Celebrating Pride with Queer Genre-Fiction

Summary

Podcast Summary: Book Talk, etc. – "Celebrating Pride with Queer Genre-Fiction"

Release Date: June 3, 2025
Host/Authors: Tina (@tbretc) and Hannah (@hanpickedbooks)
Description: A book recommendation podcast that's bound to grow your TBR!

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Introduction and Personal Banter

The episode opens with Tina and Hannah engaging in light-hearted banter, playfully mispronouncing words like "Spruce" and "Spiff," setting a relaxed and friendly tone for the discussion.

Notable Quote:

• Hannah [00:00]: "Obviously we can like Spur Spurf. I don't know what the hell that word is."

Patreon Promotion

Tina introduces their Patreon platform, highlighting the benefits for supporters, including access to exclusive bonus content, a supportive community, and special events like their monthly community read.

Notable Quote:

• Tina [00:29]: "Patreon is an online membership platform that gives you a way to financially support our podcast and for $5 a month you get access to all of our bonus content."

Personal Updates and Activities

Tina shares her enthusiasm for bird watching, detailing the variety of birds they’ve been observing and recommending the Merlin app for bird identification.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina [03:41]: "We got a lot of bird feeders in the backyard, a bird bath back there. When I tell you it is a full Animal Planet."
• Hannah [04:55]: "I go, did I turn you onto it? She's like, no, I don't think so."

Exploring Queer Genre-Fiction

The core of the episode focuses on celebrating Pride through the lens of queer genre-fiction. Tina and Hannah discuss their intentional selection of books featuring queer characters who are confidently living their identities rather than exploring the coming-out process. They deliberate on the categorization of LGBTQ+ literature, agreeing that queerness should be an integral aspect of various genres rather than a standalone genre.

Notable Quotes:

• Hannah [23:21]: "I think LGBTQ books can subvert traditional genres and tropes... but I wouldn't consider it a genre in and of itself."
• Tina [25:08]: "It sort of makes it too narrow."

Book Reviews and Recommendations

1. "Staircase in the Woods" by Chuck Wendig

A horror novel about friends revisiting a mysterious staircase in the forest twenty years after one of them disappeared.

Discussion Highlights:

• Both hosts rated the book highly, appreciating its character development and horror elements.
• Tina praised the audiobook narration by Exy Sands for enhancing the experience.
• Hannah noted the book’s self-awareness and creative plot twists.

Notable Quotes:

• Hannah [14:21]: "This was definitely a five plus star for me."
• Tina [15:40]: "It’s a horror trope that I really, really like."

2. "A Gentleman’s Gentleman" by T.J. Alexander

A historical Regency romance featuring a trans protagonist navigating societal expectations and personal identity.

Discussion Highlights:

• Tina admired the wit and character depth, comparing it to "Bridgerton" but with a deeper exploration of identity.
• The narrative’s slow burn and authentic relationships were highlighted as strengths.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina [30:03]: "It really is Bridgerton-esque... nothing I like more than old timey burn."
• Hannah [31:22]: "It would be a good comp if you enjoyed Bridgerton or books like that."

3. "Rainbow Black" by Maggie Thrash

A contemporary mystery set against the backdrop of the Satanic Panic of the 1990s, focusing on a queer protagonist fighting against mass hysteria and personal trauma.

Discussion Highlights:

• Hannah praised its rich character study and historical setting.
• The book’s exploration of sisterhood, queerness, and legal drama resonated strongly with both hosts.

Notable Quotes:

• Hannah [36:49]: "I have found my brand. This is an easy five stars from me."
• Tina [44:06]: "I really love that we brought these books that we love."

4. "Disappoint Me" by Nicola Dinan

A contemporary exploration of heteronormativity through the eyes of a trans woman in her early 30s, grappling with identity and societal expectations.

Discussion Highlights:

• Tina lauded the book for its deep character exploration and relatable struggles.
• The dual narrative perspective added depth to the storytelling.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina [40:41]: "This book is fabulous. It is fantastic."
• Hannah [43:08]: "Max's biggest fear is staying too long at the party."

5. "Girl Serpent Thorn" by Melissa Bashardoust

A young adult standalone fantasy inspired by Persian folklore, featuring a cursed princess seeking freedom from her fate.

Discussion Highlights:

• Hannah found the pacing and character development flawless.
• The love triangle and themes of family, belonging, and identity were well-received, though some wished for a more pronounced romance.

Notable Quotes:

• Hannah [47:07]: "It was just so fun and engaging and had so many surprises."
• Tina [48:33]: "It’s a YA book, so... it forms a good blend."

6. "The Salvage" by Anbara Salaam

Set in 1962 Scotland, this ghostly mystery follows a marine archaeologist uncovering artifacts from a Victorian shipwreck while encountering supernatural phenomena.

Discussion Highlights:

• Tina was excited by the blend of ghosts, winter storms, and maritime mystery.
• The book's setting in Scotland added a unique atmospheric element.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina [48:13]: "You have ghosts, you got a winter storm, you got spooky under the water stuff."
• Hannah [50:19]: "I like that title, the Salvage."

7. "Kind of Trouble" by Tochi Ezzi

A powerful debut that delves into forbidden love, family legacy, and mental health across generations in Nigeria and Atlanta.

Discussion Highlights:

• Hannah appreciated its exploration of generational trauma and mental health.
• The multi-generational narrative and rich character arcs were highlighted as strengths.

Notable Quotes:

• Hannah [51:47]: "It's a powerful debut about forbidden love, family legacy, and the search for healing in a changing world."

Conclusion and Closing Remarks

Tina and Hannah wrap up the episode by reiterating their book selections and expressing their enthusiasm for the stories they’ve discussed. They encourage listeners to follow them on various platforms, leave reviews, and support their Patreon for exclusive content.

Notable Quotes:

• Tina [52:07]: "All right, well, that's it for today. We thank you for spending a part of your day with us."
• Hannah [53:08]: "Talk to you next week. And in the meantime, remember, everything's better with book."

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This episode of Book Talk, etc. offers a rich exploration of queer genre-fiction, celebrating diverse narratives that highlight characters confidently living their identities across various genres. With thoughtful reviews and insightful discussions, Tina and Hannah provide listeners with engaging recommendations perfect for Pride celebrations and beyond.

Transcript

[Hannah]

Obviously we can like Spur Spurf. I don't know what the hell that word is. Spruce.

[Tina]

Spruce. Spiff.

[Hannah]

Spurf. Spurf. I think it was a mix between Spruce and Spiff Spurf. We can spurf it up.

[Tina]

We can spark it up.

[Hannah]

Okay, cool. Spark it. I like it.

[Tina]

Welcome to Book Talk Etc, a podcast bound to grow your tbr. I'm Tina from TBR Etc.

[Hannah]

And I'm Hannah from Hand Picked Books.

[Tina]

This is a conversational podcast about books and more from two Midwest Mood readers who are easily distracted by new releases and today we read genrequeer books.

[Hannah]

If you enjoy listening, we'd love for you to follow us on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. And if you have a quick minute, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or sharing us on social media. It truly helps us connect with other book lovers.

[Tina]

Hey, it is the start of a new month so we wanted to take the time to invite you to join us on Patreon. Patreon is an online membership platform that gives you a way to financially support our podcast and for $5 a month you get access to all of our bonus content. Now it's bonus content, but also our Patreon Group is such a wonderful, supportive community of readers and if you've ever wanted your reading to be more of a social experience, this is a great way to find that connection. Hannah and I are also super involved in our Patreon and so if you ever wanted to come hang with us or chat with us on a deeper level, we would love to have you. And for $5 a month you get access to two bonus episodes in one recorded event as well as invites to our Book Talk, et cetera. Discord Server and Facebook Group. We also host a monthly community read in our Discord, which is our monthly text based book club. We have spreadsheets for patrons, five star reads and a list of all the books mentioned on our Book Talk, et cetera main show. And if you like Summer Bonanza. Last month our patrons received this beautiful, beautiful PDF that Hannah put together with all of our book recommendations and we also did a bonus Summer Bonanza list so they got an additional 10 summer reads that we are very excited about for June. Our bonus episodes are a what's in the Mailbag episode and niche novels and our live event is a Mood Reader happy hour and our Community Read is the book that I'm holding right here. It is King of Ashes by SA Cosby. If this sounds like something you are interested in, we'd love to have you Join us. Head to patreon.com booktalk etc. And be sure to do it on your web browser, not in an app. Do it in the web browser or look for the link in our show notes. And as always, thank you for your support. Hey, Hannah, how are you?

[Hannah]

Hi. I am doing great. Tina and I are just, you know, having a little bit of a giggle fit right now, so bear with us.

[Tina]

I know we're having a good time today, and I feel like it's because we're not in the middle of a million things. We're, like, able to focus and relax. I'm like, this is lovely. What a delight.

[Hannah]

We both kind of finished our days a little bit earlier than normal, and this is our final thing that we have.

[Tina]

I know, and it's fun. It feels like happy hour is what I'm getting at. Even though, you know, it's not technically. But your week has been a busy one. It's been good.

[Hannah]

Yeah, it's been busy, and I think it's. Well, it's been busy for the podcast, too, and busy for the book world in general. You know, summer reading is such a big deal. It's always such a fun time in the book community. And also, work has been a little bit hectic. School is winding down. How has this week been for you?

[Tina]

Fine. We are deep into. I mean, my oldest school ended, like, two weeks ago, so we're deep into summer break over here.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Tina]

But we also got a lot of bird feeders in the backyard, a bird bath back there. When I tell you it is a full Animal Planet. We have blue jays. We have starlings. There's, of course, robins. There's a million. I mean, at one point, I was looking at six different bird species and a squirrel on the ground, and I'm like, I'm in heaven. This is the best. So every time we had a couple friends over yesterday for book club, and we were like, look out the window. Look at all the different birds we're getting. And there. People had a good time with it. So that's what we've been up to. Very heavily into bird watching, as always.

[Hannah]

The birding era. Yes.

[Tina]

Somebody asked me today. She's like, oh, have you heard of this app? What is it called? I go, merlin. I go, of course. Of course I've heard of Merlin. I go, did I turn you onto it? She's like, no, I don't think so.

[Hannah]

Well, you are such an evangelist for that app, and you definitely got me into it. Dustin doesn't get into really anything. Like, he is a hard sell on pretty much anything and everything in life. And so it. But it cracks me up. And it's just so endearing because I'll peek out the door sometimes and I'll just see him on our porch doing this with his phone up in the air.

[Tina]

Yes.

[Hannah]

And it's so sweet and so good. John mentioned in our group chat that we, the three of us have in Slack, he mentioned that there was a massive migration that happened recently. And it's funny because like the day or two before he had mentioned that I noticed a new bird call in the morning. And it's funny because when you start paying attention to it, like you recognize them.

[Tina]

And I'm like, yes, you're like that now.

[Hannah]

I was like, who is. Who is that? And sure enough, it was this cat bird that they have such a unique call and then they have one of the calls that they make sounds like a cat.

[Tina]

It's really.

[Hannah]

Wow. It sounds like. Like a meow. But anyway, yeah, it really does sounds just like that.

[Tina]

We were walking through the forest because we were trying to bird and all of a sudden we hear meow. And I'm like, is that a cat? And it literally is a bird. I'm like, john, what is this? What is this? And we pull it up and it's a cat bird. I'm like, the people that name these deserv raised because yeah, that's a cat bird. That is exactly what that is. You're right.

[Hannah]

That is exactly what that is. So, yeah, just really fun. We've found a couple of new birds since that migration was announced and known about. So that's been really fun.

[Tina]

We're heading down state Illinois. It's not that far, but we're heading down and to Charleston. It's like two and a half hours away from where we are. And I'm like, one of my first thoughts was, oh, maybe there'll be new birds down there. Like, that's how deep into it I am.

[Hannah]

It's fun.

[Tina]

I know. I'll keep you posted.

[Hannah]

Yes, please.

[Tina]

Bird talk, et cetera. Keep me tuned in what we're turning into. I in addition to the Merling app, I will tell you what I've been loving lately. And actually it is from elf and I think I brought them before. But specifically it is the ELF Holy hydration line. And specifically the two products that I love is what I'm holding. It's a hydration hydrating coconut mist and their makeup melting cleansing balm. So let me explain what these Are. I mean, obviously it's right there in the title, but this one I was finding. Middle of the day, my skin gets real dry, you know, and I'm like, you know, I need something to refresh myself and maybe it's like mentally, but I just love this thing and.

[Hannah]

Oh, I love the visual.

[Tina]

Great visual. And I'm sure that's going to be the thumbnail that this thing picks for us. But it smells so good and it's a coconut mist, so it really smells like you're at the beach. But I have really sensitive skin and it does not irritate me at all. It doesn't burn. It doesn't do anything adverse to my skin. It's got vitamin E in it and it says it's for dry, oily or combination skin. And it's got coconut, vitamin E and beta Betaine. Don't know what that is, but you know what I mean.

[Hannah]

It will know.

[Tina]

Those who know will know. What I like about it is that you can use this in a couple of ways. You can use this before you put makeup on. You can use this throughout the day. And it just kind of like makes me feel nice. So highly recommend this. And it's like $8. It's not expensive. It's a makeup setting spray, too. That's sort of what I use it for. And it makes you extra glowy. And then the other thing I really like from this line is their hydration makeup melting balm. So if you ever wear, if you're a person that wears mascara, it's so gross to take off. I don't prefer it. And the only way that I like to do it because I don't like it under my eyes. You know what I mean? Like a raccoon eye. It makes me nuts. This stuff is really, really good. It is a balm that just turns into this oil and you rub it on your eyes and then you look really wild for a moment, but then you wipe it off with just a cloth or whatever you're using and everything is gone. It does again, it doesn't burn my eyes. It takes up all your makeup and it's sort of a solid in the pot, so it's really easy to travel with. And then when you put it in your hands, it just, you know, mushes your makeup right off those eyeballs. And I like this because the one that I love, my. My all time favorite was the Clinique Take the Day off balm. And I brought that as at loving lately. That one's more expensive, though. And it's a big tub you get. But I want to say it's like $30. This is 11. And it's not that bad. It lasts me a really long time. ELF is great. They are relatively inexpensive and they're all free. All their products are free from phthalates, parabens, all these other things they've listed. And they are also vegan and cruelty free, which I love. Anyway, wanted to bring these to you, but specifically check out their Holy Hydration line through Elf because I think their stuff is good.

[Hannah]

I am so. Well, it's fun that you brought this because I'm not bringing a similar product in that it's makeup. But my loving lately is also a mist. And it is this Frenchie linen body and hair mist. And I've really been liking this product in general. The Frenchie line, it was created by Ashley Tisdale, High School Musical lovers. If you know, you know. But it's also a very, I think, clean brand as well. I know you mentioned that about Elf, and she uses Mood Science in her products and. Yes. So, okay, I've been using a lot of the different products, but this linen and body and hair mist, I this is my second one that I've gone through in the last couple of months. And for those watching, I you can see how much I've used a bit already. And for those listening, I've already gone through like a third, almost a half of this mist spray. So I use it for all three. I put it on my hair after a shower. I also put it on our linens like almost every day because I'm obsessed with how it smells. And I also just put it on first thing in the morning and throughout the day when I need a mood boost. The scent that I personally am the most in love with is the Bergamot cedar. Now, this is not a perfume, so this is not going to last all day. This is definitely something that is only going to last for a few hours. But it's just something that I like to have on me when I need a little bit of a mood boost. I was also going to mention I recently got Frenchies magnesium stick. And the scent that I got for this one is the salty one. And this one, it just feels really good on your skin. I'm not 100% that it fully calms me before bed, but I am very fragrance sensitive and I do like putting this on before bed because just that smell alone just makes me feel happy and calm before bed. Maybe that's the mood science behind it. I don't know.

[Tina]

There you go. I was wondering what they meant by mood science. I'm like, is it like a mood ring? It changes scents.

[Hannah]

Well, the scents were very light and mild and pretty earthy, I would say the two that I have are. But I also have the magnesium stick in cashmere vanilla, and that pairs really well with the loving lately that I brought, I think a couple of episodes ago, the EOS body lotion in cashmere vanilla.

[Tina]

That's what I got on right now.

[Hannah]

Oh, it's such a nice evening routine, especially if you shower at night putting on that magnesium stick in cashmere vanilla and then lotioning with the cashmere vanilla EOS body lotion. That pairing is great. But yeah. So my loving lately is kind of a combo, but mostly this Frenchie line by Ashley Tisdale. And the two products that I've been loving the most from that line is the bergamot and cedar hair body and linen mist and the magnesium stick.

[Tina]

I love that we both went with lines from specific brands. Like, that's really awesome.

[Hannah]

You brought, like a couple products and I brought a couple products.

[Tina]

Yeah, listen to us go. We're in sync. Speaking of, we're also going to share our latest read, if that's okay with you all. Because our latest read is the Staircase in the woods by Chuck Wendig. Yay. Too. I love this. I feel like this book goes with our vibes right now with what we're wearing. Very well. I have a Nirvana T shirt on. Hannah's wearing a skull and crossbones cardigan. No crossbones. But this book is horror. And this is not your first Chuck Wendig book, right? You read one of his others.

[Hannah]

I read the Book of Accidents and then I tried the Wanderers. And I didn't officially dnf, but I did set it down.

[Tina]

That's right.

[Hannah]

But it's one that I do want to come back to.

[Tina]

Oh, I love the Wanderers, one of my all time faves. So I've read both of those or Wanderers and then the Book of Accidents as well. But of course, this is why we picked this for our community read, because we were both like, yeah, I want to read this. And also our patrons were sort of loosely. We were hearing from some of them that they were interested in horror and, like, were like, maybe I'll get more into it. So we pick a horror novel now and again. This one is about a group of friends who are bonded by an oath to protect one another no matter what. Then on a camping trip in the middle of the forest. They find something. They find a mysterious staircase to nowhere. One friend walks up and never comes back down. And then the staircase disappears. And then 20 years later, the staircase has reappeared. And now the group returns to find the lost boy and. And to discover what lies beyond the staircase in the woods. That's all you're getting. That's it. It's a pretty modest synopsis, but it really is all you need because that's essentially what this book is about. And you're following these five friends. Well, these friends the entire time. How did you like this book?

[Hannah]

Well, in short, this was definitely a five plus star for me.

[Tina]

Loved.

[Hannah]

I was pretty obsessed with it. And I think that part of why I enjoyed it so much is because of the brief synopsis that you get because you don't wholly know what you're getting into when you go into it. And so you really go on this narrative journey with the plot and these characters. And I enjoyed kind of the surprises and figuring out along the way, like, what is this book trying to say to me through these plot devices? And horror can get really creative. And I really enjoyed where he took it. What did you think?

[Tina]

Same. I really liked this book and I'm not surprised. I had a feeling I would because it's one of those books that are in my wheelhouse. The friends do something bad when they're younger, come back as adults for a reckoning. Like he literally uses the word reckoning in this book and I'm like, yeah, talk to me. This is the book that I want. I loved it. Wanderers is still my number one five plus star favorite. But I sort of feel like that's favorite.

[Hannah]

My.

[Tina]

That's how it goes sometimes when you fall in love with an author, their first one is the one that's like the one you know.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Tina]

So it's going to be hard to beat that. But I still really enjoyed this. What I like is that you are getting a horror story. It is scary, but it's also, it eases you in. It's accessible.

[Hannah]

It does.

[Tina]

Sometimes horror is weird from the jump and I'm like, I don't know where I'm in. I don't know where I'm landing. What am I expecting in this one? It's careful, I feel, you know, you're getting the setup. You're coming to know these characters. You come to really understand who they were when they were younger and how that plays into who they are now as adults. I personally love the characters. I'm gathering that some people will find them to Be unlikable. I didn't dislike them at all. I'm like, for me, it read very real. I have friends that I've known since I was five. You know, probably not. I have friends that I've known since I was super young.

[Hannah]

And.

[Tina]

And I find that when we're together, you almost revert back to how you were. Right. You kind of, like, have those inside jokes and all these other things. And so it worked for me when they were adults. Like, their friendship sort of made sense to me. And I really enjoyed the characters.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I found the characters really likable, too. There was also a character with ocd, and I felt that representation was really good, specifically with intrusive thoughts and compulsive behavior that I feel like a lot of us don't even think of as. As compulsive behavior that I think people across a wide spectrum of identities deal with, even with anxiety and things like that. And I thought that that was demonstrated really well. I also really like what you said about this book, easing you into the horror elements, because it definitely does that. You get a really good foundation of who these characters are in a contemporary setting before you get jumped into the horror of it all. And the first time that happens, it kind of is a jump scare. You're like, oh, I forgot that this was horror. Okay, here we go.

[Tina]

Yeah, exactly.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I enjoyed that.

[Tina]

No, and you're right. I couldn't put my finger on why it was that. It was so easy to read, but, like, it's not one that took me a bunch of time to get into it all. It even said, like, in here, one of my favorite. I love that. This is almost tongue in cheek. And he's such a smart writer. He at one point goes like, don't go into the woods, essentially. And, like, that's what this whole book is. It's a book that demonstrates why you shouldn't go into the woods by yourself. Yourself, especially at night. And this also has horror. It's a horror trope that I really, really like. And I'm not going to say what it is because, like, that's part of the fun. There's a couple elements here that I thought were really fun reveals. And again, we don't really want to get into it, but at one point, I loosely spoiled Hannah because I was maybe, I don't know, 20 pages ahead. And I said, I like this element a lot. And you're like, is there that. Is there, that element to it? I was like, never mind. Forget I said it.

[Hannah]

And then, like, Two chapters later I got to it wasn't really a spo, but it was an aspect of the book I hadn't gotten to yet. So. But this book is very self aware. The author is self aware and you'll see that play out in different ways as he tells you this story.

[Tina]

Yeah, and it was so hard to read in sections. Really, really, really painful. And that's the point. That's good writing. I mean that is the point of what is going on here. The only critique, if I were to come up with one, is that I would was jarred by how quick it ended. I was thinking there would be something else or something different. And so that's not a bad thing. It just was something different than I was expecting to the point where I was like, let me rewind my audiobook because was I not paying it? Was it running when I was doing something else? And no, it just kind of. You get this thing and you're not. If you're not paying attention, you could easily miss it. I also wanted to call out the audiobook narrator. One of them, Exe Sands, was the female audiobook narrator. And I thought she did such a good job. I freaking love her. And I kind of forgot how much I love her voice until I was listening to this book. Overall, highly recommend from both of us. I We have not had our patrons chat yet, so as we're recording this, it's later today. So I'm very interested to see what folks think. But I'm glad that everyone who's going to join us went on this horror journey with us. Do you have anything else to add?

[Hannah]

I will say that I think that I just wanted to piggyback off of what you said with the audio. I felt like the audiobook, and again without spoiling anything, also had some fun artistic elements in terms of reveals and plot twists that I noticed. So if you enjoy that in an audiobook, I highly recommend it overall. But yeah, just an amazing book. I'm also excited to discuss with our patrons tonight.

[Tina]

Yeah, and it's interesting you say that because I have to think about it. I don't know that I caught it. So I'm going to ask you offline what specifically you mean. I kind of did notice it, but I think I thought it was the narrator like and just their type of narration style and they were my least favorite for a while in comparison especially to Exy Sands. So this makes a lot of sense. But yeah, overall, really good book.

[Hannah]

Agreed. And that was the Staircase in the woods by Chuck Wendig.

[Tina]

Yes, good old Chuck Wendig, one of my faves. And I will continue to read everything he puts out.

[Hannah]

Same. I think Black River Orchard is going to be next for me.

[Tina]

I brought that with me to an apple orchard one time and took photos with it and just didn't read it for no real reason.

[Hannah]

That's a part of the fun.

[Tina]

It is a part of the fun. It traveled with me and I have yet to read it. I'm sure it's back on my TBR shelf somewhere. But for today, we are doing a genre queer episode and I think I pitched this for us and I have to admit that I semi failed the brief. So walk with me as I sort of explain my thoughts on this. Because what I initially meant was I wanted to read a genre book with queer characters in it. And I think a lot of the books that I read that are queer, not all of them, but a lot of them are exploring the coming out process or transition process. And I, I recently read and loved the book woodworking by Emily St. James. And I think of part of what I loved about that is the characters in it aren't necessarily questioning themselves. They already know who they are and it's like them talking and living and do, you know, informing the other people around them. So that was my goal with this, and I thought a good way to achieve this was to look for books that weren't necessarily about discovering their identity, but more so I wanted characters that were in their identity and living it and experiencing their lives and it was obviously a part of them, but not the only thing. And in that sense I did achieve this goal. How did you approach this episode?

[Hannah]

Yeah, I really like that you thought about that, because that wasn't something that I really considered or put a lot of thought into as I was choosing my books. But when I was, when I was considering the questions I was asking myself for book talk for this section of the podcast, it was like, why is it important to have queer representation in fiction? And when I was thinking about that, I was thinking about what you mentioned of yes, it's important to have these stories, I think, maybe even especially for young adult books, of coming out or those kinds of experiences and perspectives. But it's also just so important to see and have these characters represented just living their lives. And I think that that's something moving forward that I do want to be more thoughtful in my choice of books when I'm thinking about reading queer fiction.

[Tina]

No, exactly. That's exactly what my thought was. I'm like, I want to read about these characters living their lives. These. Their stories are interesting. And I really have two excellent books for you today. I'm pretty pumped about them. And I was thinking, though, as I was going, you know, as I was planning my tbr, you know, different genres, and I'm like, okay, I could do a thriller. I could do historical fiction. And then I thought, I know in some spaces that people categorize LGBT as its own genre. Do you have any thoughts on that? It's a leading question. Because I have thoughts.

[Hannah]

I don't think that it is. Yeah, Because I think that a genre is a genre, and I think that I wouldn't even want to call it a trope because I don't want to narrow an identity down to a trope.

[Tina]

I think that that's.

[Hannah]

I think that's icky. You know, Also, I think that what's exciting about LGBTQ books and queer novels is that they can subvert traditional genres and tropes. They can add an assumed element to a novel, and it can create a really creative story from a perspective that you'd never considered. So. But I wouldn't consider it a genre in and of itself. Tell me you said you had thoughts about it. I want to know what you have to say.

[Tina]

Same. Yeah, no, same thing. And, you know, one of our patrons actually pointed this out. She was like, I don't like when they say, oh, it's a queer genre book or what. You know, they put it as its own sort of. Cause it's not a genre. Cause you have queer historical fiction, you have queer romance, you have queer ya, queer memoir, all of that. And those should be in the groups in which they belong. And I feel like it sort of lumps it down into, like, a monolith almost. It sort of makes it too narrow.

[Hannah]

It's othering.

[Tina]

It's othering, Right? Like, why can't it be a part of.

[Hannah]

Why can't it just be historical fiction?

[Tina]

Hello. Right, Exactly. But I do understand maybe, like, a tag or something. I think storygraph does tags for it, if I'm not mistaken, that I like. Because I like to know. I'm like, good. I want to know that going into it. Right. I seek these types of stories out. I was just curious if you had any sort of strong feelings about that. But, yeah, it sounds like you and I are in agreement where it's like, it's not its own genre. Now, the reason I'm saying, I think I failed the brief a little bit because one of mine is contemporary fiction, which technically is a genre, but also it is a book that's set in recent days. And often, sometimes it gets categorized as contemporary fiction in that it has an absence of genre. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not. Right.

[Hannah]

Science fiction.

[Tina]

It's not science fiction. It's not horror. It's not these other things. It's just, you know, it's. It's characters living their lives. And so a piece of me was like, did I fail this? But no, I'm calling it. I didn't. And at the end of the day, who cares? Because these books are really good.

[Hannah]

Yeah, well, I mean, like you said, regardless, we want to hear you talk about them. And it's important to have this representation in books in general.

[Tina]

So, you know, it's Pride Month. We are in June now, which I kind of like. I know, but in my brain, I haven't gotten there yet because we're still in May as we're recording this, and it feels very far away. Earlier, I was doing the intro and I said, and our May bonuses will be blah, blah, blah. And then I'm like, God, it's June.

[Hannah]

I know. That is almost halfway through the year.

[Tina]

I know, it's creepy.

[Hannah]

Let's not linger on that.

[Tina]

Let's not linger on that. And let's get into the books, because.

[Hannah]

Yeah, let's get into it.

[Tina]

A little bit of an existential crisis. I will tell you about my first book. It is A Gentleman's Gentleman by T.J. alexander. And this one is a genre book. This is a historical romance, actually. And I'm, like, delighted in my seat because I'm like, this book was really good. It is a trans Regency romance. And I had a blast reading this book. It is about the notoriously eccentric Lord Christopher Eden, who is a man of unusual make and even more unusual habits. He prefers to live as far away from people as possible, and he would rather the comfortable company of his childhood cook and his aged butler, Plankton, than the swarm of servants and hangers on befitting a man of his station. So he's got this, you know, title, and with that does come this grand home, but should also come a lot of people. But he just has two people that he lives with. But he is getting a little bit older. I mean, he's, like, in his early 20s. But he receives word from his lawyers that according to his late father's will, he must find a wife by the end of the season if he intends to keep his family fortune and the Eden's End estate. He cannot imagine A worse fate because he's not attracted to women and his chance of making a wife happy are slim. And furthermore, if he has any. If his hopes to marry has any chance of succeeding, he has to move to London as soon as possible and acquire some more suitable staff. And so what he needs is called a valet. And I guess it was a thing of the time where it was sort of a, you know, a handmaiden sort of thing, but it was a For men of the house. And he hires James Harding. He is distractingly handsome, but very different from Christopher in that he's very rigid and very traditional. They sort of have this rocky start together, but eventually do strike up a fragile friendship amid the throes of London's season. And the season is when all of these high society society folks go together and there's balls and they're trying. They're basically courting people and there's just a fun time, there's a dance card and all of these things. And under this whole sort of quest to get married is the secret that he's keeping. And he has very. Lord Eden has very few friends that know his secret. And throughout the book, he is sort of slowly coming to terms with the idea that he might need to let more people in. I think this one was fantastic. I love the wit. They. I don't always love when a book is like, oh, it's witty. And I'm like, okay, well, what do you mean? Because sometimes I'm like, I don't know if I believe that, but I think this one was really witty. Now, I don't know how true to the time period the dialogue was. I also don't care. I'm like, what do I care about that? It was close enough, and it was close enough to where you know, there was some modern humor that I enjoyed. There were also some very fun slower burn elements to it and some very like, okay, it's Regency London, right? It's like, oh, I saw his hand without a glove. You know what I mean? Like that type of slow burn.

[Hannah]

Like the Pride and Prejudice hand flags. Yeah.

[Tina]

Yes, exactly. You know, and there's like some funny little situations that they find themselves in. I did the audio for this. I thought it was well narrated and it was emotional. There was some good, good scenes and, you know, some good lessons learned. And I thought this was a really good time. I don't think if you want, like, a fast paced, steamy romance that you'll get that here, but I think it was a really interesting story. I love thinking about what it would have been like to be a trans person during this time period. I love what the author had to say about identity and some of the secrets that other people were keeping. And I really, really loved this. It was a lovely and sweet, sweet story to read and I'm very glad that I read it. This one is A Gentleman's Gentleman by T.J. alexander.

[Hannah]

I love when you bring romance. Look at me. Makes me so happy. Happy.

[Tina]

Fine, I'll read a little more, but only if they're not straight people.

[Hannah]

That's my, you know, your lane and you stick to it.

[Tina]

But I want to read about the straights. But no, this is, this was really good.

[Hannah]

Good. Yeah, it sounds really fun and it sounds like it would be a good comp too if you enjoyed Bridgerton or books like that. But you want something a little deeper that has a different perspective. That, that could be a good book.

[Tina]

That's a great call out. I think it really is Bridgerton esque. Now I don't have much reference point for that, so just know that I've never seen it.

[Hannah]

But, but even with like the season.

[Tina]

The season and the wit and just the people. Oh my God, the backhanded compliments and the funny. Nothing I like more than old timey burn. Like it's just really funn.

[Hannah]

So mean. But like so mean. But they're so masked in decor. Can we get back to insulting each other like that and roasting each other like that?

[Tina]

I would like to work on that personally. Yes, me too.

[Hannah]

Well, I'm really glad that you enjoyed that one. My first book that I am bringing for this is also one that I absolutely loved, but it is in a completely different wheelhouse and that is Rainbow Black by Maggie Thrash. This is a mystery. I would say it's definitely a contemporary mystery. I even questioned if I was going off script a little bit, but I would say that it definitely falls into the mystery category. And finally one that I'm like, okay, I have found my brand. This is about 13 year old Lacey Bond. She lives a peaceful life at her very carefree parents rural daycare in New Hampshire until the Satanic panic of 1990 shatters everything. Her parents are arrested, they're accused of unspeakable crimes. And a brutal murder pushes Lacey to make a devastating decision that will end up haunting her forever. Then you follow her years later, she is now a lawyer. She has a really stable life, a loving relationship and a past that she has most been able to move on from and forget. But a small mistake explodes into a Legal catastrophe, old fears resurface and the hysteria threatens to return. This is a high octane novel about one woman's relentless fight for freedom in the face of mass hysteria and buried secrets. I love a book that makes me google myself. Or not Google myself, but Google but not myself. But a like time in history or a specific subject or something. Not myself. I would like a break from that actually. But I knew that the satanic panic happened, but I didn't know a ton about it. And what a wild and devastating period of history. And in that way, because it's set in the really early 90s, it. It felt nostalgic in ways, but it was also just really ominous and dark. It is narrated and I mean the character in the book as a narrator, not the audiobook narrator, but our main character is a young voice, but a very. This is a very adult book and this can be hit or miss for me, but it didn't feel too juvenile. And it is set in three parts, so only the first part is narrated by her when she is a young. A young woman. And then we get to follow her in different periods of her life. I really enjoyed our main character. She is a queer woman and she also was just existing and living her life. So even though the first part of the book she is younger, there really isn't a lot of the coming out process that is discussed in this novel. Her identity is just really a very clear part of the story. That being said, there are quite a few slurs used in the book. They are used as a way of speaking from the 80s and 90s and it is clearly addressed as harmful. But I think it's important to note that that language was being used at the time, often with the purpose of causing harm. And that is not shied away from in this book, especially when we get to the. Even the courtroom drama parts of it and the way even some of the lawyers spoke about these people and our narrator and our main character. It's just really awful. Although this was a mystery, it almost became a backdrop to the overall story of sisterhood, queerness, coming of age. These are my favorite kinds of stories. I really do fear that this book may become my Roman Empire. I definitely see this as being potentially one of my favorites of the year. It reminded me a lot in parts of on the Savage side by Tiffany McDaniel in its tone. It was really rich in its character study and utilized a really detailed historical setting and mystery element to craft a fully developed story that I fell for from beginning to end. I could also See, this book working for so many types of readers. It is literary but accessible. It has courtroom drama and a fully fleshed out mystery component. I think it will attract people who lived through this period of history in the 80s and 90s and. But also people who want to learn more about this time period. I think it could work for even historical fiction readers who want to expand beyond the typical historical fiction titles and stretch a little while remaining somewhat in their comfort zone. This was an easy five stars from me. And that was Rainbow Black by Maggie Thrash.

[Tina]

You are just having a great reading series.

[Hannah]

I know. And I don't like, give out five stars. Really?

[Tina]

You're not like a overly generous rater. So when I hear you say a five star, I'm like, like, I love this.

[Hannah]

So good. I think I'm starting to really be intentional about the kinds of books that I'm picking up and I think that is proving to be helpful.

[Tina]

What's the title again?

[Hannah]

Rainbow Black. It looks like this.

[Tina]

Oh, thank you.

[Hannah]

You're welcome.

[Tina]

I've never heard this book before.

[Hannah]

It does not have that many ratings. I want to say it has under.

[Tina]

Under 5,000.

[Hannah]

Under 5,000? For sure. I was gonna say under three, but I don't think it's under three. Under 5,000 ratings. Ratings. But I don't think it has. I don't know if it has a terribly great rating on Goodreads or Storygraph 3.37. Okay. No, it does. It has a pretty high rating.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

And the COVID is an interesting choice. I don't even know if I like it or dislike it. It's just plain black with white text. And then it has this pink, like neon pink goat kind of right in the center, which is. I understand, because the book's about the Satanic panic, but goat is not used as a symbol really throughout. Throughout the book. Obviously. You know, we know in a lot of cultural contexts the goat is demonic or devilish, et cetera, but that's not really brought up in the book a whole lot. So I don't really know why they chose that for the COVID but.

[Tina]

Well, I like that it's funny you have a Satanic Panic book because I read one not too long ago that was loosely Satanic Panic esque. So interesting that we have that one was. That one was this one. We are watching. Alison Galen loosely has a sort of Satanic panic vibe. Boy, what a weird period of. Sorry. I know that sounds unkind, but it was very odd.

[Hannah]

Well, kind of reminiscent of the witch trials.

[Tina]

True.

[Hannah]

I mean, just these allegations and the amount of psychological abuse that happened to children also during this time. What a. What a tragedy.

[Tina]

No, I agree. Anyway, you want to keep going, moving on? Let's talk about this one now. My next book is Disappoint Me by Nicola Dinan. And I love this book. Look at my tabs. Hannah, are you proud?

[Hannah]

I am. Looks gorgeous.

[Tina]

I'm proud of me because my goal was to read more in print and to tab. And this one, gosh, I really ate up. I really, really did. It is about a woman who's 30 and sort of has this lifetime of dysphoria and irritating exes rattling around in her head. Who among us doesn't? Now, she is early in her 30s and I'll get into that in a bit here, but Max is very much plagued by a deep dissatisfaction. Shouldn't these be the best years of her life? Why doesn't it feel that way? And the book kicks off at a party on New Year's Eve and Max ends up, up falling down the stairs and has to go to hospital. And she's there and realizes like really the only person that she can count on is her best friend. And it sort of kickstarts her desire to pursue what she's calling good old fashioned heteronormativity. And so she goes on some dates and finds this man called Vincent. And Vincent is a lawyer, he has Chinese parents. And Max really hits it off with him. But Vincent is also carrying baggage of his own. When the fallout of a decades old entanglement resurfaces, Max must decide what forgiveness really means. Can we be more than our worst mistakes? And is it possible to make peace with the past? This book is fabulous. It is fantastic. It's really this deep exploration of early 30s time in your life. And I'm using that term loosely. I think, Hannah, your early 30s are probably different from what is being described in this book.

[Hannah]

But.

[Tina]

But it perfectly made sense to me that sort of you're out of the chaos of your 20s and you're thinking about how do I want to approach my life? Because you're making these huge choices that have a huge effect on your life. Are you going to have a partner? Who is your partner going to be? Are you going to have children? All of those questions kind of take place around the same time for a lot of people. And this character is really grappling with how does she want to conform as a woman? Does she want to conform? And particularly as a trans woman? And this is not necessarily a story of identity, but more so of how does she want to live? Does she want to be in this heteronormative relationship? And if she does, does that make her less queer? And I loved this. It also is told from Vincent's perspective, but not Vincent from present day. You're getting to know Vincent from 10 years ago when he is on a study abroad, or what do you call that, on a gap year. He's traveling to Thailand with his best friend Fred, who he's still friends with in present day. And something happens when they're in Thailand that has ramifications for what's going on in today's relationship. And so you're getting to know Vincent, too, very intimately, as well as Max. And this is a book that. Where not a ton goes on, but, like, a lot goes on. It's really beautifully written. I kept tabbing, like you could see, you know, as I'm holding this up, you can see there's a lot of tabs in this one. And if you're a Sex and the City fan, this author used this scene to describe something so perfectly. So if you watch Sex in the City, if you remember, it's this iconic scene, one of the most iconic scenes of the series, where Kristen Johnson, who is a guest star, is this party girl in New York City. And she's sort of like calling everybody out in this really embarrassing way. She's not typical party girl. Age is a little bit older. She's got a cig in her hand and she's yelling at everybody like, you guys used to be fun. And then she falls out the window to her death. And that's. This is a very old show, but that's the metaphor that she's using. And Max's biggest fear is. I know Max's biggest fear is staying too long at the party and being the one that's like, you know, the lights are up and everyone's kind of looking around like, oh, God, it's closing time. Where am I? Metaphorically, right? That's where she feels like she's at in her life. Like, she doesn't want to be partying. She's kind of of playing around with being sober. And I just love that the author wrote about that scene in this book because it just captured a picture. It painted a picture in my brain perfectly. And this book is, if you want a quick pitch of it, an exploration of heteronormativity through the eyes of a trans woman. And it is about queer identity. But that's not all it's about. Max is not questioning herself and her being a trans woman is a part of who she is and I do really appreciate that, that the author did bring up a lot of the questions and the embarrassments and the microaggressions that people have. And maybe they're well meaning, but they still can be harmful and they still are things that need to be discussed, especially if you're in this type of partnership. I love this book. I thought it was really sharp. It resonated with me and I think it would resonate with a lot of readers. Really happy I read it. This is a sophomore book. I want to read her debut now, which is what called Bellies, I think. And yeah, now I need to go back and read that because this one was excellent. This is Disappoint Me by Nicola Dinan.

[Hannah]

I am so happy that we're bringing these books that we love. Yes, because my next one is also one that I really, really love. And this is Girl Serpent Thorn by Melissa Basherdust so this is a young adult standalone fantasy. It is based on Persian folklore about a princess who is cursed to be poisonous to the touch. As the day of her twin brother's wedding approaches, Soraya, our main character, is having to decide if she's willing to step outside of the shadows for the first time. In the dungeons below the castle, there is a demon who holds knowledge that Soraya wants, which is the answer to her freedom. And then above we have a young man who isn't afraid of her, whose eyes linger not with fear, but with an understanding of who she is. Beneath her cursed fate. Soraya thought that she knew her place in the world, but when her choices lead to consequences she never imagined, she starts to question who she is and who she is becoming human or demon, princess or monster. I finished this book while sitting on my couch with my family and I feel for my children and husband who had to hear me gasp out loud and talk aggressively to myself as I read the last 75 pages. It was just so fun and engaging and had so many surprises. It was just such a wonderfully paced and exciting book that also offered great conversational points and deep themes on family and belonging and identity. And in fantasy standalones I find that that the pacing and plot structure are challenging to perfect. I found the pacing and story structure in this one to be pretty flawless in my opinion. I didn't really feel like there were any gaps in the pacing. We get a really quick demonstration of the magic and the world in the beginning and from there a very complex and unexpected story unfolds in excellence. In my Opinion. I also find that it can be a feat to create three dimensional character arcs and relationships in a fantasy world. Especially especially when you only have 300 pages to forge both a complex and fantastical universe. A complex and fantastical universe and believable characters. And also this has a romance and a love triangle at that. So a fleshed out relationship development. I thought the love triangle in this one was great, but I do love a love triangle and, and I think that this book pulls everything off. It has a 3.65 rating on Goodreads and from some of the reviews that I've seen, this seems to be because they didn't love the romance and people wanted more of the Sapphic romance. I do think that there was tension, but I agree that maybe one qualm is that the relationships could have been a little bit more high stakes and had more dialogue or tension in that way. However, if you are looking for an open door romantasy, you probably should look in the adult section of the bookstore instead of young adult. So I will add that caveat. That said, if you do like young adult fantasy or need something adventurous and fun but with depth, put this one on your tbr. That is Girl Serpent Thorn by Melissa Bashardoust.

[Tina]

I love the sound of this. I'm glad that you read it. And I also love that when you said the title I'm like, like, oh my God, another under the radar pick. And I looked it up and it's got 40,000 reviews on Goodreads, so.

[Hannah]

I know, but it's a little bit older so we're hearing about it a ton right now. Yes, but I don't feel like when it came out I was seeing a ton about it either. So I don't know, maybe we were just in the wrong circles to know about that.

[Tina]

40,000 fear very well could be because that is something that sounded new to me. But I'm glad that it worked out for you and I love what you said I. About, you know, it's a YA book, so.

[Hannah]

Yeah, well, and this is a good example too where she is exploring her identity a little bit. And you know earlier when we mentioned we love queer stories where they're just existing. There is a time and a place for those exploration of identities. It's all really important and I'm glad that we had a good blend that we brought today of, of both.

[Tina]

Yes, I agree. And I, I'm. I'm glad that we brought books that we love. Like there was not a. I know. Amongst us, not really amiss, not Really a miss. Now I'm gonna bring my shelf edition, and this is one I don't really have a good tie in, so we'll just go for it. Some one of the publishers sent me the blurb for this and I was like, yes, I accept. Yes, it is the Salvage by Anbara Salaam. And this one is set in 1962. A woman is a trailblazing marine archaeologist and who has traveled to Carron Roche, a small island off the east coast of Scotland, because there's an Arctic shipwreck containing the remains of a famous Victorian explorer that has been towed back to the island at the behest of his wealthy descendants. And Marta's job is to revive valuable artifacts from the vessel deep beneath the freezing Scottish waters. But on her first dive, Marta becomes convinced she's seen a freaking ghost amongst the wreckage. And when Marta discovers objects from the vessel have inexplicably disappeared, she must work to uncover their whereabouts before her boss, who's also her ex husband, discovers their absence. As a series of unsettling and strange occurrences begin to unfold, Marta's work trip turns into a long winter as the worst snowstorms of the century sweep in and trap the islanders and their ghost in an icy wilderness. This sounds perfect for me. You got ghosts, you got a winter storm, you got spooky under the water stuff. And it's set in Scotland. I am sold. This one comes out on October 7th, so you have some time to get this on your radar. This was the Salvage by Anbara Salaam.

[Hannah]

I like that title, the Salvage.

[Tina]

It's kind of hard to say. Salvage. Maybe I'm like over doing it.

[Hannah]

Okay. My shelf edition is this Kind of Trouble by Tochi Ezzi. And this one comes out on August 5th and it sounds really good. I just got this on NetGalley today and I was so excited when I saw it pop up. This book is set in 1960s Legos. Newly independent and full of promise, we have headstrong Margaret, and she meets Benjamin, a British man searching for his Nigerian roots. Despite her hesitation, their connection is instant and they fall in love. Their conversations reveal a shared past that is a little more tangled and complicated than they imagined. But Margaret's declining mental health and long buried events from a distant village begin to pull them apart. By 2005, Margaret lives in a gated Lagos community and Benjamin is alone. And Atlanta. He's facing health issues with no one to call. When their grandson starts showing signs of the same struggles that Margaret once faced. The two are forced to reunite and confront the secrets they left behind. This is a powerful debut about forbidden love, family legacy, and the search for healing in a changing world. And that is this Kind of Trouble by Toshi Ezzy.

[Tina]

That sounds really good. That was on my long, long list for my summer banana, so definitely have that on my ranch radar.

[Hannah]

Yeah. I like books that explore kind of the generational impact of mental health and that kind of trauma. So it would have gone well. Yeah. The rest of our dark I know.

[Tina]

Not at all summary summer.

[Hannah]

Not at all summary books. But hey, just keeping it on up. Keeping it the books that continue to bring.

[Tina]

That's right. All right, well, that's it for today. We thank you for spending a part of your day with us. When you Links to all the books mentioned can be found in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can help us by following wherever you listen and by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us get our show out to new listeners and grows our audience. And don't forget, if you'd like access to exclusive bonus content and community, you can join us for $5 a month on patreon.com booktalk Etc.

[Hannah]

If you'd like to connect with us, you can email us at booktalk etcgmail.com. you can also connect with us both @booktok.etc. on Instagram and YouTube. You can find Tina, TBR etc and Hannahandpickedbooks. Talk to you next week. And in the meantime, remember, everything's better with book.

[Tina]

Hey Hannah.

[Hannah]

Hi. Sorry, we can't even do an intro right.

[Tina]

Hi.

[Hannah]

Okay.