Rebecca Schinsky (3:43)

Great.

Randy Winston (3:43)

But I, I will say, you know, obviously, the, the like, when you. When I think about what I want an adaptation to do, I think about the. One of my mentors from the New School MFA program, Helen Shulman, every, every workshop, she would ask the person who was about to be workshopped to read. So you would read the piece, a very short piece of the story that you had workshop those past two weeks. And at the end it gets really quiet. And Helen says, so what's this story about? And then we go around the room and everyone, like, that's how we start that conversation. What is the story here? What's the story here? And so I, I think with any adaptation, like, it's not, you're not going to catch every detail, but what's the story here? And you know, this is, this is a, this is a very sad story. You know, it takes place in the 1960s in Tallahassee, Florida, with a character named Elwood Curtis. And, you know, he's been unfairly sentenced to a juvenile reform reformatory school and called Nickel Academy. And they treat these kids so bad. And, you know, there's death that are happening, like mysterious deaths that are happening and people being buried in unmarked graves and is. It is devastating. And how do you. Like how, but how do you tell that story? I think Romeo did very well with first person. With the first person camera. A pov. Because, you know, the one thing you think about in a scenario like that is, like, okay, we can tell that story, but to put the camera in an actor's hands, and thus we become the audience, we become that person. It really changes the way you experience that story and that film and how you walk out of there. So bravo to Ramel, obviously, kudos to Colson Whitehead. It's. It's remarkable. Like, it's gonna do big at the Oscars, I hope.

Rebecca Schinsky (5:49)

I want to pick up the thread that you mentioned of how the more literary merit a book has, the harder it is to adapt. And Colson Whitehead just lives in the zone of literary merit. Like, the Underground Railroad was not an easy project to do either. Our hot take here is that the Nickel Boys is actually even better than Underground Railroad. And what I've been hearing about this POV choice to put the camera in the actor's hands and put the audience in the experience that the charact is having is that it makes the viewing experience just as difficult as the reading experience is, which it should be to be true to that story. It sounds like he really pulled that off.

Randy Winston (6:26)

Yeah. Yeah, truly. And, you know, the other thing I think about with the story like that, it is very much a story about friendship. And I think for somebody like myself, if you told me going into reading that book that I'm going to read, like, something that's traumatic, I probably wouldn't have picked it up. But the way that it was told to me was this is a story about friendship. And. And I will read a story about friendship any. Most days. So. Yeah, and I thought that. I thought that was very well done as well. What Curtis and Turner, the two friends in that story, and. And how they, you know, deal with what's happening around them and what's happening between them, I thought was done really.

Jeff O'Neill (7:07)

Well, I guess, as a frame for the rest of the discussion to. Rebecca and I talked about this a lot. Like, those of us who love a book that are getting ready to see an adaptation or hear an adaptation come out. We want two impossible. We want to reconcile two impossible things, right? We want it to be the book, but we also want to add something that we didn't get by just reading the book, because we've already read the book. Those two diametrically opposed things are kind of the always already of someone who cares about the source text coming into it. And in a lot of ways, the Nickel Boys is the least. I don't know, stylistically complicated of Whitehead's works. And so it's sort of ready to have more of an opinionated direction, I guess is one way of putting it. Right. Whereas if you're doing, I don't know, I'll pick something, something that's not been Adapted, like Zone 1 or John Henry Days or the Intuitionist, which I'm still waiting for.

Rebecca Schinsky (7:57)

That's gonna be fun on.

Jeff O'Neill (7:58)

In a lot of ways, the director, I would imagine, would work a lot harder to represent the sort of the literary pyrotechnics or the specific, you know, unusualness that's being brought here. The Whitehead is so careful with the story, and it says it's his one true sort of historical fiction. Well, Sag harbor, but that's more of a. Is that technically a memoir? Was it.

Rebecca Schinsky (8:18)

It's fiction.

Randy Winston (8:19)

It's fiction.

Jeff O'Neill (8:20)

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that in Sag harbor. And also, I guess it makes then Sag harbor is also very light touch in terms of speculative fiction elements and something like that. So it sounds like that needle has been threaded here of like, okay, the source text. And then we're going to do something that only movies can do or that movies can do especially well. And that is. That is really key. And I guess going alongside that, Randy, we're going to talk about a couple things that I've talked about the show. Rebecca's talked about the show already in the form of Slow Horses S4. It's kind of the apple stock, it seems to me, of adaptations right now. You just rely if it's going to go up and to the right and you just. You don't. You don't trade apple. You. You own apple. You don't trade Slow horses. You watch Slow Horses. Tell me about.

Rebecca Schinsky (9:03)

Randy doesn't know he's auditioning to be the third chair on this podcast with his picks for adaptations. But when he emailed me and said Slow Horses, that's like, come sit next to me.

Randy Winston (9:13)

Oh, my goodness. Slow Horses. Wow. I mean, can I, can I have coffee with Gary Oldman for real?

Jeff O'Neill (9:22)

Or maybe at Arm's Length with Jackson Lamb? You know, maybe on the other side.

Randy Winston (9:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff O'Neill (9:27)

Give him his hygiene. Hygiene pole. Distance there. Yeah.

Randy Winston (9:30)

I mean, what a character. What a. What a character. I, ah, I love Slow Horses. Slow Horses so much. And I actually did not know that was an adaptation until after I started watching the first season. And that, that is a show that we binge watch here at the house or if we're on schedule, we'll just watch it as they come out. But wow. I mean, I'm big In the spy thrillers. I love those stories. And having the guys that didn't make it or, hey, listen, you suck at your job. You're gonna go work on it.

Jeff O'Neill (10:07)

It's an unbelievable idea. It's an unbelievable.

Randy Winston (10:10)

With a legend, by the way, who also is just kind of over the.

Rebecca Schinsky (10:15)

Hill, but not really having the time of his life. Like, you can just tell Gary Oldman is going to play this character as long as they will let him. It's so much fun. And it's also. It's appointment viewing in my house, too. Like, in a season where multiple things are available on streaming, if it's like Friday night and we're like, okay, there's the Slow Horses. There are all these other things. Obviously, Slow Horses is the one we're going to watch.

Randy Winston (10:38)

I'm curious to know from you all, how did you all find Slow Horses? Like, how did you find your way to it? And do you. Do you historically watch spy thrillers?

Rebecca Schinsky (10:48)

That's a great question. I actually do know how I found out about it. I listen. Jeff and I both listen sometimes to the Watch podcast from the Ringer, hosted by Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald. And the year that. They're great. Yeah, they're really wonderful. The year that Slow Horses was gonna debut at the beginning of every year, they do, like, most anticipated shows of the season. And the year that Slow Horses was coming out, one of them was, like, was giving the pitch of, like. So it's the spies that suck at their job, and Gary Oldman is their boss. And it's based on these books. Those guys both read a lot of, like, spy and crime thrillers.

Jeff O'Neill (11:24)

Yeah.

Rebecca Schinsky (11:24)

Hard World crime.

Jeff O'Neill (11:25)

Yeah.

Rebecca Schinsky (11:25)

Yeah. So they had read the McCarron books and were stoked about it. And I was like, this sounds like it's in the pocket of things that my husband and I are both going to like. And I think we knew after the first episode that it was going to work for us. I haven't gone and read any of the other books, and this is actually like, kind of. I like a spy thriller. I'll watch the Bourne Identity anytime. It's on cable or, like, on a flight once a year. But it's not one of my main genres, and I feel like Slow Horses just does it differently.

Jeff O'Neill (11:53)

Yeah, I heard about a few SoHo first, because I'd heard about the book, and then when I saw the name, because that's the name of the first. Right. Book in the series. I think McCarron actually calls it the Slough House series. I think that's what Soho calls it. So, you know, I, I think I've actually talked to some of the marketing people over there. It's a, of course, a wonderful boon to them. But since, since the series, it's hard. It's not like the Harry Potter series where everyone knows it's Harry Potter and it's not Jackson Lamb and the. The Case of the Corrupt Paramilitary Organization or, you know, each is individual episode, but that's how I first heard about it. And again, a shared watch in my house. So, like, you know, I think we're all talking here about some, like, good for all parties in your household. Well, not my kids, but my, my partner and I. This is like our first draft picked. If we have any show that's available new to us to watch. We'll probably pick Slow Horses first. If it's available, I don't think. Also, you can discount, and they've been very smart about this, that there's a teaser for the next season at the end of the season. And, you know, it's coming out and it's regular and they're having a good time and they throw all the money at it. It looks like a billion dollars and it's so consistently good. You know, six to eight episodes. You get a couple episodes, we don't quite know what's going on yet a la the Wire. And then you figure it out and it's just a great time. I mean, I feel like you do this for a million years, and in the first season, they did the thing sort of the Ned Stark, which is you cannot trust that your favorite character necessarily is going to make it. So it keeps you on your toes, which I think is super important for someone like me, who I'm not going to watch 59 seasons of NCIS because the stakes are just too low. I just didn't know what's going to happen. I like to be kept on my toes a little bit. And so Horses is like that, right. Combination of. You feel like you're in safe hands, but you also can't get comfortable, which is a pleasurable kind of place to be.

Randy Winston (13:44)

You know what? I will say this, too. The writing is really good. Yeah. And the acting is really good. And it also, you know, Franklin brought this up when him and I were talking about adaptations last month. You know, it's that thing where a novel is really good as a TV series. It's really hard to squeeze a novel into a film. People do it and we'll talk about that. But yeah, it's just hard to do. Whereas a short story or a short story collection, something like that. You could probably get off a short story in a film, but. And I think that's what helps slow horses work as well.

Jeff O'Neill (14:21)

Yeah, I guess to go there. So the other one that you mentioned here, which I also loved. Say nothing based on the Patrick Radden Keefe book of the same title. I love the book. When I saw this was happening, I was so excited. I don't feel like it's gotten as much uptake more widely. Maybe I'm wrong about this, at least in the very small part of the world that I inhabit. So what do we look for in adaptation? And I think especially when it comes to narrative nonfiction, one thing film, especially a series, can do is have. You can have a relationship with the characters in a sort of a different way than you can. Especially when it comes to narrative nonfiction. There's a certain remove even from a real historical person, especially. But the way Dolores and Marion Price are portrayed in this particular. Like Dolores Price, and I don't have the actress's name in front of me. I'm ashamed to look it up while someone else is talking. One of my great professors when I was undergraduate said, you know, you know a great character when you miss them, when they're not on the screen or on the page. And every time Dolores Price wasn't on the screen, I missed her. And in a way, I think it's been a while since I read the book. I think maybe one thing that's difficult for people is this is more of an antihero and it's terrorism. And I think it's. It's less. It doesn't go down as easy as even something like Slow Horses because it's. I don't know if moral gray area is the right thing, but you're gonna identify with her and then lament what she does. And then if you do the next move of overlay her motivations and actions with other geopolitical things. I don't really get into that right now. It's. It puts you in an uncomfortable position. And I don't know that's the kind of thing. Whereas another Hulu series. I thought Shogun was my favorite show of the year. Coming in to say nothing. I think say Nothing eclipsed it. But I think it was because of this moral grayness where Shogun is so outside of sort of the contemporary realm of morality that it has a fantasy element almost because it feels so distant. Randy, what did you. What. What, draw what was drawn or what was especially Excellent. Or what drew you to say nothing. And how did you experience it?

Randy Winston (16:20)

I. So I love say nothing. I. And I actually did the reverse where I've been doing this lately. It's really weird where I watch first and then read the book.

Rebecca Schinsky (16:29)

No, I want to hear more about that.

Randy Winston (16:31)

Which is. Which is weird. I don't. His. Historically speaking, I don't do that. But I. We binge watch say nothing in two days.

Jeff O'Neill (16:39)

What.

Randy Winston (16:40)

What really drew me to it was this I not idea. Is this reality that there's grief after violence and there's like, when you were the person doing the violence or. I'm sorry, I should take that back. There's grief after violence when you are engaging in it, whether it's happening to you or you were the one initiating. And then the. The memory that comes with that because, like, that's something that you have to now live with for the rest of your life and then the decisions that you're making. And we're watching, though, like, we're watching Dolores and in particular, like, specifically, we're watching her question everything that she was doing. And it's one thing when you question, like, why did I eat that hamburger on Monday? I knew my. But then there's another thing to question, like, you know, why did I blow up a building? Or like, why did I, you know, blow up a neighborhood? Like, like, why did I do these things? Like that. That's something that is, like, really. That was really intriguing to me. And, and the fact that, you know, when I did go and read the book, like, that's happening there. And you get it even more because obviously it's a book. So there's. So you get the. In. You get more of the story and you see where the influences came from. Like, obviously we knew her father and her mother. The. The sisters were influenced by their parents, but we didn't know to what extent.

Jeff O'Neill (18:09)

Yeah.

Randy Winston (18:10)

And then. And then you see it and you go, oh, wait, wait, this is a lifestyle like this. This is, you know, this is how people were. Are raised. And so it's, you know, I think as I get older, I'll be 39 this year. I'll be 40 next year. Like, there's this reality that has to be understood that there's not. Like, obviously people do good things, people do bad things, but also people do both. And like, what. Like, what do we do with that? And I think that this is a great. This is. This was a great story on that. On that thread. And obviously it's not, you know, you can take These films and these books in a vacuum. But also there's a history that happened before that story as well. And I. And I. And I think that's important for folks to remember when they're watching these shows and when they're reading these books is the story that happened and the history that happened before those stories.

Jeff O'Neill (19:09)

Yeah, yeah. And I was. Got to thinking about it too. I got to think about Remains of the Day by Chagura the other day for I don't remember why, but that's also a story about someone's reason who puts. Someone. Who puts their trust in someone or something and realizes at the end he's like, damn it, you know, I may have misplaced that. And I believed it at the time, and what do I do with it? Maybe we didn't, you know, And I think that kind of after action, doubt or perspective is not something that's talked about very often, both on the winners and losers of history side. And not for nothing, one of the singular episodes of TV I've ever seen when they're in prison. I mean, kind of as a standalone episode when they. When Marion and Dolores are in prison. I've never seen anything like that. And frankly, if you don't want to watch the whole season, that episode alone has a lot. I mean, I. Again, I don't want to spoil it, but they're in prison. It's history. So it's history. So it's not really a spoiler. But they go on a hunger strike. And the way it's presented and the realities of that and the iron will of these young women is on. And I'm. That's not. That's not hyperbole for me. I. I found it hard to believe that actually happened. They actually did that. So say nothing. Okay, Rebecca, you steer us from here. We got Randy's two out of the way that he conveniently picked things that we love. That was very kind and generous of him. Where do you want to go?

Rebecca Schinsky (20:29)

I'll just run through some highlights. And Randy, if you've seen the. Any of these, jump in. I haven't seen all of them, so. Other things that came out recently that folks might want to pick up or maybe haven't realized are adaptations. Queer starring Daniel Craig, adapted from the William S. Burroughs autobiographical novel written in 1950s, came out in the 1980s, and Daniel Craig plays a character that's functionally an avatar for Burroughs. Have you seen this? I haven't had a chance to see it yet.

Randy Winston (20:56)

I have not had a chance to see that yet. I really want to see this. I think that's this weekend for me.

Rebecca Schinsky (21:03)

The Return, which I saw over the holidays, based on the end of the Odyssey, when Odysseus comes back to the island, finds his wife, who is supposed to be picking a new king, starring Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoche, is written by John Colley, Edward Bond, and Uberto Pasolini. Directed by Pasolini. One of the best things I saw last year and I. Rebecca, you came.

Jeff O'Neill (21:25)

Out of the theater texting like. Like you were coming back from Troy.

Rebecca Schinsky (21:29)

I'm having a moment here where, like, I saw that. And then we got the news that Christopher Nolan is adapting the Odyssey next year. Oh, Randy, the face you made just now was so great. Had you not heard this?

Randy Winston (21:40)

Am I. I cannot wait. I. I've been like. I. I hate when they do those announcements because now I have to wait.

Rebecca Schinsky (21:47)

Yeah, yeah. Come back and do Hot Greek Summer with us next summer.

Jeff O'Neill (21:50)

Tell me, do. Do they do those. Randy. So that we. Shut up already. So you say you have to wonder what Nolan's doing or to build hype earlier. Like, what is the strategy behind that kind of wait for three years?

Randy Winston (22:01)

Well, if something. Something was happening there where they were slowly releasing names of actors who were being picked up for this thing that Christopher Nolan's doing. So obviously, when that starts happening, everyone's like, hey, what's.

Jeff O'Neill (22:17)

What's.

Randy Winston (22:18)

So I don't know if the timing of the announcement of what the film was going to be was because of the pressure that they were receiving or if it was just a part of the strategic rollout, but now we're all just sitting on. We're just waiting.

Rebecca Schinsky (22:31)

Yeah, we're just. We were just like dream cast on our episode.

Jeff O'Neill (22:36)

Well, the scale of the production is going to be such that there's going to be a lot of loose lips at some point. Right. You can't hide, you know, if you have Robert Pattinson in a toga or Nuongo turning people into swine. Like, it's going to come out pretty quick that we're. We're shooting the Odyssey. There's not a lot of plausible deniability to be had around that.

Randy Winston (22:52)

I do. I. I think I heard rumor that cell phones are not allowed on set. That doesn't mean that people won't say anything, but it does mean that it'll be hard to get secret footage.

Jeff O'Neill (23:03)

Yeah. Pattinson smoking a cigarette while on the beaches of Ithaca or something like that. So, yeah. Excited for that. And also, I mean, I know it's. It's centered to our heart. That in Fines and Binoche, we get an English Patient reunion. Rebecca, too. Yes, Rebecca and Vanessa. Randy on our show talked about Night. Both the book.

Randy Winston (23:23)

Can we talk about Night?

Jeff O'Neill (23:24)

Let's talk about it. I'll sit down. I'll have my cigarette now while you.

Rebecca Schinsky (23:29)

Please put your face back in your hands, Randy. Because that's how I felt about this adaptation.

Randy Winston (23:34)

Wow. I mean, first, Amy Adams is. You know, Amy Adams doesn't do wrong on screen at all. I mean, a story about motherhood and a very different take on it, too. And not to say that that story is unfamiliar, but on screen, I haven't seen that that much, and I don't know why, but you know, very much a story about the body and. And the effects of changes that the body has and how that affects the folks around you, your relationships. And also, like, how you. How. How a mother sees her child and what sacrifice as you're trying to raise a human being. I just. I was deeply in love with the story.

Rebecca Schinsky (24:20)

Did you read the book?

Randy Winston (24:21)

So I have the book here. I have not read it yet, but. And this is the thing I noticed. Some people say, oh, you, You. You read the book first, then you watch it. But in this case, this character is so in, like. And so intriguing and so big. I. I want to read the book now because I know going in what I'm. What I'm looking for, what I'm sitting down and I'm going to be excited about is the interiority of this character.

Rebecca Schinsky (24:46)

Yeah.

Randy Winston (24:47)

Because I know I'm not getting all of that on screen. So now I'm thrilled because now I get to sit with this book that Rachel wrote, and I'm like, yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Schinsky (24:55)

I had the inverse experience. I read Nightbitch last month, like, in one sitting on a plane. I just, like, couldn't put it down. It is phenomenal. And I came back and told Jeff, I have no idea how they're gonna do this on screen. I think they did as good of a job as is possible to, like, capture that interiority. The body horror stuff, that was pretty good. Like, I was surprised how some of those scenes were similar to, like, some of the scenes in the substance. And maybe that's just because I saw them close together. But the ending of the book, if you thought the movie is sharp, the book is so much sharper, and the ending of the book is really, really different. So I struggled with the ending of the movie because I thought they softened up a lot of the message. So I think you are in For a treat, like, please call me after you read the book.

Randy Winston (25:39)

That's what I figured. I was. Even though I enjoyed it, I was a little bit like, oh, I didn't. I wasn't expecting that this would be the way they ended this story. So I am excited to know that that is not. Because, you know, I don't. Did you read Eileen by Otissa Moore?

Rebecca Schinsky (25:56)

Yes. Yeah.

Randy Winston (25:57)

Okay. So I'm, so. I'm almost done with that.

Rebecca Schinsky (26:00)

Okay.

Randy Winston (26:01)

And I know that there's a film and I know that the film can.

Rebecca Schinsky (26:05)

It does not.

Randy Winston (26:06)

I know it can't because Otessa is.

Rebecca Schinsky (26:08)

Like, she's willing to be so gross.

Jeff O'Neill (26:11)

She's real gross. Yeah. Real gross.

Randy Winston (26:13)

And. And I'm. I don't know what this says about me, but I'm enjoying that. I'm. I'm enjoying that writers are doing that on the page.

Rebecca Schinsky (26:20)

Yeah.

Randy Winston (26:20)

That they're letting their characters just go. And, and obviously that's just like the early Otessa. So the books after, I'm. I'm excited about it.

Jeff O'Neill (26:29)

Well, it's an interesting point. We were talking about this in a different context of Miranda July's All Fours and frankly Fourth Wing by Rebecca Rios the other day, where because of ratings and box office and whatever, movies aren't gonna let the freak flag fly in a way that actually pretty. Not run of the mill, but stuff that's on the front table of a Barnes and Noble you walk into, if they shot it, shot for shot would be x rated or NC17 or something.

Rebecca Schinsky (26:53)

You could be a lot weirder on the page.

Jeff O'Neill (26:54)

Yeah, it can be a lot weirder on the page. And I guess that goes a little bit to what we were talking about with the Burrows. And like, it's rare where, you know, the movie punches past where the book does. It's much more likely for the. The movie to have to pull a punch a little bit. But having said that, you know, you can get some that are pretty weird. And Night is an interesting test case. I'm just glad they tried this. I look forward. I haven't seen the adaptation. I did read the book over break.

Rebecca Schinsky (27:21)

But all the dollars for Rachel Yoder just. Let's keep her going.

Jeff O'Neill (27:24)

That's right.

Randy Winston (27:25)

Yes. Like you. You will. You will enjoy it very much.

Jeff O'Neill (27:28)

We don't. I don't really know what to do with biopics because there's biopics of, you know, biographies of celebrities every which way. I know this one is more directly. This is. We're going to talk about a complete unknown for A minute. Adapted by. From Dylan Goes Electric by Elijah Wald. Chalamet quickly being the clown prince of adaptations. We've got Dune. We've got what's the Asiman now? I've just read my Roman year. I can't remember. Come on. Call me by your name.

Rebecca Schinsky (27:50)

Call me by your name. Yeah.

Jeff O'Neill (27:51)

And then we did a Wonka version and now we're doing this and he's.

Rebecca Schinsky (27:55)

On a hell of an Oscar campaign.

Jeff O'Neill (27:56)

Yeah. So it's going to be him and Craig. Is that who we're looking at for? I mean, they're going to be duking it out for best actor. I think when we're looking at Queer and Chalamet and some others.

Rebecca Schinsky (28:05)

Maybe we'll find out next week. The Oscar nominations come out on the 17th.

Randy Winston (28:09)

Yeah.

Jeff O'Neill (28:10)

This is when I saw. I am not interested in this. I will watch this eventually. I have. I love Dylan and fear Dylan and I'm confused by Dylan. I actually thought I'm not here. Which was. Came out a while ago where like, like six or eight actors played different versions of Dylan. I was like, I'm good. Someone did a Dylan thing that's as or more interesting than Dylan. I'm sure this is great. It looks good. I like Jim Mangold, but I'm not. I'm kind of nowhere with this. Randy or Rebecca. Are you excited about this? I know it's out there in the ether and it's. It's a Chalamet story. Maybe this movie doesn't get made if Chalamet's not interested. I think it's interesting choice for him, frankly. But as a movie watcher, I'm like at a 5 out of 10 of how much I'm gonna get my ass out of my chair and go to a movie theater and see it.

Randy Winston (28:59)

He's on a hot streak. And I must say I. I will watch. I will give anything that Timothy's in a chance.

Jeff O'Neill (29:07)

Yeah.

Randy Winston (29:08)

So I. I will watch it. I don't know that I'm excited about it.

Jeff O'Neill (29:11)

Yeah.

Rebecca Schinsky (29:12)

But that's how I feel about it.

Randy Winston (29:13)

Will I will watch it? Will I watch it in theaters? Yet to be determined. But I will. I will watch it.

Rebecca Schinsky (29:20)

Yeah. That's about where I'm. I don't have any particular relationship to Dylan. I'm pretty neutral. I'm most interested in what happens when actors play singers and they do the singing themselves. Like, that is the part of this that I'm the most curious about. And Chalamet is getting pretty good reviews for what he was able to do. Performing someone with a really unique voice. So curious about that, but I feel like this is going to be a like, February Friday night streamer for me, probably.

Jeff O'Neill (29:46)

I mean, let's be honest. Dylan's not Pavarotti. Like, you know, in terms of singers you're going to have to try to imitate.

Rebecca Schinsky (29:53)

Singular.

Jeff O'Neill (29:54)

Yeah. But almost makes it better. It's like doing an impression. Right. I mean, it's not a virtue. His. His vocal instrument is not his gift. I guess to put it charitably at this point. I mean, I love Dylan.

Randy Winston (30:05)

I. Timothy has not let me down yet. I will say that.

Jeff O'Neill (30:08)

Yeah. What's the worst movie he's been in? It's not really been in a bad one. Like, Beautiful Boy didn't do very. I mean, it wasn't bad in it. It wasn't a bad movie. It's just kind of low key. All right, now, the last one that Rebecca has down here, Randy, looks like a pic I had not heard of.

Rebecca Schinsky (30:21)

Me neither.

Jeff O'Neill (30:22)

Pedro Paramo. You want to talk about that one real quick?

Randy Winston (30:24)

Oh, my God. So this is actually a translation. This is a translated literature, which in terms of adaptations, I don't see a lot, or at least I haven't watched a lot. I don't want to. I don't want to do that. But I read the book. Holy crap. It is very. And obviously I won't spoil it for you, but I'll tell you this. On the first page, a boy. This man is with his mom. She's on her deathbed and she says, you need to go find your father and take back everything that he's promised us. So this guy sets out on this journey to this town to find his lost father. And it's. It's like this rural Mexican town and things happen immediately. Things start happening immediately. And that's all I'm gonna say.

Rebecca Schinsky (31:15)

I'm so sold.

Randy Winston (31:16)

The writing is insane. It is. It's like magical realism. There's spirits, there's go. Like there's. There's a lot happening in this town. It's steeped in Mexican culture. It is so good. And the show. And it has a lot to do with the afterlife. The show or the movie is on Netflix. So I watched a movie recently, and you know it. For people who love the book, it does the thing that folks that generally want to see an adaptation does, which if it follows the book to the T, which, you know, there are people, there are camps of folks that will say, I want the director to be creative and try something different. And then there are camps to say, don't mess this up. And so for people to say don't mess this up. I think that that movie really follows the book as close as possible. And it's not one of those things where it's not like one of those films or books where you have to spend a big budget. So it's, it's very much within the range of somebody being able to follow closely.

Rebecca Schinsky (32:24)

How did you first encounter the book?

Randy Winston (32:26)

Actually, a good friend of mine from mfa, we were in the bookstore at the center for Fiction and she picks it up and she throws it at me and she goes, you buying this?

Rebecca Schinsky (32:35)

It's the best way.

Randy Winston (32:36)

So I read it over the break. It, it was it. It's. It's not long. It's a Nollas. It's incredible. The writing is absolutely beautiful. If in terms of literary merit, it's like one of those timeless pieces, it's really good. And the cast in the film, a.

Jeff O'Neill (32:56)

One that reminds me and, and I didn't think of it till just now. Which I think is maybe telling about what its relative Q rating is right now. December 11th on Netflix, we got an eight episode adaptation of 100 Years of Solitude by Gabriel G. Marquez. And I haven't heard anything about it.

Randy Winston (33:12)

I haven't heard.

Jeff O'Neill (33:13)

It's eight episodes long. It's Spanish language. That's what triggered for me. Randy, say translations. Oh yeah, that reminds me. I should be prime candidate to watch this. I think the problem is not my favorite Marquez. It's been a million years since I read it. But I'm super interested. Eight episodes. I don't know. I'm just not sure what to do with this. I don't know. Why am I less excited about this? I can't figure this out.

Randy Winston (33:36)

Did you love the book?

Jeff O'Neill (33:38)

I did.

Randy Winston (33:39)

That's why you love the book.

Jeff O'Neill (33:42)

So I have to hate the book to be excited? That doesn't make any sense. Randy, come on.

Randy Winston (33:47)

One of my good friends, Tracy Thomas told me, she said, randy, it's the boring books that I'll get excited about the movie. I love the book. I don't want us to end. You know, I'm opposite.

Rebecca Schinsky (33:57)

But that's really interesting. I think I'm somewhere in the middle where if I really, really love the book, I have to have like a ton of faith in the director that it's going to be good. So like I feel good about Nickel Boys because I believe that Ramel Ross will do something great. I love Gilead and that whole series by Marilyn Robinson. I am very Nervous about Martin Scorsese and like, Jeff and I have talked about how nervous we are about Take a Waititi doing Clara and the Sun. Like big open questions about that. But if I liked a book or there's some hook in it, like Night, where it's like, how will they do this? If there's a big question for me about how something will be translated, the curiosity will bridge the gap for me there. That'll get me to see something.

Randy Winston (34:41)

I will say one more thing about Pedro, about translated literature in general. I love that the film honored that because it's all Spanish and you know, you read the closed captioning and I did that and it was great. But I just love that they. The book, you know, obviously the book that I have is in English, but it was translated. But the, you know, the author who wrote it originally is Juan Rufo. And so they honor that and I appreciate that a lot. It's really good.

Jeff O'Neill (35:13)

I know that Rebecca has written on her calendar that Dogman, based on the series by Dave Pilkey, is coming out January. Is that a midnight release showing? Are you okay to do 8am the next day? Where are you?

Rebecca Schinsky (35:24)

Was the about until I googled this yesterday. This is the glory of not having small children, but I do know that Dov Pilkey has made a bajillion dollars on this, and this is going to be a big deal.

Randy Winston (35:34)

Awesome.

Jeff O'Neill (35:36)

Randy, can you get a Dogma series?

Randy Winston (35:40)

Rebecca, you're actually the person that put it on my radar. So now I have to dive in.

Jeff O'Neill (35:47)

Well, if you have a six to nine year old, there's a good chance. This is the most important cultural document on their bookshelf. Dog, man, man. And I'm gonna sound like I'm having a stroke while I describe it. Essentially, there's a police officer that gets into a terrible accident and they bring him back to life by fusing him with a dog. So it's a police officer with the head of a dog and the body of a man. And the strength of both, Randy. I mean, when you think about it, think of all the things you could do with the head of a dog. Not one comes to mind.

Rebecca Schinsky (36:15)

They got big names for this. Isla Fisher and Poppy Lou.

Jeff O'Neill (36:20)

And yeah, it's gonna make a million dollars. I mean, it's gonna make a bunch of money. Like every. Every. There's like 16 in the series. Every time one comes out, it sells 200, 000 copies in a week. But it's like. It's like saying there's a 12th planet in the solar system that we know nothing about because it's just seven and eight and nine year olds. But that's coming out. Going a little bit less and more relevant to me at the same point. I'm not sure where we at in the Bridget Jones series, but apparently there's another one coming out. I. Rebecca, you put this in here. You probably did a little bit of half ass Internet.

Rebecca Schinsky (36:50)

It is, yes.

Jeff O'Neill (36:52)

Is this actually based on one? Based on one of these? This is one of the Bridget Jones.

Rebecca Schinsky (36:57)

Not about the Boy. I think this is just the continuation of nostalgia that's produced for millennials. This is millennial wish fulfillment. Basically. It is Renee Zellweger. Hugh Grant is coming back. We are, you know, farther into Bridget Jones's life now. Apparently she has become a widow. I don't know that I've seen a Bridget Jones Jones movie since the first one. This is in the logbook. So now she's a single mom and she's, you know, being held up by her community, which includes the character that Hugh Grant plays, Daniel, who is her former lover and also her former boss, sometimes at the same time. And it's. She's getting on the apps. It's how Bridget Jones got her groove back, I think, is what's happening here. It's coming out February 13th. This is on the list because it's interesting, but also this is a pretty dry season for new adaptations, as evidenced by the fact that the first 45 minutes of this episode are all things that have already come out.

Randy Winston (37:54)

I mean, wait, are we. We're still going?

Rebecca Schinsky (37:58)

Yeah.

Randy Winston (37:59)

Okay.

Jeff O'Neill (38:00)

We're still going.

Randy Winston (38:01)

If April is a part of the season. Okay, the season. The Amateur by Robert Lutel.

Rebecca Schinsky (38:11)

That's also on the list.

Randy Winston (38:13)

Yes, yes. Really looking forward to that. Obviously, CIA spy thriller. Right up my alley. Can't wait.

Rebecca Schinsky (38:20)

Yeah, I saw the trailer for this at the theater last week, and it looks fantastic. So as you were saying, Randy, it's based on the novel by Robert Littell. It's about a CIA cryptographer whose wife is killed by a terrorist group. So he's like a desk guy. He sits at a desk and he cracks codes. Yeah, he's a guy in the chair.

Jeff O'Neill (38:38)

He's a guy in the chair. He's a guy in the chair.

Rebecca Schinsky (38:40)

He blackmails the agency to let him the one to go after the bad guys. And the trailer's got scenes with him, like, trying to shoot a gun and one of the regular CIA operatives being like, you're not the kind of guy who could kill a man. And he's like, maybe not with a gun, but maybe I can crack the pool that he's swimming in and that'll kill him. Like that kind of stuff. It does look phenomenal. It's starring Rami Malek, Rachel Brosnahan, and John Bernthal shows up in the trailer. So I'm automatically in love. Him too.

Jeff O'Neill (39:09)

Yeah, you gotta look. I think this could work. It's like, you know how they do Uber for X? They could do a whole series of movies. Like, what if X was suddenly a spy all of a sudden? A nurse, you know, a doordash driver.

Rebecca Schinsky (39:20)

It's like the vibe plumber.

Jeff O'Neill (39:21)

All of it would be great.

Rebecca Schinsky (39:23)

John Wick esque revenge. Like the guy is set out for revenge. It's his wife this time instead of his dog. Married with the Liam Neeson. I'm a man with a very particular set of skills. Taken saying, like, I'm here for this combo.

Jeff O'Neill (39:36)

Yeah, but you know what? MacGyver worked. MacGyver works these super elaborate ways of killing people. The Rube Goldberg would have been a great show. It is known that that works. Yeah. Unironically excited for Paddington in Peru coming out February 14, 2025. The first two Paddington movies are absolute gems. I had zero expectation walking to the first one. That's when my kids were like five and seven and literally anything we could all four go and watch. I was excited to go see in the movie theater and eat popcorn, even if to dissociate for a couple hours. But generally found them both enchanting. Paul King, who directed the first two, is not coming back for this one. I don't know if it's contract or whatever. He. This. He was involved in the story, executive producing it. That can be smoke screen. I'm not really sure. A little worried about the politics of Peru and, you know, having a zany time there. Not so sure how well that's going to go, but Ben Wash voice. Ben Wishaw's voicing of Paddington is delightful. And Emily Mortimer, Hugh Bonneville and a bunch of other people there. I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt. Though I will say my kids are also several years older, so they're not quite in prime Paddington Zone. We're all kind of like, oh yeah, we'll ask. But is this a trip to the.

Rebecca Schinsky (40:49)

Theater for y'all at this point or is this a Friday night at home on the co.

Jeff O'Neill (40:55)

In February in Portland? We're looking for a reason to get out of the house. So we might. We might hit a 9:00am you know.

Rebecca Schinsky (41:02)

I love a Saturday morning.

Jeff O'Neill (41:03)

Discount tickets at some point for that. Randy, are you on the Paddington? I don't know that I'm on the.

Randy Winston (41:09)

Train, but I have nieces. They. They like it. And so, you know, whatever they like, I like. I'll watch it.

Jeff O'Neill (41:15)

So, yeah. Following that, I think is the. Is the movie of the season in a lot of ways, at least for me. Mickey 17 coming out. Directed and written by Bong Joon Ho, featuring Toni Collette, Stephen Nguyen, Mark Ruffalo, and of course starring Robert Pattinson. The trailer is a trip. He's an expendable, so he. A bunch of clones are made of him to do different jobs and they get killed in a bunch of different ways. Robert Pattinson is making a choice, I will say with a voice. He is choosing to do with this. I think it kind of works on me all of a sudden. This is the first movie since Parasite for Bong and a bigger budget. Sci fi. Tonally strange based on the book.

Rebecca Schinsky (42:01)

Yeah, it's Mickey 7.

Jeff O'Neill (42:03)

Is it Mickey 7 or is that a typo?

Rebecca Schinsky (42:04)

There's some.

Jeff O'Neill (42:05)

There's 10 is more.

Rebecca Schinsky (42:07)

10 is more that it's 17 for the film, but I forgot what it is.

Randy Winston (42:11)

This is the holy grail of adaptation, which is big. I like big stories. This is a big world. Big story like this is it.

Rebecca Schinsky (42:19)

Yeah. And Bong Joon. Holly, come on.

Randy Winston (42:21)

Yeah. I'm excited for this mainly because it's big. Like, when I read a book, if my imagination starts to take me off the path, I know I want to see it. I want to see what it looks like. Mainly because it's like if you think about something like the Hunger Games and Minority Report, if you read those, you're like, whoa, this is interesting. What would a director do with this? And I think that's what this is doing also. I don't want to jump ahead. I'm not going to jump.

Jeff O'Neill (42:54)

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay, that's fine. So I'm really excited for that. An interesting release time. March, for a big movie like that. It kind of feels like it's not quite a award season fodder, but also not quite a summer blockbuster. So I guess you put it in something like March. Randy, you would know better than I about how those things are positioned. One I added here. I watched the trailer with my kids and we looked at each other like, I think we want to see this also. I feel like maybe that was a generative AI trailer, but it's also real. It's the Electric State, which is based on the graphics novel by Simon. Was that what you were just about to jump in? Starring Millie Bobby Brown, Chris Pratt, and as far as I can tell, Chris Pratt's wig is the third lead in this particular movie. The Russo brothers sort of ending their Netflix sojourn before they re enter the warm embrace of Marvel money over there. It's not. It's not gone horribly well, I would say, for their experiences with Netflix. So I didn't look up the synopsis on purpose because I'm trying to describe what I think is happening here based on the trailer. We are in a post apocalypse. We are post, post apocalypse. Right. Randy's gonna correct me. He's nodding like he actually know what the hell he's talking about. Which is always nice to have someone who does. Millie Bobby Brown and Chris Pratt kind of do a wolf and cub, it sounds like, where Chris Pratt is more of a wizened experience. I don't know why his frosted tips that's important to his skill set. I'm not really sure. And what's happened is these giant stuffed animal robots rebelled against their human overlords, it sounds like. And then things went south after that. So we're sort of after that rebellion. And it looks like they're going to team up with some of these leftover hybrid bonkers looking creatures to do Very close. Randy, am I close? How far away am I?

Randy Winston (44:46)

And it's, you know, about a teenage girl and her toy robot traveling west and. Yeah. That this is after. So society disparaged by high tech and, you know, virtual reality systems. I love this. This is. Not only is it big, but it's timely.

Rebecca Schinsky (45:03)

It kind of sounds like a Last of Us vibe. That pairing between them. Is that kind of the right mode?

Randy Winston (45:09)

Yeah.

Jeff O'Neill (45:12)

I can't really tell who it's for because it's not a kid show. I mean, is it. It's not a kid show, but it's also not Last of Us. I don't think it's going to have a lot of like, really gory stuff. So it's kind of in between, which is kind of where Millie Bobby Brown has found a sweet spot sort of with the Anola homes and the King Kong Godzilla stuff. I think if you have Millie Bobby Brown and at this point it means, like, if you're 14, you're going to be interested in this kind of title. And I don't. I mean, they spent all the money on it. I've never seen some of the images they're showing in this trailer. I'm not sure. That my brain could make any kind of sense out of it, but I, I think I'll try.

Rebecca Schinsky (45:46)

Based on a graphic novel.

Jeff O'Neill (45:47)

Is that right? My ass can be at home.

Randy Winston (45:50)

Yeah.

Jeff O'Neill (45:50)

A Swedish graphic novel. I believe it's Swedish. Simon Stalinhag. My, my, it looks. I, I, I really, I, I like to go on YouTube with my family, like, when we're not sure what to watch. And just watch upcoming movie trailers. And I'm not sure if you guys have this experience. There's so many fake ones now. Like, the AI Stuff has made so many fake ones. Like, we got taken in by a new. There was a, like, trailer for the next Jason Bourne starring Matt Damon.

Rebecca Schinsky (46:15)

Terrible.

Jeff O'Neill (46:16)

And they had like, generative AI is like, wait. It took me about 45 seconds to be like, wait a minute. This is. And this took me almost the whole trailer of Electric State to be like, wait a minute.

Randy Winston (46:26)

I will tell you, when I saw Electric State trailer, I was like, I'm like, this is not real. Like, but I meant it in like a. Oh, I want to see this. They're playing a trick on me. So maybe I was thinking the same thing you were thinking.

Jeff O'Neill (46:41)

Yeah, we were, we were coming at it from the ceiling.

Rebecca Schinsky (46:43)

We had to watch this trailer. I felt like I was on drugs listening to that description.

Jeff O'Neill (46:50)

Well, you are not going to sober up when you actually fire it up. Let me put it that way. Speaking of trailers that make you feel like you're on Drugs. Snow White, March 21, live action Disney. Starring Rachel Zegler.

Rebecca Schinsky (47:03)

Gal Gadot as the evil Queen.

Jeff O'Neill (47:05)

Randy, I'm gonna do you a favor. Please, please don't watch this trailer. Because when they cut to the seven dwarfs, the air, the, the uncanny valley becomes the Marianas Trench.

Randy Winston (47:18)

I've seen this trailer.

Jeff O'Neill (47:22)

Yeah, you have. You probably.

Rebecca Schinsky (47:24)

You know what?

Jeff O'Neill (47:24)

Your, your, your neurological immune system kicked in, and you're like, you know what? We're gonna put that away. We're gonna, we're gonna put that away. I think if, I feel like if Disney had this to do over, they would also.

Rebecca Schinsky (47:35)

Why are we continuing to do this? I just, I mean, it makes money.

Jeff O'Neill (47:38)

But, well, they, they've performed well enough. I think some of these have performed pretty well, even if you haven't. Mike. This is anathema to me, and I, I, I'm worried about saying this because it's true. My kids. I can't even say the words. Prefer the Will Smith Aladdin to the Robin Williams Aladdin, but, but, but in the Beauty and the Beast did a billion dollars live action I don't think Mufasa has done as well. It's coming on a little bit later. But there's money in them. Their live action remakes. That's. That's all that's happening. This one.

Randy Winston (48:14)

I mean, did we.

Jeff O'Neill (48:15)

Oh, boy, oh, boy. Can we tax. Write off this one?

Rebecca Schinsky (48:19)

This one for the tax writer like it did. I know that movie made money, Rebecca.

Jeff O'Neill (48:27)

I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. What do you think? I mean, the live action. I feels like the blue might be off the roads. We're gonna get a Lilo and Stitch one. I. I don't know. Randy's kind of trend.

Randy Winston (48:39)

I. I don't know that I'm with it on these remakes. I really don't. I. You know what? I say that as somebody. What's the name of that film? I say that as somebody who really enjoyed Day of the Jackal, which is also an adaptation and has been, you know, is a remake. But I didn't see those originals, so I. I guess I fall into the same seat as your.

Jeff O'Neill (49:03)

Yeah, right. You like the Will Smith of Aladdin, of the day of the jackpots.

Rebecca Schinsky (49:09)

Be nice to Randy. We want him to come back.

Jeff O'Neill (49:13)

No, I understand it because I like the. I like the Pierce Brosnan Thomas Crown Affair better than the original, but that's just the one that came out when I was. Yeah, but people that, like. Is it the Steve McQueen one? The earlier one?

Rebecca Schinsky (49:24)

Maybe. Yeah. Randy will be the last on this podcast to join us here in the 40s. So you're keeping us young.

Jeff O'Neill (49:32)

The 40 Club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the last one we had on our list was the amateur, so that's April 11th. That brings us to the end. Randy and Rebecca, let's all do. Are we all most excited for Mickey 17? I guess now we maybe have perversely intrigued.

Rebecca Schinsky (49:48)

Electric Steak sounds like a Friday night with a gummy to me. So, like, I'll just. That's gonna live in a different zone of experience for me. I think I'm the most excited about the Amateur. It's just closer to the genre that I tend to enjoy more. But if Mickey 17 comes out to good reviews, I will see it really quickly.

Randy Winston (50:07)

Yeah.

Jeff O'Neill (50:11)

Yeah. All right, Randy, tell us about what you.

Randy Winston (50:14)

What are we working on right now? So we have a very exciting partnership that I can't discuss. But when. When it comes out, we will talk.

Jeff O'Neill (50:21)

Okay.

Rebecca Schinsky (50:23)

Yeah.

Randy Winston (50:26)

And we released our adaptation list, which was first of its kind, in December last month. So that. That's been really exciting because we were Able to talk, tell people what that.

Jeff O'Neill (50:38)

Is, what you did with that.

Randy Winston (50:40)

We surveyed 60 or so industry members in publishing, so like agents and editors and people from publishing houses. And we asked them, what are the books that you would love to see adapted that have been published in the past 20 years in honor of our 20 year anniversary. And folks responded and it was really exciting to go through that list and see the, see, see the books that you knew would be there and then see the books that you're like, ah, where is that?

Rebecca Schinsky (51:10)

Yeah, there were some fun surprises.

Randy Winston (51:13)

Yeah. And it's, you know, these are industry members. So these are people who might have been a part of that process, might not have been a part of that process, but know, you know, the work that goes into putting a book together. So it was just really exciting to get their take on what should be on a screen.

Jeff O'Neill (51:30)

Yeah, there were 61. We'll put a link in the show notes if you want to go. Like some of them are in process and you didn't necessarily need to know. I mean I was, I was joyous to see, I mean, because it was alphabetical. I've been stumping for Age of Ice by Deepti Kapoor since it came out. I was thrilled to see that. I know Rebecca was thrilled to see all fours on there with the second key. And then at some point we're gonna get a Sean Cosby and SA Cosby adaptation. It's just a matter of time. Do we think his next one is King of Something? Rebecca, do you know off the Top of King of Ashes was optioned by, I think by the Obama's production company and Netflix. So that might be the first one we're gonna get. And then you just go all the way down from there. I thought it was not. I mean, if you were gonna do a reading list for your next few years, this is not the worst one.

Randy Winston (52:15)

The only thing I would, the only thing I would say is that we did not get enough YA and children's books because, you know, those get adapted too. But all in all, I was very excited to see the Night Circus on there. I do think that's a big budget, but I was thrilled to see that on there.

Rebecca Schinsky (52:33)

That's one of those that we've wondered aloud on the show if we have missed the moment where it can be adapted because we're kind of past peak streaming. Most of the big adaptable properties, the top tier names have been snapped up and I don't know, maybe, you know, if it's been optioned and just is like floating around somewhere or I'm sure that. Right.

Jeff O'Neill (52:57)

Everything like that gets an option.

Rebecca Schinsky (52:59)

So magical. How will they pull it off that. That talk about high wire act.

Randy Winston (53:03)

Yeah. Because you, you have to find the right director, you got to find the right cast and then you have to find somebody who's going to finance it and all those things have to work at the same exact time. So yeah, I mean the, the good news is it's option like a lot of these books that we want to see. Our option. It's. It's just that you gotta find the right crew to take it the next level.

Rebecca Schinsky (53:26)

So is there.

Jeff O'Neill (53:29)

Yeah. I think the other thing I was wondering about too, not just kids book. There's not enough probably straight ahead romance for things that, I mean a lot of that gets optioned in other ways.

Rebecca Schinsky (53:38)

Like a lot of things right as they come out right now are the Emily Henry's. The movie deals are being announced like almost before the books are out.

Jeff O'Neill (53:45)

Out.

Randy Winston (53:47)

Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff O'Neill (53:50)

Randy, thank you so much for joining us. We have to have you back and in the summer, I mean I guess for adaptations, the fall season is because there's a lot of them.

Rebecca Schinsky (53:58)

I'm gonna lure Randy back to do book nerd movie hour about Nickel boys with us. Widely available.

Randy Winston (54:04)

Yes.

Jeff O'Neill (54:07)

All right, thanks everyone. Link in the show notes bookride.com listen. Shoot us an email podcast@bookriot.com if you got feedback. Go check out the blacklist and what Randy and Franklin and the rest of the crew are up to over there.

Rebecca Schinsky (54:19)

They've got a podcast, got a site.

Jeff O'Neill (54:21)

You can hook up with them, track up. They've got a podcast too. And you know, once Electric State is the best picture front runner. We will come back in January. Chris Pratt's hairpiece.