Book Riot – The Podcast

Episode: The Booker Prize Finalists, Judge Shades Trump's Lawsuit Against PRH, and More Book News
Hosts: Jeff O’Neal & Rebecca Schinsky
Date: September 29, 2025

Episode Overview

This week, Jeff and Rebecca dive into the newly announced Booker Prize shortlist, discuss the latest publishing and industry news—including a judge’s cutting takedown of Trump’s lawsuit against Penguin Random House—and reflect on trends in Romantasy sales, book-to-film adaptations, and what’s hot (and cooling off) in book culture. The episode is bookended by their trademark mix of sharp literary insight and humorous banter, making it both informative and fun for book lovers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sensing the End of Year & Zero to Well Read Updates

• The hosts reflect, somewhat ruefully, on hurtling toward year's end ("Christmas is three months from today." (01:25)), new flagship projects (notably their "Zero to Well Read" series), and the current literary zeitgeist.
• Notable tangent: Discussion about viewing Hamlet for their reading project, tying in classic literature and adaptations.

2. "One Battle After Another" Film Hype (Based on Pynchon’s Vineland)

• Both hosts discuss the unprecedented "off the charts" excitement around the new Paul Thomas Anderson film adaptation of Thomas Pynchon’s Vineland.
• The cultural moment: America is, per early reviewers, "catching up to the kind of place Pynchon predicted for decades."
• Rebecca: “The Pynchon synergy...Shadow Ticket is coming out in this weird moment where America has caught up to the kind of place that Pynchon predicted for decades it would be. So to read him in this moment is even more disorienting and trippy than it might have previously been.” (03:51)
• Discussion about the challenges and inherent impossibility of "translating" Pynchon’s wild, language-driven work to film, while praising Anderson’s likely “inspired by, not strictly adapted/translated” approach.
• Jeff: “I don't know that you can be faithful to Pynchon on film because he is a creature of language… It sounds like it's done in the same spirit and with a significant budget.” (06:30)

3. Reminders of Free Speech & The First Amendment

• Bell hooks’ birthday and the anniversary of the Bill of Rights serve as a springboard to current events: the pulling of Jimmy Kimmel’s show from certain affiliates due to presidential censorship.
• Ethical activism: Rebecca’s household streams Kimmel on YouTube as “grassroots activism”—a nod to the importance of free expression in all media.
• Rebecca: “A complaint is not a public forum for vituperation and invective and that it's not a protected platform to rage against an adversary.” (Truly, dialogue from the judge in Trump’s case later, but tone here is similar.)
• Perspective: The path from Kimmel’s Man Show days to “free speech warrior,” and how quickly culture can shift.

4. The 2025 Booker Prize Shortlist: Analysis & Favorites

• The Booker Prize shortlist announcement is the episode’s central news, with the hosts excited and candid about what they’ve read and loved.
• Shortlist titles highlighted:
  • Audition by Katie Kitamura
  • The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny by Kiran Desai (“our collective favorite work of literary fiction of the year so far, probably of the year.” (16:32))
  • Flashlight by Susan Choi
  • The Land in Winter by Andrew Miller
  • Flesh by David Sazole (“great comic book” – Rebecca (16:03))
  • The Rest of Our Lives by Ben Markovitz
• Honest admission of what they've missed and intent to catch up, with particular affection for Kitamura (“aesthetically” riding on Audition).
• Longer discussion about trends in the shortlist: commercial vs. literary, old-fashioned multi-generational sagas, and the ongoing legacy of past Booker winners (Inheritance of Loss by Desai).
• Rebecca: “A good old fashioned epic family saga that is wonderfully written—no complaints if that’s the kind of book we’re going to elevate to the Booker Prize...” (18:33)

5. Judge Shades Trump’s Lawsuit Against PRH & NYT

• The judge’s ruling is recounted with relish. Trump's suit against Penguin Random House and The NYT is dismissed for being rants "full of vituperation and invective" (20:26–21:22).
• Rebecca recounts: “A complaint is not a public forum for vituperation and invective and that it's not a protected platform to rage against an adversary. Gave the Trump camp 28 days to come back with a revised complaint that can be no more than 40 pages.”
• The hosts revel in the judge’s vocabulary, and Jeff launches a tangential but fun discussion about onomatopoeia and words that “sound like what they mean” in the English language.

6. Romantasy Sales: Are We Peaking or Plateauing? (23:00–29:30)

• Jeff proclaims “the time for Romantasy would not be what it is because nothing is forever… we are the quintessence of dust.”
• Publishing sales overall are down (1.7% YTD), with the steepest drop in adult fiction (down 5%, previously up over 11% last year).
• TikTok’s role in amplifying the Romantasy boom, and comparison to past trends (Twilight, dystopias, coloring books).
• Rebecca: “This feels like a different experience, different in degree that publishers have gone, have invested so heavily in Romantasy and in this trend... This looks like the biggest risk that I've seen publishers take on a trend.”
• Discussion on trend cycles vs. fads: will Romantasy retract like “Beanie Babies” (to zero), or stabilize like children’s/YA/romance? (29:16)
  • Noting unflagging fourth-wing coloring book sales, but with skepticism.

7. Fall Book Sales Preview & Memoirs

• The hosts note the lack of surefire blockbusters or hype-stoking celebrity memoirs this year.
• Quick discussion of Poems and Prayers by Matthew McConaughey: speculation on its audience and authorial intent.
  • Rebecca: “No one is better at the Matthew McConaughey business than Matthew McConaughey is.” (31:28)
  • Both express real curiosity about who will buy it ("If you're a Woo Woo mushroom person buying this, email us… We need to study your DNA" – Jeff (32:00))

8. Book Adaptations: "Fourth Wing" and the Big-Budget Gamble (33:58–36:32)

• Now with a showrunner (Meredith Averill), Amazon’s adaptation of Fourth Wing crawls forward—but is it too late? Both hosts skeptical of gambling big budget (couldn’t go cheap without becoming “campy”), especially with the timeline for TV showing a significant lag behind book popularity.
• “Are we going to care in 2027?” is the underlying, unanswered question.

9. "Jeff-Shenary": Etymology & New Words (36:57–39:24)

• Jeff introduces:
  • Missoniism: "Hatred, fear, or intolerance of innovation or change—a word object discussed in Pynchon’s Vineland" (37:08)
  • Brevet: “A commission giving a military officer higher nominal rank than for which pay is received… commonly British.”
• This segment is a podcast fan favorite; light, nerdy, and a warm-up for next week’s expected avalanche of Shakespearean coinages.

10. Frontlist Foyer & What We’re Reading (39:24–48:44)

• Noteworthy new books:
  • 107 Days by Kamala Harris. Rebecca: “I would be surprised if she's expecting something in this book to set her up for a future political run. But it's more like everybody else got to do their thing and CNN got to spin it...” (40:58)
  • Will There Ever Be Another You? by Patricia Lockwood: described as “a fever dream… feels as fuzzy-headed as [Lockwood] felt… hallucinatory… trippy and postmodern.” (44:37)
  • Baldwin: A Love Story by Nicholas Boggs — Jeff calls this “a landmark book,” praised for its fresh structure (exploring Baldwin through relationships), depth of research, and lasting legacy to literary history.
• Discussions include expectations for awards, why big biographies matter, and how both hosts manage their massive to-be-read lists.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Book-to-Film Adaptation:

  • Rebecca on Pynchon: “To be faithful to that story would be absolutely bananas on screen. And it wouldn’t work. It would not be a cohesive experience on film the way that it works on the page. So you have to edit and reshape to make it work for the medium.” (07:15)
  • Jeff: “I don't know that you can be faithful to Pynchon on film because he is a creature of language.” (06:30)

• On Reading Life:

  • Jeff: "You don't have to be well read. You don't have to be anything. But there are riches waiting just... they're just laying around for you, Rebecca." (13:03)

• On Literary Trends:

  • Rebecca: “Trends are impermanent and cyclical. And we did have to know that Romantasy wasn't going to last forever.” (24:23)
  • Jeff: "Some things go away forever that were super popular. Right. Sometimes Beanie Babies go to zero. It just happens.” (29:07)

• On the Booker Shortlist:

  • Rebecca: “A good old fashioned epic family saga that is wonderfully written—no complaints if that’s the kind of book that we’re going to elevate to the Booker Prize and kind of the dream that something that could hit the book club crowd is also of high literary quality.” (18:33)

• On the Industry:

  • Rebecca (on the Trump suit): “A complaint is not a public forum for vituperation and invective and that it's not a protected platform to rage against an adversary.” (20:26)
  • Jeff (on industry cycles): “We are the quintessence of dust. I guess I'm going to, we're going to return to...” (23:39)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:05] Holiday/time reflections, Zero to Well Read update
• [02:16] "One Battle After Another" (Pynchon/Paul Thomas Anderson) film adaptation discourse
• [10:56] Free speech, Kimmel, Bill of Rights
• [14:21] Book culture cross-references: Ethan Hawke, Robert Redford, Shakespeare
• [16:03] Announcing the Booker Prize shortlist
• [20:06] Judge dismisses Trump lawsuit against PRH & NYT
• [23:00] Romantasy trend/sales discussion
• [29:35] Fall book sales preview, the puzzle of Poems and Prayers
• [33:58] Fourth Wing adaptation news
• [36:57] Jeff-shenary: new/rare words
• [39:24] Frontlist picks: Kamala Harris, Patricia Lockwood, Nicholas Boggs
• [48:44] Show wrap-up, other media by Book Riot

Tone, Style & Structure

The episode maintains Book Riot’s signature mix of erudition, lively humor, and candor. Both hosts are clearly passionate, occasionally nerdy, and unafraid to celebrate the weirdness and joy of book culture. Show discussions are brisk but thorough, and plenty of space is given to both serious industry analysis and playful digressions.

Useful Links & Further Listening:

• [Zero to Well Read Podcast]
• [Book Riot Newsletter]
• [Booker Prize Shortlist]
• [Nicholas Boggs Interview on First Edition (coming soon)]

This Book Riot episode is a must-listen for bookish insiders and literary trend-trackers—offering the latest on prize season, publishing news, adaptations, and amusing asides on everything from Pynchon’s unfilmable novels to McConaughey’s poetic ambitions.