts. I prescribe you him tonight.

[Griffin]

Exactly. I guess you got got to go home and break a bed dolomite style, right? Like, just have dolomite sex.

[David]

They do have David. That's a very good way of putting it.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

God.

[David]

Fucking human tornado.

[Griffin]

What if I, like, joined a dating app and my thing was, like, I want to have dolomite sex. Anyone, like, you know what I mean? Like, who understands this reference, let me know. Otherwise, don't get in touch.

[David]

I'm gonna throw out a couple reasons you shouldn't do that.

[Griffin]

I'm probably not gonna do it. I'm gonna be honest with you. Oh, boy. So they have sex. We have another episode of Dr. Amp. I forget what he's yelling about this time. Do you like Dr. Amp?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. He's like, good Alex Jones.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Like, people are like, who's the left? You know, Joe Rogan? Is it Dr. Amp?

[Fran Hoffner]

It's Dr. Amp, where he's like, there's too much sugar and everything's poison, which I basically agree with, though I like eating the poison, to be clear.

[David]

That garbage, as that's an exact choice.

[Fran Hoffner]

But I'm not happy about it. But I like eating it. Of course I like Dr. Well, I just love Ross.

[Griffin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you feel? We haven't really asked you what you thought of, like, original twin Pennsylvania. I know you found fire Walk with me. Very rattling and good. Yes. I think, to your surprise.

[Fran Hoffner]

Right?

[Griffin]

Yeah. Yeah. Which to A lot of people's surprise when they get around to that movie. They realize it's amazing.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. Original Twin Peaks. I just have my guys. I like my guys I don't care about. I like some of the more.

[David]

Give us a. Give us a little bit of who's your power rank and who's on your shit list.

[Fran Hoffner]

Who's on my power. I like the kind of evil people in the show because, you know, so I like, you know, the Horn brothers. And I like. Is it Rey. Shelly's not Shelly's Norma's like ex husband.

[Griffin]

Oh, no. That Ray is raised the other guy. The guy with Mr. C who tries to kill him and fails. You're talking. What is that guy's name? That's a. I forget.

[Fran Hoffner]

But I love that guy. I love Bobby. I mean, I think the arc of Bobby from original Twin Peaks to the Return, it's like so profoundly beautiful.

[Griffin]

Hank is who you're talking about.

[Fran Hoffner]

Hank, Hank, Jenny.

[David]

Hank.

[Fran Hoffner]

I love Hank.

[Griffin]

Chris Mulkey, he's just one of those guys who are like, oh, I know Chris Mulkey and he's in a lot of Twin Peaks, but he's the 18th most important character, so I forget what he does. Sorry. Go ahead.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, and I like Audrey. I don't really care about James.

[David]

I like James a lot.

[Fran Hoffner]

I don't care about Lucy and Andy.

[David]

You're naming my favorites.

[Fran Hoffner]

Sorry.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I like the more open hearted characters. Griffin. The kind of sweetie pies I do like.

[David]

I, I think holistically across the entire Twin Peaks project, Dana Ashbrook is maybe the most impressive performance.

[Fran Hoffner]

Totally.

[David]

Right. I think like what McLaughlin is doing specifically on the Return trumps that. But then I also think like Ashbrook remains the second best performance on this. Like, I think, I don't know, we've talked about it before, but it's just kind of astounding the range he has to be able to play all the different sides of what lynch wants. Whereas it feels like a lot of characters or actors only land on one side. Like the fact that he is the character who's shared on both of our lists when we maybe show preferences to different sides of Twin Peaks is like he's kind of the only character that feels like he can adjust and adapt to any type of scene he's in.

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, and I think lynch is kind of interested in the perpetuation of a certain kind of, dare I say, male violence, which comes up again and again in this work and other stuff. And with Bobby, it feels like he's exploring why Someone might become violent. And also, what can save them from this violence? Because he's such a dynamic and horrible character upon introduction. And then you start to get into the weeds of, like, what his life is like and what he's motivated by and this sort of disaffected youth culture thing that he comes to represent. I absolutely love him. I wish there was more of him in the return, but there's sort of just enough also to maintain something.

[David]

It's so high impact whenever he is in there. Well.

[Fran Hoffner]

And he's got the Knoxville silver hair that also, like, second I see someone who's gone all gray, I'm sort of moved.

[David]

One of the most incredible.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Why am I not going gray? What's going on with my fucking hair?

[David]

I don't know. You seem too calm. You should try to find more things to get stressed out about.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'm getting a lot of gray.

[Griffin]

My dad went gray very young.

[David]

I'd love to go gray.

[Griffin]

My dad was, like, one of those guys went gray in, like, his early 30s or whatever. And it was kind of always his look.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And so I was always like, I bet that happens to me. And instead. Yeah. I'm always stressed out. You hear me on this show. Heard me melting down about talking about Subway games.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Just now. Where's my gray hair? I have a little in the beard.

[Ben]

A little. Yeah.

[Griffin]

Just. Just a little bit.

[Fran Hoffner]

I had an old roommate.

[Griffin]

Again, no sympathy for Sims. Doesn't have a Subway game. Doesn't have gray hair. No one cares.

[Fran Hoffner]

I have a friend who. An old roommate who had the streak. The, like, Bride of Frankenstein streak, which I'm always like. It's crazy. Oh, rogue. Sure.

[David]

Yeah. No, I'm a big fan. I think Greyhair rules.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

And I think, like, not to speak ill of the late Tom Sizemore, someone who had a sterling reputation and never did anything bad.

[Griffin]

Right. I mean, this show is filled with people where you're like, just don't scroll too far on Wikipedia page. Kind of just Right. Kind of try to hit the halfway mark.

[David]

Yeah. But he has, like, such unnaturally dyed hair in this, and I would say it doesn't feel like it doesn't fit for the character he's playing. But I'm just like, when you're looking at him existing in a show with a lot of people who have embraced their age.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

You're like, all of them look better.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. I understand why McLaughlin's hair is dyed because he's sort of unstuck. But I do think he's also quite Striking looking now with all the gray hair.

[Griffin]

I mean, he has very much figured out this act of his life in that kind of gold bloomy way of. Right. Like, you know, like, I am kind of at my best in my 60s.

[David]

All of a sudden, that's the case for almost everyone, as you said. Like, it is. Let's talk about Knoxville for half a second here.

[Griffin]

A great example.

[David]

Right? Like, Jackass would probably fit on Twin Peaks, too. He would be good.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

Forever starts filming with him with the dyed hair. And then he's said that it was just like. Like, pandemic filming shutdown. Stop touching it up. And then we restarted filming, and I was like, it. What if I just don't re DY it? And all of us are just like, yeah, this is amazing. This is exactly how it should look.

[Fran Hoffner]

I mean, Forever is so good in part because it's about, like, the aging body.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

And what the body can handle.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

That movie is amazing.

[David]

Yeah. Rules.

[Griffin]

So, okay, so, right, we have. Right. Richard. Episode 10 is a lot of Richard. Not Richard. Sorry. No. Yeah, it is Richard tearing through. Right. So first him harassing Miriam, then him going to. Right. His. His mother's house, knocking Johnny to the floor, basically trans. Stealing her shit. His grandmother. Sorry. Not his mother. So you got a lot of that. You have Albert gets. Goes on a date with Jane Addams. That's fun.

[Fran Hoffner]

Love. Talk about gray hair. Talk about hottie.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Seriously.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

She's so good on the Idol. I'm not lying. But we don't have to get.

[Griffin]

She was one of the better parts of the Idol. Right. I do remember at the time, people were like, yeah, you know, Jane Addams is fun. And there's someone else that's kind of fun on it. Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

Azaria.

[Griffin]

Who?

[Fran Hoffner]

Hank Azaria.

[Griffin]

Oh, Hank. Oh, he's in it.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Is that who I'm thinking of that people kind of praise? Yeah, I guess it must have been. I'm looking at this cast list.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Troy Savannah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, well, Divine. Divine. Joy Randolph.

[Griffin]

Oh, well, Is she good? Oh, yeah, sure.

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, she and Hank Azaria and Jane Addams are like her teammates. Right.

[Griffin]

They're the managers who are like, stop fucking the Weeknd.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

They're like, Rose Depp is like slow motion, smoking a cigarette or whatever she does.

[Fran Hoffner]

I thought Troye Sivan was kind of good on it.

[Griffin]

Okay. I'll never watch it.

[David]

Yeah, me neither.

[Fran Hoffner]

Definitely don't. But it lingers in the mind like few else.

[Griffin]

But that's a very fun character, the Jane Addams medical examiner character. Like, that's a great example of Twin Peaks, the return character, where you're like, this is literally just a dusting of cinnamon. Right. Like, it's not pivotal to anything, but we have found a great role for a great actor. Here she is.

[Fran Hoffner]

And Miguel is just so good. I just think even in the original episodes, one of my favorites. I always love, in any kind of weird or supernatural shit, the one character who's like, this is so weird. This is so stupid.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

Who's just the obvious cynic. I think it's just always appealing. And he's so good at it. And I'm so moved by him because he's no longer alive.

[Griffin]

Yes. And he's just one of my favorite characters in the show generally.

[David]

I'm trying to see if I can find the quote about it, but he was very sick by this point. He was also a regular on one of the NCIS shows. Maybe New Orleans, really, L.A. just will.

[Griffin]

Always make me laugh.

[David]

But, like, shot. I want to say, like, what were.

[Griffin]

Anyway, sorry, go on. Yes.

[David]

He shot his final episode, like, a week before he passed away. He was one of those guys who insisted on, like, still working until the very end because he needed to, like, not to feel like he was still, you know, engaged with something.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

And they just talk about, like, you can find these quotes that I cannot find right now of. Of, like, cast and crew from NCIS la, where they just kept on trying to, like, write around him and be like, let's lighten his workload because he's not doing well. And he was just like, no, I gotta do this. And would come in and was just like, the consummate fucking pro and would give his all and, like, nail it in one take. And then he'd, like, step off and they'd be like, he is in such an astonishing amount of pain right now. And it is one of those things of, like, there is such an innate. I don't know, there is this, like, like, weird, profund humanity to this character who is not given a ton of, like, emotionality. And it's obviously, like, even more weight now that we've, like, lost him.

[Griffin]

But, like, then, yeah, Albert is a workaholic.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

He's not empathetic. The whole original clash that he has with Cooper is that he shows up and he's like, I hate this town. Everyone's a bumpkin. Everything's so slow. And Cooper's like, I love it here. It's regenerate, you know, it's re energizing me. And, like, that's their kind of fundamental.

[David]

There is something to. I'm not saying it's a metatextual thing. I think it's like the weird, like, nature of on camera acting. There is something that is being transferred from the amount of effort it takes Miguel Ferrer to just, like, stand at this point in his life and to, like, look at people. That lends it, like, such a weight when so much of his performance is, like, standing and nodding.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

You know, it is done with, like, such depth. Depth of like, this guy really wants to be here. And these actions take a lot out of him, as minimal as they might seem.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

It lends some sense of import.

[Fran Hoffner]

And I don't think this is. I guess I don't know where it goes any more than you do, but seeing that character start to come around.

[Griffin]

Right. Start to open up a little bit.

[Fran Hoffner]

He'S never gonna sort of be like, I assume, like full force sort of believer kook. But even these little kind of come, like, realization moments feel quite moving, all considered, too.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

It's great.

[Fran Hoffner]

Because that's what aging is also.

[David]

Yeah, that's.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Right.

[David]

But that's why we should all go gray. That's why you shouldn't fight it.

[Griffin]

The other big thing in episode 10, right. Is like, the sort of the chain of events of, like, Patrick Fishler tells Tom Sizemore, you need to remove Dougie. And so Tom Sizemore tries to convince the Mitchum brothers, like, he's your problem.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Like, you know, to try and, like, you know, solve the problem for him. Right.

[David]

We also, in Dougie's boss, the boxer, what's his name? I'm realizing, like, 40% of these twin Peaks episodes is me just going, what's his name again?

[Griffin]

I know who you're talking about. Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

Bash.

[David]

Right. I. I don't remember which episode it's introduced in, but he, like, gives credit to Dougie through his weird doodlings, pointing his attention to the thread of where the money is going, which would have ruined the company if they had not taken insurance policy out against the insurance policy. So actually, thanks to Dougie, everyone has ended up.

[Griffin]

Everyone's in great shape. Right.

[David]

Right. No one's in trouble. But you have this sort of tension of, like, well, knowing Dougie cannot really string together a sentence. Will he be able to explain this to Jim Belushi in time to not be shot?

[Griffin]

Because Jim Belushi doesn't seem like a patient person.

[David]

No.

[Griffin]

Yes. End of the episode is Rebecca Del Rio performing, of course, from Mulhollandrava. Long time all right. But. So part of Moby. Oh, Moby's there.

[David]

I was. I was wondering if it was.

[Fran Hoffner]

He said, that's Moby.

[David]

Yeah, I can clock over her shoulder.

[Griffin]

He's the guitarist.

[David]

Huh?

[Griffin]

Yeah. I never clocked that. You've worked with Moby. Should we not talk about that? We can cut that out.

[Fran Hoffner]

You've worked with Moby. Should we talk about it? Yeah, we shouldn't talk about it. But I worked with Moby on something interesting.

[Griffin]

Was he next?

[David]

Nice.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, he was nice. He was pretty. Yeah, he was nice.

[Griffin]

Cool.

[Ben]

Is he a, like, vegan?

[David]

I would have heard about it by now.

[Fran Hoffner]

It never came up, sort of in discussion. But he has these big tattoos.

[David]

Right. I was going to say. Remember when talked less to his face and more to his forearms? You might have gotten an answer.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Everyone. Eminem, it's. Without me, I think. Right. Like, you know, he releases without David. You're looking at me, and it's like, oh, Eminem's back. He's uncorking, like, all his comic stuff, and he's like. And he rags on Moby in this one, and you're kind of like, Gilga Moby. Like, Eminem's. That's, like, the softest target imaginable. Like, that's the best he could do is. Nobody listens to techno.

[David]

Some of his targets are weird and, like, him drilling down on Chris Kirkpatrick.

[Griffin]

Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah.

[David]

And I'm like, is it just truly that it's a good rhyme?

[Griffin]

It probably.

[Fran Hoffner]

It must be.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I just remember, like, there's like, an attack on Moby in the music video. Like, a fake Moby. And it just felt like, even to teen me in 2004, I was like, I don't think anyone's really worried about Moby, like, doing anything right now.

[David]

That's, like, what happened?

[Griffin]

It's not on your corner.

[David]

When Eminem briefly announced he was retiring at, like, 33, you were like, yeah, after the movie thing, maybe you do need a. It feels like the tank's a little empty.

[Griffin]

Okay. So. Yeah. And right. Part 11, we've still got. We've got more of the Caleb laundry bag Amanda Seyfried drama. It's like all these Twin Peaks characters or not. But, like, a lot of these Twin Peaks characters have had kids who are just, like, disasters. Right, Right. It's like, you know, Charlie and Bobby have Becky. Right. It's Becky and Richard. And, like, it's just. But it's like, well, you start the episode out in the 90s they were all these troubled teens or whatever, but.

[David]

But they're like soap opera trouble teens versus these being like bad people.

[Fran Hoffner]

They're perpetuating all the worst parts of their parents.

[David]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

Like, or their grandparents even. I feel like Richard Horn is more of a Richard Bamer because the Twin.

[David]

Peaks teens are like Grease, Rebel Without a cause.

[Griffin]

Right, Right. They're troubled teens of a. Of a prior youth. And now all these teens, 20 somethings, whatever they are, it's like this nasty, modern, kind of like depraved, you know, listless youth, like with no jobs and no prospects and they're like living and stealing from each other and like on drugs. And it's like it just feels more like real or in your face. Even though in Twin Peaks a lot of the same problems are, you know, being presented in soapier ways.

[David]

The Bobby Shelley conversation with Amanda Seyfried where they're like trying to put like a wall down and be like, you have to fucking stop it with this guy. And she's alternating constantly between like, I love him and I hate him. Don't worry, I never want to talk to him again. Feels like.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

Not this like heightened dramatic version.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Of a like doomed romance. It is like, oh, this is like a pretty uncomfortable look at someone caught in an abusive relationship with a dangerous person.

[Fran Hoffner]

Some of that just feels like a different way in which we talk about young people on TV now though. Also, like, we don't really have those kind of like soapy characters anymore. And I think the concept even of like a CW teen show is very different now.

[David]

Striving for a greater sense of psychological realism than it or going like whole.

[Fran Hoffner]

Whole hog fantasy like history thing. But it's no longer doing like One Tree Hill or like Everwood or.

[David]

How much of that do you think is like a fear of the quote unquote insensitive portrayal that like a lot of those types of shows were baked around these big dramatic arcs of things that are treated not like insensitively but are treated broadly versus now people wanting to be like. It's like a real snapshot of what these things are like. Even in the sort of broadest versions of those shows people want credit for. This is an accurate representation.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. I think it's less about sensitivity and more just like people's imaginations are so much smaller and are not willing and everyone takes everything so literally.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

I feel. And some of those things were great because they were these like exaggerations which now like our brains can't process. Whereas like I don't know. You see like a. I'm just whatever my Twitter feed is now. I'm always seeing old clips from Glee and people are like, this is crazy. This was on the air. And it felt a little crazy at the time, but it was way closer to what shows were like, yeah, back then than what they are now.

[Griffin]

Glee had almost a throwback element with their. It felt like this. They were always doing very special episodes and all that, but just about more lurid stuff in a way. Right. Glee had this frankness to some of the very special episodes that was more contemporary. Sure. It's not really a defensive Glee, which is not a show I ever loved.

[David]

You weren't a Gleek.

[Griffin]

I was not a Gleek. But it did, you know, for a minute there, it was basically like, can we do Friday Night Lights with songs? Right?

[Fran Hoffner]

Can we have this sort of of.

[Griffin]

High intensity, real teen shit drama? But also it's like a silly musical with jokes.

[Fran Hoffner]

And now it's Euphoria, you know?

[Griffin]

And now it's euphoria, which is just everyone all the time screaming like, this is happening to me. Like. And you're just like, can you all shut up?

[David]

Like, being quiet, like, thinking of shit. Like the fucking Max Gossip Girl reboot and the creators coming out and being like, don't worry, we're really going to examine privilege head off.

[Fran Hoffner]

Right.

[David]

And I'm like, what is the point?

[Griffin]

But right. The OC Gossip Girl era of aspirational shows where you're like, don't you want to be part of this world? But also explore the dark side.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Now that's whatever and can't be done in a way that doesn't feel corny. What.

[Fran Hoffner]

You know what Twin Peaks season one reminds me of sometimes? Veronica Mars, which was a great example.

[David]

Veronica Mars.

[Fran Hoffner]

Bobby is very Logan Echols.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Veronica Mars is 100% fuck. What's his name? Matchbox 20.

[Fran Hoffner]

Rob Thomas.

[Griffin]

Rob Thomas. I mean, a different guy, but he has the same name. The creator of Veronica Mars, Rob Thomas, being like, right, Can I make a kind of noir y Twin Peaksy teen show? He succeeded for a while. Kind of fell off the rails of, you know, I think season three. Veronica Mars is really bad.

[David]

But, like, I remember being an uptick.

[Griffin]

Well, no. 4 is. There's only three seasons before the revival. Yeah.

[David]

Why did I think.

[Fran Hoffner]

And then the movie.

[Griffin]

Yeah, it had a bunch of three.

[David]

Is the one that ends with her signing up for the Academy, taking the.

[Griffin]

Test where they kind of are trying to pivot to maybe a reboot Ish. Season four. And then it just got canceled.

[David]

Maybe the season four was an uptick. It's the four I wrote in my head.

[Griffin]

Yeah, maybe.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And then Riverdale.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Which I never watched much of. That felt like where I'm like, okay, we're making copies of copies at this point. Because Riverdale is like, what if Archie was Twin Peaks? And you're like, what if? And they're like, by episode three, they're like, archie has magic powers. And I'm like, okay, well, you've kind of gone beyond Twin Peaks at this point.

[David]

But that's the thing. There's also the weird effect of that being like, can you only get away with that level of, like, operatic storytelling if you're couching it in the sort of, like, irony of. Of. Isn't it funny we're doing this with Archie?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

I mean, I've. I feel like I've referenced this before, and I was talking about this with someone recently, and it caused me to, like, pull back up the file. But there was the fully buried, announced shot and never released Diablo Cody Powerpuff Girl show for cw. That was very much them trying to do the same thing.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, I thought you were gonna talk about the Heathers. That got canceled also.

[David]

No, I didn't ever watch that. That.

[Griffin]

Oh, you didn't want to. The buzz was so good. Sorry.

[David]

How was it?

[Griffin]

I didn't watch it.

[Fran Hoffner]

I haven't seen it.

[David]

Yeah, the Powerpuff Girl show felt like an absolute breaking point of them being, like. It somehow became euphoria level in Powerpuff Girls.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

And trying to make the, like, electricity off. The tension of. You think these characters are innocent. We're making them do insane, like, ecstatic things. And that felt like a cultural crash moment that happened.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

We must make something new. Veronica Mars. God bless it. Good show. To be clear, I generally love Veronica Mars. That was new. Yes, it was. Using old tropes or whatever. Like, all new stuff. Do that again.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Come on. Chop chop.

[David]

Yeah, Ben, do that again.

[Griffin]

Oh, I'm seeing here that broadcast television is dead, so unfortunately, no.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's kind of back, though. Is it Dr. Odyssey?

[Griffin]

Should I watch that? What is that?

[Fran Hoffner]

It's so what if you were a doctor on a boat? Joshua Jackson.

[Griffin]

My interest jumped up 100%.

[Fran Hoffner]

Did you not?

[Griffin]

No. I don't know anything right now.

[Fran Hoffner]

He's the titular officer, Don Johnson.

[David]

But Don Johnson's the captain of the boat.

[Fran Hoffner]

He's the captain of the boat.

[Griffin]

I can see it. I just put him.

[Ben]

Is Odyssey, though.

[Griffin]

No, the boat.

[David]

He's the doctor.

[Fran Hoffner]

He's the doctor on the boat.

[Griffin]

Oh, but that's such a good idea for a show. It's like how they call Murphy Dr.

[David]

House because he lived in a house. They call this guy Dr. Odyssey because he lives on the Odyssey. Does that joke even make any sense? Who else is on Dr. Odyssey? No one laughed, Apparently.

[Griffin]

Pippa Sue. Philippa sue of her.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

And Don Johnson, as you might say.

[Fran Hoffner]

There's that clip going around of Caper Lamp being poisoned by a smoothie made by Margaret Cho. And that's, like, one of many things that Dr. Odyssey has to deal with.

[David]

Wait, that happens on Dr. Odyssey?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. Kate Berlant gets poisoned by Margaret cho.

[David]

Smoothie on Dr. Odyssey.

[Fran Hoffner]

There's something in the smoothie.

[Griffin]

What's in there?

[Fran Hoffner]

I don't know. I think it's making her break out in hives.

[Griffin]

Is it? Yeah. Okay. That sounds great. I'll watch it. I'll. I'll tune in tomorrow.

[Fran Hoffner]

I also, I don't watch any of the, like, 911 Lone Star spin offs, but my parents watch all those.

[Griffin]

I see clips occasionally from Twitter.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yes, me too. But if you want to know where any Lost alumni is, they've shown up on that show. It's just all Lost alumni.

[David]

I feel like I saw a clip of Gina Torres yelling at a young.

[Fran Hoffner]

Girl who had a harmonica in her mouth.

[David]

Yeah, that's one of the more that's crazy things I have.

[Griffin]

This is what I mean about broadcast.

[Fran Hoffner]

They're like, time to get the Vaseline.

[Griffin]

They still have to fill those hours.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

And there's still actors who want to make money doing it and so on.

[Fran Hoffner]

Maybe it's back.

[Griffin]

It's like just stealth back, but nobody's talking about it, really. And then once in a while, people will be like, do you know there's like, harmonica's getting stuck in mouths.

[David]

Dude. The two of you, Ben and David, know what Harmonica Girl looks like?

[Fran Hoffner]

No, because it's like, it's really crazy.

[David]

It's like killer clowns from outer space. Space makeup. Like, it is so fun.

[Griffin]

That looks good.

[David]

And Gina Torres is having, like, an.

[Fran Hoffner]

Intense, emotional conversation, breathing out through the harmonica is translating. Like her friend can understand what she's saying through the harmonica, which is what's crazy. Crazy, right.

[David]

Her friend is going like, she's saying that her mouth hurts.

[Fran Hoffner]

And then there's all these people in the replies on Twitter being like, this would never happen.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

You think? But you're like, I don't believe you. On Twin Peaks, to get us back to that Hastings, Matthew Lillard. Right. Takes everyone to see, like, to the forest. Right. It's like the woods.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And he's like, so I saw Major Briggs here. I saw his head.

[David]

Just the head said Cooper.

[Griffin]

Yeah, yeah. And it said Cooper. And this is where Gordon Cole, played by David Lynch. Do you enjoy that character for him?

[Fran Hoffner]

You know, in original, no. In the Return, yes.

[Griffin]

I kind of agree with you. In original, you're kind of like, he's having fun, but this is a little much. And then in this season, in the Return, he's such a. You really need him. Like, he's kind of the guy you're grabbing on to.

[Fran Hoffner]

He's steering the ship more. Yeah, yeah. So I really like him. In the Return. Yeah. And he sees a spiral in the sky.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

A vortex.

[Griffin]

That's right. He sees this sort of very Lynchian image of this crazy vortex, Seemingly sees.

[David]

It for the first time, and sort.

[Griffin]

Of ganks him out of the way.

[David]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

It would be scary if you saw that for real.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

He's good at acting, David Lynch.

[Griffin]

Yeah, he is kind of.

[David]

I mean, I watched the fucking Fabelman scene maybe once every other.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, it's awesome.

[Griffin]

I watch it all the time.

[David]

It is so good. Yeah.

[Griffin]

It's one of those things where you're like, that anyone had any other idea for this scene is unimaginable to me. Like, this is. Oh, this was always meant to exist.

[David]

I feel like Spielberg hasn't said who it was, but that he had someone else he was gonna offer it to. And then it was fucking. What's his name? Kushner's husband, Mark Harris.

[Griffin]

Mark Harris was the one, according to Mark Harris, and I believe him, who suggested David lynch initially. And it was a brilliant statement.

[David]

He was like, you know, you should cast as Ford. And he was like, I have someone in mind. And he said, david Lynch. And then Steeler's like, God fucking damn it.

[Griffin]

Yes. And lynch was the one who had to be talked into it because everyone else was like, that makes so much sense.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

But. Yes. And then after they see this vortex, Matthew Lillard comes down with a terrible case of head explosion.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Ben]

It looks like he was killed by the same thing that killed the Woodsman. Oh, right. No, but I'm saying the wound looks like the same kind of wound that the people in the room with the glass box had.

[Griffin]

Oh.

[David]

Oh. Like the way.

[Ben]

The trajectory and the way that he was.

[Griffin]

So maybe you're right, but you're saying.

[David]

Internally, the Logic is that the Woodsmen are who have killed him.

[Griffin]

No, I'm not sure that.

[Fran Hoffner]

I mean, we see them encroaching.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

And get in the car. Right.

[Griffin]

That is how Iovis took it, is that we are seeing sort of an invisible version of that. Right. Like, you know, like where we've seen the Woodsman in episode eight essentially crush people. We're basically seeing that again, except this time we don't see the Woodsman. And that's how it would look to most people, is someone's head just mysteriously going splat.

[David]

Got it.

[Fran Hoffner]

What do you guys make of the Woodsman?

[Griffin]

Well, we talked about them a fair amount on episode eight. No, I'm not saying we can't talk about.

[Fran Hoffner]

All right, I'll listen to it.

[Ben]

Do you like their look?

[Fran Hoffner]

Scary.

[Ben]

How do you feel about soot?

[David]

Soot in general as far as like a look?

[Fran Hoffner]

Not crazy about it.

[Ben]

Really?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. Kind of dirty. No.

[Griffin]

Wow.

[Ben]

I mean, because I'm toying with the idea of introducing soot into my day to day.

[David]

Don't you think you'd get uncomfortable, though?

[Griffin]

Don't you think you would probably annoy people by tracking soot all over wherever you went?

[David]

Yeah, the pig pen, of course.

[Fran Hoffner]

On what? Yeah, on your skin.

[Griffin]

Both maintain his internal atmosphere without disrupting others.

[David]

You know what, you're right.

[Griffin]

Like, as much as Pigpen is. Is filthy or whatever, he doesn't really mess with anyone.

[David]

This is a great question.

[Griffin]

Does Pigpen get things dirty?

[David]

Does Pigpen leave residue on his surroundings?

[Griffin]

I don't know. He's a great character.

[David]

Or is he a self contained. Well, he's a rich character.

[Griffin]

He is a rich. But that's the whole thing with Peanut where you're like this six year old that Charles Schulz came up with is a rich character.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Times 40.

[David]

Yes.

[Ben]

He's wealthy.

[Griffin]

Yeah, he's. He's rich as balls.

[David]

He's kind of got that like trust fund kid thing where he's like, I don't know, I don't have money for ramen. But he's like, really? He's loaded. But he's like, oh, I can't afford a shower. Like, afford a shower.

[Griffin]

I mean, I think of the Woodsman is like agents or creatures of the Black Lodge or the other world. Right. Like they. They're malevolent, but they also don't feel like they have much of a personality. They just kind of like they're little servants. Yes. They're little agents of Bob or agents of bad things or.

[David]

Yeah, they're like minions.

[Fran Hoffner]

Okay, I agree.

[Griffin]

They are kind of like minions. I also.

[David]

Dirty little minions in the really, you.

[Griffin]

Know, in the really lynchy way. That would kind of just sound annoying when I say it, so I'm going to say it anyway. They're kind of just like electricity.

[David]

Okay, David, you can't stay there. You got to keep talking.

[Griffin]

But, you know, like, that's what lynch is often just sort of doing where he's like, you know, electricity. And you're like, what do you mean? He's like, that's all I have for you on like, what's creating a force or, you know, what's driving the plot forward or whatever, you know, and like how he always wanted to make that movie. Jesus. Ronnie Rocket.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

And it's like, well, what's it about? It's like electricity and like, that's what the woodsmen are like. Do they have like a person? You know, like, are they like, I want to kill Matthew Lillard now because he's been revealing our secrets? No, it's just kind of like. Like Lillard opened up energy from this other dimension and it's just kind of rushing at him and he can't take it anymore and it's the end of him. Yeah.

[David]

But also, so much of this show is like these forces are unleashed because of the man made and technology and like the disruption of nature, you know?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about the leftovers. Does that crazy flashback to like, like cave people. And I was thinking about how this doesn't go. Need to go that far back to explore a certain kind of modern evil that it's actually pretty recent.

[David]

Yes, yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

And otherwise completely unchangeable.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

What's important is that Matthew is gone. We salute his service.

[David]

Yeah. Great work.

[Griffin]

Right?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. I said rip.

[Griffin]

Okay, so what else we got? We got. Yeah, we got a lot of this drama with Bobby and Shelly and Becky trying to figure out, like, how do we. How do we solve Becky's problem husband? And all this stuff at the Devil Art Diner. We've got.

[David]

You have the scene with the woman in the car that we've talked about.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, it's misgiving.

[David]

And the kid vomiting. Yeah.

[Ben]

How about Hawk and Frank looking at the map together?

[Griffin]

Looking at the map together.

[Ben]

That's so fun.

[Griffin]

The weird symbols.

[Ben]

I feel like these episodes, the scenes start becoming really, like, overwhelming.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Ben]

They just play for a really long time in a way that I. Now that I'm getting used to the rhythm of the show, I'm really enjoying how long and luxurious they're Just going on forever, it feels like. Does anyone else start clicking in at this point with that?

[Griffin]

Yes. I also find Frank such a calming presence that I want to be. I want to be in his presence as much as possible. I like how no bullshit he is when, you know, Hawk is like, this represents electricity. The corn represents sustenance. And Frank's like, okay, you know, like, not like, well, come on, Hawk, or what, you know, like just the disarming acceptance of both Truman brothers is always very nice for me.

[David]

But back to. I mean, this point of like the natural versus the. The man made, or like man's trying to impose its will upon the natural order and whatever. Like Hawke, as the show goes on, having more and more of the answers, and those answers coming from a sense of passed down tradition, of a culture that was perhaps more attuned, that wasn't fighting against things, but was able to coexist with an understanding. And now you have people like Matthew Lillard, who's trying to break the barrier, breach the membrane, and then. And as a result gets his fucking head blown. Right? Has people's fucking exquisite corpsing bodies across each other and everything.

[Fran Hoffner]

Have you guys talked much about Chad? I think it's interesting that he brought in sort of a cop who's bad this time, that we.

[Griffin]

We've sort of touched on it. That there's the. Our old friends at the sheriff's department, who we love to see, and then there's this other element, this other office basically, of like regular ass shit cops, Right?

[David]

Like cynical.

[Griffin]

Someone malevolent and cynical. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And ha. To hear about the old days and, like, have any empathy for, you know, whatever happened back with Laura Palmer or whatever, anything like that. And yeah, Chad is another great. Chad Broxford. Great. I don't know the actor John Piricello.

[David]

He was on the last season of Barry as well and was, like, incredibly good.

[Griffin]

Who was he in that? I did watch that.

[David]

He's one of the cops investigating the former partner's girlfriend. It's him. And like Sarah Burns. Yeah.

[Griffin]

He's just a great kind of shifty guy.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

I don't know. What do you think, Fran?

[Fran Hoffner]

He's awesome. I like that we have the separation between the cops of yesteryear and the ones of today.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

And feels like it's like, I don't know, addressing something a little more modern about the justice system without having to be like. Like acknowledging what police do. I don't know.

[David]

Even in the 90s, like, Twin Peaks was depicting a. Like Mayberry Police Department completely. Like, it's not just that it was like an older school of policing, it's like an older school of television policing.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Like Twin Peaks is airing at a time where like, you know, there is the modern cop show that is more hard edged and here's like a drama with this sort of like throwback, more innocent, benevolent cop force.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

And now you're not getting like, you know, like the shield level, like edgy pay cable cop. You're getting just like the kind of like worst. Cynical, mundane, arrogant, ineffectual.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, I like that they're dispatcher. We get that scene of just her taking all the 911 calls and just being like, what's your location? What's your location? As if to say that like, while these guys were spiraling about Laura Palmer.

[David]

There'S just a bunch of people. There were just a bunch of other.

[Fran Hoffner]

People having to deal with everything else.

[David]

Yes. Episode 11 ends with the showdown in the desert, basically.

[Griffin]

Yes. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. Right. But the big set piece is the Mitchum brothers taking Dougie to the desert and Belush being over, realizing he is not their enemy.

[David]

Essentially with the mirroring of a dream that allows him to slow things down and investigate more thoroughly. Find the pie in the box, find the check, which was just on his person. Like, that's the best part is like they would have shot him dead and then found the check afterwards. It's only because they decide to frisk him. He was never gonna know to offer the checkup.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

And then it takes him to like out for drinks, Right? Yeah.

[Griffin]

Right. And the, and, and the woman who he, the, the slot addict, Linda Porter, who's a great old lady act.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

She's so good.

[Griffin]

I love her. She's always funny. I feel like she's in, you know, a billion shows and movies as an old lady. But. But this is why you cast Belushi, because he can do the turn from like hulking and a little intimidating to like doggy. Like, so.

[David]

Well, yeah.

[Griffin]

I mean, I don't know, Fran. Like the Chicago guy in the bag for him.

[Fran Hoffner]

Of course. I was like, that's a class classic Midwestern attitude.

[Griffin]

He's a real pierogi.

[David]

I basically never like funny Jim Belushi and always like dramatic Jim Belushi.

[Griffin]

I would agree with that.

[David]

Like, it's not even like, oh, he's been good a surprising number of times. I'm like, I think like, he's incredible in Thief. He's great in this. He's great in the Ghostwriter.

[Griffin]

Yes, he is.

[David]

And his one scene where you're like, who the hell is that? I feel like anytime he shows up in this kind of role, you're like, well, why?

[Griffin]

And you know, why doesn't this happen more often?

[David]

He talks about that he always intended to be a dramatic actor and that when he went to comedy, like, John was disappointed. And then after John's death, people were like, can you be the new Belushi? There is something that kind of makes sense of like, what didn't totally click with him comedically is maybe a reflection of him slightly being pushed into a slot.

[Griffin]

Well, is the problem with comedy Belushi exactly that. That he was essentially being put into fairly lackluster comedy projects.

[David]

Fairly is even generous out of a.

[Griffin]

Sort of like, well, we need somebody. Yeah, the big guys don't want to do this.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

But you kind of have an and like. Cause it's like, is Jim Belushi unfunny? No, he's fine.

[Fran Hoffner]

He's good humored, I think. But I don't think he ever slotted neatly into like a comedic trope of like.

[Griffin]

It's like, yes, like, okay, Jim Belushi is bad in canine. I'm just kind of like, is Jim Belushi the problem here? You know? You know, the problems had taken root long before Jim Belushi started opening his.

[David]

We were giving him our worst, and he was not elevated.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Ben]

He could never compare to his brother.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Well, there's obviously he would never be.

[Ben]

Able to live up to if he.

[Griffin]

Was called Jim Chicago.

[David]

Well, it's an interesting.

[Griffin]

And it was just like, okay, there's a big guy who. Who has a mustache sometimes and sometimes doesn't. And he plays like a guy who's kind of like a cup of coffee and he's like, hey. And I might then be just like, yeah, I love that guy. That Chicago character actor guy. I love that guy. The fact that he's called Jim Belushi. He was even called Ralph Belushi then it's another. J is really working against him to the point that you're like, did someone spell John's name wrong? Oh, no. John had already died. And this movie stars Jim Belushi. Like, it's like the experience of watching a Jim Belushi movie.

[David]

Salvador's another what? The Oliver Stone movie. He's incredibly good in.

[Griffin]

God, I haven't seen that movie in a long time. Incredible. James Woods.

[Ben]

Okay, we should wrap up on episode 11. I just want to say One thing we got to call out. That's a really good bit that I think might even become a classic bit for me. And my rotation of classic bits is when the. They keep having Dougie do a toast and he just keeps reaching for the glass. I love that. And I'm going to have to integrate it.

[Fran Hoffner]

Bit so good.

[David]

Dougie's got great bits. But yes. This ends with a musical performance of Piano man at the bar rather than Roadhouse.

[Griffin]

Yes. Which is great.

[David]

David.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

That's got to hurt. That's a quip. That's a quip that people make or like, do not go in there. That's like another quip. But if they're saying that's gotta hurt, maybe they're saying it about root canals. And if they're saying do not go in there, maybe they're saying that about a mouth with a bunch of plaque build up. My point here is if you want to avoid being the subject of quips like that, maybe you should use our sponsor today quip.

[Griffin]

Yeah. So why don't you get yourself quip360? It's an oscillating two toothbrush Griffin, that's literally going to revolve around you.

[David]

That's what I like.

[Griffin]

I've been using quip for a long time. But the 360 is the, you know, the kind of like round brush.

[David]

Sure, yeah, yeah. The whole thing with quip. It's an electric toothbrush that doesn't overcomplicate the most basic daily ritual. I feel like quip just exists to make this as easy as possible.

[Griffin]

Very simple designs, ultra quiet, super clean, you know, easy to maintain, and is scientifically, according to the American Dental association, scientifically proven to remove up to 11 times more plaque between teeth compared to a manual toothbrush and provide up to two times more whitening on day one. And if you don't like it, return it for free within 30 days.

[David]

It's fine. It's. It's easy to travel with, it is convenient, it's easy to clean. And if you do love it, you can brush easy knowing you get a free lifetime warranty for purchasing on Get Quip. That's Q U I P.com and the opportunity to subscribe to refill heads by mail every three months so you never have to go to the store. This is a part I like. That's the kind of thing I forget.

[Griffin]

You don't have to go to the store. It just happens. They just send.

[David]

It shows up and you go, oh.

[Griffin]

Right, I got a bunch of quip stuff sent to me every, you know, few months. It's really, really helpful. They've got 25,000 five star reviews and, you know, people love Quip and they.

[David]

Got a perks program. You know, I love perks programs.

[Griffin]

You do love Quip Perks.

[David]

Quip Quip puts. Quip Perks is a little hard to say. I'm going to say that's just for me. Quip puts their money where their mouth is. When you subscribe to Auto Ship, you'll be enrolled in Quip Perks to earn credit back over time.

[Griffin]

Just for listeners, a blank check, get 20% off site wide and a free travel case and counters top stand at getquip.com/check. That's get quip.com/check.

[David]

Free your mouth today and save 20% sitewide plus a free travel case and countertop stand@getquip quip.com check.

[Griffin]

Get quip Q, U, I P.com check, quip quip. We're so done with New Year.

[Fran Hoffner]

New you this year.

[Griffin]

It's more you on Bumblebee. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes. More of you finding Geminis because you know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want. And you know what?

[Fran Hoffner]

We love that for you.

[Griffin]

Someone else will too. Be more you this year and find them on Bumble. All right, part 12. Yes. Part 12 is kind of the Diane episode, right. Where there's, like, more probing into what is going on with her. So what do we have here? Begins with inducting Tammy, Agent Tammy Preston into the Blue Rose Club Task Force. Yes. Which is basically just Twin Peaks X Files. It's like. Right. It's like the FBI. If there's a case that's weird, it kind of gets secretly moved over to the Blue Rose people who have.

[Fran Hoffner]

And their former UFO people.

[Griffin]

Right, right. And they have. They ask her and she says, let's rock. Which is, of course, you know, classic catchphrase from Twin Peaks. What do you guys think? Great. Good.

[David]

Okay, now, really cooking with gas here conversationally.

[Griffin]

What do you guys think?

[David]

Yeah, sure.

[Griffin]

She's such a weird character to me.

[Fran Hoffner]

I can't figure out what this is.

[Griffin]

She's introduced with everyone being like, David.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

You're so horny. You know, introducing this character, like, on screen. They're saying that.

[David]

Right. That I'm.

[Griffin]

And then she spends the whole show being like, I'm here too. Like, with a notebook.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

Walking all sexy.

[Griffin]

Right? Yeah.

[David]

I. I have no read on her for that exact reason, where I'm just like, what. What are we doing here? If you've, like, called out from the very beginning how this looks. Yeah, but. Yeah, sure.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's beyond me. She's not making anything worse. No, no, but neutral, neutral. Here's my thought about Diane.

[Griffin]

Go ahead.

[Fran Hoffner]

She's got the Taylor Swift nails.

[Griffin]

Please elaborate on that.

[Fran Hoffner]

All different colors.

[Griffin]

Is that a Taylor Swift?

[Fran Hoffner]

She started doing it, I think, around the Lover era, and it's consistently sort of what her nails look like. She keeps her. Keeps her nails very short. She has to play guitar, and they're usually all different colors. So I do wonder, you know, this is pre Lover.

[Griffin]

I was going to say, what Taylor era are we in around 2016, 2017?

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, we're post reputation. Pre Lover, which is when she starts to do those nails.

[Griffin]

So you're saying that Taylor Swift was ripping off Diane from Twin Peaks when she did that?

[David]

Interesting take. It's an interesting take.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. My two cents. I just always think that I'm like, she's got the Swift nails.

[Griffin]

So we also, early on. And we'll talk more about Diane. Pretty much. We've seen Sarah Palmer, like, watching tv, but this is like our first interaction with Sarah Palmer, right? Like. Like talking to people. She's yelling about jerky at the supermarket and basically just kind of being like, remember how I had a really spooky, awful vibe in the original Twin Peaks? Like, that was fucking Barney the Dinosaur. Compared to, like, what I'm liking, she's not doing great. Right. I have just, like, festered in the. In the worst direction.

[David]

There's no, like, horse to distract her anymore.

[Griffin]

And I think the best way to think about her is like, yeah, whatever poison has been in her since she was a kid, because she's the kid in episode eight is sort of. Is what's widely assumed, who the creature crawls into the mouth of has just become, like, unspeakable.

[David]

Yeah, right.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's her and the woman honking the car where I'm just like, get me out of here. Like, I wish I wasn't watching this. And the sort of reintroduction of her watching the lions kill that animal is maybe the worst thing I've seen in this where I was like, the thing.

[Griffin]

About it is the return is it can be so funny, it can be so delightful. And then it can have sequences like that, or like Richard Horne running over a kid. And then the show not just cutting away from it, but being like, we're sticking with this where you're Like, I don't know if I ever want to watch more of this.

[Fran Hoffner]

Phil was saying. He's like, my. My memory of watching that at the time was that it was mostly all really nice. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? But he was like, he had remembered all the, like. He's like, oh, Harry Dean Stanton stuff is so great.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

And seeing Dern in there is so great. And Dougie is so great. And then it's like, well, yeah. But then every other scene is like, the worst thing I've ever.

[David]

Tremendous amount of suffering.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. Had to sit through and consider in a real way.

[Griffin]

Right. We have. Right. The next thing is right. Frank sitting down with. With Richard. I. Sorry. With Ben and being like. So FYI, Richard is the most evil person. Grandson is a homicidal maniac. Like, and Ben being like, ah, yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Ben is so evil in the first season. And now when he's even modestly inconvenienced, I'm like, leave him alone.

[Griffin]

He suffered enough that I. But I really think Ben's plotline in the Return, which is not, you know, not a lot is happening with him, he doesn't really get punished for the terrible, terrible things he does in Twin Peaks, you know, Was he ever kind of brought to justice for, like, running drug smuggling and prostitution rings and, like, accusing young women? Probably. And it's like, no. He's just still there.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

He's really bummed out, clearly.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

There's this kind of ambient, like, depression or evil around him to the point that he can almost hear it and is, like, asking Ashley Judd if she hears it too.

[David]

I think that's a kind of hollowness that tends to set in with guys like this, though, where, like, people who.

[Griffin]

Like, you're just still alive, right.

[David]

In, like, middle age, they get some electricity with what they're. But from the crimes they're able to commit and the power they're able to accrue. And then it's like, decades later, it's like, okay, so I got away with it, right? What do I fucking do now? Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

But there's nothing to be gained from getting away with it. You just rot an H. Yes.

[Griffin]

And I just love it. I just love that that's sort of what the show does with him. And of course, that. Yes. I mean, Richard is like, the ultimate, you know, punishment for him in a way of, like, you've only begotten, like, pure evil.

[David]

There's something for me that still does not compute about how many. How much of the original west side Story cast is still alive.

[Griffin]

Sure.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

Right, right. And part of it's probably the Natalie Wood died very young, but, like, knowing the cast members who died in between the original series and this and the people who died in between this and now, and the fact that, like, Richard Bamer's still alive, I. I don't know if it's that. I always think that west side Story is older than it is. Although it's certainly not new.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's pretty old.

[David]

And part of it was that the actors were also young in it.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

But. But it is like a lot of them have lived very long, robust lives. Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

They're bolstered by being in a really good movie.

[David]

That's. It gave them lifeblood. It's George Karras.

[Griffin]

George Shakaris is still with us at the age of 90.

[David]

Right. Rita Moreno is 94.

[Griffin]

She's 92. Cushion it.

[David]

Obviously, Bamer's, like, 90.

[Griffin]

Russ Tamblyn is 89, and Bamer is 86. A baby.

[David]

That's crazy.

[Griffin]

It is crazy.

[David]

How old was he in the movie?

[Griffin]

Gonna have to do some math here. He would have been about 21, 22.

[Fran Hoffner]

Math crave.

[Griffin]

But yes. I just think Ben's plotline is one of the cleverest uses of, like, the legacy impact of this show, is all I'm saying.

[Fran Hoffner]

Should we talk about Audrey?

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Yeah. So it's part 12 of 18.

[David]

Correct. That Audrey comes in.

[Griffin]

Audrey is suddenly introduced. Sherilyn Fenn. Big actress.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

On the original show.

[David]

Humongous character.

[Griffin]

Big character.

[David]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Griffin]

Tied up in a lot of stuff. She is married to one of the seven dwarfs or whatever. Like, she's, like, stuck with this small, bald kind of accountant guy.

[Fran Hoffner]

And he's sleepy.

[Griffin]

And he's sleepy. Played by. Go ahead.

[David]

No, I was gonna say they seem to have, like, a terrible marriage of convenience where there has been no passion between them in, like, decades. And he's like, why are you mad at me? And she's, like, openly kind of taunting him with, who is Billy? Do we know who Billy is? She keeps saying, I'm in love with Billy. I'm fucking Billy.

[Griffin]

So. So this is the whole thing with the Audrey plot.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

It's fucking insane. We don't know what she's talking about. Like, she refers to Billy. Billy. Not to spoil. We never meet Billy.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

Like what? We don't really know what that is.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

We don't really understand who Charlie is.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Like, we know that he's her accountant and that they got married for some reason, but I don't want to get too much into Audrey's total arc on this show, but I do feel like this is one of the more representational. Like, you have to, like, this isn't quite reality.

[David]

Yeah. I'm a little confused by it.

[Griffin]

At the very least, we're all confused. She also references calling Tina. That's another character we, like, never see or understand who it is.

[David]

Okay. You know, Tina's the woman they're. Yeah.

[Griffin]

You feel like you are. It's disassociating watching this scene, like, being like, I don't. Have we seen Audrey before and I forgot about it. Have we seen this character Charlie before and I forgot about it. What is this connected to?

[David]

Also, her performance style is wildly different. Like, this just feels like an almost unrecognizable character. Other than the fact that she still looks like Sherilyn Fenn.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

You know, it's not just, like, circumstantial or, like, behavioral. It's like, I don't understand how this is the same person outside of, like, I'm doing the math in my head of are we supposed to fill in the gaps of there has been some sort of, like, horn family, like, power causing inner sol rot thing. Yes.

[Griffin]

I don't want to tell you.

[David]

Okay, well, then I don't really want.

[Griffin]

To get into it, but, like, I want to know what you guys thought of the scene.

[David]

I, I, I, I really didn't know what to make of it.

[Fran Hoffner]

Same. I really liked when he said he was so sleepy because I was like, this was me earlier this year.

[Griffin]

My brother and I would send pictures of Charlie to each other all the time. Time.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Because there's just something like, Imagine one day you woke up and you were just married to this sort of small man who's bald and glasses and sits behind a desk and you're just like, ranting like an insane person to him, and he's just like, you know, like, it, it feels like some kind of like little Kafka story or whatever.

[David]

Yes. I think he's giving, like, the guy's.

[Griffin]

Name is Clark Middleton. He, he is sadly dead. He died. Oh, really? He died, I think of the West Nile virus.

[David]

It's something very strange during 2020 of the West Nile virus. Yes.

[Griffin]

That is why a lot of COVID Like, I think he had some kind of arthritic thing like that. Had, you know, he's slightly shorter. He's like five'five or something.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

But I don't think that is why that contributed to the West Nile thing. Like, he Just. I don't know. I don't really know much about the West Nile virus.

[David]

He's in Kill Bill. I'm trying to. He is, yeah. Yes.

[Griffin]

I don't know who he's.

[David]

It. He is. I want to say he's Michael Madsen's, like, right hand man when they're burying her. Yeah.

[Griffin]

No. Yes, you're right. Yeah. No real memory of that scene.

[David]

Yeah. I mean, that's the.

[Griffin]

It's kind of the worst plot line in Kill Bill.

[David]

No. I was going to say that's my favorite moment. Her escaping.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

I think is the most triumphant part of Kill Bill.

[Griffin]

I've seen Kill Bill, volume one.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

20 times.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

And I think I've seen volume two, like twice.

[David]

They were both so seismic for me.

[Griffin]

Right. I. For some reason I haven't. Whatever. Wanted to. I think two is more visceral in a way. Or more. It's more emotional.

[David]

It's way more emotional.

[Griffin]

And that's why I wanted to visit it last night.

[David]

And there's this, like, masterwork of narrative construction around the Bud segment that kind of feels like, I don't know, a downswing and then I think has this like, incredible cathartic payoff.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I mean, it's amazing. And I. I like the movie a lot.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I've never seen the whole bloody Affair.

[David]

I haven't either.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

It's not. It's not. I feel like it's rarely viewable, but it is.

[Griffin]

It exists.

[David]

It does. It has been screened. Yeah.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Then were you about to say something?

[Ben]

The Audrey scene.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Thoughts on the Audrey scene?

[Ben]

It's like bad theater.

[David]

It. That's the thing. It's one of the only scenes in the show so far where I'm like, is this just not working? Not like there is a deliberate sense of, like, unusualness that is being cultivated, that is out of touch with reality. But I'm like, is this scene actually failing at what it's trying to do or do I just not understand what it's trying to do?

[Ben]

But it doesn't feel like necessarily out of left field for the character of Audrey to act like this.

[David]

This.

[Ben]

It's just because it reminded me of petulant over the topness of season one.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Ben]

Like referencing all of these men and you have to come to the bar with me and be my company. And I don't know, it just. It feels still like it makes sense to me. It doesn't feel completely random.

[David]

There's. Yeah, there's a certain curling, but it is bizarre. When I don't. The show has held her back for this long, you know, and it's like, oh, this is the first time we're gonna see this character in, like, decades.

[Griffin]

Exactly. One of the last legacy characters to show up.

[David]

Right. And then the couple episodes leading up to this are connecting. Like, okay, that's her son. That's right. The whole family's coming in and you're like, man, they've been holding back on Audrey. This is gonna be meaningful. And then you have this 10 minute scene that feels interminable where I can't quite get what's going on.

[Griffin]

And you're, like, caught in this loop where you're just like, can someone explain to me what's going on? And instead she's just having this circular conversation with this, like, stone wall of a person who then takes a phone.

[Ben]

Call and we don't hear and he's like, what?

[Fran Hoffner]

That conversation.

[David]

Right. And then it's like, I'm not going to tell you what I heard. Which, let's say, like, right before this, if not immediately before this, but in the, you know, the chunks before this, in this very episode, you have Cooper and Berenice Merlot, someone who I was so convinced was going to be a major star and I feel like has weirdly kind of disappeared.

[Griffin]

She's gorgeous.

[David]

She's also just incredible. But this, like, kind of extended, weird David lynch comedy routine of, like, behavior being drawn out in a sort of inexplicable way, which then goes into Alfred. And I said Jane Adams.

[Griffin]

Yeah, you said Cole.

[David]

They're sort of like, like check in on each other and what's going on with Denise? They've been tracking her phone. They saw the Vegas text and whatever. But that conversation is going on with these, like, protracted silences.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Where it's very hard to read the energy of what's going on, but it all feels within Lynch's power.

[Griffin]

You meant Diane, not Denise.

[David]

I'm sorry.

[Griffin]

It's fine, it's fine. Denise is David Duchovny's character.

[David]

There are too many names.

[Griffin]

Yeah, there's a lot of names. It's a lot of characters.

[David]

Yeah. The show has a lot of characters. I want to say that the Audrey.

[Fran Hoffner]

Stuff almost felt like a scene from Invitation to Love when you would get those little snippets.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Earlier on. And it has that kind of almost classic soap opera scene. But then the longer it goes on.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

The more increasingly upsetting and unnerving it gets. And it makes me grateful that I was going to Power through all of this over the summer when I was sick. And then people told me specifically not to watch the Return.

[David]

It might make your brain go crazy.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah, my brain was going crazy.

[Griffin]

Something you want to indulge, like, you don't want to give to a feverish brain.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. Because I'd go insane.

[Griffin]

I think so. Yeah.

[David]

But this scene goes on for, like, over 10 minutes.

[Griffin]

Yes. And has no resolution.

[David]

Inscrutable. Right? Has no resolution. And then I feel like the next time we see her is in the following episode where it's basically. It feels like another installment of this correct conversation.

[Griffin]

Another installment of the strange. Her being like, I have to go do this thing involving a bunch of names that, you know, I. We don't know who I'm talking about. Tina. Billy. And she just starts to break down. And he's like, do you want to end that story? And she's like, what story? The little girl who lived down the lane. And then again, it's just like, okay, and cut to the Roadhouse and we'll have a musical performance, Chromatics, but also.

[David]

Two characters we haven't seen before having an argument about whether a guy they know is cheating on a woman they know.

[Griffin]

So weird. Anyway, there will be more on. This is the only thing I will say. But it's not going to be, like, incredibly straightforward.

[David]

Well, weird, because I was expecting that at this point. No, I just. I really. I'm. I'm feeling a little on edge about this. And if it's. I reserve judgment until I see the end.

[Griffin]

Yes. Okay. Episode 13, I will say I would call the arm wrestling episode.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Right. Is that. That's the best way to describe this one. This is heavy on Mr. C. It's basically him going to, like, a Goon lair.

[Fran Hoffner]

The music is really crazy at the start of this episode, I gotta say.

[Griffin]

Yes. The episode, I think, begins with the Mitchum brothers taking Cooper Dougie back to the office. And, like, with lots of gifts. Right. And just being happy. Right.

[David]

And they're, like, doing, like, a conga line in the office.

[Griffin]

It's so fun.

[David]

And then Sizemore realizes, like, I'm fucked. And Fishler puts the screws in and is like, you have to resolve this today.

[Griffin]

You have one day to kill Dougie. But then, yeah, it's the Goon Village, the Goon Warehouse or whatever. And it's just Mr. C winning them over, essentially, with punches and.

[David]

Interesting way to describe it. Arm wrestling the big guy, Derek Mears, who, of course, was remake Jason Voorhees.

[Griffin]

Yes. In the 2009. Right.

[David]

Yes. And your tits are so fucking juicy. Movie.

[Griffin]

I want to look. You set it up. So I have to now find what? I now have to find the exact line.

[David]

It's David's favorite quote that he sometimes misquotes.

[Griffin]

That's the reason I wanted to. So in the remake of Friday the 13th that came out in 2009, largely, I think, just because there was a Friday the 13th, they found to be a good release date.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Right. Because it came out on a Friday the 13th.

[David]

Correct.

[Griffin]

Do you track what I'm talking about so far? In 2009, they remade it. And there's a sex guy and this.

[David]

Guy, the arm wrestling guy, played Jason Vorcey, the biggest Jason.

[Griffin]

February 20th. Friday 13th February 2009.

[David]

I was gonna say if it came out February 20th, that's a huge whiff.

[Griffin]

They don't realize it until like, wait.

[David]

They're like, wait, it was last Friday.

[Griffin]

I want to say it's. I forget the actors. I'm sorry. To the actors.

[David]

Juliana Gill.

[Griffin]

Juliana Gill. Okay. I don't remember the guy.

[David]

I don't either. Who does.

[Griffin]

It's not Ben Feldman. He's in it.

[Fran Hoffner]

I saw Ben Feldman a restaurant once.

[Griffin]

How's he doing?

[Fran Hoffner]

Doing handsome.

[Ben]

What was he eating?

[Fran Hoffner]

Chinese food.

[Griffin]

Because that movie has Padalecki, Ri. Panabaker. It's got all these CW stars in it. Ryan Hansen's in it. Like, it's just like. It just, like, scooped through, like the WB and CW and Fox. It was like, who can we pick up who's around?

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

I have to say something about Ryan Hansen, but I'll save it.

[Griffin]

That's fine. There's a. An obscene sex scene. Obscene in a perfectly fun, dumb slasher movie way. Where he's. He's filming her with a digital camera.

[David]

While she rides him.

[Griffin]

Yes. While she is on top of him. And he says, your tits are fucking. Just so juicy, dude. That's how he says it. It's. It's amazing. It's one of the great line readings in horror cinema.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And she says, you really know how to give a girl a compliment. It's a very funny. It's an objectively funny scene.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

Like, it's not a scene where you're like, what? They stumbled into this nonsense. You're like, no, this is funny. Like, this is good. Anyway, Derek Mears is the villain. And that. Wasn't he in a. A Swamp Thing, maybe?

[David]

Yes, he was Swamp Thing. I mean, he. Does he. Because he is such a physically striking Presence. And he's a very skilled actor. And he has, like, improv training. Hell, yeah. It's very funny. I feel like was on Community, maybe plays kick puncher.

[Griffin]

Oh, yeah, that's right. He does.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

And I love that joke in the Community.

[David]

Yes. But ends up doing a lot of creature stuff.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Prosthetic stuff. But he's a guy you just introduce on screen and you're like, yeah, you wouldn't want to arm wrestle this guy. Here are the stakes.

[Griffin]

So, yes, he's there. And Mr. C kind of toys with them before destroying him.

[David]

Neutral position.

[Griffin]

Yes. Powerhouse McLachlan stuff.

[David]

It's unbelievable.

[Griffin]

It's all in his face.

[David]

Yes.

[Griffin]

That you just. You do believe, like, this is the strongest being in the world or whatever. It's all his face.

[David]

There's also. I'm watching this. I know he's like, this supernatural evil, and he's capable of doing, like, inhuman things, right?

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

So it's like Derek Mears is beating him. And I've seen so many versions of this scene where I'm like, oh, what's gonna happen next? Is that he flips him over and his arm breaks. Right, Right. Like, there's some other movie I'm thinking of where a guy gets powered up and he starts breaking people's arms. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Griffin]

No, no, no.

[David]

And everyone's like, you need to chill the fuck out.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

I don't know. It'll come to me at some later point, but I'm, like, ready for it to just be, like, a clean snap.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Like he was humoring him.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

And instead he resets him back to square one and just goes neutral position. And you're like, that's scarier that he's basically the whole time that he can place him on whatever degree he wants and then, like, lets him once again get him close and then goes back to neutral position and then starts scolding him.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

How much it hurts.

[Griffin]

Right, Exactly. And essentially, it's just like, this is a children's game.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

Then punches his face in.

[Griffin]

Yes. Nasty.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yucky.

[Griffin]

But funny.

[Ben]

Silly, because all of these guys are scary as hell looking.

[Griffin]

Well, it's funny that they gather together. Right, Exactly. In this, like, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Laird. Where they're just, I guess, waiting for a phone call to be like, hey, someone needs a large man. Go to this place. Yeah, right.

[David]

Is it the fly? Does the fly have a scene where he fucking arm wrestles a guy and clean snaps his arm off?

[Griffin]

Yes. The fly has an Arm wrestling scene. Absolutely. Yes. That is what you're thinking.

[David]

I was just like, there's some sci fi movie that has this sort of setup where someone's body is transforming and they go in to try to get revenge on jocks.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Right. This is where the sort of the Mr. C gets all the information of, like, someone gave me this ring, told me to put it on and to kill you. Richard Horn shows up at this point. He's sort of, you know, revealed to be kind of like he has, like, membership. And then Mr. C kills Ray, who's made it this far somehow, but is finally dead.

[David]

But gets his, like, interrogation. He wants. Puts the ring on him, sends his dead body to the lodge.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And I feel like that's the big thing that happens in this episode.

[Ben]

He references Philip Jeffries.

[Griffin]

He does the David Bowie character, of course, who we don't see in this show. You'll sort of see a version of him at a certain point, but is sort of driving the campaign against Mr. C from beyond.

[Fran Hoffner]

Bowie shows up in Fire Walk With Me. Is there anything else that he pops up in?

[David]

No pieces.

[Griffin]

Well, that's true.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

That's.

[Fran Hoffner]

That's what I hadn't seen.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

I wondered if I maybe messed up not watching that.

[David]

There's a little more of him. Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Okay.

[David]

But I mean, he notoriously did not. Was supposed to be a bigger part in the movie and then tour schedule happened and he only shot a little bit and he was never even less of it.

[Griffin]

Yes. He wasn't very satisfied with his performance. Didn't like the accent. He did.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And I think was considering coming back for this, but then he was sick and he died and whatever. There's sort of workarounds for that.

[David]

Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Okay.

[David]

But I think his passing happened pretty late in their planning.

[Griffin]

Yes, I think so anyway. They sort of figure it out. But he's basically implied to just sort of be from beyond. A force working against Mr. C, who's maybe for a long time been trying to figure out how to defeat behind Bob. We. The other big thing, you know, Bobby going to see Ed and Norma at the diner. Got some Ed stuff.

[David]

I mean, it's another Dana Ashbrook moment. That kind of kills me of his reaction to. Or is it. No, no, no. It's in the scene with Amanda Seyfried.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Where Shelley's new boyfriend shows up where.

[Griffin]

They'Re talking to her.

[David]

Yeah, right. And he just like, beautifully plays like, in real human emotions within a heightened show. The sort of sense of. Oh, he Fucked this up somewhere along the way. He's not jealous of this guy or angry at her, he's angry at himself. And he's like, sort of just wistful and broken about all of this, right?

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah. But it's just so nice when Ed and Norma invite him to eat with them too. Cause that's the thing of, like, being in a town with these people for your whole lives is like, eventually you run out of people to eat with.

[David]

But then Ed has the sort of mirror of that moment when Norma's new franchising boyfriend shows up. Yes.

[Griffin]

And he.

[Fran Hoffner]

Ooh, I was so mad to see him.

[Griffin]

Right. I don't call it Norma's double R. Yeah.

[David]

And let's lower the ingredients.

[Griffin]

Walter Lawford is this character, like this show.

[David]

Or let me say this character, I feel like, is the embodiment of Lynch's notion of the truest evil.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

Like, this feels like a fucking executive note guy. I'm just like, we look, we love your thing. Of course, it's great if the pies are fantastic and delicious. What if they kind of suck though, right? And she's like, no, the pies have to be good. He's like, of course. And I totally get that. But what if they're a little bit shitty? I just feel like, especially knowing that the show almost doesn't happen because Glen is fighting back and forth with Showtime people on, like, I'm going to do this the way I want to do it or I'm not going to do it.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

It is the thing I think he thinks is quietly the most insidious thing in the world. Yeah. The people who, as Albert Brooks would say, just lower standards little by little. Yeah.

[Griffin]

The musical performance in this episode is James Hurley. A lovely, lovely moment, let's say.

[David]

Bit of a one hit wonder. He's still just playing this one song.

[Griffin]

Just you. Yeah, that's his song. Nice to see him, though, because he doesn't do much in the return. No.

[David]

And he's introduced early. I was ready for him to be a bigger part, especially since, you know, I feel like we talked about in our season one episode, but his career kind of got, like diverted.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

And I thought he was such an interesting actor in the 90s.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

No, I. Yeah. And then we have the. Right. The little coda with Ed.

[David]

Yes. Eating his soup. His soup.

[Fran Hoffner]

Good soup.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Also Nadine Jacoby.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, right.

[David]

They finally talk.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

She's still got her. Her drape shop.

[David]

Silent drapes.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Run silent, Run drapes. And she just Loves him.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

And says, I remember seeing you in a supermarket during a storm or something like that.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

She dropped a potato.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

But this is like, this entire plot line is the kind of thing that you're like, this could be, like, covered in three scenes in one episode and be like. And that's our, like, check in with the two of them.

[Griffin]

Right.

[David]

And instead it's, like, been spread out across 13 episodes in the most, like, drawn out way. It is so fascinating which things he chooses to serialize and which things he chooses to encapsulate in, like, one moment and never revisit. Right. Because it's like we have like, four different scenes of her watching him silently.

[Griffin]

We do.

[David]

And looking, like, trans.

[Griffin]

He's like, the are at it again for, like, a while.

[David]

That comes after like. Like five episodes worth of scenes of him just painting shovels.

[Griffin]

But then again, the fucks are at it. Again, the fucks are at it. He's not wrong.

[Fran Hoffner]

He's not. I wrote he's spitting.

[David]

We could use someone like him.

[Fran Hoffner]

The liberal Joe Rogan.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

But we are still in WTF mode, I would say, at this point. Right. Like, very little.

[David]

We're locking the gates.

[Griffin]

Yes. But very little has been answered satisfactorily in any way for new viewers. Right. And we're two thirds of the way into the show at this point, so that's an interesting way to do it.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

Fran, do you have any other things that you wrote down that we haven't touched on?

[Fran Hoffner]

I love Johnny Jewel.

[Griffin]

Okay.

[Fran Hoffner]

Who does the music for this series.

[Griffin]

Yep.

[Fran Hoffner]

Italians do it better. Sort of. His, like, collective just wanted to shout out, yep, Johnny Jewel.

[Ben]

I thought these were some of the funniest. If not, I think this is the maybe the funniest block of episodes.

[Fran Hoffner]

The Mitchum brothers are so great. It's all that stuff is awesome.

[Ben]

The Mitchum brothers paired with the three. The dumb cops, the arm wrestlers, the three, like, assistants. Their three blonde assistants.

[Griffin]

Yes.

[Ben]

That. It's just the show.

[Griffin]

Women, the Dougie sex scene and the. All the Dougie stuff. The doctor, the conga line. All that stuff is fun.

[Fran Hoffner]

I think once I grew to accept, like, the cadence of the Dougie stuff and the sort of, you know, tacit acceptance of like, oh, this is what it is. It's not like, yeah, preamble or prologue to something else.

[David]

This is the destination.

[Fran Hoffner]

But also watching the universe start to curve around and towards him.

[Griffin]

Break reality and remake it.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

You know what we didn't talk about? Sunny Jim's gym set looks so fucking fun.

[Griffin]

With a mini presents.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

But also know. Did you guys call that a. I know that as a playset gym set.

[Ben]

Jungle gym.

[Fran Hoffner]

Jungle gym, sure.

[David]

Yeah. This is sort of a gym shoes.

[Fran Hoffner]

Running shoes type of thing.

[Ben]

It's.

[David]

Yeah, it's like a backyard playground.

[Ben]

Does it come with a spotlight?

[David]

Well, no. It's got like light piping, right?

[Ben]

No, but I'm saying there's a. There's a moving spotlight.

[Griffin]

Oh, sure.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, yeah.

[Griffin]

Do you think that came. That does that pre installed?

[Ben]

I think it does. It must.

[David]

But also it has like the classical music coming from within it. Right. There's not like an external speaker system.

[Fran Hoffner]

The speakers are seemingly coming from inside the slide.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

Seems awesome. I just said that looks so fun.

[David]

Yeah, I like that. Also, like, Nami Watts has been so skeptical of everything going on around Dougie. And she has the moment of like, what's going on here? And then is just like, I'm not gonna fucking turn this down. That jungle gym set. Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

Sort of a Return of Martin Gare kind of thing happening with these guys.

[David]

Yes.

[Fran Hoffner]

You guys know that one?

[Griffin]

Of course.

[David]

Let's also just. I know I forefronted it, but Dougie going full dolomite.

[Griffin]

Yes. Crazy sex. Yes.

[David]

Right.

[Griffin]

Bedrocking.

[David]

Right. She reaches completion while he seemingly. While he just lies there motionless with a goofy grin on his face.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Maybe he's packing.

[David]

Well, yeah, but he would have been packing before.

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, this is exactly what happened in Return of Martin Gare.

[David]

Okay.

[Fran Hoffner]

The new guy can really go for it.

[Griffin]

It's kind of a. Dave, then.

[Fran Hoffner]

Do you know about this?

[David]

It's kind.

[Griffin]

I do not.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's this like Middle Ages court case, an early example of a court case that eventually became like a book in a movie about.

[Griffin]

And it's just like a storyline. Like Downton Abbey did a Martin Gare story. Like, it's a storyline you could always do do of a.

[Fran Hoffner]

Of a married couple. And the husband goes off, I think, to war, go do something. And then a different guy comes back.

[Griffin]

And it's like, I'm your husband bandaged up or something.

[David]

Oh, sure.

[Griffin]

It's like the war has changed me, but I am Martin.

[David]

He's like a changeling husband.

[Fran Hoffner]

And back in the Middle Ages, the wife or whatever was just like, okay, sounds good. And they, I think, didn't have kids. And then suddenly they did have kids. And then this new husband basically got into like a property dispute with someone else. And there was this big case about that. And then midway through that case, the original guy came back and was like, wait a minute, that's my wife. And her whole thing is that her testimony was like, I didn't know.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

I didn't know it was a different guy. I thought it was the same guy.

[Griffin]

Right.

[Fran Hoffner]

And people have long sort of tried to be like, was she lying?

[Griffin]

They didn't have pictures back.

[Fran Hoffner]

Well, that's what. They didn't have pictures. They didn't have mirrors. She hadn't seen him in eight years. Would you know it's the guy.

[David]

But that's also the imposter. That's a great thing where it's like, yeah. When you're dealing with the trauma of thinking you've lost someone, will your brain do more to justify things in order to not have to live with the tragedy?

[Ben]

Well, there's that famous instance of the French couple.

[David]

Well, no, no, that's the French kid who scammed the American.

[Ben]

Oh, they're. I'm sorry.

[David]

Yes, the imposter.

[Ben]

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. The imposter. That's another example of where they were just so missing their, their child that when this stranger shows up, clearly it's not their kid.

[Griffin]

We wanted to be the kids they wanted.

[David]

It's a lot of like, everyone refuses. People are like, dougie, you sure are acting strange. No one is like, Dougie, you seem like a dog. You feel like a malfunctioning robot. You know, like people take 10 seconds of being a little bit disarmed by his behavior before they go like, wait a second. Are you the smartest best of all time? Yeah, human brain's crazy. Look, on this show we usually do a segment called the Box Office Gang, which is brought to you by our friends at Regal. Regal Unlimited is the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits. And hey, you can sign up now in the Regal app or at the link in the description. Use code blank check to get 10% off your three month subscription. Fran, you're a famous Regal clown.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'm a Regal clown. Card carrying member.

[David]

I'll be.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'll be there Friday to see what?

[David]

What?

[Fran Hoffner]

See Wicked at 10am hey.

[David]

Did you just want to beat the rush?

[Fran Hoffner]

No, it just seemed like a good time of. It's probably my favorite time of day.

[David]

Wicked. Yeah. You could get some green coffee.

[Fran Hoffner]

Yeah.

[David]

To supercharge.

[Fran Hoffner]

I think I'm most generous artistically earlier in the day.

[David]

Interesting.

[Griffin]

Do you want me to find specific TV ratings?

[David]

Yeah, well, I'm going to say, unfortunately, today we're playing the ratings game. Because we're covering TV shows. Unless we want to play the box office. His game for this.

[Griffin]

I was thinking of that, but I don't know.

[David]

It's five weekends.

[Griffin]

Well, we're not going to do five.

[David]

That's what I'm saying. So let's. Let's pick a. Let's pick a ratings thing.

[Griffin]

I'm trying to find. It's so annoying how like fussy this thing. Like searching for ratings are great. July 9, 2017.

[Fran Hoffner]

Okay, how does this work? Are you guessing what the.

[David]

It's a great question. And much like Twin Peaks, the return you might not get satisfying.

[Griffin]

It's such a bad time to do this because. Because it's the summer, so there aren't even like, you know, hit network shows to bring up.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

It's like truly the random shit that plays.

[David]

But last time we did cable.

[Griffin]

I know rating.

[David]

So I'm like, let's. Let's do summer. Even though it's meaningless.

[Griffin]

I'm trying.

[David]

Let's do.

[Fran Hoffner]

This is actually feeling like the Audrey Charlie scene of summer.

[David]

Network ratings. I'm saying let's lean into the weirdness.

[Griffin]

Well, I have network ratings. Okay, so here's number one. That night. Night was a rerun of a News show on CBS.

[David]

Perfect.

[Griffin]

I'm serious.

[David]

60 Minutes.

[Griffin]

60 Minutes got a 7.4.

[David]

Huge.

[Griffin]

Then number two. Okay, I thought this was fun. A game show, but a celebrity version.

[David]

It was a celebrity version of a game show. Huh. Was it a new game show?

[Griffin]

No, this is a long running game show.

[David]

Long running?

[Griffin]

Yeah, it's had a few hosts over the years. Its current host is probably the most.

[David]

Iconic Its current host is probably the most iconic summer celebrity edition. It is Celebrity Family Feud.

[Griffin]

That's right. Okay, I can't tell you who was on it, but I can tell you it was a celebrity Family Feud.

[David]

Give me the date and let me see if I can do a secondary search.

[Griffin]

July 9, 2017.

[Fran Hoffner]

You guys would be good on there with Murray.

[David]

Oh, we'd kill it.

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Family Feud is pretty fun.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

I would be bad at the. Where you have to be on your own. I like being in the group. 30 seconds on the clock.

[David]

Like that performance anxiety would get to you.

[Griffin]

What's just scary. Sure. Number three was the big reality show of the summer. I feel like it. I never am aware of what's going on, but it's always there.

[David]

Is it a bachelor?

[Griffin]

No, that's a prime. That's a, you know, in season. This one's always on in the summertime.

[David]

Big Brother.

[Griffin]

Big Brother.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

It's like that just happens every year. I've never heard anyone talk about it.

[David]

It.

[Griffin]

You know, Survivor. I have friends who watch Survivor. Bachelor.

[David]

Sure.

[Griffin]

You know, like I never hear about Big Brother, but it just. Every year we lock 20 people in a house and film them. I guess.

[David]

You said it was July 9, 2017?

[Griffin]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah. So the Family Feud episode was MLB Legends versus NBA Legends and NFL stars versus NFL Legends.

[Griffin]

Great.

[David]

That sounds a little complicated.

[Griffin]

It does.

[David]

I recognize zero of the names.

[Griffin]

Give me some of the MLB legends.

[David]

I. I can't differentiate who's who. I'm just going to list people for you right now. Lavon Bell, Tyrone Bogues. Darryl Derek Brooks. Marshall Falk. Prince fielder. Horace Grant. DeAndre Hopkins. Robert Hori.

[Griffin]

This is all over the place.

[David]

Pedro Martinez.

[Griffin]

Oh, Pedro was there. Amazing.

[David]

Gary Payton. Patrick Peterson. Harold Reynolds. Ozzy Smith. I know Ozzy Smith.

[Griffin]

There you go.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

The Wizard.

[David]

James Worthy. Yeah.

[Griffin]

Cool. Probably pretty good. Number four. Let me just do the math here. Was. Okay. Another. Well, what the fuck?

[David]

Is this exciting?

[Griffin]

Another thing hosted by Steve Harvey.

[David]

Oh, great. Not Miss Universe.

[Griffin]

No. This show appears to have lasted for one year. The summer of 2017.

[David]

It only aired in the summer of 2017. Not a game show format.

[Griffin]

Variety format was not exactly it. It was a competition show. Is it Kids say the darndest things? No. Cuz that ran forever.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

This was kind of a ripoff of another show hosted by Steve Harvey.

[David]

They took one Steve Harvey show and.

[Griffin]

No, no, no, no. Steve Harvey is hosting this show.

[Ben]

Are there kids involved though?

[David]

Can you give us a hint about the show? It ripped off.

[Griffin]

You love it.

[David]

I love it, yes. Is it a Shark Tank rip off?

[Griffin]

Correct.

[David]

Is it called.

[Griffin]

You'll never guess. If you don't know the name, you'll never guess. The name does not suggest Shark Tank ripoff.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

It's called Steve Harvey's Thunderdome.

[David]

Fuck that.

[Ben]

Thunderdome.

[Griffin]

That's right. That's right. Number Was that number? I don't even know what number we're on.

[David]

Great.

[Griffin]

That was number three. Was that.

[David]

I thought that was three.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Number four is another game show that aired on ABC and this game show number night. Legendary game show. It's been on forever.

[David]

Legendary game show. Been on forever and. Or at least is it usually a primetime show?

[Griffin]

I don't know.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's like Wheel of Fortune.

[Griffin]

Yeah. It's not that famous, but you know, it's been many franchise versions of this.

[David]

It's not let's Make a Deal. It's not Millionaire No. Many franchise versions of this. You have no idea where it plays. You seem really passionate about it.

[Fran Hoffner]

Dancing with the Stars.

[Griffin]

Oh, no, you guys are shooting too high. It's just one of those games.

[David]

Pyramids.

[Griffin]

How many dollars million dollar pyramid? It's 100,000.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

It started out as the $10,000 pyramid. Now it's 100.

[David]

Michael Strahan.

[Griffin]

Now it is. Yeah. I'm not sure who hosted it back in 2017.

[David]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

But currently I believe it's hosted by Michael Strand. And yeah, looks like. Yeah, it would have been him then too. Okay. And number five is. Oh, man. Okay. Yeah, sure. A rerun of your enthusiasm. Well, it's a little boring. ABC really owns this night with, you know, this kind of programming.

[David]

Okay.

[Griffin]

It's a rerun of an ABC compilation show.

[David]

America's Finest Home Videos.

[Griffin]

Yep. Still crushing.

[David]

It is the one consistent we have found across the entire history of Twin Peaks throughout decades.

[Fran Hoffner]

Oh, yeah.

[David]

Is that America's Finest Home Videos is unkillable.

[Griffin]

Yep. Just keeps going. The only other thing I want to point out in this list is that CBS ran something called Candy Crush. Was that just like a Candy Crush game show?

[David]

Must have been. Yeah, must have.

[Griffin]

Oh, my God. It was hosted by Mario Lopez.

[Fran Hoffner]

I just learned about Deal or no Deal Island.

[Griffin]

Several reviewers called it one of the worst game shows ever made.

[David]

I love Dealer no Deal so much and I think Dealer no Deal island is an affront to God.

[Fran Hoffner]

I just think it's so funny. We can put island on any.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Do they just play the game on an island?

[Fran Hoffner]

No, but I don't know what else they do. But that's part of it.

[David]

But I think there's like an additional aspect of some sort of survivory outlast.

[Griffin]

All right. No, I have to pee. And we've been going for a long time. Okay, well, I'm not complaining.

[David]

Fran.

[Fran Hoffner]

What?

[David]

Our dear friend, Blockbuster Fran Hoffman.

[Fran Hoffner]

Are you okay, Fran? Yeah, I'm fine.

[David]

Is there anything you'd like to play plug?

[Fran Hoffner]

I'll plug Fran magazine, of which subscribe. I'm actually the editor in chief.

[David]

Oh, my God.

[Fran Hoffner]

Sorry to downplay.

[David]

What a reveal.

[Fran Hoffner]

I'm sorry to downplay my own role in that magazine.

[David]

The Old Gray Lady.

[Fran Hoffner]

It's a. Yeah, yeah. The middle aged gray lady. Yeah, that's it. And bright wall, dark room, which I love to plug. She's always doing good stuff.

[David]

You're always doing great stuff over there. Yeah.

[Fran Hoffner]

I gotta figure out what to write about now next. Maybe I'll write about here or 10am.

[David]

Wicked have you seen here?

[Fran Hoffner]

No, but I really want to see here. I'm gonna see it.

[Griffin]

I don't like it, but I do want to know what Fran thinks.

[Fran Hoffner]

I have a story about it, but I'll tell it.

[David]

It's. It's a firmly off mic story. Yeah, okay. And hey, while you're signing up for Fran magazine on Substack, also check out the checkbook, the Blank Check News later and Jesus, the Blank Check newsletter, which Marie Barty is doing an incredible job with.

[Griffin]

And Ben, I think you want to.

[Ben]

Say something like a lot of the episodes. Not all of the episodes, but in a lot of the episodes. At Twin Peaks, it ends with a song. Oh, and it's that time of the year again.

[Griffin]

Jingle, jingle. That's my contribution.

[David]

Time to slow things down.

[Ben]

Yes, that's right. Another Slow Christmas is upon us.

[David]

Mm.

[Ben]

We're recording this in advance. I can say now, currently in this moment, I'm not exactly sure what the album is gonna be.

[David]

Exciting.

[Griffin]

Good.

[Ben]

Yep. But it will be out in the world at the time of this episode being released.

[Griffin]

So maybe this will be a less collab heavy and more like Ben back in the lab. Are we thinking.

[Ben]

No, it's just kind of more will people get stuff to me in time.

[David]

You're always putting out a lot of feelers and then there's a frantic rush of like, what's making it in by the deadline?

[Griffin]

Pretty much possibility. It's an entirely AI album. We'll see. Who knows?

[David]

Let's say no.

[Ben]

No, let's not.

[Griffin]

It won't be an AI album. Ben is not doing any. What's the thing everyone got mad about back in the day?

[David]

Many different. The Benft.

[Griffin]

Benft. None of that. Is all jokes. Yeah.

[Ben]

The end of the episode here. I figured I'd like to just play a little sample of one of the songs that I can confirm will be on the album.

[David]

Great call. Well, let's say. And as always, always. Here is an exclusive first glimpse for your ears of Slow Christmas. O.

[Griffin]

Town. How stupid. Now we and tree.