Book Riot – The Podcast

Episode: The 2025 Nobel Prize in Literature, NBA Finalists, and More Award Season News. PLUS: Hachette CEO David Shelley

Date: October 13, 2025
Hosts: Jeff O’Neal (Book Riot), Sharifah Williams (guest host)

Episode Overview

This jam-packed episode dives deep into the world of literary awards and industry news, covering the just-announced 2025 Nobel Prize in Literature, the National Book Award (NBA) and Kirkus Prize finalists, chaos in library distribution land, and wraps with a substantial, insightful interview with Hachette CEO David Shelley on banned books, publishing diversity, and the UK–US book trade.

Main Themes & Highlights

• 2025 Nobel Prize in Literature: Reaction to the selection of Laszlo Krasnohorkai, his work, and the perennial “who actually reads Nobel winners?” conundrum.
• Awards Roundup: Analysis and personal picks from NBA and Kirkus Prize shortlists, plus a chat about the “MacArthur Genius Awards.”
• Library Distribution Chaos: The likely collapse of Baker & Taylor has librarians scrambling; discussion on possible industry impacts.
• Publishing Trends: Book formats across countries, literary tastes, and distribution of diverse voices in publishing.
• Interview – David Shelley (Hachette CEO): A thoughtful and surprisingly candid conversation on banning, censorship, DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion) in publishing, and the future of reading.

Detailed Breakdown & Notable Moments

Nobel Prize in Literature: Laszlo Krasnohorkai

[01:03–10:59]

• Announcement & Reactions

  • Jeff and Sharifah admit, with humor, their imagined distance from many Nobel selections:

    "The Nobel Prize for Literature was awarded this morning to Laszlo Krasnohorkai... and has gone on to write the kinds of books that feel like parodies of the kinds of books that win Nobel Prizes." — Jeff O’Neal [01:54]

  • Discussion of Krasnohorkai’s reputation as the “master of the apocalypse,” his stylistic quirks (notably: novels with a single sentence or almost no periods), and recurring anti-fascist themes.

• Accessibility & American Context

  • Sharifah reflects the common US reader experience:

    "We both got a chance to look at it... I, for a long time, have considered the Nobel Prize in literature as one of those awards that recognizes books I will probably never read or have never heard about." — Sharifah Williams [02:48]

  • The duo joke about how Nobel winners often seem like poster children for unreadable literary fiction, and cite the low rate of reading works in translation in the US.

• Krasnohorkai’s Work Explained

  • Jeff reads a description of “Satantango,” touching on its apocalyptic mood and bleakness. They comment on the limited commercial prospects for such a writer in the American market and riff on how a show like Frasier would make a meal out of pretentiousness around Nobel winners [07:51].

  • Sharifah, humorously, on why she’s unlikely to read these books:

    "I was triggered by the idea of reading another, like, especially a super dark, dreary...books don’t sound like they have any sort of neat, tidy resolutions involving morality." [08:22]

Award Season: NBA and Kirkus Prizes

[11:20–22:24]

• NBA Finalists & Fantasy League

  • Sharifah shares her picks for the National Book Award, cheered by several on the longlist making it to the shortlist [11:46].

  • Full fiction and nonfiction shortlists are read out and discussed. Jeff highlights “North Sea” being the wildcard in the fiction group and habits of small presses breaking through.

  • The duo lament Han Kang’s absence from the translated lit shortlist [15:52].

  • Jeff predicts a nonfiction favorite:

    "If I have any chip to put down on the roulette wheel of guessing... I feel like 'One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This' feels like that's going to win for nonfiction." — Jeff O’Neal [16:51]

• Kirkus Prize Winners

  • They note “The Slip” (Lucas Schaefer, fiction), “King of Kings” (Scott Anderson, nonfiction), “Every Belly” (Dao Lam, YA/kids) as winners, and discuss what makes the Kirkus Prize unique (it’s especially lucrative: $50k per category—[20:33]).

  • Jeff’s “doorstopper” fatigue:

    "The single sentence is a bit of a deterrent. 496 pages to me in the year of our Lord 2025... that can be a bit of a deterrent." [19:11]

• MacArthur “Genius” Awards

  • Celebration of Tommy Orange winning, with context on the prize’s meaning for a young writer [22:24].

    "It's a big purse. No strings attached. 800 grand. It's not even like... you can only use this money to write your next, you know, opus or whatever. It's just like, here's... I mean, you're a genius." — Sharifah Williams [22:12]

Library Distribution: Baker & Taylor Turmoil

[30:14–36:18]

• Baker & Taylor, a primary distributor for libraries, is rumored to be shutting down after a failed Readerlink acquisition.

  "We're going to leave a lot of librarians in the... Is that your sense of the playing field, Sharifah, what am I missing on this?" — Jeff O’Neal [30:14]

• Sharifah summarizes the confusion and scramble among libraries reliant on B&T, with Ingram and Amazon stepping in to fill the gaps.

• Jeff offers broader reflections on the fragility caused by industry consolidation, likening it to monocultures in agriculture [36:18].

Frontlist Foyer: Recent Reads & Bookish Life

Sharifah’s Reads

• Intimacies by Katie Kitamura (“not for everybody, but I recognize really great writing” [39:21])
• The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson: Sharifah is immersed in the nonfiction classic about the Great Migration and loving it [40:31].

Jeff’s Reads & Anecdotes

• Explains his thwarted attempt to buy Thomas Pynchon’s new release “Shadow Ticket” on launch day due to it being sold out, speculates on a mini “Pynchon Run” in Portland [43:58].
• He’s exploring Near Flesh by Katherine Dunn and philosophizes about the joys of reading short stories as life gets busier [47:14–50:55].

Iconic Short Stories?

• They discuss “The Lottery” by Shirley Jackson as possibly the most widely-referenced short story in America, and ponder what else would go on a “Zero to Well Read” essentials list [49:02–51:14].

FEATURE INTERVIEW: David Shelley, CEO of Hachette Book Group

[52:36–85:46]

Censorship & Book Banning in the US

• Shelley contrasts his shock coming from the UK (“it’s not really been, thank goodness, been so much of a thing”) to the scale and mechanisms of book challenges in the US.

  "I was slightly shocked by that process, that a single individual just like... it felt, at the very least, very kind of... potentially wasteful of resource and at worst, you know, equating to censorship." [55:13]

• Strong support for public libraries as centers of access and advocates for trusting librarians’ professional judgement:

  "I've always taken the stance, you know, of trusting librarians and educators. You know, that's what they're trained to do." — David Shelley [56:25]

• Discusses the “whack-a-mole” nature of fighting bans state by state, shared industry legal efforts, and the resource intensiveness of lawsuits [56:52–59:47].

Diversity, Equity, Inclusion (DEI) in Publishing

• Shelley notes sustained, if gradual, increases in diversity both in Hachette’s staff and publishing list, but admits progress is incremental, especially at senior levels:

  "Can I say hand on heart, at all levels of seniority, we reflect America? I cannot say that and that is a sad, sobering thing, but I can say that it is a lot better than it was five years ago." — David Shelley [67:31]

• Cites statistics and proactive tracking on “diversity and variety” of published works [67:09–70:04].

• On sales impact of book bans: Banning can raise awareness and even sales through displays and “the Streisand effect,” but says the real harm is for kids denied access:

  "...when books do get banned, it is massively counterproductive... The sad thing is actually, you know, to be fair, it's kids who probably need those books, not getting them." — David Shelley [70:51]

Industry Trends & Philosophies

• Jeff and Shelley discuss the structural inertia at senior publishing jobs and persistent perceptions that publishing is inaccessible to those without connections or resources [72:29–74:17].

• On Book Buying & Diversity:

  • Jeff notes the disconnect between more diverse authors getting published and the predominantly white (or non-diverse) list of most-read books (as seen in 2025 Goodreads data).
  • Shelley shares optimism, pointing to genres (like SFF) where diversity and sales are trending positively (e.g., Octavia Butler, N.K. Jemisin) and younger readers’ growing appetite for diversity [76:07–78:17].

• US–UK Book Market Differences

  • Shelley observes format & cover design quirks, explaining, for example, the US insistence on printing “a novel” on dust jackets (“that literally never happens in the UK” [78:57]).
  • Hardcover and “large C-format paperback” culture, independent marketing, and how BookTok/Instagram viral moments are flattening international taste.

• Audio Explosion

  • Shelley identifies audiobooks as the most exciting trend, arguing the “surface has barely been scratched.” He connects audio to the potential for reaching more readers and reinvigorating longform reading [83:24–85:46].

    "For memoir, the gold standard experience for me is the audiobook written or narrated by the author... that's, for me, that's the canonical experience..." — Jeff O'Neal [84:41]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Nobel Prize Discussion: 01:03 – 10:59
• NBA & Prize Season Discussion: 11:20 – 22:24
• Library Distribution Chaos: 30:14 – 36:18
• Frontlist Foyer (Recent Reads): 37:56 – 51:14
• Interview – David Shelley (Main): 52:36 – 85:46

Memorable Quotes

• "I have a very limited knowledge of works in translation in general, much less works that have not been translated. But...there is a certain type of book that gets these awards that are not the usual books I read." — Sharifah Williams [02:48]

• "If the show Frasier was still running today, this would definitely be an episode. Frasier pretends to know who Krasno Jorge is and gets into a bind because of it." — Sharifah Williams [07:51]

• "The Kirkus Prize is one of the more lucrative for a single title in the US. 50 grand for both of them, all three of the winners." — Jeff O’Neal [20:33]

• "No strings attached. 800 grand... you're a genius." — Sharifah Williams on the MacArthur Genius Grant [22:12]

• "Consolidation like... when you have one pillar and that pillar gets wobbly or crumbles, there are no other things in the ecosystem to support it." — Jeff O'Neal [36:18]

• "I've always taken the stance... trusting librarians and educators... they're trained to curate their libraries and, you know, obviously for small kids as well. So... that's what librarians do." — David Shelley [56:25]

• "If you are an author of color... you want to feel understood, you want to feel that there is a... diverse group of people that's helping to bring your book to market." — David Shelley [69:33]

• "For younger readers...they are very unwilling to read books that aren't in some way diverse cast of characters... My hope is that the 16 to 24 year olds now will continue to read in that way." — David Shelley [77:14]

Tone & Style

• Casual, self-aware, humorous: Hosts regularly poke fun at themselves and the industry while delivering sharp analysis.
• Candid, reflective: Both the regular segment and the interview stress honesty about gaps, challenges, progress, and the messiness of publishing and reading habits.
• Encouraging, community-minded: Listeners are invited to share library/distribution experiences; achievements of diverse authors and younger readers’ openness are celebrated.

For Further Exploration

• For those wanting more details on the prize lists, Jeff and Sharifah encourage checking the full NBA and Kirkus lists online.
• The full interview with David Shelley is robust on banned books, publishing culture differences, and DEI’s future in the industry.

**Email podcast@bookriot.com with library/B&T insights, or your takes on literary short story essentials or other episode topics.