Writers to Watch, 2025 Edition

Summary

Book Riot - The Podcast: Writers to Watch, 2025 Edition Release Date: January 29, 2025

In this engaging episode of Book Riot's Jeff O'Neal and Rebecca Schinsky, the hosts delve deep into their curated list of "Writers to Watch" for 2025. Focusing on authors poised for breakout success or those on an upward trajectory, Jeff and Rebecca navigate the complex landscape of contemporary literature, discussing criteria for inclusion and spotlighting specific talents that deserve greater recognition.

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Defining "Writers to Watch"

Jeff opens the discussion by addressing the genesis of the "Writers to Watch" segment, originally inspired by a Patreon idea. The concept revolves around identifying authors who, while not entirely unknown, show potential for significant breakthroughs in the literary world.

Jeff O'Neill (00:19): "And we're doing an episode of Writers to Watch. And we have not discussed what this means at all."

Rebecca concurs, emphasizing the challenge of selecting writers who are neither too established nor completely debuting. They aim to spotlight those on the cusp of greater recognition without overshadowing already renowned authors.

Rebecca Schinsky (00:26): "It's maybe who's due for a breakout or who do we think is on the rise."

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Establishing Criteria for Inclusion

A key point of discussion centers on the criteria for making the list. Jeff highlights the importance of limiting the list to authors with a manageable number of publications to ensure freshness and potential for growth.

Jeff O'Neill (00:51): "They couldn't have three books out...she's already disqualified."

Rebecca adds that the focus isn't solely on debut authors but also on those who might be transitioning into more prominent roles in the literary scene.

Rebecca Schinsky (02:06): "I have some of all of those and some that I just think are people to pay attention to."

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Spotlight on Emerging Authors

The bulk of the episode centers on discussing various authors who fit the "Writers to Watch" bill. Jeff and Rebecca explore a diverse array of writers across genres, evaluating their current works and potential future projects.

Vincent Cunningham

Starting with Vincent Cunningham, Jeff notes his high-profile background and recent acclaim.

Jeff O'Neill (02:55): "Probably Vincent Cunningham."

Rebecca appreciates his literary depth but expresses curiosity about his next steps beyond his acclaimed work "Great Expectations."

Rebecca Schinsky (06:33): "It's pretty damn mature...super curious to see what Chantal does next."

Edgar Gomez

Edgar Gomez is recognized for his memoirs and essay collections. Jeff contemplates his potential transition into fiction.

Jeff O'Neill (08:10): "Reconfiguring these things and exploring them as a fictional work could be pretty interesting."

Javier Zamora

While Javier gained visibility through his memoir "Solito," Rebecca underscores his consistent presence on her website, signaling ongoing relevance.

Rebecca Schinsky (09:17): "Because Solito was Big. But he's very much on my website."

Bianca Bosker

A surprise highlight, Bianca Bosker is lauded for her investigative style and deep dives into unique subjects.

Jeff O'Neill (10:23): "Rodeo. You didn't see that coming, did you?"

Rebecca envisions her exploring unconventional themes, such as rodeo culture, blending literary finesse with engaging narratives.

Rebecca Schinsky (10:52): "She finds this thing she's super interested in and does a deep dive into."

Monica Brashears & Chantal Johnson

Monica Brashears is celebrated for "House of Cotton," admired for its established narrative strength despite being a debut.

Rebecca Schinsky (12:28): "House of Cotton. Talk about weird and wild."

Chantal Johnson, known for "Post Traumatic," receives praise for her confronting and honest storytelling, leaving Jeff eager for her future projects.

Jeff O'Neill (13:05): "It's very confronting and up front...curious to see what Chantal does next."

Wakey Wang & Joseph Earl Thomas

Wakey Wang is acknowledged for her presence in the literary sphere, though Rebecca expresses a desire for broader recognition beyond their existing work.

Rebecca Schinsky (13:50): "More people need to be talking and be excited about Wakey Wang."

Joseph Earl Thomas, with works like "God Bless Yoda Spunkmeyer," is noted for his challenging narratives and unique storytelling approach.

Rebecca Schinsky (14:21): "God Bless Yoda Spunkmire, also just a challenging novel."

Deep Tea Kapoor & Melissa Febos

Deep Tea Kapoor's anticipation for her next novel is high, especially after the success of "Age of Vice." Meanwhile, Melissa Febos is recognized for her increasing depth and intrigue, though her multiple publications slightly disqualify her from the strictest criteria.

Jeff O'Neill (15:34): "Too many books."

Brandon Taylor & Jonathan Escoffrey

Brandon Taylor, known for "Real Life" and "The Late Americans," is highlighted for his critical acclaim and potential for continued success. Jonathan Escoffrey is admired for his versatility and the unpredictability of his forthcoming works.

Rebecca Schinsky (18:10): "When Real Life came out, his debut, that was everywhere...big potential."

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Considering Established Authors

Beyond emerging talents, the hosts also touch upon established authors whose future projects could redefine their careers or introduce them to new audiences.

Torrey Peters

Torrey Peters, after the monumental success of "Detransition, Baby," is anticipated to continue her impactful storytelling, though Rebecca notes this might be her final eligibility for the current list's criteria.

Rebecca Schinsky (21:53): "If he's going to explode. This is when Torrey Peters explodes."

Angela Flournoy & Others

Angela Flournoy is praised for "The Turner House," with both hosts expressing eagerness for her next endeavors, whether they delve deeper into family dynamics or explore entirely new themes.

Jeff O'Neill (34:31): "Katabasis...we'll just do [something else]."

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Final Thoughts and Future Directions

As the conversation winds down, Jeff and Rebecca reflect on the challenges of predicting literary success and the excitement of discovering authors who may shape the literary landscape in the years to come. They emphasize the importance of staying attuned to diverse voices and the evolving nature of storytelling.

Rebecca Schinsky (35:23): "I’d love to sell like Emily Henry...take turns doing contemporary romance."

The episode concludes with a playful brainstorming session about potential projects and collaborations, underscoring the dynamic and ever-evolving world of literature.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rebecca Schinsky (00:26): "Who's due for a breakout or who do we think is on the rise."
• Jeff O'Neill (15:35): "Too many books."
• Rebecca Schinsky (21:00): "I'm in for whatever she does next."

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Conclusion

Jeff O'Neal and Rebecca Schinsky's discussion in this episode offers a comprehensive look at authors who are on the brink of greater recognition. Their thoughtful analysis and passionate endorsement provide listeners with valuable insights into the future stars of the literary world. Whether you're an avid reader or an aspiring writer, this episode serves as a roadmap to the voices that will shape 2025's literary conversations.

Transcript

[Jeff O'Neill]

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

And I'm Rebecca Schinsky.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And we're doing a episode of Writers to Watch. And we have not discussed what this means at all.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We have not. I think this was born out of a Patreon idea at one point. And this was like maybe writers that if they had a couple originally it was writers. If they had a couple more books, they would go up on our list of like, these are our guys. We buy their books every time. But then it's kind of maybe who's due for a breakout or who do we think is on the rise. I have a little. I have some of all of those and some that I just think are people to pay attention to the.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They. I kept it to. They couldn't have three books out.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So I didn't need it to be just one. But then also I think I have, for example. And then they can't have already quote unquote, made it in my mind. And I don't know what that means, except I know when I see it.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

For example, it's not Barbara Kingsolver being under.

[Jeff O'Neill]

She has too many books, so she's already disqualified. But YA Gyasi has two books out. She's not making my list because, yeah, she's all right. That's silly. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. So it's really like. And I'm not a prospector. I'm not Liberty who reads like debut novels and all that kind of stuff. So they've already gotten sudden amount. I don't know. So I kind of feel like I'm an uncanny valley of some of these. I'm like, really? People know these people already. But anyway, I don't know what else to do.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think maybe that's why I had a kind of a tougher time with this than I expected. And I suspect it's because I don't read a ton of debut. There's so much other stuff happening. There are so many debuts. It's hard to drill down to like, what is really going to be interest. And we'll pick up some steam for the kinds of work that we do. So I will definitely not be following the. They can't have three books out to a T here, but I can note it where I'm what my thinking was on the ones that have more books.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Let me give you a couple that I'm not sure should be on the list because they might have people already watching them. Like Akbar with Martyr.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I did not put Kaveh for that. Same reason. Like you got nominated for a National Book Award.

[Jeff O'Neill]

You're kind of done. So let me give you another couple. Just so. So here's another one. So Ashley Ford's well known as a writer, but she only has one book, Somebody's daughter. Is she?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I feel like she's a big enough name.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's kind of what I thought for.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The book and her just her general profile. She's hosted big popular podcasts like we'll pay attention to her next book certainly.

[Jeff O'Neill]

So stop me if you have any of these people. Speaking of National Book Critics Circle Award finalists, we just record the show. You guys have already heard or yeah, you've already heard. If you're listening to this, probably Vincent Cunningham.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I do have him.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, well, let's start there.

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[Rebecca Schinsky]

Foreign.

[Sponsor]

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[Jeff O'Neill]

Kind of on the edge case. New Yorker writer, high profile, writes an Obama book. National Book Critic Circle Award. Not for first novel, Rebecca. Just regular novel. Yes, but it's not obvious like Martyr, so it's kind of in betwixt, in between.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, it was. I mean, not the highest profile debut. Like it got some buzz. It was nominated for some awards. The packaging pretty literary.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Very literary.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Absolutely. Very literary. It's called. The first one is called Great Expectations. That's just hell of a flex. And I loved it. I thought it was a great novel, but also it's not the kind of book you're going to break out on unless it has a totally different cover. Maybe you can title it Great Expectations, but it needs a much more commercial cover, which I do it, I think I said at the time. I think the packaging of the book and the COVID did it a disservice. I think it has much more commercial appeal than it looks like it has. It's gorgeously Written, but like people are interested in politics and what it would be like to be behind the scenes of a campaign like that. So I do think he qualifies here because I. I don't think that Great X. I think it was quite a great debut, but I don't think it was like a breakout.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Here's the other reason. And some of these people on the list for this is what else you got up your sleeve. Okay. You worked for the Obama campaign. You wrote a novel about it that was really good. You're a good writer of sentences that. What's your cut out of whole cloth novel that isn't sort of an auto fiction personal experience kind of a situation too. So I think that's in terms of what Vincent Cunningham's next novel could be. I'm about as curious about that as anything I have on my list.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yes. And curious about. At least I am of like, was the Great Expectations? Was this the Obama story? Is that the one book you had in you or what else is cooking? I suspect there's a lot more.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But I think as a professional critic of esthetic experiences, it's also interesting to think about the paralysis of knowing what's out there might be especially difficult for someone like.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, he was a film critic for the New York.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Now doing TV theater.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, yeah. A theater, then into tv.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I just talked about this on the show again. This I think falls in the Vincent Cunningham. Not because certainly less. Well, the second one's not even out yet. I can't imagine it's going to be. Well, maybe it will. Edgar Gomez. So he's now done two memoirs in sort of essays. It's on audio, so I'm not really sure. It feels like it's put together as essays. It's not a continuous narrative, but. And I flipped through high risk homosexuals first one just to kind of give myself a sense of. Is it fairly similar? I think it is fairly similar. It's brought his life up to the publication of his first book. Is what happens in Alligator Tears? Is he a memoirist in essays you run out of life at some point. What is the next chess move?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Where is he gonna go?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Where is he gonna go? I'm very, very. He's got a voice, he's got a perspective and life experience that you can imagine. Reconfiguring these things and exploring them as a fictional work could be pretty interesting. So he's on my. Okay, what's the next Chess?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Javier Zamora. What do we think about that? Because Solito was Big. But he's very much on my website.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's not quite martyr, but it's a lot like Ackbar in terms of they're both poets. Who then did a, you know, with. With Solita, of course. It's a memoir. Is there another story in there?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And I want to know, is it too big? Look, I voted for it for one of the great novels or one of the great books. So it can be no bigger so that I disqualify that. But I could understand it putting.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Fair enough.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I very much could.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Very much in the realm of what is this writer going to do next? On a more casual, I guess, what is this writer going to do next? Tip. Bianca Bosker is one I have my eye on. Cork dork was really fun. The art book was also really fun. She stated in this zone of like highbrow stuff. Wine and fine art. Very highbrow. If she will have a break, like a big breakout moment, I think whatever the next thing she dives into is going to need to be more accessible. Closer to the middle brow.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I got one for you. And I'm not kidding. Rodeo. You didn't see that coming, did you?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I did not. I would love Bianca Bosker to get super into Rodeo.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I can cover with like a hat down, like a country album covering her face. Professional road bust some broncos.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, that would be. That would be super fun. But I really love.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sorry, go ahead, finish that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I really love the, like the flavor of. You know, she. It's not A.J. jacobs. It's not that much of a shtick, but she finds this thing she's super interested in and does a deep dive into. Like, how can I become an expert in this thing? What do you even have to know to be an expert in this thing? And then tells the story of it and seems to have a real knack for insinuating herself into these worlds. Maybe closer to like what Gopnik does with the magicians in the real work.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, that's a good one. What if she did like a stand up?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, stand up would be a close up magician or something. Or something like that. Yeah. But yeah, I have my eye on Bianca Bosker.

[Jeff O'Neill]

This is a side note. What's Mary Roach doing? I don't know what's going on?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Did she run out of like, we did space, we did dead bodies, we did sex.

[Jeff O'Neill]

What was the grunt? Was grunt.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

The last one Grunt?

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think that was.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Is that the one? The animal one?

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, no, that's like military stuff.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, yeah. I Think there was the one after that that was like animals.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, yeah, animal ones. But it's been like four years.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's been a couple of years. What's Mary Roach up to?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Watch out. She's gonna come out tomorrow and it's gonna be like Cyborg by Mary Roach. She's gonna have like an OC A bunch of oggs. Let's see. Where do I want to go? Vincent Canyon. I'm trying to think of what else you might have on yours. Did you put Pemi Oguda on yours?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, no, but I wish I had.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I think on my draft, if I say tomorrow, there's a fully fleshed out novel by author X. Who'd you put in X? It might be a great.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's a great pick.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, we both really like that short story.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Ghost Ritz was fantastic.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Why don't you. What do you have else? What else?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Monica Brashears.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I have Monica Brashears as well.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

House of Cotton. Talk about weird and wild. And what tricks does she have up her sleeve? And as a debut, that one did not have debut novel problems. That felt like somebody's second or third book. Well established, very solid and sure of itself. I cannot wait to see what she'll do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I thought I heard she had a new book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, really? Well, that would be great news, I think.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, we did a Deals, deals, deals about it. I'm pretty sure. Anyway, let's see. Chantal Johnson, she wrote Post Traumatic, which is one of my favorite books of a couple years ago.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Again, that's another one where she has real life experience in this world. Knows the ins and outs. But I didn't think it had first novel problems. It was strange and difficult. Had a cool ending.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's very confronting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Very confronting and up front. Sometimes you use your story in the story. But I. I'm super curious to see what Chantal does next. So that's one I've got on my list.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's a good one. I have Wakey Wang on my list. Oh, I feel like she's due for a big moment.

[Jeff O'Neill]

She's got three books from Riverhead. Rebecca. She's already here.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No, I need more people. She's not here enough. More people need to be talking and be excited about waking up.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, here's the thing that, that I agree, but I'm talking about for us because here's the thing. We kind of. We kind of know what we're going to get with a Wakey Wang note.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's true.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We kind of do know.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But I want more people to know I understand the rubric here of like let's see what they'll do next. It doesn't fit. But I want the world to be watching Wikiwick.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sure. But that's true for most authors of mid list literary fiction. So let's just throw Barbara King. No, that's the one actually don't need to put on.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What else do you Joseph Earl Thomas.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I have wrote God Bless Yoda Spunkmeyer and Sink Sink.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Really talk about confronting a really difficult, powerful memoir. And then God bless you, Otis Spunkmire, also just a challenging novel, but that was pitched very differently from what's actually inside the packaging. I remember talking about it on the show. Like this reads very differently than what the synopsis tells you you're getting into. I am just so curious about what he'll do next. I think there's a lot of, just a lot of potential there for real creativity stories that will take you new places and real critical acclaim.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I've talked about Age of Vice enough that people have heard me talk about Deep Tea Kapoor. But I'm super interested to see what she's going to do next. It was nine years. I haven't read her first book. Age of Ice was the first time she was on a radar. I don't know what that book is. I've been meaning to kind of check it out and see nine years between novels. Maybe that she takes some time. I can see how Age of Ice took some time to figure out. It's a big sprawling family epic. But I'm going to be day and date for whatever she cooks up next. So I'm very interested in Deep deor.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Super fun. What do you think about Melissa Febos?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Too many books.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Too many books.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Too many books.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I feel like she just gets more and more interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, yeah, I mean I, I, I could certainly see it. She's not super well known.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

But she's been, she's had, you know, work that's critically well regarded, gets written up. It doesn't feel like she's at the beginning. I guess it's kind of, I'm thinking about this. Are these writers closer to the beginning or closer to the middle? I think she's in the middle of what she's doing. What else I have on here, I have, I didn't read Rabbit Hutch and I know you didn't love it, but you win a big award in your what? This is hard. A sophomore novel after this is hard. So I'm super interested to see what the gunty verse has in store for us and how it's going to be received and everything else.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm curious if there will be a gunty verse.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Well, there will be a second book. What is that face? How is there not going to be a second book? Who wins the Pulitzer Prize with their debut novel? You know, they disappear. That's like John dead.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Who one hit wonders happen.

[Jeff O'Neill]

There's no reason to think that. Do you know something I don't?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

No.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay. That's such a weird response. We can say that to anyone way. There's going to be another book.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm just doing it, like, oh, I really did not enjoy the rabbit experience.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's whatever the opposite of manifesting it is. That's what you just did.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

What is the opposite of manifesting? Wishing something to never exist.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know. I think it's sabotage. Sabotage? Just go in and erase someone's hard drive overnight.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Metaphysical sabotage.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I've been working on this novel. It's like. But it's like Penelope's weaving, but I'm not doing it myself.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, she's not pulling the yarn out herself every night.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sounds like a George Saunders short story where, like, some writer is like, just every day he wakes up, thinks he's written something and it's just not there in the next day.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I was just thinking about George Saunders the other day, as one does.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Because one does not need a reason. And I feel like we're due for a George Saunders.

[Jeff O'Neill]

When was it?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

A couple years. Just a couple years since we did the ranking of how George Saunders are these. George.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I just want another collection of short stories to do that same format again. It was really fun. I did enjoy that. That was on the Patreon. For those of you who.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay, I'm putting Brandon Taylor on this list.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's an interesting.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And here's why.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Make the case. Yeah, make the case.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

When Real Life came out, his debut, that was everywhere. It was critically acclaimed. It was pretty commercially successful. You're furrowing your brow. Was Real Life not his debut?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Was that the name of it? I thought Real America. Okay, I'm getting something.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

So it's the orange cover. It's like set over one weekend in the summer in Chicago with graduates.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I'm just misremembering the title is all.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, yeah. And that I remember.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Late Americans. Sorry.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. The Late Americans was the next one.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The one Americans was Rachel Kong.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. So Real Life, I remember it just like crackled and there was all this tension and I loved reading it and wondering, like, what is he going to do next? And it felt like this is a debut from a writer who could be really big. And he has gone more into, like, the intellectual, academic kind of fiction, highbrow stuff. Not surprising if you read, like, any of his online essays or his substitute.

[Jeff O'Neill]

They're writing about Zola. Right, Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Or the takedown of Creation Lake.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But I want Brandon Taylor to tilt back towards the real life vibe, towards that, like, crackly. Just a little more accessible. Real Americans was good, but that's a novel about late Americans. Too many Americans in book titles. But the Late Americans is a novel about a bunch of people in an MFA program in the midw west. Like, sleeping with each other and betraying each other. And that is so insular.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We already did Benedictine college in the 80s.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, right. Like, I thought he did it very well, but it feels to me like there are bigger things for Brandon Taylor and I would like to see him do those things and get recognized for those things and be widely read for those things. So he's got. I think he has three books. So he's right on your list here or like right on the line. But I think it's. There's a strong case for keeping an eye on him.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I would love to be surprised, but I kind of feel like I have the Taylor. I. I have a sense of Brandon Taylor.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think I know which direction he's going. At least if he continues with him.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like, you don't have any reason to believe he's gonna zag.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

But you're trying to make girls allowed to dream.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No, I hear you. It's appreciate. Where do I want to go next? There's another question. Jonathan Escoffrey got a lot of shine. I'm not sure it was quite. It was something below great expectation or above great expectations. Like nominated for several awards, but it didn't sell. And breakthrough quite like martyr. So I feel like. I'm not really sure if he goes on to the. We're still in the beginning section.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, I. I think we are.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. It was short stories.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

If you only have one book of short stories getting going from a. I assume next is going to be a novel. Typically you have this much attention. Novel is the next thing.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I am now desperately trying to remember the name of a book that I wanted to feature here and I.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Name of a book or name of an author?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, both. I wanted to think the novel was called the Shallows, but that is the nonfiction book. But it was something Michael taken Represented this book a couple of years ago. Oh, the Furrows Namwali. Yeah, that's who I've. It's like been bubbling around my brain.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's interesting.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And that I think was. That's in a similar zone of like to what Jonathan Escoffery was in with that short story collection. There was critical acclaim, it was on some lists, there was some attention. But I have no idea what Serpell will do next.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, we know that Torrey Peters has another book coming out this year, but Detransition Baby was such a hit. It's so interesting. And I think we talked with Jason maybe about the next. I think I picked it on his show or something like that for books to watch.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh yeah, you did talk about that.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And it's like. It's like a bunch of novellas or it's one novella and some short stories. It feels like a unusual animal when it comes to structure. I know. I think the world is watching insofar as it watches this is all. But this might be the last time Torrey Peters is going to be eligible sort of vibe wise for this list. I'm going to grab Peters while I can.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that's a good choice. I think Tory Peters might really like if this is going to be. If he's going to explode. This is when Torrey Peters explodes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Disha Philia Secret Lives of Church Ladies. Hell of a short story collection.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Really good.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm in for whatever.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Didn't. Didn't she get a big deal?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

She did. Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We haven't seen it yet, so I think you're kind of grabbing before you're getting in early. I'm.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm buying the stock.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, I think that makes sense. I think the stock price might be too high, but Chain Gang All Stars reached almost Martyr level. And Ajay Brenya I. Super fascinating book. I've never read anything like that before. You could tell me the next book is anything and I would believe you. So that's. I. I kind of tailor made for this. My only reservation in this context is that was a bonafide hit. I mean that was this. I think there's a movie stuff going on with that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That was a big book.

[Jeff O'Neill]

If Martyr's my bar, I felt like it came just below Martyr in terms of acclaim and sales, but it's pretty damn close.

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[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, so that's one for me. You got anything else?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I'm gonna. Yeah, I'm gonna buy my Linda Holmes stock while she's only got two books currently out. Don't roll your eyes.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Cheap. We know. Look, I love Linda Holmes books, but we know exactly what they're going to feel like.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. And they're perfect. And she should be famous.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay, you clearly had a different vector here. That's fine, that's fine, that's fine. I would love to sell like Emily Henry.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. That's what I want.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And get one every year. Because you can afford to just spend time writing every year.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right. And now that Sarah Maclean is going to do contemporary romance, if I could get it, like if Sarah Maclean and Linda Holmes could just take turns doing contemporary romance, I would be a happy girl for the rest of my days.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I. This is my. This is. I can double on Frontless Warrior because I got the headshot by Rita Bullwinkle over break. Yeah, yeah, whatever. I. Whatever, man. I'm in for super cool.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. It's so formally interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Interesting. Yeah, that's. I can see why it's not like a huge hit because it's kind of for the real heads out there that read literary fiction. But that's what I'm doing right now with this list, is I'm watching what Rita Bullwinkle is going to rodeo.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Glad by Rita Bullwinkle. Yes. If Rita Bullwinkle just wants to stay in that zone. We did girl boxers. Let's do Girls at the Rodeo.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Girls at the Rodeo. Yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Oh, that's such a good pick.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah. Aren't you?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I am. Good thought.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Okay.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Especially since I was like, yeah, you need to read it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Kind of lay in the weeds with that one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, you did. What do you think about Bali Khor Jazwal with I would like to know who. Erotic stories for Punjabi widows.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

She had one more book after that. They're a little different, which I feel.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Bad that I didn't pick up the next one.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I read it and I remember liking it, but I don't remember nearly as much about the experience as about erotic stories for Punjabi widows. But I think she's interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think actually that makes it more interesting because it's not exactly the same kind of a deal, which is hard to imagine it would be. That's such a good pitch and set up and everything. I think having a B plus after an A absolutely is in the one that watched it. Yeah, I think that's a good pick. I guess this, I think this was more of a B plus for you. Is more of an A minus for me. But I want to really see what Rebecca Riley does next. I really liked Greta and Baldin. I like to spend more time in that voice and head. I don't know much about her biography. I can feel. I feel like this might be a little bit on the Cunningham scale of I used my family personal experience as the structure outline and I guess existential lattice work for this. Where else are you going to go? Usually voice travels like in football. Defense doesn't travels, offense travels. I feel like voice tends to travel from book to book and I was largely there for the voice. Okay, Rebecca Riley goes on.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That's good. I also have a Rebecca. I have Rebecca Nagle for By the Fire We Carry.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I haven't read that. Tell me more about that.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Came out this year. Big deep history of like difficult components of how colonialism affected Native Americans and the things that white colonialists, white colonists did to Native Americans over the last couple of centuries and how it continues. It's really beautifully written. It's not as plotty page turnery as like a David Graham, but I think she could land in a similar zone. I'm really interested in what she will be interested in next because I think it's. I can see two paths. I think it's possible that she might spend her career continuing to write about Native issues and doing that really well. And I would also believe that she will spend her career finding other untold corners of history to burrow into. And that will be interesting and great, but I don't know which one it's going to be. I'm. I'm signed up for whichever.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah, let's see. Where else do I want to go? Got several. You have any more left? I could just run through the rest of mine.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, just run through the rest of yours, I think.

[Jeff O'Neill]

No bump. Who wrote the the New Naturals and then had an earlier novel. I talked with him on First Edition. Really interesting writer. I like his style and approach. This, this most recent one, I didn't see it coming because the first one is very much life story built out of my experience. The new one ends with like, it's about these people putting together an underground utopia.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh, interesting.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And it ends in, like recruiting people, but you never get a sense of it. Like, it was really different than I was expecting, frankly. It's very, very interesting. Kind of half baked, honestly, but I kind of preferred it. It's just something I hadn't seen before and it felt like in a different way that didn't feel so. I really want to see what he's doing next. Daphne Palacio Andrades wrote Brown Girls a few years ago. I know you read.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah, and short stories.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I really love that book. I assume she's working on a novel and I will see whatever. I'm in for that. Similarly, Shannon Sanders, I really liked her short story collection Company set in around the black, middle and upper class in Washington D.C. academics, politicians, strivers. It's all about, you know, basically each short story. It followed this family through life, but each story was a different sort of homecoming or visiting. So, like, they're coming from somewhere. They're not. And those I'm here and I'm in, I'm visiting for a week is always an interesting moment to catch up with people. And because you're close enough that you're visiting, but you're not in their lives. And sometimes the real stuff comes out in those kinds of moments when you're a closer proximity than a text or a phone call away. Oscar Hokez calling for a blanket dance was really terrific a couple years ago. Native American writer. He's. He's 50 and this was his first book. And I think he was maybe a poet or something or came from a different career. So a little later in life. Algonquin title that I really, really liked and got some good acclaim. I think he runs some awards and I think it sold enough to get him a second book, which for someone's debut, that's all you're really looking for. That's great, honestly, is to get a second book. The love songs of W.B. du Bois, which came out a couple years ago. Honore Jeffers People forget. I think that was a debut. Huge. I finally read it after the fact. It's really good. I want to mind it. It was 200 page shorter. But.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

That'S fair.

[Jeff O'Neill]

What I mean.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think that's probably why it's kind of been forgotten. Like my guess is more copies of that book were bought than read or bought Intimidated.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And just how many people wave themselves off at the store. Yeah, yeah.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It's physically and emotionally heavy, but super.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Accomplished and seem more mature than a debut. For sure. I guess that's my list. Yeah. I think I got to everybody there.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I got a couple more that like shook out of my memory while you were talking. Nina McLaughlin, who wrote Hammerhead.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That's been a while. Rebecca.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. She's done a couple little like small like chapbook essay things. One about the winter solstice and one about the summer solstice. They're lovely. But I want to know what Nina McLaughlin is going to do next. She's just interesting. What are you thinking about? Nina McLaughlin, please write 300 pages about it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Are you interested in rodeos?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Nina McLaughlin becoming a rodeo writer would be amazing because. Yeah, Hammerhead is. I gave up my life as a writer to become a carpenter and then write about it. And so maybe. I don't know. She's interesting. I'm sure she's got stories. And Danielle Henderson, who's not, whose memoir the Ugly Cry came out around the same time that Ashley Ford's Somebody's Daughter came out. And I think the synopses for the books were similar enough and the marketing for Somebody's Daughter was so much bigger that the Ugly Cry just did not get enough breathing room and enough attention. But Henderson is hilarious and a really sharp writer. She's a great substack called Orgasms and Revenge, which, like, how do you not like somebody who titles their substack that? And she's apparently working on another book. So I'm ready for whatever she does next. I think it's just an interesting and surprising writer.

[Jeff O'Neill]

We could. We got five more minutes. What about authors? They could be whatever. They don't have to be early career that you're like. I'm so interested to see what they do next because they're an interesting spot. Does anyone come to mind for you for that?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I feel that way about Jonathan Evison. I like almost everything he does and I can never guess what the pitch for the next book will be. I think Maggie Shipstead is also on an interesting, surprising trajectory. I'll be curious about her hmm.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The reason I thought about this, I was looking at recent, highly acclaimed debut novels and I saw we the Animals by Justin Torres. Like, he went there to Blackouts, and I'm like, I have no idea what he's gonna do next. That book is so interesting and so different. Like, I really don't know what's coming and I don't want to put the ZD's in the Coulson's because, like, we now know.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Kind of what that is. But I don't feel like I have enough data points to draw a line for Torres.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I feel that way also maybe about Marie Helene Bertino. Like, there's similar DNA in 2am at the Cat's Pajamas, three books in, and Beauty Land. Yeah. And Exit Zero is short stories coming out later this spring. I think I understand her sensibility, but I will be. I think she has some surprises in her about how that sensibility is going to be expressed that I'll be. I'll be curious about her. Rachel Kong. I'm really interested in, like, just interesting, I think interesting trajectory and real Americans landed in a pretty big way.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Brit Bennett. I'd say Mother's in Vanishing. Half vanishing of this huge book. It's been a little while, so I'm sure she's got something cooking. I think she might have been siren songed into LA stuff, which is great. I hope everyone's enjoying themselves. But for our purposes here, that's.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And similarly, I mentioned Angela Flournoy on an episode last week. And we know she's got book deals, but we don't know what the books are about. And the Turner house was great. Like, you know, what more do you or I want than a get the gang back together. The family is all coming together for solving some problems and all the drama's coming out, but I don't know what she's going to do next. And I'm, you know, if, like, how we have the idea of. Wouldn't it be great if you could just subscribe and every year macmillan would send you the best American series. Like, if I could just subscribe to, like, Angela Flournoy. And when she has new books come out, they would just appear. I would do it.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Right. And that's saying something for one book. I mean, I'm not kidding.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. The Turner house is fantastic.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I know the book is coming, but. Katabasis. Katabasis. I really have to decide how I'm going to do this.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Yeah. Didn't we get some Greek scholars who emailed us with how it works?

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah but I can't remember are we.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Going to spend that year just being like I guess this summer going the new RF Kwong maybe we'll just do.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Like a Kafka or it's just kidding.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Dash but yeah what's the symbol that like the term for that kind of symbol that like Prince used to have yeah yeah we'll just make up a symbol for this book we can't pronounce.

[Jeff O'Neill]

The as I just learned the symbol for when you do like the square root of something is called the viniculum so good word. Yeah it's a really good word.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I like that one too like I need someone to pronounce katapisis or however for me and just like 15 times in a row and get it in.

[Jeff O'Neill]

My head I bet this so I bet if we logged on to the Soc we could get some people saying things yeah to us anything else you want to anyone else in the really have no idea what they're going to do next but I'm super interested list that come to mind We I didn't we didn't do any homework so we're.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Nobody off the dome for that No.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I think yeah Jesse I guess we began she went historical epic multiple generations to fairly small you know individual perspective quite a telescoping vision which means that anywhere in between or a spectrum is.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Sort of in play and certainly like confident and very skillful.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yes so yeah that's a really good one well Charles Yu I mean coming off of Interior Chinatown I don't Forget a season 2 but like what's going to go on what's he going to.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Write next and wa Su was stay true too big to to make Wazoo acceptable for this list because it is just one book and it was very personal so like now that he has told his personal story what else I.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Don'T know is there is there another personal story just or does he get sucked into doing a novel or are we happy at the New Yorker I.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Will be happy wherever he wants to write.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Yeah I'd like I would I would.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Read I would love another book length.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Something yeah how about our old friend Florence Williams coming off we haven't heard of heartbreak's been a few years yeah the rodeo audio audiobook the Rodeo I.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Love that you're just on the rodeo tip today.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Hey look a good eye now a good idea now is a good idea forever.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Okay so in the showdown of the rodeo books Florence Williams Bianca Bosker or who was the third one that we were kicking around Rita.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Rita bullwinklewinkle.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Well, Rita Bullwinkle can be. She can be in her own corner because that would be a novel.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I mean I think that the Florence Williams style again, audio first where you have the stuff. The audio from the rodeo would be on. It would be believable.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

It would be great.

[Jeff O'Neill]

And she did a little the adventure stuff like she's out. She's out kayaking and you know, a bull is just basically a land kayak. If you think about it. Bucking around rapids are kayak on a.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Rapid just a bull is just a.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Land kayak or is a kayak a river bull? Kayak probably means river bull in some language.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Oh. All this rodeo talk has reminded me, I think from following her on social that Tressi McMillan Cottam is doing something around like country, like black country culture.

[Jeff O'Neill]

That would make a ton of sense.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

Right. And if she wants to go to the rodeo.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Sure.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

And interrogate like rodeo culture and standards of beauty and how rodeos have historically been coded as white. But what it means to be a black cowboy like that you take all my money.

[Jeff O'Neill]

Now what about a reality show about five women writers all trying to write books about the rodeo? Would you watch that?

[Rebecca Schinsky]

I think it's called writing writing.

[Jeff O'Neill]

It's called passing the buck.

[Rebecca Schinsky]

We should quit now. Maybe ahead.

[Jeff O'Neill]

I don't know what happened. BookRide.com Listen podcastookride.com if you've got writers, you are especially interested in what they're going to do next. We could maybe do some follow up there. Rebecca, we'll talk to you later.