WALL-E with David Ehrlich

Summary

Blank Check with Griffin & David — “WALL-E” with David Ehrlich (June 28, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims are joined by film critic David Ehrlich for a deep dive into Pixar’s 2008 sci-fi masterpiece, WALL-E, directed by Andrew Stanton. Continuing their “Potsy” miniseries on Stanton’s filmography, the trio explores the film as both Stanton’s most significant “blank check” project and a culmination of Pixar’s own passion project era. With characteristic humor and insight, the hosts examine WALL-E’s creative development, technical achievements, cultural impact, and resonance in an era of automation and consumerism. They also share personal anecdotes about experiencing the film with their children, spotlighting its multigenerational appeal.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Blank Check Context & Pixar’s Autonomous Era

• Pixar’s deal with Disney: Pixar self-financed and produced Ratatouille, WALL-E, and Up with little to no Disney interference, creating what Griffin describes as “the only three movies [Pixar] make with just like zero commercial consideration, zero outside interference, zero studio pressure” (09:13).
• WALL-E as a “true blank check”: Positioned as Andrew Stanton’s big creative swing post-Finding Nemo, the film represents both personal vision and a moment where Pixar could create “without compromise” (09:15, 09:51).
• Steve Jobs’ involvement: Not just a funder but a true “note-giver,” Jobs wanted to know “the business model that makes sense for Axiom to be running the Starliner?” (21:43, 22:15). The hosts find humor in Jobs’s practical notes on an otherwise whimsical world.

2. Creative Development and Story Structure

• Origin Lunch: The concept for WALL-E (‘last robot on earth’) emerged from a legendary Pixar brainstorming lunch that spawned several classics (29:07-29:43).
• Shifting storylines: Before settling on the humans-as-babies motif, the film imagined gelatinous aliens as the evolved forms of humanity, but audience connection was lacking (37:05-39:51).
• WALL-E’s character: Inspired by “cheap binoculars” and a desire for minimal anthropomorphism, WALL-E is visually expressive through subtle changes in his “eyes”/lenses—an animation triumph (86:01, 86:18).
• Major late-stage changes: Stanton completely restructured the film's final act—even after animation—so that Eve saves WALL-E, not the other way around (42:38-43:36).

“We have to redo the entire last 20 minutes… Usually, it never gets that far.” — Griffin (43:00)

3. Themes: Automation, Capitalism & Emotional Resonance

• Technology and consumerism: The story is laden with criticism—sometimes subtle, sometimes overt—of consumer culture, passive automation, and corporate homogenization (e.g., “by and large” as a Walmart/Amazon fusion) (24:24, 26:09-26:30, 64:09).
• “Irrational love defeats programming”: Stanton’s thematic through-line is that “irrational love could defeat programming”—robots (and eventually humans) form emotional connections that transcend their utilitarian design (91:05).

“Robots acting like humans to teach humans how to stop acting like robots.” — David Ehrlich (47:22)

• Reflections on apathy vs. anger: What felt in 2008 like a warning about societal apathy now reads differently in a world dominated by “overriding anger,” but its critique of automation and human disengagement remains sharp (95:33-96:16).
• WALL-E as a religious allegory: They touch on Stanton’s Catholicism, seeing WALL-E as “waiting for a sign from God…waiting for Eve to come down” (91:51), and Eve as a literal and figurative deliverer.

4. Technical Marvel: Animation, Sound, & Cinematic Homage

• Visual storytelling and camera realism: Emphasis was placed on “making the virtual camera feel real,” consulting with Roger Deakins and Dennis Muren to imbue the film with physical imperfections resembling live-action cinematography (59:45-60:23).
• Ben Burtt’s sound design: Burtt, brought over from Star Wars, crafted WALL-E’s “cute” robot voice and language, drawing on physical recordings and performant synthesis (48:56-54:17).

“You would sort of break light through a prism…then you start fabricating, putting it all back together again.” — David Ehrlich, paraphrasing Ben Burtt (53:13)

• Silent comedy roots: Stanton and team studied Buster Keaton, Chaplin, and Jacques Tati for inspiration, leaning into pantomime, visual gags, and slapstick—especially in the film’s first act (41:41-42:55, 97:31-97:49).
• Production design and color scripting: Ralph Eggleston’s “color scripts” mapped the film’s emotional arc, making the transition from Earth’s warm, dusty palette to the Axiom’s sterile blues a part of the storytelling (98:43-99:41).

5. The Axiom: Humans, Robots, and Evolution

• Human “devolution”: The humans aboard Axiom are “big babies”—obese, passive, screen-addicted. The logistics of the ship’s operation (How do they eat? How do they reproduce?) are playfully interrogated, reflecting both Steve Jobs’s questions and audience curiosity (22:51-24:04, 151:02-154:04).
• The robots: Each robot’s “aberration” (WALL-E’s curiosity, Mo’s compulsion, Eve’s emotionality) marks their transcendence beyond simple programming, subtly distinguishing them from mere tools (87:29-88:51, 140:39-141:44).
• Mo & relationships: Ben’s riff on how his own marriage is “a Wally and a Mo” adds a personal and comedic layer to the film’s exploration of individuality vs. purpose (138:13-142:01).

6. Personal Experiences & Multigenerational Appeal

• Kids and WALL-E: David Ehrlich recounts his son’s multi-year WALL-E obsession—“he watched it once a day, twice on rainy days”—and revisiting the film with his children years later (12:22-14:59, 72:18-74:19). Ben similarly notes his children’s instant emotional investment: “Immediately fell in love with Wally, a la Wally falling in love with Eve…” (73:14).
• Viewing through a parent’s eyes: Watching the film with children allows the adults to rediscover it with “fresh eyes,” sometimes catching new details or emotional beats (14:59).

7. Critical and Cultural Impact

• Oscar legacy & the “broken” Academy: WALL-E’s six nominations and shutout in Best Picture and Best Director contributed to the move to ten Best Picture nominees. Up and Toy Story 3 would eventually benefit from this shift, but no animated film has since cracked the category (184:49-189:10).
• Box office & marketing challenges: Despite strong reviews and healthy box office returns, the lack of familiar merchandising or voice stars gave Disney marketing headaches (185:49-186:51).
• Cultural resonance: The anxiety around automation (including AI), consumer culture, and managed apathy is even more relevant almost two decades later (87:29-96:56).
• Topicality & Stanton’s reluctance: Stanton’s ambivalence about the film’s “message” (“the last thing I want to do is preach”—43:36) is balanced against its clear sociopolitical charge and his increasing openness in later interviews (44:16-47:22).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Pixar’s Creative Freedom

• Griffin: “Iger immediately resets the table and inherits Ratatouille, Wally and Up—which are the last three movies they make with just like zero commercial consideration, zero outside interference, zero studio pressure. And you could feel it even in how these three movies were marketed.” (09:51)

On the Robots’ Emotional Arcs

• Ben: “‘Irrational love defeats life’s programming.’ That’s what [Stanton] put on... a coffee cup so that everybody... could understand at every chain in the system what movie they were making.” (91:05)

On WALL-E’s Appeal to Children

• David Ehrlich: “I think it’s entirely possible, if not probable, that I have watched this movie more than any guest on this show, or host on this show for that matter, has ever watched any of the movies you’ve covered… my son thinks Wall E IS movies.” (12:22)

On Sound Design

• David Ehrlich: “... Ben Burtt... had just finished what he considered a basically 30 year tour of duty making Star Wars movies and was not that enthused about robots. But that kind of Keaton romance... that’s an interesting challenge.” (51:12)

On Thematic Relevance

• Ben: “The movie sort of indulges in the AI proponent fantasy of, oh, like, when we have full automation, no one’s gonna have to work... We’ve already seen that is not at all the reality.” (96:28)

On Personal Resonance

• Griffin: “This movie was fucking laser-targeted at 20-year-old Griffin. It could not have been more of a like direct hit.” (19:12)

On Humor & WALL-E’s Romance

• Ben: “I don’t know if there’s a better evocation in film, animated or otherwise, of what it feels like to be a neurotic teenage boy and have an intense crush on somebody.” (104:16)
• Griffin: “He’s smitten and also terrified.” (105:54)

On Cinematic Homages

• David Ehrlich: “As you’ve already mentioned, Stanton says they watched a Keaton and a Chaplin every single day. They were very in... interested in pantomime, conveying everything, right?” (97:31)

Mo & Relationships

• Ben: “Every relationship needs a Wally and a Mo.” (139:21)

On Ending & Emotional Stakes

• David Ehrlich: “You can’t end a Pixar movie that way.” — On the possibility of WALL-E remaining memory-wiped (183:14)

---

Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Podcasting as “eternal dance” intro / meta-title bits (00:13-01:50)
• The “Magic Lunch” that birthed WALL-E (29:07-29:43)
• Stanton’s shifting ideas for the humans and the Axiom (37:05-39:51)
• Steve Jobs’s business-model questions (21:43-22:15)
• Ben Burtt & the genius of sound (48:56-54:17)
• Ehrlich’s kids and WALL-E as “all movies” (12:22-14:59)
• Axiom, the babies, and devolution (151:02-154:04)
• First act visual storytelling dissection (81:05-83:36)
• Mo’s introduction and personality (140:39-142:44)
• End credits, emotional capstone, and legacy (184:33-185:49)
• Oscar impact: Best Picture expansion (184:49-189:10)
• Box Office Game for Wally’s release weekend (191:56-199:01)
• Asa’s audio cameo: What is Big City Greens? And WALL-E? (205:34-end)

---

Episode Tone & Style

As with most Blank Check episodes, the discussion is rigorous yet playful. The hosts toggle between cinephile analysis, inside jokes, and personal stories, with Ehrlich bringing both critical acumen and real-life “dad” perspective. The tone is warm, nerdy, and self-deprecating, often breaking for bits about film trivia, podcasting routines, and impressions of industry figures. Segues into tangents about Oscar history, cinema sound, or the minutiae of animation are typical and amusing. Most importantly, the love for the film—and for Pixar’s creative spirit—shines through.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Blank Check makes a compelling case for WALL-E as one of Pixar’s and Andrew Stanton’s crowning achievements: a bold, experimental, and deeply emotional work whose soulfulness persists across years, audiences, and even generations. The film’s marriage of sophisticated visual craft, silent-comedy homage, and topical messaging about automation, consumerism, and love—whether or not explicitly intended—ensures its status as both a “kid’s movie” and an enduring work of art. In the words of the hosts: “Wally is a very good movie and he’s my good friend.” (201:55)

---

Recommended for: Fans of animation, sci-fi, Pixar obsessives, and anyone interested in the idiosyncratic, surprise-packed process of making an all-time great film.

Transcript

[Griffin Newman]

Blank check with Griffin and David. Blankjack with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect.

[Ben Hosley]

All you need to know is that

[Griffin Newman]

the name of the shy with blank jack.

[David Ehrlich]

Computer defined podcasting.

[Griffin Newman]

Podcasting. A series of tangents involving two friends where bits and context match harmoniously with bullshit.

[David Sims]

What.

[David Ehrlich]

What's. What's being replaced there? Especially with bullshit.

[Griffin Newman]

The actual line is a series of movements involving two partners where speed and rhythm match harmoniously with music.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. The dancing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

And we are dancing.

[Griffin Newman]

We are dancing.

[Ben Hosley]

A lot of creative liberties taken there.

[David Ehrlich]

We're in an eternal dance.

[Ben Hosley]

It's rare that you get quite so much room to free jazz in these intros.

[David Ehrlich]

You didn't want to just do.

[Griffin Newman]

I thought about it.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Um, I mean, this series is called Potsy and I was like, can I just do the dialogue where they're trying to explain each other's names to each other?

[Ben Hosley]

You were able to sell him on Potsy?

[Griffin Newman]

I was.

[David Ehrlich]

There's not a lot of either in

[Ben Hosley]

the pot of a cast or as Griffin suggested, Podsy Beck alter last week's

[Griffin Newman]

episode did throw out. Would it be funny to just call it podcaster for John Carter and remove.

[David Ehrlich]

We can never blow that. We can never do this. Sort of like, you know what? That's it. But there's just called, like podcast.

[Griffin Newman]

There's the meta joke there of being like, how did this end up with the title that makes no sense and has zero juice?

[David Ehrlich]

You do like a meta joke.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, but see, I'm.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm fine with it.

[Griffin Newman]

If you perform, it's going to look so good visual with the double D with those double Ds on that artwork there.

[David Ehrlich]

Pod C. Make sure Griff has a giant rack on our pod artwork.

[Griffin Newman]

Pat. No, Ben, throw those double D's on. I want to be a stacked robot or a bodacious fish pet. This is my new character.

[David Ehrlich]

And. And what is it? And what is this?

[Ben Hosley]

Honestly, not even during the Becker talk was I quite as confused.

[Griffin Newman]

We're going to find it by the end of this episode. We're going to locate this guy and we're going to figure out what makes him tick. How's Becker?

[Ben Hosley]

We're not going down that road.

[Griffin Newman]

He's coming back, right? He's got to be coming back.

[Ben Hosley]

Listen, Malcolm in the Middle's back.

[David Ehrlich]

This is exactly in the world of legacy equals. They're. They're going to keep digging until the world collapses.

[Griffin Newman]

Becker Colon. Life is unfair.

[David Ehrlich]

Any interest in Malcolm in the Middle Wife is unfair. Anyone watching that?

[Griffin Newman]

I'VE heard it's fun.

[Ben Hosley]

Once you lose Eric Per Sullivan, I am out.

[Griffin Newman]

That is always my favorite thing in the world.

[David Ehrlich]

He's just like, no, thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

And they're like, everyone's like, they offered him so much fucking money. They were like, this guy's playing such smart, horrible, and he's like, I actually just have no interest.

[David Ehrlich]

They're offering him so much money to be. To do nothing. Like, you know, you're just gonna be the seventh guy and you're just gonna go like.

[Griffin Newman]

And he was just like, no animosity. I love all of you. I wish you all the best. I have no desire to do this again.

[David Ehrlich]

It's very impressive.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, someone who has no desire to watch that show. I feel like I understand where he's coming from.

[David Ehrlich]

I love Malcolm in the Middle. Like, when it was on, like, I was a big fan. It was a show that I tried to rewatch during COVID I can't imagine in my classic kind of, you know, in the COVID way of like, well, this could be something. And I watched the pilot and I was like, there's nothing wrong with this. Like, this is well executed. I remember it fondly.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's moment.

[David Ehrlich]

It's. Yeah, I'm not feeling a desire to return here. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

There's something telling to me in the fact that Malcolm in the Middle has not had any, like, Gen Z. Yeah, sure. Rediscovery.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. Despite Cranston's, you know, career, that it

[Griffin Newman]

feels like this show is purely nostalgia for those of us who grew up

[Ben Hosley]

with it, which, I mean, nostalgic for Frankie Muniz's tweets about death. Frankie Munis seems like a very well adjusted gentleman.

[David Ehrlich]

I was about to say.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Do you remember that period where he was like, racing cars and he got in so many car crashes where he

[David Ehrlich]

was like, I have no memories of

[Griffin Newman]

Malcolm in the Middle.

[David Ehrlich]

I do.

[Griffin Newman]

And now he's like, out there promoting the Malcolm in the Middle reboot. And he was like, it was so nice to get all together again. And I'm like, don't you not know who Brian Cranston is?

[David Ehrlich]

Just that great moment where he was, like, doing a Talk Back with Cranston and he was like, by the way, your wife on Breaking Bad, what a shitty character. She's always in his way. And he was like, you realize I was playing like a sociopathic drug dealer.

[Griffin Newman]

It's so funny to be like Cranston and a gun fudgeing. Vince Gilligan, I feel like, have been so consistent in talking out against that line of criticism of the show.

[David Ehrlich]

He's always been very good and be

[Griffin Newman]

like looking right mirror and to have Cranston there with like his fake TV son and be like glowing and be like, it's so nice to be all together and then watch the terror on his face where it's like, you have this opinion too.

[David Ehrlich]

Not shocking again, that essentially a brain damaged child star would have that opinion. No offense.

[Ben Hosley]

Someone who was not working during the exact years that Reddit began taking over. Everyone's right, Frank.

[Griffin Newman]

Frankie Muniz's like triple crown of press was, I think Skyler's the villain on Breaking Bad. Two was, I made Shia LaBeouf's career by turning down holes. And three was, did I make out with Hillary Duff? I don't know.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, there was also the sub story about how because Hillary Duff's mom insisted that she was going to be an agent, Cody Banks, he blocked her from being in the film because he was like, you're stepping on my turf.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

He was like 12.

[Griffin Newman]

She is in both of them, is she not?

[David Ehrlich]

Certainly in the first.

[Ben Hosley]

Whatever. There was some story recently, some actress's mom. I think it was Hilary Duff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Who was stage momming for her daughter, essentially, and saying like, oh, she'd be perfect for the lead in whatever your next movie is. And I will admit to not being totally off book on my Frankie Muniz.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, because we are doing Frankie Muniz next on Patreon. So it's two Cody Banks, he in

[Ben Hosley]

the bar mitzvah movie with Giamatti.

[Griffin Newman]

The bar mitzvah movie with Giamatti.

[Ben Hosley]

Am I inventing movies now that I want to see? Well, it was piven in the bar mitzvah movie.

[Griffin Newman]

That's Keeping up with the Steins. That's.

[Ben Hosley]

That's should have been.

[Griffin Newman]

That's Gary Marshall Nepel baby movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. That's sort of aspirational Jewish casting. It's like, I wish ji were one of us.

[Griffin Newman]

No Muniz, you got my dog Skip. You got two Cody Banks, you got Big Fat Liar. And I feel like that's the canon, right?

[David Sims]

It is.

[David Ehrlich]

It's the American canon.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know what else is really funny? I'm sorry, I'm just remembering this and it sort of makes more sense now that Muniz is like, well, they were begging me to do holes and I turned it down. And like, Shia picked up my scraps.

[Ben Hosley]

Movie Holes will never not be funny to me.

[Griffin Newman]

I'M sorry. Show holes was what kids were demanding to theater owners at the time.

[Ben Hosley]

Don't like it in that. The way you say it like that.

[Griffin Newman]

Show holes at I think around the time that Wall Street Money Never Sleeps came out, Shia did some interview where they were like, you've had five or six consecutive number one openings in a row. Like, are you the guy now? And do you feel worried about maintaining that track record? And he was like, yeah, but like, look at the things I was in. It was like Transformers and Indiana Jones and a Wall street sequel with Michael Douglas. I'm not taking credit for that. Frankie Muniz could have opened these movies to number one. And I remember that feeling like such a weird burn at the time of like, who's got negative juice?

[Ben Hosley]

Shia LaBeouf, our finest comedian. Very level headed movie star.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Anyway, go over to our Patreon if you want to hear the films of Moon as Moon Is.

[Ben Hosley]

From the Earth to the Moon is.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, yes. That's what we're calling it. That's not what we're talking about here today. Today we're talking about one of our finest movie stars. His name is Wallace E. Is it? Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, his name's Wallacey. No, he's waste allocation load lifter Earth.

[David Ehrlich]

Correct. Waste allocation load lifter Earth class.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Because later in the film we see the Wall A's.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. And there's the Bernies and all that. Right. There's all the. Those are all the guys.

[Griffin Newman]

But the Wall A's are Axiom class.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

They're big boys of the same. Of the same deal. Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

And they still make Cube.

[Griffin Newman]

They still make Cube.

[David Ehrlich]

They make Cube.

[Griffin Newman]

This movie about Make Cube.

[David Ehrlich]

This movie is about make Cube.

[Ben Hosley]

There should be a Wall E that.

[David Sims]

Well, garbage cube, let's say.

[David Ehrlich]

Sure.

[David Sims]

It's an important distinction.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

But what's the robot Mo Fun Guy?

[Griffin Newman]

The best performance in the movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. I mean, we'll talk about how my wife sexually identifies as Mo later, but we'll get there in due time.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Today on this podcast, which is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I almost fucked up the name of the podcast. It's called Blank Check with Griffin and David Earth class. I'm Griffin.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm David.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as making one of the ten highest grossing films of all time. The highest grossing animated film of all time. Fish. He said, what if Fish were lost and people threw money and Oscars at him and are Given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. This certainly classifies. Sometimes those checks clear this movie and sometimes they bounce next week.

[David Ehrlich]

Maybe this is also true.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a miniseries on the films of Andrew Stan. It's called Potsy Potsy. And today we're talking about Wally, his. His true blink check. And also it feels like the culmination of like a blink check moment for Pixar at large.

[David Ehrlich]

I would say both correct on both for sure. Yep. Obviously John Carter is a huge blank check as well, but at least with that one you can argue like it is a known property of sorts and blah, blah, blah, you know, Whereas this is. It's truly like him being like, I think I want to push my capital on this and Pixar agreeing like I think we should.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And we will get into this. But it's the thing I'm fascinated by endlessly, which is because of the nature of the deal that Pixar had with Disney, a deal that everyone thought was going to end acrimoniously after Cars, the final movie that Pixar owed Disney from a 90s deal Pixar just started with Steve Jobs help self financing and self producing movies with no outside interference. There are three movies they just make completely independently, knowing that when the Disney deal is over, everyone is going to want to be in the Pixar business and they just go to the highest bidder. Iger takes over, Eisner leaves, Iger immediately resets the table and figures out how to make good with Pixar and inherits Ratatouille, Wally and Up, which are the last three movies they make and the only three movies they make with just like zero commercial consideration, zero outside interference, zero studio pressure. And you could feel it even in how these three movies were marketed.

[Ben Hosley]

Griffin, you sound like someone who has a vested interest and passion for Pixar. Are we far out of your wheelhouse? This a surprise to me.

[Griffin Newman]

I am. I'm introducing this thread of my interest to our listeners today for the first time. People were like, why the would blank check cover Andrew Stan? Is that a David Push?

[David Ehrlich]

What?

[David Sims]

Me?

[David Ehrlich]

This is the joke. It's a bit. Okay, okay.

[Griffin Newman]

What were you gonna say?

[David Ehrlich]

Me?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

I like Wally.

[Griffin Newman]

Wally's a really good guy.

[Ben Hosley]

Wally.

[David Ehrlich]

I've only grown to like him more.

[Griffin Newman]

Producer Ben, had you seen this movie before?

[David Ehrlich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. Because this is the era we found

[David Ehrlich]

out last week, not a cartoon era

[Griffin Newman]

that you hadn't seen Finding Nemo. And this is an era where you were opting out of A lot of the mainstream culture that.

[David Sims]

And just. Just kids movies I wasn't interested in.

[Ben Hosley]

I feel like Trash Planet is up your alley. That's Trash being the original title.

[David Ehrlich]

But did you see.

[David Sims]

No.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. You caught up with it later.

[Griffin Newman]

When do you think you saw it for the first time?

[David Sims]

God, I. I could not tell you.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm just curious if it was, like, shortly after or like, if you saw it in the last decade for the first time.

[David Sims]

In the last decade.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

This movie has a lot of Ben in it.

[David Sims]

I really relate to Wally.

[Griffin Newman]

He's a really good guy, I feel.

[Ben Hosley]

Were you ever best friends with a cockroach? No. Gotta try it.

[David Sims]

No, not yet. I really relate to just being a rusty garbage boy.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our guest today is someone who's made a legitimate bid for most times watching Wally.

[Ben Hosley]

I think I was thinking about this. I think it's entirely possible, if not probable, that I have watched this movie more than any guest on this show, or host on this show for that matter, has ever watched any of the movies you've covered, with a possible exception being Sims and Ponyo. But I think my son's Wall E fixation was so specific and unrelenting that I may. I may have taken that particular crown. Not that I am proud when we

[Griffin Newman]

finally committed to doing this series. When Toy Story 5 got dated, we just typed you in.

[David Ehrlich]

You're right on the list.

[Griffin Newman]

It took months before we even went, like, we should ask or like, we should just, like, double check. But there was an extended period where, as you described it to me, my son thinks Wally is movies.

[Ben Hosley]

That's right.

[Griffin Newman]

He doesn't understand that there's any other movie that's ever been made.

[Ben Hosley]

Correct. We were. We were on a plane. And the only way to pacify him was to put something on.

[David Ehrlich]

Was that I said Nirvana over here because they have a song called On a Plane. Although of course, it's a different. They mean a plane.

[Ben Hosley]

Like we were on Disney's planes.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, Disney's planes.

[Ben Hosley]

Fire and Rescue. A movie I am very glad he is yet to discover. And yeah, we needed to pass by him. Wally was on the seat back screen, courtesy of Delta. And I think he watched it six or seven times. Six, Seven. Jesus Christ. Before we're doing the hands. Doing the hands. And that was it for the next calendar year. Wally once a day, twice on rainy day.

[David Ehrlich]

It was.

[Griffin Newman]

It was one full year, basically. Right of the wall year. Yes. Yes. You probably watched it 500 times. It was in your home 500 times.

[Ben Hosley]

It was. It was.

[David Ehrlich]

You're not always watching.

[Ben Hosley]

I think at a certain point, your eyes glaze over and you actually begin to retain less of the movie than you did originally. It's a sort of blurs together as out of self preservation, but. And you'll find that I think I have less of a handle on the details of this film than someone who's only seen it two or three times.

[Griffin Newman]

It's been abstracted. It's like a magic eye.

[David Ehrlich]

I had a little bit of that rewatching it last night realization.

[Griffin Newman]

I did as well. I actually had to, like, make an active effort to kind of re. Engage with it. We talk about this sometimes on the podcast. Can I try to watch this movie fresh again? Can I try to, like, really engage with it rather than take it for granted when it's things I've seen so many times and I. This movie, at the time, was the most I had ever seen a film in a theater. It might still be. And I watched it so obsessively for years. It might have hit 10. Like, it might have.

[Ben Hosley]

I thought it could have been higher.

[Griffin Newman]

Eight or nine.

[Ben Hosley]

All right. The only way to watch a movie like this fresh, in my experience anyway, is through the eyes of a child. Uh, especially a child seeing it for the first time, which is what I did with my daughter last night.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, this is what I was hoping for.

[Ben Hosley]

Tried to. Wally Pillar. Uh, we can talk. We can get into that. I don't know if now is the

[Griffin Newman]

time, but our guest today, and this is unique, this is a kind of competitive advantage he has on this podcast. Our guest today is a film critic named David, who has children, who he watches movies with.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm a real poser in the. The David category, although I did have children first. I will say, if someone's copying someone here, it ain't me.

[David Ehrlich]

I will never forget David. I'm sure I've brought this up before being at the theater to watch Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood.

[Griffin Newman]

Good movie.

[David Ehrlich]

A movie I always say I saw in 40x because I saw it at the Alamo, and I ordered a cup of tea and some cookies.

[Griffin Newman]

That's good. I rewatched that movie recently.

[David Ehrlich]

It's a great movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's really good. It's a really good movie.

[David Ehrlich]

I've always been a fierce defender of that movie. So that's Thanksgiving 2019. I had helped you bring a snoo up your stairs that day. That morning, I think. Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

It was about seven minutes before we left for the hospital.

[David Ehrlich]

So you had texted me, being like hey, we really need to get this new up the Stairs. It's a smart bassinet. It's a. You may. You may find yourself with a snoo one day, Ben. Like, who knows? We can talk snoo whenever.

[Ben Hosley]

Advertise on the show. It's. It's a great product.

[David Ehrlich]

I did use snooze myself and like, hey, can you bring up the stairs? And then you texted me while I was in the movie. Oh, Lord, he coming.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh Lord, he coming. And oh Lord, he came. Little baby Wally.

[Griffin Newman]

You did name him Wally, which kind of maybe forced the issue on it being his favorite movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Our guess is a little bit of nominative determinism. Anyway, say my name.

[Griffin Newman]

David Ehrlich, bitch.

[Ben Hosley]

Finally, after this parade of no name hacks and losers that you guys have had for guests to start 2026, someone of real cultural importance, someone who had the foresight, the gall to tell the world Lee Cronin's the Mummy. Not great.

[Griffin Newman]

That is what you're going to be remembering.

[David Ehrlich]

You hadn't seen it.

[Ben Hosley]

I sure have. And, and reviewed.

[David Ehrlich]

And you liked.

[Ben Hosley]

Did not.

[David Ehrlich]

Let me see.

[Ben Hosley]

Did not care for it.

[David Ehrlich]

Let me see what you said.

[Ben Hosley]

Not a. Not a fan.

[David Ehrlich]

That's not Lee Ker enough for you, right?

[Ben Hosley]

That's what it did.

[David Ehrlich]

It did under delivers on Lee Cronin.

[Griffin Newman]

That Lee Cronin feeling.

[Ben Hosley]

Anyone Any identifiable C minus?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, look, the obvious position they were in there was Universal kind of pushed Blumhouse off of the classic monsters. Right. Clearly Blumhouse was like, these are all public domain. Can we keep doing our like takes on them? So they set up a Mummy movie at New Line. They don't have the Universal branding. And then they find out that Universal is going to reboot the Brendan Fraser Mummy when there's already been three different Universal movies just called the Mummy. And their pivot is.

[Ben Hosley]

Was Brendan Fraser in this one? I can't remember.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Was to call it Lee Cronin's the Mummy. Why did they just call it Mummy?

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, Mummy. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

If they called it Mommy Reborn, I think it would have like, we have real mommy at home vibes.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. I think also, like, if they. Because of the Brendan Fraser convention of why don't they call it here? This will distinguish it from Bren the Mummy, Tomb of the Dragon Emperor.

[Ben Hosley]

There's certainly never been a movie by that title.

[David Ehrlich]

And put Brendan Fraser's face on the poster. But then be clear in small text, he's not in the film. All I could think about, we just admire his work.

[Ben Hosley]

Lee Cronin's the Mummy is how hilarious it would be if Brendan Fraser, cinema's biggest goofball, walked into this dire as hell story about child death and possession. It would be like Brendan Fraser walking into like a Serbian film.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, he's got the girl.

[Ben Hosley]

Hilarious.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got the girl.

[Ben Hosley]

He's got the girl. One of the all time great quotes from.

[Griffin Newman]

From whom? From Marty Scorches. Do you not remember this?

[David Ehrlich]

I don't.

[Griffin Newman]

When people were asking him about the Fraser casting in Killers of the Flower Moon and he said he had the look, he had the energy, he had.

[Ben Hosley]

It's all clicking into place. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Today we're talking about Wally.

[David Ehrlich]

Wally.

[Griffin Newman]

This is one of my favorite movies of all time. This is a movie. And this was the other thing about watching it.

[David Ehrlich]

So you think Nemo perfect.

[Griffin Newman]

I do.

[David Ehrlich]

But you do prefer this, right?

[Griffin Newman]

I was swinging back and forth while watching this. I mean this movie is. It's just very personal to me. And in a way watching this, I was like, God, this thing was fucking laser targeted at 20 year old Griffin. It could not have been more of a like direct hit. So it was interesting to rewatch it and, and, and feel nostalgic for what it meant to that guy at that time. Not that it feels dispersenal unpersonal now.

[David Ehrlich]

Sure, yeah, yeah, no, I totally understand. I mean this was a movie that when it was announced, I was so hyped by the premise that it did at the time under deliver.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, see it over delivered for me.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. I was. My expectations for this were so high that I think I had the experience that a lot of people had at the time that we will talk about of the second act hitting a little less hard for me and me being like, right, it's a Pixar movie. Like it. Which I love Pixar movies. But I was like, right. Fundamental. And I grew to love it much more once my daughter got into it. I had a whole re. Love affair with Wally and now I prefer the second half to the first.

[Griffin Newman]

That's interesting.

[David Ehrlich]

And I just love it.

[Griffin Newman]

You say half, but this is.

[David Ehrlich]

No, it's like even third movie. Yeah, yeah, third. Third.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. It's like the first third is Earth.

[David Ehrlich]

But I prefer the, the Axiom stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

But I love it all, to be clear.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I love, I love it all too. We're gonna get into it. But I mean both of you saw it at that time.

[David Ehrlich]

I, I remember I saw it at the Village East. I remember.

[Griffin Newman]

Similarly, I saw this almost every theater in New York City. But I, I remember even before it was officially announced, there were swirling rumors of Andrew Stanton's next movie is a rom com about robots in the style of silent comedy. And I was like, that feels fake. There was a nervousness even at like the, the, the rumor of the vibe of the thing. That was so my shit.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Is this movie Steve Jobs greatest contribution to society?

[Griffin Newman]

It's a great question. I was digging through all the, the Criterion extras and the only Disney movie in the Criterion collection, certainly the only proper Disney movie with a Disney fucking logo at the top.

[David Ehrlich]

That's a great question. I have no idea. Yeah, you might be.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I'm like, maybe there's like another like touchstone. Miramax is no longer owned by Disney. But you could say that Disney commissioned

[Ben Hosley]

at the time this was a a la carte one off choice that did not personal relationship exactly. Of sort of a larger trend.

[Griffin Newman]

Although, who knows. Fucking Disney just laid off, shut down its entire home media department in order to replace it with wallies. But what was I saying here? Oh, there's a thing on the Criterion disk where he said when he was running things by Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs biggest question, slash note was what is the business model that makes sense for Axiom to be running the Starliner?

[David Ehrlich]

Oh, I mean I've had this question.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. Of like profiting, right.

[David Ehrlich]

Like how does this work 700 years in? And I always just kind of like settle on like well, they just want to be alive. So this self perpetuating and they just kind of.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, but Steve Jobs, who never designed anything that did not fail after five years. Well, by design.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Would never develop a spaceship that lasted for seven centuries.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct, Correct. And it's obviously still a like highly consumerist culture.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're not seeing Transformer as how. And you're like, who's getting the money

[David Ehrlich]

from where does the money go?

[Griffin Newman]

Right. That's what's fascinating about it.

[David Ehrlich]

But I mean I don't think there is money.

[Ben Hosley]

No, I agree of the Axiom as sort of the Apple store and all of the transactionality is happening sort of within.

[David Ehrlich]

But.

[Ben Hosley]

And the Apple stores, you know, do tend to hold up against wear and tear.

[David Ehrlich]

I suppose I feel like it's more just like the Axiom built these ships for profit long ago.

[Griffin Newman]

Excuse me, BNL bought.

[David Ehrlich]

Sorry. BNL built the Axiom ships for profit long ago. They made the money, the ships took off. Right. But then after that, right. Of course, like human commerce just cease

[Griffin Newman]

to exist because they assume they would actually get back to Earth and whatever transactions they made on the Axiom would then translate back to a world with whatever fudgeing digital fiat currencies.

[Ben Hosley]

What did they eat, though?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, on the ship. Yeah. They have the food in a cup.

[David Sims]

They're not growing anything.

[David Ehrlich]

No. It's all just fucking. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Just like energy. Pizza cup, whatever. It does raise the question when you see in the movie the sort of, like, advertisements for the new products or like, everyone's switching from red to blue or whatever you're like, is that one loop that's been repeating for 200 years? Is the thing just fully stuck in?

[Ben Hosley]

Like, every generation switches from red to blue.

[David Ehrlich]

Someone also.

[Griffin Newman]

Or it happens like once a week or once a year.

[David Ehrlich]

Someone did the math also that humans basically live like 160, 180 years on the Axiom because of the amount of captains there have been.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Like, you see the sort of. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

List of them because is it 750 years?

[David Ehrlich]

Some 700 plus years.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Explained by microgravity, where you would have no stress on your muscles or your organs.

[Griffin Newman]

Your bones get little.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

I have so much stress on my bones. Yeah. I mean, it does. That Steve Jobs note and his involvement in this movie to begin with does sort of speak to the commerciality that was at the heart of the Pixar ethos in a way that I like. All of their movies, particularly early on, thinking about Toy Story, Monsters Inc. And Now Wally, which is sort of an auto commentary on all this, are rooted in precepts of capitalism in a way that I always found as sort of not a barrier to entry, but like a low ceiling on how much I could love them. It was just. They were so distinctly American in that way.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

And as opposed to something like the obvious comparison of Studio Ghibli, which just were more of an invitation to wonder for me. And I think Wally, which is so rooted in wonder, if anything, is an act of trying to reclaim that and merge it with the capitalistic impulse.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, you're also forgetting that Fucking A Bug's Life is about communism and collective action.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, Bug's Life, you know, a remake of Seven Samurai, but even, you know, even that is maybe further afield from.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but you're right. It was A lot of the Pixar thing was putting adult structures onto fantastical characters in children's films. Like I. I went on our. Our friends Emily St. James and Philip Isco's podcast. Podcast like it's. And did a Monsters, Inc. Episode with them, I think, came out earlier this year. I was like, this movie is a Kind of like ground zero for a thing that becomes a cancer in children's films, which is, what if Magical Thing was a business? And Monsters Inc. Still is the one that's done it the best.

[Ben Hosley]

But also Toy Story says, what if business was a magical thing? And so it is sort of.

[Griffin Newman]

And also like Pixar.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

What if the dynamics of your toys talked, like, bored, sort of like office workers and. Yeah, yeah. And then this movie is the one that's sort of. I mean, I remember the amount of reviews at the time that were like, this message is nice. But also every store is littered with Wally merch. This movie's being released by Disney.

[David Ehrlich]

This is true.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, it has a happy Meal. Like, of course, yes, but if you

[David Ehrlich]

want to make $180 billion movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

You're probably gonna have to sell some toys.

[Ben Hosley]

But the call is coming from inside the house. Was ever thus with capitalism as Boots Riley.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. But you're right that the. The framework is different in that this is a movie of, like, someone trying to break down that system and that structure.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. Or at least look for the cracks in it to, you know, have opportunities for. For wonder to sort of bridge. I mean, this movie is in many ways, which talk about sort of bridging two worlds. And I think in this particular regard, it's bridging the world of. Of art and commerce in that sense, which is obviously implicit to everything that Pixar does. But this is doing it a little bit more literally. But, yeah, they. You gotta eat. You know, these movies are made for profit.

[David Ehrlich]

You gotta eat, Wally.

[Ben Hosley]

Unless you're Wally and you can just drink up those.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm opening the dots.

[Ben Hosley]

They flow. They fly too close to the sun, which famously not something you should do.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But it helps them recharge really quickly.

[Ben Hosley]

Quickly.

[David Ehrlich]

It starts, of course, with lunch. Wow. JJ's getting, like, kind of narrative with his research docs these days. Lunch at the Hidden City Cafe in Port Richmond Point Richmond, near the headquarters of Pixar.

[Griffin Newman]

Famously, the teaser trailer for this movie.

[David Ehrlich]

I remember this teaser trailer and I was excited for this movie. I was like, jerking a big dick watching. I was just like, get the out of here.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you know about this, Ben?

[David Sims]

No.

[Griffin Newman]

So speaking of Disney, like, making the deal, inheriting these three Pixar movies that they had no say in. And it's like, good luck. Your next three movies to market are movie about a French rat who believes in high cuisine. Right. At a time where, like, Americans did not fucking care about food. A silent robot comedy and an Old grumpy old man whose wife died in a flying house. And they were like, the fuck are we gonna do with these? And the Ratatouille teaser trailer famously has the thing where it spells out the title phonetically. And it's all like a made up scene of the character direct addressing the camera, explaining to you what the premises. Because they were like, fuck are we going to do with this? And then the Wall E teaser trailer is Andrew Stanton talking about this experience at the Hidden City Cafe. Like, the trailer only has like 20 seconds of animation footage in. Is basically all trying to explain to you, trust us, where Pixar is that

[Ben Hosley]

the trailer where they have the Brazil music?

[Griffin Newman]

I think so, yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Anyway, it talks about it was Lasseter, Dr. Joe ranft him. And they hammer up Bugs, Life, Monsters, Inc. Finding Nemo. And then the last one they talked about was Wall E. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

So basically they're in production on Toy Story. They're like, should we be coming up with other ideas in case this thing's a hit? And they ask us what our next movie is? We shouldn't be unprepared. So they sit this one lunch in all of those movies come out of that one lunch. Obviously not fully formed, but that's what they're fucking framing in the fact.

[David Ehrlich]

Let me tell you, right? Stanton's actual report on that slightly massaged kind of advertising massage of the teaser

[Griffin Newman]

is, this is the most magical lunch of all time.

[Ben Hosley]

Have what she's having. Am I right?

[David Sims]

What did they eat?

[Griffin Newman]

Every movie that came out of this has been beloved. Trust us. This is the final movie from that.

[David Ehrlich]

They drink story juice. Oh, yes. And they ate movie sandwiches. So Stanton has said, look, we had ideas that inspired those movies. Obviously we did not, like, come up with a bunch of finished things.

[Griffin Newman]

It would be fun to have bugs. What if you make a movie about, like monsters in children's bedrooms? Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

He said the bulk of the lunch was A Bug's Life. We truly came up with a large chunk of the movie in that lunch. And then probably the second most concrete idea, even though it was half baked, was the last robot on Earth, a machine left running, not sure what to do with itself idea. There was no name, no storyline. It was really just a character. But we liked the character. Like, we like that idea. We're in the middle of Toy Story and we have been really struggling to make Woody appealing. So I think they were really into this kind of like Robinson Crusoe robot because they're like, that's appealing. That's like a good Guy.

[Griffin Newman]

You're already rooting for that guy.

[David Ehrlich]

Exactly. Although also a little sad. Kind of a sad, because I remember saying to a friend of mine when I was, like, really hyped for this movie before, I was like, it's about, like, a garbage robot that, like, Earth is just a pile of garbage and everyone's gone. And he just keeps. And he was like, that sounds so depressing. And I was like, right. But, like, that's crazy, right? Isn't that cool?

[Ben Hosley]

Like.

[David Ehrlich]

So the film was initially called Trash Planet.

[Griffin Newman]

Trash Planet, Ben.

[David Sims]

I mean, I like Wall E's a good title, but Trash Planet really draws you in.

[David Ehrlich]

The pitch was Pete Doctors Andrew Inherits It.

[Griffin Newman]

There was basically a Yankee.

[David Ehrlich]

Just like the very, very basic pitch,

[Griffin Newman]

but for a period of time, Stanton to crack Monsters, Inc. And Dr. Was trying to do Wally. And then they end up swapping and Stanton ends up also coming up with Finding Nemo, which then supersedes.

[Ben Hosley]

Thank God they switched. If Dr. Had done it, there would have been, like, a droid named Loneliness and he would have been like, you know, there would. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's why Dr. Gets the CO story credit, because he basically was the one who incubated a very different version of this first.

[David Ehrlich]

So Stanton's working on Nemo. He starts dreaming of Trash Planet again.

[Griffin Newman]

It basically becomes his, like Barton Fink to his Miller's Cross. And while he's working on Nemo, where when he's hit a wall, he's like, let me. Let me noodle on this and type some shit out. He said basically that the first act, his quote, fell from the sky. He was like, that felt like, so complete to me.

[David Ehrlich]

Right? What do I do?

[Griffin Newman]

And then I never knew what to do once he leaves.

[David Ehrlich]

Then he's like, well, the opposite of loneliness is love, so it should be a love story.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay.

[David Ehrlich]

He was seduced by this idea of, like, he falls in love with another machine. Okay, so where did the machine come from? Right? What does that machine have interest in? Now, this is, as you've noted, the man is religious. The greatest commandment Christ gives us is to love. But that's not always our priority.

[Ben Hosley]

UST is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

[David Ehrlich]

So I came up with this premise that could demonstrate what I was talking about, that irrational love could defeat programming. Right? You got these two robots with the base directive, but then the love kind of overrides it. Yeah, this is what he's saying, not me.

[Griffin Newman]

No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to sit on my read on this movie for a moment.

[David Ehrlich]

So obviously this is a risky thing. They are a little worried. They do have the blank check status of Pixar's huge success and especially Nemo's huge success that I think Stanton can sort of ask essentially what he did, which is like, can you leave me alone? Can I try to write it? Like, let's not do this sort of big edit room, like together or whatever and you know, like, can I write like an original sci fi movie? He loves sci fi movies. Alien, Star Wars. Yes, These are big 2001.

[Griffin Newman]

I've seen them.

[David Ehrlich]

Eventually, Jim Reardon, who's a Simpsons guy

[Griffin Newman]

he directed, comes in to co write the best Simpsons episodes of all time.

[David Ehrlich]

Such as what?

[Griffin Newman]

He directed King, the one with Kid Rock.

[David Ehrlich]

King Size Homer. You know what? King Size Homer is pretty funny.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm gonna give you a list in a second because it's actually astonishing.

[David Ehrlich]

No, it's often just amazing when you see those Simpsons vets where you're like, oh my God, everything I did is amazing. And you're like, of course. Yes, everything the Simpsons did was amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

He kind of had a reputation for a while, he was a CalArts guy as well of being the best animation comedy writer of his generation. He became more of a writer guy, but then he directs many Simpsons. He worked on the Mighty Mouse cartoon under Ralph Bakshi with Stanton, which is where they became friends. His big breakout was his student film was called Bring me the Head of Charlie Brown. That was a peck and pop version of Peanuts that was semi viral in a tape trading kind of remember.

[David Ehrlich]

Right, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Episodes he directed. If I can just fucking, like, give me a couple. Yes. Itchy and Scratchy and Marge, Bart's dog gets an F Brushed with greatness when Flanders failed. Trios of Horror 2. Homer at the bat. Dog of Death. Bart's friend falls in love. Homer the heretic. Mr. Plow, Duffless Margin chains. Homer goes to college like insane at

[David Ehrlich]

the Bad is huge for me.

[Griffin Newman]

Bart of Darkness. Bar of Darkness is Lemon of Troy.

[David Ehrlich]

Lemon of Troy is so good.

[Griffin Newman]

He directed like a lot of the best ones from the best era, the Simpsons.

[Ben Hosley]

It was a good show. It was. Yes, it was. People liking it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a.

[David Ehrlich]

When did they.

[Griffin Newman]

It ended, I guess in 90 99.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

So yeah. They have the idea of Eva Eve.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He brings Reard in.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. Like she's like got this idea, this sort of sleek, futuristic. No robot. This sort of the opposite.

[Ben Hosley]

What if he falls in love with an ipod?

[David Ehrlich]

First version wasn't set on Earth.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, interesting.

[David Ehrlich]

It was just a Trash planet. Like, we don't know what Steve Jobs is the one. Like, I think you should set it on Earth. Like, I think you should have a little bit more of a commentary here.

[Griffin Newman]

I thought there was a thing he said in the Criterion Disc where he was like, when I made this movie, I did not want to comment on or engage with humanity at all. When I was, like, relatable developing it, I was like, the whole appeal to me is like, isolated robot, outer space, remove ourselves, distance ourselves from this. And people kept kind of noting it in a way that brought it back to needing some human connection to make sense of the movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Now, is he identifiably in New York City, or is Wally just been inspired by the architecture of New York somewhere deep in his coding to build a New York City out of cube trash?

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's the latter.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay, so it takes him a long time to get the second half right. Blah, blah, blah. The iPhone comes out in 2006. He was one of the first people to get one because Steven Jobs gave him one. And through playing around with the iPhone, the sort of addictive quality of like a smartphone, he comes up with the kind of, like, humans addicted to screens, living in the Axiom, like, thing.

[Griffin Newman]

He said also, like, when I first got one and started playing around with it, I was like, I have not felt this since cigarettes.

[Ben Hosley]

It's crazy because I feel like so much of what was compelling about the iPhone back in 2007 was, like the social cachet, because there was very little to do on it.

[David Ehrlich]

There was less to do, but we made do with whatever. Lame. I didn't get an iPhone till 2012. I had a BlackBerry.

[Griffin Newman]

You were a BlackBerry guy?

[David Ehrlich]

I was a BlackBerry guy, for sure.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

I mean, it was a work thing. Like.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it was a work thing. What do you mean, yeah?

[David Ehrlich]

Well, like, my job gave me one. I was journalist.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, okay.

[David Ehrlich]

A little BlackBerry. Loki.

[Griffin Newman]

Do, do, do, do, do.

[David Ehrlich]

Stanton says, I'm not making a comment on obesity. I'm trying to just make everyone a big baby. Like, the idea of the. Of the humans on the Axiom is not that they ate too much. It's that they have turned into babies.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, okay, so let me. Let me get into another thing here because. Because there's a thing we. We sort of skipped over originally. He doesn't want it to be Earth. And then there was an extended era. They only make this change, like, I think about two years before the movie comes out. It was supposed to be a ship of, like, green gelatinous blobs who didn't speak English. There were two different versions of it. I don't know which one came first, but at one point it was truly like they are aliens. They have sent.

[David Ehrlich]

They were gel people who spoke a language like that was like Monty Python sort of IKEA speak or whatever, which

[Ben Hosley]

was teeing up a Planet of the Apes. And the turns out that near the

[David Ehrlich]

end of the film it would reveal that they were once human.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. So I like Planet of the Apes style.

[Griffin Newman]

He talks about like there was a version where it was like they were truly, truly impartial aliens. The implication is that humans died off and now these aliens have abducted these robots and trying to study, you know, extinct cultures. Right. And that they have a bunch of robots and the movie was like a robot Spartacus, as they put it, where the robots are second class citizens under the aliens and Wally becomes like a figure of the uprising.

[David Sims]

But would it be that they're evolved?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, well, so then there was a different version. I don't know which one came first where it was. The blobs are the devolved versions of humans. That is the twist that we've devolved that much and that they don't even remember or understand that they're connected to that lineage. And that's what Wally helps connect them with. And they got very far along in that. There are like animation models that were built and they had written the whole sort of version of that and done the story reels of it and they were just like it. The lift became so hard and heavy to get audiences to connect with the blobs who aren't speaking. It is this thing for me where I'm like, I accept and I buy they just tried and couldn't pull it off. But the second I heard that, I was like, Jesus Christ. If they had made that work, it would have been astonished.

[Ben Hosley]

Listen, I say this as someone who has never found a blob that I haven't been able to connect with. We love blobbies, sure too especially Blobby the og. But best of Blobby, one of the most important pieces of media that Griffin introduced me to. But I think it's just thematically it doesn't really square because it you implicitly, there's no reason to assume that being blob is worse than being human.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. They need to be babies. I like it's the axiom stuff is what I like more.

[Ben Hosley]

These to be helpless. They need to like learned helplessness.

[Griffin Newman]

But the iteration was like, right. Audiences aren't Connecting to this. Maybe we have them talk. It's hard for the audiences connect to the blobs to make them feel like distinct, different characters. There was an era where it was like aristocracy. There was like a king and a queen and a prince.

[Ben Hosley]

There was a royal wedding.

[Griffin Newman]

Modern structures. And then they're sort of like, let's put a nose on the blob. What if they're not green, but they're like flesh colored, you know? And then it slowly evolved into the baby thing. And in doing the kind of like classic Pixar research, he spoke to a scientist who said, like, if multiple generations of humanity were to live in space, they wouldn't just have their muscles atrophy. Their. Their actual physical composition would change.

[Ben Hosley]

You see the video of the astronaut. I mean, we're recording this in the middle of April, but people just came back from the moon or going around the moon and they had the video of the astronaut who hadn't walked on Earth in 10 days, just 10 days. And she could not pull herself along the parallel bars. She needs to be supported by freedom, right?

[Griffin Newman]

So it's like if you're the like seventh generation born into space, you don't need like muscles anymore. You don't need. Your bones are just sort of like shrunk within your body. They're big babies.

[Ben Hosley]

Fortunately, technology has not had any sort of negative effect along those lines on us. No, this movie has turned out to be not prophetic at all.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the problem with this movie is it got it all wrong. We solved everything.

[David Ehrlich]

They also couldn't figure out the ending or for a while it was always going to be like, he has to give her his heart battery. There was a sacrifice. They never liked it. Finally they had more. The idea of he loses his memory is the kind of crisis at the end.

[Griffin Newman]

Need to interject with this because it's another just kind of fascinating Stanton story cracking moment. Like the Finding Nemo barracuda thing. And all of this is important setup to John Carter where he breaks his own story rules in several ways I've never been able to understand. You know, they watched a lot of silent comedies and they watched a lot of Chaplin and Lloyd and Buster Keaton especially because I would argue that Wally is most closely aligned with the Buster Keaton character types.

[Ben Hosley]

Even if the movie, I think, leans more towards modern. Not modern. Well, there is a lot of modern times in it, but also City Lights.

[Griffin Newman]

It's like a Chaplin movie with a Buster Keaton character. And he said the thing we kept trying to Figure out what Wally's emotional arc was and trying to force one and what's his growth and how does he change? And then we started looking at those movies, and it's like, very often Buster Keaton is an unchanging figure in the center of things, and what he does is subtly affect everyone else around him.

[David Ehrlich]

Sure.

[Ben Hosley]

What is Stone Face but of metal?

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. And so he kept being like, well, Wally has to, like, become empowered by the end of the movie. He has to save Eve. He has to become the dominant one. It is one of the latest major changes in a Pixar film, because the last 20 minutes were basically completely animated. And they did a test screening where they hadn't done final lighting passes and whatever, and it wasn't even a note he got back, but he watched it with the audience, and I think it's on the disc.

[Ben Hosley]

You can see there's one guy in the mall in Arizona who was like, yeah, what if. What if?

[Griffin Newman]

While he falls asleep, what if. Eva was a girl boss, she had to save him. But there's a. There's a clip of him going to the Pixar team and being like, guys, I'm so sorry. I'm about to ask you to do an insane amount of work. We have to redo the entire last 20 minutes, and usually it never gets that far.

[Ben Hosley]

You.

[Griffin Newman]

You identify those issues at a storyboard phase. But it was completed physical animation. There are scenes in the trailers from that version of the movie you can see that aren't in the final film, which, like, shit, never gets cut that finished. But, yeah, he was like, it has to be inverted. It has to be that his worldview has actually affected her enough that she needs to pick up his mission and carry it out. But you can see the, like, a lot of the extended deleted footage of Eva's, like, batteries been fried, and Wally has to save her, and he's flying around with her at the end.

[David Ehrlich]

Stanton, very shy about any kind of, like, topical discussions. Not interested in talking about global warming. Like, sort of dismisses a lot of the environmental stuff because he's like, I don't have a political ban. The last thing I want to do is preach. Like, all this just sort of made sense for my story. Asked about consumerism, he's like, yes, there's lots of things disconnecting us from each other and that are consumerist, but the reason I made them look like big babies, because it was like a NASA guy told me, you know, that's what they would look like, blah, blah, you know, like, he, he's like, the last thing I'm trying to do is make a message movie. Like, he's very. Whether or not you want to take this away from him, he's sort of seemingly uninterested in addressing that.

[David Sims]

Wait, that's so weird, though.

[David Ehrlich]

I agree.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, can I.

[David Ehrlich]

That's not my job.

[Griffin Newman]

May I give my read on that for a second?

[David Ehrlich]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Because this Criterion disc came out in 2022. Right. And that is this framework of now here is an adult cineast physical media package with curated supplemental material to like frame this within an intellectual conversation. And the new material on the Criterion disk is so much more pointed and transparent. There was a lot of, I have to imagine Disney inheriting this movie. And I think it's what's fascinating about watching this movie now where like the greatest concern was a kind of like an anti intellectualism and an apathy. That's what culture is falling into. And that anything in this movie that could have been seen as elitist or critical of an American apathy would have become like a fucking talking point.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. Because apathy would become Disney's lifeblood over the last 10 years or so in the live action remake era.

[Griffin Newman]

It does feel like there was a little bit of at the time, you cannot fucking politicize this movie. Right?

[David Ehrlich]

I think so. I mean, a lot of these interviews are also from like Christianity today in like 20.

[Ben Hosley]

That's what the outlet I was working for when I spoke to him in 2022. I talked to him not for Christianity Day for around the time the Blu Ray came out. And he was very receptive to talking about the sort of political valences of the film.

[David Ehrlich]

The more recent interviews, it seems like he will be like, I mean, of course I do get a lot of boxes from Amazon and wonder.

[Griffin Newman]

He said that was one of the main activating things was like he said that in 2020.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. He didn't say it at the time like he, you know, l softened up a little.

[Griffin Newman]

I do buy that he wasn't like trying to grind axes with this movie. And I think you hear him talk about organically how the story locks into place. But also it was coming out of personal observations. Wow, I got a smartphone, I'm addicted to this. I I now there's a website that sells everything. My house is filled with boxes.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. I mean, my sense talking to him was that all those things are true. But I do feel like the sociopolitical commentary sprang out of what you were talking about earlier, which is this like deep rooted love for the movies, the early movies in particular, and the movies that were formative for him, where he really sort of sprang to life, which was very convenient for my purposes, was talking about the movie as a expression of the joys of parenting, as the act of, you know, we were talking about a bridge earlier, sort of like the act of taking something from one generation, showing it to another. Robots acting like humans to teach humans how to stop acting like robots. The transference of going from consuming everything, as Wally's done for hundreds of years, to displaying that, to showing that to someone else, which is a completely revelatory and transformational experience for him.

[David Ehrlich]

Elevate your gaming performance. With Alienware days of deals happening now and bringing you tremendous savings on the gear you need to game, you can buy any Alienware PC and get 50% off on the AW2725QF gaming monitor. Final price 249. Take your gameplay to the next level with the area 51 desktop Alienware Aurora 16 laptop and the Alienware 15. These gaming laptops feature Intel Core Ultra processors to deliver serious speed, fluid graphics, and total reliability. Whether you play competitively or just want the best visuals, these systems give you the advantage. You can also find great offers on displays, keyboards and mice to help complete your setup. Do not miss this chance to upgrade your gaming experience for less. Head over to alienware.com deals today and claim your gear before these Offers end on June 28th. Upgrade your [e-mail] deals. WALLY so in the screenplay, obviously, I guess you guys probably only know this, but I'll tell you anyway. Like, the dialogue is written even if the characters don't speak. So he would say, like, in brackets, like, here's what Wally's trying to say. And then obviously later they put in, you know, all their little noises. Ben Burt, the great Ben Burt, the legend Ben Burt.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben Burt is Ben Hosley, the man who, like, invented the entire Star wars soundscape, among many other things, but one of Lucas's closest collaborators. And, you know, just these things we take for granted of just like droid languages and lightsabers and the sounds of ships.

[David Sims]

He created that probably with a moog like analog synthesizer.

[Griffin Newman]

There's another great thing on, on one of the Blu Ray releases that's a breakdown of, like, how many people at Pixar have to touch one single shot of a movie. Like, how many different departments work on it. And they cut to Ben Burt explaining what his contribution is. And he was like, I was trying to find the right sound for this movie for this shot. And then I remembered that in around 1997, I'd gone and done some recordings of Niagara Falls. And it's very indicative of how Ben Burt works, which is he just kind of fucking collects sounds, right?

[David Ehrlich]

Always collecting sounds, right.

[Griffin Newman]

So there are things that he would sort of just like construct, but more often he just was constantly building a sound library and then being like, oh, you know what? Be interesting. What if the sound of this ship is this plus this.

[Ben Hosley]

What if he was collecting sounds one night and collected the sound of a murder?

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, this is the question. And David, did he invent.

[Ben Hosley]

Did he invent robot bleeps and bloops being cute? Because we had bleeps and bloops. We had Forbidden Planet, where, let me

[Griffin Newman]

tell you, I would agree with you that no, but he made them cute. Bleep itself, I think was not cute until R2D2.

[David Ehrlich]

Right, right. I don't know. Yes, I think so. I would love to look at a list of like history's robots, like, you know, who was there because, like, Robbie's not that cute.

[David Sims]

Look up best bleep bloops.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay, so during, while they're preparing this, Andrew Stanton keeps saying, like, I need this to be like R2D2. And finally, Jim Morris, who is the former president of ILM who now works at Pixar, says, do you want to just get Ben Burtt, like the guy who did R2D2, which is basically the

[Griffin Newman]

equivalent of like casting Tom Cruise in your movie? It's like, this is your basically, not only does he literally end up being the model for the voice of Wally, but it's like this is the guy who's going to figure out whether or not your entire movie works if he can make these compelling and distinct.

[David Ehrlich]

Now, Ben Burtt, as he puts it, had just finished what he considered a basically 30 year tour of duty making Star wars movies and was not that enthused about robots.

[Griffin Newman]

He was coming right off of Revenge of the Sith.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, he'd just been working on the prequels for so long and was like, I just don't want to do any more robots. But that kind of cap romance buster

[Griffin Newman]

keep interesting hero thing.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, that's an interesting challenge. And you know, the idea also of like, they're going. It's just they're mostly communicating with each other. So bridging the sort of robot communication gaps, right, like, which is sort of like the R2 3PO. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he likes that.

[Griffin Newman]

But you're removing the.

[David Ehrlich]

The humans going like what, you know,

[Griffin Newman]

well, and also, like, they come in, you know, C3PO is human cyborg relations. His job is to fudgeing, translate things. And it's like, what if you're not translating it? And how do you still make it read to the audience what a crazy

[David Ehrlich]

guy that guy is? Then Burt, C3PO. But, yeah, sure, Ben Burt.

[Ben Hosley]

There's a guy who could use a crush. All right.

[David Ehrlich]

I don't think. I think that would just make him anxious.

[Griffin Newman]

It's kind of wild. Nine movies. C3PO never even, like, carry on.

[David Ehrlich]

Finish your thought.

[Griffin Newman]

They're even like,

[Ben Hosley]

as opposed to everyone else and feels left and right.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, R2 could get it. R2 can get it. And I think he is getting. I think sometimes he's rolling off to the side, and you're like, where did R2 go? And you're like, he's. He's gone. He's hitting.

[David Ehrlich]

So, you know, they. You know, the usual Ben Burt thing of like, okay, now I've got this challenge of, like, creating character voices, all distinct. All have to sort of sound. Human sound, relatable. It's tough. He records in a little chamber, he says. Takes those recordings, runs them through his computer. He analyzes the sound and breaks them into component parts. Like, you would sort of break light through a prism to get colors, he says. And then you start refabricating, you know,

[David Sims]

putting it all back together again.

[David Ehrlich]

But you can control. You can be, like, maybe a little more of this, a little less of this. Hold vowels, stretch vocal cords in a way that you could never, you know, pitches and, you know, if sound was Silly Putty, you could stretch it and make it longer. He says, I found a way of working on wall E, where you could do that. Sounds like something I would not be good at, but it sounds very, very cool. He's very cool guy. He also just. I mean, I've only seen him in countless. Making Osprey just seems like a friendly fella.

[Griffin Newman]

I was gonna say, seems like a sweetie. Sweetie pie. Super charming.

[David Ehrlich]

He's not like, this is intense. Like, no.

[Griffin Newman]

I also. I also think some of these Lucasy guys and interviews, you're like. You're like. You are the spectrum. You seem like a nice person, but you almost, like, are a robot looking for another robot to talk to. Ben Burt, I. I think is. I. I got to meet him when we went with George Lucas to Skywalker Ranch. Cool. And he has since retired, but was there giving a tour to his friend from high school.

[David Ehrlich]

That's cool. I mean, he's pretty old at this point. He's in his late 70s.

[Ben Hosley]

I assume you must have talked at length on this podcast about the trip you just mentioned, but I have no memory.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe not about it much, but it was pretty very casual.

[Ben Hosley]

George Lucas took me to his house.

[Griffin Newman]

George Lucas did not take me to his house. George Lucas has not acknowledged us.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Yeah. The way you presented it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, sure. Sorry, sorry, let me clarify.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes, go ahead.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Other people within the organization, like the George Lucas talk show Darth Maul, and have always been like, I don't. I wonder if George would like it. There's always been this sort of one degree away. George does like comedy, but he's really sensitive.

[David Ehrlich]

And the extent to which he can find humor in himself and his work, yes, it seems to me it's more than it was, but I'm not detecting a ton of it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's more than it was, but also, like, every year at, like, Comic Con, they would do a panel that was like, Lucasfilm's favorite fan films and parodies. Like, he's always embraced that shit. And Connor, Connor Ralliff always tells the story about, like, the first time Star wars was on the COVID of mad. They. They were sent, like, a cease and desist. And George Lucas, they. Mad responded to George Lucas's lawyer saying, like, really? Because this is a letter we got from George Lucas last week. And it was George saying, like, I'm so flat to be on the COVID of mad. Can I please buy the original art? But we walked into, like, the Skywalker Ranch library, and the librarian looked at Connor and went, was wondering if you were ever going to show your face here. It feels like some people then watch the show.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Fascinating.

[Ben Hosley]

I have to say, some of the only joy I've known in the last few weeks was watching Jared Harris on the George Lucas talk show where he was just the first half of it. It's like, what decisions have I made in my life that led me to this moment?

[Griffin Newman]

That's the joy of doing the show, is watching people go through that and then by the end of it being like, I'm all in on this.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But it was so cool to watch. Basically, we were being given a tour adjacent to Ben Burt giving a tour. And it was at a. On a day where there weren't a

[Ben Hosley]

lot of people, like, you could walk 15ft behind him and just hear echoes of what was set up front and

[Griffin Newman]

watch him talk about it and whatever. He's a lovely guy.

[David Ehrlich]

So Sigourney Weaver obviously is involved with

[Griffin Newman]

this movie, as he put it to Sigourney Weaver, you get to play mother now, Right?

[David Ehrlich]

What if your mother, she likes that idea?

[David Sims]

She does it.

[David Ehrlich]

Sigourney Weaver, I feel like, also likes to do stuff.

[Ben Hosley]

It does feel like a great way of incepting your kids with eventually watching Alien when they're seven. It also is on the timeline.

[Griffin Newman]

It also speaks to the tough sell of this movie where I remember, like, Sigourney Weaver doing like, the Today show and Good Morning in America and whatever for this movie, even though it's almost like an extended intro cameo because they were like, we have no stars in this film. Sigourney Weaver's the computer. The other lead actors are Ben Burt, a Pixar employee and the Mac Text to Speech program.

[Ben Hosley]

And two men who have been accused of being sex pests in different. Different varieties.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes, you're right.

[Griffin Newman]

Count my head. Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

Who was the other two?

[Griffin Newman]

Pixar.

[Ben Hosley]

Jeff Garland has gotten Garland and Fred Willard jacked it in the. Listen, I didn't say he jacked it

[David Ehrlich]

in the place you're supposed to jack it.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

He was appreciating the art. He was engaging with it in the manner in which it was intended.

[David Ehrlich]

It was in a porn theater.

[Griffin Newman]

You take that back.

[Ben Hosley]

I didn't say sex pest in the derogatory way. You did.

[David Ehrlich]

Well, pest is a derogatory word. You can't just being like, I'm being a pest. And everyone's like, oh, yeah, you're my favorite pest.

[Ben Hosley]

My life.

[Griffin Newman]

I would call him a sex fan. He's an appreciator of sex.

[Ben Hosley]

Sex. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But, yeah, no, it's right. Willard Garland, John ratzenberger, the big three of the 2000 box office.

[David Ehrlich]

So, Wally, you know, there is the.

[Griffin Newman]

Right there, Wally.

[David Ehrlich]

Well, right there is the. I think at the time for Pixar, somewhat revolutionary thing of, like, we will have humans.

[Griffin Newman]

It's hardly in the movie. The only time they've done that.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. Like, they've never done anything like that since. Really? No.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

So you got. Willard, obviously, is like. It's a good joke. I mean, it's sort of like we will turn into cg. Like, yeah, we were once humans and we turned into cg.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. This is also the movie where in Stan talks about that this was kind of his main project of, like, if we're putting humans in it, then we're presenting this not as a form of photorealism, but we have to sell a sense of verisimilitude. And so the technology has finally gotten To a point. And this is still an era of Pixar, where almost every movie is built around a new technical challenge. Can we solve right? There are actual basic building blocks of this medium working that still have not been cracked yet. And his big pet project on this one was can we truly make the virtual camera feel real? Unlike in 2D animation, where you are the animator, also basically the cinematographer to a degree, and that you are composing your shot, but you're very limited in the kind of camera movements or even approximations of camera movements you can do. CGI inherently has, like, a virtual camera built within it. You know, this is a movie where it's like, we want to make the camera feel real. We want to own the imperfections and the struggles of what a camera.

[Ben Hosley]

Did a lot of analog 70 millimeter tests to try and capture that kind of, you know, the lighting, the texture,

[Griffin Newman]

and they're like, where's the barrel distortion? You know, where are the imperfections? They got both Roger Deakins and Dennis Mirren to be consultants on this movie. And he was basically, like, I explained to them all these things that have driven, like, Russian lens makers crazy for decades, that they've never been able to solve the weird quirks of just, like, human limitations that then Pixar is trying to replicate, rather than computer, which is always trying to perfect everything and a thing that happens.

[Ben Hosley]

Computer kind of bad guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Computer kind of bad guy in this movie. But, like, especially in the sort of Levi and Rose montage, there's a lot of, like, you feel the camera operator and they talked about this of like, especially the scene where Wally triggers all the shopping carts and they come, like, rolling after him against the wall. Like, the camera is struggling to catch up with Wally and keep him in the frame. There's like an over correction of the camera. That's basically the stuff they started with in the bloopers. Yeah, like the Toy Story, Bugs, life, monsters and bloopers have that kind of like, isn't it funny to acknowledge that someone needs to, like, refocus? I know.

[David Ehrlich]

I don't care for those.

[Griffin Newman]

The bloopers are funny, David. I understand.

[David Ehrlich]

I don't care for them.

[Griffin Newman]

You don't care for them at all?

[David Ehrlich]

No, I liked them when I was a kid.

[Ben Hosley]

It's funny that animation would have mistakes because you'd think they would just erase it along the way.

[Griffin Newman]

We also, we didn't call this out in Finding Nemo, but that was one of Stanton's moves also, where he was like, these movies can't start to feel like they're fitting into a pattern and a formula.

[David Ehrlich]

100%. Very smart.

[Griffin Newman]

We gotta break the blooper thing because, like, we're about to start repeating ourselves.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, yeah. I don't like the blooper thing.

[Ben Hosley]

And this movie does not suffer from Pixar boardroom story.

[David Ehrlich]

No, this is what I'm saying. He retreated from that.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, like, I mean, very clearly.

[David Ehrlich]

I mean, obviously Brave. Their best film was still to come.

[Ben Hosley]

Change your fate.

[David Ehrlich]

Do you want to change your fate?

[Griffin Newman]

Was it the wisps?

[David Ehrlich]

Now the film begins. Oh, how does Wally fit into the Pixar theory? The witch turns into Woody and then where's Wally in this?

[Griffin Newman]

Wally's.

[David Ehrlich]

Is Wally pre cars? Like, will cars come after Wally?

[Griffin Newman]

I think Wally is postcards.

[David Ehrlich]

Like if Wally charts the apocalypse and then. But yeah. Is it post cars?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I think it's that. That after the cars have died was

[Ben Hosley]

not originally invented to clean up. What's his name? McQueen. Lightning McQueen.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Wally is postcards. Of course. Guess what's post Wally in the Pixar timeline theory? Onward. Of course, set in the 4000s.

[Griffin Newman]

You honestly. Honestly, you.

[David Sims]

I mean, I don't know what you're talking about. Is it worth diving into?

[David Ehrlich]

No, no, no, no. We'll move on.

[Griffin Newman]

It's worth divorce saying what it is and why we're not giving it any validity.

[David Sims]

It's not a real.

[Griffin Newman]

The Pixar movies all have these Easter eggs, right? Where it's like the. The Pizza Planet truck shows up in every movie. There are things like that. And most of the Pixar movies include a preview of the next film. So we called out in the Finding Nemo episode in the waiting room, the Dentist. A kid's reading an Incredibles comic. They would seed kind of the next movie in a little way. Right at the end of Monsters Inc. Boo has like a Nemo toy. There's always that kind of shit. And a very annoying corner of the Internet started taking it literally and being like, oh, that means they exist in the same universe. What is the timeline that justifies all these things happening? And with every added Pixar film, it becomes sweatier and sweatier. But you can watch like hour long YouTube essays where it's like, so, I

[Ben Hosley]

mean, I believe there was like a PowerPoint.

[Griffin Newman]

Die cars take over, kick this off. Then when the cars kill themselves, Wally cleans up our garbage.

[Ben Hosley]

Wally starts with a real shot across the bow in that you like, immediately. It's just out there, you know, and it is so immediately removed from Pixar tonality up until the point I thought

[Griffin Newman]

about our Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon episode where you said, has any movie more quickly announced itself as a masterpiece? Well, with the opening strings, Crouching Tiger still has it.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. I don't know if the quality is implicit to what Ollie's doing, because Crouching Tiger, he's dragging.

[David Ehrlich]

It begins with boom. And you're like.

[Ben Hosley]

But in context, this is telling you, you know, circa 2008, and you're sitting there in the theater, this is not your daddy's Pixar movie.

[Griffin Newman]

No. You're also. There's no soft ease in. You know, most of the Pixar movies, like, have, like, a cold open before you go to an opening credit sequence, and then they start to really minimize the opening credit sequence. This is like Disney logo, Pixar logo. The short before this was Presto, which is pretty good in theaters.

[David Ehrlich]

Pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

You love Presto.

[David Ehrlich]

I think that's the best one they ever did.

[Griffin Newman]

She think that's the best one they ever did.

[David Ehrlich]

Apart from, of course, my beloved Red Stream, where the bicycle. Yeah, what's your favorite?

[Ben Hosley]

And Lava.

[David Ehrlich]

Lava.

[Griffin Newman]

Lava.

[David Ehrlich]

Actually should have gotten Pixar shut down. You know what I mean? Like, everyone's like, we appreciate everything. And they release Lava, and the government immediately is like, I'm sorry, you're done.

[Ben Hosley]

I came home one day and found my daughter watching Lava. And it was like.

[David Ehrlich]

Like you threw the TV out the

[Ben Hosley]

window seeing your kid watching the Ring tape, I was just like, no.

[David Ehrlich]

What's your favorite of the shorts? I think Presto is so Goddamn.

[Griffin Newman]

I love Presto. But I'm like, the top is interesting.

[David Ehrlich]

What's the top?

[Griffin Newman]

I gotta think on this.

[David Ehrlich]

It's better not be fucking Lava. Well, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, it better not be fucking. What?

[David Ehrlich]

I was about to say a funny one. Bounden. But I do enjoy Bounden.

[Griffin Newman]

Lovely.

[David Ehrlich]

He's Bounden. Yeah, I like. Yeah, yeah. I like Lava the most.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean.

[David Ehrlich]

Sorry, sorry. Presto.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry. Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

I hate Lava's the bow. I love Bao, and I've seen Bao so many times because my daughter really loved Bao for a long time.

[Ben Hosley]

They sent me the little plastic prop bow when that came out. Been living in my freezer for, like, eight years now.

[David Ehrlich]

What's in your freezer?

[Ben Hosley]

Because I. It's a frozen battle. I don't know. I put it up there. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm like, is Jerry's game my favorite? Is that Jerry's game?

[David Ehrlich]

Very good.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Jerry's game. Very good. He's joining the MCU soon. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Can you name which ones Won the Oscar.

[David Ehrlich]

Did Jerry's game win?

[Griffin Newman]

Jerry's game one.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay. Oh, so, all right. Luxo Jr won.

[Griffin Newman]

Incorrect. Luxo Jr was nominated rude tin toy one. Tin toy one. That's the first win.

[David Ehrlich]

Did Nick. Nick win?

[Griffin Newman]

Knickknack sadly lost. Two Stack two. Bodacious, right?

[David Ehrlich]

Jerry's Game one.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. That was the second okay.

[David Ehrlich]

For the Birds one. I remember that. That was in that era where it was kind of like, are they just gonna win every single time they do one?

[Griffin Newman]

Because it was two consecutive four.

[David Ehrlich]

Bounding. Got its ass kicked.

[Griffin Newman]

Bound and did get its ass kicked. Then it doesn't win. They don't win again for a while.

[David Ehrlich]

Did Day and Night win?

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Ehrlich]

La Luna.

[Griffin Newman]

No. My daughter also loves those nominated. Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

La Nuna is. Is a Luca prequel.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

You know, it's got, like, Luca style.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

Lava didn't win, did it?

[Griffin Newman]

No. Thank God. Lava not even.

[David Ehrlich]

Did Piper win?

[Griffin Newman]

Piper 1.

[David Ehrlich]

Piper's good. Piper looks amazing.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

Piper's just looks incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but there's not a win between 2020.

[David Ehrlich]

And then bow one.

[Griffin Newman]

And then bow one. Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Bow so good. She eat the bow.

[Griffin Newman]

She eat the bow. Do you remember when they announced bow and we were all like, this sucks. I don't want to watch a food baby. And then everyone comes out of Bow crying.

[David Ehrlich]

Bow fucking rocks. And of course, turning red. Rocks.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Turning red is just the best.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

God. Turning right. So funny now. I'm just thinking about it with all their faces go funny anime style. It's so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

I just think the immediate quick cuts, establishing shots of space. Straight it with hello Dolly lyrics. The weird juxtaposition of like, what is the tone of this movie?

[David Ehrlich]

The hello Dolly of it is very funny in that that movie is so flawed.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, this is why. So beautiful. Greatest leg.

[David Ehrlich]

Exactly. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Sans also said that he's like, I find it funny that Wally has bad taste.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, it's like I always imagine he's

[David Ehrlich]

a bit of a cheese ball.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Listen, Wally. Wally was not exactly, you know, had a Blockbuster video at his disposal, guys.

[David Ehrlich]

He just wants to hold hands.

[Ben Hosley]

He does. But I always do imagine, like, what if Wally had found like, a VHS of Citizen Kane or something and he

[Griffin Newman]

just threw it out.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. I think Citizen Kane's so fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[Ben Hosley]

What's obviously not as funny, but what's

[David Ehrlich]

the gag where he throws out the good.

[Ben Hosley]

The ring. He picks up over the ring and he keeps throws at the ring.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I love it.

[Griffin Newman]

But I. I think that's part of also, like, it Feels reflective of, like. You're lucky, Erlich, that your son hyper fixated on Wally, and that was the movie that had to play 500 times in your home.

[Ben Hosley]

There have been other much worse hyper fixations in its way.

[Griffin Newman]

Exactly. You're like, he's like a child.

[Ben Hosley]

I stage the Meltdown.

[Griffin Newman]

For some reason, he's locked in on

[David Ehrlich]

Meltdown's tough, tough movie.

[Ben Hosley]

So step up from the first Ice Age.

[David Ehrlich]

No, it's not.

[Ben Hosley]

Step down from beating yourself in the face with a hammer.

[Griffin Newman]

One time I went over to your place and your son was insistent that we all watch Ice Age the Meltdown and got really angry when anyone else was talking.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, yeah, yeah. He loves to do that. Yeah. He's. This is part of why we had such a blow up at the Alamo Drafthouse recently.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, yes.

[David Ehrlich]

What was the blow up?

[Ben Hosley]

We about it online.

[Griffin Newman]

You didn't read Ehrlich's Drafthouse piece.

[David Ehrlich]

Oh, I did. Oh. Oh, yes. Right. But that was not entirely his fault.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, there was problems, but. No. ASA is. Is, you know, very serious about taking in his. His Ice Age does not like people talking over it. Everyone has to.

[David Ehrlich]

I really don't like going. I've been to Drafthouse twice with my daughter, and I don't like it as much as the night off.

[Ben Hosley]

Please do not even get me. Obviously, Drafthouse is right, but Ice Age boiling points.

[Griffin Newman]

The Nighthawk has been better. Drafthouse is now. I. I agree with you. The worst place to see a movie.

[David Sims]

They.

[David Ehrlich]

But so easy to fix. Like, it's just like it. You have the infrastructure. We can fix this. Roll it back.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. We all told you not to do this, and now it's not going well.

[David Ehrlich]

I can't tell.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm holding out hope for common sense to prevail, but I also think that they are so deep in it and are so invested in transitioning their stupid technology, firing lots of people and reducing their hours and having no more seasonal workers.

[Griffin Newman]

That was their whole thing, too, was. They were like, we're rolling this out as a test program to see if it works.

[David Ehrlich]

Test.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, the feedback was terrible. And they're like, great, we're gonna go ahead and force it on everyone. And it was like, this was your plan all along. You. You didn't care how anyone felt this.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, of course. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Some real B L. It is some

[Ben Hosley]

real B L shit. But I was trying to think of the other movies that I've had to endure this many times. He's now really into Big City Greens, which is Not a movie at all. Yeah, it's a show that I had not heard of until he.

[David Ehrlich]

You mentioned this to me. I've never heard of it.

[Ben Hosley]

It turns out that like roughly 60 of the guests who have ever appeared on Blank Check have done voice cameos on Big Centuries.

[Griffin Newman]

Not one Griffin Newman, not one host, no, zero.

[Ben Hosley]

Hostley's been on it. Yeah, he did an arc, He's a regular. But yeah, that's, that's his latest thing. I'm still trying to figure out what it is. Hi, Ben, My name is David Ehrlich. You might remember me from such Blank Check episodes as Wally. So I figured that I would send you a quick voicemail because something has really been troubling me since we recorded our Wall E episode a couple of months ago. You know, any number of things that I've said on Blank Check over the years have, have plagued me, but. But nothing has really kept me up at night quite like how callously I dismissed the children's television show Big City Greens. I think at the time I was miffed that my 6 year old son Asa was forsaking the infinite riches of children's cinema in favor of a streaming television show during his limited after school television time. But it turns out that Big City Greens is a fucking masterpiece. It's basically the Simpsons for eight year olds or, or younger. I think it ages a little bit. Aged up for my son, but he seems to rock with it anyway. I mean, it's actually a gateway drug to the Simpsons that I came home one day to find my son watching completely unprompted. Didn't even know he's aware that the Simpsons existed. Marge versus the Monorail. Which was a really profound moment for me. Anyway, in summation, Wally, good. Big City Greens, very good. Chip Whistler, evil. That's what I got. Thank you. Love you.

[David Sims]

Bye.

[Griffin Newman]

Here's a question for you. How long had it been, do you think, since Asa had seen the movie last? After watching it hundreds of times, there's been a bit of a gap when

[Ben Hosley]

he discovered all the movies until last. Before last night, when I had to sort of because he's so resistant to anything that is no longer his choice. Anything that he thinks is his sister's idea or preference is not gonna fly. So I actually thinking that he would be just sort of enraptured by flashing lights as he's prone to do, I had my beautiful wife Mo turn on Wally as I was bringing the kids up the stairs.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

So that when you walk in, it would just be there and sure enough, you know, slack jaw, you know, like, he's the thing from Batman Forever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Just fudgeing. Watching Wally.

[Griffin Newman]

It did immediately suck him in.

[Ben Hosley]

It did. And they ended up watching the whole thing. But it had been. It had been probably three years.

[Griffin Newman]

And your daughter had never seen it before.

[Ben Hosley]

Never seen it before. Immediately, immediately fell in love with Wally, a la Wally. Falling in love with Eve. However, it came from a place of profound concern. I think my. My daughter, unlike my. I hesitate to call him a sociopath on a podcast that will outlive me, but the love of my life, Asa. But he's not quite the natural empath that my. That my daughter is. But, like, every three seconds would just be like, wally. No. Is he okay? Wally. Wally. My daughter is constantly in peril.

[David Ehrlich]

My daughter would get so anxious about when the rocket lands because that is, I guess in the first act, pretty much the only moment of real peril

[Griffin Newman]

when he's chasing the red dot.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. And then like. And because she would just, you know, and she had to always be reassured, I was like, he's fine.

[Griffin Newman]

Also, if it does shoot Wally several times.

[David Ehrlich]

She does. But like, that's played more for laughs, I guess. Like, you never really feel that threat. And then the later existential threat if he loses his personality. Yeah. I think didn't quite land with my, like three year old daughter.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

She didn't really get the peril there.

[Ben Hosley]

Uncle Griffin did buy a. I think a Wally and an Eva. Or maybe I bought the Wally and you bought the.

[Griffin Newman]

I think you bought the Wally. They're still making new wallies and they haven't made a good Eva in a while. And I bought vintage Eva.

[Ben Hosley]

Pretty good.

[Griffin Newman]

It's. No, it's.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, it doesn't fly, but none of them do.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's. Please. Trust me. I did the work to get the best one I could. But it was vintage. Like, I don't think they've produced a compatible.

[Ben Hosley]

It does have a cannon, like 15 years.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Which has blown several holes in my apartment walls.

[David Ehrlich]

Is there an Eva Funko Pop? Yeah, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Funko Pop. Yes, yes.

[Ben Hosley]

But.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Her name is technically Eve.

[David Ehrlich]

Her name is Eve. It's just that Wally calls Eva and she says Wally and can we just say that she's hot or should I just. Should I not do that? Like, I walked out of the movie with 2T. I'm at the time being like. Well, I really liked that. It wasn't quite as transcendent as I was hoping at the time.

[Ben Hosley]

I remember, however, I am rock.

[David Ehrlich]

But then my second is bossy robot.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, sure.

[Ben Hosley]

She is a bossy round face.

[David Ehrlich]

She is a boss.

[Ben Hosley]

Could not be rounder.

[David Ehrlich]

Correct. And she could not be bossier.

[Griffin Newman]

She's an upside down egg.

[David Ehrlich]

All she does is go, wally.

[Griffin Newman]

He's like, you know what moment I really love?

[David Ehrlich]

Please.

[Griffin Newman]

After she kisses him and electrocutes his face. She does in space. And he's like frozen, floating away. She goes, wally. For the first time. She's like, kind of like, come on, you old silly goose.

[Ben Hosley]

I know that my sexual power is totally fried. Operating system.

[Griffin Newman]

She like waves her arm over. David. Yeah, Ben and I are four eyed cool guys. And here's the thing with glasses. I don't know if you know this experience, Ben. You're living a compromised lifestyle because, ugh, it's so annoying to get rid of glasses and get a new pair. It's so expensive. It is so time consuming. The tiny screws hurt your fingers.

[David Sims]

You gotta get a new prescription.

[David Ehrlich]

It's a whole to do.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a production, so most of us just live with it. But wait a second. Zeni Optical fixes all of that.

[David Sims]

Ben. What?

[Griffin Newman]

Yup Up Zenny is an online eyewear shop. Prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses starting at under $30. You stop asking, do I really need new glasses? And you start asking, why wouldn't I just get them? You do it in that voice. You go, why wouldn't I just get them? You're not agonizing over one pair. That has to do everything for the next two years. You get the ones for work, you get the fun ones for when you're partying. You get the pair that only matches one outfit, yet they got over 150,000 five star reviews. And if you've never bought glasses online before, Zenny has a virtual try on so you can see exactly how a frame looks on your face before you commit.

[David Sims]

I'm sorry, Griffin. They actually have 150,001 because I just left a five star review that says

[Griffin Newman]

great, that is very, very kind of you. If your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to zenni.com/podcast and use code PODCAST15 for 15% off your first order. The style sell out, so don't sit on it. That's Z-E-N-N-I.com podcast P O D C A S T promo code podcast 15. David, I'm sorry for excluding you from this act.

[David Ehrlich]

That's okay.

[Griffin Newman]

David. Yeah. If I'm being honest. What Don't Lie radically honest person.

[David Ehrlich]

In America, it's time for radical honesty.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, honesty is on the table. Sometimes it is. 1pm sure. And all I've had is coffee. Oh, no breakfast, no lunch. Just caffeine and whatever movie I'm three re watches deep on.

[David Ehrlich]

That sounds like you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I can't believe that's in the ad.

[David Ehrlich]

A little tough on the tummy.

[Griffin Newman]

Lately I've been keeping Huel around to stop myself from doing exactly that. Huell is sponsoring the podcast Tell Me of Huel. Well, here's what Huel saves me. It saves me time on recording days when we're deep in a director's filmography. This is customized ad copy.

[David Ehrlich]

Well, yeah, that's why you're right on time to every single episode.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course. The screening marathon where you forget to eat.

[David Ehrlich]

No, totally. Like, I think this is an actually relatable condition of like. Oh. Oh, no, I haven't, like, eaten in a today. Like, you know, I've had a slow morning. Right. I've got something. I've got a busy afternoon.

[Griffin Newman]

Huel has the black edition ready to drink. It is a bottle that is just a meal. Inside that bottle, I got chocolate peanut butter. It tastes good. It just tastes like a nice little milkshake.

[Ben Hosley]

Whoa.

[David Ehrlich]

It's got 35 grams of protein, 7 grams of fiber, 27 essential vitamins and minerals.

[Griffin Newman]

And minerals. You're actually impressed by that run.

[David Ehrlich]

I thought of protein.

[Griffin Newman]

That's like an ocean's eleven.

[David Ehrlich]

That's a hefty amount of protein.

[Griffin Newman]

Style lineup.

[David Ehrlich]

And then they got the powder, the Black edition powder, which is the customizable hat. That's 40 grams of protein. Same complete nutrition mixed with water or milk. No artificial sweeteners, colors, or flavors. Yes, it's gluten free with my. My, My wife is gluten free.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that's nice to know. Good for her. No, in all honesty, I often try to watch the movie right before the episode because my brain cannot retain anything. And then I rush over here and I'm like, all I've had is four cups of coffee and zero food. And it's nice to just shake a Huel down it blink and just feel vaguely like a normal person.

[David Ehrlich]

It's under $5ameal for the RTV, you know, ready to drink.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course, there's also, you know, there's a powder for when you're home. You want to control the texture whether you want to just shake that up with water or mix it into something else.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

But the rtd, you can just grab one of those bad boys when you're sprinting out the door to a record on time.

[David Sims]

No, wait, how do you spell it? H E W. No, you fool.

[David Ehrlich]

It's H U E L. Okay, here is a limited time offer. Stop running on nothing but coffee. Get Huell today with my exclusive offer of 15% off online with my code [e-mail] check. H U L.com check. New customers only. Thank you to Hu for partnering and supporting our show.

[Ben Hosley]

Wow.

[Griffin Newman]

If you're the kind of person who forgets to eat until you're staring down a six movie day, this is the fix. And a six movie day. That is impressive. And our hats are off to you. Very good.

[David Ehrlich]

All right, we start with, though, while he lives, as you said, start without there. Well, that's true, but I mean, read the first act and the silence and all that. And you know, Stanton says we were breaking rules.

[David Sims]

These.

[David Ehrlich]

This obviously was not a done thing.

[Griffin Newman]

But this is my point. You start with the blare of, like, yes, an obscure musical song. And you're like, this is not how this movie starts. And then it winds down to absolute silence.

[Ben Hosley]

But then it's like, as we get closer to earth, the pivot that they make to the first notes of the

[David Ehrlich]

score, which are very ominous score, very important.

[Ben Hosley]

That is a huge jarring moment. I think it's similarly unexpected where you're like, oh, we're going from the joy of that song to. To something is unnerving.

[Griffin Newman]

The palette of the first three minutes is already, like, throwing you totally out of whack of like, don't expect this to conform to the comforts of the usual Pixar movie. Why are they using, like, an old Hollywood song? Why is there now just kind of silence and isolation? And they film Wally from, like, such a distance and you're sort of focusing on the spaces and then watching him cross in clear frame and not even

[Ben Hosley]

clocking necessarily, that he built everything we

[Griffin Newman]

can see totally right. And then the Thomas Newman score only kicks in once we sort of zoom out and understand, oh, he built these

[Ben Hosley]

structures and he's sad and alone.

[Griffin Newman]

You watch the process of him, sans music, doing the cubing, stacking the one. The sort of pride he has in doing it. Precisely. There's a great Stanton clip on. There's a. There's a like 20 minute feature on the Criterion. Ben, to your question, you asked famously in the early days of podcasting, how. How do you direct animation? Draw faster, right? Yeah, there's a really good, like, 20

[Ben Hosley]

minutes, but also better.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Sort of like mini documentary of showing what directing animation is. And it's just kind of a compilation of reviews that Stanton's doing. He said basically that, like, as he puts it, directing animation is. You have to make a choice every three and a half minutes. He's like, I arrive every morning. My assistant gives me what they call the dance card. And it's, here's everything you need to review today. And the list is so long that basically, on average, every three and a half minutes, you have to make a definitive choice about something, whether it's approving a design thing or a sound thing or an actual shot, giving a note, you know, deciding when a thing is finally finished or what needs to be adjusted or any of that. And there's a really good clip of him in a meeting with a lot of the story team, the design team, trying to figure out, okay, how the robots going to work. And much like Finding Nemo, where he said, I really didn't want to anthropomorphize the fish, I wanted to find a way to make the fish expressive while sticking to basically the physiology of how a fish could actually move.

[Ben Hosley]

Secret what if Jewish solved the answer, Right?

[Griffin Newman]

But for Wally, he was like, I don't want them to mirror our bodies that much. I want to play with limitations.

[David Ehrlich]

I think that's fun.

[Griffin Newman]

Right?

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It's more interesting to me if their bodies can do a thing that we could never do. And so Angus McClane, who was a big part of this movie, later directs Lightyear, which re watching this, I was like, oh, yeah, the whole fucking design language of light years ripped off from this movie. It is. What if Buzz Lightyear had Wall E designs? Even all the tech, all the ships have the same kind of weird, like, rounded movie.

[Ben Hosley]

That's the origin story of the action figure.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, my God, Ehrlich. Like, it's not a movie about the action figure. It's about the real man that the action figure is based on. Because in 1995, a young boy watched a movie.

[David Sims]

I'm pretty sure he made a joke, the same joke on the Nemo episode. So I think we'll just maybe have to do it every time.

[Ben Hosley]

There's a lot of life during this series.

[Griffin Newman]

He has this great line where he's saying to Angus McClane, he's like, Can I make the argument for giving him elbows?

[David Ehrlich]

Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Like, Angus McLean's making this plea of like, it's going to make all of our lives easier if we can give him an elbow. And Stanton goes, I'd rather Give you a wrist than an elbow. And everyone in the room goes like, huh? And you watch him explain for the first time, like it's coming to him, like, what if his arms are like this? What if they're small and they're out like this? And his wrist can extend in this sort of way? And that's now coming up with a language of movement that you couldn't do with a human being, which is, I think, so much of what Stanton finds interesting in animation is like finding these midpoints between the language of live action film and the language of animation, which is like, how do you kind of shoot and cut a movie in quotes with what we understand from live action, but depict on screen things that we couldn't ever film and find the sort of midpoint between human behavior and what kind of characters are projecting?

[Ben Hosley]

And with Wall E and so many of the robot characters in this movie, it is all in the eyes, which are obviously a cheat for animation, you know, whenever they're trying to anthropomorphize something. But I think it's so resonant here because Wall E is really kept alive not so much by solar power as he is by curiosity and wonder. I mean, this is what separates him from all the other Wall E units that have been decommissioned. It's that he gets off on discovering things about the world and that has sustained him for centuries.

[Griffin Newman]

So tiny pin in this. He. The other sort of part of the lore of this movie is he was at like a baseball game and he had like cheap binoculars to watch the game from the cheap se. And he got hyper fixated on the hinge of the binoculars and how he was like, oh, if you tilt them down, they look sad.

[David Ehrlich]

It's brilliant, right? I mean, it's so clever.

[Griffin Newman]

Which is the starting point of the design of this character. Obviously the trash planet idea had existed, but that kind of reactivated the. Like, you could build an entire character where that's the only face you have and there is the subtle thing. And it's like part of the language the movie teaches you that pays off so effectively at the end when Wall E comes back is, oh, all these robots are supposed to have a straight line for their eyes.

[David Ehrlich]

That's right. When he turns personality less, he goes back to.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the Droop.

[David Ehrlich]

No, no, the Droop is when he gets good again.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right. But that's the moment where you're like, oh, my God, our guy is back.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, our guy. He is our guy.

[Griffin Newman]

They've taught you this thing where suddenly seeing The Droop conveys so much to you in this classic, like Pixar teaches you a technology that is meaningless and by the end of the movie, it can communicate a complicated thing in one movement. I think that is sort of the defining thing that this movie is about, is like, it's not about artificial intelligence in a sort of designed, we want to create artificial intelligence way. It is this fascinating, like, what creates a personality, what creates a soul? If a robot lives long enough, do, like, aberrations start to happen, which is

[Ben Hosley]

why it tracks so well into a different context of artificial intelligence, which is, as a criticism of something it couldn't anticipate necessarily, which is AI, you know, and the movie being a very obvious now, in hindsight, broadside against what would happen if we just delegate all of our thinking and ability to automated systems,

[Griffin Newman]

which this movie is basically. All the robots you see in it aren't trying to comfort you by seeming human. They are there to serve a specific function.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

This is just like, what if a robot did your fucking makeup? And that's the one that needs to look gorgeous, impersonate a social interaction, because that's part of the dynamic. But otherwise it's just like, what is the one thing this fucking robot needs to do? And it doesn't need a face and it doesn't need a personality. It's just going to serve this one job that we can, like, clean up, in some cases, literally make the robot that cleans up. All of the main robot characters in this movie are defined by a moment where you realize, oh, something has weirdly evolved in them, where they now have a personality, where they now take some specific pleasure in doing what they do. It is no longer programming. There is some joy in this that is basically like a malfunction, but in that malfunction, like, feelings are developed. So you start with, like, Wally, the sense of pride he takes in the garbage. Is that the reason that he has outlived all the other models?

[David Ehrlich]

Sure. Yeah. And probably. Right. Because, like, that's. There are all the other models burnt out, we assume dead. And you watch Wally uninterested, you know, or whatever.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

He's making architecture out of.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. He's doing art. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And as I say, that little gesture with the wrists is just like. You see the satisfaction of, like, another clean wall.

[David Sims]

But he loves to curate stuff. He's got his lunchbox.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He lives in my apartment. I get this guy. I really get this.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

I mean, I hadn't quite made that connection, but. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Kind of hit me like A ton of bricks.

[David Ehrlich]

Because, of course, like, Wally right outside, he's making towers out of bricks and, you know, all that.

[Griffin Newman]

But that's what I consider podcasting.

[David Ehrlich]

He lives in. It's a garbage truck with the kind of, like, rotating. You know, he's got the kind of the tie rack of garbage. Right? Like, you know. Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

And that was supposed to be the racks of all the other models.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. And him, he hangs his favorite pieces.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, that was one of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of ships that were just supposed to be levels of wallies all sleeping in little boxes. He's the last one we see in. Just, like, such, like, clean, quick visual storytelling of his tread start to wear out. He needs to find other dead models. You're like, this is how this one guy has survived. He's basically been Frankensteining himself from his dead brother.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, this isn't even the original Wally. At one point, he just became. Yeah. A hodgepodge of other walls.

[Griffin Newman]

But you're. You're like, right, the other guy's all burned out. Why is Wally still here? Because Wally wants to be alive. Why does he want to be alive? Because he likes doing this. It's not just that he's programmed to do this. He enjoys it. And then in his enjoyment and also the isolation of everything else around him and the mission becoming impossible, you know, unending, he starts to get obsessed with the other options.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, it dovetails with what Stanton said, which is, you know, irrational. The theme of the movie for him, that he would put on, like, a coffee cup so that everybody who was working with him could understand at every chain in the system what movie they were making is irrational. Love defeats life's programming. And so it's like, if you take that to a literal place, it's like his. His love of this activity literally overpowers, you know, the programming and the obsolescence that's coded into his programming and whatnot.

[Griffin Newman]

So I also think Stanton is a guy who's, like, constantly wrestling between instincts of cynicism and sentimentality that I relate to very hard. And I think his characters and his movies are usually about that.

[Ben Hosley]

Wait until you see if you haven't already, in the blink of an eye,

[Griffin Newman]

it will be seen.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay, we have to do. We have to.

[Ben Hosley]

Legally, the first episode you do, where no one has seen the movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Legally, we must. But. But yes. That there's always this battle within him between the. The two. I also just, like, love the idea that it's like he finds the pleasure in doing his job and stacking the garbage. And then over time he's starting to like pay attention to the garbage and curate the garbage and study the garbage.

[Ben Hosley]

Not to overplay Stanton religiosity, which I think we were talking about mostly before we started recording, but like his vested Catholicism and whatnot that there is an issue of or an element of like stewardship over the earth. And there you could easily abstract Wally looking to the heavens as, you know, waiting for a sign from God.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Waiting for Eve in fact, you know, to come down.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, indeed.

[David Ehrlich]

They indeed. Even of course thought about the.

[David Sims]

On the nose.

[David Ehrlich]

Do we call him Adam or something? But he just was like Wally is the, the sad sack name. Like I could. That's the best name.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

You know, like. And he's very, very smart of him.

[Griffin Newman]

He also said Steve Jobs's single biggest contribution was that the movie was originally called W A L E. And he's like, I don't like that name. And then.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

They were like, like Wally. And then it works.

[Ben Hosley]

Exactly what Steve Jobs said. Like the rapper.

[David Ehrlich]

I think another contribution Steve Jobs made was his money. Yeah, that's another one.

[Ben Hosley]

He threw his wallet at Andrew Stanton.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And said do whatever the fuck you want. I mean this is just like a really. It's, it's a rare moment that, that is very, very short of just them feeling so empowered and having so much money to play with that they can just do whatever the fuck they want. And they're confident that it will have to be supported by whoever ends up releasing it. But you, you get the sort of like Wall E activating the video screens, the sort of, of physical pop up ads of the by and large deterioration. This, this one company, a Walmart, Costco esque company, has taken over all of the world. Our consumerism polluted everything. We had to leave. The robots are supposed to clean things up. Except it was too late, they never fixed it and humans never came back.

[Ben Hosley]

It's interesting that Fred Willard's character, I mean maybe there is a distinction made and I'm just not remembering but he's the President of by and large. But he also seems to exert the President of the United States and possibly the world.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. But what I love is I feel like whenever you see his title in Chirons, it's like he hasn't actually become the president. It's that being the CEO of B L has maybe become more important than being the president.

[David Ehrlich]

It is, it is 100. Yes. It's just right. It's like a capitalist oligarchy. Whatever it's like what we became.

[Griffin Newman]

Does the president not matter anymore? Do they actually not exist?

[David Ehrlich]

It's not that Walmart, you know, still. Walmart's still important, but, like, by and large feels Walmart coded. I know it's obviously also Amazon or whatever, but, like. And it. That does feel of that moment.

[Griffin Newman]

I was. There's stuff in this movie that is fascinating to watch now where you're like, the culture has changed more than I thought.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Where you're like, the Walmart thing of, like, right. In 2008, we all agreed was like, is Walmart the most evil company that is, like, going to kill us? And you're like, walmart's so far down on the list now.

[Ben Hosley]

There is something Walmart almost feels.

[Griffin Newman]

Feels cute.

[Ben Hosley]

There is something quaint about this era of consumerist critique because we. Yeah, the evils that have supplanted it and you stood on its shoulders are so much more pronounced and, you know, existential.

[Griffin Newman]

But he also said, like, the environmental angle of this movie, he was like, this wasn't motivated by me feeling like the movie was a call to arms to shake people into action.

[David Ehrlich]

No. Right. Again, that just doesn't seem to be his vibe. It's not a polemical filmmaker, but also,

[Griffin Newman]

like, 17, 18 years later, I'm like, I can't believe how much fucking worse this got. And if I knew how little we were going to do to fight this issue, I maybe would have made different choices.

[Ben Hosley]

But yet at the same time, it's. It's sort of central driving energy about, you know, humans needing to sort of regain control over their own fates and not surrender to automation and. And thoughtlessness and helplessness is. Is as, you know, relevant as ever.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that's the weird thing in the movie that simultaneously feels like quaint and still prescient to me at the same time. Which is the greatest concern being apathy, right? Like, people just don't want to fucking care. They don't want to think. There's just like a complacency, which I think right now in America are one of our biggest issues, if not our single biggest issue, is that has basically been replaced with an overriding anger. There is like a rage that is fueling everything in all directions, where the sense of being this passive is a little hard to imagine. And yet we are on the scary precipice of are people gonna start opting out of having to do shit in order to have everything automated for them?

[David Ehrlich]

Sounds fine.

[Ben Hosley]

It does. But I think, you know, the movie sort of Indulges in the sort of AI proponent fantasy of, oh, like, when we have full automation, no one's gonna have to work. We're all just gonna be on permanent vacation.

[Griffin Newman]

But then you're like, what is life?

[Ben Hosley]

We've already seen that. That is not at all the reality. No.

[Griffin Newman]

And it is wild to watch it now. And it's like, there's, like, networky elements of this where you're like, oh, this doesn't even read a satire anymore. But the idea that they're, like, by the pool and everyone's just looking at their screens and not going in, they

[David Sims]

don't even know the pool's there.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. I'm just like. That felt really, like, exaggerated in 2008, when smartphones have barely existed for two years.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And now you're just like, yeah, of course. The traffic jams of no one looking where they're going because they're all just watching the screens. You're like, right, I get the. The heightening here is the hover chair. But the relationship to the screen does not feel heightened. And at the time, it felt silly. World's good.

[David Ehrlich]

World is good. Wally is good.

[Griffin Newman]

Wally has one friend, Cockroach. His name is Halacha.

[David Ehrlich]

What's his name?

[Griffin Newman]

Hal. Because of Howl Roach.

[David Ehrlich]

Funny.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a fun show.

[David Ehrlich]

I mean, you know, I'm not. Not laughing out loud.

[Griffin Newman]

You went and you smiled.

[David Ehrlich]

You caught me.

[Griffin Newman]

May the listener note that, as you

[David Ehrlich]

already mentioned, Stanton says they watched a Keaton and a chaplain every single day. They were very in. You know, like, interested in, like, pantomime conveying everything. Right? Like, how, like, can we make a movie where you turn the sound off and know what's going on? The kind of Chuck Jones, right?

[Griffin Newman]

There's Act.

[David Ehrlich]

Axiom. Axiom, of course, also is the name of it.

[Griffin Newman]

There's a true challenge of, like, let's actually test our fucking bones as animators to see if we can tell a story through movement. And when you remove the kind of recognizable autonomy of a human body, then how do you convey these things? What I'm talking about of him not wanting to do the cheats of giving them normal human movements and whatever, and then he's also, like, by doing that, you also test every other department more. If you're not going to have words, even though we wrote those words into the script, then I'm asking the music to convey those things. I'm asking the camera to convey those things. I'm asking color to convey those things. Ralph Eggleston, who is one of the Early. Early Pixar guys and is the production designer of most of their movies and was part of that CalArts group. He passed away 2022, I believe, very tragically. What was a genius? Ralph Eggleston.

[David Ehrlich]

Ralph Eggleston.

[Griffin Newman]

And the Criterion release has a really nice feature that's basically like a eulogy for him, but also a explaining how important he was. I brought this up a little bit in the Finding Nemo episode. But the thing of the color scripts where they do a kind of visual script of the movie based on the color palette of every sequence so that you can chart the tonality of, like, what you want to convey through mood and color.

[Ben Hosley]

He didn't need to do one of those for John Carter.

[David Ehrlich]

Red.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a lot of red. But Stanton said, and I'd never heard it put this cleanly before, he's like, it seems a little indulgent to people on the outside, but in animation it is not a standard thing. Eggleston basically made it a new thing because he was such a student of production design that he found out that William Cameron Menzies did these on his sci fi movies of like the crazy

[David Ehrlich]

forties, British, you know, like, things to

[Griffin Newman]

come and all super kind of like expressions got made.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

And would think about, like, what are you conveying in color from setup to setup? And Eggleston was like, this was a cool thing. And those movies look really cool. We should try to bring this back. And everyone thought it seemed a little indulgent. Then when he did it, he was like, right. Animation is so piecemeal that you don't actually see the final version of everything until the last moment. You're not getting like, location scouting. You're not shooting things and being able to recognize, like the color temperature in front of the lens at the time. It takes so long to add color and lighting and all of that. To have that as like a guiding force at the beginning, to know you're working towards really helps.

[David Ehrlich]

One thing I want to note in

[Griffin Newman]

here

[David Ehrlich]

that we haven't mentioned yet, but it's not something I ever thought about because I don't like. I've never seen this movie. A lot of people noted that, like, possibly accidentally, Wally does look like Johnny Five, who is from Short Circuit, one

[Griffin Newman]

of Ben's best friends.

[David Sims]

He is one of my best friends, though. I'm Short Circuit to having revisited it

[David Ehrlich]

on there's some issues.

[David Sims]

An episode of Flop House.

[Griffin Newman]

It solves racism.

[David Ehrlich]

Oh, no.

[David Sims]

It was something that I didn't pick up on as a young Kid, I

[David Ehrlich]

think that's one of quite shocked. What's this here?

[Ben Hosley]

Fisher Stevens lives in my neighborhood and every time I see him at a coffee shop, I'm just like, immediately short

[David Ehrlich]

circuit the human bomb.

[Ben Hosley]

I feel so bad for him. He's done so much work.

[David Sims]

You're right, though. I've never thought about that. They're very similar.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the eyes and. And sort of on the long neck.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

I found that infuriating as a talking point at the time. It was a little mini version of the Avatar is literally just fern gully thing where I'm like, the fucking come on. Like there's a thousand other things going on in this movie.

[David Ehrlich]

I agree, I agree. So Wally, but Johnny Five.

[David Sims]

Innocent.

[David Ehrlich]

Sure. He never did anything. Wait, I'm seeing that Johnny 5 here was at a J6.

[Griffin Newman]

No, you basically.

[David Sims]

Wait, where was he on January 6th?

[David Ehrlich]

He's trying to get up the stairs at the Capitol building. He keeps like falling over. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a funny mistake.

[David Sims]

Yeah. He was just sightseeing.

[David Ehrlich]

He's next to Jay Johnson.

[Griffin Newman]

Next to Jay Johnson.

[David Ehrlich]

All right.

[Griffin Newman]

You basically see one day of his.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And the little.

[David Ehrlich]

You see a normal day and then you see the weird day. It's a perfect way to do it, I feel.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. Eve comes in at like minute 13. I mean, it's. It's like so efficient while you. You feel like you've spent a lot of fucking time with him. I think a lot of that is the silence. Makes all those moments really. You lean in and they matter more. But yes, him going back home, the organization of where do I put the spork? And all this sort of stuff, the understanding of the level of feeling and thought he's putting into everything. And then his nightly ritual of like the ipod video playing, the hello Dolly sequence that he obsessively watches over and over again. I think it is such a beautiful, simplistic boiling down of like, if they're robots and they, like, don't have any biological drive to procreate.

[David Ehrlich]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And it doesn't want to fuck. That they would, like, need romance. Yeah. That he's recognizing something of, like, what is being expressed in the statement of holding someone's hand as a show of intimacy or having companionship.

[David Ehrlich]

It.

[Griffin Newman]

It's such a nice, like.

[Ben Hosley]

Oh, you know, God gave him hands for a reason.

[David Ehrlich]

So good. I mean, are they hands? I guess they're kind of like loaders or what? They're part of his sort of, you know, his cubing power.

[Griffin Newman]

He also said that basically, in the time that they were developing this movie, the ipod video got introduced and he asked. Asked Jobs for permission. Can I put this in the movie? When it was a brand new thing.

[Ben Hosley]

Who among us did not watch the first episode of Battlestar Galactica on an iPad? Classic. IPod. Classic. On a slide screen that is like one inch.

[Griffin Newman]

I was watching Lost on those. On the.

[David Ehrlich]

I remember Lost was kind of like the first show where they were like, like, yeah, iTunes video, like, you know,

[Griffin Newman]

like 99 cents an episode.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I was. I mean, I'd watch it on broadcast and then when an episode was good, I'd be like, purchased re watch at school. Wow. But he asked Jobs permission because it was such a new device. And he was like, I bet by the time this movie comes out, it's already antiquated technology. And he was like, sure enough, like, iPhone comes out a year before this movie comes out. Replaces the ipod video it already was. Wally has an antique. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

But here's the thing about Eve and Griffin. I feel like you can relate to this along with me, which is that I. I don't know if there is a better evocation in film, animated or otherwise, of what it feels like to be a neurotic teenage boy and have an intense crush on somebody.

[Griffin Newman]

This is what this is where I'm saying. I'm not going to even say, for better or worse, this was the primary concern of my life when I was 20 years old.

[Ben Hosley]

Like, you're awed by the girls you like, terrified of.

[Griffin Newman]

Talk to them.

[Ben Hosley]

They are involved in things that are so far above your station.

[Griffin Newman]

Until I have a crush on someone and then I show them green plants

[Ben Hosley]

and they go catatonic.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, sims you had to, like, deal with, even a little later in my life, the versions of this where we'd be at a bar and I'd be like, I don't even know what. How would. How would I start a sentence?

[David Ehrlich]

You once. Instead of talking to a woman who I think may have been interested in. You can't remember these specific.

[Griffin Newman]

Of course, the tragic irony was they often were.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, of course.

[Griffin Newman]

And I would fuck it up, boy.

[David Ehrlich]

Shit. Drew a picture. I wish I could find it. Let me see if I could find it. Of just a sad little guy.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, I remember. That's. Jesus Christ. You do remember that this was a videology.

[David Sims]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

You met at videology. Drew a picture.

[David Sims]

No, no.

[Griffin Newman]

Griff was just.

[David Ehrlich]

Instead of like, you know, being a person who talks to another person, he was just. Instead drew A weird little picture.

[David Sims]

Like, they note, like, no, no, no.

[Griffin Newman]

Let me clarify this story.

[David Ehrlich]

Just gave it to.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, well, people get talking over me, videology trivia. And for like, 10 consecutive weeks, I turn to Dave and I'd be like, I have such a crush on that girl I cannot speak to.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And David would be like, go talk to her. I'd be like, I don't know how to do that. And it was one night where David was trying to, like, hype me up to be like, just, like, walk over and say something about trivia. And instead I drew a sad face.

[David Sims]

You're missing out. Because you know what's great then? When they're mean to you?

[Ben Hosley]

Well, you're like, wally learn sometimes they have fully loaded cannons for our.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, no, I. I do think this movie is one of the greatest depictions of that. And I love the Buster Keaton movies that lean romantic because they weaponize a similar dynamic. Except the difference is that Buster Keaton often seems kind of oblivious. Right. That he's lovestruck, and then it's just sort of like him chasing after and he doesn't realize how much the world is trying to stop him. Whereas Wally is, like, smitten and also terrified.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. The combination of. Of being smitten, being terrified, and being there was the third thing. And then you sort of just took the words out of my mouth. But anyway, odd. Odd is the other thing that I think completes the.

[Griffin Newman]

It is maybe my single favorite moment in the movie and speaks to what I was saying earlier. He sees the red dot. He's chasing it. You realize the ship is landing. Right. He's hiding behind the rock. He sees her come out. Everything is very kind of routine, right? The arm comes out. It unleashes her. She activates. Her design is still so cool, where it's like, seamless, unibody thing. And then the head and arms can float off to the sides, and the hands. The arms can turn into fingers if need be and all that sort of.

[Ben Hosley]

Wow.

[David Ehrlich]

I found a picture of Wilder. I'm so far back in my photos right now. That's Wilder.

[Griffin Newman]

Alan Smith.

[David Ehrlich]

Alan. Yeah.

[David Sims]

What happened?

[Griffin Newman]

Wild.

[David Ehrlich]

I know.

[Griffin Newman]

He was our nemesis.

[David Ehrlich]

This is 2015, so he's probably like. I think he was like one or two. He was like two. Maybe two.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

It came to my trivia.

[Griffin Newman]

If you're trying to find the trivia drawing, that would be like, 22.

[David Ehrlich]

I know, I know. I went too far.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, I went too far. I think my favorite moment in the entire film is, like, Eve is there. She's like locked in on her mission. The ship starts to leave and you see her kind of clocking once she's out of the view. And then it's like she takes a breath and has just the joy flight. And it's that moment of, oh, shit. She's like him. For some reason.

[David Ehrlich]

She's a little different.

[Griffin Newman]

She finds joy in doing things. She is doing things for her own satisfaction. And if he wasn't already going to be smitten just by like, I've never seen a robot like that. There's a personality there. And as much as she then tries to immediately cover it and be like, I am all business, it is every robot we meet who is a primary character. It's the same thing with Mo when we get to Moe and he makes the decision to jump off. Off the line because he loves cleaning so much.

[David Ehrlich]

Does love. He do. That's his art. That's how he. You know.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

Whatever Finds joy.

[Griffin Newman]

Every one of those activation moments is so satisfying to me.

[David Ehrlich]

I.

[Ben Hosley]

Is Mo driven by joy Here it is. Mo driven by.

[David Ehrlich]

This is the drawing Griffin made. Rather than flirt with a girl.

[David Sims]

Huh. Okay. We'll make sure to post that. I don't know what to say.

[David Ehrlich]

What is it saying number three?

[Griffin Newman]

I have no idea what the was

[David Ehrlich]

joke might be like. You're not even number two. You're number three.

[Ben Hosley]

I quite could be a Kid Cudi reference.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't think it was

[Ben Hosley]

Chance the rappers.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, no. But it would have predated that.

[David Ehrlich]

I think it predates.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. We'll. We'll post it on the Instagram. But yes. Wally's just, like, chasing after her. And then there's the moment where he. She hears him exhale and then just immediately, like, turbo cannons him.

[David Ehrlich]

Love it when she turbo cannons him. Hottest part.

[Griffin Newman]

Part. It's their meat. Cute is she thinks she's murdered him.

[David Ehrlich]

Gosh. Just imagine dating an egg robot with an arm cannon. Pretty cool. Obviously she's gotta build a cold shower

[Ben Hosley]

into the back of Blank Studio, indirectly

[David Ehrlich]

inspired by Apple products. But obviously she's also kind of like a nesting doll design. Like, she's got the sort of matryoshka shape. The egg. This is from Angus McClane. Who that? Is that the guy who. The Presto guy.

[Griffin Newman]

No, that's.

[David Ehrlich]

Which one is he?

[Griffin Newman]

Am I wrong in thinking. No, Presto isn't Teddy Newton, is it? Is Presto Teddy Newton?

[David Ehrlich]

Let's find out. Presto film. Because I remember like that. That director Doug Sweetland.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, Doug Sweetland.

[David Ehrlich]

Me always being like, when's he making a movie? And then he ended up making Storks. You know, he left. I never saw Storks.

[Ben Hosley]

Storks was a Nicholas Stoller joint.

[Griffin Newman]

He wrote it.

[David Ehrlich]

He wrote it. It did.

[Griffin Newman]

He co directed with Sweden. He might be the only director.

[David Ehrlich]

He might have.

[Griffin Newman]

That was that era where they kept snuck. They were like, we only let an animation guy co direct a movie with a live action guy or a comedy.

[David Ehrlich]

Correct? It's correct. It's to both of them. Angus McLean is the guy who co directed Finding Dory and then directed light year, aka what year was storks? 2016.

[Ben Hosley]

Because storks was in the, like, in my Come to Jesus after my Come to Jesus moment of recognizing that forgetting Sarah Marshall is the greatest of all works of art and culture of the last 100 years. And being like, I will see literally anything Nicholas Stoller makes next. He's like, I'm directing a movie about storks clearing babies. And I was like, well, I guess there's a line somewhere.

[Griffin Newman]

That movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Never saw it.

[Griffin Newman]

I found to be a bit of a rough hand. Doug Sweetland is like an incredible character animator and especially incredible at like, animated comedy, physical comedy, and has. Is responsible.

[David Ehrlich]

That's why Presto. So funny.

[Griffin Newman]

All the.

[David Ehrlich]

The hijinks.

[Griffin Newman]

But like a lot of the best, best Pixar physical comedy moments. I feel like the one that's always pointed at is Woody acting out in Toy Story 2 when they're like, playing Woody's roundup and he comes out of the box and is like, being all hot. Angus McLean and Doug Sweetland felt like the two guys where it was like, when are they gonna let them make a movie? And they let Doug Sweetland get away.

[David Ehrlich]

Right? And then Angus makes Lightyear, which is worse than making a movie.

[Griffin Newman]

It's so bizarre.

[David Ehrlich]

It's like making a negative movie.

[Griffin Newman]

But he did Bernie, which was the short that accompanied this. This really good.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, that's fun.

[Griffin Newman]

And he did Toy Story of Terror. Jesse finds a way to watch some

[Ben Hosley]

of those early Pixar movies. You might like them.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's a total blind spot for me. I'm just reading off the doss.

[Ben Hosley]

Anyway, Jesse does find a way.

[David Ehrlich]

Angus. Mlan. She looks dangly. Eve, she looks dangly and wind chimy when she's in automaton mode. When she gets emotional, she does more arcs, like on a porpoise flying around.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, well, that's when this moment of joy where she just kind of like flies around Like a flower.

[David Ehrlich]

They loved the cockroach idea also. Just like, that's a fun challenge. Like making a cockroach cute.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. It doesn't have a face.

[David Ehrlich]

Doesn't have a face.

[David Sims]

So

[Griffin Newman]

one.

[David Ehrlich]

One other note on production design. Act one is all romantic and emotional lighting. And then act two, they say act one and act two. You're right that the movie is. Is really in thirds. But I guess they basically mean, like, planet, then spaceship.

[Griffin Newman]

Act two is like. Get to know the axiom. Act three is like the uprising.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes. But then, you know, act. Act two is essentially the axiom is sterility, order, cleanliness.

[Ben Hosley]

It's when it goes from being Buster Keaton to Jacques Tati.

[David Ehrlich]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

But you're also. Yes, sorry.

[David Ehrlich]

They try to make the lighting more romantic as act two goes on. Like, you know, they try. They sort of soften it as. As, you know, personality enters.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, the movie starts out really washed out. Then you start to get some warmth when Eve enters. I think the most beautiful sequence in the movie is when there's, like, the big dust storm and he brings Eve inside. And the way Eve reacts to the darkness of the room where she's, like, glowing. And you see the weird ring of fluorescence inside of her neck. And also the reflections of the Christmas lights and everything.

[Ben Hosley]

And you get the stinging fish, which is between this and the Sopranos was having a huge cultural moment.

[Griffin Newman]

Billy Bass was one of her greatest. But, yeah, she basically almost accidentally shoots him and then is just like, I the fuck are you? And then you get your sequence. The Livy and Rose of him just kind of like following after trying to get her attention.

[Ben Hosley]

Who among us hasn't had a say? What the fuck are you?

[Griffin Newman]

She's just like, I'm working.

[David Sims]

I do feel like it's important to point out, though, that Eve comes into contact with Hal, almost shoots how the cockroach. But instead she likes him. She likes him. And they both. Wally and Eve get tickled by the cockroach, which is really sweet, but it's showing that she's kind.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, right, right. But that happens before she meets Wally. It's like Wally making such an advanced overture to her. She's like, no, get away. I'm working. She wishes almost he hadn't seen her. Be nice to Hal. Wants to put on the face of all.

[Ben Hosley]

Maybe the best shot in the movie is right after she's exploded all of the oil tankers.

[David Ehrlich]

I agree with you.

[Ben Hosley]

And shot from behind of Wally in silhouette, just sort of saddling up slowly.

[Griffin Newman]

Besides, her but also that he recognizes that's the moment where it's like, oh, she's shown, like, emotion in being so frustrated that she caused this much damage, that she had her fucking Adam Driver punching the wall moment.

[Ben Hosley]

But also that he witnessed so little game that he's like, now is my time to strike.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's also so funny to see her. And it's like. It's like they convey physical tension in her body, even though that shouldn't be possible, as she's watching the ships burn. And she's just sort of like, her eyes narrowing, like, wanting the catharsis of watching something be destroyed when she.

[David Ehrlich]

When her eye go grumpy mode.

[Griffin Newman]

The eyes are so good. But he. He senses the opening of, like, okay, if we can just exchange names. We're cooking here.

[David Ehrlich]

Right? Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And she's charmed by the fact that he can't say it. It's a little funny. He bring. He brings her into his home. She loves his collection. It's possible.

[Ben Hosley]

And then she likes that fantasy of showing. Showing her one object that is going to so blow her mind. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That she's false asleep.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, that's. That's right.

[David Ehrlich]

You show her a boot with plants in it and she goes unconscious.

[Griffin Newman]

But all of those gags of. Of handing her the light bulb and then getting. Getting so kind of, like, frustrated that he can't turn it on. I like for fixing the Rubik's Cube.

[David Ehrlich]

I like when she laughs when she goes like. Or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. The pop in the bubble wrap. Like, she's finally just totally let her guard down and is as fascinated by every object he shows her, but also able to solve them so much faster.

[David Sims]

We also see him turn into a cube.

[David Ehrlich]

Oh, you mean when he goes into, like, sleep mode.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah. And we know that he's charged by the sun.

[David Sims]

I think it's just awesome design. Yeah. That he not only makes cubes, but is a cube.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Which, like, this is a classic Pixar logic thing. Stan is always the first to point out it makes no physical sense. If you keep seeing the way his stomach opens up to be able to compress the trash. There's no space that his body could actually suck into.

[David Ehrlich]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's.

[Ben Hosley]

Now that can, like, fold on top of themselves. Man. Anything's possible.

[David Ehrlich]

They.

[Griffin Newman]

They communicate it to you in movement so much that you're like, I just understand what you're asking me to explain. Accept. But, yes, he's showing her all the objects he's trying to show her. Hello, Dolly. She doesn't give a shit. She can't even like pay attention to it. And then he makes the mistake of showing her, of course, plant and boot.

[Ben Hosley]

Do you think that if he had shown her a scene with Walter Mathau, she would have been a lot more locked in?

[Griffin Newman]

She'd be like, and this guy was like a major movie star.

[Ben Hosley]

Like I. I now understand he did like all genres.

[Griffin Newman]

He'd be like the romantic lead in Things Mathow. Foreign.

[David Ehrlich]

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.

[Griffin Newman]

You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies. 18 plus.

[David Sims]

I'm watching a clip or I'm watching the movie. Here he makes a little Eve statue and she is unimpressed. And then he kicks a bunch of

[Griffin Newman]

metal pipes and it falls all on her. Great stuff.

[Ben Hosley]

And these little treads flip up. It's adorable.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, it's very childlike. Even as he's sort. He's sort of transitioning into like an almost parental mode. Although we see him into parental mode with the cockroach. But I don't know if you've ever seen your child like fall off a bed or something. It's like you're so concerned for them, but immediately it's very funny. Visual. I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, it also helps that where you're just like this guy. His center of gravity is so off, his build is so awkward that doing anything other than rolling on a flat surface, you're just like, I don't know if he's going to make it.

[Ben Hosley]

But there's also, I mean, I don't know how deep we need to go into the imagined lore of by and large, but some practical application towards designing him to be cute on the company's behalf.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, because they don't want these things to be threatening.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Versus the. The robots on the Axiom are less cute because people aren't even really paying attention.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. They're all in the bowels of the

[David Ehrlich]

ship, you know, do we think there's a flaw in Eve's design? No offense to my perfect queen.

[Griffin Newman]

Go on.

[David Ehrlich]

One boot with one plant is enough to turn around like a ship with 600,000 people on it. Be like, well, Earth seems ready. Because like I'm looking at Earth. It ain't like, ready, ready. Sure, we might want to wait for, like, a tree or two, but that's,

[Griffin Newman]

like, centuries ago programming.

[David Ehrlich]

It's just funny that she's like. Well, you know, like, there's one plant baby that's not a flaw.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, she's doing her job perfectly. That's maybe a flaw.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm not criticizing the work she's doing.

[Griffin Newman]

You also have to imagine that thought is, we'll put everyone on a starliner for five to 10 years maximum. And if we see the first sign of vegetation, that means, oh, it's coming back. It's ready to go back there. They didn't know that the world was going to become that awful. And the idea of this one boot making it would be so against the odds.

[David Ehrlich]

They knew. What if there is a guy on the Axiom?

[Ben Hosley]

They knew and they did nothing. Mark Ruffalo.

[David Ehrlich]

So, yeah, what else happens now? She's opening. Then she goes sleep mode.

[Griffin Newman]

Coma mode.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And Wally still tries to, like, you have the. The Thomas Newman kind of muzak. Wally doing date nights with coma Eve.

[David Sims]

Oh, we gotta call out. He dances for her.

[Griffin Newman]

He does the little. It's so sweet.

[David Sims]

And he had picked up the, like, trash lid. And it pays off. He's like, like, doffing his hat.

[David Ehrlich]

He's a cool guy.

[Griffin Newman]

The top hat, I also love that.

[David Sims]

Then she tries to dance and she shakes the whole thing and smashes him into the wall.

[David Ehrlich]

She's.

[Ben Hosley]

She's a clomper.

[David Ehrlich]

Dude. It is so funny though, right? When she, like, Hulk Lokis him.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

Like,

[Griffin Newman]

I also love the moment of him forget how he injures the eye in the first place. I can't remember.

[David Ehrlich]

But when he gets the new guy,

[Griffin Newman]

when he has to replace the eye and he's so embarrassed that she's, like, seeing him naked, having to plug the eye back in. But it also teaches you, like, what it's gonna look like when he's recalibrating.

[David Sims]

Oh, it's when he falls. I'm watching here.

[Griffin Newman]

It's after the dance.

[David Sims]

Slaps. Slams him into the wall. He falls down and breaks one of his eyes.

[Ben Hosley]

There's a lot of very clever. Some more overt seed planting there. I'm thinking particularly of, like, the fire extinguisher. Things that are just in front. I mean, even when they introduce the boat, the boot, it's not even the focus of. It's like a half, half second throwaway.

[Griffin Newman]

It's just part of his collection.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, they don't give it any special emphasis.

[Griffin Newman]

No. He puts it in the igloo cooler, but it doesn't get any more attention than the bra. It gets less attention than the bra.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, the bra kills. So. Yeah, that's why.

[Griffin Newman]

Because Wally's rocking double D eyes.

[David Sims]

What about the.

[Griffin Newman]

The lighter, Ben?

[David Sims]

There's like. It's like two robots and on this, you know, abandoned planet, and they're looking at the original source of, like, energy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's Prometheus. Yeah. But the other thing, Ben is in the version of the movie where Wally has to save Eve and she is the one who gets crushed. And he's carrying her for the last 20 minutes. There was some Chekhov's gun of the lighter being the way they reactivated her. It's why they put a lot of emphasis on it at the beginning. It's still a nice moment. Yeah. Which is why I'm sure they kept it in. But it was supposed to be in some way. He replaces her battery with the lighter.

[Ben Hosley]

It's also a machine. Using a machine. It places him like an even more antiquated machine. Sort of places him in this continuum where you understand him as a relic, but also as a product of the future.

[Griffin Newman]

And it's a machine with a natural force inside of it. You know, it's like organic versus.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, it's exactly right. I mean, it's a machine that can create an element which is so crucial, just as he, you know, metal box can feel love. It's, you know, not an analog.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's got a flame inside of him.

[Ben Hosley]

A question that made me that. That made a question that I had watching the first 30 minutes of this movie again was if Disney would ever dare make a live action adaptation of a Pixar movie, or if it is a tribute to the ineffable quality of Pixar's better films that they can't be conceived of in live action in the way that Moana can.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I had that thought watching this of like, are they ever gonna d. Do this? And it's like, what would it be? You know, like, it's the line between this and doing a more modern. It basically becomes just like a PS5 rebuild of a PS2 game.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. Like, why bother? I mean.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

Which, what is now the disturbing thought experiment of like, what is the most live actionable up.

[Griffin Newman]

It's up.

[David Ehrlich]

Upper Incredibles.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I. I have gotten the sense, and I say this with no inside track, but the. The vibe I've always got. Pixar retains the right to Say no to that.

[Ben Hosley]

And it feels like they have to exercise every morning at 9am when they

[Griffin Newman]

get the daily email of, hey, exercising it fully. This is the other thing.

[David Ehrlich]

Is Moana one of yours? No.

[Ben Hosley]

Great.

[Griffin Newman]

It's no surprise that, like, Disney inherits this batch of films in acquiring Pixar and Iger's, like, great. We're gonna put our full muscle behind them. We will try to make all of these movies hits. The Toy Story 3 is next, right? Like, the sequel run starts right after this. Yeah, it was like. Like, we'll treat these movies as precious gems, but you gotta start fucking playing ball with us.

[David Ehrlich]

Well, up is right after this, then Toy Story.

[Griffin Newman]

But UP is the last of the three films acquired. I'm saying the first film that Disney commissions is like Toy Story 3.

[David Ehrlich]

Now it is like the. The Ratatouille, Wally up. Toy Story 3 is Bridge, a movie I like, although not as much as some. And then Cars two. Brave Monsters. You like. It's a crazy downshift.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

Like crazy.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Yeah, it's. You got to play ball now.

[Ben Hosley]

You guys weren't Fans of Cars 2.

[David Ehrlich]

I've never seen.

[Griffin Newman]

I have been working on this theory, and I rewatched the film recently.

[David Ehrlich]

Did you know.

[Griffin Newman]

And I did. I. I truly did you know that

[Ben Hosley]

Michael Kane's in it.

[Griffin Newman]

It's based in truth. He plays Finn McMissile.

[David Ehrlich]

Well, truth is in truth.

[Griffin Newman]

In comedy, he plays Finn McAll, who's a MI6 car. His sidekick, of course, is Holly Shiftwell, which is.

[David Ehrlich]

It's pretty.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

That. That makes me uncomfortable.

[Griffin Newman]

I was watching Cars 2 and I was like, you know, this really isn't as good as Cars one and Cars three, which I've never loved, has at least more integrity.

[Ben Hosley]

Now. How do they all stack up against Planes one?

[Griffin Newman]

I was thinking that planes. Fire and Rescue makes planes look like cars 2 and cars 2.

[Ben Hosley]

It's getting too complicated.

[Griffin Newman]

Might make cars 3 look like cars 1.

[David Ehrlich]

The only Pixar movies I have not seen are Cars two and three.

[Ben Hosley]

You've seen Onward?

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, I like Onward.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, Onward's good.

[David Ehrlich]

I've seen Onward multiple times.

[Ben Hosley]

You're the only two people I've ever met.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Multiple times on the Steelbook.

[David Ehrlich]

That I can't say I don't own the Steelbook.

[Griffin Newman]

Nice deal.

[David Ehrlich]

Big fan of that.

[Griffin Newman]

The denim jacket with all the patches on.

[David Ehrlich]

I, I. Yeah, because I've seen. Yeah, I've seen everything else. Yeah. The ones that I've seen a lot is disturbing because of my daughter. So, like. Well, it's not disturbing that I've seen Luca, like, 25 times. Because I like Luca.

[Griffin Newman]

Good dinosaurs. Disturbing. When you told me she was going through a good dinosaur phase, that was

[David Ehrlich]

a pretty brief phase, but it did exist. But, like, the turning Red phase was so great. The Ratatouille phase. Amazing. Wally. Great. Luca. That's a good movie. Like, it's not my favorite.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a simple movie.

[David Ehrlich]

It's really easy to have on.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I. I love it, though.

[Ben Hosley]

I think.

[Griffin Newman]

I feel like you come around on Luca.

[Ben Hosley]

I've always been a fan of Luca, but. Yeah, I feel like your son had

[Griffin Newman]

a phase where you were happy.

[Ben Hosley]

I think because it pushes against what we were talking about earlier about, like, the capitalistic, like, you know, fumes around Pixar stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

It's fun. It's a little bit more.

[Griffin Newman]

It feels like, pointedly small.

[Ben Hosley]

It sure does. Although I wanted to, you know, we were badmouthing, with good reason, the good dinosaur. But a shout out to Peter Sohn. I. I have definitely had a Stockholm syndrome like, experience with Elemental, which was the first movie I ever took. Ace in the City theaters did not click at the time, but can I call this out? Yeah, I mean, put him on blast.

[Griffin Newman]

I believe it was in our Wind Rises episode.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't here for that.

[Griffin Newman]

Weren't you the guest on Wind Rises?

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, if only. No, I was here for Castle. Not the Castle. Fucking Howl's Moving Castle.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, right, right.

[David Ehrlich]

That's the one where I announced Matrix resurrections.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. I can't remember if it was that or.

[Ben Hosley]

It's so crazy that they let you make that announcement to the world of all people, but you did it.

[David Ehrlich]

Well, I mean, I was a big fan.

[Griffin Newman]

There's some episode that people have invoked where you say, I will not let my son watch Western animation.

[Ben Hosley]

This is a classic where it's like the one. The one thing I know, like, this child will not be loved. I will not be provided for. But they will. They will not see any sort of CGI Western animation.

[David Ehrlich]

You wouldn't show your kid Ghibli movies because you were afraid he wouldn't like it.

[Ben Hosley]

It turns out.

[David Ehrlich]

It turns out that you're mentally ill. It's time for me to throw the wall.

[Griffin Newman]

No, no, keep it.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay. Okay.

[Ben Hosley]

So that. The reality of raising a child, it's very different than.

[David Ehrlich]

No, your reality is a weird reality, my friend.

[Ben Hosley]

At two years old, I was like, son, this is an Apple TV remote. That is the bed where I am asleep in the morning. Use this to watch whatever the you want as long as you're not waking back.

[Griffin Newman]

You were just so confident that you were going to hold the line of artistic purity. And then your son is, like, obsessed with Italian braidy rot and he's got good taste and watch as many good

[David Ehrlich]

things I have watched your son watch. Watch YouTube videos of 10 wordles being solved. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

So I also have this competing instinct of me, which is like, I cannot be that parent who foists the cool kids.

[Griffin Newman]

You don't want to be the onion arbor child.

[Ben Hosley]

Exactly. It means more to me that you come to my favorite movies organically and like them on your own terms, and I'll show them to you, you know, selectively when the time is right. But I'm not going to shove them down your throat. I'm going to let you reach these places on your own. Elemental was what was playing. I wanted to take it to him. He came back around an elemental in a huge fucking way. And he really.

[David Ehrlich]

My daughter did have an elemental.

[Griffin Newman]

I just want to call out a very distant conversation I remember having with you, which was, I feel like I'm almost ready to take Asa to see a movie, but his first movie needs to matter. And I was like, elemental.

[Ben Hosley]

What matters more than Elemental?

[Griffin Newman]

And you looked at me and said, my son's first movie is not going to be a Pete song.

[Ben Hosley]

Wow. Well.

[Griffin Newman]

And then, like, sorry. Six weeks later, you were like, took Asa to Elemental.

[Ben Hosley]

And I said, good time.

[Griffin Newman]

And you said it was raining or something.

[Ben Hosley]

It sure was.

[David Sims]

It was.

[Ben Hosley]

You woke up, it was a Sunday afternoon, it was raining. And that. Those are dark times for a parent I love. But listen, New York City's own Pete's own respect.

[Griffin Newman]

But I also took your son to.

[Ben Hosley]

You took him to Totoro because I could not.

[Griffin Newman]

You were like, I couldn't sit there and watch him. Potentially not like it.

[David Ehrlich]

Mental illness, wallet.

[Griffin Newman]

It was the same screening that you took.

[David Ehrlich]

I was like, I'm having communing with my dad. Stay away from me.

[Griffin Newman]

And I took Alex son, and you were like, if. If he doesn't like it, just don't tell me.

[David Ehrlich]

Sure. I mean, my daughter. But like, the difference being my daughter had seen Totoro like 20 times. It was one of her first movies.

[Ben Hosley]

And my. My daughter, who is a lot more pliable and responsive to, you know, the studio gibly of it all, is obsessed with and turned me on to really converted me to the power of Ponyo, which she now wants to watch. Either that or Totoro.

[David Ehrlich]

That was my daughter's first movie. Yeah, dude.

[Ben Hosley]

Elemental has some charm.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Great music.

[David Ehrlich]

I have really struggled to locate the charm of Elemental and I've seen it.

[Ben Hosley]

It has some. Wade is a little bit of a nuisance, but it's the main character. But I like. I like when Ember speaks Irish.

[David Ehrlich]

Find all of it.

[Ben Hosley]

I like the music driving on her.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

Listen, you.

[Griffin Newman]

Do you own that film Elemental? I do not. Ben, it's actually a really good question.

[David Ehrlich]

I own it.

[Griffin Newman]

I was.

[David Ehrlich]

But cuz Disney sent me a free copy.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay. I was maintaining.

[David Ehrlich]

I do have a blue.

[Griffin Newman]

I was maintaining. Not even a 4k?

[David Ehrlich]

No, they sent me a blue and I was like, I'll put it on the shelf.

[Griffin Newman]

They were like, do you care about the K's on this one? I was maintaining a own every Pixar film. And even in the Pandemic, I like broke down and bought 3D blu rays of good dinosaur and maybe cars 2. Another one I like didn't like. And Elemental was the one where I was like, I don't need to own this in any form.

[David Sims]

Thank God. I'm truly relieved now.

[Griffin Newman]

Who knows? Two months from now I might hit a rough patch and start trolling ebay for the Elemental Steelbook. But as of this moment, I own Elemental and in no form.

[Ben Hosley]

I don't even own my daughter's first movie in theaters. Will by no means be Minions, Monsters and Minions.

[David Ehrlich]

Wait, your kid's three now.

[Ben Hosley]

Thus guaranteeing that's exactly what it's going to be.

[David Ehrlich]

Monsters. I've seen the trailer for at every movie I've taken and I'm always like. And I think it's time for me

[Griffin Newman]

to catch up with the Dominions bounce off of me. I have never gotten it without any Judge Banana, but I see that trailer and I'm like, do I gotta do the details?

[Ben Hosley]

It is a little galaxy brain to be like. Like the Minions obviously love Early's like Sword and Sandal cinema. Like of course.

[David Ehrlich]

I think that's fine.

[Ben Hosley]

That's great.

[Griffin Newman]

Is this their like, Wally moment? You know where Pierre Coffin's like, I've made you so much money.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

I want to make my passion project.

[Ben Hosley]

Right?

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Can I use the Minions to express my interest in the. In the birth of cinema?

[David Ehrlich]

I feel like nobody liked the second Minions. Right? Rise of Gru. That was the one I feel like really passed.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the only one I've ever seen.

[Ben Hosley]

But you could slap the word Minions on anything and it would mean to hit. You could have the Minions. Minions and Mosquito coast speaking of the episode of your show that most recently aired. And that thing would print money.

[Griffin Newman]

Minions and solo.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, maybe Monsters and Minions will have a shout out to a solo. It doesn't really fit into the five, but why not? Yeah, Minions movie needs it. Sing 3 could be entirely solo dependent. I feel like that would fit very organically.

[Griffin Newman]

That's another one where I'm just remake. I don't get this thing.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay, so they get to the Axiom. I think we need to get to the Axiom now.

[Ben Hosley]

Now.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. Axiom time.

[Griffin Newman]

He's just trying to take care of her. Right. As she is now infirm basically, and shut down until her ship returns to retrieve her.

[David Sims]

And staying out in the elements. He's getting struck by lightning. He's getting rained on. But he's then covering her up with a garbage can.

[Griffin Newman]

He's really sweet and. But her ship comes and he has to make a split second decision, which is like, I'm going to grab onto the back of a spaceship because I don't want to lose her and I don't know where she's going.

[Ben Hosley]

Telling the cockroach to stay put. Where it is is as anthropomorphized as I think Wally ever gets.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. And now two hours into the episode, we've hit the 30 minute mark, which is when he blasts off into space.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And you have the beautiful sort of five minute sequence of him seeing the solar system touching the rings of Saturn. Just beautiful. Shit. We argued in the Finding Nemo episode that that's Thomas Newman's best score. And I think it's the best like, use of the Thomas Noonan thing. Thomas Noonan, the great Tom Noonan, who recently died. I think Finding Nemo is the best version of what Thomas Newman does really well. I was surprised rewatching this, how different it is from most of his work. It has the strains of the motifs, but I think partially because the movie is putting so much more weight on the score to convey story. It has like five different tonalities that switches in between. And it feels like this sequence where it's, you know, the kind of like magical Beauty of the stars is when Newman goes into Newman mode for the

[Ben Hosley]

first time and they're flying too close to all these planets.

[Griffin Newman]

They are. But he lands at the Axiom, which is a luxury starliner where babies just do baby.

[Ben Hosley]

And he meets the main character of the film, Mo. Mo.

[Griffin Newman]

Mo is incredible. And I feel like Mo had largely kind of been hidden from the marketing. I think they hit a lot of the Axiom stuff. They really front loaded.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, they did. Because I remember everyone being so focused on this movie and being like. And if you watch the trailer, it does look like it's not all on the plan.

[Griffin Newman]

There's one shot of the captain in the trailer, right? Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

But no one was really prepared for any of that. Which I think might have been also part of why it did bounce off some people. Like some people did bounce off it a little bit.

[Griffin Newman]

I also think, I mean I it. I compare it to like. Like Full Metal Jacket. Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Where it's like often Wally is compared to Full Metal Jacket. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

It doesn't feel like you had a lot of people being like Wally sucks. No, but the first act. But you had a lot of people who are like the first act is.

[David Ehrlich]

That was Normie take amongst my friends. Right. First act, incredible. Second act is fine.

[Griffin Newman]

It goes from being like right perfect.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

To being really good. I. I have always liked the purity of it is. It's just astonishing where you're like I can't believe they're getting away with this. And it's worth agree.

[David Ehrlich]

And I think it's all good. I love the first act and I think it's so special.

[Griffin Newman]

But think the movie needs everything that happens.

[David Ehrlich]

I the sci fi kind of dork that I am just love the Axiom and I love all of the kind of like kids version of rebelling against you know, the ship computer and all. Like it's just like it's a. It's classic sci fi storytelling that I respond to. I think it's so well done. I also and I like that it's goofy farce like yes. Like that it is like a mad.

[Griffin Newman]

That's where you feel the reared in two of like him bringing in a Simpsons guy.

[David Ehrlich]

And obviously the. The just the Pixar, you know, like Monsters Inc. Has a bit of that.

[Griffin Newman]

And of course I also I really like the Captain. There are so many bad versions of this where you're like this is the cop out that we finally introduce a character who can speak all the subtext and explain everything directly to camera. But I think the arc of the captain is really well rendered and I completely agree.

[Ben Hosley]

The captain could have used a wife who kept telling Wally to get the out of her house. That really would have added bossy face.

[Griffin Newman]

Well that auto is kind of his

[Ben Hosley]

work life, I suppose.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Otto. The true villain of the film.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. There's Captain McCray, Jeff Garland's character who does not. He's only called the Captain really. But who is Not a villain.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

And then Otto, voiced by Mackinspeed, whatever it's called.

[Griffin Newman]

Voiced by and credited in the uncredited Mac and Talk. Macintalk.

[David Ehrlich]

It's called macintalk.

[Ben Hosley]

Right, right.

[Griffin Newman]

Which was that. That era's talk to feel when is

[Ben Hosley]

deliberate that the antagonist of the film is the only one not to have any sort of trace of human.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. Like, Ben Burt didn't do that. They just typed words into a computer. And that's Portal is the year before.

[Ben Hosley]

Right. The Portal connection is strong, but I

[David Ehrlich]

think it's parallel thinking it's parallel.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

Like, because it's not like. But I remember at the time, Portal, obviously the greatest video game ever made, equaled only by Portal 2. Like, not being able to shake that comparison.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, obviously, GLaDOS, obviously auto is a lot more HAL. Visually coded. I mean, the red eye at the center is kind of dominant, but. Yeah, I mean, I think it was like the Mac aesthetic combined with evil Superintelligence gives you GLaDOS slash OTTO. But I just want to talk about Mo. I married Mo, as I alluded to earlier in this episode. And.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, can you speak on that?

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to. I was trying to, in that. That sort of pause, figure out how best to do that.

[Griffin Newman]

Your wife, a lovely human being. One of my favorite people. And I. I don't project what you're saying. You're, like, as derogatory, but I need you to unpack it so the audience. Audience, anytime your wife texts me, like,

[David Ehrlich]

you know, are you going to this screening tonight? Like, you know, David's out, and I'm like, no, divorce him. I'm just immediately. I'm just like, divorce. Anytime you, like, go to Cannes, I'm like, divorce? What's he doing? Gordon.

[Ben Hosley]

If she could carry our children up to our fourth floor, walk up, maybe

[David Ehrlich]

she would have found the utility.

[Ben Hosley]

But I am definitely the. Every relationship needs a Wally and a Mo. And Eve is sort of off in her own lane. She's the other woman as far as I'm concerned. But, yeah, on one of our first dates, I drew similar to how Griffin drew a sad version of himself at a bar. I drew a crude. Maybe the best thing I've ever drawn as someone with no artistic talent whatsoever. A little character of Mo on her legs and on both. Across both legs and the ballpoint pen. It turned out pretty well. A lot of just boxes is.

[Griffin Newman]

You identified this movie as a shared point?

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. We've been dating. We've been dating. Started dating 16 years ago, so a

[Griffin Newman]

year or two after Wally.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, I mean, we. We knew each other since college, but we didn't start dating till got drunk one night, as happens. But the. Yeah, she is very compulsive towards cleaning. And I am more of a wall E type in that I like arranging and collecting things that. That other people might think of as trash.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I did appreciate there's a thing on the Criterion desk where Stanton calls out that he is an obsessive physical media collector. And it's like the balance between being like, I buy these things, they give me comfort, they make me happy. I want to be in a room surrounded by all the things I care about. It doesn't actually solve anything. I'm not critical of Wally's compulsion.

[Ben Hosley]

Right, of course. And I. But I wonder about Mo. You know, it's sort of the classic one must imagine Sisyphus happy sort of thing. Like, is he delighted or she delight? They. I mean, the robots are aggressively COD in this movie. Mo not so much, but aggressively gendered, I would say. But is Mo happy to have the excuse to pop out of line and clean something, or is Mo more irritated? This is a question I am often asking in couples therapy with my beautiful partner. But. But, you know, Mo is. When Mo sees the dirt trail goes,

[Griffin Newman]

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That moment, I mean, shakes his arms cut out. Right. He.

[David Ehrlich]

He lives on a line.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

Again, from Portal 2.

[Griffin Newman]

You know, everyone on the Axiom, basically, the axiom all runs on lines, Right.

[David Ehrlich]

His big moment, obviously, is, is daring to jump the line. And one assumes, tempt death. Like, I, I feel like he's thinking, like, if I jump the line, will I just explode or shut down or something.

[Griffin Newman]

But, like, his job is to obsessively clean everything and what is a very sterile environment. And Wally enters the ecosystem covered in dirt and creates a new.

[Ben Hosley]

But does this give Mo a purpose that Mo has never had before, justifying Mo's life? And therefore, should Mo not be pleased to have the opportunity to clean up after someone's messiness?

[Griffin Newman]

That's a great question. I think similar, when I was saying, like, what defines Mo and makes him similar to Wally and Eve is that he takes pleasure in what he does. And you said, is it pleasure or is it like, obsessive compulsive? There is an argument that Mo is like, mentally ill rather than like, driven by joy, but it still is an aberration that gives him a personality.

[Ben Hosley]

I feel like we're broaching territory, that it's no longer fair to discuss without my wife pressing.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure. I'm speaking solely of Mo. I speak not of your. Your lovely wife.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. Anyway, I will say that the dynamic between Wally and Mo is, I think, a very complicated and familiar one to me.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

And I love Mo very much.

[Griffin Newman]

Mo is so fun. Everything about him. His, like, his intensity.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

Very intense mindedness. I mean, he's earlier on a journey that Wally is far along on, and even Eva is a little further along on. Right. Like we're watching just the beginning. Spark of rebellion consciousness or whatever.

[Griffin Newman]

Maybe that's the question. Is like Wally and Eva, when they start sort of deviating, is it at first out of. Of an obsession that then they let turn into a joy?

[Ben Hosley]

You know, it's very Marie Kondo.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

But Wally has for hundreds of years, we assume, been iterating and thus getting weirder and weirder.

[Griffin Newman]

This is Moe's first moment of activation. And then the other droids, we end up seeing the kind of like. I forget what they call incandaminant. Yes. But the sort of like reject bots.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Are all like, they've had their first kind of.

[Ben Hosley]

In the diagnostic bay.

[Griffin Newman]

Right, Right. Aberrant behavior. That is maybe the activation of something.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm just watching a Mo video now. It's just so funny. He's so disgusted by Wally. Wally's so filthy.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Mo's a little forgotten. Like even just within the Pixar canon and the characters that are like often.

[David Ehrlich]

Mo was in line to replace Tim Cook at Apple.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

I think he was one of the three.

[Griffin Newman]

I think he should have run that in the.

[David Ehrlich]

There's a lot of politics. You know, Mo doesn't always. You know, he's tough to the big personality mountain.

[Griffin Newman]

I like that. The way he says his name has all this wind up to it. Like Wally. It's effort of like Wally and like Eve can get out quickly. And Mo, it's.

[Ben Hosley]

He's sufficient.

[David Ehrlich]

Just want to clean so bad.

[Griffin Newman]

That's all he want to do.

[David Ehrlich]

You just want to clean.

[David Sims]

Okay. So Wally is chasing after Eve.

[Griffin Newman]

We get to the roadway. Yes.

[David Sims]

And we see another aberration, which is that we're seeing the humans. They're, you know, laying on these little beds.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Sims]

And.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. They're in these like chairs.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Chair bed.

[David Sims]

Which I'm assuming there's a toilet built into it.

[David Ehrlich]

I think.

[Griffin Newman]

I think.

[David Ehrlich]

No assumption necessary. That's going on.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Wally runs into the first human.

[Griffin Newman]

This is where we start to get. Right. The Keatney thing of. Can Wally just start to throw things a little bit off. Out of whack. Right.

[David Ehrlich]

He.

[Griffin Newman]

The amount of dirt he introduces in the ecosystem makes. Makes Mo jump the line. Him chasing after Eve knocks Jon off of his axis. He's looking away from the screen for a second. He makes the introduction. And I. I think it's a beautiful moment of Wally introducing himself and John being like, John. Like, he's out of habit of needing

[David Sims]

to give, but he probably hasn't done it.

[Griffin Newman]

He knows what his name is, but he's sort of like, what am I? What do I do here?

[Ben Hosley]

When was the last time he met a new person or a new anything?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

But I. I do need to give a shout out to the brain computer that I will never be able to look at without thinking of the brain bug from Starship Troopers. The secretary.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

With the little thing. And. And I love that we don't really go back to that guy, but it's. I. I say guy, but the same thing of, like, Wally waving makes them sort of look at their own articulation point and be like, can I express an emotion?

[David Ehrlich]

There's. Go for the gopher.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, those.

[Griffin Newman]

That's. They're like, they are legion.

[David Sims]

But.

[David Ehrlich]

But there's the first mate one. That's the one that, like, tries to bid the plant.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, they suck. They're cops.

[David Ehrlich]

They're. Them.

[Griffin Newman]

They're little dwee trying to think of other Wally robots. The. The painting one is named Van Gogh.

[David Ehrlich]

All right. That's a little too cute.

[Griffin Newman]

It's really good. But then you have the beautician bots. You have the boxing robot.

[David Sims]

That's supposed to be the bot rules. I don't know what his job would be.

[Griffin Newman]

No, the idea is that he's for, like, physical training. He probably has not been used in a while. Yeah, he's supposed to exercise bot that, like, he's like.

[Ben Hosley]

He's the vision pro of the ship.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He's your coach. And you have the defibrillator bots. You have the vacuum cleaner bot one this year that also has allergies.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, I'm just like. There is an incredible amount of entries on the Pixar Wiki. There's a golf bot called Birdie.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, sure. You see? Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

You see his own short film.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

There's also bird, comma, bright Brad, who made a lot of movies.

[Griffin Newman]

He did. It's.

[David Sims]

Thank you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Thank you for acknowledging that.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

What is Bernie? Bernie's like a welder. Right?

[Griffin Newman]

Bernie's a welder on the outside of the ship who gets locked outside. And it's sort of a blackout gag of like, what's this guy gonna do? And Angus McLean pitched like, what if there was a subplot of him trying to get back into the building? And Stan was like, we don't have room for this in the movie. But like, I think that's a good short idea. And this was the era where there were enough shorts being commissioned as developmental to play in front of movies. But they also always wanted a short on the home video release.

[David Ehrlich]

You had your Jack Jack Attack. You had your Bernie, you had your Mike's new car.

[Griffin Newman]

The Bernie is really good.

[David Ehrlich]

They're often good. I always worry, I always thought with those, like wondered with those like, yeah, is it annoying at Pixar where it's like, hey, you got the sort of cute spin off versus the original short. Like I feel like more people might watch it, but it's, you know, in the shadow. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

It's a little bit of a double edged sword.

[David Ehrlich]

My daughter's obsession with Jackson Jack Jack Attack was very intense.

[Griffin Newman]

They basically fall off a cliff right after this.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Because Jack Jack Attack was directed by bird.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, Birds involved.

[Ben Hosley]

But a lot of these things are gifts to parents, especially in the streaming era, whose kids are obsessed with these movies. And instead of watching Frozen 2 for the 97th time, you can watch Frozen Fever or Olaf's Snow event, whatever. The not a huge.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, that one that played before Poco, that started a mutiny.

[David Ehrlich]

It's like 40 minutes long.

[Griffin Newman]

It was insane. Insane. But the one stars Olaf, the one on up, they don't even fully animate. Yeah, it's like on the disc as like story reels where they were like, yeah, we ran out of time money on this one.

[Ben Hosley]

But I find shorts before now like bringing kids to a movie. A short before a movie is very, very anxiety inducing for me because there is a narrow window where the kids attention will be locked in enough to the movie and the candy won't fry

[David Ehrlich]

their brain Dropped it are very different.

[Griffin Newman]

I think Elemental was the last.

[David Ehrlich]

Or your anxiety is too high.

[Ben Hosley]

I would say wait until Bebop and Rocksteady are a little bit older and exerting that boy energy. All of you.

[David Ehrlich]

It is very possible I am in for hell.

[Griffin Newman]

What I placed on your desk, David, in the little tray. You know how you always struggle to remember which one's Bebop and which one's Rocksteady? I gave you a little study guide that has a photo on one side and the name on the back.

[David Ehrlich]

Bebop as I think I've told you, the toys are still in separate Crips. Bebop has Bebop. Rocksteady has Rocksteady. But at the start of every morning, Bebop demands both.

[Griffin Newman]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

Like, he points, you know, and like I give him both. And then he plops in my lap and holds them. Feels great.

[Griffin Newman]

And what does Rocksteady do during that?

[David Ehrlich]

He's still drinking his bottle. My Bebop drinks his bottle. Like, done. You know, which is his energy, generally. Whereas Rocksteady's a little bit more like. I shall pause. You know, sometimes I don't want to drink.

[Ben Hosley]

Is not going to be a big fan of short films before film is

[David Ehrlich]

the one I have my eye on. Reattention.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got some bruiser energy, too. Yeah, yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

You post everything.

[Griffin Newman]

A very funny picture of Rocksteady reading a book the other day.

[David Ehrlich]

He's so.

[Griffin Newman]

He looks like a little intellectual.

[David Ehrlich]

I mean, that's just what his. Rocksteady likes to find a corner. He likes to find, like, an egress. You know what I mean? Mean, like, if there's a part of the room that he can kind of wedge himself into, that's where he wants to be.

[Griffin Newman]

And then he had him drivers. The wall.

[David Ehrlich]

No, no, no, no. I'm saying, like, he. Then he picks up his book. Whereas Bebop likes to just like, walk around and throw and.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Stack things and, you know, put things in. Other things. You know, classic baby stuff.

[Griffin Newman]

My crazy children. Other robots is the flashlight. There's the umbrella. I mean, there. There's so many of them. Them.

[David Sims]

There's the makeup robot.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. But what I like is that I. It feels like one of the things that's activating all these robots is that they're barely kind of engaged with anymore. There's something about. Much like Wally, they're forced to do a routine behavior over and over again without even engagement. Like when you see the golfing robot and it's. They're watching the screen rather than watching the bot itself.

[David Ehrlich]

Elf. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. Everyone's. It's not like they're depressed. They're just in a daze.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. And Captain McRae is the one who's sort of like half in.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes. He is the one whose brain has to be the most awake, even though it's only a little awake.

[Griffin Newman]

He doesn't.

[David Ehrlich]

He does have to do, like, talk

[Griffin Newman]

to other people, but he needs to perform. He needs to get on a zoom and do the announcement.

[David Ehrlich]

Like you're getting a new cup this week or whatever. You know, whatever your merch is. Yeah, right.

[Griffin Newman]

His brain's still a little bit active and he thinks of himself as more engaged than the rest.

[Ben Hosley]

He's the only thing, only person who has even an illusion of responsibility. Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

Even though at this point it's like, to what end? Otto doesn't even wake him up.

[Ben Hosley]

No, no. I mean, he does the morning announcements. It's his only joy.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. And the idea of switching from day to night, which no one even notices.

[David Sims]

Like, he oversleeps and then sets the time back to morning so that he can do the morning announcement.

[David Ehrlich]

It's his only thing he gets to do. He loves to do it.

[Griffin Newman]

He.

[David Ehrlich]

He is sleepy King. He's a good boy. Obviously, his big triumph is walking. And to me, it's another just triumph of physical animation. As good as the robot stuff. Yeah. Is like, making his walking, like, compelling, you know, he's like, okay, I gotta actually get on my feet and walk.

[David Sims]

It's so funny that the uniform they made, it's just like one size.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[David Sims]

And so it's just become. Yeah, exactly.

[Ben Hosley]

Exactly. Yeah. Do you think, like, children immediately understand Thus Spoke Zarathustra as like. Yes. This is, of course, the music you play when someone is evolving that it's like so hardwired into our DNA at this point.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's like, you know, it's like the. Oh, this is what you play when someone's graduating. This is what you play when someone's getting dramatic music. Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

They should play to graduation.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah,

[Ben Hosley]

yeah, yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

But I like that it is this sort of reactivation of curiosity that drives him.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, it's the. Yeah. The machines becoming more like humans. The humans have already become machines. But then the humans then have to. They're reactivated into their humanity by their machines.

[David Sims]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

The two prong thing of all these qualities. Eva showing up with a specimen and he's like, wait, specimen? Right. That's what I'm supposed to be waiting for. But it's been so long that it's felt like it could even happen. I don't even know how to react to that. This his moment when Otto hands him the, like, guidebook and he lifts up the one page and it's like, wow, what do you.

[Ben Hosley]

Look at that, Right?

[David Sims]

I think he speaks to it at first.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

That's pretty, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Right. He talks into it like a tablet.

[Ben Hosley]

But I do think it's always a morbid line for me when Fred Willard says that, like, oh, just a few laps around the jogging track and your Bodies will be right as rain again. It's like, I think in reality when they go back down to Earth's gravity. Gravity. They. They are gonna be blobs. They are. They're not going to be able to.

[David Ehrlich]

It is hard society. It's hard to imagine quite what their life will be.

[Griffin Newman]

You know. This is why they put in the end credits sequence. Because when they did the test screening of the almost finished movie, the first note everyone got back is like, well, I don't think they survive.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Don't they just die?

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

And they were like, we have to like put something on that tells them like they're gonna do the work.

[David Ehrlich]

They'll figure it out. Yeah.

[David Sims]

And that's basically the crazy credit.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

The cute like over the. Is it Peter Gabriel?

[Griffin Newman]

It's Peter Gabriel.

[David Ehrlich]

Cuz.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the year. This is. This is Slum Dog.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm going Slum Dog.

[Griffin Newman]

Giant ho beats this for best original song.

[David Sims]

I have a logic question. We see babies now.

[David Ehrlich]

I think there's. This is a crass question. There's some harvesting going on. I think this is an artificial situation.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay.

[David Sims]

Because I was going to say how do they.

[David Ehrlich]

How are they extracting these things? I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

But in. Or they just test tubing. Who knows.

[David Sims]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Are they Jeffrey Tubin?

[David Sims]

Because we see the relationship.

[David Ehrlich]

They are on zoom once in a while.

[Griffin Newman]

They're on zoom all the time. They might actually have to tube. What's the last time someone didn't tube in?

[David Sims]

Because we see the relationship with the two humans.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

I don't remember the character's name.

[Griffin Newman]

It's John and Mary, I think.

[David Ehrlich]

But it's clearly like voiced by Kathy

[David Sims]

and people haven't touched one another.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Sims]

The act of. Of them just making skin contact, it

[Ben Hosley]

would be like the elevator and old boy. They just like instantly eject.

[David Ehrlich]

It is funny. They're like, okay, let's nominate two songs from Slung Dog, one song from Wally. I think we're done.

[Griffin Newman]

Where they couldn't even care to nominate five.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. They're were like, yeah, you know what? I think that covers the songs of 2018.

[Ben Hosley]

Warren didn't have something Diane Warren should

[David Ehrlich]

have like written a FROST Nixon song.

[Griffin Newman]

Was 06 the year where Dream Girls has three out of the five song nominations. And then they're like, what are we doing here? And then I think they sort of went.

[David Ehrlich]

I think they went to a sort of like it can be up to five, but it can be smaller, it can be lower.

[Griffin Newman]

And no movie can get more than Dream Girls.

[David Ehrlich]

Did get three.

[Ben Hosley]

I wrote an article at some point, changed the book about Diane Warren. The score. The screw. The scourge score of. Of Oscar season. And I saw. I don't use Facebook anymore. But I got an email that said, diane Warren has sent you a message. And I was too afraid to look at it for an entire calendar year. And then finally, after she lost another Oscar, I was like, I'll just check what it was. And it was just a smiley face.

[David Ehrlich]

It just is so funny.

[Griffin Newman]

We need to rip off that fucking

[David Ehrlich]

band and give her an award. But she has to stop writing songs for movies that are like Diane Warren. The Diane Warren series where she wrote

[Ben Hosley]

a song for a documentary about how she always loses.

[David Ehrlich]

Sometimes you lose and people are just like, we're not giving this to you. I'm sorry. Like famous people write songs.

[Griffin Newman]

Sometimes you like David Mimes holding a microphone while he was singing that even though he is sitting in front of a microphone.

[Ben Hosley]

Documentary. The documentary about her. I mean, she does. She. She does.

[David Ehrlich]

She's written a lot of great songs.

[Ben Hosley]

Identify as having. As she is on the spectrum. I don't want to be overly harsh, but, like, she is so embittered. Even when she lost to like, like Billy Eilish, like Lady Gaga for Star Is Born, which was like, she was never going to lose.

[David Ehrlich]

You're not winning this year.

[Ben Hosley]

She also wrote a star picks up her and walks home. Right.

[Griffin Newman]

The problem is that there were so many years where it felt like this category was so irrelevant, where people were like, you just eliminate it from the telecast entire. And we should have given it to her one of those years.

[David Ehrlich]

Now I want to find it. I want to find. When do we give it to.

[Griffin Newman]

The last 10 years has been like, songs that people actually know, written by giant pop stars. She's not gonna beat her chances.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm just gonna give you some of her losses. Her first nomination was for Nothing's Gonna Stop Us now for Mannequin, an incredible

[Griffin Newman]

song what beats her Time of My

[David Ehrlich]

Life from Dirty Dancing. You're not beating that.

[Griffin Newman]

No, but you're like, in any other

[David Ehrlich]

year, maybe, but I think that's a like. Okay, here's when she should have won. It's her second, although I wouldn't give it to her. But her second nomination is for because youe Loved Me.

[David Sims]

Oh.

[David Ehrlich]

Beautifully sung by Celine Dion from the forgotten film up close and Personal. It loses to you Must Love Me from Evita, which is ass.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Might as well be called ass.

[Griffin Newman]

That should have been her win. And we could have Avoided a lot

[David Ehrlich]

of the correct winner. There is that thing you do.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Which is better.

[Griffin Newman]

And was nominated.

[David Ehrlich]

And was nominated. Yeah. But if they give it to Warren that's still better than the stupid.

[Griffin Newman]

So that's nomination to nomination three is

[David Ehrlich]

how do I live from Con Air. A banger.

[Griffin Newman]

Great.

[David Ehrlich]

Hilarious that it's from Con Air. But a banger.

[Griffin Newman]

What Pizza.

[David Ehrlich]

My heart will go off. Yeah. You're not winning.

[Griffin Newman]

Break.

[David Ehrlich]

You're not going to win.

[Griffin Newman]

Then the year after that is don't want to miss a thing.

[David Ehrlich]

So the next year she has I don't want to miss a thing for Armageddon. Beautifully sung by Aerosmith. There she loses to when you believe by the Prince of Egypt. I think we could have given it to her there.

[Griffin Newman]

I think that's also a good point.

[David Ehrlich]

I don't really like. Right. I got pretty sick of it. But like I don't think there's a huge problem. Skipping fucking when you believe.

[Ben Hosley]

There is definitely an element of continued injustice that has fueled her the next

[David Ehrlich]

year she has what's it called? Music of my Heart from Music of the Heart. Well that's.

[Ben Hosley]

She's starting to get desperate.

[David Ehrlich]

That loses to youo'll be in my heart from Tarzan. And that's obviously Blame Ken Canada.

[Griffin Newman]

That's an in sync Gloria Estefan song. I remember NSYNC performing at the Oscar.

[David Ehrlich]

I I definitely remember Gloria.

[Ben Hosley]

Blame Canada is my winner. But you'll be in my heart.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Talking about that's the when she loved me from Toy Story two year. That's what should have won McLaughlin and Newman. Now I'm gonna shoot you in the head.

[David Ehrlich]

Don't do that now the next. Then her next nom is for There you'll be from Pearl Harbor. A terrible movie with. It's a. It's regular Diane Warren.

[Griffin Newman]

It's diet. What's the fucking Con Air song? I'm already forgetting how to.

[David Ehrlich]

How do I look.

[Griffin Newman]

It's very similar. Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah it is. It loses to another situation of the Oscars giving someone their. Their much delayed award. Randy Newman for if I have you. Right. So. So they had to give it to Newman. Then 13 year draft out. That's Warren vanishes. Because I feel like the kind of work she did was no longer needed.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. But those are the years where she could have eked out a win. Hollywood.

[Ben Hosley]

She was the hero we wanted. Not the one we deserved. But not the one we deserved.

[Griffin Newman]

Is it the sexual assault on campus movie?

[David Ehrlich]

Is that in between that the hunting grounds and Pearl harbor is her song from beyond the lights. Grateful.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Which is pretty good. And that loses to Glory from Selma. So she could have won there too.

[David Sims]

Glory.

[Ben Hosley]

Glory is strong.

[David Ehrlich]

It's fine.

[Griffin Newman]

Glory.

[Ben Hosley]

Strong.

[David Ehrlich]

It did make Chris Pine cry.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's also remember that year was the whole thing where Selma only got two Oscar nominations.

[David Ehrlich]

And that's the only Selma was like.

[Griffin Newman]

If we don't give Selma the Oscar win, we look like she definitely could

[David Ehrlich]

have won for the the documentary about sexual assault with Lady Gaga song and Joe Biden to you.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Because Writing on the Wall from Spectre 1.

[Griffin Newman]

A song that sucks. Another loser.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. Terrible.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the same.

[Ben Hosley]

Especially given the one that we eventually heard the song that Radiohead wrote.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

It's incredible.

[David Ehrlich]

So, like, I do feel into that

[Griffin Newman]

night, everyone thought she was finally going to win. And the fact that Joe Biden was on stage presenting the song with Lady Gaga, it was like, this feels like a moment.

[David Ehrlich]

And then they were like, you know, whatever. Since then it's been like, stop it. Because, like, the nominations have been full for Marshall RBG breakthrough the Life Ahead, which was like an Italian movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Breakthrough Breakthrough was a Chrissy Mets.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

She's like, stuck under the ice.

[Griffin Newman]

Lucas, a kid.

[David Ehrlich]

I don't know.

[Griffin Newman]

They pray a kid. Back to warmth. That's truly what that movie, like, based

[David Ehrlich]

on these movies you've never heard of the Life Ahead Four Good Days. Days, which is the like Mila Kunis, heroin addict.

[Griffin Newman]

David, why are you reading off my Spotify rap?

[David Ehrlich]

Then in 2022, the Oscars are like, here's an honorary award. Stop it. She gets four more nominations after that.

[Ben Hosley]

Tell it like a woman.

[David Ehrlich]

Flamin Hot.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

She got nominated for the Cheeto movie.

[David Sims]

What's the song?

[David Ehrlich]

It's called the Fire Inside Jesus. Is that.

[Griffin Newman]

Is that the year that Billie Eilish beats her for the second time?

[David Ehrlich]

I mean, I don't think she was ever going to win, but it does. Yes. Eilish wins for Barbie. That's the year that I'm just. Ken should win. Yes. And instead to the Eilish song.

[Griffin Newman]

But the Dua song wasn't even nominated.

[David Ehrlich]

She's too hot for the Oscars.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay, well, they famously never give Oscars to hot people.

[David Ehrlich]

The six, triple eight. And then, yes, last year she was nominated for the movie Diane Warren. Relentless and relentless. She is. We cannot deny this.

[Griffin Newman]

And I just like that it wasn't even considered to give it to her. You felt like everyone who wrote her in on the nomination ballot put paral. But I'm not giving her the wig

[David Ehrlich]

in the Golden Year.

[David Sims]

Yes.

[Ben Hosley]

All right.

[David Sims]

Wally.

[Griffin Newman]

Wally, I. I would just to end this tangent to close this loop. What do you think she would need to do to win? Like if.

[David Ehrlich]

If I think write a well like regarded song from a movie that isn't

[Griffin Newman]

like Diane, you're not going to rope a dope us into giving you a

[David Ehrlich]

competitive when we're not going to be shamed by you. Like we stopped being embarrassed at nom 10 and you're like nom 24.

[Ben Hosley]

Like exactly as you were alluding to earlier. Now it is also not just for the end credits, but baked into the meat of movies nowadays. Like very strong original songs by major artists. And I think that has never been so difficult.

[David Ehrlich]

It's come back stuff like golden. You're like right. Like you're not. This is not a kitty category. I mean like these are right big pop songs make it.

[Ben Hosley]

And the days when she was writing songs that could compete with Golden. They existed but they are.

[David Ehrlich]

It is so funny that they were like conair. Okay. It's like a really violent R rated movie about like cons on an airplane. Like do think we need a just this ballad.

[Griffin Newman]

This is the era I miss. Which is what I refer to even though often this was not the proper title. Blank, blank, blank. Parenthetical love any like action movie or disaster movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Blade Runner I think is famously the

[Griffin Newman]

the one I always, always show people because it feels like this was too late for this to be happening. It feels like an aberration that snuck through and I'm constantly pointing at and saying like, can we bring this back? Is Adam Lambert's time from Miracles Love theme From Roland Emer 2012 which has a music video of him like all decked out in leather and spikes walking through the wreckage over like shots of John Cusack driving a limo over like the fucking Pacific Rim.

[David Ehrlich]

My friend.

[Griffin Newman]

I watched this video once a month.

[David Ehrlich]

My friend Carolyn. Never seen it about this day. I watched it recently rewatched Independence Day. It's kind of crazy how in that movie the first lady dies. Like right. Like she dies. She's returned to Area 51 and she's like, goodbye wife and sorry husband and daughter. And they're like five minutes later. Never mentioned. Everyone's like high fiving and she like kill America. Like she says, happy Independence Day. Daddy's like, yeah, happy Independence Day to you. Like, they're just like. I mean it's already a movie where like no one sits down and it's like, I think a billion people are dead.

[Griffin Newman]

Sure.

[David Ehrlich]

Like, they are just booming cities one by one.

[Griffin Newman]

The question is, like, should Diane Warren have hitched her wagon to Feige and gone? Like, every Marvel movie needs a love song sung by, like, a Groban.

[David Ehrlich]

The Groban sounds like a robot in wall.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, original piece of music.

[David Ehrlich]

I am the gro bin.

[Ben Hosley]

The mcu. Other than just the theme song itself,

[Griffin Newman]

there are the Menken songs in Captain America, the First Avenger that are fun, that I actually think should have been nominated but get cut down a little bit in the film.

[David Ehrlich]

Did they not nominate one of them? The Star Spangled Man? I think they didn't. Yeah, but that's.

[Griffin Newman]

That's the one time where they wrote. And then I guess the Hawkeye TV show has the fake.

[Ben Hosley]

Don't know what that is.

[Griffin Newman]

Captain America. Okay, Wally, Wally, Wally, Wally.

[David Sims]

Okay, so the plant get taken.

[Griffin Newman]

The plant gets taken. Take him.

[David Sims]

Eve is deemed defective.

[Ben Hosley]

Well, you have.

[Griffin Newman]

She's brought up. He's like, oh, my God. Plant life chest opens up. Nothing in there. What the. We the audience also go, what the. It's another good Stanton move where he originally had the audience see auto clock that Eve had the plant and organize hiding it. It's another deleted scene that you can see in storyboard form. And he was like, A, I think we need to stay with Wally's perspective until basically he starts to get crushed. And B, the audience is gonna follow you and be. They're gonna lean in on the intrigue of genuinely, where did the plant go? It helps us that we can't figure out what happened.

[David Ehrlich]

It's classic Pixar. You know, Toy Story 2. Them looking for the bag.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Monsters, Inc. Obviously. Like the door chase. Right. It's a good way to end a Pixar movie. I know it became schematic for them, but, like, it's good.

[Griffin Newman]

It feels like a magic trick too, where it's like we've been watching Eve this whole time. Her chest has been closed. Where the did the plant go? And that's, of course, what Captain McCrae says verbatim. Where the did the plant.

[Ben Hosley]

Every magic trick has three parts. And the second one is Wally.

[Griffin Newman]

Correct.

[Ben Hosley]

They throw the pl. It's a great shot of Wally poking his head out of the tube.

[Griffin Newman]

Eve's defective. They put. They put the red kind of like cable lock thing on her. They put. Yeah, it's like the boot. Boot and send her down. And Wally's chasing after. We meet the other reject bots

[David Ehrlich]

and, you know, what do they call it? Rogue robots. Also fun. You Know island of Misfit, Toy Boys,

[David Sims]

Cuckoo's Nests, kind of mental hospital vibes.

[Ben Hosley]

Wally.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, exactly right.

[Ben Hosley]

The weirdos plaster behind him in slow motion and they all run rampant through the hallways of the Axiom.

[David Ehrlich]

Fun.

[Ben Hosley]

And then eventually, at some point, they wind up. Wind up. Oh, he winds up in the escape pod.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, they're wanted. And all of those. Those aren't the gophers, but those sort of like big screen guard bots have taken the photo that now everyone's waking up a little bit by the danger of our robots turning on us. Which is another example of Wally starting to create the ripples that affect everyone.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. The whole system runs on everyone behaving like it does not run if the robots have their own idea and something's.

[Griffin Newman]

That's just alarming enough to break everyone out of the trance. But I guess basically, in running away and hiding out from the guards, they see the gopher trying to eject the plant. The gopher's got the plant in his tummy and he puts it in the escape pod and. And Wally wants to go after it. What were you going to say?

[David Ehrlich]

I just. That's the idea that I love of, like this.

[Griffin Newman]

He.

[David Ehrlich]

He's been infected with consciousness, right? And, like, he brings consciousness back to all these people who've lost it.

[Ben Hosley]

Like.

[David Ehrlich]

Like, it's not just the robots coming to life, it's everyone coming to life. That's why I love this movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes, I. I agree with you. And that's why. Yes, everything on the Axiom's important.

[David Ehrlich]

I think when I was 22 and I saw this movie in theaters and was so hyped for it and was then, like, probably mad that it was not like a Philip K. Dick style gonzo depressing fable of, you know, like, I was like, oh, I don't like all the kind of farsy kid shit at the end. Like, boring. And now I just watch that. I'm like, that's the point of the movie as much as anything else. And it's so funny. Like, like. And it's so fun to watch with a kid who loves all the antics. Of course.

[Griffin Newman]

Sorry, I was just pulling up my iPad. But that's the other part of it is she's leading him to the escape pod because she wants Wally to leave.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

That she's actually fully angry at him.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Is like the. Are you doing here? The plant's gone.

[David Sims]

It made. It made Eve look bad.

[Griffin Newman]

This is your fault. Yeah, I got this stupid fucking thing plugged into my head. Now I'm on like all the wanted screens. And in trying to get him to go into the escape podcast pod, they then see the gopher show up, hide in the shadows, put the plant in there. And Wally gets stuck in the escape pod trying to save the plant, which she then thinks explodes. You see a moment little bit of

[Ben Hosley]

Wally being all manic in the porthole, but he's like about to explode. He's like.

[Griffin Newman]

And the parachute coming out, like all the crazy gag. And then the no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no of Eve actually she does care. She doesn't want him to die guy. And then like one of ten Chekov gun moves this movie has is like.

[David Ehrlich]

Oh right.

[Griffin Newman]

We saw him learn how to use the fire extinguisher on Earth. He knows how to use this. He can propel himself. They start dancing. Define dancing. Right. Because Captain McCrae has also already now watched Eve's camera and he's like the. Is this place Earth?

[David Ehrlich]

Not the cute paradise of my storybook.

[Griffin Newman]

Trees, water.

[Ben Hosley]

It's basically the same plot as under the Skin, I guess of like a creature becoming increasingly humanized. You know, in this case, not to their detriment.

[Griffin Newman]

And Captain McCrae getting obsessively falling down a Wikipedia rabbit hole basically.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. I guess it's important to remember re them restoring the planet. They do have the right robots and the robots will be helpful. Now where are they going to put all the cube garbage and stuff? I don't know. It does feel like that's got to go somewhere.

[David Sims]

Well, I. My thing is send it into space,

[David Ehrlich]

put it on the accident.

[David Sims]

That was probably the way they could have resolved the problem in the first place. Instead of building a ship to get humans to leave the planet, fill the ship with garbage and send it out.

[Ben Hosley]

Like the low orbit anyway is so cluttered with satellites. Thanks to Elon Musk. Thanks to Elon know that it's. It's like they can't even. It's already their backyard is full of junk. But I wonder if the robots, like the character robots, are not going to want to do their functions because they have now discovered love and the joys of life and whatnot. And they're gonna have to rely on the wall A's and sure, but etc.

[Griffin Newman]

In the end credits, the way that like the robots are helping with the efforts, the way their programming can be reapplied to making the farming and such. Yeah, yeah, they're gonna make a pizza.

[Ben Hosley]

But like said, I feel bad asking Wally to like go make take out my trash for Me or something. Like, he's got stuff to do. He's got a life of his own.

[Griffin Newman]

He's got dates. He's really got to put the work in on this relationship if it's ever going to survive. You have the divine dancing thing, which I just think is so beautiful.

[Ben Hosley]

Beautiful.

[Griffin Newman]

Them creating their own, like, color trails and swirling between each.

[Ben Hosley]

Newman unleashed. Yeah, that. That is a really.

[Griffin Newman]

This is what it's. It's the argument that, like, it's. The other one, I think you could say is his best score only because it forces him to do a lot of stuff outside of his usual.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, he found it quite challenging, I think.

[Griffin Newman]

And then you have moments where it's like. And, Tommy, I'm gonna let you do your on this one.

[Ben Hosley]

He actually. The whole score was written by AI the movie, but he just said, like, write me a pretty score.

[Griffin Newman]

Was written on David. Written by David when he was sad about missing his mommy.

[David Ehrlich]

Oh, which David are we talking about?

[Ben Hosley]

The one from AI.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

His love is real, but he is not.

[David Ehrlich]

There's just too many Davids in the room right now. I'm sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

Too many Davids.

[David Ehrlich]

You see it Lost score, obviously, to Slumdog, I guess, which does have, you know, pretty iconic music.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. Thomas Noonan, another.

[David Ehrlich]

I keep saying Thomas Noonan's in this film.

[Griffin Newman]

Thomas Newman is another one who I think is at 20 nominations.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

He might only be behind Diane Warren.

[Ben Hosley]

Tom Noonan also had 29.

[David Ehrlich]

It really fits. Newman's, like, he's 15. N. His thing of, like, he's workman, like, you know, like, he's. He's pretty reliable.

[Griffin Newman]

He's distinctive. But I do think he's also taken for granted.

[David Ehrlich]

Granted, of late, he's been. But he's not taken for granted in that they, like, will nominate him for Passengers. That's the crazy where you're like, they clearly know him and recognize him.

[Griffin Newman]

You're noticing the Passenger score and you also refuse to give him a trophy.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, the connection between passengers and Wally is pronounced.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, I think they should.

[Ben Hosley]

That is the live action remake of Wally.

[David Ehrlich]

His 1917 score, which was his last nom. I listened to all the time the

[Ben Hosley]

film that was played that I was supposed to go see the night that you carry the snoop upstairs to my apartment When Lord, he was coming. I didn't get to see. I didn't. I was spared having to see 1917.

[David Ehrlich]

And I ended up. I had twins and I was like, well, I'm not gonna get two snooze, like. And Then like spongebob meme one months later, like the second snoo is being brought into my house. He should have won that year because he lost. A fucking joker.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Jesus.

[Griffin Newman]

But that, that was. I mean, it's like the Slumdog win, like even giving Jiho best song wasn't enough. Slumdog was such a juggernaut. He should have won for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he should have won for this.

[David Ehrlich]

Over. But this Slumduck moment. Yeah, obviously that is not my favorite film of 28.

[Griffin Newman]

No, it was rewarding.

[David Ehrlich]

A Bollywood luminary. And like his music, it does make sense.

[Griffin Newman]

It makes sense in the moment. Moment.

[David Ehrlich]

Part of the kind of energy of that movie is the music and all that. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And then we had the Nemo conversation which was like he would have won if Howard Shore had been disqualified. Which is kind of aberrant that they didn't do that. Well, they're usually so different.

[David Ehrlich]

But the score, that's. That's why the score branch is so hated. No, but I mean, yeah. Yes, yes, I made the case of. Of course the Return of the King score bangs hard. But also it is just. Yeah. Sometimes they're like, well, you can't have. We're not nominating Dune 2 because it's too, too similar to Dune 1.

[Ben Hosley]

And.

[David Ehrlich]

And I'm like, the Dune 2 score is completely different and you have allowed other sequel scores. Fucking Rise of Skywalker got a knob.

[Griffin Newman]

That same year they shortlisted Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. And I'm like, guys, what's the line?

[David Ehrlich]

Elfman. Let me show you what instrument he used for that one. A phone. Okay. He phoned it in.

[Griffin Newman]

Excuse me.

[David Ehrlich]

Okay, sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

He used a keyboard and he copy pasted Control V. Control V. Or it's Control V, Control C. Control V, whatever.

[Ben Hosley]

See, this is why you could never write. Write an Oscar nominated score.

[Griffin Newman]

V is print. That's the problem.

[David Sims]

That's why it had to be V. Wally and Eve. Wally gets back on from being out.

[David Ehrlich]

I know. It's another three hour app. What are we.

[David Sims]

Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know.

[David Ehrlich]

There's a point at which she gets the plant back.

[David Sims]

She's going to bring it back to the captain. She's.

[Griffin Newman]

They're starting.

[David Sims]

Tells Wally to stay behind.

[Griffin Newman]

They've also seen Gopher. So they're just like, something weird's going on here. We should be suspicious and cagey beyond the fact that everyone's looking for us now. Now. But she gets through. She brings the plant to Captain McKay, McCrae and also sees the video footage he's been watching of her on Earth, which now has gone into her hibernation period as it's like. Continues autoplaying. So she gets to watch Wally taking care of her when she wasn't conscious.

[Ben Hosley]

They don't really milk that moment as much as they could. And I'm not saying that's as a negative, but like there is a real opportunity there to sort of squeeze you by the heart.

[Griffin Newman]

They used some restraint.

[Ben Hosley]

They used. Yeah, it is restrained.

[Griffin Newman]

But within that footage is Wally showing her hello Dolly. Her like standby mode. Body directed at the screen when she wasn't paying attention before. So now she sees it for the first time. And you see her have the same hand realization. Activate fingers. Does the interlock blocking Activate fingers? Right. So now Eve kind of gets it, but she's already shunned him off. And Otto is going turbo trying to block Captain McRae's efforts.

[Ben Hosley]

Keep your Wreck it Ralph terminology out of this conversation.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm sorry.

[David Ehrlich]

Well, he's a good guy though. And yeah, let's not be saying me.

[Griffin Newman]

And then Auto reveals the. The second video from Fred Willard.

[Ben Hosley]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Looking like they just busted him at the tiki theater. Very disheveled, cold.

[Ben Hosley]

Was he wearing a life jacket?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, I didn't want to drown.

[David Ehrlich]

Jesus.

[Griffin Newman]

A lot of fluids in that place. This is our episode on a children's film. But the idea that it's like five years later and things have gotten so bad and he's just like, never mind. Abandoned.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. And just the secret protocol. You're. You're actually just going to stay out here forever.

[Griffin Newman]

And there's an argument that Otto is showcasing the same thing we're talking about with our other like, hero robots, which is like, Otto has clearly made a decision to hide this information from the humans. Otto has been serving all of these captains and at some point, following protocol.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean, that's. That's Otto's design.

[Griffin Newman]

But like, was protocol not giving the captain the complete information?

[Ben Hosley]

I think it was by any means necessary. Making sure that humans do not get back to. He was following his prime directive.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

You just could argue that Otto is starting to make like, creative decisions of

[Ben Hosley]

how to execute that maybe in the way that like a learning language model, a large language model, whatever the fuck they are, would. Would make what appear to be creative decisions to gas somebody up when they're asking ChatGPT for advice. I mean, I don't think it is actually thinking for itself in that it's irrational feeling is defeating its programming in the way as all the other robots in the film. I think that's what distinguishes Otto from all of them is that it is bound to. It's bound to its order and can't really think novelistically.

[Griffin Newman]

They both get knocked down the garbage chute, zapped by Otto. Wally gets crushed and smushed, but Eve sees that he has saved the plant and all is not lost.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Sims]

It's also a fun moment with Mo.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

Wally makes the introduction to Moe, who just uses as an opportunity to clean his hand off. But like that, Mo joins the team.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes.

[Griffin Newman]

The.

[David Sims]

The doors. When the. The garbage is being.

[Ben Hosley]

Mo takes a big risk. Yes. Yeah. And then Mo says, life can be messy.

[Griffin Newman]

I love the moments of Wally's sort of like, back hinge flipping out his hook that he had previously been using for the igloo. And you're like, that's a pretty perfect place to put Mo. We got our core three now. You know, like, the three of them. Like, Eve can carry Wally. Mo can be on Wally's back.

[Ben Hosley]

Back.

[Griffin Newman]

And we're just all business.

[Ben Hosley]

Now let's get. What I'm taking from this is that maybe my marriage needs a third.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

Achieve harmony. We need an Eve.

[Griffin Newman]

You need. Maybe the Eve is your couple's therapist.

[Ben Hosley]

I'll. I'll bring that up there this afternoon. I think the last time I was carrying both of couples therapy in the afternoon, which is not a daily occurrence, but sort of a coincidence.

[David Ehrlich]

But I might cancel it once because a blank checkup.

[Ben Hosley]

I think I did actually have to cancel because of sh. Schindler's List, which is.

[Griffin Newman]

Glad that didn't end your marriage.

[David Ehrlich]

I remember being quite abashed about that. Not about throwing a wallet at you.

[Griffin Newman]

It is a point of pride. That blank check has not yet knowingly ruined a marriage.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm sure it's happened because you don't know about it.

[David Ehrlich]

Right? Like, maybe someone just listened to us so much that the other person was like, you know what? I'm out of here. Like, enough already.

[Griffin Newman]

Anytime I meet a spouse, I apologize. People come up me like, hey, I'm sorry. I don't actually listen to the show. But, like, my. My partner is obsessed with it, so it's on all the time in the home. And I just go, like, I'm. I'm so sorry if this is not a thing you're opting into.

[Ben Hosley]

Could be worse. They could be really into Ice Age, the meltdown.

[Griffin Newman]

This is true, Wally.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

They're. They're just in mission mode now because Eve is just like, A. It's like her protective instinct is kicking in. Wally is close to death. His circuit board is fried.

[Ben Hosley]

Died.

[Griffin Newman]

There's no time to waste. He has, you know, in a slightly Christlike way, potentially sacrificed himself for the sins of humanity to try to save them.

[David Ehrlich]

But that always. I was watching the movie and I was like, he'll be okay. Like that would be too.

[Griffin Newman]

I had half a moment of Is Pixar gonna do it now?

[Ben Hosley]

I think future generations of people, once they repopulate the earth, should worship Wally.

[Griffin Newman]

They should.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Or at least the child.

[David Ehrlich]

This is a good movie.

[Griffin Newman]

But they've locked Captain McCrae up. Wally, even Mo are trying to find a way to get to the Lido deck because if they can put the plant in the whatever the hollow deck, it. The ship will autopilot itself. It will override, autopilot himself even and just go straight to it. And I just. Yeah. McCray just needing to give a. He's still trying to stay in the hover chair and do everything he can. But then you finally get to the breaking point. As you said, this excellent piece of animation of. Of I gotta walk. None of this is gonna happen if I don't make the effort to take the first step. Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

And it's such beautiful walking little blobby boy.

[David Sims]

I mean this is really when Wally sacrifices himself though. He gets. Not get. Gets crossed in the trash compactor. It's that Otto is trying to drop down the chamber where they're supposed to put the plant into.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Well, right. The first thing that happens is that Otto like shocks him which free fries his circuit bucket board and then now he's additionally physically crushed.

[Ben Hosley]

I like that they fool Otto with a drawing of a plant.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Because Auto's the projection. Yeah. And. And yeah. And it's just like the ripple effects of everyone that Wally has affected in some way or woken up now everyone is suddenly joined in the very Paddington esque.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Ben Hosley]

His way.

[Griffin Newman]

The. The sort of I know that guy thing where people are like, oh yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

He's like, hey, that's Wally. Go Wally window.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. In a. In a civilization where people have no social interactions, Wally is like their favorite thing they've ever met because it's the last time they had a feeling about anything. It's a smart choice that it's just hyperspeed and it's like once you get the boot in there, we're just going to go straight y. But then you have. What I find so emotionally affecting is Eve in that panic mode of like. I don't have a second to waste. How do I keep him alive? How do I save him? And going. Trying to, like, reconstitute with all the spare parts inside his little trash home. Blowing the hole in the ceiling to, like, light him up. And then that moment where you're like, are they going, fucking cuckoo's nest. Like, is he gone? And. And the long recalibration of the eyes readjusting. And then the satisfaction of the Drew Satisfying.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, I just. You can't end a pixel. Our movie that way.

[Ben Hosley]

Just picturing, like, Mo breaking out of the window and running away into space.

[Griffin Newman]

This movie felt so audacious that I was like, are all rules out the window? Can they get away with doing this? I didn't want it to happen, but

[Ben Hosley]

I gave him a big.

[Griffin Newman]

I felt a genuine tension from it.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, there's tension for sure, right?

[Griffin Newman]

And then Obviously, Toy Story 3 is, like, actively towing the line of that tension. Even more of like, are we going to do it, guys?

[David Ehrlich]

I don't like.

[Griffin Newman]

I know that's what you don't like,

[Ben Hosley]

but others do, so I don't find it credible at all.

[David Ehrlich]

It's not credible.

[Ben Hosley]

Never believe.

[David Ehrlich]

I just. I'm like, right? I'm like, you know, just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

[Griffin Newman]

I think it's a credible moment. And I think what's credible about is it's more about the acceptance of death than the fact that the threat is actually real.

[Ben Hosley]

I think you're dumb.

[David Ehrlich]

Toy Story movies.

[Griffin Newman]

That is exactly what I want for my Toy Story movies.

[David Ehrlich]

They're immortal. They can't die. It's part of. That's their curse, which is what I like about the Toy Story movies. Explores.

[Ben Hosley]

The only good thing About Toy Story 3 is that Totoro in it, that's.

[Griffin Newman]

You're, like, totally just toy free.

[David Ehrlich]

And potato, Potato Head turns into the

[Ben Hosley]

incinerator where it belongs.

[Griffin Newman]

You don't like Loto?

[Ben Hosley]

No, I do not.

[David Ehrlich]

Why would he like Loto?

[Griffin Newman]

No workplace. All he wants to do is just hug his.

[Ben Hosley]

Looks like he smells bad. I'm not into it.

[Griffin Newman]

Smells like strawberries.

[David Sims]

Anyway, we see a bunch of greenery, and it's nice to think that Wally played a big part in clearing all of the debris that enabled the plants to grow.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

You're like, even if. If they still have these giant trash towers to deal with, he did at least create open enough spaces that they can plant things and that work wasn't in vain.

[David Sims]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Griffin Newman]

And society rebuilds itself as depicted in the evolution of artistic styles and movements.

[David Sims]

And it's a great movie. Wally's my boy, man.

[Griffin Newman]

When you get to, like, fucking pointillist Wally and. And Eva under the tree, it's a great movie. I love this fucking movie. It is.

[Ben Hosley]

It hits the ending quickly. It's not abrupt, but it's very efficient. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

And the greatest tension at this point is just, can she save him? And if it takes too long to get home, then you don't believe there's any way to save him.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes, it is. My only reservation is that I think that the bit with the ship tipping over and all the babies sliding is thematically on point. But I always wished it were a little bit more viscerally satisfying after the. The 30 minutes of this, like, great Tati, like, scramble through the ship, which feels so balletic and fun. This feels a little clumsy, but maybe it's supposed. I don't know, just. I always wanted something that, like, pulled me in a little bit more at the end.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. This is one of the movies that broke the Academy Awards.

[David Ehrlich]

It is. Let's just briefly touch on. Right on the research here. There was some concern, like, you know, up, I feel like, is the bigger anxiety point. But they'd already had Ratatouille where they had some of the kind of like, is there, like, there's no merch?

[Griffin Newman]

Is this movie pretentious? And Ratatouille did well, but it was down.

[David Ehrlich]

Right.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a hit. But it. It was leggier. It was less front loaded, and it still ended up way below.

[Ben Hosley]

Wally doesn't even have. Have legs.

[Griffin Newman]

This is true. He's got treads. Wally was an uptick. But they definitely were worried about it and the marketing. I mean, we mentioned the Hidden City Cafe teaser, but I remember the super bowl ad for this movie was Buzz Lightyear and Woody watching the game. And Woody turns to Buzz and go, you hear about this Wally guy. And they were so freaked out by this movie that they were like, can we just remind you of our legacy and our track record and use that to buffer. Please trust us.

[David Ehrlich]

Movie also very expensive.

[Ben Hosley]

Is $180 million budget.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes. Very high. It opened to 63 domestic. It grossed 223 million.

[Griffin Newman]

223.

[David Ehrlich]

521. So it was below Ratatouille, which had been below the incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

It was below Ratatouille worldwide.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah. How did it play?

[Griffin Newman]

Ratatouille was 200 domestic. It went above Ratatouille.

[Ben Hosley]

Wally feels like a uniform.

[David Ehrlich]

Ratatouille weighed 623 worldwide. Worldwide, yeah. Cars also, obviously had been a disappointment to some extent on release. Although it had a long tail, merch wise, it won best film at Lafka, which is a big deal.

[Griffin Newman]

Big deal. There was a real feeling of, is it time to let this into the bigger conversation instead?

[David Ehrlich]

It does get six Oscar nominations. Screenplay, animated. You want to guess?

[Griffin Newman]

Screenplay, animated. It gets both sound categories correct and then score and song.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. So it's like six is a lot, but at the same time it is. You know, they're kind of in their category.

[Griffin Newman]

I mean, arguably the only two other nominations it could have realistically gone were picture and director. And it felt like they were on the bubble and it was a real conversation. And it felt like you were reading a lot of think pieces of like,

[David Ehrlich]

had there been 10 nominees, obviously it's a best picture nominee.

[Griffin Newman]

And that's what breaks the Oscars, you

[David Ehrlich]

know, becomes as Toy Story 3.

[Griffin Newman]

It's that this doesn't make it. Dark Knight doesn't make it. And I've always contended that Gran Torino not making it is the third one. Although, you know, Dark Knight and Wall E are a much bigger deal. But it's like, if we're getting like more elevated serious blockbusters, do we need a space to recognize these? If these animated movies are becoming this artistic, do we need a space to recognize these? Yeah, it drives them insane. Despite, as we said in our Slumdog Millionaire episode, Slumdog Millionaire was the highest grossing best picture nominee until Oppenheimer. They had a movie that was a genuine blockbuster crossover success. And they were so freaked out by the fact that they didn't show enough respect to Wally and Dark Knight that they. They go to 10 the next year and up becomes only the second animated film to ever be nominated for best picture in a 10. Toy Story 3 is the third. Has not been another one in 16 years.

[David Ehrlich]

I have it. Where do I have it on my 2008 list?

[Griffin Newman]

It's my number two.

[David Ehrlich]

What's your number one? Synec.

[Griffin Newman]

Synec.

[David Ehrlich]

Mine. Two?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

I have a 12. Maybe I should get it higher.

[Griffin Newman]

12.

[Ben Hosley]

Get the.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm going to throw my wallet at you. What do you have above it?

[David Ehrlich]

A lot of good movies. Think I'll get a little higher, though.

[Ben Hosley]

I really like what's above it. Name one.

[Griffin Newman]

Happy Go Lucky.

[David Ehrlich]

New York. Happy Go Lucky. I think I'm going to get it up to seven.

[Griffin Newman]

Here you have the reader.

[Ben Hosley]

What is that? What is it? Leapfrogging.

[David Ehrlich]

I'll tell you above it. I definitely have movies that like Synecy Happy, Go Lucky, Speed Race, Milk, Wendy and Lucy.

[Ben Hosley]

Milk.

[David Ehrlich]

These are big movies for me. Milk is the best.

[Griffin Newman]

I love these movies. They are lower down.

[David Ehrlich]

And then it's sort of in more like the Rachel getting married in Bruges. Hunger, Stepbrothers.

[Griffin Newman]

See, Rachel's really good. Rachel's may be my three or four.

[Ben Hosley]

Not a bad year for American film.

[David Ehrlich]

Good year.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[Ben Hosley]

Rachel getting married. Incredible.

[Griffin Newman]

But it's a terrible Oscar year.

[Ben Hosley]

I'll take very bad Oscars over Milk any day of the week.

[Griffin Newman]

You're like, we had good fucking options. And three of the best picture nominees are kind of wet blankets.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, of course. I mean, I think like, Frost Nixon is obviously that. Is that Frost Nixon contributes to the 10 best picture nominees as much as Dark Knight and Wallace.

[Griffin Newman]

Reader's the one that's egregious. But Frost Nixon is a little bit of like, are we just like auto nominating anything that feels like an Oscar movie reader?

[David Ehrlich]

You were like, I could find a few people who thought that was good.

[David Sims]

Right?

[David Ehrlich]

There was not one person on earth who was like, one of the best five movies of the year is Ron Howard.

[Griffin Newman]

It was also like, that play was really good.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, play's probably pretty good. Yeah.

[Griffin Newman]

That didn't really translate it well.

[David Ehrlich]

It translated poorly. I saw the play.

[Griffin Newman]

Let's give it eight Oscar nominations.

[David Ehrlich]

And it was like, you know, it felt like that. You know those moments where the like, like, green Book where the old Oscar voter's like, I know we're changing. I can't help it. Like, you know, like, one more time, please. You know, like Frost Nixon.

[Griffin Newman]

Wait, it's Slumdog. Frost Nixon. Reader Milk.

[David Ehrlich]

The Milk's so, so much better than those. And what's the. The fifth one?

[Griffin Newman]

What's the fifth one?

[David Ehrlich]

I'm forgetting getting Benjamin Button. And I like that movie a lot. But even that one is at the time, everyone's like, a little underwhelmed. It's a little tre. Clean, you know, like just.

[Griffin Newman]

And like, we're nominating that over Dark Knight and Wally, which actually kind of really hit the zeitgeist.

[Ben Hosley]

My son, who's never seen a minute of Benjamin Button, is fascinated by the premise. He's always like, what's that movie about the guy who's born to being 100 years old and ages backwards?

[Griffin Newman]

You maybe should show Asa Benjamin Button super cuts. Like, Best of Blobby. Like, I don't think he likes movie.

[Ben Hosley]

Can someone make a Benjamin Button super cut cut? Is it just Thirst would like, like Ben Affleck.

[Griffin Newman]

You would like Benjamin Button and the Revival tent.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

So box office game, right?

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah,

[David Ehrlich]

sorry. I'm just coordinating a little photo shoot maybe. Okay.

[Griffin Newman]

Coordinating a little photo.

[David Ehrlich]

I interviewed somebody and they, they're, they're

[Griffin Newman]

going to take pictures of you of

[David Ehrlich]

I should do that for any time. Just like me going like. And who interviewed him but David Sims here seen Can I paint you? I interviewed what's his name? Kane Parsons.

[Ben Hosley]

Yes. How's that movie? We'll all know by the time this comes out.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm quite fond of it especially all the parts where they are in the back rooms.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, cool. That's probably a good percentage of the movie.

[David Ehrlich]

But there was a. Yeah, sure. But there was a moment during our interview when he said yeah, no, I started to get into this stuff. Liminal heart and all that stuff my first year of high school which was the first year of COVID 2020. And I. It's just. You can hear it on the audio of our interview, right? The loud shotgun due to my.

[Griffin Newman]

You ate a bowl of bullet soup.

[David Ehrlich]

Where I was like oh, pardon me. Drink poison. Okay, so it's number one at the box office. Griffin. What's it opening against? Opening to a very surprising $50 million dollars. Wanted. I feel like wanted like massively over indexed because it was sort of the Angelina Jolie moment of like this is serious. Like she is a magnet.

[Ben Hosley]

The only thing I wanted was to never see that movie again. Am I right?

[David Ehrlich]

Movie is a little terrible. I will say terrible.

[Griffin Newman]

She is really good in it though.

[David Ehrlich]

I.

[Griffin Newman]

Because this is the changeling year which is a movie, you know, I don't like. And I always contended her for best supporting actress would have been a more deserving nomination and wanted over changeling for lead actress actress.

[David Ehrlich]

I, I, I think that's a bad take.

[Griffin Newman]

I don't like that movie and I think Jolie is really good.

[David Ehrlich]

I think she. She definitely like gives wanted some pep and she's doing her assignment. I'm a changeling defender.

[Griffin Newman]

Strange specific performance but maybe I need to re watch change.

[Ben Hosley]

Terrible movie. Never needs to be thought of again.

[Griffin Newman]

Wants itself wanted. I mean that guy.

[Ben Hosley]

I mean more Backman bent off. He's a product of Harry Knowles. It's just them gas up the. What was that? The Night Shift.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, whatever the it was movies in Night Watch.

[Ben Hosley]

Night Watch.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes, I wanted. I remember I haven't seen it since 2008 but yeah, every time it made a choice it made the loudest most of the wrong.

[Griffin Newman]

Well, they have loomers who weave tapestries that tell them where to bend bullets

[David Ehrlich]

when McAvoy creams Chris Pratt in the face with. With a. Right. With a keyboard. And then the words fuck you, but the teeth are filling in like the O's or like the, you know, like, come at your screen.

[Ben Hosley]

The most inspired visual choice in that film. Right, and that was in that movie,

[Griffin Newman]

Chris Pratt plays his coworker who comes.

[David Ehrlich]

He's like, it's. It's Chris Pratt in, like, sweaty, chubby mode.

[Ben Hosley]

Right? Back when he was in playing Office Workers.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but that movie. Yes, you're right. Massively overperformed.

[David Ehrlich]

It massively overperformed. Number three at the box office.

[David Sims]

Right.

[David Ehrlich]

These are all films I, like, saw alone in cinemas in my first year living in New York. Comedy TV adaptation.

[Griffin Newman]

It's the. It's the first Sex in the City movie, is it not?

[David Ehrlich]

You are correct, incorrect. That movie is at number nine, though.

[Griffin Newman]

Oh, okay. It's a older tv. It's an older. It's not the Honeymooners movie. It's an older. What's it opening to?

[David Ehrlich]

Well, it opened last week to 38 million. It's going to end up at 130 domestic.

[Griffin Newman]

It's to going. Get smart.

[David Ehrlich]

Get smart.

[Griffin Newman]

It was a hit.

[David Ehrlich]

Forgotten.

[Griffin Newman]

Forgotten. They kept threatening to make a sequel. And they were like, didn't you guys? Like this? And people were like, what?

[Ben Hosley]

There is, like, what? There is not an inch of pop culture that is not somewhat connected to Anne Hathaway over the last 30 years. She rocks. She's gonna. She's gonna have a very defining year this year. And we all recognize by defining, you

[David Ehrlich]

mean every single movie features.

[Ben Hosley]

Exactly.

[Griffin Newman]

Or having a arm wrestling match could work against her.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, I mean, in some senses, maybe,

[David Ehrlich]

but I think it just four or

[Griffin Newman]

three Zendaya's Got Dune Drama, Spider Man Odyssey, Euphoria Odyssey, and then Euphor.

[David Ehrlich]

Luckily, it seems like Euphoria season three is going to pass without anyone talking about.

[Ben Hosley]

I do think that this year will sort of cement in the public consciousness to an even greater degree than it had before that Anne Hathway is an institution.

[Griffin Newman]

Hathaway rules. I mean, hate.

[David Ehrlich]

We're very pro hay in this house.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

In this house, we respect Dan Hathaway. I worry this year will be too much Hathaway.

[Griffin Newman]

So it's Mother Mary, Devil Wears Prada, Odyssey, Verity House at the end of Oak Street. Is there a sixth one? I'm forgetting, but with the exception of

[Ben Hosley]

Verity and Devil Wears Prada, I think those movies have such different core audiences that I don't think it's going to

[Griffin Newman]

feel like it is a widespread. Sure. Is it just five or is there six?

[David Ehrlich]

I'm just seeing five. Although I could have sworn there's. There's a movie called alone at dawn 1. The Ron Howard movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Right. That's coming out next year. I think that.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. Doesn't have a date yet. Yeah, but that's the other one on her. I mean, my main concern is that Prada2 might like suck really bad.

[Ben Hosley]

I've heard that it is basically the same as the first one, but obviously diluted.

[Griffin Newman]

The first one's a masterpiece. I'm fine with it.

[David Ehrlich]

Right. If it's like a kind of like base hit, like, that's okay.

[Griffin Newman]

I was worried it was gonna be like, like me too. Super Mario Galaxy of Devil Wars. Prada where just happens.

[Ben Hosley]

It just starts point at the has been nice.

[David Ehrlich]

She goes like color corals and you're like, yay.

[Griffin Newman]

I. I really have been worried of like jangling keys with that.

[Ben Hosley]

I'm troubled by the implication of the trailer that she does not remember. And halfway. How advanced is her dimension? She worked for a long time.

[David Ehrlich]

No, she didn't. She worked for. For six months.

[Ben Hosley]

It was a memorable six months. Come on.

[David Ehrlich]

The joke for her is this was not memorable. I do think that trailer did make it seem like it was like a Men in Black 2 style memory.

[Griffin Newman]

That might be too difficult a bit to sell in the trailer.

[David Ehrlich]

Exactly. I get the idea that she's aloof and they're doing that joke, but to the point where you're like, hey, Joe Biden. Anyone know?

[Griffin Newman]

Yes. Is Kung Fu Panda still in the top five?

[David Ehrlich]

Kung Fu Panda, you have guessed correctly, is number four at the box office.

[Griffin Newman]

That's another one that overperformed. And there was a real arms race. So they ended up very close in terms of the final totals.

[David Ehrlich]

Sure, sure. Kung Fu Panda is fun. It's got a Kung Fu Panda in it.

[Griffin Newman]

Yes.

[David Ehrlich]

There you go.

[Griffin Newman]

But I think there was a little Mr. O. Did did.

[David Ehrlich]

He's there.

[Griffin Newman]

Pixar go to esoteric.

[David Ehrlich]

Sure.

[Griffin Newman]

Versus Kung Fu Pandas.

[Ben Hosley]

Right, right.

[David Ehrlich]

Pixar is like, ah, yes, the existential crisis. And Kung Fu Panda is like the panda's large yet. Does Kung Fu Panda.

[Ben Hosley]

The title explains the plot I've shared

[Griffin Newman]

so many times, but the urban legend. I have heard that when Jeffrey Katzenberg was pitched Kung Fu Panda, his first response was, I like all three. And that movie is the best executed version of Kung Fu Panda. I think when it came out, everyone's like. Oh, it's actually, like, good. But, you know, Wally was trying something very ambitious and they ended up at the exact same number. And Wally cost me.

[Ben Hosley]

You don't hear a lot of podcasts about Kung Fu Panda these days.

[Griffin Newman]

No. And there are four of them. They're four.

[David Ehrlich]

But right. Kung Fu Panda did endure, I guess, as. Right. Sequel fodder and all that as well. Number five at the box office is a film industry, a cinematic universe that's getting its start. This is here in 2008.

[Griffin Newman]

Is this Hulk? The Incredible Hulk? Hulk, yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. Bad movie.

[Griffin Newman]

Really bad.

[David Ehrlich]

But did introduce me to my favorite MCU character, Liv Tyler's Betty Ross. I finally got to see her one more time recently.

[Griffin Newman]

I love. When we're at. Can we quickly. If you want to salute our president.

[Ben Hosley]

There he is. Brighton Red. I thought you were going to say Tim Roth's Abomination, which is most Americans favorite MCU character.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Clearly the most delighted to be in those films. Having a great time, charming to everyone around.

[Griffin Newman]

You know what my favorite Betty Ross scene is?

[David Ehrlich]

Tell me.

[Griffin Newman]

It's tough to pick because she's got so many good moments in the mcu.

[David Ehrlich]

I can't guess because there's too many.

[Griffin Newman]

My personal favorite Betty Ross scene is when her human body walks into the raft to visit her incarcerated Red Hulk. Former president father. And her head is definitely the same as her human body. Both things were shot at the same time.

[David Ehrlich]

Union of a camera on a real

[Griffin Newman]

set next to Harrison Ford.

[David Ehrlich]

God, what if it turned out Joe Biden wasn't insane? Yeah. Wasn't sorry. You know, losing his mental faculties when said it was just suffering from red hog's disease. And that would have been.

[Ben Hosley]

It would answer some questions and raise.

[David Ehrlich]

Raise others. Yes. Number six was. Oh, a good film here. The Love Guru.

[Griffin Newman]

Wow. We covered a lot of these.

[David Ehrlich]

Covered a lot of these. Number seven, we've covered this one too with this very person. Indiana Jones. The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Number eight, another film we've covered. M. Night Shyamalan's the Happening. Number nine, a film we've yet to cover. Sex and the city. Number 10, a film we've yet to cover. I wonder if we will. The opportunity has kind of passed us by. You don't mess with the Zohan.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, that's. That's maybe top of the list of movies I used to argue are masterpieces that I am terrified to ever rewatch in my memory.

[David Ehrlich]

It is a movie that, you know, has a good heart. Like, it wants everyone to be friends Maybe it doesn't have the most textured view of the geopolitical situation.

[Griffin Newman]

2008, it felt like the politics were surprisingly good for the time for a movie.

[Ben Hosley]

I was going to say that movie is the moment when the Democratic leadership stopped aging. Yeah. It's been frozen in time. Right.

[David Ehrlich]

People still know Link Zohan today.

[Griffin Newman]

That movie might feel like a weapon of mass destruction.

[Ben Hosley]

Zoran, maybe.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah. You well, truly don't mess with the Zoran.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

That's all.

[Ben Hosley]

Not me. That's happened like three times.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, it happens.

[Ben Hosley]

I'll never learn.

[David Ehrlich]

We're done. We've been talking for so long. Wally is a very good movie and I think it's nice. And he's my good friend.

[Griffin Newman]

He's. He's really the best of us.

[David Ehrlich]

Yes. Now, next week on the show, we're going to meet another good friend, John Carter, a slightly less successful movie.

[Ben Hosley]

You have a Pulitzer Prize winning writer, Tony Kushmar.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but Michael Chabon is the co writer of.

[David Ehrlich]

Well, he was the co writer of some shit. I mean, God bless.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, but that was, this was a passion project. I mean, we'll get into all of it. It is. It is a fascinating movie. Movie. It, it arguably has become the shorthand. I think we were saying this, we were talking about this in Madison, Ben. That we were like, John Carter kind of took over the, like, you know, water world replaced Ishtar. Ishtar replaced Heaven's Gate. John Carter just is the thing that people.

[Ben Hosley]

Jonah Hex made a bid for it but couldn't compete.

[Griffin Newman]

No. And I think some of it just boils down to this movie costs this much and it's just called John Carter and I'm supposed to know what that.

[David Ehrlich]

That is.

[Griffin Newman]

We will talk about it next week. I'm very excited. It's a fascinating movie to. To look at now and pull apart 10 years later.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm, I'm excited to rewatch. I've only seen the one time.

[David Sims]

Erlich, thank you for being here.

[David Ehrlich]

Do you have anything you want to plug? Like.

[David Sims]

Done.

[David Ehrlich]

We are done.

[Ben Hosley]

Do I have anything I want to plug? I'm writing a book that's going to come out in like three years. So start.

[David Ehrlich]

I'm excited.

[Ben Hosley]

Start getting hyped. As of this recording, not written a single word. Yeah, but working on it.

[Griffin Newman]

I was going to joke you're finished, but you just want to leave the manuscript out in the sun for three. Three years. Yeah.

[Ben Hosley]

Wife to discover.

[David Sims]

Oh, I, I want to say I got an idea from Wally. There's a Twinkie that Wally feeds cockroach

[Griffin Newman]

Hal hangs out inside.

[David Sims]

I think I might start burying Twinkies with the jeans. Huh? Continue.

[Ben Hosley]

No, I mean, how can you. How can you say anything after that? It's a brilliant idea.

[Griffin Newman]

I'm also going to force you to plug fighting in the war room because your co hosts always get me mad when you don't do that.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, I mean, I guess if you want to listen to it, you can. I think its entire audience that listens to your show is already well aware.

[Griffin Newman]

100 best podcasts ever.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah, sure. Yeah, you can find me on the Internet and my name and the indiewire reviewing movies. By the time this comes out, I'll already have been to canon back and life will go on.

[David Ehrlich]

Excited for can.

[Ben Hosley]

Am I excited for can? Yeah. I mean, if you're not excited for can, what are you doing in this line of work? I said suppose. Yeah, I'm excited to hear if the Scorsese episode I nominated myself for, if I was ghosted by abject silence from David Sims, was rejection or just omission.

[Griffin Newman]

I want to.

[Ben Hosley]

We'll find out.

[Griffin Newman]

I just want to remind you that the episode you threw your hat in the ring for is basically a calendar year away because Scorsese is so long.

[Ben Hosley]

That's what I figured.

[Griffin Newman]

I didn't think it was going to

[Ben Hosley]

be stepping on any toes.

[Griffin Newman]

We're just not making decisions about those.

[David Ehrlich]

We're trying to keep things.

[Griffin Newman]

We're not giving you the silent treatment as much as it. Here. We'll say it on Mike. Your interest is noted.

[David Sims]

What?

[David Ehrlich]

I don't even remember.

[Griffin Newman]

I'll say it off Mike.

[David Ehrlich]

Fine. Great. Okay, let's be done. As always, our friend Wally.

[Griffin Newman]

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for John Carter. Over on our Patreon. We're finishing up Robocop.

[Ben Hosley]

Who you guys got for John Carter?

[Griffin Newman]

The great Matt singer?

[David Sims]

I'm looking now.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah, we're.

[Griffin Newman]

We're.

[David Ehrlich]

We're still in Robocop mode. I think it's. RoboCop 3 is next. Yeah, so we got plenty of Rubik.

[Griffin Newman]

If you enjoyed the Rubbit talk and you want more Rubbit talk, then go over and listen to us talk about rubber ninjas fighting Rubber cop. And as always, Eve's a babe.

[Ben Hosley]

State your name.

[Griffin Newman]

Asa.

[Ben Hosley]

Good name, Asa. Who is your favorite character on Big City Greens?

[Griffin Newman]

Cricket.

[Ben Hosley]

What do you like about Cricket?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, he's a rock class boy like me, and he's about the same year as old as me, but And I'm the big brother. But he's a little brother. It's kind of weird. He's kind of sticks.

[Ben Hosley]

What would you say if somebody asked you what Big City Greens is about?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, it's about. Excuse me.

[Ben Hosley]

It's about 22 minutes long.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, it's about 22 minutes long.

[Ben Hosley]

What's the show about? What happens? The family moves from the country.

[Griffin Newman]

Moves from the country to a big city. And they get all crying, all cry when they don't want to go. But before they think that they don't want to, they think that's going to be like a creepy mansion, like, across the door.

[David Ehrlich]

But.

[Griffin Newman]

But then Bill said, like that removed, that we're leaving the country and moving to big city.

[Ben Hosley]

And.

[Griffin Newman]

And they cry and they, like, cry all.

[Ben Hosley]

And why is Chip Whistler so mean to them?

[Griffin Newman]

Well, when they first won to Big City, Cricket, like, the Chip told Cricket something and then. And then Cricket kicked him in the leg. And then this all began.

[Ben Hosley]

And last question. What do you think of the movie movie Wall E?

[Griffin Newman]

What does that have to do.

[Ben Hosley]

It's unrelated. What do you think about Wall E? You used to love Wally. We watch it every day for, like, six months.

[David Ehrlich]

Nope.

[Griffin Newman]

Morning, Boo.

[Ben Hosley]

Okay. Say goodbye.

[Griffin Newman]

No.

[David Sims]

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our Associate producer is AJ Mc McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy, research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdies. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank checkpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by

[David Ehrlich]

Blank Check Productions, and Wally is kind of a vehicle.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah.

[David Ehrlich]

What do you think about that?

[Griffin Newman]

Wally's kind of got some main character syndrome with regards to this movie.

[David Ehrlich]

He does. He does.

[David Sims]

He's also kind of a great friend.

[Griffin Newman]

Yeah, well, save this for the.

[David Ehrlich]

That's the kind of observation that must be recorded at all times.

[Griffin Newman]

Okay, David, I'm going to send you a thing in a second.

[Ben Hosley]

Did you guys record Finding Nemo already?

[Griffin Newman]

We did.

[David Ehrlich]

We did that one good movie.

[Ben Hosley]

The best.

[Griffin Newman]

Very good fish. Okay. David.

[Ben Hosley]

Yeah? Well, I assume you don't mean me.

[David Ehrlich]

Yeah. Sorry.

[Griffin Newman]

Ben, we ready? We are.