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- [00:01]
Tina
I just, it's like always a miracle when this whole thing pulls together.
- [00:07]
Hannah
Our podcast.
- [00:08]
Tina
Uh huh. I'm like, am I prepared? I don't know. Unclear. But it always, by the time I walk away, I'm like, yeah, that was really good.
- [00:15]
Hannah
So hopefully that was really good.
- [00:17]
Tina
We dig deep and find the magic somewhere.
- [00:19]
Hannah
I know Dustin always laughs at me when I'm like, I don't feel like super prepared and I don't know if we're gonna be able to talk about whatever. And then he always laughs cause I come out of the recording studio and I'm like, that was great. I had so much fun.
- [00:30]
Tina
I know, I know.
- [00:31]
Hannah
You're such a silly goose.
- [00:44]
Tina
Welcome to Book Talk Etc, a podcast bound to grow your tbr. I'm Tina from TBR Etc.
- [00:50]
Hannah
And I'm Hannah from Hand Picked Books.
- [00:52]
Tina
This is a conversational podcast about books and more from two Midwest Mood readers. We're easily distracted by new releases and today Book Talk is talking Book Talk.
- [01:01]
Hannah
If you enjoy listening, we'd love to follow us on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. And if you have a quick minute, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or sharing us on social media. It truly helps us connect with other book lovers.
- [01:17]
Tina
Hi, Hannah. Hi, Tina.
- [01:19]
Hannah
How are you?
- [01:20]
Tina
I'm fine. How are you doing?
- [01:22]
Hannah
Good. Really enjoying the warm weather and yeah, it's been a good week so far.
- [01:27]
Tina
Good. You have a new painting behind you or new artwork?
- [01:30]
Hannah
I have a. My mom drew a portrait of my kids so I'm going to keep it hidden behind us, but. But yeah, it's was actually the one that's right in front of me, usually on my desk, but she had submitted it for a local event, art event and then she returned it back and I haven't hung it up yet.
- [01:50]
Tina
That is really neat.
- [01:52]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [01:53]
Tina
What a talented person. Yeah. I mean, and here I am.
- [01:56]
Hannah
They literally look exactly like my kids.
- [01:58]
Tina
Yeah. That's awesome. Here I am like, I hate art books. I don't understand art. It' boring. No. Cool. Yeah, I know. It's like we talk to each other so much. I like notice everything. I'm like, oh, that's that. What's new back there? Yeah, nothing new with us. I sort of got my shelves a little bit in order because last week we were talking about our book collections. They're not nearly as in order as I would like them to be. I have taken myself two days in April after all my busy work stuff is finished and I'm like, okay. I have, I'M going to take a four day weekend, try and get myself together. But that's still about nice five weeks from now. So you know, we'll have to. Just something to look forward to. Hang on until then.
- [02:39]
Hannah
Yes, yes, I'm sure you'll accumulate more that you'll need to work on organizing.
- [02:43]
Tina
Oh my God.
- [02:44]
Hannah
By the time we get there, so.
- [02:46]
Tina
Oh, not just books, babe. But no, we've been, we've been doing good though. Yes, it's all happy things. But yeah, I'm like, wow, did I not realize that March is probably one of the busiest months? I think I forget. I black it out every year and then I'm re reminded when it rolls back around but have to schedule some.
- [03:02]
Hannah
Downtime afterward to recover.
- [03:04]
Tina
I know, truly. But anyway, I'm going to tell you about my loving lately and it is a devil in the family. The Fall of Ruby Frankie, a docu series on Hulu. Did you watch this?
- [03:16]
Hannah
Yeah, it's what I had for my.
- [03:17]
Tina
Loving lately also today.
- [03:19]
Hannah
Yeah, but I.
- [03:21]
Tina
Let's do it. Let's do it together. Stop it. Did you really?
- [03:25]
Hannah
Yes, I have it right here.
- [03:26]
Tina
Oh my God. Amazing. We haven't talked about this. Obviously that's never happened where we brought the same love.
- [03:31]
Hannah
No, never.
- [03:31]
Tina
I've never done that either with Renee. So this is fabulous. Fabulous. Let me, I'll, I'll set it up and then I have something to share too. But you know, I'm fascinated by family vloggers. Like I'm just so interested in it. And not just their. I don't care for their channels. I'm more interested specifically in the point of view of the children who are featured in them who are now grownups because we've never had this before. We've never had YouTube like this. And so now people have been on it for 10 years and now they're adults. And this is a three part series on Hulu that follows the rise and fall of the Frankie family and their YouTube channel, 8Passengers.
- [04:06]
Hannah
Yep.
- [04:07]
Tina
And Ruby Frankie is the center of this and she is a mom of six and she and her husband started this channel to share their lives. And honestly at the beginning, you know, they are Mormon faith and they truly believed, I think that they were doing good by sharing their religion and showing these like happy family times. And then the more popular they get, the more intense Ruby gets with this to the point where in, in August 2023 she is arrested for child abuse. I wasn't expecting that, but for years they were like sort of this wholesome Family. I didn't know who they were at the time, but they had about 3 million subscribers when they were the most popular. And they sort of had this downfall when they turned to a family counselor, Jody Hildebrand. That was a very complicated, complex, toxic thing that they did. And this, what makes this docu series unique is that it is the two eldest children, Sherry and Chad and the father, Kevin, who are sharing their story on camera. There's neighbors, there's friends and outtakes from Ruby's YouTube channel, which were chilling.
- [05:15]
Hannah
So rough. So chilling.
- [05:17]
Tina
Jonathan, listen to me. If something happens to me and you release the outtakes of my YouTube channel, I truly will die a second death because it was so cringy.
- [05:26]
Hannah
It's so cringy.
- [05:28]
Tina
And it wasn't really a lot of it in the beginning. It's just her like, hey, guys. No, hey guys. And like kind of doing takes but like watching it. I'm like the second hand embarrassment, secondhand embarrassment was so incredibly strong.
- [05:40]
Hannah
Dustin and I were both just like, oh, God.
- [05:42]
Tina
I know, I know. And that's like the kind of more light hearted pieces, the funny stuff. Yeah, those are like the first couple of episodes. But I am saying all this. I read this memoir. It's the house of my mother, Sherry, Frankie. I read it in January and I am so glad that I watched this documentary because I read the memoir and it's just her words. And I hate to say I liked it, but I was like this. I liked it a lot. I was. It was brave of her to like share this because she's basically talking about her mom and all of what happened to them. But I felt like it was. I didn't get what was happening. I didn't quite get all that had happened because I was like, well, why was she arrested? You know, and you do find out in the book. But I think seeing it on camera is okay. I understand.
- [06:28]
Hannah
More context.
- [06:29]
Tina
Yeah, gives you more context because it wasn't the fact that they had this YouTube channel and their children were featured. It was more so that when they hooked up with this counselor, the kids literally were neglected. That all. It made me question the ethics of the whole thing. But that's the part where I was like, oh, got you. That's the part that is truly twisted.
- [06:49]
Hannah
Well, I don't think it is ethical because. And you know this at the very beginning of like, you know this at the beginning that the, the counselor, Jody Hildebrandt also faces charges. Like she also is a part of the kind of the ethical conundrum. There, so. But yeah, I think that's really when things started to kind of go downhill and get. And get ugly. But I think that it was an interesting conversation, too, about what fame, obviously, and especially social media can do to someone, especially if they're already, like, in a vulnerable mental state. And because the oldest child, Chad, like, in the very first episode, he was like, she was a good mom. Yeah, she was a good mom. Like, she was there for her family. Like, she did things for us. And it kind of sounds like, like, what ended up happening is not how she always was.
- [07:41]
Tina
Right.
- [07:41]
Hannah
Maybe it was deep down.
- [07:43]
Tina
Well, I think she. She was always intense because she talked in the beginning about how she, like, found a man and basically had this enormous checklist of all the things that she wanted in someone. It was like 60 things. And this. Her husband, Kevin, somehow found the list and was, like, trying to, like, craft himself or, like, make sure that he, like, checked off the most boxes, which I thought was super creepy. Speaking of, we have to talk about Kevin. I don't like how Kevin's coming off scot free.
- [08:12]
Hannah
I don't either.
- [08:13]
Tina
I think it is bullshit, frankly. He blames it all on Ruby. And here's the thing, and I should backtrack a few steps, that they still do have really young children. So, yeah, it's tricky.
- [08:27]
Hannah
He witnessed a crime technically and didn't report it, so.
- [08:32]
Tina
And you're in the home with them. Your son is sleeping on a beanbag chair for eight months and say anything. No. You were intimidated. You were scared of her. That's bs.
- [08:43]
Hannah
That's bs.
- [08:44]
Tina
I think it's crazy not to say that I want these children to be without their father, and I don't know what their relationship is like now, but I just think, ooh, it's very frustrating because he was happy enough to go on the brand trips. He was happy enough to be on the channel, even though he wasn't. He was scared of her and he didn't want to tell her no and all of that. But, like, now, all of a sudden, of course, when shit hits the fan, he knew nothing. I don't. I think he deserves a lot more blame.
- [09:10]
Hannah
I agree. And in the beginning, he kind of said, like, I was a part of the exploitation, too. Like, I totally bought into it. But then I learned later, and I'm like, well, did you learn later, though? Because, like, I appreciate you being honest about what you did take part in and what you were willing to take part in, but it seems like once it got to, like, illegal stuff, all Of a sudden, you're, you know, you're blameless.
- [09:32]
Tina
He was kicked out of the house and, like, all of that. Which. Anyway, you know, watch the docuseries. It's very interesting.
- [09:39]
Hannah
Very interesting.
- [09:40]
Tina
Brings up a lot. But I'm glad you watched it too, because, like, that was one of my bigger takeaways was like, something feels off. The blame didn't feel shared. And I don't think he's blameless. And I do feel like they tried to paint it as though he was just a part of it, along for the ride. He didn't do anything wrong.
- [09:57]
Hannah
And I'm like, he was also a victim.
- [09:59]
Tina
Right.
- [10:00]
Hannah
Which, I mean, I guess fair. But also, you got off. You got off, like, kind of free. And so even if you were a victim, like, I think that you. Yeah. Anyway, I was. I wasn't happy with that either.
- [10:14]
Tina
If my husband told me I had to leave my house and he was moving somebody in, and I'm not going down without a fight. I'm not just like, okay, like, leave my children. Sure.
- [10:24]
Hannah
You share children.
- [10:26]
Tina
Six of them that are. Some are still really little. I will commend both the book as well as the series for keeping the youngest four's identity still hidden. Yeah, their faces are blurred. Their names aren't in it. But you can still look their channel up. They have a secondary channel on YouTube, and that's still up. The banner is all six of their faces or eight of their faces. But anyway, it was very entertaining. Is the wrong word. Edifying. I know.
- [10:47]
Hannah
I was like, how am I gonna say this? I don't say that I liked it.
- [10:50]
Tina
Yeah.
- [10:51]
Hannah
But it was really interesting.
- [10:53]
Tina
Yeah. And I thought it was. I will say, I don't know. Yeah, I think it was well done. And I'm glad. You know, what I hope, I guess for is the family feels a sense of closure and that they feel like, okay, they've done their piece. Certainly you find out what happens to Ruby and, like, the charges and things that she faced. Crazy stuff, but.
- [11:12]
Hannah
Crazy stuff. I originally. The reason why I actually was originally interested in watching this is because, uh, I work in healthcare now. But before I worked in healthcare, I worked for an influencer agency. And we had kind of a list of influencers, specifically in the parenting space. Cause I worked very heavily in the parenting space that we were not open to working with. And kind of toward the end of my career there, this was a big conversation of, like, no matter what client asks for this family, we will not work with eight passengers. And this was right around like, 20, 22, 20, 23. So it was kind of, like, right around this time. It was, like, right before she had gotten arrested, I want to say, because it was kind of one of those things where, like, things were starting to come out that people were in the comments of her YouTube videos and, like, things were starting to get a little weird. But it was before anything officially happened, and it was very much like, even if clients ask for this, like, we're not working with eight passengers. So, like, people kind of had this idea of something weird is going on. Even before she got arrested officially, which you kind of see in the documentary, too, people started leaving comments like, you grounded your kid from his bedroom. What?
- [12:35]
Tina
Well, that's what the daughter Sherry says in her memoir, too, about how when Chad was on camera and he was like, you made me sleep in a beanbag chair for eight months or whatever.
- [12:45]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [12:45]
Tina
And she was like, I don't think the people know that. I was like, oh, but why did.
- [12:49]
Hannah
You keep it in? I know.
- [12:51]
Tina
Because she didn't think she was doing anything wrong. That's why.
- [12:54]
Hannah
Like, so scary.
- [12:55]
Tina
Yeah. But I think that was probably the point at which people were then sort of like, cancel culture. Canceling them. But, yeah, like, that is twisted. It's not good. Not good. That's fascinating, Hannah, though, I didn't know that on there. I know.
- [13:09]
Hannah
I can't believe we both had this.
- [13:10]
Tina
I know.
- [13:11]
Hannah
Me, I almost brought another one. But I'm glad that we were both able to talk about it, because I.
- [13:15]
Tina
Know, because this is one that you'll want to watch and be like, what on earth? Like, you'll want to, like, message other people.
- [13:19]
Hannah
It's one that. Even if you were spoiled for the whole thing, like, I. Like, I already knew. I knew the case.
- [13:24]
Tina
Yeah.
- [13:25]
Hannah
Before I watched it, but I was like, I want to see. I want to see, like, how they're going to tell this story. And it was still 100% fascinating. Even though I already knew what she was convicted of. I already kind of knew the story, but it was. It's definitely still worth A watch.
- [13:40]
Tina
100%. I think it added a lot to it. I had read this book, and, like, I was saying, like, I was like, oh, this is giving me a much more broad picture. I had not heard of these people before reading this book. I picked it up because one of our patrons, Genevieve, DM'd me, and she's like, have you read this? I'm like, what? No. And anyway, I grabbed it and had the audio, and I was like, okay, that was really good, but I did feel. I was like, what am I missing? And I think the piece that I was missing was understanding, like, how dark it got. I don't think I fully understood that from reading her memoir because, like, she's in it and she's also a kid.
- [14:13]
Hannah
Recapping her traumatic experience. So she's.
- [14:15]
Tina
And she did a great job recapping her experiences and being vulnerable and sharing and, you know, she was treated like trash, too. And, like, I still think both are worth watching because you really get her side of the story with this one. But, yeah, fun, fun. Well, we can transition into our latest read. And now, like, oddly, why am I a little nervous? I'm like, have. Do we have the same? Is our algorithm on Book Talk the same? Because.
- [14:40]
Hannah
Because I checked with you for my latest. Oh.
- [14:43]
Tina
Oh, perfect. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what we're talking about today was really fun to set up. We had Book Talk pick our read, sort of, and we'll explain it how we put our own twist on it. And by the way, I'm going to struggle this entire podcast to say Book Talk versus Book Talk. Anyway, so.
- [15:00]
Hannah
T O C or book.
- [15:01]
Tina
T O K. T O K. Book Talk. We're talking about Instagram for books, right? And we'll. Don't worry if you're like, I'm not on Book Talk. I don't care about TikTok. We'll. We'll explain, but I will hop into my latest read when I tell you it's my latest read. I literally was listening to the moment I turned on the camera with Hannah, because my latest read is Magnolia Parks by Jessa Hastings. And excited to hear you talk about this one. Give me a moment for this cover.
- [15:27]
Hannah
It's so pretty.
- [15:28]
Tina
I ordered the UK version from Blackwell's, and I don't know what got into. I decided that I needed a fun, good escape read, and instead of just, like, borrowing it, I bought all five from Blackwell's because I thought, here's the thing, I'm not going to make five separate Blackwell's orders. Like, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do all of it. And so I have all of them. They're beautiful. And I'll show all the covers, you know, on our YouTube page. But I will tell you about the book, and I'm very happy to say I enjoyed it. Thank God, because I put a lot of investment into this series. And what Magnolia Parks is about, I had always heard about it. I heard about it first from TikTok. But it is about Magnolia Parks, who is beautiful, affluent, very self involved, a little neurotic, and she is a London socialite. He is Britain's most photographed bad boy lothario who broke her heart. But Magnolia Parks and BJ Ballantyne are meant to be and everyone knows it. It's just in the stars, just suspended in a strange kind of love that hurts like looking at the sun. These two are toxic. She dates other people to keep him at bay. He sleeps with other girls to get back at her for it. But at the end of the day, they literally sleep in the same bed most nights because they're still best friends. They used to date when they were really young, like 15, 16 in boarding school. And now in, they're in their early 20s and they can't seem to quit each other no matter how destructive it is to both of their personalities and psyches. And then they are basically forced to decide, like, can we make this work? Is this ever going to work? And how many times can we hurt each other and still have each other in our lives? And this was really fun. This was really fun. This was the escape read that I was hoping for. Now I think a lot of people think it's a romance. It's my kind of romance. Meaning that it's not following the traditional formula. It reminds me of an English Gossip Girl. So if you watch that series, this is very much in line. You've got the fashion, you've got the toxicity, the love triangles, the will they, the won't they, the wealth, all of that, but in book form and set in London or in and around London. And okay, the first 150 pages or so is literally just Magnolia and BJ going back and forth. And I was like, guys, could you get it together? What is happening? Like, I kind of got over it. I'm like, this is annoying. And then what's funny is the author was able to very pointedly say she sort of has Magnolia address the reader at some points and she's like, I know you're probably thinking, why won't they just stick together? And I'm like, that's exactly what I'm thinking because you're annoying me. But I love that we're sort of in on it and like, you know, it's, it's meant to be that way. Then though, she gets into a situationship with somebody who is finally a great guy and actually a threat to bj. So it's sort of this fake dating plan. And I say that because I think it's such an important part to this book, I really thought. You can see it's long. I really thought we were going to get 400 pages of them, back and forth and back and forth. And you do, but you also get to see this fake dating relationship. I would not call this breezy. There's definitely infidelity. There's definitely drug usage. But again, since I'd like things a bit darker, that worked. I also would not call this a dark romance because there's plenty of funny moments, and Magnolia is a little bit superficial, and they all are. And, you know, they're talking about the shirts they're wearing, and she's obsessed with Gucci, and they're going on shopping sprees and things like that. So it's. The author did a really, really good job with balancing two things. It could have gotten really old, but I just thought it was pretty fun. I did the audio for some of this. I switched back and forth, and I enjoyed the narration. This was a great way to keep me entertained. It is very dramatic, but fun. And I really liked how BJ knew that he could not be the man she needed, yet he couldn't let her go. And there was something about his possessiveness that I really enjoyed, which maybe says something about me. It is complicated. It's not overly cheesy, and it's a good time. So this is Magnolia Parks, and it's book one in the Magnolia Parks universe. There's four more.
- [19:49]
Hannah
Are you planning on reading the others?
- [19:50]
Tina
I sure will. I sure will. And what I realized, because I was confused at first, is that the second book is called Daisy Hates, and that is a character, and you meet her in this book. And from what I understand, book two is told from Daisy's perspective. So I'm like, oh, my God, we're gonna do the whole thing again, but from a different pov. I'm like, okay, I can get behind that. And then book three is Magnolia Parks the Long Way Home. And then book four is Daisy Hates the Great Undoing. So I definitely am dying to know. This one ended on a real moment, and I'm so dumb. I am the dumbest reader, I promise you. I just go along to get along, and I'm having a blast. And all of a sudden, I'm, like, bowled over by what happened. And then I thought, you should have seen this coming, but I sure didn't, so that made it even better. But I loved it. Great. Highly recommend. I will continue. That's. I think I said it, but that's Magnolia Parks by Jessa Hastings.
- [20:43]
Hannah
I have a dumb reader moment that I will get to share.
- [20:46]
Tina
Yeah.
- [20:47]
Hannah
Here in a little bit. So, you know, we all. Well, at least you and I are out here struggling.
- [20:54]
Tina
I like it. I like being a reader. That's. And you're not like this. I'm much worse at this than you. You're more analytical than me when you're reading, but I just, like. I'm like, I'm enjoying the ride. I don't care where it's going. Let me know when I get.
- [21:05]
Hannah
It's fun to be surprised when you get to something, and that's part of the joy of reading, so.
- [21:09]
Tina
Agreed.
- [21:10]
Hannah
But I also just realized my vacuum cleaner is behind me and I didn't get rid of that before we started.
- [21:16]
Tina
Recording, so I can't see it if that does anything for you.
- [21:19]
Hannah
Oh, you can't hear some cobwebs before we started recording.
- [21:23]
Tina
I certainly need to do the same.
- [21:25]
Hannah
It was getting unreal in here. So, yeah, I've got my little vacuum cleaner back there. But. So my latest read is the Dream Hotel by Layla Lalamy, and this was a read with Jenna Pick for March, and it was also long listed for the Women's Prize when that was announced earlier this month, which I was excited to see. This is set in a near future where dreams are under surveillance and our protagonist, Sarah, returns to LA and agents detain her, claiming that an algorithm predicts that she is going to harm her husband. She is held in a facility with other accused women, and she faces all of these ever changing rules that end up prolonging her stay for longer than they had originally told her she was going to be there. And months end up passing, and then a new arrival ends up disrupting the system and everything that's going on there, and it pushes Sarah toward the corporations controlling their fate. This was a really chilling exploration of technology's grip on freedom and the limits of surveillance in defining identity. I thought that this book had, I mean, such a unique premise. Like, this is just there have been so many books about AI and technology, especially lately, which is understandable. And this one felt like it was really unique and fresh. It covers some political allegories with somewhat of a overt approach, but I think that because the premise was so unique, it managed to do that creatively through just this wild concept of using people's dreams to protect their societal roles. This book also talks a lot about how easily individuals can be brainwashed by oppressive systems. And I. Yeah, and I thought that it served as a really interesting reminder of how governments and people can manipulate narratives to lead people astray, even when it works against those people's own interests. And it highlights the influence of media and social movements. And I thought that this even ties into people's susceptibility for joining cults or following charismatic leaders. And another fascinating part of the story for me was the exploration of how easily individuals can be portrayed as guilty when there's not an actual crime. And the book emphasizes how, actually, when there is an absence of a real crime, but someone's being accused, it's nearly impossible for the accused to prove their innocence because there's no technical crime. And so then explored that in a really interesting way that I won't obviously, go into more details about, because I don't want to spoil you, but just some really interesting things explored here. And on top of it, Sarah, our protagonist, was really relatable, and her emotional journey felt really genuine and familiar. And I just really enjoyed following her alongside everything else that I thought that the book was trying to say. So I'm excited that this one made the Women's Prize long list. I think that if you enjoy really unique narratives in science fiction and literary fiction, that this could be one that really works for you. And I'm really glad that I read it. And that is the Dream Hotel by Leila Lalamy.
- [25:02]
Tina
I want to read this so bad. Would you say you walked away was. Did this bum you out when you were reading it?
- [25:10]
Hannah
It's hard to say. I don't think I felt, like, depressed or anything. I think I felt activated.
- [25:16]
Tina
Ah, good. Okay.
- [25:17]
Hannah
But I didn't feel like, man, we're all screwed.
- [25:21]
Tina
Right?
- [25:21]
Hannah
At all.
- [25:22]
Tina
Yeah, yeah, no, that's helpful because. Yeah, no, that's helpful. I think I'm just reflecting back on having read Tilt by Emma Petit, and I think the reason why I hated it so much. I didn't hate it, but was because it was a bummer. I mean, it was. There's no. Nothing about it activated me. It just depressed me. So I was curious if it, like, kind of gave you that. If it. If it gave you that balance, I guess.
- [25:46]
Hannah
No, yeah. It didn't make me feel hopeless or anything like that, but it definitely got me thinking and definitely made me feel a little bit activated.
- [25:53]
Tina
For sure. I love that premise. Definitely will be reading that one at some point because it sounds so good.
- [25:59]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [26:00]
Tina
All right. Well, today, book talk is talking book talk.
- [26:05]
Hannah
Yeah. Good job. I heard the difference. I heard the difference.
- [26:08]
Tina
Crying. It's helpful because of the Midwest accent, we say tack. So that one that helps me a little bit. But if you're not on TikTok, basically, of course, BookTok is similar to Bookstagram except it's, you know, books on TikTok and mostly it's videos, although some people do those swipe throughs where you can see from the carousels. Exactly. And I say they're mostly similar in. In theory they are. But I personally find the algorithm to be much better on TikTok than anywhere else. It pays attention to what you're watching and engaging with very closely. Very closely. Good, bad, otherwise. But for me, it's curated a fantastic list of really thoughtful reviewers. And I would say Bookstagram for me is better at making connections like connecting with other readers and knowing people. This one is more shot scattershot, where you're reaching a wide audience, but maybe you don't know who people are as well. Would you say one serves up a wider range of book recommendations for you than the other?
- [27:11]
Hannah
Yeah, I would say that. I feel like booktok serves a wider range in general because I do feel like there is still kind of a push for individual book reviews or, I don't know, like just a little bit more individualized things on Instagram in general. Whereas I feel like, because Book Talk is, I don't know, maybe I'm making up this reason, but I feel like because it's a little bit more focused around like more mass recommendation style content, that that kind of provides an opportunity, even on the platform itself for there to be a wider range of things being recommended in general.
- [27:49]
Tina
Yeah, I think for me, I. I was setting you up because I wanted to answer it myself. Sure.
- [27:55]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [27:55]
Tina
I find for me that TikTok does allow for me to get a wider range of recommendations. A lot of times I do see books that haven't heard of, but I don't think that is because people aren't sharing wide range on Bookstagram. I think it's because Instagram just shows you things you probably don't even care about. And it's half ads anyway, which you get ads on TikTok, but it's sort of a different vibe.
- [28:16]
Hannah
Yeah. And I feel like too, when I search for something on Instagram on my Explore feed, like post apocalyptic book recommendations, I will maybe get served some content or recommendations that I wouldn't normally get on my Explore page because I've searched for that thing, but then it won't show me that stuff anymore again. And it won't unless I like write down. Like even if I follow the person whose recommendation post I found through searching for that thing, I won't see that person's post anymore, even though I'm following them. Whereas, you know, on BookTok, the algorithm I think does work a little bit harder to be like, okay, this person searched for this thing and then they followed this person. So now I'm going to show you their content and I'm also going to show more content like this moving forward. And so I think that that can help because if especially you're an eclectic reader, like you and I both are, and you're even searching for a wider range of book recommendations, you're then going to continue to get those, those wider ranged book recommendations. And I think it makes sense because they say to really be successful on Instagram or like to have an account that works over there, you have to be pretty niched. And I think people, I think people want that even maybe, I don't know, maybe I'm making that up. But, you know, I do feel like things are a little bit more in these buckets on, on Instagram, so maybe there is more being offered. I don't ever see any of that.
- [29:51]
Tina
Sure, no, that makes a lot of sense. Right. I think if you post a lot of the same content frequently on Instagram, that it rewards that consistency.
- [30:01]
Hannah
Yeah, right.
- [30:02]
Tina
I find on TikTok I'm getting more backlist recommendations, which I do appreciate. I get a ton of backlist over there, whereas on Instagram it's mostly for me, front list. But that could be me because I have front list books. Sure. You know, people know that about me. Okay. So I know for TikTok or even BookTok, people are like, oh, all I see are the same 15 books on Booktok, I've never felt that once. But I think that's because I train the algorithm and I don't really engage in that content. I think what people are talking about are fantasy and Romantasy books, which I don't read anyway. So, like, I'm not seeing the same 15 because, like, I don't look at them in the first place. Do you see a lot of books? Like, was it easy for you to pick books that get recommended a lot?
- [30:44]
Hannah
No. And I'm pretty similar to you. However, if I search for certain things like romantasy book recommendations or things like that, then, and I do look through those videos, then I will start seeing that. I think again, like, we've curated our for you page pretty well and so I don't get a lot of those. And I feel like I follow a lot of literary fiction and horror Readers on Booktok, like, that's kind of where I go for those genres. And I think that those readers tend to recommend a wider range of things in general. Again, I think where you see a lot of that repetitiveness is through romantasy, romance and fantasy. And I don't know why that is.
- [31:31]
Tina
I don't know. Thriller too, though. I was just thinking for this video I really wanted. I am desperate for, like, really good popcorn thrillers that I haven't read yet. I even posted this on Threads. I was like, guys, I think I've read all of the popcorn thrillers in the world. Like, I think I've read them all, all of the good ones. And I want one that's well written and engaging and twisty and it's gonna shock me. Why does that feel impossible? But it's still popcorn, right? Because I love my literary suspense. That's different. I want like the ones that you can just gobble up in a day. And I can't find it because I think I've read a lot of them. So that is my new quest. But I even tried to find it a little bit for this and I was like, I can't find anything that's really jumping out. So what I was thinking too for this was book talk made me do it. Or those tables at Barnes and Noble that are like book talk books or book talk recommendations.
- [32:21]
Hannah
You brought this up.
- [32:22]
Tina
How do you think those books get dubbed like book talk books?
- [32:26]
Hannah
I don't know. And sometimes on those tables I'll go there and I'll see one of the books. And sometimes it's like, I think about the OG book talk popularity was like, what, 20, 20, 2021. And you would first start seeing those tables. It was like Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo, Song of Achilles. Like, there were a couple of those widely popular ones that you knew were popular on Booktok. But it was one of those things where I knew they were popular on Booktok, but I never saw them all the time.
- [32:56]
Tina
Yeah.
- [32:56]
Hannah
And so anyway, I'm digressing a little bit, but in the beginning when I would see those book talk tables and I think still today I look at them and I'm like, I haven't heard of half of these. And I'm on Booktok pretty regularly.
- [33:09]
Tina
So I think it's because we've done a good job with telling it what we like and making sure that that is something that is given. But I also, I don't know, I think it's probably a younger audience, I have to say. At least for me, they're like, you're probably not going to be reading anyway. Yeah, but I wonder how they get those, where those come from.
- [33:29]
Hannah
I also wonder too. So we're very immersed in the bookish space. A lot of our listeners are very immersed in the bookish space. Most content creators are. I do wonder if these tables are being curated by just people who read or want to get back into reading. And like, I think about when I was younger, before social media, when you would ask people like, what are the popular series that people are reading right now? And they would recommend a lot of. Well, they would recommend like the Hunger Games and things like that. Like those were the ver. Like book talk back then was just what everybody is reading. Whereas if you were maybe really immersed in the bookish space back then in the early aughts, maybe you would have more niche books recommendations. But because is what I'm saying make sense.
- [34:23]
Tina
I am following you until you said early aughts and then I lost you.
- [34:27]
Hannah
Well, I just mean, I just mean that I think because we're so immersed in the bookish space.
- [34:32]
Tina
I got it.
- [34:32]
Hannah
We are, we. We have to dig deeper to get unique book recommendations. Whereas someone who isn't is going to be like, oh, read the Hunger Games or read Song of Achilles. Like, those are books that are very widely loved and recommended. And so maybe these tables are getting curated by just who, like, I don't want to say like regular readers or.
- [34:54]
Tina
Whatever, but you know, there is something to be said for that because I do often think about when I'm recommending books. There are people like us who read a hundred books a year and then there are people that read a normal amount, maybe 10 books, which is still a ton and probably more than the general population. And I think, gosh, if you're reading 10 books in a year, like, is this one going to be on your short list? I don't know if I would make it on your short list because I think if you're recommending books to people, you're going to recommend different things to turbo readers like us versus people that are reading just sort of recreationally and casual. Yeah, you're right.
- [35:29]
Hannah
There are people walking into a library every single day that haven't picked up a book in years and they just discovered Taylor Jenkins Reid for the first time or they've never even heard of Riley Sager and they're like sitting there like, have you ever heard of Riley Sager? His thrillers are so fun. And you know, you're like, yeah, we definitely have, but they haven't.
- [35:50]
Tina
Yeah.
- [35:51]
Hannah
And that's really when they're searching book talk for these things. Maybe they are going to get kind of these really big umbrella recommendations because they're good places to start.
- [36:01]
Tina
I think when I first, I remember for like, honest to God, a year and a half, maybe two years, every time I would open Facebook and look at some of the book groups, it'd be like, have you guys read Verity? Have you read Verity by telling you?
- [36:14]
Hannah
Exactly.
- [36:14]
Tina
And it's like, I felt so bad for the people by the end because, like, to them, they're like so excited and they're like, oh my gosh, book was incredible. And I'm somebody that wants to let people love what they love by and large. Right. You know, don't yuck on someone's yum. But a lot of times toward the end especially people would post that and they're like, we've all read it. Quit talking about this book. And I'm like, this person just discovered it. Let them live. Yeah. I don't know, I'm just always interested in like what the metrics are and like, how do they pull that. But for this video, I think we had a kind of a fun way to do this. I didn't just pick popular booktok books. I was paying a lot of attention to the people that I go to for book recommendations. And so when I'm in TikTok, you can save something. You can save somebody's video to a collection. So I have a collection in TikTok that's all book recommendations. I had about a hundred people or a hundred different videos saved to this space. And so I got real nerdy with it and I made a spreadsheet of everyone and you know how many times they got mentioned. And then I took the top three creators and rewatched their videos to build my tbr.
- [37:16]
Hannah
That's so fun.
- [37:16]
Tina
Did you do something similar?
- [37:19]
Hannah
Yes. And when you first mentioned that this is what you did, at first I was like, what now? And then we talked about it more and I was like, oh, I do this too. And yeah, I have a folder when I save things on, on TikTok on BookTok and one of the folders is titled Book Recommendations. And I was looking through and I noticed that there were definitely some people's videos that I saved more than others. And I kind of looked at creators that I save the most content from and chose books from those creators. Well, that's what I did. So that's what I did for, for one of them and then there was another one that I chose that I just know is really widely recommended. And I've seen it a lot. It's in the fantasy space. And I've also seen it a lot on booktok tables and things like that. So I did a little bit of both.
- [38:09]
Tina
Yeah. And that it was fun to sort of really go in on figuring out what they are and who. Who the people are that I save the most. And I was actually surprised. I had. I don't know if you kept track of yours, but I had Ghostly reads. Sonia, who does a fabulous job with horror every time. I swear, I'm like, not surprised at all that she was in my top also.
- [38:29]
Hannah
She's in my top two.
- [38:30]
Tina
Is she? Yeah. Also coffee and quintos. I save a lot of her videos. And then Madison Can Read came in at the top, and I was so surprised. Not that I don't love Madison's content. I was just like, oh, yeah, no, this makes sense. As I was watching the videos, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I remember saving that and that and that. So I built my TBR from there. And do you want to hear about the books or what?
- [38:52]
Hannah
Yeah, I do share the first one.
- [38:55]
Tina
All right, so that's sort of our setup for this. And I will share my first one. It is a recommendation from Madison Can Read. I believe this was her favorite book of last year. And it has already been mentioned on the show, but I'll explain. It's My Husband by Maude Ventura. Did you read this one?
- [39:11]
Hannah
No, I haven't.
- [39:12]
Tina
Okay. Okay. It is a book in translation. It's translated from French. And this is a book about an unnamed narrator who is 40 years old and has a enviable life. She has a successful career, stunning looks, a beautiful house in the suburbs, two healthy children, and most importantly, an ideal husband. After 15 years together, she is still besotted with him, but she is never quite sure that her passion is received, reciprocated. After all, would a truly infatuated man ever let go of his wife's hand when they're sitting on the couch together? And she is determined to keep their relationship perfect and as exciting as it was when they first met. So she meticulously prepares for every encounter they have, always taking care to make her actions seem effortless. For example, she is a blonde, but not really. She gets it colored every, like, six weeks. And he doesn't know it. And she, like, hides the little appointments and stuff because she doesn't want him to know that she's not actually Blonde, which made me laugh. And she also is very. She's a writer, but she's also somebody that keeps a grudge. So every sort of little misstep he makes, she writes it down and makes note of it. This book is an ode to women who have always been told that they are too much. The narrator is funny. She doesn't mean to be funny, but she had me cracking up. She is obsessive. She's also a translator and a part time teacher. So she has other things going on in her life, but primarily her. Her daily obsessions are consumed by her husband. She idolizes this man and again, every decision she makes is in service of being perfect for him. And she didn't grow up with money. They're very wealthy. She did not come from money. And so during the book, I was kind of wondering, I'm like, oh, does he know her background and what was her background? And she's sort of. It's so fascinating to watch her as she observes other people that do come from that background and tries to figure out what it is they're doing, like how to dress, how to wear her hair because she wants to make it look effortless. There is this moment in this book that is absolutely unhinged and hilarious. They are playing this party game at a dinner party and it's like, if you were a fruit, what type of fruit would you be? And they're answering that question for their partners. And her husband says that she would be a clementine. And she loses her mind because he says that his best friend's wife would be a pineapple. And clementines are just there, readily available, whereas a pineapple is exotic, rare, and something you have to work, work for. And she just spirals. And this damn clementine gets mentioned chapter after chapter, and it made me giggle. This one reminded me of Vladimir by Julia Mae Jonas, which is a compliment. It's dark, it's uncomfortable, it's kind of slow ish. But it's a really intoxicating character study and it's messy and weird. And I really vibed with this one. And Hannah, it is a stream of consciousness book and I. You're in your head, her head the entire time. But I liked it. So maybe I don't mind stream of consciousness if it's the right narrator, sure. And I read this in a day. I was just like vacuuming my house, like having a ball with this lady. Nothing happens. And yet I couldn't look away, basically. Love the ending. It's a novel of obsession. It's a Novel of self deprecation. It's quiet, and it's about the everyday madness of love. This one's definitely worth your time. It is My Husband by Maude Ventura.
- [42:44]
Hannah
Oh, fun. Yeah. I don't know if I would have, like, picked this book as something. Well, I haven't read it, for one thing, but just from what I know about it of like, oh, that sounds like a Tina book.
- [42:53]
Tina
Yeah.
- [42:54]
Hannah
But I'm so glad that you read it and that it really worked for you. The Clementine thing, It made me laugh so much.
- [42:59]
Tina
Yeah. And I guess it is a me book. It is kind of weird.
- [43:02]
Hannah
Yeah.
- [43:03]
Tina
But I don't know. For whatever reason, this has been on my list for ages. I know why. Renee had wrought it years ago, and I enjoyed it when she mentioned. When she talked about it, and I was like, yeah, that's on my list. But then I noticed that I also got the recommendation from TikTok as well.
- [43:18]
Hannah
Right, right. Do you remember if Renee liked it or not?
- [43:21]
Tina
She did. I texted her. Cause I was like, did you like this book? Because I was trying to decide as I was read, and I'm like, would she like this? I think she would. I think. I seem to remember her getting annoyed by the use of my husband because I did the audio. And she says, my husband, like 2,000 times. And like, I liked it because it added to the just mania of this lady. But.
- [43:40]
Hannah
And how much she's thinking about that. Yeah.
- [43:42]
Tina
How much she's ruminating over my husband. It was really unnamed, I think so if he has a name. I don't know it. I never learned it.
- [43:49]
Hannah
So it was her husband.
- [43:50]
Tina
It was her husband. That was his identity. I'm pretty sure he's unnamed as well, but I'm not 100%.
- [43:55]
Hannah
Oh, I love that. I. I don't know why, but I do. Like an unnamed. Like an unnamed narrator or an unnamed character. I think it's interesting.
- [44:02]
Tina
It's hard to do.
- [44:03]
Hannah
That's fun.
- [44:04]
Tina
And I feel like when it's done well, it really works. Also, I was impressed with the translation. Not for nothing, I also thought it was kind of fun that she worked as a literature translator. So it was kind of this Inception.
- [44:15]
Hannah
A little meta.
- [44:16]
Tina
A little meta. Exactly like that.
- [44:18]
Hannah
So my first book that I chose is from a creator that you actually mentioned, Coffee and Cuentos. I save a lot of her videos as well. And she's also great on Instagram too. She shares a lot of stuff there on. On both platforms, and I really enjoy following her in both places. She also is a co owner of the Night Worms subscription box, which she does with Sadie from Mother Horror. So if you're interested in that, you can check that out. I just think that that's an interesting tidbit, but her recommendations are really good. And I have been telling her for forever that I'm finally going to read a couple of books, this being one of them, and that is Human Sacrifices by Maria Fernanda Empero. And it is translated by Frances Riddle. So I have a funny caveat to share about this one, but I'm going to tell you about it first. So this is a collection of 12 chilling stories of exploitation and survival. We have an undocumented woman trapped by a deceptive job offer. One story follows a group of individuals who are fixated on drowned surfers. And we follow another story about a couple who become lost in a nightmarish maze within a parking garage. And I have more to say on that specific story as well. But this is a tropical gothic collection that exposes the decay beneath a ruthless and capitalist world where the marginalized suffer for the elite's comfort. It was haunting and incisive, and it really lays bare the cost of a society that consumes its most vulnerable. So here's my funny caveat. I never knew that this was a short story collection. So I started it and I'm listening to it on audio while I'm cooking dinner. And it's really good. The first story is just like really powerful. It so atmospheric, the writing is beautiful, and it remains that way throughout the whole collection. But I am. I am sucked in right away. And then the second story comes on. Bear in mind, I still am not aware that this is a short story collection. So the sec. I think it's just the second chapter of the book. And I was like, wow, okay, I think we're getting some backstory maybe on this character, because this is pretty different. And then we get to the third story and I was like, man, there are a lot of characters in this. Like, this is. Where were they really feeling different? And so I paused and I was like, I'm gonna pause. And I looked up some reviews, including from. From Ashley. And I was like, oh, this is a short story collection. I'm gonna start over. Knowing that. And thankfully I was only like three stories in. But anyway, I just thought that I would make that really clear before talking about it. But I'm almost glad that I didn't know because I don't pick up short story collections a lot, and I don't. I almost Wonder if I wouldn't have avoided picking this up knowing that it was a short story collection. And I ended up being so happy that I read it. These stories were haunting. They were gross. I mean, really. I mean, a lot of horror has trigger warnings, but, like, almost everyone imaginable for this one, because each story really covered something quite different and a different type of horror. Like, there's, you know, stalking. There's, like, assault. Some of it's body horror, some of it involves children. Like, there's just a lot happening here. But one story in particular I am going to talk about specifically because it's one of the last stories in the collection. And I was listening to it on my way to work this week. And the. It was the story that I mentioned in the synopsis about the couple that is in a fight. And they're in this kind of maze within this parking garage, and they're fighting about something. And this is a story that deals a lot with, like, claustrophobia. Like, you're feeling really claustrophobic with this couple that are in this parking garage. They can't find their car. And all of a sudden, like, all the cars are gone in the parking garage. They're the only ones there. And then they think someone's following them. Them. And I'm really engrossed in this story. The audio was so good. And then I. You know how you're on autopilot sometimes while you're driving? So I was kind of on autopilot and the story ended. And then I looked up and I'm in my parking garage at work because I had just gotten to work and there is not a single car in the level that I was in. And I was just like, oh, my. Okay. I just read this really creepy story about a parking garage. And I am sitting here, standing, like, sitting here in a parking garage in my car, and it is empty. I'm gonna go up a level. And so I, like, went up a level. There were some cars up there, but it was just one of those reading experiences that outside of me, just really enjoying this collection altogether, I thought that it was really beautiful, well written, harrowing. That is a particular reading experience that I'm never going to forget because it was just so unique. And I love it when that happens in reading. And it definitely, definitely just made an imprint on my reading memory. So I thought that I would mention that here. And that is Human Sacrifices by Maria Fernanda Emperoro. And it's translated by Frances Riddle.
- [49:41]
Tina
I'm glad that you picked that up, because same I don't read a lot of short stories for no reason other than I'm like. I like a longer. I want to get immersed. But, you know, it sounds like it was a happy accident that ended up being quite scary.
- [49:53]
Hannah
It was quite scary and quite good. So I'm glad that she recommends that one so widely, because I can see why.
- [49:59]
Tina
Yes. Okay. So I picked the second book, and this is a recommendation from Sonia. It is this Thing Between Us by Gus Moreno. Oh, my God. Okay. This book, I. I had no idea what to expect. I just knew that it was horror. And I had seen it the first time. One of the first times I saw it in person, I was shopping in Chicago at one of our local bookstores, Exile in Bookville. And I remember it was a shelf talker there, and I was like, huh, what is this book? So I'm so glad that I finally picked it up, because this one is about Thiago, and he is grieving. It opens at his wife's funeral, which obviously is horrifying. And it is a. Also a very powerful way to sort of pull the reader right into his emotional state. And at first you're just sort of going through. You know, I'm thinking, okay, it's a horror novel, but the horror must be. It's grief horror. That's what I was thinking that we were getting with this one, which I'm totally fine with. And then you come to find out that they live together in Chicago, which I loved. They lived in Little Village, and they happened to buy a condo there and in their home. So this book obviously takes you back to when Vera was still alive. They are finding strange things in their house. They have this speaker. They're calling it an Eatsa. It's kind of like an Alexa, but it's, like doing weird things with their lights. It's sending weird packages to their house, even though they didn't order it. They're finding random cold spots. They're hearing scratching, and they're like, all right, something is up here. And then the beginning half of this book is sort of funny and strange. And then you come to see what happened to Vera, and it just sort of stops everything dead in its tracks by design. And I think that was a really good choice on the author's part because then you get to transition to the second half of the novel when Thiago is sort of like, all right, I need to start over somewhere. I need to do something. And so he ups and moves to Colorado, and he is still very much grieving, but feels like, this is a perfect time to get away and sort of figure his life out. And then he gets there. What do you know? Things are weird there as well.
- [52:11]
Hannah
Oh. Huh.
- [52:13]
Tina
What do you know? And I want to say, okay, but don't write it off, guys. I know you're going to when I say this next thing, but there's a dog and the dog dies, and it's pretty upsetting. So I'm just saying that I. Good warning in the synopsis, but you should know that. But know that this is horror, and the dog is not the only one that gets affected. A lot of bad things happen in this one. And. And that is when this. What happens to this dog is when things really get messed up because you come to understand the COVID There's the dog on the COVID and there's this red thing in the middle. And the red thing in the middle is this wall that keeps appearing. And that's when things get really funky. I was obsessed with this. Again, read it in the course of a day, maybe a day and a half. It's like 250 pages. If grief horror that leads into something that's really otherworldly. Sounds interesting to you. You absolutely should pick this one up. It's a little bit cosmic horror as well, which I didn't quite know what that meant until I was reading this one. I'm just trying to decide. This is one of the books. You kind of have to just pick it up. It's not overly horrifying. Actually, it is. It is pretty horrifying, especially towards the end. It reminded me, oddly, a little bit of Stephen King's Pet Sematary, which is a great compliment for me because I loved that book. And more than anything else, you just really feel for this character, Thiago, and I felt bad for him. I love this author's writing. I love the way that this author incorporated some Mexican folklore into it. And sort of he explains in his author's note the background and things that he incorporated and where that came from. I absolutely loved book. I think it's really smart. And I think if you like horror and you just want to pick up something that's unsettling and a little bit fantastical and just a WTF did I just read? Type book. Then you should read it. It is this Thing Between Us by Gus Moreno. Have you read this?
- [54:23]
Hannah
So I actually almost brought this one for this episode, but it was recommended by Brandon Baker from Baker Reads, so he recommends this one a lot too. I ended up choosing something different, which I'm Glad I did because. Because you brought it.
- [54:37]
Tina
We would be so screwed. I know.
- [54:39]
Hannah
We were so in sync this episode. Wild. But you mentioned something that had me thinking about another thing that I like specifically about Booktok is you mentioned, like, this is cosmic horror. You mentioned Mexican folklore, which makes me think of folk horror. And it made me realize Booktok is kind of the Reddit of book recommendation sources because you will learn all of these really niche things about genres that you like and things like that. Whereas I feel like on other platforms it's very much like horror recommendations or romance recommendations. Whereas you get on Booktok and it's like, here are cosmic horror recommendations that deal with grief. You're like, okay, I came to the right place.
- [55:26]
Tina
Yes.
- [55:27]
Hannah
It's like the Reddit threads of book people. And I love that about Booktok and you saying that just. Just made me realize it. It's very niched down and I love that.
- [55:39]
Tina
I love that. Yeah, same.
- [55:41]
Hannah
Okay, I guess it's my turn.
- [55:42]
Tina
I'm like sitting here right now. I know I can't do.
- [55:46]
Hannah
So this is a. It's a YA fantasy that has been recommended a lot and I feel like I've seen a resurgence of it on Booktok specifically. And when I see people who read a lot of romance and fantasy, I do just keep seeing this one being recommended again. And it's been on my TBR for forever. So I was like, you know what? This is a perfect opportunity to finally get to this one. And that is the Ember in the Ashes by Sabaa Tahir. And this is book one. And I want to say. I want to say there are four books. I don't think it's a trilogy. I think that there's four. But this is the first one. It's set in the Marshall Empire, where defiance means death. We are following Laia, whose brother is arrested at the beginning of the novel for treason, and she ends up striking a dangerous bargain with the rebels of the Empire. She is going to spy within the Empire's top military academy in order to save her brother. It is there that she meets Elias, the school's best soldier who secretly longs for freedom from this military empire. And their paths intertwine. Their choices end up shaping the entire fate of the empire. And this book is actually inspired by ancient Rome and it was really fun and a really gripping and exciting tale of resistance and loyalty and destiny. I really want to read more. Young adult fantasy, regular fantasy, romantic fantasy. I just don't know why I feel this way every time I read a fantasy book or Romantasy? I'm like, why don't I read this? More I love them. I had so much fun reading this. First of all, the setting and world building was so well done. It was atmospheric and I could really easily picture everything happening in the book, which is a big deal for me because I'm a big I play the movie in my head while I'm reading, kind of a reader. And sometimes with fantasy, like the action scenes or the world building can be so complex and convoluted that while it seems cool, it will take me a really long time to read because I'm having such a hard time picturing everything. This was both well written but also just felt really accessible for my brain and the way I picture things while I read. The battle scenes weren't so overwritten that I couldn't keep up, but they were still exciting and I felt like the characters were really well developed. Although I wanted a little bit more from Laia, our main character, but I'm hoping that we get to see that a little bit more in book two. It also involves trials, which I think are always fun to read about. It also has not only one love triangle, but two, so that was fun. I know that's not for everybody. I love it. This was also just a good reminder for me that young adult can still work when it is well written and thoughtful. I will definitely say that if you have young adult readers, check the trigger warnings on this one. There is rape mentioned and it's nothing graphic that happens on the page, but there is a decent amount of talk about it. There's a decent amount of violence and there is some cursing. So I would say that this leans more toward the older side of young adult fiction, especially for the other earlier things that I mentioned with the violence and sexual violence. So I just want to mention that because I know we have parents that listen to the show and might have teenagers and are having their ears perked. So just know your readers and know your audience. But I think that if you are an adult reader who still really enjoys young adult or maybe Mrs. Reading young adult but doesn't like want something still really good quality, this would be a great option. I totally see why this one is so popular and has remained widely recommended even though it's a a fairly backlist title, I really hope that I can stay committed to the series and finish it because I tend to struggle with but I really want to with this one and I really enjoyed it and that was the Ember in the Ashes by Sabaa Tahir, I'm glad you read that.
- [60:08]
Tina
I want you to read more fantasy. And I was going to ask if you plan to continue on in the series and it sounds like you'd like to.
- [60:14]
Hannah
I got to. This is one of those ones where when it ends you're like, okay, yeah, yeah, this doesn't stand on its own. I gotta read the other one.
- [60:21]
Tina
Yeah, that's how I feel about Magnolia Parks. Are we series girlies? No.
- [60:25]
Hannah
I don't know.
- [60:26]
Tina
I think you are.
- [60:27]
Hannah
An episode. Maybe we should play in an episode where we read other books in the series.
- [60:31]
Tina
All right. People are probably like, don't do it. And I'm like, too bad.
- [60:35]
Hannah
Too bad. It's our show.
- [60:36]
Tina
We'll read what we want. Damn it. All right, I will wrap things up with my shelf edition. This is one that's hot off the press. I just got approved last night via NetGalley and it is. It's not the End of the World by Jonathan Parks Ramage. And this one is from the author of yes Daddy, which if you want a dark thriller, that is a really good one. This one, I was interested to know that it's a climate thriller and it's a vicious takedown of the uber wealthy and a queer family saga, which sounds fabulous for me. So this one is set in the near future and it sounds maybe a little bit too realistic for right now, but it is a time where life is bleak for many Americans. But Mason is the main character and he is very, very wealthy and sort of blissfully unaware of all of that is going on. And they are so. He and his partner are so out of touch that they are throwing a 100 person, $100,000 baby shower to celebrate their newborn on the way. And then the inconvenient apocalypse hits the day of their celebration. And so the wealthy gay couple refuses to cancel their party because surely it's not the end of the world. But as Mason runs a few last minute errands, a staggering twist thrusts him into the mounting chaos and threatens the lives of everyone he holds dear. This one is shot through with biting wit, brutal gore, primal sex, and unexpected catharsis. It's not the End of the World is a nerve shredding roller coaster of a novel that will leave readers shocked, heartbroken, and inspired to question their most firmly held convictions.
- [62:11]
Hannah
Interesting.
- [62:12]
Tina
Yeah. So read this one if you are not afraid to lean into real world issues that, like, might feel a little bit too prescient and could be on the verge of happening. If you're okay with that type of reading experience, then get this one. I just know this author can write, and I don't know if this is his sophomore novel or if he has others, but I really like yes Daddy, so I'm definitely interested to see this one. And I love that setup. This is it's not the End of the World by Jonathan Park, Parks Ramage.
- [62:39]
Hannah
Yes, Daddy has been on my TBR for a while. It's one of those ones that anytime I do an unhaul, I come across that one and I'm like, no, I still want to read this one.
- [62:48]
Tina
I mean, it's so sure.
- [62:50]
Hannah
But I mean, can be right in my wheelhouse.
- [62:53]
Tina
Exactly.
- [62:54]
Hannah
Yes. Might work for me. Okay, so my shelf edition is called Finding Grace by Loretta Rothschild, and this one comes out in June. And this is about honor, who has it all, her beloved daughter Chloe and a devoted husband. Until her longing for another child is overshadowed by a shocking event years later. Tom's fateful decision sets off some unforeseen consequences, intertwining two women's lives. And we have a story here where past and present timelines and POVs collide and secrets resurface. This says that it is a gripping tale of moral dilemmas, lost dreams, and the power of second chances. And I have actually heard quite a few, like, early reviews for this one that have said that it's really good. I've had a couple friends reach out to me on Instagram being like, do you have this one on NetGalley? Have you heard of it? It's coming out in June and I've already started it and I think you'll really like it it so because the COVID the COVID is not appealing to me of this one if you, if you look it up. But it looks like it is going to be a really like, dramatic and kind of thrilling family story is what I've heard so far. And I've had a few people ahead of time tell me that this is definitely one to keep on the radar. And I recently had it added to my Kindle, so I'm excited to give this one a shot. It comes out in June and that's called Finding Grace by Loretta Rothschild.
- [64:27]
Tina
Yes, I've heard of that one as well. And I love when reader friends are like, have you heard of this? This. This is going to be in your.
- [64:32]
Hannah
Because this is going to be you.
- [64:33]
Tina
This is going to be a for you type of read.
- [64:36]
Hannah
Love that.
- [64:37]
Tina
Well, this was so fun. Thank you for talking books with me today and listeners. Thank you for listening as always that is it for today. We thank you for spending a part of your day with us. Links to all the books mentioned can be found in the show notes and if you enjoyed today's episode, you can help us by following wherever you listen and by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps get our our show up to new listeners and grows our audience. And don't forget, if you want access to our exclusive bonus content, join us for $5 a month on patreon.com booktalk etc for this month. We're so excited. We just filmed Bookstore browse and I say filmed because it's going to have a video component as well for patrons. So if you want to see that, like sign up.
- [65:18]
Hannah
So fun. I'm really excited about the video as well. If you'd like to connect with us, you can email us@booktalk etcmail.com you can also connect with us both at Booktalk etc on Instagram and Tina TVR etc and Hannah at handpickedbooks. Talk to you next week.
- [65:35]
Tina
And in the meantime, remember, everything's better with books. Yay.