The It Books of January 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: Book Riot - The Podcast | "The It Books of January 2025"

Release Date: January 6, 2025
Hosts: Jeff O'Neill and Rebecca Schinsky

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Introduction

In the episode titled "The It Books of January 2025", hosts Jeff O'Neill and Rebecca Schinsky delve into the upcoming literary landscape for the new year. As part of their ongoing series, they evaluate and select the most anticipated books poised to dominate sales charts, garner critical acclaim, and capture the interest of diverse readers.

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Selection Process Overview

Jeff and Rebecca employ a knockout round-style approach to determine the IT Book of the month. Starting with 10 finalists, each book faces elimination until one emerges as the standout choice. Jeff explains:

"If it's your first time joining us, we play it knockout run round style. I've chosen 10 finalists. One will enter the ring. They get pass into the ring and then with each subsequent entry, only one continues."
[02:00] – Jeff O'Neill

This method ensures a rigorous evaluation, focusing on factors like sales potential, critical reception, and cultural impact.

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Finalist Book Discussions

1. Witchcraft for Wayward Girls by Grady Hendrix

Rebecca kicks off the discussion with Hendrix's latest novel set in 1970s Florida, following five girls in a home for unwed mothers who stumble upon a guide to witchcraft. She highlights:

"I’m hopefully gonna get something that feels like The Craft. But in the 70s with all of Grady Hendrix’s whimsy."
[02:43] – Rebecca Schinsky

Jeff praises Hendrix's ability to blend horror with cultural tropes, noting his evolving storytelling techniques.

2. Ugly by Alice Feeney

Alice Feeney's Ugly garners attention for its compelling twists and substantial print run. Jeff questions its placement:

"I find it very hard to know what to do with this kind of book. It’s beautiful. Ugly by Alice Feeney... it's not run of the mill."
[04:07] – Jeff O'Neill

Rebecca expresses reservations about its ability to break out of established genre tropes, ultimately deciding to pass:

"I’m gonna pass Grady Hendrix ahead to the next round over Alice Feeney."
[05:02] – Rebecca Schinsky

3. We Do Not Part by Han Kang

A standout contender, Han Kang's We Do Not Part is lauded for its literary depth and the author's Nobel Prize stature. Jeff notes:

"It's gonna sell well. There's going to be a lot of attention on it no matter what reader reception is to it."
[07:18] – Jeff O'Neill

Rebecca emphasizes its potential to appear on prestigious end-of-year lists and its broad appeal across genres.

"This one has all the features of something that we would guess will show up on a Best Books of the Year list."
[08:08] – Rebecca Schinsky

4. Good Dirt by Charmaine Wilkerson

Following her acclaimed debut, Wilkerson's sophomore novel is scrutinized for consistency. Jeff remarks:

"It's a very accomplished debut novel, though still felt like it had some of the early wobbles."
[09:42] – Jeff O'Neill

Despite its strengths, Rebecca decides it doesn't surpass the leading contenders:

"I'm gonna stick with Hong Kong rather than Frida McFadden."
[22:24] – Rebecca Schinsky

5. The Loves of My Life by Edmund White

Edmund White's memoir explores a lifetime of gay love and sexuality. Jeff contemplates its explicit content but acknowledges White's literary prowess:

"It's his stunning, revelatory memoir of a lifetime of gay love and sex."
[11:33] – Jeff O'Neill

Rebecca appreciates White's writing but remains cautious about its mainstream appeal.

6. Onyx Store by Rebecca Yaros

Marking a significant entry, Rebecca Yaros's Onyx Store is highlighted for its expansive storytelling and genre-crossing potential. Jeff describes the book's substantial marketing push:

"It's not a Liz Pelletier taking a 300,000 print run gamble on Fourth Wing. It sounds really cool."
[23:11] – Jeff O'Neill

Rebecca supports its selection, citing its accessibility to various reader demographics and award potential.

"This could go all kinds of places. And I also would not be surprised to see it on end of year lists at the end of 2025."
[25:50] – Rebecca Schinsky

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Decision and Conclusion

After thorough deliberation, Jeff and Rebecca conclude that Nnedi Okorafor's Death of the Author triumphs as the IT Book of January 2025. They recognize its unique positioning, substantial print run, and the esteemed reputation Okorafor holds within the literary community.

Jeff sums up the choice:

"Onyx Store by Rebecca Yaros will be the IT book of January."
[27:10] – Jeff O'Neill

However, Rebecca champions Death of the Author for its genre versatility and potential to resonate across literary circles:

"I think I'm gonna give this one to her over Hong Kong because this will be like... she might grab literary readers that have not previously read her."
[24:58] – Rebecca Schinsky

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Final Thoughts

Jeff and Rebecca reflect on the challenges of predicting book success at the cusp of a new year, especially with limited pre-release information. They express excitement for their selections and anticipation for how these books will perform in the broader literary market.

Jeff concludes with enthusiasm:

"I’m generally excited to try Death of the Author, We Do Not Part."
[31:08] – Jeff O'Neill

Rebecca shares a hopeful outlook on the future trends in literature and the evolving dynamics of reader engagement.

"It looks like this was a big discovery for all of us."
[31:08] – Rebecca Schinsky

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Closing Remarks

The episode offers insightful analysis into the forthcoming literary trends of January 2025, providing listeners with informed predictions and thoughtful evaluations of potential bestsellers. Whether you're a casual reader or an avid book enthusiast, Jeff and Rebecca's discussions offer valuable perspectives on what to expect in the new year’s literary scene.

Happy Reading!

Transcript

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said, what the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood. So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first 3 month plan only. Taxes and fees, extra speed slower above 40 gigabytes of details.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This is the book Riot cast. I'm Jeff O'Neill. I'm Rebecca Schinsky and we are definitely, absolutely and totally coming to you from 2025.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Hop in the time machine. It is December 20th and we're talking.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Today about the IT books of January 2025. If it's your first time joining us, we play it knockout run round style. I've chosen 10 finalists. One will enter the ring. They get pass into the ring and then with each subsequent entry, only one continues. Rebecca takes the first crack at deciding which of them we think as the better candidate for IT book. Sometimes I'll chime in at the end and try to steer one way or the other or break a tie, but other than that, we're trying to talk about the books that are going to be, you know, top of mind in January, top of sales and then really top of interest and you know, towards the end of the year. We've done some post mortems on 2024. We got them sort of mostly right. January is hard because there's a lot of months left after and it tends to be a little thinner. Last year was Martyr was the one we should have picked. You had a sense that it could come up and you had mentioned it, but we both were agreed picking a debut novel is going to burn you more times than is going to reward you. January we just recorded a little while ago though released well a few weeks ago or whatever time it's already been released to the Patreon our winter draft we talked about the season. Broad but kind of shallow I would say. And January is the principal culprit there. So we're gonna get right into it. I have one eye to hide. Not gonna be surprised anybody because okay, as as shameless as Rebecca was in the draft picking crowd pleasers, I really need to protect her from herself coming into this draft. So I need to put that put at the end all right. With no further ado. Something that you did pick.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I detect a little projection there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, it's. It's all misdirection. One that you had on your list though you have not read Grady Hendricks. Up first is Witchcraft for Wayward Girls. You just did the synopsis to me literally seven minutes ago. So why don't you run it back for the people about what Witchcraft. Witchcraft for Wayward Girls is about and why it's on your radar and maybe should be on.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is a novel set in the 1970s in Florida about five girls in a home for unwed mothers who discover a guide to witchcraft. And I'm guessing. Or hoping. Hope guessing. I'm hopefully gonna get something that feels like the craft. But in the 70s with all of the Grady Hendrix whimsy. I've not read Hendrix before. This is the one that's gonna get me on board. And I haven't been resisting as I was saying on the draft episode for any particular reason. I've just never like. It's never risen to the top of the things that I was considering in a week of new releases. But this looks like so much fun.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, it looks like a lot of fun. Horror Store Final Girl support group there's just been a lot of these where he's taking a. I don't know with Horror Store is a little bit different. But he tends to now be playing around with cultural tropes around storytelling and finding a way to mash them up and put them together. A real success story since we've been doing this. Okay with that? With one under about. We're gonna take our first sponsor break before we get into the rest of the list. I find it very hard to know what to do with this kind of book. It's beautiful. Ugly by Alice Feeney. Alice Feeney has been selling a lot of copies. The best selling queen of twists I guess named by her publisher. Good job Flatiron Come with that? I love that. I love that. For.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Is that what we're using now instead of for readers of Gone Girl?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I. I guess so. She wrote Bad Good Bad Girl which is basically chat GPT title for. For Go Rock Paper sisters. His or hers. I know who you are and sometimes I lie. I think was the one that really broke out 150,000 print run. Again with all of these synopsis of pretty straight genre. It's like. Yeah, I've kind of heard this before. So the main character has had a great day. I think he just sold his book or something. Calls his wife. He's like, yay, here's your slams on the brake. Nothing else happens. Finds a car by the cliff and she's gone. And then you have to find out. So I guess it's all in the, you know, how it's done. So what are we going to do with Alice feeney? This is 100. It's not. I'm trying. It's. It's not free to McFadden, but it's also not run of the mill. Like, that's a huge print run. I don't know. Indie. Next list. It's got good reviews. Not. I'm not going to read this. Rebecca, what do we do with the book like this?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't know. I mean, I think this is easier for me in the IT books rubric of like, will it be good? Will it get critical acclaim? You know, is it going to get a zeitgeisty, you know, sort of become a story? I think Feeny is living in the place now where, like, her books are read. The people who like her, really, really like her, they're gonna pick up the next Alice Feeney book. But one of the challenges, and it's a consistent challenge of books that are pretty straight genre, is that it's hard for them to break out because they do all, you know, follow similar tropes. So I guess I'll take the question in two parts. And the first one is I'm gonna pass Grady Hendrix ahead to the next round over Alice Feeney. I don't think Alice Feeney has landed in the place yet where, like, when there's a new Alice Feeney book, we just note it, but we don't bring it into the IT books conversation. She's not that big, but she's maybe on her way maybe.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Maybe because it hasn't gotten to the point of either had enough books or sold enough. Where you get Mount Rushmore, right, where it's, you know, there's another Patterson book or Nora Roberts or Emily Henry, but nor is it infrequent enough to be like a Leanne Moriarty. Right. So it's kind of a weird Tier C. And this is a great place to be if you want to sell books. That's. That's no, no slag. But when your name is maybe bigger than your individual title, I think that's actually a generally demerit for what we're looking for, what the IT books gladiatorial arena is looking for here.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I guess on the other end of the spectrum, books don't come out Very often. There's a reason to think about this author differently now than we did in the fall because she has a little something called the Nobel Prize hanging around her neck. This is We Do Not Part by Han Kang, the South Korean writer who really broke out with the vegetarian. A lot of people read that book. And of the. Of the Nobel winners of late. Not named Alice Monroe or Bob Dylan, I guess had a lot of. Oh, I love that writer. Right. Which is really a special place to be. An unusual place to be. The particular. The setup here is that a young woman gets a call from a friend. Says she's been a terrible accident. I need some help. I suppose you take count of my bird. I can't feel like the bird's gonna matter here because it's in a synopsis more than I would think.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Which is somebody needs to let us know in advance. Does the bird die?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Is the bird. I'm gonna assume so. Birds just like to die anyway. They're not the hardiest of pets above goldfish and hamsters, but below, you know, turtles and cats and do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And I feel like a good rule of thumb most of the time is that in literary fiction when an animal is central, at least something bad is going to happen.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Having read the Vegetarian Kong is not going to be sentimental about the fate of any being. And then she gets caught in a snowstorm on her way. And then weird stuff happens. So I sent him into this. I think this is going to be a big deal. Who knows if it's. It has the right shape to become a. It's going to sell well. There's going to be a lot of attention on it no matter what reader reception is to it. But reader reception is going to decide if it's the kind of book we're talking about the end of year or not.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. I'm saying it's like this has all the features of something that we would guess will show up on a Best Books of the Year list. No surprises at all. If Hong Kong is nominated for National Book Award. Pulitzers. Whatever. As these are coming out, it's a real question for me how widely read it will be. And like that makes The Grady Hendrix vs Hong Kong showdown tougher than I thought it would be. I do think with Hendrix there's like big book club potential. Those are accessible, they're fun and they're smart. You can be a casual reader and get into Grady Hendrix. You can't really be like. It's less likely for a kind of casual Barnes and Noble New Releases browser to Pick up a Hong Kong novel. I don't really know.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Let me help you out here. We are picking Hong Kong.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm going to tell you why. Because Grady Hendrick has done several of these and they're starting to bleed together.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

In this, I mean, they're all kind of. I mean, they're different, but they're of a piece and I like them. And they're different enough from other things that I'm not. It's kind of like we were talking about Peter Heller either on air or off. Like, do we want Peter Heller to change lanes? Like, well, no. No one else is in that lane, so stay in that lane. We want a car in that lane. I'm the same with Grady Hendrix, but it definitely feels like there is a lane.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, we'll go. I'm happy to go with that. I was also thinking this is only the third round of ten, and so it's unlikely that either the Grady Hendrix or the Hong Kong wins the month. So I wasn't going to antagonize over it. But I am happy to ride for Hong Kong and I loved Greek Lessons last year, so I'm ready for more.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Up next, a sophomore novel by an author. We both really liked their debut and we talked about it and I've recommended and actually, you know, hand sold and bought for people in my life. Black Cake we loved by Charmaine Wilkerson. We thought it was a very accomplished debut novel, though. Still felt like it had some of the, I don't know, the, the early wobbles. And it's not consistently excellent in a way that a second or third novel tends to be in the very rare exceptions. The first one is awesome. This one's called Good dirt, comes out January 28th from Ballantine. So it's a. It's a affluent black family and there's something that happened that was bad and there's a mystery and there's an heirloom that has something to do with it. I'm gonna guess multi generational family trauma. Yeah, that's kind of it. Okay, what's going on here?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, I mean, I love Charmaine Wilkerson. I'm interested in how this book performs. But she was not going to beat either Greedy Hendrix or Hong Kong. So it's going to be Hong Kong with we do not part carrying on to the next round. And this is a big question, like, Black Cake was a really high profile debut. We both did really like it. And when we talked about it, though, we identified, you know, debut novel problems Things that make a book feel like somebody's first book, which is not a knock. It's just a thing that happens when you have not had a big novel before. So how this will be, Will it be good? Has she improved, cleaned up some of the debut novel problems? Or were those debut novel problems going to sort of revelations of cracks that would exist in her craft? This happens with sophomore novels all the time. So, yeah, Hong Kong it is. Lots of questions for Charmaine Wilkerson.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Up next, the book I really, I'm glad exists. If I were a different person, I'm sure I'd enjoy this and I'm tempted to even try it myself, but I'm approved by nature and my reading life tends to reflect.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I know where we're going here.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The Loves of My Life by Edmund White, who is an exciting, wonderful prose writer of prosecutors. This is his stunning, revelatory memoir of a lifetime of gay love and sex. Okay, great. The thing that trips me up a little bit just from my own reading taste. This is. There's no demerit. Morally, ethically, artistically, thousands of lovers. It sounds like it's going to be pretty explicit. I blush, I get uncomfortable. Rebecca, I don't know what to say. That's just who I am.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean, my like threshold for this stuff is, I think, significantly higher than yours. But I really wonder, like, do I want to read this book or do I want to read all the profiles of him and reviews and, you know, all of the stuff that will surround the book more than I want to read the direct descriptions? I'm not sure I'm really interested in this one. I've had my eye on it. It's typically like. I would typically do a memoir on audio, but I do not know that I can survive driving around right into your ears. Yeah. Listening to that. Or like doing the dishes and then getting surprised by some very explicit scene. Although it sounds like the explicit scenes will not be a surprise.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean, yeah, it's on the tin here. It's. I mean, he's such a good writer that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, he is.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Anyone is going to.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

There will be great sentences.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Midwife me through it being, quote, raw, funny and transgressive. That's Robert Jones Jr's quote. But also John Irving said, love of sex makes us proud to be human. Maybe I need to learn a little bit. Maybe I got something to learn here from an 85 year old who's just laying it all out there.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Maybe what you're getting Here is your 2025 New Year's resolution.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I will freak myself out.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Fly the freak flag. I. I will read this. I will. I'll go first. I'll be the canary for us here.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I would really love to be on so excited. I would love to be unreservedly excited and just you know, it would be any persuasions of thousands of. This is nothing about.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, yeah. The particular profiles of the people who are having the sex on the page do not matter.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Immaterial.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You're very Midwestern.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, that's right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm going to continue Hong Kong on over here.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

As well.

[Jeff O'Neill]

75K print run for this book which is seems considerable. Also makes me wonder if there's a some actor. If you could attack some actor to this. Oh, I feel like if Daniel Craig hadn't made Queer would he be starring the loves of my life? Oh God. Yeah. There you go. Anyway. But 85 year old looking back could be. I mean there's parts of me, there's. There's a huge part of me that's extremely interested in this.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We, we had a lot of positive email about your wonderings about your relationship and timeline of menopause and that's something. And I have texted about. There's that great New Yorker piece or New York Times piece about. And now Naomi Watts has this book called Dare I say it which is about what she's learned about menopause. It feels like there could be a moment here. Rebecca, is a celebrity gonna do this for us? I don't know. What do you think? You tell me. This is all in your court. I bet. I totally yield to you.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I was just writing for Better Living through Books, which is one of our newsletters. I was just writing about the self help and like self improvement lifestyle trends for 2025 and one of them is there's a big flock of menopause books. In my personal opinion, Dr. Jen Gunter's menopause manifesto is the one. Like she is an OB GYN and has been on TV for years. It has also kind of like built a whole business around talking about menopause and developing awareness and partnering with physicians. There's definitely a moment. Naomi Watts also has a company called Stripes. As in like I'm old enough to have earned some of them that like they sell products for women going through menopause. I'm a little more than a little bit skeptical of like let me write about this health issue and also here's a supplement that you can buy.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But I do think that. I think this is a good thing writ Large, because famous women who are known for being beautiful are. And young originally are going to go out and talk about, like, the thing that for most of American culture, at least, women have not talked about. Like, the change of life gets glossed over and a bunch of, you know, beautiful famous women going out to make it accessible and appropriate and acceptable for more people who will go through menopause to talk about that experience is. That's a. That's a big significant deal. It's important work that they're doing. I hope, you know, like, qualified professionals continue to weigh in. And I do believe she co wrote this with a physician. There is no way Naomi Watts gets to knock Hong Kong off of the pedestal here. But I'm glad that you mentioned it. I'm going to keep my eye on this one. I don't think I'm going to be reading it, but I'm going to watch what happens.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You know, it's funny, I was thinking. So there's a. There's a version of this that, like, you know, a celebrity attachment, interest and advocacy can really elevate an issue. Of course. But when we talk about a book that, like, changed the discussion around an identity or condition or place in the world, I can't think of celebrity memoirs that did it. Like Steve Silberman's Neuro Tribes. Right. Like, that's like. That, to me, is as clear of example that there was before neurotribes and after. For a lot of people who read that book and it's a part of a movement and everything else, it certainly wasn't the thing. But I can't think of that for, like, celebrity stuff.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I don't think. I don't think it's the celebrity book that ends up being the thing. But celebrities bringing attention to an issue, like, sort of paves the way for other, like, for the mainstream to be open to talking about that issue. And maybe like, a book by a physician or a book by another type of expert then can become the thing that cracks open the conversation. Conversation around it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Do you remember when the book Thief was the biggest deal in the world?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And Marcus Zusak, for a moment was like, John Green. Right. It was him and John Green writing young adult. And that book Thief was a huge hit and continues to sell pretty well. He's had some other books that have come out, and I don't know if they've done anything because I don't remember them all. He has a memoir called Three Wild Dogs coming out from Harper. It's a Memoir of his family's relationship with dogs that they brought into their house and what that kind of happened. So it sounds like it's pretty tender. These kinds of dog memoirs like Marley and Me work. Zeus xl. Works a little darker than that. That. This sounds darker than that. I don't know what to do with it. It seems like kind of an interesting zag for someone who's coming across genre in format. Probably will do kind of what you would think. Still a pretty decent print run. I don't know. I threw it in here. I was like, let's take it out for a spin and see what happens.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I saw this one when I was doing research for the draft, and I had a. Like, I don't know what to do with Markus Zusak doing a memoir about dogs. Also, I'm, you know, bonafide dog person. I am not reading something where, like, he's gonna talk about the dogs he has loved and the dogs that have died. Like, I don't need to do that. I don't need to go through Marley and Me. I'm not gonna Marley and Me myself or whatever flavor of this. I do think this will sell. I'm sure he will. Do you know the media circuit around it, But I don't know how many people actually know Marcus Zusak's name. People know the book.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Not anymore. Yep. I think that's. That's one. There's this great story. I can't remember which book it was in. Do you remember when the Acura Legend came out? I'm zagging into cars. You were probably of an age with, like, the 90s. Acura brought out the legend.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Sure.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Anyway, it got super popular. Like, it sold really well. But Acura changed the name, even though people. Because people started referring to it as I have a legend, not an Acura legend. And they were worried about their brand getting swallowed, followed up.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So they now it's all Acura. My cat walked over my keyboard numbers, you know, that people do on their thing. And I think that does happen to some authors. Like, this is always the thing. Do you want to be a brand, or do you? And so people are expecting what they get from you every time. Like, it's a bit of a golden handcuff situation where the Stephen King of it, like, who among us, like, most writers would. Would give their eye teeth to it. But there does come a point where someone's expecting this one kind of thing from you, and you don't want to do it anymore. I think John Green, I guess, is Also maybe in this role where he's not really writing YA anyway. His new book is about tuberculosis. He wrote the Anthropocene. He wants to write popular, nerdy science fiction that change. Or excuse me, science nonfiction that changes the world. He doesn't want to write, hey, we both got cancer, let's Fall in Love anymore that people know him for.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think John Green is doing kind of the writer version of Now I have FU money.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like, yeah, sure. Which God love him. Great.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I do too. Yeah. He doesn't have to stay in the lane that he's been known for. And it. I don't think it matters to John Green if his YA audience comes along with him to the tuberculosis book. This is the project that's exciting to him. It will get enough attention that it will sell well enough that he can continue his career. I think the tough thing is for somebody who like, they have a brand, but the brand ends up attached to one title. And that's what's happened to Zusak, where if he had written like several things that were all sort of in the vein of the Book Thief and people came to know like that collection of books, they would then know Markus Zusak's name in the way that people know who Stephanie Meyers is. They know who Suzanne Collins is. They know Colleen Hoover, they know Sarah J. Maas, they know Rebecca Yarros. But like most folks who have read the Book Thief have only read that by Zusak and probably do not know his name. And it's like changing lanes is really difficult if you're trying to take any of your. Your existing readership with you there when you're known for doing one thing with one book. So Hong Kong is going to continue. She's going to carry on.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It hasn't been as long of a reign, but this is going to be the. Well, actually, we're going to do a sponsor break before we get into the top three. I think this. I'm going to do one more. Freedom McFadden in the.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Just. I was looking at the end of your sales. The boyfriend's selling very well. We got the announcement today that Sydney Sweeney and Amanda Seyfried. That's how you say her name, are going to be a big adaptation next Christmas. We have. This is our second data point in the non romantasy book talk can make a career and mint a name. We've done the Boyfriend came out. There's a bunch. This one's called the Crash. A pregnant young woman is driving and I know it's going to shock you that she gets in a crash and she has to figure out how to make it through Maine. So car crashes in the winter doesn't seem like unskied snow, I guess to continue the winter metaphor.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, kind of the point.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And so I don't know what to do. Rebecca. It's going to sell 100,000 copies the first week and people are going to read it and recommend it. And you can hear by my tone of voice that I am glad for freedom. McFadden. I'm sure people but that there is one person in genre mystery and thrillers that are selling a whole bunch more and it's new does not get me excited about it. So I put it here. I leave it up to you to decide how to handle this at this point.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, you know, my biggest regret from it books of 2024 was picking Sarah J. Maas in January over Martyr. And so by that logic, by law of transference, I'm going to stick with Hong Kong rather than Frida McFadden. It will sell. It won't ring any of the other it book spells.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, so Freda McFadden, this is the last time we're going to join. She will be joining us for the IT books. She's earned her. I sell so many books and they're all of what people expect in my genre. Congratulations. And you get to console yourself with your giant piles of money. All right, down to the last two. Death of the Author by Nnedi Okorafor from William Morrow. Getting the full deluxe package, stenciled edges, deluxe, I think embossed cover, 150,000 print run for the limited edition, only 30 for the standard edition. That is so surprising to me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Choice architecture man.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I guess so. She, she got the bag for this a seven figure advance which is considerably more than she would have gotten for her other well regarded and popular books. This one is an attempt by Okorafor and Morrow who signed her to break her into a, I guess a more mainstream or at least mainstream sci fi. I'm not really sure how their position, what their hopes are for this. I'm sure it's considerable. It is not a Liz Pelletier Pelletier taking a 300,000 print run gamble on fourth wing. It's not that kind of thing, but it sounds really cool. The main character is an author who writes a book that becomes a phenomenon and it kind of sounds like it takes over her life and maybe a big chunk of the world somehow. I don't really know. We're going to go with this. It's a, it's a. It's a chunky boy. 448 pages. We're going to get into it. It sounds like it's going to be quite strange, but for me this is my most anticipated book of the month. Because of a core of war, because of the synopsis, because of the sort of positioning and marketing behind it. I'm hoping to get on and have a great time.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think I'm gonna give this one to her over Hong Kong because this will be like. This kind of genre is more accessible to most readers. Hong Kong can be heady and literary. You tend to be that when you're winning the Nobel Prize for fiction. But this I think could. It's gonna. Has the real potential to do that like cross genre thing where she might grab literary readers that have not previously read her. She might pick up some romantasy readers who are curious to come into the literary realm. Do some sci fi folks that are ready for who knows what. She's got a strong following already within the sci fi and fantasy readership. This could go all kinds of places. And I also would not be surprised to see it on end of year lists at the end of 2025. Also like she can write a sentence. So we might see this up for some awards as well. Like the real four quadrant it book potential here.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, yeah, that's really tough. I feel like the variance for death of the author is higher.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think so. But I also think the ceiling is higher.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's right. It just, it's just much more of a roll of the dice. And I guess then you compare it to what the risk premium you're getting over Hong Kong, which it's just not going to sell as well as a vegetarian. I just don't think it will.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It has a mystery thriller element which can help a book sell, have a sort of paternity element. But a core four is going to get big profiles in New York Times and stuff. I would imagine we're going to see the full core reintroducing her to the world, trying to gather. So we're going to get sort of an equivalent moment almost.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think so.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Whereas Hong Kong I think got a lot of that already in the fall. So it's going to be a bit of. More of an echo boom to the Nobel Prize. Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And Kong just like she does not write anything straightforward and I love that. But that's a challenge.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This is a, this is a. This is a NASCAR race. It's just curves for all of them all the way around.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But I think less difficult. Like there's an element of Hong Kong like you're gonna. You can sometimes feel like you are doing readerly work like in a satisfying good way. But okorafor. And the tropes and like tricks of genre that can pull you in can obscure some of that. So I'm just. I'm gonna stick with Nettie.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. I think that there's a couple different things that this. This book will have winner of the Nobel Prize on it. People like the vegetarian. And even as strange as this is, it's a little bit more independent bookstore customer friendly than a core for which is as kinds of strangest they're less used to than the kind of strangest they're going to be used to in Hong Kong, I think. So anyway, this was all preamble to the Onyx Store. It's not the. There's no definite article. Onyx Store by Rebecca Yaros will be the it book of January. The third out of five, I believe is the number we're getting into the Empyrean saga. I know that because that's how big Rebecca Yaros is at this point. I guess my question to you is are we would be. Here are three scenarios for Onyx Storm. It feels like a comedown off the hype of Iron Flame. It exceeds the hype of Iron Flame. The second book and the third being it sort of plateaus like it feels kind of like we're where we are. Which of those three would be the most surprising outcome to you? I'm trying to figure out something to talk about here, Rebecca. I'm ginning up a conversation point.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, the expectation would be regression to the mean. And so the most surprising thing would be that it exceeds the conversation about the first two.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right. Right. It has been building. I do think. Is it more trying to think in other series? We're right in the middle and usually the middle parts of a series are the least.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Hyped because we're not at the beginning, we're not at the end.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's a tough sell. And like you have to have read two other long books.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

To be able to pick this one up. These are. They are sequential is my understanding. You do need to know what happened in the first two. You can't just jump into Onyx Storm. And I mean, first of all, there's a big question mark about what's going to be happening with TikTok writ large. Like will it continue to exist?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Will TikTok continue to be a thing? I suspect it will and it will be bought. But like will it continue is currently an open question. And the future of Booktok, like there's a not small amount of discourse happening about like is Booktok already on the downslope? And if that's the case then the combination of the tough sell of a third book in the middle of a five book series plus maybe BookTok doesn't have quite the juice that it used to have. Or is Booktok moving on to other things? Like can Booktok sustain interest and get new people interested in something that's already been big for two years?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. What's hard to tell is how many people since Onyx Storm come out are getting on the train.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And those then become pre orders first week. They have a lot of latent excitement and energy around it. I. I just, I don't know. You're right. Regression. The mean is probably that should be our prior. I also am not going to underestimate this series. I'm done underestimating this series and I'm done wondering if we've hit peak. Book Talk. Just wake me when the official declaration is made that we're on the downslope or whatever.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Happening here. I guess if I, if I really wanted to look I could like look at Google trend searches for Onyx Storm or fourth one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh yeah. One of the things that's interesting about doing this recording today where we're like two weeks out from when the show is going to air is usually we're recording pretty close in. We're already like right to the month that has started and there's coverage that has begun and we can sort of read the tea leaves about how a book has been received and where it's going to go. But not only are we two weeks out from the end of the year or from the end of the month, but we're at the end of the year here and folks are still doing end of year coverage and aren't really into early 2025 coverage. There's not much like I felt like I was flying blind a little bit more in this version of IT books than I have in past ones. Just because there aren't like pieces of other, you know, literary media and other book publications to sort of like get the vibe of how a book is going to do. So this will be a big discovery for all of us.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And I wonder what the coverage choices are for because like with Fourth Wing it's a huge gamble with Onyx Storm as this worked. And the you know, we've got a.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Runaway hit that was the second Iron Flames.

[Jeff O'Neill]

When I keep. What am I saying?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Onyx Storm. They all sound like.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I'm getting them confused because I.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Put them in a title.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But there was with that, with, with Iron Flame coming, I was like, okay, this is a thing now. Like this is a thing. You can do trend pieces and wait, who is heroes again? And what is Red Tower about? And Romantasy and the whole thing with the third book. I'm not sure what this, what is the non book story about this? Yeah, it's kind of. If this is huge in romantic sales, it's kind of a dog bites man news story at this point in the world of books and reading. So I'll be curious to say. Okay, that's our winter draft. I hope everyone's 2025 is getting off to a good start. It looks like I maybe had a little bit of Internet trouble there, Rebecca. So people might be hearing a couple weird cuts and edits there, but we got through it. We're ready for the New Year's under our belt. Three or four things here. I'm generally excited to try Death of the Author Hong Kong. I mean there's a lot of stuff and if I can Grady Hendrix read through my fingers. Once you tell me it's okay to read the Edmund White it, that's where I'm going to be on that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Maybe I'll give myself that gift on New Year's Eve.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, God. All right, thanks, Rebecca. We'll talk to you later. Happy reading, everybody.