← Book More Photography Clients Podcast | Photography Business, Photography Leads, Marketing
Book More Photography Clients Podcast | Photography Business, Photography Leads, Marketing
The Real Reason You’re Not Booking Clients (The Unscripted Podcast)
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- [00:01]
Brooke Jefferson
Hey friends, a quick note before we dive in. I'm currently recovering from surgery, so this month I'm sharing some incredible guest interviews where I was the one in the hot seat. These conversations are powerful, they are packed with value and I know you're going to love them. Enjoy the episode and I can't wait to be back with you soon.
- [00:22]
Welcome to the Book More Clients Photography Podcast. You can stop spending hours on Google and YouTube because you just found your number one resource for growing a profitable and sustainable photography business. Hi, I'm Brooke Jefferson. I'm a believer wife, mama to two and Oklahoma family photographer. I left the classroom in 2018 to pursue my photography career full time. Now I'm here to help you do the same. In this podcast we're covering the most asked about topics including pricing, marketing, client experience, and all things systems and workflows. You won't find any fluff or BS here. Just tried and true Strategy. Strategy. Are you ready? Grab your kids some snacks and charge those camera batteries. It's time to jump in.
- [01:12]
Anna
Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Unscripted Podcast for Photographers. If you are a new photographer struggling to book clients and grow your business, or you're finding that it's just really hard to generate leads, or you're generating lots of leads but you don't really know how to actually seal the deal, this episode is exactly what you need. Today I'm joined by the incredible Brooke Jefferson, a family photographer and photography educator and podcaster who's turned her passion into a thriving business. Brooke went from a simple sort of Valentine's Day shoot with her daughter to going full time in just six months. And now she teaches photographers how to do the same. In this episode, Brooke shares her best strategies for generating leads, booking clients, and keeping them coming back as well, we'll dive into how personal branding, in person networking, and clear, simple pricing can transform your business. Plus, she's giving us the exact follow up strategies that help convert inquiries into actual bookings. So if you're ready to stop waiting for clients to find you and you're ready to start taking some action that actually works, let's jump in. Brooke, thank you so much for joining us on the show. I just kind of want to start with a little get to know you question. What first sparked your passion for photography and how did you know it was that that you wanted to pursue?
- [02:34]
Brooke Jefferson
Well, first off, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I'm so honored and excited to be here. So my photography journey started back when I had My daughter, she was about four or five months old and I actually found these pictures the other day from how my whole journey got started in the first place. But I borrowed my mother in law's camera and I wanted to take pictures of my daughter and so I set up like this little Valentine's Day themed shoot for her and I had put lipstick on and like kiss her cheeks and it's so cheesy looking back now, but they're so precious to look back on. And there was just something about it that I loved being behind the camera. I grew up thinking that I was going to be more in front of the camera. I was a theater kid and my sister and I loved to like model and stuff and so I always just assumed that would be naturally what would happen. And, and it's so funny today, me being the photographer, but I love it even more. Like I love capturing people. So how it started was really just picking up a camera and falling in love with the feeling of photography. After started with my child and then my best friend and her daughter. And then before I knew it, six months later I had a full fledged business and was just trying to wing it at that time.
- [04:00]
Anna
And is that still what you love, shooting like kids and families and stuff?
- [04:04]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes, that's that. I've never, I've never thought about that before. But yes, I am a family photographer and I really prefer the kids and the families. That just is where I feel like I do the best job. I was focused on like couples and weddings there for a little bit. But truly looking over the past 11 years that I've been doing this, my heart has always resonated with families.
- [04:29]
Anna
It makes sense as well if that's kind of where you started. It was like you had something that you really wanted to document and you understood that need to capture those moments. And so I don't know, it's kind of like a nice way to come into photography. Whereas you saw something that you wanted to sort of capture instead of just liking the mechanics of a camera or learning how to use a camera, you were like, you wanted to capture the thing first instead of the technicality of like using a camera.
- [04:58]
Brooke Jefferson
Exactly.
- [05:00]
Anna
So you've kind of given us a little bit of a snippet. But can you share a little bit more about your life outside of photography? Like what do you enjoy doing when you're not working?
- [05:08]
Brooke Jefferson
So a couple of years ago I would have never been able to answer this question. It would have been, I don't know what I like to do besides working I feel like there's pros and cons, right? Like I truly love what I do. I couldn't imagine really doing anything else that just brings such purpose and joy to my life. But I did find myself in a place there for a little while where it felt like that's all I was doing was the bare minimum to live, feed my family and then restart the day working. And so I relearn. So I am a mom to two, I have an 8 year old and 11 year old. I am a wife to my husband Robert. We've been married for 10 years. This year we have a few dogs and really what you'll find me doing is I love to read. We were talking about that before we pressed record. I do love to read. So I try to force myself to open a physical book in my hands and enjoy doing something like that. We love to be outside during the summertime when it's a lot warmer than it is now. We love hanging around the pool. We have a pool in our backyard and going to the lake, going on vacations and we're very competitive with like card games. So typically on a good. Yeah, on a good Saturday night you will find us playing games of some sort with family members and it does get really competitive. So that's a little bit of what I like to do outside of working.
- [06:38]
Anna
I love that. I love that. I feel like a good competitive family card game night is a spice of life. It's just so fun.
- [06:46]
Brooke Jefferson
It is so fun.
- [06:48]
Anna
How did you find your way back to that? I guess like after sort of working and sort of being so immersed in your life, was there a turning moment where you were like, actually like, I'm kind of craving a bit more balance now. Or did you sort of just naturally find that.
- [07:06]
Such a good question.
- [07:07]
Brooke Jefferson
Yeah. There was a turning point at the time. I was not only working a full time job, I was a teacher and running a full time photography business. This was during the. Yeah, yeah. This was during the year that I made a decision that I was going to resign from teaching. I just had to fulfill my contract to the end of the school year and then I knew I was going to continue with photography full time and I literally was running two full time gigs. It was very difficult and my kids were very little at the time and I started feeling a ton of mom guilt. Like it got to the point where I was like, dinner's never prepared. I'm looking at these kids who I love so much, but I don't feel like I've spent any quality time with them. And I just felt like it was kind of like God kind of waking me up in that moment, saying, this is not sustainable. Like, we have to. We have to clear your plate and you have to figure out your priorities and learn how to put your family first or you're going to burn your business to the ground. So that was my turning point. And it took probably a year or two years to really find a good work life balance for myself. And now I. I feel like I don't have a problem shutting the laptop, turning it off, and really being engaged. And how I really ask myself through different seasons on do I feel like I have a good work life balance going on right now is how my relationships feel. So if I feel like, okay, I know I had good conversations with my kids that day, I've spent time with them, I feel like my marriage is on track, then I know that I'm doing it well. And when I feel like I'm dropping a ball in some area, it's just kind of a reminder to take a closer look and change things if needed. So that. Wow, I came to that conclusion. Yeah.
- [09:02]
Anna
I really love that idea though, as, like, relationships are your sort of litmus test for how your work life balance is tracking. Because I think that when you're feeling really burnt out, you just don't really have any capacity to deeply listen or show up or be present for anyone around you. And your relationship ends up showing that. And so I feel like sometimes it's easy to just kind of be in your little hamster wheel, like, ticking along, getting all the jobs done, making your list, crossing things off the list, that sometimes it's hard to know what the signs are of, like, you not having a good work life balance. And I just think that what you just said is a really amazing sort of metric for being able to really know whether you're on track for a good work life balance.
- [09:53]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes, it's been life changing for sure.
- [09:56]
Anna
And you do seem like someone who is, like, always kind of wanting to, like, grow and progress and learn new things, you know? For one, you have a podcast of six years that has over 300 episodes on it. But also you are a educator, and I feel like you just have so many things that you're sort of constantly offering. How did you transition from being, I guess, a photographer slash teacher to becoming like a photography educator and podcaster?
- [10:27]
Brooke Jefferson
Love this question. When I decided to go full time in photography, this would have been back in 2018 is when I finally took that leap. The school year ended in May. And then I went full time photographer after that. And so I was able to get the full time job off of my plate, which helped free me up so much, especially in the flexibility category with my family. And then it was a year later, it was April 2019 when I started my podcast. And that really came from a place of, okay, I've been doing this since 2014. I knew nothing. I don't have any degrees or certifications or anything like that in photography specifically. And I was just trying to figure it out as I went, I guess more self taught. And I just thought, man, I wish I had somebody or a podcast or something that I could have listened to where they were just telling me tips and tricks and strategies and little bits of education to kind of help me in my own business. And so I started the podcast with no intention of ever making a single dollar from it. It was simply just to be that mentor that I wish I had. And I was just getting on there and talking about my experience, interviewing other photographers and allowing them to share their journey and their wins and successes. And then it was in 2020 when I actually full on launched my education business. For a while, I really wrestled with having two young kids. I had a newborn and a three year old when I was trying to graduate college and go into full time teaching. And looking back, I'm like, man, why did I go through that? Like, my life doesn't really make sense to me. Like, I'm grateful for where I am, but I almost wonder like, did I, did I waste all that time? You know? And then God just kind of connected the dots for me and I go, oh, I can be a teacher outside of the classroom and I can really become this educator and help people that want to learn, like they, they want to learn what I have to teach, apply it to their own business, and then change their life in business. And so that's the biggest blessing. That's really how all of that happened. And I ran an Instagram challenge in 2020, and after that people were begging for the Facebook group to stay open because they had met so many other photographers that they wanted to stay connected to. And that's how everything just like Full on launched. From that point, I started offering Coaching an online template shop. And then now it's evolved into having a signature program. So that's kind of how that happened. It's really cool to look back onto for myself and remind myself how I even got here.
- [13:22]
Anna
You can really see how things like flow though. I know you said that you don't feel like your life makes any sense to you, like, retrospectively, but, like, you can see how all those things kind of lead to one another. And it sounds like there were quite a few, like, pivotal moments. But I just want to ask the question of, like, is there one in particular that, like, has changed the way that you approach your business?
- [13:48]
Brooke Jefferson
Let's see. One defining moment. I feel like. I feel like that moment for me was probably in 2020 when I had my very first coaching client. And really, I think I started working with her in 2019. She was my very first client, and I was her very first coach. And I had a lot of insecurities, and am I really cut out for this? Is she really going to find value in me? And it was after working with her for, like, three to six months and looking at what she was able to do and looking at what she said about working with me, how it just ripple effect changed her life in business was when a light bulb went off, and I just really felt like, okay, like, yes, I can bring value to the table. I really can do this educator thing. And so it just sparked so much fire in me. So I really do. I think about her all the time. I still know her name. I still follow her business. It's been incredible watching her grow over the last few years. So truly, I think she was my one defining moment that really just brought everything full circle for me.
- [15:01]
Anna
Yeah, I mean, it's really affirming when you put all your energy into something and kind of put it out into the world and someone puts their trust in you and through that relationship and like, through that sort of process of growing on both sides, you can really kind of step into your power a little bit more and be like, oh, no, I. I actually, I can do this. Like, I have a lot to offer. Like, you know.
- [15:23]
Brooke Jefferson
Yeah, yeah. So powerful.
- [15:27]
Anna
How did you get your first coaching client?
- [15:31]
Brooke Jefferson
Okay, so great question. I think how this ended up happening was she had listened to my podcast, and then I know it was through Facebook. I can't remember the initial moment. I don't remember if it was. She sent me a message, and that's how we initially connected. I don't remember exactly how that happened, but I do know it had something to do with my podcast and with Facebook in some capacity. And I think it was just after having a back and forth conversation, hopping on Zoom and just kind of explaining, you know, how I can help her in my own story. I think that's how I locked her in as a client.
- [16:12]
Anna
And you work with A lot of photographers and one of your things that you sort of teach and offer is like, how to increase people's leads and then not only just increase leads, but turn these leads into inquiries and clients. How do you suggest people do this? And, like, if you had to go back and, like, give advice to your younger self when you were first starting out in photography, what would you say?
- [16:36]
Brooke Jefferson
If I had to give my younger self some advice? A couple things that I would say. One, I have more than enough to offer. I don't need to get caught up in the comparison trap. I remember, like yesterday what it felt like trying to put myself out there, that I'm doing air quotations and trying to compete with other photographers in my area. I thought that competing with them or trying to look like them was the key to success, when it was, in fact the exact opposite. That really helped me stand out in that way. The other thing that I would say too is social media is not the end all, be all. And I know we'll get into this later in our conversation, but that is something that I think would have just given me so much more freedom back in the day. And yes, I do have some advice on how we actually like the strategy behind all of this, but I just kind of wanted to start with the mindset piece. I feel like it's so important for photographers to really pay attention to their mindset, because it is everything. If you go into a situation and you automatically are thinking, like, this isn't gonna work, I'm not cut out for this, this photography industry is so saturated, etc. Etc. You like, that's the result you're going to get. It really is. What you put in and the way that you shape a situation and your world to be is really what your reality will feed you. And so the very first thing I like to tackle is getting photographers to understand that our minds are very powerful and we can go down a rabbit hole and burn ourselves to the ground in a negative mindset. And so it's so important to listen to the fears and the negative thoughts that come up, and then knock those down, push them out, and then look at the truth and reframe our mindsets. Because when you can walk into your business or any situation that you might be having, maybe you don't have any bookings on your calendar, and that is the number one thing you want to change going into it, thinking nothing's ever going to change is not going to serve you. Whereas you're, you know, you could flip that and you could say, okay. I'm going to make sure that next month is my best month in photography now. I'm going to do whatever it takes. That is completely two different energies and mindsets. And so I always have to start there before we get into the practical strategy.
- [19:11]
Anna
Totally. And I mean, it's interesting just hearing you talk about all of that. I was even sort of thinking back to, like, you know, five minutes ago in our conversation. You're talking about, like, getting your first coaching client and, like, how you kind of had to relearn this positive mindset, like, as a coach, like, even after having done photography for so long, like, these thoughts sometimes just creep in despite everybody's best intentions. And it's kind of like you have to keep yourself in check and you have to keep yourself honest. And, like, I really love what you said about kind of addressing the fears. It's not like we're just shoving them down into the subconscious, putting them in a little box and never looking at them again. It's just kind of validating, but then also trying to, like, bolster your sort of resilience and confidence and. Yeah. Have I missed anything?
- [20:02]
Brooke Jefferson
No, that's exactly it. And I love that you said it's not like we're going to do it one time and then never have to deal with it again. It truly is a muscle that you have to learn to flex and every time you find yourself in, like, a negative situation. And I want to give a side note, too, for some of the women in. In the audience, too. We have a couple days out of the month where we want to burn everything to the ground and everything sucks. And I. I just got over a couple days like that, and I just. I've just had to literally mark it on a calendar and say, listen, you're okay. Make zero decisions for the next three days. So, yes. Just know, like, it's going to happen and it's so normal. But don't stay in the negative mindset, because that will truly hurt your business more than anything.
- [20:51]
Anna
Yeah, totally. I'm on my way in and, like, this morning I was at the gym, and I was just like, why is everything so hard? Like, it wasn't like this last week. I just.
- [21:01]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes.
- [21:01]
Anna
You know, but it's kind of remembering that it's a temporary state of mind and that it's not. Yeah. Don't make decisions from that place.
- [21:12]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes, exactly.
- [21:13]
Anna
I know that there's. We could just have a whole podcast episode on Mindset, but I. I do want to sort of talk a little bit about, like, Strategy as well. What would some of strategies be for increasing photography leads, especially in like today's competitive market?
- [21:28]
Brooke Jefferson
So good. This could literally be like an ongoing podcast series. So I will try to keep this as concise as I can. I have six bullet points and I'm just going to tell you all six first and then we can dive into whichever one you feel like you want to pick apart. So six ways that you can increase your leads. One is by building a personal brand for yourself. Number two is becoming known for something and this is having a niche or having a specialty within your photography industry. Number three is taking your messaging from vanilla and blending in with everyone to more flavorful and bold, depending on what your brand is. Number four is doing more in person networking and collaboration. Five is giving an exceptional client experience. And the number six is to actually sell your services and ask for the booking. So those are the six just right off the top. Like I said, this could be a whole masterclass, a whole series. Are there out of those six, are there any that you want to dive into? And I don't mind doing a little bit, a little bit of both. You're just gonna have to make sure we don't talk about this for an hour.
- [22:51]
Anna
Oh, my gosh. I mean, yes, Sorry. So I guess what I did in that last question was just ask you what your whole business is about and to please explain that to me in like 10 minutes. So, like, excuse the extremely naive question, but I think what I feel like we haven't really talked about that much on this podcast is number four, the in person networking and also the number six actually asking for the seller. Okay, let's focus on those two.
- [23:22]
Brooke Jefferson
All right, so let's dive in to in person networking and collaborations. And let me just tell you why this is such a big deal. As photographers, especially those of us that either started businesses or we had a business during the pandemic, you saw how the whole world changed. Everything went online as if it wasn't headed that direction already. It just went so fast. And so everyone got so comfortable sitting in their own homes, not getting dressed every day, going nowhere, talking to no one except through a screen. And that has become a state of comfort for so many people, even still to this day. We saw a lot of remote positions come up. We saw a lot of industries go online, like completely. And so the reason this matters is because as photographers, we work with, with clients in person. We don't have an online business. We have online marketing, but we are not an online business. And so at the Very root of what we do, we have to actually get in front of human beings. I know it's a wild concept, but we have to actually go into human to human interactions. And so the biggest thing I hear photographers complain about is I'm not getting leads or I'm not getting bookings, like I'm getting a couple of inquiries, but I feel like nobody knows who I am. And the number one way that you can change that is we all live somewhere and we all have a community where we live. It's so important that we leave our four walls of our home and we get out and we go network in person. Local collaboration and local community marketing has been my number one tool in my back pocket beside like word of mouth that has truly allowed me to grow my business to the heights I have in the last 11 years. So it's just so important that you put yourself out there in your community. And I will definitely give you some examples of this as well here in just a minute, but this one's so crucial. If we're relying solely on online methods of marketing. While they're great and they do work, we can't put all of our eggs in that basket because we will eventually run dry. And so local marketing can literally change your entire business.
- [25:53]
Anna
Regardless of whether you photograph elopements, weddings, or family sessions, the juggling act that comes with running your own business can be a real struggle. There's a lot that falls on your shoulders, from marketing yourself to managing your finances, to finding new ways to to stay creatively inspired. Look, it's a lot to expect one person to do on their own. You should be able to grow a thriving photography business without losing sleep time or all your friends over it. Having empowered over 500,000 photographers worldwide to make money doing what they love, the unscripted app for photographers takes the struggle out of what you do. Offering the world's most extensive collection of poses and prompts, lawyer approved contracts, digital invoices, client questionnaires, beautifully designed galleries, and so much more. Your only regret will be not getting on board earlier. Stop feeling disorganized, insecure and awkward. Book your ideal clients and grow a thriving photography business today. Search unscripted in your app store now and get $20 off lifetime access with our code Unscripted podcast. I really like that as well. It's like especially what's been happening with meta and like the algorithm changing and like different laws changing. It's like everything that you've built could be like ripped out from under your feet like at any minute. Which, sorry, that sounds so fear mongering. Like, it's not.
- [27:18]
It'S not that bad. But it is like really important to. Yeah, as you said, not put all your eggs in one basket. And you kind of, I don't know, it's an empowering thing to do to like take control of your own business.
- [27:28]
Brooke Jefferson
This.
- [27:30]
Anna
So what does this look like?
- [27:32]
Brooke Jefferson
Yeah, so I know all the introverts are like hiding behind a pillow at this point. Like, no, I don't want to do this. This sounds terrible, but I'm telling you, it's really not as bad as it seems. This is as simple as just going out and meeting another business owner. So how I describe community marketing, there's several different ways. One is you can just sign up up for local events going on in your area. So one of the things that happens in my community every year in October is they put together. I say they, I guess it's just the city. I really don't know who is in charge of this event. I just know everyone signs up for it. It's a chili cook off. And so what happens is everyone signs up. You can be an individual, you could be a business. It's totally up to you. And you will rent a booth. Like you'll set up a booth and you can put all of your advertising stuff on it, you can, you can decorate it, you can do whatever you want with it. And then you, you bring your best recipe for a chili and it's like this big competition and they do give out cash prizes for first, second and third place. Well, this is a huge event and so a lot of people will come to this and they go around and they taste test and cast votes for their best chili. Well, you're meeting hundreds of people in one day face to face, where you can hand a business card over or have them go over to your Instagram or your website or whatever. And so that right there is an example of all you did was you went and you had some fun at a community event and you met like over 100 people in one day. So that's my favorite method. And I'm telling you there are events happening in your community and if it's not in your exact community, if you just go one hour away or even 30 minutes away from where you live, you will find one and you will meet so many people that will go from someone you shook hands with to someone that is paying you for your photography services. So that's the first example. Anna, did you have anything to that one?
- [29:40]
Anna
No, I just love the idea of going and, like, tasting heaps of chilies and handing out your business card, that sounds like heaven.
- [29:48]
Brooke Jefferson
Yeah, it's a. It's a great way to market it. Sounds a lot more fun than food marketing.
- [29:53]
Anna
I'm like, oh, the incentive is there. Like, if I can eat and do the marketing, then great. I'm. I'm all in.
- [30:01]
Brooke Jefferson
Exactly. Another idea for you for community marketing is to do a collaboration with another business or business owner. So I want you to think about your photography specialty or niche or. I'm a family photographer, so I'm just going to use that as an example. There is a boutique in my community where I am constantly referring my clients to go in and shop for an outfit to wear to their session. And so I have become very good friends with the boutique owner. And we have done several different collaborations over the years, but we have done a collaboration where we've done like a giveaway and we're able to get in front of each other's audiences. And it works so well because we're very tailored to the same type of clientele and it works beautifully. They want to shop at her store. They want to hire me for photography services. So if you can think about who is my client, where are they shopping, or what do they need? So another example I like to give is if you are a maternity or a newborn photographer, then could you collaborate with an ultrasound center, a doctor's office, a doula, a birthing center? Just think about where your ideal client would be and how can you get in front of their audience and basically swap audiences. Another great example of this that has nothing to do with photography right now is the fact that we are doing a podcast swap, right? I'm getting in front of the unscripted audience, and then she will come get on in front of the book. More photography clients, community. So that's just another example of how.
- [31:43]
Anna
That idea works that makes a lot of sense. Do you have, like, a media kit that you usually, like, send out to business owners? Just go into their shop and just introduce yourself. Or, like, what would be, like, the best way for new photographers to sort of approach businesses and ask them if they want to collaborate?
- [32:05]
Brooke Jefferson
I guess my first recommendation would be pick places that you would naturally be a part of anyway, or at least go in there just as a. Just as a human right, with no business tie whatsoever. So, for example, I went into this boutique and I actually shopped around and bought a few items. And then a couple months later, I went back and then approached this idea of doing A business. I think if there's a little more authentic relationship building there first, or you show, like, true interest in working with that particular shop or business or whatever it is, you're gonna have, like, a better result. Or if you can't do this in person, you could also do this via social media. Are you actually, like, responding to their stories, participating in their polls, commenting on their content? That's huge, right? It would be so weird for someone to not even be following a business and then just randomly say, hey, I have this idea. You know what I mean?
- [33:07]
Anna
Like, that's just.
- [33:08]
Brooke Jefferson
That's not what we want to do here. We want to keep everything warm and authentic. But I also understand that some of you might be wedding photographers and you're not necessarily going to go tour every venue for fun on your own time, but you might want to collaborate with them in the future. So one of the examples that I gave to a photography client of mine the other day was she wants to get to know more venue owners. And so I told her, why don't you go tour the venue with. With a potential bride? So go find someone that's already booked you, that maybe hasn't booked a venue yet, or vice versa, or someone that you know is probably going to get married in the next year or something. Y' all go together and then you get to know this venue owner in person, and then maybe you say, I really loved your venue so much. I'm definitely going to do a blog post on your event, and then I'm going to share it with. With my audience or whatever. Would you be open sometime to me doing a creative shoot here? Or could we team up and maybe do a giveaway sometime? That's all you have to do is just really approach it with a what's in it for them and not just what's in it for you? So I hope that helps. I don't know if I talked my way around your question, but.
- [34:23]
Anna
No, no, no, no. Definitely, definitely. And I feel like what I got out of that is actually having, like, an authentic relationship to build on and then also highlighting how it's going to be mutually beneficial.
- [34:35]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes. And I also want to just give a little caveat here. Not everyone you reach out to will give you an immediate yes. In fact, the boutique that I've talked about for myself, it took a solid year for me to actually get in the door and get her interested in working with me. But then I blew her socks off the first time that we collaborated together. And now it's just become like, A yearly thing that we do. So. So just keep that in mind. A no is not forever. It just might be that they need a little time to actually get to know you and see if you're serious. So that's another thing. Some things just. They just take time.
- [35:14]
Anna
Yeah, totally. You kind of have to have a bit of a thick skin and just be like, that's okay. I'm gonna keep trying.
- [35:21]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes.
- [35:22]
Anna
Okay. So are you ready to move on to the number six of the ways to generate more leads and booking?
- [35:29]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes. So this one is all about asking for the booking. I know this sounds silly, and it's something that I continuously have to coach myself on. When's the last time we did, like, a direct ask to get a booking? Like, yes, we post content, we talk around our services, we show people what we're doing. But how often do we actually say, DM me to book or slide this bar if you're ready to book or. You know what I mean? Like, very seldomly do I see photographers just directly ask for it or send an email. And after they give value, ask for the booking. Let people know. This is my booking calendar. It's time to book your family session for the spring. If you wait too long, you know you're not going to get a spot or I only have six sessions available. Here's the booking link. I just see a lot of us, we're almost too afraid to ask. The other way that I see this happening too is we don't go back and try to get repeat clients or we don't ask our, you know, dream clients, the people we loved working with, for a referral. And that's where we leave money on the table. So I never want you to be afraid to ask for those things if you truly are, you know, you have an exceptional client experience. People are telling you that they loved working with you. They're telling you that they love their images. You're getting tagged in their posts, or they're using it as their profile photo or whatever the case may be. And, you know, you did a really good job. Don't hesitate to reach back out. So let me give you an example. I am a family photographer. I know I've said that a lot, but this is a very long interview. So just in case you fast forwarded. And so typically for me, families aren't going to see me multiple, multiple times a year. They might see me once a year. I have some people who will see me every two, and occasionally I will have one that I see like every four to Five years, which is crazy. So anyway, and so I know that they're not necessarily going to see me multiple times a year. Sometimes they will. Like if they have younger kids or they have had a baby, I might see them four times in a year. It just depends. So what I like to do is every year, when I get ready to release my calendar for the next, next season, because I go by seasons. So for example, I will be doing this in a few weeks where I'm going to get my summer calendar ready. I will look back at who booked me last summer and the summer before that, because I keep track of all of this. I go back, I see who it was, and then I will send that client a message. I will say something like, hey, Amy, I've been watching you on Facebook. I can't believe your little boy is growing up. Up. Man, time flies by. I know you booked a summer session with me two years ago. I just wanted to circle back and, and let you know that I will be opening my calendar for the summer and I just wanted to see if you were interested in booking another summer session with me. That's it. Hope you're doing well. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's just very like, hey, I'm thinking about you. I wanted to give you, like, I'm doing you a service by letting you pick your dates first. Things like that. The amount of bookings I've had from just asking for them is incredible. So that's what I mean by like, we are so afraid to ask or plant the seed or even just say, hey, I know we did your newborn session, but are you thinking about doing a six month milestone session so that's how you can continue to get those clients booking you?
- [39:08]
Anna
And what do you make of this hesitation that photographers have to not, not ask for the booking?
- [39:16]
Brooke Jefferson
I think it just comes from fear. Like, fear that we're bothering people or fear that we are being slimy or salesy. But we are also in business. And I think it's all where the intention's coming from. Right. Like, my intention of following up isn't just so I can make money off of that person. I wouldn't even follow up if I truly didn't enjoy working with them or following along with their life or, you know what I mean? And so for me, it's coming from an authentic place of I really enjoyed working with them the first time. I would love to work with them a second time. And so I know that life's busy and that she has a million things going On I see all the little league stuff that her son is involved in and I just genuinely want to serve her by planting the seed and asking her if she's interested. So again, goes back down to intention. And the worst that she's going to do, the very worst thing is not reply or say, no, thank you and that's it. And I'm just gonna rock and roll and move on to the next person. So it's not as scary.
- [40:24]
Anna
Yeah, totally. Okay. So I know that there's a lot that we kind of didn't touch on in terms of strategies for increasing leads, but say people were like nailing this step where they were like, they have a great personal brand, they found their niche, they have really great messaging, they're doing the in person networking, they're serving up an exceptional client experience, they're like asking for the sell and the bookings or the inquiries kind of start rolling in. How can photographers make sure that like when the inquiries are coming in, they're doing the best thing they can to like convert those inquiries into actual bookings?
- [41:04]
Brooke Jefferson
Yeah, because that's what matters, right? That's the most important step. Yeah. A couple mistakes that I see in this area specifically. The first one is that when you are communicating with a lead, they're very unclear or they're confused about the pricing and packages that you sent over. Whether that's on your website or you typed it up or you gave them a pricing guide, they're just overall not 100% sure what they're getting. That's the biggest thing that I see the hang up. Like it's just, it's overly complicated and they don't really understand it. So to make sure that you're not doing this one, don't give them 5 million options to work with. You make it very clear. Three packages or less is really all they need to be choosing from. I give my families one option and it works well because it's very easy for them to say yes or no. So that's one thing is just making sure that it's super simple. The second thing is to make sure that you're using visuals when you are showcasing your pricing. And packages let people see what they're getting. So you want to show off your photography. You don't want to hand them a document that has nothing but text all over it. People will not read it. They just won't. And so you need to make sure that, that you're using like bullet points to list what comes with your services. Just make it very simple. Don't use photography jargon, words that we understand like raw files. They don't know what that means. You know, I love seeing. I love seeing in the Facebook groups all the time. My client is asking me for the Ross. She doesn't even know what that means, you guys. Okay? So don't use that kind of language. Keep it very simple. Some things that you should be including in your pricing and packages is what is the length of the session. People really do need to know this because they're putting it on a calendar. They want to know are they getting digitals, is it prints and products, are they even getting anything or is it a session fee? And I use all inclusive pricing personally for my business and so I don't do a session fee. Everything's included. So if I say something and you're like, that's not how I run my business, that's okay, just change it for you. You. The other thing is I tell them exactly what they can expect, location wise. And I really think that's about it. I tell them the time, I tell them the location. Like if it's outdoor studio, do they get one, do they get two? I tell them how many images they can expect, how the images are going to be delivered. So I use, you know, an online gallery, things like that. Just tell them the basics of what they need to know. Anything that has to do with like styling or actually prepping them, that's all client experience and client prep. You can talk about that after they book you. You don't need to put that in a pricing guide. The second thing that I see where you're losing leads is you're not getting back to them quick enough. And here's what I don't mean. We don't need to be waiting at our phones and our computers 24 7. That's exhausting. We're not going to do that. That. But the days of saying I'll get back to you in three to five days or so over, we cannot do that. I think it's reasonable to say 24 hours because you should be checking your inbox at least once a day and that's going to help you get to those inquiries on time. The other thing, if you're not using one, is an automated email so that your lead gets taken care of quickly and you let them know what to expect. Hey, so and so, I just wanted to let you know I did receive your inquiry. It is safely in my inbox box. You can expect me to reach back out in the next 24 hours in the Meantime, here's some helpful links that might get you some answers to questions you have, and I'll be back to chat with you tomorrow. Or something like that. Third mistake is your booking process is way too complicated. One of the biggest mistakes I made in the very beginning couple years of my business, literally, picture this, okay? I had a PIN and I had a paper planner and I had my phone, and that's how I ran my business. That is ridiculous. I would be talking to clients, going back and forth for days at a time, just trying to settle on a day and a time. And guess what? I also overbooked myself or forgot to write somebody in there, and that is not a good client experience. So I did learn a few mistakes in the very, very beginning of my business. And now, and this happened today, actually. It's so easy. I get emails saying people booked all the time. Then I'm like, wait a second, who is this? How did they find me? Wait, what happened? You know? But it's all in a good way. It's because I've automated my system to where they don't always need me. And so what this looks like is you should have a booking calendar that allows you to show your availability. You just send a link, they're able to go in, select a date and time, put in their information, pay their retainer, and sign a contract all at one time so that you don't have to chase your lead around asking for the retainer and then wondering if they're actually going to show up to their session or, oh, my goodness, this client will not sign my contract, even though she's responding to every other email that I have. So those are the top three. I do have one more, but I just want to take a breath. I just want you to put some input.
- [46:34]
Anna
No, I mean, I'm just, like, kind of writing all this stuff down because this is all stuff that unscripted offers where it's like, it's all in the app. Like, someone gets a booking, you can just kind of click, like, send pricing guide. Like, send this. And, like, you can be out, like, having a coffee, and you just, like, tick these two boxes and then you send. And the client can't progress onto the next step until, like, the contract is signed. And it's like, just as much as you can automate as possible so you're not, like, sitting at your computer, like, staring at a blank email, watching the cursor blink, being like, what was I saying to this client? Was it this client that wanted the what to Wear guide? Or was it the other client? You can just kind of have everything in the one place and like, have it all organized and like send it off. And I think that. Good point as well, about out. It's not really like, gone are the days of being like, okay, like, be back in three to five business days. People are like, well, I'm just gonna find another photographer.
- [47:31]
Brooke Jefferson
Yeah. Yes.
- [47:33]
Anna
It's. Yeah, I don't know. That's kind of like a critical point. Totally.
- [47:38]
Brooke Jefferson
Yep. And I was thinking about that with your app that everything that I said should fit perfectly within what you offer to photographers as well. And. And that just goes to show that that's like a bare minimum expectation. It used to be really impressive when people would have an automated booking calendar and even automated emails, but now it's like, well, that's kind of the standard. You know what I mean? So if, if photographers aren't doing this, you're definitely way behind the times. And there's so many platforms out there, especially the unscripted app, that can help you with this.
- [48:12]
Anna
Totally.
- [48:13]
Brooke Jefferson
With your booking process.
- [48:15]
Anna
Totally. Yeah. And what was your last point?
- [48:18]
Brooke Jefferson
Okay, last point is not following up or not doing it in a way that wins over your lead. So following up. There's a saying, the fortune is in the follow up. And it's so true. Because people just get busy. I know we automatically assume that. Well, I sent over the email, I sent over the pricing guide. I must have just been out of their price range and that very well may not even be the case. Sure. They might have opened the email and clicked on the pricing guide. Maybe they glanced at it, but then all of a sudden their toddler came, crawled up in their lap, they exited out of their phone and went over to, you know, a YouTube video for their kid or something. Right. Like things happen all the time and people just naturally forget. So if you can just give your leads the benefit of the doubt first before automatically assuming that you're a horrible photographer or you're too expensive or all the other things we tell ourselves. And just give them 24 hours to go back to the email and read what you sent over. I like to follow up at the 24 hour mark, the one day mark, and then I like to give it a week after that. If I truly have not heard back from them, I give it one more week and then at that point, if I don't hear back from them, then I just let it go. Now, if at any point they do respond to me, but it doesn't look like they're able to book with me and they this season, that's where I then ask them. Okay, great. I would love to invite you to join my email list or to join my Facebook group community so we can stay in contact and so you know that you can stay in the know with what's happening in the photography business. That way if you see some like a mini session pop up and, and that works better for you guys, you can jump on one of those. So don't leave your leads, don't let them just say no and then do nothing with them. Invite them into another platform or a market channel where you're going to be able to keep that communication going.
- [50:20]
Anna
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And like, what is the tone of the follow up? Is the like 24 hour follow up kind of like, hey, just checking in and then the, the second one week follow up you're like, this is the last time I'm checking. Like, how do you do that?
- [50:40]
Brooke Jefferson
So my first follow up is always hey, name. I just wanted to check in and see if you were able to look over the pricing guide. I always try to leave it in some sort of like a one sentence or a one question so that I put the ball in their court. That way they'll at least maybe answer the question. I typically get a ton of leads that will respond to my first follow up and they will say, oh my goodness, thank you so much for reaching back out. I totally spaced. Or yes, I did look at it. I am trying to get together with my family and figure out the best date or I'm waiting on a sports schedule or something like that. So they're telling me where they're at in the process. And then at that point I'm not going to follow up with them in three days I'm going to say, okay, great, I'm just going to kind of wait, you know what I mean? So I give them a few days and maybe a week goes by and then I'll follow up again. And then at that point they'll, they either will go ahead and book or they will tell me, I just cannot find a day that works with what you have available. Or you know, my husband said that's just not, this is just not the best season for this. Then that's when I'll go ahead and invite them into the marketing channel like I said. But everything for me it's very like casual. It's just, hey, just checking in on you. Like I don't ever say this is the last time. If I don't hear from somebody. So let's say I didn't hear from them on the first follow up or the second follow up. I'm now at the third follow up. Then that is when I will just say I just wanted to check in with you one more time. It doesn't look like you've seen any of my messages or some, you know, it just kind of depends on what the situation is. I will still do the invite. Maybe now's not the best time for you guys for a session, but I'd love to invite you to join my email list so you can stay in the know. I still throw that invitation that way if they ever open it. It's so funny. Like sometimes they just don't want to talk to you, but yet they'll go join your email list like it's wild what people do. So I just pretend. I just always assume they will read this and they will want to join the email list. So that's typically how I handle the follow ups.
- [52:49]
Anna
And how do you advise photographers to handle like ghosting or non responses like you were saying, you know, sometimes they just don't want to talk to you. Like, like, have you kind of learned to just, I don't know, water off a duck's back kind of vibe? Are you just like, h, it's fine like, or do you still kind of feel the stinging of it a little bit?
- [53:09]
Brooke Jefferson
I think it depends. Sometimes you just get a gut feeling and you just know when that client wasn't right for you. But now that I'm 11 years in and other photographers, whether you're in your first year or your 11th, like me, you really learn to get more confident with yourself. And at the end of the day, we don't really want to have to twist people's arms to work with us. So I just take it as a blessing in disguise and realize, okay, it wasn't the right time or this was not someone that I was supposed to be working with. And again, just like you said, it is water off the duck's back. We are moving on. I know I'm gonna get another inquiry in a few days and they will probably be better fit clients. So that's really my mindset going into it.
- [53:51]
Anna
And how has like your approach to lead generation and client conversion, like, evolved throughout your career? You sound like you're in a really good place with it, but like, how has this sort of evolved over the course of all the time you've been in business?
- [54:04]
Brooke Jefferson
I feel like it's ever evolving. I think the Way that I even communicate with clients has changed. I think having confidence in giving people space to make a decision has changed and me not having to worry about it so much. My process is always evolving, so I might say a certain phrase for a couple years and then I'll change it or I will come up with new email templates. It really just depends. However, now I do feel like I am in such a good, confident place with myself. As a business owner. I know that I serve my clients well. I know that the people who are all in will have an amazing experience. And I know that I deliver really high quality work that is worth their investment. And so when you have the confidence like that, approaching leads and inquiries, I feel like I handle it with more grace. Like, that's kind of what came up for me. Like, I know that the investment now with me is higher than it ever was when I first started. And so I realize sometimes it takes some time to make that decision or people are a little hesitant. Maybe they've been burned in the past. I just feel like I can handle conversations better than I could 10 years ago. To sum all of that up.
- [55:22]
Anna
Yeah, definitely. No, I mean, I think that that's, like, really affirming. And obviously for those of you out there that are just starting out in your career, just know that, that, like, you're just going to kind of keep on getting better. Brooke, we are sort of starting to wind up a little bit here, and we have covered so much ground. Just wondering if there's anything that you would like to add before we sign off. Any bits of advice you'd like to give to photographers just starting out out and maybe struggling with leads or feeling uninspired about marketing.
- [55:51]
Brooke Jefferson
Yes, that is a difficult place to be, both mentally and physically. But I, again, I want you to hang on to the word that it's temporary. The other thing that I want to point out is if you continue doing what you're doing right now and it proves in 90 days that the results have not changed, then you need to change what you're doing. You need to shake things up a little bit. You need to choose a new marketing strategy. You need to put yourself out in your community a little bit more. You need to show your personal brand, whatever that may be, because my favorite quote. And man, I bet you my students are so tired of hearing me say this, but if nothing changes, nothing changes. And so don't stay so stuck in your comfort zone in what you're doing right now. Don't let fear get the best of you. When you could jump in and try something different, that really just completely changes your business. So when you're in the very beginning, I know visibility and leads, it just feels like an uphill battle. And so my advice to you would be to hang in there, do the hard work, which means go out and get in your community, actually meet people, actually talk to people. And it takes, it literally takes one person to open the door for you to get into a brand new circle of clients. And so if you can just go into it with that mindset, it will make marketing and local marketing so much easier. And again, just know that you are growing and you are evolving every single day in your photography business.
- [57:29]
Anna
Thank you so much for joining us. Where can our audience find you?
- [57:32]
Brooke Jefferson
Thank you so much. This was such a fun conversation. Two places I'd love for you to come connect with me. One, you're already listening to a podcast, so I would love for you to come follow my podcast. It's called the Book More Photography Clients Podcast. And then the other place is Instagram. That's my favorite platform to hang out. And my Instagram handle is at Brooke Janae Photo.
- [57:56]
Anna
Awesome. We will link all of these in the show notes and until then, thank you so much for joining us and I will talk to you soon. Okay. That was such an insightful conversation. I just really love how Brooke can sort of disseminate, distill her knowledge into actionable tips.