Book Riot - The Podcast Episode: The Pulitzer Drama Was Real and Other Book News PLUS: A Mini-Book Club for RUN FOR THE HILLS by Kevin Wilson
Release Date: May 12, 2025
Hosts: Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Schinsky

1. Episode Overview

In this episode of Book Riot - The Podcast, hosts Jeff O’Neill and Rebecca Schinsky delve into recent happenings in the literary world, including the controversial awarding of the 2025 Pulitzer Prize in Fiction, casting decisions influenced by authors' personal views, a new publishing imprint focused on male authors, advancements in AI-driven literary courses, and significant changes in the tech industry affecting book sales. Additionally, the hosts engage in a mini-book club discussion of Kevin Wilson's Run for the Hills.

2. The 2025 Pulitzer Prize Controversy

The episode opens with a heated discussion about Alexander Alter's article on LoudLit revealing that Percival Everett's novel James won the 2025 Pulitzer Prize in Fiction. The authors explore the dynamics between the Pulitzer jury and the board, questioning whether sexism played a role in the decision-making process.

• Rebecca Schinsky (09:08):
  "We have a Pulitzer Prize winning novel this year. And to me, this is the system working the way that this system is set up to work..."

• Jeff O’Neill (10:19):
  "I think the fly in the ointment of some sort of systemic problem is that James rocks."

Key Points:

• The jury initially recommended three books (Headshot by Rita Bullwinkle, Mice 1961 by Stacey Levine, and The Unicorn Woman by Gail Jones) but the board sought a fourth option, leading to James being selected.
• Discussion on whether the selection was influenced by sexism, given that the initial finalists were women.
• Both hosts express support for James and criticize speculative claims about systemic biases without substantial evidence.

3. Casting Controversies: John Lithgow and J.K. Rowling

The hosts transition to discussing actor John Lithgow's surprise at J.K. Rowling's anti-trans comments affecting his casting in a new HBO series.

• Jeff O’Neill (20:18):
  "But he's sort of Trying to appear above it all with like, well, of course, no..."

• Rebecca Schinsky (21:44):
  "He's 79. Like he... don't think so."

Key Points:

• John Lithgow was unaware of J.K. Rowling's controversial views during his casting.
• The discussion highlights the broader implications of supporting or separating art from the artist, especially concerning harmful personal opinions.
• The hosts express concerns about the potential long-term impact on the series and public perception.

4. New Publishing Imprint: Conduit Books

Rebecca introduces Conduit Books, a new imprint founded by John Cook, aimed at promoting male authors.

• Rebecca Schinsky (27:55):
  "My response to this is somewhere between a fart noise and a middle finger."

Key Points:

• The imprint seeks to address the perceived imbalance in publishing, where female authors receive more attention.
• The hosts critique the premise, arguing that the focus should be on merit rather than correcting gender imbalances through selective publishing.
• Discussion on the publishing industry's current demographic trends, highlighting that editorial roles are predominantly held by women.

5. AI in Literature: BBC's Maestro Series

Jeff and Rebecca discuss the BBC's Maestro series, which offers an AI-driven Agatha Christie writing course featuring a Christie impersonator.

• Jeff O’Neill (32:43):
  "This is the AI era version of... I've been to the hall of Presidents at Disney World and I have seen the robot of Abraham Lincoln deliver the Gettysburg Address."

• Rebecca Schinsky (34:28):
  "This is really unfortunate... She's not a victim in this case."

Key Points:

• The hosts express skepticism about the creativity and authenticity of AI-driven literary courses.
• Concerns are raised about the ethical implications of using deceased authors' likenesses without consent.
• The discussion touches on broader issues of AI in content creation and the preservation of authorial intent.

6. Tech Industry News: European Court Ruling on App Purchases

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to a groundbreaking European court ruling that allows apps to include buttons directing users to third-party purchase platforms, challenging Apple's 30% commission model.

• Jeff O’Neill (36:25):
  "Andy Hunter is thrilled today... there's not going to be a lot of coverage anywhere."

• Rebecca Schinsky (37:11):
  "It's a game changer for folks who read in the Kindle app on any of their devices."

Key Points:

• The ruling paves the way for apps like Bookshop to offer direct purchase options, bypassing Apple's fees.
• This change is anticipated to disrupt Apple's dominance in digital sales, benefiting independent bookstores and alternative platforms.
• The hosts discuss potential expansions and the trickle-down effect this ruling may have on other online retailers.

7. Recent Readings and Discussions

a. Girls Girls Girls by Sophie Gilbert

• Rebecca Schinsky:
  Explores how pervasive media and entertainment have influenced societal perceptions of women, tracing the impact from the 90s to the present.
• Jeff O’Neill:
  Reflects on his experiences growing up in the 90s and the shift from feminist movements to more commercialized female consumerism.

b. Moral Ambition by Rutger Bregman

• Rebecca Schinsky:
  Discusses the book's call for individuals to pursue morally significant work over superficial or exploitative jobs.
• Jeff O’Neill:
  Expresses frustration with the book's idealism but acknowledges the useful frameworks it provides for personal development.

Quotes:

• Rebecca Schinsky (38:43):
  "It felt like really an academic person be like, yeah, all of that was really messed up."

8. Mini-Book Club: Run for the Hills by Kevin Wilson

The episode culminates with an in-depth discussion of Kevin Wilson's latest novel, Run for the Hills.

• Jeff O’Neill (58:14):
  "Run for the Hills is out now... it's a road trip story with deeper familial themes."

• Rebecca Schinsky (67:29):
  "I liked this, but I didn't love it... it felt like this is the least zany to me."

Key Points:

• Premise: Four siblings, all having never met before, embark on a cross-country journey to uncover the truth about their missing father, a serial lever.
• Discussion Highlights:
  • Character Development: The hosts critique the book for its lack of depth and dramatic tension, feeling it deviates from Wilson's typically zany and emotionally intricate storytelling.
  • Narrative Structure: The linear and surface-level storytelling failed to engage the hosts as effectively as Wilson’s previous works.
  • Adaptability: Despite their critiques, the hosts acknowledge the book's potential for adaptation into a compelling television series, albeit with necessary enhancements.

Quotes:

• Jeff O’Neill (78:32):
  "The whole thing just goes down a little too easy... It felt like it was written by a guy named Kevin Wilson, not Kevin the Lumberjack Wilson."

• Rebecca Schinsky (77:05):
  "This is about as a happy ending as you could have reasonably expected when the book started."

Overall Sentiment: While appreciating Run for the Hills as an entertaining read, both hosts felt it lacked the emotional and narrative complexity that characterizes Kevin Wilson's best works. They expressed hope that this is an isolated case within Wilson's oeuvre.

9. Concluding Remarks

Jeff and Rebecca wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to explore the discussed topics, offering book recommendations, and promoting their Patreon for exclusive content. They maintain an engaging and candid dialogue, reflecting both their passion for literature and their critical perspectives on recent developments in the literary and tech industries.

Notable Quotes:

• Jeff O’Neill (01:05):
  "By the time you're hearing this tomorrow... I'm going with a cadre of 8th graders on a week-long field trip."

• Rebecca Schinsky (03:04):
  "But at least we're going to have a good time."

• Jeff O’Neill (85:35):
  "Sam, you're ridiculous and men's rights is nothing."

Listen to the full episode for an engaging exploration of contemporary literary issues and an honest critique of Kevin Wilson's latest novel!