Book Riot – The Podcast

Episode Title: Americans are Reading for Pleasure Less. A Lot Less.
Date: August 25, 2025
Hosts: Jeff O’Neal & Rebecca Schinsky

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jeff and Rebecca dive into new releases, publishing trends, and industry news. The core discussion centers on a recent New York Times report highlighting a drastic decline—about 40%—in Americans reading for pleasure over the past 20 years. The hosts also examine the recent controversy surrounding the Polari Prize, upcoming book adaptations, the aesthetics of book design, and the ethics of ghostwritten memoirs for retirees. Throughout, the conversation explores what’s at stake for literary culture as social and technological shifts reshape reading habits.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Publishing Industry News: Imprints and Cataloging Woes

• [04:04] Jeff expresses frustration over the proliferation of publishing imprints, making it difficult to find and track new releases—especially for industry insiders.
  • "There are not only too many books in the fall, they're just too many imprints."
• [04:26] Rebecca notes how quickly imprint family trees become outdated, making it hard for even well-versed readers or critics to keep up.
  • "As soon as you have made a flowchart or like a family tree of all the imprints somewhere, that thing becomes out of date."
• [06:24] Both agree that imprints matter mostly to those within publishing, not to general readers.
  • "What an imprint is is only meaningful to a first approximation to the people who work at that imprint."

2. Polari Prize Controversy & Calls for Inclusion

• [12:21] Discussion arises about the Polari Prize pausing for a year after controversy over the nomination of John Boyne, known for transphobic stances.
• [12:25] Rebecca stresses the importance of diversity among judges:
  • “This is one of the things that we’re talking about when we talk about why diversity makes things better. When you have other voices in the room, you are less likely to make this kind of mistake.”
• [14:05] Jeff advocates for clear values and boundaries in such organizations:
  • "Trans women are women. That's what we believe here. Authors and books that don't support that, affirm that, recognize that are not gonna be nominated."
• [16:29] Both see this as a hard but necessary correction for Polari and similar organizations.

3. Katabasis: The Next Big Thing

• [17:42] News breaks that Amazon is working on a series adaptation of R.F. Kuang’s anticipated novel Katabasis, launching a broader discussion of adaptation points in their fantasy league.
  • “The headline here is that Amazon is working on a series based on Katabasis.” – Jeff [18:00]
• [20:59] Rebecca gives a (spoiler-free) mini-review of Katabasis:
  • "I really liked it. It was a lot of fun... It was great. It was a lot of fun... there’s a whole lot of Dante and Virgil and Aeneid quotes and references to old philosophers."
  • “I think it's like, well, what I said in Today in Books this morning is it's like if Dante's Inferno and The Secret History had a baby and that baby's favorite TV show was The Good Place.”
• [22:20] They discuss the book’s hybrid genre status – “commercial fantasy... upmarket... a satire,” with high literary allusions but wide accessibility.

4. The Spreadges (Decorated Book Edges) Debate

• [23:05] Jeff laments the overuse of fancy book edges ("spreadges”):
  • “It's now star bellied sneetches situation where everyone has a star so no one's special.”
  • “That it has spreadges or a foiled cover no longer tells you something useful about what kind of book you’re reading.” – Rebecca [24:56]
• [25:46] There’s consensus that book aesthetics no longer signal genre or quality, and the trend is flattening design meaning.

5. Main Topic: The Steep Decline in Reading for Pleasure

• [26:18] Rebecca introduces the New York Times piece reporting a 40% drop in American adults reading for pleasure between 2003 and 2023 (from 28% to 16%).
• [27:06] Survey methodology: based on the American Time Use Survey; “almost a quarter of a million Americans took it over those 20 years.”
• [30:22] Rebecca expresses deep concern:
  • "Which concerns me like I clutched my pearls a little bit and really got them out."
  • She ties the decline to an “algorithmic, post-literate” era—politics and culture shaped for non-readers.
• [31:44] Jeff views the decline as a function of social and technological shifts:
  • “That tracks... In 2005, we got Facebook. In 2006, we got Twitter. In 2007, we got the iPhone... I think the algorithmic social media feed on your phone is a cigarette. It's an attention cigarette. And I think this is just the phones." [34:51]

Sociocultural Concerns

• [35:53] Rebecca says the screens create a “self-perpetuating cycle”—the news cycle is overwhelming and attention spans are depleted.
• [37:23] There’s cautious hope that younger generations and new policies may help "turn the tide" (e.g., cell phone bans in schools).
  • “I would like to see us talk about better regulations around social media and the internet.”

The Solace and Significance of Books

• [39:17] Jeff points out one silver lining: “the amount of time spent reading by those who read for pleasure increased from 1 hour and 23 minutes a day in 2003 to 1 hour and 37 minutes in 2023.”
• [41:36] Rebecca and Jeff affirm the unique cognitive and emotional value of long-form, focused reading:
  • “To read and for a sustained period of time, to listen to an audiobook for a sustained period of time and engage with what a text is saying and what it's asking us to think about... that feels nourishing in a way that I have never felt scrolling on Instagram.” – Rebecca

Literary Taste & Reading Snobbery

• [43:20] The hosts reflect on debates about “highbrow” vs. “commercial” reading. Jeff proposes:
  • “As part of the detente about ‘read what you want’... we’re going to be cool about people reading Dragon romances, but we’re also going to be cool about someone liking Infinite Jest.” [43:58]
• [44:41] Rebecca agrees: “If a person is out there saying read whatever you want... they don’t get to turn around and tell a person who reads something that’s traditionally thought of as more literary... that you don’t get to denigrate that person or tell them that they’re a snob.”

6. Ghostwritten Family Memoirs: Connection or Exploitation?

• [52:30] Rebecca and Jeff react to a Wall Street Journal article on wealthy retirees commissioning expensive ghostwritten memoirs for their heirs.
• Rebecca: “There’s a lot of like really human need on display here. But this piece made me sad.” [53:47]
• Jeff finds it more strange than sad, questioning whether the intended connection is actually achieved.
• [55:44] Both acknowledge cheaper and more accessible options (like Storyworth) exist.

7. Frontlist Foyer: Recent Reads and Recommendations

Rebecca

• Katabasis by R.F. Kuang – “A very, very good book that fits a special place in the market right now.” [61:00]
• Church Camp by Kara Meredith – Explores and critiques the history of evangelical youth camps.
  • “I really appreciate how thoughtful it was and that she's trying to encourage a more inclusive movement there.” [63:56]

Jeff

• Abundance by Ezra Klein and Thompson – Advocates for a positive, “abundance”-oriented vision for the future; Jeff finds it “utopian” but valuable for starting conversations about tradeoffs and progress.
• Endling by Maria Riva – A genre-blurring, structurally unusual novel set in Ukraine, blending feminist protest, snails, and metafiction.
  • “There’s so much going on... it got my senses going... I’m really glad I gave it a chance.” [77:23]

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Polari Prize Discussion & Diversity:
  • “When you have other voices in the room, you are less likely to make this kind of mistake.” – Rebecca [12:25]
  • “Trans women are women. That's what we believe here.” – Jeff [14:05]
• On Spreadge Overkill:
  • “It's now star bellied sneetches situation where everyone has a star, so no one's special.” – Jeff [23:12]
• Reading Decline Data:
  • “In 2004... 28% of Americans said that they read for pleasure... in 2023, we're at 16% of people.” – Rebecca [27:06]
• Technology as the Root Cause:
  • “The algorithmic social media feed on your phone is a cigarette. It's an attention cigarette. And I think this is just the phones.” – Jeff [34:51]
• On Deep Reading:
  • “To read and for a sustained period of time... that feels nourishing in a way that I have never felt scrolling on Instagram.” – Rebecca [41:36]
• Literary Snobbery:
  • “We're going to be cool about people reading dragon romances, but we're also going to be cool about someone liking Infinite Jest.” – Jeff [43:58]
  • “It should cut both ways.” – Rebecca [44:10]

Episode Highlights by Timestamp

• [04:04 - 07:34] – Publishing industry imprints and insider struggles with cataloging.
• [12:21 - 17:26] – Polari Prize controversy and organizational diversity.
• [17:42 - 22:43] – Katabasis review & adaptation news, including genre discussion.
• [23:05 - 26:16] – Spreadges debate and what book aesthetics mean now.
• [26:18 - 33:41] – Declining rates of pleasure reading in America; broader implications.
• [35:53 - 41:36] – Phones as the “attention cigarette,” pessimism on cultural trajectory, and hope for a generational pivot.
• [43:08 - 47:31] – Literary taste, snobbery discourse, and “reading detente.”
• [52:30 - 59:43] – Retirees, ghostwritten memoirs, and the search for intergenerational connection.
• [60:03 - 77:23] – Frontlist foyer: recent and upcoming book recommendations.

Tone & Language

Conversational, intellectually lively, and occasionally wry. The hosts are unafraid of “insider baseball” but regularly step back to reflect on why these debates matter for broader book culture. The episode alternates between humor and thoughtful concern, especially in the face of sobering statistics about reading habits.

For Further Listening/Reading

• NYT: "Americans Are Reading for Pleasure Less. A Lot Less." by Maggie Astor
• Maggie Astor (@MaggieAstor’s) analysis on public reading habits
• VOX: “Lolita: 70 Years Later” by Constance Grady
• Anne Helen Petersen's "Culture Study" interview with Kara Meredith
• Wall Street Journal: “Wealthy Retirees Are Paying Up for Ghostwritten Memoirs”
• Book Riot Frontlist and Today in Books newsletters

This summary delivers all the crucial talking points, memorable moments, and illustrative quotes for listeners wanting a comprehensive, content-rich overview of the episode—especially those concerned about the future of pleasure reading in America.