Podcast Summary: Book Riot – The Podcast

Episode: Trump Sues PRH, The National Book Award Fiction Longlist, and More Book News
Date: September 22, 2025
Hosts: Jeff O’Neill & Rebecca Schinsky

Overview

This episode dives into the latest news from the world of books, including Donald Trump’s lawsuit against Penguin Random House, the National Book Award fiction longlist, the evolving landscape of book publishing and social media, new streaming services, and current reading recommendations. The hosts, Jeff and Rebecca, discuss industry trends, award contenders, and notable recent releases while also sharing personal anecdotes and listener feedback.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Zero to Well Read Podcast Updates (01:14)

• New Episodes & Syllabus:
  • "Zero to Well Read" is releasing additional episodes, recently shifting its reading list to include Vineland by Thomas Pynchon due to an upcoming film adaptation.
  • The show’s reading list evolves with book world events, and is not published in advance to retain flexibility (03:01).
  • Rebecca explains: “some of that is giving ourselves flexibility to move the schedule around. The lineup has changed multiple times.” (03:20)
• Listener Requests:
  • Many requests to see the reading list in advance; hosts emphasize benefits of flexibility and encourage listeners to engage when they’re ready.

2. Pynchon & Film Adaptations (02:08)

• Vineland vs. New Adaptation:
  • The upcoming film "One Battle After Another" is more a "spiritual" than faithful adaptation of Vineland.
  • Discussion on the challenges of adapting Pynchon’s language-rich work to film.
• Movie Awards Anticipation:
  • "Sinners", "Hamnet," and "One Battle After Another" pegged as Best Picture frontrunners (04:34).

3. New York Publishing Notes & Book Culture Observations (05:00)

• Literary Presence in NYC:
  • Jeff discusses recent high-profile book and theater experiences in New York, including Broadway shows based on classics and museum exhibits anchored in literary history.
• Desire for “Analog Mind”:
  • Rebecca notes: “it's a way into talking about what she calls the analog mind—a mind from the before times. And that's the best part for me of reading Deep Magic.” (06:33)
  • Pre-internet books and "deep reading" are increasingly valued by readers.

4. BookTok & the Parallel Publishing Universe (12:47)

• The “Snow Globe” Model:
  • Jeff proposes TikTok/BookTok creates a self-contained universe, mostly separate from the mainstream publishing world (13:23).
  • Rebecca adds: “mainstream... is kind of mainstream trying. They're trying to sell books to all kinds of readers... But the extremely online… is catering to them with a different goal.” (14:01)
• Publisher Strategy:
  • Online successes heavily influence publisher investment decisions, but platforms like TikTok are “not a transportable ecosystem” (16:11).
• Book Bans & Library Funding:
  • Continued impact of censorship/banning; cuts to library budgets are making books less accessible and affecting publisher sales, especially in children’s and middle grade segments.

5. National Book Award Fiction Longlist (18:41)

• 2025 Longlist Highlights:
  • Full list read out by Rebecca. Personal favorites and expected contenders discussed:
    • "The Wilderness" by Angela Flournoy praised: “Just read this last week. It's fantastic.” (18:54)
    • "A Guardian and a Thief" by Megha Majumdar: noted as a Kirkus finalist and highly anticipated (19:46).
    • "Flashlight" by Susan Choi: mixed reviews from hosts, big with indie stores (20:22).
  • Notable Theory: Rebecca floats the idea that Karen Russell’s "The Antidote" might receive recognition as a “make good” for a past Pulitzer omission (21:01).
• Short Story Collections:
  • Expressed rooting for collections like "The Pelican Child" by Joy Williams (22:47).

6. Trump’s Lawsuit Against Penguin Random House (29:10)

• Key Facts:
  • Trump sues PRH and the New York Times over "Lucky Loser," alleging $15 billion in damages for supposed “actual malice” and campaign interference.
  • “[Actual malice]—the bar is pretty high. I'll drop a link into the show notes for what those are. I haven't seen any material... to think this is real.” — Rebecca (29:51)
• Legal Perspective & Impact:
  • Lawsuit is widely considered meritless, intended mainly to intimidate publishers and journalists.
  • Past similar suits (e.g., against Michael Wolff, Mary Trump, Bob Woodward’s publisher) all failed.
  • Chilling effect on smaller publishers and local newspapers discussed: “What if Gray Wolf had a book, right? What if the Lawrence Journal World had a story?” — Jeff (32:38)
  • Both hope well-funded publishers will withstand chilling tactics.

7. Scholastic Launches Streaming Service (35:55)

• Surprise Move:
  • Scholastic introduces a standalone streaming platform for kids’ content, including “Clifford the Big Red Dog”, “Magic School Bus,” and more.
• Industry Analysis:
  • Rebecca questions why not license to existing streamers: “I’d be really curious… what the business case was for making this a separate thing, especially in a time... streaming [is] contracting.” (36:06)
  • Jeff speculates schools/library systems, not private homes, may be the true target audience.
  • Move could be linked to ongoing censorship pressures in schools/libraries.

8. Vocabulary Corner: The “Jefftionary” (40:04)

• New Words:
  • “Eft” (41:13): “It is a small newt. They're very adorable.” — Rebecca.
  • “Labile” (41:33): “Means mercurial, changeable…” — Jeff.
  • “Soignèe”: “Describes someone who’s elegant.” — Jeff (42:11).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Reading Pre-Internet Canon:

  • “All of the books that we're talking about... were written before the Internet as we know it now. And it does feel like engaging with a different kind of writing and a different kind of thinker that's really refreshing and very welcome.” — Rebecca (06:33)

• On Spoilers for Classics:

  • “The Great Gatsby is 100 years old. Sit down.” — Rebecca (08:52)

• On BookTok’s Influence:

  • “Online book talk… is like a snow globe that's bigger than the real world in a lot of ways.” — Jeff (13:23)

• On Trump’s Lawsuits:

  • “The point… is not this specific book. It is to make it a pain in the ass and scary for people who want to publish books, articles, reporting that are unflattering to the Trump administration and to Donald Trump individually.” — Rebecca (31:34)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Patreon/“Zero to Well Read” Updates: 01:01 – 04:00
• Pynchon, Movies, & Adaptations: 02:08 – 04:55
• NYC Literary Culture Observations: 05:00 – 07:29
• TikTok & Parallel Publishing Universes: 12:47 – 16:11
• Book Censorship and Funding: 16:07 – 18:41
• National Book Award Fiction Longlist: 18:41 – 24:00
• Trump’s Lawsuit Against PRH: 29:10 – 34:42
• Scholastic Streaming Platform Launch: 35:55 – 38:34
• Vocabulary Corner (Jefftionary): 40:04 – 43:20
• Recent Reads and Recommendations: 44:26 – 53:52

Recent Reading Recommendations

• "Mother Mary Comes to Me" by Arundhati Roy (44:26): Praised as an engrossing, complex memoir about Roy and her formidable mother. “I cannot recommend it enough.” — Rebecca (46:42)
• "Baldwin, A Love Story" by Nicholas Boggs (47:33): A thorough and newly-archived biography centered on four of Baldwin’s key relationships.
• "The Ten Year Affair" by Erin Summers (51:27): Anticipated to be one of Jeff’s top ten novels of the year; described as “a how we live now for a certain kind of thing” and reminiscent of the best traditions of novel-of-manners (52:47).

Tone & Atmosphere

Warm, intellectually curious, and reader-focused, with the hosts’ usual blend of insight, humor, and candor. Industry analysis is balanced with fan-level enthusiasm for literature, sharp observations about culture, and some gentle poking at industry oddities and podcast listeners’ quirks.

For further content, including newsletters and additional episodes, listeners are directed to the Book Riot website and related podcast feeds.