B (2:29)

I don't know. And the only reason I believe it's five years is because I very vividly remember Lily. Our oldest now was a very young baby. She was like 8 months old when we started this. So I'm like, wow, she's like gonna be in first grade. So that's how I know time has passed, but in my head, it doesn't feel like it.

A (2:50)

It's crazy. How. How are you two doing? How. How's reading life and podcasting life going?

C (2:59)

Fabulous.

B (3:01)

Excellent. Yeah, no complaints here. We were just trying to figure out earlier, too. I'm like, has it been two years with Hannah? So, like, it's nicely timed. May makes two years, I believe.

C (3:11)

Yeah. I joined the podcast exact almost exactly two years ago. Yeah, I got to do one episode with the three of us, which was fun and it's so funny. That was such a core memory for me that I. I still remember every single book that I brought to that episode. Oh, my loving lately. I'm like, I don't remember anything else, but, like, that episode was such a core memory that I'm like, oh, I brought the berry pickers and I brought my Rytek pens and oh, my gosh,

B (3:36)

I do remember those Rytech pens. I think we bought some on your recommendation.

C (3:40)

Yeah, they're still my favorite. I just bought a few myself.

A (3:43)

But.

C (3:43)

But, yeah, podcast has been so fun and. But I also. I also do. I admit, I do miss as being a listener, like, listening to you too, and so I do miss that it's both. But it's been so fun to join Tina and talk books.

B (4:02)

So it's funny, right? Like, I. I can't separate myself from that, but I imagine it is a weird experience to have listened to a show for three years and be like, oh, I'm now on the show. Right? Like, and we don't. I don't listen to our episodes. I mean, I'll listen to bits and pieces here and there. Sorry, Jonathan, I know you do a great job in the final cut, but I just don't go back and listen because I was like, well, I was there, so I can imagine that being a interesting experience. We will definitely talk more about, you know, we'll reminisce and talk more a bit about the past and sort of what we're doing now and what Renee has been up to. But first, if it's all the same to you, all I'm going to dive into our loving lately is because I have the loving lately to end all Loving lately is. I'm so excited. I am so excited. And specifically, okay, so I've been saying this past several episodes that I have been looking for a loving lately. Like, I feel like I need to. Just as I do reading for this show. I'm like, okay, I really need to dive in and find a New loving lately that I could really bring and be excited about. And my favorite type of loving lately to bring is a podcast for folks to get hooked on. So I have a new podcast for listeners to get hooked on. Thank you to a cat and her dogs for recommending this to me. They sent me a DM and I was kind of like, huh, I don't know, but I'll explain. Renee, I think you will especially like this one because it starts with something that happened to a former bachelor. Okay.

A (5:37)

Oh, yes.

B (5:39)

All right. So the podcast, I. I've teased it enough. The podcast is Love Trapped. Have you heard of this?

A (5:47)

I haven't.

B (5:48)

Either of you. Okay. Oh, I'm so excited. Okay. Okay. So this is. I'm not kidding when I say one of the best podcasts I've ever listened to. Obviously present company excluded. But Love Trapped is so good. It's from I Heart Podcasts and Glass Podcasts. And okay. The reason why, when this. When Kat DM'd me about it, I was like, oh, I don't know. It's because I looked at the COVID and the bachelor in question is Clayton Eckert. Do you remember Clayton season?

A (6:17)

Yes.

B (6:18)

Clayton.

C (6:19)

Very disliked. He is.

B (6:21)

He was very disliked. Exactly. He ended up having three women in the final. I feel like he said I love you to some of them. He's left with more than one. And it was a whole debacle.

C (6:33)

Wasn't there like a blow up in the final? Their wife, one of them like walked away or watched the season. But I remember seeing clips of this.

B (6:41)

You are up to date, babe, so that's all you really need to know. But I will say, even if you don't like the Bachelor, you'll like this podcast. So it is a 10 part podcast and it's an investigative series that just came out this February and it follows former bachelor Clayton Eckard's fight to expose a paternity scam. And the host is fabulous. Her name is Stephanie Young and she is wonderful. She did an excellent job in the podcast. Details how Eckard was entangled in a web of lies by a woman named Laura Owens, who fabricated pregnancies and harassed multiple men. Okay, when I tell you I spent my entire Sunday listening to this, I'm not kidding. Every dish in the house was clean. I had meal prepped for days. And I was just in this. The one thing I will say is there's too many ads. But that's okay. By the end, I was like, I don't even care. Just, I'm riding the 15 second skip button because I had to know how this was going to end. And again I, when I saw that it was about Clayton, I groaned a little bit cause I was like, he's not my favorite guy. But you know, whatever. The podcast picks up several years later, like she's sort of talking to him and in the very beginning he's like, I don't know if you can handle this to Stephanie, the host. And I'm like, how bad could it be? Shut up, Clayton. Well, I see why he said that. It picks up several years after the Bachelor when he is starting to live in Scottsdale, Arizona. He's working as a real estate agent and this woman cold DMs him on LinkedIn and she's like, like, hey, I'm interested in buying property. This and that. One thing leads to another and they end up having a one night dalliance. It's important to say that it was not a one night stand, it was a one night dalliance. I will let you use your imagination about what happened. I'm not going to say it on our podcast, but the podcast tells you what went down. And it's important because it makes sense when you're, when you're listening to this. What stems from the first episode is what five star thrillers are made of. In fact, if you read what happened to Clayton and the other people involved in a book, you'd be like, this is unbelievable. That would never happen. No one is this crazy. The host did a great job and she really just presents you with the facts. I feel like I'm more editorializing and reacting to it more so than she did. Like, she did a really good job of just giving you just enough. And through the last episode, at the time I listened, there was only nine. I think the tenth just came out. But I was like, there's no way. There's. How are there more episodes? There can't be more to this story. Oh, but there are. And at first I thought this was going to be kind of a story we've heard before where somebody tries to trap somebody famous. But it's so much more than that. It's about online harassment, gaslighting, lies, deceit. I mean, it gets into everything. And I can't wait. If you are someone that likes to wait until a podcast, like a short, limited series podcast has all the episodes available. I do think they're all out now. So dive in, baby. Enjoy. I walked away loving Clayton, which is a weird thing to say because he was not my favorite. I love Gabby, Windy, who was one of the ladies that got hurt by him. So I'm like, Clayton, whatever. You know, he. His name was mud to many of the Bachelor viewers. But I'm walking away being like, poor Clayton, which is very strange to say. Anyway, read. Listen to this, Listen to this, and please report back. I'm happy to chat. I loved it so much. It was Love Trapped, a podcast.

C (10:04)

Oh, good one.

A (10:06)

All right. Added to the. The old podcast list. I have not heard of that at all. I didn't mind him. I mean, I think he got himself in a lot of hot water by the end. Yeah, but that sounds. That sounds crazy.

B (10:24)

It's so good. I loved it so much. They also. In the first episode. The first episode's more Bachelor centric than all the others. They bring Susie on and ask Susie about Clayton. So I was like, oh, Susie. I remember. Like, it was. I don't know, it was, like, nice to get a little bit of the peeling back behind the curtain of the Bachelor, you know, I love my reality tv. Anyway. Highly recommend. I think any. Either of you would love it. And most listeners.

C (10:48)

Yeah, I. I know that I would really enjoy that. And I. I've started kind of putting podcasts on my to be listened list on my. On my phone, and so I'm happy to add another one to the pile.

B (11:01)

Never too many. Really.

A (11:03)

Yeah.

C (11:03)

Renee, what do you have for us?

A (11:06)

Okay. I was re. I realized when I was prepping, I. I was like, oh, my gosh. This was the heart. How did I do a loving lately? Every single week. But I wanted to. I wanted to really zero in on reading something, you know, reading focused. And so it was perfect timing for this because I discovered this online bookstore in the United Kingdom. Now, others may have heard of this. I never did. I just ordered from them. It's called Mr. B's Emporium of Reading Delights. Has. Have either of you heard of this?

C (11:41)

No.

A (11:42)

It's an independent. Oh, go ahead. I know. Isn't that great? It's an independent bookstore in Bath, United Kingdom. The reason I found this. I was on the hunt for this new. You will Tina, Hannah, you might both be shocked by this. I was on the hunt for this new adult graphic novel, and it's. It's rec. By Alison Stewart. The reason I wanted this book is because I read her graphic novel called Allison. No, what is her graphic. Yeah, is it called Allison? Okay, either way, now I'm blanking on it, but her new book is called Wreck, and this was literally the only place that I could Find this book. And it came up in a Google search. Blackwell's didn't have it. Nowhere had this book. And so I was iffy because I'd never heard of it. But they have an amazing website, so I thought, okay. And they offer worldwide shipping. That was. That was the kicker. So I ordered it. I don't have it yet, but they have shipped it. They have excellent customer service, but here's why I'm bringing this. I ended up going back on their website, doing a little, like, browsing of the site. They have book lists they have. Which contain books I've never heard of. And then if you scroll all the way down to the bottom of their homepage, you can click something called a recommendation, and it will ask or five really excellent book questions about your reading, what you've been reading specifically, like, certain things. So it can. It can get a feel for your. Your reading taste. And then within 24 hours, one of their booksellers emailed me back personalized book recommendations.

B (13:37)

Oh, my God.

A (13:38)

And I got four of them.

C (13:39)

So cool. I know.

A (13:40)

I. I mean, isn't that great customer service? And I really enjoyed the book recommendations, if you're wondering. I think they were pretty accurate based on the books that I gave them in my answers. They recommended Heart the Lover by Lily King, which I already read and loved. They also recommended the Death of Us by Abigail Dean, which I own, but I haven't read, so I feel like that's a good, good one. And then they reckon they recommended one that I'd never heard of. Sounds right up my alley. It's called the Missing by Tim Gaultrow. And of course, it's a missing child. And it's set during the Prohibition era, which I did not put in my answer, but I love that time period. And the last recommendation was for all the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whitaker, which I DNF'd, but I can see why they recommended that. So I love. I love this. Now it's a new place to order books from. They do charge for shipping, but still, if you can't find something, yeah, maybe it's an option. It's Mr. B's Emporium of Reading Delights.

C (14:53)

Oh, my gosh. What a great free resource, too, to get people excited about your shop and provide a free resource that will get people there. But that doesn't, you know, put you out too much or cost you anything, really, except for time. I'm sure those booksellers have to, you know, spend 30 minutes or an hour every day doing that. But it's also what they already do day to day, which is recommendation personalized books for people. So what a cool thing to have. I'm looking at it right now and it's called Mr. B's recommendation station, which I love.

A (15:29)

They have a great website.

C (15:30)

Yeah, yeah, the website looks really nice.

B (15:33)

And apologies in advance to Mr. B, because I'm sure they're going to get an influx of us. Just like what, what book should I request? Because I definitely want to fill this out here in a bit.

A (15:44)

Well, of course she'll be added to their email list, which is fine with me. I, I'm happy. I want to get their newsletter now and see, I mean, what's going on. There's always, there's always books coming out in the United Kingdom that are way ahead of us or. Yeah. Under the radars, you know, I love those.

B (16:02)

Yeah, very true.

C (16:03)

Okay. My loving lately. I'm glad that we had a, a bookish loving lately to sandwich in between because I'm also bringing a podcast.

A (16:11)

Oh.

C (16:12)

And. But it's a, it's a different. If it's a different type of podcast. Typically I listen to a lot of true crime and bookish related podcasts and this is different. It is called Two Hot Takes and this is a very conversational style podcast which I've been looking for more just fun, comedy focused conversational podcasts that I'm actually interested in. A lot of times with the more topical podcasts that I listen to, I'll skip through the conversational bits. I'm just like, I want to get to the true crime story or I want to get to the book recommendations. But also I've been looking for a more like chit, chatty, funny type podcast that I'm genuinely interested in and I finally found one. And how I found it was so funny. I was literally just scrolling Instagram and then I saw a video clip because technically this is a video style podcast. They are on YouTube which I will link. You can also listen just on your podcast app. But they're at. Actually, I think their main starting platform was YouTube. It's a video style podcast and they show short clips from their stories on Instagram. And really the whole layout of this podcast is they read through some of Reddit's most wild stories and then they have commentary on it. They share like, well, this is what I thought. Well, this is what I think. And then after they kind of share their own commentary, they read through some of the comments on the Reddit post and then if the op has concluded, the story or come back or given a follow up, they read that. So I just love that premise. I love Reddit. I spend way too much time in there, but it's so fun.

A (17:55)

They.

C (17:55)

They read a lot of AMTA posts. Those are kind of the primary ones that they. That they read on the podcast. But anyway, I saw a clip that was scrolling through my Instagram feed, and it was just a wild story. But of course, they only shared, like, the first part of it, and I already was like, I want to know more about what happened with this story. And so I tried to find that episode on their podcast list, and I did end up finding it, but then I just started listening and listening and listening, and I went through, like, four episodes, which my one complaint. They are long, so you either have to be able to listen on a faster speed or you can break it up. I was breaking it up where if I needed to cut it off at like, 45 minutes, I would just stop before they would go through another Reddit thread. That way I wasn't losing myself it, like, right in the middle of a story. Because they usually read three or four threads per episode. Some of the episodes are two hours long.

B (19:02)

Oh, dear.

C (19:03)

No, they're very long. So you really have to break them up. My favorite episode so far of the ones that I've listened to was one of the more recent ones called don't be a Heckler with comedian Lucas Zelnick. He was really funny, but also just a very compassionate and kind person. And some of the conversations that they had, even about relationships and, you know, just things like that were really great conversations, and I really enjoyed hearing them talk together. So I really enjoyed this very. Just chill. Listening to two people scroll Reddit conversational podcast. They're also on YouTube, and that is two hot takes.

B (19:46)

Look at us bringing podcast recommendations. I love that. And I did not. I don't know that I knew you were a Redditor. As much as it sounds like you might.

C (19:55)

I've never posted on Reddit before.

B (19:56)

You're just a lurker, which.

C (19:58)

I'm a lurker.

B (19:59)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who among us hasn't lurked on a Reddit thread a time or two? Wow, that was a lot. Great, great response, Tina. Great response. Sorry about that.

C (20:10)

Wow.

B (20:12)

Wow. Okay. I'm thrown because of the format. I don't know what it is. I'm having trouble. So we did our loving lately. Now we're going to do ladies as though it is not our usual format. What is wrong with my brain?

C (20:24)

There's an extra cook in the kitchen.

B (20:26)

Today there's an extra cook in the kitchen. So, yeah, you're right. I'm. I'm. And I'm responding. I actually have two responses, but both are things that I'm like, oh, I'm gonna bring that as a future loving lately. So that's what I was trying to

C (20:36)

process, because I was like, write it down, girl.

B (20:38)

Oh, it's down. Oh, it's down. That's gonna be one coming up to an episode near you. All right, so we will follow our typical format, as we tend to do, and begin with our latest reads. And my latest read, this is one that I can't believe that I have not read yet. I was doing a vlog for my YouTube on thriller authors that I haven't read. I asked on social media and everywhere, people to name their favorite thriller authors, and I was reading ones that I haven't read yet, and Seraphina Nova Glass came up a couple times, and I was like, great. I've never read. Read her. Let me see what's. What she's about. So I read this one here. It's called On a Quiet Street. She. Seraphina Nova Glass. Have either of you read this?

C (21:22)

I read my first Seraphina Nova Glass recently, which I brought to the show.

B (21:26)

You didn't care for it?

C (21:28)

Yeah, I didn't love it.

B (21:29)

Yeah, you didn't love it. Renee, did you like this one?

A (21:32)

Yes, I did. I feel like. When did I. I. I can't remember when I read that. I might have read that when I was still on the show. How old?

B (21:40)

You may have? Yeah, I think 20, 22. Oh, I didn't know where I heard of it. Maybe you're where I've heard of it. So, listeners, you're getting a new review.

A (21:50)

I can't. I can't remember what I thought about it, but I know I liked it.

B (21:54)

Yes. Okay, so here's why I grabbed it. I was like, okay, it was on Kindle Unlimited, whatever. I'm like, let me go for it. It has a ton of reviews. Like, people have read this book quite a bit and has a very high rating. So this is about a community called Brighton Hills, and. And it's in Oregon, which doesn't really play a role because I was reading the back. I was like, was it really in Oregon? I don't remember that being a thing, but it is. And this neighborhood is the perfect mix of luxury and natural beauty. Of course, they have stunning houses. They've got beautiful backyards, and it's the Kind of place where neighbors look out for each other. Sometimes they pay attention a little too closely. You've got three main characters in this, in three different points of view. One is Cora. Cora is a very sweet woman and she is a housewife and really loves that role. And the problem is she feels diminished by her husband. And she also thinks that her husband is cheating, and this would not be the first time. So she really wants to try and catch him in the act and get his story straight because she wants to know what he's up to. And then Paige comes in. Paige is a very. Just acerbic type character. She's dealing with a lot of grief in her own way. She's in the very first scene telling off the. I think the mailman. She's like in her yard smoking a cig. Like a really funny character, but she's dealing with a ton of grief because she lost her son to a hit and run accident the prior year. And so she is kind of being reckless. She's drinking a lot, she's spying on people and really obsessed with the idea that her son's death was not an accident. Then she and Cora get together and they're like, you know what? Let's. Let's catch Finn in the act. You know, she's like, this will give me something to do. And they decide to try and catch Cora's husband in the act. The other point of view is that of Georgia, who is a young mother who lives across the street from Cora. And Cora's like, something's up. She doesn't come out very much, and something just seems to be going on over there. But they seem like a happy family, so what could possibly go wrong? And that's sort of where I will leave it. I can't believe how much I enjoyed this. I think this is one of the top domestic thrillers that I've read. I was just in it. It's rich people behaving badly, but it's got depth. There's definitely issues that people are dealing with. And it's not just, oh, I'm mad because she flirted with him. It starts with the cheating thing, but she takes it. The author takes it into very interesting directions. Where I was like, you can't do that. Like, it was. It was fun for me actually to, like, watch everything go down. It does take a little bit of detours throughout and goes into directions that I wasn't expecting. And the best part is the ending is what made it for me. You know, how sometimes you're, like, enjoying the reading experience. But the end, you're like, eh. I thought the ending for this one was really, really good. And what has bumped it up to five stars for me? I'm going to go ahead and give this a five star recommendation. I highly recommend it. I want to read more by this author and see if I can find another win. But anyway, this one is On a Quiet street by Seraphina Nova Glass.

C (24:56)

Oh, I'm glad that that specifically the ending worked for you because I think I spoiled you on the ending for the one that I got. And you agreed, you were like, okay, I agree.

B (25:07)

It's my least favorite way to end a book, period.

C (25:10)

So I felt like affirmed. I was like, oh, maybe it's just me because like, I don't like a lot of thriller endings. But you were like, no, I agree. That's not it.

B (25:18)

That's not a good end.

C (25:19)

And you're the thriller aficionado. So, you know, I took the crown from Renee.

B (25:26)

I feel like I leaned into it more after we. I was like, I gotta bring the people what they like.

A (25:30)

Oh, that's funny.

C (25:31)

But this ending worked.

B (25:33)

So. Yes.

A (25:34)

When you were talking about reading thrillers that people had recommended, immediately I was like, I hope Tina, I hope it might be Michael Corita. But okay, I, I'm happy it's Seraphina Nova Glass. I think she's super under the radar. I've read three of her books. I just looked them up quick because I was like, I know, I read others. Such a. Such a fun wife is. I gave that five stars. Such a.

B (26:02)

Such a good wife.

A (26:03)

Such a good wife. Yes. Such a good wife. Five stars. Love that. And then I read. Yes. I read the Vanishing Hour and I think I gave that 4.5. So I think she's solid. I. I don't. I'm not quite sure why she's so under the radar.

C (26:21)

Well, maybe I just need to give one of her other classic, more classic thrillers a shot.

B (26:27)

Yes.

C (26:27)

Did you hear about the new one that came out, Renee called the Swamps? Did you hear about that?

A (26:32)

Oh, no, the Swamps. No.

C (26:35)

You know, so maybe it's like also not her normal format.

A (26:39)

Yeah, I don't think a novella is her normal format.

B (26:43)

She also has another one though, too close to home that I think maybe

A (26:46)

that's what I thought you were going to ask about. I have a copy of that.

C (26:50)

Okay. Yeah. Because her other more traditional thrillers, I'm looking at the ratings there and they're high, like 4.2, 4.3. So. So, man, I Had a bad start. I'm gonna try again. We're gonna scratch that one and we're gonna try again.

A (27:02)

Wait, I think that's a good idea, Renee.

B (27:05)

Okay, so you want me to read Michael Corita. Can you tell me which one? Which one should I go for?

A (27:11)

Well, when you're in the. When you're ready. It depends on your mood, because I would say for you, either start with never far away.

B (27:23)

Okay. Love it.

A (27:24)

Because there is a mother at the center of that story, I think. I'm pretty sure. I feel like you like mother stories. Mother stories, especially thrillers. And she's a really strong character and she puts her kids first, so much so that she vanishes from their life to keep them safe. And there's, you know, there's wilderness aspect to it, which makes it all the more thrilling. So maybe, maybe I would say that one. Okay. So my other one, I always recommend to people who are starting out with him if you want fast paced. I've talked. I know I've talked about this on the show. Those who wish me dead.

B (28:10)

Yes, that.

A (28:11)

I know that's. That's a.

B (28:12)

For sure.

A (28:13)

But give never far away a try.

B (28:17)

I will. Thank you. Personalized book recommendations. Appreciate that.

C (28:21)

And adding so many books to, I'm sure so many people's TBRs, that is so exciting. Always a fun time. Okay. My latest read is a nonfiction book which I've been reading more of this year. And I love that for me and my reading life, it is called psychobabble viral mental health myths and the truth to set you free by Joe Nucci. And this was put on my radar because I follow Joe Nucci on Instagram specifically and on social media. And he's just a really interesting follow, especially as it pertains to kind of the mental health and therapy counseling, psychotherapy space online. He just has a different perspective than I think a lot of people are bringing. And this specific book shares his truth and valuable research as he discusses common mental health myths and replaces them with accessible guidance for real healing in your own life and your relationships. And he wrote this book because of the popularization of mental health content on social media, which, you know, he believes has led to this epidemic of mental health information. And in this book, he argues that too many people are self diagnosing, improperly, deploying therapy speak, and even coaching others to engage in harmful activities under the guise of self care. He dismantles 40 misconceptions such as your feelings are credible, people gaslight you when they disagree with you, mindfulness is good for everyone. Everyone has trauma. And he talks about how misinformation encourages really well meaning individuals to make consequential life decision decisions based on false beliefs or not having the right context from a licensed professional and advice from unlicensed armchair experts. He really calls this out and replaces these myths with kind of more of the full context of what he believes to be true and things that can really help readers avoid misinformation online and navigate those important philosophical debates and better maneuver their own mental health journeys. And he shares client examples and evidence based psychological theories theory and he draws from reputable studies and research for all of these myths that he discusses. So like I mentioned before, I really enjoy watching Joe's content on Instagram. I really like that he, he really seems to be a very compassionate individual who sees the nuance in a lot of black and white statements that are made about mental health online. And I don't think that everything that Joe Nucci believes is 100% true. I mean we can't say that about really anyone, right? And he will even tell you other professional clinicians in his field don't always agree with him either. And throughout the book he will put two opinions down, one his, one from a fellow clinician and allow you to not necessarily form an opinion of your own, but just to see two different sides of the same coin and have context for maybe different opinions based both based on sound research and knowledge within the field. And I like it when someone is confident in their approach and belief system while also acknowledging that other people have a different set of belief systems and think that other things are more important or more valuable or true. And this was, this book was fun because I consume a lot of mental health content online and he does a lot of therapist name dropping of really popular like therapists and clinicians that do content online like Matthias Barker from the Trauma Institute, Brene Brown and Jeff from Therapy Jeff. And that was just fun to hear, you know, about his conversations that he's had with these other really popular mental health experts. The myths that I found the most interesting personally were trauma made you an empath. Hurt people, hurt people. People aren't evil, they're just mentally ill. And therapists psychoanalyze everyone they meet. In those particular essays and myths that he wrote, I thought that he brought a lot of thoughtful reflection on things that I had never thought of in certain ways before and that I thought was just new valuable information for me in a way that I just had never thought about these topics before. Again, I don't agree with him on everything. I do find his perspective thoughtful and fresh, and I appreciate that he isn't unwilling to just just say the hard thing sometimes, even if it definitely will not be a popular opinion. I am not a licensed professional, so I'm coming at all of this as just a fellow citizen and mental health content consumer who finds these topics interesting. I in no way can come at this with a professional lens. I haven't heard many clinicians or therapists talk about this book, so I don't know what that says. I don't know if it would be taboo for them to do so. But I can tell you that from Goodreads there are a lot of licensed professionals who believe both deeply agree with his perspective and lens and also those who deeply disagree with his work. So take that for what you will maybe do your own research on if you want to read this yourself. But either way, this was a really interesting look at some viral topics that a lot of psych influencers talk about online that might be causing some misconceptions on how we look at mental health. So that was psychobabble Viral Mental Health Myths and the Truth to set you free by Joe Nucci.

B (34:10)

Well, I can say I looked him up on. I looked him up on LinkedIn because I'm like, who is this guy? Does he have a license? Where did he go to school? Look legit. This seems to be the, you know, he passes muster. Yeah, no, that sounds interesting. I do appreciate psychology content. I always teach about myths in psychology because there's always so many things that sound right, like, oh, like hurt people. Hurt people. Yeah, that sounds right. And like, what does I'm always trying to like encourage my students to be like, okay, but what does the research say? Or we do think that because it's popular and buzzy and people say it. Or is it actually, does the research suggest it's true?

C (34:48)

Well, and to his point too, that I and he expounds on this a little bit, but he was like, well, everybody's been hurt before and you know, and maybe not all of it is trauma, or maybe not all of it is a certain level of hurt. And that was another thing I thought that it was interesting that he mentioned in in the essay about people are not evil, they're just mentally ill, where he really talks about his personal belief, which is that everybod has the capacity for good and bad, but whether or not you choose to act on that is what actually makes you a quote unquote good or bad person. And obviously he expounds on that and goes into the, you know, philosophical debate on what is good and bad and all of that stuff.

B (35:31)

Yeah, yeah.

C (35:31)

It's all just really interesting. I just find it all really, really interesting and fascinating. And he really goes there, so.

B (35:38)

Well, good. I'm glad you found that one. All right, Renee, it's time. We want to know what is your latest read?

A (35:46)

Okay, I have a great latest read. I. I'm wondering if either one of you have read this. It's Kingfisher by Rosie Kelly and it came out last year. That's why I said that's. It was published in April of 2025. I thought it was published in April of 2026 because it's been shortlisted for the 2026 Women's Prize for Fiction, which is where I found it. And I have no idea how. I never heard a word about this book until this short list. Oh, my gosh. I think that you both would be interested in this. I listened to it. I will say audio is the way to go. This is about a creative writing academic who becomes infatuated with his colleague, who he refers to as the poet. And it's not long before this begins to threaten his own relationship with his partner, Michael. And what we know about Michael real quick. Michael is beautiful. Michael is safe. He's been with Michael for a while, but they have a very complicated relationship. And then he sees the poet and all of a sudden, she is everything he thinks he wants and he must. He's, like, fixated. And as his fixation kind of grows, he's not. He's not a stalker, though I do want to make that clear. I thought maybe he was in the beginning, he will come across like that. But his fixation ends up growing into something more powerful, more intimate, and the poet becomes his kingfisher, which I didn't know what that was, but it is a fish. And she becomes his sole focus. And then two things happen. I've completely shifted and changed the synopsis because I think it gives way too much away. But two things happen in the story and those things will shift everything that he thought he knew. He will be forced to reckon with himself, what he owes others, what others owe him. It is a very. It's a poignant story, which I had no idea it was so poignant. It's about grief, it's about identity, it's about friendship, and it's about love. That's what I want to say about it, because if you listen to this, even in the opening scene, which the narration by Dan Bottomley was excellent British narration. There's British humor sprinkled throughout. I was taking a really long bike ride last weekend and I'm like writing and laughing throughout and then, and then also I ended. I ended the story in tears. What I will say the language from the main character can be a bit crude and you will find that out from the get go. He likes to use the F word. If you do not like that in your, in your ears or on the page, I think it'd be easier to skip if it bothers you on the page, but you're going to hear it in your ears. It was a little jarring to hear the author start the book with. With him speaking like that. But it tracks once we get to know him. And I. I keep referring to him because I reached the end of the book and I was like do I know his name? Turns out we don't. And I there. So I thought that was a really curious choice by her. But. But what I will say about this, this is the type of story that perfectly illustrates what it means when you hear other people say that every word counts. The author never veers off from the characters the story. And by doing so it created a super fast momentum. Although make no mistake, this is a literary story. This is square in literary fiction. I couldn't get what I couldn't wait to get back to listening when I had to stop. And there is a friendship story at the heart of this too. And a character will be brought in and her name is Jessica who is the main character's best friend. Their dynamic was perfection. I found myself wishing by at the end that someday we'd get a book with a spin off with Jessica. That's how good of a side character she was. And at 212 pages this book is so short. I had such an emotional experience from start to finish. I think it's brilliant. I would have happily read at least 50 more pages. But I will say the ending is impactful. I'm not mad it was this short. I would have just really loved More so that one is Kingfisher by Rosie Kelly.

C (40:44)

I just bought that one.

B (40:46)

Yay.

A (40:46)

Oh you did?

C (40:48)

Yeah, because it was on the. The women's prize list and I I had suddenly been seeing so many reviews like it's suddenly I just popping up probably because of the list mostly from my feed on Instagram from creators in the UK but. But I've been seeing it a little bit more in the US too since the list came out. So really loved getting to hear you talk about It. And that you loved it so much. I'll have to maybe grab the audio as well.

A (41:17)

Yeah, the audio is excellent. And if you like, especially if you like British narration. And I know from my light Googling after I finish that she is British, I believe, and I know she lives in the United Kingdom, so that tracks. But the way that she incorporated just the subtle British humor, I, you know, you can just tell when somebody, when an author knows what they're doing. It was so good. I mean, if I had one teeny tiny criticism, it would be the. It would be that when you're listening, he calls the poet. The poet throughout the entire book. So that's repetitive. Yes, exactly. But I mean, that's minor. It doesn't impact.

B (42:06)

You had that same critique for my husband from.

A (42:09)

Yes.

B (42:11)

Who wrote My husband. Yes. Maude Dixon is fictional. Yes, yes, yes. I remember that because it was my husband. My husband. My husband. Also, not for nothing, King Picture, Kingfisher is on my hoopla. So I was like, let me download it. Yeah, I love when that happens.

C (42:28)

Okay, call out. That's.

A (42:30)

That's awesome. Maybe I listen to it on there or Spotify one or the other.

C (42:35)

I got it right now.

B (42:36)

Some spot someplace. Yeah, well, we, I, I'm titillated, but I do want to dive a little bit more into talking to you, Renee, before we just sort of have our, you know, presentations of books and loving lately. But I think, if I had to guess, the listeners would be very interested to know what you've been up to and how your reading life has been over the past couple years. So how you been, friend?

A (43:04)

I have been good. Doing really good. My reading has been great. It's been up and down just because it was a big shift to go from reading like we did with the themed reading, which I know a lot of people had mentioned or would comment to us here and there that they thought that would be hard. But I think it gave structure to my reading and it expanded. I liked having themes, so I've been. Since I've been willy nilly, sometimes I'm just like, I don't know what I want to read. I. I've been putting kind of more themed reading onto myself because I really like that. But my reading has slowed down a little because it's a. It's a lot to read what you guys read. But overall, I'm still doing literary fiction. That still remains my top genre. And I still doing audiobooks. Love the audiobooks. April. I, I think I. Every book I read, I listened to and yeah, I mean, I'm always on the hunt for a quality thriller, but I don't know if you two find that what they're publishing these days. It's really hard to find a quality thriller. Maybe I just have. I don't know, maybe I have no standards.

B (44:29)

I don't think I would agree with that. I think, I think a lot of people feel that way. I unfortunately like to rot my brain. And so I'm like, oh, I was delighted. You know, I'm. And actually I'm glad you said that because one of the books I'm bringing later or the book I'm bringing later, I'm like, both Hannah and Renee, I think, would hate this book, but I loved it. So I'm excited to talk about that and why I think you both wouldn't like it it. But I. I've actually heard that, Renee, that people feel that way too.

A (44:58)

Yeah.

B (44:59)

Especially the popular ones. You know, I read through the Goodreads Choice Awards, mystery and thriller last year. I read all of them that they were not Craziness. I know what's wrong with me. I can't explain it. But, yeah, they were by and large not great. The ones I found on my own, if I may, I feel were much stronger. There were some that I think were missing. But anyway, anyway, I'm glad to hear that you're still reading. Of course.

A (45:23)

Still reading. Yes. I. What I was going to tell you that you don't know that I'm doing is I. I decided at the end of January to start a book coach certification program. So I am in it. It's a. It's a very rigorous program, but when I'm done, I'll be a certified book coach. So essentially I will be able to help authors, writers from. Whether they have an idea for a story all the way to. Well through full. If somebody has a full manuscript all the way through the end, which is pitch strategy of find an agent, you know, do the query, all the things. So it's a. It's a long program. I mean, it's. I have a year to complete it, but I'm not gonna. I. I'm not gonna take that long to do it, but I could take that long. But it's. Yeah, it's. It's a lot, but I've been liking it.

C (46:33)

That's really exciting. I already, I'm just, I already have a lot of questions. So that's. That's exciting. So. So your job with this certification will really come. You'll be working with authors and what you'll do. Will come before they get an agent and before they start querying things.

A (46:51)

Yes. But I will also be able to. Let's say somebody has an agent and the agent has said, this needs work. And if somebody could. Could very well bring me their manuscript and say, my agent said this needs work. What is wrong? What do I. You know, what do I need to do? I have a. I'm also planning on working with a writer in July who already has an agent and I'll be doing a manuscript evaluation for her. So I. Yeah, I mean, I could work with published authors if I could do whatever. Yeah. I'll be running my own sort of business along with substack that.

B (47:43)

I think this is perfect for you. I feel like you'll be so good at that because you really do have a critical eye compliment. Like, that's a good thing. I feel like you. And how fun must it be to. Because what I imagine you're learning is the behind the scenes of what it takes to.

A (48:02)

Yes.

B (48:02)

What. What you should be looking for or what publishers and what people, you know, marketing teams and all of that will be looking for. I think this is a perfect fit. How exciting.

A (48:12)

Thanks. Yeah, I really like it. And you're absolutely right. That is what I've. I'm finding since I started, which I've been in it, like, deep for over. Well, yeah, over three months. I'm re. I'm still reading the same, but I'm reading differently. So how I explain it to people who ask about if it's changed my reading the way it's changed my reading is now if I dnf. Because I still DNF like crazy. But before, I'd be like, well, I DNF'd it because I got bored.

C (48:47)

Yeah.

A (48:48)

But I don't know why I got bored or I don't know what went wrong with the structure. Now I know. Now I have. Now I know usually why. Like, for example, if I DNF something because there's a ton of backstory dumping, then that is there. I'm aware that the backstory dumping has caused me to be pulled out of the story. Do you know, I'm. I'm learning like, the ins and outs of storytelling, which is really fascinating. And. Yeah, I just have more, I guess, ability to talk about the structure of story more than I did before, if that makes sense.

B (49:31)

Oh, absolutely. I love that. I often think, God, I don't know what I'm talking about. I really don't. And a part of me is okay with that. Like I'm fine with that because I think it's more aligned with I. What general readers read. You know, how they read. But I also a piece of me is like. It would be really fun to know the ins and outs of storytelling. Like you said, what a fun thing to do.

A (49:56)

Yeah. Thanks.

C (49:57)

Will you be working alongside like developmental editors or is that kind of going to be somewhat your role? I'm. I'm curious like what the difference is or. Or even if you know what the difference is there between someone going through like a developmental editing process with their editor or publisher and what you'll be doing.

A (50:16)

Yeah, I could do developmental editing. So I'm getting ready. I have to do three practicums. I just finished last week. Practicum one, it was a beast. But practicum two will be a manus. A full manuscript evaluation for that I will be doing a developmental edit of the first 20 pages. So I won't be develop. I won't be developmentally editing the entire thing. But also I didn't even know what the difference was between developmental edit and copy edit. So copy edit is more the. The punctuation and grammar and sentence. Like that is not something I'm interested in and I'm not very good at it. But the developmental edit of the big. The big picture, the plot, the pace, are the characters fleshed out? You know all that? Yes, I would.

C (51:13)

Info dumping in the beginning.

A (51:15)

Exactly. Exactly. And I guess the goal of the way they have the program structured, which is a lot of work, but by the end I will decide what I want to do. So I don't know if I'll do like full manuscript developmental edits because that's. Maybe I will. But also there I will have the ability to do that along with just taking the. The writer I just worked with had an idea for a story and. And maybe like she had some few chapters. So that was it. So I can do that. And then I'm very excited to get to part three though, which is pitch strategy. I think that's going to be fun.

C (52:01)

Fun.

A (52:02)

Yeah. So I'm just exciting.

C (52:03)

I'm glad that you shared that with us and we got to chat about it because it's just really interesting and fun and I agree. It sounds like you're going to be really awesome at it. You'll have to at least let us know when you get to that third part. And I will your program so we can celebrate with you.

A (52:19)

Thanks. I will.

B (52:21)

I had never heard of that. I'm like quickly over here. I know what is A book cloud.

A (52:24)

That's exactly. I didn't either. A year ago. I didn't know. Didn't know anything about it. And then I interviewed Lydia Hillay for Slanting towards the Sea, which was my top book of the year. I had her on my sub stack for an interview when her book was published. And she had left her law career in Croatia, and she was a book coach, and I was like, I've never heard of this job. What it.

B (52:52)

So, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.

A (52:54)

I'm going through the same program she did, and she's still a book coach and a published author. And that's how I found out about it. I've never had. Never heard about it. I think it's. I think it's gaining traction in the industry just because I'm sure you guys have also heard that editors and publicists and agents and everybody are just overworked. There's just so many books being published, so. And they. I don't know if this will shift, but they tend to expect authors to come to the table with manuscripts that are pretty ready to go. And it never used to be like that 10 or 15 years ago.

B (53:44)

I'm sure there's so much coming to them that, like, this is a way to really help them weed through the pile, so to speak, and figure out, like, okay, what is serious. What is, you know, because they don't have as many resources, probably, to help help people refine things.

A (53:58)

Right. Yeah.

B (54:00)

So that is so exciting.

A (54:02)

Thank you.

B (54:03)

Hannah, you have a question about Substack. I think this would be a good.

C (54:07)

Yeah, I was just gonna ask you. You know, I. You've been posting quite a bit on Substack and kind of moved to that platform over other social media channels. And I'm always curious how the different. Well, I guess Substack isn't necessarily social media, but it is social to an extent because people can comment and have conversations on different posts.

B (54:28)

Posts.

C (54:28)

I'm just curious how that community differs from other online communities. Like what the vibe is, why you like it, is there anything you don't like about it, etc.

A (54:41)

Okay. Yes, I am mostly only on Substack. I still have an Instagram, but I'm. I'm rarely on there. And so the way Substack works, I have. I have the newsletter and that goes out regularly. But then social or substack does have its own social media, which is called Notes. So if you have the Substack app, you can be on Notes. And that's what the kind of. The main thing that comes up. And the best way I can describe notes is it is a combination right now, at least it's a combination of the old school Instagram combined with old school Twitter. So that is what's so appealing to people, I think, and what I'm seeing when people are posting on notes, people are posting about, you know, there's tons of writers there that they may get on and say, I just spent, you know, I just spent two hours talking to the best stranger on the airplane, blah, blah, blah. Like that's old days of Twitter. That's how it used to be, where people were just sharing their thoughts on Twitter. Then you can also share photos and videos. So that's where the old style of Instagram comes in and there's no ads. And so there right now it is, it's a place where what you'll see are people sharing other people's work. So it's called restacking. Again, very much like Twitter retweet. And it's a very supportive, positive vibe. There are not at least where, at least where I spend my time, but I don't spend my time in the political realm of notes. I don't follow anything like that. So their algorithm there, it's very different than Instagram's algorithm. So it really, really does show me things about books and writers and all of that. And the vibe there is happy and positive. And that's. So if any, it just doesn't tend to veer off that right now. Which I is why I think a lot of people are drawn to substack and you can curate. You. You know, I follow tons of writers. I'd follow book people, everybody. You can do long form content, you can do audio, you can do video, you can do lives. I don't, I don't do that.

C (57:23)

But you don't have to do any of it. It kind of sounds like you can make it what you want.

A (57:28)

Right?

C (57:28)

A little bit.

A (57:29)

Right. The thing that I like about Sub stack too, and I mean, it's in their favor to promote my work because if I make money, they make money because substack takes a cut, just like Patreon takes a cut. Right. So that's different than Instagram, I think. And I don't know, it's. It's good vibes. That's how I would describe substack. And then. But with the newsletter and things like that, yes, that's not social media and that goes out to.

C (58:05)

Right.

A (58:05)

Anybody who subscribes. But I have a lot of, well, not a lot But I have followers on.

B (58:12)

You're kind of a big deal over there.

A (58:14)

No, not really. No. But I'm saying I have. I have probably more followers than I do email newsletter subscribers. Because people can follow you on notes, but they don't necessarily subscribe to your newsletter.

B (58:30)

Right, right.

A (58:31)

So I don't do as much on notes either that I do in my newsletter, but every now and then I post a picture of Vinnie because who. Everybody likes to see the. The dog.

C (58:41)

People love to see the dogs. You know, that's. That's consistent even with. We were just talking about this in a work meeting earlier because we were talking about posting some things internally for our organization and we were talking about sharing, like, team pictures. And the person I was talking to was like, well, make sure that you share the picture with the dog, because everyone loves to see the dog, loves

B (59:01)

to see the animals. I know earlier you were saying, there's a photo behind Renee. Right. Cat. And I was thinking of Vinnie and I was like, can you. In my head, I'm like, can you bring him on camera? Now, Vinnie is £100, so I don't think that that would be possible for you to bring him on camera. But I was like, oh, that big, sweet, sweet baby.

A (59:19)

I would love to. He's downstairs also behaving very nicely. I'm sure he's a good boy downstairs.

B (59:26)

Oh, my God, we love Vinnie. Let's see.

A (59:30)

But how do you feel about the state of social media these days?

C (59:35)

Oh, begin.

B (59:36)

Where to begin?

C (59:37)

I feel like you. You probably have thoughts right away.

B (59:40)

Well, I was gonna say I remain uninvolved on Substack. I have a support from afar. I believe I follow, but I'm not sure. And I don't go over there because I simply cannot do another platform. But I'm really glad that it exists because like you said, I think people are looking for ways to authentically connect that aren't ad driven, aren't algorithm based, and aren't like, you know, sor. Super inflammatory and people talking about bookish drama. I am. I. I like social media. I remain a content creator, less of a consumer just because I just don't have the brain capacity to do both. I have been enjoying my time on YouTube. I said to you, I was talking to Amy Allen Clark the other day. She is a fellow podcaster. And we were just having a conversation and I was talking about YouTube. And I'm like, I think that's my favorite place to post in terms of, like, social media. I love making the videos because I Feel it's very similar to the podcast where I'm talking about books. I'm, you know, whatever, if I'm doing a vlog or if I'm doing a list, this and that. And it feels like the people over there, they know me. Conversely, I started posting reels to Facebook, and that has been an experience. People are real mean over on Facebook, and I think it's very much detached. It's more so they have no idea who I am. Which, of course, why would you. But it's more people ready to jump in and sort of attack and critique. Like, immediately I was like, oh, okay. Like, I spelled a word wrong. I said this on a previous episode. I spelled serial killer purposefully wrong, yada yada. It was an old video. It was an old video. Exactly. And people still to this day are yelling at me for spelling serial killer wrong. I'm like, okay, it's fun. It's a weird thing.

C (61:30)

Purpose.

B (61:31)

But. But, yeah, to your, you know, to your point, Facebook, though, does give you a couple coins for posting here and there. So that's why I've been dabbling in these areas. Hannah, though, what are you. Hannah had a recent, pretty exciting milestone on Instagram recently. Oh, yeah.

C (61:48)

I just hit a hundred thousand on Instagram, which is so exciting.

B (61:53)

Yeah.

A (61:54)

Yeah.

B (61:54)

Congratulations.

C (61:54)

You. It's been. Thank you. It's. I've been trying to reach that milestone for a while, and I finally got serious about it with the help of what is currently working on Instagram, which is carousels. Like, photo carousels. I have never been a video content creator. I frankly, really, really dislike it. And it's mostly the editing. I really struggle, and I just struggle with face to camera. I don't like, like looking at myself even when I'm editing a video. I just really have a hard time with it. And so video or photo content, especially carousels, where I can, like, write my thoughts down too, in a picture, allows me to be creative and then also write. And it's getting rewarded on the platform right now, which is really great. Um, I have been considering not moving over to Substack, but doing something additional over there. My hesitation is just that I. I just don't know if I have the capacity to do that. But if I were to kind of expand my own personal social space as it pertains to books and media, I might do that because I also feel like Substack might be a little bit friendlier with combining media reviews. Like, if I also wanted to talk about movies and if I also wanted to talk about TV or podcasts, I feel like that might be a good space because it can be more entertainment focused rather than solely books. So, yeah, I'm pretty much not posting on TikTok at all anymore because it's only video and it's just not my thing. That might change one day, but for right now, the thought of recording and editing a video makes me want to throw up. So. Hey, don't do that.

B (63:43)

Oh, my gosh. But I love it.

C (63:44)

But it's so funny because each of us are so different. Like, we've got so stack writing. Yeah, I know.

B (63:49)

And you both are so good at the putting the thoughts to the page and being thoughtful with it. Whereas I, I think like video because I'm like, okay, just say it all and then edit it and post. And I have fun with the little edits in the back end and all of that. It does take a lot of time, but I'm glad you asked.

C (64:05)

But if you don't, if you like the time. Because, like, those carousels take me a lot of time too. But it's time I don't mind doing and I thank you for editing. It's time that you don't mind and you maybe even enjoy because that's a part of your creative process and it's just proof that we're all built so different in what we consider to be laborious but worth it because we really enjoy it.

B (64:26)

Yeah. I've never posted a carousel in my life, and I truly wouldn't know where to start. Not even from like a how to standpoint. But I'm like, what. What would I post? No idea. Yeah, imagine it would be much of the same as what I do in other areas. So we will do a few more book shares out before we end the episode. Renee, though, I do want to know, and I didn't ask you this in advance, so forgive me. Oh, what can you share maybe one or two books that have been your favorites that we haven't heard you talk about on the podcast since you've been gone?

A (64:59)

Oh, gosh. 1 or 2 or 50 or 50 or 75.

B (65:05)

Well, obviously plug, plug. You can get all of them over on substack on Renee's newsletter, which of course we will share in the podcast and. But off the cuff, what do you got?

A (65:15)

Off the cuff? I. Ooh. Okay, let me first share a nonfiction, because I. I don't think this is. Get this. I am positive it's not getting traction in the book space. And it was five stars. I read it last. No, did I Read it this month. I listened to it. So it's called smile or you're doing it wrong by Andy Glaze. And he is an ultra runner. This came. This was a recommendation from my older son, Tina. I don't even.

B (65:49)

I already knew who recommended you.

A (65:52)

He recommended. He is. He has been recommending me nonfictions here and there over the last couple years. He got back into reading and I got him into audiobooks last fall. Long story short, he has taken up running big time. And he is doing ultra runs, which is a lot, but he's very inspired by stories like this. Now, I was not going to read this because I'm like, I'm not into ultra running. But he. He was adamant. He thought I would like it. I loved it. I. I don't even have the synopsis in front of me, but it. Andy Glaze is an ultra runner. He is also a firefighter. He's a battalion chief.

B (66:37)

Wow.

A (66:38)

Of a fire department. He is a father, he is a husband, and now he's an author. This book is so good. It start. So it's his life from being sent to a wilderness reform program for drug addiction to becoming a firefighter, becoming an ultra runner, having this life where he greatly inspires people. Um, he's big on Instagram and I'm now following him on Instagram. And so I just ordered print copy of his book for my son and I so we can highlight and. But the audio is fantastic. He narrates it a great nonfiction. I think really, truly anybody who needs a bit of inspiration in their life for whatever reason could find something in this book. Book that they resonate with. So that was Smile or you're doing it wrong by Andy Glaze. And let me get you another one.

B (67:45)

That sounds so good.

A (67:47)

It's so. It's really.

B (67:48)

So glad you brought. Yes. It's today from us. Heck, yeah.

A (67:51)

Yeah. It's a trust. Yeah, It's a trust Me. And I know it's. It's like I said, it's huge in the running world. I think he's. He's selling a lot of copies that way, but not in our smaller reading space. So different niche, right? Exactly. Okay. What else do I want to tell you about? You know what? I'll tell you since in the last couple years I've went down a little bit of an additional Isabel Allende reading Reading Groove. And one of the books I read in January of hers that I really, really loved was A long petal of the Sea. So historical fiction, which is not usually what I gravitate towards. But there's something about her writing that is just stellar. So that one is set at the beginning of the Spanish Civil War, I think I know. And which I knew nothing about at all. And it. It follows the. This family that literally has to leave them, their home, everything they know, and they have to. To try to survive through the. The mountain, the French mountains, and get to a safe space. If you like sagas, if you like love stories, family dramas, that. That story has absolutely everything. It's riveting. I cannot recommend it enough. So. So that one's a long petal of the sea by Isabel Allende.

B (69:31)

Yay.

C (69:32)

I've always wanted to read more from Isabel Allende. I've heard great things about her.

A (69:38)

Yeah, it.

B (69:39)

I.

A (69:39)

It's good. It's good.

B (69:42)

I'm impressed that you were able to do that off the top of your head. Thank you for indulging. I know.

C (69:46)

Great job.

B (69:47)

Love that. Love it. Okay, I'm ready to talk about our mood reads. And I, in April was just the biggest. I could not stop reading thrillers and new releases. I was like, I am on a terror and I'm just gonna keep going. So the book that I'm bringing today is the Caretaker by Marcus Cleaver. And I looked it up online. It is Cleaver, like the. You know, the Cleaver. That's how you say his last name. Very interesting.

C (70:16)

Like chop.

A (70:16)

Chop.

C (70:17)

Chop.

B (70:17)

Like chop. Yeah. Cleaver. What a great last name for a horror writer. This is the book that. One, I think both of you would really. I'd be so curious to see what you think. But two, he, of course, is the author of We Used to Live Here. There's a famous. Not famous, but my classic story of I was so scared by that book, I called the cops. Long story short, I said that on the podcast last time, but. Or whenever I had read that. So I went into this. Ready, listeners, Little Easter egg. I went into this book ready to be creeped out. I was on a road trip. I was going somewhere far away for it wasn't that far, but I knew I had plenty of listening time. I also knew I was by myself and I was like, the setting is right. This is a great time to pick this up because this book is about Macy Mullins. Macy is a mess. She is taking care of her sister who is still in high school, and they are down on their luck. They. She kind of can't get a job that is allowing them to pay for things and, you know, they need money. Essentially. She Feels like she's one one paycheck away from them being evicted. And she sees this opportunity. It's a job posting, and it says, caretaker urgently needed. Three days of work, competitive pay, serious applicants only. And she's like, all right, let me try this out. So in the very beginning of the book, she's like, taking the sketchy bus to this remote house sort of in the wilderness, and she's going to meet with the owner of the house, and she feels like, okay, the vibe is not great, but I'm also not in a place to get picky. So let me just see. It's only three days. What could go wrong? Much as it turns out, you get three days. She has to stay in the stranger's house for three days, surrounded by the wilderness of the Oregon coast. Another book in Oregon. Weird. And okay, I'll leave it there. The reason why this. Here we go. This book is her Vibes reader. If you are not a Vibes reader, you probably won't like this. If you're a reader that is very good at puzzling things out and you want answers for most things, then you probably will be disappointed. I am more. I want to be entertained. I want to be, you know, delighted. I. I'm okay if there's some loose ends or some question marks that are just there that don't really get addressed as long as they add to the vibe. I should say, though, specifically in horror, this I would call a horror novel. I'm okay if there's supernatural or weird going on that are a little bit unexplained if I know to expect it. Now, if there was that thing in a typical domestic suspense, I'd be pissed. But in a horror novel, I'm good with that. You know what I mean? Like, things that go bump in the night. I'm okay not knowing everything, and you really get that. I did the audio for most of this, although I do have a print copy, and I was kind of going back and forth. The audio was fabulous. It did get very loud at times. The production was really, really good. Good. But, like, some of it, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, they genuinely were scaring me when I was listening to this. The other critique that I heard that I do think is fair is that Macy is intensely frustrating. Macy is somebody that you will just. You'll want to step in for her. I though, found her to be. You know, if you watch old school, I say old school. I'm thinking like 90s campy horror movies. I'm thinking like, Scream or whatever. When you have like the kind of ditzy girl and she's like, I'm gonna go in the basement anyway. And they're like, no, don't go in the basement by yourself. She's like, I'm gonna do it. That's Macy to me. She's just doing what it's canon for. Yes. Like, yes.

C (73:52)

For like a slasher movie for me.

B (73:54)

She felt like sort of a typical more modern final girl. Right. Like, girl, what are you doing? I had such fun reading this. I don't want to say too much though, because it very much is a book that it's best going in relatively blind. The ending I thought was perfect and made perfect sense with the character. If y' all have read this that are listening or if either of you end up reading this, let me know what you think. I had a great time with it. I genuinely was like cackling by the end. I was like hugging the book. So I was like, you little stinker. That was a really good reading experience. This book is the Caretaker by Marcus Cleaver.

C (74:30)

Ooh, I'm glad you.

A (74:30)

That was a fun reveal. Yay.

B (74:33)

It was so. It was so silly. Oh my gosh. You guys would be mad at Macy, I can tell you that.

C (74:40)

It reminds me of how I feel about a lot of Riley Sager books.

B (74:44)

Yeah.

C (74:45)

With his gals.

B (74:47)

Yes. Oh, God. Yeah. If you need a likable, competent female main character, don't read this. You'll be let down.

C (74:54)

We know what to expect going into it.

B (74:56)

Exactly. I set the expectations. Well.

C (74:59)

You sure did. That's perfect. Okay. My mood. Ready? I. Gosh, I don't have a ton to say about it, but I do think it's a really interesting book. This is a somewhat new release and it's one that. Tina, you brought either as I think you brought it as a shelf edition a few episodes back. And it's called the Extra by Annie Neugbauer. And the synopsis for this one, if you even look it up on Goodreads or Amazon, is one sentence long, which I think is perfectly adequate. This is only a 132 page horror, like kind of sci fi horror novella. But the synopsis for it is just 10 people head out on a backpacking trip. But the first night 11 set up camp. Everybody remembers everybody else. So who's the extra? And that's. That's the setup that you get for the story. And. And when camp is set up that first night, the leader has a head count of 11 and recognizes everyone Present. So they go to the other camp members and they're like, do you remember everybody? Because they're like, well, maybe I am just forgetting something. And everybody else remembers everybody else. So they're trying to figure out, okay, who's. Who is this extra person? I know. Because everybody else also remembers that they only had 10 people when they left camp. So everybody else is like, wait, now we have 11? But I remember everybody. So it's not just a mystery for our protagonist, for the main character. It's a mystery for every single person. And this one reminded me a lot of Annihilation. If anyone has retired that book by Jeff Vandermeer in the sense that this is kind of where the sci fi elements come in. There are just some weird things that happen or like areas in the woods and in the. Their surrounding atmosphere at the camp that seem almost sci fi. Like patches of grass that are neon green and they're like, wait a second, what is happening here, here? So when I went into this one, I did not know that it was a part of a series and, oh, I didn't either. It's not a companion series as in, each book stands on its own. So what I didn't know going into this book and what I think a lot of people didn't know that I've heard talking about this one and why I think it has such low, like, not great ratings right now, you don't get answers in this book book. So when you get to the end, you still have questions, like the main question, who's the extra? You will have to keep reading. And I don't think that's a spoiler because we know that it's a series. And for a lot of series, like fantasy romance, well, not romance, but fantasy, you know, sci fi, those traditional series, a lot of times end on cliffhangers. And while this one doesn't end on a cliffhanger, it does end very open. And I think that if you go into it knowing, okay, this is an interesting premise, but I'm not going to come out it. Come out of it feeling satisfied. I'm going to want to keep reading. I think if you go into it with those expectations, this might be a really fun series. I feel like if I were to go back and, and start this over, I would say I'm going to wait until the series is out because they're novellas and I can just bam, bam, bam. But I didn't do that. So now I'm just going to have to read the other book when it comes Out. I can't remember what it's called. I think it's called the Outsider. But it was really interesting, really atmospheric, very creepy. Like, my adrenaline was up. My heart was racing while reading this. Very easy one sitting read, only 132 pages. I recommend it. I just know that you're not going to get answers at the end and you'll probably want to continue the series. And if this is something that interests you. So that is the Extra by Annie Nougbauer.

B (79:21)

I'm so glad you mentioned that. Yes. The other comes out on June 9, so we don't have to wait terribly long. That's exciting.

C (79:28)

That is.

B (79:29)

But I'm gonna wait.

C (79:30)

I'll definitely be snagging.

B (79:31)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C (79:32)

Yes.

B (79:32)

Oh, good to know. All right. I'm so glad to hear that. And I don't know where I heard of that. I. And that's kind of creepy. I don't know where I heard of this book. Just to show I know. No, but I didn't see it on the shelf. I had a hold on it and I don't know why I had a hold on it.

C (79:47)

Interesting.

B (79:48)

Anyway, Renee, what have you got?

A (79:50)

Okay. All right. I'm going in a different direction from you ladies. I want to bring a July release because I think with this being the start of May, and I read this in at the end of January when we went to Cancun. So I like to read something that that's indicates we're near the. The sea. So this one is Everything to the Sea by Alicia apano. Comes out July 14th. And this is a debut that spans years and shores after a sudden tsunami devastates the island of Hawaii, and a young couple's budding romance, as well as the lives of family and friends, will be cut tragically short. So in the beginning of this debut, which I thought the author did such a brilliant job of setting this up, we get some. We get an opening page, maybe a page and a half. And at the very end of the. The opening scene, she gives you a great end sentence that sets this up perfectly. And it says, this is how the story goes. Jane will fall in love and then all of this will vanish. So she sets it up by introducing you to Jane, and then she ends with that sentence. And I was like, oh, I need to know what happens. So, yes, this is a love story, but it's more than just a love story. This is not a straight up romance. We have Jane. She's home from college. This is her final summer, and her. She's From a very, very small community. But she goes to college in Honolulu. It is. She's coming into her last year. So she goes home and which her. Her parents are there, like small town, small island town. She works at the local restaurant, everybody knows everybody. And she ends up reconnecting with Kenji, who is a guy she knew in high school. But they never really got together. And this summer they're going to reconnect and. But Jane has her sights set on her career. She wants to be an architect. She plans on being an architect in a big city. So this small town, incoming home is not what she wants to do. Although her parents very much have dreams for her to come back there. They want her to. So there's a lot of conflict with that. So she spends a lot of this summer with Kenji. And at one point the tsunami will hit. And I'm gonna leave it there because again, this is another prime example of the synopsis, the marketing copy, whatever give gives a huge plot point away. Huge. Please, if this sounds good, do not read the entire synopsis. Just know that that tsunami comes without warning. It is explained very well, and once that hits, no one is going to be the same. I thought this was extremely readable. I didn't want to put it down. There's. The characters were very interesting. Not surprisingly for a reader like me, who doesn't tend to read a lot of characters this age. I've been very much into protagonists and main characters in midlife and older. So along the way, Jane did frustrate me at times, but it was fine. I thought this was so emotional, so well plotted. I love where she. I love the. The storyline. I love where she took the story with the characters. If I had a critique, it would be this. This. This does bring in a couple romance tropes. One being miscommunication and another being just straight up not communicating. And I have. I don't like that when the plot hinges on the fact that if that one or both characters are withholding some very easily discussed information that had they had they just said it, then things would have been fine. Right? And that's just a. That's a me issue. I think that's just not something I typically like in my reading. But I read this at the end of January. I still keep thinking, gosh, I wish I could find another story that has romance but was so. Like, had so much emotional depth and like really interesting plot twists like this. And I have yet to find another one. I think this is very worthy of putting in your beach or pool bag. This summer, especially if you are looking for an emotional beach, read like you want something with depth. You just don't want want like the typical romance or the typical drama. Then I put this on your radar. This one is Everything to the Sea by Alicia Apano.

C (85:15)

Ooh, I'm excited about that one. I also love romance, but I also really need it to be emotionally resonant and complex. And it sounds like this one. Definitely.

A (85:27)

Yeah. And it was. It was sad at times. I mean, it's definitely sad. Sad, but yeah, really, really good. I hope a lot of people.

C (85:35)

I can do sad.

A (85:36)

Okay.

C (85:37)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (85:39)

I never heard of it, but it does sound fantastic. It sounds definitely like a summer book that.

A (85:46)

Oh, yeah, would work. And the COVID I mean, yeah, if you check the COVID Cover is so pretty.

C (85:52)

Yeah.

A (85:53)

I don't know if either of you are weird like me, but, I mean. And that's the book I chose to read while I was literally sitting at the ocean. I'm like, what are you doing? But I was like, oh. Oh, my God, this is a Tsunami hits. Like, this is the one I'm gonna read.

B (86:09)

Okay, well, that's like me traveling solo by myself in a hotel room alone. I'm like, let me read the haunted house book. Creepy. It's not haunted, but let me read the creepy house book. Right? Yes. I think we are similar.

C (86:20)

Take it a step further and read the Shining, which is a creepy hotel book.

B (86:23)

Ooh, I know I should. I still have not read the freaking Shining. Can you you believe it? I need to. I need to get there at some point. But first we'll wrap the show up. We've been here for a while and it's been so fun, but we'll wrap with our shelf editions. And I wanted to bring a shelf edition that I know Renee has read and loved.

C (86:42)

You're holding it.

B (86:43)

It is Pyrenees by Susanna Clark. And the reason I'm bringing this is because I have the best story about where I got it from. So I went to work earlier in the week, and on my desk there was book. And immediately I clocked it within seconds. And I asked my coworker. I was like, hey, is this. I said, is that my book? And she goes, yeah. I said, did you bring it for me? She goes, no, a student did. So I opened the book up, and I'm not going to say obviously who it is, but it's a handwritten note. And they basically, I asked them to be a part of an event, and they couldn't. And they said, oh, I saw this book. Was on your Goodreads tbr and I've already finished it, so I thought I'd rehome it to you. Feel free to pass it along if you've already read it. Da da da da da. And then they shared what they're currently reading and I was like, talk about like a love language. Give me a book that you've read and loved with a handwritten note. Are you joking? Like, I'm so touched that they brought this to me and it obviously is on my Goodreads and it probably has been there since. Renee, I believe you brought it to the show whenever that was. So I'm so excited. I don't typically do fantasy, but I remember you said the audio specifically of this was just like exemplary. So I'm so, so pumped for it. I'm definitely reading it soon. It is Piranesi by Susanna Clark.

A (88:02)

Oh, I love that. That's so nice.

C (88:05)

That's such a good gift. I always think of my mom when I hear people recommend that book because that is her. That book is like her Roman Empire. She's always like, have you read Piranesi yet? She's always asking people, she loves that book.

B (88:19)

Mom, I'll read it to you.

C (88:20)

She will be so excited to hear your thoughts. No pressure. Tina, right?

B (88:26)

Renee, do you have a shelf edition for us?

A (88:29)

Yes, I do. I'm highlighting some debuts today. So this is another debut. I know. And we're going back to thriller. It's Somebody Worth Killing by Jessica Payne, comes out June 16. I wasn't sure about this one, but I am going to give this one a try. In this story, we have Nadia Davis. This She's a doting mom and loving wife who has a big secret. She's actually an assassin and she really needs a babysitter who shows up on time. Basically what we're getting is Nadia has the secret career as an assassin, a hired assassin. And one day I think her job is in jeopardy and she really needs somebody worth killing. And it turns out that they are going to give her an assignment and it sounds like it's going to be her husband, which gave me Mr. And Mrs. Smith kind of vibes.

C (89:31)

Totally.

A (89:32)

And I wasn't. I was initially I was like, I don't know about this. But then it has a solid 5 stars ratings on NetGalley with 100.

B (89:43)

Wow. That never happens.

A (89:45)

That never happens. Happens. And I rarely ever read reviews these days, but I was like, how a solid five stars. Let me just scroll through and see generally what people are saying. And so Many people were saying, okay, I wasn't gonna read this, but I'm glad I did because this was stellar. So okay. I was like, all right, yeah, I'm gonna put this on the tbr. And the reason this came on my radar because she posted about it it on Substack Notes. That is the only reason. That's the only reason I found it. So that was Somebody Worth Killing by Jessica Payne comes out June 16th.

C (90:25)

Sounds good.

B (90:26)

Yeah.

C (90:29)

I'm glad you're putting some of these summer books on people's radar. I'm excited about summer publishing.

A (90:35)

I know. I am too.

C (90:37)

Okay. My shelf edition is one that I recently grabbed on Audio Libro FM has a big sale every year during Indie Bookstore Week and they will put audiobooks on sale for purchase. So instead of using a credit, you can buy an audiobook for 2, 3, 4 dollars. And I always stock up on Indie Bookstore Week. And this week I'm so this Indie Bookstore Week, I'm so glad that I did because I was unable to make it in person and so I'm glad that I was still able to support some Indie bookstores for Indie Bookstore Week in this way. But that was a long enough intro. The shelf edition that I'm bringing is Automatic Noodle by M. Grosland or Grossland. And this was put on my radar during the Goodreads Choice Awards for this past year. I don't remember. Maybe it was Sci Fi that it was on for which list it was showing up on, but I had never heard of it when I saw it on the Goodreads Choice Awards list and then when I looked it up, it immediately got put on my TBR and I saw that it was on sale so I grabbed it. This is a cozy near future novella about a crew of leftover robots opening their very own noodle shop. And that just sounds so cute and cozy and it sounds similar to something like A Psalm for the Wild built by Becky Chambers, which is, you know, these robots trying to find a a cozy life. And of course in this one, their robot run business starts causing a stir and a targeted wave of one star reviews threatens to boil over into a crisis. And to keep their doors open, they have to call on their customers and their community and each other to survive and thrive in a world that wasn't built for them. So that sounds just unique and potentially cute and cozy and funny. And that is Automatic Noodle by Ann M. Grossland.

B (92:45)

Yes, you are right, it is. It was on the Sci Fi one and I love the COVID of it. It's so pretty.

C (92:51)

It's so pretty and just fun.

B (92:53)

Good colors. Yes. Always a. Always a big selling point is what

C (92:57)

it looks like on the COVID Oh, I said the. I'm so sorry. I said the author wrong. That is the narrator. E.M. grossland is the narrator. The author is Annalee Newett. So apologies there. I will have that corrected in the show notes, but it's Automatic Noodle by Annalee Newitz.

B (93:18)

All right, well, on that note, I'm hungry. It's lunchtime in my timeline, so I feel like it's a good place to wrap up. I'm very sad, though, because this means we'll be saying goodbye for now to our dear friend Renee. But it was so thanks for having you.

A (93:36)

This was fun.

B (93:37)

Fun. Slid in like it hasn't been two years. You know what I'm saying? It feels like you never left. So thank you for spending time with us. Geez, we've been here a minute. Any last parting thoughts or anything you want to say to the listeners who I know I'm sure are happy to hear from you?

A (93:54)

No, I thank you for having me back. This was so fun. I know. I. I'm happy to come anytime. And yeah, thanks for, for asking about my reading because I do miss getting to chat on a regular basis about what I'm reading, and that's. It's fun to. To jump back on. And yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me.

B (94:18)

Any time. Well, that's it for today. We thank you for spending a part of your day with us. Links to all the books mentioned can be found in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can help us by following wherever you listen and by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us get our show out to new listeners and grows our audience. And don't forget, if you'd like access to exclusive bonus content and community, you can join us for $5 a month on patreon.com booktalk Etc.

C (94:45)

If you'd like to connect with us, you can email us@booktalk etcmail.com you can also connect with us both at Booktok. Etc. On Instagram and YouTube. You can find Tina TBR Etc. And Hannah at Handpicked Books. Talk to you next week.

B (94:59)

And in the meantime, remember, everything's better with books. Well,

C (95:08)

that's it for today.

B (95:09)

Thank you. Of course. You know, I never. I never have my outro ready, so I'm always like, oh God. Okay. Okay. I just realized I never even told people what this book's about. I just read my friend's note. But that doesn't matter. People know Piranesi, okay?