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Book Riot - The Podcast
The Hot List: April 2026
00:40:14
Jeff and Rebecca talk about the books that have the heat this month.
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- [00:00]
Rebecca Schinsky
This episode is brought to you by Merit Beauty. My beauty routine has always been extremely minimal. We're talking like tinted moisturizer if I'm feeling really ambitious, but most days I don't wear makeup at all. That has worked fine for me until we started doing video podcasts and suddenly my face is everywhere. And I know you'll be shocked to hear that I care about that a little bit more than I used to. I wanted to step it up without adding a lot of time because if a routine takes more than five minutes, it is genuinely not going to happen for me. And Merit Beauty was the answ. All of their products are designed to be fast, easy, and they're really good. I use three the minimalist stick, which pulls double duty as foundation and concealer so I'm not layering a bunch of products on my face. The flush balm for a little color that looks like it came from being healthy rather than wearing blush, and the signature lip blush, which is just enough. The whole thing takes me minutes and I actually look camera ready, which was the whole point. Everything Merit makes is clean, vegan and cruelty free with skincare ingredients that are actually good for your skin. Right now, Merit Beauty is offering listeners a free signature makeup bag with your first order at meritbeauty.com that's M E R I T beauty.com for a free signature bag with your first order. Merit beauty.com Focus features in Blumhouse present
- [01:17]
Sponsor Announcer
Obsession When I have a crush on a guy no one knows, Be careful.
- [01:22]
Jeff O'Neill
I wish Nikki loved me more than anyone in the entire world. Who you wish for obsession is 96 fresh on rotten tomatoes.
- [01:30]
Rebecca Schinsky
I love you so so so so much.
- [01:33]
Jeff O'Neill
It's blood soaked nightmare Brooke Hugger's bullet put on her. You have been warned. Obsession. Rated R under 17. Animated without parent. Only in theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby. This is the Book Riot Podcast. I'm Jeff o'. Neill.
- [01:51]
Rebecca Schinsky
And I'm Rebecca Schinsky.
- [01:53]
Jeff O'Neill
And we come back for the Hot List. Again, Rebecca, we're checking on the books that are making waves, they're making moves, they're throwing off heat. All kinds of meteorological analogies we could use for what these books are doing.
- [02:05]
Rebecca Schinsky
We're talking about books that have won awards, books that are pre order hits, current bestsellers, book club picks, adaptations, anything that might be trending on Booktok backlist. Books that get a relevance bump. Like there's no one kind of book that can be the Hot List. The Hot List is a you know it when you see it. Yep, Zeitgeist situation.
- [02:25]
Jeff O'Neill
So we have some carryover, some new things and then some are vibes, some are sales, some are actual numbers that are associated with the particular list. I mean, we haven't really. We're working out what the hot list formats going to be as it becomes a main feature of the regular feed on an ongoing basis. Do we need to crown the hot book of the month? We have the IT book of the month, but should we consider that? I mean, we don't decide this now, but I'd like to enter that into the record as a possible thing. Like what is the hot book of the moment?
- [02:56]
Rebecca Schinsky
Let's revisit that when we get through this list and see after we've talked about them, if there's anything that feels like it, it's hotter than the rest of them.
- [03:05]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. A contender certainly would be the Correspondent by Virginia Evans, which we talked about on the BR pod winning the James Patterson and Bookshop Prize. That is not the thing. That is not. That is a symptom rather than the cause of it being on this list. Like that is a second order effect of this book is being adapted. We've talked about that already. It's on the March list. Number three, New York Times hardcover fiction. It is just the book that's being talked about. I am presupposing that going into Mother's Day, it's gonna sell a ton more. There's gonna be around pools on planes, summer travel. This one's gonna be with us for a while. Rebecca. I think we're safely in that zone.
- [03:42]
Rebecca Schinsky
I think so too. Especially because of not just this James Patterson and bookshop.org prize, but it also won the Indy's Choice Book Award for best adult fiction from 2025 that was just awarded last week as you're hearing the show. And so lots of love for Virginia Evans from independent booksellers who were responsible for the book becoming a hit in the first place. And they're gonna continue driving that conversation. I think we're gonna see indies continue to hand sell this. And now it broke containment. So now everybody is just talking about the Correspondent. I imagine we have a few more months of the Correspondent at least being getting a nod at the top of the show for being carried over. It's gonna stay hot for a while. That also goes for Project Hail Mary by Andy. We're continuing really well at the box office. It is still number one in paperback fiction on the New York Times list, number one on the New York Times combined ebook and print fiction, and number two on pw that's Publisher Week, Publishers Weekly on their overall bestsellers. It's uncommon for a six year old novel in paperback to get this popular again even when an adaptation comes out. And Project Hail Mary has been back on bestseller lists really for the last year since the trailers started coming out for Project Hail Mary. So I think we have another month or two of this one as well.
- [05:05]
Jeff O'Neill
And I think we have a shadow current here that we may be sailing on which is God knows what the audiobook is doing right now because it's an unbelievable audiobook. People are picking it up. You've been talking about it. I've been talking about it for a long time. They've had the narrator, what's his name? Ray something.
- [05:21]
Rebecca Schinsky
Ray Porter.
- [05:22]
Jeff O'Neill
I keep wanna say Ray Parker but that's who made the ghost part, the Ghostbusters theme song. Ray Parker Jr. So I'm gonna get namespace poll and here's another thing. So I think while this is in the theaters we're probably gonna keep it here just de facto it'll come out on home video, it'll have another surge and then I think this will probably nominated for a lot of Oscars, not the least of which will be best adapted screenplay. I think they did a hell of a job with the adaptation of the screen.
- [05:46]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, I think we'll see it again in Oscar season. So Project Hail Mary may be on this list for the rest of the year and into next January, February, who knows.
- [05:53]
Jeff O'Neill
We're gonna get through one more thing to hit you with another question. But few of golden is doubling the sales of the Correspondent by Virginia Evans right now. Like it's. I think this is weirdly getting less play than the Correspondent because it's been out for a couple of years. And you know the author Alan Levy, I haven't seen much from him. Like he's an older gentleman. I think this is his debut novel. He's not out doing a lot of read this. Not doing a lot of. Doesn't need it apparently Rebecca because this is just going nuts. So I'm assuming that I haven't seen. I'm assuming they're going to get some. It's an 86 year old protagonist which leaves us some interesting casting choices for. So a late career Oscar is on the table for whoever.
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Rebecca Schinsky
Is this a Harrison Ford vibe?
- [06:35]
Jeff O'Neill
Maybe that would be on. It would be if. If he doesn't already we're going to cut that and send it to his agent, ask for a finder's fee. He'd be. I've Just read a little bit about this, but there's a little bit of generosity. Small town. I don't know that he is like Harrison Ford is like the walking embodiment of grumpy sunshine, like all the way back to Han Solo and Indiana Jones. My sense this character, and I'm going to read this eventually, is it's not that it's not a man, you know, a man called Otto, like that, that particular one's a compassionate protagonist. So maybe. But like, it's hard. I think it would be hard for Harrison Ford to play the Jason Siegel role in Shrinking, which I feel like a little bit much with this character.
- [07:17]
Rebecca Schinsky
Okay, so old Jason Siegel is what we're going for. And it's 44,000 copies a week right now. So this one is also carried over from last month's Hot List.
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Jeff O'Neill
Yes.
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Rebecca Schinsky
We're probably nodding to Theo of Golden along the way for several more months here.
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Jeff O'Neill
An older American actor who could play Compassion like that. I have to think about that. I haven't. I haven't prepped. I'm not ready. My brain is firing and it's, it's.
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Rebecca Schinsky
I cannot send us your dream casting of Theo. Theo of golden, if you've read it.
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Jeff O'Neill
Podcastookriot.com so these are the three big sellers, and I ask you this. The next level for one of these books to get to, and I guess all of them could get to, is a Crawdad Sing, where basically everyone. Where all the kindling that's available to burn could burn. And that's where anyone who is at all interested in reading a book, maybe they're in a book club, maybe they want to be. They read one book a year, two books a year, and they'll pick up something. Does any one of those have the capacity to hit that? Now, for people who don't know, we're talking multiple years, millions and millions of sales. Rebecca?
- [08:20]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, the. The path of the Correspondent right now looks more similar to the Path of Crawdads. I was actually thinking about this last night because where the crawdads scene, it came out near the end of the year that it was published in, and the following year, like mid year, it got a bump and then got a book club selection and then sort of took off, but it was still in hardcover when it took off, and that that helps with having real momentum. And when you're in hardcover, like where the crawdads thing was never going to be an award consideration, but Virginia Evans clearly is and has already won some stuff with the Correspondent Theo of Golden. It's already in paperback, but that might be really working in its favor because more people are picking up paperbacks. That tends to be a great boon for book clubs. Either one, I mean, really could be. To my knowledge, there's not like a, a sharp pop culture, like pithy way to, to describe either of these. It's more of like they both seem to me to be like pleasant vibes that people enjoy hanging out in. And what made Crawdad work so well at the time was like, you know, we were early in the MeToo movement and where the Crawdad Sing had like real female revenge energy and a mystery driving.
- [09:39]
Jeff O'Neill
Well, it's a mystery. I mean, just a poor plot, right? I think just more plot.
- [09:42]
Rebecca Schinsky
And not that a book needs to be similar in its genre or structure to Crawdad's to do well, but I think either of those could chart a Crawdad's path. Right now I think my money would be on the Correspondent because with the award wins, it's going to have more hand selling and like a little more bookstore draw. But Theo of Golden doing well on its own without any of that stuff.
- [10:06]
Jeff O'Neill
I almost think that the Theof golden doubling the Correspondent cells with the profile it doesn't have is actually maybe more indicative because maybe the right comp for these is not a murder mystery with a young protagonist. These are older protagonists, you know, and what that means, the compassion, nostalgia, the end of life. Maybe we need to be thinking more Tuesdays with Maury than we need to be thinking where the Crawdads Sing. And that's probably sold more.
- [10:35]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, that's occurring like year, years and years long. Tuesdays with Maury was still big like a decade after it came out. Yeah, yeah, interesting stuff.
- [10:44]
Jeff O'Neill
It'd be interesting to see there. So I'm gonna get to Theo golden this summer, but.
- [10:48]
Rebecca Schinsky
All right, that seems like a good summer read. From our carryovers from last month into new brand new books that were just announced.
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Jeff O'Neill
Not even out yet. Not even out last month.
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Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, this is our pre order corner Hollywood Ending by John Green, gonna be John Green's adult fiction debut. It's coming out in September. It's a behind the scenes love story about two young actors who meet filming an Andy Warhol biopic. It's been on Barnes and Noble's most viewed books of the week. We haven't seen any pre order sales data because that's just usually not publicly available. Unless like with the Acotar books last month it somehow slips onto a bestseller list. But I think, safe to say with John Green's profile, the affection that readers have for him. He's out doing interviews right now, like where he's just kind of casually talking about this. But John Green is in the media and this will be a big book of the fall. So we may not be talking about it here on the hot list again until September, but it's been a big one since last month's hot list.
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Jeff O'Neill
On a scale of 1 to 10, how cravenly is this? Looking for an adaptation right away called Hollywood Ending, starring actors. They're filming a biopic with one of the iconic act, you know, figures of Andy Warhol, John Green.
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Rebecca Schinsky
He's made movies, so yeah, he doesn't have to go fishing to get an adaptation. He's probably just going to get adapted anyway. We'll see, right? See how it goes.
- [12:11]
Sponsor Announcer
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- [14:45]
Rebecca Schinsky
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- [16:05]
Jeff O'Neill
this one we talked with Mary from Books A Million about this, but I had heard about this before. Dagger mouth by H.M. wolf, which the ebook is already out there and catching fire. Like there's like 60,000 Goodreads reviews and there's a print edition coming out from SNS in July. Apparently it's a duology and I think it's like my understanding is it's a dystopian romance. Enemies to Lovers. Dystopian romance. So Conform meets V for Vendetta. I don't know Conform But I do know V for Vendetta. This is from the the publisher. Synopsis. 544 pages. It's getting the full spread. Emboss, whatever. Now, going dystopian romance is an interesting move for the tick tock romance genre plus generation, because underrated in the heart of the Hunger Games phenomena was love triangle stuff.
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Rebecca Schinsky
Yep.
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Jeff O'Neill
So I'm putting that out there. I don't have a print run for this. Simon and Schuster does.
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Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, I haven't seen that either, but
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Jeff O'Neill
I've seen this in a couple places and I'm very curious, so I put. I put that on our pre order.
- [17:15]
Rebecca Schinsky
Also mid summer. A good moment to drop a book like that. Like, we'll see if July's hot list brings us back to Daggermouth with bestseller numbers.
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Jeff O'Neill
Yeah, that'd be interesting. And then Abby aj. I call her AJ Because I'm so familiar with all of her work. I know it back to front. No, that's me, that's Michelle, who pre ordered this and. And is ready to go.
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Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. This is a Friends to Lovers romance, the Night We Met by Abby Jimenez about a woman who chose the wrong guy to drive her home from a concert years ago. Kind of a sliding doors moment for her.
- [17:48]
Jeff O'Neill
Okay.
- [17:49]
Rebecca Schinsky
And then she has this platonic friend, Chris. They're great friends, and he is waiting on the sidelines, trying to choose his moment to make a move. And also kind of watching what's happening in the relationship that she has with the guy that did drive her home. But Friends to Lovers, like, it's a romance. We know how it's gonna end. But Abby Jimenez, I think, is ascending to a place similar to what Emily Henry holds with contemporary romance readers. This is number one in New York Times hardcover fiction right now, number one in Publishers Weekly overall and hardcover fiction lists. It's the fourth most popular book published this year on Goodreads, like, just huge. And among the 10 most viewed books on Barnes and Noble this week. A great showing in her release week for Abby Jimenez.
- [18:34]
Jeff O'Neill
Do you know, does Emily Henry have a book coming out this summer?
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Rebecca Schinsky
I don't believe so.
- [18:38]
Jeff O'Neill
I haven't seen it. She taking the summer off?
- [18:41]
Rebecca Schinsky
I mean, I have not seen an Emily Henry announcement.
- [18:44]
Jeff O'Neill
I feel like the last couple years it's been like the swallows to Capistrano. There's the Abby Jimenez and Emily Henry summer books coming out.
- [18:50]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [18:51]
Jeff O'Neill
So that's interesting.
- [18:51]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. I don't believe there is an Emily Henry one. I haven't seen anything about that.
- [18:55]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. The next one everyone's talking about segment Presented by Random House and everyone is talking about half his age. Jeanette Bacurdy. We talked about this. A lot of preview shows. We were super. We covered the news when it came out. And you went so far, Rebecca, as to read the dang thing.
- [19:09]
Rebecca Schinsky
I did, man.
- [19:10]
Jeff O'Neill
And it's which is fiction. And you liked it.
- [19:13]
Rebecca Schinsky
I did. It's about a 17 year old girl named Waldo who has a relationship with her creative writing teacher at high school. All of the triggers and cringes and all of the things that you think are gonna be present there are present, but it's really also, it's sharp and really insightful. Waldo is really angry. She has a lot of agency. She has like just that sort of bottomless hunger for life and connection and experience teenagers have. And we get to see Waldo's relationship with her mom, which as a typical teenager she is trying to reject all of her mother's ways of being in the world. She sees her mom sort of bending over backwards to please the men in her life. Her mom's moods are really dependent on how things are going with her current boyfriend. And Waldo hates all of that, but doesn't realize that she's replicating it. Like the reader as the reader, you see that that's happening. And part of the joy of this this book is getting to follow Waldo on this journey from. She's the one who initiates this relationship with her teacher and he should absolutely not have gone along with it, but he does. And it doesn't turn out to be the fantasy that she has imagined.
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Jeff O'Neill
No. You don't say.
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Rebecca Schinsky
I know. Like the book opens with Waldo having a disappointing sexual experience with a fellow teenage boy and or with a fellow teenager. And then she thinks that it's going to be so much better when she's with this adult man that she idolizes. And maybe there are some parts or some moments that are better, but there's a lot that is still disappointing to Waldo and her real like her arc over the course of the story. I found to be this felt fresh to me. I'm in now for Jennette McCurdy. I really liked I'm Glad my mom Died. But I wanted to see what she could do with fiction. And this felt like a big arrival. It. I don't know if she's going to continue writing fiction, but I was really happy to see this. We talked about it last month. So just organically. So this is its second month on the hot list. It was one of the most anticipated books of the year. And it's Currently number three on Goodreads for the most popular books published this year. Nearly a hundred thousand Goodreads ratings already.
- [21:21]
Jeff O'Neill
What's the star count on that? Did you look? I have. I didn't.
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Rebecca Schinsky
It's over four.
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Jeff O'Neill
That's good.
- [21:25]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. I don't have the tab open, but it's. It's doing well.
- [21:28]
Jeff O'Neill
It's hard to underestimate the number of copies that I'm Glad My Mom Died sold. And one of our great questions was how many were gonna follow McCurdy not just to the next book, but to a book that is not, you know, maybe the easiest. Easiest subject matter in the world. Sounds like so far people are checking it out and they're digging it. Yeah.
- [21:46]
Rebecca Schinsky
It's provocative. I think this was a bold move and there were readers who just dismissed this out of hand because of what it's about. I certainly understand that it's not an easy one to read, but I really. I think if you have any curiosity about this, I would encourage you to try it. It's wonderful.
- [22:02]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. I think you trigger warnings, right?
- [22:05]
Rebecca Schinsky
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- [22:06]
Jeff O'Neill
You're gonna need all. But so did. I'm glad my mom died in a lot of ways. Like maybe not as the same kind of trigger warning.
- [22:11]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [22:11]
Jeff O'Neill
But this is not easy. This is not Tuesdays with me.
- [22:13]
Rebecca Schinsky
And I'll just say it's not the book you think you're gonna get when we hear the, like, teenage girl has a relationship with her English teacher. And in some ways, I found that to be really exciting. I think there are readers that want to levy more judgment against Waldo and the teacher than wa. And so if you're looking for, like, a really hard moral line to be drawn, that's not what McCurdy is interested in doing. And the fact that she's not interested in doing that makes her more interesting to me.
- [22:41]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. I mean, even with the title of I'm Glad My Mom Died, it's less judgmental as your mother than you think it is when you get into it. And even the course of the writing becomes more complicated that. Anyway, thanks to Random House for sponsoring this. Everyone's talking about segment we've covered. Covered. Is it strong for these James Patterson team ups?
- [22:59]
Rebecca Schinsky
Oh, yeah.
- [23:00]
Jeff O'Neill
But I feel like this Viola Davis one is doing something different than the other ones have done. Like Viola Davis is out there more. It seems like it's selling quite well.
- [23:07]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [23:08]
Jeff O'Neill
Does it? Am I wrong that this is behaving differently than these other ones?
- [23:12]
Rebecca Schinsky
It's called Judge Stone. It's about a Judge Named Mary Stone, who's presiding over the most controversial case in the South. It deals with race in some ways. I've heard Viola, Viola Davis was on Amy Poehler's podcast to promote race.
- [23:25]
Jeff O'Neill
Was she indeed.
- [23:27]
Rebecca Schinsky
And talked about it a little bit and she seems to have really been involved with it. It is doing more than other James Patterson team ups have done. This is number two in hardcover fiction on the New York Times and Publishers Weekly this week. Also on that Barnes and Noble most viewed list of the week. And just Viola Davis, like Viola Davis doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to do and that she's out doing press for this. Like, like she very easily could have just like said, let's do a fun book project. I'll sign on and then we'll see what happens. But she seems genuinely excited and invested in it. Reviews are like more interesting and positive than I tend to see for typical James Patterson books. So something to be said there. But I was just, I'm just interested in the whole thing around it.
- [24:16]
Jeff O'Neill
So in my, in my. Whenever I get the, the genie lamp that only answers wishes about publishing information. So it's a very specific genie, very small lamp.
- [24:28]
Rebecca Schinsky
So we start there with how many of the books that get bought actually get read. That's our first one.
- [24:32]
Jeff O'Neill
Well, maybe this is a Patreon episode. We need to do the business arrangement amongst James Patterson and his celebrity co writers. Who is writing what, what do they agree to do? Publicity. What cut do they get? Do they get future rights to sequels? Like, like how does one broker a deal like this? How does it happen?
- [24:51]
Rebecca Schinsky
Occurring to me and I am embarrassed that it is just occurring to me, but I wonder if this is also going to be a Viola Davis film vehicle. Is she going to play the.
- [24:59]
Jeff O'Neill
I wonder about all of these. Yeah, right. Like the Reese Witherspoon one with what's his name, Harlan Cohen. That was another one. I mean, I'm guessing, like Louise Penny. Didn't she do one with Hillary Clinton? I don't think she'll be starring in that Hillary Clinton. I'm not sure that her acting days are still ahead of her.
- [25:14]
Rebecca Schinsky
But she did one with Louise.
- [25:16]
Jeff O'Neill
Yes, I know, I know, I'm kidding at this point. But that would be interesting to see how this is all going to play out at the same time. Are we ready for some mess? We don't often get a messy. But that certainly elevates it into the hot books of the month to have some mess behind. Yeah.
- [25:32]
Rebecca Schinsky
A moment for the discourse.
- [25:35]
Jeff O'Neill
I was Trying to summarize this. Rebecca and I stopped because I didn't want to, but we have to do it. So what do we. How shall we summarize the discourse?
- [25:43]
Rebecca Schinsky
All right, well, we're talking about Adult Braces by Lindy west, which is her new collection of essays. Lindy West, a great sort of one of the leading millennial feminist writers on the Internet for early, like early 2000s Internet writing, continues to be out there doing cultural commentary. But this has caught the buzz, and Vanessa and Erica talked about it here on the show a couple weeks ago, because west reveals in the collection that from the beginning of her marriage, her husband indicated that he did not want to be monogamous. She was not interested in non monogamy, and it turned out that he was cheating on her like he was doing unethical non monogamy. And now they have worked it out, and his husband, her husband's other partner, now lives with them and they have a poly relationship. And west writes in the book about that whole. The whole discovery of it, the process of trying to work stuff out in their marriage, and then lands in a place where she's like, you don't have to believe me now, but I am happy. This is the life that I want. And just from all of the words that I've said in the last minute, you can imagine all of the comments the Internet might have about the choices that she has made, the choice that her husband made, and how she responded to that. It's like tongues are wagging with adult braces. So there's just lots and lots of talk. But it doesn't seem that the buzz is actually translating to sales. New York magazine has this wonderful newsletter called Book Gossip, and they dug into the bookscan and found that there was only about 1800 copies sold in the first week. You need somewhere between 5 and 10,000 in the first week, typically to get onto the New York Times bestseller list. And at the time of that writing a week or so ago, only about 3,000 total had been sold. So there's a lot more conversation about Lindy west than there is actual engagement with what she's written, which tends to also to be how discourse functions.
- [27:46]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. And on Goodreads, only less than 2, 000 ratings at this point. 3.77 stars. It's a real old Internet thing. Sachi Cool, who I have interviewed for yes Edition, did a profile of Liddy west that I think was. I think it was good. I think if you're the subject of that, I think you maybe are not Thrilled to see her portrayed that way, but it doesn't seem unfair. And then Lindy West's husband wrote a really nasty email that you be made messier by making public. And it's all just spiraling.
- [28:16]
Rebecca Schinsky
It's a whole thing.
- [28:18]
Jeff O'Neill
And my theory of the case is one or both of the following. One is people actually don't care that much, which is maybe their base case for all these two is now you feel like you got this story without having had to read the book. If you just read this about the mess.
- [28:30]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, this is just the perfect kind of interpersonal mess where, like, whatever your perspective, there's something that you can level judgment about it at online. It makes for an easy tweet. It makes for an easy hot take. But, yeah, I think. I mean, this is a long essay collection that has a lot of stories about Lindy West's life, and this is the only one that's getting any real attention. A tough hang for Lindy west right now on the Internet.
- [28:57]
Jeff O'Neill
This is not the kind of mess I personally enjoy. I don't enjoy many messes, but this is down towards the bottom of my enjoyment ladder.
- [29:03]
Rebecca Schinsky
This is, like, pretty close to my response to the news about Dan Brown several years ago when he was having an affair. Like, this just falls in my. People do things, but it's not my business. This, like, her husband cheated on her, and they had a conversation about it. She wrote about it. And I. I. People do things. I don't care.
- [29:23]
Jeff O'Neill
Speaking of messiness, this one is selling and is getting all kinds of profile. And I think one of the reasons that this is a memoir of a marriage falling apart, told from the really, the highest reaches of privilege. Right.
- [29:38]
Rebecca Schinsky
Stranger by Bell Burden, Strange by.
- [29:40]
Jeff O'Neill
Sorry, I didn't even say the name. Gwyneth Paltrow, who herself knows a thing or two about privilege, knows her around a privilege situation.
- [29:47]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. This novel could have been titled Conscious Uncoupling.
- [29:51]
Jeff O'Neill
It's not a novel. It's a memoir.
- [29:52]
Rebecca Schinsky
Memoir. Memoir.
- [29:53]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah.
- [29:53]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:54]
Jeff O'Neill
I haven't. I have felt zero interest in this, Rebecca, because you and I have talked about. You and I know our way around a divorce memoir. We like a relationship book. We're sympathetic to, interested in, and, you know, otherwise amenable to stories of all kinds of. But we read enough of these that we needed to be something different or have some hook or exceptional writing or new insights like Kind after Leslie Jamison, I'm like, what are you. Can you do for me? And I'm not feeling like I'm gonna Get that from Bell Burden. But I might be wrong. What is your sense of this?
- [30:27]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, that's my sense too. Enough people whose opinions I tend to respect and often agree with have liked this that I've found myself looking at might be something that I pick up over the summer, but like we are, I think in the minority here. It's number three in the New York Times hardcover nonfict fiction list. It's number seven on the PW list this week and it's been out for a little while now, but continuing to be read. People are continuing to talk about it. I don't know if it has award contention potential, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised. We'll see. We'll see where we go with Strangers by Bill Burden, but we'll definitely be hearing about it again another couple years when Gwyneth comes out.
- [31:09]
Jeff O'Neill
I was reading the review in the Times and I remember one thing that I did find interesting is apparently her partner asked for the divorce and it's, I don't know that it's out of the blue, but it's decisive and he says he wants nothing, not even the custody of the kids. He just wants out of the whole thing.
- [31:25]
Rebecca Schinsky
Wow.
- [31:25]
Jeff O'Neill
And I don't know, I, I, that's not what I hear very sometimes people disappear or they otherwise do it, but like a very clean break of the whole life and they're not fighting. Like that's unusual. I don't, I don't know but I can imagine if you know, you yourself have gone through a divorce or you know someone who has, maybe this is what you're interested in. But I feel like I've, I've got it at this point with what is on the tin for this.
- [31:52]
Rebecca Schinsky
I mean sadly for us, Leslie Jameson's divorce memoir did not become a giant sensation. So most people are not in the where do you go after Leslie Jameson
- [32:02]
Jeff O'Neill
Cancer Splinter's the best Covid book and the best divorce book and the best parenting book maybe all at the same time.
- [32:09]
Rebecca Schinsky
She's so good.
- [32:10]
Jeff O'Neill
The subject of a multiple profiles a read with Jenna Pick. I have purchased this though I have not read it yet. It's Upward Bound by Woody Brown. I put in the chat it's or in our in our ti today. I think I put it in there. I sent it Michelle saying make sure you're sitting down. You've got tissues with you. The story is quite unbelievable. Woody Brown's autistic and non verbal and my understanding is that until he was several years old, maybe 6, 7, 8 9. They didn't think he understood language, but at some point his mom realized that he did and that he could associate words with other things. And not only that, that if they used a letterboard, could point to letters and words and pictures and actually could write. He loves stories. Got an MFA at Columbia and this is the debut. And I have no idea what it's about. I cannot get that far without choking up. I don't know how much Xanax I have in the house, but I'd need to take it all in multiple forms. Maybe a powder, make it a liquid, maybe sort of an edible of Xanax edibles. Rebecca, did you invent that?
- [33:18]
Rebecca Schinsky
Is this. Are you finally going to get on the edibles train? But it's going to be because of an emotional.
- [33:22]
Jeff O'Neill
This is all metaphor. Were.
- [33:25]
Rebecca Schinsky
I'm sure that someone has experimented with Xanax edibles in their basement.
- [33:29]
Jeff O'Neill
It must just taste. So don't do that at home, right? Yeah, don't do that at home. Anyway, it's been all over the place. Rebecca. An incredible story, a real story. Yeah.
- [33:37]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. And like truly a high profile, fascinating story. Do not read the comments on the New York Times profile of Woody Brown.
- [33:47]
Jeff O'Neill
Oh, what? Oh, I don't want to.
- [33:48]
Rebecca Schinsky
I mean, it's just a bunch of jerks being like, yeah, but is it real?
- [33:52]
Jeff O'Neill
Is it real? They think this is put on to get a mid list novel.
- [33:55]
Rebecca Schinsky
Did he really do this? If he, if he can do this, could he really use a letter board with his mom? Like, it's just, you know, it's the Internet doing Internet things, you know?
- [34:04]
Jeff O'Neill
You know what? Even if I can understand some of the plausibility of something, I'm gonna choose to believe. I'm gonna choose to believe. Rebecca.
- [34:14]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, I. And like, I do not go into the comments of New York Times pieces or anywhere on the Internet willingly. But somebody, a substack that I get was like trying, I think, to draw parallels between Brown using this letterboard to communicate and his mother helping him write and like trying to connect it to like people using AI to help them write. And everything just falls apart from there. So let's give Woody, you know what
- [34:40]
Jeff O'Neill
we're not gonna do? We're not gonna do that. I would agree with that.
- [34:43]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [34:43]
Jeff O'Neill
I continually am surprised by how many people leave comments on New York Times articles. Didn't. Didn't we? Have we learned nothing, Rebecca? Have we Lear?
- [34:49]
Rebecca Schinsky
Apparently not. Like, I don't know. I don't know why we're commenting on anything in 2026. What I do want to comment on is London Falling by Patrick Rattan Keefe.
- [35:00]
Jeff O'Neill
Now we're talking, now we are talking.
- [35:02]
Rebecca Schinsky
All of the profiles for our boy prk. I have not read this yet, but you have tremendous.
- [35:10]
Jeff O'Neill
The launch event was at the 92nd Street Y with Sarah Jessica Parker herself in attendance. I also noticed now I'm a man that can an occasion navigate a social situation if I, if I put my back into it. But the family of the young man who dies, that is the center of the story comes oh they flew over and they were very much involved and like oh wow. If I remember this correctly like Patrick Raden Keefe was got on the case by someone one like they were looking for people to investigate beyond the police. You know, people to take up the story and heard the story and took it on. So I think they were very much appreciative of his efforts to uncover what may have happened. But I don't know, do you so you're at, you're at the book sign, you're at the Sarah Jessica Parker is like smiling and welcome Patrick and everyone's thrilled. But it's about a book about how your kid died. What are you feeling in that moment, Rebecca?
- [36:09]
Rebecca Schinsky
I have, I, I, I don't know. And he arrives at like or I don't know if he arrives at anything since I haven't read it yet. Like it turns out that the story is much bigger than.
- [36:19]
Jeff O'Neill
Yes, sorry. So the 19 year old, I'm going to use passive voices here intentionally here goes over the ledge of a luxury apartment building in London on the Thames and his body is found a few days later. He, he's, he's passed away. And then it a, it's a story of him, his backstory, his secret life that he didn't, his parents didn't know he was living of privilege of Russian and Eastern European money flowing into London. How it's affected the school systems, the police, the social dynamics of London and private school and aspirational but also online. Rebecca, you may or may not know this. Not everyone says exactly what they mean and are at all times online. So that's, that's a warning for all of us. Us and it becomes a, a really interesting portrait of a young man and so far as we know it, but also a structure, a system, a culture that collides in a way that is elliptical and elusive but with indelible characters and a mystery and investigation and cameras and MI5 and the whole thing.
- [37:26]
Rebecca Schinsky
If you're looking for somebody to get more information about what Happened to your kids and Patrick Radden Keefe shows up at your door. I think you're happy that that's who you have investigating.
- [37:36]
Jeff O'Neill
On the other hand, if you're just doing your life and Patrick Radden Keefe shows up your door with a few questions for you. No, you're marking that down as a bad day. You don't want. That's not something you're looking for.
- [37:45]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, yeah. You don't. Whatever he's gonna find, you don't want found.
- [37:49]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah. One of our shared curiosities is. Where the hell are we with political books right now? And are they good for anything other than I'm going to run for president in a year?
- [38:01]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah. This one stood out to me because it gets at all of those questions. It's Stand By. Cory Booker just came out last week. It's described as an urgent call to rekindle our shared American ideals. Of course, coming on the heels of the senator's historic 25 hour.
- [38:18]
Jeff O'Neill
Is it the heels? This feels like it happened 10,000 years ago.
- [38:22]
Rebecca Schinsky
Well, okay, okay. But that's because of the news cycle that we live in.
- [38:25]
Jeff O'Neill
Well, I'm just saying.
- [38:27]
Rebecca Schinsky
But after his 25 hour, five minute filibuster speech, I mean, anytime a politician writes a memoir, we should assume it's a campaign document. So certainly this is whether Booker runs for president someday or he just wants to continue serving as a senator or, I don't know, a cabinet position someday, whatever. But it is selling, and they don't always sell. It's number two on the New York Times hardcover nonfiction list and number five on PW's hardcover nonfiction list. I mean, I think there's a little extra heat around Cory Booker right now because of that filibuster. He's, you know, out there doing.
- [39:03]
Jeff O'Neill
Married.
- [39:04]
Rebecca Schinsky
He did get married.
- [39:05]
Jeff O'Neill
I'm gonna be not cynical. But he got married.
- [39:07]
Rebecca Schinsky
He did get married. Which reads as a I might want to run for president someday kind of move. But maybe he just loves his lady and wanted to get married to her. Who knows?
- [39:18]
Jeff O'Neill
I hope so.
- [39:19]
Rebecca Schinsky
Stand is out there and it's selling. At least in the first week. Week it has sold. I think one thing that does happen with these political memoirs sometimes is that they get some pre orders or they get enough pre orders to hit the bestseller list in the first week. And then sales tend to trickle off. Unless you're really. Unless you're like Michelle Obama or there's something.
- [39:41]
Jeff O'Neill
I mean, yeah, we saw this with 127 days. I think we saw that they. Gavin Newsom book like the choir will buy the preacher's book. But right now the congregation is not interesting. Interested.
- [39:49]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah.
- [39:49]
Jeff O'Neill
In these particular kinds of stories right now. But to follow that, I was just looking at the march it books just to see if we should bring anything forward or consider. Because what, what do we do with a New Yorker profile of Ben Lerner? All the reviews, apparently it's good. Does this, does this have any. Is it warm? Is it room temperature even? I'm not even suggesting Hot list. Are we room temperature? On transcription by Ben I think we are.
- [40:17]
Rebecca Schinsky
As we're recording this. The book has only been out for three days.
- [40:20]
Jeff O'Neill
Yeah.
- [40:20]
Rebecca Schinsky
Too early, too soon for the hot list, but it could appear on the May hot list. We'll see. He's definitely, I mean, he's an interesting figure and the publisher is invested in that book and in the baby and in the Ben Lerner of it all. So publicity has done a good job getting him interviews, profiles, high, you know, high level features on things. But we'll see what Reader Appetite is like for it.
- [40:47]
Jeff O'Neill
The other one similar and some of these aren't out yet now. May revisit them when we come a little bit later. But the Witch, which you read Mary John, speaking of being on the publicity tour, I don't know that she's ever done this much American publicity. I may have missed it the first go around and maybe it's finally a point where my eyes, my Internet eyes are able to see it or picking it out. But she did a New York magazine thing. There were some more fluff pieces at the right word, but more general cultural interest kind of coverage of her in this book than I have ever seen before in my life, which I thought was really, really interesting.
- [41:16]
Rebecca Schinsky
Yeah, that is interesting. I think she's on my warm list. I would love for Marie and Jai to be selling well. I would be a great situation to be in.
- [41:27]
Jeff O'Neill
I mean, I would actually, you know, if I get to choose, I prefer that to Ben Lerner because Ben Lerner is warm in my heart. It's toasty in there. It doesn't, doesn't. I don't need any more heat. We're going to keep each other warm. Homeothermic.
- [41:38]
Rebecca Schinsky
When it comes to dudes from Kansas,
- [41:40]
Jeff O'Neill
just couple of guys from Kansas because Ben Lehr and I have achieved about the same things, is what I hear you saying.
- [41:46]
Rebecca Schinsky
This is the, the literary bromance that you dream of and I want that for you.
- [41:51]
Jeff O'Neill
It's like that old bit between Ryan Gosling and Russell Crowe, between the Two of us. We have two Oscars and that's even comparing me to Ryan Gosling, which is still unfair.
- [41:58]
Rebecca Schinsky
I think we're having a good day for your ego, I guess.
- [42:01]
Jeff O'Neill
Are we? Yeah, you tell me. Oh, I woke up
- [42:06]
Rebecca Schinsky
self comparing to Ryan Gosling. You're having a good self esteem day.
- [42:09]
Jeff O'Neill
Well, the dynamic. Dynamic. The dynamic. All right, Rebecca, this was fun. That's the hot list. Shoot us. Email Book Riot podcast book riot.com We've been doing this for 5,000 episodes and I still can't get the email right every single time. Google shownotes book riot.com listen. The patreon is patreon.com bookright podcast. Those are all in the show notes are right there in the palm of your hand, which is certainly the place you're listening to podcast because everyone do the show notes right there. Rebecca. Oh, wait. What's in the Zero to well read feed right now? You would know.
- [42:43]
Rebecca Schinsky
I don't because it's coming out as this is airing. Oh, Gilead. Gilead is in the zero to well read feed. Our beloved shared book. A very special week for us on Zero to well read.
- [42:57]
Jeff O'Neill
Wow, wow, wow. You know, we could the same casting. I think we did that for office hours. We casted Gilbert Iliad. You're looking at the same list for the Theo of golden.
- [43:09]
Rebecca Schinsky
I think that's right.
- [43:12]
Jeff O'Neill
My leader in my mental clubhouse right now. I think, I think, I think is. I don't know if it's enough star power, but I think I would choose Richard Jenkins. That's kind of where I would go there.
- [43:26]
Rebecca Schinsky
I'm having a Richard Jenkins moment. He's on DTF St. Louis.
- [43:31]
Jeff O'Neill
Mmm, interesting. All right, Rebecca, we'll take you there.
- [43:41]
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