The Books of the Year

Summary

Book Riot - The Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: The Books of the Year
Host/Authors: Jeff O'Neill & Rebecca Schinsky
Release Date: December 16, 2024
Description: In this pivotal episode, Book Riot’s Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Schinsky undertake the significant task of selecting the books that have defined 2024. Delving deep into sales figures, cultural impact, and personal favorites, they craft a comprehensive list that encapsulates the literary landscape of the year.

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1. Introduction to the Year's Literary Landscape

Jeff and Rebecca kick off the episode by highlighting the absence of a definitive “Books of the Year” list from major publications like The New York Times. This void sets the stage for their mission to curate such a list, aiming to reflect both popular and critically acclaimed works that have resonated throughout 2024.

Jeff [00:48]: "Today we have a very important job. Rebecca. We are deciding the books of the year. No one else is going to do it."

2. Methodology: Crafting the List

The hosts discuss their approach to selecting the top books. They emphasize a blend of personal preferences, sales data, and cultural significance. Utilizing platforms like Goodreads for popularity metrics and considering books that have spurred conversations in media and public discourse are central to their selection process.

Rebecca [01:36]: "There's a significant amount of overlap with our best books conversations. But not all of these are books that would have come up in those conversations because things can be significant in the zeitgeist without being good or best."

3. Top 10 Books of 2024

1. James by Martyr
Considered a frontrunner, James tops their list due to its profound impact and widespread discussion.

Jeff [05:26]: "Automatically goes Jon James number one. I the top of my board, I guess."

2. All Fours
Acknowledged for its cultural resonance, particularly in sparking conversations about women’s aging and menopause.

Rebecca [06:01]: "You have to have all fours in your life. It undeniably is a book of the year."

3. The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt
A pivotal non-fiction work that delves into the effects of technology on youth, influencing both public opinion and policy.

Jeff [11:08]: "It's hard to say that sentence out loud and not say and I'm sure everything is fine because... everything's behind James in this next tier."

4. Intermezzo
Praised for its literary quality and being central to understanding the year's cultural narratives.

Rebecca [12:31]: "It's kind of a quiet point. There wasn't something different enough about it."

5. God of the Woods
An elevated thriller that intertwines rich family dynamics with contemporary societal themes.

Jeff [17:07]: "I just find it hard to distinguish between this and like something like the Claire Lombardo."

6. The Women
A bestseller that resonated widely, dominating discussions both online and in bookstores.

Rebecca [07:08]: "It's in all the airport bookstores. There's inevitably at least one person reading it at the gate at the airport."

7. House of Flame and Shadow
A standout in the literary thriller genre, noted for its intricate plotting and cultural commentary.

Jeff [38:34]: "House of Flame and Shadow, all the Colors of the Dark, Knife Martyr, the Women..."

8. Knife
A gripping narrative that blends intense plotlines with deep character development.

9. Colored Television by Danzy Senna
Celebrated for its sharp dialogue and contemporary relevance, making it a breakout hit.

Rebecca [38:56]: "It feels like a breakout. It's sharp, it's funny, it deals with contemporary issues..."

10. Creation Lake by Rachel Kushner
Selected to represent the Romantasy genre, acknowledging its commercial success and genre significance.

Jeff [24:25]: "I have to have some Romantasy title. So I put it at 10 because it is a little in the wash of the mossness."

4. Genre Trends and Cultural Impact

The episode delves into trend analysis, highlighting the rise of Romantasy—a fusion of romance and fantasy—as a dominant genre. Jeff and Rebecca discuss the importance of including such genres to reflect shifts in reader preferences and market dynamics.

Rebecca [26:09]: "I thought we needed some Romantasy somewhere on this list."

5. Challenges in Selection: Balancing Popularity and Literary Merit

The hosts grapple with balancing commercial successes with literary excellence. They debate the inclusion of high-profile yet non-traditional books, such as Taylor Swift’s exclusive scrapbook, ultimately deciding against it due to its format and reception.

Jeff [30:01]: "It's a scrapbook. If she had just sold it at the merch tables... it wouldn't be on the list."

6. Finalizing the List: Consensus and Compromises

Through spirited discussion, Jeff and Rebecca reconcile their differing opinions, ensuring that the final list is both comprehensive and representative of 2024’s diverse literary contributions. They agree on the inclusion of Colored Television as a standout Romantasy novel, fulfilling the need for genre diversity.

Rebecca [39:37]: "It's sharp, it's funny, it deals with contemporary issues... the dialogue in it is so snappy."

7. Conclusion: Reflections and Looking Ahead

Jeff and Rebecca conclude by reflecting on the dynamic nature of the literary world and the importance of such lists in shaping readers’ year-end reflections. They invite listeners to engage with the list and share feedback, acknowledging the ever-evolving landscape of books and reader interests.

Jeff [41:29]: "I'd be curious what the feedback is from people. If we overestimated something, what did we miss?"

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Notable Quotes

• Jeff O'Neill [00:48]: "Today we have a very important job. Rebecca. We are deciding the books of the year. No one else is going to do it."

• Rebecca Schinsky [06:01]: "You have to have all fours in your life. It undeniably is a book of the year."

• Jeff O'Neill [11:08]: "The Anxious Generation, may be overly determinative but the simple formulation of social apps..."

• Rebecca Schinsky [38:56]: "It feels like a breakout. It's sharp, it's funny, it deals with contemporary issues..."

• Jeff O'Neill [24:25]: "I have to have some Romantasy title. So I put it at 10 because it is a little in the wash of the mossness."

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Key Takeaways

1. Comprehensive Selection: The hosts employ a multifaceted approach, considering sales data, cultural impact, and personal insights to curate a well-rounded list.

2. Genre Representation: Emphasizing the significance of Romantasy underscores the evolving reader interests and market trends.

3. Cultural Reflection: The selected books not only achieved commercial success but also mirrored the societal conversations and issues of 2024.

4. Balancing Act: Navigating between popular bestsellers and literary masterpieces highlights the challenge of creating an inclusive and representative list.

5. Engagement with Listeners: Encouraging feedback fosters a community-driven dialogue, enhancing the relevance and accuracy of the list.

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For More Information:
Visit Bookright.com for show notes, subscribe via email at [e-mail], and support the podcast through their Patreon.

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and decisions made by Jeff and Rebecca in their endeavor to crown the Books of the Year for 2024, providing listeners and readers alike with a comprehensive overview of the episode.

Transcript

[Jeff O'Neill]

The holidays are about spending time with your loved ones and creating magical memories.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That will last a lifetime.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So whether it's family and friends you haven't seen in a while, or those who you see all the time, share holiday magic this season with an ice cold Coca Cola. Copyright 2024 the Coca Cola Company.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

This is the Book Riot podcast. I'm Jeff O'Neill.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And I'm Rebecca Schinsky.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And today we have a very important job. Rebecca. We are deciding the books of the year. No one else is going to do it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No one is. No, no. I mean, it's not like the New York Times has a list. And we just talked to Gilbert, or you talked to Gilbert. That was a great episode, by the way. It was super fun to learn about how the New York Times puts their list together. Yeah. Here at the end of the year, no one has taken on the onerous task of rounding up the books that summarize the year. So I thought we'd break some new ground.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm kind of kidding. And not that actually people aren't going to do what we do because this is. If you're trying to get a sense of the books that def the year, that's what we're trying to do. And 10 is not very many. On the other hand, I have to say, I didn't have 15. Did you?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No. Yeah. I did some off the dome. And there, you know, there's a significant amount of overlap with our best books conversations. But not all of these are books that would have come up in those conversations because things can be significant in the zeitgeist without being good or best.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And it's not a dissimilar process. Then this is more of a debriefing rear action report on the it books of the year. Theoretically, if we did our it books right, it would line up like this. Or I guess the calendar lined up.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Too, because there's some of them and. And kind of a the books you need to read if to understand what 2024 was, both in books itself and also just in culture.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I maybe did a little bit less in culture. I think that might be one place where we can have some discuss about it. I have 11 books, one honorable mention that I didn't. I wasn't sure what to do with. Maybe people already guessing what that book might be. Maybe you are guessing yourself what it might be. And we're gonna. We're gonna come up with a shared list. This is not where we each have our best books of the year list. Part of this is going to be trying to. What do they call reconciliation in con.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, sure. Budget reconciliation.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Budget reconciliation. That goes on here after this show. We're going to record the Patreon episode. Thank you so much for all our Patreon subscribers talking about the books we missed or think we probably were going to miss. Still 19 reading days left in the. In the year. And I might mop up a couple other. We had some editorial call. We're already turning our gimlet jaundiced reading eye into January because that's what we're going to continue to do. So this is not a read now or forever hold your book, but it's getting pretty close for 2020.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It is. We're getting down to the wire where, you know, the longer that I do this, and I think it's the same for you, the less likely I am to go back in any given year to books from previous years, unless they have popped up into the zeitgeist again. For some reason. We're paying so much attention to new releases and the awards. Conversation like this is just how book media works. If we were in tv, it would be the same thing. We'd be writing about all the hot new series. And then you're like, but when am I gonna go back and watch Freaks and Geeks? So there. And as Gilbert was saying in that interview that y'all did, there are just way too many books. We say it all the time. He said it. There's no way to catch. To catch them all. But I'm doing a little more mop up here at the end of the year too.

[Jeff O'Neill]

My tease is that I've got 30 on my list. Just. I don't know how many you came.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Up with your books we missed. Oh, it's a lot. I didn't count them, but it's. It's more than I came prepared with for. For today. Probably 20, 25. Much more than what I think are the book. The defining books of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Thanks so everyone for signing up for the Patreon. Now's a great time to give it a try. If you haven't, we have some more Patreon stuff always coming up already a couple times a month. At least we're doing stuff over there that really helps us and gets us.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Annual subscriptions available to the Patreon. Now you get a little discount if you buy annually. And this is a great thing that you could also ask someone to give you as a gift if you're looking for. It shakes out to being about five bucks a month. I think with the discount it's a good idea.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And if you're also looking for gifts, my TBR co tailored book recommendations. I might do a hit for that at the end of the show too. Tell you a little bit more about that. With that, let's do our first external sponsor break. Okay. Rebecca, I don't know that there's any more preamble we need to do. We've talked about that. You gave it a B on the year. I said any year that gives us James. The rest could be previously used adult coloring books. I'm still pretty happy with with the year, but, you know, that's where we are. We have ranked. I've ranked mine 10 to 1. Have you ranked yours 10 to 1?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I have not ranked mine, but I'm happy to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, we can figure that out. The first thing we have to figure out is what the 10 are and then maybe if we have time left.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I thought it was. For me it was easier to start at the top. Like James is the book of the year we can take.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That automatically goes Jon James number one. I the top of my board, I guess. What else do you have most confidence in? That's my list. This is sort of a family Feud type situation here.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I have a lot of confidence. That martyr is on your list.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That is on my list. I had that as number seven for those keeping score at home.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Undeniable debut of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yep. Okay. Where else would you like to go? You want to hit it back to me?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, let's do it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

All jokes aside, you have to have all fours in your life.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You have to.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You do. Yeah. It's on mine. It undeniably is a book of the year. Generated a lot of conversation. My personal take on it doesn't matter. This was a book of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I had it number three.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. I think that's totally fair and it does. It sits in the zeitgeist as well that, like, I don't think all fours or a book like this is a big deal or as big of a deal if there's not also like a huge shift in the way that we have a public conversation about what it is to age as a woman in this society if we didn't also have like Naomi Watts out there starting a company for perimenopausal women and like 17 different books by gynecologists and other women's health experts also talking about menopause and perimenopause this year. Like this is a thing. And someone was going to write like the big novel that got at that idea. Miranda July did it. It's. This is in the conversation. We have to put it on the list.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So in my prep, I. I looked at Notable Books of the year list. I look at our in books. I looked a whole bunch of different stuff, but I also included the Goodreads most popular books of 2024.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And that's ranked by Shelvings versus ratings. So for those of you who aren't conversant in the hyper specific platform genre of the great gr. Shelvings is basically someone like, I want to save that for later. I just want to remember that that's.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

On my get to it someday to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Do to read list sort of. And then ratings are people actually rating the book. Now that doesn't mean they've read the book, but it's our closest proxy for it. And so I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing anything. But I did have kind of a. It was going to be hard for me to pick something that was outside the top 200 in sales. Oh, one title on my list that's outside the top 200. I'm saying all this now because I thought it was interesting if people are curious about the heuristics. But All Fours was not as high as I thought in terms of the sales. It was like right next to Ministry of Time, which we talked about being as an underperformer.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is the thing in books. And reading All Fours was a big deal in a certain corner of like highbrow media consumers. All Fours was a big deal. But it is, I mean it's lit fic, it's weird. It is not mainstream accessible. I don't, I don't think that it's written in a voice that is like, it's not hard to read. But it's also not like the snappy banter of an Emily Henry or the like. This is just the way that some people talk. And it's completely unliterariness of like a Colleen Hoover. Like books that get really, really, really popular. Somebody probably will do something that's super popular and very Commercial with a char. Also dealing with menopause perimenopause stuff that'll feel, I think more like a Bridget Jones kind of situation. All fours is not that it is. It is literary and the literariness of anything makes it higher. Like the higher. There's a higher barrier to entry.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And I guess it does. And this is what the calibration we do. Like sales matter, but they're not determined. Just like tote bag acclaim is matters and it's not determined. I was expecting just be way higher up the list. I just. We already were discounting a little for sales, but I think think we're discounting way more than we would because it's like not even really close to James. And I thought it maybe would have outsold James just unit per unit, but it hasn't.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You know, this is an imperfect way to guess, but also like none of the civilians in my life have mentioned. That's all force to me.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that matters.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Or ask me about it. Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

All right. So and all that. I picked all four, so I guess it's back to you to try to find something on my board.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The Anxious Generation by Jonathan.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That was my number two.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Book of the year. Tricky to figure out this. You want to say why real quick and then I'll say why it's so high.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Maybe some of the reason that it's tricky is it came out so early in this year that there it was really present in the conversation in like January, February, March, Jonathan Haidt was all over, like all the big news and media podcasts. It got picked up and spun out into articles everywhere about what phones and the Internet are doing, especially to young people. And then I think partially because of that earliness in the year. And then we also got into the election cycle and other bigger things were taking up people's headspace. It's sort of just the conversation around it quieted down. And we've also like, because we had this election that was driven by Internet stuff and young men listening to podcasts who won't read books and all, all kinds of things, we've now really accepted, I think a lot of us, the argument that hate is making, that there is significant evidence to conclude that our phones are bad for us, that the apps are bad for us, that they've been really harmful to young people. And then since the book came out, there have been congressional hearings where, like, the folks who run Instagram admit that they know that Instagram is harmful to young people. And what are they going to do? About it. So in, in one respect this is incredibly successful. The text of this book has resulted in some forms of social change and social action and it will. This will continue to be written about. But this was also I think a topic that was ripe for a book length treatment and whoever did a good job on a book length treatment of what about the Kids Phones are Bad for Us was going to be an.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It book of the year and high profile writer already. You know there's plenty to critique in the Anxious Generation may be overly determinative but the simple formulation of social apps in particular are designed to harness, capture and monetize your attention. It's hard to say that sentence out loud and not say and I'm sure everything is fine because. Right, right. I mean it just kind of is. All right, so that's Anxious Generation. I'm going back to mine. That's my only non fiction on my list. Oh, okay. You know again I'm here to make a deal Rebecca, but I'm just telling you now, I mean you have to have Intermezzo.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, you do. It's online as well.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's number four for me. I guess I'm just gonna go down my list because it's sort of maybe represent my confidence that you'll have it in as well.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's surprising I think that I just want to talk about Intermezzo for a second. It's kind of surprising that the conversation around it didn't last very long and it quieted down pretty quickly. I don't know if that was also running into election season. It was one of the last big literary releases of the year because October was kind of quiet. November and December have been very quiet but kind of a weird duality where it was recognized as one of the best books of the year. Folks talked about it. There were midnight release parties. There was a lot of discussion like when it first came out but I'm not hearing or feeling a lot of like continued excitement around this Saturday.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that's right. I did toy with putting it down further and could be talked into it if we actually get to that point. I think it's a victim of Rooney's extant success which it was pretty good but not controversial enough to have something go on. Right. There's not an adaptation. Maybe if there was an adaptation, maybe this came out in February and there's already. And there was like a full adaptation. We got a couple of double barrel things and I also think it wasn't so amazing that non Rooney heads were being con like There wasn't something different about enough about it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's an interesting point. I noticed that I was not putting the, the new Louise Erdrich book on this list and that the and the Mighty Red and that it didn't make my personal bests of the year and that was, I think partially, at least for me, that it was a. It was a good book. Like a fine Louise Erdrich book is a great book for anybody else, but it's not sticky, it's not terribly timely. There wasn't like a lot of headline worthy stuff around it and so you got a new Louise Erdrich book and I think maybe Sally Rooney is going into that class of writers for me it will be good, we will look forward to them. But is it super newsworthy every time there's a Sally Rooney? I don't know.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And maybe it's helpful when we talk about the Percival Everett's of the world, the Zadie Smiths of the world, the Coulson Whiteheads of the world. When we talk about. You can. Your. Your envelope of expectation is super wide. Like that's a college acceptance pack, not a electric bill pack. That's why those people are so exciting to us because there's a lot of writers that have great careers but the corpus starts to feel very similar after a while and it's hard to even for the great Stephen King who had a short story collection that came out this year, had a, you know, a follow on to Cujo. It's not on a bunch of these lists. It's way down the sales and the short stories are always going to be that. But in order to sort of grow the audience, I feel like you need to mix it up. You got to do. There's a reason Madonna, Brittany and Gaga and all these people reinvent. We have the erasure because there's different eras because each of those arrows is something a little bit different. So I think that matters now. Rooney's doing great. I'm sure her pool is plenty big and. But it also can become. It's not, it's like not even pigeonholing necessarily. We know what we're going to get and for people who want that, great. But everyone else is like, well why should I buy this now when I didn't buy it before?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right. I think there are maybe three classes of literary writers and one is they find their lane and they stay in it. And I think what we're maybe seeing is that Sally Rooney is defining her lane and we're starting to understand what to expect from Sally Rooney. The other end of the spectrum is like the Whitehead Ishiguro vibe where every book is different and probably a different genre. Zadie Smith operates closer to that end of things as well where it's like what is this gonna be? And some of the like this is new from them and how will they do this new different thing is part of the conversation about it. And then you get folks who like mostly stay in their lane and occasionally do something different and that's also newsworthy whether they do it well or not because there's something to say on look at this person deviated from their usual thing and either it was great or it was a flop and what will they do now? But yeah, I think I'm seeing Rooney carve herself more into the the kind of writer who stays in her lane and that will mean that we'll look forward to Sally Rooney books but you know, probably kind of a regression to the means sort of thing that a new Sally Rooney book over time becomes less and less of a newsworthy event because we know what a Sally Rooney book is going to be.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. When we talked about the most recent Celeste Ng book we talked about was it our broken hearts, our blessed heart? I think it's our broken hearts. A significant deviation from her from these domestic class and race, upper middle class, you know, maybe up and down. Either way with some characters in there. She was starting to pick out Elaine and our. And our broken hearts deviated from it. It doesn't sound like that our missing hearts are missing hearts. I'm so sorry to. To everyone who knew that in Aunt Also Celeste. And then like someone like Gabriel Zevin too. Like Tomorrow and Tomorrow. And Tomorrow is way different than Young or Storied Life of AJ Fikkery. Not quite the issue of Guru's Own. But one more zag and maybe we have to start having a different conversation about.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that's right. Yeah. The zigs and the zags are what keep you in the headlines.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay. So Intermezzo. So it's back to you I believe at this point.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. The God of the woods, my number five.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We are in accord for really up here. I looked at this a little bit harder than maybe I thought I was going to for this reason. If this is the third, it's the second Lismore book that's real popular. Right?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Long Bright river did very well.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Aren't we into the book three or four of Rooney? Like I'm just wondering if we're two books younger, so to speak in the more experience I don't know. For these literary compelling thrillers, on the other hand, a summer page turner that is elevated is going to work no matter what. I just find it hard to distinguish between this and like, something like the Claire Lombardo, which people liked more of a piece. But sometimes something that's exceptionally good for what it is matters. And I kind of feel like that's what God of the woods is here.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. I also wavered on it because my question was really, how central is this book to understanding 2024 in the long run? Anything right. Twenty years from now, when we're podcasting about the power rankings of the books of 2024, like, are we going to care about the God of the Woods? I could really see an argument for not putting it on this list. Except that I think part like the book is very well written and that's part of it, but also part of what made it appealing. And there's stuff to chew on and talk about is this sort of like, rich people are bad of it all. Like, there is a rich family at the heart of this novel. They do sinister things or they are suspected of doing sinister things. That is certainly like the eat the rich vibe of 2024 is that is very real. It's an entitlement by Rima Lam. It's in the last one, at the Wedding by Jason Rakulik. I'm sure it's in a whole bunch of other books.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, James, not to put the fine.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Point on it in James, there's some of that in Long Island Compromise. A rich guy gets kidnapped and ransomed. That is the vibe or a vibe that we have right now. And God of the woods is a lens into that. But normally just like the big thriller of a year doesn't tell us that much about the year. I do think this did some things that a thriller doesn't normally do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that's right and I don't want to spoil it. But the Aether Rich, it's not a red herring, but it plays upon a familiar sentiment and it. It toys with it a little at the end. And I think that does add an additional wrinkle that matters and gives it more texture. And it doesn't just sort of. You don't just sort of eat it and it passes right through you. Like even pretty good thrillers can. It's like you remember kind of the vibe, but that's it. With Guy the Woods, I remember kind of the twists and turns and moments and things like that. So it held up. I could have this higher this could be two on my list. It's not entirely impossible that the Women by Kristin Hannah could have been two. It just. Yeah, look, it sold unbelievably well. Hannah seems to have avoided and built upon the same thing. We were the phenomena we're talking about Rooney. I thought we had hit P. Canada. We have not. Rebecca, apparently.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Or maybe like the folks who like Kristin Hannah, they're just in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But this is sold more than any other books. I mean, it's number two on Goodreads. And here's the other thing. Of the books on my list and all the top 100 Goodreads and I. Right. This is only a proxy. This is only a proxy. It's directionally right. Don't get accurate, not precise is what I like to say. In terms of the star ratings. Right. I always joke about it's, well. Oh, weird. You got between three and a half, four and a quarter stars. Like, that's weird. James. 4.56. Which matters.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yep.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The women, 4.61. Those are the two highest rated. And those are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of reviews. So this was different. People respond.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

People liked it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And when I talked to civilians in my life, this book came up all the time.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I heard about this one all year as well as well. And I'm still seeing it. It's in all the airport bookstores. There's inevitably at least one person reading it at the gate at the airport. No matter which airport I'm in or where I'm going. Like, we're just going to see Kristen Hannah for a while.

[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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This year, Santa's bringing the power of Energizer into his workshop. Whoa.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The Energizer Bunny's got so much power. Wait, he's powered up all the toys? I think that means we're done for the year. I love this bunny.

[Jeff O'Neill]

He's the hardest working helper the North Pole has ever seen. And he wants all your gifts to have the power of the number one, longest lasting. So this holiday season, stock up on Santa's and the elves favorite battery, Energizer Ultimate Lithium. So I will. I don't know if this is a hint context. This could. This could discombobulate you. I don't know if it's. It's actually less helpful than more.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let's do it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

8, 9, and 10. I struggled whether or not this should be these and then what order. So I don't know if that helps.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I had this.

[Jeff O'Neill]

My confidence falls off a cliff here.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The bottom of my list is tricky. And since you mentioned that the Anxious Generation was the only work of nonfiction on your list, I think this is will start to do some haggling. I had the Ina Garten memoir Be Ready when the Luck Happens, and I could see it as 8, 9, 10 or nothing. But the press around this, the conversation around it, she was everywhere.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Certainly well regarded. It sold very well and I liked it a great deal. It is a little more interesting than I had any right to be. I'll. I'll give it that. My sense of it though, that the Ina Garten experience is like 15 years past the prime. Like there's a reason she's writing this book now, not 15 years ago, because 15 years ago she was at the peak of her cultural powers. I think here she's kind of a nadir. Is that zero? But like we're well in, like she's.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

On the back nine.

[Jeff O'Neill]

She's on the back nine. The most relevant home style lifestyle cook thing that happened this year was a Martha Stewart documentary.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Documentary. Yeah. Which is.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And so kind of overshadowed by like, I don't know. I don't know that says anything about 2024. It wasn't sufficiently popular. I mean, it did. It did well.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think it was a big surprise.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think it was a surprise. I think you and I both liked it better than we thought. So maybe we're giving it upside potential. I have a hard time knocking. I guess if I look at Head to head with my other three, I have a hard time having it knock off any other three.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Maybe that's the most I can quickly talk myself out of it with the. In hindsight, I don't know what this tells you about 2024, but I had that as a contender. Okay. So let's leave this. That we are not mutually agreeing on.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not discarding it, but I'm just kind of holding it into the.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, no, I think there are good arguments against it as well. But I wanted to talk about it for a second.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm going to go then from the bottom because I feel like I have more confidence in this than the placement. Like it needs to be on the list. It may not be at 10.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But I think we need a Romantasy title.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I just had brackets on my list that say placeholder for some Romantasy.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So I talked about this with Gilbert a little bit. House of Flame and Shadow wasn't on their list. You know they don't no one championed it. It certainly would have been eligible. I'm sure someone over there has read it. It's. It's still it came out earlier in the year which I think heard it was January. January. But it's been selling the whole year. And also the Moss is more important than this book. Right. By leaps and bounds. Having said that it. It gives you a placeholder for Romantasy is still ascended it. It just is. So I have a hard time with a list of books about read books and reading in 2024 that doesn't have some kind of romantasy or commercial romance placement on it. Moss had a book people seem to like it that it seems to exist in a parallel universe to what we care about I think is not germane to this list. So I have to have it on the list and I put it at 10 because it is a little in the wash of the mossness. Probably the book of the year is still Court of Thorns and Roses or one of the Yarrows books.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But we're doing for new books here. Yeah, I can be fine with this. I think we need some Romantasy somewhere on this list. And I thought a lot about how sometimes for their person of the year Time magazine instead of doing a person of the year will do some kind of category or group of people and I could honestly be fine with just making number 10 on this romantic the sprayed edge, the Romantasy books of TikTok, the Sarah J. Maas. This one did sell well but I haven't like even in the attention, the minimal attention that we pay to the Romantasy conversations. It seems that Rebecca Yarros is still dominating that conversation and that when the third Empyrean book comes out early 2025, she's going to be the top of the leaderboard again. So it felt a little weird to me to be like, let's put this particular Sarah J. Maas on the list because it happens to be the Romantasy that came out this year by one of the big writers. But like whether it's her or we just say this is a spot that Romantasy gets because Romantasy goes on the list. I'm good with either one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, if we were doing a Trends or whatever, I'd do a Romantasy. But since it is the books list, weirdly, I'm gonna be a stickler for definitions here.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Do you wanna rediscuss what notable means while we're at it?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, I don't need to rediscuss it. I know what it means.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What I heard was that Gilbert basically agreed with me in that interview.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh sure, yeah. Lots of people can be wrong. That's very possible.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Call me Gilbert.

[Jeff O'Neill]

In our, in our, in our lives, we go unappreciated. That's how these things work.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, sure. You deeply unappreciated. That ego is really hurting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, it's really, it's really.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You're struggling.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You know white guys, we just have such trouble.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I've heard, I've heard it's really difficult.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know if you've heard about that. Okay, the last two.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is tough now. These last two.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Neither of us have read this book. We were just guested on a show where someone mentioned this book. I've seen all of the place. It's way up on the Goodreads charts. I don't know what to do with all the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whitaker.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't either.

[Jeff O'Neill]

If one of us had read it and liked it, even just liked it, I think it's more of a no brainer that it's on the list. Right. If one of us said to the other, you know what that book actually ripped.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Except like it's also just big popular thriller. Like.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And you think the God of the woods already takes its spot.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, that and like the negative case for God of the woods applies is the same as the negative case for this. That like this is a big page turning thriller. To my knowledge, all the colors of the dark doesn't have like.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think it's more of an epic. Is What I'm getting a sense of.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Even like a newsy piece that hooks into it the way God of the woods does. So like, it's just like, I. I'm sure it's fun. I'm probably going to read this over the break because of the conversation that we did have yesterday.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'll put it next to be ready when the luck happens.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Yeah. I just don't think it goes on the top 10. How about creation Lake by Rachel Kushner?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Didn't have it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I went back and forth.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So what we're doing now is I've only got one open spot left and I gave it to Knife.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Over Creation Lake. I could. I looked at all the colors of Dark vs Creation Lake. Creation Lake certainly had a. There was a moment there where it was really hot. I felt that like Creation Lake became.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It was like a surprise moment. Yeah, right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like, I haven't seen many people talk about it. I'm not sure what the sales have done recently. It had a moment and maybe one moment is all you need in a year. That's sort of a B ish. Right. If I'm gonna. I mean, if I'm gonna do Creation Lake versus All the Colors of the Dark. The case for all the Colors of the Dark is the inverse case of Rachel Kushner's a name. There's a lot going on there. Chris Whitaker's book kind of. It was an indie pick. Like, it really was a groundswell, kind of an old school one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Where this one was a top down. Brandon Taylor gave it a savage review, which I thought was unfair. Other people.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It was unfair.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Gave some attention to it. I thought it's an interesting book. Frankly, among the books here. For my own personal, like getting into it, it's up there with, you know, it's like everything's behind James in this next tier of books that were interesting.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. It didn't make my top 10 of the year, but it would have made my top 20.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It does have the eat the rich zeitgeist and like eco thriller thing going on for it. I wavered like this, you know, I had 15 and I did not know if I wanted to put Creation Lake in my top 10 for sure or not. But I thought it was worth a conversation.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, it is. So did you have Knight? Did you have.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I did have Knife.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So really we're only going to argue about one spot.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We have one more spot, but we. We can toss out several titles for it, I guess.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, well, let me do. Before we do that maybe this is where I put to the book that I don't know what to do with.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Because what do you do with errors to her book?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, I don't know. I think it kind of stands on a little deus next to these 10.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Because it doesn't even have Goodreads or it's not even on the Goodreads list, which is frankly impossible, giving that it's 118. Maybe it doesn't. May not even have an ISBN. Rebecca. Who knows?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Like, it's not being distributed anywhere. But Target, Amazon can't sell it. Nobody else can sell it. There have been complaints about the quality of the book. I think this is a piece of fandom swag of the year more than it is a book. It happens to be a book. But it is a special exclusive Taylor Swift thing. If it were Taylor Swift's memoir, we'd be having a different conversation.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's hard to ignore a million sales. It sold a million copies in hardcore.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But it's like a scrapbook. I don't. I understand. I feel the same. What do we do about it? When Taylor Swift writes a memoir and the first week sales outdo Barack Obama. That is definitely a book of the year. But a like photo album scrapbook that, like, if she had just sold it at the merch tables at the ERAs tour concerts, we wouldn't be talking about it. It's just that it got a big Black Friday situation and it made some people wring their hands about the state of publishing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm not going to make. I have a hard time mustering a lot of full throatedness for the argument. But the other argument for it would be the secondary discourse about it. What means for books and publishing and the one off and all that. Yeah, you've made a face that sort.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Of soul was making.

[Jeff O'Neill]

If they try to say that. I think you know how the Oscars, they have like the Cecil B. DeMille Award.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that's a lifetime achievement award. Like, we'll just have a special statue for you know what? Taylor Swift. You made a book and a lot of people bought it and kudos. Kudos to you. No one ever says kudos when they're like really excited for you. Kudos is like, I have to say.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Congratulations is the like backhanded compliment version of congratulations.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Kudos, really. I think it's. I think it's French for I guess I have to say congratulations.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's when you can't be bothered to text the whole word thank you and you type tks.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, there you go. So anyway, it needs to be mentioned and it'll be on the list, but like maybe it'll be a pop over or I don't know. I need to think of some way of doing that. Okay, so we want to do what else? So Creation Lake was on your list?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It was on mine, but we're not putting it on this.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, but I'm just saying. So what were a couple other. What are your near misses that maybe could someone come up in a dark horse and break the tie or.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean Hanif Abdurraqib, there's always. This year was one of my near misses. It's made all the best of. It's got a lot of critical acclaim. But that this is still a book for readers, not. He has not had a mainstream moment. Frankly, it's fine with me if he doesn't. I don't think Abdurraqib is chasing a mainstream moment. That's not the way his art works. And it's possible that he might write something in the future that does intersect enough with like mainstream pop culture that he could pop in that way. But for as much as I love him and am devoted to reading his work forever, it doesn't make my top 10 of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, what else?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This one. I do have an argument for the Message by Ta Nehisi Coates.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I looked very hard at this. I would say I have read the book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's interesting. It's slighter than I thought. It's much more of a literary prod. I mean it has political ideas and they've been well documented. The. The irony of the message is that the message of the message got drowned out by Coates early appearances and the wider discussion about what's going on in. In Gaza and the wider Middle East. At this point, I think it's actually been swallowed whole. I think it just. It just hasn't. It didn't break out. I've got a little misinterpreted and people moved on. I think the election certainly didn't help. I think the message itself is difficult for a lot of people and a lot of people are very mad about it and. But it kind of has been contained in a bit of a snow globe. For whatever reason. It sold well initially. It doesn't look like it's been a huge bestseller. I'm surprised to not be making. It's hard for me to put it there. I mean if someone had it on their 10 best, they could use. Everything I just said and said isn't that part of the story of the year? I think I could see it, but I much prefer the Creation Laker, all the Colors of the Dark, which is more of a book story.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think it's, I mean the case for it is that what has gone on in Gaza is the global story.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, it was until November.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Anyway.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And Coates is one of our premier public intellectuals. He took like, he issued sharp takes at a time when very few people were willing to do that. Precisely because this is such a complex issue that you're going to be criticized. Like no matter what you say about it, you're criticized by someone. It's just a question of which group and how loud and for how long you'll be criticized. And he like leaned all the way in. He did the media appearances. He was treated, I think in many of them very unfairly. But as a document about what, what a portion of American thinkers were considering about this, you know, centuries long conflict at this moment during a critical year, I think it's an important document. Now the fact that he started writing it before this year and it happens to come out in the middle of this year's conflicts like that makes it more complex. I think that's the case for putting it on the list. I have not read it though. I've read portions. But it also landed at a time where my brain was like, we cannot do this right now.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think the data is interesting. I think that is telling. And his interview on CBS Sunday Morning and sort of some follow up interviews became the story. He became the story.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

More than the book came the story. And if I'm making a list of the books of the year now, the media moments, the ideas, the takes of the year, that's a different conversation. I'm actually frankly not very well conversed in the take. But as a book object. Yeah, I, I can't quite get there. I can't quite get there.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. Yeah, I'm not gonna fight enough to put it on the list. So we still have one spot left.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I, I mean I got to 10, I didn't have a whole lot left that I was looking at where. I mean, I'm not going to do the Emily Henry. I'm just, it's, it's the number one on the Goodreads thing. That's millions of copies sold.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean that's really like put brackets here for. Stand in for illustrated rom com.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

The marketing category.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah that has one of its progenitors of the current crop. They have a new book that sells well, deserves to be there. You know there's there's a. There's a bunch of thrillers and Roman like you really have to start going down Elizabeth Strout. I mean didn't love that. I'm not doing the Colm Toy Bin or the Richard Osmond like everything else is. There's a books that sold but not.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Richard Powers didn't make mine and that's a big novel that wrestles with AI if ever there was a 2024 issue. What's your 10?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I well that was my 10 so my 10 House of Flame and Shadow, all the Colors of the Dark Knife Martyr, the Women, the God of the Woods, Intermetsu, All Fours, the Anxious Generation and James. I'm perfectly you're not going to get much of a fight for me to swap out Creation Lake for all the colors of the dark. You're absolutely not.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. I also had colored television by Danzy Senna as like the sleeper hit of the year. It went so much further than I expected it to. I'm delighted for that. And it like it got a read with Jenna Book Club pick. I think it's going to do well in paperback. It feels very contemporary and of the moment to me. That would have been my 10.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm almost more interested in that than Creation Lake Honestly, I. It feels like it's a late breaker. There's more to it. It's the kind of book because all the Colors of Dark I think is a four quadrant kind of an epic mystery love story hit that may add up to be in the long run a great read, but and not forever. Like, it may not have much staying power as a book that people remember. What's the name of that book? I really. What was the author's name? When people do that, you start to wonder.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it'll be like it was really long and it came out a couple years ago and something about dark. But yeah, colored television. Actually, I think I'm gonna make a more full throated argument for this. It feels like a breakout.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I wanted to argue for it. I just haven't read it, so I'm.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Kind of stuck here. She's been writing for a while. Folks who have been reading her for a while. And I regret that I'm not one like now I wish that I had been early on the danzy Senna train have been waiting for a breakout moment for her. And like, it's just. It rings all the bells. It's sharp, it's funny, it deals with contemporary issues, it deals with race in a way that is very pointed but also really fun to read. You don't. You're never going to feel like you're getting preached at. And that's one of the things about fiction that helps people find their way into thinking more expansively about tricky issues. Is like a character did this and they did it in a way that was. That was funny and pointed and guided me kind of into a broader way of thinking about something. The dialogue in it is so snappy. I think this is the best dialogue I read all year. And it makes me like she's maybe at the top of my list coming out of 20, 24 of people whose next books. I cannot wait to see what they're going to do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm sold. Rebecca.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Great.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm putting that in a nine.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. Oh, I have that at 10. Are we keeping different notes?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, okay. No, I'm just putting in my, like I swapped out in my list all the colors of the dark. So.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So I think that I gives us our. I have our shared 10 then, because I agreed with you. So one is James Martyr, All Fours, the Anxious Generation, Intermezzo, God of the woods, the Women, House of Flame and Shadow, Knife and Colored Television.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, I lost track here. Okay, so you have Martyr at four or two.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, I didn't rank them oh, oh, okay. I was just agreeing with you. So list of 10 that I think we've agreed on as the books of the year.

[Jeff O'Neill]

All right, well, maybe, maybe we don't need to rank them together. We don't have a shared ranking. Doesn't matter as much because then you're really combing with a fine tooth. Well, that was both. That was actually a lot easier than I thought.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'd be curious what the feedback is from people. If we overestimated something, what did we miss? What did we miss? We underestimated something that could have been enormous. Or I think the one that I have the most time to hear. But I, I think it's funny story in the message. If someone's like, you know what, the court of rightness has decided that those were bad calls, I'd be like, yeah, okay, I kind of see it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think the bar for arguing that funny story was a bad call here is a lot higher than for the message because we're just, we're talking about like the sixth Emily Henry novel. We know what an Emily Henry novel is. Is.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's wild that the 6:1 is selling millions of copies though. Like I, I don't know enough about deep history of this to know like the six. But like still, I mean, Nora Roberts.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Did this for decades.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like the best selling book of the. I mean, maybe in the. Maybe in the prime. I guess that's what I'm saying. I wasn't around keeping track of book sales when those folks were.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. If you go back and look at like the, the best selling books of the mid-90s, especially like when we've been prepping for some of our power rankings. Nora Roberts all over the top of those lists.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I just don't remember it being one all the time. But that could just be that I misremembered. So. All right, that's a list. Bookright.com. listen for the show notes. Choose an email podcast book riot dot com. Check out the Patreon mytbr Co say you wanted. You know what? I've heard about all these books, Rebecca, because we've been talking about them all year.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, give me some under the radar.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Give me some under the. Some build to suit you fill out or your gifty fills out. A reading profile. Talking about the kind of books and what their reading takes. As our team of expert bibliologists will then make recommendations. These are hand typed, I guess, not hand. I don't know what we're gonna say anymore. Type by hand with our meat fingers. Of why that book was chosen for you or your giftee. And if you've got the recommendation only level, that's great. You can go get them wherever you want or decide to pass or whatever. Or if you're doing one of our physical media plans, you can get a paperback or a hardcover shipped to you or you're a giftee. Sort of $15 up. There's price points all along the way. Also, a wonderful last minute gift. Something didn't show up, you didn't like it. Change your mind? A lot you could do there. Mytbr.co Rebecca, I'll talk to you in five minutes, but they won't hear us talk.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Have a good one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That.