Liberty Hardy (3:48)

Yeah. An infinite number. I could. I could go on forever.

Unknown Speaker 2 (3:52)

How many?

Liberty Hardy (3:53)

Like, fame I'm gonna live forever.

Unknown Speaker 2 (3:55)

Yeah. Fame. I'm gonna read forever. So I didn't go back into the archives. How different is the show now than when you and Rebecca first started doing it? You know, my. On how many ever years ago that was.

Liberty Hardy (4:06)

I don't think it's that different at all. I mean, except for the fact that. Well, okay, I take that back. There are a couple of big changes that happened. First, we started doing a different co host every week.

Unknown Speaker 2 (4:19)

Right.

Liberty Hardy (4:19)

Because who wants to read that many books with me every week?

Unknown Speaker 2 (4:22)

We would like to keep up with you, Lynn. It's like we need different horses for the post office to get the mail there. Like, we just can't do it.

Liberty Hardy (4:31)

So there's a different host every week with me, and we cut it back because, you know, four books a week is a lot. And so now it's two books that we've read and two books that we're excited to read. And I was actually doing really well, like, reading most of all of my four anyway, but then, you know, health issues got in the way, so now I'm lucky to, like, get the. The two, so. Plus, I've gotten older. I'm 10 years older.

Unknown Speaker 2 (4:58)

I know I was.

Liberty Hardy (4:59)

You know, I wear glasses now.

Unknown Speaker 2 (5:02)

I couldn't remember Carrie Fisher's last name yesterday. And I grew up. I mean, that's a real sign, Lib, that we're getting older. Yeah, it is. Tr. True. I've got reading glasses. I've got multiple pairs of glasses to get through me, through my day. Not just one pair, multiple pairs.

Liberty Hardy (5:14)

Yeah, it's like, it's. It's completely different. I was like, I put my glasses on to read. I take them off to watch the basketball game. Sometimes I forget to take them off, and then I'm like, why are all these players so fuzzy? I understand this. The sick. I'm never go to the glasses. The first time I was like, the signal must be wrong.

Unknown Speaker 2 (5:31)

Well, in those Celtics game that. Those. That parquet floor is rough on your eyes. If it's not sharp, it just looks real fuzzy.

Liberty Hardy (5:37)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (5:38)

There in the garden. So.

Liberty Hardy (5:39)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (5:40)

What do you think? Are you nervous about the Celtics? They were playing well. Their defense is good. They're kind of taking a little easy, as if. As far as I can tell.

Liberty Hardy (5:46)

Well, they've stepped it up the last couple of games, which they do. But, I mean, I read like, yeah, the Knicks are not having a good time. That was like the third game in a row where they lost by a lot. But, I mean, the last game was like, the record loss, which is the most points I've ever lost by. But forget the Knicks. Yeah, no, I just. I think they're okay. Like, I've also been reading a lot about, like, it's called Championship hangover.

Unknown Speaker 2 (6:08)

Yes.

Liberty Hardy (6:09)

You know, and. And they have this natural inclination, not just teams, but, like an individual games. Like, if you're playing somebody who has, like, a terrible record or you're beat, like. Like last night they played the Knicks. They were winning by 26. Then they got down. They cut it down to four. You know, like, you just kind of take your foot off the gas because you're like, yeah, this is easy. And, you know, but I mean, that leads me into, like, a whole bunch of other questions about basketball and basketball players and, like, injuries and all this stuff. So, like, we'll save that for another.

Unknown Speaker 2 (6:36)

Yeah, that's where we can do an After Dark about this. I mean, you know more about the NBA than I do at this point.

Liberty Hardy (6:41)

I am obsessed.

Unknown Speaker 2 (6:42)

And is that relatively recently? Because 500 episodes of all the books. It wasn't. You weren't like a Celtics Die Hard as far as I remember.

Liberty Hardy (6:49)

No, When I was a little kid, my dad watched all the games and I was a huge fan. You know, I love Larry Bird, I love Robert Parrish. And then I went to a few games, like in the early aughts. And then like. But like, I didn't have a TV. Like, I didn't have a TV from 95 to 2011.

Unknown Speaker 2 (7:07)

Makes it hard to watch the games.

Liberty Hardy (7:08)

Yeah, yeah. And I didn't really think about it. And then a few years ago, my niece's husband was like, talking about the Celtics and I was like, I should watch a game. And then I was just like, boom.

Unknown Speaker 2 (7:16)

Well, they're good.

Liberty Hardy (7:17)

I mean, I'm watching all the games in the NBA. I get the league pass and like, oh, wow, that's a lot. Are.

Unknown Speaker 2 (7:23)

Do you. Are you into the. Are you in so deep where you're listening to like NBA podcasts and stuff? Have you gone full dark on it?

Liberty Hardy (7:28)

Not that, no. I do read, like all the articles on the Sports Illustrated NBA page and like follow along the news on Instagram and stuff. Breaking news, you know, shams and like.

Unknown Speaker 2 (7:41)

Yep, yep.

Liberty Hardy (7:42)

It's fun because it's like my soap opera. It's like a soap opera to me. Like, I'm so much more interested everything but the actual play.

Unknown Speaker 2 (7:49)

It is true with NBA basketball particularly. It's kind of the sweet spot for a soap opera replacement because the characters are there like every other day, you know, for three, two or three hours.

Liberty Hardy (8:00)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (8:00)

And you, unlike football, you can see their faces and aren't that many of them. Right. So like personality. You're reading body languages and you follow them over multiple years. And with Tatum and Brown, like, that's been multiple years now. That's really fun. When you have got players in there, you got a young core that's going to be there for some time. Yeah, the NBA is. The NBA can be a fun hang. I'll give you a. I don't watch that much NBA, but I listen to a couple of NBA podcasts. I don't know why. I kind of follow the trailblazers here. It is. It is just fun. I'm gonna get back to they killed.

Liberty Hardy (8:29)

The Hornets the other night, like 50 something.

Unknown Speaker 2 (8:33)

I mean, a young team with a little bit of talent can be. It's like a teenager. Like, some days they're like amazing and everything's going well. And some days it's like, can you literally. Did you literally forget how to tie your shoes? Like, I'm not kidding. Seriously, tie your shoes.

Kelsey McKinney (8:48)

This episode is sponsored by Hachette Audio and you didn't hear this from me. Mostly True Notes on Gossip by Kelsey McKinney stick around after the show to hear an excerpt from the audiobook read by Kelsey McKinney herself. When the pandemic forced us to all socialize at a distance, Kelsey McKinney, like a lot of us, was mourning the juicy updates and jaw dropping stories that she'd typically collect over drinks with friends. And that is how the blockbuster Normal Gossip podcast was born. With the success of the show, like to the tune of millions of listeners, Kelsey found herself thinking more critically about gossip as a form and wanting to better understand the role it plays in our culture. In youn Didn't Hear this from me, McKinney explores the murkiness of everyday storytelling, like why gossip is considered a sin and how we can better recognize when it's being weaponized. Like why do we think we're entitled to every detail of a celebrity's personal life? And how do we define gossip? To begin with, the book asks these big questions, but also hopes to capture the heart of gossiping, that specific kind of fun that it could be to lean over and whisper something a little juicy into your friend's ear. A little chisme, if you will. This book is perfect for fans of the Normal Gossip podcast as well as gossip fans everywhere. But thank you once again to Hachette Audio and you didn't hear this from me by Kelsey McKinney for sponsoring today's show.

Unknown Speaker 3 (10:03)

Today's episode is brought to you by the Beasts we Bury by D.L. taylor. Daughter and heir to the throne, Mansella Cliff yearns for a life without bloodshed. But as a child, she emerged from the broken citadel with the power to summon animals only after killing them first. So her magic is a constant reminder of the horrors her father, the ruler of the realm, has forced upon her to strengthen their power. Now Silver, on the other hand, is a charming thief struggling to survive in a world torn apart by Mansella's father's reign. When a mysterious benefactor recruits him for the heist of a lifetime, a chance to rob the castle, Silver relishes the opportunity for a real future and for some nice, sweet revenge. So this story is told in dual points of view. It has an electric enemies to lovers romantasy, featuring the beloved one bed trope, the will they won't, they will keep you on the edge of your seat. This is perfect for fans of fantasy authors like Margaret Owens, Mary Pearson and others. Make sure to check it out. And thanks again to the Beast we bury by D.L. taylor for sponsoring this episode. Today's episode is brought to you by Flat Iron Books, publisher of A Killing Cold by Kate Alice Marshall. When Theodora met Connor, wealthy, charming, and a member of the powerful Daltons, she fell in love instantly. Six months later, he's brought her to Idlewild, his family's isolated winter retreat. Thea tried to ignore the threatening messages on her phone, but she can't ignore the footprints outside her cabin window or the strange sense of familiarity she has. Then, in a disused cabin, Thea finds something impossible. A photo of herself as a child taken at Idlewild. Someone here has a shocking secret that they will do any to keep hidden. And discovering what happened at Idlewild may cost Theo everything. So this is obviously a great mystery slash thriller. It has wealthy family with secrets. Trope, secluded cabin during winter. Trope memory loss that's starting to return. Trope. And Kate Alice Marshall has previously written thrillers like what Lies in the woods and no One Can Know. Make sure to check out A Killing Cold by Kate Alice Marshall. And thanks again to Flatiron Books for sponsoring this episode.

Unknown Speaker 2 (12:21)

Back to all the books. So, 500 episodes ago, I think the origin was that. Because that came out of, I think you and Rebecca doing well, redheads on the site. Is that right? Is that how the idea for the pod happened? Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (12:34)

Yeah. And I had just left my job as a bookseller, right. So I was like, what am I gonna do?

Unknown Speaker 2 (12:41)

Do you remember?

Liberty Hardy (12:41)

Y'all were like, episodes?

Unknown Speaker 2 (12:43)

Were you. How nervous were you?

Liberty Hardy (12:44)

Oh, my goodness. So nervous. So nervous. So I have always been. I know I don't sound like it, but I've always been terribly shy. I'm very shy in public. Plus, I can only hear out of one ear. So most people think I'm ignoring them, and they just think I'm very rude when, like, I'm out somewhere and they talk to me and I don't. I don't respond. But it's actual that, you know, very shy. But it was just, I think, three times in the first recording. Like, I just stopped speaking. It's my airplane panic, which I get on airplanes. I don't like to fly. And so I just have to stop speaking because I'm afraid if I open my mouth, I'll just start screaming. And I don't because, like, Rebecca's like, it's going to be easy, and it's going to get easier as it goes along. And that really didn't happen that much. I have stopped, like, the airplane panic. But, I mean, I was just covered in Sweat when we were finished. And I was also afraid of public speaking, which I got over.

Unknown Speaker 2 (13:39)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (13:39)

Four or five years ago. Like, one day I just got over it, and that was great. But I still am more nervous to record the podcast.

Unknown Speaker 2 (13:46)

I'll come back to that. Keep going. So you're recording the podcast, but eventually got used to it. So just one day, because you've hosted a lot of events and stuff at bookstores and with authors, and that's something you're really good at. So do you remember the day what happened?

Liberty Hardy (13:57)

Absolutely. So it was my very first event, getting up in front of an audience. They had asked me to go to Portland, Maine, and interview Madeline Miller, and I said yes. And then I was like, why did I say yes? Why did I say yes? Why did I, like, seriously? I was very upset about it. And I'm driving up to Portland, you know, it's like an hour from my house, and main traffic in the summer is like, you know, forget it. Right.

Unknown Speaker 2 (14:20)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (14:20)

So I'm stuck on 295 in traffic, and I'm just sitting there, and I'm almost in tears, and I think I'm going to be sick because I'm so nervous. And all of a sudden I just went, this is supposed to be fun. There are people doing things right now that they don't want to do, that they have to do. There are terrible things happening to people right now. And you are acting like a baby about going to talk to another in front of an audience and that. And, like, being nervous is okay. Like, I'm not saying other people are babies, but, like, that's what I was, like, telling myself. And it worked. And so now I just, like, get up in front of people because I'm like, hey, like, why not embarrass myself in front of people? Like, look at me. Like, they expect me to, you know, And. And it's. But when I record in the office by myself, I'm still, like, much more nervous. I don't know why. I just want to do a good job.

Unknown Speaker 2 (15:09)

Well, I think that's. I mean, there's a couple. I mean, fear is one thing. Like, you were talking about sort of a panicky fear. And that's different than being nervous and wanting to do a good job. I still. You know, for First Edition, I've interviewed some people that I really admire, and I realize I get nervous not because I'm afraid. I just want to do a good job. It's not even like I'm worried about embarrassing myself. I just want to do A good job for the show. And, like, I want people, when they tune in, to have a good 30 to 45 minutes. And sometimes I'm worried that I'm up to the task. It's not really about. It's not kind of one of those. It's not like a dream where you get up in front of people and it's just you and your underwear kind of a feeling. It's more. I just don't want to screw it up as much as I'm worried about being embarrassed, I think. Think at this point.

Liberty Hardy (15:50)

Well, I mean, books are so important to me.

Unknown Speaker 2 (15:53)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (15:54)

You know, like, I know if you look at me, you can just work backwards and tell that. I had a really rotten childhood. And so I spent a lot of time reading and just being around books all the time because my mom was a librarian, and I want to help people find those books that make them feel safe or make them happy when they're sad or, you know, And I put a lot on that. I mean, I put that on myself. I know, but, like, it's important to have those books, you know? Like, I know people who are like, reading, like, what? Why would you want to do that? And I. I'm just like. Because it gets me through the day.

Unknown Speaker 2 (16:27)

Because I'm literally here because your life, in many ways.

Liberty Hardy (16:30)

Yeah, absolutely. So I get very nervous. But, yeah, I will say so. The Madeline Miller event. Right. Like, I psyched myself up. I'm like, I'm gonna do this. Then I got there, I started to get very nervous again, and they put me in the green room, and there was a balloon dog, like, sitting on the couch because they had had a clown there earlier in the day for the kids.

Unknown Speaker 2 (16:47)

Oh, no.

Liberty Hardy (16:48)

And I'm, like, getting nervous, and I'm looking at this balloon dog, and the woman who was going to introduce me comes in, and she was much older, and she's like, oh, hello. She's like, oh, what is that? And I said, this is my emotional support balloon dog. And she just gave me this look that carried me through the event, like. Like, I just wanted to burst out laughing because she didn't think it was funny and, like, that. I just kept thinking about that, like, while I was on stage, and it just got me through.

Unknown Speaker 2 (17:13)

Well, I'm here to say that's objectively funny. That's not your fault. That was very good. I wish I thought it was quick and like.

Liberty Hardy (17:19)

But no, she was funny.

Unknown Speaker 2 (17:21)

The other thing I've realized, too, especially do more interviews and book rights. Been around for a While is that a lot of the authors are more nervous to talk to me than I am to them, or at least as nervous, especially if they're a debut author, they don't have as many in the tank. Like, when I was Talking to James McBride, like, he wasn't nervous. He done this a million times or whatever. But some other people, it's their first book or it's been a while, or, you know, because you're an author doesn't necessarily mean, like, you and I are natural or habitual speakers to other people in public settings. And a podcast is a public setting, even though you can't see the people talking to you.

Liberty Hardy (17:53)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (17:53)

I mean, I don't know if you think about this, but way more people listen to you on all the books every week that are going to cram into River Run Bookstore or Print in Portland, Maine, or something like that, like, a thousand times more.

Liberty Hardy (18:04)

Yeah, it's. It's. That's why it's so strange to me that, like, I'm not nervous in public, but I'm. And you can edit the podcast. I know you can edit, like, live events, but yet I'm still like, yeah, I don't know.

Unknown Speaker 2 (18:16)

I mean, people think I sound dumb now. You should hear before I edit this stuff.

Unknown Speaker 1 (18:19)

I mean, it's really.

Unknown Speaker 2 (18:20)

It really, really takes some work to make this look good. It's like Dolly Parton get ready for a show anymore. These days, it takes the whole team.

Liberty Hardy (18:27)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (18:28)

So the. The format hasn't changed that much or, you know, we couldn't keep up with you. And I know Rebecca's like, I can't do four books a week. That's. Everyone can do the math. That's a lot of books in a year and other stuff. And the company was getting bigger, too, and other people were doing it. So do you like having multiple co hosts or what are the strengths and weaknesses versus a. Having someone in the sidecar consistently versus the clown car rotation that we've foisted upon you.

Liberty Hardy (18:53)

Oh, I love it. You know, they're my friends, and the strength is on my side because the weakness is for them, because every time I call them, it's been a month, and I'm. And I'm, like, talking with them for, like, 50 minutes about what my life is like now because I just go.

Unknown Speaker 2 (19:06)

You know, poor Zingus's knees. You're like, are you up to date on what's going on with his knees?

Liberty Hardy (19:11)

No, but I do taunt Vanessa about the Lakers a lot, but yeah. No, I mean, it's fun, you know, because, you know, I knew all of them before we started recording. I mean, there have been multiple hosts who have. Have rotated out. You know, the four that I talk to now have been around for a long time.

Unknown Speaker 2 (19:29)

Y.

Liberty Hardy (19:29)

And no, it's great. I mean, and everybody has like different things that they like and it's just fun.

Unknown Speaker 2 (19:36)

Yeah. So talk to me a little bit about listener stuff. Do you have, do you have an email? People email you at. I can't remember.

Liberty Hardy (19:43)

We do. It's all the books@book riot.com and do.

Unknown Speaker 2 (19:45)

You check that or does someone check it for you? I. I'm seriously, don't I check it? Okay.

Liberty Hardy (19:49)

We used to get a lot of emails. We don't get as many now, but we did recently because I asked listeners to send us a couple of sentences about a book that they had heard of on the show right. In the last 500 episodes. And I don't want to step on.

Unknown Speaker 2 (20:04)

That because I'm sure that was for content, so I don't want to step on that. But if there's been people, some names that you recognize that have emailed you over the years because we have some for the brp. I was like, oh, yeah, there's like a handful of names that are like consistent emailers about.

Liberty Hardy (20:17)

I. I honestly couldn't say right now.

Unknown Speaker 2 (20:19)

Like, I'm.

Liberty Hardy (20:19)

I've completely blanked out. I'm sure there must be. You would not be surprised to learn that there are a lot of Sarahs in the book world.

Unknown Speaker 2 (20:26)

Oh, man. Yeah, there's a. There's a lot of Sarahs. I. And I think the thing that might be different about the feedback for our show is since we're doing news most of the time, like, if there's a follow up, especially if we got something wrong, boy, people will let you know about it. Whereas with recommendations, I'm not sure what the follow up was other than I really liked that book or I hated that book. You probably don't get a lot of people saying, man, you're off the mark, Hardy, what are you doing out there?

Liberty Hardy (20:48)

No, I don't think so. I mean, I don't look at like, online stuff for the show.

Unknown Speaker 2 (20:54)

Neither do I.

Liberty Hardy (20:56)

Like, that's like that. That was like, my rule is like, I'm not looking at that.

Unknown Speaker 2 (21:00)

Yeah, that is, that is the bad place to do that.

Liberty Hardy (21:03)

But I mean, like, most people are like, so nice. You know, our listeners are so nice. You know, we, we really have it, have it easy, I think, because it's a great Audience of people who want to hear about books being talked about by real people.

Unknown Speaker 2 (21:17)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (21:18)

So, you know, that's what we do. And, you know, sometimes I'll be talking, and I'm like, oh, my goodness, they must be like, what is this weird Muppet going on about? You know? And, I mean, it. It sounds weird, but, like, I'm a very solitary creature, and I. Right now, you know, with my illness and. And stuff, I can't drive. I'm just in my house. So I only speak to my husband and my cats or to the podcast or to the person that, you know, I'm recording with. So that's it. So, like, sometimes I just get going on the show, and I'm like, I did this. And there are birds, and they're like, you know, I get off. It's like my. My podcast diary. Dear diary, this week there was a bluebird.

Unknown Speaker 2 (21:58)

Yeah, well, I mean, I'm. I'm not quite like that, though. I am an introvert, and I've got this. I work a lot, and then I've got the kids in the house, and I don't. I'm not getting out that much. But I talk to Rebecca twice a week, so I do first edition. It's a meaningful part of my own non. I mean, it's work, but it's kind of not. I mean, it's a third thing somehow between just talking to people and working.

Liberty Hardy (22:20)

Yeah. It doesn't. It doesn't feel like work, like, to.

Unknown Speaker 2 (22:25)

Me, except I'm tired after even talking to you, which is easy for 45 minutes. I'm pretty tired after recording a pot. Are you?

Liberty Hardy (22:33)

No, no. I'm sweaty. I'm still very nervous, working hard.

Unknown Speaker 2 (22:36)

Oh, you're nervous.

Liberty Hardy (22:38)

Yeah. Still, to this day, every time.

Unknown Speaker 2 (22:40)

Do you ever get to the point in recording a show where you forget you're recording?

Unknown Speaker 1 (22:44)

I don't.

Unknown Speaker 2 (22:44)

Like, you're just talking.

Liberty Hardy (22:45)

So I do that sometimes. I don't think. I mean, it feels easy, like. But, like, I. I'm always like, podcasts, you know, I'm aware of, like, what people are saying and noises. You know, there's always like, cat interruptions or sirens or something.

Unknown Speaker 2 (22:59)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (22:59)

But I don't forget that I'm recording. But let me tell you, I was looking at the first recording that we did.

Unknown Speaker 2 (23:07)

Okay. Yes.

Liberty Hardy (23:08)

Which was May 12, 2015. I was. I kept thinking it was in March, but it's in May, right?

Unknown Speaker 2 (23:16)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (23:17)

Yeah. There were some bangers that day.

Unknown Speaker 2 (23:19)

Really?

Liberty Hardy (23:19)

We talked about the luckiest girl alive. Or should say luckiest girl alive. By Jessica Nimona, by N. Stevenson. And what was the other one? That was huge. Oh, everything I never told you by Celeste Sting.

Unknown Speaker 2 (23:32)

Has it been 10 years for that?

Liberty Hardy (23:34)

Can you believe it? Wow. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (23:38)

Koshinsky and I just did our 10 year power ranking the books in 2015 and I don't. Nimona came up. It didn't make my top 10. Everything I never told you, but I didn't realize it was that. So you've been doing it 10 years. So. Okay, that makes sense because you do once a week, 50 times. 10 week off here and there and.

Liberty Hardy (23:54)

Holidays and so yeah, I think I've missed four episodes.

Unknown Speaker 2 (23:58)

That's an amazing, that's an amazing record. Especially with all the health stuff that you've been juggling and, or fight, fending off or tamping down or whatever medieval combat that's taken to has your own reading. I mean are you, are you the still the same similar reader as you were 10 years ago? Do you find yourself reading for different stuff or what's different now than you used to do?

Liberty Hardy (24:17)

Yeah, so I, I think it was around that time I started reading multiple books at a time.

Unknown Speaker 2 (24:23)

Okay.

Liberty Hardy (24:24)

Like I was always just one book beginning to end and I, like still almost 50, cannot stop reading a book I don't like. I have yet to give that up.

Unknown Speaker 2 (24:33)

Me too. I know.

Liberty Hardy (24:35)

I want to know what happens. I want to get like, I want to hear, be able to talk about it, you know.

Unknown Speaker 2 (24:39)

Well, that's what it is for me. I can't stop a book and say I didn't like it.

Liberty Hardy (24:44)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (24:44)

I just won't talk about it. But I can't honestly stop in the middle and say I didn't like the book because I don't know, I mean some. There's been plenty of times where the back half maybe hasn't made it to one of my all time favorites, but it's certainly salvaged into something interesting that I might recommend to the right person at the right time.

Liberty Hardy (24:59)

Yeah, so that changed. I mean, so I started reading for the show. So I started reading more, more widely. You know, like I, I read a bit before that, but I really like, I'll read anything now if I hear it's good or if I think it's going to be important. Like I'll read anything. Whereas before I would be like I really want to read like the weird, dark, upsetting stuff that was like all of my 20s. I just read like the weird, dark, upsetting stuff, you know.

Unknown Speaker 2 (25:24)

Right.

Liberty Hardy (25:25)

And so I'll read anything and you know, I'LL I'll be reading, like, a book for work and then a book that I really want to read and another book that I really want to read. And, like, sometimes I'll take that book that I really want to read that, like, has been out for years or maybe isn't coming out for many months, and I'll set it aside and I won't pick it up again for, like, three or four months. But I always pick it up, you know, and. And still I should knock on wood. Like, I don't have a problem, like, figuring out, like, where I was in that book. I'm still pretty good at being like, okay, this is what's going on.

Unknown Speaker 2 (25:52)

So you know what the characters are doing and what's been going on and what the next bits are. Okay.

Liberty Hardy (25:57)

Yeah. It's funny because I was looking over the list of books from the first episode and the ones that I told you about. Like, I can remember, like, almost the entire plot of those.

Unknown Speaker 2 (26:05)

That.

Liberty Hardy (26:06)

And the other ones, I'm like, I don't remember hardly anything about this book.

Unknown Speaker 2 (26:12)

Everything I never told you. I think there might be some water in it.

Liberty Hardy (26:15)

There is. It's a very important part of it.

Unknown Speaker 2 (26:17)

That'S, you know, that's a. That's a part of it. I think I'm out. I think I'm out on. I'd have to brush up, probably if I read a synopsis that might trigger some of the neurons to fire. Some of the amyloid plaques dislodge for a minute so I could remember it. But, yeah, that's. That's pretty difficult, too. So, like, I know you are an Edelweiss ninja, right? Like, that's how you're finding and figuring stuff out. Like, talk me. People don't know that. Don't do this either as a hobby or as a profession or for pay. The centrality of Edelweiss for what you and I do and try to figure out what's coming out in plan. So, like, walk me through how you get up. You open up Edelweiss, and what are you doing?

Liberty Hardy (26:53)

I'm looking at the review copies that have been put up.

Unknown Speaker 2 (26:57)

That's right. That's where you start. Digital downloads. Okay.

Liberty Hardy (27:00)

Yeah. So Edelweiss is. It's for, like, booksellers and reviewers and, you know, librarians. It's a catalog. You can order books from it. You know, place orders to talk to your reps if you're like a bookstore, but they also put up review copies that you can download. You know, I have a PDF reader on my computer and you can download them. Not all of them, not always. And sometimes like you have to request them. And that's another thing that has changed is that like, you know, the people in publishing, because I don't get out anymore. They're all new, they don't know who I am.

Unknown Speaker 2 (27:32)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (27:33)

You know, I used to like get everything and now I'm like, can I have this? Or like. No, we're only giving this to the special reviewers on Instagram who have, you know, 500, 000. It's like, what?

Unknown Speaker 2 (27:41)

No, that. That is a lot different.

Liberty Hardy (27:42)

That's annoying.

Unknown Speaker 2 (27:43)

That is.

Liberty Hardy (27:43)

But yeah, so I check it. Oh my goodness. I probably between that and then there's netgalley, which is for all readers. I believe all readers can use NetGalley, just not, not just publishing professionals. They put up, you know, galleys there. I refresh it two or three times an hour, probably.

Unknown Speaker 2 (28:01)

Wow.

Liberty Hardy (28:03)

Well, because I want to know what's going on and like, sometimes I will just drop everything. Last year I was doing something. I don't think it was work related doing something. I think I was supposed to go somewhere and the new Robin Sloan just like, refreshed. Boom. New Robin Sloan. And I was like, okay, sorry, gotta read this. I found. Read it right there. It was amazing. One of my favorite books of last year, Moonbound. Amazing. You know, like, I just, I like to know.

Unknown Speaker 2 (28:27)

So how many authors? So this is a. This would be a good question for you. And so I'm going to ask it. And again, I know you'll sweat and think about it after off the air. How many authors are there? How many Robin Sloan tier authors? Like, your plans are done for the day. Are we talking about 50? Are we talking 6, 100? Like, what are we talking here at this point?

Liberty Hardy (28:46)

You know, there are a lot. There are a lot because. A lot. I found that a lot of the books that I've read in the last several years that I have loved so much are by authors that don't have many things out. You know, I used to be like, I like John Irving. I like. You know, I can't even say I read all this.

Unknown Speaker 2 (29:06)

There's eight books out. Yeah, right.

Liberty Hardy (29:08)

I read all the. Sue Grafton, you know, when they come out like now, it's. It's like, you know, I got the new Annie Hartnett and read it immediately because, you know, she has two books out in her book. Unlikely Animals was my favorite book two years ago and I read that book.

Unknown Speaker 2 (29:19)

I really liked it.

Liberty Hardy (29:20)

Oh, it's so fun. But I mean, there, you know, it's got to the point where I can't just drop everything. I think the last time I dropped everything was I got the new Susan Barker, which is Old Soul, which came out in January. It was amazing. I got that right after the Robin Sloan, I think. And I dropped everything and read that. But. And sometimes I get so nervous to read a book that I can't read it.

Unknown Speaker 2 (29:44)

Because you're worried it's gonna suck. Why are you nervous to read it?

Liberty Hardy (29:46)

Because it's like a special treat, you know, and just like, I'm saving this for later. I've always been that way, so I don't know. But it's. I mean, it's really fun. I like to know what's going on in the book world all the time. You know, I'm subscribed to Publishers Lunch, which gives the deals every day.

Unknown Speaker 2 (30:03)

Right.

Liberty Hardy (30:03)

And you would be surprised. I think people are still surprised when they learn that, like, very often the rights to a book sells, like the film rights or the television rights, you know, filming rights. And then they don't get made because somebody goes, that sounds interesting. We're going to snatch that up.

Unknown Speaker 2 (30:19)

That's right.

Liberty Hardy (30:19)

In case we want it for later. But, like, they often expire after like a year, you know, so people will hear that, like, the rights have been sold to something and then it doesn't get made. And they're always disappointed. But it's like it very rarely happens. But also, having looked at Publishers Lunch for many, many years now, you'd be surprised how often a deal is announced and then that book isn't done. Like when they say it's going to be done or it's never done or the title has changed or whatever, I say, as someone who had a deal announced and then didn't deliver my book, so, you know, it's. It's very different, but it's exciting.

Unknown Speaker 2 (30:52)

I've always wanted the percentage on that because, like, you can. And then there's the thing that's rare, that someone claws back the advance. Right. Like, sometimes it's very hope. What was the one?

Liberty Hardy (31:00)

Yeah. Advances aren't as prevalent anymore, though. I mean, it used to be like John Updike, they'd give him a million dollars and he'd give them a book and like, whatever. And now it's like, very rarely, I think, especially like with new authors or small, small publishers. Like, you give the book and then they'll pay.

Unknown Speaker 2 (31:17)

Right, right.

Liberty Hardy (31:18)

Like they've just signed on with you that you've guaranteed to give it to them, and if you break that contract, then you're in trouble. But I don't think they. I don't know. I mean, I could be wrong.

Unknown Speaker 2 (31:26)

But I mean, I think advances, especially for, like, probably the kinds of books you and I would read. If you would. If we were just up to us. Right. And we weren't doing stuff for a living and trying to make shows or whatever. I think the advances in the terms for that have gotten less favorable, shall we say, towards the author. But then there's some of the big stuff that I don't know. Like, I guess if you've got a mediocre romantasy in your back pocket right now, I think you can kind of dictate your terms if you're taking that to market, for example, or something. Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (31:56)

I mean, there was like the year of like, flops with big advances.

Unknown Speaker 2 (32:00)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (32:01)

It was like her fearful symmetry.

Unknown Speaker 2 (32:04)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (32:05)

The Charles Fraser.

Unknown Speaker 2 (32:06)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (32:07)

I mean, which are great books, but, like. And they didn't sell like, their previous books, you know, and it kind of like went away after that. It felt like. I don't think there are a lot of.

Unknown Speaker 2 (32:15)

I haven't heard of a giant flop recently. Like a giant. Like a real.

Liberty Hardy (32:18)

But I mean, getting like. They were getting like millions of dollars and then.

Unknown Speaker 2 (32:22)

No, that's true. Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (32:23)

It wasn't happening and it really, I mean, anymore.

Unknown Speaker 2 (32:26)

I'm not even sure who would get that. That isn't doing romantasy, honestly. Or is it? You know, it is sad.

Liberty Hardy (32:33)

I want all the authors to get all the money. You know, I think. What is it? 98% of all authors, published authors have a day job.

Unknown Speaker 2 (32:42)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (32:43)

You know, or a night job and. Right. During the day. You know, I mean, it's not their only job because they're not getting paid, like. But, you know, and with the Internet and pirating and all that stuff, you know, it's just.

Unknown Speaker 2 (32:53)

Yeah, it's. It's Right. I mean, that goes. It goes into the basket of the things that people don't know about publishing that would raise their eyebrows.

Liberty Hardy (33:00)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (33:00)

Is how. How many books there actually are. Right. Because like, most civilians, they go into independent bookstore, Barnes and Noble even, like, wow, there's a lot of books. Like, that's just the tip of the iceberg, honey. Like, that's just. That's just what they can carry and that's what they're on that given day. I got to go back to for you. Speaking of so many books. You're just looking at everything. Or do you have like certain publishers tagged. Like, I don't look at that screen or whatever that fold view is for new release galleys. So it's just whatever's that day. So it could be literally from Osprey Publishing and it's.

Liberty Hardy (33:28)

Yeah, helicopter.

Unknown Speaker 2 (33:30)

Military helicopter. From the Soviet or whatever.

Liberty Hardy (33:33)

Yeah. So I look at the. What they put up as a galley, which is usually like the big books, books they want, you know. You know, there are. It's a very small percentage of books being published, you know, that are. Go up as galleys. And then I also do some work with the catalog, the. The new release index and you know, with my newsletter where I look at specific days in publishing because it's almost always Tuesday.

Unknown Speaker 2 (33:57)

Right.

Liberty Hardy (33:58)

And that's when I'll bring it up by date and I'll look at every single book that they have available coming up that day, which is like five times as many as.

Unknown Speaker 2 (34:06)

Yes.

Liberty Hardy (34:06)

You know, and see that.

Unknown Speaker 2 (34:07)

Okay. Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (34:09)

I just, you know, every once in a while I'm like, whoa, I didn't know this person had a new book coming out. You know, it's. It's very exciting. Or else find something like, really weird that I want. That I want for myself. I'm like, I'm not going to talk about this on the podcast, but I don't think so. Like, the other day I got a book called Tattoos and Crime and Detective Narratives, Marking and Unmarking. Right. Like by Kate Watson. Like who. Like, that's not really. That's about me. That's not really somebody, you know, or maybe. I mean, there's always somebody else out there who's gonna want to read that book.

Unknown Speaker 2 (34:44)

But yeah, that's so interesting because this is a preview of attractions that come on this show. But I got a pitch from Pantheon about. Because I guess someone over there listens to the BR Pod. They know that I like a micro. Like a micro. Micro history. Like, you know, paper by Kurlansky. That. That's too much commercial appear lib. That's, you know, that's too. That's the Backstreet Boys. And so they're pitching one about phosphorus called White Light. And it sounds pretty cool. And I'm like, I don't really have a place for that, but I'm going to make it into being about micro histories and have his editor on or whatever. But like, there has to be other people other. They mean otherwise they wouldn't publish the book. But that must be so hard to. I mean, that's one of the questions I'm Going to ask like, what do you do with a book like about phosphorus or tattoos? Like, is that for libraries? Like, I still don't get this. And you and I've been in this business for 10 years and we know all the sausages made, but I'm like, who is that sausage for? I don't get it. Some of that stuff.

Liberty Hardy (35:45)

Well, like that there was a book that I really like for my Christmas for myself, I bought a book about the plague. It was 1200 pages.

Unknown Speaker 2 (35:52)

Okay.

Liberty Hardy (35:53)

And it was like a hundred dollars because it's a university press. And the same, same with this. I mean you don't sell as many copies but you charge a lot more money for it. And then I guess maybe it evens out, you know.

Unknown Speaker 2 (36:06)

I guess so.

Liberty Hardy (36:07)

And you have those. But like that's the thing is like how do the people that want to read this book about, you know, tattoos or phosphorus, like how do they hear about it?

Unknown Speaker 2 (36:17)

I have no idea. I have, you know, I would probably.

Liberty Hardy (36:20)

Talk about it on the show. Like if I read it and I really loved it, I would probably talk about it on the show because I'm all about the enthusiasm, right. You know, and people would be like, what? But I pick up books that I'm like, I have no interest in that whatsoever. But everyone says it's really good so I'm going to read it, you know.

Unknown Speaker 2 (36:35)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (36:35)

When.

Unknown Speaker 2 (36:35)

What's your hit rate on that? Do you, do you find that to be like that your experiences are fairly enjoyable even when you do that? Or is it 50? 50 or what?

Liberty Hardy (36:42)

Like usually. Yeah, I mean it's. You learn all kinds of things. That's why I always tell people, like go to author events. Even if you haven't read the book, like go to author events. Because one, you know, you might be like, wow, this sounds amazing and I want to read it. Or it might be a non fiction book and you'll learn all kinds of things because they're going to talk about what's in the book, right. Or you might meet somebody really cool there and like talk to like it's just go out and learn things.

Unknown Speaker 2 (37:05)

I think a non, non fiction book events to me, I don't know if I've said this to you. I'm not a huge goer and lover frankly of fiction author events mostly because like I find the book more interesting than the author talking about it. But if I've read the book and I'm whatever. But non fiction author events, I completely agree with you. If it's a topic that's even vaguely interesting. Go. It's like I used to tell my freshman I was teaching. Like if you've heard a bunch of people say this course is amazing because of the professor, just go take it. Just go take the course. Because the professor so many times makes the course even elective and things that people people have to do. But like, yeah, if the topic sounds vaguely interesting at all and it's a cheap date, you know, even if you only take yourself, it's a good time. That's a really good idea.

Unknown Speaker 3 (37:51)

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Unknown Speaker 2 (39:57)

I've got a couple of specific questions for you that I wanted to ask about because I. I mentioned the. Well, you mentioned unlikely animals that I read because of you, but one that I know I read because of you. And I mention on the BR pod every now and again and I always get someone emailing me say, I didn't know anyone else ever read that, but I thought about this book. And so this is one. But I was going to ask you if there's other books that, like, over the last 10 years that you've brought up multiple times or people ask about, but Library at Mount Char is one of those reading experiences. I never anything like it. I'm really not sure who to recommend it to. It did things to my mind and body while I was reading it that I didn't know were possible. Do you remember? I mean, do you still feel that same way about that book? Or am I just alone out here?

Liberty Hardy (40:41)

Jeff, I'm not even making this up when I tell you that yesterday I got my copy out because I was like, really?

Unknown Speaker 2 (40:48)

You didn't know? You. Come on, smoke.

Liberty Hardy (40:52)

Because it's like, you know, we all have those books that we just love so much. Like I was saying to you when people wrote in about a book that they had heard about on the show that, you know, they just imprinted on, it was Gideon the Ninth, like, by a large majority.

Unknown Speaker 2 (41:06)

Oh, that's one. That's one of your things. Like, you were big into that. Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (41:09)

Oh, yeah. I love those books. And you know, Library Montar. You know, it's. There's nothing like it, you know, which is probably. Or I. I'm speaking for him. Maybe that's why he hasn't, you know, he was working on something for a really long time, but it hasn't come out. So I mean, it must be hard when you have a book like that because people are rabid about that book. There's something about it, you know, and it's violent and, you know, it's.

Unknown Speaker 2 (41:33)

It's weird and like, deeply upsetting and possibly criminal in many, like, thought crimes are committed in that to you while you're in that book.

Liberty Hardy (41:41)

Just. It's just incredible. It is incredible, though. And it's. It's one of those books that I put in the list. Like with the Secret History.

Unknown Speaker 2 (41:48)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (41:48)

You know, people either love it or they hate it. And if they love it, you know, you know that publishing compares every book that takes place at a college where someone dies to the Secret History and they're never the same. Like, it's never the same.

Unknown Speaker 2 (42:00)

No.

Liberty Hardy (42:00)

So I've read a few books that said this is like the library at Matt Chart, and it's just not.

Unknown Speaker 2 (42:05)

Yeah, that's almost a counter indicator to me if someone compares it, like, oh, you don't know what you're talking about because it can't possibly be the case if you're trying to comp that book.

Liberty Hardy (42:14)

Yeah. And like, I get. I mean, they, you know, they're trying to reel people in and they do. It works for me. I mean, I read all the books that say it's like the Secret History, and I'm like, no, it's really not the last. The last book I read, the only book I read that was even close was the Orchard, which was amazing.

Unknown Speaker 2 (42:29)

I know I didn't get to that one. I know. I almost picked it up like three times. I didn't get to. It was like three years ago now. I remember in Powell. It was in my hand and I got something else. I remember thinking, you know, what if I didn't pick it up right then I'm never gonna pick it up, and Liberty's gonna be so mad that I never actually gave it a try.

Liberty Hardy (42:45)

No, it's all right. I mean, there are so many books, but, yeah, Library at Mount Char. I could never. You know, I feel like I talk about Murderbot a lot, which everyone will be talking about soon.

Unknown Speaker 2 (42:56)

Yeah. Are you. Are you a fan of adaptations? I don't think I know about this. Do you get excited for them? You don't care. You hate Where Are you?

Liberty Hardy (43:03)

Yeah, no, I like to watch them so that I can go. That's not what happens in the book. That's not what happens in the book. That's not what happens. But not usually. Just because I. I don't watch a lot of television, you know, because I read, you know, I do put on like whole, like seasons of shows in a day. Like when I'm doing like, stuff, like inputting stuff into the computer or the calendar or whatever. I'll leave it on in the background and stuff I haven't watched. But, like, it's not important, like Criminal Minds or House or whatever, you know, But I don't sit down and just like, watch an actual brand new TV show very often at all.

Unknown Speaker 2 (43:35)

Yeah, I do it very infrequently. And most of my tv, you know, screen media consumption needs to be four quadrants for all four people in my house because I go to bed at 9:30 and so do my kids. The days of me having two hours after they went to bed to watch a movie are gone. They're gone. So anyway, that's a. That's a different story. But they also can watch different stuff. It's not all Miyazaki, which I love, but there's only so much Miyazaki I can take as a grown man in a row at one point. So you got to. So the. You mentioned the calendar. So in Edelweiss, one thing you're doing is you're probably filling out your. What am I going to talk about on week X in three weeks? Like, how far ahead are you plugging stuff in as you go through stuff?

Liberty Hardy (44:15)

Well, so I have my own spreadsheet which is, I don't know, 300 something pages long. I just add, you know, like this book. I saw this book. It's coming out on this day in this book. And then I go back, you know, in a couple months, and I go, okay, I want to read these books for the show. And then, you know, the next month I start plugging it into the calendar for the new release index. So I get to look at these things, like over and over. And it's really helpful. Really helpful. I've always wanted to alphabetize it, but I'm so lazy. I'm not so lazy, but like, I'm just going so fast. I'm like, all right, drop this in under the state. And I go, oh, this would be so much easier if I alphabetize it. Then I could see if I already had it.

Unknown Speaker 2 (44:53)

Was it just a giant word doc? It's not a spreadsheet.

Liberty Hardy (44:55)

Giant word doc? Yeah. Oh, on and on and on and on. But like, but it's sort of by date, you know?

Unknown Speaker 2 (45:01)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (45:01)

I mean, I have. It's what, February? I put three books on it that I got out of Edelweiss this last week that come out in 2026. They were already there.

Unknown Speaker 2 (45:13)

God.

Liberty Hardy (45:14)

So.

Unknown Speaker 2 (45:15)

So those are winter. Winter 2026 titles.

Liberty Hardy (45:17)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (45:18)

Well, who has that up? What publishers have that up that early?

Liberty Hardy (45:21)

Let's say I could open the document. I don't even know. I can't now remember if I got the actual PDF or if they just.

Unknown Speaker 2 (45:27)

Because a lot of, A lot of the big five's fall stuff just.

Liberty Hardy (45:30)

Yeah, no, this was. Let's see, there was one from March, the Unbeatable Sonia Ballantyne by Sonya Valentine. I got. There's one from January, should have been you by Andrea Mara. Oh, I take it back. One was December 16th.

Unknown Speaker 2 (45:47)

Okay.

Liberty Hardy (45:47)

Birds of a Feather by Kate Stewart. So Yeah. I don't know.

Unknown Speaker 2 (45:51)

So how close? Like, okay. I mean, even someone like you, there's still books you want to read that you can't get to. How many Liberty. How many Liberty clones would you need? Need, do you think? To sort of. You know what, ladies? We did it. We kind of got to all the books we wanted to get to this year. Do you need four libs? 10, 23. I mean, what are we looking at here?

Liberty Hardy (46:10)

At least 50.

Unknown Speaker 2 (46:12)

At least, because. Are you going in back list? How much, like, are you reading stuff ever from, like, 2003 for whatever reason?

Liberty Hardy (46:17)

Oh, yeah, I read backlist. I read everything. You know, I get books all the time. Yesterday, I'm gonna totally botch this. You're gonna know how to say it. I don't know how to say her.

Unknown Speaker 2 (46:25)

I probably.

Liberty Hardy (46:26)

I was reading a graphic novel about Juna Barnes.

Unknown Speaker 2 (46:30)

Is that how you say, oh, Juna? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Liberty Hardy (46:33)

Barnes. I was reading a graphic novel, and in it, they talked about a German artist, like, performance artist of her time, who sounded completely banana pants. And it turned out that an author had written a book about her called Holy Skirt, which came out in 2003 and was nominated for the National Book Award. I'd never heard of it, so I put that on my list to pick up because I was like, okay, you know, so it's literally like 2003. It was the date you just gave. Yeah. Or. But, you know, and I hope to read it someday. But, I mean, you. I have, I think that last count, 6,000 books in my house.

Unknown Speaker 2 (47:10)

And I was gonna say, how does. Is print making your. How does. Are you buying stuff? Do you still get some galleys or, like, how is print making its way into your house these days?

Liberty Hardy (47:18)

I mostly just buy them. Like, the Gap. Like, I. When I first started doing, you know, this and working for Book Riot, I mean, I used to get 30, 40, 50 books in the mail, and now I get five or six a week every week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because everything. And that's great because, you know, less paper and it costs them, like, what, $12 every time they send one. You know, it's like, I'm happy to read, but I know a lot of reviewers aren't, and a lot of people don't like to read on their computers or their devices, you know, but I don't mind it.

Unknown Speaker 2 (47:46)

Well, the difference now. And the BR doesn't do a lot of this, though we probably should, is, like, the social media promotion of what you do to have a physical copy is so much nicer to take a video or do a screenshot. But, like, it's tough because they want to cut down the value of them of sending it out and just the labor, like, there's. They're not as staffed up as they were on a per title basis. They were even 10 or 15 years ago.

Liberty Hardy (48:09)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (48:09)

I find if I ask for a print galley, I can get the most of the time. But I do have to ask.

Liberty Hardy (48:14)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (48:15)

Which is.

Liberty Hardy (48:15)

That's good, though. Like, you know, I would say four of the five books I get every week are things that I didn't ask for. You know, they just delivered it, you know, so. But I mean, there's a lot. And so let me. I'm gonna, like, bring us, like, way down.

Unknown Speaker 2 (48:29)

Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (48:30)

Like, depress the hell out of us right now. Okay. Because maybe you have some thoughts about this and maybe, like, I don't know, you're gonna want to cut this out. You don't want to talk about it.

Unknown Speaker 2 (48:36)

No, it's okay.

Liberty Hardy (48:38)

So, you know, and I don't want to go on and on about this, but I've been very, very sick. And it's been taking a long time to find out what was wrong with me, which can bum you out, you know. And I started thinking, because it's been very hard for me to read, you know, I can't concentrate with what's going on.

Unknown Speaker 2 (48:52)

And, you know, how many pages do I have left in me? Is that where.

Liberty Hardy (48:56)

So I started thinking, like, you know, what should I really be reading now? Like, what if something is, like, really wrong with me? And when that we're done all these tests, I'm going to find out, like, it's really bad. Like, how do you decide, like, what you're going to read, you know, next? And then I started thinking, like, well, you know, it was. It was dark. But then I really, like, I started working backwards. I'm like, well, how do I know that when I step outside tomorrow this giant icicle isn't gonna. Like, so, like, how. You know. And then I got over it. But, like, for a while there, I was like, how do you decide, like, what books you're gonna fit in at the. At the end of your time, if that's what's coming. You know, it was. It was a dark. A dark.

Unknown Speaker 2 (49:34)

You know, I don't really have that. Like, I certainly have had over my life bouts of, like, really being. You know, my mortality is like. Feels very heavy. I don't know. It hasn't happened recently. And it doesn't really. I think when I was in grad school and, you know, spending a lot of time in the library and being around millions and millions of volumes. I think I got a little exposure therapy about I can't read everything.

Liberty Hardy (49:57)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (49:58)

Like, I think it was so obvious. It's like almost like if you were a mortician. Like, yeah, I'm gonna die someday. Right. Like, I just, I, I think the thing, it's so. It's not that, you know, the pages on my mortal coil that I'm going to have time to read. The thing that I can't figure out and I'm still struggling with. I've been struggling with from since we started this damn thing 12 or 13 years ago. Whatever is like how there's so many. How do you cover books? Right. Yeah, because there's so many. Into a first approximation, any book that you talk about on all the books, or Rebecca and I might mention in our front list reading or whatever. Like we did a poll of like the 10 books we talked about the most over, I think for our 10 year anniversary of doing the show and asked readers which of these have you, like, how many of you have read these? And so Gilead by Marin Robinson. We've talked about, you know, all the time. It's on recommendations. We just talk about all the time. And not even half of the listeners had read Gilead. Right. So even for something like Gilead, it's like, okay, we can't really talk about it because Rebecca and I like to do a deep dive on a book every now and again. We put it behind the Patreon for just the real heart. Hardcore heads. But like I've all, like, my dream content to make would be to talk about a book in something like depth. It's like not like 12 hours or whatever, but even like 30 minutes.

Liberty Hardy (51:14)

Yeah, but like living, you could.

Unknown Speaker 2 (51:17)

Yeah, but no one's gonna listen to it.

Liberty Hardy (51:20)

He'd be surprised.

Unknown Speaker 2 (51:21)

Would I?

Liberty Hardy (51:22)

Somebody out there.

Unknown Speaker 2 (51:23)

I've made things and I've been surprised by how few people listen to it, I think. And I, I don't know because like for movies, people care about them to listen. They'll even read about stuff. And I'll do this to movies or TV shows that are big and like in the air because they kind of want to know what's going on. There's like what, maybe two books a year that qualify for that.

Liberty Hardy (51:44)

Yeah, well, you were saying, like it's, it's so hard. Like you want to talk about the third book in a series, but if people haven't read the, you know, whatever. The, like, how do you. How do you get those out? And, like, how do you. I don't know. Yeah, to me. But, like, to me. So, you know, going back to, you know, like, I'm not stressed out. And when I was, like, really worried I wasn't stressed out about, like, how I'm never going to read everything I want, it was just like, how do I choose?

Unknown Speaker 2 (52:10)

Oh, how do you choose? Okay, I'm all right with the constraint, but how do I choose within the constraint?

Liberty Hardy (52:15)

I love that, like, there are so many books and, you know, there's some great quotes somewhere about, like, how, like, having a TBR that. That you'll never get to, like, keeps you alive or something. But, you know, it's not. It's not that. It's just like, how do you, like, choose those last books? Like, you know, I'm not going to read the third book in a series probably if, like, I'm like, I don't have any time with, you know, but. And now I've got it. And that's completely off track again.

Unknown Speaker 2 (52:38)

No. Were we ever on track? The whole point of this was to be on track with you for 45. Yeah.

Liberty Hardy (52:43)

Can I tell you, like, but that reminds me of something. Can I tell you that?

Unknown Speaker 2 (52:46)

Of course.

Liberty Hardy (52:47)

So we've been doing tbr, you know, the book recommendation service, for many years now. And several years ago, I think was when I was still doing orders, I came across this survey we have, you know, people fill out surveys like, I like this, and I want to read more of this and whatever. And we asked, like, are there any books that you've hated? And this One person wrote 8 million ways to Die by Lawrence Block. And when I looked it up, it was the fifth book in the Matthew Scudder series. And I was like, that book must have really hurt you. You know, people usually write. People write something, you know, like a classic. You know, it's like Wuthering Heights or, you know, To Kill a Mockingbird or Catch her in the Rye or whatever. People don't like the classics. But, like, I was like, that is a book that really upset that person, you know, And I think about that all the time. Like, is the first book really good? And, like, we would. We would have, like, pushed the series. And then, like, I don't know. But.

Unknown Speaker 2 (53:38)

Well, it's kind of like, you know, people got so bent out of shape about the last season of Game of Thrones, and part of the reason they got a bit out of shape because they care about it. And they went through six seasons or whatever. Right. So yeah, that makes sense that that person was invested in that series that was one of their dudes or series or whatever. And they. It was terrible or pulled off something cheap or was half baked. Yeah, that's an interesting. That's an.

Liberty Hardy (54:00)

I wonder if they like kept going. They're like, that was a bad one. I'm gonna move on to the next one.

Unknown Speaker 2 (54:04)

You know, a really good question for people that like to read is what's an obscure book that you really hated? Because I mean, you don't do this. This is not the liberty stuff and trade, but like it. You know, you go onto the Goodreads page or whatever for whatever book you want to look at. You know, whatever the highest Q rating you can think of in the world. And there's some one stars. Like I just didn't get it right. That's just how world and everything works. But I really like the idea of some book that is super obscure and that you hated it.

Liberty Hardy (54:32)

Okay, so I have a book, a book that I read that for whatever reason I was in my 20s and I still think of it as like the worst book I've ever read.

Unknown Speaker 2 (54:42)

Okay. Are you gonna name it here? We're gonna do this.

Liberty Hardy (54:44)

I don't like to like.

Unknown Speaker 2 (54:45)

I know. You don't have to. You don't have to.

Liberty Hardy (54:47)

I'll drop you some hints. Okay. It was fiction written by an author.

Unknown Speaker 2 (54:52)

Wow, thanks Lib. That really narrows it down. Get out my deductive. My, my deerstalker hat and get on that one. Do you know what it is yet?

Liberty Hardy (54:59)

It was fiction written by an author that had written a very famous non fiction book.

Unknown Speaker 2 (55:04)

Okay.

Liberty Hardy (55:05)

And she was married to a famous director at one time.

Unknown Speaker 2 (55:08)

Okay.

Liberty Hardy (55:09)

And it was like this horrible mystery that involved like terrible things happening to children. And. And I just was like, that just wasn't any good at all. Like, like, I mean the writing was bad. The, the plot didn't make any sense. And I'm sure I've probably read things that were worse since then. But like in my head I'm going, that's the worst book I've read.

Unknown Speaker 2 (55:31)

I've gotten pretty good at like pre filtering A. I don't read as much as you do, so there's fewer things in the filter. But like the truth is I like most things that I read. Most things that I pick up on my own accord. I like them, you know?

Liberty Hardy (55:43)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2 (55:44)

If we do wear the crawdad sing or something for the show just to cover it, that's out. I'm not filtering that for Jeff Pleasure. That's a different sort of thing. So the hit rate on there is lower, but, like, there's enough books and I've done this long enough that I can kind of tell usually it's going to be my kind of book. Are you that way? I think maybe you read more. You take more chances than I do, I think so you may have some more variance at those edge cases.

Liberty Hardy (56:08)

I do. I mean, yeah, I think. I don't know. I think I enjoy probably 70% of what I read.

Unknown Speaker 2 (56:16)

It's lower than maybe I would have thought. I don't know. I don't have a percentage.

Liberty Hardy (56:22)

And that's why. That's why people are like, why don't you ever talk about. About books you don't like? I'm like, because I want you to read books that I'm excited about. Because, like, I'm not saying this to brag, but most people don't read as much as I do.

Unknown Speaker 2 (56:33)

No, they don't.

Liberty Hardy (56:33)

They don't have as much time to read as. As much as I do. If I read a book and I'm like, that stunk. I can just put it aside. It was three hours of my life. Whatever we learned from that experience, maybe I won't read that author again. You know, like, that's fine. You know, so to me, it's not that big a deal.

Unknown Speaker 2 (56:48)

Right?

Liberty Hardy (56:49)

But. And I could say, like, I read this and this is why, you know, like, when I'm talking to other people, like, I didn't. I didn't enjoy that for whatever reason, but that's. You know, I just want to tell people about books that I'm excited about because I want, you know, and they might not like them.

Unknown Speaker 2 (57:02)

Right.

Liberty Hardy (57:04)

Like, people hate the Secret History, you know, like, they hate it.

Unknown Speaker 2 (57:08)

I kind of don't get that. But again, that's me.

Liberty Hardy (57:11)

I can see it. And especially like younger readers now. Yeah, I. I can see it. You know, it had. It's got flaws. You know, it's.

Unknown Speaker 2 (57:19)

Well, flaws. I mean, not liking it is one thing. I guess It's. There's very few. Well, that's not. And there's other. There are books that people love that I hate as strong. I. That's not really my personality, but I. I thought were not successful on multiple levels, I guess is my very cold way of saying that it's a bad book, at least in my opinion. I can see the. The hatred for secret, like, hatred for a lot of books. I'm like, this Is it almost. It can feel like performance of some kind. Like, I don't doubt that you didn't like it, but. Wow, you really seem to care about saying you hated that book as much as.

Liberty Hardy (57:49)

Yeah, but we also, like, throw that word around.

Unknown Speaker 2 (57:52)

Yeah, yeah, we do.

Liberty Hardy (57:53)

Whatever. The same with, like, love and, like.

Unknown Speaker 2 (57:54)

Like, those.

Liberty Hardy (57:55)

Those words don't really mean anything all the time. I mean, I realized recently, like, when I was talking on the show, I said, you know, this is by one of my favorite authors, or, you know, this was one of my favorite books. And I'm like. I say that, you know, two or three times a month. You know, so, like, how many favorite books do I have now? Hundreds.

Unknown Speaker 2 (58:14)

Yeah. Someone's gonna show up at your house someday, and it's gonna. There's gonna be, like, you know, C4 with a timer on it and says, okay, you have to list your 50 favorite authors in the next 12 minutes or this thing goes off. And now you think you're sweating now, Lib. Then you're gonna be sweating.

Liberty Hardy (58:27)

It's so funny, because that's, like, in one of the things that I wrote for Book Riot one time, I talked about why I finish every book that I read, and I was like, I don't know. I just have to, like, what if I'm at a bank and someone comes in and takes everybody hostage and says, tell me the ending of, you know, the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo right now, or I'm gonna blow this place up?

Unknown Speaker 2 (58:46)

That's my problem. I've read the book, and I'll still get it. I'm gonna get us all killed, Lib, because I can't remember anything anymore. We're all gonna die. All right, well, I better let you go. Happy 500th. It's a pleasure to talk to you. Yeah, go check out all the books over there. And people can follow you on Instagram and stuff, right? They go check that out.

Liberty Hardy (59:03)

I haven't been posting much lately, but I hope to get back to it soon. It's Franzen Comes Alive.

Unknown Speaker 2 (59:08)

Yeah. Which is a joke that, what, six people get?

Liberty Hardy (59:11)

Well, yes. The younger the person, the less they understand, which is fine because it's, like, a really old reference.

Unknown Speaker 2 (59:19)

My Instagram saddle is still the name of my blog from 15 years ago, so I'm, you know, I'm right there with you, Lib. Take care, everyone. Go listen to all the books. Oh, give us. Okay, sorry. We're going to get you out on that. Except for. Is there something coming out in the next season that's not out yet. That you want to have people's radar. Don't spoil it.

Liberty Hardy (59:36)

Oh, my goodness. Just the new Annie Hartnett, I think is the thing. I'm really excited. What's it called now that you the Road to Tender Hearts.

Unknown Speaker 2 (59:43)

Okay.

Liberty Hardy (59:43)

I love her.

Unknown Speaker 2 (59:44)

You know, when it comes out off.

Liberty Hardy (59:45)

The top of your head, it's in April.

Unknown Speaker 2 (59:47)

Okay.

Liberty Hardy (59:48)

Now that you've asked me, I'm, you know, that's fine.

Unknown Speaker 2 (59:50)

We can look it up. I don't know if you'd have all of Edelweiss at your disposal at all times.

Liberty Hardy (59:54)

Yeah, April 29th it is out.

Unknown Speaker 2 (59:58)

All right, cool. All right, Liv. Take care.

Liberty Hardy (60:00)

Bye.

Unknown Speaker 2 (60:26)

SA.

Kelsey McKinney (61:00)

Stick around now to hear an excerpt from the audiobook of you didn't Hear this from me. Mostly True Notes on Gossip by Kelsey McKinney read by the author.

Unknown Speaker 1 (61:07)

I used to think that gossip was something I could hold in the palm of my hand and swallow whole. Gossip was a pill you were handed before a concert, an easy if clandestine decision to spend your evening a little happier, a little stranger, a little more open to the world than before. It was the fizzing excitement that rose in my body after two espresso martinis in a dark bar. Gossip could make or break a person. And even if that person was me, I loved it the way any good gossiper does, wholeheartedly, with abandon and to my own detriment. I have always been obsessed with stories about my friends friends, those off screen recurring characters who might have broken up with a girlfriend, yelled at their boss, or realized they had a secret half sister. What I crave is a phone call that starts with, you're never going to believe this. Or a 4 minute long voice memo sent with no context. Or the electric current that seems to appear in the air when the person across from you at the table leans in and lowers their voice. Many people say they do not like gossip, but gossip is not as small as I once thought it was. Each day my concept of it expands outward a little more. At its most basic, gossip is just one person talking to another about someone who isn't present. That means, definitionally, that prayer requests are gossip. Speculation in the media about which baseball team Shohei Ohtani is going to sign with is gossip. A doctor conferring with a colleague over an X ray is gossiping about their patient, just like two friends sending each other Taylor Swift's posts on Instagram are gossiping in modern parlance. We also say gossip when we mean slander, libel, or hate speech. We call celebrity news calls from our mom and whisper network's gossip. Even in scientific research, there's no consensus on what gossip means. We say we love to gossip, and in the same breath we say that gossip is dangerous. Some form of gossip is to be found in every society. Children who are supposed to be less influenced by cultures, gossip practically from the time they learn to talk and to recognize other people, the philosophy professor Aaron Binzaev wrote in his essay the Vindication of Gossip. Maybe we're born with that desire and always have been. In his book Grooming, Gossip, and the Evolution of Language, the British anthropologist Robin Dunbar argued that conversation serves the same function as grooming in the animal kingdom. Just as one chimpanzee might pick bugs out of the hair of another to signify closeness and allyship to others in their community, so might a teenage girl lean over to tell her friend a secret or a colleague bring you a piece of important information. If the main function of grooming for monkeys and apes is to build up trust and personal knowledge of allies, then language has an added advantage. It allows you to say a great deal about yourself, your likes and dislikes, the kind of person you are. It also allows you to convey in numerous subtle ways something about your reliability as an ally or a friend, dunbar wrote.