The It Books of June 2026

Summary

Book Riot – The Podcast

Episode: The It Books of June 2026

Hosts: Jeff O’Neal & Rebecca Schinsky
Date: June 3, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Jeff and Rebecca run their monthly, bracket-style showdown to determine June’s “It Book” — the one title they expect to dominate buzz, book clubs, reviews, and general reader excitement. The show also covers notable upcoming debuts, industry trends, book club appeal, translation, nonfiction, and the ever-fascinating tension between literary prestige and mass-market appeal. Along the way, they highlight the standouts in fiction and nonfiction, discuss trends in polyamorous representation, and laugh their way through debates about genre, awards, and covers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Podcast and Summer Programming Updates (00:41–03:32)

• Rebecca announces exciting guests on the Zero to Well Read feed, including Emily Wilson (on tackling intimidating classic books like The Odyssey) and Amanda Nelson (on the U.S. Constitution; 02:26).
• Book Riot hosts are soon heading into summer travel, so guest hosts and editorial stand-ins are expected in upcoming episodes.

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2. The Monthly “It Book” Bracket Structure (03:42–05:10)

Format:

• Jeff handpicks a shortlist of 12 upcoming releases.
• The first choice comes from three debut novels, with the “winner” then going head-to-head through the list in elimination style.
• Rebecca is the sole decider, with Jeff offering “sanctimoniously helpful” commentary.
  • "I will be unhelpfully yet sanctimoniously helpful in giving my opinion on her decisions..." — Jeff (00:59)

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3. Debut Showdown (08:01–17:56)

A. Cat Love by Tomas Q. Morin (Pantheon, June 9) [08:01]

• Literary dystopia narrated by a cat in Schrodinger’s box; philosophical, experimental, brief (224 pp.)
• “Not really sure what this is about, but I have not read a cat in a Schrodinger’s box narrating the end of the world before.” — Jeff (08:51)
• Rebecca: “Highfalutin, philosophically informed fiction. Probably not going to be going to like the read with Jenna book club, I’m guessing.” (09:26)

B. They Fall in Love at the End by Holly Blasingame (Scribner, out now) [09:41]

• Literary fiction, not romance, about a messy polyamorous love triangle among 24-year-olds
• Discussion on poly representation in mainstream fiction (11:10–15:19), noting the lack of “When Harry Met Sally” equivalents for open relationships:
  • “Is there a pop culture, mainstream culture representation of an open relationship that people can refer to...?” — Jeff (11:51)
  • “Most available example I have is at least a decade old with Big Love from HBO…” — Rebecca (12:12)

C. Voyagers by Meg Charlton (Harper, June 16) [15:19]

• High-concept, emotionally-driven sci-fi, compared to Station Eleven and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow.
• “A thrilling, original, and brilliant, ambitious literary debut about friendship at the end of the world.” — Rebecca (16:14)
• Rebecca selects Voyagers as the debut winner, citing publisher push and potent comps.
• “She gets to win the debut round here with Voyagers.” — Rebecca (16:45)

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4. Main Bracket: Heavy Hitters & Standouts

Amitav Ghosh’s Ghost Eye (FSG, June 16) [18:16]

• Literary novel blending reincarnation, memory, and environmental activism.
• Rebecca: “Maybe...if all other things are equal, I should lean towards the Amitav Ghosh here because...Voyagers just faces a tougher challenge.” (20:49)
• Ghost Eye advances.

Regime Change by Maggie Haberman & Jonathan Swan (Nonfiction, Penguin, June 18) [21:15]

• Reporting on Trump’s (hypothetical) second term, analysis of the appetite for “homework” Trump books.
• “I’m not lining up for the book that Maggie Haberman is writing about Trump’s first year in office...Not a big contender for like a four quadrant it book hit.” — Rebecca (22:45)
• Ghost Eye is favored due to reader fatigue with political reportage.

Leila Slimani’s I’ll Take the Fire (Penguin, June 9) [24:54]

• Literary autofiction: coming-of-age in 1980s–90s Morocco, possible queer narrative.
• Slimani’s literary credibility and awards potential tip the scale:
  • “She has a good track record...When you have awards potential...I think I’m a little lean towards Slimani here.” — Rebecca (26:24)
• I’ll Take the Fire advances.

Kevin Powers’ Children of the Wild (Little, Brown, June 16) [27:23]

• Literary historical fiction about WWI, Virginia, and war’s human costs.
• Rebecca: “Like a historical fiction about World War I by a dude. This is not World War II lady librarian spies, I think is a tougher seller for a mainstream reader.” (28:57)
• Slimani prevails for broader appeal and momentum.

Ruth Ozeki’s The Typing Lady and Other Fictions (Viking, June 2) [31:10]

• Short story (and “other fictions”) collection from a critically adored author.
• Both appreciate the collection's playful tone and experimental promise.
  • “I think Leila Slimani gets to carry the day again because...when you’ve had two novels that people really liked and then you’re putting out a collection of fictions, it’s just kind of a tide us over until the next thing.” — Rebecca (32:12)

Ben Fountain’s Rasputin Swims the Potomac (Ecco, June 9) [34:46]

• Satirical, hyperreal skewering of American politics featuring a pro-wrestler presidential candidate.
• “I am not that interested in reading about politics right now...There’s something about this that is piercing my bubble.” — Jeff (35:22)
• “Make it so weird that it is realistic is what Ben Fountain is great at...” — Rebecca (36:08)
• Fountain advances, expecting upcoming titles to knock it out.

Maggie O’Farrell’s Land (Knopf, June 2) [38:16]

• Literary historical fiction, Ireland 1865, father-son bond in a famine-wracked landscape.
• Strong critical and commercial prospects due to O’Farrell’s post-Hamnet status and book club/library appeal.
• “This is going to knock out Ben Fountain for sure...Maggie O’Farrell: always a contender, but a really, really strong one this month.” — Rebecca (39:44)

Ann Patchett’s Whistler (Knopf, June 2) [40:54]

• Upmarket literary, present-day, family secrets, sisterhood, and memory. Sold as a “horse book” but is much more human-focused.
• “It is lovely. It is not horse forward, as I think I told you in a text...But it’s. It is. I mean, it’s an Ann Patchett novel. Like, what do you want from me?” — Rebecca (44:43)
• Weighing Patchett vs. O’Farrell: Patchett’s more accessible, contemporary themes give her the edge for “It Book” of June, but O’Farrell could pull ahead in awards season.
  • “Ann Patchett is going to have an edge on O’Farrell this month as the month. But when we get to the end of the year, Maggie O’Farrell may win out because of award nomination juice.” — Rebecca (48:07)

Daniel Kraus’s The Sixth Nick (Saga Press, June 23) [48:41]

• High-concept, deeply speculative sci-fi; new release by the Pulitzer-winning author of Angel Down.
• Despite prestige, genre-forward approach and low mainstream buzz make Kraus an unlikely “It Book” winner against Patchett or O’Farrell.
  • “It’s gonna be Ann Patchett this month. There’s a new novel by a Pulitzer Prize winning author and I am not seeing a ton of marketing for it.” — Rebecca (49:47)
  • “You really don’t know what you’re getting with the next Daniel Kraus book.” — Jeff (53:27)
• Kraus seen as a genre innovator, but with a different, more female-coded subject and mainstream appeal, could compete more effectively.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Bracket:

• “This is a vibes-based process.” — Rebecca (26:24)
• “This is what everyone came to see. No do-overs, no second chances, no more Mr. Nice Guy. This is winner-take-all.” — Jeff (29:57)

On Polyamorous Representation:

• “There is still such a wide swath of the country...that for various reasons...might be opposed to...any representation of it anywhere. So somebody will break out with a great throuple novel at some point, but I really don’t know when that will be.” — Rebecca (13:56)

On Book Awards and Commercial Appeal:

• “It’s very difficult to write a book that reads that easily, but that is well written...Patchett will engage your thinking parts.” — Rebecca (47:09)
• “Ann Patchett is Ann Patchett. She’s been doing these kinds of books for 30 years at this point—like the living, breathing manifestation of an indie bookstore.” — Jeff (54:27)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Podcast updates & Summer preview: 00:41–03:32
• Bracket explanation: 03:42–05:10
• Debut Tournament: 08:01–17:56
• Amitav Ghosh vs. Meg Charlton: 18:16–21:15
• Trump Nonfiction Reflections: 21:15–24:03
• Leila Slimani’s rise: 24:54–29:57
• Ruth Ozeki & Short Fiction: 31:10–33:21
• Satire and Ben Fountain: 34:46–39:16
• Maggie O’Farrell’s Land: 39:16–40:54
• Ann Patchett’s Whistler (deep dive): 40:54–48:39
• Daniel Kraus, genre & awards: 48:41–56:43

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Final Result: June 2026 “It Book of the Month”

🏆 Ann Patchett’s Whistler

• Wins for its blend of accessible, contemporary themes, widespread book club/library appeal, and Patchett’s all-star status in both critical and commercial spheres.
• Maggie O’Farrell’s Land is a close runner-up, likely to garner more literary prize attention later in the year.

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Further Reading / Participation

• Full list of “It Books” picks available at Book Riot
• Current and historical picks available to Patreon supporters, with bonus content and ongoing book discussions.
• Email the hosts at [e-mail] with thoughts, missing pop culture references, or suggestions.

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Closing Sentiment:
“It’s summer reading season… so I hope everyone’s out there has got something for their pool, plane, or just porch — the three Ps of summer reading.” — Jeff (57:13)

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Transcript

[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc. This is the Book Riot Podcast. I am Jeff o' Neill and I'm

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Rebecca Schinsky and it's June.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Rebecca, First Tuesday of June. Big one new book release day. But more importantly for us, it's June IT books. I will tell a truth here as I move some things around for our list.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's been a while since we had a month where you needed to do that so that somebody wouldn't just run the board for the whole episode.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I don't think we need to do much preamble. I did select three debuts to do our mini tournament, our Play in tournament, which we'll do here at the beginning. If this is your first time joining us for the IT books differential, I have selected, well, I guess I've selected 12 books. The first spot will go to one of three debut novels. Then each subsequent book will go up head to head against the one that preceded it and Rebecca will decide which one survives. I will be unhelpfully yet sanctimoniously helpful in in giving my opinion on her decisions and deliberations there. At which point we crown the it book of the month. Let's see in the zero to well read feed right now we are talking about Maya Angelou's 1969 memoir I know why the Caged Bird Sings. Had a really good time talking about that. What else is coming up soon? I don't even remember what else we got that going on. You can check out. We're doing a read along as part of the Patreon for the Zero to well Read feed over there. And you can see Rebecca's done a really nice write up of what that's going to entail. I'll find a link to that and put in the show notes. Or you can just go over to the Zero to well Read Patreon. Rebecca, what else?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We have some friends joining us in the 0 to well read this summer. Emily Wilson will be on next week. She's talking with us about how to tackle big intimidating books, things like the Odyssey, but also just that category more broadly. And our friend and former coworker Amanda Nelson will be here closely closer to the 4th of July for a conversation about the United States Constitution. So lots of fun stuff happening over in Zero to well read. You and I will be here together next week for the pod and then we enter into summer travel for both work and family pleasure. So Vanessa will appear with me a little bit. Vanessa will appear without either of us and one of our other editors co hosting with her later in the month. Just the whole Book Riot crew gathering around to keep the the ship afloat while you and the family head out on some vacation. And I will be heading to the American Library association conference at the end of the month. So if you're going to be there, there you go. And you see me running around, you can wave and say hi. I'd love to meet people.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Terrific. Okay, let's do our first sponsor break and then we'll get into the debut of the debut play in section.

[Sponsor/Advertiser Voice]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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[Sponsor/Advertiser Voice]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

These I have not ordered because by the nature of debuts, there's really not a lot I know about these. I have picked these somewhat at random. I was going through catalogs and these are things that jumped out to me. I'll just pick one to start. Let's start with a June 9th on sale date. This book is called Cat Love by Tomas Q. Morin. It is coming out from an imprint and I don't know which one because Edelweiss individual card doesn't tell me. I'll find a minute here. Anyway, here that is. Yeah, here is the description. A contemporary dystopian elegy narrated by a cat imprisoned in a Schrodinger's box by a prize winning poet and memoirist whose writing cuts to the core with electrifying force. This is only 224 pages, so kind of a fable like experiment here. Notes from the Underground meets Kafka's the Burrow. An erudite cat in literature narrating this funny moving meditation on life, pop culture and love. So there you go. I not really sure what this is about, but I have not read a cat in a Schrodinger's box narrating the end of the world before. So I present it to you as our first debut. That's it. Book selection.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Highfalutin, philosophically informed fiction. Probably not going to be going to like the read with Jenna book club, I'm guessing. No, but I appreciate the level the like the deep, deep level of nerdery involved there.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh my God. What imprint is this? I have so I have the. My Edelweiss links and the way Edelweiss is set up right now I can't get back to the publisher catalog. Oh, this is Pantheon. There we go. Okay, thank you very much. Pantheon, Edelweiss. No thanks to you for that one. I'm sorry, this, this is ridiculous. Okay, up next we are going to they Fall in Love at the End, a novel by Holly Blasing Game. This is out now from Scribner. It's fiction. Cat St. Clair. Did you see what I did there? Is ready for her messy love triangle era now that she's in an open relationship. But she didn't foresee a forbidden love triangle with the only two people who are off limits. Her boyfriend's best friend and his girlfriend. Messy fall of 2024 or 24 year olds. So this is a modern relationship book. It is not categorized as romance. Okay, so do with that what you will. It is categorized as literary fiction. So I do not think we should be thinking about happy ever afters or happy for now. They could happen. But you are not guaranteed this. Yes, at the end of your 384 pages, art, politics, love and true liberation may take more than rewriting the old scripts. It may mean inventing something entirely new. Rebecca, what's your. What's your appetite for reading about 24 year olds making the same old mistakes, but in different ways?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It could be interesting. I wonder how sad this author is that her book didn't come out at the same time that Lindy West's memoir came out and we had all those headlines about folks trying to navigate poly relationships. There was a big novel last year or the year before that also dealt with this. A couple bringing in a third partner. I mean people write about this all the time, part of modern relationships. But it's still, I think, breaking into mainstream fiction. So we'll be interesting to see what the response is how a book that deals with something that is still perceived as pretty edgy by a lot of the country will be received by readers.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's an interesting point. Is there a pop culture, mainstream culture representation of an open relationship that people can refer to like. I'm sure there's in like dating shows, reality television, but there isn't like a When Harry Met Sally of this or something like, oh, that's a good. This is not something that's been integrated into even, I don't know, mainstream, I mean, art of any kind as I can.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Most available example I have is at least a decade old with Big Love from hbo. And that wasn't exactly like. That was not a mainstream style really relationship. Those people are from a Mormon sect. So it's inflected with all sorts of other stuff. I, I don't know. I don't think that we've seen it. Has there been. Oh well, challengers. The, the big film.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I did not see that. How did that go? So that. Is that having an open relationship?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No, it's not. It's a love triangle maybe with some overtones of like, could it be Will they will like. I mean it's Zendaya and two good looking guys. So who's not rooting for that in the end was not an open relationship story. I don't think that we've seen like a true mainstream version of that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Now that I'm going into my bag here. 2001American film. Do you know the. The movie Bandits starring Cate Blanchett, Billy Bob Thornton and Bruce Willis? Does this mean anything to you? No, my memory, I'm going by memory now, is that it's a crime novel. Like they're a crew.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But spoiler alert for a 25 year old movie no one's ever heard of is that they actually, I think at the end they end up in a three way relationship. Oh, it's like, well, okay, I, I don't know, maybe Bruce Willis and Billy Bob Thornton, like come on alternate Thursdays or something like that. Like literally and figuratively. Oh, I should get that in there.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

A lot of calendar invites involved, but

[Jeff O'Neill]

they had an agreement that there was going to be no, there's a rotation, there's a, there's some kind of sharing that's happening. And I remember seeing this in the film in the theater being like, wait, what that? Is that something? That one I don't understand. Like, that's a long time ago.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, yeah, that is a long time ago. That would have been very edgy in 2001. I think it's, I mean, really interesting like that. You know, open relationships get like written about at the New York Times now. It's a pretty known phenomenon. But there is still as, as we were talking about at the top of the segment, like still such a wide swath of the country that is politically conservative, religiously conservative, that have for various reasons might be opposed to not just doing that in their own relationship. I don't care what you do in your own relationship, but to any representation of it anywhere. So somebody will break out with a great throuple novel at some point. But I really don't know how to guess when that will be.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, I don't. I don't know either. I mean, anyway, that, that's how deep we have to go back. Shoot us an email podcastocrat.com if we're missing something super obvious or not obvious that there are representations out there. I would like them to be played for something other than oh my, like challengers. It's like supposed to be provocative, whereas Bandit sort of wasn't at the end. It was like the end, like the last five minutes. Like, can we do this? I guess so. Okay, fine. It was very weirdly underplayed, which I guess I like.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that's why I keep using the word mainstream like we were. We have not yet reached a place where like it's just another form of relationship that media captures and represents.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right. The last one I have for you, Rebecca, is Voyagers by Meg Charlton comes out June 16th from Harper. This is. Let's See did it Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow is the comp here. Well, a mysterious transmission pulses from the edge of the solar system. The world changes overnight. Planes are grounded, satellites fall and speculation abounds. With many believing this could be the first contact with extraterrestrial life. But for Alex, a 30something lawyer who spent years distanced from the unexplainable, the signal feels deeply personable. The opening of own wound. He and a girl decades ago disappeared. And then this maybe has something to do with it. It is. This is what got me rolling on this. The computer, Station 11 and the Ministry of Time.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Fascinating Voyagers.

[Jeff O'Neill]

A thrilling originally and brilliant, ambitious literary debut debut about friendship at the end of the world. 320 pages. That's all I know.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I mean that's going to take this round by a lot. I've seen a lot of marketing for this, so I do think the publisher is positioning it to get a lot of attention. Station 11 for the end of the world vibes. Literary end of the world vibes. Plus Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow for the friendship vibes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I got distracted by how many tomorrows I needed to say.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I know you just keep. It's like how many ends are in banana? Like you really don't know when to stop.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But that's. Those are potent comp titles and you got to be careful out there. Like if a book can even come close to feeling like Station 11, that would be great news for me as a reader. I think if a book can come close to feeling like Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, that's a great news for a ton of readers who love loved that book. I think we both came in at like a BB plus on Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow and we were in the minority there. Most people who read it liked it more than. Even more than we did. So good luck to Meg Charlton entering into this. But she gets to win the debut round here with Voyagers.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I also like that Meg's bio in Edelweiss at least is just. Meg Charlton lives in New York City. Voyages is her first novel. That's. I love that. Know how many MFAs and that you were a tin house. Whatever. Those are all great things. But there's something I really like about Just put it right on the tin there. So Voyagers is going to be our winner. Let us know if you like that version of Debut. I was also thinking about a nonfiction version of this. So rarely does nonfiction make it, but there's always nonfiction I want to shout out so we can consider that in the future as well.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I will say I slotted in an episode for the fall where we highlight the debuts we're looking forward to for the whole season. So we might, we might think about just baby highlighting debuts and nonfiction. The things that we're not talking about as regularly or that don't get as much bookish press.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. All in a tranche at some time. Okay, we're on to the main event here. Up first From FSG on June 16th is Amitav Ghosh's Ghost Eye. Amitav Ghosh is the author. Probably people know Sea of Poppies, river of Smoke. Then there's some other things, but I think Sea of Poppies was the big one. It was shortlisted for the Man Booker Prize. This book is 336 pages categorized as literary Varsha Gupta wants fish for lunch. Her family is shocked. The three year old has never tasted fish in her life. They're strict vegetarians. But Varsha claims she can remember another life in a mud house by a river where she caught and cooked fish with a different mother. This then gets them talking to psychologists and other kinds of people. And then Varsha's case is later brought up five decades later by a group of environmental activists. And there's something else going on there. So it sounds like spec fic that's maybe specific. Like the question is, is something actually happening here? Is there something else going on? I also say this cover is amazing. It's like a half of a watercolor iris against a real really just beige background. I think it looks very cool. I like Sea of Poppies. I'm I also have in the back of my head, do not forget some of the sort of book club favorites from five or six years ago. I'm thinking of the Robbie Amalamideen, which I read in the fall. The true, true story. Like people love these books. They remember them more than I think they do. So I proffer that to you here. Rebecca.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I was doing that same math in my head just now because I think that Voyagers on its Face sounds more like it has it book potential with those comp titles and like that's the kind of story that a book club might want to grab. But Gauche has been a favorite of book clubs in the past. Yes, it's hard to account for how much value there is, but we saw this also last year with the Loneliness of Sonja and Sunny, that It had been 20 years since there since Kieran Desai's last book. But folks were still waiting and still Covenant of Water.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It was like 15 years since cutting for stone. Like we now have enough data here. There's enough data points to draw a line that people the north remembers for all my Game of Thrones fans out there. But the book clubs remember Catherine Stockett selling calamity clubs, doing pretty well. That. I guess that's, that's something we should consider just in general that people do remember even many years later.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think so. And you know, it's just harder to make a debut novel a success than it is anything else. So maybe for if all other things are equal, I should lean towards the Amitav Ghosh here because it, you know, Voyagers just faces a tougher challenge. Being a debut novel in a, in the middle of a summer, that's a pretty packed field of big names. So maybe even more difficult to break out than in some other months or other years. So we'll carry Ghost Die forward.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that's right. Up next, the lone nonfiction inclusion in this month's IT Books. And I've got a lot of questions about it on a lot of levels, but it's Regime Change Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. This is the sum of their reporting on the first year of Trump's second presidency. I don't think I need to tell anybody about Haberman and Swan at this point. Some of the great reporters that have been covering the White House inside and out. Unusual access. 496 pages. I've got several questions about this, one of which is what's the appetite for a Trump book that is not Yay, Trump. Sort of marketed from one of those imprints, right? Or a Trump sucks, Mary Trump, whatever. You know, this is reportage. Like they're gonna have a take and they're gonna do and they'll tell the truth as best they understand it, but it is not going to be a slash and burn. And look how bad these people are. They're reporting. That's what they're doing. For better or worse. I don't really care what other people think about that. I think it's valuable. I think we need one of these. I need, we need this kind of work to be done, I guess. So those, those questions. I have the bigger question outside of this very unusual to have a retrospective about just one year in a presidency, though we're in unprecedented time. So I don't know. Rebecca, what do you make of this book and this moment and what's your own spidey sense of appetite and interest in a book like this right now?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I am with you. I think it's important that book books like this exist as records. I read Haberman's previous book about Trump, Confidence man, but that was more of a, not quite a biography, but it really like told the story of most of his public career. She's been acquainted with him for decades because she's been writing about him for decades as a reporter. And it was interesting, but I will say that it felt like doing home me like she's a good writer. So it's not about the quality of the writing, but that felt like homework to me. I'm not lining up for the book that Maggie Haberman is writing about Trump's first year in office. It really does say something about how packed they expect this term to be. Will there be books 2, 3 and 4 as well? Who knows? I don't think that there is a lot like it's enough to keep up with the daily news cycle, much less to go back and review the things that happened in the first year by the time this book comes out. So I'm glad it exists. Maggie Haberman does great work, but I don't think this is gonna go many, like many places. She'll do a lot of interviews, there will be excerpts and like juicy stuff that maybe didn't make it into the original reporting or that we've all forgotten because so many other things have happened since then. But not a big contender for like a four quadrant it book hit. So Amitav Ghosh will carry on.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I saw, I don't know why. Maybe just to remind people that it's still happening. Someone there was a little social video of Robert Cairo talking about his, you know, his progress on the most recent volume of his LBJ and like he's working on it and his setup and all the things and I was like, how many Robert Caro's would you need to cover a Trump presidency? Because he's writing about LBJ 70 years later at this point and doing the mistake. We need a team of scrat. I hope there's some 17, 18 year old, he, she, them, whomever who in 20, 30 years is going to clone themselves because that technology was perfected to do Robert Cairo. But for Trump, because there's, there's going to be stories. It's going to be like the Trojan war, World War II. There's going to be stories for the rest of our lives about this stuff.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, you will need like 25 reporters and a trench coat.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You will, maybe, maybe that's the only use of AI to help you Outline and storyboard and do that stuff. I can get myself behind. Okay, so Ghost Eye has moved along. Gonna do a work in translation here. Out June 9th. Leila Slimani's I'll Take the Fire. So Slimani, she wrote the Perfect Nanny. Do you remember that book from a few years ago? It was a New York Times 10 Best Books of 2018 and was the first Moroccan woman to win France's most prestigious literary prize, the Goncourt. So this book is the main character. I know you'd be shocked. Yearns to be free, grows up in socially conserved Morocco. Her imagination is fired by her banker father's charisma and political idealism, her doctor mother's feminist example and social conscious and the boundless possibilities suggested by her favorite authors. She learns to go over what she wants. So it's like coming of age in the 80s and 90s in Morocco as a maybe queer, but certainly artistic and certainly coming out of an unusual background and where she's growing up. It looks to me like sort of auto fiction but from a really serious, interesting writer. I didn't know what to do with it. I thought it was very interesting. It made the New York Times novels will every everyone will be talking about 2026. That wasn't a huge list by the way. It is coming out from he knows quickly Penguin Books and it is, let's see, on sale next week, 368 pages. That's Leila Slimani's I'll Take the Fire.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Who. This is tough. I have seen a lot of compelling marketing for this and it was on a lot of those most anticipated lists. She has a good track record. The Perfect Nanny. I wasn't quite book club fodder. Like she's more literary than that. But that means that there is awards potential and when you have awards potential and most anticipated slash best books of the year so far kinds of potential. I think I'm a little lean towards Slimani here. It's just. It's mostly a spidey sense. But we say it up top. This is a Vibes based process.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know what kind of networking juice you get out of it, but she was the chair of the jury of the 2023 International Booker Prize. So she's well connected. People know about her. Ranked number two on Vanity Fair's annual list of the 50 most influential French people in the world. So that's not bad.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Making my case for me. Leila Slavani, come on down.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This book, I didn't know it was coming out until I was edelweissing my face off. And it's not very often when I didn't realize there was a finalist for the National Book Award has a new book out. But this is Kevin Powers as a new book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know. Did you know this?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I did know this. I'm very. I'm in the Kevin Powers hive.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes. Well, he's a rich. He's Richmondian. Is that how you say rich? Mandian. Rich man. That's probably Richmond. Dir. God. Nailed it the first time. Good job. Me. 320 pages. Kevin Powers, Yvette. His book the Yellow Birds is really. Was his calling card and was all over the place. This one is a. Another. There's a military angle here. It sounds like it is Virginia, 1917. And then over there in World War I, 1917, three people inter collective lives. I think what you come to Powers for is he's thinking about war, he's thinking about combat with a literary writer's eye. And he's interested in sort of the pillars of the Earth, things about love and sacrifice and what does it all mean? 328 pages, not a huge print run. Only 30,000, which I was a little surprised by. My sense is the Yellowbirds, even as light as it was, didn't sell like a house on fire. So I wasn't sure what to do with Children of the Wild by Kevin Powers.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Rebecca. I'm also not sure what to do with this. The Yellowbirds came out in the same year that several other books about the Iraq war came out. It was what Fobbit by David Abrams.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Was that Billy Flynn too?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk. Billy, Billy. Billy Flynn is the guy from Chicago.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, yeah, the razzle dazzle. Give him the old razzle dazzle.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Ok, that one mixed up too. There were several. There was like a whole crop of them in one year. And I think that Kevin Powers, like, he did lean more literary and there was less commercial juice around the Yellow Birds. And he's had a book of short stories out, I think since then. Like a historical fiction about World War I by a dude. This is not World War II. Lady Librarian spies, I think is a tougher seller for a mainstream reader unlikely to get a book club selection. He. He will potentially get some Best Books of the Year consideration, maybe some book award nominations. Because as you said, Yellowbirds was a National Book Award finalist. I don't know what to do with him up against Leila Slimani.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This is gotta do something.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is really tough. I think I'm just gonna trust the vibes and go with Leila Slimani.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, this is what everyone's talking about. Everything's on the table. This is what champions come to take. This is what everyone came to see. No do overs, no second chances, no more Mr. Nice Guy. This is winner take all. And it's all happening now on the home of the NBA Finals. Don't miss it. June 3rd on ABC. And the ESPN app tomorrow morning is knocking.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha Frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe? Or white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9% of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Shop [e-mail] up next, Ruth Ozeki's the Typing Lady. June 2, out now. 336 pages. A short story collection. So it's the Typing lady and Other Fictions. I've got to say, I really like and other Fictions. I don't know why. I don't know why. Why do I like that, Rebecca?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It just, I mean, to me, I find it just kind of charming. It sounds a little lovelier than like the Typing Lady Colon short story stories or. Yeah, the Typing Lady Colon Fiction I like and Other Fictions. It's just someone put some thought into that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It sounds like Borges. That's something Borges would have. End of the Fixiones or something like that. I think what I like is it suggests that you could get flash fiction, maybe a novella. Like you could get things of different and you certainly could. They get in the short story collection. But in a short story collection, if something is much longer than 30 pages, you're a little surprised if it's much shorter than 10 or 11. But this, this feels like, okay, I'm just gonna give you some stuff like, and it's the length it needs to be perfection, I guess on that level,

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I hope that that's what it is. I would love to see writers, and Ruth Ozeki is a great contender for it, do interesting, weirder stuff with their collections because, like, it's already so hard to sell fictions that aren't novels, as we know from Laura McGrath, that you might as well have a good time out there. Like you're doing your short, your short fiction for the die hard readers who pay attention to something that makes up like 2% of the market, maybe less than that. It's like 1.2% of the book market. So like let's all have fun out there. I think Leila Slimani gets to carry the day again because like Ruth Ozeki will get some critical acclaim. There will be mentions of this on list there. I have seen it on like Things to Look forward coming up in June. But. And she is, she does have a fandom. But when you've had two novels that people really liked and then you're putting out a collection of fictions, it's just kind of a tide us over until the next thing. And that's, that's just tougher as a cell. So I think we'll take Leila Slimani for another round.

[Jeff O'Neill]

If you haven't read Ruth Ozicki and I think the summaries or at least this synopses that we're getting for some of these fictions give you the sense of like, it's a little more commercial than something like Hong Kong, a lot more commercial. But like they're strange, they're disquieting, I would say is the best way of putting it here. For example, husband watches with tenderness and unease as the ghost of his wife's ambition roams the woods outside their home. A long deceit beat poetry hijacks the mind of a young publishing assistant. A curious grandmother creates a fake online dating profile to spy on her granddaughter's romantic life. So, and also specters, ghosts, other presences, fake identities. Like, this is very much Rosa's. She's very interested in identities and moving around and slippages between the past and present in one and another. And like I'm really looking forward to this, I should say I don't know

[Rebecca Schinsky]

if I said that Ozeki really fulfills Shinsky's dictum, which is that when you're dealing with literary fiction, the synopsis and what the book actually contains are quite different. So those are like, those are great setups for things. But Ruth Ozeki will make them weird and surprising and often the publisher is just looking for a like, okay, this is the thing that happens in this story. But she's really working on some other levels. Like it's not as separated from the synopsis as like Ben Lerner is, but she's on the spectrum of that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, up next, speaking of Ben Fountain, Rasputin Swims The Potomac out June 9th. 100k print run 416 pages. Abiding satire of American politics and a searing novel about the cruel absurdities of a contemporary life centering on a world champion professional wrestler with presidential ambitions. Just to give you some sense, like this is going to be Ben Fountain doing Ben Fountain things. It's going to be a hyper realistic send up satire, inversion, but familiar version of what we're going on now. So one of the characters is a reporter named Clarice Thomas Jr. So that's kind of the world we're going to live in. Rebecca, I think this sounds, I don't know, there's a presidential reality TV show in this called the Real West Wing. I am not that interested in reading about politics right now. I'll say that out loud. That's just where I am. There's something about that, this, that is piercing my bubble of resistance to it and I don't really know why. Maybe I'm looking for someone to blow it out and blow it up and like satire and play and sort of do the Mel Brooks producers thing of like mock, mock, mock. And I'm going to do art in your face as they once said in Parks and Rec. So Ben Fountain and Rasputin swims the Potomac is for your consideration.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean, I love Ben Fountain, Billy Lynn. It still looms large in my reader's imagination. It's just such a question of how much appetite readers have to deal with anything that touches politics. But make it so weird that it is realistic is what Ben Fountain is great at. And God knows the timeline we're living on is both very weird and unfortunately very real. I don't know. This is probably more political than any of the big book clubs want to touch. But leaning political can help you with book awards and like commenting on current events can help you with book awards, it can help you with best books of the year lists. He has those literary bonafides. It's not in translation, which just makes it more accessible because there are readers who see translated by or translated from the French on a book cover and they, they get scared that a book is going to be difficult just because it's translated, which is a thing that I would like the industry to work on. Like as a sidebar, we recently talked about My Brilliant Friend by Elena Ferrante and it is that is in translation is not noted on those books covers.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Amazing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Which I wonder like how much that helps with people just picking it up in a bookstore. I kind of know that we're headed to some titles that are going to knock out whatever I choose right now. So I think I'm going to take Ben Fountain just to let him one for a little bit.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think it's worth saying too, that comedies, satires tend not to do well in the moment, but sometimes over time they can do better. This is true of movies, is true of tv. The major awards for best picture, best TV series, typically comedies don't go to them, but then sometimes later they get rewatched and loved and dissected. All right, speaking of things that are probably going to knock things out, out June 2nd. So out today from the great Maggie O', Farrell, it's land. So who wrote the Marriage Portrait and of course Hamnet. This one is set in Ireland right around the Great hunger. So it's 1865. So over in the States we're having something you may have heard of called the Civil War. But over in 1865 there's a basically a famine going on. A father and son are working for something called the Ordinance Survey Project, which are trying to map the whole of Ireland because the British are coming and taking over this chunk of Ireland and their work is disrupted when they find a corpse or I'm sorry, they don't find a corpse, they're send off course when something happens that's strange, let's put it important distinction, importing distinction here. And they've got to deal with what they've encountered and how are they going to get through their lives. I'm very excited. I'm going to walk and buy this in about 50 minutes when we're done recording. Recording and talking together today at my local pals Don't Be Creepy Land by Maggie o' Farrell. Rebecca Big deal.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is high on my list for the month. It's on all the most anticipated lists. Maggie o' Farrell absolutely lives in the zone where she could be selected by a big book club and win a major book award. She will be on all the lists. The early reviews for this are very good. Fathers and Sons man. So like also set this aside to give to your dad for Father's Day if you're in the market.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes, There you go. Right. Pair it with John of Johns and just see if you can break your father figure.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right. What do you want to cry about today? Take your pig. I think it's a real question for me at least, what happens with Maggie o' Farrell's readership coming off of Hamnet like just the movie sold a lot of books for her and the movie is so faithful to the book. People who loved the book are like freshly reminded that Maggie o' Farrell is out there and she's doing great things. This is more of a reversion to her typical way of working. There's nobody shiny like Shakespeare at the center of the story, but Maggie o' Farrell doesn't need that kind of gimmick. This is going to knock out Ben Fountain for sure. It's going to be an interesting head to head over the next couple of rounds with what else is coming out this month. But but Maggie o', Farrell, like always a contender, just always a contender, but a really, really strong one this month.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I would also like to commend the COVID designer for finding a way to do vaguely shapeless color blobs that's really beautiful. So that's congratulations to them. I appreciate the work there. Up next, in the least horse forward horse marketed book of all time to

[Rebecca Schinsky]

report on this, I have finished it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think we'll save that probably for the regular show on Thursday, unless you really need to get into it here. It could certainly inform your adjudication of Whistler vs. Land. Whistler, of course, is the new novel by Ann Patchett which like Maggie o' Farrell writes historical fiction that's upmarket commercial, can win awards, book club adaptations, library indie store favorites like it kind of does it all. And I will say this, Rebecca too. For the first time in many, many a month when I went to look at the Goodreads Most anticipated for the month list, both of the top two, it was Landon Whistler. I'm not going to tell you the order. We're at the top of the list. So we get two upmarket literary that were not romantic. They're none of that stuff. There's plenty of that still. But one or two. The one and two were these two titles which I don't know what it portends. I think it portends that these are big deals but also the waning of the romantasy tick tock. You know, dark like there's a little ebbing of the tide there. I think. So these are coming up. This is a print run of 500000 copies. Knopf, which is the publisher of Land, does not do that gamesmanship. So I would guess it's not quite 500 but I would be wouldn't be surprised with 250 at all at that level. I saw the highest print run I've ever Seen. I'll probably spoil it for January. It's for Court of Thorns and Roses. Book seven. So not the next one. Would you like to guess how many for the book? 7. This is what they said. This is what Bloomsbury said.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay. We saw a million for a Colleen Hoover.

[Jeff O'Neill]

For a Colleen Hoover book. It's so. It's more than that. 2.5 foe 4 million. Wow.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So anyway, I would pay real American dollars for a look at the pre order data from the day from what's been going on since Acotar 6 and 7 hit the Amazon pages.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So you've read this? I. So you synopsize. And I will not just sort of fake, fake, fake book. The synopsis here. Tell me what Whistler is actually about. Not a horse.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Literary. Upmarket literary. About a woman who is in her mid-50s. She and her husband are at the Metropolitan Museum of Art one day and her husband notices a man following them around. And they meet up and it turns out that this man has been following them because he recognizes her because he was her stepfather for a brief period of her childhood. And they went through a really formative experience. Turns out to have been formative for both of them during that period when he was her stepfather. So now that they have reconnected, they both live in New York, they pick that relationship back up and they start digging into that formative moment that they shared back when she was a kid. Her sister also lives in the city, conveniently as a therapist. So you get her sister, like, asking her to tell the story of what, like what she experienced with the stepfather. Them sort of putting together pieces of their childhood and also then recontextualizing the way that they understood their mom in the process. And like, this man was her mom's second husband. So they're thinking back about the first husband and then the husband who came after this one and all of the things they thought they knew about their parents that turn out, of course, to be much more complicated than kids actually do. It is lovely. It is not horse forward, as I think I told you in a text. Like, there is a horse somewhere in the story, but the horse is mostly a symbol in. In the story. So I'm sorry if you thought you were like, literally saddle. Gonna saddle up for riding around here. But it's. It is. I mean, it's an Ann Patchett novel. Like, what do you want from me?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I read.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I wish it was that the title was the name of a horse and it was a picture of a horse. I want it to be about horses.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, there is a horse named Whistler, but.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, so what do you want to do then? I mean, read this. You haven't read Land.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I hate my life right now.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, you do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think I'm going to give the edge to Ann Patchett because it's contemporary. This one does not have many, like, pokey edges. No, Ann Patchett novels really do. But this one is like, easier and will go on my list of things you can gift your mother in law for the holidays. And parentheses complimentary. Like that is a good thing. O' Farrell doing gorgeous literary writing, but about a very unglamorous moment in world history that most, at least American writer or readers don't know much about is just going to be a tougher sell than Hamnet was. I think we'll see. If I were betting on this, I would bet that we would see o', Farrell's like, sales sort of pull back to what they are for the other books outside of Hamnet, which is still very respectable. On the other hand, o' Farrell more likely to get nominated for awards.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You think so?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I do. I. I think she's. I mean, she just is more. There's more elevated writing happening in Maggie o'. Farrell.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think we maybe. I mean, I don't know. I think Ann Patchett. Do we take Ann Patchett for granted? I think the more I've read of both Kingsolver and Patchett, I think Kingsolver sort of took the spot of being a little more literarily inventive than Patchett. She'll just try some other stuff like Demon Copper. Demon Copper is not a book Ann Patchett is going to write.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Just not going to happen. I think that. I mean, Ann Patchett is a great writer and very skilled at the craft of what she does. And her books are incredibly readable. And I. I do think that we take her a bit for granted because they go down so easy. Like, it's very difficult to write a book that reads that easily, but that is well written. Like, you know, we're not talking about sort of the. The things people said about Colleen Hoover of like, well, it's just. I don't have to think when I'm reading it, like, Ann Patchett will engage your thinking parts. But there's is more elevation to the art of a Maggie o' Farrell book. I would put Maggie o' Farrell above Kingsolver too, in this sort of hierarchy of literary writing that we are exploring.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, maybe. I guess I'll put it this way. What would Ann Patchett have to do to be surprised by the next Ann Patchett book. Whereas Barbara Kingsolver could do almost any. I mean, not almost anything. But the envelope of possibility is much more open for what Kingsolver might do in the next book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that Patchett would have to return to higher concept like State of Wonder. State of Wonder.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And Bel Canto.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And Bel Canto. And the stories that she's been writing since then have been wonderful, but grounded more in sort of just like everyday family kinds of things.

[Jeff O'Neill]

My uncharitable version of it. It's elevated emotional Hentai is. And Patch. That's my unchartable version of it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. I didn't feel. I mean, manipulated by Ann Patchett.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay. But a couple of older people looking back over their life, you see what I'm getting at here. Like, okay, I get that. I get it, I get it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I mean this is. I mean this is a really tough face off because it's also. Actually, this is what I'm going to do. I think that Ann Patchett is going to have an edge on o' Farrell this month as the month. But when we get to the end of the year, Maggie o' Farrell may win out because of award nomination juice.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Speaking of something you didn't know what to do with. So in the Hammer spot, do you know what's here? You know what this is going to be? You assumed it was going to be one of those two, right?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I did. I really thought we were going to be doing Osiris.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So did I too. But what do you do with a new Daniel Krause novel who just won the freaking Pulitzer Prize? And out June 23rd from Saga Press, which is the sci fi imprint of June 23, we have what seems like a pretty high concept science fiction book Deep into Space. It's called the Sixth Nick, which just rolls off the tongue for someone like me. Perfectly aligned for readers of E.M.M. banks's the Culture series and Ursula K. Le Guin's the Ones who Walk Away from Amalas. So referencing a writer most normies haven't heard of and like 9th tier, Ursula Lake K. Le Guin the 6 Nick is a Galaxy spanning adventure from the New York Times bestseller and Pulitzer Prize winning author of angel down and Whale Fall, which is going to be a movie later this year. Deep into space, there's a troll bot Internet. A ship woven from. I'm just saying words now. A ship woven from biomatter and capable of reaching to every need of its human crew. Cecila, a nine year old cultist with a. I just can't.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know. Go look it up for yourself.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Let me take you out of misery.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. So what do we do with this?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's gonna be Ann Patchett this month. There's a new novel by a Pulitzer Prize winning author and I am not seeing a ton of marketing for it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That you didn't know it existed is a tough beat for this.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Sounds like this is very genre, which great for Daniel Krause, but getting a crossover hit like he's had with Whalefall and then really with angel down when you're working in like, like pretty genre. Genre is rare. So I don't think that we should count on it from Pulitzer Prize winner Daniel Kraus might help him out. Of course. Like, people are primed to think that his books are great because now he's been on some lists and won some prizes, so that will help him. But so are Maggie o' Farrell and so are Ann Patchett. I'm just. We're gonna give the month to Ann Patchett here and we're gonna watch what happens for Daniel Krause over the rest the of of the year. Maybe this book pops when Whale Falls. When the Whale Fall film comes out. Maybe I will be wrong. We did make angel down the it book of the month. The month it came out. And I completely forgot that. Thank you to Sophia, who keeps track.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes, thank you, Sophia, who actually keeps track of what the hell we do with this. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I thought it would be fun in sort of the Joker spot to sort of spring it at the end. To not know what to do with

[Rebecca Schinsky]

what's going to be in the 10th spot. I had no idea where you were going.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. And the. Just you. You don't have the luxury of seeing the marketing that I'm looking at right now. Like, it's aggressively sci fi. This is not something that you could like Station 11 or the dog Stars your way into. Like, thinking it's a regular commercial upmarket literary that has some speculative elements. It's like the picture of a robot lady, like Nebula from the Guardians of the Galaxy kind of looking thing with these bright blue end papers. And it's a word that nobody knows. He must have. I mean, clearly he was working on this. He's working in multiple genres across imprints. Here's my question to you. Pretend this book doesn't exist and there was a Daniel Krause book coming out today. Right. To compete with land and to compete for Whistler with the it Book of the month is there? What. What kind of synopsis would it need to be for Daniel Krause to take it from o' Farrell or Patchett for this month? So he's got the Pulitzer. He's got angel down. What if it's a seemingly more straightforward book? What if it's more of a literary spec fic? Do you give Krause a second look as winning the month?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Maybe. Probably not. I think that what he would need to compete against o' Farrell and Patchett in it. Book glory is a subject that more overtly appeals to female readers.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Like in the ways that publishers think about how books are marketed. Because you have to live.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You think floating through a whale's guts is male coded? Is that what you're saying?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm just gonna go out on a limb and make some assumptions about gender stereotyping. Yeah. That you have to live in that zone where publishers believe that you are appealing to the female readers that drive the business in order to get the book club kinds of marketing. Like they'll put a different cover on your book if they think that you can reach that audience and it will help it sell more. So there are certainly months, obviously, because we've had them in which Daniel Krause can win the IT book. But it means it has to happen in a month where you're not competing with somebody like Ann Patchett or Maggie o' Farrell who is going to ring the most central bell of book sales and then also tally up a bunch of the ones around it. But Daniel Cross is just never going to be if he keeps writing in this way. He's not in big book club contention and he's doing just fine. You don't have to write towards the book clubs in order to know winning

[Jeff O'Neill]

the IT book should be no one's real. Like long term goal.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

This is an imaginary prize.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes. But it does very much speak to my. Are we sure he's not the next Stephen King of just. He'll write whatever. Like whatever strikes his fancy. And he kind of isn't. Unlike Ann Patchett. You really don't know what you're getting with the next Daniel Krause book. Like you really have no idea. I'm genuinely surprised to see this. This.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Love to be surprised by what direction an author is going to go in if he carves out a career that takes him in the direction of Stephen King. Like go with God, man. That's amazing. But for what we're doing specifically with IT books, I. I don't see it. Like he could get on some best of lists. This has not been on a bunch of most anticipated.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, it could because no one knows what to do with it like us. Like what do we do with this book?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It could win some of like the Nebulas. It could win some of the genre specific. But it's. It's hard if you are like pretty hard genre to get nominated for something like the National Book Award or the Pulitzer. So Ann Patchett.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Yep. O' Farrell has Hamnet. Right. A big movie. And it's relatively fresh in people's minds.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Ann Patchett is Ann Patchett. She's been doing these kinds of books for 30 years at this point. Like the living breathing manifestation of an indie bookstore. Like she owns one. She looks like someone who'd bother both work at sign and own and shop at an independent bookstore.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Ann Patrick does and she's out there like Ann Patrick, she does great press. There's reels going around of Ann Patchett giving speeches about book banning. Like she is. But she walks the talk and like has that sort of patron saint of indie bookstores vibe because it's hard earned for her. And people love her books. Like they are incredibly readable. They resonate with your lived experience and you can read them in a day and a half. Like I have. My only regret is that I didn't save this for later in the month when like we record an episode about the Odyssey. You leave on vacation then and then like I go lay by a pool for 48 hours with a stack of books. I should think I've got.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think I've got my plane reading and jet lag reading sorted out. I think I'm going to do. I'm gonna do Dungeon Crawler Carl.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, I can't wait to hear about.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm gonna have my Kindle and I'm gonna do the new Tana French. Those are going to be my travel on my Kindle reads.

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[Jeff O'Neill]

Just one more series of meaningless hypotheticals. If the whale fall movie was out and this was. This was a FSG high concept literary, I think I would at least have to take a second look at Krause. I do not discount the Pulitzer Prize that was announced literally four weeks ago or something like that. But you. This is like the. I don't know what would be a harder sell than this. I think if it was a category romance, it might actually be an easier sell.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. But also maybe don't over index on the Pulitzer. How many normies are paying attention to that? Like we know that winning I'm not care about normies.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The normies had their chance. Well, I'm talking about IT books.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

There is not enough attention from general readers going to those award winners to move the sales needle.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I haven't looked at the angel down sales. I don't think it's been charting for Angel Down. I don't know that it's moved a bunch of of needles over there. He's been doing the Post Awards.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We talked about it on the hot list because it had just won the awards, but it has not, you know, reappeared on bestseller list. And that's to be expected. Like it does not have. You can win the Nobel and not really move your sales needle.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So all right, there we go. That is the it books for June 2026. You can shoot us an email podcastbookriot.com check out the shownotes bookright.com listen. You can see all of our historical picks for the IT Books of the month. If you're a member of our patreon [e-mail] bookriot podcast, go check out I Know why the Caged Bird Sings over on Zero to well read. Check out the Odyssey. Join us on the Patreon over there if you want to do a read along. We have another regular show and then a little fuzziness as we do summertime things. But it's summer reading season, Rebecca, so I hope everyone's out there has got something for their pool, plane or just porch. The three Ps pool, plane and porch of summer reading right there, Rebecca. Thank you so much.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Y' all have a good one.

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

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