← Book More Photography Clients Podcast | Photography Business, Photography Leads, Marketing
Book More Photography Clients Podcast | Photography Business, Photography Leads, Marketing
Why Your Photography Inquiries Aren't Converting & And How to Fix It (Shoot It Straight Podcast)
00:53:41
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- [00:01]
A
Hey, friends, a quick note before we dive in. I'm currently recovering from surgery, so this month I'm sharing some incredible guest interviews where I was the one in the hot seat. These conversations are powerful, they are packed with value and I know you're going to love them. Enjoy the episode and I can't wait to be back with you soon. Welcome to the Book More Clients Photography Podcast. You can stop spending hours on Google and YouTube because you just found your number one resource for growing a profitable and sustainable photography business. Hi, I'm Brooke Jefferson. I'm a believer wife, mama to two, and Oklahoma family photographer. I left the classroom in 2018 to pursue my photography career full time. Now I'm here to help you do the same. In this podcast, we're covering the most asked about topics including pricing, marketing, client experience, and all things systems and workflows. You won't find any fluff or bs here. Just tried and true. Strategy. Strategy. Are you ready? Grab your kids some snacks and charge those camera batteries. It's time to jump in.
- [01:13]
B
On today's episode of the Shoot It Straight podcast, I am joined by my friend Brooke Jefferson, and we are giving you so much valuable, tangible information to do something that I am guessing you want to do, and that is book more clients. This conversation is so juicy. You better have a pen, you better have your notebook. And buckle up because this is a true masterclass. This discussion has so many steps and takeaways and is so full of amazing nuggets. You are going to absolutely love it. So let's dive in. Welcome back to the Shoot It Straight podcast, my friends. Today I'm welcoming Brooke Jefferson back to the podcast and we're getting into a really juicy time topic one that should have every single listener perking their ears up because we are chatting about increasing your bookings and that's something that pretty much everyone wants. So I'm really excited to see where this discussion goes today. But before we get started, Brooke, will you introduce yourself to the audience? Yes.
- [02:22]
A
Thank you so much, Sabrina. I'm excited to be here and chat about this juicy topic on your show. So my name is Brooke Jefferson. I am a wife, mom to two. We live in a small cow town in Oklahoma. We have more cows than we have people. I am a family photographer here and then also a photography business coach as well.
- [02:45]
B
Yeah, and I'm so glad to have you. It's been a minute since you were on the podcast. Like, I don't even. I need to look back and link that episode in the show notes. It's been. It's been a minute. So I'm glad you're back, excited to chat about this topic. So you reached out to me earlier this year with this idea for the discussion and immediately I was like, yes, yes, sold. Immediately. I love having guests back. I love this topic idea. So I was really, really excited because like I said, we all want more clients. You know, we all want to turn the inquiries that we're getting into paying clients. And I just knew it was going to resonate with the shoot it straight audience. So let's dive in and start at the very beginning. Do you think there's anything stopping photographers from booking more clients?
- [03:29]
A
Yes, I think that there are several things, but the most common three that I see, and this covers, this really covers everybody. Whether you are just in the beginning stages of building a photography business or you have 10 years under your belt, like I do, the first thing it all comes down to, you doubt yourself. And you're probably like, yeah, we're going to fast forward this part. That's not me. But even like 2024 was a very rough year. It was the year for me of the mental block. I mean, I even like press pause on the education stuff for a few months because I. I was just in this cycle of unbelief. And when you catch on to negativity or you pay too much attention to, you know, all the noise around you telling you the economy sucks, you know, it's a political year. It's all these things. You get so caught up in the negative mindset that it really stops you from focusing on the things that you need to do to take action. So I know this one sounds like, oh, that's not that big of a deal, but I mean, it was big enough that it halted my business and it halts so many people's businesses too. So just make sure that anytime you start to doubt yourself. Am I cut out for this? Is this really, you know, is there room for me? It's too saturated. All of those thoughts. Don't lean into those. Right. That is just. It's just a thought. You get to choose what you want to do with it. I want you to switch it and I want you to find, find an affirmation. Like, I know those are very overused terms, but it just means just replace it with. With truth or with a more positive mindset. That is the first thing that's the biggest one. And I think this is something we never outgrow, you know?
- [05:13]
B
I agree with you.
- [05:14]
A
Yeah. It's just you have to you have to learn how to deal with it.
- [05:18]
B
I feel like the way you were describing how doubt creeps in even when you've been in business for a zillion years. It's like getting the flu or a virus, you know, here we are at time of recording, it's flu season. Like, everyone's dropping like flies around us at our house and on our neighborhood, and it's the same kind of thing. Like, it just can kind of creep in. It doesn't matter if you got your flu shot. Doesn't matter if you're super healthy and you drink all your water and all that. Like, you can still be attacked by something. And I think no matter how much experience you have, those thoughts creep in. And like you said, if you allow them to latch on, then they fester into this whole big thing. And like you, I've had, you know, I've been in business forever and I've been a coach forever, and I still every once in a while have a thought about whether it's my photography business or my coaching business or am I cut out for this or who am I to be in that room. Just all those things. And you can't let them latch on because then energetically, you and I both know, it becomes this whole mess, you know, and if you're going to carry around that doubt and that negativity, the world around you is going to start to like, feed off of that. And it's just never good. So I love that that was your first one. I love it because I totally agree with you on that. So what do you think? You said there's three things. What do you think the second one is?
- [06:35]
A
Yes, and just to finish the tail end of the first one. The other thing too is when you are stuck in those mindsets, your leads and your clients can smell it from a mile away. That's why it's so important that you don't walk around just being a negative Nancy. And the other where I see this happen the most is I'm just going to use a mini session as an example. I see photographers say mini sessions don't work for me. They're never going to work for you if that is your mindset. And so anyway, that is why number one is so important. Number two, and this kind of goes into my mini session example too. And I just like to use this as an example because I think photographers, they come up with this awesome idea and they want a cash influx and so they throw up a mini session. But there's not a lot of preparation that goes into it. And so number two mistake is you don't give something enough time to really even take off. You give up before you've even hit gold. And this could look like, you know, maybe you are trying to really get into a new niche, right? You're like, okay, well, I've been doing weddings, and now I want to get out of weddings, and I want to be a family photographer. Amazing. But you're not giving yourself a long enough Runway to really let something, you know, take off. Pricing is a great example here, too. You know, you need to charge more. You know that you're ready to increase your prices or introduce a new package, but you're terrified. And so you throw it out there. You give it, what, two weeks, and then you say, never mind. Or my, no one's booking me, right? You have to give things a long enough Runway to really start taking off. And I wish I could tell you there's a time frame. Like, I really wish I could tell you that. I think a good amount of time would be, like, 90 days. Give something a minimum of 90 days to actually work. But really, especially when it comes to, like, the niche conversation. Conversation, you have to give it, like, a year sometimes, like, to really become known for something. We live in this society that is, like, we want it. Right now. You have your microwaves and your grocery pickups and all the things. And that's just not how business works. It's not meant to be an overnight thing. So that is number two.
- [08:45]
B
I love that. And I'm cracking up inside when you said that, because I coach on that so often. Like, literally just yesterday in my voxer hours with some of my mastermind students, we were talking about the same thing in different facets. Like, pricing was one of them. Like, one of my current students is going through a major price increase. And I told her, I said, we're giving this up a solid 60 days before we even talk about what's next. Like, 60 days. And then the other thing that I see often is, this even counts for when you're trying to grow your email list and you develop a new freebie. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard I developed this awesome new freebie, and I put so much time in it, and I only got seven people on my list. And I'm like, well, how much did you talk about it? Well, I shared about it on Instagram stories twice. And I'm like, that's not enough. In this world where we're all on the Internet, we're Seeing all these things, we're distracted. You have to talk about a freebie as much as a paid offer if you want to see true results. Like, you better market the heck out of it for several weeks, maybe a month, writing about it, posting about it everywhere, like you're not giving it enough time to do what you want it to do. And then I love your example about a new niche, especially if it's a pretty big pivot. You know, if you're a family photographer and you want to start doing newborns, those are kind of related. That's not that big of a pivot. But like you said, weddings to families or families to brands or something like that. I need you to think about it like you're starting a new business, because you are. And starting a new business does not explode overnight. Like you said, it's going to take you a year before you get known for that thing and you have consistent leads coming in for that thing. I don't care if you've been in business for 10 years and you have tons of experience and a really long roster in your current niche, you're starting over again. And so flipping that switch and having that expectation of, okay, I know I want to do this thing. I'm cool with it. I'm willing to be patient and put in the work and the consistency for a year before you have any conversation about did it work or not.
- [10:52]
A
Exactly. Yes. You explained that so well. And again, that's for everybody because we are all going to change something about our business at some point and you want immediate results. And I'm just going to tell you that 90% of the time, you're not going to see immediate results. And so you got to stick with it even when it gets hard. All right, number three, this one is a juicy one and we could have a whole episode about this, except that I'm not a copywriter. But it is that your messaging and your brand really, overall is vanilla. You are blending in. Now, one thing that I always say about the word saturation, you're not wrong. Okay, you're not wrong. But I look at saturation as it just means that there is a high demand for your products and there really is a high demand for high quality photographers. However, everyone else is uneducated about it. They don't understand the difference until they experience it and see it with their own two eyes. They don't understand the difference between, like an amateur photographer versus someone that is super skilled and is professional business. They don't understand it until they experience it and so how do we attract those people? It's through your messaging and it's through your branding. And so let me give you an example. Every website that I audit, I swear they all sound the same until we really infuse their brand. So the example is this is the, this is the bland, the vanilla example. I help families capture memories that will last them a lifetime. Is everyone rolling their eyes and laughing because we all have said this, right? Versus okay, this is very specific niche. I help new parents capture their babies first year through stress free in home photo sessions. Wow, that's really specific. This tells me that this photographer is actually an in home photographer and is going to capture, you know, baby's first life. That's completely different than I just help families everywhere, you know, put these memories in and freeze them in time. Right. So when you're thinking about your brand and your messaging, I want you just to get really specific with who is your target market. Yes, there's so many of us family photographers, but I bet we all serve a little bit different, you know, families. So for me, I have a lot of farmers and ranchers and so I have a more western style, if you will. And I wouldn't even say western, I guess cowboy style maybe a little bit for most of my work. I did a interview on another podcast the other day and I'm only bringing this up because it's so funny how people can recognize these things. But he's in Australia and he said, I was looking through your work and you do like this, you have this western cowboy vibe. And I'm like, that's so funny because I don't think I would have ever classified my work as that. But for someone seeing it that way, well, that's how you guys want clients and people in general to talk about you or to recognize you too. And so all that to say it's probably your messaging. And again, this could be a whole episode in and of itself.
- [14:04]
B
And I'm totally guilty of this. So I've been in business 14 years this year. And back in the beginning, like in the first year, I did what everyone else does. And my website was built based on looking around at what everybody's else's website looks like. Right. I was like, okay, this is how I need to talk about this. This is the kind of photos I need to put here. These are the pages I need. I did not blatantly copy anyone's, but I definitely used them all as examples to piecemeal my website. And that is absolutely a thousand percent not what you should do because I had, there was no personality in any in there anywhere. I wasn't brave enough to speak to like what I really truly wanted to be photographing. I wasn't trying to attract certain people. I just wanted, I wanted to be vanilla because I thought vanilla was successful. And I think this is a lesson that photograph unfortunately, like, you don't know until you know. Like, you have to learn it, you have to go through it. I think it's natural that they want to start off vanilla because vanilla looks successful. But then you get into it and you realize, why am I not connecting with my clients? Why are they asking me to do things that I hate to do? Why am I getting inquiries for stuff that I don't want to photograph? Why am I getting pushback on my prices? All of these things. And that all goes back to the fact that you're putting out vanilla. And so you've said that you're Walmart and you're getting everyone as opposed to being like, no, I want to be a high end boutique who only pulls in this particular person and being brave enough to do that. And it's, there's just so much fear there, right? Of like, well, if I stand out, people are not going to like me. And that's great. That's actually what you want. You only want the people that you're going to love to come forward. But you have to be willing to sprinkle in some personality and some branding and some very specific target audience stuff. So I love that you said messaging is the third thing with that. I think that's so amazing.
- [15:56]
A
And of course there's few more things we could sit here and talk about, but these are the main three categories, mistakes, whatever we want to call them that I see the most amount of photographers doing. And I can guarantee you every listener will raise their hand at least one. And so those are, those are the most three common ones.
- [16:13]
B
Yeah, I love that. So, okay, so we kind of started with like the group of people that we're assuming are getting inquiries and people aren't booking them. That's who we're talking about, like their, their website's bringing in traffic or their social media is bringing traffic, but for whatever reason, like people aren't converting. And it's those three things which I 100% agree with you on those three. But what if we think about the other side, the photographer who isn't closing the deal, like they truly are pulling in maybe the right inquiries, they're getting that traffic. They feel like they're doing Everything, right? They're having communication with these inquiries. They're having the opportunity to present their pricing and all of this stuff. But, like, people aren't hitting by. They're not being given their credit card. They're not getting on people's calendars. What's happening there?
- [17:04]
A
Okay, the biggest one. And it's so funny. You were talking about yesterday. You were in Voxer. Well, yesterday I was auditing one of my clients. She's a newborn photographer. And I was auditing her lead conversations, because that's a whole other ball game. This is what we're talking about. So she came to me just like you just described. Like, she does beautiful work. She has a client base. She gets leads. Like, the leads are coming, but they are not booking. And I said, okay, something's up. I need you to send me, like, literally treat me like a lead and send me your last three, and let me just dig in and see. And so here we go. Here they are. Number one is unclear pricing or packages or even overwhelming them, right? Like, they. They're still confused. Like, they feel like you gave them a menu that. Like, at a Mexican restaurant where there's like, 64 different items. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's all the same thing, but you have to look through 64 things to decide. And then the waiter says, hey, do you know what you want to order? And you're like, no, I need another minute. Compared to. You walk into, let's say, like, a burger joint. Like, five guys. You know, you're getting a burger, and you have, like, six choices, and they're like, oh, yeah, I know exactly what I want. So that's the difference there. And I want you to treat your packages like this. I don't want you to have six options. Please don't have six options. But I was giving that as an example. Six compared to 64. Very different. One of the things I saw was she had probably seven different packages, including bundles and things like that. And this is just for. For newborn. And I was like, wait a second. What? Like that. That's a lot. This. This mom is already overwhelmed. She needs an easy choice. And so I told her, like, let's narrow it down to three options at max. You can only have. You can have one or two. I've had one package for families for, like, the last five years. It's. You were here. It is. We're working together, or we're not. You know, and so that's the first thing. The other thing was she wasn't really showing what was in the package? You know what I mean? Like, it was very hard. It was like going on a scavenger hunt trying to figure out what the differences were, how many images, like, wait, what is this? What? You know, am I getting digitals? Is this ips? Like, what is this? And so I, you know, you want to make sure that when you're presenting your packages and your pricing, it is very clean and straight to the point. And I recommend communicating that in one of two ways. One, an investment or pricing guide or two, on your website is fine as long as it's clean. If they have to scroll and scroll and scroll and click, click, click, click, click. That is not delivering that the pricing and packages very clearly. So that's one mistake that I see. I'd love to hear your, your feedback on that.
- [19:49]
B
Yeah, I totally agree. The overwhelm and the clarity. I love to tell my coaching students, remember that not everybody has the same learning style. And so I actually encourage them to have a couple of different touch points that reiterate the same thing but are different. So either a video explanation with text or a phone with an email or something so that they're getting it in two directions in case their potential client is not somebody who learns well from reading. You know, if you throw three pages of them with all these options and a hundred million words on it, well, of course it's in one ear and out the other because they don't retain that kind of information. You know, they're getting confused. But I love what you said. I mean, I agree, like, please, no more than three packages. Absolutely not. Please don't. I agree with you. I've been single package for years because that's the season of life I'm in and that's what works for me. And I'm super profitable. So, you know, if you're profitable, I don't care what you do. But you need to have no more than three packages. But it needs to be spelled out so crystal clear like you're talking to a child. And use language that your client understands because as photographers, we get so roped into like high resolution files and this beautiful, you know, heirloom quality prints. And they don't know what that means. They don't know what that means. And side note, they also don't know what lifestyle means. So, you know, if you use that as all of your language for marketing, they don't understand. You have to spell it out to them. Because we tend to just use photography speak because that's what we do. And that's what we know, but our clients don't understand that. So really simplifying the messaging as much as you can. And I love your suggestion of having like visual examples. This is a great place to embed video into things and being like, this is the album that comes with this. Look how pretty it is. This is what these acrylic prints look like from all different angles. Have video in there when you can. To again, just. And I don't want to, I don't want to say this rudely, but to dumb it down so that people understand what it is they're getting and they can get excited about it.
- [21:55]
A
I say the same thing. I say dumb it down all the time. And again, not, not offensively, but if, if your packages don't make sense to a five or six year old, it's not clear enough. I mean, truly, because they say I should have looked at the statistic. But isn't it something like a certain percent of the world can't read past seventh grade. Like, they just don't understand. It's not that they can't, they just don't comprehend it past like the seventh grade reading level. So I love, love, love that you said that and I love some of the examples that you gave as well. Okay, so let's say, nope, we're good. Like check, check. I, I know that I'm doing this really, really well and I on that I'm just losing people somewhere else. The second thing is that maybe your booking process is overly complicated or it's not automated. You guys, please, for the love of all things, please get your booking process automated. If you cannot send someone a calendar where they can book in about like less than five minutes on their own without needing your assistance, that is stopping so many people because I get a lot of inquiries that come in. And the one place that I see them, even on the automated booking calendar, you guys, it will tell me, what step did they fall off on? And at least I know, okay, they opened it, they put their information in, they had selected a date. Maybe it's 10 o' clock at night. And I can see this right on my end. It shows me. And I can say, oh, she fell off on the payment. I bet you she was laying in bed and didn't want to go get her wallet out of her purse. I bet I see that booking come through in the morning. And I do. And so that's one of the biggest things. The other thing, you know, in the very beginning, I was the pin and the planner girl. So I would Carry a paper planner with me and a pen. And I would literally book my sessions that way. And we would go back and forth for days on. Does the state work all that? Oh, you have soccer. I'm so sorry. How about this date? And we would go back and forth forever. And it was just so much easier once I went digital and I actually had a booking calendar. And I made it so simple. The other mistake that I made in my booking process in the beginning was, yes, I went automated, but I wasn't requiring a retainer or a contract automatically at the same time. And so then you're chasing down your clients, trying to get them to sign, and then it was so hard. It's like they didn't want to. So all that being said, my booking process is so simple. You say, hey, Brooke, I'd love to book a session with you. I'm like, awesome. First of all, have you seen the packages and pricing? If not, here they are. Let me know what works best for you. And then here's the booking calendar. And they open it up, they pick their time, they put their information in, they sign my contract, they pay their retainer, and we are completely buttoned up, ready to go. And then I get to have fun, and I get to help them plan wardrobe. That's it. Like, that is such a more fun experience than having it, like, duct taped together and you having to, you know, manually do all these things. So that's one of the biggest things that I see is somewhere you're losing people. I know that was a lot. But one other note. I don't think all platforms are created equally. I'm not going to drop any names on this episode. I see a couple of platforms out there, and I think it's actually hurting you, your booking process, more than it is helping you, because they just make it extra complicated. That's all I'm going to say on that.
- [25:14]
B
Yeah, I love that. And I definitely agree. If the listeners here have never experienced the joy of being at the pool with their kids while a booking comes through or being on an airplane while a booking comes through, like, fully removed from the process, then you're not doing it right. Okay, I'm just going to tell you right there. If you've never experienced that process, then you are missing out on some sort of automation or simplification in your process, because you should be experiencing that. You should be experiencing bookings while you are fully removed in a spin class, on a plane, you know, literally not in touch with them at all. And if you're not that's the red flag. Okay, it should be that. But we're in a day and age where everything can be done online. And like I have multiple doctors that I don't even have to call to make appointments anymore. I can do it on their website. That is the standard expectation in our world is that we can get online and book something. I now I do hear that a lot of people are booking a call first because they're extremely high end. That's fine. I am okay with that for you. But they should be able to book that online from an email. You should not be individually coordinating when this phone call is going to be. They should be automatically able to go to your website and book a consultation if that is your workflow. And then after that call, we're on a zoom call. Had a great time. You're sending them some sort of email or workflow trigger that automates the rest. The only hand holding should be that call. And so even whether you are the book completely remotely like you are or you're the book a call first and then do it, it should be so easy for people to walk through, click the button, sign the pay the all the things. And you're right, if that's not how you're running your business right now, you are losing people because it's too complicated. And also I'm going to throw in, side note, they can smell that you're not a professional from a mile away. And I mean, I don't mean to be rude, but that's what's happening. I know, Brooke, that you have experienced the same thing I have, where maybe we hear about a service provider or something in like a Facebook group or from a friend and we're like, oh, I'm going to check them out. We go to their website and we're immediately like, hard pass. Like you can just tell. You can tell when the website is janky. You can tell when there's not a contact form. You can tell and you're like, I just know I'm not doing this. You don't want your clients to have that experience. You want them to be on the opposite end and be like, wow, this is so professional. And all the buttons are in her brand colors and it's easy. And I click through and do all these things because when you're that person, not only have they booked you seamlessly and you're making money when you're at the pool, but they already have a real good feeling about you because you have taken care of them and you have shown up as a true professional, Maybe more so than they've ever experienced with a photographer before, you know, and so they already are like, dang, I'm jazzed about working with Brooke because, man, this was so professional and so streamlined. I can't. Can only imagine how cool the session's gonna be. Right? So you've already put this, like, really positive taste in their mouth. So I love that you brought this up as one of these. One of the reasons why they're not converting well.
- [28:34]
A
And I've had an experience where I have booked someone, and the process wasn't very professional. I'm like, wait a second, where's my confirmation email? Why didn't I get. You know, you feel safe when it's buttoned up. Like, you just. You feel safe. Like, okay, I just invested all of this money into this photographer, and she. I've got this, like, I'm not worried about this going awry or this being a bad experience. And so that's another reason why your booking process is everything. And I'll tell you right now, there's something that even me and Sabrina could go fix in our booking. Like, we could. We could go button up an email or throw in an extra something. You know what I mean? And so that is. It's such a big one. Okay, there's one more thing, and this one is for everyone, and that is following up. You are losing so many leads by not handling them correctly. So I'm going to kick this one off with one. Every lead that reaches out to you is not meant to be your client, but every lead that reaches out to you is not necessarily a no. It's more like a not right now. How can you swing back by and pick me up at a later time? So I go into, you know, the conversations with the leads, and when they tell me, you know, yeah, we really want to. Things are just crazy right now. And yes, we know. Those of us that know that life never slows down, we're like, yeah, okay. We're laughing, right? Yeah. When life slows down, get back to me just knowing that it's not going to. But for some people, they really are in a season where there's just not a free day. They just cannot get by. But they do know, you know, in six months, they're going to circle back and they're going to book with you. You don't just take their word for it. Plug them into your email system, ask them, find. I want you to connect with them. Can you direct them to a Facebook group that you have, can you direct them to your email list? Can you say, hey, I know we'll work together in the future, but in the meantime, I would love it if you would join my email list. That way we can stay connected. You know what I mean? Like, that's what you want to do. You want to have a place for all of these leads to go if they don't turn into a client. The other thing is, what do you do about ghosting? Right? You've done everything right. You took all of our tips and tricks that we've told you in this episode. But they are, they're just, they're reading it. Or maybe they're not even reading it. Like, what do you do? You know, this could be a message, an email, whatever. So you have to follow up. Guys, people are so busy, so busy. We cannot automatically assume that they went with someone else just because they read it and they didn't say anything. Maybe they were opening it and they had a toddler run up to them and, you know, get in their lap and they knocked the phone on the floor and then they got distracted. This stuff happens all the time. Or have you ever been scrolling and you get a phone call, you're in the middle of something, you get a phone call, it takes over your whole screen. You forget what you were doing and then you put the phone down. So the best thing you can do is you can follow up. The fortune is in the follow up. We hear this in every business industry known to mankind. And the way that you follow up, it's not a pestering, it's not a, hey, you said you were interested. Like, look it back to me. You're going to give them a full 24 to 48 hours to respond to you first. If you don't hear anything, then you're going to simply follow up and you're just going to say something along the lines of, hey, Sabrina, were you able to look over that investment guide? Or hey, Sabrina, did you have any questions for me? Or my favorite, hey, Sabrina, did you want to get that newborn session on the books? That's all you have to do. And I typically follow up probably my first follow ups about, like I said, 24 to 48 hours. My second one is three to five days after that and my final one's a week later after that and then I stop, right? Three follow ups is good. If they haven't returned anything at that point, they're probably not interested and they just don't know how to tell you. So please, please, please follow up with People, I can't tell you how much money I left on the table in my first three to four years of my photography business by not doing this. So this is huge for anyone and everyone. Don't forget about your leads.
- [32:34]
B
I mean, everyone's busy. Like all the seasons of life are busy, but especially a lot of what we niche for are particularly busy. Newborn season, wedding season and senior season are three of the busiest seasons of life for the parents. Right. And so you know that they are reaching out in a season that is already very overwhelming. And I can't tell you how many follow up emails I have sent to potential newborn leads when they're like, oh my gosh, thank you, I totally forgot. Or I had remembered to reach out and I've already talked to my husband about it. And then I just kind of mentally thought we'd already taken care of this, you know, and it's like, no, you haven't. And so then they get on the calendar and that's great, but if I would not have followed up, I would have lost those clients. So. And I also love how you said when people specifically say, you know, now's not the right time, but I'd love to work with you in the future. Nailing down when you're going to circle back with them, that is actually something, that is a really good technique in like just general sales. Like, like outside of photography, you're selling anything and it's really, really beautiful, honestly. And you feel taken care of when you can tell them, oh, I took. That totally resonates with me. I totally get that. I would love to work with you in the future. How about I reach back with you in about three months? I'll make a note on my calendar, I'll circle back around so you don't have to remember. And it feels so seen. And then when the person actually does follow up and like, hey, I hope everything went well with whatever they were dealing with. I know you were interested in a session. I made a note on my calendar, as promised. I'd love to chat with you about getting that booked. You know, that feels so special. And to be on the receiving end of that is like, again, your clients haven't even worked with you yet. And they're like, wow, this is so professional. You're not pressuring them, you're just honoring that they needed six months or three months or whatever. And you're circling back around so that they don't even have to remember to reach out. You are going to take care of them and do it for Them.
- [34:36]
A
Yes. So good. And you can use any of this follow up technique with your own clients. So those of you that have newborn clients, let's say you do newborns and you do milestones, don't wait for them to reach back out to you, especially if they didn't book like your first year package. If you guys have a big bundle like that, that go ahead and follow up with them and just say, you know, hey, we're at the three month mark. I just wanted to check in with you or the four month mark and say, man, I can't believe it's already been four months since we did your newborn session. We're quickly approaching that six month milestone and just plant that seed. But then it's not just to get the sale. I mean, I'm, I'm assuming that you guys really do care about your clients the way that I do. Right. And so we naturally just also kind of want an update. We want, we want that life update. And so, so you guys can do this with your clients as well as your leads.
- [35:25]
B
I love that you mentioned that because I actually have that automated in my system. I have it automated to when I come home from a newborn session or a first 48 session, I plug in the baby's name and also what their actual birth date was. So then it triggers these series of emails prior to their milestones. Hey, Johnny's almost six months old. It's time to get that milestone session book. I can't tell you in the last 14 years how much money that has made me of moms who didn't have to even think about it, it who loved the reminder. And then like you said, I have the automatic booking link in there for those milestone sessions. So I will literally be, you know, in the bubble bath and I come out and I see a stripe for a milestone session. And I'm like, who was that? Because one of the automated emails came through and it's so exciting and the moms feel so seen and supported when that's happening. So I love that you brought up that suggestion because that's one of my favorite little tricks. Tricks for sure. We have covered a lot and all of it was really, really awesome. I feel like this was a masterclass in booking more clients, which is so awesome and what I was hoping and what I knew it would be. But I love to leave the listeners with something really, really tangible. And I can imagine, because we did just cover a lot, that there's probably some listeners out there that are maybe a little overwhelmed about our discussion and Maybe they started off inspired, and now they're like, oh, my God, I have to, like, overhaul everything. Could you give them one step? Like, what's the one thing they can do to take away from this episode? They can do it this week to start booking more clients.
- [36:56]
A
And, guys, I feel you. I'm a podcast listener myself. I've definitely had to stop listening to as many as I used to. But when I listened to episodes like this, where it felt like a master class, I'm like, wait a second. My brain feels fuzzy. It was so much good information. But, like, what do I do with this? So the one area that we really honed in the most and I want you to do this is I want you to go audit your booking workflow. That is the number one thing that you guys. It already exists. You already have one, whether it's automated or not. If you can just audit what you have and make it one step better, that will. That will make this episode worth it for you. The other thing I would do is you might have to listen to this a few times, take some notes, and that's totally fine, too. But how I would audit your booking workflow is I would take your. I would look at your booking process, but I would also look at how are you communicating your pricing within that booking workflow to leads. And the best people to ask is not to post it in a photography group or send it to Sabrina or send it to me. It's actually to go ask someone that is not a photographer, so maybe your best friend, a co worker, your spouse, to go through the whole thing, look at your pricing and packages, send exactly what you would if they had reached out for a session and ask them, does this make sense to you? And what would you choose or change? Right. And get their feedback, because those are the people that you are trying to dumb it down for. And again, not to be rude, not to be mean, but just so that they understand it. Because, fun, fun fact. If you ask my husband what I do, I. I would laugh at his response, okay? Because I don't think he has a freaking clue. He tells people, yeah, she takes pictures. And that's probably the extent of it. Right? And so those are the best people to ask for their feedback. So that is it. That is your one action step. And then you can come back and you can do everything we talked about.
- [38:48]
B
Yeah, I love that. And I love that recommendation to give it to somebody who is not a client, who is not a photographer. It's like you said, it's so they can Understand? Are we speaking in their language or are we speaking in our language? Is everything clear as and concise? I think that's just fantastic advice. So this has been such a cool chat. I knew, I knew new knew it was going to be. And I do want to circle back on one quick thing that you said where you said that we, you and I probably both have things that could be made better. A hundred percent. This is an ever changing process. So those of you listening who have been in business a really long time, like Brooke or I, have, you probably set up your workflow and your canned emails and your onboarding process years ago and probably haven't revisited it. It's time to revisit it. You know, maybe your language has changed a little bit. Maybe things out in the world have changed a little bit. Maybe you just haven't had fresh eyes on it in a while. It's time to look at it again and see what can be made better. Because everything can always be optimized. And so if you've been in business a long time and you're thinking, oh, I've already got that buttoned up, just have a look. Just have a look, see what's in there and make sure that it couldn't be made better, because I'm sure it could. Good. Brooke, I love to end the podcast with some, like, fun, different questions just so the audience can get to know you a little bit. And so I've got four of them for you. What is a hobby or something fun that you're pursuing this year? Just purely for joy?
- [40:15]
A
Okay, I'm gonna be so honest. When you sent me these to look over, at first I was like, oh, my gosh, what am I? How am I gonna answer these? One thing as a business owner that has always been a challenge for me is learning what to do with my free time. I'm just someone who naturally learned, loves business. I enjoy what I do, so I want to do that all the time. However, in doing that, you kind of lose yourself. And so you have to make sure that you are pursuing things for joy and for fun. And so for me, I love to read. I was very disappointed in myself with how few books I read last year. So I decided for 2025, my goal is to read 25 books, and my favorite genre is the fiction, thriller. So if you guys have suggestions, come over and shoot them in my DMs, because I'm trying to read 25. And I think I have two out of 25 done so far. Which, granted, it's February is fine.
- [41:11]
B
Okay. Good to know. I love to read as well. I read a lot. It's not a problem for me. I'm always reading a fun book and then also like a personal development type book at the same time. My daytime reading is the brain work, the personal development stuff. And then at night, every night before I go to bed, I read for at least an hour. So I get through books pretty fast. My goal for this year is 50. I almost hit it last year. I did. I got. I think I got to like, 47. I was so close. But new this year because I'm like you. I just want to work all the time. Or when I'm not working all the time, I'm doing kids stuff and mom stuff and all of that. And so I've kind of let hobbies go to the wayside other than reading. So this year I'm really making an intentional effort to, like, try stuff and do new things. And I kind. I was telling my husband just last night at dinner of hope that I'm not good at a lot of them because that'll be good for my personality type to, like, not be good at everything I try. And I don't say that to be cocky. I'm an enneagram3. Like, that's just our personality type. We just like to do things we're good at. We like to avoid things we're not good at. But this year I'm like, I'm going to try all the things, and I hope I'm really terrible at some of them. So I actually just buttoned up getting, like, a workshop for watercolor for beginners. And I'm so excited about it because I'm going to be terrible, but it's going to be so fun.
- [42:34]
A
I am the worst painter known to mankind. My grandmother is like a professional artist, and so I can't even be in the same room with her when I'm painting. So I love that for you.
- [42:45]
B
Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be fun. I'm excited. I'm already going into it with the right energy. It's just totally for playful joy. Okay, second question. What's something that you are always available to talk about?
- [42:57]
A
So besides business strategy again? I just told you guys I. What I do. I could have listed a thousand photography topics, but I'm not. I'm actually going to say my. My Christian faith. So I will never get over hearing people's testimonies and how God has answered their prayers or done something miraculous. In fact, another thing that I think I do purely for joy is I will listen to YouTube videos, whether they're sermons or people's testimonies or whatever. So. So I would say that because it never gets boring. Like, it never gets old. You're just constantly amazed and in awe that. That God is so good. So that is something I can talk about 24 7.
- [43:38]
B
Yeah, I love that. I'm the same way. If you get me going on, like, tell me stories of God's faithfulness and tell me when he showed up in your life, just all of that kind of stuff. I love sharing those. And I'm in a season of life now where I've got older kids, and so I'm really able to, like. Like, we're beyond the life, like, preschool Bible stories, and we're starting to, like, share those experiences. I've got a daughter who's 17, and it's just really cool to get to actually start sharing your story with them. And so I love that mine is probably the polar opposite of that. My answer for that. The listening audience knows what I'm going to say already, but I can talk about Taylor Swift lore for hours. Don't even get me started. It's. It's really ridiculous. But everybody has their pop culture thing. I don't watch tv. I'm not like a Real Housewives person. I don't get into whatever. But that's my pop culture, like, mild obsession.
- [44:37]
A
It's just.
- [44:38]
B
It's hilarious. Taylor Swift lore and all of the theories about all kinds of stuff. It's wild and hilarious. So I can talk about it for hours. Okay, I'm curious. What is something that you have up your sleeve for this year? Year.
- [44:51]
A
Okay, so one of the things that I wanted to do was travel more, I feel like. And this was my goal in 2020. Right. I set out to 2020 was going to be the year that I took the most flights and the most trips. And then we all know what happened. I landed in Atlanta, Georgia, or I was flying out, I should say I was flying out of Atlanta, Georgia, headed back to dfw. And I ended up. That day is when all these people. This was seven days before the world shut down is when our plane landed. Like, it was insane. And so obviously that stole all of my travel. And so last year, I was able to go on one trip, and then I was like, oh, the travel bug came back. The one thing that I have up my sleeve for 2025, several trips have already been booked, and I'm so stinking excited. But I think I am actually going to finally put together an in person photography business retreat that I've been talking about since like 2019. I think it's finally going to happen this year. And so what's different about the retreat I have in mind though is it's not going to be your average photography retreat where you show up and and you're shooting like 90 of the time. This is about business. This is like free the photographer themselves to just sit back, put your get your goals together. We're going to recharge, we're going to have fun, but we're also going to get all that marketing content that just drains all of that us. And so fingers crossed that this actually happens because now that I've said it out loud on a public platform, I don't have a choice. That has to happen. So.
- [46:24]
B
Okay. I love that for you. Obviously, you know, I'm a huge retreat fan. I host lots and lots of them and they're literally the best ever. So I'm super excited for you and your audience and your people to get to do that. They are just absolutely magical and transformational both for the people that attend and also for the host post. So that's super awesome. For me. Up my sleeve is this is kind of a backwards answer but is there's a lot of unknown up my sleeve. I actually ended 2024 deciding to release several big parts of my business and not take them with me into 2025. And I'm not sure what that looks like yet. Like we haven't gotten to that part of the year. This is really going to be a second half of the year things. I feel intuitively that something else is coming and I'm making space for something but I don't know what that is yet. But I'm really excited about it. I'm not in this place of fear. Even though I'm like, you know, turning away a bunch of revenue because these things were working and were great and were real big revenue drivers for my business. I know that it was time to set them down and I'm really excited to see what comes in to fill the gap.
- [47:35]
A
So I'm so excited for you because I sat in that exact same season of and I told my husband out loud, I said listen and I just, I just feel it like all the way to my soul. Something is going to happen for us. It's going to be huge. I don't know if it's you, I don't know if it's me. I don't know if it's us. And so it is such a fun season. I don't like surprises, but I also love the piece that came with it and so that's what carried me. So I'm so excited for you. I can't wait to see how that pans out.
- [48:05]
B
Yeah, I am too. And I think, you know, I've told this story in the podcast before, but a lot of of people in earlier in their business and, and me too. Years ago I would have been terrified of the unknown, but I am in such a place of confidence and trust and I just know I. I just, I'm like, it's gonna be awesome. I don't know what it is, but I can't wait to get there, you know, so I'm really excited. Okay, last question for you. What is a business tool or a hack that you're loving right now?
- [48:37]
A
So I can't seem to shut up about Flow Desk. I think it's because as we're recording this, I just got done with a whole week of email marketing training. I'm a Flodesk partner and so that's just where all of my time and energy has been this week. However, I really do love email marketing. I think that's why it's my favorite. I love that they're so intentional and thinking of creatives first. That's who it was built for. And yeah, there's several other, you know, platforms out there, but it's my favorite in my business because I've seen it have such big returns. Learn it. Those emails, it's just so fun to watch people join your list and you never know which email is going to be the one for them that makes them jump off the fence. And I think that's so exciting. So I would say flodesk.
- [49:21]
B
Yeah, I love Flodesk and it's mind blowing to me that not all photographers use it yet. I'm like, but why? But why? We've been talking about it for years and it's amazing and it just keeps getting better and better. Like, why haven't you joined us yet? Come on over. The water's nice. Nice. I love flodesk. I think for me, a business tool or hack that I'm loving right now. Oh my gosh. This is so interesting. This is an interesting question that I didn't think through ahead of time. For myself, my answer is always outsourcing. I'm to a place where I have a fairly large team now and definitely all of the listeners don't need all the people in their pocket that I have. But I have gotten to the point where I've outsourced just about everything that doesn't require me and my faith space. And it's a really awesome place to be. Yes, my expenses are really high and would make a lot of you cringe, but I. It's worth it to me to have time and bandwidth and energy to do other things. That's the season of life that I'm in. I want to outsource as much as possible. I don't want to do any of those things. And so if you have not outsourced one thing yet, it's time.
- [50:31]
A
Time.
- [50:32]
B
Make 2025 the year that you give yourself the gift of time. Pay somebody to do something for you that will either better your business or take something off your plate that you don't like or you're not good at. It's a game changer.
- [50:44]
A
So good. Yes, I just outsourced. I just came home for seven months. I told you. I took a break last year for seven months. I went and I worked insurance, and I was in the office Monday through Thursday, and I. I hated it. I mean, and God humbled me so much and taught me so much about myself, and then he was so faithful to bring me back home. And it's like, I just have this, like, I just. I'm here. This is my purpose. This is my passion. And so this was my first full week back home. And I was like, okay, it's just me right now in the business. Besides podcast editing. That's. I will never edit a podcast. That is. Natalie's too good for me to do that. So anyway, I was like, I can do all of this. I'm prepping for a launch. It's a one woman show. I know many of you listening. You're like, that's me. One woman show. And so I was just really on the fence about. Okay, well, I can either take some time out of my Saturday and sit down and get graphics done, or I can hire the girl who will always outperform me every single time. And so I outsourced that yesterday, and it's just like, I gave myself the gift of time. Yes. So good for you. I'm. I'm so excited that outsourcing is something you're obsessed with.
- [51:53]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I'm literally, every year, I keep being like, what else can I outsource? Is there anything left? I think I'm to the point now where there's nothing left.
- [52:02]
A
I love that.
- [52:03]
B
Yeah. I'm so happy you gave yourself that gift, because time's the one thing that we can't make more of. You can make more money and you will make more money, but you're not getting that Saturday back, so I love that girl. This was such a good chat. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing all of your wisdom and all of these nuggets. Again, this was truly a masterclass in booking more clients. I can't wait to hear the feedback we get for this episode. Will you tell the audience where they can find you? Because I know they're going to want to reach out and connect. Connect, yes.
- [52:29]
A
Okay, so come on over to Instagram. It's my favorite platform. Even when it's not being kind to me and trying to lower the views. Whatever. My Instagram is at Brooke Janae Photo. So you can come find me over there. Send me a dm. I. Seriously, as podcasters, we don't know who you guys are until you tell us. That is the worst part about podcasting. We feel like it's a one way conversation until you make it a two way conversation. So I want to hear your biggest takeaway. Or if you have an additional question that maybe we weren't clear on, I'd be more than happy to answer it. And you're listening to a podcast right now, so come on over to mine and take a listen as well. It is the book More Photography Clients Podcast.
- [53:11]
B
And you're so right. When I get a DM from somebody and they're like, I listened to your episode today and blah, blah, blah, it's literally, those are like the best dms because it. It puts a face to our listeners and we get to hear actual feedback. So great suggestion. I love that. Okay. This was so great. Thanks for being here today, my friend. That is it, audience, we will see you next week.