The It Books of July 2026

Summary

Book Riot - The Podcast

Episode Summary: The It Books of July 2026

Hosts: Jeff O’Neill & Rebecca Schinsky
Date: July 1, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Book Riot’s flagship podcast is the much-anticipated “It Books of July” installment, where Jeff and Rebecca break down the top buzzworthy book releases for the month—those most likely to catch both critical and popular acclaim. They discuss literary trends, debut picks, returning literary stars, award potential, and the shifting significance of book club endorsements. The duo also recaps their “It Books” picks from earlier in 2026, assessing their own predictive track record and reflecting on wider shifts in literary zeitgeist and sales.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Podcast & Patreon Housekeeping

• Jeff and Rebecca return after a brief hiatus, sharing updates about recent Book Riot projects and literary podcasts.

• Jeff mentions reading Yesteryear (a big topic among listeners) and preparing to discuss it for Patreon.

• They recap their recent Zero to Well Read episode, fittingly on the U.S. Constitution, released at the time of major Supreme Court decisions.

  “A good time to brush up on the Constitution if you haven't touched it since middle school social studies.” – Rebecca [02:26]

• Early buzz for their Patreon episode prepping readers for the new Odyssey movie adaptation.

  “If you want to row the wine Dark Sea before the Odyssey comes out, we have posted our getting-ready-to-read-the-Odyssey episode for Patreon members.” – Jeff [03:04]

• Jeff shares a humorous anecdote about correcting a docent at the Louvre on Greek mythology, to the mild horror of his kids.

  “My kids were mortified. Completely mortified. I was thrilled.” – Jeff [04:02]

2. The "It Books" Play-In: Debut Novels of July

Jeff and Rebecca review three debut novels vying for breakout status:

• A Real Animal by Emmaline Atwood

  • “A woman in her 20s crossing the country, wrestling with sexuality, secrets, and suspense. Very 'Emma Cline, The Girls' energy.” – Jeff [11:41]

• Make Nice by Ryan Fgen

  • “Three generations convene at a ritzy Lake Michigan resort… Comedy of manners, family drama. Think Maggie Shipstead’s ‘Seating Arrangements’ or J. Courtney Sullivan.” – Rebecca [14:21]

• The Simp by Roshan Ethy Sethi

  • “About a personal assistant in an absurd Hollywood family. Class dynamics, satire, and inside-Hollywood authenticity from the ‘Resident’ showrunner.” – Jeff [15:00]

• Rebecca selects “Make Nice” as her debut to advance:

  “It just sounds like my platonic ideal of a summer novel. Those kinds of novels can get some traction.” – Rebecca [16:55]

3. Main Contenders: Book-by-Book Knockout

Rebecca and Jeff pit buzzy releases head-to-head, with Rebecca choosing which advances as the likely “It Book”:

A. Yellow Pine by Claire Vaye Watkins [Out July 1, Riverhead]

• Desert-set, darkly funny, tangled relationships; “second chance romance” vibes.

  “People do weird stuff in the desert, and Claire Vaye Watkins has really tapped into that.” – Rebecca [19:36]

• Rebecca advances Yellow Pine over Make Nice.

B. Famous Men by Julie Buntin [July 14, Random House]

• Tale of small-town scandal and a hunt for a possibly famous father; book club and mainstream/literary crossover potential.

  “This feels a little more summery and a little more crossover from mainstream and literary readers.” – Rebecca [21:28]

• Famous Men advances.

C. Helpless by Jessica Knoll [July 6, Thriller]

• A star author returns; campus novel meets sharp thriller themes.

  "A campus novel back for the funeral… really good potential. Thrillers do sometimes, at least with this kind of subject matter, get selected for the big book clubs." – Rebecca [24:02]

• Rebecca calls this the “big summer thriller” and advances it.

D. Heartstopper, Vol. 6 by Alice Oseman

• Final volume of the beloved LGBTQ+ graphic novel series. TV adaptation drives broader buzz.

  “Part of my soul just needs to do that—make Heartstopper the book of the year.” – Rebecca [26:40]

• Ultimately, Helpless continues for its bigger cultural impact.

E. Cool Machine by Colson Whitehead

• Finale of the Harlem trilogy; expected critical acclaim but lower mainstream or book club splash.

  “Are they going to go for [Whitehead] for the third in a crime series? I’m not sure… Not going to get book club selections.” – Rebecca [29:54]

• Rebecca hesitates but keeps Helpless in the lead.

F. The Great Wherever by Shannon Sanders

• Southern novel with literal gossipy ghosts; unique but high risk for mainstream crossover.
  • Rebecca appreciates the ambition but keeps Helpless as the front-runner [34:55].

G. Country People by Daniel Mason [July 7, Random House]

• Major enthusiasm from both hosts. Family leaves city for rural Vermont; strong “fairytale” narrative voice, zany characters, literary craftsmanship.

  “It’s Daniel Mason doing a fairy tale. The narrative voice… feels like the narrator of a fairy tale… What a pleasant surprise… magical.” – Rebecca [35:34]

• Rebecca calls it one of her top reads of the year; advances it over Helpless.

H. Biological War by Annie Jacobsen [Nonfiction]

• Terrifying exploration of global biological threats. Likely acclaimed but not a mainstream summer read.

  “There’s no way you’re going to be clocking it on a bunch of pool chairs this summer.” – Rebecca [44:07]

• Country People holds its ground.

I. Beginning, Middle, End by Valeria Luiselli

• Road-trip, mother-daughter novel set in Sicily; award contender but not enough to dethrone Daniel Mason.

4. Industry Talk: Book Clubs and Bestseller “It” Factor

• Discussion of whether Reese, Jenna, and Oprah picks still matter for book culture.

  “They just don’t seem to be a leading indicator anymore… more trailing indicators.” – Jeff [46:53]

• Consensus: today’s book club picks matter more for sales than for literary conversation or lasting acclaim.

  • “They’re less important for ‘bookiness’ than they used to be.” – Rebecca [47:33]

• The duo debate if book clubs help debut authors more than established writers, but find “It Book” buzz is more reliably forecasted through award lists and critical mass.

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5. Retrospective: How Are Their 2026 Picks Holding Up?

[53:25 – 59:00]

Rebecca and Jeff revisit their “It Book” picks from January through June 2026, evaluating their predictive instincts and highlighting particular standouts:

| Month | Pick | Correct? | Reflections | |-----------|------------------------------|--------------|-------------------------------| | January | Vigil by George Saunders | Yes | Still on best-of lists. | | February | Kin by Tayari Jones | Yes | “Obvious one.” | | March | Python’s Kiss by Louise Erdrich | Unclear/Null | Controversial, but few standouts. | | April | London Falling by Patrick Radden Keefe | No | Should have been Yesteryear. | | May | John of John by Douglas Stuart | Yes | Right call; tough competition. | | June | Whistler by Ann Patchett | Yes | Consensus. |

“Four out of five and one abstention. Not bad.” – Rebecca [58:16]

Currently, Yesteryear is “the book of the year so far… and it’s not particularly close in terms of award season.” – Jeff [58:56]

• Favorite personal reads so far?
  • Rebecca: Close between John of John and Country People
  • Jeff: Transcription (by Ben Lerner), with other contenders on his upcoming to-read pile.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Daniel Mason’s unique literary voice:

  “What Mason is doing with the narration in Country People just levels that up for me.” – Rebecca [59:41]

• On the lasting importance of literary awards over book club picks:

  “For purposes of the literary establishment… I just don’t know. I feel like those [book club picks] are now trailing indicators.” – Jeff [47:05]

• Humorous banter on their predictive “It Book” scorecard:

  “Four out of five and one abstention. Not bad.” – Rebecca [58:16]

• Self-aware reflection on the Goodreads/Oprah/Book Club overlap:

  “They’re not really doing the discovery-level things that they’re doing anymore. And I actually don’t think they, they certainly, even if they help some of the sales, I don’t know that they do.” – Jeff [48:32]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:04] – Patreon updates: “Prepping for the Odyssey”
• [11:41] – Debut novel play-in selections
• [14:21] – Summer family drama trend (Make Nice)
• [19:36] – “Yellow Pine” and desert weirdness
• [24:02] – Anticipating the “big summer thriller” (Helpless)
• [26:16] – Consideration of Heartstopper Vol. 6 and graphic novels
• [29:54] – The Colson Whitehead conundrum (Cool Machine and Harlem trilogy wrap-up)
• [35:34] – Rebecca raves about Daniel Mason’s Country People
• [44:07] – Nonfiction pick: Annie Jacobsen’s Biological War
• [46:53] – Reevaluating the impact of book club picks in 2026
• [52:45] – Retrospective, revisiting It Books of the year so far
• [58:56] – Declaring the year’s frontrunners, personal favorites

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Top pick for July 2026 “It Book” is Country People by Daniel Mason**—for its literary merit, joyful surprise, and likely critical acclaim despite lighter summer fare.
• While big book clubs (Reese, Jenna, Oprah) still have sway, their selections are less determinant of literary “It” status than in earlier years.
• This month saw a rich crop of literary fiction, notable thrillers, and genre-crossover titles. Heartstopper, Vol. 6 marks a major moment for LGBTQ+ graphic novels and adaptation crossovers.
• Jeff and Rebecca’s predictive record for picking “It Books” remains strong, with four out of five so far for 2026.

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Closing & Where to Listen

• Book Riot Podcast: bookriot.com/listen
• Contact: [e-mail]
• Patreon for exclusive episodes and deep dives.
• Next up: “How to Get Ready to Read the Odyssey” podcast and a deep-dive Yesteryear discussion featuring Vanessa.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

This summer, Prime Video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school and into the world of Elle woods in high school. Set in 1995, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, 90s nostalgia and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one law school was hard, high school was harder. From the world of Legally Blonde, watch Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video. Watch now Foreign

[Jeff O'Neill]

this is the Book Riot Podcast. I am Jeff o'. Neill.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And I'm Rebecca Schinsky.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And we're back. Rebecca, it's been a few weeks of hit. You know you've been doing some stuff. I was gone, you were at ala. We're back in the saddle, at least for a little while before you're going to take off for a while. But we're here for the halfway point of 2026. It is time for the IT books of July. At the end of this episode we're going to look at how we've done so far, what we've picked, how those things are holding up, a couple of housekeeping things. I did read yesteryear on my vacation and I am talking about that for the patreon that we're going to record later this week that'll be out at the end of this week. So a lot of interest I'd say from our audience members to see what we're gonna think of yesteryear. And I've got a lot to say, at least at this point.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

My text are here heating up my group chat because I can't talk to you and I can't talk to Vanessa, so I'm talking to other people about

[Jeff O'Neill]

it over on Zero to well read in the feed. Now it's the US Constitution with her old pal, former co worker and now full time political commentator Amanda Nelson joined us to talk about the venerable U.S. constitution. Auspicious timing I don't think we knew is going to land on Supreme Court end of term day. But weirdly relevant, like some big 14th amendment vibes coming out of the Supreme Court and other things there.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, we just got lucky. We timed it to go with America 250, which, you know, next Tuesday is after the Fourth of July. So we released it this week. But yeah, just this morning. Big decisions as we're recording coming out of the Supreme Court. So a good time to brush up on the Constitution if you haven't touched it since middle school social studies, which I think Amanda maybe had. I don't think you or I had done that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't think I had. No.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So thank you. That's fun. And then next week we will be talking about the under. Oh no. What is Underground Railroad? Maybe I have now now actually recording.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But then. But if you want that's usually my job is to not know where we

[Rebecca Schinsky]

are to be confused about where we are in space and time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But if you want to row the wine Dark sea before Odyssey comes out, we have posted our getting ready to read the Odyssey episode for Patreon members. You've done a great job with the check ins on the conversations over there. A lot of, a lot of activity.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it's been really fun.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Really fun to see there. And then our full episode on the Odyssey will come out. Is it right before the movie comes out?

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's on the 7th, so about a week and a half before the movie hits theaters. I have my IMAX tickets for the night of the 16th. I'm ready.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And then. Yeah, like I said in the Patreon right now there is a. What we did 45ish minutes on. So you want to read the Odyssey? Here's what you might want to know. I was in Europe for the last couple of weeks and I didn't tell you. I meant to tell you this off air, but I'm guessing I'm going to do it on air.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let's do it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Corrected a docent at the Louvre about the history of Discord. Well, they're doing the Venus de Milo thing and right. And like, okay, the Apple of Discord. And I was like, well, it actually wasn't this and it was that. It's like, okay, great. And everyone's like, great.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You fully.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, actually my kids were mortified. Completely mortified. I was thrilled.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's like next level daddom. I'm really pleased for you.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It was on like a semi private tour. So it really was for my family. Two other people in the tour, like, who.

[Audiobook Narrator]

What was I trying?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Who was I trying to impress? And the answer is it's not about that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's not about that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Not about that.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

It's we.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's about the facts, ma'. Am. But those people went home from their vacation and they were like, there was this guy on our tour and he corrected the tour guide

[Jeff O'Neill]

anyway, so if you want some of that energy into your ears, you can go check us out over on Zero to. Well read. Really excited to see see that. And with that, let's take our first break and then we'll get into the the It Books for July.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Audiobook Narrator]

a lot

[Jeff O'Neill]

of nice feedback on the play in debut novel, so we're going to run that back.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Great.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Had some requests. I got them. I was looking a little too late after I got back to do a non fiction version. It feels like maybe two plans a little too much. I'm not really sure. Maybe I'll alternate based on what's interesting. I do like the debut because it gives some shine to books that sometimes we're not going to talk about that much. But then my My pick for department. Excuse me. Seek immediate Shelter Coming up. Roses by Vincent Yu I don't think I included that here. I Think that made it. It was in before the play in. But sometimes one of these pops every now and again. And I think I've got a couple here for this plan that we're gonna do. If this is your first time listening to IT books, here's how it goes. We are looking to predict what the it book of the month will be. This book being a special alchemal blend of books, buzz and critical acclaim. And people are talking about it and it's all selling pretty well. You might be wondering if this is your first time, why there's not going to be say something that will clearly be the bestselling book of the month. Maybe you know, if there's a new Daniel Silver, James Patterson or a huge romantasy title. That's not where sales. We cannot do it books on sales alone. I think I'm getting that right. That's the paraphrase from Shakespeare. And then we also need a couple other things going at the same time. So for example, right now I think I was arguing making the case for declaring my own opinion that yesteryear is the it book of the year so far. And that's a combination of sales. I don't. Not sure really critical acclaim, but people are certainly talking about it. So you really need at least two, Rebecca, wouldn't you say? Preferably four, but two. At least two of these.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You need at least two. You can go further if you're going to get like best books of the year list status or we think you might get onto some award nominations. But people are talking about it and it's selling and at least some people think that it's good. Those. Those help you. I can confirm from a friend who has access to BookScan data that yesteryear is the best selling new work of fiction this year so far. I mean it would have to be about 370,000 copies.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, yeah. Still being outsold by Theo of Golden and the Correspondent from last year. But I think by the time I'd be curious to see by the time that rolls around because it is now, I think it's approaching sort of that crawdads escape velocity where it's gotten out of the book world. It's got into like the early adopters, like the kind of the big middle of book clubs. Now will people who don't usually read a book, will they sort of hear enough about it that they want to pick it up? Is it good enough? I will say this as a preview. I think it turns pages well enough.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And that is not a I would say an estimation of its quality. I'll hold that in abeyance for now, but the pages move, Rebecca, so I think that matters in looking at this of the year. All right, here we go. Debut novels. We have three of them. One of them will survive, so we're not going to pit them one against each other. Rebecca, I'll just get you all through all three and then you can decide which of them you would like to get through. This one I've had my eye on for a while. It's called A Real Animal by Emily Emmaline Atwood, I believe. Does this cross your radar at all? Have you heard of it?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes, I've seen it come up a couple of times, but I think really only in the context of snagging on the name Atwood and wondering, is there a relation which I don't know. I have not Googled that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, I don't believe so. This person is an American from Massachusetts.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's at least not disclosed. The nepotish is kept on the DL here, if it exists. But I think people are looking for the Emma Klein, the Girl sort of summer book that is, you know, about a woman in her 20s, is a novel. It's coming out July 7, so it'll be out next week. In which this. It's that decade between college and whatever comes next. Right. Like this is the mess, the long. The long decade of the 20s, the quarter life moment. And she's got romantic relationships. She's moving from Texas to another place and she's doing some stuff. She gets into some trouble, it sounds like, and there's a bit of suspense. So I'm not. I don't know what the plot is. I'm not trying to be coy here. They're being very cool. At least the synopsis I'm reading is pretty oblique about what's actually happening. But she's a woman moving across the country trying to figure some things out. And it sounds like it's there's a darker secret or she may not be who she says he is.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm not sure the COVID I think, matters. It looks like a dog or a bull about to charge this woman in the fog in the distance. So I don't know. It sounds like she has a good time in the sack, but also has had some bad experiences. So I think she's wrestling with her own sexuality.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What it means a Real animal might also refer to that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes. So I don't know. I've heard a lot of buzz about it. It's Gotten some early reviews that I find interesting. So there's one. A real animal. I am lying Atwood is the first one up for you. The second one is Make Nice by Ryan Fgen. This is one of our favorite kinds of things. This is Knopf. It comes out July 14th. It is getting the band back together. Sandwich meets the Wedding People, a comedy of manners as three generations of a family descend on a ritzy Lake Michigan vacation island. So this grand hotel, they're getting together shenanigans. And shenanigans are going to happen. Maybe a little bit of crazy rich Asians, but for people in the up in Michigan, I'm not really sure the reviews have been good. I think this kind of thing can work in the summertime. I also think that it's Knopf. I also may be more interested than. It's just sort of a kind of a regular, not disposable, but light summary. I think there might be something else going on here.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Something a little more substantial. Yeah, that sounds like it's in the vein of Seating Arrangements maybe by Maggie Shipstead, which I really loved and is one of the more elevated versions of the get the family all together. Watch the drama happen over the course of a wedding weekend.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's a fine line between, like, J. Courtney Sullivan and Maggie Shipstead, but there is one there. Like, it's a little bit different. And this is a fine line. I haven't read this one, so I don't know, but it feels like it's right in that genre.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And I love a J. Courtney Sullivan novel, too.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I do, too. It's no shade. I'm just saying, like, yeah, there's a difference there. This, the big blur bonnet is Ellen Hildenbrand. So maybe it reads a little bit more.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

A little more. They're trying to market it to that commercial audience.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. So anyway, so that's Make Nice by Ryan Fgen. And the last One is the Simp by Roshan Ethy Sethi. Excuse me. This comes out July 7th. This is Simon and Schuster, a razor sharp novel about the rise and fall of an unemployed actor who lands the greatest role of his life when he's hired as a personal assistant to an absurd Hollywood family. So I've seen actually a couple books coming out about this sort of position of like the house manager in a rich household. I actually think I saw a thing in Forbes like a real profile of someone who does this. The, you know, the conductor, the maitre d of a life. So not something above an executive assistant, but also not A life coach or an accountant. Like a hall. Like a Hollywood actor or stars manager but for regular people. But these again are a Hollywood family menial responsibilities. I think there's a class dynamic going on at the same times an absurdist walk through a landmine of affluent domestic chaos. Sounds identity Pollux and petty Angelino grievances. I just think that sounds like fun. And then the subtitle is A novel without a hero. So that's interesting. The author himself is the co creator of the Residents Resident which was a TV show on. Oh yes, he's been a director. Yeah. And a lot of other kinds of things. He has another film coming out called the Surgeon and this is a debut novel. So I'm also very interested in people coming across. I will caught my eye. This is someone who knows the Hollywood world. This is not a writer trying to write about Hollywood. This is a Hollywood person doing writerly things to like talk about it. Also a very interesting cover which is a pool in the shape of a head and it's like this weird orange background. I don't know what the comp is going to be but I look at that with great interest. So those are your choices, Rebecca. Okay, the simp, Make Nice and a real animal. Which of those would you like to enter into the main event here?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I am going to go with Make Nice I think just sounds like my platonic ideal of a summer novel. Those kinds of novels can get some traction. Sandwich, since it's one of the comps got a lot of traction that summer that it came out. People like to read this kind of stuff on the beach. I've seen that one going around. I've seen a real animal floating around. I had seen the COVID of the simp but I didn't know what it was about. I think that's an excellent title, like very.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's a good title.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's a really good I want to know what that book is about kind of title. But I think these, they seem pretty equal in terms of like buzz potential. They all seem like they maybe have some book club potential. So I'm just going to take the one that I'm personally most interested in for this.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's fine.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So we'll play in Make Nice.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Twere it just me, I think I would go with a real animal but. But I. But I've had that on my radar for quite some time because I had that early girls, Emma Klein, they're looking for that. And that one, I can kind of see it now. Lightnings doesn't Usually strike twice in exactly the same genre and in. In a pretty specific kind of way. But we can see. Okay, so on to the main event in which Make Nice will be trying to survive as many rounds as it can. Up first. Yellow pine by Claire Vay Watkins. Out July 1st from Riverhead. Claire Vay Watkins. People may know her from Battleborn and Gold Flame. Gold Fame Citrus. I think that was the one that broke out the most. Gold Fame Citrus is a memory of it too. Has been on the radar for a while. She was a 5 under 35 honoree a while ago. This is a novel. The main character is Rose. And it's. It's like one of these where we were college maybe things, but then it didn't really work out and now we've met a long time later and both of them are changed. She's moved back. She's a single parent. And then what is this going to look like? So it's a. I don't know all the trope names. Rebecca for the romances. I don't think there's a capital R romance because we don't know if they're going to have a happy ever ending. But this is a. We had something a long time ago. Life has gotten complicated. We're living in the desert now. Can we make something out of this Claire VAY Watkins for me? I think one thing that's really great about her is she's pretty darkly funny, which leaven some of the, you know, sentimentality that can come with a later in life or a long separated love story. But that's Yellow Pine by Claire V. Watkins. I guess. Do you want to advance that or. Or with make nice. I'm so sorry to the debut sacrificial lamb status. But at least you're in the arena.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes, I'm definitely going to advance Yellow Pine. I love Claire VAY Watkins. She's such an interesting writer and she's out there writing stories in the American West. But like not western stories.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You get these sort of like people do weird stuff in the desert.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And Claire VAY Watkins has really tapped into that. I think if this were a romance, we'd be looking for the term second chance romance.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, thank you very much. I was reaching for it. I couldn't find it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But this is not a romance. At least not in the category romance kind of sense. I'm interested. She does such tangly relationships, just all varieties of interpersonal relationships. And her books are tangly and interesting and can be weird in a way that I find to be delightful but not, not so weird that they're inaccessible to I think a typical reader. She lives in, I think a sweet spot and I am glad to see her back. So yellow pine knocks out make nice for this round.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Up next, Julie Bunton's Famous Men, out July 14 from Random House. Her debut novel was a bit of a thing a while ago. Marlena, which was a finalist for the NBCC John Leonard Prize and was a best book of the year by a whole bunch of different places, including NPR and the Washington Post. This book is the main character. Her name is Will Miles. She is living in her tiny Michigan town. Big, big look for Michigan in this episode today where apparently there was a high school rumor about her which turned her into a bit of a pariah in her neighbor neighborhood. So she's been feeling. It's not clear how long it's been. I don't know if she's just graduated or it's been some time. Anyway, things aren't great for her living in this town. And she hears a rumor that maybe her father is not who she thought it was or wasn't and maybe it's a famous person living in New York City. And what if she went to go to try to chase him down, to get a little space, a little oxygen and to find some connectivity, something bigger than her little snow globe of a universe. A gripping novel about ambition, parents and children. All the ways women still pay for men's mistakes. That's Famous Men by Julie Bunton. Rebecca, what would you like to do here?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is tough. Claire Vay Watkins against Julie Bunton. I think I'm leaning Julie Bunton for book big book club potential. Okay, sounds a little book clubbier. But they both will be contenders for those like best of lists, maybe some award contention. They both have, as you said, for, for Julie Bunton, been nominated for major awards in the past. It just just a little bit of a spidey sense. This feels a little more summery and a little more crossover from mainstream and literary readers. To me. Clairvoy Watkins has stayed in the a more literary zone in my estimation. So Famous Men by Julie Bunton.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We're going for a little troika here in sort of the lit girl. You know, we've had a couple younger authors who have one or two books in and the last of this, this trilogy we're going to see is Helpless by Jessica Knoll, which comes out, I'm sorry, this is saying April 6, 2027 now. So I don't know how this got on my list. I was just double checking. So we're gonna save that for about nine months. Rebecca, we're putting that on the shelf. I will bring. I will bring in. I had a pinch hitter, so I'll bring this in now. Oh, oh, wait.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No, it is. That's the paperback in April. It's coming out in hardcover on July.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Everything's fine. I did it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You were right the first time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know what Edelweiss is doing to me because I clicked on something else and it was a different link.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I saw banners for Helpless at ala. I was like, that has to be.

[Jeff O'Neill]

There you go. All right. So we have a sexy new thriller. Luckiest Girl Alive has been turned into a movie. And then Bright Young Women sold a bunch of copies a few years ago. This is another. It's been 12 years since X broke Wise Heart. But she was like feeling like giving herself too far too much to him, not really having her identity, so needed to break out of it. And now remarried kind of in a La La Land style where you have a Hollywood husband, but then they find themselves back on campus for the funeral. So a campus novel back for the funeral.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Put it in my veins.

[Jeff O'Neill]

There you go. I think I'm really looking forward to this one. I really thought Bright Young Woman was. It did exactly what it wanted to do, and there's something to be said for that. And I do like a campus novel. And it seems to me like it could be a little bit spikier than some of these other books that are kind of in this vein. So that's Helpless by Jessica Noel, which I definitely knew was coming out this month and not in April of 2027.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You got gaslit by Edelweiss.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's not your fault.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think I'm gonna take this one to progress.

[Audiobook Narrator]

The big.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We have not had the big thriller of the year yet.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, we have not.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

If that's going to happen, it usually happens in the summer. And maybe this is also just recency bias, because I did see this all over the place at ala but this sounds like really good potential. Thrillers do sometimes, at least when they have these sort of. This kind of subject matter, they can get selected for the big book clubs. So that's up there. Jessica Noel is no stranger to a best of list at the end of the year. Has a really good reputation. So I think we're going to go with her. My money's on that one for now.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yep. So for those of you who want to know, the title that is Helpless There. It's been a while since I had an occasion to put a graphic novel on here. But of course. Heartstopper number six, July 7, written and illustrated by Alice Osman, which is becoming enormous Netflix juggernaut. I believe this is supposed to be the last volume.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

In which Nick and Charlie. I think they're a year age indifference. I have not consumed any of this. My. My partner and daughter are very much into this. They've seen them all and I've heard them talk about it and it goes one ear and right out the other. But apparently one of them is getting ready to leave for college, the other one's trying to be head boy. Who are they going to be as they sort of launch out into the wider world? Is your understanding that this is a romance? Like, should I. Is that this. They're. They're gonna find at least there's gonna be a. We're gonna go the same college or.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, that's a good question. My understanding is that it's a love story, but it's a love story. Sure. It's a happily ever after romance. I don't know.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Shoot me an email podcastookriot.com if your understanding of this is that it's romance because it's. It's under adult young adult fiction, comics and graphic novels in the bisac. But I also can put romance into the same time. Like, I'm not really sure what's going on here, but a much beloved series coming to an end has broken out to be really more of a TV story and property than a huge story for Netflix, than a bookstory. But I offer this to you here as sort of an interesting crossover to pop culture because probably more people will consume this story than anything else we're going to talk about, just not in this form.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that the Internet might be more excited about Heartstopper and certainly because of the connection to the Netflix show, which I understand is not just popular but also good.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Which, yes, I've heard the same thing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Very always very happy to see that. When that happens, I think I'm gonna stick with Helpless by Jessica Noel in the knockout round just for ringing more of the bells of Zeitgeist award contention, the potential for really big sell, really big sales numbers. I do think Heartstopper will show up on best of lists it consistently has, or the past volumes consistently have. But I just feel like that big summer thriller with a feminist edgy twist is more likely to get some of the other kinds of attention that it takes to be a true it book. But I like, if I really want to find a way to make Heartstopper the book of the year, like, part of my soul just needs to do that.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Speaking of series coming to an end, up and comer Coulson Whiteheads.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Heard of him?

[Jeff O'Neill]

July 21, the final installment of, I think, what's being called the Harlem trilogy.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This one brings Ray Carney into the 80s. Ray Carney begins as a furniture salesperson who turns into a liminal figure in the New York underworld in the. In the 60s, into the 70s, and now into the 80s, bringing Whitehead's trilogy of New York stories and Harlem and black people in New York to my living lifetime, weirdly, and I think to probably Whitehead's own early memories of what New York is and what it was. I think it's really interesting that this is the timeline frame he's chosen to end with into the 80s. I don't really know why that would be, except maybe this is where it starts to intersect with his debut novel. Then to Initiates, which is a 90s book. Right. It's like 1999. So we get a good 10 year, 15 year there. Whitehead has been on this project for the last four or five years. I like everything Whitehead has done. A friend of mine who likes Whitehead had not entered into either of the Ray Carney books. And I said, oh, I think they're both great. At least do the first one. You'll know if you like it. The second one is kind of more of the same. You know, the only thing Whitehead could really do to surprises was to do three books in the same characters in the same world. Rebecca. So this ends this Coulson Whitehead era, but I have no sense of who is playing along with us in the Colson Whitehead Harlem trilogy. What do you make of Cool Machine, and what are you going to do with it here?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's such a good question because the third in a trilogy could be all kinds of things in terms of book sales. The buzz is already starting because, of course, it's a Colson Whitehead book. I don't know if you saw it since you were on vacation, but there was a big profile in the New Yorker. So points for you because I do believe you took this book in our fantasy draft. I think we're going to see this on the best of lists. I don't know about awards contention because I think people love Colson Whitehead, but he's already got a couple National Book Awards, a Pulitzer. Are they going to go for it for the third in a crime series? I'M not sure. Not gonna get book club selections. Like, nobody's taking this as their, you know, read with Jenna pick. And it is like Whitehead, because by virtue of being literary and, like, pretty literary at that, remains just more niche than some of the other kinds of titles that make the IT books. So I can't believe I'm gonna put someone ahead of Colson Whitehead in an it book.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think it. It's it. Interesting question, because I picked it in the IT book. Excuse me, the fantasy league draft under. I'm calling it the Return of the King phenomenon, in which the last movie in a series sometimes is the beneficiary of the accrued admiration sales. You know what? Let's just do it this time. I'm also bringing that energy to the last Dune movie that I think will have some play at the Academy Awards and that maybe people forgot. Oh, it's CW Maybe I'll pick this one up. It's been a while. He is now. I wouldn't say an elder statesman, but he is a banner carrier for books and reading and literary writing in America and an early acolyte of genre literariness. And this is the culmination of this. And really, the big way he's done almost all the big genres, has not done a romance. I was thinking about what Colson Whitewood might be next.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Walter Mosley did a romance earlier this year that I keep meaning to get to. And it made me also think about, who else do I want.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Want to see?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I want just a love story. None of the Whiteheads are really. I mean, Underground Railroad, which we're going to do, is a little bit of that. It has a love story in it, but it's not principally a love story, I should say, but I'd very much like to see that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

A Colson Whitehead romance or like a Percival Everett romance.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Those.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

These guys. An Ishiguru romance. Like these guys who play with genre so creatively, but that is a genre that we. We don't really get to see them touch very often. It'd be so exciting. Okay, so in our discussion about the Return of the King phenomenon, are you trying to nudge me into Colson Whitehead over Jessica Noel for this?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm not trying to nudge you anywhere because I like you. I'm not sure what to make of the third and the like. The difference, of course, is Return of the King did unbelievable box office. A cultural phenomenon. You cannot say that about the Harlem trilogy. I think even people like us, we're kind of used to it. It Feels a little not. It is familiar. This is the third of the series and it's not a big epic. The stories are connected, but it's not like what's gonna happen to X. Like each one of them is relatively self connected.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I don't have any data to back this up, but I also have a spidey sense that there are some folks in the Whitehead hive who are just like waiting for him to be done with this trilogy and go back to doing the kinds of things that they're used to seeing Colson Whitehead do. So maybe these are less popular than some of the other things that he's done. So I do think I'm in a ride with Jessica Noel and helpless into the next round. But I was like, I cannot believe that someone is passing Colson Whitehead in this. I need to. I'm just going to breathe here for a minute.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's okay. That's okay. You'll have some chances if you're not comfortable with what you have here. There's a few more that are interesting.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It wouldn't be the first time I have retracted a selection.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Up next is the debut novel with the second book from an author I really liked. Shannon Sanders Co. Her debut short story collection came out a few years ago. Sitting in around the academic world of black Washington D.C. this book is called the Great Wherever comes out July 7th from Henry Holt. The main character is. Apparently has a broken heart. I don't know exactly why, but she. Her father passes away and she inherits his Tennessee farm. And it's rich in family history. But also apparently ghosts who are gossips. They're gossips.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That is some George Saunders stuff right there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And she's maybe thinking of trying to sell the farm, but the ghosts don't want her to sell and so they get involved. I'm not sure how this is going to play. It made me think a little bit. What was the Monica Brashear's book that we both really liked a little while ago?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh gosh. What was that called? House.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, House of Cotton. Thank you very much. In which the southern gothic ghost story is turned on its head a little bit to be a little more haunted mansion from Disneyland or a little a little stranger than scary. I'm. This is not what I expected Shannon Sanders to do. Her. Her short story collection was very grounded in reality. It to the point where each story was someone coming to visit or moving into a different location. Like very MFA program. Not in a bad way but like very grounded, very specific. Pretty controlled. This one sounds like a Real ambitious because I don't know the tonality. I don't have a comp in my mind, which is very exciting for me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, this is an interesting swing. It will either be great or like, it just won't work at all. Those kinds of things. Yeah, these kinds of things don't really land in the middle. I think it sounds really interesting. A lot of dominoes would have to fall in the right way for a book like this to surpass something like Helpless by Jessica Noel. So I will continue with Helpless. But like, if these gossipy ghosts are executed well and people like it, there's, there is real potential for this to do. Best of lists, maybe some award nominations because I remember Company really had like strong notices. And this is. I love to see a writer do this. What an interesting, surprising direction to take. And that makes me curious about what the whole career will be like for. For her.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, up next, July 7th Random House. This. You and I are relatively late attendance at the Church of Daniel Mason. But I think he quickly with north woods, ascended to the upper ranks of writers. We are interested in their craft and what they're going to do. His new book, country people, is out July 7th. 320 pages a year in the life of a family as they strike out into the unknown, AKA Vermont, leaving all the comforts of home behind. So it sounds to me like last week you did. So what can you say? What, what can you fill me in on here?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean, first of all, it's great.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. This family move from the west coast to California or to, from the west coast to Vermont. The woman in the couple taking a job at a university, and the husband, they're Both in their mid-40s. Has been working on his dissertation for 14 years and he has had about that many subjects for it. So it's like, is it going to be Russian folk tales? Is it going to be this thing in folk tales? Is it going to be this other thing? He just like, can't get himself together. So they, they think they're going for maybe just a year while the wife is doing her visiting professor thing. They rent this ramshackle old house in southern Vermont, in the country he is supposed to be taking the time to finish his dissertation.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sure.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But instead he's getting into like everything except finishing his dissertation. He's making friends with the guy down the street who's running an orchard. He's making friends with the, like, former Olympian who teaches the kids skiing lessons. He falls in with this like, zany group of local people. That are maybe conspiracy theorists about the earth being hollow and. And they have local meetings where they present geological data in scare quotes around this. But just a really wild cast of characters. What it really is, is Daniel Mason doing a fairy tale. The narrative voice of the story feels like the narrator of a fairy tale. And then we sweep into this place and it happens. And the tone is so well done. It felt so magical to me. And maybe in my top couple. This is in my top couple for best novels of the year so far. I don't know where we're gonna shake out at the end of the year. It's hard to imagine it getting knocked too far down the list. But just the story is compelling, but you're really there for like these zany characters.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Craftsmanship and subject and strangeness.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The writing, just the writing. And it's like, what a pleasant surprise. I didn't know that he could surprise me twice that when I picked up Northwoods and was like, I think he's in that list of writers where the blurbs just can't possibly contain what he's actually doing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, there'll be some trees, but other than that, you really don't know what you're in for.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The blurb for Northwoods was like centuries of the life of this one house. And like, that's true, but that's also not what's going on there. And the way that he's sort of moving the camera around this house over time and north or country people feels like he's working in a similar mode where. What if I told the kind of story like I've read a million books like this that were straight ahead of family moves like fish out of upper

[Jeff O'Neill]

middle class academics move to the country and they do that thing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, they do that thing and they get into trouble and maybe someone's having an affair and how are you going to make friends? And I'm disappointed because you haven't finished your dissertation and it's been 14 years and there's all these unspoken things. So there's all that happening and there's this Daniel Mason narration that this fairy tale, folktale kind of quality that's just wonderful. I just loved it so much. My little face.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So I think it's probably going to advance because it's like George Saunders and Annie Hartnett have a baby and you get Daniel Mason books. It's so strange.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it's going to advance. Now, is that like the savviest choice in terms of sales and maybe like big book club potential? No. Do I Care also.

[Audiobook Narrator]

No.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's Daniel.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, did. Did. Did Northwoods win any big awards? I don't remember.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

He was nominated for a bunch of big awards, but I don't believe it won any of them.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Because if this is as good as you say it is, there is a God. Northwoods was good. Daniel Mason.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You know what? Northwoods was out in the same year that James came out.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Ah, well, that was a tough beat for Northwoods. So I'm wondering if maybe there's people have a one in the chamber still for Daniel Mason.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I hope so. Like, there's real shine on this. I just found it to be delightful on every level. Like, you know that, like, bubbly, fizzy feeling that you get in the first couple pages of a book where you're like, oh, this is gonna be something great. And he just. He holds it the whole time and sticks the landing. I loved it so much.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm so excited. I'm so glad to hear this is good. I will be walking to pals a week from today and buying this with my meat hands when it comes out. So, yeah, I think so. Just quickly, I guess. No, let's save it for it. Book retrospective for the year to talk about what the books of the year or the contenders are. I am one of Motunui. On July 10, Mo you will board

[Rebecca Schinsky]

my boat and restore the heart of Te Fiti.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And here we go. The journey begins.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

See her light up the night in the sea. She calls me.

[Audiobook Narrator]

The ocean chose you.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let's go save the world.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Your back. Chosen one. Disney's Moana Boat's neck.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

His name is Heihei.

[Jeff O'Neill]

His name is yum Yum. When he goes in my tum tum. In theaters July 10th. Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With sleepscore, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions, and sleep duration. Then every morning, it combines these factors into an easy to understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from okay to very high. Know your sleep score with Apple Watch. IPhone 11 or later required.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Introducing Taco Bell's new jalapeno citrus salsa with bright citrus, real red jalapenos, guajillo chiles. Usually you add sauce to the food, but when the sauce is this good, the food is just there to get the sauce to your mouth. That rolled quesadilla, not a rolled quesadilla. Anymore. Now it's a sauce shovel. Taco Bell's Jalapeno Citrus Salsa get it with any item on the Cantina Chicken menu while it's here. The participating U.S. taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last contact store for availability. The only nonfiction on my list is up next. I will not be reading this book Much like I didn't read Annie Jacobson's earlier book Nuclear War, I will not be reading Biological War because I like to sleep at night. Rebecca Schinsky But I've heard nothing but glowing reviews for Annie Jacobson's reportage about first what would happen if there really were a nuclear war and this one being about biological war and they're using the same cover design. I think it's very much like this is a series. God knows what's going to be next from Annie Jacobson. How does Annie Jacobson like how many Ambien do you think she has to put into Crush up or like what's her meditation practice? She's either the world's calmest person or really living on the edge existentially day by day. So it could be a lab accident, a bio attack global pandemic. Too soon. Annie Jacobson I just want to say that at the same time new interviews with experts from around the world about how to happen it, what the worst situations could be, a tick tock roadmap to the hours, days and weeks following the recent biological agent. I don't even like saying those things out loud but this book will be talked about. The first one I think, I don't think it came out of nowhere but it was a bit of a slow build. But by the end of the year people are talking about nuclear war all the time. So I think her aware her profile was raised considerably then I'll be very curious to see what happens here. July 28432 pages from Dutton so a somber combatant to put against country people especially coming off your fizzy glowing red cheeked effusion about it. But an interesting, an interesting pairing here. Rebecca what would you make of this?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that what you said a few minutes ago about this, that you're sure it will be good but there's no way you're going to read it is pretty indicative of the mainstream response to a book like this because scary heavy downer like the news feels a lot like this stuff could happen any day now and like what can I do about it? So what is the point of knowing how awful it's going to Be in detail. A friend of mine has read this. Also loved Nuclear War. Said they were both, you know, bracing, like truly terrifying, but very, very good. So I think we will see this book on some of the serious best of lists, maybe some of the award nominations. But like I'm not gonna be clocking it on a bunch of pool chairs this summer.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, no.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, tough to be a good contender

[Jeff O'Neill]

for like Pulitzer for non.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes, absolutely.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The non fiction book prizes, that kind of things.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. So I'm, I think I'm going to carry on here with Daniel Mason and Country People. But this is a great nonfiction one to shout out.

[Jeff O'Neill]

A Pulitzer Prize finalist. Annie Jacobson was for the Pentagon's Brain and some other books. So like she has a big long list. If you have, if you or someone, your life came for just nuclear war, there is a big list there.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Anyway, so same. We got one more to do here. I do not believe I read Valeria Lucelli's earlier books. That got her a little bit of a profile. Did you read the Crowd? The Story of My Teeth and then Tell Me how it Ends. An essay in 40 questions.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

She's on that list of authors that I just perpetually keep meaning to get to.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, a MacArthur Fellowship under a belt. Two Los Angeles Times book Raise an American. I mean, I don't know what I'm doing here. So I think this is the one where I'm going to, to dive in and it's a road trip novel. It's a mother daughter novel. Road trip novel. A blurb by Tommy Orange on the front.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Ooh, what's it called?

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's called, I'm sorry, Beginning, middle, end. That may have gotten confused as being something about the synopsis. I was trying to do her most powerful and page turning novel yet. Careful out there with the blurbs. So this mother daughter go on a road trip in Sicily and they are trying to put their lives back together after something happens. They're reading out loud to each other, they're cooking, they're fighting, they're making up, doing mother daughter things. And then they also I guess look for history of where they came from, where their family's going from. And maybe there's some like mythical things happening. They're very light. I'm not sure if there's like a spec fix supernatural thing going on at the same time. I don't have much relation. I don't have any relationship to this author. But I was looking at previews for July. This kept coming up over and over again. I was remembering The Lost Children archive and Tell Me how it Ends are books. I just never. I just never picked them up. Rebecca. I don't know what to say. I never got to them. Here we are.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Yeah, same.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

There are so many books. And like, I think this coming out in July, which is a little bit of a slower publishing moment, is helpful for the likelihood of me getting to it. Probably not gonna knock out Daniel Mason, but Luiselli, certain content certainly does contend for awards. She makes it onto best of lists.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Would not be surprised to see that happen. She and Daniel Mason are probably equally unlikely to get, like, their Today show pick, but Daniel Mason is a little bit. Has a little bit more of an edge for something like that. Accessible.

[Jeff O'Neill]

What's. We've. We've kind of been circling this question about the Today show pick, the Jenna pick, the Reese pick. I am about ready to disregard those things. And I'll tell you why, you know.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They just don't seem. They seem to be a trailing indicator more than a leading indicator anymore. Like, does it matter that Terry Jones got picked by whoever she got picked by? I don't. Does yesterday. I don't really think it matters that much anymore.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I was just about to say, actually, the best track record this year so far for book club picks is Oprah, who has Tayari Jones, Douglas Stewart, and Maria Semple.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But again, for our purposes for the literary establishment, like, maybe they break, but I just don't know. I feel like those now are trailing indicators. They're much more trailing indicators. Like, we were going to talk about all those books anyway.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I do think they're.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We do this for a living.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But still, these book clubs are less important for bookiness than they used to be and certainly than they want to be now. And even to reflect that, we decreased the number of points and their proportional weight for book club selections in our fantasy draft up against things like award contention and the big best of lists that come with more acclaim around them. So I don't think it factors into my decision as much about it. Bookiness. Daniel Mason is going to win this month. In my heart and on this. This playoff.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That was my suspicion. I didn't even know you had read it, but just looking, I was like, I'm gonna be surprised if we get through this, and it's not Daniel Mason.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You were gone for two weeks, and I broke texting containment three times because there were major, like, there were major things. And I was like, I can't just be texting Jeff about Daniel Mason while he's on vacation. Cause I've already texted about these news things. So, you know, we try.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. It's interesting because like this may be a good pod for us to do in the future of Patreon is to look at the, like the last several years of the major book club picks. Like which one do we, where can we identify one that felt like it mattered? Terry Jones is going to be a thing without this. Right. Like Douglas Stewart had already won huge awards. Like Shuggie Bain and Young Mungo had done extremely well. You know, whatever. They're going to yesteryear maybe, maybe. But we were talking about that before we knew it got picked for an award like the Hook sold that particular kind of book. They're not really doing the discovery level things that they're doing anymore. And I actually don't think they, they certainly, even if they help some of the sales, I don't know that they do. Even if they do. If anything, they may be hindered those books chance for awards at the end of the year. Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

You know, I was thinking a similar thing looking at that Oprah Troika of Tayari Jones, Douglas Stewart and Maria Semple. And these are all serious writers who do literary work and have been nominated for awards in the past. And I think those three new books all deserve awards consideration for this year as well. But will the bodies that judge those awards take them less seriously? Because there's a book club stamp on the front too. Like, I, I, I don't know. I think the book clubs might be moving the needle if they're moving it at all on some of the debut novels that they select that otherwise like the average book sold less than 5,000 copies last, last year just all the way around. So if that's your baseline, but then read with Jenna picks you, you're probably going to sell more than that as a debut novelist. And it might be more important for those kinds of books just, just they, they get a sales record when they otherwise wouldn't have had one. Even if it doesn't break you out in a meaningful way.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, and you know, again, I'm 48 years old in jet lag. So like my memory is like really bad at this particular moment. But I'm having a hard time thinking of like a Reese pick or a Jenna pick or even an Oprah pick that was a debut novel that I can think of right now that then that was an accelerant or a catalyst to be something we can think of right now.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, the last time it happened was where the crawdads sing. And that was 20, not a debut.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And also maybe, maybe contraindicator for what we're caring about covering. If you listen to us talk about where the crawdads sing at the same time. So, like, I don't know. I. I am more interested in what sells because I do think there's a world in which I don't think the Correspondent or for sort of the you of golden, which are selling all the books right now. They just didn't pick those. They didn't like. We had these giant phenomenons without those things happening now, again, it's better to get picked by those things than to not. Because you can get a book deal and it helps in the marketing for the paperback and things in the future. But I'm just kind of feeling like there may be more. I think. Here's what I think. I think our sense of the books that are going to end up on the top hundred of the year for the New York Times and that we're going to like and that are going to be contenders for awards season are our radar is just as good as who is ever giving those to Jenna and. And Rhys and Oprah at this point. I don't think it helps us Bird Dog any of these.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think that's right. And our scores, yours and my score on the fantasy draft last year certainly bore that out. That we didn't win. Neither of us had the titles like Sharifah had the books that won the big awards, but we both scored a lot of points from identifying books that were going to appear on best of lists.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Maybe is there some way that you and I can just battle it out and leave Sharifah and you want to

[Rebecca Schinsky]

have like a sub bet? So we'll have the.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The main New York Times hundred.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Who can. We each will fill out a hundred and who gets the most right wins.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let's do it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's gonna be tough because there's a lot of non fiction that you and I aren't going to read on there. Probably biological war, frankly. So I gave that one to you for free. That's a tie. Which means I won because I brought it to us. So we don't have to do it at this point.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That one gets played in or we take it off the board.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, we take it off the. Would that be the play in Non Fiction of the Year?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No, I think Patrick Radden Keefe would be the play.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. There's no question about that. All right, so I haven't looked at it, but Would you like to bring up the IT book selection so far? I guess the five months that is not including June, where we are so far.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, yeah. So. Well, I mean, we can finish June because this is July that we're recording for.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Welcome back.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Good Lord.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So in January, we picked Vigil by George Saunders.

[Jeff O'Neill]

What were the other contenders? Can you just write?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. Oh, yeah, sure. We can do all 10. How to Commit a Post Colonial Murder by Nina McConaughey. Burn down Master's House by Clay Kane. Graceless Heart by Isabel Ibanez. Meet the Newmans by Katherine Niven. Two Women Living Together by Kim Hana and Wong Su. Missing Sam by Thriti Umragar. Just Watch Me by Lior Torenberg. Football by Chuck Klosterman. Half his age by Jeanette McCurdy. And Vigil by George Saunders. And we went with Vigil.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Do you think that was right?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I do think so. I saw Vigil on some of the mid year, you know, best of so far lists, and I did not see half his age come up when I really did expect to. So I think Saunders, by virtue of being the goat, but also the reputation that he has, is gonna outlive that. I do. I think we got it right in January.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Boy, Meet the Newmans they were trying to make into a book. I haven't seen that anywhere. I completely forgot about that book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, that had a big mainstream book club selection.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yep.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

As further evidence. So February.

[Jeff O'Neill]

One for one so far.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, we're one for one so far. February, the Astral Library by Kate Quinn. This Is Not About Us by Allegra Goodman. Superfan by Jenny Zhang. So Old, so Young by Grant Ginder, Brawler by Lauren Groff On Morrison by Namwali Serpell. Young man in a Hurry by Gavin Newsom. Kin by Tayari Jones and the Jills by Karen Parkman. And we selected Kin by Tayari Jones.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That was easy. A layup. Got a breakaway cherry. Picked a dunk on that. Okay, cool.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Looking back at that list, I'm delighted by the fact that as I was reading through it, I had to pause on Morrison because Nambali Serpell has really gotten a lot of press.

[Jeff O'Neill]

She released a lot of press for him.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I. I do think we're going to see award nominations there, but yes. Kin by Tayari Jones for February. So we're two for two. March, the Beheading Game by Rebecca Lehman. A Far flung life by M.L. stedman. Whidbey by T. Kira Madden. Chain of Ideas by Ibram X Kendi Kids Wait Till youl Hear this by Liza Minnelli Sisters in Yellow by Miko Kawakami Python's Kiss by Louise Erdrich Lake Effect by Cynthia Da Presewini Son of Nobody by Yann Martell in the days of my youth I was told what it Means to be a Man by Tom Genode and the Keeper by Tana French and we selected Python's Kiss by Louise Erdrich.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, I don't know what to do with that month. I don't feel like it's Python's Kiss, but what would it be for us? It's the days of my youth. I was told what it would be to be for just you and me.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

If it's anything else on that list, it's Whidby by T. Kira Madden. That really did have a moment in March. I've been a little surprised not to see it on very many mid year check in lists. I don't know if maybe the shine on that just.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I wonder if that should have been a summer title to your earlier point about a summer thriller.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

100% should have been the summer thriller. So I. I don't know. Two and a half out of three

[Jeff O'Neill]

so far or TBD or Ty goes yeah, I don't know. It's null a null.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. April Go Gentle by Maria Semple We Burn so Bright by TJ Klune American Fantasy by Emma Straub Last Night in Brooklyn by Zoshito Gonzalez Yesteryear by Carol Claire Burke Transcription by Ben Lerner Livonia Chow Main by Abigail Savage Liu the Witch by Marie and Jai the ending writes Itself by Evelyn Clark Fame Sick by Lena Dunham and London Falling by Patrick Raden.

[Audiobook Narrator]

What a month.

[Jeff O'Neill]

What do we. What'd we pick?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We picked London Falling by Patrick Rattan

[Jeff O'Neill]

Keefe got that run wrong.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it should have been yesteryear got that one wrong.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay. Should have been but an easy but I'm okay to be wrong. I mean I am thrilled the book wasn't out yet with the book wasn't out yet. I had listened to London Falling so I was biased toward it and we were. I remember being nervous about the Go Simple. We talked about being nervous and excited and hoped it was good and I think it was better even than we thought it was going to be. So if we had red Go Simple I think we would have picked or Go Gentle.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Go simple also sounds like a Maria Semple time.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, it really does. If we had read Go Gentle like you had read Country People, I guess maybe we would have picked that would we pick that over London Falling.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think I probably would have. I would have. Because fiction is just more likely to go far.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But the PKR is like its own genre.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's true.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Maria Semple's not out there in J. Crew ads yet.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But that could happen. I think we. Yeah, we got it wrong.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It should be 2 for 3 with an abstention in March.

[Audiobook Narrator]

Okay.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. For May, the Calamity Club by Katherine Stockett. John of John by Douglas Stewart. The Things We Never Say by Elizabeth Strout. One Leg on Earth by Pemi Aguda. The Midnight Train by Matt Haig. The Land and Its People by David Sedaris. Seek Immediate Shelter by Vincent Yu. On Witness and Respair by Jesmyn Ward. Parade of Horribles by Matt Deniman and Mostly Hero by Anna Burns. And we picked John of John by Doug.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, good job. Us.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I think we got that one right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that's right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. And then for June, Voyagers by Meg Charlton, Ghost Die by Amitav Ghosh, Regime Change by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. I'll Take the Fire by Leila Slimani. Children of the Wild by Kevin Powers, the Typing lady by Ruth Ozeki. Rasputin Swims the Potomac by Ben Fountain, Land by Maggie o'. Farrell, Whistler by Ann Patchett. And the Sixth Nick by Daniel Krause. And we picked Whistler by Ann Patchett. It. And we were right.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And we were right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay, so four out of five. And one abstention.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And one abstention. Not bad.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I feel like. What were layups? I think Ken was the only real layup.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, Ken was an obvious one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

A couple of closer picks there. Maybe John of John. I don't know.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You hadn't read any Stewart at that point?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I had not. Yeah. So that was a tough call, but it was. Vibes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And there were other good contenders in May.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes.

[Audiobook Narrator]

Yes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Interesting to see. Seek Immediate Shelter by Vincent Yu in that list in May. He just won the Barnes and Noble Discover Prize for the best. We'll talk about it more on the news show. But for the best taste. All right. Four out of five. I feel pretty good.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Four out of five. Yeah. And the book of the year so far is Yesteryear, and it's not particularly close at this point in terms of award season. I'm looking at Ken. I'm looking at John and John's.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm looking at Maria Semple, too.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

I think

[Jeff O'Neill]

Daniel Mason might be too light.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

Maybe.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Maybe too light. Ben Lerner again Ben Lerner.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Ben Lerner will get nominated for some stuff.

[Jeff O'Neill]

What's your favorite book of the year so far?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Real runoff right now between John of John and country people.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Really? Okay. I'm surprised because you, you came out of. Was it March? Was Ken. You came out of that saying I can't. It's gonna be.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I loved Ken. It was really good. But Douglas Stewart just knocked my socks off. And Kin is wonderful and beautifully written and just more straightforward. So what Mason is doing with the narration and Country People just levels that up for me.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sick. Love it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What about you?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think transcription.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. You're a Ben learner guy.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm a little behind. I haven't done the Kin and I haven't done the Stuart and I haven't done the the Mason. So I think in the next couple week I will have ameliorated that situation. I think that'll be interesting to come up with. I think my favorite reading experience so far is an audio one. It's the Junode just talked about several times this point. I need to go back into it. Are we going to talk about the Claire in the sun trailer on Thursday?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes, we are.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We'll save that for that. I guess that's it. Rebecca, you can find the show notes book riot.com listen just an email [e-mail] go check out zero to well read US Constitution out now. And if you want to join the Patreon you can hear our pre lecture pod on how to get ready to read the Odyssey, which I think was maybe even more fun to do than the full on Odyssey episode. I don't know why. Maybe we'd been recording for so long at that point. It reminded me of the old teaching days even more than zero the regular episodes. But that was also a lot of fun at the same time.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And if you want to hear us talk about yesteryear, you can join the Book Rio podcast.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes, that'll be at the end of this week. We'll try to keep that to four to six hours.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Vanessa will be joining us for that. I'm not sure if you knew that since you were on.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't think I did know that, but I'm delighted to hear that. So all right. Rebecca, nice to see you again.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Welcome.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Thanks all for listening. We'll talk to you all later.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Thanks so much for listening today. Hope you enjoyed this audiobook excerpt from the Odyssey by Homer. Of course produced by our sponsors at

[Audiobook Narrator]

11 reader book one visit of Athena to Telemachus Tell me O Muse of that sagacious man, who, having overthrown the sacred town of Ilium, wandered far and visited the capitals of many nations, learned the customs of their dwellers, and endured great suffering on the deep. His life was oft in peril. As he labored to bring back his comrades to their homes, he saved them not, though earnestly he strove. They perished all through their own folly, for they banqueted madmen upon the oxen of the sun, the all o' er looking son, who cut them off from their return. O goddess, virgin child of Zeus, relate some part of this to me now. All the rest, as many as escaped the cruel doom of death. Death were at their homes, safe from the perils of the war and sea, while him alone, who pined to see his home and wife again, Calypso, queenly nymph, great among goddesses, detained within her spacious grot in hope that he might yet become her husband, even when the years brought round the time in which the gods decreed that he should reach again his dwelling place in Ithaca. Though he was with his friends, his toils were not yet ended. Of the gods all pitied him, save Poseidon, who pursued with wrath implacable the godlike chief Odysseus. Even to his native land among the Ethiopians was the God far off the Ethiopians, most remote of men, two tribes there are, one dwells beneath the rising one beneath the setting sun. He went to grace a hecatomb of beeves and lambs, and sat delighted at the feast. While in the palace of Olympian Zeus the other gods assembled, and to them the father of immortals and of men was speaking. To his mind arose the thought of that Aegisthus, whom the famous son of Agamemnon, prince Orestes, slew of him, he thought, and thus bespake the gods.

How strange it is that mortals blame the gods and say that we inflict the ills they bear, when they, by their own folly, and against the will of faith fate, bring sorrow on themselves. As late Aegisthus, unconstrained by fate, married the queen of Atreus son and slew the husband just returned from war. Yet well he knew the bitter penalty, for we warned him. We sent the herald Hermes, bidding him neither slay the chief nor woo his queen. For that Orestes, when he came to manhood and might claim his heritage, would take due vengeance for Atreides slain. So Hermes said. His prudent words moved not the purpose of Aegisthus, who now pays the forfeit of his many crimes.

At once Athena, the blue eyed goddess,

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

thus replied O father, son of Kronos, king of kings. Well he deserved his death. So perish all guilty of deeds like his. But I am grieved for sage Odysseus, that most wretched man, so long detained, repining and afar from those he loves, upon a distant isle girt by the waters of the central deep, a forest isle, where dwells a deity, the daughter of wise Atlas, him who knows the ocean to its utmost depths, and holds upright the lofty columns which divide the earth from heaven. The daughter there detains the unhappy chieftain, and with flattering words would win him to forget his Ithaca. Meanwhile, impatient to behold the smokes that rise from hearths in his own land, he pines, and willingly would die. Is not thy heart Olympian touched by this? And did he not pay grateful sacrifice to thee beside the argive fleet in the broad realm of Troy? Why then, O Zeus, art thou so wroth with him?

[Audiobook Narrator]

Then, answered cloud, compelling Zeus, my child,

what words have passed thy lips? Can I forget? Godlike Odysseus, who in gifts of mind excels all other men, and who has brought large offerings to the gods that dwell in heaven. Yet he who holds the earth in his embrace, Poseidon pursues him with perpetual hate, because of Polypheme the Cyclops, strong beyond all others of his giant race, whose eye Odysseus had put out. The nymph Thoosa brought him forth a daughter, she of forces ruling in the barren deep, and in the COVID of o' erhanging rocks she met with Poseidon. For this cause, the God who shakes the shores, although he slay him, not sends forth Odysseus, wandering far away from his own country. Let us now consult together and provide for his return. And Poseidon will lay by his wrath for vain it were for one like him to strive alone against, against the might of all the immortal gods.

And then the blue eyed Athena spake again.

[Podcast Guest or Contributor]

O father, son of Kronos, king of kings. If such the pleasure of the blessed gods, that now the wise Odysseus shall return to his own land, let us at once dispatch Hermes, our messenger, down to Ogygia, to the bright haired nymph, and make our steadfast purpose known to bring the sufferer Odysseus to his home. And I will haste to Ithaca and move his son, that with a resolute heart he call the long haired Greeks together, and forbid the excesses of the suitor train, who slay his flocks and slow paced beeves with crooked horns to Sparta. I will send him and the sands of Pylos to inquire for the return of his dear father, so a glorious fame shall gather round him in the eyes of men.

[Audiobook Narrator]

She spake and fastened underneath her feet the fair ambrosial golden sandals worn to bear her over ocean like the wind and o' er the boundless land. In hand she took, well tipped with trenchant brass, the mighty spear, heavy and huge and strong, with which she bears whole phalanxes of heroes to the earth when she, the daughter of a mighty sire, is angered. From the Olympian heights she plunged and stood among the men of Ithaca, just at the porch and threshold of their chief Odysseus. In her hand she bore the spear and seemed the stranger Mentes, he who led the Taphians. There, before the gate she found the haughty suitors. Some beguiled the time with draughts while sitting on the hides of beeves which they had slaughtered. Heralds were with them and busy menials, some who in the bowls tempered the wine with water, some who cleansed the tables with light sponges, and who set the banquet forth and carved the meats for all. Telemachus the godlike was the first to see the goddess as he sat among the crowd of suitors, sad at heart, and thought of his illustrious father, who might come and scatter those who filled his palace halls and win new honour and regain the rule over his own.